Author Topic: BB: Pitcher of the Year Candidates  (Read 85043 times)

Offline Mr. Ypsi

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2007, 07:41:01 pm »
Aha, a silver lining to global warming!  Perhaps someday we cold-weather schools will be able to play baseball games in March without shovelling snow off the field! ;D

Offline Just_Some_Guy

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2007, 10:00:08 pm »
I see Yacko in the same role as last year.  His bat is far too valuable and he's somewhat of a max effort guy who is very effective for one, two or even three innings. 

Exactly.


Also, the schools in warmer weather such as Chapman are able to spread their games out over a longer period of time as opposed to cold weather programs that start late and have to play the same amount of games in a shorter period of time.  Therefore, the cold weather programs require a deeper rotation and don't have the advantage of playing basically on weekends and being able to throw their number one, two and maybe three every game.  They can also use their three, four and five guys in the rotation as their bullpen.  Explains why schools such as Chapman can have a two man rotation all year, must be nice!  Kitchens and Drag threw 115 and 119 innings respectively and the next closest guy had 82 and after him 55.  I'd love to see these schools be forced to play a schedule where they couldn't rely on two or three guys all year and see how things change.  I know there was talk of a uniform start date at the D1 level but I'm not sure when it starts but it should apply to all divisions to be fair and keep things on an even keel.

You bring up some good points, but at the same time does it not put the cold weather teams in a better position to make a deeper run in the playoffs having relied on more guys throughout the year?  In the 8 team playoff format for all the marbles you need to be deep, able to rely on the bullpen, etc... and certainly it comes in handy having had to rely on those guys all year, rather than trying to just run them out there for the playoffs.

That said, Chapman these past few years were going to go at you with their big guns on short rest rather than a #4 starter anyhow.

JSG

hitforthecycle

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2007, 12:10:14 am »
Guy, I actually was going to bring up the other side of the coin as you mentioned but failed to do so and that is that along with the benefits that Chapman and fellow warm weather programs share there are also some negatives no question.  Those front end starters can often times be burned out by the time post season comes along and in a tournament setting pitchers can be called upon who may not have been given ample opportunity or experience during the regular season and can ultimately be the difference.  With that being said, my biggest problem is that none of this matters to a team unless they first have the opportunity to compete in post season play which is based largely upon their regular season performance in regards to ranking both regionally and nationally for example.  You can't win a national championship unless you make your regional.  It's nothing against Chapman or other institutions who experience the same thing but that happens to be the program I decided to pick on I guess because of their success.  I'm just curious to see what their regular season record would look like if they played the schedule of a cold-weather program and were forced to pitch more than a total of five guys during the year.  I'm sure that Chapman would still be very successful but I can't help but think what if? It just amazes me that a team can play a 49 game season and two pitchers on one staff can account for more than half of the total innings pitched for the entire year.  There are teams at the DIII level who have at least two or maybe even three guys who could on any given day beat any given team in the country.  However, these teams can't throw those pitchers for more than half of their total innings because of their geographical location and again because of how late their season starts.  These same teams who have two or three solid arms end up not having a great record  for many reasons but one reason imparticular can be attributed to pitching depth because after their top three, four or five guys things get bad.  I know that good teams still have to put the ball in play and play solid defense but I wonder how successful some teams across the country would be if they had the same opportunity as a team like Chapman whereby they could have their top arms available for more than half of their games.  Just a thought!

Offline Bob Maxwell

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2007, 08:11:59 am »
When you put the #3 pitchers numbers into the mix... the impact of the number of starts/percentage of IP's/and strikeouts is even more dramatic.


Offline Bob Maxwell

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2007, 08:44:42 am »
This type of discussion has been taking place for years in D-I... With each school being where it is, its just something that coaches need to deal with when they put their team together.  In D-III no one is going to be able to do what some of the northern D-I schools do... that is to travel south each weekend starting in mid February to play 3 games and give their top starters more opportunities.  Even then, they are always on the road.

Guess we have to just live where we live...  but it is an interesting thing to talk about.   :D

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2007, 05:11:24 pm »
I think JSG makes a good point.

I have been impressed with the depth of the WIAC, SUNYAC, NJAC and LEC pitching staffs as they make it to the playoffs.  Everyone of those teams are public schools, too.

There is one other factor that we can discuss.

Offline BoomerIL

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2007, 11:40:40 pm »
Even though I have not been involved with this discussion from the beginning, and am still somewhat new to these 'boards,' I would like to share my thoughts.

We can understand the typical concerns that we might have regarding weather and a particular part of the country our kids play in, but doesn't coaching style play into how a team is setup?  Most DIII schools that I have followed, and I've been doing this for at approximately five years, have probably two solid starters, and if they are lucky three.  If they are very, very lucky they probably have four solid starters.  Those with three or four pitchers are usually in national contention on a yearly basis, and probably have an excellent bullpen where as some of those pitchers could be starters at other DIII schools.  Most certainly other factors are to be considered as well.  You also have to consider the success of those schools that may attract those better high school players year-in-and-year-out to keep their traditions in good order.

