World Cup and European leagues

[jknezek]

" This decision changes all of that. Belgium, and 90% of the world, is going to want to beat the "cheaters." 

As if that wasn't already the case, come on. Nobody besides Americans have wanted us to win, and that's always been the situation, especially this World Cup.

Again, its not about that. It's about a Belgium team that had every reason to look past this game, at least a bit, and now doesn't. You may not believe in that, but a lot of people do. It happens in every sport, every time. This was a quintessential trap game for Belgium. Now it's a lot less of one in my opinion.

[stlawus]

" This decision changes all of that. Belgium, and 90% of the world, is going to want to beat the "cheaters." 

As if that wasn't already the case, come on. Nobody besides Americans have wanted us to win, and that's always been the situation, especially this World Cup.

Again, its not about that. It's about a Belgium team that had every reason to look past this game, at least a bit, and now doesn't. You may not believe in that, but a lot of people do. It happens in every sport, every time. This was a quintessential trap game for Belgium. Now it's a lot less of one in my opinion.

Same thing was said about Australia.  All we heard for 6 months was noise about them having "extra motivation".  It's the world cup knockout round, everyone is motivated.  And all the outside noise about external motivational factors goes away the second the ball is kicked off and the game starts.   

[Ejay]

I was coaching a u12 team in a tournament several years ago and my player scored a goal after the ball had clearly crossed the end line but went unnoticed by the ref.  We'd always taught our kids to "play until you hear the whistle" so that's what my player did. But I saw it go out, the opposing coach saw it go out (and lost his **** when play continued), the parents saw it go out (and lost their **** when play continued), and the defense saw it go out (and stopped defending). 

I couldn't in good conscience accept this as a good goal and told the ref I agreed with the opposing coach and defense and that it should be a goal kick instead of a goal. He agreed to waive the goal off. My goal scorer burst into tears (sigh).

I don't expect the USA to sit Balogun, but I would love if they did and publicly announced it was because they had integrity and respected the game.

[WUPHF]

As if that wasn't already the case, come on. Nobody besides Americans have wanted us to win, and that's always been the situation, especially this World Cup.

Facts!

In the end, the scandal is that there was not a proper appeal process that everyone more or less agreed was fair, but maybe that will change after this ordeal.  And the World Cup will be better for it.

[stlawus]

I was coaching a u12 team in a tournament several years ago and my player scored a goal after the ball had clearly crossed the end line but went unnoticed by the ref.  We'd always taught our kids to "play until you hear the whistle" so that's what my player did. But I saw it go out, the opposing coach saw it go out (and lost his **** when play continued), the parents saw it go out (and lost their **** when play continued), and the defense saw it go out (and stopped defending). 

I couldn't in good conscience accept this as a good goal and told the ref I agreed with the opposing coach and defense and that it should be a goal kick instead of a goal. He agreed to waive the goal off. My goal scorer burst into tears (sigh).

I don't expect the USA to sit Balogun, but I would love if they did and publicly announced it was because they had integrity and respected the game.

Did that game have VAR where the original call was no goal and then said it was a goal after review? Because if not then it's not analogous.

If the officials had integrity he would have never been carded in the first place. You don't get points for ceding the faux moral high ground.

This is partly why it's been hard for the sport to take off in the more mainstream in this country. Process over outcome is still the obsession. All because a lot of people want to be pat on the head from someone 3000 miles away.

[SierraFD3soccer]

That's a wrap. USMNT now has to go away for another 12 years back into irrelevancy unless we can find some more foreign born players who have shoestring relations to the US. Fortunately, 48 teams now qualify. So that is something.

Ponch ain't coming back, imo. Apparently, he was offered an extension and he passed until after the tournament. Unless he just loves to coach in the US and get beaten down by middle talented soccer teams, he isn't coming back.

Saw the perfect analogy. USMNT = James Franklin Penn St teams i.e. can beat up on lower ranked teams but fold against a top 20 team.

Half the goals were scored by a German who has an American service man for a father and the other is a Nigerian whose mom gave birth to him in the US and was raised in England. Also, USMNT goalkeepers?? Used to be our strength. Had at least 2 or 3 playing in high level leagues. Not so much now. Pulisic was just a shadow and I feel sorry for him with all the hype.

[jknezek]

Well that was a whooping. Unfortunate end. But coming in to the World Cup, I said I'd be happy with a Sweet 16 birth, so I'll be happy with that. It's really where the U.S. is at. We are a top 20 ish type team. We were badly exposed last night. Coming in to the tournament there were concerns about the backline and the goalkeeper. Last night there were major issues with the backline and the goalkeeper.

