MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[bballfanatic]

Olivet won their scrimmage against Kalamazoo Valley CC by 15

[Mr. Ypsi]

- Volleyball - MIAA Tournament Final: Calvin def. Hope 25-18, 22-25, 24-26, 25-23, 15-11
- Women's Soccer - MIAA Tournament Final: Calvin 2 Hope 1 OT
- Men's Soccer - MIAA Tournament Final: Calvin 3 Olivet 0
The above fine teams and coaches join the men's, and women's cc teams, plus the men's golf team as MIAA champions. 6 of the 7 fall sports  (Calvin plays).
This is the 'standard of excellence' at Calvin.
PLEASE DON'T WET YOURSELF KEVIN

Don't forget that their football team went undefeated for yet another year!

[devossed]

just had dinner with two fellas close to Hope's program and they too mentioned the whooping Bethel put on Hope the other night.  Anyone who was there......we know you're out there, care to elaborate?  Missing Colton is one thing but I've never considered him to be a great "distributor" and in all truthfullness,is fairly limited in half-court sets.  What gives on the Bethlel scrimmage?  Apparently he (overway) played against the CC team...correct?

My company for the night also praised the sheer enormity of the new kid.  Something like "circus side-show" big for a frosh.  Hope he puts in the work and pans out in the long run.

Kopas, Bosch and Elliott now at Hudsy....plenty of recent Hudsy hoop grads playing somewhere other than Hope, albeit several choosing to play hardball instead.

I've heard a few different things about Kopas from reputable sources: that he had a bit of a falling out with Neil and Vanwieren about $ issues the last few years; or that he just wanted to spend more time with his family and charitable endeavors; or even that he's just really good friends with Elliott and wanted to enjoy the change of scenery with him.

Whatever the reason, I'll miss seeing him on the sidelines - he was always very nice to me and my family, and would always stop and have a fun word for the "special" group of fans that populate the top row across the concourse.

But I've also noticed that Hudsonville trend you mentioned -- seems like the days of stars like Immink/Reimink/etc just "coming" to Hope may be over...and that there seems to be some discontent with the fanbase about how some recent players have been treated by the Hope program in the last few years.

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/players/
(see #4)

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/7019792451807478955/austin-elling-looks-toward-next-level-big-improvement-for-hudsonville/

http://www.yhtsn.com/Public/SportFeatureRead.aspx?content=576

Kopas did a yeoman's amount of work for Hope, and with a young family that's difficult to maintain.

As for Elling and vanLoo, did you watch them play at Hope?

I've had the pleasure of getting to know both Austin and Nick, and they are great young men.  I also watched a lot of jv basketball their freshman year.  Unfortunately, they were good players in a large pool of good players, and they didn't translate as well to the college game as one might have expected.  The coaching staff went to great lengths to work with them, but in the end hard choices had to be made, just like they have to be made every year.  Not a big mystery, IMHO.

I think you're missing my point...It wasn't that Hope got it wrong for cutting the two boys -- that was (as you said), a choice that had to be made. I have watched them play since well before they came to Hope - and I know what they did and didn't bring to the table.

My point was that I've heard of those in the Hudsonville community that don't feel the same way - and that community no longer has the love and dedication to Hope College as it did when Vanwieren was at the helm. I was merely elaborating on hoopdreams' original thought since they started us down this tangent.

Perhaps not worthy of the massive ding from the karma fairy if the fairy also misunderstood?

[Civic Minded]

just had dinner with two fellas close to Hope's program and they too mentioned the whooping Bethel put on Hope the other night.  Anyone who was there......we know you're out there, care to elaborate?  Missing Colton is one thing but I've never considered him to be a great "distributor" and in all truthfullness,is fairly limited in half-court sets.  What gives on the Bethlel scrimmage?  Apparently he (overway) played against the CC team...correct?

My company for the night also praised the sheer enormity of the new kid.  Something like "circus side-show" big for a frosh.  Hope he puts in the work and pans out in the long run.

Kopas, Bosch and Elliott now at Hudsy....plenty of recent Hudsy hoop grads playing somewhere other than Hope, albeit several choosing to play hardball instead.

