MBB: NESCAC

[nescac1]

Wow, surprised re Civello.  Definitely would be a blow but of course easier to make that call when the coach who recruited you is fired.  Will he interesting to see what sort of offers he gets - he easily has D1 size and skills at the 5, but not the typical D1 athleticism.  But I assume he has reason to believe there will be Patriot / Ivy type interest if he's putting his name out there.

[ccd494]

NPI is not the NESCAC Protection Index. This is part of the deal if you're getting a lot of teams in under the current system.

That's funny, like that.

When you say current system are you talking the new NPI sytems?

Either way as I said in another post, if it was the top 3 UAA teams all in the same bracket, I would say the same thing. I not complaining because it is NESCAC, it just a bad way to feature all the best teams in the country. UAA could have 4 teams in the final 4, all top 25 teams. NESCAC with 3 top 10 teams in NPI can only get 1 of those 3 to the final 4.

New system, yes.  I get the argument, but the UAA is so geographically spread out as is. I don't really have an issue with the new system, at least for basketball.  It is way worse in soccer, no conference should be getting 8 teams in hence the NESCAC Protection Index.  I just think that this kind of bracket is a bit of an equalizer.  If you're going to benefit from NPI in getting at large selections I don't think you can quibble about where you get placed in the bracket.

If the rest of the country doesn't want 8 NESCAC soccer teams to make the tournament, the rest of the country should get better at soccer.

[stlawus]

The dials in soccer are different.  You had a team that was 7-6-3 and lost in the NESCAC quarterfinal make the tournament.  The rest of the country was better at soccer. 

[SpringSt7]

NPI is not the NESCAC Protection Index. This is part of the deal if you're getting a lot of teams in under the current system.

The last time the NESCAC got 5 teams in the tournament was 2017 and they were in 3 different quadrants. Williams and Middlebury were the top 2 teams and they were in the same quadrant but Tufts was also highly ranked and was in a quadrant with Amherst. Wesleyan was a bubble ish team and they were in their own quadrant. So while I understand that argument, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me that this is a byproduct of the system, even if that was pre NPI.

Not to mention there are plenty of second weekend hosting sites that would line up from an NPI and geography standpoint that you could've slotted either Tufts or Wesleyan into

[D3BBALL]

NPI is not the NESCAC Protection Index. This is part of the deal if you're getting a lot of teams in under the current system.

The last time the NESCAC got 5 teams in the tournament was 2017 and they were in 3 different quadrants. Williams and Middlebury were the top 2 teams and they were in the same quadrant but Tufts was also highly ranked and was in a quadrant with Amherst. Wesleyan was a bubble ish team and they were in their own quadrant. So while I understand that argument, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me that this is a byproduct of the system, even if that was pre NPI.

Not to mention there are plenty of second weekend hosting sites that would line up from an NPI and geography standpoint that you could've slotted either Tufts or Wesleyan into

Exactly!!!!

[D3BBALL]

Wow, surprised re Civello.  Definitely would be a blow but of course easier to make that call when the coach who recruited you is fired.  Will he interesting to see what sort of offers he gets - he easily has D1 size and skills at the 5, but not the typical D1 athleticism.  But I assume he has reason to believe there will be Patriot / Ivy type interest if he's putting his name out there.

As you say he has some upside, but he is no way ready to play D1 certainly not at the Patriot/Ivy type schools. He would be a huge defensive liability and just don't see him being able to do the same things offensively as he does in the NESCAC.

Good comparison is Callahan Gold, who is 2-3 inches shorter, but they both like to play from the outside. But Civello is nowhere near as athletic as Gold was. Gold could handle the ball a little, could come off screens shooting, could shoot a pull up, and would play down low, rebound etc. Civello does not do those things yet. Gold had a good year for Binghamton, mostly coming off the bench and shot the ball well. But it was on basically a 500 team. Civello is not a Sobel or Murray, so doesn't impact the game down low on either end. Sobel had a great year at Sacred Heart yet on a 500 team, but again totally different players and Murray did ok as a bench player for Merrimack but not the player he was at Conn.

Civello, IMO, would be better off staying in D3, there are plenty of high academics outside NESCAC that would want him. Babson, WPI, Brandies, MIT, NYI etc. But if he goes D1, he most likely has to sit out a year to get his body to where it needs to be to even have a shot to play at the level. In the meantime, the same school that took him in will be looking to replace him with a better option.

Would be interesting to know why he is leaving especially if he goes to another D3 school.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

NPI is not the NESCAC Protection Index. This is part of the deal if you're getting a lot of teams in under the current system.

The last time the NESCAC got 5 teams in the tournament was 2017 and they were in 3 different quadrants. Williams and Middlebury were the top 2 teams and they were in the same quadrant but Tufts was also highly ranked and was in a quadrant with Amherst. Wesleyan was a bubble ish team and they were in their own quadrant. So while I understand that argument, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me that this is a byproduct of the system, even if that was pre NPI.