We had some good offensive spells, just didn't make the last pass or the shot at the right time. Pulisic was awful. Ream showed his age. There's talent on the field, but still not enough to play with the big boys.

I agree Poch will be gone. That's ok. I'm not a fan of managers having more than one World Cup run. It just doesn't seem to work out. The players start tuning him out or something. We will have some gaps to fill, but goalie needs sorting.

Really is a position we've always had in spades, but right now the cupboard seems bare. Going to have to do something with the defense. But I'll say this for the midfield and front line, this World Cup was the most creative, possessive and effective offensive effort I've seen from the U.S. We weren't just counterpunching, we were playing soccer. Now we need the defense that can hold it's own while the offense is able to push forward.

[blue_jays]

Considering how handily Belgium beat the U.S. earlier this year (5-2), I was feeling pessimistic about America's chances. The 4-1 scoreline makes total sense. The U.S. can't handle top competition, they get exposed every time. They beat who they're supposed to beat, and it ends there. We are not a serious soccer nation, and frankly never will be. Our nation's best athletes are drawn to the flashy pro sports (football/basketball), we just don't value soccer like the rest of the world does.
And at the end of the day, that's OK. The U.S. has other sporting priorities, can't be the best at everything. They'll stay a middle-of-the-pack team, with an occasional run at random tournaments, build up some hype, then come up short. Rinse and repeat. But a World Cup title? Never gonna happen.

[Hopkins92]

So as not to be redundant, because I agree with most of what has been said... It wasn't just Pulisic who played poorly last night. Jedi and Dest both lost the ball incredibly easily, which resulted in Dest getting subbed out at the half. Weston lost the ball far too many times trying to be too cute with the ball. Even Balogun, who I thought put in a decent amount of effort tried 2 or 3 backheel passes where that just wasn't the right play.

And, yes, as mentioned, when you rely on a 40-year-old MLSer to captain your backline, you are asking for trouble. We got away with it against lesser opponents, but got exposed last night. (And it's not just that he made mistakes that led to goals, Adams had to cover for him and that messed up our ability to move the ball through the midfield.)

I'm to the point in life where I really don't care about growing the game. If a bunch of random folks tuned in last night to watch that and came away disappointed, whatever. But as someone who has followed this team for over 35 years, it's tough not to feel pretty disheartened. Hopefully, there's a wave of youngsters coming through, because this lot can't beat a premium side.

[stlawus]

Netherlands and Germany didn't make it further than the round of 32. Brazil and Portugal got as far as the round of 16. All were considered World Cup contenders. Can say it was a disappointing finish last night since it was, but you'd think we finished in last place going off some of reactions.

[blue_jays]

Netherlands and Germany didn't make it further than the round of 32. Brazil and Portugal got as far as the round of 16. All were considered World Cup contenders. Can say it was a disappointing finish last night since it was, but you'd think we finished in last place going off some of reactions.

If you mean the general public reaction, they only pay attention to soccer every 4 years. Social media's cottage industry is overreactions. It's a very "if you're not first, you're last" kind of mindset.

What the other soccer powers did in comparison to the U.S. doesn't really matter. Moral victories of "at least we made it farther than them" don't exist. Those countries can have their own existential crises for the next couple years until qualifying comes back around. The U.S. is now back in their familiar position of "shouldn't we be better than this?" And the answer is both yes, and no.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

E1 Germany      1(3) 
                     | Paraguay  0 
D3 Paraguay     1(4) |             |
I1 France        3                 | France     
                     | France    1 |            |
F3 Sweden        0   |                          |
A2 South Africa  0                              |    
                     | Canada    0              |    |
B2 Canada        1   |             |            |    |
F1 Netherlands  1(2)               | Morocco    |
                     | Morocco   3 |
C2 Morocco      1(3) |


K2 Portugal      2   
                     | Portugal  0 
L2 Croatia       1   |             |
H1 Spain         3                 | Spain      
                     | Spain     1 |            |
J2 Austria       0   |                          |    |
D1 United States 2                              |    |         
                     | USA       1              |
B3 Bos & Herz    0   |             |            |
G1 Belgium       3                 | Belgium    |
               a.e.t | Belgium   4 |
I3 Senegal       2   |


