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Messages - jknezek

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1
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective
« on: September 28, 2023, 12:39:46 pm »
Random W&L question...and same for newly maligned Conn College and Coast Guard...do W&L students, past and/or present, tend to have any interaction or socializing with VMI?

Couldn't tell you about present, but in ancient times (1996-2000) it was a struggle to keep them out of our parties. VMI was mostly male at the time, so they were desperate for female attention. If they had liberty on weekends, they were always trying to crash fraternity parties. Can't tell you how many I threw out over the years. The fraternities hated it. Besides messing up ratios, they drank our liquor, and generally didn't care if the house got damaged or in trouble because it wasn't their problem. On top of that, because of their strict rules, it's not like they ever reciprocated, so it was pretty adversarial.

Now don't get me wrong, there were always a few couples that formed, Rats to W&L girls. Those guys were in a military school, always in shape, and probably pretty nice. I had a good friend at my first job who graduated VMI a couple years before I graduated W&L. It just was not a beneficial relationship for W&L fraternities, so everything was done to keep them out.

We used to play them in rugby and it was always a bloody game. Played a few times for club soccer as well, and it wasn't a pretty game. Axes to grind. We also used to play them in NCAA sports, but that seems to have died off over the years.

I have no idea what the relationship is now, but I do know I enjoyed going over to their museum. Only place I know of where you can see a Nobel Peace Prize (The Marshall Plan) right next to a Best Picture Oscar (Patton). It's a very interesting campus and I have nothing but respect for the college and it's graduates, but at the time, they were a hassle.

2
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective
« on: September 28, 2023, 09:36:19 am »

I can imagine how proud you feel after your son's shout out.  FWIW 30 years ago while on breaks from my own "studies" I spent many nights with dear friends at W&L (at least from what I can recall.)  Soccer was NOT part of my experience, but I did see Dave Mathews perform live in their fraternity house before I (or anyone else) knew who they were.  Very fond memories and a great group of friends. It really is an exceptional school.

Good luck to you and your son this year.

One of two W&L grads on this board I think.  Preceded Dave Matthews by a year or two I think when he and his band was centered in Charlottesville. May have overlapped, but always a good time at any party.  Might have been my fraternity, but with 17 fraternities in my day (only 1200 students and went coed while I was there) may have not been. Virtually everyone joined one.  Played soccer sparsely under the previous coach to the current which was a pretty inconsequential team then and until the day this coach retired was still. W&L until this coach was not even close to being known as a soccer school.  All the current coach working hard and getting great results. I don't think W&L maybe made the NCAAs once if not at all.

As to why I am not rah-rah W&L has less than to do with the current coach, but with W&L and its crazy, crazy cost. Almost criminal in my opinion. Many of the guys who graduated in my time have the same issue, and, like me, would have had their kids go to W&L. Son was recruited and got in early decision, but we couldn't afford (two other younger kids had to go to college as well). It did not make any sense for our family. One of the issues not often discussed on the boards. FYI, when I was at W&L it was fairly affordable for a liberal arts college. Long story.   

I'm class of 2000, so I missed Dave Matthews by a few years but I did, for a time, have the infamous bootleg of him playing at Zollman's Pavilion off campus at a W&L event, maybe sometime in 1993?

Anyway, when I was there the soccer team was decent, always toward the top of the ODAC. Coach Piranian was there for almost 40 years and went 313-242-56 according to W&L's website. He won the ODAC in '86, '89, and '00, reaching the Sweet Sixteen of the NCAAs in '00.

As for the cost, yes, it's ridiculous. And what makes it more ridiculous is it is not out of line with most of the top Liberal Arts schools in the country. It was a "value" school when I was there, expensive, but not near as expensive as its peers. I turned away from a bunch of Centennial Schools since they were much more expensive at the time. Now they all carry a ridiculous sticker. However, the sticker is kind of a joke, as almost no one pays it. W&L's sticker is around 80K a year including room and board. The actual average cost, after scholarships and grants, is about 27K per year.

