MBB: NESCAC

[SpringSt7]

How would the NESCAC police intraconference transfers? The students are not on scholarship, they receive no sort of benefits from the school as athletes. Non athletes transfer all the time, I don't see how this would be much different.

Re: LaFrance in particular, this is very much "make your bed, lay in your bed" as far as Conn should be concerned. You took a kid who went to St. Thomas More for prep school, a national power that is basketball basketball basketball, that transferred from Eckerd College, a middle of the road D2 school in Florida. I don't know the kid from a hole in the wall so I don't want this to come across any slight on his character but it should've been pretty obvious academics are not driving the ship here. You should've known that him transferring again was always a possibility.

Maybe Sweeney knew that and was willing to live with it and try to replace him again, if that's the case then good for him, it's definitely against the grain in the NESCAC but if the admin will play ball then go for it, more power to them. But this should've surprised nobody

[SpringSt7]

Will Davies (NE10 player of the year) from Saint Anselm is rumored to be transferring to Vermont ($100K+) and will have two years of eligibility remaining. He would have had D1 interest regardless of the upcoming transition from D2 to D3. I'm sure a handful of other players on the roster will be on the move too - with some potentially making moves to D3 schools in New England. 

Their whole rotation is already transferring to D1 schools this offseason and I don't think the transition down will affect anyone on the current roster. The entire staff will probably leave too. This will have as much effect on the NE D3 scene as Hartford did IMO

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Will Davies (NE10 player of the year) from Saint Anselm is rumored to be transferring to Vermont ($100K+) and will have two years of eligibility remaining. He would have had D1 interest regardless of the upcoming transition from D2 to D3. I'm sure a handful of other players on the roster will be on the move too - with some potentially making moves to D3 schools in New England. 

Their whole rotation is already transferring to D1 schools this offseason and I don't think the transition down will affect anyone on the current roster. The entire staff will probably leave too. This will have as much effect on the NE D3 scene as Hartford did IMO

I'm curious why you think the staff will leave.  I doubt the pay scale will be much different in d3 than it was in d2, especially if they aim to be on par with top schools in New England.  I'm not saying they won't look elsewhere, but the lead assistant came from Trinity and graduated from Springfield and the other assistant is a St. A alum and definitely in the second half of his career.  What they're paying the HC might be on the higher end of d3 salaries, but I doubt it's outrageous.

They might all leave, but there's also plenty of reason to stay.

[SpringSt7]

What schools have dropped down a level and have shown any sort of ambition? And what will make St. Anselm's a good D3 program?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

What schools have dropped down a level and have shown any sort of ambition? And what will make St. Anselm's a good D3 program?

It's hard during the transition time when there isn't a post-season to play for, but St. A's AD is Phil Rowe, who's got lots of experience at the D3 level and they're joining a conference that's pretty serious about athletics.  I think they'll try to compete - its whether or not the staff wants to wait through the non-eligible period or not.  Like I said, I could see it either way.

Not to mention, they've been trying to do this for a decade or more.  They want to be a d3 program.  I think they'll take it seriously.

[nescac1]

I really though Hartford would be stronger in D3 with Aaron Toomey as coach, playing in a mid-sized city with elite facilities for D3 and seemingly giving Toomey very wide latitude to recruit nationally and utilize the portal year after year.  But what Hartford seems to have turned into is a way-station for many of its guys to play for a year, elevate their profile, and then move on in the portal.  Like SpringSt7 alluded to before, live by the portal, die by the portal.  I still think that at some point Hartford is going to field a very competitive team with the type of talent they are able to bring in, but sustaining that will likely prove difficult. 

Springfield is probably the best example I can think of for a school that went from D2 to D3 with immediate success, but that was like 30 years ago. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I really though Hartford would be stronger in D3 with Aaron Toomey as coach, playing in a mid-sized city with elite facilities for D3 and seemingly giving Toomey very wide latitude to recruit nationally and utilize the portal year after year.  But what Hartford seems to have turned into is a way-station for many of its guys to play for a year, elevate their profile, and then move on in the portal.  Like SpringSt7 alluded to before, live by the portal, die by the portal.  I still think that at some point Hartford is going to field a very competitive team with the type of talent they are able to bring in, but sustaining that will likely prove difficult. 

