Title: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2005, 10:46:26 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2005, 10:46:26 PM
Yeah, but NJCU and Bethany both lost by MORE than 15 ... so mark TWO DOWN for the bumblers. <BR> <BR>Maryville could usually compete straight up in pool C, but MOST of the pool Bs have been pretty pathetic over the years. <BR> <BR>(Message edited by cabonney on March 3, 2005)
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: WooScotsFan on March 03, 2005, 10:46:43 PM
Post by: WooScotsFan on March 03, 2005, 10:46:43 PM
Good win for Maryville tonight but the other two "B's" stumbled badly tonight.
John Carroll crushed Bethany by a 76-48 score and Virginia Wesleyan dominated New Jersey City by a 76-57 count.
John Carroll crushed Bethany by a 76-48 score and Virginia Wesleyan dominated New Jersey City by a 76-57 count.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: WooScotsFan on March 03, 2005, 10:48:18 PM
Post by: WooScotsFan on March 03, 2005, 10:48:18 PM
Cabonney -- you beat my post by seconds! 
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2005, 10:52:15 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2005, 10:52:15 PM
WSF,
I'm CONSTANTLY losing out to others by a hair - great that I FINALLY got in the first post!
I'm CONSTANTLY losing out to others by a hair - great that I FINALLY got in the first post!
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2005, 10:52:31 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2005, 10:52:31 PM
If some of y'all could find a couple of good teams and schools to join the Great South conference so Maryville can qualify some other way, we can go ahead and do away with Pool B!
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2005, 03:01:27 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2005, 03:01:27 AM
Scottiedoug, I think that most years Maryville is good enough to earn an at-large bid even if there was no Pool B.
I honestly don't think that most people consider Maryville to be a part of the Bumblin' B fraternity in anything other than a procedural sense. Scots fans such as yourself should therefore not take all the Posting Up razzing about Pool B's perennial ineptitude to heart.
I honestly don't think that most people consider Maryville to be a part of the Bumblin' B fraternity in anything other than a procedural sense. Scots fans such as yourself should therefore not take all the Posting Up razzing about Pool B's perennial ineptitude to heart.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2005, 11:47:37 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2005, 11:47:37 AM
For what it's worth, NJCU was down by 6-10 most of the second half. The game got away from them in the final two minutes. They were competitive.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 04, 2005, 12:13:15 PM
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 04, 2005, 12:13:15 PM
Good broadcast last night Pat, you and Ira did a nice job. Abe Williams missing was part of the difference, but injuries happen and you have to deal with them. I feel sorry for Abe missing out on playing in an NCAA tournament game; you never know when you will get another. If the was played in Jersey City it could have been different. I read quotes by both Mark Washington and Coach Brown, the Knights were just outplayed, VWC deserved to win. Good luck to them, and thankfully NJCU is back in the NJAC next season.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: scottiedoug on March 04, 2005, 04:43:39 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 04, 2005, 04:43:39 PM
Gregory Sager: Thanks. I have gotten over taking offense. There is no reason I can think of why there could not be several competitive teams in and from Pool B, and there may have been this year. I would trust Pat about NJCU and who knows about Lincoln.
It would be helpful if Maryville were to go deep. I think they have been competitive in the tournament lately even in losing on the road (to Hanover and John Carroll), but we really need to beat some of the teams generally thought to be top tier. That would mean beating Mississippi College Saturday and then beating someone else! If the Scots play as well as they did last night, such is possible.
It would be helpful if Maryville were to go deep. I think they have been competitive in the tournament lately even in losing on the road (to Hanover and John Carroll), but we really need to beat some of the teams generally thought to be top tier. That would mean beating Mississippi College Saturday and then beating someone else! If the Scots play as well as they did last night, such is possible.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2005, 04:54:22 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2005, 04:54:22 PM
Pat, I didn't really think of NJCU as Bumblin' B material, either. I simply thought of them all season as an NJAC team on a sabbatical.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 04, 2005, 04:55:36 PM
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 04, 2005, 04:55:36 PM
Lincoln was a hot or cold team like NJCU, when they were on they could play with anyone in the country when they weren't they had a hard time with mediocre teams. Lincoln needs to align themselves with a decent conference and they will be alright, good core of players but need consistent competition to take the next step.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: scotswin on March 04, 2005, 07:09:51 PM
Post by: scotswin on March 04, 2005, 07:09:51 PM
How did Lincoln do in that other tournament?
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2005, 08:05:11 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2005, 08:05:11 PM
Lost in the first round.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ira Thor, NJCU SID on March 05, 2005, 10:50:01 PM
Post by: Ira Thor, NJCU SID on March 05, 2005, 10:50:01 PM
Thanks Mike. Broadcasting a game with Pat was a once in a lifetime experience
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: scottiedoug on March 05, 2005, 11:02:59 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 05, 2005, 11:02:59 PM
Well I guess I'll be chattin' with y'all again next year, when once again Maryville will be contending for a B spot. Maybe next year we can go deeper. Mississippi College is a handful!!
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: David Collinge on March 06, 2005, 01:32:52 PM
Post by: David Collinge on March 06, 2005, 01:32:52 PM
The B-team finishes up with a 1-3 tourney record, broken down as 1-1 vs. Pool A and 0-2 vs. Pool C. For those keeping score at home!
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 06, 2005, 11:23:52 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 06, 2005, 11:23:52 PM
Knightstalker:
I couldn't agree with you more with Lincoln finding a conference to compete in. Lately Lincoln has played teams in the CAC,CUNY, MAC Freedom, NJAC, and other independents. Unfortunately, playing a "hodge podge" schedule, cause a program to play up or down to the level of competition.
I couldn't agree with you more with Lincoln finding a conference to compete in. Lately Lincoln has played teams in the CAC,CUNY, MAC Freedom, NJAC, and other independents. Unfortunately, playing a "hodge podge" schedule, cause a program to play up or down to the level of competition.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2005, 12:02:39 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2005, 12:02:39 AM
NJLincoln, which conference might be the best match for Lincoln, e.g., geographic, historical rivals, "mission/vision", etc.?
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 07, 2005, 10:36:39 AM
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 07, 2005, 10:36:39 AM
Geographically Lincoln would be a fit with the NJAC (a bit of a drive but not horrible) and all the Mid-Atlantic region conferences. I don't know where they would fit philosophically and academically though. I wouldn't mind seeing them as an associate member of the NJAC for basketball, they would be a nice fit as far as that goes, but it would cause the conference to have an uneven number of teams. After looking at their website possibly the UAA?
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Chris Pae on March 07, 2005, 10:49:55 AM
Post by: Chris Pae on March 07, 2005, 10:49:55 AM
IMO, The UAA is academically snobby. The only other DIII schools that I could being invited are Johns Hopkins (already tried it out, didn't fully commit, and backed out), MIT and Tufts. They're looking for private, research universities located in major metropolitan areas. I think they are set for a while.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 07, 2005, 10:58:42 AM
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 07, 2005, 10:58:42 AM
I looked further at Lincoln and I realized they were a state school, I had thought they were private. I was going more on who some of the alumni were. They are definitely a school that needs a conference. I looked at teams they have played since 89 and they don't seem to be afraid of many schools, seems like they will take any games they can get. I would hate to see them join a conference like the NEAC, they would destroy most of those guys and it would be a step down from the schedule they play now.
(Message edited by knightstalker on March 7, 2005)
(Message edited by knightstalker on March 7, 2005)
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2005, 02:59:52 PM
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2005, 02:59:52 PM
What about the PAC for Lincoln? They have 9 schools in the men's basketball competition. 10 is a nice even number for them. There are some very competitive schools and not too much of a drive.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2005, 08:26:20 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2005, 08:26:20 PM
Hoops Fan, Immaculata is adding Men's Hoops in 2005-06, if I remember correctly. The women are at 12 teams and the men become 10 next year. Lincoln might make it too uneven, unless there is movement by Rosemont and Cedar Crest into the AWCC, which is losing Chestnut Hill to the NEAC and could use the extra 2 teams to keep the AQ. (I am going off my memory on some of these things, corrections appreciated.)
Lincoln as the extra team might allow the PennAC some geographic flexibility to split into divisions, 6 & 7. My bias is that a championship in a 6-8 team division is a meaningful accomplishment, and then allow the conference champ to come from a post-season tourney. The more winners, the better.
) Lincoln as the extra team might allow the PennAC some geographic flexibility to split into divisions, 6 & 7. My bias is that a championship in a 6-8 team division is a meaningful accomplishment, and then allow the conference champ to come from a post-season tourney. The more winners, the better.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 08, 2005, 09:22:47 AM
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 08, 2005, 09:22:47 AM
Thanks Ralph, as always you have a broader view of the whole thing. I knew there was probably some difference in teams in other sports. I was just looking at men's basketball and the fit seemed just a bit too good to not be done already.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 08, 2005, 09:29:19 AM
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 08, 2005, 09:29:19 AM
Looking for other options and coming up short. It seems the PennAC is the best fit for Lincoln. I think if they could get a Baptist Bible to join as well, at least for men's basketball, it would give them twelve teams and two more schools that fit well with the conference. Baptist Bible already plays several of the PAC teams regularly. I don't think that would be too much of a stretch.
I'm not sure Lincoln could find a league to get all of their teams into in their geographic region. They may just have to focus on the programs that are excelling.
I'm not sure Lincoln could find a league to get all of their teams into in their geographic region. They may just have to focus on the programs that are excelling.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2005, 09:34:39 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2005, 09:34:39 AM
Hoopsfan, Baptist Bible is going into the NEAC next year as well.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2005, 10:26:20 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2005, 10:26:20 AM
Ralph, Knightstalker, Hoops Fan, & Chris:
Geographically, I think the PAC would be a good, however the NJAC plays a similiar type of game. You're right Lincoln plays anyone including DII Bowie State. This is the first year the BBall team has had this type of success. Historically Lincoln has won approximately 16 NCAA championships in Track & Field (Indoor and Outdoor).
With regard to public/private status, Lincoln is a state related school much like Temple and University of Pittsburgh and Penn State. Licoln receives some state funding, but has it own Board of Trustee.
Founded in 1854, Some prominent alumni are Former Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, Poets/WritersLangston Hughes and Melvin Tolson, Kwame Nkrumah, Actor Roscoe Lee Brown etc.
Geographically, I think the PAC would be a good, however the NJAC plays a similiar type of game. You're right Lincoln plays anyone including DII Bowie State. This is the first year the BBall team has had this type of success. Historically Lincoln has won approximately 16 NCAA championships in Track & Field (Indoor and Outdoor).
With regard to public/private status, Lincoln is a state related school much like Temple and University of Pittsburgh and Penn State. Licoln receives some state funding, but has it own Board of Trustee.
Founded in 1854, Some prominent alumni are Former Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, Poets/WritersLangston Hughes and Melvin Tolson, Kwame Nkrumah, Actor Roscoe Lee Brown etc.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Gordon "Marco Scutaro" Mann on March 08, 2005, 03:05:05 PM
Post by: Gordon "Marco Scutaro" Mann on March 08, 2005, 03:05:05 PM
I asked Coach Yuille about the possibility that the Lions will join a conference during an interview a few weeks ago.
He mentioned discussions with the NEAC and other parties upon which he understandably didn't want to expound.
As an outsider I enjoyed the Lincoln story this year and wish them luck for the future.
He mentioned discussions with the NEAC and other parties upon which he understandably didn't want to expound.
As an outsider I enjoyed the Lincoln story this year and wish them luck for the future.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2005, 04:20:10 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2005, 04:20:10 PM
Gordon:
Thank you for your support during the past season. This was my first year online with D3. I am D3 all the way, being a Lincoln Alum and having a daughter at Salisbury.
It would really be beneficial for Lincoln to join with a conference.
Now it's time to root for Lincoln's Track & Field team and Salisbury's Lacrosse and Baseball teams. Thanks for the info this past season (on- line broadcasts).
Thank you for your support during the past season. This was my first year online with D3. I am D3 all the way, being a Lincoln Alum and having a daughter at Salisbury.
It would really be beneficial for Lincoln to join with a conference.
Now it's time to root for Lincoln's Track & Field team and Salisbury's Lacrosse and Baseball teams. Thanks for the info this past season (on- line broadcasts).
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: BJ on March 08, 2005, 04:38:16 PM
Post by: BJ on March 08, 2005, 04:38:16 PM
Actor Roscoe Lee Brown, was he in "Dukes of Hazzard?"
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2005, 05:20:00 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2005, 05:20:00 PM
BJ:
I think you meant you meant the character "Roscoe P. Coltrane" who was "Boss Hogg's Bumblin sidekick.
I think you meant you meant the character "Roscoe P. Coltrane" who was "Boss Hogg's Bumblin sidekick.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2005, 09:59:45 AM
Post by: Hoops Fan on March 09, 2005, 09:59:45 AM
Hey good use connecting Bumblin sidekick Roscoe P Coltrane to the Bumblin B's room.
Maybe from now on we can refer to them as the Roscoe's.
As in, "Man it seems Maryville is easily the best Roscoe in the country this year."
Maybe from now on we can refer to them as the Roscoe's.
As in, "Man it seems Maryville is easily the best Roscoe in the country this year."
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 09, 2005, 12:03:27 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 09, 2005, 12:03:27 PM
Hoops Fan:
We may be on to something here. Hopefully Lincoln can move away from the Roscoe's and align with a conference. I'll be glad to leave the Roscoe's to Maryville, Bethany, et al.
We may be on to something here. Hopefully Lincoln can move away from the Roscoe's and align with a conference. I'll be glad to leave the Roscoe's to Maryville, Bethany, et al.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 09, 2005, 12:09:13 PM
Post by: Mike Dougherty aka Knightstalker on March 09, 2005, 12:09:13 PM
Gegegegegegegegegegege, we gonna git them Duke boys now boss, hang onta your hat flash.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: taliban5 on March 09, 2005, 08:16:34 PM
Post by: taliban5 on March 09, 2005, 08:16:34 PM
If Lincoln joins a conference, do all programs participate in that conference? The conferences around our area are terrible in track and I prefer competing against Division 1 athletes.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2005, 09:13:21 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2005, 09:13:21 PM
Taliban5, as you probably know, Track and Field national qualifications are different. Lincoln may dominate a conference (as McMurry has dominated the ASC), but those athletes (and I assume you are a T&F athlete) are looking at nationals.
McMurry's indoor and outdoor schedules include frequent meets at Texas Tech and at the Texas Relays. I am sure the Lincoln athletes would still go the Penn Relays and others. Times and distances translate across NCAA Divisions. (McMurry's national champion triple jumper Darcell Edwards competed in the 2004 Women's Olympic Trials.)
I hope that Lincoln can find a conference.
McMurry's indoor and outdoor schedules include frequent meets at Texas Tech and at the Texas Relays. I am sure the Lincoln athletes would still go the Penn Relays and others. Times and distances translate across NCAA Divisions.
(McMurry's national champion triple jumper Darcell Edwards competed in the 2004 Women's Olympic Trials.) I hope that Lincoln can find a conference.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 10, 2005, 10:49:38 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 10, 2005, 10:49:38 AM
Taliban5 & Ralph:
I understand Lincoln's junior Eric Ray (the defending NCAA DIII indoor Long Jump Champion)was originally recruited by George Washington University for Basketball and plans to play for the 2005-06 Lions Basketball team.
I hope Lincoln aligns with a conference. I think overall it would be better for the university.
By the way Taliban5, I thought one of Lincoln's former sprinters (from Pittsburgh) tried out for the US Olympic team for Athens.
I understand Lincoln's junior Eric Ray (the defending NCAA DIII indoor Long Jump Champion)was originally recruited by George Washington University for Basketball and plans to play for the 2005-06 Lions Basketball team.
I hope Lincoln aligns with a conference. I think overall it would be better for the university.
By the way Taliban5, I thought one of Lincoln's former sprinters (from Pittsburgh) tried out for the US Olympic team for Athens.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2005, 07:56:27 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 06, 2005, 07:56:27 PM
Thomas More to the Pres AC looks like the move of one bid from Pool B to Pool A. The Bumblers continue to dwindle!
My guess is that they move in 2006-07 and the NCAA smiles upon the the move, altho' I would not complain if they could get a full schedule in basketball done in 2005-06.
My guess is that they move in 2006-07 and the NCAA smiles upon the the move, altho' I would not complain if they could get a full schedule in basketball done in 2005-06.
Title: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 22, 2005, 08:38:06 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 22, 2005, 08:38:06 AM
Pool B is different in other sports.
Linfield won the Stagg Bowl as a Pool B. Chapman is going to the D3 World Series from the West Region as a Pool B.
Mary Washington and Salisbury were fighting it out as Pool B's in baseball as well. Will follow this.
Linfield won the Stagg Bowl as a Pool B. Chapman is going to the D3 World Series from the West Region as a Pool B.
Mary Washington and Salisbury were fighting it out as Pool B's in baseball as well. Will follow this.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 07, 2005, 01:58:17 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 07, 2005, 01:58:17 PM
Hey Ralph:
I see what you meant with Lincoln's "mileage plus" program this year. I have to wonder what Coach Yuille was taking ??? to come up with such an ambitious schedule and with so many games away. Yuille really did shy away from the tough guys. I guess he really wants to get the program some attention. I'm glad his has three starters returning led by All American Kyle Myrick, as he will need the supporting group to step it up.
At least with them travelling, I'll get to see them more in person. I see them again at Lehman, where I saw them win at last season. Additionally I get the to see them at John Jay and the tournament at Manhattenville :).
Can't wait for them to roll out the balls!
I see what you meant with Lincoln's "mileage plus" program this year. I have to wonder what Coach Yuille was taking ??? to come up with such an ambitious schedule and with so many games away. Yuille really did shy away from the tough guys. I guess he really wants to get the program some attention. I'm glad his has three starters returning led by All American Kyle Myrick, as he will need the supporting group to step it up.
At least with them travelling, I'll get to see them more in person. I see them again at Lehman, where I saw them win at last season. Additionally I get the to see them at John Jay and the tournament at Manhattenville :).
Can't wait for them to roll out the balls!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2005, 08:00:59 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 16, 2005, 08:00:59 AM
The anticipated return to Pool B by the Northern Illinois-Iowa conference is bad news for Pool B. Rockford and Aurora could pick off the first 2 slots, if they repeat their 2002-03 performances.
That puts incredible pressure on the Pres AC teams and maybe even Maryville, if they get some pressure from their GSAC foes or Lincoln improves or someone in the NEAC runs ahead of the pack!
This is the state of Pool B for a couple of years. The Pres AC will likely move to Pool A in 2007-08. The NEAC will likely be there that year, too. Depending on the way the Lake Michigan-NIIC realignment goes, the NIIC teams will be re-distributed to the SLAIC (Eureka) and the new conference (with the possible exception of Clarke as we have heard) in the next 2-3 years. By 2009, Pool B will be the GSAC 5 plus a few scattered independents. The AQs, especially in basketball, seems to be driving conference formation and consolidation. :)
That puts incredible pressure on the Pres AC teams and maybe even Maryville, if they get some pressure from their GSAC foes or Lincoln improves or someone in the NEAC runs ahead of the pack!
This is the state of Pool B for a couple of years. The Pres AC will likely move to Pool A in 2007-08. The NEAC will likely be there that year, too. Depending on the way the Lake Michigan-NIIC realignment goes, the NIIC teams will be re-distributed to the SLAIC (Eureka) and the new conference (with the possible exception of Clarke as we have heard) in the next 2-3 years. By 2009, Pool B will be the GSAC 5 plus a few scattered independents. The AQs, especially in basketball, seems to be driving conference formation and consolidation. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: wilburt on October 16, 2005, 04:10:17 PM
Post by: wilburt on October 16, 2005, 04:10:17 PM
Dr. Turner help me understand this new tourney format.
If the NCAA ratio is still 6.5 schools per 1 tourney bid, then why are there only 4 Pool B bids this season for (by my count) 41 Pool B eligible schools?
I understand the Pool C schools getting screwed, but they have at least one shot at the tourney with their conference automatic bid, and possible two with a Pool C bid, whereas the Pool B teams only have one shot at the tourney.
Can you clarify for me my good friend? BTW, Fisk has all of their starters returning from last season... Wm Burton
If the NCAA ratio is still 6.5 schools per 1 tourney bid, then why are there only 4 Pool B bids this season for (by my count) 41 Pool B eligible schools?
I understand the Pool C schools getting screwed, but they have at least one shot at the tourney with their conference automatic bid, and possible two with a Pool C bid, whereas the Pool B teams only have one shot at the tourney.
Can you clarify for me my good friend? BTW, Fisk has all of their starters returning from last season... Wm Burton
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 04:27:52 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 16, 2005, 04:27:52 PM
The automatic bids are on a ratio of one to every 9.22 schools, based on the number of teams in automatic-bid conferences and the bids available. You'll note that's similar to the 4-to-41 ratio, which is not an accident.
Then both those leftovers and the B leftovers have an equal shot at the Pool C bids.
Then both those leftovers and the B leftovers have an equal shot at the Pool C bids.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 10:29:09 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 17, 2005, 10:29:09 AM
The 6.5 is the NCAA fallback number. I think they really could care less how the bids are divided up. 37 conferences qualify, so that establishes a 9.22 (I figured 9.24, but I'll defer to Pat; it makes no difference to the numbers either way) ratio, which only gives the B's 4 bids. However, as Pat also mentioned, the extra pool B's are thrown into Pool C, which, with the expanded Pool C, actually might make one or two of them competitive. Certainly 18 Pool C bids last year would have produced at least one from Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2005, 02:52:17 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2005, 02:52:17 PM
Hoops Fan:
Glad to see on the board. I hope the Lincoln Lions pick up from where they left off last year (with the obvious exception of the two losses in post seasons tournaments). Lincoln blew it (NCAA tourney) with the two losses to NJCU
:( .
As Ralph pointed out the Lions will be travelling alot this year.
Glad to see on the board. I hope the Lincoln Lions pick up from where they left off last year (with the obvious exception of the two losses in post seasons tournaments). Lincoln blew it (NCAA tourney) with the two losses to NJCU
:( .
As Ralph pointed out the Lions will be travelling alot this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2005, 02:54:05 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2005, 02:54:05 PM
wilburt:
Nice to see a fellow HBCU on the board. I believe you have a guard from NJ on your squad.
Nice to see a fellow HBCU on the board. I believe you have a guard from NJ on your squad.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2005, 10:59:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 21, 2005, 10:59:37 PM
This is my first chance to review the Handbook for Pool B's for 2005-06.
Pragmatically, I have broken conferences out of their Regional designations.
NEAC--9 teams (Bard, Cazenovia, D'Youville and Keuka from the East; Polytechnic from the Atlantic and Baptist Bible, Chestnut Hill, Phila Bible and Villa Julie from the Mid-Atlantic plus provisionals Keystone and PSU-Berks, active in 08-09 and SUNY-Purchase, active in 09-10.)
Pres AC-- 7 teams Should be active as Pool A in 07-08 season.
Northern Illinois-Iowa Conf -- 6 teams (4 going to the "new" Lake Michigan Conference, Eureka to the SLIAC and Clarke rumored to go independent.)
Great South AC-- 5 teams Not an official conference because there are only 5 men's teams. There are currently 7 women's teams in the conference and Spelman becomes active next as the 8th women's.
Upper Midwest AC -- 3 teams (appears to have declared for the NCAA this year. This conference has provisionals Crown and UM-Morris active in 08-09, Northwestern MN, Presentation and Bethany Lutheran in 09-10.)
True Independents (9):
Mid-Atlantic Region: (1) Lincoln
Northeast Region: (2) Newbury and St Joseph ME
South Region: (2) UDallas, Rust
West Region: (4) UC-Santa Cruz, Chapman, Colorado College and Neb Wesleyan.
Pragmatically, I have broken conferences out of their Regional designations.
NEAC--9 teams (Bard, Cazenovia, D'Youville and Keuka from the East; Polytechnic from the Atlantic and Baptist Bible, Chestnut Hill, Phila Bible and Villa Julie from the Mid-Atlantic plus provisionals Keystone and PSU-Berks, active in 08-09 and SUNY-Purchase, active in 09-10.)
Pres AC-- 7 teams Should be active as Pool A in 07-08 season.
Northern Illinois-Iowa Conf -- 6 teams (4 going to the "new" Lake Michigan Conference, Eureka to the SLIAC and Clarke rumored to go independent.)
Great South AC-- 5 teams Not an official conference because there are only 5 men's teams. There are currently 7 women's teams in the conference and Spelman becomes active next as the 8th women's.
Upper Midwest AC -- 3 teams (appears to have declared for the NCAA this year. This conference has provisionals Crown and UM-Morris active in 08-09, Northwestern MN, Presentation and Bethany Lutheran in 09-10.)
True Independents (9):
Mid-Atlantic Region: (1) Lincoln
Northeast Region: (2) Newbury and St Joseph ME
South Region: (2) UDallas, Rust
West Region: (4) UC-Santa Cruz, Chapman, Colorado College and Neb Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: wilburt on October 22, 2005, 02:22:11 PM
Post by: wilburt on October 22, 2005, 02:22:11 PM
Hey njlincolnlion fellow HBCU.
The guy from NJ was a PG we had on the team graduated after last season. He was a bright kid (graduated Top 10% of his high school class and I think cum laude from FISK).
It has been a few years since Lincoln played FISK, but it would be nice if both schools made the NCAA tourney this season. Both teams came close last season but tapered off towards the end of the season.
Wm Burton aka wilburt
The guy from NJ was a PG we had on the team graduated after last season. He was a bright kid (graduated Top 10% of his high school class and I think cum laude from FISK).
It has been a few years since Lincoln played FISK, but it would be nice if both schools made the NCAA tourney this season. Both teams came close last season but tapered off towards the end of the season.
Wm Burton aka wilburt
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 24, 2005, 03:32:14 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 24, 2005, 03:32:14 PM
wilbert:
Perhaps our respective AD's could possibly look into a holiday tournament that both Lincoln and Fisk could play, and possibly meet. Lincoln lost two close close games to New Jersey City University (formerly Jersey City State) that sealed the Lions NCAA's fate. Lincoln has an All American guard Kyle Myrick coming back, so hopefully we'll make the NCAA tournament this year. Our schedule is tough with many games on the road, so it will be a daunting task.
Good luck to FISK this year.
Perhaps our respective AD's could possibly look into a holiday tournament that both Lincoln and Fisk could play, and possibly meet. Lincoln lost two close close games to New Jersey City University (formerly Jersey City State) that sealed the Lions NCAA's fate. Lincoln has an All American guard Kyle Myrick coming back, so hopefully we'll make the NCAA tournament this year. Our schedule is tough with many games on the road, so it will be a daunting task.
Good luck to FISK this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: wilburt on October 26, 2005, 08:17:15 AM
Post by: wilburt on October 26, 2005, 08:17:15 AM
Hey njlincolnlion:
Fisk last played Lincoln during the 2002-03 season during a Holiday tournament. Fisk has all of their starters back this season from a 16-10 team, so we expect to compete for a NCAA tourney bid as well.
Like Lincoln our schedule is tough as well. In November and December, Fisk plays our annual rivalry game with D1 Tennessee State, and on the road against #2 ranked Mississippi College and on the road against Randolph-Macon (defending regular season ODAC champs) in the Holiday tourney. If we can make it through the non-conference schedule at .500, I'll be happy!
Good Luck to Lincoln as well!
Fisk last played Lincoln during the 2002-03 season during a Holiday tournament. Fisk has all of their starters back this season from a 16-10 team, so we expect to compete for a NCAA tourney bid as well.
Like Lincoln our schedule is tough as well. In November and December, Fisk plays our annual rivalry game with D1 Tennessee State, and on the road against #2 ranked Mississippi College and on the road against Randolph-Macon (defending regular season ODAC champs) in the Holiday tourney. If we can make it through the non-conference schedule at .500, I'll be happy!
Good Luck to Lincoln as well!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Coach C on October 26, 2005, 09:58:09 PM
Post by: Coach C on October 26, 2005, 09:58:09 PM
hey wilburt -
We try not to use bogus rankings around here like the S&S BS ranking. Wait a week and you can see what the D3 hoops community thinks of the teams on the schedule when the D3hoops.com poll comes out.
We try not to use bogus rankings around here like the S&S BS ranking. Wait a week and you can see what the D3 hoops community thinks of the teams on the schedule when the D3hoops.com poll comes out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: wilburt on October 27, 2005, 09:18:09 AM
Post by: wilburt on October 27, 2005, 09:18:09 AM
I'm curious to see what the D3 community thinks of Fisk and Lincoln in the rankings. They both have outstanding teams returning from relatively successful seasons last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's 04-05
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 01:13:52 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 27, 2005, 01:13:52 PM
Lincoln may get some play; they had a really top-notch squad last season, but Fisk will probably have to prove it through the season. They never have the schedule to get pre-season props and they haven't done well enough against d3 comp recently. However, they do always have talent and now some good returning experience. I don't want you to think I'm putting them down, but I'm not sure you can expect much love from the voters. I do like MC on the schedule though; its a solid d3 non-con for Fisk.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 28, 2005, 12:52:01 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 28, 2005, 12:52:01 PM
Hoops Fan:
Do you think Lincoln's "Anyone, Anyplace, Anytime" 2005-2006 scheduling mentality will hurt them? They are playing an awful lot of teams on the road, and it's not like it's the Northeast region. If the Lions do well, it should help come post season time if they make it.
Do you think Lincoln's "Anyone, Anyplace, Anytime" 2005-2006 scheduling mentality will hurt them? They are playing an awful lot of teams on the road, and it's not like it's the Northeast region. If the Lions do well, it should help come post season time if they make it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 28, 2005, 01:22:33 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 28, 2005, 01:22:33 PM
I love the mindset that an "anyone, anywhere, anytime" schedule puts on a team. If the coaching staff is really promoting an "us against the world" mentality, I think it can improve the team, especially one looking for contributors to step up. The loss of Kearse scares me, but they still have a great leader in Myrick and enough talent to fill the gaps. I'll be rooting for lincoln, but there are so many tough factors in the schedule.
The travel is going to take its toll early on. Those of us from established conferences have to get used to seeing a schedule where 80% of the games are done by the start of second semester.
They have that stretch of 4 games in 4 days (in two locations) and 6 games in 10 days. Those teams are far from pushovers. If they can survive that stretch, I think they are a serious contender regionally. And they get to find out for sure when they get back from break with a rediculous patch of tough games against the big names.
It's nice to finish out with easy teams, but with so few games in the crucial late-season stretch and really no challenges to speak of, can they keep their level of play high enough to do damage in the post-season? And can they even get to the post-season with such a loaded schedule?
I don't think the road games matter, especially as an independent. They're less of a known quantity and the coaches can play that angle up. Also, the games they needed to try and schedule at home (Messiah, Lebanon Valley) I assume are over Christmas break. So any fan coming could easily drive to York and be supportive.
It's the life of a independent, but its a good one if you can maintain a schedule like Lincoln's. It has to help with recruiting, to be able to produce quality opponents and give the team a chance for success. There shouldn't be any complaints about the QoW number if they do their job.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 07, 2005, 11:50:53 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 07, 2005, 11:50:53 AM
Salisbury's football season is over (as far as post season play) so it's on to support my alma mater in Basketball.
Go Lincoln
[/color] [/glow] Go Lions
[/color][/glow]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 11, 2005, 09:26:50 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 11, 2005, 09:26:50 AM
Looking at Lincoln's pre-season analysis, the Lions seemed to be loaded in the back court, however the front court may be the "achilles heel" for the team. It's too bad 7'2" 320lbs John Bunch (transferred to D1 Monmouth) is not around. With that said, the front court will just have to play smart this year and avoid the "foolish fouls".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on November 15, 2005, 09:55:01 AM
Post by: hopefan on November 15, 2005, 09:55:01 AM
To someone who knows - I was curious regarding a couple of the B Pool candidates - Does a B pool team whose schedule is predominanantly non NCAA D3 still have a legit chance to qualify for the tournament?
IE Chowan plays mostly D2 schools (only 5 games vs D3), and Nebraska Wesleyan plays an NAIA conference schedule (7 games vs D3). I see the rule in the D3 manual about 50% of games against in region D3 teams, but that is offset by a request for waiver provision. In reality, the B pool could be stronger than normal this year given NIIC candidates (historically Aurora, Benedictine and Rockford have been strong).
IE Chowan plays mostly D2 schools (only 5 games vs D3), and Nebraska Wesleyan plays an NAIA conference schedule (7 games vs D3). I see the rule in the D3 manual about 50% of games against in region D3 teams, but that is offset by a request for waiver provision. In reality, the B pool could be stronger than normal this year given NIIC candidates (historically Aurora, Benedictine and Rockford have been strong).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2005, 12:04:12 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2005, 12:04:12 PM
You hit it right on the head... the request for waiver provision gives the NCAA any out they want. The NIIC thing will make it very tough for Pool B teams. I think you have to assume 2 of the bids are gone to the NIIC already, based on recent history. That leaves only two others for the likes of Maryville and Lincoln and Fisk. Just be glad NJCU is back into the Pool A fold; there's one less troublemaker.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 15, 2005, 12:15:15 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 15, 2005, 12:15:15 PM
I "second" the fact that NJCU is not a "B" candidate, unfortunately, it comes a year too late for Lincoln :( . Last year Lincoln was in the mix up to the end of the season except for the two loses to NJCU.
I hope Lincoln has a great year, and the NIIC becomes a non factor for their selection to NCAA post season play.
I hope Lincoln has a great year, and the NIIC becomes a non factor for their selection to NCAA post season play.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 15, 2005, 04:21:48 PM
Post by: joe smith on November 15, 2005, 04:21:48 PM
I'm back B'ers!! I thought Bethany might get an automatic bid this year so they would qualify for an AQ or pool C but I guess they have to wait another year or two. Anyway, this team is loaded again. They return all but 2 players that went 24-4 and lost in the first round to John Carroll. Their schedule still is suspect but it did get a little more challanging. They also return their top 2 scorers in the Drahos twins who both averaged around 19 and 10 all year. They did lose 2 3-point threats in Jimmy Deep and Brandon Duncan who both combined for over 100 threes last year. The buzz around this team is that they got two transfers that are legit along with their other solid guard core from last year. look for this team to dominate thier conference again, which looks a bit weaker then past years. Definitely one of the top 4 teams in pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2005, 05:28:04 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 15, 2005, 05:28:04 PM
Good to hear you're back. We need some good reports from the Top B's.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 18, 2005, 09:06:41 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 18, 2005, 09:06:41 AM
Let The Games Begin!!!!!! Go Lincoln University Lions ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 18, 2005, 10:49:59 AM
Post by: joe smith on November 18, 2005, 10:49:59 AM
Bethany travels to Case Western tonight to play Adrian College. One of the 4 teams that beat them last year. The winner will face either Penn-State Altoona or Case. With that said looks like the best game of the weekend at Case will be the 6 o'clocker tonight. The other ones should be blow outs!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 18, 2005, 08:50:03 PM
Post by: joe smith on November 18, 2005, 08:50:03 PM
Good start for Bethany tonight crushing Adrian College 83-54. They were led by Matt Drahos who had 25 and his brother Mike who had 17.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 20, 2005, 10:19:49 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 20, 2005, 10:19:49 PM
Lincoln wins the Elizabethtown College tournament by defeating Richard Stockton in the finals. The Lions rallied from a 19 point deficit with 9 minutes 2 seconds left in the game to win by 5 points.
Go Lions
[/color]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 21, 2005, 11:03:41 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 21, 2005, 11:03:41 AM
Chapman and Nebraska Wesleyan both won a couple of games out west. I doubt there are too mnay independent contenders beyond those squads, and of course, Lincoln (big time win over King's, good luck with Albright).
Benedictine and Aurora both had big weekends as well. aurora beat McMurry and Wheaton.
Maryville started well also.
Bethany went down to Case Western.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 21, 2005, 01:51:37 PM
Post by: joe smith on November 21, 2005, 01:51:37 PM
Yea tough loss for Bethany at Case. Case will win 10 games this year if their lucky which will hurt the Bison if they're on the bubble.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2005, 11:42:46 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2005, 11:42:46 PM
Joe, my first guess at the 4 B's are Aurora, Maryville, Benedictine and Lincoln.
I think the Bison are already on the bubble. (Pool A cannot come too soon for the Pres AC. :( )
Also, the NEAC, with its 9 full members, moves to Pool A next year, and takes a bid with it.
If the NIIC-Lake Michigan merger maintains the Pool A bid of the LMC, then 4 more Pool B members from the NIIC (about half of a bid) move with them to Pool A.
We might have only 2 Pool B bids by 2007-2008!
I think the Bison are already on the bubble. (Pool A cannot come too soon for the Pres AC. :( )
Also, the NEAC, with its 9 full members, moves to Pool A next year, and takes a bid with it.
If the NIIC-Lake Michigan merger maintains the Pool A bid of the LMC, then 4 more Pool B members from the NIIC (about half of a bid) move with them to Pool A.
We might have only 2 Pool B bids by 2007-2008!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 22, 2005, 01:21:28 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 22, 2005, 01:21:28 AM
Aurora stumbled tonight, losing at home to former NIIC rival Dominican, 68-64. Dominican is much-improved, but this is the sort of game that a powerhouse program should win. Then again, in Bumblin' B Land, "powerhouse" is always a relative term.
Ralph, I wouldn't discount Nebraska Wesleyan from the Pool B equation. The Prairie Wolves play seven West Region games; they've won two of them already, and the other five are very winnable. They face:
* the ever-hapless UCSC Banana Slugs;
* St. Scholastica (whom the Prairie Wolves beat by 15 in St. Scholastica's gym up in Duluth on Friday night);
* Whitworth (which appears to be a bit down this season) in the first round of the Cal Lutheran tourney;
* either Luther or host Cal Lutheran (Luther's a bottom-half-of-the-IIAC program, and Cal Lutheran's a middling SCIAC program -- neither team would scare me if I shared a conference with such NAIA-2 national powers as preseason #1 Northwestern (IA), #5 and defending national runner-up Concordia (NE), and #18 Sioux Falls); and
* traditional archrival Colorado College (which also appears to be down this season; the Tigers were drilled by two NWC teams by a combined total of 57 points this past weekend).