The whole "industry" is rife with this kind of lunacy. Don't get me wrong, 27k per year is still expensive, but out of state to go to UVA is going to cost 21K after scholarships and grants, so it's not like state schools are a lot better.

Anyway, discussion for a different spot. I'll just say we've been spoiled the last decade with W&L soccer teams. This team doesn't seem to have the same talent, or at least the same ability to win games. Down years happen almost everywhere. I think it will be ODAC tournament champs or no post season for the Generals for the first time since 2014 (not counting COVID).

3
Men's soccer / Re: D3Boards.Com Soccer Top 20 Fan Poll
« on: September 28, 2023, 09:15:50 am »
Corrected:  FCGrizzliesGrad was correct. Somehow on his ballot I skipped Montclair State at 9. Usually I check to make sure the 25th team matches ballot to aggregator but I must have missed it. The only change to the poll is Montclair State goes from 10 to 8 and Carleton and Bowdoin each move down 1 row. Everyone else in the top 25 stays in the same position, but their vote totals shift a bit. In the RV section, Redlands hops out of the tie with Lynchburg but nothing else major shifts. My apologies to FCGrizz and, of course, Montclair State.

D3Boards.com Soccer Fan Poll Games as of 9/24/2023
National Top 25
Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Messiah (7)
199
3
1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
2
Amherst (1)
189
1
2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 6, 2, 2
3
Mary Washington
174
-2
3, 3, 6, 5, 3, 2, 4, 8
4
Oneonta State
165
5
7, 4, 5, 8, 5, 3, 8, 3
5
Chicago
145
1
12, 9, 7, 3, 12, 4, 7, 9
6
Middlebury
139
1
4, 5, 3, 6, 14, 6, 5
7
Mount Union
126
12
8, 19, 13, 11, 7, 15, 3, 6
8
Montclair State
122
2
9, 7, 9, 10, 7, 5, 13
9
Carleton
121
5
6, 21, 10, 12, 6, 10, 15, 7
10
Bowdoin
116
8
10, 11, 16, 4, 11, 16, 12, 12
11
Texas Lutheran
101
-1
5, 8, 9, 21, 8, 4
T12
St. Thomas (TX)
96
4
16, 22, 12, 7, 5, 10, 14
T12
Tufts
96
11
21, 12, 19, 14, 9, 9, 18, 10
14
Case Western Reserve
91
-2
18, 8, 17, 21, 4, 19, 13, 17
15
Connecticut College
82
2
11, 6, 15, 23, 8, 11
16
Rochester
78
-3
13, 10, 11, 16, 20, 16, 18
17
Cortland State
72
4
14, 20, 17, 14, 13, 9, 23
18
North Central (IL)
69
3
19, 15, 18, 13, 12, 20, 16
19
Williams
54
-12
16, 4, 18, 24, 19, 21
20
Occidental
39
---
14, 23, 25, 15, 25, 15
21
Franklin and Marshall
32
-16
24, 11, 11
22
Calvin
31
-7
18, 14, 15
23
Trinity (TX)
30
---
17, 23, 25, 21, 14
24
John Carroll
26
-22
17, 19, 17, 25
25
Widener
24
---
15, 22, 18, 25

Also Receiving Votes:
Redlands (21) , Lynchburg (20) , Macalester (20) , Emory (18) , Denison (16) , Gustavus Adolphus (13) , UW-Platteville (12) , New Paltz State (10) , Wartburg (10) , Washington and Lee (10) , Christopher Newport (9) , Ithaca (8) , Plattsburgh State (6) , Ohio Wesleyan (4) , Dickinson (2) , Lebanon Valley (2) , MSOE (1) , St. Joseph (CT) (1)

Newly Ranked: Occidental, Trinity (TX), Widener
Dropped Out: Christopher Newport (Prev:20), Redlands (Prev:24), Denison (Prev:25), Gustavus Adolphus (Prev:25)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 25 = 25th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, Mid-Atlantic Fan, Coach Jeff, PaulNewman, Paclassic89, SimpleCoach, College Soccer Observer, Greg Sager

4
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective
« on: September 27, 2023, 09:17:46 pm »
I've watched a chunk of the W&L vs Roanoke game. All I have seen from W&L is sending the ball long from the back 4. The midfield has been invisible. This is a far cry from what I'm used to seeing. W&L have been a somewhat direct team the last few years, but this chunk has just been miserably, pointlessly, long ball after long ball. Just not real impressed.

