Author Topic: MBB: American Southwest Conference  (Read 595833 times)

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3960 on: February 28, 2012, 12:39:41 am »
Our complaint, at least in the ASC, is that the post-season generally seeds our teams with the same teams that they just played in the conference tournament.  So, all the tournament really determines is whether anyone will beat the conference leader to get an at-large bid.  Last year, McMurry won the conference but UMHB and UT Dallas also got bids.  In the post-season, UMHB got to play UT Dallas (again) and then McMurry (again).  This year is a little better, since at least McM and UMHB don't play each other in the first round.  It seems to me if a team is good enough to make it to the post season, it should be able to play someone new right away, and not the same-old-same-old (which saves the NCAA $$ in transportation costs).  In fairness to the NCAA, our women's teams got a much better break this year: one goes to the Northwest, the other to the Midwest; they don't have to play each other (again) in Texas.

While that is rough, be thankful that you get 2 teams in the tourny!  We get hosed generally in the NWC.  There are too many NAIA schools, not enough D.3 schools in our neck of the woods!   However, I don't want this post to make this discussion into who has it worse.  What I really would like to know is if the NCAA actively recruits schools into membership or not.  I think if they did this and upped the amount of teams out west (the real west, not Wisconsin which is near the center of the country) that we would all get better recognition as a whole region. 

As for Buc's comments on Gebbers, he is right on the money.  The kid averages 3 threes a game while shooting in the mid 40's%.  Very smart player and orchestrates this team to a t.  It will take a lot to dismiss this Whitworth team from this years tournament.  And while I think last years team was overall better, this team brings a lot to the table as well.  And Im not saying this as a WW fan, I hate them.  Played against them for 4 years, never liked them.  But I have to respect how they play and go about their business.  Should be a fun one this year
I have never heard of the NCAA recruiting schools.  Any recruiting might occur by individual conferences that need to fill deficiencies as we have seen in the shuffles over the last 5-7 years.

Look at the NAIA schools in the Northwest...

what advantage is there for those schools to move to the NCAA?  The NWC is not likely to invite them to join.  (Remember how Menlo was treated. Football only and nothing more.)

The entire Cascade Collegiate Conference would need to move, and that is a hard process.  We have not seen that since the NWC and ASC made the move to D-III in the mid 1990's.

Offline playball

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3961 on: February 28, 2012, 12:49:23 am »
Our complaint, at least in the ASC, is that the post-season generally seeds our teams with the same teams that they just played in the conference tournament.  So, all the tournament really determines is whether anyone will beat the conference leader to get an at-large bid.  Last year, McMurry won the conference but UMHB and UT Dallas also got bids.  In the post-season, UMHB got to play UT Dallas (again) and then McMurry (again).  This year is a little better, since at least McM and UMHB don't play each other in the first round.  It seems to me if a team is good enough to make it to the post season, it should be able to play someone new right away, and not the same-old-same-old (which saves the NCAA $$ in transportation costs).  In fairness to the NCAA, our women's teams got a much better break this year: one goes to the Northwest, the other to the Midwest; they don't have to play each other (again) in Texas.

While that is rough, be thankful that you get 2 teams in the tourny!  We get hosed generally in the NWC.  There are too many NAIA schools, not enough D.3 schools in our neck of the woods!   However, I don't want this post to make this discussion into who has it worse.  What I really would like to know is if the NCAA actively recruits schools into membership or not.  I think if they did this and upped the amount of teams out west (the real west, not Wisconsin which is near the center of the country) that we would all get better recognition as a whole region. 

As for Buc's comments on Gebbers, he is right on the money.  The kid averages 3 threes a game while shooting in the mid 40's%.  Very smart player and orchestrates this team to a t.  It will take a lot to dismiss this Whitworth team from this years tournament.  And while I think last years team was overall better, this team brings a lot to the table as well.  And Im not saying this as a WW fan, I hate them.  Played against them for 4 years, never liked them.  But I have to respect how they play and go about their business.  Should be a fun one this year
I have never heard of the NCAA recruiting schools.  Any recruiting might occur by individual conferences that need to fill deficiencies as we have seen in the shuffles over the last 5-7 years.

Look at the NAIA schools in the Northwest...

what advantage is there for those schools to move to the NCAA?  The NWC is not likely to invite them to join.  (Remember how Menlo was treated. Football only and nothing more.)

The entire Cascade Collegiate Conference would need to move, and that is a hard process.  We have not seen that since the NWC and ASC made the move to D-III in the mid 1990's.

Hey Ralph, one can hope! ;)

Offline (509)Rat

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3962 on: February 28, 2012, 09:46:08 am »
Financially it probably makes more sense for some of these schools to go DIII. There would be savings in scholarship $ and travel expenses.

