FB: Old Dominion Athletic Conference

[miz]

I'd say it would be real difficult and a lot of other stronger Pool C contenders would have to lose some games.  Hell, I guess the way it stands now Mt. Union is a "Pool C" team.

[hasanova]

To all the BC, W&L and HS-C folks playing the "what if" game with the rest of the season:  don't assume GC, CUA, RMC and even E&H are just going to roll over & play dead.  There is a lot of good, competitive football to go.  I'll concede some of these teams are stronger on paper, but everyone else wants to win, are playing good ball and would love nothing better than to upset some apple carts!

[Hug]

Here's my take on the Heisman thing. A vote for Marcus Washington is a vote for a Division III player. A vote for Brett Elliott is a vote for a Division I player, who has decided to drop down to play Division III.

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

If D-3 had a Heisman and if it had coverage to the point where the entire "D-3 world" knew and recognized the top players in the country beyond the stats then Marcus would be just as viable a candidate as Elliot for the award.  He's the Reggie Bush of D-3 and is statistically having a strikingly similar season to what Bush is having at USC.  If the BC offense was designed to allow him to lead the nation in rushing or whatever, he would.  He's one of the two most impressive offensive players I've seen in 12 years of watching and playing D-3 football (the other being Roy Hampton). 
[...]

Obviously I'm aware that one plays DI-A and the other DIII, but it's still a fun statistical comparison!

Reggie Bush (USC RB) 7 games 94 rushes 812 rushing yards 8.6 yards per carry 10 rushing TDs 19 receptions 244 receiving yards 2 receiving TDs 1 punt return TD

Marcus Washington (BC RB) 6 games 82 rushes 621 rushing yards 7.6 yards per carry 13 rushing TDs 9 receptions 147 receiving yards 2 receiving TDs 1 kickoff return TD 3 passing TDs

[Outsider14]

Any thoughts on Hampden-Sydney's chances for an NCAA bid if:

• The Tigers win out, giving Johns Hopkins (which finishes 9-1 and is an NCAA participant as conference champion) their only loss of the season, and finishing with an 8-2 in-region record
• The Eagles defeat the Generals, Yellow Jackets, and Cardinals to finish with a 6-0 conference record, 7-1 in-region record, 8-1 overall record and the Generals win their last two to finish 4-2 conference, 5-3 in-region, 7-3 overall

nope

as for the heisman thing, this is my take (and i know a lot of you will look at it from a I-A standpoint, but i'm still a small college guy; always have been): i understand making a push for D3 and getting the point across that D3 can be very competitive football, and that we do have players out there in the nfl and that can hang w/ the best of them. but how many of you actually believe elliott and washington are better football players than leinart bush peterson young vick...etc? granted, elliott has great numbers and i've never seen him play, but his numbers this year are against D3 teams, and i can gaurantee you he's not going against Notre Dame caliber players week in and week out. i've seen marcus play, and i love the kid--don't get me wrong--he's extremely valuable to bridgewater's football team... but he's no reggie bush. my point is not that these kids aren't good; they obviously are very talented football players, but, i've said it before and i'll say it again: D3 competition is not D2 is not scholarship DIAA is not DI-A... there's quite a jump in competition levels between each of those divisions; i've seen it first hand (recruiting, practicing, games). in comparison, voting for these guys is like voting bill kyger for president (except for the whole running the country thing and all)...

[algernon]

To all the BC, W&L and HS-C folks playing the "what if" game with the rest of the season:  don't assume GC, CUA, RMC and even E&H are just going to roll over & play dead.  There is a lot of good, competitive football to go.  I'll concede some of these teams are stronger on paper, but everyone else wants to win, are playing good ball and would love nothing better than to upset some apple carts!

No question about it.  In fact, Hampden-Sydney beat CUA by only 7 points and could have a real tough game in Ashland, Guilford beat Washington & Lee and the Generals could end up losing to both the Eagles and Wasps and finish 3-3 in the ODAC, and Bridgewater is far from the 6-0 ODAC record they'd like to have, with upcoming games against W&L, RMC, and Catholic.