C1 Brazil        2   
                     | Brazil    1 
F2 Japan         1   |             |
E2 Cote D'Ivoire 1                 | Norway     
                     | Norway    2 |            |
I2 Norway        2   |                          |
A1 Mexico        2                              |    
                     | Mexico    2              |    |
E3 Ecuador       0   |             |            |    |
L1 England       2                 | England    |
                     | England   3 |
K3 DR Congo      1   |


J1 Argentina     3   
               a.e.t | Argentina 3 
H2 Cabo Verde    2   |             |
D2 Australia    1(2)               | Argentina  
                     | Egypt     2 |            |
G2 Egypt        1(4) |                          |    |
B1 Switzerland   2                              |    |         
                     | Swiss    0(4)            |
J3 Algeria       0   |              |           |
K1 Colombia      1                  | Swiss     |
                     | Colombia 0(3)|
L3 Ghana         0   |




                         QF/R16/R32/Total
UEFA:                  6/ 7/13/16 (Portugal eliminated)
CONMEBOL: 1/ 4/ 5/ 6 (Brazil, Colombia, Paraguay)
CAF:                    1/ 2/ 9/10 (Egypt)
CONCACAF: 0/ 3/ 3/ 6 (Canada, Mexico, USA)
AFC:                    0/ 0/ 2/ 9 (N/A)
OFC:                   0/ 0/ 0/ 1 (N/A)


Rankings of the remaining matches
1v19; 2v9; 3v7; 4v31

#3 France have beaten 15 Senegal 3-1, 57 Iraq 3-0, 31 Norway 4-1, 38 Sweden 3-0, 41 Paraguay 1-0
#7 Morocco have faced 6 Brazil 1-1, 42 Scotland 1-0, 83 Haiti 4-2, 8 Netherlands 1-1 (p), 30 Canada 3-0

#2 Spain have played 67 Cape Verde 0-0. 61 Saudi Arabia 4-0, 16 Uruguay 1-0. 24 Austria 3-0, 5 Portugal 1-0
#9 Belgium have faced 29 Egypt 1-1, 20 Iran 0-0, 85 New Zealand 5-1, 15 Senegal 3-2 (aet), 17 USA 4-1

#31 Norway played 57 Iraq 4-1, 15 Senegal 3-2, 3 France 1-4, 33 Ivory Coast 2-1, 6 Brazil 2-1
#4 England faced 11 Croatia 4-2, 73 Ghana 0-0, 34 Panama 2-0, 46 DR Congo 2-1, 14 Mexico 3-2

#1 Argentina have beaten 28 Algeria 3-0, 24 Austria 2-0, 63 Jordan 3-1, 67 Cape Verde 3-2 (aet), 29 Egypt 3-2
#19 Switzerland have played 56 Qatar 1-1, 64 B&H 4-1, 30 Canada 2-1, 28 Algeria 2-0, 13 Colombia 0-0 (p)


Only France and Argentina have won every game while Norway is the only remaining team to have a loss.
We've lost one continent in every round which means between Argentina and Morocco one will win and one will lose in the quarterfinals.

[jknezek]

Ok. Being honest and looking at the final 8. When you looked at the Rd of 32 and the matchups, the only team I'm surprised about is Norway. Netherlands/Morocco might be second, but Morocco has been solid for a couple cycles now. This is their second deep trip in a row. Switz/Columbia is close with no clear favorite for me. Overall though, when you look at each 4 team pod from the round of 32, the best team in that pod, in 7 of 8 pods in my opinion, is through.

Someone might point to Germany, but France is simply better right now, so even had they gotten past Paraguay, I don't think they are still standing. Netherlands I think would have gone through if they got past Morocco, but again, Morocco is having a golden generation right now.

Norway is the big surprise. I think they were the 3rd, maybe even 4th, best team in that pod if you played it 100x, but when you have a striker like Haaland, lots of doors open quickly.

[SierraFD3soccer]

A lot of truth here -

https://x.com/TheSammahmood_/status/2074434672201785728?s=20

[blue_jays]

A lot of truth here -

https://x.com/TheSammahmood_/status/2074434672201785728?s=20

It's a spot-on post. A broken system produces broken results. The U.S. has commodified every sport to the nth degree, and it's hurting athlete development across the board. Look no further than the AAU culture that everyone buys into. With all the advances in training and technology, you see better athletes with middling/worse results in almost every sport, which shouldn't happen. When the old heads complain that the players aren't as good as they used to be, they're not far off. Our sporting culture has been emphasizing the wrong things for too many years, and it hurts the product/players. The examples in pro basketball, football and baseball are too numerous to get into. It's systemic.