I'll be surprised if Nebraska Wesleyan doesn't end the season with a 7-0 West Region record, 6-1 at the worst. In spite of a dearth of regional competition, the Prairie Wolves might end up being the gold standard of Pool B on Selection Monday.
I'll hold off on saying anything about Chapman until the Panthers play a D3 team. They face Cal Lutheran and Redlands this week.
Ralph, I wouldn't discount Nebraska Wesleyan from the Pool B equation. The Prairie Wolves play seven West Region games; they've won two of them already, and the other five are very winnable. They face:
* the ever-hapless UCSC Banana Slugs;
* St. Scholastica (whom the Prairie Wolves beat by 15 in St. Scholastica's gym up in Duluth on Friday night);
* Whitworth (which appears to be a bit down this season) in the first round of the Cal Lutheran tourney;
* either Luther or host Cal Lutheran (Luther's a bottom-half-of-the-IIAC program, and Cal Lutheran's a middling SCIAC program -- neither team would scare me if I shared a conference with such NAIA-2 national powers as preseason #1 Northwestern (IA), #5 and defending national runner-up Concordia (NE), and #18 Sioux Falls); and
* traditional archrival Colorado College (which also appears to be down this season; the Tigers were drilled by two NWC teams by a combined total of 57 points this past weekend).
I'll be surprised if Nebraska Wesleyan doesn't end the season with a 7-0 West Region record, 6-1 at the worst. In spite of a dearth of regional competition, the Prairie Wolves might end up being the gold standard of Pool B on Selection Monday.
I'll hold off on saying anything about Chapman until the Panthers play a D3 team. They face Cal Lutheran and Redlands this week.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 10:07:10 AM
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 10:07:10 AM
Lincoln sure seems to be a stong contender, bud GOD what schedule! The road trips are reminiscent of the SCAD schedules of the late 90s and early 00s.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 22, 2005, 10:10:47 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 22, 2005, 10:10:47 AM
RMC and Lincoln will meet twice this season (Wansley v. Myrick should be interesting).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 10:17:27 AM
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 10:17:27 AM
Well, it's my experience that you generally want to play Lincoln in the second semester if possible. if you know what I mean.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2005, 10:30:20 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2005, 10:30:20 AM
Gregory, are you aware of any requirements for a mininum number of D3 games against in-region D3 teams that NebWes or a UDallas or a UCSCBanana Slugs must play?
I also wonder if NebWes will try to forego any GPAC post-season tourney and try for a D3 Independents post-season tourney.
http://www.d3independents.org/
I also wonder if NebWes will try to forego any GPAC post-season tourney and try for a D3 Independents post-season tourney.
http://www.d3independents.org/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 10:51:44 AM
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 10:51:44 AM
How in the world will that tournament work? Everone gets to play who wants to and can afford to fly to a central location? Seeding? Sites?
Whew - what a mess!
C
Whew - what a mess!
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on November 22, 2005, 11:00:31 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on November 22, 2005, 11:00:31 AM
Quote from: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 10:51:44 AM
How in the world will that tournament work? Everone gets to play who wants to and can afford to fly to a central location? Seeding? Sites?
Whew - what a mess!
C
Last season NJCU played in this tournament and won it. It was held at Maine-Prescott Island and was four teams. Lincoln, NJCU, Maine Prescott and Finlandia. It is for teams that have no conference affiliation and is a good idea. The tournament win that NJCU had over Lincoln helped get NJCU into the NCAA tournament last year as a pool B team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 12:25:02 PM
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 12:25:02 PM
Presque Isle I think you mean!
How did the 4 teams get selected? i though we were talking about a post-season kind of thing.
C
How did the 4 teams get selected? i though we were talking about a post-season kind of thing.
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on November 22, 2005, 12:26:56 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on November 22, 2005, 12:26:56 PM
You are right is Presque, I was pulling the name from the top of my head. There aren't that many independents, I think they took the top four teams for the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 01:39:33 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 01:39:33 PM
There's more than one tournament, it's not national. The western one will likely feature UC Santa Cruz, Chapman, Colorado College and Nebraska Wesleyan.
Except it will involve regional games, so Chapman may not be interested. :)
Except it will involve regional games, so Chapman may not be interested. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 22, 2005, 06:09:31 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 22, 2005, 06:09:31 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 22, 2005, 10:30:20 AM
Gregory, are you aware of any requirements for a mininum number of D3 games against in-region D3 teams that NebWes or a UDallas or a UCSCBanana Slugs must play?
I also wonder if NebWes will try to forego any GPAC post-season tourney and try for a D3 Independents post-season tourney.
http://www.d3independents.org/
There's nothing in the D3 handbook about requiring a minimum number of D3 games against in-region opponents. As far as I can tell, Nebraska Wesleyan is very much eligible for postseason play in D3.
Since the GPAC postseason tourney is set up to facilitate NAIA-2 seeding, my impression is that NebWes will forego it in favor of the West Region indie tourney of which Pat spoke.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 06:14:59 PM
Post by: Coach C on November 22, 2005, 06:14:59 PM
I'll put money on Neb Wes in that one.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 22, 2005, 06:46:10 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 22, 2005, 06:46:10 PM
I did read somewhere about a required minimum of in-region games, but pehaps that was taken out for the 2006 handbook. Either way, the waiver policy is still in play. I also remember hearing that NebWes declared NCAAd3 this year already, so they will be gunning for a PoolB. Sorry to not have difinitive proof here guys, but I'm on vacation for the holiday already and don't have all my info handy.
the Eastern Indy tournament was just set up by Presque Isle, I believe. They just invited teams, but few wanted to come because there was little chance of them making it into the tournament. Finlandia was a last minute addition; I wonder if NJCU and Lincoln had to pay them anything to get them to show up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 08:20:10 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 08:20:10 PM
There's an NCAA rule at the D-III level to that extent -- it's part of the basic bylaws, not specific to a sport. Must play one-half of all games in each sport in-region.
Nebraska Wesleyan may have applied for a waiver. Not sure what that does for its eligibililty.
Nebraska Wesleyan may have applied for a waiver. Not sure what that does for its eligibililty.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2005, 01:53:08 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 23, 2005, 01:53:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on November 22, 2005, 08:20:10 PM
There's an NCAA rule at the D-III level to that extent -- it's part of the basic bylaws, not specific to a sport. Must play one-half of all games in each sport in-region.
Nebraska Wesleyan may have applied for a waiver. Not sure what that does for its eligibililty.
That explains why I didn't see it in the D3 basketball handbook.
If NebWes is declaring for D3 in terms of postseason play, they must have a waiver. In fact, since they declare for D3 every year, their waiver must be something of a pro forma annual exercise as far as the NCAA is concerned.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 23, 2005, 09:03:28 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 23, 2005, 09:03:28 AM
Ralph, Knightstalker, Gregory, Pat:
Good to see you guys back for another season of roundball. Lincoln beat Salem Int'l 87-74 at home :) and lost at Albright at the buzzer 97-96 >:( . The Lions are now 3-1.
Good to see you guys back for another season of roundball. Lincoln beat Salem Int'l 87-74 at home :) and lost at Albright at the buzzer 97-96 >:( . The Lions are now 3-1.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on November 23, 2005, 09:16:40 AM
Post by: wilburt on November 23, 2005, 09:16:40 AM
njlincolnlion
Glad to see Lincoln off to a great start! They should be ranked in the D3hoops Top 25 poll by January if they keep up this pace.
Glad to see Lincoln off to a great start! They should be ranked in the D3hoops Top 25 poll by January if they keep up this pace.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 23, 2005, 09:47:36 AM
Post by: joe smith on November 23, 2005, 09:47:36 AM
Bethany loses again to a bad Marietta team last night by 3 at home. They went undefeated at home last year That's two bad in-region losses already for the Bison. Their leading scorer Matt Dahos looks like he only played the first half. Poor foul shooting kills them again. They fall to 1-2 on the season. WOW! Couldn't be a worse start for this team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on November 23, 2005, 10:09:11 AM
Post by: Coach C on November 23, 2005, 10:09:11 AM
wilburt -
The pace will be tough to keep up given the upcoming road schedule.
C
The pace will be tough to keep up given the upcoming road schedule.
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 23, 2005, 02:56:17 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 23, 2005, 02:56:17 PM
Wilburt; Coach C:
Here's hoping that Lincoln keeps it up. The next game for Lincoln is aganist rival Cheyney (DII) at Temple on Sunday. It was Lincoln's OT win over Cheyney that got the Lions going towards their best record in school history. Hopefully the road games will allow the guys to focus on one game at a time and take care of business in the "W" columns.
Here's hoping that Lincoln keeps it up. The next game for Lincoln is aganist rival Cheyney (DII) at Temple on Sunday. It was Lincoln's OT win over Cheyney that got the Lions going towards their best record in school history. Hopefully the road games will allow the guys to focus on one game at a time and take care of business in the "W" columns.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 23, 2005, 03:02:37 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 23, 2005, 03:02:37 PM
Pat:
Just saw the article and picture on Lincoln knocking off Salem International, thanks for the publicity. Unfortunately the Lions lost by a point to Albright within the last few seconds :( . I hope Lincoln rebounds aganist DII and rival Cheyney on Sunday.
Just saw the article and picture on Lincoln knocking off Salem International, thanks for the publicity. Unfortunately the Lions lost by a point to Albright within the last few seconds :( . I hope Lincoln rebounds aganist DII and rival Cheyney on Sunday.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 10:44:42 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 23, 2005, 10:44:42 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on November 23, 2005, 03:02:37 PM
Pat:
Just saw the article and picture on Lincoln knocking off Salem International, thanks for the publicity. Unfortunately the Lions lost by a point to Albright within the last few seconds :( . I hope Lincoln rebounds aganist DII and rival Cheyney on Sunday.
We wrote that too. Both were noted on the front page within hours of their completion.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on November 25, 2005, 12:52:01 PM
Post by: wilburt on November 25, 2005, 12:52:01 PM
njlincolnlion
I think those DII games will help Lincoln in the long run... What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.
Some schools like to play cake schedules early on and they frequently get burnt at the end of the year when the intensity picks up. Case in point is Christopher Newport. They play like their first 10-15 games at HOME or something like that, and frequently peter out at the end of the year!
Anyhow, good luck to Lincoln...
I think those DII games will help Lincoln in the long run... What doesn't kill you will make you stronger.
Some schools like to play cake schedules early on and they frequently get burnt at the end of the year when the intensity picks up. Case in point is Christopher Newport. They play like their first 10-15 games at HOME or something like that, and frequently peter out at the end of the year!
Anyhow, good luck to Lincoln...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 27, 2005, 11:52:03 AM
Post by: joe smith on November 27, 2005, 11:52:03 AM
Bethany wins last night beating Keystone St. 103-89 to even their record to 2-2. They will play CMU today for the championship game of the CMU tourny. Last time Bethany faced Nate Maurer he played for Grove City and lit them up for 39 and 41.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2005, 04:26:24 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 27, 2005, 04:26:24 PM
It's just plain "Keystone", Joe, not "Keystone State". Keystone College is a private institution, not a public one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 27, 2005, 04:57:47 PM
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 27, 2005, 04:57:47 PM
Correct, GS. Keystone is a private institution in La Plume, Pennsylvania, in the 'coal-cracker' part of the state. Till several years ago, it was a two-year venue.
While the Keystone State doesn't currently have a state college named Keystone State, who's to say that someday they won't? ;)
While the Keystone State doesn't currently have a state college named Keystone State, who's to say that someday they won't? ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 27, 2005, 05:20:50 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 27, 2005, 05:20:50 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on November 27, 2005, 04:57:47 PM
While the Keystone State doesn't currently have a state college named Keystone State, who's to say that someday they won't? ;)
If so, I would say that school would have a natural archrival. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 27, 2005, 06:38:34 PM
Post by: Warren Thompson on November 27, 2005, 06:38:34 PM
OK, Pat.
Yet if the Commonwealth legislators would put Keystone State in, say, Erie, would they still be a "natural archrival" for Keystone College"?
[Kindly advise soonest ... if not sooner.]
Yet if the Commonwealth legislators would put Keystone State in, say, Erie, would they still be a "natural archrival" for Keystone College"?
[Kindly advise soonest ... if not sooner.]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 28, 2005, 10:02:51 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 28, 2005, 10:02:51 AM
wilburt:
Well Lincoln beat Cheyney (DII) and traditional rival for the second straight year 81-72, behind Kyle Myrick's 34 pts. Sophomore Foward Darryl White has a triple with 12 pts, 12 rebs, and 10 blocks.
As a side note Cheyney still holds a considerable edge in the series. During my Lincoln years, John Chaney (Temple)and C. Vivian Stringer (Rutgers), coached Cheyney's men and women's teams respectively. We also played Morgan State (with Marvin Webster, the "Human Eraser" formerly of the NY Knicks).
Hopefully the Lions will keep the momentum going tonight. Good luck to Fisk this season.
Well Lincoln beat Cheyney (DII) and traditional rival for the second straight year 81-72, behind Kyle Myrick's 34 pts. Sophomore Foward Darryl White has a triple with 12 pts, 12 rebs, and 10 blocks.
As a side note Cheyney still holds a considerable edge in the series. During my Lincoln years, John Chaney (Temple)and C. Vivian Stringer (Rutgers), coached Cheyney's men and women's teams respectively. We also played Morgan State (with Marvin Webster, the "Human Eraser" formerly of the NY Knicks).
Hopefully the Lions will keep the momentum going tonight. Good luck to Fisk this season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 28, 2005, 10:31:28 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 28, 2005, 10:31:28 AM
Pat:
Any thoughts on Lincoln's game tonight at home aganist Randolph Macon? It should be a good test for both teams, and in checking the schedule, Lincoln travels to RMC in December to play the Yellow Jackets to complete the home & home.
Any thoughts on Lincoln's game tonight at home aganist Randolph Macon? It should be a good test for both teams, and in checking the schedule, Lincoln travels to RMC in December to play the Yellow Jackets to complete the home & home.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 28, 2005, 10:44:04 AM
Post by: joe smith on November 28, 2005, 10:44:04 AM
Bethany loses yesterday by 2 late free throws to CMU. They fall to 2-3 and already have 3 region loses, and 2 to bad teams. Looks like they only have maybe 2 more tough opponents on their schedule. How bad will these early losses hurt them?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 28, 2005, 06:05:55 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 28, 2005, 06:05:55 PM
Joe, the 2 losses to bad teams means that the contribution to the QOWI will be somewhere between 0-3 points.
That kills a QOWI! Getting only 8-9 points for a win over a bad team (W-L record percentages < .333), will pull down the QOWI for a solid Pool B contender, as well. :(
IMHO, the Pool A status cannot come fast enough for the Pres AC. :)
That kills a QOWI! Getting only 8-9 points for a win over a bad team (W-L record percentages < .333), will pull down the QOWI for a solid Pool B contender, as well. :(
IMHO, the Pool A status cannot come fast enough for the Pres AC. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 28, 2005, 06:10:42 PM
Post by: joe smith on November 28, 2005, 06:10:42 PM
That's what I figured. They play d2 Wheeling jesuit tomorrow and Ohio University-Eastern Wed. which won't effect their region win/loss record, followed by Muskingum. They easily could go 3-5 with 4 region losses by next week.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2005, 01:44:40 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 29, 2005, 01:44:40 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 28, 2005, 06:05:55 PM
IMHO, the Pool A status cannot come fast enough for the Pres AC. :)
Ralph, I noticed in that article that you linked from NCAA News that Point Park University is going to become a provisional D3. Point Park is in Pittsburgh. Are they a possible future PresAC member?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 29, 2005, 09:06:18 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 29, 2005, 09:06:18 AM
Lincoln defeats Randolph-Macon 85-62 at Lincoln last night. All American Kyle Myrick finished with 33 pts to lead the Lions. The Lions held R-MC All American Wansley to 9 pts.
The Lions visit R-MC in December where I'm sure the Yellow Jackets are looking to exact some revenge.
The Lions visit R-MC in December where I'm sure the Yellow Jackets are looking to exact some revenge.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 29, 2005, 07:16:49 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 29, 2005, 07:16:49 PM
Gregory, re: Point Park. That is a good question. Let me pointificate.
I see the question coming down to football. The Pres AC has football at each campus. They are adding enough slack to cushion any AQ problems...St Vincent is adding football, TMC has it and Seton Hill has if they wish to join. Isn't Geneva rumored to be exploring the NCAA? Why add a non-football school?
The other conference that I consider for Point Park is the Allegheny Mountain CC. Now I don't know the mission/vision aspect of the schools involved, and that is at least an equal consideration. :)
I see the question coming down to football. The Pres AC has football at each campus. They are adding enough slack to cushion any AQ problems...St Vincent is adding football, TMC has it and Seton Hill has if they wish to join. Isn't Geneva rumored to be exploring the NCAA? Why add a non-football school?
The other conference that I consider for Point Park is the Allegheny Mountain CC. Now I don't know the mission/vision aspect of the schools involved, and that is at least an equal consideration. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on November 29, 2005, 07:38:50 PM
Post by: smedindy on November 29, 2005, 07:38:50 PM
I can't get a real read on the AMCC, but I think Point Park could fit in fairly well.
I do think the PAC wants football schools as well. That's why they reached for Thomas More.
I do think the PAC wants football schools as well. That's why they reached for Thomas More.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on November 29, 2005, 08:19:19 PM
Post by: joe smith on November 29, 2005, 08:19:19 PM
Bethany beats d2 Wheeling Jesuit 71-70 tonight to improve to 3-3. Wheeling Jesuit won their conference last year and made it to the d2 ncaa tourny. What a rollar coaster ride for this team early in the year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on December 01, 2005, 05:05:20 PM
Post by: Coach C on December 01, 2005, 05:05:20 PM
Well at this point, I would have to say that Lincoln looks a lot like a top 25 team.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on December 01, 2005, 09:19:52 PM
Post by: joe smith on December 01, 2005, 09:19:52 PM
Agreed Coach C!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 02, 2005, 08:57:56 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 02, 2005, 08:57:56 AM
Coach C:
Thanks for your endorsement for Lincoln's top 25 bid :) .
Thanks for your endorsement for Lincoln's top 25 bid :) .
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 02, 2005, 09:21:51 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 02, 2005, 09:21:51 AM
Thanks to Mark Simon from dehoops on an excellent article on the Lincoln Lions on the "Around The Nation" section. Coach Yuille has done a marvelous job in two years taking over for previous coach Robert Byars. It's also great that Coach Yuille is an alum, and has that extra Lincoln pride to exhort the troops on.
Mark, thanks for the info on the two transfers. Many people may not realize that Temple's John Chaney started his collegiate coaching at Cheyney before moving on to Temple. Chaney and C. Vivian Stringer (Rutgers Women BB) were at Cheyney at the same time. During those days Cheyney use to beat up on Lincoln all the time. It's good to see Chaney helping out the Lions ;D .
It was also good to see the attendance of approximately 1500 at the R-MC game. Hopefully the Coach Yuille will start a Basketball tradition akin to Coach Jones Track & Field program, where the Lion "Tracksters" (Men & Women) have won 16 DIII championships.
Good Lions, and keep the momentum up for the season.
Mark, thanks for the info on the two transfers. Many people may not realize that Temple's John Chaney started his collegiate coaching at Cheyney before moving on to Temple. Chaney and C. Vivian Stringer (Rutgers Women BB) were at Cheyney at the same time. During those days Cheyney use to beat up on Lincoln all the time. It's good to see Chaney helping out the Lions ;D .
It was also good to see the attendance of approximately 1500 at the R-MC game. Hopefully the Coach Yuille will start a Basketball tradition akin to Coach Jones Track & Field program, where the Lion "Tracksters" (Men & Women) have won 16 DIII championships.
Good Lions, and keep the momentum up for the season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: cardinalpride on December 02, 2005, 11:48:43 PM
Post by: cardinalpride on December 02, 2005, 11:48:43 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 02, 2005, 09:21:51 AMLion, I don't know how LU stacks up with the rest of the nation in hoops this year, but their track program is off the charts, tops in the country in my opinion. Especially, with there T PHI T track fraternity. That was a nice article by Mark.
Thanks to Mark Simon from dehoops on an excellent article on the Lincoln Lions on the "Around The Nation" section. Coach Yuille has done a marvelous job in two years taking over for previous coach Robert Byars. It's also great that Coach Yuille is an alum, and has that extra Lincoln pride to exhort the troops on.
Mark, thanks for the info on the two transfers. Many people may not realize that Temple's John Chaney started his collegiate coaching at Cheyney before moving on to Temple. Chaney and C. Vivian Stringer (Rutgers Women BB) were at Cheyney at the same time. During those days Cheyney use to beat up on Lincoln all the time. It's good to see Chaney helping out the Lions ;D .
It was also good to see the attendance of approximately 1500 at the R-MC game. Hopefully the Coach Yuille will start a Basketball tradition akin to Coach Jones Track & Field program, where the Lion "Tracksters" (Men & Women) have won 16 DIII championships.
Good Lions, and keep the momentum up for the season.
CP
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2005, 10:09:17 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2005, 10:09:17 PM
Cardinalpride:
Thanks for your comments on Lincoln's Track Legacy, It is something the we are very proud of, and hopefully, Coach Yuille has the Basketball team moving in that direction. So far the Lions are 7-1, including today's win.
I just found out that Lincoln has won the Roger Taylor Tournament at NC Wesleyan in Rocky Mount, NC. The Lions beat DII Chowan last night 102-92 in the first round. Chowan is the third DII program this year that Lincoln has beaten. Kyle Myrick had 35 pts. and Darryl White had 17 pts. & 11 boards.
Today Lincon beat host NC Wesleyan 113-76 in the championship game. Kyle Myrick finished with 41 pts. on 16 of 32 shots. Sami Wylie had 27 pts., and Darryl White had 11 rebs. Lincoln as a team shot 56 percent from the floor.
Thanks for your comments on Lincoln's Track Legacy, It is something the we are very proud of, and hopefully, Coach Yuille has the Basketball team moving in that direction. So far the Lions are 7-1, including today's win.
I just found out that Lincoln has won the Roger Taylor Tournament at NC Wesleyan in Rocky Mount, NC. The Lions beat DII Chowan last night 102-92 in the first round. Chowan is the third DII program this year that Lincoln has beaten. Kyle Myrick had 35 pts. and Darryl White had 17 pts. & 11 boards.
Today Lincon beat host NC Wesleyan 113-76 in the championship game. Kyle Myrick finished with 41 pts. on 16 of 32 shots. Sami Wylie had 27 pts., and Darryl White had 11 rebs. Lincoln as a team shot 56 percent from the floor.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: cardinalpride on December 05, 2005, 01:06:12 AM
Post by: cardinalpride on December 05, 2005, 01:06:12 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2005, 10:09:17 PMLion, it's good to see LU basketball doing so well. I believe your next challenge will be against Christopher Newport. They're usually good year in and year out. Are you sure Chowan is DII? Cause, we played them last year in a tournament in Myrtle Beach, SC. I could've sworn they were a DIII school. Good Luck on the rest of the season, and finding teams to play. Looks like DIII's on the east coast are scared to play you guys at your place. Myrick seems to be one hell of a player! Is he running the point?
Cardinalpride:
Thanks for your comments on Lincoln's Track Legacy, It is something the we are very proud of, and hopefully, Coach Yuille has the Basketball team moving in that direction. So far the Lions are 7-1, including today's win.
I just found out that Lincoln has won the Roger Taylor Tournament at NC Wesleyan in Rocky Mount, NC. The Lions beat DII Chowan last night 102-92 in the first round. Chowan is the third DII program this year that Lincoln has beaten. Kyle Myrick had 35 pts. and Darryl White had 17 pts. & 11 boards.
Today Lincon beat host NC Wesleyan 113-76 in the championship game. Kyle Myrick finished with 41 pts. on 16 of 32 shots. Sami Wylie had 27 pts., and Darryl White had 11 rebs. Lincoln as a team shot 56 percent from the floor.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2005, 02:55:53 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2005, 02:55:53 AM
I think Chowan's in the transition phase from D3 to D2.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on December 05, 2005, 05:39:05 AM
Post by: hopefan on December 05, 2005, 05:39:05 AM
The question about Chowan came up earlier so I double checked - They are definitely listed as a Pool B entrant in the 2006 DIII Men's Basketball Championship Handbook. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: cardinalpride on December 05, 2005, 09:13:59 AM
Post by: cardinalpride on December 05, 2005, 09:13:59 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2005, 02:55:53 AM
I think Chowan's in the transition phase from D3 to D2.
Quote from: hopefan on December 05, 2005, 05:39:05 AM
The question about Chowan came up earlier so I double checked - They are definitely listed as a Pool B entrant in the 2006 DIII Men's Basketball Championship Handbook. :)
Greg & Hopefan, Thanks for the info!
CP
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 05, 2005, 10:44:33 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 05, 2005, 10:44:33 AM
cardinalpride; Gregory; hopefan:
Thanks for the information on Chowan's divisional status. I got the DII information from Chowan's website that referenced DII Football and Basketball.
Thanks for the information on Chowan's divisional status. I got the DII information from Chowan's website that referenced DII Football and Basketball.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2005, 08:04:19 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2005, 08:04:19 PM
They have scholarship athletes this year. Although the NCAA considers them D-III until they are eligible for the D-II playoffs, we don't consider them Division III or cover them on the Web sites.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on December 05, 2005, 08:27:10 PM
Post by: Coach C on December 05, 2005, 08:27:10 PM
Pat -
You are to be commended for taking a stand hwere the NCAA is gutless.
C
You are to be commended for taking a stand hwere the NCAA is gutless.
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: cardinalpride on December 06, 2005, 03:14:38 PM
Post by: cardinalpride on December 06, 2005, 03:14:38 PM
Quote from: Coach C on December 05, 2005, 08:27:10 PM
Pat -
You are to be commended for taking a stand hwere the NCAA is gutless.
C
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2005, 08:04:19 PM
They have scholarship athletes this year. Although the NCAA considers them D-III until they are eligible for the D-II playoffs, we don't consider them Division III or cover them on the Web sites.
Aye!! Aye!!
CP
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on December 07, 2005, 09:03:09 PM
Post by: joe smith on December 07, 2005, 09:03:09 PM
Bethany crushes Pitt-Greensburg tonight 88-68 in a game where they led around 30 most of the game. They improve to 5-3. They have a tough game this weekend against Lake Erie. We'll see if this teams back on track after this weekend.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scotswin on December 11, 2005, 12:20:43 PM
Post by: scotswin on December 11, 2005, 12:20:43 PM
Maryville (TN) is off to a 8-0 start and is 7-0 in region including 5 region wins on the road. By years end, this start should definitely boost their SOS index.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 05:58:31 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 05:58:31 PM
Pool B watch thru Dec 11th. Here are my candidates for the Pool B bids.
1) Maryville, TN
2) Lincoln PA
3) Chapman.
Bubble teams:
Villa Julie/NEAC, Baptist Bible/NEAC, Bethany/Pres AC, Fisk/GSAC (only because they have Mississippi College, Randolph-Macon and 11 other South Region games left), Concordia IL /NIIC, Neb Wesleyan/IND. (They have only 7 in-region games. They definitely will benefit from a D3-Independent post-season tournament.)
1) Maryville, TN
2) Lincoln PA
3) Chapman.
Bubble teams:
Villa Julie/NEAC, Baptist Bible/NEAC, Bethany/Pres AC, Fisk/GSAC (only because they have Mississippi College, Randolph-Macon and 11 other South Region games left), Concordia IL /NIIC, Neb Wesleyan/IND. (They have only 7 in-region games. They definitely will benefit from a D3-Independent post-season tournament.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 07:02:47 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 07:02:47 PM
Of course, those 4 Pool B bids are not long for D3. I project that those 4 bids will shrink to only 2 by 2008.
As we understand it now, the NIIC-LMC merger means that 4 NIIC schools move from Pool B into the new conference and Eureka goes to the SLIAC. (Only Clarke currently will remain in Pool B. Those other 5 schools should be in Pool A in 2007.)
The Pres AC and its 7 full members will take its Pool A bid from Pool B in 2008.
In 2007, the NEAC will take its 9 teams that are allocated to Pool B and get its Pool A bid at the expense of Pool B.
According to the Handbook and the above movements to Pool A, the 41 Pool B teams in 2006 will drop to 20 plus the 2 new members in 2008 (Green Mountain VT and Finlandia) to give us 22 Pool B teams. Divide that by the roughly 1:9.22 access ratio, and we see how the NCAA will allocate only 2 bids to Pool B.
Unlike Football, where 2 of the Semi-finalists were Pool B's and there was considerable discussion about a Pool B getting a Pool C bid, I very seriously doubt that any Pool B teams will get a Pool C.
As we understand it now, the NIIC-LMC merger means that 4 NIIC schools move from Pool B into the new conference and Eureka goes to the SLIAC. (Only Clarke currently will remain in Pool B. Those other 5 schools should be in Pool A in 2007.)
The Pres AC and its 7 full members will take its Pool A bid from Pool B in 2008.
In 2007, the NEAC will take its 9 teams that are allocated to Pool B and get its Pool A bid at the expense of Pool B.
According to the Handbook and the above movements to Pool A, the 41 Pool B teams in 2006 will drop to 20 plus the 2 new members in 2008 (Green Mountain VT and Finlandia) to give us 22 Pool B teams. Divide that by the roughly 1:9.22 access ratio, and we see how the NCAA will allocate only 2 bids to Pool B.
Unlike Football, where 2 of the Semi-finalists were Pool B's and there was considerable discussion about a Pool B getting a Pool C bid, I very seriously doubt that any Pool B teams will get a Pool C.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2005, 07:30:10 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2005, 07:30:10 PM
Wesley was the only Pool B semifinalist. Linfield was eliminated in the quarters, Thiel in the second round, W&J in the first round.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 07:38:00 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 07:38:00 PM
My bad! :( Must be the Catdome effect! :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2005, 07:59:45 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2005, 07:59:45 PM
I think Milwaukee Engineering is going to be joining the Pool B ranks as well next year, Ralph. MSOE has declined an invitation to join the as-yet-unnamed amalgamation of the NIIC and the LMC. The word is that they'd like to join the MWC, but I don't see an invitation to join that league forthcoming in the near future.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 08:39:11 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 08:39:11 PM
A Gregory Sager post has prompted me to post the Primary Criteria from the Handbook. These are the only criteria that the NCAA uses to select the bids.
For the purpose of Pool B, I do not recall hearing that a game against a D1, D2 or NAIA school impacted a Pool B selection.
Please review the Handbook for the other information on the Handbook.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
Regardless of what we may feel about the quality of the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll, it has no absolutely bearing on the selections. (Tip of the hat to smedindy!)
**The regional rankings are taken for publication on February 8th, 15th, 22nd and then made once more on the selection weekend.
For the purpose of Pool B, I do not recall hearing that a game against a D1, D2 or NAIA school impacted a Pool B selection.
Please review the Handbook for the other information on the Handbook.
QuotePrimary Criteria
--Win-loss percentage vs. regional opponents.
--Quality-of-wins Index (QOWI).
--In-region head-to-head competition.
--In-region results vs. common regional opponents.
--In-region results vs. regionally ranked teams.**
--Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the times of the ranking/selection process only.
--Conference post season contest(s) is included.
--Contest vs. provisional members in their 3rd and 4th years.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
Regardless of what we may feel about the quality of the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll, it has no absolutely bearing on the selections. (Tip of the hat to smedindy!)
**The regional rankings are taken for publication on February 8th, 15th, 22nd and then made once more on the selection weekend.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2005, 09:24:53 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2005, 09:24:53 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2005, 07:59:45 PM
I think Milwaukee Engineering is going to be joining the Pool B ranks as well next year, Ralph. MSOE has declined an invitation to join the as-yet-unnamed amalgamation of the NIIC and the LMC. The word is that they'd like to join the MWC, but I don't see an invitation to join that league forthcoming in the near future.
Greg,
I don't really follow the bottom dwellers of the MWC. Whether MSOE enters the MWC or becomes a B, do you feel they have the potential to become the Midwest equivalent of CalTech? That's the impression I get, but wonder if it is too harsh?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 09:35:19 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2005, 09:35:19 PM
My interest in the precision of these discussions is primarily concerned with number of Pool B schools and when one less Pool B school will impact the participation ratios and give us one more Pool C bid. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2005, 11:43:14 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2005, 11:43:14 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2005, 09:24:53 PM
Greg,
I don't really follow the bottom dwellers of the MWC. Whether MSOE enters the MWC or becomes a B, do you feel they have the potential to become the Midwest equivalent of CalTech? That's the impression I get, but wonder if it is too harsh?
Dr. Research fails again. Take a look at MSOE's results over the past four years:
http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Milwaukee%20Engineering&team=m
If that suggests Caltech to you, then you better stick to Michigan high school lacrosse. And on mlive.com.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 12, 2005, 12:17:15 AM
Post by: smedindy on December 12, 2005, 12:17:15 AM
QuoteRegardless of what we may feel about the quality of the D3hoops.com Top 25 poll, it has absolutely bearing on the selections.
Did you forget a word there, Ralph???
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 12, 2005, 12:42:29 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 12, 2005, 12:42:29 AM
Pat,
I already spend an unhealthy amount of time on d3sports. com - you want me to research too! ;D
Actually, I do sometimes - see, for example, 'Survivor Pool'. But I confess that most times I go by memory, which lately has not been working out that great! :P
I already spend an unhealthy amount of time on d3sports. com - you want me to research too! ;D
Actually, I do sometimes - see, for example, 'Survivor Pool'. But I confess that most times I go by memory, which lately has not been working out that great! :P
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 12, 2005, 12:46:22 AM
Post by: David Collinge on December 12, 2005, 12:46:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 12, 2005, 12:42:29 AM
I already spend an unhealthy amount of time on d3sports. com [...]
Unhealthy for you, or for us? ::)
[Sorry, Chuck, but that was just too juicy to resist!] ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 12, 2005, 01:08:15 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 12, 2005, 01:08:15 AM
David,
Understood! And you raise a good question: my rantings probably contribute to my ill-being (new term; mark it down!); but since they apparently are read by MORE than one person (2? 7? 27? millions?), am I lowering the cumulative IQ of the country by a measurable amount?
Understood! And you raise a good question: my rantings probably contribute to my ill-being (new term; mark it down!); but since they apparently are read by MORE than one person (2? 7? 27? millions?), am I lowering the cumulative IQ of the country by a measurable amount?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 12, 2005, 02:04:11 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 12, 2005, 02:04:11 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 12, 2005, 12:42:29 AM
Pat,
I already spend an unhealthy amount of time on d3sports. com - you want me to research too! ;D
Since you can be there in three clicks, then yes. We put a tremendous amount of effort into compliling the resources this site has to offer. We are not just a message board.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 13, 2005, 09:05:37 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 13, 2005, 09:05:37 AM
Now the season gets interesting for Lincoln. The Lions play at Baptist Bible tonight, and then the "Rubber Hits the Road" literally and figuratively", with R-MC and St. John Fisher or Lake Erie in Ashland VA on 12/18 &12/19. The Lions travel to Myrtle Beach SC to take on Christopher Newport and Greensboro on 12/20 & 21/21.
Hopefully Lincoln's conditioning will help the Lions pull out much needed wins during this "suicide stretch". I'm hoping the loss to Wilkes will refocus the Lions to play with more intensity.
Hopefully Lincoln's conditioning will help the Lions pull out much needed wins during this "suicide stretch". I'm hoping the loss to Wilkes will refocus the Lions to play with more intensity.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on December 13, 2005, 09:10:39 AM
Post by: Coach C on December 13, 2005, 09:10:39 AM
NJLincolnLion -
How about some predictions?
I will tell you that I think that a 4-1 in those 5 games GUARANTEES a Pool B slot for Lincoln. 3-2 is more likely with a 2-3 still keeping the Lions in the mix.
C
How about some predictions?
I will tell you that I think that a 4-1 in those 5 games GUARANTEES a Pool B slot for Lincoln. 3-2 is more likely with a 2-3 still keeping the Lions in the mix.
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 09:22:53 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 09:22:53 AM
From what I've seen this year, I would put Lincoln as the favorite in all of those games with the possible exception of R-MC. Obviously, throwing them all into such a short span of time makes things tougher, but I think they can perform very well. The NIIC schools are not playing up to par, so there may actually be room for Lincoln and Maryville to both get B spots. They need to beat Greensboro, Baptist Bible and probably Newport to be successful. If they can pull out at least one win this weekend, I think they have a spot locked up... although in d3 nothing is certain, no matter how locked in it seems.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 13, 2005, 09:26:09 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 13, 2005, 09:26:09 AM
Coach C:
I'm predicting Lincoln will go 4 -1......but obviously hoping for a 5-0 record ;D . The first tourney is gonna be a killer with 3 top 25 teams and the fourth team Lake Erie with just one loss.
Hopefully, the OT loss to Wilkes last night will have the Lions focused and play like they have a chip on their shoulders, and win for the "Dear Old Orange & Blue".
I'm predicting Lincoln will go 4 -1......but obviously hoping for a 5-0 record ;D . The first tourney is gonna be a killer with 3 top 25 teams and the fourth team Lake Erie with just one loss.
Hopefully, the OT loss to Wilkes last night will have the Lions focused and play like they have a chip on their shoulders, and win for the "Dear Old Orange & Blue".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on December 13, 2005, 09:30:06 AM
Post by: Coach C on December 13, 2005, 09:30:06 AM
Wilkes is a tough place to play any year. It's a long trip, it's a loud place , and the officiating is always interesting.
OT losses can do one of two things to a team. Let's see what happens!
C
OT losses can do one of two things to a team. Let's see what happens!
