FB: Liberty League

[dlippiel]

Starving ... haven't eaten yet ... this being in-shape thing sucks sometimes ...

Working out? Nice job on the espn news by the way. It is amazing how far this d3 has come. You guys have done a great job. We all appreciate it!

Yeah good job on the leader... they even head a headshot.  Was it just me or did the announcer get a little annoying?  He would say the school name, then stress the mascot like it was really cool.

Hobart... the STATESMEN, they take on the WARRIORS from Lycoming.

TGP has the selection broadcast on Tivo and other than seeing Hobart's name on the bracket, neither the ESPN nor Pat actually said "Hobart" or the "Statesmen" in the (very brief to be fair) review of the MUC bracket.

Lyco got props for being the Williamsport (ie, ESPN loves the LLWS) home base as well as got a shout out from the ESPN guy for having a "selection viewing party" ie, watching the selection show.

BTW - RPI fans - the Lyco press release re: the Bart game indicated that "Hobart did not face a nationally ranked opponent this season."  Guess that #17/20 RPI ranking never really happened?

Obviously they are probably referring to the "final standings" but they gave themselves credit for beating a (then) #22 Del Val so, TGP would think they'd at least honor the RPI ranking.

Sorry I was paraphrashing the ESPN guy... it just seemed that since he was probably just learning about 80% of these teams existance he just went nuts on their nicknames.  Watch it again.

What cracked me up is that he completely overlooked Cortland and Ithaca too.  Spewed out the PANTHERS from PLYMOUTH AVERAGE 400 YARDS of OFFENSE A GAME!!!!  It's their first time back in the tournament in x years.....AND THE

_{note to ESPN C-State will crush this NEFC team and might hold them to under 100 yards of total of offense}

COLONELS from CURRY AVERAGE 500 YARDS of OFFENSE A GAME!!!

_{same deal - no clue that IC a) will smoke Curry and b) Dem Spicy Boyz probably should have even been given a Pool C in the first place - oh well}

Do we know of any "special" relationships between NEFC people and NCAA people? Clearly any team averaging 400 to 500 plus yards of O a game is unstoppable and worth mentioning. Even if they play in the local pop warner league.

[lewdogg11]

Look guys, as far as i'm concerned, I know Curry and the NEFC can NOT compete day in and day out with the LL, E8, and NJAC.  However, when all is said and done, Curry did what they needed to do to make the tournament.  They have 1 loss, to the Pool A candidate from their conference.  They did NOT blow a game against Merchant Marine, FDU-Florham, Springfield or Kean.  Of those 4 teams, other than Kean, Curry and Plymouth would smoke the others.  RPI, Delaware Valley, and Hartwick did NOT. 

It's my belief that if Curry were the conference champ, and Plymouth was 9-1, Plymouth would NOT have gotten the Pool C bid.  However, Curry won in the playoffs last year, and they have been in the dance, what, 6 years in a row?  They deserved to be chosen, no matter what the outcome this week.  No OTHER NEFC team deserved that, other than Plymouth who made their own bed, and no other East team deserved the Bid as much as Curry.

As far as i'm concerned, RPI, Delaware Valley, Montclair, Rowan, or Hartwick would NOT have gotten past round 2 anyway, because Ithaca and Cortland are a step above the rest of the East this year.  Unfortunately Mount Union doesn't do much for their chances, but you never know.

The best we can hope for is for Cortland and IC to do their jobs this week and win in stylish fashion, and for Hobart to pull one out.  The Hobart Lyco game should be a great one.  I don't think Hobart is good enough to get past round 2(not to mention they'd be playing MUC), but let's hope for the LL that they can knock off Lycoming.

[Reno Hightower]

Look guys, as far as i'm concerned, I know Curry and the NEFC can NOT compete day in and day out with the LL, E8, and NJAC.  However, when all is said and done, Curry did what they needed to do to make the tournament.  They have 1 loss, to the Pool A candidate from their conference.  They did NOT blow a game against Merchant Marine, FDU-Florham, Springfield or Kean.  Of those 4 teams, other than Kean, Curry and Plymouth would smoke the others.  RPI, Delaware Valley, and Hartwick did NOT. 

