MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[D-3 watcher]

There were a lot of fouls called because there were a lot of fouls being committed. Not a game for the timid.
IWU was very lucky. But to their credit, they never quit, they just just kept pushing, and Augie kinda trembled.

[D-3 watcher]

For the record, Rose's jacket came off first.

[Titan Q]

There were a lot of fouls called because there were a lot of fouls being committed. Not a game for the timid.
IWU was very lucky. But to their credit, they never quit, they just just kept pushing, and Augie kinda trembled.

Augie definitely got very timid on the offensive end when IWU started making the run. They looked like the very young team they are in the final 9:31.

The Vikings have some great talent on that FR class.  Ben Ryan is going to be a terrific player, and for the first time I saw flashes of what Tayvian Johnson might become down the road.  Coach G and his staff just do a great job bringing in talent every year.

Gotta believe this loss is really going to hurt in Rock Island.

[Titan Q]

Elmhurst 68
Millikin 61

[Titan Q]

+/- standings through Wednesday, January 30
Illinois Wesleyan +5
North Central +2
Augustana +1
Wheaton +1
Carthage +0
Millikin -1
North Park -4
Elmhurst -4

Saturday, February 2
North Park @ Millikin
Wheaton @ Illinois Wesleyan
Carthage @ Augustana
Elmhurst @ North Central

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

As defense exhibit #1, I cite your comments during the broadcast of the NCC/Ramapo game from Las Vegas in December. You seemed to find it very difficult to strongly voice any form of praise for any facet of the Cardinals game, most of your "compliments"  being of the "backhanded" variety. The "highlight" was when Ramapo trailed by 18 and Will Sanborn, obviously one of your favorite players, hit a 3 point bomb to "trim" the NCC lead to 15 with a little less than 13 minutes to play. Your comment at the time was something close to the fact that you expected Sanborn to likely hit 5 more three pointers in rapid order, and that the game would almost certainly either be tied up or close to it within a few more minutes of play.

Hopefully this is the last response I have to make here, but this was too ridiculous to let stand. Since Ramapo has been at our tournament before, we've seen Sanborn get hot and do some things, but this is more than even your standard everyone's-against-us hyperbole can sustain, Mark. I went back to the archive to make sure I didn't hear the same thing:

Starting at 1:15:52
DM: Kicks it out to Sanborn, first shot of the half ... buries it! That makes it a 15-point game and it's his first three of the game.
PC: Vince Kmiec was on him and had done a nice job sticking with him through a couple of screens and then kind of drifted back to play help defense and Sanborn took back a step and bam. That's what Sanborn needs is just a bit of an opening. Not much of an invitation required for him to shoot.
DM: No. And that could open him, though it was the first shot in seven minutes of the half for him... and a three-pointer! ... is good for Tiknis. Tiknis responds. ... makes it a 49-31 lead just when Ramapo seemed to get a spark.
PC: But I like Ramapo's chances if Sanborn's hot.

(Sanborn sinks a 26-footer)

DM: Sanborn from NBA hits!
PC: Much like that shot.
DM: Nicely done Pat Coleman.
PC: Thank you. No, seriously though, if Sanborn gets hot, I like Ramapo's chances better than North Central. I mean, the 15-point advantage is huge right now but ...
DM: ... that's five shots ...
PC: Ramapo is playing so far below its ceiling right now, they have a lot of room to improve, whereas North Central is playing really well.
DM: Sanborn normally a 38% 3-point shooter and 17-plus points a game. And a bail-out foul here, and honestly, not sure, I thought LoRusso was playing good defense.
PC: I thought, yeah, North Central needed to come out and pick up the ball from Brandon Williams. He was in trouble out near midcourt.

(and the game continues)

Mark, only you could take "that's five shots" and turn it into expecting Sanborn to likely hit 5 more three pointers in rapid order.

Does anyone believe you? Do you even believe yourself? That's ridiculous.

To answer your question----Yes

I'm sorry if I couldn't remember the exact wording used for a few minutes during a game that took place over a month ago. A lot has happened in my life over the past month, and I suspect its the same for you.

Actually, a degree of apology to Dave as it appears the quote I was pretty sure I remembered for the most part was Pat's---"No, seriously though, if Sanborn gets hot I like Ramapo's chances better than North Central. I mean the 15 point advantage is huge right now, but....."

You mean to tell me by that statement that despite the 15 point disadvantage that you didn't think Ramapo was going to come back and win the game? Come on Pat! The real question seems to be does anyone believe thats not what you meant?