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 13, 2005, 09:51:34 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 13, 2005, 09:51:34 AM
Coach C:
I hope the OT helps in Lincoln's case. ;D
I hope the OT helps in Lincoln's case. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on December 13, 2005, 12:05:49 PM
Post by: joe smith on December 13, 2005, 12:05:49 PM
Bethany is in a world of hurt right now losing this past weekend to Lake Erie by 15. They fell to 5-4 and now that's 4 region losses already even before going into conference play. Even though the conference is at an all time low, you can always expect to get upset at least once or twice. Other B teams have to do pretty bad for this team to be reconsidered again, or win the next 16 games and conference tourny. (realistic goal......maybe. the only tough game i see ahead of them is Muskingum)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 12:18:37 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 12:18:37 PM
With only three B spots open, I have to believe the front runners right now are :
Lincoln
Maryville
Benedictine
I guess Fisk still has to be considered until they play d3 competition. Bethany's losses have been to good teams for the most part, so they aren't out yet. There is a decent chance NebWes could be 7-0 against d3 competition (maybe even picking up another two wins in an indy tournament at the end of the year). They have declared d3 this year, so I'm not sure how that would affect their chances. Chapman is doing well early, as well, with 14 d3 games on the schedule, they could be a factor if they play well.
But, barring some unforeseen circumstances, I think Lincoln and Maryville are pretty solid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fritzdis on December 13, 2005, 12:56:04 PM
Post by: fritzdis on December 13, 2005, 12:56:04 PM
Does anyone know whether the NCAA will count Lincoln's games with Randolph-Macon as regional games? The various map/directions sites list them just under or right at 200 miles apart.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 01:10:19 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2005, 01:10:19 PM
Someone with the official Streets & Trips will have to be the final word. The Lincoln win over R-MC earlier this year wasn't marked as an in-region game for either team on d3hoops.com. However, I've used msn maps (the basic software package on microsoft streets and trips) and under the shortest distance option I can see how it could be more than 190 miles between them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 13, 2005, 05:57:40 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 13, 2005, 05:57:40 PM
I'm pretty sure we checked those with Streets and Trips when we put the games on the schedule.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2005, 06:14:20 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2005, 06:14:20 PM
There are 4 bids allocated to Pool B schools this year. I will start the "bubble" teams after I have projected my picks as "close-to-a-lock". ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on December 13, 2005, 09:35:03 PM
Post by: joe smith on December 13, 2005, 09:35:03 PM
Bethany beats LaRoche tonight 75-67 to improve to 6-4 and 3-4 in the region. They'll be off now for x-mas break.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 13, 2005, 09:57:27 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 13, 2005, 09:57:27 PM
Apparently we didn't check with S&T -- and here's the thing, Lincoln University, PA, isn't on the map on this software. It's under 200 miles from Macon to zip code 19352.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 14, 2005, 09:09:23 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 14, 2005, 09:09:23 AM
fritzdis; Hoops Fan; Pat:
Use Oxford, PA as your reference for Lincoln University. Oxford is 5 miles (country miles lol) from Lincoln on old US Route 1.
Use Oxford, PA as your reference for Lincoln University. Oxford is 5 miles (country miles lol) from Lincoln on old US Route 1.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 14, 2005, 09:12:19 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 14, 2005, 09:12:19 AM
BTW, Lincoln beat Baptist Bible last night in Clarks Summitt, PA 89-84. I happy for the win, but that was a close score compared to previous Lion's wins. A win is a win and I'll take it anytime.
Good luck on the road Lions!!!!!!!
Good luck on the road Lions!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2005, 01:52:53 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2005, 01:52:53 PM
I just used the number on baltimore pike and i got 186.5.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 14, 2005, 02:17:48 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 14, 2005, 02:17:48 PM
How does this 200-mile thing work, exactly? Is there some green eyeshade in Indianapolis who has a phone and a Commodore 64 loaded with Streets & Trips, standing by in case the committee calls on Selection Sunday Monday? While evaluating the teams, does the committee refer to the presence or absence of a '+' in the D3Hoops.com schedule, or perhaps mention that the question of regionality was settled in Posting Up? All of these suggestions are intentionally silly, but no sillier than the idea that the NCAA has already determined what are or aren't regional games but is keeping it a secret, leaving us to try and divine the answer ourselves.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 14, 2005, 02:41:14 PM
Post by: smedindy on December 14, 2005, 02:41:14 PM
They use a compass and a string, DC. Or so says my secret spy in the NCAA - oh, wait, he left.
The NCAA operates on a need-to-know basis, and we fans aren't on that pipeline.
The NCAA operates on a need-to-know basis, and we fans aren't on that pipeline.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2005, 03:15:08 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2005, 03:15:08 PM
Someone knows what it is because that Wheaton-Calvin game just doesn't count. I still contend one of the two schools should buy a small plot of land about two miles closer to the other and then measure from there.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2005, 05:41:54 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2005, 05:41:54 PM
Hoops fan, perhaps the CCIW-MIAA series can use the money from concession sales and Koozies to fund the purchase.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: iwumichigander on December 15, 2005, 11:15:15 AM
Post by: iwumichigander on December 15, 2005, 11:15:15 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 12, 2005, 02:04:11 AMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 12, 2005, 12:42:29 AM
Pat,
I already spend an unhealthy amount of time on d3sports. com - you want me to research too! ;D
Since you can be there in three clicks, then yes. We put a tremendous amount of effort into compliling the resources this site has to offer. We are not just a message board.
Ah Pat - you are being modest - you be be there in one or two clicks when starting d3hoops.com in another browser
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2005, 05:42:25 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2005, 05:42:25 AM
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm still laughing at David's jibe about the NCAA using Commodore 64s.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 16, 2005, 10:10:35 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 16, 2005, 10:10:35 AM
Yes, but is it a full-on laugh because of the hyperbole, or is it (like me) a nervous chuckle because it doesn't seem all that implausible?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2005, 01:26:38 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2005, 01:26:38 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 16, 2005, 10:10:35 AM
Yes, but is it a full-on laugh because of the hyperbole, or is it (like me) a nervous chuckle because it doesn't seem all that implausible?
ROTFLM
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2005, 04:50:07 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2005, 04:50:07 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 16, 2005, 10:10:35 AM
Yes, but is it a full-on laugh because of the hyperbole, or is it (like me) a nervous chuckle because it doesn't seem all that implausible?
Kinda both, for both reasons. Is there such a thing as a full-on nervous chuckle?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2005, 07:13:21 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2005, 07:13:21 PM
Pool B watch thru Dec 18th. Here are my candidates for the Pool B bids and what theydid the week of Dec 12th-18th. (Records are overall/in-region/conference)
1) Maryville, TN --Lost at Averett 70-73 8-1/7-1/0-0
2) Lincoln PA --Lost to Wilkes 99-100 1 OT; won at Baptist Bible 89-84; Lost at R-MC 80-101. 8-3/3-2/*-*
3) Chapman--Lost to Oxy 60-65. 8-2/5-2/*-*
Bubble teams:
Dropping Lincoln to the bubble.
Villa Julie/NEAC, Baptist Bible/NEAC, Bethany/Pres AC, Fisk/GSAC (only because they have Mississippi College, Randolph-Macon and 11 other South Region games left),Concordia IL /NIIC, Neb Wesleyan/IND. (They have only 7 in-region games. They definitely will benefit from a D3-Independent post-season tournament.)
New bubble team St Joe's Maine/IND which is 4-3/2-1 and has 12 more NE Region games.
Adding to the bottom of the bubble once conference play starts is Benedictine. I think that the NIIC has a chance to place its team with the highest winning percentage. We will have to watch that.
Dropping from the bubble for now: Concordia IL,
New rankings:
1) Maryville TN
2) ------- don't see anyone good enough yet!
3) ------- don't see anyone good enough yet!
4) Chapman CA--almost fell to the bubble.
Everyone else has to be considered in the bubble.
1) Maryville, TN --Lost at Averett 70-73 8-1/7-1/0-0
2) Lincoln PA --Lost to Wilkes 99-100 1 OT; won at Baptist Bible 89-84; Lost at R-MC 80-101. 8-3/3-2/*-*
3) Chapman--Lost to Oxy 60-65. 8-2/5-2/*-*
Bubble teams:
Dropping Lincoln to the bubble.
Villa Julie/NEAC, Baptist Bible/NEAC, Bethany/Pres AC, Fisk/GSAC (only because they have Mississippi College, Randolph-Macon and 11 other South Region games left),
New bubble team St Joe's Maine/IND which is 4-3/2-1 and has 12 more NE Region games.
Adding to the bottom of the bubble once conference play starts is Benedictine. I think that the NIIC has a chance to place its team with the highest winning percentage. We will have to watch that.
Dropping from the bubble for now: Concordia IL,
New rankings:
1) Maryville TN
2) ------- don't see anyone good enough yet!
3) ------- don't see anyone good enough yet!
4) Chapman CA--almost fell to the bubble.
Everyone else has to be considered in the bubble.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 09:51:23 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 19, 2005, 09:51:23 AM
I'd like to see how the QOWI numbers come out, because I think Lincoln will get a big boost in that department, although they will have to survive as fatigue becomes a huge factor right now.
There is no way St Joe's of Maine even competes. They stink and they don't really even play anyone good. Even with a better than expected performance this year, they lose 8 games. Newbury is a better team, and they certainly aren't going to make it.
I'll keep Villa Julie and Bap Bible in it, but one of them will probably have to go undefeated through the conference to get in. They couldn't hold up for the long haul last season.
We'll know for sure about both Fisk and Lincoln come the first week on January. I think Lincoln built a good foundation early on, but they will have to back it up over the holiday season.
Maryville is in unless something totally unforeseen occurs.
If somebody can sweep the PrAC, then they are in the mix as well; I think it will take something similar for Benedictine or Aurora as well.
NebWes will depend on the new year's tournament, but I think Chapman is solid right now, even though their schedule is pretty weak.
Maryville is obviously #1; I'd have to put Chapman #2 right now followed by Lincoln, but a lot can still happen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fritzdis on December 20, 2005, 01:26:07 PM
Post by: fritzdis on December 20, 2005, 01:26:07 PM
I believe their current QOWI is 10.57 (or 10.6 if you discount their games with RMC), which is pretty darn good for a team with a 4-3 regional record. Obviously, it's pretty early to use any formula that depends on the records of Lincoln's opponents, but I'm fairly confident Albright, RMC, and Wilkes will all finish the season at or above .667 in-region, so there may not be quite as much room for Lincoln's QOWI to change as there otherwise would be.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on December 21, 2005, 08:16:13 AM
Post by: Coach C on December 21, 2005, 08:16:13 AM
I missed the Commodore 64 comment, but I would not be surprised if there are folks in Indy who remember lever-style adding machines with fondness.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 21, 2005, 08:57:24 AM
Post by: smedindy on December 21, 2005, 08:57:24 AM
Actually, if they liked those types of machines, then this calculation would be simple and easy to understand AND fair.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on December 21, 2005, 10:05:55 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on December 21, 2005, 10:05:55 AM
Quote from: Coach C on December 21, 2005, 08:16:13 AM
I missed the Commodore 64 comment, but I would not be surprised if there are folks in Indy who remember lever-style adding machines with fondness.
C
My father loved his, he used it up until sometime in the 90's until it finally just wore out. He then had to get that new-fangeled fancy electronic one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on December 22, 2005, 08:27:57 AM
Post by: joe smith on December 22, 2005, 08:27:57 AM
How good is that Lincoln squad?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 22, 2005, 10:06:17 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 22, 2005, 10:06:17 AM
Joe:
Lincoln is 12-3 currently. The Lions lost at Albright by 1, Lost at Wilkes in OT by 8, and at R-MC by 21 after defeating R-MC by 23 earlier in the season at Lincoln. The Lions beat CNU in OT last night after playing four straight games on the road in two states.
Lincoln seems to have a habit of spotting teams in the first half, and coming back to win in the second half. I hope they start playing complete games. I think the "spotting" problem came back to bite them in the Albright and Wilkes games. The Lions gets two low post players in the second half of the season, and one is a D1 transfer from Temple.
Lincoln is 12-3 currently. The Lions lost at Albright by 1, Lost at Wilkes in OT by 8, and at R-MC by 21 after defeating R-MC by 23 earlier in the season at Lincoln. The Lions beat CNU in OT last night after playing four straight games on the road in two states.
Lincoln seems to have a habit of spotting teams in the first half, and coming back to win in the second half. I hope they start playing complete games. I think the "spotting" problem came back to bite them in the Albright and Wilkes games. The Lions gets two low post players in the second half of the season, and one is a D1 transfer from Temple.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 03, 2006, 10:32:12 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 03, 2006, 10:32:12 AM
I have to get the Bumblin B's topic back "on board"......pun intended. Lincoln is is currently 12-3 and will be taking on F&M in the Championship game tonight in Lancaster for the Lancaster Rotary Tournament.
The Lions should be relatively "rested" and hopefully will be ready for the Diplomats tonight. F&M ended Lincolns seasons last year at home in a ECAC game> Time for the Lions to take the championship tonight. F&M crushed Mitchell last night, and Lincoln had a "fairly" easy win over Juniata in the first round games.
The Lions should be relatively "rested" and hopefully will be ready for the Diplomats tonight. F&M ended Lincolns seasons last year at home in a ECAC game> Time for the Lions to take the championship tonight. F&M crushed Mitchell last night, and Lincoln had a "fairly" easy win over Juniata in the first round games.
Go Lincoln
Go Lions
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 04, 2006, 01:27:11 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 04, 2006, 01:27:11 AM
Congratulations to the Lincoln Lions on their 24 point victory over F&M in Lancaster and avenge last seasons season ending loss at the hands of the Diplomats.
Lincoln has a ways to go to catch F&M with a commanding lead in the overall series between the two schools. It wouls be great to see F&M play Lincoln on a more frequent basis considering the schools are only 25 -30 miles apart.
Lincoln has a ways to go to catch F&M with a commanding lead in the overall series between the two schools. It wouls be great to see F&M play Lincoln on a more frequent basis considering the schools are only 25 -30 miles apart.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 04, 2006, 09:01:55 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 04, 2006, 09:01:55 AM
Another good win to start out the new year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 04, 2006, 10:59:43 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 04, 2006, 10:59:43 AM
Hoops Fan:
Thanks for the support !!! Lincoln is suppose to have two transfers for the second half of the season. I hope they blend in and strenghten the Lions and not affect the cohesiveness of the squad.
Lincoln is more than half way through their schedule and are doing relatively well. I'm still hurting from that that 1 point OT loss to Wilkes :( .
Thanks for the support !!! Lincoln is suppose to have two transfers for the second half of the season. I hope they blend in and strenghten the Lions and not affect the cohesiveness of the squad.
Lincoln is more than half way through their schedule and are doing relatively well. I'm still hurting from that that 1 point OT loss to Wilkes :( .
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 04, 2006, 01:17:49 PM
Post by: joe smith on January 04, 2006, 01:17:49 PM
Bethany continues to do well after a 5-4 start. They've now won 3 in a row with last nights drumming of Hiram. They improve to 8-4 and 5-4 in the region now. Nice to get back on track before conference play where they should average 20-point wins throughout the conference. I believe they still have D'Youville to play out of conference. This team could easily run the table and find themselves at 21-4 before the conference tourny.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 04, 2006, 02:39:32 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 04, 2006, 02:39:32 PM
Yeah but their QOWI is probably already shot.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 04, 2006, 09:24:31 PM
Post by: joe smith on January 04, 2006, 09:24:31 PM
They only lost to one bad team (Marietta). The other three have a combined record of 24-6 (Case, CMU, and Lake Erie). Two of those games they lost in the final seconds when they were leading.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 05, 2006, 01:01:08 AM
Post by: smedindy on January 05, 2006, 01:01:08 AM
That doesn't affect their QOWI though. It is what it is.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 05, 2006, 09:34:33 AM
Post by: joe smith on January 05, 2006, 09:34:33 AM
They won't get any help in their conference because every team in there is .500 or below and realisticly they all pretty much stink.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on January 05, 2006, 11:28:00 AM
Post by: Coach C on January 05, 2006, 11:28:00 AM
njlincolnlion -
Something tells me there won't be another invitation to Lancaster anytime soon. And good luck getting GRob to Oxford.
C
Something tells me there won't be another invitation to Lancaster anytime soon. And good luck getting GRob to Oxford.
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 05, 2006, 01:01:19 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 05, 2006, 01:01:19 PM
Coach C:
I think you are absolutely right about not getting F&M to come to Lincoln :( , and future invitations to the Rotary Tournament in Lancaster will be few, if any at all.
As you know, the dilemma for Lincoln is that when you play well and you are an independent, it's going to be very difficult to schedule opponents. Hopefully, the Lions won't have to play all road games next season. The life of independents are if you're bad, everyone wants to schedule you for a home game, and if you're decent to good, you'll have difficulty scheduling opponents.
I applaud, R-MC for home and home games this season. I wish a few more programs would take the "R-MC" approach towards independents.
I think you are absolutely right about not getting F&M to come to Lincoln :( , and future invitations to the Rotary Tournament in Lancaster will be few, if any at all.
As you know, the dilemma for Lincoln is that when you play well and you are an independent, it's going to be very difficult to schedule opponents. Hopefully, the Lions won't have to play all road games next season. The life of independents are if you're bad, everyone wants to schedule you for a home game, and if you're decent to good, you'll have difficulty scheduling opponents.
I applaud, R-MC for home and home games this season. I wish a few more programs would take the "R-MC" approach towards independents.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 06, 2006, 10:21:07 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 06, 2006, 10:21:07 AM
Congratulations to Kyle Myrick of Lincoln University upon being named DIII Hoops Men's player of the Month (December, 2005). This is the first time ever a Lincoln University Basketball player has won such a honor. The month of December witnessed Lincoln's difficult roads games including playing in four consecutive games in two tournaments in two states. The Lion's only loss was to R-MC at Ashland, VA in their tournamant during their "Southern Road Tour".
Thank you Pat Coleman and the D3Hoops voters on your selection of Kyle Myrick. As a proud alumnus of Lincoln University, I'm sure I speak for the Administration, Faculty, Students, and Alumni about how happy we are for Kyle, the Basketball team, and Lincoln Atlletics for this award.
Thank you Pat Coleman and the D3Hoops voters on your selection of Kyle Myrick. As a proud alumnus of Lincoln University, I'm sure I speak for the Administration, Faculty, Students, and Alumni about how happy we are for Kyle, the Basketball team, and Lincoln Atlletics for this award.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on January 06, 2006, 10:24:52 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on January 06, 2006, 10:24:52 AM
Quote from: Coach C on January 05, 2006, 11:28:00 AM
njlincolnlion -
Something tells me there won't be another invitation to Lancaster anytime soon. And good luck getting GRob to Oxford.
C
Good luck getting GRob to any away game outside the Centennial. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on January 06, 2006, 10:42:06 AM
Post by: Coach C on January 06, 2006, 10:42:06 AM
If memory serves, I think GRob went to Dover to pound the %^&$ out of Wesley as a farewell to Coach Wentworth. Other than that ... I can't think of many non-conference road trips.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 06, 2006, 03:06:00 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 06, 2006, 03:06:00 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on January 06, 2006, 10:21:07 AM
Congratulations to Kyle Myrick of Lincoln University upon being named DIII Hoops Men's player of the Month (December, 2005). This is the first time ever a Lincoln University Basketball player has won such a honor. The month of December witnessed Lincoln's difficult roads games including playing in four consecutive games in two tournaments in two states. The Lion's only loss was to R-MC at Ashland, VA in their tournamant during their "Southern Road Tour".
Thank you Pat Coleman and the D3Hoops voters on your selection of Kyle Myrick. As a proud alumnus of Lincoln University, I'm sure I speak for the Administration, Faculty, Students, and Alumni about how happy we are for Kyle, the Basketball team, and Lincoln Atlletics for this award.
Thanks, but that is not our award. We don't have a player of the month.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fritzdis on January 07, 2006, 10:23:14 AM
Post by: fritzdis on January 07, 2006, 10:23:14 AM
Quote from: Coach C on January 06, 2006, 10:42:06 AMHow about Catholic and DeSales last year?
If memory serves, I think GRob went to Dover to pound the %^&$ out of Wesley as a farewell to Coach Wentworth. Other than that ... I can't think of many non-conference road trips.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2006, 09:30:58 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2006, 09:30:58 AM
Another tough loss for Lincoln this weekend. Lebanon Valley appears to have focused primarily on Myrick and it worked.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 09, 2006, 10:21:59 AM
Post by: joe smith on January 09, 2006, 10:21:59 AM
Bethany wins both games this week including a 50-point win from D'Youville. They improve to 10-4 and 7-4 in the region now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 09, 2006, 10:39:51 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 09, 2006, 10:39:51 AM
Hoops Fan:
Lincoln has me so frustrated. How do they beat Messiah, and lose to Lebanon Valley? ??? . If it's true that Leb. Valley focused on Kyle, the other Lions didn't step up. This year squad is suppose to be more vesatile with their scoring compared to last year when they only had Myrick and Kearse.
I get to see the Lions when they play in the Mabhattanville tourney, and can't wait.
Lincoln has me so frustrated. How do they beat Messiah, and lose to Lebanon Valley? ??? . If it's true that Leb. Valley focused on Kyle, the other Lions didn't step up. This year squad is suppose to be more vesatile with their scoring compared to last year when they only had Myrick and Kearse.
I get to see the Lions when they play in the Mabhattanville tourney, and can't wait.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on January 10, 2006, 10:59:49 AM
Post by: wilburt on January 10, 2006, 10:59:49 AM
Congrats on Kyle Myrick, njlincolnlion. He does Lincoln proud!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 11:26:06 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 11:26:06 AM
wilburt:
Thanks so much for your comment on Kyle Myrick. Kyle is a very talented young man, and represents Lincoln well.
I'm still a little bummed out with the Lions dropping out of the top 25, but they did it to themselves losing to Lebanon Valley, after beating a tough Messiah team. Hopefully, they can win out and conference teams in the top 25 will start to knock each other off the list.
Good luck with FISK with their leage games, especially aganist Maryville.
Thanks so much for your comment on Kyle Myrick. Kyle is a very talented young man, and represents Lincoln well.
I'm still a little bummed out with the Lions dropping out of the top 25, but they did it to themselves losing to Lebanon Valley, after beating a tough Messiah team. Hopefully, they can win out and conference teams in the top 25 will start to knock each other off the list.
Good luck with FISK with their leage games, especially aganist Maryville.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2006, 12:06:11 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2006, 12:06:11 PM
I knew they would drop. I wanted to keep them in there, but from every angle I looked at, they were not better than 26th right now. I don't think that makes them any less dangerous, but they will have to finish strong to assure themselves a place in the tourney.
Right now there isn't a whole lot of competition for the Pool B spots. Lincoln and Chapman are still the contenders from the independants. St Joe's (ME) has done ok so far, but I don't think they are going to survive their late season schedule. The one monkey wrench could be Nebraska Wesleyan. They declared for d3, but they will only have 7 d3 games, and will have a record of 6-1 (a game with Colorado College is still on the docket, but that's a w, no problem). Their competition hasn't been that great and I just don't know how the committee will handle it.
Maryville and Fisk are both playing really well in the GSAC. Bethany could pose some trouble, even though their QOWI will be very low. They play in a tough region (i'm not sure if all the really good GL teams will help or hurt them). I think the NIIC teams are all done already.
I'd say right now we have to watch Maryville, Fisk, Lincoln, Chapman, Bethany and NebWes. There's only three spots, however, and someone may be really hurting come selection time.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2006, 12:25:25 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 10, 2006, 12:25:25 PM
Hoops Fan, there are 4 Pool B slots.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
Please look at the top of page 14 in the Handbook.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
Please look at the top of page 14 in the Handbook.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2006, 03:02:38 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 10, 2006, 03:02:38 PM
Yeah, yeah. I got the number wrong; I knew three didn't sound right. I guess I was assuming Maryville will get in leaving three spots. i'm not sure. Either way, it makes things a little easier.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 03:05:43 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 03:05:43 PM
Hoops Fan:
I knew the LVC loss would hurt the Lions. I'm hoping that they win out so they won't have to wait for their "bubble to burst" like last year.
Ralph:
Thanks for the NCAA info regarding 4 slots. I hope Lion plays like they know it's only 3 slots and not let up for the rest of the season. This road schedule Lincoln has is tough !!!, but what can you do about it?
I knew the LVC loss would hurt the Lions. I'm hoping that they win out so they won't have to wait for their "bubble to burst" like last year.
Ralph:
Thanks for the NCAA info regarding 4 slots. I hope Lion plays like they know it's only 3 slots and not let up for the rest of the season. This road schedule Lincoln has is tough !!!, but what can you do about it?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 03:23:04 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 03:23:04 PM
Congratulations to Lincoln's Sami Wylie on being named the "Association of DIII Independents" Men's Player of the Week. Wylie is ranked 15th in the nation on three pointers averaging 3.9 a game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2006, 03:54:14 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2006, 03:54:14 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 10, 2006, 12:06:11 PMThe one monkey wrench could be Nebraska Wesleyan. They declared for d3, but they will only have 7 d3 games, and will have a record of 6-1 (a game with Colorado College is still on the docket, but that's a w, no problem). Their competition hasn't been that great and I just don't know how the committee will handle it.
Nebraska Wesleyan's D3 competition hasn't been great, but in their league (the NAIA-dominated Great Plains Athletic Conference) the Prairie Wolves are getting pummeled. They're 1-6 and tied for 12th (and last) place in that league.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 04:58:33 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 04:58:33 PM
Gregory:
Thanks for the info on Nebraska Weselyan. You are right, I don't think they will be going anywhere in the post season.
So Right now it seems like the battle for the 4 slots are Lincoln, FISK, Maryville, Chapman, and Bethany, with Fisk and Maryville having to play each other twice.
Thanks for the info on Nebraska Weselyan. You are right, I don't think they will be going anywhere in the post season.
So Right now it seems like the battle for the 4 slots are Lincoln, FISK, Maryville, Chapman, and Bethany, with Fisk and Maryville having to play each other twice.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2006, 01:43:45 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2006, 01:43:45 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 04:58:33 PM
Thanks for the info on Nebraska Weselyan. You are right, I don't think they will be going anywhere in the post season.
Actually, I wasn't saying that at all. How the Prairie Wolves do in their league is irrelevant to the Pool B selection process, since the GPAC is composed entirely of NAIA teams. NebWes is the only NCAA D3 outfit in the GPAC (they're actually a dual NCAA/NAIA member, but they declare for the NCAA postseason every year). So none of those league games matter. The Prairie Wolves could conceivably finish in last place in the GPAC and still make the D3 tourney as a Pool B entry. Strange, but true.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 12, 2006, 01:52:56 PM
Post by: joe smith on January 12, 2006, 01:52:56 PM
Bethany wins their 5th in a row last night beating Waynesburg 102-93. The final score is a lot closer then it actually was. Bethany pulled their starters with 5 minutes to go and were up 30. They play W&J this Saturday for sole posession of 1st place.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 12, 2006, 02:49:38 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 12, 2006, 02:49:38 PM
Gregory:
Wow, that's a weird scenario for Nebraska Wesleyan. I guess the saying "To lose is to gain" may be appropriate in the case of the Prairie Dogs. How lucky can a team potentially get?
Wow, that's a weird scenario for Nebraska Wesleyan. I guess the saying "To lose is to gain" may be appropriate in the case of the Prairie Dogs. How lucky can a team potentially get?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 12, 2006, 03:20:29 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 12, 2006, 03:20:29 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 11, 2006, 01:43:45 AMQuote from: njlincolnlion on January 10, 2006, 04:58:33 PM
Thanks for the info on Nebraska Weselyan. You are right, I don't think they will be going anywhere in the post season.
Actually, I wasn't saying that at all. How the Prairie Wolves do in their league is irrelevant to the Pool B selection process, since the GPAC is composed entirely of NAIA teams. NebWes is the only NCAA D3 outfit in the GPAC (they're actually a dual NCAA/NAIA member, but they declare for the NCAA postseason every year). So none of those league games matter. The Prairie Wolves could conceivably finish in last place in the GPAC and still make the D3 tourney as a Pool B entry. Strange, but true.
Actually, it does matter somewhat, because from all I've been told, they have to finish .500 or better overall to get an at-large bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 12, 2006, 03:44:00 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 12, 2006, 03:44:00 PM
Pat:
Thanks for the clarification on Neb. Wesleyan NCAA post season bid chances. I see the Prairie Wolves are currently 7-7 with 13 games remaining including the end of the season Independent DIII Tourney at Santa Cruz (with Chapman, and Colorado College joining NWC and UC Santa Cruz). It seems as if Neb. Wesleyan just started the second half of their conference schedule, and if the schedule hold form, they may just finish at .500 or slightly above.
It's still interesting that they only have to finish .500 or above for a potential NCAA bid.
Thanks for the clarification on Neb. Wesleyan NCAA post season bid chances. I see the Prairie Wolves are currently 7-7 with 13 games remaining including the end of the season Independent DIII Tourney at Santa Cruz (with Chapman, and Colorado College joining NWC and UC Santa Cruz). It seems as if Neb. Wesleyan just started the second half of their conference schedule, and if the schedule hold form, they may just finish at .500 or slightly above.
It's still interesting that they only have to finish .500 or above for a potential NCAA bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 12, 2006, 03:59:00 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 12, 2006, 03:59:00 PM
Lincoln has six games remaining on the schedule. My predictions are:
John Jay at home 1/14 - W
Montclair State (7-5) 1/21 at Manhattenville Tourney - W ?
Brooklyn or Manhattenville 1/22 - W
at Delaware Valley 2/2 - W
Richard Stockton (9-2) 2/6 at home - W ?
Penn State Abington at home 2/13 - W
The only uncertain wins are Montclair State and Richard Stockton. Since Lincoln is playing MSU on a neutral court, I would give the edge to the Lions.
The Richard Stockton game is a make-up at home due to a snowstorm in December. Lincoln beat Stockton by 5 points in the Elizabethtown tourney on 11/19 after being down by 19 points with six minutes remaining. I have to give the Lions the home court point advantage for this game, although the revenge factor is a plus for the Ospreys of Stockton.
Lincoln can finish 21-4 or 20-5. At 20-5 as an independent, do the Lions receive an NCAA bid? Any comments and/or opinions?
John Jay at home 1/14 - W
Montclair State (7-5) 1/21 at Manhattenville Tourney - W ?
Brooklyn or Manhattenville 1/22 - W
at Delaware Valley 2/2 - W
Richard Stockton (9-2) 2/6 at home - W ?
Penn State Abington at home 2/13 - W
The only uncertain wins are Montclair State and Richard Stockton. Since Lincoln is playing MSU on a neutral court, I would give the edge to the Lions.
The Richard Stockton game is a make-up at home due to a snowstorm in December. Lincoln beat Stockton by 5 points in the Elizabethtown tourney on 11/19 after being down by 19 points with six minutes remaining. I have to give the Lions the home court point advantage for this game, although the revenge factor is a plus for the Ospreys of Stockton.
Lincoln can finish 21-4 or 20-5. At 20-5 as an independent, do the Lions receive an NCAA bid? Any comments and/or opinions?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:09:31 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:09:31 PM
Honestly, if they beat Chapman, I guess they can get in. In fact those two schools meeting in the finals of an independent tourney probably will be a deciding factor between them. (Much like Lincoln and NJCU last year).
As for Lincoln getting 20 wins. I would assume they have a spot. A lot will depend on the QOWI and how the regional rankings pan out.
Maryville bear Fisk last night in OT, which means Fisk may be better than expected. Those two teams split and there's a whole lot more trouble for the Pool B schools.
As far as Bethany goes, has there ever been a 20 win team with an QOWI below 8.5?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2006, 04:10:35 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 12, 2006, 04:10:35 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 12, 2006, 03:20:29 PMActually, it does matter somewhat, because from all I've been told, they have to finish .500 or better overall to get an at-large bid.
Why is that? I don't see that .500-or-better rule anywhere in the handbook. Is this some sort of codicil to the rules that was uniquely imposed upon NebWes by the NCAA when the Prairie Wolves declared for D3 postseason eligibility this fall?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:14:27 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:14:27 PM
I'll have to check, but I remember seeing something about that in the new handbook. There was definately a change that I thought would effect the geographically isolated schools like NWU and Rust.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:37:54 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 12, 2006, 04:37:54 PM
I couldn't find it, but I know I read something about it somewhere.
The only consolation the other teams have against NebWes is the fact that their schedule is so small and so bad.
St. Scholastica twice, a mid-level UMAC team
Martin Luther, a bad UMAC team
Cal Lutheran is a .500 team at best
They lost to Whitworth, the only decent team on the schedule
UC-Santa Cruz and Colorado College are both awful this year
Add an indy tournament, you get one of those last teams again and a game with Chapman. They would have to beat Chapman, even to be considered in my book.
Although, on the other hand, Chapman's best win is Redlands and their three losses are to some of the top teams on the West Coast. They have no competition the rest of the way either. That NebWes-Chapman match-up may just seal it for one of them.
Regardless, I think Lincoln has a better shot than either of them. So you can rest easy and hope your boys don't until the season's over.
You have to assume Maryville gets in, as they will only be tested twice more (Fisk and Methodist, both teams they've beaten once already).
Bethany can probably get in based on their weak schedule.
Fisk has a big win over RMC and only two in-region losses (Maryville and Miss College). If they can run out the rest of the schedule (including a win over Maryville) I think they have to be in.
In terms of strength of position (and this could all change once the regional rankings come out):
1. Maryville
2. Lincoln
3. Bethany
4. Fisk
5. Chapman
6. Neb Wes
Fisk can hop to #2 with a win over Maryville. I think Lincoln's got the hardest row to hoe, but if they finish strong... what am I saying; it's too tough to tell.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on January 12, 2006, 06:36:04 PM
Post by: Coach C on January 12, 2006, 06:36:04 PM
20 wins should get the lions a bid with that schedule, but they really need 21 to feel safe.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 13, 2006, 09:16:00 AM
Post by: joe smith on January 13, 2006, 09:16:00 AM
I don't think one team other then Bethany will finish over .500 in their conference (PrAC). How bad does this hurt them? And if they get upset or lose in the conference tourny does this pretty much eliminate them from pool B consideration? If they win out they'll prolly have 22 to 23 wins.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 13, 2006, 09:18:56 AM
Post by: smedindy on January 13, 2006, 09:18:56 AM
With the way pool B is shaping up, it only hurts Bethany if they lose a bunch of conference games.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2006, 09:58:23 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 13, 2006, 09:58:23 AM
Yeah, I think Bathany can get in with one conference loss, maybe two before they have to start sweating. They only have two wins over teams that have a legetimate chance to finish above .500 and one of them (Keystone) is a provisional.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on January 14, 2006, 01:28:14 AM
Post by: hugenerd on January 14, 2006, 01:28:14 AM
There is an articles on Lincoln's Kyle Myrick on the ESPN Men's Basketball page right now, entitled, " Myrick hoping to go from jail to NBA", even a quote from Aaron Mckie of the Lakers saying Myrick could make it in the NBA:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2290905
I also noticed that the transfer from Temple has started playing for Lincoln, looks like their guard play could be pretty solid going into the latter part of the season.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2290905
I also noticed that the transfer from Temple has started playing for Lincoln, looks like their guard play could be pretty solid going into the latter part of the season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on January 14, 2006, 08:46:45 AM
Post by: Coach C on January 14, 2006, 08:46:45 AM
Yeah - this team is a long way from Justice Thurgood Marshall and some of Lincoln's other illustrious grads, but it is STILL better than some of the years past.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 14, 2006, 06:19:01 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 14, 2006, 06:19:01 PM
Gregory, I think it's a Division III-wide rule (or maybe even an NCAA-wide rule) that doesn't appear in the individual sports' handbooks.
Regarding Lincoln/Chapman, I don't think those teams are in the same indy tourney. There's an east tourney and a west tourney, at least there was last year.
I think Lincoln is a lock at 20-5, even 21-6 if they split the east tourney.
Regarding Lincoln/Chapman, I don't think those teams are in the same indy tourney. There's an east tourney and a west tourney, at least there was last year.
I think Lincoln is a lock at 20-5, even 21-6 if they split the east tourney.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on January 15, 2006, 07:20:51 PM
Post by: Coach C on January 15, 2006, 07:20:51 PM
I think it's in the general regulations regarding championships. 21-6 with the wins they have had should get Lincoln in, but It could get tight.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2006, 08:28:42 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2006, 08:28:42 PM
The Regional Rankings will show us what the committees are thinking.
However, GSAC-leading Maryville TN will get acknowledgement as one of the top teams in the 8-team South Region rankings. I am not sure Fisk will, unless they sweep Piedmont and win at Maryville in the next 3 weeks.
Lincoln will likely get acknowledgement in one slot of the 8-team Mid-Atlantic Region Rankings.
Chapman probably finishes 9-3 in the West Region with wins over UC-Santa Cruz. That in-region percentage may be enough. IMHO, participating and winning the West Region Independents' Post-season tourney will clinch a Pool B bid.
I strongly doubt that Bethany will get any recognition for one of the 6 Great Lakes Region rankings.
I strongly doubt that Baptist Bible, the leading eligible member of the North East AC, will receive any recognition in the Mid-Atlantic rankings.
I do not believe that an NIIC team can sneak into one of the 8 Midwest Region rankings, nor is one likely to salvage a season regional record to earn a bid, unless it runs the table.
For regional ranking ratios, see Page 18.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
In summary, my rankings for the 4 Pool B bids are:
1) Maryville TN
2) Lincoln
Probable:
3) Chapman
Bubble teams:
-- Bethany
-- Fisk
-- NIIC Champion
Dark Horse--
Baptist Bible
However, GSAC-leading Maryville TN will get acknowledgement as one of the top teams in the 8-team South Region rankings. I am not sure Fisk will, unless they sweep Piedmont and win at Maryville in the next 3 weeks.
Lincoln will likely get acknowledgement in one slot of the 8-team Mid-Atlantic Region Rankings.
