MBB: NESCAC

[Bucket]

Stickthe3, wow, if that Civello rumor is true, that seems nuts to me.  Many high-level guys in D3 test the portal and return if they don't like their options - including Henry Vetter last year!  Trinity is no doubt delighted he decided to return.  As a D3 coach, it's hard to begrudge a star who has an opportunity to maybe get a free ride or even NIL money over and above that.  But if it doesn't work out, why would you deny that player an opportunity to return (especially because it only hurts you / the team if he does not)?  Makes no sense. 

Things could get interesting. In soccer, it's not uncommon for players to transfer within NESCAC. It seems that there's at least one every year or so. Would be fascinating if Civello transferred to another NESCAC school.

Middlebury soccer recently benefited from an all-conference midfielder transferring to Midd from ....Colby. Civello would look great in another shade of blue.

[D3BBALL]

Stickthe3, wow, if that Civello rumor is true, that seems nuts to me.  Many high-level guys in D3 test the portal and return if they don't like their options - including Henry Vetter last year!  Trinity is no doubt delighted he decided to return.  As a D3 coach, it's hard to begrudge a star who has an opportunity to maybe get a free ride or even NIL money over and above that.  But if it doesn't work out, why would you deny that player an opportunity to return (especially because it only hurts you / the team if he does not)?  Makes no sense. 

I thought there was some unwritten rule between the coaches about transferring within the league.

Does anyone know of any basketball player transferring within the league?
Things could get interesting. In soccer, it's not uncommon for players to transfer within NESCAC. It seems that there's at least one every year or so. Would be fascinating if Civello transferred to another NESCAC school.

Middlebury soccer recently benefited from an all-conference midfielder transferring to Midd from ....Colby. Civello would look great in another shade of blue.

[Patrick Coleman]

You have the number 1 team having 8 teams in top 25 in their bracket? All other brackets have 6. Why didn't the committee notice this and at least switch WPI and Babson, if you want to make it fair?

No NCAA committee has ever, in our 28 years of having a Top 25 poll, used our Top 25 poll in selecting the tournament or seeding it. In fact, the selection criteria specifically state that no outside ranking is used in the selection process.

[Patrick Coleman]

The dials in soccer are different.  You had a team that was 7-6-3 and lost in the NESCAC quarterfinal make the tournament.  The rest of the country was better at soccer. 

NPI like everything isn't perfect. I think last year a NESCAC lacrosse team made the NCAA's and didn't even make the NESCAC tournament, ouch!!!

Pre-NPI, again, no different here. There was a year a team made the baseball NCAA Tournament without making the NESCAC tournament.

[nescac1]

Interesting point, Bucket.  I am sure any NESCAC coach would love Civello and a lot of NESCAC teams have a huge need at center next year.  But of course, I hope it works out for him in D1! 

I'm trying to think of, historically, impactful NESCAC-to-NESCAC transfers in hoops and there have not been very many.  The biggest was probably Keith Wolff, who left Williams and led Trinity to the Final Four as one of the best players in the country. Craig Coupe was another big one, going from Tufts to Trinity.  But none others come immediately to mind (I'm probably forgetting somebody) and certainly nobody for quite some time. 

[D3BBALL]

You have the number 1 team having 8 teams in top 25 in their bracket? All other brackets have 6. Why didn't the committee notice this and at least switch WPI and Babson, if you want to make it fair?

No NCAA committee has ever, in our 28 years of having a Top 25 poll, used our Top 25 poll in selecting the tournament or seeding it. In fact, the selection criteria specifically state that no outside ranking is used in the selection process.

Pat, I should have been clearer, I did not use top 25 rated teams, my figures are based on NPI top 25 rankings.

[ccd494]

The dials in soccer are different.  You had a team that was 7-6-3 and lost in the NESCAC quarterfinal make the tournament.  The rest of the country was better at soccer. 

That Amherst team was actually 8-5-3 going into the NCAAs, and was 4-0-1 in the regular season non-conference.  They lost 1-0 in OT in the first round to an undefeated Catholic team, despite Amherst outshooting them. 

I'd hear an argument that Amherst had proven that they couldn't beat the top of the NESCAC and thus did not deserve an at large in favor of a team with a better record that hadn't yet had the opportunity to lose to Tufts or Bowdoin or Wesleyan.  I'm not sure I'd put much stock in an argument that any team not in the NCAA tournament was actually better at soccer than Amherst.  I'd take Amherst on a neutral field against any of the "snubbed" teams.

The NPI is designed to be conference agnostic, and is intended to answer the question of which teams are stronger.  I think it does that fairly well. 

[nescac1]

Yeah, I think the NCAA tournament results in men's soccer, where NESCAC has utterly dominated the country for more than a decade now - 8 out of the last 11 champions, 5 of the last 6 runners-up, loads of other Sweet 16 teams, with three different teams winning titles in that span and a fourth in the championship game - conclusively demonstrated that the mid-tier teams in NESCAC would breeze through their schedules in nearly any other D3 conference ... which is why the NESCAC NPI in soccer is so high, because of the crazy W-L record accrued by even the bottom third of the league in out-of-conference action.  Basketball is very different, NESCAC is obviously one of the top leagues in D3 but right now there is no clear top dog (WIAC was for awhile but seems to have slipped back to the back just a bit). 