Not to mention there are plenty of second weekend hosting sites that would line up from an NPI and geography standpoint that you could've slotted either Tufts or Wesleyan into

This NPI system is night and day from what we being used in 2017.  Before, unless two teams were in the same region, there was no mechanism to measure them against each other.  Therefore you essentially had four pots - pod 1, 2, 3, and 4 seeds.  You could easily interchange them between pods, because they were, for all intents and purposes, considered even.

Now, we have a specific ranking of 1-64 and a stated intention to keep seeds in their prescribed positions unless it violates specific rules: the 500 mile travel restriction or conference teams meeting in the first round.

The committee further tries (but is not obligated) to keep conference opponents from meeting in the second round, as well.  This is above and beyond requirement.

After that, they don't really have license to move the 14th seed into the 15th spot, just because they like the matchups better.

Yes, as I've said, in the previous system everything you've said is correct.  It wouldn't make sense to keep all the NESCACs together unless there's a geographic imperative to do so.

This is a new system and you cannot hold the new system to the standard practices of the old.

[D3BBALL]

Congratulations to Trinity on an utterly dominant NESCAC championship win. It was mentioned that the asterisk in Trinity's 3-year resume is that they never won a regular season title, but winning back-to-back-to-back NESCAC titles on the road is more impressive than any possible regular season feat. It's a shame for Vetter that dagger shots in high-stakes games isn't a measured statistic, because he truly always steps up when they need him most. As a team, they just have that championship DNA that allows them to rise to a different level on the biggest stage and that obviously bodes well for them going forward.

Looking towards the tournament, ironically, I think Trinity has the toughest first weekend pod. Both Babson and St. Joseph's (ME) have tournament pedigree and are peaking at the right time (both won their conference championship by 25+ points), and Redlands is a scary matchup for anyone. That being said, I am not worried about Trinity -- they rise to the occasion. The level of experience their top guys have in big games is remarkable and maybe unprecedented? Vetter, Okorougo, Lazarre, Berry, McDonald, and even Davis all played significant minutes in both the '24 Final Four run and last year's title run. Some older D3Hoops historians can correct me on this, but I can't imagine there have been many teams heading into any NCAA tournament with this level of experience playing in March.

I am relatively confident that we will see the Wesleyan vs. Tufts matchup in the sweet sixteen, especially if Gyimesi is healthy. If he is, I could see that game going either way. If not, Wesleyan's path to Fort Wayne looks promising. I am going to attribute their abysmal second half performance in the NESCAC championship to Trinity's smothering defense; I remain optimistic about their chances. If Wolinski can put up 18 in a half on Trinity's defense, he can do it against anyone. In March, it's not the X's and O's, but the Jimmy's and Joes.

I think Yeshiva beats Bates in the first round. For one, Pouye has been largely underwhelming in big games (possibly injury-induced). Yeshiva is on a 14-game win streak, were undefeated in conference, and are battle tested with one of the toughest non-conference schedules in the country (including the top 3 NESCAC teams). Zevi Samet is an elite scorer and I don't see Bates containing him. Not to mention that the game in New Jersey will essentially be a home game for one of the most dedicated fandoms in the country.

All in all, I think Trinity is the only team with a real chance at cutting down the nets (and a strong one at that). Tufts' fate is largely decided by Gyimesi's status, but I'd put my money on Wesleyan making it to the Elite 8. Best of luck to all!

Midrange some great points.
Trinity had 7 players last year that were never afraid of the moment. Dorion, Vetter, Okorougo, Lazarre, Berry, McDonald and Macarchuk. This year I think they have just as many, Vetter, Okorougo, Lazarre, Berry, McDonald and now Davis and Ayles. And you are correct, they have 3 players that have played significant and crucial minutes for 4 years, Lazarre and Berry for 3 years and Davis and Ayles for 2 years. And more importantly all together.
St Joes and Redlands are both teams capable of beating Trintiy and should be a worry. St Joes is healthy and on a 17-game win streak and Redlands has proven they can beat elite teams.

Yeshiva, played a tough out of conference schedule, but they lost most of those games. I think Bates has a shot, they have some defenders that could give Samet some issues. But as you say Pouye needs to play better and the traveling could be an issue.

Wesleyan is so well coached, and the back-to-back games will be an advantage for them, they should be a lock for sweet 16. Tufts needs to find a way to get Gyimesi healthy, don't think they beat Wesleyan without him.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Yeshiva, played a tough out of conference schedule, but they lost most of those games. I think Bates has a shot, they have some defenders that could give Samet some issues. But as you say Pouye needs to play better and the traveling could be an issue.

Not to mention 95% of the people in that gym will be rooting for Yeshiva, which is about 20 miles away.