Chapman probably finishes 9-3 in the West Region with wins over UC-Santa Cruz. That in-region percentage may be enough. IMHO, participating and winning the West Region Independents' Post-season tourney will clinch a Pool B bid.
I strongly doubt that Bethany will get any recognition for one of the 6 Great Lakes Region rankings.
I strongly doubt that Baptist Bible, the leading eligible member of the North East AC, will receive any recognition in the Mid-Atlantic rankings.
I do not believe that an NIIC team can sneak into one of the 8 Midwest Region rankings, nor is one likely to salvage a season regional record to earn a bid, unless it runs the table.
For regional ranking ratios, see Page 18.
http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf
In summary, my rankings for the 4 Pool B bids are:
1) Maryville TN
2) Lincoln
Probable:
3) Chapman
Bubble teams:
-- Bethany
-- Fisk
-- NIIC Champion
Dark Horse--
Baptist Bible
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 10:28:31 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 10:28:31 AM
Lincoln (8-4) 10.67 (Too bad they have some big wins against out of region opponents that don't count, a 15 and three 13's by my count)
I just ran the QOWI out of curiosity. Those road games help, but it's true that some of the best wins on Lincoln's schedule are out of region. Still, the outlook is promising. There aren't too many potential 8's and 9's to bring you down and a win over Richard Stockton would really be a great way to end the year. I think if Lincoln can get that game, they got a spot locked up. (That is assuming they don't lose before then).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 18, 2006, 12:23:45 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 18, 2006, 12:23:45 PM
Hoops Fan:
Lincoln has a game aganist Montclair State on Saturday night at Manhattanville College's tournament. Lincoln should win, but you never know, the Lions lost a heartbreaker to LVC. I'm giving the Lions a win at home in a close game with Richard Stockton. The other teams remaining on the schedule should be wins for the Lions. I don't know who the four teams will be in the year end DIII Independent East tourney?
Lincoln has a game aganist Montclair State on Saturday night at Manhattanville College's tournament. Lincoln should win, but you never know, the Lions lost a heartbreaker to LVC. I'm giving the Lions a win at home in a close game with Richard Stockton. The other teams remaining on the schedule should be wins for the Lions. I don't know who the four teams will be in the year end DIII Independent East tourney?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 01:40:17 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 01:40:17 PM
For kicks here is the QOWI for our "Contenders" and a mark on their chances for the rest of the season
Maryville (11-2- South) 11.62 need their opponents to keep winning
Lincoln (8-4- Mid-Atlantic) 10.67 need to win out to improve
Fisk (6-2- South) 10.13 they need to beat Maryville and hope the rest of the GSAC stays above .333
NebWes (5-1- West) 9.00 They might improve if they win an indy-west tourney
Chapman (7-3- West) 8.60 could improve if they win an indy-west tourney
Baptist Bible (7-3- Mid-Atlantic) 8.50 They don't really have a shot to get much higher; same boat as Bethany
Bethany (10-4- Great Lakes) 8.43 even if they win out, I don't think they get above nine
Aurora (5-5- Midwest) 8.40 If they can win out in conference, they might become a contender
I think Maryville is a lock; their only slip-up may be to Fisk, which would still put them solidly the #1 B choice.
Lincoln holds their own fate. I think they can get in with a loss to Stockton, but the win seals it.
Fisk can get in by winning out, but even if they lose to Maryville, I think they have a good shot.
I'm not sure how the committee feels about NebWes, but unless they beat Chapman at the end of the year, they don't make it.
Chapman, has to beat NebWes unless the teams below them choke. Bethany or Fisk may have to underachieve as well.
Baptist Bible needs to win out and probably have a couple teams above them lose.
Bethany needs to win out, period. If they do I think the committee rewards them.
Aurora's bid will depend on how the rest of the NIIC does; a lot of teams are hovering around .500, which could boost the QOWI, but they too will probably have to win out.
As far as Lincoln and an indy-east tourney... I'm not sure there would be much to gain from it this year. It could end up being St Joe's again and probably Newbury and Presque-Isle. At most they could offer two 11 point wins and I don't think Lincoln needs them unless they lose twice between now and then.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2006, 02:30:38 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2006, 02:30:38 PM
Great job, Hoops fan!
Thanks for the analysis. I strongly agree with your assessment! :)
Thanks for the analysis. I strongly agree with your assessment! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 03:49:06 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2006, 03:49:06 PM
High praise from Ralph; it's been a long time coming. Thanks for the support. I just wonder if my coworkers wonder why I suddenly need to use a calculator frequently every January, when I never touch the thing the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2006, 11:24:44 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2006, 11:24:44 PM
Hoopsfan, tonight Sewanee (5-10 overall / 4-8 region /1-4 conference ) threw a wrench into Maryville's QOWI with a 75-73 win. That loss is bordering on a 1 or 3 point QOWI loss for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2006, 09:16:50 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2006, 09:16:50 AM
Yeah, that was a quick turnaround. If Fisk can knock them off, Maryville falls to the bubble.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2006, 09:33:58 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 19, 2006, 09:33:58 AM
That loss dropped Maryville all the way down to 11.00, more than half a point in one night. Even some of their wins the rest of the way will be hurting the QOWI, so a loss to Fisk could be really bad; they need those 14 points.
Aurora's dropped to 8.36 with an 8 point win.
No one else played.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 20, 2006, 02:37:22 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 20, 2006, 02:37:22 PM
Here is the Top 100 in QOWi through games of Thursday, Jan. 19. This is as complete as the schools' score reporting allows. I went through today and garnered as many regional games as I could out of what was missing.
1-10
Lawrence 12.182
Carnegie Mellon 12.111
Worcester Polytech 11.714
Cortland State 11.583
St. John Fisher 11.556
Trinity (Texas) 11.500
Occidental 11.400
Augustana 11.385
Amherst 11.364
Mississippi College 11.333
11-20
Tufts 11.333
Illinois Wesleyan 11.300
Albion 11.167
William Paterson 11.154
North Central 11.000
Maryville (Tenn.) 10.857
Wartburg 10.667
York (Pa.) 10.615
New York University 10.538
Lincoln 10.500
21-30
Wittenberg 10.455
Hope 10.444
Randolph-Macon 10.385
Baruch 10.357
Baldwin-Wallace 10.357
Albright 10.333
Catholic 10.333
Gordon 10.273
Utica 10.273
Bates 10.273
31-40
UW-La Crosse 10.250
Endicott 10.200
Norwich 10.167
Mary Hardin-Baylor 10.154
Howard Payne 10.154
Puget Sound 10.143
Fisk 10.125
Johns Hopkins 10.083
New Jersey City 10.000
Transylvania 10.000
41-50
Lake Erie 10.000
UW-Oshkosh 10.000
Plymouth State 9.933
Wilmington 9.875
St. Thomas 9.846
Wooster 9.833
Carroll 9.818
Averett 9.800
Wilkes 9.800
Coe 9.778
51-60
Salem State 9.769
MIT 9.769
Washington U. 9.750
UW-Whitewater 9.727
Rochester 9.700
Trinity (Conn.) 9.700
Virginia Wesleyan 9.688
UW-Stout 9.667
Loras 9.667
Widener 9.643
61-70
Ursinus 9.643
Hanover 9.636
Richard Stockton 9.615
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.571
Keene State 9.571
Messiah 9.538
Bluffton 9.444
Williams 9.429
Villa Julie 9.417
Alvernia 9.333
71-80
Bowdoin 9.333
Mount St. Mary 9.250
Calvin 9.250
Whitworth 9.231
Franklin 9.231
UW-Platteville 9.231
Alfred 9.222
Southwestern 9.182
Coast Guard 9.167
New Jersey 9.167
81-90
Oglethorpe 9.167
Ramapo 9.167
Western Connecticut 9.154
Rutgers-Newark 9.133
Mary Washington 9.125
Chicago 9.111
Penn State-Behrend 9.111
Gustavus Adolphus 9.083
Salisbury 9.083
UW-Stevens Point 9.077
91-100
Muskingum 9.077
Elizabethtown 9.077
Southern Maine 9.063
Middlebury 9.000
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.000
Carleton 9.000
McMurry 9.000
Lakeland 9.000
Connecticut College 9.000
Scranton 9.000
1-10
Lawrence 12.182
Carnegie Mellon 12.111
Worcester Polytech 11.714
Cortland State 11.583
St. John Fisher 11.556
Trinity (Texas) 11.500
Occidental 11.400
Augustana 11.385
Amherst 11.364
Mississippi College 11.333
11-20
Tufts 11.333
Illinois Wesleyan 11.300
Albion 11.167
William Paterson 11.154
North Central 11.000
Maryville (Tenn.) 10.857
Wartburg 10.667
York (Pa.) 10.615
New York University 10.538
Lincoln 10.500
21-30
Wittenberg 10.455
Hope 10.444
Randolph-Macon 10.385
Baruch 10.357
Baldwin-Wallace 10.357
Albright 10.333
Catholic 10.333
Gordon 10.273
Utica 10.273
Bates 10.273
31-40
UW-La Crosse 10.250
Endicott 10.200
Norwich 10.167
Mary Hardin-Baylor 10.154
Howard Payne 10.154
Puget Sound 10.143
Fisk 10.125
Johns Hopkins 10.083
New Jersey City 10.000
Transylvania 10.000
41-50
Lake Erie 10.000
UW-Oshkosh 10.000
Plymouth State 9.933
Wilmington 9.875
St. Thomas 9.846
Wooster 9.833
Carroll 9.818
Averett 9.800
Wilkes 9.800
Coe 9.778
51-60
Salem State 9.769
MIT 9.769
Washington U. 9.750
UW-Whitewater 9.727
Rochester 9.700
Trinity (Conn.) 9.700
Virginia Wesleyan 9.688
UW-Stout 9.667
Loras 9.667
Widener 9.643
61-70
Ursinus 9.643
Hanover 9.636
Richard Stockton 9.615
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.571
Keene State 9.571
Messiah 9.538
Bluffton 9.444
Williams 9.429
Villa Julie 9.417
Alvernia 9.333
71-80
Bowdoin 9.333
Mount St. Mary 9.250
Calvin 9.250
Whitworth 9.231
Franklin 9.231
UW-Platteville 9.231
Alfred 9.222
Southwestern 9.182
Coast Guard 9.167
New Jersey 9.167
81-90
Oglethorpe 9.167
Ramapo 9.167
Western Connecticut 9.154
Rutgers-Newark 9.133
Mary Washington 9.125
Chicago 9.111
Penn State-Behrend 9.111
Gustavus Adolphus 9.083
Salisbury 9.083
UW-Stevens Point 9.077
91-100
Muskingum 9.077
Elizabethtown 9.077
Southern Maine 9.063
Middlebury 9.000
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.000
Carleton 9.000
McMurry 9.000
Lakeland 9.000
Connecticut College 9.000
Scranton 9.000
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 20, 2006, 02:49:20 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 20, 2006, 02:49:20 PM
Win R/N Pts: 13 2005-11-180.500EmoryMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Emory y
Win R/N Pts: 26 2005-11-19 0.583 OglethorpeMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Oglethorpe y
Win R/N Pts: 39 2005-11-22 0.545 CentreMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Centre n
Win H Pts: 51 2005-11-26 0.545 Maryville (Tenn.)RustMaryville (Tenn.)Rust n
Win R/N Pts: 64 2005-12-01 0.500 EmoryMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Emory n
Win R/N Pts: 73 2005-12-04 0.286 MethodistMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Methodist n
Win H Pts: 87 2005-12-10 0.800 Maryville (Tenn.)TransylvaniaMaryville (Tenn.)Transylvania n
Loss R Pts: 94 2005-12-17 0.800 AverettMaryville (Tenn.)AverettMaryville (Tenn.) n
Loss N Pts: 101 2005-12-29 0.800 Maryville (Tenn.)TransylvaniaTransylvaniaMaryville (Tenn.) y
Win HPts: 111 2006-01-07 0.333 Maryville (Tenn.)LaGrangeMaryville (Tenn.)LaGrange n
Win H Pts: 121 2006-01-08 0.455 Maryville (Tenn.)HuntingdonMaryville (Tenn.)Huntingdon n
Win R/NPts: 136 2006-01-11 0.750 FiskMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Fisk n
Win R/N Pts: 149 2006-01-14 0.600 PiedmontMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Piedmont n
Loss R Pts: 152 2006-01-18 0.333 SewaneeMaryville (Tenn.)SewaneeMaryville (Tenn.) n
This is the dump of the Maryville results as it went through our QOW calculator. It came up with 10.857 instead of 11.000 for the Scots, but I know this doesn't always have the 100% best information. While I think we have all regional games affecting Maryville in the system, is it apparent where the discrepancy is based on your calculations?
That winning percentage is the opponent's percentage. The team names are listed home/road/winner/loser, I believe. The points are cumulative for a team at the end of each of the listed games, total of 152.
Win R/N Pts: 26 2005-11-19 0.583 OglethorpeMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Oglethorpe y
Win R/N Pts: 39 2005-11-22 0.545 CentreMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Centre n
Win H Pts: 51 2005-11-26 0.545 Maryville (Tenn.)RustMaryville (Tenn.)Rust n
Win R/N Pts: 64 2005-12-01 0.500 EmoryMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Emory n
Win R/N Pts: 73 2005-12-04 0.286 MethodistMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Methodist n
Win H Pts: 87 2005-12-10 0.800 Maryville (Tenn.)TransylvaniaMaryville (Tenn.)Transylvania n
Loss R Pts: 94 2005-12-17 0.800 AverettMaryville (Tenn.)AverettMaryville (Tenn.) n
Loss N Pts: 101 2005-12-29 0.800 Maryville (Tenn.)TransylvaniaTransylvaniaMaryville (Tenn.) y
Win HPts: 111 2006-01-07 0.333 Maryville (Tenn.)LaGrangeMaryville (Tenn.)LaGrange n
Win H Pts: 121 2006-01-08 0.455 Maryville (Tenn.)HuntingdonMaryville (Tenn.)Huntingdon n
Win R/NPts: 136 2006-01-11 0.750 FiskMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Fisk n
Win R/N Pts: 149 2006-01-14 0.600 PiedmontMaryville (Tenn.)Maryville (Tenn.)Piedmont n
Loss R Pts: 152 2006-01-18 0.333 SewaneeMaryville (Tenn.)SewaneeMaryville (Tenn.) n
This is the dump of the Maryville results as it went through our QOW calculator. It came up with 10.857 instead of 11.000 for the Scots, but I know this doesn't always have the 100% best information. While I think we have all regional games affecting Maryville in the system, is it apparent where the discrepancy is based on your calculations?
That winning percentage is the opponent's percentage. The team names are listed home/road/winner/loser, I believe. The points are cumulative for a team at the end of each of the listed games, total of 152.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2006, 03:27:48 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 20, 2006, 03:27:48 PM
I didn't redo the whole thing after the loss, so one of the early opponents may have dropped a category. That's probably what happened.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 21, 2006, 10:14:47 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 21, 2006, 10:14:47 PM
Lincoln beats Montclair State University 100 - 84 in the first round of the 29th Annual Manhattanville College Castle Classic. The Lions take on host Manhattanville in the Championship tomorrow at 5:00, while Montclair State takes on Brooklyn College in the consolation game at 12:00 noon.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2006, 10:46:10 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2006, 10:46:10 PM
njlincolnlion, that is another good win. I think that 14-4 is a lock, if you count a post-season tourney.
I just don't have a feel for what the Committee will do with Chapman and NebWes.
Neb Wes and Chapman should be in the same independent tourney.
Whether they will be...
I just don't have a feel for what the Committee will do with Chapman and NebWes.
Neb Wes and Chapman should be in the same independent tourney.
Whether they will be...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 21, 2006, 10:58:54 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 21, 2006, 10:58:54 PM
Ralph:
I hope you're right about Lincoln's post seasons chances. I just got back from Manhattanville College in Purchase NY and saw the Lions in person for the first time this season. I had a chance to speak with Coach Yuille before the game, about the Lions season so far, and he was pleased with the teams performace for the most part.
Montclair got off to a early lead, and Lincoln chipped away and took the lead for good about three-quarters through the 1st half. Gian Paul Gonzalez finished with 51 points to Myricks 32 points, but Lincoln's depth and stamina took it's toll on The Red Hawks. Myricks finished with another double double. Unfortunately, a previous engagement will prevent me from going to the Championship game tomorrow. Hopefully the Lions will prevail in this tournament also.
I hope you're right about Lincoln's post seasons chances. I just got back from Manhattanville College in Purchase NY and saw the Lions in person for the first time this season. I had a chance to speak with Coach Yuille before the game, about the Lions season so far, and he was pleased with the teams performace for the most part.
Montclair got off to a early lead, and Lincoln chipped away and took the lead for good about three-quarters through the 1st half. Gian Paul Gonzalez finished with 51 points to Myricks 32 points, but Lincoln's depth and stamina took it's toll on The Red Hawks. Myricks finished with another double double. Unfortunately, a previous engagement will prevent me from going to the Championship game tomorrow. Hopefully the Lions will prevail in this tournament also.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on January 22, 2006, 08:50:45 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on January 22, 2006, 08:50:45 AM
Montclair is pretty much a one man team this year. But he is one hell of a player, imagine if they had a couple more really good players to compliment him.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 10:39:50 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 10:39:50 AM
I don't think there were any surprises this weekend. That Maryville loss was the only unexpected result recently. Chapman's game score against Santa Cruz isn't in, but I can't imagine they lost that game. Lincoln took the tournament, two games remain for them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on January 23, 2006, 03:48:42 PM
Post by: TeeDub on January 23, 2006, 03:48:42 PM
Isn't that a Chapman loss to UC Santa Cruz I see on the scoreboard?
UCSC 72
Chapman 66
That's gotta hurt!
UCSC 72
Chapman 66
That's gotta hurt!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 03:51:21 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 03:51:21 PM
Wow; they're done.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 23, 2006, 04:05:41 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 23, 2006, 04:05:41 PM
Whoopsy!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 04:48:45 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 23, 2006, 04:48:45 PM
The only Indy's still alive are:
Lincoln 10-4, MA Region- 11.00
St. Joe's (ME) 5-3, NE Region- 8.50
Chapman 7-4, W Region- 7.91
Nebraska Wesleyan 5-1, W Region- 9.33
Rust 7-5, S Region- 8.08
In the GSAC:
Fisk 7-2, S Region- 10.22
Maryville 12-3, S Region- 10.13
Piedmont 6-5, S Region- 8.36
In the NEAC:
Baptist Bible 8-3, MA Region- 9.00
Villa Julie 9-3, MA Region- 9.58
Keuka 6-3, MA Region- 8.11
In the PrAC:
Bethany 11-4, GL Region- 8.93
In the NIIC:
Aurora 7-5, MW Region- 8.50
Clarke 7-6, MW Region- 8.00
Even if any other team got the best possible finish they could, it would still not be enough to make them a contender.
Lincoln 10-4, MA Region- 11.00
St. Joe's (ME) 5-3, NE Region- 8.50
Chapman 7-4, W Region- 7.91
Nebraska Wesleyan 5-1, W Region- 9.33
Rust 7-5, S Region- 8.08
In the GSAC:
Fisk 7-2, S Region- 10.22
Maryville 12-3, S Region- 10.13
Piedmont 6-5, S Region- 8.36
In the NEAC:
Baptist Bible 8-3, MA Region- 9.00
Villa Julie 9-3, MA Region- 9.58
Keuka 6-3, MA Region- 8.11
In the PrAC:
Bethany 11-4, GL Region- 8.93
In the NIIC:
Aurora 7-5, MW Region- 8.50
Clarke 7-6, MW Region- 8.00
Even if any other team got the best possible finish they could, it would still not be enough to make them a contender.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 23, 2006, 08:28:45 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 23, 2006, 08:28:45 PM
Congratulations to Lincoln on regaining a top 25 position. Lincoln is now ranked 24th with an 18-4 record with three games remaining excluding the DIII Independent East tournament.
The Lions travel to Delaware Valley College on 2/2, and finish at home with Richard Stockton on 2/2 and Penn State Abington on 2/13. Richard Stockton could be tough, but I'd have to give the Lions the advantage playing at home in Manuel Rivero Hall which should be rockin.
I also feel that Lincoln playing so many games on the road, it should help the Lions in the post season being "Road Tested".
The Lions travel to Delaware Valley College on 2/2, and finish at home with Richard Stockton on 2/2 and Penn State Abington on 2/13. Richard Stockton could be tough, but I'd have to give the Lions the advantage playing at home in Manuel Rivero Hall which should be rockin.
I also feel that Lincoln playing so many games on the road, it should help the Lions in the post season being "Road Tested".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: r.w. mcnickels on January 24, 2006, 12:43:45 AM
Post by: r.w. mcnickels on January 24, 2006, 12:43:45 AM
In case anyone hasn't seen this - it's a good story about Lincoln's Kyle Myrick. I enjoyed watching him play in F&M's tournament. You don't see guys with his talent in D-III very often.
"Myrick hoping to go from jail to NBA"
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2290905
"Myrick hoping to go from jail to NBA"
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2290905
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on January 24, 2006, 01:01:58 AM
Post by: hugenerd on January 24, 2006, 01:01:58 AM
Lincoln also has a transfer from Temple who started 8 games for them last year, he is coming off the bench at Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 08:54:29 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 08:54:29 AM
Nice article. It's good to see DIII get some good pub.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on January 24, 2006, 01:31:02 PM
Post by: hugenerd on January 24, 2006, 01:31:02 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on January 14, 2006, 01:28:14 AM
There is an articles on Lincoln's Kyle Myrick on the ESPN Men's Basketball page right now, entitled, " Myrick hoping to go from jail to NBA", even a quote from Aaron Mckie of the Lakers saying Myrick could make it in the NBA:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?id=2290905
I also noticed that the transfer from Temple has started playing for Lincoln, looks like their guard play could be pretty solid going into the latter part of the season.
I posted that article 10 days ago, why didn't anyone read it then!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 01:36:17 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 24, 2006, 01:36:17 PM
Because you're a huge nerd
I have no idea; I don't remember seeing it.
I have no idea; I don't remember seeing it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2006, 07:31:37 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2006, 07:31:37 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 24, 2006, 01:36:17 PM
Because you're a huge nerd
I have no idea; I don't remember seeing it.
Something I often wondered about:
Hugenerd, are you huge and a nerd, or hugely nerdy? ;) ;D
Or neither of the above and just like the name!
[In whichever case, applause to you (AND to Hoops Fan for finally making me ask this compelling question!]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on January 24, 2006, 11:45:41 PM
Post by: hugenerd on January 24, 2006, 11:45:41 PM
Ill give you a little bio and you can come to conclusions on your own. I am about 6'1", 200 pounds, I played for CMU for 4 years as a backup guard and I am currently a doctoral student at MIT. I am not as in shape as I used to be but I am still at my playing weight. I recently had PhD qualifiers for which I read about 20 engineering texts cover to cover.
Let me know what category I fall under...
Let me know what category I fall under...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 08:43:25 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 08:43:25 AM
Good Lord, I think its both!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on January 25, 2006, 09:22:23 AM
Post by: Coach C on January 25, 2006, 09:22:23 AM
I am leaning toward more hugely nerdy and huge and nerdly.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 12:11:05 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 25, 2006, 12:11:05 PM
Villa Julie and Keuka both lost last night. Julie may still be alive, but that loss probably knocks Keuka off even the outside chance list.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on January 25, 2006, 12:57:36 PM
Post by: Coach C on January 25, 2006, 12:57:36 PM
I would agree that Keuka is out. Villa Julie is on the outside shot list. Maybe
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2006, 11:35:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2006, 11:35:26 PM
Oglethorpe 93, at Maryville TN 88
This may be another ugly QOWI loss from Maryville. Oglethorpe (8-7 South Region) has 7 SCAC games remaining, 5 on the road and SCAC leaders Southwestern and Trinity at home. If Oglethorpe goes 2-5 over that stretch, then the QOWI value to Maryville is only 2 points. Maryville is letting some Pool B's back in the door. The loss means a net drop of 0.40 points in the QOW Index for the 20-game South Region Schedule.
IMHO, FISK can gain the advantage by defeating MURVUL in the second round of conference and in the tourney.
Now Bethany fans, I am not sure for whom you need to root, FISK or MURVUL. :) ;)
This may be another ugly QOWI loss from Maryville. Oglethorpe (8-7 South Region) has 7 SCAC games remaining, 5 on the road and SCAC leaders Southwestern and Trinity at home. If Oglethorpe goes 2-5 over that stretch, then the QOWI value to Maryville is only 2 points. Maryville is letting some Pool B's back in the door. The loss means a net drop of 0.40 points in the QOW Index for the 20-game South Region Schedule.
IMHO, FISK can gain the advantage by defeating MURVUL in the second round of conference and in the tourney.
Now Bethany fans, I am not sure for whom you need to root, FISK or MURVUL. :) ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 25, 2006, 11:37:12 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 25, 2006, 11:37:12 PM
Does anyone want a pool B slot this year? ???
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2006, 11:57:45 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2006, 11:57:45 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 25, 2006, 11:37:12 PM
Does anyone want a pool B slot this year? ???
I don't suppose there is any chance of just eliminating pool B - toss 'em all into pool C? No. Oh, well, didn't think so! ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 08:52:41 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 08:52:41 AM
Lincoln still seems to want it as well as St. Joe's in Maine, who is going to have to earn it with their remaining schedule. Rust's season is going to depend on them beating Fisk to close out the year. NebWes is looking better and better every day, even with their crap schedule. And Bethany may actually get in. I guess that's why they are the Bumblin' Bs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 26, 2006, 01:09:02 PM
Post by: joe smith on January 26, 2006, 01:09:02 PM
Bethany right now is playing their best basketball of the year. They have won 10 in a row and currently are 15-4 after a 5-4 start. I admit that the PrAC is at an all time low with Waynesburg being the only other team over .500 and they're not even in 2nd place.
What's impressive is how dominate this team is in conference play. Conference games are always tougher no matter how bad the other teams are. Right now they are winning by an average of 22.6 points a game in league action. In my posting on the PrAC website (which no one visits haha) I believe I said they'll win all league games by an average of 20 a game. Halfway through conference play it looks like I'm right. Toughest game left: @ W&J, 2nd place right now at 5-1 in conference.
If Bethany doesn't get upset the rest of the way out they should finish 23-4 (including 2 conference touny wins). Last yr. they finished 24-3 before the NCAA tourny.
What's impressive is how dominate this team is in conference play. Conference games are always tougher no matter how bad the other teams are. Right now they are winning by an average of 22.6 points a game in league action. In my posting on the PrAC website (which no one visits haha) I believe I said they'll win all league games by an average of 20 a game. Halfway through conference play it looks like I'm right. Toughest game left: @ W&J, 2nd place right now at 5-1 in conference.
If Bethany doesn't get upset the rest of the way out they should finish 23-4 (including 2 conference touny wins). Last yr. they finished 24-3 before the NCAA tourny.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 26, 2006, 01:12:05 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 26, 2006, 01:12:05 PM
Hoops Fan:
You're right, Lincoln does want to keep Pool B. I would also add that they way some teams are trying to may make it in, we should re-name this board "The Stumblin Bumblin B's" ;D .
You're right, Lincoln does want to keep Pool B. I would also add that they way some teams are trying to may make it in, we should re-name this board "The Stumblin Bumblin B's" ;D .
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 01:12:49 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 01:12:49 PM
Yes, but Bethany's QOWI is going to be much lower this year, which will hurt them. Margin of Victory doesn't matter in the selection and only regional games count, so give me the regional record, which will be less than 23 wins and thus less imprpessive.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2006, 02:07:09 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2006, 02:07:09 PM
Joe Smith, I think that Bethany will get a Pool B by running the table and the conference tourney.
That will give an in-region record of 20-4.
The home loss to Marietta is probably worth "0" QOWI points.
The Bison's QOWI may be weak, but Maryville TN has had some weak QOWI losses to the SCAC teams, too.
Chapman's recent loss to UC-Banana Slug knocked their QOWI by 0.666 points.
The Bison have done a good job of "digging themselves out of an early season hole".
That will give an in-region record of 20-4.
The home loss to Marietta is probably worth "0" QOWI points.
The Bison's QOWI may be weak, but Maryville TN has had some weak QOWI losses to the SCAC teams, too.
Chapman's recent loss to UC-Banana Slug knocked their QOWI by 0.666 points.
The Bison have done a good job of "digging themselves out of an early season hole".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on January 26, 2006, 04:34:14 PM
Post by: joe smith on January 26, 2006, 04:34:14 PM
I agree totally. I know their QOWI is much lower then last year being they beat all the bad teams they faced last year (which was 80% of their schedule). The conference was also a lot better last year. Their loss to Marietta is the only bad loss I see on their schedule. Their other three losses come against CMU, Case Western, and Lake Erie. All with respectable records. It would have been nice to get 2 of those games. They lost on a buzzer beater at Case and Nate Maurer from CMU hit 2 free throws w/ a few seconds left to lift CMU to a 2-point win. They win those 2 games we're not even having this discusiion about Bethany being on the bubble. In fact, Bethany might even be ranked!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 04:47:32 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 26, 2006, 04:47:32 PM
I think they have to get to 20 wins to get in. That QOWI number is just not going to get better beating the teams on their schedule.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 27, 2006, 12:31:14 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 27, 2006, 12:31:14 PM
It's a funny game, isn't it? Maryville has lost three of its four games by a total of 10 points to teams they coulda/shoulda beaten and now have some real work to do, and with their leading scorer/post starter hobbling with a sprained ankle. I am sure other Pool B contenders have some similar story.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2006, 02:13:49 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 27, 2006, 02:13:49 PM
QOW index through games of Thursday, Jan. 26:
1-10
Worcester Polytech 11.938
Lawrence 11.917
Augustana 11.667
Amherst 11.286
Carnegie Mellon 11.182
St. John Fisher 11.167
Cortland State 11.133
York (Pa.) 11.133
Tufts 11.000
Trinity (Texas) 11.000
11-20
Bates 11.000
Wittenberg 10.923
Mississippi College 10.867
Occidental 10.857
Lincoln 10.857
Baldwin-Wallace 10.750
Albion 10.750
Hope 10.700
Illinois Wesleyan 10.667
Wooster 10.643
21-30
Gordon 10.571
Baruch 10.563
William Paterson 10.500
New York University 10.467
Fisk 10.444
Transylvania 10.412
UW-Oshkosh 10.400
Washington U. 10.400
North Central 10.364
Wartburg 10.357
31-40
Puget Sound 10.333
UW-La Crosse 10.278
Willamette 10.250
Endicott 10.231
Plymouth State 10.167
Calvin 10.167
MIT 10.071
Randolph-Macon 10.063
Carroll 10.000
Albright 9.929
41-50
UW-Stout 9.929
UW-Whitewater 9.923
Rochester 9.917
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.875
Ursinus 9.875
Widener 9.875
Johns Hopkins 9.857
Williams 9.824
Bluffton 9.818
Keene State 9.813
51-60
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.800
New Jersey 9.786
Howard Payne 9.733
Virginia Wesleyan 9.722
Mount St. Mary 9.667
Trinity (Conn.) 9.667
Utica 9.643
New Jersey City 9.625
Wilkes 9.583
Lake Erie 9.583
61-70
Hanover 9.538
Loras 9.538
Bowdoin 9.538
St. Thomas 9.533
Messiah 9.533
Norwich 9.533
Catholic 9.500
Ramapo 9.500
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.500
Wilmington 9.500
71-80
Elizabethtown 9.400
Lakeland 9.400
Carleton 9.385
Salem State 9.375
Averett 9.333
Rutgers-Newark 9.294
Whitworth 9.286
Elmhurst 9.286
UW-Platteville 9.286
Oswego State 9.267
81-90
McMurry 9.214
Franklin 9.200
Milwaukee Engineering 9.200
Southwestern 9.154
Muskingum 9.133
Mass-Dartmouth 9.071
Alvernia 9.067
UW-Stevens Point 9.067
Western Connecticut 9.063
Westfield State 9.063
91-100
Scranton 9.063
Rhode Island College 9.059
Salisbury 9.000
Brandeis 9.000
Penn State-Behrend 9.000
Pomona-Pitzer 9.000
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.000
Bethany 8.938
Richard Stockton 8.933
Ohio Northern 8.923
In the 100-110 range, Villa Julie 8.857, Baptist Bible 8.750.
1-10
Worcester Polytech 11.938
Lawrence 11.917
Augustana 11.667
Amherst 11.286
Carnegie Mellon 11.182
St. John Fisher 11.167
Cortland State 11.133
York (Pa.) 11.133
Tufts 11.000
Trinity (Texas) 11.000
11-20
Bates 11.000
Wittenberg 10.923
Mississippi College 10.867
Occidental 10.857
Lincoln 10.857
Baldwin-Wallace 10.750
Albion 10.750
Hope 10.700
Illinois Wesleyan 10.667
Wooster 10.643
21-30
Gordon 10.571
Baruch 10.563
William Paterson 10.500
New York University 10.467
Fisk 10.444
Transylvania 10.412
UW-Oshkosh 10.400
Washington U. 10.400
North Central 10.364
Wartburg 10.357
31-40
Puget Sound 10.333
UW-La Crosse 10.278
Willamette 10.250
Endicott 10.231
Plymouth State 10.167
Calvin 10.167
MIT 10.071
Randolph-Macon 10.063
Carroll 10.000
Albright 9.929
41-50
UW-Stout 9.929
UW-Whitewater 9.923
Rochester 9.917
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.875
Ursinus 9.875
Widener 9.875
Johns Hopkins 9.857
Williams 9.824
Bluffton 9.818
Keene State 9.813
51-60
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.800
New Jersey 9.786
Howard Payne 9.733
Virginia Wesleyan 9.722
Mount St. Mary 9.667
Trinity (Conn.) 9.667
Utica 9.643
New Jersey City 9.625
Wilkes 9.583
Lake Erie 9.583
61-70
Hanover 9.538
Loras 9.538
Bowdoin 9.538
St. Thomas 9.533
Messiah 9.533
Norwich 9.533
Catholic 9.500
Ramapo 9.500
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.500
Wilmington 9.500
71-80
Elizabethtown 9.400
Lakeland 9.400
Carleton 9.385
Salem State 9.375
Averett 9.333
Rutgers-Newark 9.294
Whitworth 9.286
Elmhurst 9.286
UW-Platteville 9.286
Oswego State 9.267
81-90
McMurry 9.214
Franklin 9.200
Milwaukee Engineering 9.200
Southwestern 9.154
Muskingum 9.133
Mass-Dartmouth 9.071
Alvernia 9.067
UW-Stevens Point 9.067
Western Connecticut 9.063
Westfield State 9.063
91-100
Scranton 9.063
Rhode Island College 9.059
Salisbury 9.000
Brandeis 9.000
Penn State-Behrend 9.000
Pomona-Pitzer 9.000
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.000
Bethany 8.938
Richard Stockton 8.933
Ohio Northern 8.923
In the 100-110 range, Villa Julie 8.857, Baptist Bible 8.750.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2006, 10:50:37 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2006, 10:50:37 AM
Hoops Fan said a few weeks ago that Aurora would probably need to win out in the NIIC to garner a Pool B berth, and given their undistinguished QOWI I tend to agree. But running the table in the NIIC now appears to be a definite possibility for the Spartans. They're 4-0 in league play, with six conference games (plus a meaningless contest against neighboring NAIA nonentity Judson) remaining. Their closest competitor is Clarke (2-1), and the Spartans handled them easily on Wednesday, winning 69-53 in Aurora.
Benedictine and Rockford are the other two traditionally tough programs in that league, but the Bennies are down this season; they've lost several of their big men to injury, and they're floundering uncharacteristically at 1-2 in the NIIC, 5-8 in the Midwest Region, and 7-10 overall. They're on a three-game losing streak heading into their home contest today against Aurora. Rockford? They're inconsistent (2-2 in the NIIC, 6-7 in the region, 11-8 overall), and Aurora's already beaten them in Rockford by six.
Concordia (IL) is undergoing something of a renaissance by their standards; their NIIC, regional, and overall records of 3-2, 7-8, and 8-10 are milestones of major success in usual CURF terms, and their team is very young (i.e., likely to play better as the season goes along). They might have the best chance of all NIIC teams of knocking off Aurora; the Spartans beat CURF in their initial matchup in Aurora last Saturday, 94-83. Eureka? The Red Devils are putrid, and Aurora will handle them easily in their return engagement.
Should the Spartans run the table and finish the year with a perfect 10-0 NIIC record, they'll wind up with a 14-5 Midwest Region record. Their QOWI will probably not improve enough to impress anyone, but with that kind of a regional record you have to figure that they'll get some attention on Selection Monday, given the omnipresent bumblitude of Pool B aspirants.
Benedictine and Rockford are the other two traditionally tough programs in that league, but the Bennies are down this season; they've lost several of their big men to injury, and they're floundering uncharacteristically at 1-2 in the NIIC, 5-8 in the Midwest Region, and 7-10 overall. They're on a three-game losing streak heading into their home contest today against Aurora. Rockford? They're inconsistent (2-2 in the NIIC, 6-7 in the region, 11-8 overall), and Aurora's already beaten them in Rockford by six.
Concordia (IL) is undergoing something of a renaissance by their standards; their NIIC, regional, and overall records of 3-2, 7-8, and 8-10 are milestones of major success in usual CURF terms, and their team is very young (i.e., likely to play better as the season goes along). They might have the best chance of all NIIC teams of knocking off Aurora; the Spartans beat CURF in their initial matchup in Aurora last Saturday, 94-83. Eureka? The Red Devils are putrid, and Aurora will handle them easily in their return engagement.