5
Men's soccer / Re: D3Boards.Com Soccer Top 20 Fan Poll
« on: September 27, 2023, 09:41:13 am »
New poll, Messiah reclaims the top spot after a one-week hiatus. Mount Union is the big winner on the week, John Carroll the big loser. Middlebury at 6 is the first team to appear on less than all 8 ballots.

D3Boards.com Soccer Fan Poll Games as of 9/24/2023
National Top 25
Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Messiah (7)
199
3
1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1
2
Amherst (1)
189
1
2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 6, 2, 2
3
Mary Washington
174
-2
3, 3, 6, 5, 3, 2, 4, 8
4
Oneonta State
165
5
7, 4, 5, 8, 5, 3, 8, 3
5
Chicago
146
1
11, 9, 7, 3, 12, 4, 7, 9
6
Middlebury
139
1
4, 5, 3, 6, 14, 6, 5
7
Mount Union
126
12
8, 19, 13, 11, 7, 15, 3, 6
8
Carleton
121
6
6, 21, 10, 12, 6, 10, 15, 7
9
Bowdoin
117
9
9, 11, 16, 4, 11, 16, 12, 12
10
Montclair State
105
0
7, 9, 10, 7, 5, 13
11
Texas Lutheran
101
-1
5, 8, 9, 21, 8, 4
T12
St. Thomas (TX)
97
4
15, 22, 12, 7, 5, 10, 14
T12
Tufts
97
11
20, 12, 19, 14, 9, 9, 18, 10
14
Case Western Reserve
92
-2
17, 8, 17, 21, 4, 19, 13, 17
15
Connecticut College
83
2
10, 6, 15, 23, 8, 11
16
Rochester
79
-3
12, 10, 11, 16, 20, 16, 18
17
Cortland State
72
4
14, 20, 17, 14, 13, 9, 23
18
North Central (IL)
70
3
18, 15, 18, 13, 12, 20, 16
19
Williams
54
-12
16, 4, 18, 24, 19, 21
20
Occidental
40
---
13, 23, 25, 15, 25, 15
21
Franklin and Marshall
32
-16
24, 11, 11
T22
Calvin
31
-7
18, 14, 15
T22
Trinity (TX)
31
---
16, 23, 25, 21, 14
24
John Carroll
26
-22
17, 19, 17, 25
25
Widener
25
---
14, 22, 18, 25

Also Receiving Votes:
Lynchburg (21) , Redlands (21) , Macalester (20) , Emory (18) , Denison (16) , Gustavus Adolphus (14) , UW-Platteville (13) , New Paltz State (11) , Wartburg (11) , Washington and Lee (10) , Christopher Newport (9) , Ithaca (8) , Plattsburgh State (6) , Ohio Wesleyan (4) , Dickinson (2) , Lebanon Valley (2) , MSOE (2) , St. Joseph (CT) (1)

Newly Ranked: Occidental, Trinity (TX), Widener
Dropped Out: Christopher Newport (Prev:20), Redlands (Prev:24), Denison (Prev:25), Gustavus Adolphus (Prev:25)

1 = 1st Place Vote, 25 = 25th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: FCGrizzliesGrad, Mid-Atlantic Fan, Coach Jeff, PaulNewman, Paclassic89, SimpleCoach, College Soccer Observer, Greg Sager

6
Region 3 football (South Atlantic-ish) / Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
« on: September 26, 2023, 09:45:34 pm »
Trinity finally claims the top spot with 5 of 6 1st place votes. Hardin-Simmons falls but stays easily inside the poll. UMHB stays in despite being the only non-unanimous pick.

Surprisingly, to me anyway, Averett picks up 2 votes. Considering their opponents are 2-10 on the season, it will be interesting to see what they can do with their first opponent likely to finish at or above .500 this week.