[D3BBALL]

Yeah, I think the NCAA tournament results in men's soccer, where NESCAC has utterly dominated the country for more than a decade now - 8 out of the last 11 champions, 5 of the last 6 runners-up, loads of other Sweet 16 teams, with three different teams winning titles in that span and a fourth in the championship game - conclusively demonstrated that the mid-tier teams in NESCAC would breeze through their schedules in nearly any other D3 conference ... which is why the NESCAC NPI in soccer is so high, because of the crazy W-L record accrued by even the bottom third of the league in out-of-conference action.  Basketball is very different, NESCAC is obviously one of the top leagues in D3 but right now there is no clear top dog (WIAC was for awhile but seems to have slipped back to the back just a bit). 

I can't talk about soccer, but using any method there could be some flaws. I would say if you put any NESCAC basketball team in about 20 of the conferences Williams/Middlebury/Hamilton would be very close to the top if not win the conference this year.

[lumbercat]

I had not heard about the rumored exchange between Rutigliano and the player who has entered the portal. However, from some close to the program I've heard since early in his tenure on Mayflower Hill that Rutigliano is a tough no nonsense guy which I respect, but not sure if he might have ruffled some feathers among players recruited by the prior regime. He's a proven winner and I'm sure he will stick to his guns as he builds HIS program... as he should.

[el_jefe_90]

In this day and age, I'm not too surprised to see Civello in the portal. That's the nature of the portal in today's world.

Civello had a great year and is looking to possibly capitalize on it. I see a lot of people saying D1 might not be for him. While I agree he may have troubles, there is still D2, which I think he will be fine at. I do think if he is not back at Colby and comes back to D3, I could see him fitting in at a UAA or NEWMAC school. Perhaps Babson could be on the look for him? He's from South Weymouth, 30 minutes from the school.

[stlawus]

A lot of d3 schools have their transfer application deadline this week or next. Entering the portal without an already planned destination could be tricky. I don't know of schools make exceptions with athletic transfers as far as extensions though.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

A lot of d3 schools have their transfer application deadline this week or next. Entering the portal without an already planned destination could be tricky. I don't know of schools make exceptions with athletic transfers as far as extensions though.

D3 athletes are required to use the portal now (if I understand the new legislation correctly), so it may be a formality for guys who've already worked that out.  You'd assume you'd want to wait until the season is over, just for team chemistry.

[BaboNation]

In this day and age, I'm not too surprised to see Civello in the portal. That's the nature of the portal in today's world.

Civello had a great year and is looking to possibly capitalize on it. I see a lot of people saying D1 might not be for him. While I agree he may have troubles, there is still D2, which I think he will be fine at. I do think if he is not back at Colby and comes back to D3, I could see him fitting in at a UAA or NEWMAC school. Perhaps Babson could be on the look for him? He's from South Weymouth, 30 minutes from the school.

I think Babson was close with him the first time around.  They had him for a visit.  Obviously I can't get in his head on the decision he ultimately made.
I followed his career pre-Colby and marvel at the work he did to add muscle mass.

[SpringSt7]

Wow, surprised re Civello.  Definitely would be a blow but of course easier to make that call when the coach who recruited you is fired.  Will he interesting to see what sort of offers he gets - he easily has D1 size and skills at the 5, but not the typical D1 athleticism.  But I assume he has reason to believe there will be Patriot / Ivy type interest if he's putting his name out there.

As you say he has some upside, but he is no way ready to play D1 certainly not at the Patriot/Ivy type schools. He would be a huge defensive liability and just don't see him being able to do the same things offensively as he does in the NESCAC.

Good comparison is Callahan Gold, who is 2-3 inches shorter, but they both like to play from the outside. But Civello is nowhere near as athletic as Gold was. Gold could handle the ball a little, could come off screens shooting, could shoot a pull up, and would play down low, rebound etc. Civello does not do those things yet. Gold had a good year for Binghamton, mostly coming off the bench and shot the ball well. But it was on basically a 500 team. Civello is not a Sobel or Murray, so doesn't impact the game down low on either end. Sobel had a great year at Sacred Heart yet on a 500 team, but again totally different players and Murray did ok as a bench player for Merrimack but not the player he was at Conn.

Civello, IMO, would be better off staying in D3, there are plenty of high academics outside NESCAC that would want him. Babson, WPI, Brandies, MIT, NYI etc. But if he goes D1, he most likely has to sit out a year to get his body to where it needs to be to even have a shot to play at the level. In the meantime, the same school that took him in will be looking to replace him with a better option.

Would be interesting to know why he is leaving especially if he goes to another D3 school.

Civello is like 5-6 inches taller than Callahan-Gold. I think he is a clear D1 player. He is 6'10 and can really shoot it. We see these guys go into the portal and automatically imagine them as trying to play the same role at a higher level. Has anyone watched Patriot League basketball recently? He can pretty easily play 15 minutes a game as a back up big. Not to mention the improved strength and conditioning program that is nearly year round and more tailored to him as a player. He is never going to move like Shaq but if he went and played at Holy Cross I bet you would see a lot more shoulder definition.