Same Site for Championship Weekend: Let's Do It!

[NCF]

I live in Wisconsin.  When Stevens Point went to the Final Four three  :)The 1st one, I picked up diehardfan on the way there.  I then left after Saturday's championship game, which was at 6 pm (I think) at the time, and drove back that night (left around 9:30 with Swampgoon, diehardfan stuck around) so I could get back on time for...SOCCER on Sunday (indoor league).  The 2nd one I rode with friends, so that was easy and the 3rd one, I convinced my pregnant wife to sit in a car for 15 hours.

.....and how much did you have to do for her when you got back?

[Knightstalker]

I live in Wisconsin.  When Stevens Point went to the Final Four three  :)The 1st one, I picked up diehardfan on the way there.  I then left after Saturday's championship game, which was at 6 pm (I think) at the time, and drove back that night (left around 9:30 with Swampgoon, diehardfan stuck around) so I could get back on time for...SOCCER on Sunday (indoor league).  The 2nd one I rode with friends, so that was easy and the 3rd one, I convinced my pregnant wife to sit in a car for 15 hours.

.....and how much did you have to do for her when you got back?

He is probably still paying for that one.

[NCF]

I live in Wisconsin.  When Stevens Point went to the Final Four three  :)The 1st one, I picked up diehardfan on the way there.  I then left after Saturday's championship game, which was at 6 pm (I think) at the time, and drove back that night (left around 9:30 with Swampgoon, diehardfan stuck around) so I could get back on time for...SOCCER on Sunday (indoor league).  The 2nd one I rode with friends, so that was easy and the 3rd one, I convinced my pregnant wife to sit in a car for 15 hours.

.....and how much did you have to do for her when you got back?

He is probably still paying for that one.

Yep...Big Time

[Pat Coleman]

Crazy idea:

Women's Semifinals in Holland, MI on Friday
Men's Semifinals in Grand Rapids, MI on Friday
All Star Game + Women's Final + Men's Final in Grand Rapids, MI on Saturday.

'Traveling' for the Women between the two venues wouldn't be ideal, but it would be a way to allow one big championship event without really screwing anyone over.

If you were going to double up on venues, something I thought about, there's probably better locales to do it - larger cities with a number of big enough facilities.  D1 doesn't use gyms as small as d3 needs for their opening round, the only potential conflicts might be HS championships.

Philadelphia, for example, has the Palestra and also Temple's gym, which each seat about 8,000.  That's probably a little bigger than Salem, but have to be other cities with similar sets ups (Chicago, maybe).

Chicago would be a great site for the Final Four! Plenty to do around here. Easier access in and out as far as flying as well.

But it would be ignored by the local media, and that's not what D-III wants to do with one of its biggest championships.

[NCF]

Crazy idea:

Women's Semifinals in Holland, MI on Friday
Men's Semifinals in Grand Rapids, MI on Friday
All Star Game + Women's Final + Men's Final in Grand Rapids, MI on Saturday.

'Traveling' for the Women between the two venues wouldn't be ideal, but it would be a way to allow one big championship event without really screwing anyone over.

If you were going to double up on venues, something I thought about, there's probably better locales to do it - larger cities with a number of big enough facilities.  D1 doesn't use gyms as small as d3 needs for their opening round, the only potential conflicts might be HS championships.

Philadelphia, for example, has the Palestra and also Temple's gym, which each seat about 8,000.  That's probably a little bigger than Salem, but have to be other cities with similar sets ups (Chicago, maybe).

Chicago would be a great site for the Final Four! Plenty to do around here. Easier access in and out as far as flying as well.

But it would be ignored by the local media, and that's not what D-III wants to do with one of its biggest championships.

I'm so sure about that one anymore.

[gordonmann]

Imagine having the Division III Women's Basketball Final Four in Chicago on a day where at least four of the following happens:

* Chicago Bulls play or make a trade with the NCA trade deadline approaching
* Blackhawks play
* Cubs or Sox play a spring training game
* Bears sign or lose a free agent
* Illinois, DePaul or smaller local D-1 teams play in the NCAA tournament
* Other Division I NCAA men's basketball tournament games
* NBA trades involving other teams
* NFL free agent signings
* Random national sports story of the day: coach fired, hired, death of someone famous, etc.
* High school sports involving children of readers who live in the area year-round

Where would an event involving non-scholarship women's basketball teams from Massachusetts, Oregon, Minneapolis and Bloomington, Illinois fall in terms of prioritization for coverage?  If you were a newspaper editor trying to appeal to the broadest local audience possible, where would you send your limited resources? Any chance at all the women's tournament isn't the lowest priority, particularly if you switch the Illinois team with someone from Indiana or Texas?

You can do the same thing with most major metropolitans areas. Switch Chicago for Philadelphia and it's highly unlikely the local media here would want to spend much time covering the Division III women's final four at a time when the Eagles are making free agent news, the Flyers and Sixers are playing, the Phils have spring training and at least one Division I team is playing in the NCAA tournament (and several more in the NIT).  Maybe the event scores a mention in the local news section, several pages off the front.  And the TV sports departments which have a few minutes per news broadcast aren't sending anyone to that event.