And as far as my saying Dave expected Sanborn to hit 5 more shots, equal of course to the then 15 point lead, call me crazy, but I think by making the statement in that manner, that is exactly what he expected. And, I think most people would say the same thing. Why would there be talk of Sanborn heating up and then the statement "thats five shots" be made if it wasn't the expectation that making those 5 shots is exactly what would be forthcoming in fairly short order?

PC---"I like Ramapo's chanbes better than North Central."
DM---"Thats five shots."

Are you seriously telling me that by the above statements that both you and Dave didn't expect Ramapo to come back and erase that 15 point deficit, and that the further expectation was that Sanborn would likely be the player most responsible for the comeback by heating up and probably making 5 (more) threes? Really? 
What else could you have meant?
How can you deny that you thought Ramapo was the better team?

AndOne... unless you are in my head when I said the words "that's five shots" you have no idea what I was intending. Greg is close... I was basically making an off-the-cuff comment about how many shots Sanborn was going to need to hit in case people weren't sure of the score or the scenario. The way he was playing, or in his case NOT playing, I didn't know if he was going to finally wake up and start hitting. He did hit a couple of more big shots and Ramapo actually did cut the lead to within 4... so clearly something must have happened to erase what looked like a large lead. Furthermore, Sanborn has had huge nights in the past and we even saw him do it in Vegas in the two previous years. This year was the worse weekend of basketball I have seen Sanborn play. Not to knock North Central, but it wasn't their defense on him that stopped him... he simply didn't play. He would hide in the corner, not come to the ball, and make it easy to defend him since he wouldn't move on offense. Coach McBreen was clearly furious at him and even sat him for a long chunk of time in the La Crosse game even by McBreen's own admission, Sanborn knows there is no one that can sub in for him and make a difference.

Now to the point Pat made of twisting words to make your argument: I am rather annoyed and pissed off that you decide you want to first of all paraphrase what you think I said. Then you decide that when you are clearly wrong in your comments about my call, you still blast me by assuming you know what I meant, even if it was just three words, when you couldn't even get what I said correct in the first place.

I pride myself in calling a sporting event rather neutrally, though with a side of excitement, and I am always looking for a better outcome than a blow out will present. I am also my own worse critic and will blast myself for mistakes and bad calls. But to have someone like yourself decide you know what I mean, say, or was some how actually saying when I wasn't actually saying it is beyond insulting. Until you actually sit down and watch me do my job; until you do the job yourself; until you are actually in my shoes... I would appreciate you backing off the insults and innuendo.

[Titan Q]

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-wesleyan/iwu-men-rally-get-conference-win-at-augustana/article_f14c0e62-6b5c-11e2-b87b-001a4bcf887a.html


Down 16 points with just over nine minutes remaining Wednesday, Illinois Wesleyan coach Ron Rose gave his team a choice.

"The message was pretty simple. I told them we could keep playing or we could just ride it out. The guys made a pretty good decision," Rose said after watching the 12th-ranked Titans rally for a 71-65 victory at Augustana.
----------

"Illinois Wesleyan is an experienced team and once they got going, they kept coming," Giovanine said. "We told our guys to stay aggressive, keep attacking, but we didn't keep that up. The closer they came, the more tentative we got. That's a young team and we need to grow from this."

[Pat Coleman]

... I think you might be combining the two games. I think what you're describing about Sanborn checking out on offense was more in the UWL game, for what it's worth.

[iwumichigander]

IWU 71
Augustana 65

A bunch of Titans made huge plays during the comeback, and Eric Dortch was one of them.  Dortch kind of got the comeback started with some big plays on both ends.  Dylan Overstreet was big all night, and maybe the most important Titan player down the stretch.

Totally agree about Dortch as I told my better half I really thought he was a key to the game - great defense, offense when we needed it, did an outstanding job of help and recover; and, I thought his play enabled Ron Rose to rotate Reed and Davis both whom had 4 fouls fairly early in 2nd half.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

... I think you might be combining the two games. I think what you're describing about Sanborn checking out on offense was more in the UWL game, for what it's worth.

No, because I remember talking to McBreen after the NCC game and we talked about the fact that Sanborn knows he probably won't be subbed for even if he isn't trying. Then the next game against La Crosse he is doing the same thing and McBreen subs him out...

[Titan Q]

IWU 71
Augustana 65

A bunch of Titans made huge plays during the comeback, and Eric Dortch was one of them.  Dortch kind of got the comeback started with some big plays on both ends.  Dylan Overstreet was big all night, and maybe the most important Titan player down the stretch.

Totally agree about Dortch as I told my better half I really thought he was a key to the game - great defense, offense when we needed it, did an outstanding job of help and recover; and, I thought his play enabled Ron Rose to rotate Reed and Davis both whom had 4 fouls fairly early in 2nd half.

