RUMOR: Some DI teams/conferences considering leaving NCAA for US Soccer

[SierraFD3soccer]

I'm curious how this would look in the colder regions of the US, especially at the D3 level. I'm in MN, and you generally can't play outdoor soccer from December-March here. Even April can be iffy some years. There are full-size domed fields available, but there are only a couple I know of (Augsburg and St. John's) that is owned and run by a D3 school. The rest of the schools in MN would have to find a way to rent space in a dome which is typically $300-$500/hr for a full field. Not to mention that many of these domes already have very high demand between youth club sports and community activities. The cost alone would be pretty prohibitive for a lot of these D3 schools that are already spreading their athletic budgets pretty thin.

Not sure that this would extend to D3, which I am pretty sure it won't. D1 has previously proposed for D1 was playing half a season in the fall with one game or so a week and then the rest of the season in the spring with d1 playoffs in the spring. This is old. https://povichcenter.umd.edu/sasho-cirovski-continues-to-look-towards-the-future/

[Kuiper]

US Soccer's Next Gen College Soccer Committee has released its white paper with recommendations for reforming DI college soccer.

Nothing on DIII, which some had suggested would be part of the larger recommendations, but the committee did provide this statement about applying some recommendations to all divisions:

While the focus of the Committee's scope was Division I soccer, we believe that many of these recommendations can be adapted for the benefit of the tens of thousands of additional men's and women's players who compete in other college leagues/divisions.

The major specific recommendation is that men's college soccer adopt a regionalized, two-tier competitive structure and a full academic year calendar and some opportunities for promotion-relegation between tiers (sounds like I-A and I-AA from the old football classifications).

A couple of specific recommendations (or recommendations for more study) that caught my eye and how they could possibly apply in DIII:

College soccer eligibility rules should be modernized to reflect today's environment and build more
integrated pathways with domestic professional leagues. 

They suggest the possibility of permitting players who have signed rights agreements with pro teams or had gone the professional route to restart in college after their careers have stalled.  I don't think many of these types of players are going to end up in DIII (although you never know, especially after injury or a change in their academic or career aspirations), but any increase in DI eligibility would reduce roster options for graduating high school players, which might increase the pool of players interested in DIII.

Participation by players over the age of 23 should be scrutinized, while international
participation should be supported

They justify that in terms of the U23 classification for international tournaments such as the Olympics and also suggest the possibility of capping overage players or allowing limited exceptions for injuries etc.  I don't know that this is a significant issue in DIII (Emory's 24 year-old Ignacio Cubeddu aside) or one that DIII schools would want to restrict, but, as with the eligibility rules for former pro players, anything that restricts the pool at DI could mean those players look elsewhere, like DII or DIII.

[Freddyfud]

This just seems like endless competing interests.  US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems.  One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though.  The students.

Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today?  All while knowing they will earn a degree?

[Newenglander]

This just seems like endless competing interests.  US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems.  One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though.  The students.

Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today?  All while knowing they will earn a degree?

Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......

[VASoccerDad]

This just seems like endless competing interests.  US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems.  One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though.  The students.

Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today?  All while knowing they will earn a degree?

Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......

Most clubs are done over summer unless they are in playoffs. USL2 and s definitely the route to go- my son played on a USL2 last summer as a  rising HS senior so most D1, 2 and 3 players should be able to find spots relatively easily.

[Newenglander]

This just seems like endless competing interests.  US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems.  One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though.  The students.

Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today?  All while knowing they will earn a degree?

Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......

Most clubs are done over summer unless they are in playoffs. USL2 and s definitely the route to go- my son played on a USL2 last summer as a  rising HS senior so most D1, 2 and 3 players should be able to find spots relatively easily.

maybe regional but USL2 rosters and playing time vs USLA and USL2 reserve teams are completely different things in the NY/NJ area.....

[Freddyfud]

Many regional youth clubs have USL2 teams featuring college players from all divisions at least on the men's side.  Last summer was a reunion for my son.  Finished spring training sessions, studied for finals, came home and rolled right into USL2 playing with his youth mates.  College players can also find summer time with UPSL and possibly NPSL clubs which are expanding every year.

This is not the model laid out in the NextGen College Soccer Committee whitepaper above.  I'm still not wading into that argument (but again find it interesting as I take a closer look at the representation or lack thereof on that committee.)  My point was as these authorities meet to decide what is best for the student athletes many are figuring out what they want and can do on their own.   

[Freddyfud]

This just seems like endless competing interests.  US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems.  One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though.  The students.

Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today?  All while knowing they will earn a degree?

Interesting but I would suspect that is a mixed answer - for D1 players its an easier path to USL2 spots - IMO club soccer over the summer is clumsy at best outside a couple of teams in each region so spots are premium and limited......

Most clubs are done over summer unless they are in playoffs. USL2 and s definitely the route to go- my son played on a USL2 last summer as a  rising HS senior so most D1, 2 and 3 players should be able to find spots relatively easily.

maybe regional but USL2 rosters and playing time vs USLA and USL2 reserve teams are completely different things in the NY/NJ area.....

Everything is different in the NY/NJ area.  But I hear you.

[Kuiper]

This just seems like endless competing interests.  US Soccer, the arms race that is now MLS vs USL, coaches...everyone with a financial interest it seems.  One notable group seems to be absent from all of these discussions though.  The students.

Maybe student athletes are perfectly fine just enjoying playing NCAA in the fall and USL2 or other club teams in the summer as they do today?  All while knowing they will earn a degree?