If many DI schools go "south" early in the winter/spring, then why don't more DIII schools do the same?  Yes, they may go to Arizona or Florida in March, and as you all know, many DIII schools can play as early as February.  DI game schedules have to be considered (50+) as do academics.  Our DIII kids don't usually have all morning classes, student study facilities, with tutors, and tutors that accompany the teams while on the road.  It's a different world for DIII, just look at how the NCAA has the three dividion setup.  Because of the high academic standards that occur at most DIII schools, (please don't take offense to this statement, it's just a generalization not meant to offend anyone) maybe the game schedules, and in particular the doubleheaders that have one 7 inning game and then the other being a 9 inning game, makes no sense to me.  Why not two 9 inning games?  Is this how it is in DI?  If not, then here is another example of how poorly DIII baseball is treated by the NCAA, and that's just my opinion!

There are probably other factors that I am unaware of, and thats because of my ignorance as to how DIII baseball really works.  I can also assume, which is a big mistake, that because of the size of DIII schools, that it is one of the major reasons that the system is setup the way it is.  I guess my final thoughts leave me to believe that besides the quality of education provided by most DIII schools, again, I hope I'm not offending anyone, that many quality players go to the better, nationally known schools to play baseball.  I guess many have really taken the realistic approach by going to a school for a great education, and also for having an excellent chance of playing right-away, unlike at maybe a DI.

I'm just trying to understand some things, but still believe that because of coaching style, and the reputation of the baseball program, dictates how those schools go about their daily business.[/u][/u]
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 11:42:50 pm by BoomerIL »
"You observe alot by watching"  -  Yogi Berra

Offline rjburke

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2007, 12:12:45 am »
Exactly what do you mean by a warm weather school? The Southern half of the country?

Offline BoomerIL

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2007, 12:34:49 am »
rjburke....

In my opinion, any state that is lower than Colorado, Kansas, Kentucky, Virginia.  Too me, warm weather schools would be below them on the map.  Someone else might have a different list.

I know someone will say that it is still, or can get, pretty cold in those southern states.  But, if you haven't watched your son play when the snow is falling, and he has trouble picking-up a fly ball, well you just can't appreciate how nice it is to be in Florida in March!!!!
"You observe alot by watching"  -  Yogi Berra

Offline rjburke

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2007, 12:53:52 am »
Baseball in the snow is no fun to play r watch. I get a lot of use out of my hot chili ski wear.

The discussion has been interesting, especially the points about who seems best prepared for Appleton. Fact: Of the past 12 years' champions, only two have been warm weather teams and 6 have come from the Northeast; 3 from the NJAC and 3 from the LEC.

Pitchers on warm weather teams may put up impresive numbers, but that doesn't mean they have performed better that pitchers in, for instance, the Northeast. But because those who vote for awards can't possibly see everyone play, stats and reputation become the controlling factors.

Offline BoomerIL

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2007, 01:11:19 am »
I really truly believe that in most cases, players from the north usually work harder in the off-season to prepare for their season.  I remember when my son was between his sophomore and juniors years in high school, and he went to a showcase in Texas.  This was to see how he stacked-up to the Texas competition.

While watching in the stands, I got to talk with some of the local parents.  I said it must be nice for your sons to be able to play baseball much longer than what we are accustomed to up north.  Every parent I talked to, including one from California said that most of their sons were either burnt-out or bored with the game when the season was over.  You really still have to have the desire to play the game, long season or not.

So maybe someone can explain to me why the opposite might be true for the DI schools.......the ones in the south usually have the upper hand going into tournament play.
"You observe alot by watching"  -  Yogi Berra

Offline Jim Dixon

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2007, 12:39:37 pm »
The discussion has been interesting, especially the points about who seems best prepared for Appleton. Fact: Of the past 12 years' champions, only two have been warm weather teams and 6 have come from the Northeast; 3 from the NJAC and 3 from the LEC.

This may have something to do with the fact that most of the schools are in the cold areas as previously described.

hitforthecycle

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2007, 02:34:04 pm »
It should be no surprise that only two warm weather teams have been champions over the past twelve years because only two of the eight regions are comprised of warm weather schools, the south and the west.  Therefore, the odds of a cold weather school winning the championship are far greater.  It also depends on what states you categorize as warm weather but those two regions have destinations where most if not all schools go on their spring trip to start their season.

Spence

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2007, 12:24:16 am »
I seriously doubt that the weather is the main determinant in who wins championships.

The series has been won by 3-4 man staffs. Especially with the setup as it is now, it's very possible, if you win those first three games.

There's no rule that says Chapman can't throw their #5 against someone else's #1. Marietta does it a lot out of necessity; some team in a lesser conference throws their ace and we have conference games Saturday and Tuesday or something. Wooster threw frickin Samson and Trapuzzano against our 7 and 8 guys IIRC.

That said, I think there are other factors. I just hope Birmingham Southern and UT Tyler don't turn that theory that southern teams can't develop pitching to win into a distant memory.

Offline rjburke

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Re: 2008 Pitcher of the year
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2007, 11:10:22 pm »
It should be no surprise that only two warm weather teams have been champions over the past twelve years because only two of the eight regions are comprised of warm weather schools, the south and the west.  Therefore, the odds of a cold weather school winning the championship are far greater. 

Still, outof 50+ conferences, 6 0f the last 12 naional champions came from just 2 conferences, both in the Northeast. The arguement that cold weather teams are forced to use a deeper pitching staff and, therefore, have more pitchers prepared to pitch during the palyoffs seems to have quite a bit of merit.