Eric Dortch is a unique player.  In my opinion, his real position is the 4 - he's basically an undersized (6-3) PF.  Ron Rose has tried to develop him as a 2/3.  While Dortch is as good as anybody in the CCIW defensively on perimeter players, offensively he's just not a 2/3...and I think it's been hard to find him time because of that. 

I'd be tempted to give all of Parker Musselman's post minutes to Dortch, and let him play the 4 off the bench.  Parker can make a wide-open 3-pointer...but that's about it right now.  Dortch can do a lot of things to help you win.  I'd like to see the Titans get the ball to Dortch back-to-the-basket on the blocks a few times a game.  It finally happened tonight in the 1st half and he looked comfortable - turned and scored.  Defensively, I don't think he'd have any trouble guarding an opposing 4 for a while.

[iwumichigander]

IWU 71
Augustana 65

A bunch of Titans made huge plays during the comeback, and Eric Dortch was one of them.  Dortch kind of got the comeback started with some big plays on both ends.  Dylan Overstreet was big all night, and maybe the most important Titan player down the stretch.

Totally agree about Dortch as I told my better half I really thought he was a key to the game - great defense, offense when we needed it, did an outstanding job of help and recover; and, I thought his play enabled Ron Rose to rotate Reed and Davis both whom had 4 fouls fairly early in 2nd half.

Eric Dortch is a unique player.  In my opinion, his real position is the 4 - he's basically an undersized (6-3) PF.  Ron Rose has tried to develop him as a 2/3.  While Dortch is as good as anybody in the CCIW defensively on perimeter players, offensively he's just not a 2/3...and I think it's been hard to find him time because of that. 

I'd be tempted to give all of Parker Musselman's post minutes to Dortch, and let him play the 4 off the bench.  Parker can make a wide-open 3-pointer...but that's about it right now.  Dortch can do a lot of things to help you win.  I'd like to see the Titans get the ball to Dortch back-to-the-basket on the blocks a few times a game.  It finally happened tonight in the 1st half and he looked comfortable - turned and scored.  Defensively, I don't think he'd have any trouble guarding an opposing 4 for a while.

Agree.  As I recall both Musselman and Anderson had trouble with Augustana in the earlier contest at the Shirk.  Musselman just does not seem to want to mix it up under the basket.  While I see improvement in Anderson, he still needs to spend more time in the weight room IMHO. At one point, Rose took Reed out late in the 2nd period, gambled keeping Davis (which i thought was a smart move with Davis and Reed having four fouls) on the bench and I thought Dortch did a particularly defensive good job in the post.  Dortch is strong, good rebounder and seems to play a little bigger than actual size for which he compensates with defensive positioning down low.   He is a pretty good passer too and could open up more opportunities for Reed and Davis.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Certainly not through with this season yet (not yet lighting a victory cigar, but the regular-season title and tourney hosting job seems set with the win tonight - they're not gonna lose THAT many games - so hopefully MANY weeks still to go!), but as Reed is the ONLY senior in the rotation, will the Titans be even better next year?  Speculation on Reed's replacement: Anderson? Dortch? Musselman?  Mayberry? other?  And will Zimmer continue as the best 6th man in the conference (country?), or replace somebody? 

[iwu70]

Ypsi, I've got my cigar chosen, but not lighting up quite yet.  Getting closer.  Beat WC at home and we can strike the match, seems to me.

I went to a meeting here in Hong Kong with the Titans down 10 and about 15:00 minutes to go, thought it didn't look at all good.  All the fouls and no one playing particularly well.  Great run at the end, obviously, for a big win.

Overstreet was huge . . . and I loved Eric Dortch's game, too -- always have.  Eric, Parker Musselman and Nick Anderson all have their strengths . . . and their weaknesses, so Ron Rose has to rotate them in and out given the foul situation and the matchups, the situation and clock phase. 

Congrats to Coach Rose and all the Titans for a very very big road win.  9-0, baby!!!  Keep it rolling.

We need Brady Zimmer back, all the other pieces of the rotation playing their part, a new guy or a few guys coming up big in each game.  Good to see more scoring from Zman and Victor Davis playing with some consistency now in conference play . . . a good change from earlier.  Tonight, it was Dortch's spark, defense and Overstreet's huge game. 

IWU70

[kiko]

Circling back on comments from the past week... while I thought handing the Titans the conference title was slightly premature coming out of Saturday's games, after tonight's impressive comeback, no way do I see them dropping any more than two games (at most) the rest of the way.

I don't think there's any question we'll be deciding the AQ at the Shirk in a few weeks' time.