There are different issues being conflated in the White Paper.  I think the injury risks associated with too many games in a short period and the academic issues and financial burden associated with long travel are all pretty well accepted (although a long bus ride can be worse from a student's standpoint than a flight that travels a farther distance).  You can mitigate those things, however, with more local/regional conferences and a season that's just a little longer.  D3 soccer would probably be a lot more humane and manageable if it were just a week or two longer to remove a few mid-week games and perhaps allowed more than 1 game day in the Spring.  On the other hand, mid-week non-conference games against weaker opponents are the only way some D3 players get playing time given the bigger rosters.  Coaches could reduce injuries and improve development if they played more of their rosters.

Having a year-long season with a two month break in-between serves different interests entirely.  That's the part that is really serving the interest of professional leagues in getting colleges to provide a free U23 minor league, which could eventually replace the more costly MLS Next Pro league and relieve NWSL/USL from starting a similar league on the women's side.  That might be great for some current DI players, but I bet a lot of players who signed with MLSNP teams instead of going to college would be unhappy.  They have no interest in having to go to school and they would rather play soccer/get paid instead.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Hmmmm. It so weird to hear this as some US centric plan. D1 is a foreign players league now and getting more and more so (or at least the more successful teams). Guessing that the women's D1 will also get more like the men's as the women's game overseas in now trending towards more elite outpacing the US developing players. 

For instance, U of Maryland men's has 13 of its 30 players from overseas though Sasho has tried to stem this for years. Seems that German is the main language of the starters and many of its subs who get most of the play. All fine, but, with this trend in many of the top teams, we will most likely not develop major US players playing and gaining experience in D1. Coaches will just continue the trend.

Marshall only has 2 Americans on its roster so 26 int'l players who come for 2 or 3 years. Some graduate, but many do not. Been like this for years and many colleges are copying its plan. Funny part that Marshall actually has ID camps.

So what I am trying to say is - it just sounds silly US Soccer being involved. As I have said before and believe, Sasho's twin season D1 plan is a great one (reducing injuries while playing big boy soccer more in line with what the rest of the world plays). He proposed this over 10 years now if I am correct.

[EnmoreCat]

We have a similar issue in Australia, it's called lack of a pyramid, which is what all of Europe has.  For sports like basketball and football, colleges do the development work for NBA and NFL.  Certainly for the latter, apart from the occasional punter who comes from Australia, the pool of available players is clearly identified.  I haven't seen it updated, but the last time I saw it, the average lifespan of a college player drafted to the MLS is like one season.  That doesn't mean they aren't good players, but there is just too big a gap to make up quickly.  I am sure MLS would like to pick up more domestic players, but they are already cherry picking a fair few of the best it seems and I would suggest that whilst those might be missing out on an education, they are getting a better soccer education.  If MLS clubs don't think enough good players are coming through, perhaps they should be thinking more like clubs in Europe than like NBA & NFL franchises and getting more involved in player development earlier. That could work within the college system, but may well work better outside of it.

For what it's worth, my view has changed on this, originally, I liked the idea of being a student-athlete where there is opportunity to potentially progress on the athletic side.  Now, I think, that it makes more sense to use your playing ability to help leverage you into a better academic college.  I'm D3 all the way...

[stlawus]

These people keep missing the forest for the trees. College soccer stopped being a development league 15 years ago.  It is a niche and exclusive sport in the US. Why these coaches want to turn it into the premier league I have no idea. Watching teams have half their games end up as ties in a 16 game season because coaches think they're Pep Guardiola has greatly reduced the uniqueness of the sport. US soccer is not going to elevate their quality through college soccer. It's too late in the development stage, players have to be in academies well before college. Let's say you get a player or two through in the proposed system, you're going to completely change the landscape all for that? You'll have to drastically reduce the number of international players which will set off its own set of problems (despite lots of other countries having limits on international players in their systems) with people making bad faith arguments about xenophobia.

This is just incredibly stupid and completely misses the point. Fund academies and use resources on coaches and talent development/identification.

[SimpleCoach]

I will say.... that's it?  This is the long awaited plan to remake college soccer?  This is what 213 DI programs are going to sign up for?

My only question is ... did they actually pay for this?  Or did they ask ChatGPT to make it up.

Whole document is full of "Should"... should fund this... should support that.  Not one "will". 

I am doing an episode of Injured Time on this.... but I could have given you 15 things US Soccer could do today to have an impact on college soccer... and I would have accepted a couple of shirts as compensation.

I mean seriously.  What a waste of PDF memory...

SC.

[EnmoreCat]

Apart from the US and maybe Canada (that's a wild guess, no idea if accurate) no other country sees it's university system as a conveyor belt of soccer talent.  That probably tells you all you need to know and to my view much of this is pushed by coaches of high performing D1 programmes who are recruiting more experienced internationals. We know an Australian turning 23 this year who moved to the US to play for NC State this season, that doesn't say development to me.  For our code, college is much better placed to enable young men to be student-athletes, not the other way around.

[SimpleCoach]

Apart from the US and maybe Canada (that's a wild guess, no idea if accurate) no other country sees it's university system as a conveyor belt of soccer talent.  That probably tells you all you need to know and to my view much of this is pushed by coaches of high performing D1 programmes who are recruiting more experienced internationals. We know an Australian turning 23 this year who moved to the US to play for NC State this season, that doesn't say development to me.  For our code, college is much better placed to enable young men to be student-athletes, not the other way around.

Clearly, US Soccer has no understanding of this.

Hope you are and the litter are doing well @EnmoreCat.

SC.