Competitively, Carroll College's football program and Lewis and Clark State's baseball program would want nothing to do with it. Carroll's team would suddenly be fighting for recruits with state schools in montana that have cheaper tuition and no way to offset their own costs to student-athletes with scholarships. LCState would no longer be able to bring in some of the kids that they do from Cali juco programs. Linfield might also not be so happy about LCstate stealing their thunder...as the warriors are regularly competitive with pac-12 programs. That last one was for playball more than anything else...

The frontier conference and the cascade conference could both go DIII and you could allow the Oregon and Seattle area teams to join the NWC and put the Idaho colleges, the Montana schools, and the Utah and N Dakota programs in another conference. You'd have more in-region games to schedule, two conferences who would eventually receive auto-bids, etc.

But, it's not going to happen and has nothing to do with this thread. I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time ::) Back to basketball, which reminds me, you guys haven't given us much on McMurry...

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3963 on: February 28, 2012, 10:27:55 am »
McMurry, er Jekyll and Hyde.

It is hard to get a feel for this year's team. They seem to play to the competition.

Steven Jones is a big and wide body in the middle of the paint. His little turn/spin move to the basket was called traveling in the tournament.  He is a really BIG small forward with the agility of a guard...kinda like a kid who played small playground guard until he was about 16 yrs old and then became into the possession of the body of a middle linebacker. 

They do run 9 deep (and 12 players had 8.0 mpg).  They play the aggressive up-tempo game common in this part of the country.

Lots of athleticism...

Isler is a solid point guard..."coach's son" game smarts.

Anthony Johnson is the defensive expert.  Hounds players all thruout the game.

Bryant Taylor and Bryce Hill can light it up!

All the players can run for interminable durations. Jones may be the one who needs to be spelled by Perez and Seville, etc.

The ASC has about 6 different styles of play by very good teams so the team is versatile.

It will be nice to play in the friendly confines at UMHB.

IMHO, UMHB does not match up well with Withworth either, so they had better hope we knock them out.  I honestly think that Whitworth is the favorite, by virtue of the composition of the bracket. I think that UMHB can beat Trinity fairly easily and learning to adjust their style of play to Trinity's discipline will be good for UMHB if UMHB faces Whitworth.

I think that UMHB can beat McMurry more easily than it can beat Whitworth, so those CRU fans need to remember that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" on Friday night and root for the ASC and McMurry.

Having to play UMHB a 4th time in a season will be tough!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 10:34:06 am by Ralph Turner »

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3964 on: February 28, 2012, 10:43:29 am »
Thanks Ralph!

Playing conference foes is always tricky. You generally know each other so well that games end up close that shouldn't be. I always go back to Linfield football with this one; they'll struggle with Whitworth or Willamette in conference and then go out and lay a shellacking on an out of conference foe in the playoffs. I think Whitworth is the better team, but if I'm UMHB I don't know if I'd rather see McMurry in the second round...

The great thing about Whitworth's program as of late, thanks to Hayford, is that they have the funding to do some significant traveling in the non-conference. Hopefully that experience helps. But McMurry definitely has an advantage, they will be much more familiar and comfortable in their surroundings.

If Whitworth shoots well, I expect them to come out of this pod. But you never know, being on the road, at someone else's home gym, how that'll work out. They really need to remain patient and efficient like they have all season. What A Buc Forever said about "efficiency" is spot on. Whitworth plays the type of game where if you, as a fan, aren't paying attention real closely, you'll look up at the scoreboard during halftime and wonder how the hell they have 40 points?! Very business like in the way they play. But if McMurry can make them uncomfortable on both ends in the court they definitely win this game...

I'm guessing (hoping) UMHB will be streaming these games?

Offline McM Blue Devil

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3965 on: February 28, 2012, 10:54:23 am »
Ralph,

Good description of McMurry.  They have been up and down, but I had a feeling that they just needed to get on a roll and fortunately they did that at the right time.  They have been playing for their life the last four weeks, I hope they can keep that mentality this weekend.

I saw Whitworth briefly during the Trinity tournament here in SA back in December.  They were truly better than Southwestern (who they were playing that day) and I remember thinking they were pretty good.  Based on the description by their fans, I think they matchup between Getters and Isler should be a good one.  In my opinion, Isler was they key to their success this weekend. Whitworth sounds really good and McMurry cannot afford to fall behind and try a comeback like they have the last two games.

While UMHB is the favorite against Trinity, donít underestimate the Tigers.  They have gone on a nice streak the last several weeks and their run in the SCAC tourney was impressive.  They wonít kill you athletically, but they will execute very well and they have several guys who can shoot it.  DeWeese knows Coach Cunningham pretty well so I am sure he will have his guys ready to play.  To be honest it wonít surprise me if any of these four teams come out of this pod.  All of these games will be good.

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3966 on: February 28, 2012, 11:41:05 am »
Traveling from Spokane to the Pacific Ocean for NWC road games makes them road warriors of the ASC/SCAC calibre.