[D3BBALL]

Stlawus makes a good point.  I'd rather a system that lets more teams in (fairly I think, these are clearly five of the best 64 teams nationally) vs one that ensures geographic dispersion. 

Don't disagree with NPI, but it is no different than D1, after they have the teams chosen, they move around 2, 3, 4 seeds so they don't play other teams from the same conferences, especially elite teams until the elite 8 or beyond. Someone else pointed out that Tufts could have been placed in another bracket, why didn't the committee do this?
You have the number 1 team having 8 teams in top 25 in their bracket? All other brackets have 6. Why didn't the committee notice this and at least switch WPI and Babson, if you want to make it fair?

[Stickthe3]

I agree with D3BBALL on Civello - I think he is the perfect D3 player given his size and skillset.  Going D1 would be a tough adjustment considering his (lack of) athleticism.  He could become a solid player at the Ivy/Patriot league level I'm sure, but I think he would really thrive staying D3. He's got All-American written all over him.

I don't know what his options are or where he is thinking of possibly going, but FWIW, word on the street is when he went to ask Coach Rutigliano about the possibility of entering the portal to explore his options, the Coach told him if he entered he wouldn't take him back.  Which, IMO, is a WILD move by the coach to not only not support him as a player, but possibly not take back a 6'11" player with his skillset!! Especially given Colby underperformed this year. If that is true, that likely means Civello is as good as gone and also a massive, massive blunder by the Colby coach.

[nescac1]

Stickthe3, wow, if that Civello rumor is true, that seems nuts to me.  Many high-level guys in D3 test the portal and return if they don't like their options - including Henry Vetter last year!  Trinity is no doubt delighted he decided to return.  As a D3 coach, it's hard to begrudge a star who has an opportunity to maybe get a free ride or even NIL money over and above that.  But if it doesn't work out, why would you deny that player an opportunity to return (especially because it only hurts you / the team if he does not)?  Makes no sense. 

[D3BBALL]

The dials in soccer are different.  You had a team that was 7-6-3 and lost in the NESCAC quarterfinal make the tournament.  The rest of the country was better at soccer. 

NPI like everything isn't perfect. I think last year a NESCAC lacrosse team made the NCAA's and didn't even make the NESCAC tournament, ouch!!!

[D3BALL13]

I agree with D3BBALL on Civello - I think he is the perfect D3 player given his size and skillset.  Going D1 would be a tough adjustment considering his (lack of) athleticism.  He could become a solid player at the Ivy/Patriot league level I'm sure, but I think he would really thrive staying D3. He's got All-American written all over him.

I don't know what his options are or where he is thinking of possibly going, but FWIW, word on the street is when he went to ask Coach Rutigliano about the possibility of entering the portal to explore his options, the Coach told him if he entered he wouldn't take him back.  Which, IMO, is a WILD move by the coach to not only not support him as a player, but possibly not take back a 6'11" player with his skillset!! Especially given Colby underperformed this year. If that is true, that likely means Civello is as good as gone and also a massive, massive blunder by the Colby coach.

That is insane if that is true from Coach Rutigliano. Give the kid an opportunity to put his name out there for a D1 program and if not then he can come back and be a first team guy next year, unless he made them aware that he would leave them for another D3 program which would be a little different situation, I suppose. However, I don't believe he is D1 caliber, with no disrespect intended because he is a solid player at 6'11. Having 0 impact on the game down low on both sides of the court is an issue, and he just isn't athletic. I thought his freshman year he was on his way to the best player in the conference, but seems like he gained some weight and not much of it was muscle. That being said, he still had a great year, so who knows what he could do with high level training. He should go back to Colby, and pair up with incoming freshman Nolan Ames who is going to be a go to guy for the Mules right away. They could make some noise next year, and by his senior year should be top 3 in the conference.

[D3BBALL]

I agree with D3BBALL on Civello - I think he is the perfect D3 player given his size and skillset.  Going D1 would be a tough adjustment considering his (lack of) athleticism.  He could become a solid player at the Ivy/Patriot league level I'm sure, but I think he would really thrive staying D3. He's got All-American written all over him.

I don't know what his options are or where he is thinking of possibly going, but FWIW, word on the street is when he went to ask Coach Rutigliano about the possibility of entering the portal to explore his options, the Coach told him if he entered he wouldn't take him back.  Which, IMO, is a WILD move by the coach to not only not support him as a player, but possibly not take back a 6'11" player with his skillset!! Especially given Colby underperformed this year. If that is true, that likely means Civello is as good as gone and also a massive, massive blunder by the Colby coach.

Stick, wow, that is very interesting news and will just make it harder for Colby recruiting going forward. By far he will be their best player next year and if he was to play defense/rebound etc, easily one of the POY top candidates. Colby AD looking better and better every day!

If you are a coach you should be doing the best thing for your players, yes you hate to lose them, but if he had a shot to go D1, which IMO would be a mistake, got to let him explore it.

Coach looks really bad here.