It's my belief that if Curry were the conference champ, and Plymouth was 9-1, Plymouth would NOT have gotten the Pool C bid.  However, Curry won in the playoffs last year, and they have been in the dance, what, 6 years in a row?  They deserved to be chosen, no matter what the outcome this week.  No OTHER NEFC team deserved that, other than Plymouth who made their own bed, and no other East team deserved the Bid as much as Curry.

As far as i'm concerned, RPI, Delaware Valley, Montclair, Rowan, or Hartwick would NOT have gotten past round 2 anyway, because Ithaca and Cortland are a step above the rest of the East this year.  Unfortunately Mount Union doesn't do much for their chances, but you never know.

The best we can hope for is for Cortland and IC to do their jobs this week and win in stylish fashion, and for Hobart to pull one out.  The Hobart Lyco game should be a great one.  I don't think Hobart is good enough to get past round 2(not to mention they'd be playing MUC), but let's hope for the LL that they can knock off Lycoming.

Well said. Currys 1 loss is actually better than Plymouth's 1 loss! Currys 1 loss is certainly better than RPI's 2 losses but probably not Montclairs. I think Curry got in based on their win last year vs the E8 Champ. And Im sick of hearing that Hartwick was the defacto E8 Champ last year. They beat Ithica and SJF and have maybe the best QB in D3, that makes them a tough out!

Go Hobart! The LL appeared to be on the right track in 05 when Bart and The U both won round 1 games vs the NJAC and E8 Champs then suffered very close 2nd round losses. Have not won an NCAA Game since. Hobart is our only chance to get it done this year so hopefully they will. And, though I always hate to say it, would like to see RPI beat Alfred for the sake of the LL.

[dlippiel]

Look guys, as far as i'm concerned, I know Curry and the NEFC can NOT compete day in and day out with the LL, E8, and NJAC.  However, when all is said and done, Curry did what they needed to do to make the tournament.  They have 1 loss, to the Pool A candidate from their conference.  They did NOT blow a game against Merchant Marine, FDU-Florham, Springfield or Kean.  Of those 4 teams, other than Kean, Curry and Plymouth would smoke the others.  RPI, Delaware Valley, and Hartwick did NOT. 

It's my belief that if Curry were the conference champ, and Plymouth was 9-1, Plymouth would NOT have gotten the Pool C bid.  However, Curry won in the playoffs last year, and they have been in the dance, what, 6 years in a row?  They deserved to be chosen, no matter what the outcome this week.  No OTHER NEFC team deserved that, other than Plymouth who made their own bed, and no other East team deserved the Bid as much as Curry.

As far as i'm concerned, RPI, Delaware Valley, Montclair, Rowan, or Hartwick would NOT have gotten past round 2 anyway, because Ithaca and Cortland are a step above the rest of the East this year.  Unfortunately Mount Union doesn't do much for their chances, but you never know.

The best we can hope for is for Cortland and IC to do their jobs this week and win in stylish fashion, and for Hobart to pull one out.  The Hobart Lyco game should be a great one.  I don't think Hobart is good enough to get past round 2(not to mention they'd be playing MUC), but let's hope for the LL that they can knock off Lycoming.

Well said Lew I just think Curry does not belong over the likes of Montclair and/or Rowan this year. When the NEFC has two teams and the rest of the eastern conferences only have one I just don't think that is right regarding the overall strength of the conferences as a whole. Who knows both Curry and PSU could blow this up and win or make a solid showing this Sat. The league as a whole is simply not as deep as the others period. Yes Curry wond an NCAA game last year, and I give them credit, BUT they beat a team who lost to WNEC and gave up 70 to Utica but just happens to have an NFL calibur QB who can blow anyone up on any given day. If the conference is for real these two teams will make a stand on Sat. We shall see. If they prove me wrong I will rightfully send RESPECT their way. Not until they earn it though and to me, they have not. At least not over the E8, LL, and NJAC.

[labart96]

This week's sign that the apocolypse is upon us:

LD is the voice of reason on the LLPP

[lewdogg11]

Look guys, as far as i'm concerned, I know Curry and the NEFC can NOT compete day in and day out with the LL, E8, and NJAC.  However, when all is said and done, Curry did what they needed to do to make the tournament.  They have 1 loss, to the Pool A candidate from their conference.  They did NOT blow a game against Merchant Marine, FDU-Florham, Springfield or Kean.  Of those 4 teams, other than Kean, Curry and Plymouth would smoke the others.  RPI, Delaware Valley, and Hartwick did NOT. 