I've heard a few different things about Kopas from reputable sources: that he had a bit of a falling out with Neil and Vanwieren about $ issues the last few years; or that he just wanted to spend more time with his family and charitable endeavors; or even that he's just really good friends with Elliott and wanted to enjoy the change of scenery with him.

Whatever the reason, I'll miss seeing him on the sidelines - he was always very nice to me and my family, and would always stop and have a fun word for the "special" group of fans that populate the top row across the concourse.

But I've also noticed that Hudsonville trend you mentioned -- seems like the days of stars like Immink/Reimink/etc just "coming" to Hope may be over...and that there seems to be some discontent with the fanbase about how some recent players have been treated by the Hope program in the last few years.

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/players/
(see #4)

http://highschoolsports.mlive.com/news/article/7019792451807478955/austin-elling-looks-toward-next-level-big-improvement-for-hudsonville/

http://www.yhtsn.com/Public/SportFeatureRead.aspx?content=576

Kopas did a yeoman's amount of work for Hope, and with a young family that's difficult to maintain.

As for Elling and vanLoo, did you watch them play at Hope?

I've had the pleasure of getting to know both Austin and Nick, and they are great young men.  I also watched a lot of jv basketball their freshman year.  Unfortunately, they were good players in a large pool of good players, and they didn't translate as well to the college game as one might have expected.  The coaching staff went to great lengths to work with them, but in the end hard choices had to be made, just like they have to be made every year.  Not a big mystery, IMHO.

I think you're missing my point...It wasn't that Hope got it wrong for cutting the two boys -- that was (as you said), a choice that had to be made. I have watched them play since well before they came to Hope - and I know what they did and didn't bring to the table.

My point was that I've heard of those in the Hudsonville community that don't feel the same way - and that community no longer has the love and dedication to Hope College as it did when Vanwieren was at the helm. I was merely elaborating on hoopdreams' original thought since they started us down this tangent.

Perhaps not worthy of the massive ding from the karma fairy if the fairy also misunderstood?

I get your point, I think (we might be arguing semantics) but disagree (aside from the fact that Hudsonville parents are notoriously difficult in many cases).  The recent era standouts from Hudsonville, Immink and Reimink, a) had the goods, and b) had direct connections to Hope (both Dad's played).  I don't think there was any special "feeder system" involved.  Yes there have been a few others, but...  To follow this train of thought (whether yours or the Hudsonville parents'), the good folks at Holland High should be outraged -- "Hope hasn't had anyone on the team from Holland High since the Carlsons!" 

And fyi, not sure who's dinging your karma, but twernt me.   

[sac]

Well, discontent with Hudsonville or its residents, either real or imagined, Hudsonville Ice Cream always makes my varsity.

[sac]

Albion coach Jodi May talks a little about his team.  You can all learn that Sr. Chris Hutton tore an acl this summer and is out to start the season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT78iAZ8aDY&feature=plcp

[hoopdreams]

Thank you for taking the bait FDF.  I was tired of reading over endless math scenarios on how the coaches could have voted, so thought I'd stir the pot....mission accomplished.  FWIW-  in my clueless eyes, Hope is #1 and has been for a handful of years, the preseason crown should be theirs....case closed, there is no vote needed based on hypotheticals.  But I know, it IS fun to speculate once in a while

Back to the basis of your fury.  I could have said what I truly think which is this- I don't think CO is a great PG in a halfcourt set, rather much more effective in transition.  This is his strength.  I'm assuming that is we went back through the game tape the past 2 years, a vast majority of his assists would be via transition or turnover.  This is not a bad thing and he shouldn't be penalized, he/Hope is utilizing his strength.  Going back to WO, running a team, was not a strength, ever prevelant in the OK Red. So ineffective that WO moved him to the 2 his senior year.   You could say they did it to get Myrick on the floor but we've all witnessed how well that has gone the past 4 years or so...Maybe CO wasn't that effective? There was a reason why no other schools had him on their recruiting radar. WO was loaded with athletes by the way and i'll say it again- the most under achieving team in WM...ever.