As Pat said, that's not where the Division III membership wants their premier event to be relegated.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Imagine having the Division III Women's Basketball Final Four in Chicago on a day where at least four of the following happens:

* Chicago Bulls play or make a trade with the NCA trade deadline approaching
* Blackhawks play
* Cubs or Sox play a spring training game
* Bears sign or lose a free agent
* Illinois, DePaul or smaller local D-1 teams play in the NCAA tournament
* Other Division I NCAA men's basketball tournament games
* NBA trades involving other teams
* NFL free agent signings
* Random national sports story of the day: coach fired, hired, death of someone famous, etc.
* High school sports involving children of readers who live in the area year-round

Where would an event involving non-scholarship women's basketball teams from Massachusetts, Oregon, Minneapolis and Bloomington, Illinois fall in terms of prioritization for coverage?  If you were a newspaper editor trying to appeal to the broadest local audience possible, where would you send your limited resources? Any chance at all the women's tournament isn't the lowest priority, particularly if you switch the Illinois team with someone from Indiana or Texas?

You can do the same thing with most major metropolitans areas. Switch Chicago for Philadelphia and it's highly unlikely the local media here would want to spend much time covering the Division III women's final four at a time when the Eagles are making free agent news, the Flyers and Sixers are playing, the Phils have spring training and at least one Division I team is playing in the NCAA tournament (and several more in the NIT).  Maybe the event scores a mention in the local news section, several pages off the front.  And the TV sports departments which have a few minutes per news broadcast aren't sending anyone to that event.

As Pat said, that's not where the Division III membership wants their premier event to be relegated.

Maybe we should do Seattle.  They don't seem to have much going on in the professional ranks.

[Titan Q]

Imagine having the Division III Women's Basketball Final Four in Chicago on a day where at least four of the following happens:

* Chicago Bulls play or make a trade with the NCA trade deadline approaching
* Blackhawks play
* Cubs or Sox play a spring training game
* Bears sign or lose a free agent
* Illinois, DePaul or smaller local D-1 teams play in the NCAA tournament
* Other Division I NCAA men's basketball tournament games
* NBA trades involving other teams
* NFL free agent signings
* Random national sports story of the day: coach fired, hired, death of someone famous, etc.
* High school sports involving children of readers who live in the area year-round

Where would an event involving non-scholarship women's basketball teams from Massachusetts, Oregon, Minneapolis and Bloomington, Illinois fall in terms of prioritization for coverage?  If you were a newspaper editor trying to appeal to the broadest local audience possible, where would you send your limited resources? Any chance at all the women's tournament isn't the lowest priority, particularly if you switch the Illinois team with someone from Indiana or Texas?

You can do the same thing with most major metropolitans areas. Switch Chicago for Philadelphia and it's highly unlikely the local media here would want to spend much time covering the Division III women's final four at a time when the Eagles are making free agent news, the Flyers and Sixers are playing, the Phils have spring training and at least one Division I team is playing in the NCAA tournament (and several more in the NIT).  Maybe the event scores a mention in the local news section, several pages off the front.  And the TV sports departments which have a few minutes per news broadcast aren't sending anyone to that event.

As Pat said, that's not where the Division III membership wants their premier event to be relegated.

Maybe we should do Seattle.  They don't seem to have much going on in the professional ranks.

Lincoln, Nebraska!  Except for Huskers football season, we got nothin'!

[AO]

What's the advantage of having a little better local media coverage?  Is it about convincing more locals to come out to the game?  If so, wouldn't having the championship game in a larger metro area where more people could fly to or attend make up for that?  How many fans could Whitewater and IWU bring to Chicago versus Salem?

[sunny]

This is a great discussion.  A few random thoughts (all hypothetical based on a city actually wanting to host both) ...

1) Of all the college "team" sports, soccer is likely the most similar between men's and women's. Identical rules and the notion that the physical differences between the genders doesn't change the nature of the game all that much (the speed, perhaps, but not the general nature) helps; if you enjoy men's soccer played at a high level, then chances are you will enjoy women's as well.  Also the popularity of the USWNT probably has interest in men's v. women's soccer less unequal than in any other team sport in this county. Thus, it's no surprise the women's soccer teams and players don't feel "overshadowed" in their championship.

2) That said, weigh the idea of being "overshadowed" against the idea of being able to sell "combined" tickets.  I would think, all other things being equal, attendance at the women's championship game would get an uptick if played in the same location as the men's.  This happens in men's lacrosse by having the Division II and III championships played at the same site, and the day between, the Division I semifinals and championship. Last year's Division III men's lacrosse title game drew 18,000 fans; a number that would be hard-pressed to be replicated if they had their own championship site.  I don't think those guys minded being "overshadowed" by the Division I games.  Obviously, the example in question is different, because it's combining gender championships instead of division championships, so there is the subtext of not wanting to present women's sports as an afterthought, but clearly there could be some benefits from it as well from an attendance standpoint.