This year, ODAC games have been close and they could certainly go either way for the rest of the season.  In fact, how many ODAC games this season have been won by 20+ points?

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

[...]
If we truly are trying to put Division III first, and not just our own parochial interests, I think every vote for a Division III football player is a vote for Division III. 

Good point.  I see 1111 Elliott votes and 64 Washington votes as 1175 Division III votes.  Just like 2715 Reggie Bush votes and 708 Matt Leinart votes are 3423 USC votes.

But I do understand where Pat is coming from.  Even though USC wouldn't keep either Bush or Leinart from being on the ballot, Division III is in a totally different position.  USC is "on the map" (obviously), while Division III football is only "known" inside our little D3football.com and Post Patterns world.

But I don't think (like Mizzou mentioned) the most of the votes for Washington would have necessarily gone to Elliott, especially if the local media catches wind of this and the Bridgewater campus gets behind Marcus.

Here's my take on the Heisman thing. A vote for Marcus Washington is a vote for a Division III player. A vote for Brett Elliott is a vote for a Division I player, who has decided to drop down to play Division III.

Also a good point, although Bridgewater had "one of those players" in Davon Cruz (went to WVU, got injured).  The Elliott and Cruz stories are just as good as the Washington ones.  Elliott and Cruz didn't get a full shot at a career on the Division I-A level, neither did Washington.

[miz]

If D-3 had a Heisman and if it had coverage to the point where the entire "D-3 world" knew and recognized the top players in the country beyond the stats then Marcus would be just as viable a candidate as Elliot for the award.  He's the Reggie Bush of D-3 and is statistically having a strikingly similar season to what Bush is having at USC.  If the BC offense was designed to allow him to lead the nation in rushing or whatever, he would.  He's one of the two most impressive offensive players I've seen in 12 years of watching and playing D-3 football (the other being Roy Hampton). 
[...]

Obviously I'm aware that one plays DI-A and the other DIII, but it's still a fun statistical comparison!

Reggie Bush (USC RB) 7 games 94 rushes 812 rushing yards 8.6 yards per carry 10 rushing TDs 19 receptions 244 receiving yards 2 receiving TDs 1 punt return TD

Marcus Washington (BC RB) 6 games 82 rushes 621 rushing yards 7.6 yards per carry 13 rushing TDs 9 receptions 147 receiving yards 2 receiving TDs 1 kickoff return TD 3 passing TDs

Kid, I just knew when I threw that out there that you would pick me up with the actual statistical comparison.  You are a machine. 

[Outsider14]

Elliott and Cruz didn't get a full shot at a career on the Division I-A level, neither did Washington.

elliott started half a season (sophomore) then began his junior year as a starter and got hurt and quit when he got beat out by a great QB... how much of a shot is needed to be considered full? and davon got hurt his senior year of high school, before going to wvu right? (i'm asking)...

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

[...] how much of a shot is needed to be considered full? and davon got hurt his senior year of high school, before going to wvu right? (i'm asking)...

Not having a season-ending injury type of shot.

And yes, Cruz never actually made it to the WVU campus.

[hasanova]

To all the BC, W&L and HS-C folks playing the "what if" game with the rest of the season:  don't assume GC, CUA, RMC and even E&H are just going to roll over & play dead.  There is a lot of good, competitive football to go.  I'll concede some of these teams are stronger on paper, but everyone else wants to win, are playing good ball and would love nothing better than to upset some apple carts!

No question about it.  In fact, Hampden-Sydney beat CUA by only 7 points and could have a real tough game in Ashland, Guilford beat Washington & Lee and the Generals could end up losing to both the Eagles and Wasps and finish 3-3 in the ODAC, and Bridgewater is far from the 6-0 ODAC record they'd like to have, with upcoming games against W&L, RMC, and Catholic.