Should the Spartans run the table and finish the year with a perfect 10-0 NIIC record, they'll wind up with a 14-5 Midwest Region record. Their QOWI will probably not improve enough to impress anyone, but with that kind of a regional record you have to figure that they'll get some attention on Selection Monday, given the omnipresent bumblitude of Pool B aspirants.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 11:34:01 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 11:34:01 AM
Before the weekend, according to Pat's numbers:
15. Lincoln (10-4) 10.857
25. Fisk (7-2) 10.444
44. Maryville (Tenn.) (13-4) 9.875
97. Nebraska Wesleyan (5-1) 9.000
98. Bethany (13-4) 8.938
100+ Villa Julie (11-4) 8.857
100+ Baptist Bible (10-3) 8.750
Aurora (8-6) wasn't even on the list and lost at Benedictine over the weekend, probably eliminating the NIIC from contention in Pool B. They have six regional losses at this point, but could potentially slip in if they run out and some more teams above lose it.
Chapman (8-4) lost to the Banana Slugs on the road and beat them at home, both games dropping the QOWI number. They would have to bear NebWEs in a tourney final to even have a shot.
Rust (8-5) might be an outside shot still if they can beat Fisk to end the season.
St Joe's (6-3) will have to run the table to even be considered.
Baptist Bible and Villa Julie have little chance of improving their numbers all that much.
I think Bethany can get up over 9 pretty solidly with a run-out, very possible. I think they control their own destiny here.
Fisk and Maryville play each other twice more (assuming the GSAC tournament), so long as those are the only games they lose, they are probably in good shape. If one of them wins both, then the loser might drop to the bubble.
Lincoln, I have to say is in regardless, but a win over Richard Stockton is a shoe-in.
NebWes is the big question. They and Bethany may have to duke it out for the last spot.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 31, 2006, 12:54:33 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 31, 2006, 12:54:33 PM
Hoops Fan:
I like your analysis previous analysis on the state of the Bumblin B's. I posted a while ago about Richard Stockton, being a concern of mine, and that I would give Lincoln the edge because they are playing at home. Additionally, the transfers are playing now, and that makes Lincoln deeper than thet were when the Lions played Stockton very early in the season.
I spoke with Coach Yuille at the Manhattanville Castle Classic and he mentioned the Lions really get up for home games, since they have had so few, and they are getting tremendous support from the Lincoln community. It's also dosen't hurt to have Myricks leading the nation in scoring average, Wylie is #6 in 3 points, and and Darryl White is #7 in blocked shots. The crowd should really be "shy high" with the Lions back in the Top 25.
Before the Stockton game the Lions have to travel to Doylestown PA to take on the Delaware Valley Aggies for the final road game of the season on Friday. After the Stockton game, the Lions take on Penn State Abington at home, and I just saw on Lincoln's web site, the Lions will be hosting the Northeast DIII tourney.
I like your analysis previous analysis on the state of the Bumblin B's. I posted a while ago about Richard Stockton, being a concern of mine, and that I would give Lincoln the edge because they are playing at home. Additionally, the transfers are playing now, and that makes Lincoln deeper than thet were when the Lions played Stockton very early in the season.
I spoke with Coach Yuille at the Manhattanville Castle Classic and he mentioned the Lions really get up for home games, since they have had so few, and they are getting tremendous support from the Lincoln community. It's also dosen't hurt to have Myricks leading the nation in scoring average, Wylie is #6 in 3 points, and and Darryl White is #7 in blocked shots. The crowd should really be "shy high" with the Lions back in the Top 25.
Before the Stockton game the Lions have to travel to Doylestown PA to take on the Delaware Valley Aggies for the final road game of the season on Friday. After the Stockton game, the Lions take on Penn State Abington at home, and I just saw on Lincoln's web site, the Lions will be hosting the Northeast DIII tourney.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 01:03:05 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 01:03:05 PM
That tourney is about the dumbest thing Lincoln could do. Their resume will be no different if they win and they will be much worse off if they lose. They might even be worse off if they win, assuming they can't get teams with .667 records into it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on January 31, 2006, 02:23:35 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on January 31, 2006, 02:23:35 PM
I am not sure, but I think if a team is a member of the Independents Association they have to play in the tournament if selected.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 31, 2006, 02:53:07 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 31, 2006, 02:53:07 PM
It's probably good for them to get more games in before the NCAAs, since their season was so front loaded.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 31, 2006, 03:41:40 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 31, 2006, 03:41:40 PM
Quote from: smedindy on January 31, 2006, 02:53:07 PM
It's probably good for them to get more games in before the NCAAs, since their season was so front loaded.
Yes, Lincoln needs to get the games. If they cannot win the D3Indepedents tourney, they won't last the first round of the Dance.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 04:17:43 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 31, 2006, 04:17:43 PM
They just need to make sure they win. Those numbers are awfully pretty to selection committee members right now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 01, 2006, 11:30:33 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 01, 2006, 11:30:33 AM
Ralph & Hoops Fan:
I completely agree with regarding Lincoln. They play home for the remainder of the season after the Delaware Valley trip tomorrow, and if they slip up, they have no one but themselves to blame. All the remaing games Lincoln plays should be big wins except for Richard Stockton. As I have mentioned previously, the home court should give Lincoln the advantage over Stockton.
Last year Lincoln had to travel to Maine for the DIII tourney and lost to NJCU for the second time in the season in the Championship game, and that loss doomed their NCAA bid.
I completely agree with regarding Lincoln. They play home for the remainder of the season after the Delaware Valley trip tomorrow, and if they slip up, they have no one but themselves to blame. All the remaing games Lincoln plays should be big wins except for Richard Stockton. As I have mentioned previously, the home court should give Lincoln the advantage over Stockton.
Last year Lincoln had to travel to Maine for the DIII tourney and lost to NJCU for the second time in the season in the Championship game, and that loss doomed their NCAA bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 11:35:41 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 01, 2006, 11:35:41 AM
Just to comfort you, last year, I'm not sure Lincoln would have gotten in without a win over NJCU and the trip to Maine was their only chance. They've gotten smarter this year, ending at home.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 12:03:17 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 12:03:17 AM
Big win for Fisk at Maryville TN 86-76.
Maryville had come off their rivalry win over D2 Carson-Newman on Monday night and may have not had as much left in their tank.
Fisk is now 8-2 in-region. We see the Regional Rankings next Wednesday.
Fisk has 4 winnable in-region games before the GSAC tourney, which I understand will be at Huntingdon this year.
If they pick up 2 more wins in the Tourney, then 14-2 in-region is a lock. 13-3 looks good.
Maryville is 13-5 in South Region games. They have games at Huntingdon and at LaGrange. I respect both of those coaches to field teams who play hard. I would not consider a Maryville defeat an upset, just LaGrange and Huntingdon "putting it all together" on that night. Infact, Huntingdon could run the table and clinch no less than tri-champs. (Huntingdon hosts Fisk and Maryville next weekend.)
For Maryville, going 15-5 in region is probably safe. Losing a GSAC game and a game in the tourney, 15-7 might be a stretch.
In any case, I am looking at the GSAC to get 2 Pool B's.
See also Hoops Fan's reply #263 from Jan 31st on page 18 of this message board.
Maryville had come off their rivalry win over D2 Carson-Newman on Monday night and may have not had as much left in their tank.
Fisk is now 8-2 in-region. We see the Regional Rankings next Wednesday.
Fisk has 4 winnable in-region games before the GSAC tourney, which I understand will be at Huntingdon this year.
If they pick up 2 more wins in the Tourney, then 14-2 in-region is a lock. 13-3 looks good.
Maryville is 13-5 in South Region games. They have games at Huntingdon and at LaGrange. I respect both of those coaches to field teams who play hard. I would not consider a Maryville defeat an upset, just LaGrange and Huntingdon "putting it all together" on that night. Infact, Huntingdon could run the table and clinch no less than tri-champs. (Huntingdon hosts Fisk and Maryville next weekend.)
For Maryville, going 15-5 in region is probably safe. Losing a GSAC game and a game in the tourney, 15-7 might be a stretch.
In any case, I am looking at the GSAC to get 2 Pool B's.
See also Hoops Fan's reply #263 from Jan 31st on page 18 of this message board.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:11:55 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:11:55 AM
Villa Julie lost to one of the provisionals yesterday. I guess this has no effect, but it can't bode well for their actual match-ups yet to come.
I think Lincoln is in already. Fisk has a spot just about locked up.
Maryville is going to have to get focused and win these next two games and one in the GSAC tournament to solidify their spot.
I think it then comes down to Bethany or NebWes for the last spot. I just can't imagine that the committee would let NebWes in over a potential 20 win team in Bethany.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 09:14:43 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 09:14:43 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2006, 09:11:55 AM
... I think it then comes down to Bethany or NebWes for the last spot. I just can't imagine that the committee would let NebWes in over a potential 20 win team in Bethany.
My sentiments, exactly, Hoops Fan.
We might see a Pool B getting the "last Pool C bid".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:22:22 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:22:22 AM
Can the committee really take NebWes seriously for a Pool B or a Pool C with the schedule they play? Their QOWI number stinks and they have only 7 d3 games on the schedule. Rust got overlooked the last few years with a similar situation.
It just seems rediculous that a 6-1 Nebraska Wesleyan squad would get compared favorably to an 18-6 Tufts squad for example (if it pans out that way) or even a 15-5 Bluffton team for that matter?
I don't know exactly, but I'm trying to come up with squads that might be competing for the 18th Pool C spot.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 09:37:52 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 09:37:52 AM
Hoops Fan, NebWes has one more West Region game against Colorado College which will be an 8-pt QOWI win.
Their QOWI will hang around 9.0.
You have a good point. I was imagining Neb Wes as the 4th and Bethany as the "5th" when I wrote that.
Their QOWI will hang around 9.0.
You have a good point. I was imagining Neb Wes as the 4th and Bethany as the "5th" when I wrote that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:44:39 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 09:44:39 AM
The problem is if there is a west coast indy tournament (any word on that by the way), that would probably mean an 8 point win for Nebraska Wesleyan and then either a 7 point loss to Chapman or a 13 point win over Chapman (ironically, the win would drop Chapman below .667).
I just don't know how that would be evaluated. I know you can't hold distance against an isolated team, but Lincoln, Nebraska is not exactly far from the Iowa schools, etc. At some point the NCAA has to realize that there should be consequences to not playing the games you're supposed to play. I know they have a "petition" to not play half your games against d3 opponents, but the criteria should not be so open. Rust got it together this year; they're going to have 14 region games. I just don't know what the committee is goign to do.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 02, 2006, 02:14:26 PM
Post by: joe smith on February 02, 2006, 02:14:26 PM
Bethany smacks another crappy conference opponent last night by 24 (Thomas More). Currently they stand 17-4 and 14-4 in the region. I believe they have 4 more conference games left (3 on the road) including an away game against 2nd place W&J plus the conference tourny. Do you really think it's likely Bethany could get a pool C bid rather then a pool B? What are their chances if they happen to get upset in the next 4 games or in the conference tourny? They should still finish with 20-plus wins either way.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 03:05:55 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 03:05:55 PM
Didn't the PrAC champ get a C bid a year or so ago? I think there was very much the same case as were currently projecting for this season. Although, it was based on regional ranking, which I'm not sure Bethany is going to get this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 03:07:56 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2006, 03:07:56 PM
There's lots of extra C bids this year. We're talking about 6 in-region loss teams getting looks (maybe even 7 in the midwest). I think Bethany has a good a chance as anyone. (However, I still think they get that last B bid).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 02, 2006, 05:20:16 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 02, 2006, 05:20:16 PM
Maryville has a week to get ready for Huntingdon and LaGrange and to figure out what to do without thier second leading scorer and POY candidate in the GSAC who is out with an ACL injury. I am sure they will be well-prepared but the players have to execute the plan! If they play Fisk again in the GSAC tournament (at Huntingdon) it will be a real challenge. Fisk has six seniors and they looked more formidable last night than D2 Carson-Newman, whom Maryville (finally) beat on Monday. The rivalry between Fisk and Maryville has turned decidedly unfriendly after last night, so this should be interesting.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 07:50:09 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 02, 2006, 07:50:09 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2006, 03:05:55 PM
Didn't the PrAC champ get a C bid a year or so ago? I think there was very much the same case as were currently projecting for this season. Although, it was based on regional ranking, which I'm not sure Bethany is going to get this year.
Bethany got a Pool B bid in 2005.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2006, 03:07:56 PM
There's lots of extra C bids this year. We're talking about 6 in-region loss teams getting looks (maybe even 7 in the midwest). I think Bethany has a good a chance as anyone. (However, I still think they get that last B bid).
I really wonder if Pool C will drop below the 19-6 group (0.760 winning percentage) or even the 18-6 group (0.750 winning percentage) of in-region records. We have 18 Pool C bids, but that is very far down the list. That is what we are pondering.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 02, 2006, 09:14:12 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 02, 2006, 09:14:12 PM
Lincoln beat Delaware Valley in the Lions final away game for the regular season 126-85. The remaining games will be played in the friendly confines of Manuel Rivero Hall.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2006, 08:57:27 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2006, 08:57:27 AM
Fisk goes down last night, just adding more fuel to the fire.
I will say it again; outside of Lincoln, absolutely nobody wants a Pool B bid; nobody.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 03, 2006, 09:37:22 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 03, 2006, 09:37:22 AM
I think I said that too - it's just insane.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 12:21:14 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 12:21:14 PM
The specifics on the Lincoln/Delaware Valley game:
Sami Wylie hit thirteen treys for 39 points (all his points).
Kyle Myrick finished with 37 pts. & 20 assists.
Tyreek Byard had 18 pts. & 8 boards.
Darryl White had 14 pts., 12 boards, and 4 blocked shots.
The next game for Lincoln is at home aganist Richard Stockton
Sami Wylie hit thirteen treys for 39 points (all his points).
Kyle Myrick finished with 37 pts. & 20 assists.
Tyreek Byard had 18 pts. & 8 boards.
Darryl White had 14 pts., 12 boards, and 4 blocked shots.
The next game for Lincoln is at home aganist Richard Stockton
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2006, 12:31:33 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 03, 2006, 12:31:33 PM
Knoxville 88, Fisk 82.
Knoxville, an HBCU, belongs in the "other" category. I don't find them under NCAA, NCCAA or USCAA.
If Fisk were to lose one more game, this might be the most "palatable".
Knoxville, an HBCU, belongs in the "other" category. I don't find them under NCAA, NCCAA or USCAA.
If Fisk were to lose one more game, this might be the most "palatable".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on February 03, 2006, 12:52:41 PM
Post by: wilburt on February 03, 2006, 12:52:41 PM
It's just the same ole pattern Ralph. After a big win, Fisk comes out flat the next day and loses. It has happened in years past after those 2 big wins against Tennessee State. Now it has happened twice this year, first after beating Randy-Mac and now after beating Murvul. This is one of the most unpredictable Fisk teams in recent years. I have never seen a team with soooo much talent lack soooo much consistency from one game to the next!
I'm almost scared to see what my Bulldogs will do if and when they get a Pool B bid. They could just as easily lose in the first round and as they could get to the Final Four. Go figure?
I'm almost scared to see what my Bulldogs will do if and when they get a Pool B bid. They could just as easily lose in the first round and as they could get to the Final Four. Go figure?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 03, 2006, 01:08:03 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 03, 2006, 01:08:03 PM
With all the games on back-to-back nights in the NCAA Tournament (save five first-round games) a team like Fisk could struggle.
A team like Lincoln could excel.
Lincoln/Richard Stockton will be carried on D3hoopsNet on Monday, by the way.
A team like Lincoln could excel.
Lincoln/Richard Stockton will be carried on D3hoopsNet on Monday, by the way.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 02:47:13 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 02:47:13 PM
Pat:
Thanks for the info that Richard Stockton vs. Lincoln will be carried on D3hoopsnet on Monday. I heard that one of Stockton's key player is ineligible this semester, and will not play aganist Lincoln this time.
As it was mentioned earlier in the season, Lincoln had a tough road schedule, with a lot of tournament games. Lincoln won all of the tournaments except for the Randolph-Macon. I agree that emerging from the schedule Lincoln had should help them in the post season.
Wilburt:
Good luck to the Bulldogs during the remainder of the season.
Thanks for the info that Richard Stockton vs. Lincoln will be carried on D3hoopsnet on Monday. I heard that one of Stockton's key player is ineligible this semester, and will not play aganist Lincoln this time.
As it was mentioned earlier in the season, Lincoln had a tough road schedule, with a lot of tournament games. Lincoln won all of the tournaments except for the Randolph-Macon. I agree that emerging from the schedule Lincoln had should help them in the post season.
Wilburt:
Good luck to the Bulldogs during the remainder of the season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2006, 02:53:32 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 03, 2006, 02:53:32 PM
Thirteen threes? Twenty assists? You posted that like it was no big deal; that's huge. Two guys scored 37 or more in one game? And I just checked Myrick has 1448 points in 51 games. That's quite a feat.
And knoxville isn't d3, so Fisk doesn't lose anything in the B race; I forgot to check on that.
Lincoln seems to be getting it together. I'll be interested to see what they can do against Stockton.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 08:22:46 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 08:22:46 PM
Hoops Fan:
Smai Wylie's 13 treys and Kyle Myrick's 20 assists are Lincoln records. I believe Myrick may have been about six assists short of a d3 record, and Wylie may have also been close to a d3 record also. I was trying to be modest in my previous posts about their performance. ;D
I'm hoping that Stockton's loss of a starter for the second semester and Lincoln's addition of the two transfers coupled with playing at home will bode well for the Lions. As I previously mentioned, Lincoln came back from a 19 point deficit with about 6 minutes left and beat Stockton at the Elizabethtown College tournament early in the season. I hope the Lions get off to a great start and keeps the "hammer" on the Ospreys for the entire game.
Smai Wylie's 13 treys and Kyle Myrick's 20 assists are Lincoln records. I believe Myrick may have been about six assists short of a d3 record, and Wylie may have also been close to a d3 record also. I was trying to be modest in my previous posts about their performance. ;D
I'm hoping that Stockton's loss of a starter for the second semester and Lincoln's addition of the two transfers coupled with playing at home will bode well for the Lions. As I previously mentioned, Lincoln came back from a 19 point deficit with about 6 minutes left and beat Stockton at the Elizabethtown College tournament early in the season. I hope the Lions get off to a great start and keeps the "hammer" on the Ospreys for the entire game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 10:24:47 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 10:24:47 PM
Wow!!!.....I just found out the inelgible Stockton player is Kris Polk, their starting guard and second leading scorer behind Tobias Smith.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 03, 2006, 11:16:54 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 03, 2006, 11:16:54 PM
Am I correct in my belief that Lincoln and Fisk are both HBCUs, and that they are the only HBCUs in D3? (I confess that that I know nothing of Lincoln; Fisk I grew quite familiar with when I lived in Nashville. It's a very impressive school.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2006, 12:16:29 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2006, 12:16:29 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 03, 2006, 11:16:54 PM
Am I correct in my belief that Lincoln and Fisk are both HBCUs, and that they are the only HBCUs in D3? (I confess that that I know nothing of Lincoln; Fisk I grew quite familiar with when I lived in Nashville. It's a very impressive school.)
Rust College in Holly Springs MS, about 40 miles southeast of Memphis TN, is the third HBCU in D3. Rust is too far west for the GSAC, too far east and north for the ASC-East and too far south for the SLIAC. Proverbially, they are in the middle of "D3-nowhere".
Stillman College in Tuscaloosa, AL moved to D2 about 3 years ago to take advantage of natural rivalries, especially football.
There are a large number of HBCU D2's, D-IAA's and NAIA's in the South. Rust must have a very secure concept of D3 to continue as an indepedent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 04, 2006, 12:32:39 AM
Post by: David Collinge on February 04, 2006, 12:32:39 AM
Oh yes. I've even been to Rust a few times. I forget that they're D3, probably because they're independent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on February 04, 2006, 12:54:06 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on February 04, 2006, 12:54:06 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on February 03, 2006, 10:24:47 PM
Wow!!!.....I just found out the inelgible Stockton player is Kris Polk, their starting guard and second leading scorer behind Tobias Smith.
And they have been hot since returning from the semester break.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on February 04, 2006, 08:30:47 AM
Post by: Coach C on February 04, 2006, 08:30:47 AM
The Sotckton - Lincoln game should be an interesting battle of tempo, as the Lions try to run it up and down and Stockton likes the half court game.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2006, 12:57:43 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2006, 12:57:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 02, 2006, 09:44:39 AMI know you can't hold distance against an isolated team, but Lincoln, Nebraska is not exactly far from the Iowa schools, etc.
NebWes is at least a 3 1/2 hour drive from any of the closest IIAC schools (Buena Vista and Simpson). That's chicken feed if you're an ASC team (where "bus ride" and "marathon" usually belong in the same sentence), but it isn't close by anybody else's standards in D3.
NebWes does what it can in a difficult situation that, frankly, makes me wonder sometimes why they even bother to stay D3 rather than just throw up their hands and go NAIA like the rest of their league. They've made a concerted effort to overcome their geographical isolation and tried to play as many D3 West Region games as possible. However, their league (the GPAC) has expanded a lot in recent years, and now consists of 13 schools. The GPAC plays an 18-game conference schedule, which is no big deal for the NAIA members, given their longer season. But it's a big deal for NebWes, because D3's 25-game regular season limit means that they only get seven non-con openings to fill with D3 opponents. Give credit to NebWes, because every one of those seven openings in the sked has been filled with a D3 West Region opponent.
I've read that their longtime rival Doane is exploring the possibility of moving from NAIA to NCAA D3, which would be a welcome break for NebWes. It'd mean two more in-region games per season if Doane actually took the plunge and waited out their provisional period, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2006, 02:47:34 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2006, 02:47:34 PM
Alright, I got sidetracked from posting these yesterday but they are indeed accurate going into Friday's games.
The QOWI through games of Thursday, Feb., 2:
1-10
Augustana 11.765
Lawrence 11.600
Worcester Polytech 11.556
Occidental 11.444
Cortland State 11.412
Amherst 11.235
Wittenberg 11.067
St. John Fisher 11.000
Carnegie Mellon 11.000
York (Pa.) 10.941
11-20
Fisk 10.900
Mississippi College 10.824
Illinois Wesleyan 10.786
Trinity (Texas) 10.667
Tufts 10.667
Baruch 10.611
Wooster 10.563
New York University 10.529
Hope 10.500
Bates 10.471
21-30
Lincoln 10.467
Baldwin-Wallace 10.444
Transylvania 10.421
Gordon 10.412
UW-La Crosse 10.400
Washington U. 10.333
William Paterson 10.278
Wartburg 10.235
Albion 10.222
North Central 10.077
31-40
UW-Stout 10.063
Keene State 10.059
Williams 10.056
Virginia Wesleyan 10.050
Catholic 10.000
Carroll 10.000
Howard Payne 9.941
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.889
Trinity (Conn.) 9.857
Willamette 9.846
41-50
Puget Sound 9.833
Endicott 9.813
Hanover 9.800
Johns Hopkins 9.750
Randolph-Macon 9.722
Calvin 9.714
MIT 9.706
Plymouth State 9.700
Southwestern 9.667
St. Thomas 9.667
51-60
Lake Erie 9.643
New Jersey 9.625
Alvernia 9.588
Carleton 9.563
Utica 9.563
Salem State 9.556
UW-Whitewater 9.533
Rhode Island College 9.526
Averett 9.500
Widener 9.500
61-70
Richard Stockton 9.471
Westfield State 9.444
UW-Oshkosh 9.412
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.400
Lakeland 9.389
Ursinus 9.389
Albright 9.375
Norwich 9.375
Coe 9.357
Rochester 9.357
71-80
Elizabethtown 9.353
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333
Elmhurst 9.313
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.294
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.278
Christopher Newport 9.250
Franklin 9.235
Milwaukee Engineering 9.235
Rutgers-Newark 9.211
Loras 9.188
81-90
Oswego State 9.176
New Jersey City 9.167
Bluffton 9.154
Whitworth 9.125
Messiah 9.118
Chicago 9.077
Brockport State 9.071
Hamilton 9.071
Wilkes 9.071
Coast Guard 9.056
91-100
Muskingum 9.000
Mount St. Mary 9.000
McMurry 9.000
Brandeis 8.944
UW-Stevens Point 8.941
Plattsburgh State 8.933
Mary Washington 8.917
Pomona-Pitzer 8.900
Mass-Boston 8.882
Bowdoin 8.875
The QOWI through games of Thursday, Feb., 2:
1-10
Augustana 11.765
Lawrence 11.600
Worcester Polytech 11.556
Occidental 11.444
Cortland State 11.412
Amherst 11.235
Wittenberg 11.067
St. John Fisher 11.000
Carnegie Mellon 11.000
York (Pa.) 10.941
11-20
Fisk 10.900
Mississippi College 10.824
Illinois Wesleyan 10.786
Trinity (Texas) 10.667
Tufts 10.667
Baruch 10.611
Wooster 10.563
New York University 10.529
Hope 10.500
Bates 10.471
21-30
Lincoln 10.467
Baldwin-Wallace 10.444
Transylvania 10.421
Gordon 10.412
UW-La Crosse 10.400
Washington U. 10.333
William Paterson 10.278
Wartburg 10.235
Albion 10.222
North Central 10.077
31-40
UW-Stout 10.063
Keene State 10.059
Williams 10.056
Virginia Wesleyan 10.050
Catholic 10.000
Carroll 10.000
Howard Payne 9.941
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.889
Trinity (Conn.) 9.857
Willamette 9.846
41-50
Puget Sound 9.833
Endicott 9.813
Hanover 9.800
Johns Hopkins 9.750
Randolph-Macon 9.722
Calvin 9.714
MIT 9.706
Plymouth State 9.700
Southwestern 9.667
St. Thomas 9.667
51-60
Lake Erie 9.643
New Jersey 9.625
Alvernia 9.588
Carleton 9.563
Utica 9.563
Salem State 9.556
UW-Whitewater 9.533
Rhode Island College 9.526
Averett 9.500
Widener 9.500
61-70
Richard Stockton 9.471
Westfield State 9.444
UW-Oshkosh 9.412
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.400
Lakeland 9.389
Ursinus 9.389
Albright 9.375
Norwich 9.375
Coe 9.357
Rochester 9.357
71-80
Elizabethtown 9.353
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333
Elmhurst 9.313
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.294
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.278
Christopher Newport 9.250
Franklin 9.235
Milwaukee Engineering 9.235
Rutgers-Newark 9.211
Loras 9.188
81-90
Oswego State 9.176
New Jersey City 9.167
Bluffton 9.154
Whitworth 9.125
Messiah 9.118
Chicago 9.077
Brockport State 9.071
Hamilton 9.071
Wilkes 9.071
Coast Guard 9.056
91-100
Muskingum 9.000
Mount St. Mary 9.000
McMurry 9.000
Brandeis 8.944
UW-Stevens Point 8.941
Plattsburgh State 8.933
Mary Washington 8.917
Pomona-Pitzer 8.900
Mass-Boston 8.882
Bowdoin 8.875
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 04, 2006, 10:42:45 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 04, 2006, 10:42:45 PM
David Collinge:
Yes Lincoln University in Pennsylvania is a HBCU founded in 1854, as the nation's oldest HBCU founded for the purposes of educating men of African descent.
Aside from Langston Hughes, Thurgood Marshall, Actor Roscoe Lee Browne (and former world record holder in the 880), Nnamdi Azikiwe (First President of Nigeria), Kwame Nkrumah (First President of Ghana), Horace Mann Bond, (Father of Julian Bond) are just a few notable alumns.
Monte Irvin (Negro Major league and former New York Giant Baseball player), and Cab Calloway attended Lincoln, but did not graduate.
Lincoln, like Rust College, is a D3 independent school, whose track & Field teams has won 16 NCAA championships. Lincoln won the 1923 & 1924 CIAA Football championships when the university sponsored the sport. You can find out more about Lincon on it website www.lincoln.edu .
Yes Lincoln University in Pennsylvania is a HBCU founded in 1854, as the nation's oldest HBCU founded for the purposes of educating men of African descent.
Aside from Langston Hughes, Thurgood Marshall, Actor Roscoe Lee Browne (and former world record holder in the 880), Nnamdi Azikiwe (First President of Nigeria), Kwame Nkrumah (First President of Ghana), Horace Mann Bond, (Father of Julian Bond) are just a few notable alumns.
Monte Irvin (Negro Major league and former New York Giant Baseball player), and Cab Calloway attended Lincoln, but did not graduate.
Lincoln, like Rust College, is a D3 independent school, whose track & Field teams has won 16 NCAA championships. Lincoln won the 1923 & 1924 CIAA Football championships when the university sponsored the sport. You can find out more about Lincon on it website www.lincoln.edu .
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on February 05, 2006, 08:19:13 AM
Post by: wilburt on February 05, 2006, 08:19:13 AM
David Collinge and njlincolnlion:
Interesting that Julian Bond's father went to Lincoln, but his mother Julia Washington Bond is a Fisk alumna (Class of 1929). He is named for his mother. Plus, Horace Bond was a professor at Fisk at one time. Small world.
Proud history that Lincoln has...
Interesting that Julian Bond's father went to Lincoln, but his mother Julia Washington Bond is a Fisk alumna (Class of 1929). He is named for his mother. Plus, Horace Bond was a professor at Fisk at one time. Small world.
Proud history that Lincoln has...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 08:59:38 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 08:59:38 AM
Surprised Lincoln and Fisk and Rust don't play each other, esp. with Lincoln's propensity to travel and the latter's lack of D-III opponents.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on February 05, 2006, 10:56:55 AM
Post by: gordonmann on February 05, 2006, 10:56:55 AM
Speaking of Lincoln...
D3hoopsNet will broadcast Monday night's game between the No. 22 Lincoln Lions and the Richard Stockton Ospreys.
This will be Lincoln's last chance to notch a regional win, at least until the Independent Tournament. Meanwhile Richard Stockton will try to keep the momentum going for their final push in the NJAC race.
Pregame coverage begins at 7:50 PM with tip-off at 8 PM on www.bcmonsters.com.
D3hoopsNet will broadcast Monday night's game between the No. 22 Lincoln Lions and the Richard Stockton Ospreys.
This will be Lincoln's last chance to notch a regional win, at least until the Independent Tournament. Meanwhile Richard Stockton will try to keep the momentum going for their final push in the NJAC race.
Pregame coverage begins at 7:50 PM with tip-off at 8 PM on www.bcmonsters.com.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 05, 2006, 01:49:21 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 05, 2006, 01:49:21 PM
Fisk and Rust play each other home and home this year...Fisk won the first one, at Rust.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 01:55:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 01:55:36 PM
I am fully aware of that. However, neither of them plays Lincoln, which was my point.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 01:58:07 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 01:58:07 PM
Fisk (Nashville) and Rust (Holly Springs) aren't all that far apart; in fact, it'd be a beautiful daytime bus ride if they went the most direct route, through the Tennessee Valley. I would think they'd want to play each other every year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2006, 04:58:12 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2006, 04:58:12 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 01:58:07 PM
Fisk (Nashville) and Rust (Holly Springs) aren't all that far apart; in fact, it'd be a beautiful daytime bus ride if they went the most direct route, through the Tennessee Valley. I would think they'd want to play each other every year.
But driving from Nashville to Memphis is another 3 hours farther west.
What makes sense to me is to have a D3 Tourney with sponsors in Nashville with Rust, Lincoln and Fisk. Lincoln gets 2 D3 opponents in one fell swoop.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 05:17:55 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 05:17:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2006, 04:58:12 PMQuote from: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 01:58:07 PM
Fisk (Nashville) and Rust (Holly Springs) aren't all that far apart; in fact, it'd be a beautiful daytime bus ride if they went the most direct route, through the Tennessee Valley. I would think they'd want to play each other every year.
But driving from Nashville to Memphis is another 3 hours farther west.
What makes sense to me is to have a D3 Tourney with sponsors in Nashville with Rust, Lincoln and Fisk. Lincoln gets 2 D3 opponents in one fell swoop.
I'm not following you, Ralph. Holly Springs is near Memphis; about 45 miles southeast, in north central Mississippi. Nashville to Holly Springs, the direct way, would be southwest about 3 hours, maybe more. You could even take the Natchez Trace most of the way if you were so inclined (although that would take longer, and probably buses are not permitted.)
I figured you of all regular posters would agree that 3 hours is not a long bus ride. :D
Did you have a fourth team in mind for your Fisk-hosted tournament? Should they invite Tennessee State, with whom Fisk has a cross-town rivalry? Or maybe they should hold it in Memphis and invite LeMoyne-Owen, D3's first national champion, for old times' sake? (Or Rhodes, for that matter; who says it has to be HBCU-only?)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 05:48:39 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 05:48:39 PM
University of Dallas, for the sake of helping out a fellow independent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2006, 07:50:43 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2006, 07:50:43 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 05:17:55 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 05, 2006, 04:58:12 PMQuote from: David Collinge on February 05, 2006, 01:58:07 PM
Fisk (Nashville) and Rust (Holly Springs) aren't all that far apart; in fact, it'd be a beautiful daytime bus ride if they went the most direct route, through the Tennessee Valley. I would think they'd want to play each other every year.
But driving from Nashville to Memphis is another 3 hours farther west.
What makes sense to me is to have a D3 Tourney with sponsors in Nashville with Rust, Lincoln and Fisk. Lincoln gets 2 D3 opponents in one fell swoop.
I'm not following you, Ralph. Holly Springs is near Memphis; about 45 miles southeast, in north central Mississippi. Nashville to Holly Springs, the direct way, would be southwest about 3 hours, maybe more. You could even take the Natchez Trace most of the way if you were so inclined (although that would take longer, and probably buses are not permitted.)
I figured you of all regular posters would agree that 3 hours is not a long bus ride. :D
Did you have a fourth team in mind for your Fisk-hosted tournament? Should they invite Tennessee State, with whom Fisk has a cross-town rivalry? Or maybe they should hold it in Memphis and invite LeMoyne-Owen, D3's first national champion, for old times' sake?...
David, I was thinking about how far Lincoln would have to travel with respect to school. All of Lincoln's traveling seems to be up the Atlantic seaboard, and relatively close to school.
They are about 11 hours away from Nashville, but another trip to Holly Springs would make it 14 hours back to Lincoln. Now if you're are flying, either Memphis or Nashville would work. :)
Pat Coleman is right about UDallas as being a good 4th.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on February 06, 2006, 09:11:25 AM
Post by: wilburt on February 06, 2006, 09:11:25 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2006, 08:59:38 AM
Surprised Lincoln and Fisk and Rust don't play each other, esp. with Lincoln's propensity to travel and the latter's lack of D-III opponents.
Pat they (Fisk and Lincoln) played each other about 3 years ago or so in a tourney near Philly. Fisk won that game, but would have difficulty repeating that feat today.
But Fisk did play several other HBCUs this year (Tennessee State, Wilberforce, Oakwood, Knoxville and Rust).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 06, 2006, 04:43:48 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 06, 2006, 04:43:48 PM
Well Pat there is no reason to get huffy ("I am fully aware of that. However, neither of them plays Lincoln, which was my point.") You usually are quite clear and precise about what you mean. Less so this time, I think.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 06, 2006, 10:23:39 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 06, 2006, 10:23:39 PM
Lincoln defeats Richard Stockton 91-69 tonight. This was the second win of the season over the Richard Stockton Ospreys for the Lions who are 20-4 on the season now.
Thank you Gordon Mann for broadcasting tonights game from Manuel Rivero Hall and I look forward to you doing many future games at Lincoln.
Thank you Gordon Mann for broadcasting tonights game from Manuel Rivero Hall and I look forward to you doing many future games at Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 06, 2006, 10:46:08 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 06, 2006, 10:46:08 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 06, 2006, 04:43:48 PM
Well Pat there is no reason to get huffy ("I am fully aware of that. However, neither of them plays Lincoln, which was my point.") You usually are quite clear and precise about what you mean. Less so this time, I think.
Perhaps. But you would have to think I already know something like that. How do you think the schedules get onto the site, by magic?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on February 07, 2006, 12:08:16 AM
Post by: gordonmann on February 07, 2006, 12:08:16 AM
NJLincoln:
I 'm glad I finally had a chance to get out there. Rob Knox and his crew did a nice job hosting.
I 'm glad I finally had a chance to get out there. Rob Knox and his crew did a nice job hosting.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 08:51:06 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 08:51:06 AM
It looks like #21 Lincoln has their Pool B bid all locked up at this point. We'll just have to see where they come out in the regional rankings tomorrow. I suspect with their schedule being done, they may even be able to sneak into the national top 20 before too long.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 07, 2006, 10:29:32 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 07, 2006, 10:29:32 AM
Gordon Mann:
On behalf of some of my classmates, that are scattered across the country, we enjoyed hearing the broadcast, and we thank you.
Hoops Fan:
I hope you're right about Lincoln cracking the top 20. The Richard Stockton game was important, because it was an "in region" game. With other top 20 teams in the home stretch of their conference tournaments, their may be some shake-ups that could help Lincoln jump into the top 20.
Penn State Abington, should not pose any problems for Lincoln, and with the DIII Independent East tournament being played at home, it should help the Lions.
On behalf of some of my classmates, that are scattered across the country, we enjoyed hearing the broadcast, and we thank you.
Hoops Fan:
I hope you're right about Lincoln cracking the top 20. The Richard Stockton game was important, because it was an "in region" game. With other top 20 teams in the home stretch of their conference tournaments, their may be some shake-ups that could help Lincoln jump into the top 20.
Penn State Abington, should not pose any problems for Lincoln, and with the DIII Independent East tournament being played at home, it should help the Lions.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 10:51:43 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 10:51:43 AM
Depending on how the CAC tournament works out, I could see Lincoln being ranked #1 in the region by the end of the year. York has to get by Catholic, but beyond York, Lincoln seems to be the next best team in the region. I would love to have seen a head-to-head of those two this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 07, 2006, 02:18:45 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 07, 2006, 02:18:45 PM
Hoops Fan:
As you know the closet Lincoln and York got this year, was at the Coaches vs. Cancer tournament at York this year. I'm sure the two teams were taking copious notes regarding each teams strenghts and weakness anticipating a potential meeting down the road.
It was great to see that 1,545 showed up at Manuel Rivero Hall to watch the Lions play Richard Stockton. Since the Lions played so few home games this year, it was gratifying to see the Lincoln community come out to support the team.