Region 3 (South Atlantic-Ish) Fan Poll Week 4
Conferences: ASC, ODAC, SAA, USASAC
Rank
School
Points
Weekly Change
Voter Breakdown
1
Trinity (TX) (5)
39
1
1 , 4 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1
T2
Berry (1)
31
2
2 , 1 , 3 , 5 , 2 , 4
T2
R-MC
31
1
4 , 3 , 2 , 3 , 3 , 2
4
Hardin-Simmons
20
-3
5 , 5 , 4 , 4 , 5 , 5
5
Howard Payne
19
0
6 , 2 , 6 , 6 , 6 , 3
6
UMHB
16
0
3 , 7 , 2 , 4
7
Belhaven
10
0
7 , 6 , 5 , 7 , 7 , 6

Also Receiving Votes:
Averett (2)

Newly Ranked: None
Dropped Out: None

1 = 1st Place Vote, 7 = 7th Place Vote in Voter Breakdown
Special Thanks to the Voters: jknezek, BSCpanthers, Wild Horse Rider, Ralph Turner, Cowboy2, Hawks88


Big games this week:

It's 1vsT2 in Georgia, as Trinity travels to Berry.
It's 4vs5 in Texas as Hardin-Simmons hosts Howard Payne




7
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective
« on: September 24, 2023, 06:01:52 pm »


On a more pessimistic note, this place may not just be dying, but already dead.  Very minimal activity, during two big days of soccer, now 3-4 weeks into the season.  Maybe a few of us keep frantically trying to defibrillate the patient well past any meaningful chance of a revival.  There has been the suggestion that traffic and interest would increase if some of the more active posters like myself took up less space and grabbed some pine.  I don't think that is it, but certainly anything is worth trying at this juncture.  The medium in part may be just too anachronistic, but I don't know of other options where posters can react and respond and a whole community of lurkers and posters can see the content and jump in or not. 

3-4 weeks in and we haven't heard a single word about D3soccer.com.  We knew last year was the last year for incumbent owners, but we literally have not seen anything about the status of ownership, why there hasn't been a transfer, and why a site can't be created with D3soccer.com or something very similar updated to the 2020s that includes a good message board platform.

You may have neard crickets because there is no transfer. Who wants to take this on? I can't imagine the site traffic and advertising covered the costs.

8
Region 3 football (South Atlantic-ish) / Re: FB: Region 3 fan poll
« on: September 23, 2023, 07:49:18 am »
Somehow I still expect Trinity won’t be a unanimous vote this week. Embarrassing effort by HSU. Expect UMHB to roll over them, despite their start. But Howard Payne might roll UMHB.

Well... given a decent win, they will get my vote back. I was really wrong in my thoughts on both Hardin-Simmons and Endicott.

9
4 turnovers and an inability to move the ball through the air at all according to the stats. yikes. Anyone know what the travel arrangements were?

QB1 injured very early, tried to play a few series but had no lower body support, QB 2 not ready for prime time, QB 3 not ready for any time.

Unfortunately injuries are part of the game. Endicott is a good team. Either a lot better than I expected or Hardin-Simmons is not as good as I thought. Probably both to be fair...

10
4 turnovers and an inability to move the ball through the air at all according to the stats. yikes. Anyone know what the travel arrangements were?

11
Endicott is playing inspired football. They are leading 24-3 with 6:58 in the 3rd Q.

Good thing I'm not a betting man, I'd have lost a lot on this game.

12
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective
« on: September 22, 2023, 04:31:25 pm »

Agree with all of this even if it doesn't really assess the significance (or lack thereof) of that 2014 match.

And since you brought it up, why DO you live in Alabama lol??!

Probably because I don't consider that particular match all that significant for Messiah. More so for Tufts because I agree it's easier to win when you already have proven you can do it. Breaking through is hard. But I think around that time, and I'm surprised it didn't happen a few years earlier, the democratization of D3 soccer was in full swing. I just think Messiah had such a mystique that it took a few years longer than it should have for the mystique to diminish as talent spread. And yes, I mean diminish. There is still a mystique about Messiah, well-earned as they are one of the best and, in my opinion, consistently the most beautiful team to watch in D3.