I don't think that the travel will bother them as much as some teams would. Since they have made the trip to Texas this season, then this should not be a factor for a mature, disciplined team.

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3967 on: February 28, 2012, 01:11:30 pm »
Bus rides are somewhat foreign to Whitworth. They have an advantage vs conference opponents on the road as their budget allows them to fly to all away games outside of the one trip to Walla Walla. Rough life huh?

Offline mcmfan

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3968 on: February 28, 2012, 01:48:05 pm »
A quick additional comment about Isler.  Don't be deceived about his being the "coach's son."  He began playing at McMurry last season, under a different coach, and showed his mettle then as the point.  The previous coach won the conference, then quit on short notice for a job opening elsewhere.  Isler's father was hired after that, after his son was already established as a key starter on the team.  He is very solid and (in my opinion) is the major cement grounding the team.  Steven Jones will get more points, but he'll also get more fouls (and he must hold a McMurry record for technicals, if anyone keeps track of that).
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Offline playball

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3969 on: February 28, 2012, 01:57:38 pm »
A quick additional comment about Isler.  Don't be deceived about his being the "coach's son."  He began playing at McMurry last season, under a different coach, and showed his mettle then as the point.  The previous coach won the conference, then quit on short notice for a job opening elsewhere.  Isler's father was hired after that, after his son was already established as a key starter on the team.  He is very solid and (in my opinion) is the major cement grounding the team.  Steven Jones will get more points, but he'll also get more fouls (and he must hold a McMurry record for technicals, if anyone keeps track of that).

How does Jones play against bigger, taller competition?  Offensively and defensively?   

Felix has a nice little mid range game and doesn't stray too far from the key, but can and may knock down thee 15 footer consistently. Very skilled for his size and moves his feet well.

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3970 on: February 28, 2012, 02:07:55 pm »
From what I've read Isler sounds like a very good player. The term "coaches kid" doesn't mean a whole lot to me, as I've seen it thrown around loosely and to mean many different things. Is it fair to say as Isler goes, the team goes? Or can Jones and company take over even if Isler is off? And maybe more important than "can they" is, "do they"?

Offline mcmfan

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3971 on: February 28, 2012, 03:46:50 pm »
It depends.  As Ralph pointed out, this team is a group version of Dr. Jekyll - Mr. Hyde.  We've had amazing games where they have snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, as the saying goes, and then lost to teams who otherwise haven't been able to beat anybody.  I think there were some personnel problems at one point, but the team seems to have gotten beyond them now.  All this obviously makes it hard to predict what will happen before any game, especially playing an unknown (for us) group like WW.  I wouldn't be surprised if we won both games this weekend.  I also wouldn't be surprised if WW blew us away.   :P
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Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3972 on: February 29, 2012, 12:58:03 am »
A quick additional comment about Isler.  Don't be deceived about his being the "coach's son."  He began playing at McMurry last season, under a different coach, and showed his mettle then as the point.  The previous coach won the conference, then quit on short notice for a job opening elsewhere.  Isler's father was hired after that, after his son was already established as a key starter on the team.  He is very solid and (in my opinion) is the major cement grounding the team.  Steven Jones will get more points, but he'll also get more fouls (and he must hold a McMurry record for technicals, if anyone keeps track of that).
+1!  What he said... :)

The comment about "coach's son" was meant to be complimentary as someone who has grown up in a basketball house, taking basketball theory, insight, getting to learn what his father has been preaching all his life, etc.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 01:00:43 am by Ralph Turner »

Offline Ralph Turner

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3973 on: February 29, 2012, 01:15:10 am »
A quick additional comment about Isler.  Don't be deceived about his being the "coach's son."  He began playing at McMurry last season, under a different coach, and showed his mettle then as the point.  The previous coach won the conference, then quit on short notice for a job opening elsewhere.  Isler's father was hired after that, after his son was already established as a key starter on the team.  He is very solid and (in my opinion) is the major cement grounding the team.  Steven Jones will get more points, but he'll also get more fouls (and he must hold a McMurry record for technicals, if anyone keeps track of that).
+1!  What he said... :)

The comment about "coach's son" was meant to be complimentary as someone who has grown up in a basketball house, taking basketball theory, insight, getting to learn what his father has been preaching all his life, etc.

IMHO, Isler is second only to 2010 Bob Cousy nominee Robert Moreno among McMurry point guards in the last decade.

Offline mcmfan

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Re: MBB: American Southwest Conference
« Reply #3974 on: February 29, 2012, 09:37:04 am »
The comment about "coach's son" was meant to be complimentary as someone who has grown up in a basketball house, taking basketball theory, insight, getting to learn what his father has been preaching all his life, etc.
Right.  I just wanted the posters from the NWC to know that Jaden established himself before his father became the coach.
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