Springfield is probably the best example I can think of for a school that went from D2 to D3 with immediate success, but that was like 30 years ago. 

That was the impression I got from Aaron in November.  They'd been recruiting guys to give them a showcase, hoping a few would stay.  A very few did.  Now, with the promise of post-season play, they're hoping to get four year guys in.  That's just very tough with the portal culture.  If you recruit the guys you need to win, they're also the guys most likely to get poached.  If he can keep a few around, he'll do fine.  They're definitely getting better year over year, it just takes some time to build a program.

[SpringSt7]

The main argument for Coach Santos staying is that he is an alum and that could be very valuable/important to him. But he has spent his entire career in D1/D2 and usually that doesn't scream D3 lifer or guy who really wants to be there. Ryan you are right that if there is still a commitment to athletics then it is a different story but I am just skeptical about the whole thing.

It will be interesting to see what kind of kids they attract/recruit. There isn't really a like for like contemporary in the northern part of New England.

[D3BBALL]

How would the NESCAC police intraconference transfers? The students are not on scholarship, they receive no sort of benefits from the school as athletes. Non athletes transfer all the time, I don't see how this would be much different.

Re: LaFrance in particular, this is very much "make your bed, lay in your bed" as far as Conn should be concerned. You took a kid who went to St. Thomas More for prep school, a national power that is basketball basketball basketball, that transferred from Eckerd College, a middle of the road D2 school in Florida. I don't know the kid from a hole in the wall so I don't want this to come across any slight on his character but it should've been pretty obvious academics are not driving the ship here. You should've known that him transferring again was always a possibility.

Maybe Sweeney knew that and was willing to live with it and try to replace him again, if that's the case then good for him, it's definitely against the grain in the NESCAC but if the admin will play ball then go for it, more power to them. But this should've surprised nobody

On NESCAC transfers, there is no policy, but I also thought there was an unwritten rule between the schools at least sports wise, so it doesn't happen often.

You are 100% right on Lafrance. On Conn you are spot on as well and will be interesting to see if other NESCAC schools follow. It unfortunately the way it is.

And everything could get worse/better when the NCAA comes out with whether or not they are going to allow 5th years. Just look at the senior talent from across the NESCAC and where they could go. The top senior talent in the NESCAC, I would guess is better than 90% of the players on NESCAC1 list, and then you have all the other elite senior talent in D3 from all the other conferences.

[D3BBALL]

What schools have dropped down a level and have shown any sort of ambition? And what will make St. Anselm's a good D3 program?

It's hard during the transition time when there isn't a post-season to play for, but St. A's AD is Phil Rowe, who's got lots of experience at the D3 level and they're joining a conference that's pretty serious about athletics.  I think they'll try to compete - its whether or not the staff wants to wait through the non-eligible period or not.  Like I said, I could see it either way.

Not to mention, they've been trying to do this for a decade or more.  They want to be a d3 program.  I think they'll take it seriously.

I really though Hartford would be stronger in D3 with Aaron Toomey as coach, playing in a mid-sized city with elite facilities for D3 and seemingly giving Toomey very wide latitude to recruit nationally and utilize the portal year after year.  But what Hartford seems to have turned into is a way-station for many of its guys to play for a year, elevate their profile, and then move on in the portal.  Like SpringSt7 alluded to before, live by the portal, die by the portal.  I still think that at some point Hartford is going to field a very competitive team with the type of talent they are able to bring in, but sustaining that will likely prove difficult. 

Springfield is probably the best example I can think of for a school that went from D2 to D3 with immediate success, but that was like 30 years ago. 