It's my belief that if Curry were the conference champ, and Plymouth was 9-1, Plymouth would NOT have gotten the Pool C bid.  However, Curry won in the playoffs last year, and they have been in the dance, what, 6 years in a row?  They deserved to be chosen, no matter what the outcome this week.  No OTHER NEFC team deserved that, other than Plymouth who made their own bed, and no other East team deserved the Bid as much as Curry.

As far as i'm concerned, RPI, Delaware Valley, Montclair, Rowan, or Hartwick would NOT have gotten past round 2 anyway, because Ithaca and Cortland are a step above the rest of the East this year.  Unfortunately Mount Union doesn't do much for their chances, but you never know.

The best we can hope for is for Cortland and IC to do their jobs this week and win in stylish fashion, and for Hobart to pull one out.  The Hobart Lyco game should be a great one.  I don't think Hobart is good enough to get past round 2(not to mention they'd be playing MUC), but let's hope for the LL that they can knock off Lycoming.

Well said Lew I just think Curry does not belong over the likes of Montclair and/or Rowan this year. When the NEFC has two teams and the rest of the eastern conferences only have one I just don't think that is right regarding the overall strength of the conferences as a whole. Who knows both Curry and PSU could blow this up and win or make a solid showing this Sat. The league as a whole is simply not as deep as the others period. Yes Curry wond an NCAA game last year, and I give them credit, BUT they beat a team who lost to WNEC and gave up 70 to Utica but just happens to have an NFL calibur QB who can blow anyone up on any given day. If the conference is for real these two teams will make a stand on Sat. We shall see. If they prove me wrong I will rightfully send RESPECT their way. Not until they earn it though and to me, they have not. At least not over the E8, LL, and NJAC.

Dude, I agree with you, the NEFC does not deserve 2 teams, and ANY other scenario would not have allowed it.  But, with no one else taking care of business, a 9-1 Curry DOES deserve it.  NEFC aside, Curry deserved it.  Yes, they only beat Hartwick last year, but they DID beat Hartwick.  Again, taking care of business.  RPI was much better than TCNJ, they did NOT take care of business.

How strong is the NJAC this year?  Cortland ran the table then got blown out by Ithaca.  How strong is the E8 this year?  Tough to tell, but apparently, just based on Cortaca, stronger than the NJAC.  Then the LL...the LL had a down year...again!  RPI was a shining star of hope until 2 weeks ago.  Hobart has seemed to sneak by their opponents all year.  If I had to rank those 3 leagues for this year, I would put it as 1. E8, 2. NJAC, then 3. LL.  Kean was a tough team for Montclair, and had they lost in week 1 to Kean, it might be different, but they lost in the last week of the season.  That is the way it goes.

['gro]

Lewdogg is dropping science on all of you.  Lots of post season whinning going on. LD nailed right on the head about Curry. Besides being in the NEFC, what did they do WRONG? Nothing, really. Lost to the conference champ that's it. That's how the NCAA rolls, and Gro knew Curry was getting in.

All the hartwick and fisher fans are crying over Curry's bid, when they wouldn't get in anyway if there was a last minuete play in game added for the 33rd and 34th bid.

[Frank Rossi]

Lewdogg is dropping science on all of you.  Lots of post season whinning going on. LD nailed right on the head about Curry. Besides being in the NEFC, what did they do WRONG? Nothing, really. Lost to the conference champ that's it. That's how the NCAA rolls, and Gro knew Curry was getting in.

All the hartwick and fisher fans are crying over Curry's bid, when they wouldn't get in anyway if there was a last minuete play in game added for the 33rd and 34th bid.

Hartwick and Fisher officially were not in line to be #33 or #34.  According to Dr. Kaiser (archive available at http://blogtalkradio.com/LLRecap -- worth the listen), the four teams on the board after the 32nd selection were Cal. Lutheran (West), Wooster (North), Montclair (East) and  DePauw (South). 

My guess is that Rowan was next in the East based on Dr. Kaiser's reaction when I mentioned Hartwick (took him a minute to get his arms around their scenario).  Montclair has the biggest reason to beef at Curry's selection.  DePauw probably has almost as much reason. 