And I live in AL because my job is here. I left the north east for South Florida for a job, lived there for a few years, met and married my wife there, and then the office was closed and we were moved up here. Alabama has it's good points and it's bad points, like everywhere else, but I will forever be a yankee to the people here. And even my kids, born here, will always be outsiders since they were born to a yankee. I do, however, find living in a drastically different part of the country from where I grew up very broadening and helpful. It helps explain a lot about our nation right now.

13
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective
« on: September 22, 2023, 04:13:24 pm »
Btw, this a question for some of the old-timers (and anyone)...and please chime in if you think this is hyperbolic and/or unfair.

Tufts was not better than Messiah in 2014...very, very good and that day good enough but 2012-2014 Messiah had just fantastic teams who I would guess could have finished mid-table or better in the Patriot League.  Tufts scored like in the first minute.  Messiah cleared a ball to only outside the 18 where Tufts legend and midfield maestro, Jason Kayne, one-timed a half-volley top shelf.  Messiah threw the kitchen sink at Tufts but could not break through to score.  Messiah fans will point out that the match was played on Muhlenberg's infamous turf.

So the question...was that game/moment program-altering (and even D3 landscape-altering) for either, both, or none.  I don't think it takes a lot of hyperbole to say all three. 

Tufts experienced the feeling of being a champion (barely, barely got a bid that year too), and went on to win three more in a four year period (a feat only Messiah had matched or exceeded at least in the past 25 years).  Not saying Tufts didn't have great players and they obviously has a brilliant coach, but I think winning that game changed the Jumbo culture, just like with Messiah, winning every single year became the expectation.

Messiah has won only once title since that game when at worst they probably were supposed to win every other year.  The next year of 2015 Amherst won.  Then Tufts won again in 2016.  Messiah won in 2017...a year when I think Tufts got knocked out of Bello Field by Brandeis in double OT that at least most of Tufts Nation considered fluky.  Then back to Tufts for 2018 and 2019.  And after Covid year, Conn Coll and Chicago have claimed titles.  We at least currently are in a new era where there isn't an almost automatic endorsement of Messiah vs The Field.

In truth, I doubt Messiah has changed much at all, but maybe has forced Falcon Nation to calibrate things a little differently.

And certainly the overall landscape still has its favorites every year, but the sense that you don't have to be Messiah (or Tufts) to win a title imo has really opened things up.

I think this is a long answer with a lot of factors.

For my money I think the "elite tier" of D3 soccer has just gotten broader and flatter, while the second tier has gotten so much larger. Messiah in the 00s and early teens was constantly in the top tier, but that top tier, the teams that could legitimately win a title, was maybe a cast of 4 or 5 schools that rotated, but Messiah was always there. By the start of the teens, I think that tier had expanded to 8 teams, with 4 or 5 being there regularly, or at least spending a considerable number of years in a row there. Now I think that tier is closer to 12, with 4 or 5 that are there consistently and then a rotating group.

As that group expands, and frankly the second tier gets deeper in quality, the odds of "upsets" increases, especially in a low scoring game like soccer that is not really the best for single-elimination tournaments. I don't think you are ever going to see another run like Messiah from 2000-2014. 10/14 championships in an NCAA style tournament is a dominance that I don't think, the way talent is evaluated and dispersed now, will ever be repeated.

Personally, any team that can win 2 titles in 5 years, with other years being Elite 8 or better, is probably a dynasty. I find Tufts run of 4 in 6 years to be almost comically against the odds these days. I can see teams winning back to back again, you get that special group of players and they win as mostly juniors and again as seniors. But beyond that? There is so much talent available, and so many more schools with the ability to find it.

I suspect Messiah will remain among the elites, but I suspect a championship every 5 years, maybe a repeat once in every 10 years, is going to be a darn good mark for D3 dynasties.