This year, ODAC games have been close and they could certainly go either way for the rest of the season.  In fact, how many ODAC games this season have been won by 20+ points?

algernon - good to see you online - we chatted some in the "hoops" forum last winter.  Here's a mathematical possibility (I didn't say probability, folks) that's interesting:

BC defeats RMC, but loses to W&L & CUA, 4-2 ODAC
W&L defeats BC, but loses to E&H, 4-2 ODAC
GC wins out vs RMC, CUA & E&H, 4-2 ODAC
HSC defeat RMC, 4-2 ODAC

Wild, isn't it?  ... but it is a possible scenario.  I wouldn't hold my breath, but I, for one, would pay to see it happen!  lol

[Matt Barnhart (kid)]

as for the heisman thing, this is my take (and i know a lot of you will look at it from a I-A standpoint, but i'm still a small college guy; always have been): i understand making a push for D3 and getting the point across that D3 can be very competitive football, and that we do have players out there in the nfl and that can hang w/ the best of them. but how many of you actually believe elliott and washington are better football players than leinart bush peterson young vick...etc? granted, elliott has great numbers and i've never seen him play, but his numbers this year are against D3 teams, and i can gaurantee you he's not going against Notre Dame caliber players week in and week out. i've seen marcus play, and i love the kid--don't get me wrong--he's extremely valuable to bridgewater's football team... but he's no reggie bush. my point is not that these kids aren't good; they obviously are very talented football players, but, i've said it before and i'll say it again: D3 competition is not D2 is not scholarship DIAA is not DI-A... there's quite a jump in competition levels between each of those divisions; i've seen it first hand (recruiting, practicing, games). in comparison, voting for these guys is like voting bill kyger for president (except for the whole running the country thing and all)...

Umm, I don't think any disagrees with you.  These "vote for Elliott" and "vote for Washington" campaigns are to get Division III recognition outside our Division III world.  Pretty sure no one voting for either player actually thinks they are better than a Vince Young or Reggie Bush.

Think about it ... all we are hoping for are people from outside Division III to look at an Elliott or Washington and getting them to simply think "wow, those are some impressive numbers/accolades" no matter what division they play in.  That's all, nothing more.

[algernon]

algernon - good to see you online - we chatted some in the "hoops" forum last winter.  Here's a mathematical possibility (I didn't say probability, folks) that's interesting:

BC defeats RMC, but loses to W&L & CUA, 4-2 ODAC
W&L defeats BC, but loses to E&H, 4-2 ODAC
GC wins out vs RMC, CUA & E&H, 4-2 ODAC
HSC defeat RMC, 4-2 ODAC

Such an outcome would be fun ... and the head-to-head standings would be:
BC  2-1
W&L  2-1
GC   1-2
HSC   1-2

W&L goes to the NCAAs (longest draught).

[pakownr97]

Maybe this should be posted on Llama's playoff board but I'm gonna post it here anyway.

It looks next to impossible for Bridgewater to host a first round playoff game.  At first, I thought it was because we lost to McDaniel.

But the way I see it, BC would be ranked slightly below Ferrum even if we had beaten McDaniel.  So we wouldn't host a game even if BC had gone 9-0.  Wow!

So my question is, assuming the above is correct (Llama or Kid could probably run our QOWI with a win over McDs) should BC try to schedule a tougher opponent to replace McD? 

With the Centennial Conf going to 9 teams next year, I have a feeling McDaniel will drop BC, leaving us to fill that void.

How about a BC/Rowan rematch?

Do out of region games count in the QOWI, assuming BC wins?

Sorry for the rambling post, but I thought of these things while I was posting.
   

[GCOL]

I think not only is the push for Elliot and Washington will help get D3 recognized, but maybe it will help to aid both players and future players looking to go pro by getting them more looks from scouts.  I could help open a profesonal eye to the D3 world.  There is no reason they shouldn't atleast be mentioned, because they are both obvious assets to their teams.