As you know the closet Lincoln and York got this year, was at the Coaches vs. Cancer tournament at York this year. I'm sure the two teams were taking copious notes regarding each teams strenghts and weakness anticipating a potential meeting down the road.
It was great to see that 1,545 showed up at Manuel Rivero Hall to watch the Lions play Richard Stockton. Since the Lions played so few home games this year, it was gratifying to see the Lincoln community come out to support the team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 02:31:47 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 02:31:47 PM
If the NCAA is indeed going to naively do an E-NE/MA-A split again this year, I could see York and Lincoln being the 1 and 2 seeds. It would set up quite a match-up if they made it that far. The East Coast may be easier to get out of, but its not a cakewalk.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TheFence on February 07, 2006, 03:37:37 PM
Post by: TheFence on February 07, 2006, 03:37:37 PM
No sure waht definition of a Cake walk is?
I think east is pretty weak this year.
Currently only 5 teams in the topm 25 are from teh east coast. With the best team at #8 in York and I think that's based a lot on last years Final Fout appearance.
The others include
Amherst
WPI
St. John Fisher
Lincoln
I think that's it.
I don't think any of those teams can challenge for the title. Also take anyone of those teams and drop them in the "Midwest" or "West" bracket and how do you think they do? To flip it around take a elite team from the "West" or "Midwest" bracket (Ill Wes I think is fair comparison) and drop them in an "E - NE" or "MA - A" bracket and how do they fair?
If your saying the "E-NE" and "MA-A" bracket will be competitive amoungst themselves, I coouldn't agree more. The usual pathetic teams that get in are much closer to the power teams in those brackets than they ever have been.
I think east is pretty weak this year.
Currently only 5 teams in the topm 25 are from teh east coast. With the best team at #8 in York and I think that's based a lot on last years Final Fout appearance.
The others include
Amherst
WPI
St. John Fisher
Lincoln
I think that's it.
I don't think any of those teams can challenge for the title. Also take anyone of those teams and drop them in the "Midwest" or "West" bracket and how do you think they do? To flip it around take a elite team from the "West" or "Midwest" bracket (Ill Wes I think is fair comparison) and drop them in an "E - NE" or "MA - A" bracket and how do they fair?
If your saying the "E-NE" and "MA-A" bracket will be competitive amoungst themselves, I coouldn't agree more. The usual pathetic teams that get in are much closer to the power teams in those brackets than they ever have been.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 03:40:38 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 07, 2006, 03:40:38 PM
I'm just saying as much as York and Lincoln appear to be the two best teams, there are a lot of games to be played and even they can be knocked off somewhere along the line.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 07, 2006, 03:47:12 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 07, 2006, 03:47:12 PM
OK Pat, I will in the future pay more attention to who is asking a question. I temporarily forgot that some people know everything. And it is a good thing, too, since you run a good operation.
Title: QOWI through Monday, Feb. 6
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2006, 04:00:52 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 07, 2006, 04:00:52 PM
1-10
Amherst 11.632
Lawrence 11.529
Worcester Polytech 11.526
Augustana 11.444
St. John Fisher 11.250
Mississippi College 11.167
Occidental 11.100
Cortland State 11.053
Carnegie Mellon 11.000
York (Pa.) 10.947
11-20
Trinity (Texas) 10.929
Tufts 10.842
Fisk 10.818
Wooster 10.706
Lincoln 10.688
Hope 10.615
Illinois Wesleyan 10.600
Baldwin-Wallace 10.526
Wittenberg 10.500
Baruch 10.474
21-30
Transylvania 10.450
Howard Payne 10.389
Gordon 10.333
UW-La Crosse 10.333
UW-Stout 10.294
William Paterson 10.263
Virginia Wesleyan 10.238
Bates 10.167
Carroll 10.111
Catholic 10.059
31-40
New York University 10.053
Williams 10.050
Trinity (Conn.) 10.000
North Central 9.933
Puget Sound 9.923
Albion 9.900
Washington U. 9.857
Widener 9.789
Alvernia 9.789
Carleton 9.778
41-50
Johns Hopkins 9.765
Wartburg 9.722
Lakeland 9.722
Rochester 9.688
St. Thomas 9.650
New Jersey 9.647
Endicott 9.647
Calvin 9.625
UW-Whitewater 9.625
Willamette 9.600
51-60
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.588
Randolph-Macon 9.579
Southwestern 9.563
Messiah 9.556
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.556
Hanover 9.500
UW-Oshkosh 9.500
Richard Stockton 9.474
Ursinus 9.474
Whitworth 9.444
61-70
Lake Erie 9.438
Brockport State 9.438
Salem State 9.421
Coe 9.400
Keene State 9.389
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.389
Utica 9.389
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333
Albright 9.294
Plymouth State 9.286
71-80
MIT 9.278
Christopher Newport 9.250
UW-Stevens Point 9.222
Rhode Island College 9.200
Hamilton 9.188
Elmhurst 9.176
Mount St. Mary 9.167
McMurry 9.167
Westfield State 9.158
Mary Washington 9.154
81-90
Ohio Northern 9.125
Averett 9.067
Norwich 9.059
Muskingum 9.056
New Jersey City 9.053
Brandeis 9.050
Franklin 9.000
Rutgers-Newark 9.000
Baptist Bible 9.000
Hardin-Simmons 9.000
91-100
Elizabethtown 9.000
Wilmington 8.952
Wheaton (Mass.) 8.947
Emmanuel 8.944
Milwaukee Engineering 8.944
Villa Julie 8.938
Oswego State 8.889
Mass-Boston 8.889
Elms 8.882
King's 8.842
Amherst 11.632
Lawrence 11.529
Worcester Polytech 11.526
Augustana 11.444
St. John Fisher 11.250
Mississippi College 11.167
Occidental 11.100
Cortland State 11.053
Carnegie Mellon 11.000
York (Pa.) 10.947
11-20
Trinity (Texas) 10.929
Tufts 10.842
Fisk 10.818
Wooster 10.706
Lincoln 10.688
Hope 10.615
Illinois Wesleyan 10.600
Baldwin-Wallace 10.526
Wittenberg 10.500
Baruch 10.474
21-30
Transylvania 10.450
Howard Payne 10.389
Gordon 10.333
UW-La Crosse 10.333
UW-Stout 10.294
William Paterson 10.263
Virginia Wesleyan 10.238
Bates 10.167
Carroll 10.111
Catholic 10.059
31-40
New York University 10.053
Williams 10.050
Trinity (Conn.) 10.000
North Central 9.933
Puget Sound 9.923
Albion 9.900
Washington U. 9.857
Widener 9.789
Alvernia 9.789
Carleton 9.778
41-50
Johns Hopkins 9.765
Wartburg 9.722
Lakeland 9.722
Rochester 9.688
St. Thomas 9.650
New Jersey 9.647
Endicott 9.647
Calvin 9.625
UW-Whitewater 9.625
Willamette 9.600
51-60
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.588
Randolph-Macon 9.579
Southwestern 9.563
Messiah 9.556
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.556
Hanover 9.500
UW-Oshkosh 9.500
Richard Stockton 9.474
Ursinus 9.474
Whitworth 9.444
61-70
Lake Erie 9.438
Brockport State 9.438
Salem State 9.421
Coe 9.400
Keene State 9.389
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.389
Utica 9.389
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333
Albright 9.294
Plymouth State 9.286
71-80
MIT 9.278
Christopher Newport 9.250
UW-Stevens Point 9.222
Rhode Island College 9.200
Hamilton 9.188
Elmhurst 9.176
Mount St. Mary 9.167
McMurry 9.167
Westfield State 9.158
Mary Washington 9.154
81-90
Ohio Northern 9.125
Averett 9.067
Norwich 9.059
Muskingum 9.056
New Jersey City 9.053
Brandeis 9.050
Franklin 9.000
Rutgers-Newark 9.000
Baptist Bible 9.000
Hardin-Simmons 9.000
91-100
Elizabethtown 9.000
Wilmington 8.952
Wheaton (Mass.) 8.947
Emmanuel 8.944
Milwaukee Engineering 8.944
Villa Julie 8.938
Oswego State 8.889
Mass-Boston 8.889
Elms 8.882
King's 8.842
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2006, 04:05:24 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2006, 04:05:24 PM
Regional rankings:
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=125
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=125
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 04:10:31 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 08, 2006, 04:10:31 PM
Lincoln #4 Mid-Atlantic (robbed if you ask me)
Fisk #4 South
Maryville #8 South
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2006, 05:45:35 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2006, 05:45:35 PM
Re: Lincoln...
York? Okay
Widener? Tough games remain against Albright, E'town and Messiah.
Ursinus? Still have another game vs. Hopkins.
If those teams win out, then the committee probably exercised good judgment. Otherwise, Lincoln should jump with the losses. Lincoln has no more in-region games remaining.
York? Okay
Widener? Tough games remain against Albright, E'town and Messiah.
Ursinus? Still have another game vs. Hopkins.
If those teams win out, then the committee probably exercised good judgment. Otherwise, Lincoln should jump with the losses. Lincoln has no more in-region games remaining.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2006, 06:27:43 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2006, 06:27:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 08, 2006, 04:10:31 PM
Lincoln #4 Mid-Atlantic (robbed if you ask me)
Fisk #4 South
Maryville #8 South
IMHO,
#4Bethany
#5 and Neb Wes is left home.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2006, 06:29:11 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 08, 2006, 06:29:11 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan is not going to be .500 overall at the end of the year. They will not be selected.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dayv4life on February 08, 2006, 06:52:16 PM
Post by: dayv4life on February 08, 2006, 06:52:16 PM
now i havent had the chance to see all the teams outwest, but i was at the final four last year and i think that you are really selling the east coast hoops scene short.
granted that the great lakes region is amazing, but look at last year when rochester took down calvin? these squads arent invincible.
and as for York at the FF, granted i am a spartan homer, but no one in DIII could of played with Stevens-Point when they played their A game, and it was the green and white's first trip there.
I see the point made about the great lakes and the mid-west teams being good and i agree, but just because you dont have to go through murderers row to get to the FF does not mean you can not always play with good teams.
I also agree I would have loved to see lincoln play York, i was really disapointed, but just to show how anything can happen, an LVC team that york obliterated one night, came back and snuck up on Lincoln the next day. Now I have no doubt that York and Lincoln would be a game to the wire, but anything can happen.
Give the east coast a little love.....PLEEEEEASE? :-*
granted that the great lakes region is amazing, but look at last year when rochester took down calvin? these squads arent invincible.
and as for York at the FF, granted i am a spartan homer, but no one in DIII could of played with Stevens-Point when they played their A game, and it was the green and white's first trip there.
I see the point made about the great lakes and the mid-west teams being good and i agree, but just because you dont have to go through murderers row to get to the FF does not mean you can not always play with good teams.
I also agree I would have loved to see lincoln play York, i was really disapointed, but just to show how anything can happen, an LVC team that york obliterated one night, came back and snuck up on Lincoln the next day. Now I have no doubt that York and Lincoln would be a game to the wire, but anything can happen.
Give the east coast a little love.....PLEEEEEASE? :-*
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 08, 2006, 10:50:43 PM
Post by: joe smith on February 08, 2006, 10:50:43 PM
Bethany wins again tonight beating W&J 86-75 in a game where the score was actually closer then the game was. Bethany led by 15-20 throughout. They improve to 19-4 and 16-4 in the region. This win was there 14th in a row. They have 2 more regular season games and will be the #1 seed in the PrAC conference tourny. With a first round bye they'll have 2 more games in the tourny. They should go 4-0 in those games and finish 23-4 and 20-4 in the region. Not bad for a team that started 5-4 and was left for dead. Hard to keep a team with 23 wins and 20 wins in their region out of the tournament no matter how bad their QOWI is. Do you think they are a lock even if they might get upset once?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fritzdis on February 08, 2006, 11:25:51 PM
Post by: fritzdis on February 08, 2006, 11:25:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 08, 2006, 05:45:35 PMAlso, the NCAA appears to have Ursinus' regional record incorrect. They have regional losses to NYU (easily within 200 miles), McDaniel, York, and Washinton College. All those games were played before Feb. 5, but the NCAA ranking lists them with only 3 regional losses.
Re: Lincoln...
Ursinus? Still have another game vs. Hopkins.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on February 08, 2006, 11:58:40 PM
Post by: hugenerd on February 08, 2006, 11:58:40 PM
Quote from: joe smith on February 08, 2006, 10:50:43 PM
They should go 4-0 in those games and finish 23-4 and 20-4 in the region. Not bad for a team that started 5-4 and was left for dead.
They weren't left for dead, they just played much better teams out of conference then they could ever play in conference. If they played teams like Carnegie Mellon, Lake Erie and Case Western more often they would have many more losses than they do currently. They also lost to a team that is currently 4-18. The PraC cumulative out of conference record is 28-61, subtract from that Bethany's 9-4 mark and you see that Bethany is playing a group of teams that are a combined 19-57 versus out of conference opponents. Of those 19 wins, only 3 are against teams with winning records (Grove City and Waynesburg each beat Pitt-Greensburg for 2 of these wins, the other is Waynesburg's win over Gallaudet). I wouldn't say that Bethany is a great team, but they do have a winning percentage that deserves some consideration, although as their QOWI indicates (which is not in the top 100 and probably about 8-9), they have beaten hardly anyone with a great record.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 12:03:25 AM
Post by: David Collinge on February 09, 2006, 12:03:25 AM
FWIW, when Bethany lost to Case a lot of us "left them for dead," more or less. Losing to Case of years gone by has rarely been an indication of good things to come. Little did we know that Case would turn out to be a good team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fritzdis on February 09, 2006, 12:10:10 AM
Post by: fritzdis on February 09, 2006, 12:10:10 AM
Quote from: joe smith on February 08, 2006, 10:50:43 PMActually, I believe Bethany's QOWI jumped from 8.74 to 9.25 in the past 2 days. They got a 13 point victory over W&J, while Pitt-Greensburg and Waynesburg each moved into a higher winning % bracket, netting Bethany 6 additional QOWI points.
Hard to keep a team with 23 wins and 20 wins in their region out of the tournament no matter how bad their QOWI is.
Of course, that 9.25 is tenuous because now both of those teams, along with W&J and Muskingum, are on the verge of dropping into a lower winning % bracket, while only Case Western and Westminster have much chance of moving up into a higher winning % bracket by the end of the season, and Case Western is probably unlikely.
If none of those teams move either up or down into a different winning % bracket, then I believe Bethany would end up with a QOWI of 9.42 if they win out and face the best possible (i.e., highest winning %) teams in their tournament. That would likely be enough for a 20-4 team to get a Pool B slot.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on February 09, 2006, 12:20:59 AM
Post by: hugenerd on February 09, 2006, 12:20:59 AM
It goes to show you how strong the UAA is when people are saying a team that is 10-10 and 2-7 in the conference is a good team. I agree that Case is a good team, but in conference they are the same as they have been for years and I have seen them play for the past 5 years. If you had left Bethany for dead at the beginning of the season, what has changed? They haven't beaten anyone special, so if they were dead then they should be now too. On a national scale, they are slightly better than average team and the only team that is even close to average in that conference. There was little doubt that they would win that conference, maybe some people thought the Westminster's "system" offense could rack up some wins, but it has been obvious all season that Bethany is the best team in the PrAC. They will most likely get an NCAA bid, unless some unforeseen losses occur in the next couple of weeks, and they will be ill prepared to play at a high level because they have played 14 straight cupcakes (it will be 18 by the time the tourney starts). They will have their 20 plus win season and they have two exceptional players (the Drahos brothers), but in my opinion they will have very little else to show for it and do nothing in the tourney again, like last year when they lost by 28 in the first round after posting an eerily similar record of 24-3 in the regular season (they are on pace for 23-4 this season).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on February 09, 2006, 12:24:16 AM
Post by: hugenerd on February 09, 2006, 12:24:16 AM
Quote from: fritzdis on February 09, 2006, 12:10:10 AMQuote from: joe smith on February 08, 2006, 10:50:43 PMActually, I believe Bethany's QOWI jumped from 8.74 to 9.25 in the past 2 days. They got a 13 point victory over W&J, while Pitt-Greensburg and Waynesburg each moved into a higher winning % bracket, netting Bethany 6 additional QOWI points.
Hard to keep a team with 23 wins and 20 wins in their region out of the tournament no matter how bad their QOWI is.
Of course, that 9.25 is tenuous because now both of those teams, along with W&J and Muskingum, are on the verge of dropping into a lower winning % bracket, while only Case Western and Westminster have much chance of moving up into a higher winning % bracket by the end of the season, and Case Western is probably unlikely.
If none of those teams move either up or down into a different winning % bracket, then I believe Bethany would end up with a QOWI of 9.42 if they win out and face the best possible (i.e., highest winning %) teams in their tournament. That would likely be enough for a 20-4 team to get a Pool B slot.
I am not saying that Bethany does not deserve an NCAA bid, I am just saying that once they get there, they shouldnt hope for too much. Also, I realize that some of the teams in the PrAC have winning records in region, but that doesnt mean that those are quality wins (I understand by QOWI standards they may be 10, 11, 12, or 13 point wins). When two bad teams play eachother, one has to win, and if this process is repeated over and over many times, one of the bad teams is ineveitably going to have a winning record in region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 09, 2006, 09:21:44 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 09, 2006, 09:21:44 AM
Lincoln at #4 in the Regionals? ??? . How could two teams (Widener & Ursinus) not ranked, and not receiving votes for the national polls be ranked higher than the Lions? Additionally, If Fritzdis is correct regarding Ursinus' record, will it be corrected?
Ralph, I agree that if Widener comes out unscathed in the games with Albright, Etown, and Messiah, I will have a new found respect for them.
It appears the Regional voters (in the case of the Mid-Atlantic) went soley on records and not necessarily SOS. I agree with you Hoops Fan, I think Lincoln "got robbed", but that's why they play the games to have issues settled on the court.
Ralph, I agree that if Widener comes out unscathed in the games with Albright, Etown, and Messiah, I will have a new found respect for them.
It appears the Regional voters (in the case of the Mid-Atlantic) went soley on records and not necessarily SOS. I agree with you Hoops Fan, I think Lincoln "got robbed", but that's why they play the games to have issues settled on the court.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 09:24:52 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 09:24:52 AM
I think Bethany is getting in more because no one else seems to want it.
Chapman is still alive. Despite that unconscionable loss to the Banana Slugs, their other losses were all to respectable teams.
St Joe's of Maine has Husson and Bowdoin coming up, if they can win those games, they might have a shot still as well.
Baptist Bible and Villa Julie are both over .750 in-region and have top 100 QOWI, so they are possibilities.
Chapman is still alive. Despite that unconscionable loss to the Banana Slugs, their other losses were all to respectable teams.
St Joe's of Maine has Husson and Bowdoin coming up, if they can win those games, they might have a shot still as well.
Baptist Bible and Villa Julie are both over .750 in-region and have top 100 QOWI, so they are possibilities.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 09, 2006, 09:47:38 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 09, 2006, 09:47:38 AM
I just saw that Widener beat Albright by 13 at home. One down and two to go for Widener.
We should change yesterday from Wednesday to "Wheaton" ;D as both schools (Ill. & Mass) beat ranked teams.
We should change yesterday from Wednesday to "Wheaton" ;D as both schools (Ill. & Mass) beat ranked teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 10:04:12 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 10:04:12 AM
I think it may be between Baptist Bible and Bethany at this point. BB has a better QOWI and an identical in-region winning percentage. They have two more in-region games. Does the NEAC have a tournament and do the provisionals get to compete?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 09, 2006, 11:06:37 AM
Post by: joe smith on February 09, 2006, 11:06:37 AM
I agree that Bethany since going 5-4 has pretty much played a cupcake schedule. 3 out of those 4 losses I believe were less then 3 points or more so they can compete with the CMU's of the nation. I disagree with the notion that they're an above average team. The one bad loss came to Marietta where Matt D. didn't play the whole 2nd half. They are humiliating teams within the conference by an average of 20 points a game. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I think this team will make a little more noise in this postseason then they did last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 12:05:04 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2006, 12:05:04 PM
They belong; I'm just not sure if it will be a pool B bid. A twenty win in-region record would put them up for a pool C bid too, if they get left out of the B party.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 09:53:58 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 09:53:58 AM
Lincoln is done with d3 play until the Indy Tournament.
Fisk is at Huntingdon and LaGrange this weekend.
Maryville has LaGrange and Huntingdon on the road as well, in opposite order.
Bethany is off this weekend.
Baptist Bible has Chestnut Hill on Saturday, this should be a ten point win and a QOWI boost.
Villa Julie goes to Bard for a 9 point potential win
St. Joe's (ME) is still alive and has a home game against Husson on Sunday. They win that one and they are right back in the hunt.
Chapman is done with their d3 schedule unless a Western Indy tournament pops up.
I guess we still have to figure Rust in, but they don't play again until next week.
Pat says NebWes won't get picked because their overall record is under .500, so I'm officially taking them off the list.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 11:02:27 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 11:02:27 AM
I guess Aurora and Clarke are technically still alive as well. Aurora's got Concordia (Il) this weekend and Clarke is at Eureka.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 10, 2006, 11:32:18 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 10, 2006, 11:32:18 AM
Hoops Fan:
So would you say Lincoln is in, or would the Lions have to win the DIII Northeast Independent Tournament?
So would you say Lincoln is in, or would the Lions have to win the DIII Northeast Independent Tournament?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2006, 12:51:44 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2006, 12:51:44 PM
I think that Lincoln is in.
IMHO, they are playing to see if they can host a regional.
Good job on the summary, Hoops Fan! :)
IMHO, they are playing to see if they can host a regional.
Good job on the summary, Hoops Fan! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 12:55:26 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 12:55:26 PM
I think Lincoln gets to host if they win out. They certainly have earned it this year. It's a shame Wansley got hurt and RM-C's rankings have gone down. The team Lincoln beat is certainly better than the team as it stands now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on February 10, 2006, 02:10:47 PM
Post by: wilburt on February 10, 2006, 02:10:47 PM
Lincoln is in definitely as well. Fisk and Maryville are fighting for a spot (2-3-4). Some think the Selection committee will not select 2 Pool B bids from a 5 team conference, but I say why not. Fisk is #4 in the South Region and Maryville is #8, so there's an arguable basis for it...
Don't know who else is in competition for the fourth Pool B Bid.
Don't know who else is in competition for the fourth Pool B Bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 02:18:05 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 02:18:05 PM
They have no qualms about the GSAC. Fisk and Maryville will get in, unless they kill themselves down the stretch. Even then, they still might have a chance.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 03:08:02 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 03:08:02 PM
Updated QOWI through Thursday, Feb. 9. Now includes regional records:
1-10
Amherst 11.800 19-1
Lawrence 11.556 18-0
Worcester Polytech 11.300 18-2
Occidental 11.273 10-1
Augustana 11.211 18-1
Fisk 11.182 9-2
Carnegie Mellon 11.000 13-2
St. John Fisher 11.000 16-1
Cortland State 10.947 18-1
Trinity (Texas) 10.929 12-2
11-20
York (Pa.) 10.900 18-2
Mississippi College 10.789 18-1
Wittenberg 10.765 15-2
Tufts 10.750 17-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.688 13-3
Transylvania 10.619 18-3
Bates 10.611 15-3
Wooster 10.556 17-1
Gordon 10.526 17-2
Virginia Wesleyan 10.500 19-3
21-30
Hope 10.500 12-2
Lincoln 10.438 12-4
Baldwin-Wallace 10.400 18-2
Baruch 10.350 19-1
UW-La Crosse 10.227 17-5
Carleton 10.222 14-4
St. Thomas 10.190 16-5
Carroll 10.111 16-2
Calvin 10.111 8-1
William Paterson 10.100 15-5
31-40
UW-Stout 10.056 15-3
New York University 10.053 16-3
Williams 10.050 15-5
Howard Payne 10.000 15-4
Trinity (Conn.) 10.000 13-3
Randolph-Macon 9.950 15-5
Keene State 9.947 13-6
Johns Hopkins 9.944 15-3
Puget Sound 9.923 12-1
Washington U. 9.857 9-5
41-50
Wartburg 9.842 16-3
North Central 9.813 12-4
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.778 13-5
Ursinus 9.750 16-4
Albion 9.727 9-2
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.722 14-4
UW-Whitewater 9.706 12-5
Lake Erie 9.706 14-3
Widener 9.700 17-3
Catholic 9.667 13-5
51-60
Plymouth State 9.636 14-8
Endicott 9.611 12-6
New Jersey 9.611 13-5
Alvernia 9.600 17-3
Willamette 9.600 13-2
Hanover 9.588 11-6
Brockport State 9.563 11-5
Westfield State 9.550 13-7
Rhode Island College 9.524 14-7
Lakeland 9.474 15-4
61-70
Whitworth 9.444 13-5
Rochester 9.438 11-5
Coe 9.438 12-4
Southwestern 9.438 12-4
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.400 13-7
Mass-Boston 9.368 12-7
Richard Stockton 9.350 13-7
Christopher Newport 9.333 7-2
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333 5-1
Messiah 9.316 14-5
71-80
MIT 9.316 12-7
Hamilton 9.313 13-3
UW-Oshkosh 9.278 11-7
Wilmington 9.273 16-6
Bethany 9.250 16-4
Elmhurst 9.167 12-6
Norwich 9.158 15-4
Muskingum 9.158 13-6
Oswego State 9.158 14-5
Franklin 9.158 14-5
81-90
Gustavus Adolphus 9.158 13-6
Salem State 9.150 14-6
Averett 9.125 12-4
McMurry 9.105 14-5
Emmanuel 9.100 15-5
Albright 9.056 11-7
Plattsburgh State 9.056 11-7
UW-Stevens Point 9.053 12-7
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.050 14-6
New Jersey City 9.000 13-7
91-100
Milwaukee Engineering 9.000 14-5
Ohio Northern 9.000 12-5
Rutgers-Newark 8.952 15-6
Utica 8.947 14-5
Mount St. Mary 8.947 14-5
Elms 8.944 14-4
Villa Julie 8.882 13-4
Baptist Bible 8.867 12-3
Brandeis 8.850 12-8
St. John's 8.833 12-6
1-10
Amherst 11.800 19-1
Lawrence 11.556 18-0
Worcester Polytech 11.300 18-2
Occidental 11.273 10-1
Augustana 11.211 18-1
Fisk 11.182 9-2
Carnegie Mellon 11.000 13-2
St. John Fisher 11.000 16-1
Cortland State 10.947 18-1
Trinity (Texas) 10.929 12-2
11-20
York (Pa.) 10.900 18-2
Mississippi College 10.789 18-1
Wittenberg 10.765 15-2
Tufts 10.750 17-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.688 13-3
Transylvania 10.619 18-3
Bates 10.611 15-3
Wooster 10.556 17-1
Gordon 10.526 17-2
Virginia Wesleyan 10.500 19-3
21-30
Hope 10.500 12-2
Lincoln 10.438 12-4
Baldwin-Wallace 10.400 18-2
Baruch 10.350 19-1
UW-La Crosse 10.227 17-5
Carleton 10.222 14-4
St. Thomas 10.190 16-5
Carroll 10.111 16-2
Calvin 10.111 8-1
William Paterson 10.100 15-5
31-40
UW-Stout 10.056 15-3
New York University 10.053 16-3
Williams 10.050 15-5
Howard Payne 10.000 15-4
Trinity (Conn.) 10.000 13-3
Randolph-Macon 9.950 15-5
Keene State 9.947 13-6
Johns Hopkins 9.944 15-3
Puget Sound 9.923 12-1
Washington U. 9.857 9-5
41-50
Wartburg 9.842 16-3
North Central 9.813 12-4
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.778 13-5
Ursinus 9.750 16-4
Albion 9.727 9-2
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.722 14-4
UW-Whitewater 9.706 12-5
Lake Erie 9.706 14-3
Widener 9.700 17-3
Catholic 9.667 13-5
51-60
Plymouth State 9.636 14-8
Endicott 9.611 12-6
New Jersey 9.611 13-5
Alvernia 9.600 17-3
Willamette 9.600 13-2
Hanover 9.588 11-6
Brockport State 9.563 11-5
Westfield State 9.550 13-7
Rhode Island College 9.524 14-7
Lakeland 9.474 15-4
61-70
Whitworth 9.444 13-5
Rochester 9.438 11-5
Coe 9.438 12-4
Southwestern 9.438 12-4
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.400 13-7
Mass-Boston 9.368 12-7
Richard Stockton 9.350 13-7
Christopher Newport 9.333 7-2
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333 5-1
Messiah 9.316 14-5
71-80
MIT 9.316 12-7
Hamilton 9.313 13-3
UW-Oshkosh 9.278 11-7
Wilmington 9.273 16-6
Bethany 9.250 16-4
Elmhurst 9.167 12-6
Norwich 9.158 15-4
Muskingum 9.158 13-6
Oswego State 9.158 14-5
Franklin 9.158 14-5
81-90
Gustavus Adolphus 9.158 13-6
Salem State 9.150 14-6
Averett 9.125 12-4
McMurry 9.105 14-5
Emmanuel 9.100 15-5
Albright 9.056 11-7
Plattsburgh State 9.056 11-7
UW-Stevens Point 9.053 12-7
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.050 14-6
New Jersey City 9.000 13-7
91-100
Milwaukee Engineering 9.000 14-5
Ohio Northern 9.000 12-5
Rutgers-Newark 8.952 15-6
Utica 8.947 14-5
Mount St. Mary 8.947 14-5
Elms 8.944 14-4
Villa Julie 8.882 13-4
Baptist Bible 8.867 12-3
Brandeis 8.850 12-8
St. John's 8.833 12-6
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:19:24 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:19:24 PM
Twenty of the top 100 are now from the NE region. The NESCAC has three in the top 17, five in the top 35. I can say there is definately a huge divide between the good teams and the bad teams in the NE.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:19:53 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:19:53 PM
Sorry, I totally meant that for the Pool C room; I guess I clicked on the wrong link.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:22:58 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 03:22:58 PM
B's on the list:
6. Fisk 11.182 9-2
22. Lincoln 10.438 12-4
43. Maryville (Tenn.) 9.778 13-5
69. Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333 5-1
75. Bethany 9.250 16-4
97. Villa Julie 8.882 13-4
98. Baptist Bible 8.867 12-3
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 04:34:45 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 04:34:45 PM
For those keeping track, Chapman is at 8.417 and 8-4 in-region. That's the 132nd-best QOWI. Piedmont is at 131 with 8.429 (7-7); Aurora is 134th at 8.375 (10-6).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:36:20 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:36:20 PM
Do you have St. Joe's QOWI number too, Pat?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 04:37:58 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 04:37:58 PM
SJCME is 8.000 and 8-4, at 173rd. Rust is ahead of them among Bs at 8.154, 9-5, 161st.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:41:15 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:41:15 PM
So they're both probably really long shots. although Joe's number should improve quite a bit if they can win out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 10, 2006, 04:54:27 PM
Post by: joe smith on February 10, 2006, 04:54:27 PM
Don't know who else is in competition for the fourth Pool B Bid.
I believe Bethany of course will be a lock for the fourth bid. Though the conference is a bit down this year from past years, they've played a pretty good nonconference schedule. CMU, Lake Erie, Muskingum, Pitt-Greensburg, Keystone, and Wheeling Jesuit(d2) are all top teams in each respective conferences. Bethany went 4-2 against those teams including a win against d2 Jesuit who is ranked 5th in their region for division 2. Their QOWI may no show it but this team has played and beaten some great competition this year. I think their conference hurts them more then some imagine. But like I said before they've beaten those teams by an average of 20 a game.
I believe Bethany of course will be a lock for the fourth bid. Though the conference is a bit down this year from past years, they've played a pretty good nonconference schedule. CMU, Lake Erie, Muskingum, Pitt-Greensburg, Keystone, and Wheeling Jesuit(d2) are all top teams in each respective conferences. Bethany went 4-2 against those teams including a win against d2 Jesuit who is ranked 5th in their region for division 2. Their QOWI may no show it but this team has played and beaten some great competition this year. I think their conference hurts them more then some imagine. But like I said before they've beaten those teams by an average of 20 a game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:59:52 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 10, 2006, 04:59:52 PM
We've got plenty of time to figure it all out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2006, 09:52:07 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 10, 2006, 09:52:07 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2006, 04:37:58 PM
SJCME is 8.000 and 8-4, at 173rd. Rust is ahead of them among Bs at 8.154, 9-5, 161st.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 10, 2006, 04:41:15 PM
So they're both probably really long shots. although Joe's number should improve quite a bit if they can win out.
Hoops Fan, I calculate that SJCME has 96 QOWI points. If they run the table, that adds [12 (Husson) +13 (Bowdoin) + 8 (Newbury) =] 33 QOWI points.
96 + 33 = 129 QOWI points divided by 15 games, and QOWI only rises to 8.600 and they have an 11-4 In-Region Record.
Let's say that they win the Indy post-season tourney by defeating Lincoln and one other team. (I am not sure if those wins will even be considered in-region.) Let's call them a 15-pt and a 13-pt QOWI win.
129 +15 +13 = 157 QOWI points divided by 17 games raises the QOWI to 9.24.
A loss is worth (8 divided by # of games= ) ~ 0.500 QOWI points.
I don't see SJCME as beating Lincoln, but I also don't think that they win five straight either. They are a real Cinderella if they do!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2006, 05:19:31 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2006, 05:19:31 PM
at Huntingdon 72, Fisk 58.
Huntingdon hosts Maryville tomorrow for possible GSAC tri-championships, (Huntingdon, Maryville and Fisk, all at 6-2).
Coach Tony Duckworth's Huntingdon Hawks play very tenacious defense. This should be a great one.
Huntingdon hosts Maryville tomorrow for possible GSAC tri-championships, (Huntingdon, Maryville and Fisk, all at 6-2).
Coach Tony Duckworth's Huntingdon Hawks play very tenacious defense. This should be a great one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2006, 09:43:11 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2006, 09:43:11 PM
LaGrange 110, Fisk 108 (1OT)
Big win for LaGrange, and this really hurts Fisk!
Big win for LaGrange, and this really hurts Fisk!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2006, 10:28:16 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 12, 2006, 10:28:16 PM
Once again, I contend that NO ONE wants one of these slots, except Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2006, 10:47:31 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2006, 10:47:31 PM
Huntingdon (in-region 9-6 .600) 73, Maryville TN (in-region 14-6 .700) 67.
http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Huntingdon&team=m
Huntingdon has won 9 straight, and can clinch a co-championship on Wednesday by defeating Piedmont.
Huntingdon is scheduled to host the 2006 GSAC tourney. The extra 2 wins may help determine a Pool B bid for the winner.
Pool B is wide open again.
My rough calculation is that Maryville's QOWI dropped to 9.500 (not counting any changes in the QOWI of earlier opponents.)
Fisk's road loss to LaGrange was worth 1 QOWI point. The road loss to Huntingdon was worth 5 points. I calculate a QOWI around 9.923, pending any QOWI changes in the records of previous opponents. (Fisk 9-4 in-region, 0.692)
The GSAC tourney now will give a team the chance to pick up some good wins with respect to QOWI!
Please remember, one other criterion is winning percentage, and Bethany has the highest in-region percentage at 16-4 (.800) with 2 games remaining.
Villa Julie is up to 14-4 (.778) with 1 more in-region game left.
Pool B looks wide open again, with only Lincoln (12-4, .750)appearing to be a lock.
http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Huntingdon&team=m
Huntingdon has won 9 straight, and can clinch a co-championship on Wednesday by defeating Piedmont.
Huntingdon is scheduled to host the 2006 GSAC tourney. The extra 2 wins may help determine a Pool B bid for the winner.
Pool B is wide open again.
My rough calculation is that Maryville's QOWI dropped to 9.500 (not counting any changes in the QOWI of earlier opponents.)
Fisk's road loss to LaGrange was worth 1 QOWI point. The road loss to Huntingdon was worth 5 points. I calculate a QOWI around 9.923, pending any QOWI changes in the records of previous opponents. (Fisk 9-4 in-region, 0.692)
The GSAC tourney now will give a team the chance to pick up some good wins with respect to QOWI!
Please remember, one other criterion is winning percentage, and Bethany has the highest in-region percentage at 16-4 (.800) with 2 games remaining.
Villa Julie is up to 14-4 (.778) with 1 more in-region game left.
Pool B looks wide open again, with only Lincoln (12-4, .750)appearing to be a lock.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 10:01:59 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 10:01:59 AM
Madness. Madness.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 12:22:24 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 12:22:24 PM
OK, here is what we're looking at right now:
St Joe's (ME) 8-4, NE Region 7.83. They had a game with Husson over the weekend; I can't find the score. This is a catch-22. If they bear Husson, they lose two points for knocking them down a level. Their max, if everything goes their way is 11-4 with an 8.6 QOWI. If they lost to Husson over the weekend they are out, with a max possible of 8.07 and 10-5.
Keuka 10-4, E Region 7.79. They have two remaining including a home game with Baptist Bible. If they win both, their max is 8.31, 12-4 in region.
Baptist Bible 13-3, MA region 8.81. They have big wins over King's and Wilkes, which look good as well as a very close loss to Lincoln. There is one game remaining, against Keuka, their max is potentially 14-3, 9.29.
Villa Julie 14-4, MA Region 8.67. They have a nice win over Hopkins and a close game with Catholic. They have one game remaining. As far as I can figure, their absolute max is 15-4, 8.79.
Lincoln is 12-4, MA Region 10.56. They are done their schedule, but have two teams poised to drop a level and 3-4 teams that could potentially leap a level. Best case scenario: 12-4 11.06.
Maryville 14-6, S Region 9.6. They are done with their regular schedule, but this is the best number they can hope for. They have a few teams ready to drop down. They could potentially go as low as 14-6 9.2 without much trouble.
Fisk 9-4, S Region 9.85. They have one more with Rust that could bump the number, but they've also got some precarious opponents as well. I'd say max is about 10-4 10.07.