Now, why do I think this is true? Because the players across the country are so much better. My home town soccer club in NJ was founded in 1976. Those kids, from that very first year of inexperienced dads inspired by the NASL, went to college in the late 80s, early 90s. It was one of 4 clubs in two counties. I started playing in 1983 at 5 years old, and the league had grown to 12 clubs, and I promise you, every one of our coaches still had no idea what soccer was. The refs were all immigrants, and tactics were non-existent. My dad was watching VHS "learn to coach soccer" tapes in 1985, and he was still watching them while coaching me in 1994, just going up in age.

We had no clue how to play soccer and, except for the 1994 World Cup it wasn't on TV. I remember my dad hiring a soccer "tutor" for several members of our team when I was about 10, all the parents chipped in. It was a 70 year old Italian guy we couldn't understand who spent an hour with us and told us we couldn't beat 7 year olds in "the old country" and we weren't playing soccer, just kickball, and he wasn't able to coach such incompetence. We were runner-up NJ State Champs at the time.

When I went to W&L, class of 2000, it wasn't the tactics that kept me on the bench, they were no better than what I had picked up playing select and at various summer camps and in h.s., it was the athleticism. I had a good "soccer mind" for the time, having watched as many videos as my dad, but I couldn't kick and run with the college crowd. And I guarantee almost no one in D3 was looking for David Beckham, they were looking for Cobi Jones.

Contrast that to today, where the local club where I live now, required completion of all the U.S. Soccer grassroots classes to coach a 5 year old rec league team. In Alabama! A state where soccer is still often considered a communist plot. You want to coach an entry level travel team? D license. You want to coach a select travel team? C License. Every travel coach is paid, they share at least two teams in season, often 3, with assistants that coach away games.

In other words, these kids playing today have learned to play soccer. Maybe not as well as the rest of the world, with their academy systems that cover huge swathes of the country while ours covers a few urban areas, but they have learned more by 10 about "football" than I ever learned about "soccer". And the ones playing D3 aren't just the kids that made a h.s. team and could run. The recruiting process is different, the newer coaches are different, the pool is bigger, and schools like Messiah, with their wonderful recruiting niches, can get players they never dreamed of 20 years ago, but so can so many other schools.

I expect it will continue to get harder, and I suspect more and different schools will push through to the Elite 8. Not just because tournament soccer can be fluky, but because the barriers to good players have fallen and more and more good coaches grow up from the generations after mine that actually learned how to play football.

14
Men's soccer / Re: 2023 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective
« on: September 22, 2023, 11:03:28 am »
(Is it bad that I subconsciously root against Mary Wash because driving through Fredericksburg on I95 is like dipping a toe into Hades?)

Dirty little secret of mine is that I root against my local h.s. football team because when they are good, Friday night home games make a mess of me being able to go anywhere. When they are bad, it's much more manageable. When my daughter starts marching in the band next year I'll have to change my tune, but for 15 years I've been rooting against them. Probably get me murdered down here in AL if the neighbors knew.

15
And one more post just because I'm having fun today.

W&L, all-time, is 547-550-39. The Generals are 3 games away from .500. That might not seem like a big deal, but it is. The last time W&L was .500 over it's history, was more than 50 years ago, in 1971 when they were 295-295-35. At one point, in the early to mid-2000s, W&L was 43 games below .500. So in the last 20 years, roughly, we have been +40. I'm really hoping to see the Generals break that .500 mark for all time.

So what changed? Well, we started playing more option, eventually going almost all option. I know some people hate the option. Hate watching it, hate playing against it. But running the option has given W&L a big boost, especially in ODAC play. It allows W&L to recruit athletes differently, and it has been a smart choice.

For many years W&L failed at trying to be better by going strength on strength. It hardly worked. Being better by being different... that has been a different story. Will it get W&L to the top of D3? I very much doubt it. At some point, teams have the athletes to simply smother the option. It's also challenging to win the first game of the season, or a game where a team is coming off a bye, as they get extra practice against the scheme. But for most weeks of the season, it has proven an advantage.

Sometimes the Generals capitalize on it, almost 40x more than they haven't over the last 20yrs. Sometimes either the other teams smother it or the playmakers just aren't there for a year or two. But overall, I enjoy W&L being different, and I certainly have enjoyed the winning that has come with it.

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