But if I had stuck with my initial thought, it would have simply disappeared into the vastness of many other posts on this board.

Doing the math, CO is avering just over 3 assists for his career...solid but nothing of a great floor leader based only on #'s.  Yes, his #'s are low due to Krombeen and minutes but his has also played primarily inferior competition with a vastly superior roster. Those who dispute this still think GVW won 700 games due to great coaching NOT the whole incredibly deep, talented roster vs the average roster.  Make a pass let your teammates finish... Once again, how many times have we seen him fly up the floor, displaying amazing athletic ability...but against only 1 or 2 defenders back on D?  Even I moron (like me apparently) can tell that it's easier to score against 1 or 2 defenders covering half the floor, as opposed to 5, all of whom have a sightline on the ball, are physically able to help and are in position to help.

To whom ever commented on the two hudsy kids.....no I did not see them play on Hope's VARSITY team.  It had nothing to do with depth in their class but entirely on their lack of basketball skills. They were both pretty bad JV college players. Does anyone find it strange that a Hope Legend (EE) left after 1 year of coaching at Hope? Remember the talk about him replacing GVW?  And now the pipeline connecting Hudsy and Devos has seemingly dried up?  Hmmmmm. That's a whole different post though.

FDF- nothing against you as a person but this reply should give all an idea of where you stand for pertaining to all that is Hope...  After 4or5 years to reflect, do you still think it was OK to pull Jungling off the street, in mid season, to fill a PG void?  When Hope had capable alternates on their roster (Bunn and bowser both played pg in hs & aau) AND, AND, AND a JV roster that is supposed to prepare athletes to play in the MIAA? 

[sac]

After 4or5 years to reflect, do you still think it was OK to pull Jungling off the street, in mid season, to fill a PG void?  When Hope had capable alternates on their roster (Bunn and bowser both played pg in hs & aau) AND, AND, AND a JV roster that is supposed to prepare athletes to play in the MIAA?

Jungling was enrolled at Hope and had tried out for the team 2 months earlier, this is hardly 'off the streets'.  He kept himself in shape and was ready to go when asked, and he didn't hurt that team.  That's a circumstance that is normally admired. 

[sac]

KS has a nice write-up of Calvin's scrimmage with GRCC on his blog.

Those reading it or aware of Calvin's performance will note GRCC played JC #1 Mott CC and lost 79-76 yesterday.

[almcguirejr]

Thank you for taking the bait FDF. 

Hoopdreams, nobody baits other posters as well as you.  In fact, you are so good at it one might think of you as a master baiter. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Thank you for taking the bait FDF. 

Hoopdreams, nobody baits other posters as well as you.  In fact, you are so good at it one might think of you as a master baiter. 

That was a true stroke of genius!

[sac]

I don't remember seeing anything about former Olivet coach Gene Gifford landing on his feet at Muskegon Oakridge but here's a little write-up from this summer.

http://localsportsjournal.com/2012/08/gene-gifford-named-new-athletic-director-at-oakridge-high-school/

[sac]

Alma's playing an exhibition game at IPFW tonight.

IPFW provides all the relevant links:  http://www.gomastodons.com/news/2012/11/4/MBB_1104124054.aspx?path=mbball

[KnightSlappy]

I was tired of reading over endless math scenarios on how the coaches could have voted

A fourth possibility:

           1   2   3   4   5   6   7   TOT
Hope       6   0   1   0   0   0   0   9
Adrian     0   6   1   0   0   0   0   15
Calvin     2   0   5   0   0   0   0   17
Trine      0   2   1   4   0   0   0   23
Albion     0   0   0   4   3   0   0   31
Alma       0   0   0   0   4   2   1   39
Olivet     0   0   0   0   1   5   1   42
Kalamazoo  0   0   0   0   0   1   6   48

[sac]

Hope's Meet the Dutchmen and Meet the Dutch  a.k.a.  Hope Madness is tonight. 

Depending on which social media outlet you're hooked into (or is hooked into you) its either at 6:30 or 7pm.