Rust 8-5, S Region 7.92. They have the game with Fisk upcoming, which could help the number. I'd say max is 9-5 8.36.
Huntingdon 9-6, S Region 8.07. They have one game left at Piedmont, but they have a ton of opponents ready to drop. Their max is 10-6, 8.38, but they are more likely to be around 7.88 even with a win in their last game.
Bethany 16-4, GL Region 9.25. They have two games left and a bunch of opponents ready to drop a level. I think the max is 18-4 9.27, but more likely 9.09.
Aurora 11-6, MW Region 8.65. They have two games left, but not too much help. I'd say max is 13-6 8.95. However, I think 8.63 is more likely.
Clarke 11-7, MW Region 8.39. They have two games leeft, one with Aurora. I'd say max is 13-7 8.75.
Chapman 8-4, W Region 8.25. They are done their schedule, but they do stand to lose a few. I think that is there max.
So right now, by the numbers as they stand today I have to go:
Lincoln
Bethany
Fisk
Maryville
Baptist Bible
Villa Julie
Aurora
Clarke
Chapman
Huntingdon
Rust
St Joe's
Keuka
This doesn't take into account the post-season tournaments that they will be participating in. It may come down to the winner of Fisk-Maryville in the GSAC tourney and Baptist Bible-Villa Julie in the NEAC. I would put Lincoln in as a lock, no matter what and Bethany as a lock if they win out.
If that doesn't earn me a few karma points, I don't deserve any.
St Joe's (ME) 8-4, NE Region 7.83. They had a game with Husson over the weekend; I can't find the score. This is a catch-22. If they bear Husson, they lose two points for knocking them down a level. Their max, if everything goes their way is 11-4 with an 8.6 QOWI. If they lost to Husson over the weekend they are out, with a max possible of 8.07 and 10-5.
Keuka 10-4, E Region 7.79. They have two remaining including a home game with Baptist Bible. If they win both, their max is 8.31, 12-4 in region.
Baptist Bible 13-3, MA region 8.81. They have big wins over King's and Wilkes, which look good as well as a very close loss to Lincoln. There is one game remaining, against Keuka, their max is potentially 14-3, 9.29.
Villa Julie 14-4, MA Region 8.67. They have a nice win over Hopkins and a close game with Catholic. They have one game remaining. As far as I can figure, their absolute max is 15-4, 8.79.
Lincoln is 12-4, MA Region 10.56. They are done their schedule, but have two teams poised to drop a level and 3-4 teams that could potentially leap a level. Best case scenario: 12-4 11.06.
Maryville 14-6, S Region 9.6. They are done with their regular schedule, but this is the best number they can hope for. They have a few teams ready to drop down. They could potentially go as low as 14-6 9.2 without much trouble.
Fisk 9-4, S Region 9.85. They have one more with Rust that could bump the number, but they've also got some precarious opponents as well. I'd say max is about 10-4 10.07.
Rust 8-5, S Region 7.92. They have the game with Fisk upcoming, which could help the number. I'd say max is 9-5 8.36.
Huntingdon 9-6, S Region 8.07. They have one game left at Piedmont, but they have a ton of opponents ready to drop. Their max is 10-6, 8.38, but they are more likely to be around 7.88 even with a win in their last game.
Bethany 16-4, GL Region 9.25. They have two games left and a bunch of opponents ready to drop a level. I think the max is 18-4 9.27, but more likely 9.09.
Aurora 11-6, MW Region 8.65. They have two games left, but not too much help. I'd say max is 13-6 8.95. However, I think 8.63 is more likely.
Clarke 11-7, MW Region 8.39. They have two games leeft, one with Aurora. I'd say max is 13-7 8.75.
Chapman 8-4, W Region 8.25. They are done their schedule, but they do stand to lose a few. I think that is there max.
So right now, by the numbers as they stand today I have to go:
Lincoln
Bethany
Fisk
Maryville
Baptist Bible
Villa Julie
Aurora
Clarke
Chapman
Huntingdon
Rust
St Joe's
Keuka
This doesn't take into account the post-season tournaments that they will be participating in. It may come down to the winner of Fisk-Maryville in the GSAC tourney and Baptist Bible-Villa Julie in the NEAC. I would put Lincoln in as a lock, no matter what and Bethany as a lock if they win out.
If that doesn't earn me a few karma points, I don't deserve any.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2006, 12:51:44 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2006, 12:51:44 PM
One of the regional committee members has told me that Baptist Bible and Philadelphia Bible filed to play in the NCCAA Tournament and are ineligible for NCAA selection.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 12:53:38 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2006, 12:53:38 PM
So the Aurora and Clarke winner might have a shot at getting in. All that does is open things up for the rest of the teams. It also has to make Maryville feel better.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 13, 2006, 03:36:40 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 13, 2006, 03:36:40 PM
The Lincoln, Penn State Abington game scheduled for tonight has been postphoned :( . PSU Abington policy is that no school activities are permitted if the school is closed on that day. PSU Abington was closed due to the weekend snowstorm. No make up date was announced.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2006, 04:22:07 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2006, 04:22:07 PM
Updated men's QOWI through Sunday, the ones that will be used in this week's regional rankings:
1-10
Amherst 12.091 21-1
Lawrence 11.444 18-0
Trinity (Texas) 11.188 14-2
Worcester Polytech 11.143 18-3
Mississippi College 10.950 19-1
Carnegie Mellon 10.938 13-3
York (Pa.) 10.905 19-2
Cortland State 10.900 19-1
Occidental 10.833 11-1
St. John Fisher 10.789 18-1
11-20
Wooster 10.737 18-1
Augustana 10.700 18-2
Tufts 10.682 18-4
Wittenberg 10.667 16-2
Lincoln 10.563 12-4
Virginia Wesleyan 10.522 20-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.471 13-4
Transylvania 10.364 18-4
Baldwin-Wallace 10.333 19-2
New York University 10.333 17-4
21-30
Hope 10.267 13-2
Carroll 10.263 17-2
Gordon 10.250 18-2
William Paterson 10.238 15-6
UW-La Crosse 10.227 17-5
Calvin 10.200 9-1
Baruch 10.190 19-2
New Jersey 10.158 14-5
Randolph-Macon 10.143 16-5
Trinity (Conn.) 10.111 14-4
31-40
Rochester 10.056 13-5
Bates 10.050 15-5
Widener 10.048 18-3
St. Thomas 10.045 17-5
Carleton 10.000 15-4
Howard Payne 9.950 15-5
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.947 15-4
Washington U. 9.875 11-5
Ursinus 9.857 17-4
Wartburg 9.842 16-3
41-50
Albion 9.833 10-2
Puget Sound 9.800 13-2
Lakeland 9.800 16-4
Fisk 9.769 9-4
Westfield State 9.762 14-7
UW-Stout 9.737 15-4
Johns Hopkins 9.684 15-4
Alvernia 9.667 18-3
Keene State 9.650 14-6
Christopher Newport 9.636 9-2
51-60
UW-Whitewater 9.611 13-5
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.600 14-6
Whitworth 9.600 15-5
Williams 9.591 15-7
Rhode Island College 9.545 15-7
Plymouth State 9.522 15-8
MIT 9.500 13-7
Southwestern 9.500 13-5
Catholic 9.474 14-5
McMurry 9.450 15-5
61-70
Salem State 9.429 15-6
New Jersey City 9.429 14-7
UW-Oshkosh 9.421 12-7
Elmhurst 9.421 13-6
Albright 9.421 12-7
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.400 13-7
Hanover 9.389 12-6
Hamilton 9.389 15-3
Richard Stockton 9.381 13-8
Willamette 9.353 15-2
71-80
North Central 9.353 12-5
UW-Stevens Point 9.350 13-7
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333 5-1
Lake Erie 9.278 15-3
Franklin 9.250 15-5
Messiah 9.250 14-6
Bethany 9.250 16-4
Rutgers-Newark 9.227 15-7
Emmanuel 9.190 16-5
Elms 9.167 14-4
81-90
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.143 15-6
Mount St. Mary 9.100 15-5
Brockport State 9.056 11-7
Utica 9.048 16-5
Ramapo 9.000 12-7
Milwaukee Engineering 9.000 14-6
Endicott 9.000 12-7
Coast Guard 9.000 14-6
Centre 9.000 12-6
Bowdoin 9.000 12-7
91-100
Averett 9.000 12-5
Scranton 8.952 15-6
Manhattanville 8.952 13-8
Oswego State 8.952 16-5
Loras 8.950 13-7
Elizabethtown 8.950 12-8
Chicago 8.941 10-7
Hardin-Simmons 8.905 14-7
Norwich 8.900 15-5
Mass-Boston 8.900 12-8
1-10
Amherst 12.091 21-1
Lawrence 11.444 18-0
Trinity (Texas) 11.188 14-2
Worcester Polytech 11.143 18-3
Mississippi College 10.950 19-1
Carnegie Mellon 10.938 13-3
York (Pa.) 10.905 19-2
Cortland State 10.900 19-1
Occidental 10.833 11-1
St. John Fisher 10.789 18-1
11-20
Wooster 10.737 18-1
Augustana 10.700 18-2
Tufts 10.682 18-4
Wittenberg 10.667 16-2
Lincoln 10.563 12-4
Virginia Wesleyan 10.522 20-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.471 13-4
Transylvania 10.364 18-4
Baldwin-Wallace 10.333 19-2
New York University 10.333 17-4
21-30
Hope 10.267 13-2
Carroll 10.263 17-2
Gordon 10.250 18-2
William Paterson 10.238 15-6
UW-La Crosse 10.227 17-5
Calvin 10.200 9-1
Baruch 10.190 19-2
New Jersey 10.158 14-5
Randolph-Macon 10.143 16-5
Trinity (Conn.) 10.111 14-4
31-40
Rochester 10.056 13-5
Bates 10.050 15-5
Widener 10.048 18-3
St. Thomas 10.045 17-5
Carleton 10.000 15-4
Howard Payne 9.950 15-5
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.947 15-4
Washington U. 9.875 11-5
Ursinus 9.857 17-4
Wartburg 9.842 16-3
41-50
Albion 9.833 10-2
Puget Sound 9.800 13-2
Lakeland 9.800 16-4
Fisk 9.769 9-4
Westfield State 9.762 14-7
UW-Stout 9.737 15-4
Johns Hopkins 9.684 15-4
Alvernia 9.667 18-3
Keene State 9.650 14-6
Christopher Newport 9.636 9-2
51-60
UW-Whitewater 9.611 13-5
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.600 14-6
Whitworth 9.600 15-5
Williams 9.591 15-7
Rhode Island College 9.545 15-7
Plymouth State 9.522 15-8
MIT 9.500 13-7
Southwestern 9.500 13-5
Catholic 9.474 14-5
McMurry 9.450 15-5
61-70
Salem State 9.429 15-6
New Jersey City 9.429 14-7
UW-Oshkosh 9.421 12-7
Elmhurst 9.421 13-6
Albright 9.421 12-7
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.400 13-7
Hanover 9.389 12-6
Hamilton 9.389 15-3
Richard Stockton 9.381 13-8
Willamette 9.353 15-2
71-80
North Central 9.353 12-5
UW-Stevens Point 9.350 13-7
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333 5-1
Lake Erie 9.278 15-3
Franklin 9.250 15-5
Messiah 9.250 14-6
Bethany 9.250 16-4
Rutgers-Newark 9.227 15-7
Emmanuel 9.190 16-5
Elms 9.167 14-4
81-90
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.143 15-6
Mount St. Mary 9.100 15-5
Brockport State 9.056 11-7
Utica 9.048 16-5
Ramapo 9.000 12-7
Milwaukee Engineering 9.000 14-6
Endicott 9.000 12-7
Coast Guard 9.000 14-6
Centre 9.000 12-6
Bowdoin 9.000 12-7
91-100
Averett 9.000 12-5
Scranton 8.952 15-6
Manhattanville 8.952 13-8
Oswego State 8.952 16-5
Loras 8.950 13-7
Elizabethtown 8.950 12-8
Chicago 8.941 10-7
Hardin-Simmons 8.905 14-7
Norwich 8.900 15-5
Mass-Boston 8.900 12-8
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilkes72 on February 13, 2006, 06:02:21 PM
Post by: wilkes72 on February 13, 2006, 06:02:21 PM
Baptist Bible 13-3, MA region 8.81. They have big wins over King's and Wilkes, which look good as well as a very close loss to Lincoln. There is one game remaining, against Keuka, their max is potentially 14-3, 9.29.
Correction on BB, they won over King's but lost to Wilkes. Probably a moot point since Pat says that they are ineligible.
Correction on BB, they won over King's but lost to Wilkes. Probably a moot point since Pat says that they are ineligible.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 08:43:11 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 08:43:11 AM
Yeah, I messed that one up, but indeed, they seem to be off the list anyway.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2006, 08:54:22 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 14, 2006, 08:54:22 AM
You wonder if they wish they could reconsider, given the bumblin o' the B's.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:10:59 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:10:59 AM
Maybe they have a legitimate shot to win the NCCAA, because they sure don't have one to win the NCAA d3 tournament, even though they have a good shot at getting in. I have to guess they would be pretty highly ranked in the NCCAA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:14:02 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:14:02 AM
This was a little convo on the Pool C board; it may mean nothing, but its something of which to be aware.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2006, 03:00:48 AM
One we should keep an eye on is the SCIAC. With no postseason tourney, if Occidental loses at CMS (which I and SCIAC fans would say is a better than average possibility) and CMS wins out, CMS would win the automatic bid and Oxy would be a near-lock in Pool C.
That may also change some things for Pool B as well. Right now Chapman is not looking too good. They do have a decent in-region winning percentage and could improve with a west-coast indy tournament (especially if NebWes shows up). However, Chapman has two wins over CMS, both very helpful in the QOWI, but would be even more so as two wins over a tournament team. It might not help Chapman enough, but we would certainly have to give them more consideration.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2006, 09:33:08 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 14, 2006, 09:33:08 AM
I can imagine geographic proximity working on the West Coast.
Chapman getting a Pool B vs SCIAC, especially if it is CMS, and the winner going to NWC Pool A, if there is no Pool C from the NWC.
Chapman's sweeping CMS would be 2 strong wins over a Tourney team.
Chapman getting a Pool B vs SCIAC, especially if it is CMS, and the winner going to NWC Pool A, if there is no Pool C from the NWC.
Chapman's sweeping CMS would be 2 strong wins over a Tourney team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:54:17 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:54:17 AM
The problem is that Oxy would no doubt get a pool C. However, with the new format, they could just play each other Oxy-NWC and CMS-Chapman. The only problem is that I don't know which round two teams from the same conference can start playing each other. If this worked out it would save anyone flying to the west coast and only one team having to fly from there for sectionals.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:58:46 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 09:58:46 AM
I just found it. The NCAA prohibits teams from the same conference playing in the first round, unless necessary because of geographic considerations. So the West Coast four team bracket makes sense.
Of course, this all hinges on CMS beating OXY, which is still debatable in my mind, but DC seems to think is pretty likely.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 14, 2006, 01:03:59 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 14, 2006, 01:03:59 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 14, 2006, 09:58:46 AM
Of course, this all hinges on CMS beating OXY, which is still debatable in my mind, but DC seems to think is pretty likely.
??? Not this DC. I've not seen CMS, so I rely on the experts in the SCIAC room, who generally think that Oxy underperforms on the road. But I'd make it even-money at worst for Oxy.
I did, however, postulate a SoCal regional with Chapman, CMS, Oxy, and the NWC rep several days ago. I think that's a real lip-smacker for the NCAA. In fact, if both SCIAC teams get in, I think this regional will take place even in Chapman's absence, with a Texas team (or other geographic problem child) subbing for them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 03:07:25 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2006, 03:07:25 PM
Sorry, I guess someone on another board attributed the CMS over OXy idea to you. I apologize for the misconception.
I think Oxy is probably good enough, even with another loss to justify a bye. These are the type of geographical issues that they save the byes for.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 15, 2006, 12:52:39 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 15, 2006, 12:52:39 PM
Will Lincoln overtake Ursinus in the Regional Poll?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 02:00:50 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 02:00:50 PM
I'm not sure. It could be close.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fritzdis on February 15, 2006, 02:05:16 PM
Post by: fritzdis on February 15, 2006, 02:05:16 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on February 15, 2006, 12:52:39 PMIf Ursinus' regional record is not corrected, then I doubt Lincoln's win over Richard-Stockton will outweigh the wins Ursinus had against the 2nd and 3rd place teams in their conference (including a 17-5 Johns Hopkins team that was ranked in the last regional ranking).
Will Lincoln overtake Ursinus in the Regional Poll?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 02:12:15 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 02:12:15 PM
Ursinius' record should be corrected, Pat said he had contacted the appropriate parties.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2006, 04:16:01 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 15, 2006, 04:16:01 PM
Regional ranks:
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=128
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=128
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 04:35:23 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 04:35:23 PM
Lincoln moves up to #3 in the MA Region.
Fisk and Maryville are tied for #7 in the South.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 04:35:54 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 15, 2006, 04:35:54 PM
It looks like we still have three front runners for the Pool B bids. I have to assume the last one will be between Villa Julie and Bethany.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 06:20:03 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 06:20:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 15, 2006, 04:35:23 PM
Lincoln moves up to #3 in the MA Region.
Fisk and Maryville are tied for #7 in the South.
I want to place Huntingdon College of the GSAC on the Pool B watch list.
HC can clinch a co-championship tonight with a win over Piedmont.
The designated GSAC tourney host in 2006, HC is the #2 seed in the tourney. They can win the tourney by defeating Fisk and then probably Maryville. Those 3 wins will boost the in-region to 12-6 (.667), and would give them best 2 out of 3 over both Maryville and Fisk, if they remained ranked on Selection Monday.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on February 15, 2006, 07:59:06 PM
Post by: Coach C on February 15, 2006, 07:59:06 PM
Ralph -
That is a pretty tough road you have mapped out for Huntingdon. Those are 3 tough wins at a time when all the teams are scrapping.
C
That is a pretty tough road you have mapped out for Huntingdon. Those are 3 tough wins at a time when all the teams are scrapping.
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 10:48:15 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 10:48:15 PM
Step 1: Huntingdon 91, at Piedmont 86 (1 OT)
Huntingdon is GSAC Co-Champion!
Congratulations to Coach Duckworth and the Hawks! :)
Huntingdon is GSAC Co-Champion!
Congratulations to Coach Duckworth and the Hawks! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 15, 2006, 10:51:16 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 15, 2006, 10:51:16 PM
Well Huntingdon beat Piedmont at Piedmont tonight. That leaves two. They beat both Maryville and Fisk last weekend at their gym, where the tournament will be. If Maryville is still without their leading scorer and best defender, which they probably will be (ACL), the Hawks have a shot. Beating Fisk is never easy, though (some non-Southern teams ought to venture down to Nashville and try it some year).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 11:08:31 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 15, 2006, 11:08:31 PM
ScottieDoug, congratualtions to MURVUL and to FISK!
Both are still regionally ranked!
Both are still regionally ranked!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 15, 2006, 11:40:16 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 15, 2006, 11:40:16 PM
Thanks, Ralph, but we gotta stop this losing thing. Your Huntingdon scenario seems all too realistic. At least the GSAC ought to get a rep.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 16, 2006, 08:11:55 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 16, 2006, 08:11:55 AM
It's good to see Lincoln move up in the Mid Atlantic Regionals. Widener surprised me with their run through what I thought would be some tough conderence games.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 09:40:09 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 09:40:09 AM
Revisiting my list of teams still "in the hunt" before this week's games:
Lincoln
Bethany
Fisk
Maryville
Villa Julie
Clarke
Chapman
Huntingdon
Rust
St Joe's
Keuka
Baptist Bible is off completely and that is only because Pat informed us that they declared for the NCCAA and will not be elligible. Aurora goes out after a huge beating at the hands of Clarke. I think there might be an outside shot for them still if they run the confernece tournament, but I feel safe marking them off right now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2006, 09:47:00 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2006, 09:47:00 AM
Great List, Hoops Fan! :)
Please keep the list up-to-date! :)
Rust hosts FISK on Saturday night. I have not heard of Rust participating in any indepedents' tourney, so a FISK win probably eliminates Rust.
Please keep the list up-to-date! :)
Rust hosts FISK on Saturday night. I have not heard of Rust participating in any indepedents' tourney, so a FISK win probably eliminates Rust.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2006, 09:51:39 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2006, 09:51:39 AM
Here's where they're at, in my power rating amalgamation
Lincoln (10)
Bethany (51)
Fisk (112)
Maryville (48)
Villa Julie (173)
Clarke (130)
Chapman (84)
Huntingdon (110)
Rust (161)
St Joe's (137)
Keuka (192)
Except for Lincoln, this seems to be 'cannon fodder' in the tourney, as usual.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 10:19:04 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2006, 10:19:04 AM
Are we positive the Indy-East tournament is going to happen? Lincoln gets nothing out of it besides some tune-up games for the tournament. St. Joes is the only school with reason to come, unless they can get Rust to fly up. I guess they could bring a provisional school down from NE, but that seems silly. Is there a chance this thing won't happen? I suppose Hood and Newbury might be choices as well, although they both stink.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 16, 2006, 11:30:57 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 16, 2006, 11:30:57 AM
Smedindy: What does "cxannon fodder" mean really? I acknowledge that Maryville has not advanced into the elite (playing after Elite 8) as Pool B over the last decade, but they have one more than they have lost in the tournamant....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2006, 12:07:23 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 16, 2006, 12:07:23 PM
Most of the "B"s seem to be one and done. (Taken as a whole) - and this years group doesn't look like it's going to be that strong, except for Lincoln, to win a game.
The "Bs" will just be a tune up game for one of the top seeds, I feel. But of course, the NCAA may draw it differently, so we'll see.
The "Bs" will just be a tune up game for one of the top seeds, I feel. But of course, the NCAA may draw it differently, so we'll see.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2006, 01:54:43 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2006, 01:54:43 PM
Quality of Wins Index through games of Thursday, Feb. 17:
Amherst 12.000 21-1
Lawrence 11.842 19-0
Trinity (Texas) 11.188 14-2
Worcester Polytech 11.182 19-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.938 13-3
York (Pa.) 10.864 20-2
Tufts 10.864 18-4
Augustana 10.857 19-2
Cortland State 10.810 20-1
St. John Fisher 10.789 18-1
11-20
Mississippi College 10.727 21-1
Wooster 10.700 19-1
Lincoln 10.563 12-4
Gordon 10.545 20-2
Transylvania 10.522 19-4
Virginia Wesleyan 10.500 21-3
Wittenberg 10.368 16-3
New York University 10.333 17-4
William Paterson 10.318 16-6
Baruch 10.190 19-2
21-30
Calvin 10.182 10-1
Carroll 10.150 17-3
Baldwin-Wallace 10.136 19-3
Randolph-Macon 10.136 17-5
Trinity (Conn.) 10.111 14-4
Widener 10.091 19-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.056 13-5
Rochester 10.056 13-5
Bates 10.050 15-5
Occidental 10.000 11-2
31-40
Nebraska Wesleyan 10.000 5-1
Carleton 10.000 16-4
Wartburg 10.000 16-4
Lakeland 10.000 16-3
St. Thomas 9.957 18-5
UW-La Crosse 9.955 17-5
Ursinus 9.955 18-4
Keene State 9.905 15-6
New Jersey 9.900 14-6
UW-Whitewater 9.895 14-5
41-50
Washington U. 9.875 11-5
Alvernia 9.864 19-3
UW-Stout 9.842 15-4
Puget Sound 9.800 13-2
Fisk 9.769 9-4
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.762 16-5
Hope 9.750 14-2
Rhode Island College 9.696 15-8
Whitworth 9.667 16-5
Catholic 9.650 15-5
51-60
Emmanuel 9.636 17-5
Christopher Newport 9.636 9-2
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.600 14-6
Westfield State 9.591 15-7
Williams 9.591 15-7
North Central 9.556 13-5
Johns Hopkins 9.500 15-5
MIT 9.476 14-7
Albion 9.462 10-3
Plymouth State 9.458 15-9
61-70
Richard Stockton 9.455 14-8
Salem State 9.435 17-6
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.429 13-8
Hanover 9.421 13-6
New Jersey City 9.409 15-7
Hamilton 9.389 15-3
Southwestern 9.389 13-5
Coast Guard 9.381 15-6
Howard Payne 9.364 16-6
Willamette 9.353 15-2
71-80
Bowdoin 9.350 13-7
Albright 9.350 13-7
Bethany 9.333 17-4
Lake Erie 9.278 15-3
Coe 9.263 13-6
Elms 9.263 15-4
Elmhurst 9.250 13-7
UW-Oshkosh 9.250 12-8
Norwich 9.190 16-5
Scranton 9.182 16-6
81-90
Mount St. Mary 9.143 16-5
Franklin 9.143 15-6
UW-Stevens Point 9.143 13-8
Loras 9.143 14-7
McMurry 9.143 16-5
Averett 9.111 13-5
Villa Julie 9.105 15-4
Brockport State 9.105 12-7
Mass-Boston 9.095 13-8
Colby-Sawyer 9.095 13-8
91-100
Elizabethtown 9.095 13-8
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.091 16-6
Rutgers-Newark 9.087 15-8
Utica 9.048 16-5
Endicott 9.048 13-8
Centre 9.000 12-6
Manhattanville 9.000 15-8
Milwaukee Engineering 9.000 14-6
Gettysburg 8.955 14-8
Messiah 8.952 14-7
101-110
Gustavus Adolphus 8.952 15-6
Ohio Northern 8.947 14-5
Chicago 8.941 10-7
Baptist Bible 8.938 13-3
Ramapo 8.900 12-8
Wilmington 8.875 18-6
Brandeis 8.857 12-9
Ohio Wesleyan 8.810 15-6
St. John's 8.800 14-6
King's 8.773 14-8
111-120
Oswego State 8.773 16-6
Springfield 8.773 10-12
Hardin-Simmons 8.727 14-8
Montclair State 8.714 11-10
Mary Washington 8.688 11-5
Clarke 8.684 12-7
Aurora 8.667 11-7
Plattsburgh State 8.650 12-8
Potsdam State 8.650 13-7
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 8.647 12-5
Amherst 12.000 21-1
Lawrence 11.842 19-0
Trinity (Texas) 11.188 14-2
Worcester Polytech 11.182 19-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.938 13-3
York (Pa.) 10.864 20-2
Tufts 10.864 18-4
Augustana 10.857 19-2
Cortland State 10.810 20-1
St. John Fisher 10.789 18-1
11-20
Mississippi College 10.727 21-1
Wooster 10.700 19-1
Lincoln 10.563 12-4
Gordon 10.545 20-2
Transylvania 10.522 19-4
Virginia Wesleyan 10.500 21-3
Wittenberg 10.368 16-3
New York University 10.333 17-4
William Paterson 10.318 16-6
Baruch 10.190 19-2
21-30
Calvin 10.182 10-1
Carroll 10.150 17-3
Baldwin-Wallace 10.136 19-3
Randolph-Macon 10.136 17-5
Trinity (Conn.) 10.111 14-4
Widener 10.091 19-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.056 13-5
Rochester 10.056 13-5
Bates 10.050 15-5
Occidental 10.000 11-2
31-40
Nebraska Wesleyan 10.000 5-1
Carleton 10.000 16-4
Wartburg 10.000 16-4
Lakeland 10.000 16-3
St. Thomas 9.957 18-5
UW-La Crosse 9.955 17-5
Ursinus 9.955 18-4
Keene State 9.905 15-6
New Jersey 9.900 14-6
UW-Whitewater 9.895 14-5
41-50
Washington U. 9.875 11-5
Alvernia 9.864 19-3
UW-Stout 9.842 15-4
Puget Sound 9.800 13-2
Fisk 9.769 9-4
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.762 16-5
Hope 9.750 14-2
Rhode Island College 9.696 15-8
Whitworth 9.667 16-5
Catholic 9.650 15-5
51-60
Emmanuel 9.636 17-5
Christopher Newport 9.636 9-2
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.600 14-6
Westfield State 9.591 15-7
Williams 9.591 15-7
North Central 9.556 13-5
Johns Hopkins 9.500 15-5
MIT 9.476 14-7
Albion 9.462 10-3
Plymouth State 9.458 15-9
61-70
Richard Stockton 9.455 14-8
Salem State 9.435 17-6
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.429 13-8
Hanover 9.421 13-6
New Jersey City 9.409 15-7
Hamilton 9.389 15-3
Southwestern 9.389 13-5
Coast Guard 9.381 15-6
Howard Payne 9.364 16-6
Willamette 9.353 15-2
71-80
Bowdoin 9.350 13-7
Albright 9.350 13-7
Bethany 9.333 17-4
Lake Erie 9.278 15-3
Coe 9.263 13-6
Elms 9.263 15-4
Elmhurst 9.250 13-7
UW-Oshkosh 9.250 12-8
Norwich 9.190 16-5
Scranton 9.182 16-6
81-90
Mount St. Mary 9.143 16-5
Franklin 9.143 15-6
UW-Stevens Point 9.143 13-8
Loras 9.143 14-7
McMurry 9.143 16-5
Averett 9.111 13-5
Villa Julie 9.105 15-4
Brockport State 9.105 12-7
Mass-Boston 9.095 13-8
Colby-Sawyer 9.095 13-8
91-100
Elizabethtown 9.095 13-8
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.091 16-6
Rutgers-Newark 9.087 15-8
Utica 9.048 16-5
Endicott 9.048 13-8
Centre 9.000 12-6
Manhattanville 9.000 15-8
Milwaukee Engineering 9.000 14-6
Gettysburg 8.955 14-8
Messiah 8.952 14-7
101-110
Gustavus Adolphus 8.952 15-6
Ohio Northern 8.947 14-5
Chicago 8.941 10-7
Baptist Bible 8.938 13-3
Ramapo 8.900 12-8
Wilmington 8.875 18-6
Brandeis 8.857 12-9
Ohio Wesleyan 8.810 15-6
St. John's 8.800 14-6
King's 8.773 14-8
111-120
Oswego State 8.773 16-6
Springfield 8.773 10-12
Hardin-Simmons 8.727 14-8
Montclair State 8.714 11-10
Mary Washington 8.688 11-5
Clarke 8.684 12-7
Aurora 8.667 11-7
Plattsburgh State 8.650 12-8
Potsdam State 8.650 13-7
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 8.647 12-5
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 02:41:40 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 02:41:40 PM
Through last night:
13. Lincoln 10.563 12-4
45. Fisk 9.769 9-4
53. Maryville (Tenn.) 9.600 14-6
73. Bethany 9.333 17-4
87. Villa Julie 9.105 15-4
116. Clarke 8.684 12-7
117. Aurora 8.667 11-7
13. Lincoln 10.563 12-4
45. Fisk 9.769 9-4
53. Maryville (Tenn.) 9.600 14-6
73. Bethany 9.333 17-4
87. Villa Julie 9.105 15-4
116. Clarke 8.684 12-7
117. Aurora 8.667 11-7
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 03:45:01 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 17, 2006, 03:45:01 PM
It's going to be tough for anyone to crack that top four, unless Fisk and Maryville choke again.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2006, 08:09:54 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2006, 08:09:54 PM
For those interested, Huntingdon's QOWI is 8.375.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2006, 08:32:41 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2006, 08:32:41 PM
I can imagine Huntingdon getting a Pool B in this scenario.
Fisk beats Rust on Saturday night. That raises their in-region to 10-4.
Huntingdon defeats Fisk (in Montgomery) in the semis of the GSAC Tourney. That is a 14-point QOWI win for Huntingdon.
Maryville wins its semifinal and then loses to Huntingdon in the finals of the GSAC tourney. That will give them an in-region record of 15-7 for a 14-point QOWI win for Huntingdon. That raises Huntingdon's QOWI to 9.000, and raises their South Region record to 12-6.
Against previously ranked in-region teams, they have won the season series against both Fisk and Maryville, 2 out of 3 games.
Fisk beats Rust on Saturday night. That raises their in-region to 10-4.
Huntingdon defeats Fisk (in Montgomery) in the semis of the GSAC Tourney. That is a 14-point QOWI win for Huntingdon.
Maryville wins its semifinal and then loses to Huntingdon in the finals of the GSAC tourney. That will give them an in-region record of 15-7 for a 14-point QOWI win for Huntingdon. That raises Huntingdon's QOWI to 9.000, and raises their South Region record to 12-6.
Against previously ranked in-region teams, they have won the season series against both Fisk and Maryville, 2 out of 3 games.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Griffcoach22 on February 17, 2006, 11:57:56 PM
Post by: Griffcoach22 on February 17, 2006, 11:57:56 PM
Ralph,
Do you think it is possible for Huntingdon to get a pool B bid if they beat Fisk in the first round of the conference tourny and lose to Maryville in the finals? What would that scenario do to their QOWI?
Probably going to be tough to beat Fisk and MC both again two weeks in a row I would imagine. Anything can happen though.
Thanks for your reply in advance.
Do you think it is possible for Huntingdon to get a pool B bid if they beat Fisk in the first round of the conference tourny and lose to Maryville in the finals? What would that scenario do to their QOWI?
Probably going to be tough to beat Fisk and MC both again two weeks in a row I would imagine. Anything can happen though.
Thanks for your reply in advance.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2006, 09:01:44 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2006, 09:01:44 AM
Quote from: Griffcoach22 on February 17, 2006, 11:57:56 PMI calculate that it drops their QOWI back to the 8.556 range, assuming no other values are changed in the other teams.
Ralph,
Do you think it is possible for Huntingdon to get a pool B bid if they beat Fisk in the first round of the conference tourny and lose to Maryville in the finals? What would that scenario do to their QOWI?
Probably going to be tough to beat Fisk and MC both again two weeks in a row I would imagine. Anything can happen though.
Thanks for your reply in advance.
Griff, my nature is to predict what I think can be achieved by my efforts or by those of someone else who is asking me for advice.
I can confidently make the case for the Huntingdon team and fans; you do this (win the conference tourney) and this is your case to present to the Selection Committee. Surely it will be hard to beat both Maryville and Fisk again, but the "Conference Champion" has that mindset! If you are the conference champ, then you defeat them both, again. The conference tourney winner will have won the season series among each of the those 3 teams, 2 out of 3!
I will predict that one GSAC team gets a Pool B bid. I do not know the workings of the committee to pontificate on the potential for a 2nd Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 12:46:03 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 12:46:03 AM
Let's remember a developing situation concerning Chapman.
Chapman has 2 wins over SCIAC-leading CMS.
This really helps Chapman, if CMS ends up in the Final ranking.
Chapman has 2 wins over SCIAC-leading CMS.
This really helps Chapman, if CMS ends up in the Final ranking.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 19, 2006, 12:53:34 AM
Post by: David Collinge on February 19, 2006, 12:53:34 AM
...and CMS clinched at least a tie for the SCIAC title tonight by beating Occidental. They will take the SCIAC Pool A bid with a victory over LaVerne (11-10) Monday or Cal Lu (9-14) Thursday, or, if need be, in a one-game playoff vs. Oxy next weekend. Havng CMS in the tournament has to help Chapman.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 12:57:34 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 12:57:34 AM
I cannot remember if or when or in what sport there was a criterion acknowledging wins over other playoff teams, but that verbage is no longer in the Handbook.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2006, 02:09:04 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2006, 02:09:04 AM
There was in all three of "our" sports, but it was struck from the criteria a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 19, 2006, 09:44:02 AM
Post by: joe smith on February 19, 2006, 09:44:02 AM
Bethany wins it's last regular season game last night drumming another Thiel 99-64. They improved to 21-4 and 18-4 in the region. They've now won 16 in a row after a 5-4 start. They will have homecourt throughout the conference tourny. I don't see anyone in the conference coming close to beating this team in the their tourny. The only team I think that might have a shot is Westminster who is playing very well in the conference as of late. Look for Bethany to get 2 more wins and finish 23-4 and 20-4 in the region. Looks like a shoe-in for the ncaa tourny to me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: d3hoops8585 on February 19, 2006, 11:43:17 AM
Post by: d3hoops8585 on February 19, 2006, 11:43:17 AM
people should really be talking about villa Julie getting a Pool B Bid...they're 17-7, 12-4 in conference and 4 of those losses have come with their point guard (chris warren) injured. They won the pride of Maryland Tournanment, which should almost be an automatic bid in itself and they had catholic beat until the end. If they win their conference tournament, I dont think there should be any discussion whatsoever, they should defiintely get in, but I think if they make it to the championship game, they should get in too..they've had a great season and should be rewarded for doing so
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 11:59:04 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 11:59:04 AM
Joe, I don't think you can say Bethany is a shoo-in.
I see that there are probably 7 teams competing for the 4 bids.
GSAC:
Maryville -- Tied for 7th in the South Region Rankings with...
Fisk -- and both of those teams may play...
Huntingdon -- in the GSAC Tourney.
Give one bid to the winner of those 3.
Bethany -- needs to win the Pres AC tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners, and cannot wait to get to Pool A status in 2008.
Villa Julie -- needs to win the NEAC tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners. I believe that the NEAC moves to Pool A in 2007. VJC moves to the Capital AC...Bye-bye Pool B.
Clarke -- has a nice win against UW-Stevens Point. Won the NIIC regular season but needs to win the NIIC tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners. The other 4 members of the NIIC move to the Lake Michigan to form a new conference.
Chapman -- may have the good fortune of sweeping CMS in the SCIAC who might be a Pool A bid winner. Chapman needs to win the West Regional Indepedents tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners.
I see that there are probably 7 teams competing for the 4 bids.
GSAC:
Maryville -- Tied for 7th in the South Region Rankings with...
Fisk -- and both of those teams may play...
Huntingdon -- in the GSAC Tourney.
Give one bid to the winner of those 3.
Bethany -- needs to win the Pres AC tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners, and cannot wait to get to Pool A status in 2008.
Villa Julie -- needs to win the NEAC tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners. I believe that the NEAC moves to Pool A in 2007. VJC moves to the Capital AC...Bye-bye Pool B.