Cal. Lutheran wasn't bad, either -- although the travel issues their potential selection would've caused might have foreclosed their selection, I fear.

[pumkinattack]

Frank,

  That's being polite.  Dr. Kaiser didn't seem to know who Hartwick was. 

[Senor RedTackle]

That was RTs absolute humorour highlight from the show. When we had to tell Der Kaiser if 'Wick won or lost on Sat, that kind of answered the question on where they fit into the playoff discusssions.

RT remembered asking the hottest girl in HS to the prom...her response "you are a junior?".

Kind of brought back memories....

[labart96]

#23 Hobart (LL Champions) vs. Lycoming (MAC Champions)

This Saturday the #23 nationally ranked and Liberty League Champion Hobart Statesmen (8-1) will host the co-Champions of the Middle Atlantic Conference, the Lycoming Warriors (7-3) in the opening round of the NCAA play-offs.  Lycoming earned the MAC's Pool A qualifier by defeating fellow co-Champions, Delaware Valley (7-3) and Albright (7-3) in head-to-head competition.  This will be the first ever meeting between the two schools.

As of this preview, Hobart has not made a final decision as to whether the game will be held on Boswell Field - which took a beating during the rain soaked Rochester game - or the McCooey artificial turf field.  It may not make a difference since all the mud on the Boz will likely be frozen as the forecast for Saturday's game is a typical Upstate high of 32, low of 22, with a chance of snow.

Regardless of what field the game is played on, Hobart Football Coach Cragg is simply happy that the game will be in Geneva:

"Just knowing we're going to play here is a great feeling," Hobart coach Mike Cragg said in an interview with the Finger Lakes Times.  "We'll be able to have the same routine, the same practice schedule, the same pregame preparations.  I know the guys are very pumped to be playing at home.  They can't wait to get going."

Tale of the Tape:

Looking at statistics show that this is a very even match up.  A few key areas where I believe Hobart has a slight advantage include:

1.  Turnover Ratio:  The Statesmen defense has been opportunistic all season.  FY DB Drake Woodard is tied for fourth in the nation in interceptions with seven.  Woodard had a key pick-off in the Rochester game to set up Hobart's game winning drive.  Team-mate and SR FS Lance Boyington has tallied five interceptions as well, so facing a Lycoming offense that has thrown 19 INTs on the season favors the Statesmen.
2.  Time of Possession:  The best defense is often simply keeping the other team's offense on the sideline.  Hobart lost the TOP battle to Rochester, especially in the first half, last week and it almost cost them their fifth consecutive NCAA play-off berth.  A key match up will Hobart's OL vs. the Lyco DL.  The Warriors boast a stingy 108.6 yards per game rushing defense.  Leading rusher SR RB Anthony Hobaica is out with an injury and SO RB Andrew Marlier only averages about 48 yards rushing a game.  Add in potentially bad weather, and the Statesmen will need to be creative in their offensive play calls to move the chains and control the clock.
3.  Big Plays:  The Hobart defense returned a blocked punt for a touchdown and blocked a field goal against Rensselaer.  The Statesmen had two interceptions and fumble recoveries against Rochester.  With the game deadlocked in the fourth quarter, SR QB Rich Doyle completed a 22 yard pass completion to JR WR Tyler Vincent.  FY PK Conor Callahan has kicked two consecutive field goals with games on the line.  These are simply recent examples of the kind of performances Hobart will need to continue if they hope to knock off Lycoming on Saturday.  The Warriors are no strangers to big plays either - note they have accumulated 30 sacks on defense over 10 games.  They almost upset #12 Ithaca in the first game of the season and successfully upset (in a similar mud bowl game like the one Rochester and Hobart just played) a then #22 Delaware Valley team.  It's stating the obvious, but in the end, it will be the team that does the best job protecting the football and coming up big with the game on the line.