3) I agree with the notion of small/medium cities with their own local media being the ideal host sites.  In cities like Chicago or Philadelphia there is just SO much competition for entertainment or sporting interest.  Bringing an event like this to a small/medium city generates interest/awareness in that market of Division III and brings more local folks out to the games because there just aren't as many options there. Despite the kidding, Grand Rapids would seem to be a great suggestion - any others along those lines?

[sunny]

What's the advantage of having a little better local media coverage?  Is it about convincing more locals to come out to the game?  If so, wouldn't having the championship game in a larger metro area where more people could fly to or attend make up for that?  How many fans could Whitewater and IWU bring to Chicago versus Salem?

I think it'd be great to have this event someplace that really "wants" it.  There may be a venue in Chicago that says "sure, you can have your little party here," but IMHO, the best relationships are those that are mutually beneficial and the out-of-town people and dollars Division III title games can bring in will at least register on the radar of smaller cities.  In Chicago, would it even make a dent?

[Just Bill]

What's the advantage of having a little better local media coverage?  Is it about convincing more locals to come out to the game?  If so, wouldn't having the championship game in a larger metro area where more people could fly to or attend make up for that?  How many fans could Whitewater and IWU bring to Chicago versus Salem?

The advantage is created indirectly by the media coverage. It's in the total student-athlete experience. In small and medium cities, you are the "big show" and everyone in town knows it. Athletes walk into restuarants, show up at the hotel or visit the mall and people know why they are there and are excited to see them. Elementary schools adopt a team and create signs and banners for them. It gives D-III athletes a celebrity status feel that they almost never get in their careers. That just won't happen in a bigger city.

Your question is essentially is that feeling worth more than convenient flights? I don't know. Depends who you ask.

[NCF]

What's the advantage of having a little better local media coverage?  Is it about convincing more locals to come out to the game?  If so, wouldn't having the championship game in a larger metro area where more people could fly to or attend make up for that?  How many fans could Whitewater and IWU bring to Chicago versus Salem?

I completely agree with you on this. The easier it is to get in and out of an area the better. Besides, there is just so much to do here, that  you could make it a winter get-away week-end, and Chicago is all about getting more people to come here and spend $$$. If you want D3 major events to draw a bigger fan base, put them in a major market. At least try it (I know it will never happen-nice to dream though) and see what happens.

[AO]

What's the advantage of having a little better local media coverage?  Is it about convincing more locals to come out to the game?  If so, wouldn't having the championship game in a larger metro area where more people could fly to or attend make up for that?  How many fans could Whitewater and IWU bring to Chicago versus Salem?

The advantage is created indirectly by the media coverage. It's in the total student-athlete experience. In small and medium cities, you are the "big show" and everyone in town knows it. Athletes walk into restuarants, show up at the hotel or visit the mall and people know why they are there and are excited to see them. Elementary schools adopt a team and create signs and banners for them. It gives D-III athletes a celebrity status feel that they almost never get in their careers. That just won't happen in a bigger city.

Your question is essentially is that feeling worth more than convenient flights? I don't know. Depends who you ask.

Just because you aren't the only show in town doesn't mean that you can't get elementary school kids excited or hotels appreciative of your stay.  I've witnessed it myself with the D-1 FCS championship in the Dallas area.  Same weekend as the Cotton Bowl but the Dallas suburb of Frisco rolled out the red carpet and the elementary kids despite having no previous idea of the existence of the North Dakota State football team, nonetheless greatly appreciated a visit.

[cciwrabblerouser]

What's the advantage of having a little better local media coverage?  Is it about convincing more locals to come out to the game?  If so, wouldn't having the championship game in a larger metro area where more people could fly to or attend make up for that?  How many fans could Whitewater and IWU bring to Chicago versus Salem?

The advantage is created indirectly by the media coverage. It's in the total student-athlete experience. In small and medium cities, you are the "big show" and everyone in town knows it. Athletes walk into restuarants, show up at the hotel or visit the mall and people know why they are there and are excited to see them. Elementary schools adopt a team and create signs and banners for them. It gives D-III athletes a celebrity status feel that they almost never get in their careers. That just won't happen in a bigger city.

Your question is essentially is that feeling worth more than convenient flights? I don't know. Depends who you ask.

Here are some possibilities ...
Bloomington/Normal, IL (Illinois Wesleyan owns this area)
Holland/Grand Rapids, MI (Hope and Calvin)
Newport News/Norfolk, VA (Christopher Newport and Va. Wesleyan)
Harrisburg, PA (Elizabethtown, Lebanon Valley, Messiah, Dickinson, Gettysburg, PSU-Harrisburg, York)

... and this is just the tip of the iceberg!

I do understand the skepticism that some may have about lessening the experience.  many of the great soccer minds had the same concerns.  now, after about eight years of same-site championships and the experiences they've had in Greensboro, Disney World, and San Antonio, I would say that 99 percent of the soccer community -- including players and fans -- absolutely love the concept.