That was the impression I got from Aaron in November.  They'd been recruiting guys to give them a showcase, hoping a few would stay.  A very few did.  Now, with the promise of post-season play, they're hoping to get four year guys in.  That's just very tough with the portal culture.  If you recruit the guys you need to win, they're also the guys most likely to get poached.  If he can keep a few around, he'll do fine.  They're definitely getting better year over year, it just takes some time to build a program.

It doesn't help Harford that they have to compete against Wesleyan and Trinity for players in the area, as well as Hartford is not a great academic school. Toomey, I think, is a very good coach, but if he is relying on what you are saying, it is not going to work consistently. Guessing it hasn't been easy for him to get elite players outside of New England. I don't think it will work consistently for a school like Hartford or many schools in D3. It worked for Chicago this year, but they had 2 elite players, it worked well for NYU last year and this year they were good as well, but these are elite academic D3 schools. I just don't see it working for most of D3 like it does for D1 schools, it is just too different. And most importantly most of these players over rate how good they are.

[nescac1]

There have been a fair number of NESCAC-to-NESCAC transfers in soccer over the past decade, I can't imagine that there would be a policy permitting it in some sports but not in others.  It is odd that this seems to happen fairly regularly in soccer, but not in other sports (or at least, not in hoops). 

[D3BBALL]

What schools have dropped down a level and have shown any sort of ambition? And what will make St. Anselm's a good D3 program?

It's hard during the transition time when there isn't a post-season to play for, but St. A's AD is Phil Rowe, who's got lots of experience at the D3 level and they're joining a conference that's pretty serious about athletics.  I think they'll try to compete - its whether or not the staff wants to wait through the non-eligible period or not.  Like I said, I could see it either way.

Not to mention, they've been trying to do this for a decade or more.  They want to be a d3 program.  I think they'll take it seriously.

Ryan  what is the rule when moving from D2 to D3 in terms of how quickly they can play in postseason conference play and NCAA postseason play?

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

What schools have dropped down a level and have shown any sort of ambition? And what will make St. Anselm's a good D3 program?

It's hard during the transition time when there isn't a post-season to play for, but St. A's AD is Phil Rowe, who's got lots of experience at the D3 level and they're joining a conference that's pretty serious about athletics.  I think they'll try to compete - its whether or not the staff wants to wait through the non-eligible period or not.  Like I said, I could see it either way.

Not to mention, they've been trying to do this for a decade or more.  They want to be a d3 program.  I think they'll take it seriously.

Scott what is the rule when moving from D2 to D3 in terms of how quickly they can play in postseason conference play and NCAA postseason play?

It's the same as any team coming in.  I think they're eligible in 29-30.  I believe there's a waiver available for reclassifying members that puts it at a three year process, if all goes well.

[D3BBALL]

There have been a fair number of NESCAC-to-NESCAC transfers in soccer over the past decade, I can't imagine that there would be a policy permitting it in some sports but not in others.  It is odd that this seems to happen fairly regularly in soccer, but not in other sports (or at least, not in hoops). 

Wonder if there is an unwritten rule for some sports?

[D3BBALL]

What schools have dropped down a level and have shown any sort of ambition? And what will make St. Anselm's a good D3 program?

It's hard during the transition time when there isn't a post-season to play for, but St. A's AD is Phil Rowe, who's got lots of experience at the D3 level and they're joining a conference that's pretty serious about athletics.  I think they'll try to compete - its whether or not the staff wants to wait through the non-eligible period or not.  Like I said, I could see it either way.

Not to mention, they've been trying to do this for a decade or more.  They want to be a d3 program.  I think they'll take it seriously.

Ryan what is the rule when moving from D2 to D3 in terms of how quickly they can play in postseason conference play and NCAA postseason play?

It's the same as any team coming in.  I think they're eligible in 29-30.  I believe there's a waiver available for reclassifying members that puts it at a three year process, if all goes well.

I understand the wait for going up, but don't see why they just don't let them play right away if you are going down.

In the end with all the player movement with the portal etc, for any team moving up or down, just let them play postseason right away.