Key Team Stats   Lyco      Hobart
Scoring   22.3   PPG   23.6
Total Offense   341.5   YPG   318.3
Rushing Offense   132.5   YPG   129.1
Passing Offense   208.9   YPG   189.2
Turnover Ratio   Minus 9   TOR   Plus 4
Time of Possession   28:51:00   TOP   31:43:00
3rd Down Conversions   42   %   39
TDs Scored   28   #   28
Red Zone Scoring   73   %   69
FG percentage   58.8   %   54.5
Penalties/Game   53.1   YPG   42.1
Rushing Defense   108.6   YPG   142.9
Passing Defense   181.4   YPG   132.8
Red Zone Defense   81   %   74
Sacks For   30   #   14
Sacks Against   17   #   12

A Closer Look at the Warriors

Lycoming is lead on offense by JR QB Colin Dwyer (1845 total passing yards on 153 completions out of 283 attempts, 12 passing TDs and 16 interceptions) and SO RB Josh Kleinfelter (1074 net yards rushing on 217 attempts with 11 rushing TDs).  Kleinfelter is also the third leading receiver for the Warriors, collecting 27 receptions for 312 yards on the year.  Dwyer's favorite targets are the tandem of SO WR Ryan Wagaman (534 receiving yards and 4 TDs) and JR WR Brad Shellenberger (618 receiving yards - including a 98 yarder - and 5 TDs).

On defense, the Warriors are paced by SO LB Ben Rosa (80 total tackles and three sacks).  Ben's older brother, JR RB Mark, is the back up to Kleinfelter gaining 127 yards on 33 carries on the season.  SO FS Chuck Bellitto is second on the team with 79 total tackles and one interception.

Based on their final regular season roster against Lebannon Valley, here's the projected line-up for the Warriors:

Lycoming Offense
WR 2 Brad Shellenberger
TE 82 Jim Stevenson
LT 76 Pat Taylor
LG 67 Dave Nocera
C 72 Andy Marino
RG 68 Nathan Schrack
RT 75 Matt Landseidel
WR 9 Ryan Wagaman
QB 11 Colin Dwyer
FB 20 Ryan Godec
TB 31 Josh Kleinfelter

Lycoming Defense
DE 6 Kyle Murren
DT 73 Ted Geurds
DT 56 Chris Tribanas
DE 45 Matt Licci
LB 35 Chris Smith
LB 32 T.J. Doyle
LB 34 Ben Rosa
CB 10 Scott Kish
CB 21 Jim Daley
S 3 Chuck Bellitto
SS 15 Nick Reese

The full roster can be reviewed at:

http://www.lycoming.edu/athletics/Football/2008/08Roster.htm

Brass Tax

TGP will go out on a limb and pick Hobart to win this one 13-10.  Although both offenses average more than 20 points a game, TGP believes the cold weather and turnovers will keep this game a defensive struggle.  The home field - especially if it is in fact played on Boswell - favors Hobart, who are 3-1 in NCAA first round games in Geneva at the Boz.  The last time Hobart hosted a first round NCAA game (in 2005) they edged Cortland State 23-22.  The Statesmen have a knack for winning close games - including last week's win over Rochester, Hobart is 15-5 in games decided by eight points or less since the start of the 2004 season.  More than half of the Statesmen's games this year have been close calls and Hobart is 5-1 in these contests.

The winner of this game will face the winner of the Randolf-Macon and Mount Union contest.  According to Coach Cragg:

"It's always been a dream of mine to get a chance to play Mount Union," Cragg said. "It's exciting to know that they're just around the corner, but, obviously, our first priority is getting ready for Lycoming."

Exactly.  First things, first.  Looking ahead to potentially playing the one of the greatest dynasties in D3 football is a sure recipe for disaster.  Hopefully Hobart will stay focused and send the Boz mud turf into retirement with a home play-off win.

GO BART!

['gro]

Honorary LLPP Membership as been granted to: Mike Singletary


_{Don't You Hate Pants?}

[dlippiel]

Honorary LLPP Membership as been granted to: Mike Singletary


_{Don't You Hate Pants?}

Absolutely that is one tough MF and he could clearly cause a ruckus on this or any other board. Whether he did it with pants on or off is another story.

[bman]

TGP

Great analysis...but you neglected to mention 1 additional factor...the ugly uniform factor...

Bman's guess is that having to look at those pumpkinish things for 3 hours is at least good for 3 additional points per game....

[PBR...]

pbr is exhausted....espn rolling into 12th consecutive  hour of college hoops....if your a college hoop junkie this is your calling...unc spanking kentucky right now...