Clarke -- has a nice win against UW-Stevens Point. Won the NIIC regular season but needs to win the NIIC tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners. The other 4 members of the NIIC move to the Lake Michigan to form a new conference.
Chapman -- may have the good fortune of sweeping CMS in the SCIAC who might be a Pool A bid winner. Chapman needs to win the West Regional Indepedents tourney just to keep up with the other tourney winners.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 19, 2006, 01:26:07 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 19, 2006, 01:26:07 PM
Did I just read a post stating that Clarke has a chance to get in? Go Crusaders!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2006, 01:27:27 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2006, 01:27:27 PM
Problem is, the gap between Clarke and the other Pool B contenders is so wide that I think those teams can lose and still be ahead of the Crusaders.
This just came up on the Daily Dose.
This just came up on the Daily Dose.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 19, 2006, 04:22:16 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 19, 2006, 04:22:16 PM
So lets say that I can't miss a Clarke game, and I have to put down a deposit on a trip that would occur during the first game of the NCAA DIII tourny of lets say $1000, and the deposit is non-refundable..are you tellin me i should go ahead and do this because clarke has no chance at all?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 05:01:34 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2006, 05:01:34 PM
Save the money! ;)
If they go to Salem, use the money to upgrade your computer system to maximize the program content that Pat will be putting out from the Final Four. 8) :)
If they go to Salem, use the money to upgrade your computer system to maximize the program content that Pat will be putting out from the Final Four. 8) :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 19, 2006, 07:54:49 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 19, 2006, 07:54:49 PM
So you're tellin me there's a chance...YEA!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 10:37:36 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 10:37:36 AM
Revisiting out list of "in the hunt" schools:
Lincoln
Bethany
Fisk
Maryville
Villa Julie
Clarke
Chapman
Huntingdon
Rust
St Joe's
Keuka
I can't find scores for the Rust-Fisk game or St. Joe's last game. Losses here would knock them out. Keuka beat Baptist Bible and seems to be playing well. If something odd happens this week and they get ranked in the East, they could become a contender, even without the resume for it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 11:58:36 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 11:58:36 AM
Just got word that Rust/Fisk has been postponed until Tuesday.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 12:38:02 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 12:38:02 PM
St Joe's beat UMPI; I just found that score. I can't imagine St. Joe's is still in it, but with the way this committee picks pool B bids, I am so hesitant to take anyone off the list. I need to do another QOWI now that we know what the possibilities are for the post-season.
Any word from Lincoln on whether or not this Indy tournament is going to take place?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 12:39:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 12:39:36 PM
Hoops Fan,
You're the only one who has questioned whether it is taking place.
You're the only one who has questioned whether it is taking place.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 01:00:37 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 01:00:37 PM
Yeah, its just my way of saying "why don't we have any information on it yet?" I'm a see it to belive it kind of guy.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 01:06:24 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 01:06:24 PM
There's a release on Lincoln's site dated Feb. 17 that might be of interest.
http://www.lincoln.edu/athletics/mbasketball/indexa209.html
http://www.lincoln.edu/athletics/mbasketball/indexa209.html
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 02:16:50 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 02:16:50 PM
I just checked that page like a hour ago and that was not there.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 02:23:15 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 02:23:15 PM
So Lincoln and St Joe's are the only one's with anything to gain (or lose) in this tourney.
Mitchell is a provisional, so if Lincoln can get them in the first round, they avoid losing QOWI points with the win.
A Lincoln win over St Joe's is a 12 pointer, so that should help. Just God forbid if they lose. I think they are safe either way, but it could mean the difference between hosting or not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 04:22:21 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 04:22:21 PM
Well, they aren't regional games, so unless they go to the secondary criteria, it doesn't do anything.
Independent tourney games do not get counted as regional unless teams are from the same region or the 200-mile rule is in effect, as far as I know.
Independent tourney games do not get counted as regional unless teams are from the same region or the 200-mile rule is in effect, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 04:59:53 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 04:59:53 PM
I thought the independant post-season tournament counted as regional games? Wasn't that the reason they let them do it? It certainly can't be because of revenue.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 05:02:23 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 05:02:23 PM
The reason is opportunities for competition equitable to everyone in a conference.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 05:02:42 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 05:02:42 PM
QOWI through games of Sunday, Feb. 19:
1-10
Amherst 11.826 22-1
Lawrence 11.550 20-0
York (Pa.) 11.043 21-2
Worcester Polytech 11.000 19-3
Mississippi College 10.913 22-1
Trinity (Texas) 10.833 16-2
Tufts 10.826 19-4
Lincoln 10.813 12-4
St. John Fisher 10.810 20-1
Augustana 10.773 19-3
11-20
Cortland State 10.609 21-2
Virginia Wesleyan 10.538 23-3
Gordon 10.522 21-2
William Paterson 10.435 17-6
Carnegie Mellon 10.389 14-4
Wittenberg 10.350 17-3
Wooster 10.333 19-2
Lakeland 10.200 17-3
Widener 10.174 19-4
Transylvania 10.167 20-4
21-30
Calvin 10.167 11-1
Keene State 10.136 16-6
Randolph-Macon 10.125 19-5
Washington U. 10.111 13-5
Carroll 10.095 18-3
Occidental 10.071 11-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.053 14-5
Bates 10.048 16-5
Baruch 10.045 20-2
Alvernia 10.045 19-3
31-40
UW-Stout 10.000 16-4
Baldwin-Wallace 10.000 19-4
Trinity (Conn.) 10.000 15-4
Carleton 9.952 17-4
UW-Whitewater 9.950 15-5
New Jersey 9.905 14-7
North Central 9.895 14-5
Hope 9.875 14-2
UW-La Crosse 9.870 17-6
Ursinus 9.826 18-5
41-50
St. Thomas 9.783 18-5
Richard Stockton 9.783 15-8
Fisk 9.769 9-4
New Jersey City 9.739 16-7
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.714 6-1
Puget Sound 9.706 15-2
New York University 9.696 17-6
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.667 16-5
Utica 9.652 18-5
Lake Erie 9.650 16-4
51-60
MIT 9.636 15-7
Rhode Island College 9.625 16-8
Albright 9.619 14-7
Salem State 9.583 18-6
Catholic 9.571 16-5
Wartburg 9.524 17-4
Messiah 9.500 15-7
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.500 14-6
Plymouth State 9.480 16-9
Westfield State 9.478 16-7
61-70
Williams 9.478 15-8
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.455 14-8
Whitworth 9.455 17-5
Rochester 9.450 13-7
Hanover 9.400 13-7
Emmanuel 9.391 18-5
Howard Payne 9.391 17-6
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.391 17-6
Bethany 9.364 18-4
Albion 9.357 11-3
71-80
Johns Hopkins 9.286 15-6
UW-Oshkosh 9.286 13-8
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.278 13-5
Scranton 9.217 17-6
Willamette 9.211 16-3
Ohio Northern 9.200 15-5
Franklin 9.182 16-6
Elizabethtown 9.182 13-9
UW-Stevens Point 9.182 14-8
Brockport State 9.150 12-8
81-90
Hamilton 9.150 16-4
Bowdoin 9.143 13-8
Elmhurst 9.143 14-7
Elms 9.143 17-4
Mount St. Mary 9.136 17-5
McMurry 9.136 16-6
Centre 9.100 13-7
Mass-Boston 9.091 13-9
Endicott 9.091 14-8
Rutgers-Newark 9.083 16-8
91-100
Averett 9.053 14-5
Ohio Wesleyan 9.045 16-6
Oswego State 9.043 17-6
Wilmington 9.040 19-6
Coe 9.000 14-6
Colby-Sawyer 8.955 14-8
Chicago 8.947 11-8
Pomona-Pitzer 8.933 11-4
Manhattanville 8.913 15-8
Gettysburg 8.913 15-8
101-110
Villa Julie 8.895 15-4
Coast Guard 8.864 15-7
Norwich 8.864 17-5
St. John's 8.857 15-6
Milwaukee Engineering 8.857 14-7
Ramapo 8.857 12-9
La Verne 8.857 8-6
Penn State-Behrend 8.850 15-5
Southwestern 8.850 14-6
King's 8.783 15-8
111-120
Gustavus Adolphus 8.773 15-7
Pitt-Greensburg 8.762 14-7
Kean 8.760 13-12
Montclair State 8.727 11-11
Mass-Dartmouth 8.714 11-10
Baptist Bible 8.706 13-4
Brandeis 8.696 13-10
Loras 8.682 14-8
Clarke 8.650 13-7
Christopher Newport 8.615 9-4
1-10
Amherst 11.826 22-1
Lawrence 11.550 20-0
York (Pa.) 11.043 21-2
Worcester Polytech 11.000 19-3
Mississippi College 10.913 22-1
Trinity (Texas) 10.833 16-2
Tufts 10.826 19-4
Lincoln 10.813 12-4
St. John Fisher 10.810 20-1
Augustana 10.773 19-3
11-20
Cortland State 10.609 21-2
Virginia Wesleyan 10.538 23-3
Gordon 10.522 21-2
William Paterson 10.435 17-6
Carnegie Mellon 10.389 14-4
Wittenberg 10.350 17-3
Wooster 10.333 19-2
Lakeland 10.200 17-3
Widener 10.174 19-4
Transylvania 10.167 20-4
21-30
Calvin 10.167 11-1
Keene State 10.136 16-6
Randolph-Macon 10.125 19-5
Washington U. 10.111 13-5
Carroll 10.095 18-3
Occidental 10.071 11-3
Illinois Wesleyan 10.053 14-5
Bates 10.048 16-5
Baruch 10.045 20-2
Alvernia 10.045 19-3
31-40
UW-Stout 10.000 16-4
Baldwin-Wallace 10.000 19-4
Trinity (Conn.) 10.000 15-4
Carleton 9.952 17-4
UW-Whitewater 9.950 15-5
New Jersey 9.905 14-7
North Central 9.895 14-5
Hope 9.875 14-2
UW-La Crosse 9.870 17-6
Ursinus 9.826 18-5
41-50
St. Thomas 9.783 18-5
Richard Stockton 9.783 15-8
Fisk 9.769 9-4
New Jersey City 9.739 16-7
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.714 6-1
Puget Sound 9.706 15-2
New York University 9.696 17-6
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.667 16-5
Utica 9.652 18-5
Lake Erie 9.650 16-4
51-60
MIT 9.636 15-7
Rhode Island College 9.625 16-8
Albright 9.619 14-7
Salem State 9.583 18-6
Catholic 9.571 16-5
Wartburg 9.524 17-4
Messiah 9.500 15-7
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.500 14-6
Plymouth State 9.480 16-9
Westfield State 9.478 16-7
61-70
Williams 9.478 15-8
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.455 14-8
Whitworth 9.455 17-5
Rochester 9.450 13-7
Hanover 9.400 13-7
Emmanuel 9.391 18-5
Howard Payne 9.391 17-6
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.391 17-6
Bethany 9.364 18-4
Albion 9.357 11-3
71-80
Johns Hopkins 9.286 15-6
UW-Oshkosh 9.286 13-8
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.278 13-5
Scranton 9.217 17-6
Willamette 9.211 16-3
Ohio Northern 9.200 15-5
Franklin 9.182 16-6
Elizabethtown 9.182 13-9
UW-Stevens Point 9.182 14-8
Brockport State 9.150 12-8
81-90
Hamilton 9.150 16-4
Bowdoin 9.143 13-8
Elmhurst 9.143 14-7
Elms 9.143 17-4
Mount St. Mary 9.136 17-5
McMurry 9.136 16-6
Centre 9.100 13-7
Mass-Boston 9.091 13-9
Endicott 9.091 14-8
Rutgers-Newark 9.083 16-8
91-100
Averett 9.053 14-5
Ohio Wesleyan 9.045 16-6
Oswego State 9.043 17-6
Wilmington 9.040 19-6
Coe 9.000 14-6
Colby-Sawyer 8.955 14-8
Chicago 8.947 11-8
Pomona-Pitzer 8.933 11-4
Manhattanville 8.913 15-8
Gettysburg 8.913 15-8
101-110
Villa Julie 8.895 15-4
Coast Guard 8.864 15-7
Norwich 8.864 17-5
St. John's 8.857 15-6
Milwaukee Engineering 8.857 14-7
Ramapo 8.857 12-9
La Verne 8.857 8-6
Penn State-Behrend 8.850 15-5
Southwestern 8.850 14-6
King's 8.783 15-8
111-120
Gustavus Adolphus 8.773 15-7
Pitt-Greensburg 8.762 14-7
Kean 8.760 13-12
Montclair State 8.727 11-11
Mass-Dartmouth 8.714 11-10
Baptist Bible 8.706 13-4
Brandeis 8.696 13-10
Loras 8.682 14-8
Clarke 8.650 13-7
Christopher Newport 8.615 9-4
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 05:09:27 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 20, 2006, 05:09:27 PM
OK, glad I waited and didn't do these myself:
Lincoln 10.813 12-4
Fisk 9.767 9-4
Maryville 9.500 14-6
Bethany 9.364 18-4
Villa Julie 8.895 15-4
Clarke 8.650 13-7
There are your contenders folks. I can't imagine anyone else sneaking in, with the possible exception of Keuka, Chapman or St Joe's
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 20, 2006, 07:32:36 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 20, 2006, 07:32:36 PM
does villa julie and clarke have a chance? the gap looks so big that even with a loss, it's iffy.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2006, 09:57:12 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 20, 2006, 09:57:12 PM
It all depends on how the GSAC conference plays out, I think.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2006, 10:37:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2006, 10:37:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2006, 08:32:41 PM
I can imagine Huntingdon getting a Pool B in this scenario.
Fisk beats Rust onSaturdayTuesday night. That raises their in-region to 10-4.
Huntingdon defeats Fisk (in Montgomery) in the semis of the GSAC Tourney. That is a 14-point QOWI win for Huntingdon.
Maryville wins its semifinal (over Piedmont which has defeated LaGrange in the play-in game) and then loses to Huntingdon in the finals of the GSAC tourney. That will give them an in-region record of 15-7 for a 14-point QOWI win for Huntingdon. That raises Huntingdon's QOWI to 9.000, and raises their South Region record to 12-6.
Against previously ranked in-region teams, they have won the season series against both Fisk and Maryville, 2 out of 3 games.
--Lincoln 10.813 12-4
--Fisk 9.767 9-4 [Win over Rust; 2nd loss to Huntingdon: 9.80 10-5 (0.667 %-age and a win over (?Regionally Ranked?) RMC]
--Maryville 9.500 14-6 [Win over Piedmont; 2nd loss to Huntingdon: 9.632 15-7 (.682 %-age)]
--Bethany 9.364 18-4 (.788)
--Huntingdon 9.000 12-6 (0.667 %-age; Still my darkhorse! Would have 2 wins over current Regionally Ranked teams, Fisk and Maryville.***)
--Villa Julie 8.895 15-4 (.789 %-age)
--Clarke 8.650 13-7 (.650)
***If we see this outcome in the GSAC tourney, we will get an interesting insight into the workings of the Selection Committee!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2006, 11:47:43 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2006, 11:47:43 PM
Lincoln beats Penn State-Abington 115-83 at home on Senior Night. Senior Kyle Myrick dropped a career high and school record 62 points, breaking Jarrett Kearse's 54 points established February 12. 2005. Myrick also had 7 steals, 6 rebounds, and 6 assists, and has "upped his average to 32.8 ppg. Myrick's topped the 1500 pts, and is No. 2 on Lincoln's All-Time scoring list with 1,512 pts.
Lincoln is now 21-4 on the year and will host the DIII Independent Northeast tournament this weekend with St. Joseph College, Newberry College, and Mitchell College. Attendance tonight was 1451 rabid Lion fans.
Lincoln is now 21-4 on the year and will host the DIII Independent Northeast tournament this weekend with St. Joseph College, Newberry College, and Mitchell College. Attendance tonight was 1451 rabid Lion fans.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 20, 2006, 11:59:10 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 20, 2006, 11:59:10 PM
62 points...that's amazing
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 21, 2006, 12:04:59 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 21, 2006, 12:04:59 AM
crusaders:
Kyle Myrick was in "The Zone" tonight. The final home regular season game with his parents in attendance, he put on a show. The other starters were no slouches either. Myrick's backcourt mate Sami Wylie is a three point machine, and ranks high on the national list for 3 pointers. Darryl White is a defensive monster when it comes to shot blocking, with Tyreek Byard and Thomas Hickson are playing well to round out the starting five.
Kyle Myrick was in "The Zone" tonight. The final home regular season game with his parents in attendance, he put on a show. The other starters were no slouches either. Myrick's backcourt mate Sami Wylie is a three point machine, and ranks high on the national list for 3 pointers. Darryl White is a defensive monster when it comes to shot blocking, with Tyreek Byard and Thomas Hickson are playing well to round out the starting five.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 21, 2006, 12:32:50 AM
Post by: crusaders on February 21, 2006, 12:32:50 AM
This Myrick kid sounds like an amazing player...I was just looking over the stats on ncca.com for d3...he's first in scoring and second in assists in the nation...that's extremely impressive, he had 20 assists in one game! do yu think he has what it takes to play at the next level?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2006, 03:34:27 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2006, 03:34:27 AM
We understand he is being looked at by those kinds of people.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 08:47:28 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 08:47:28 AM
ESPN.com had a story a few weeks back about how he's played with NBA guys and they think he's got a good shot. I wouldn't be suprised if someone used a second round pick on him.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 09:38:21 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 09:38:21 AM
I know Pat gave us the word that NebWes is out because of their sub-.500 overall records, but are we sure about that one? They are participating in the West independent tournament, which seems like a lot of needless expense if they really are out of contention.
Chapman plays Colorado College in the first round and NebWes gets host UC-Santa Cruz. Chapman could benefit from a potential 15 point win in the title game, but it still may not be enough to get them into consideration. I'm worried about the West, sneaky things always happen out there.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 21, 2006, 04:26:59 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 21, 2006, 04:26:59 PM
Does Lincoln jump Widener in the regional rankings now? The Pioneers lost to Messiah and now have four in-region losses which matches Lincoln's in-region losses. I see from the Widener web site, the Pioneers has one regular season game remaining.
Due to the Holiday this week, when will the Top 25 rankings come out?. Additionally, are the Regional rankings postphoned a day?
Due to the Holiday this week, when will the Top 25 rankings come out?. Additionally, are the Regional rankings postphoned a day?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 04:29:48 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 21, 2006, 04:29:48 PM
I think so.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 21, 2006, 05:13:48 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 21, 2006, 05:13:48 PM
Any possibility that Lincoln would receive a Pool C bid, eliminating them from a Pool B bid and opening up that slot for another team?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 05:20:46 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 05:20:46 PM
B's come before C's
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2006, 06:14:47 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2006, 06:14:47 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on February 21, 2006, 04:26:59 PM
Due to the Holiday this week, when will the Top 25 rankings come out?.
They came out yesterday afternoon, at the normal time.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2006, 06:16:17 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2006, 06:16:17 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 21, 2006, 09:38:21 AM
I know Pat gave us the word that NebWes is out because of their sub-.500 overall records, but are we sure about that one? They are participating in the West independent tournament, which seems like a lot of needless expense if they really are out of contention.
I asked NCAA for clarification and they said, in fact, the info I was given in 2004 is incorrect or no longer valid. Expect a rant tonight on that on Hoopsville.
BTW, I wouldn't see the indy tournament solely as a vehicle for making the NCAA playoffs. If so, why would Green Mountain or Mitchell bother either? Sometimes it's just so the kids can have some competition and something to play for!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 06:16:39 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 06:16:39 PM
Holiday? Those of us in the private world had to work anyway!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 06:18:09 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 21, 2006, 06:18:09 PM
Pat, I wouldn't rant - the NCAA ignores non-D3 games and non-region games for selection, so they're just being consistent by ignoring Nebraska Wesleyan's NAIA conference game.
Yes, I said consistent and NCAA. HAH!
Yes, I said consistent and NCAA. HAH!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2006, 09:53:19 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2006, 09:53:19 AM
I posted this on the rant, but the biggest problem is that the NCAA is too weak to deny a team, even one with as little clout as Nebraska Wesleyan. In the 2006 Championship Handbook it clearly states that a team must play 50% of its schedule against in-region d3 opponents in order to qualify for the post-season. Then it says that a team may petition the NCAA to have this requirement waived.
The NCAA needs to stop granting these petitions in certain cases.
So now we've got two of the four bids gone: Lincoln and NebWes will lamost certainly be in. I would assume, even if Chapman can take them out, the 7-2 region record would be good enough to get them in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 22, 2006, 10:51:03 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 22, 2006, 10:51:03 AM
Yeesh. If Neb Wes makes it - they're going to get garroted big time. Last time I did the power rankings they were 261.
And hopefully this will cause a clamor to change the system - get rid of the pools and select teams *logically*.
Heh, what am I thinking - it's the NCAA.
And hopefully this will cause a clamor to change the system - get rid of the pools and select teams *logically*.
Heh, what am I thinking - it's the NCAA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2006, 03:46:58 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2006, 03:46:58 PM
Men's regional rankings posted
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=140
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=140
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2006, 04:07:47 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 22, 2006, 04:07:47 PM
Lincoln up to #2 in the Mid-Atlantic. Fisk and Maryville tied for 5th in the South.
I think this makes things more likely for a GSAC Pool C bid, especially if Fisk loses to Maryville in the conference championship game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 22, 2006, 05:18:20 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 22, 2006, 05:18:20 PM
Hoops Fan! I like your thinking!
I'm for Fisk losing to Maryville and going on anyway.
I'm for Fisk losing to Maryville and going on anyway.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2006, 08:23:24 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2006, 08:23:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2006, 05:02:42 PM
QOWI through games of Sunday, Feb. 19:
1-10Amherst 11.826 22-1NESCACLawrence 11.550 20-0MWCYork (Pa.) 11.043 21-2Capital ACWorcester Polytech 11.000 19-3NEWMACMississippi College 10.913 22-1ASC-EastTrinity (Texas) 10.833 16-2SCAC
Tufts 10.826 19-4 NESCACLincoln 10.813 12-4Pool B#1St. John Fisher 10.810 20-1LLAugustana 10.773 19-3CCIW
11-20Cortland State 10.609 21-2SUNYACVirginia Wesleyan 10.538 23-3ODACGordon 10.522 21-2CCC-NWilliam Paterson 10.435 17-6NJACCarnegie Mellon 10.389 14-4UAAWittenberg 10.350 17-3NCAC
Wooster 10.333 19-2 NCACLakeland 10.200 17-3LMCWidener 10.174 19-4MACCTransylvania 10.167 20-4HCAC
21-30Calvin 10.167 11-1MIAAKeene State 10.136 16-6LEC
Randolph-Macon 10.125 19-5 ODAC
Washington U. 10.111 13-5 UAA
Carroll 10.095 18-3 MWC
Occidental 10.071 11-3 SCIAC (Pool A is CLU)
Illinois Wesleyan 10.053 14-5 CCIW
Bates 10.048 16-5 NESCACBaruch 10.045 20-2SUNYACAlvernia 10.045 19-3PnAC
31-40UW-Stout 10.000 16-4WIACBaldwin-Wallace 10.000 19-4OAC
Trinity (Conn.) 10.000 15-4 NESCACCarleton 9.952 17-4MIAC
UW-Whitewater 9.950 15-5 WIAC
New Jersey 9.905 14-7 NJAC
North Central 9.895 14-5 CCIW
Hope 9.875 14-2 MIAA
UW-La Crosse 9.870 17-6 WIACUrsinus 9.826 18-5CC
41-50
St. Thomas 9.783 18-5 MIAC
Richard Stockton 9.783 15-8 NJACFisk 9.769 9-4GSAC Pool B #2
New Jersey City 9.739 16-7 NJACNebraska Wesleyan 9.714 6-1Pool B #3Puget Sound 9.706 15-2NWC
New York University 9.696 17-6 UAA
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.667 16-5 SUNYAC
Utica 9.652 18-5 E8Lake Erie 9.650 16-4AMCC
58. Maryville (Tenn.) 9.500 14-6 Pool B #4
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 22, 2006, 09:25:38 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 22, 2006, 09:25:38 PM
If Nebraska Wesleyan gets in, and their getting in means Bethany is left out, it will be a high crime, sufficient to impeach the NCAA.
Of course, neither has the remotest chance to win an NCAA game, but still...
Of course, neither has the remotest chance to win an NCAA game, but still...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dansand on February 23, 2006, 07:16:39 AM
Post by: dansand on February 23, 2006, 07:16:39 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 22, 2006, 09:25:38 PM
If Nebraska Wesleyan gets in, and their getting in means Bethany is left out, it will be a high crime, sufficient to impeach the NCAA.
Of course, neither has the remotest chance to win an NCAA game, but still...
David used the word "impeach" and Mr. Ypsi hasn't responded with a tirade about Dubya. Could someone in or near Ypsilanti please check and make sure he's okay? ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on February 23, 2006, 07:35:06 AM
Post by: wilburt on February 23, 2006, 07:35:06 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 22, 2006, 05:18:20 PM
Hoops Fan! I like your thinking!
I'm for Fisk losing to Maryville and going on anyway.
Hoops Fan! Your thinking is suspect ;)
I'm for Maryville losing to Fisk and going on anyway.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 09:28:59 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 09:28:59 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 22, 2006, 09:25:38 PM
If Nebraska Wesleyan gets in, and their getting in means Bethany is left out, it will be a high crime, sufficient to impeach the NCAA.
Of course, neither has the remotest chance to win an NCAA game, but still...
No, I think it will be at the expense of one of the GSAC teams, but still it stinks, literally, it's creating a bad smell over the whole Midwest right now, are you guys getting that in Iowa yet?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on February 23, 2006, 10:18:02 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on February 23, 2006, 10:18:02 AM
Quote from: dansand on February 23, 2006, 07:16:39 AMQuote from: David Collinge on February 22, 2006, 09:25:38 PM
If Nebraska Wesleyan gets in, and their getting in means Bethany is left out, it will be a high crime, sufficient to impeach the NCAA.
Of course, neither has the remotest chance to win an NCAA game, but still...
David used the word "impeach" and Mr. Ypsi hasn't responded with a tirade about Dubya. Could someone in or near Ypsilanti please check and make sure he's okay? ;D
Can you impeach the Anti-Christ? ::)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 23, 2006, 10:31:09 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 23, 2006, 10:31:09 AM
Of course, if Neb. Wesleyan doesn't make it, then all of this teeth gnashing and garment rendering will be for naught. Or just good practice, I suppose.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 10:58:52 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 10:58:52 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on February 23, 2006, 10:18:02 AM
Can you impeach the Anti-Christ? ::)
That would sure make the apocalypse a lot easier to handle.
Quote from: smedindy on February 23, 2006, 10:31:09 AM
Of course, if Neb. Wesleyan doesn't make it, then all of this teeth gnashing and garment rendering will be for naught. Or just good practice, I suppose.
I guess this all depends on the answer to the first question.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: d3hoops8585 on February 23, 2006, 11:29:51 AM
Post by: d3hoops8585 on February 23, 2006, 11:29:51 AM
If I understand the way the NCAA picks its pools A,B and C teams, it is through 5 different criteria. Why is everyone just stuck on teams S.O.S.I.? There are four other criteria that people should talk about.
This is the reason that Villa Julie should be a front-runner for one of the four pool B spots. VJC has a respectable SOSI and an unbelievable winning percentage at 16-4.
Equally important was that during the ranking period VJC had a win versus previously ranked Johns Hopkins University (#5 mid -atlantic), and a nail-biting loss versus ranked Catholic University (#6
Mid-Atlantic) that could have gone either way.
Let's all be honest and throw the ELEPHANT out on the table....VJC's Conference is a new conference which was created by a majority of previously independent schools, and Villa Julie's Q.O.W.I. is taking a
beating because of it.
Keep in mind that Scranton (regionally ranked this week) also lost to Chestnut Hill (NEAC opponent), and if all catagories were created equal, there is no question that VJC should be in the mix.
Villa Julie did a great job of scheduling the toughest schedule they could outside of their conference. They started out in the Pride of Maryland Tournament where they opened up with a Goucher team that had been 18-9 the year before and had lost to York College in their conference Semi's. Then they faced Washington College ( a playoff team...4th place in the Centennial Conference), they then defeated Johns Hopkins University.
They then lost a close game to a young St. Mary's team that started the year off 5-2, including a win over Averett (number one seed in there conference), who beat Maryville of Tenn this year. St. Mary's went down the tubes later, but they were playing good ball at the time.
They also hosted a tournament and invited a tough group of teams.....Regionally ranked Trinity of Connecticut......Elizabethtown (a top four team in the MAC playoffs), and Kean of New Jersey (NJAC at
.500). Its hard to schedule a tougher tourny. They lost to E-town and beat Kean.
Another non-conference game was versus Hood College who they beat by 13. That same Hood College lost to York College(#4 nationally) by 10. That same Hood team beat New Jersey City (16-7 with a 9.7 SOSI).
VJC has beaten Baptist Bible who this board had annointed one of the top five before they found out they were ineligible. They have also beaten a Keuka team that has to be talked about in the North-East.
They have put together a great year, and part was done with their point guard injured for seven games.... In which they lost 4 games. Since he has returned they are 8-1.
The Elephant is out there....
Is the GSAC, Presidents, or the NAIA DII Conf. Better than the NEAC...........?
Does the South Region deserve two teams????
Taking the ODAC out of the discussion, what has the South region done on a national stage??? Nothing to the final 4.....
The Mid-Atlantic on the other hand has a wonderful history making the final four......
CAC
York (2005 final 4)
Catholic (2001 CHAMPS)
MAC
Wilkes (98' Final 4)
E-Town (2002 runner up)
Scranton (1988 runner up)
Leb Valley (1994 champs)
CC
F&M (1996 final 4, 1991 runner up and 2000 final 4)
Washington College (1990 final four third place)
Penn. A.C.
Alvernia (1997 final 4)
And I only went back to 1988....
That is five different conferences getting some national recognition in the same region. I just do not think that the south is more deserving than the Mid-Atlantic to get two teams....Obviously with Lincoln as a shoo-in.
Sorry about the length, but I needed to show why Villa Julie should be in the tournament.
This is the reason that Villa Julie should be a front-runner for one of the four pool B spots. VJC has a respectable SOSI and an unbelievable winning percentage at 16-4.
Equally important was that during the ranking period VJC had a win versus previously ranked Johns Hopkins University (#5 mid -atlantic), and a nail-biting loss versus ranked Catholic University (#6
Mid-Atlantic) that could have gone either way.
Let's all be honest and throw the ELEPHANT out on the table....VJC's Conference is a new conference which was created by a majority of previously independent schools, and Villa Julie's Q.O.W.I. is taking a
beating because of it.
Keep in mind that Scranton (regionally ranked this week) also lost to Chestnut Hill (NEAC opponent), and if all catagories were created equal, there is no question that VJC should be in the mix.
Villa Julie did a great job of scheduling the toughest schedule they could outside of their conference. They started out in the Pride of Maryland Tournament where they opened up with a Goucher team that had been 18-9 the year before and had lost to York College in their conference Semi's. Then they faced Washington College ( a playoff team...4th place in the Centennial Conference), they then defeated Johns Hopkins University.
They then lost a close game to a young St. Mary's team that started the year off 5-2, including a win over Averett (number one seed in there conference), who beat Maryville of Tenn this year. St. Mary's went down the tubes later, but they were playing good ball at the time.
They also hosted a tournament and invited a tough group of teams.....Regionally ranked Trinity of Connecticut......Elizabethtown (a top four team in the MAC playoffs), and Kean of New Jersey (NJAC at
.500). Its hard to schedule a tougher tourny. They lost to E-town and beat Kean.
Another non-conference game was versus Hood College who they beat by 13. That same Hood College lost to York College(#4 nationally) by 10. That same Hood team beat New Jersey City (16-7 with a 9.7 SOSI).
VJC has beaten Baptist Bible who this board had annointed one of the top five before they found out they were ineligible. They have also beaten a Keuka team that has to be talked about in the North-East.
They have put together a great year, and part was done with their point guard injured for seven games.... In which they lost 4 games. Since he has returned they are 8-1.
The Elephant is out there....
Is the GSAC, Presidents, or the NAIA DII Conf. Better than the NEAC...........?
Does the South Region deserve two teams????
Taking the ODAC out of the discussion, what has the South region done on a national stage??? Nothing to the final 4.....
The Mid-Atlantic on the other hand has a wonderful history making the final four......
CAC
York (2005 final 4)
Catholic (2001 CHAMPS)
MAC
Wilkes (98' Final 4)
E-Town (2002 runner up)
Scranton (1988 runner up)
Leb Valley (1994 champs)
CC
F&M (1996 final 4, 1991 runner up and 2000 final 4)
Washington College (1990 final four third place)
Penn. A.C.
Alvernia (1997 final 4)
And I only went back to 1988....
That is five different conferences getting some national recognition in the same region. I just do not think that the south is more deserving than the Mid-Atlantic to get two teams....Obviously with Lincoln as a shoo-in.
Sorry about the length, but I needed to show why Villa Julie should be in the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 23, 2006, 11:50:29 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 23, 2006, 11:50:29 AM
But the numbers add up to the south being about Villa Julie, and the committee likes the numbers. It makes their job easier.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 01:48:29 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 01:48:29 PM
You can throw that Elephant out there all you want, but they don't look at a weak conference as reason to get in. Regional Ranking and QOWI is the primary criteria. If they can pull a regional ranking, then they have a shot. Although they will have to compete with Bethany, who also has a weak conference, good non-con competition and a better record.
Also, the NCAA doesn't count it as a good win unless the other team is regionally ranked at the end of the year. There just isn't much case there for them, although I'm sure they are at least as good as Bethany.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: D3_FAN_03 on February 23, 2006, 03:15:12 PM
Post by: D3_FAN_03 on February 23, 2006, 03:15:12 PM
Okay, I would first like to say that I usually just read all of these posts by such notables as Pat Coleman, Ralph Turner and Hoops Fan, but after seeing all of this I decided it was time for me to get in the act and talk about one of the schools in the heat of Pool B.
I follow DIII hoops religiously and have been an active reader of the site for a few years now. Pool B is always one of the most intriguing threads on the whole site, and I just wanted to give some credit to one of the schools that is being somewhat overlooked in their accomplishments.
Let me first say that I agree Lincoln should be a lock for a Pool B bid because of all they have done this year, they have proven worthy of a spot. I also think that the winner of the GSAC conference whether it be Maryville 19-6 (14-6) or Fisk 15-10 (10-4) deserve one of the bids. However, lets not over look that Fisk is only 15-10 overall and I know their 9.769 QOWI 44th overall, but still 10 overall losses and a .714 win % in region isn't earth shattering numbers. I think that Huntington QOWI is too weak to gain them a berth, outside chance if they win the GSAC.
With all of that being said I think the team that should have the best chance of locking up on of the two remaining Pool B slots is Bethany College (Bethany, WV). They are currently 21-4 (19-4) in region, just went undefeated in the PrAC conference at 12-0 (which is the first time that has been done since 1993-1994 season when Washington & Jefferson went to the Elite 8), and they are currently riding a 16 game win streak. Their QOWI is 9.3.64 (68th overall) and their in region win percentage is 19-4 (.826) which is probably the highest in the Pool B contenders. They also have some quality wins outside of their conference. Bethany blew out Keystone (20-6) and Pitt-Greensburg (16-9). Also had key wins against Muskingum who is 17-8 in the OAC at Muskingum. However, their best win of the season gets the least credit by the committee when they beat DII power Wheeling Jesuit 71-70 at a nuetral site. Wheeling Jesuit is currently ranked #5 in the East Region in DII and wins 20+ games yearly at that level. Now if you take a look at their losses they all took place early in the year and to quality teams including Carnegie Mellon 87-85 at the buzzer and to Lake Erie who is the frontrunner in the AMCC. Their only other losses came to Case-Western at their place the second game of the season followed up by a loss to Marietta in which their stud, Matt Drahos had 21 and 8 at halftime but mysteriously didn't play in the 2nd half, as a result they lost. Anyways, I just wanted to speak my peace on a team that I feel isn't getting some of the credit they deserve!
I follow DIII hoops religiously and have been an active reader of the site for a few years now. Pool B is always one of the most intriguing threads on the whole site, and I just wanted to give some credit to one of the schools that is being somewhat overlooked in their accomplishments.
Let me first say that I agree Lincoln should be a lock for a Pool B bid because of all they have done this year, they have proven worthy of a spot. I also think that the winner of the GSAC conference whether it be Maryville 19-6 (14-6) or Fisk 15-10 (10-4) deserve one of the bids. However, lets not over look that Fisk is only 15-10 overall and I know their 9.769 QOWI 44th overall, but still 10 overall losses and a .714 win % in region isn't earth shattering numbers. I think that Huntington QOWI is too weak to gain them a berth, outside chance if they win the GSAC.
With all of that being said I think the team that should have the best chance of locking up on of the two remaining Pool B slots is Bethany College (Bethany, WV). They are currently 21-4 (19-4) in region, just went undefeated in the PrAC conference at 12-0 (which is the first time that has been done since 1993-1994 season when Washington & Jefferson went to the Elite 8), and they are currently riding a 16 game win streak. Their QOWI is 9.3.64 (68th overall) and their in region win percentage is 19-4 (.826) which is probably the highest in the Pool B contenders. They also have some quality wins outside of their conference. Bethany blew out Keystone (20-6) and Pitt-Greensburg (16-9). Also had key wins against Muskingum who is 17-8 in the OAC at Muskingum. However, their best win of the season gets the least credit by the committee when they beat DII power Wheeling Jesuit 71-70 at a nuetral site. Wheeling Jesuit is currently ranked #5 in the East Region in DII and wins 20+ games yearly at that level. Now if you take a look at their losses they all took place early in the year and to quality teams including Carnegie Mellon 87-85 at the buzzer and to Lake Erie who is the frontrunner in the AMCC. Their only other losses came to Case-Western at their place the second game of the season followed up by a loss to Marietta in which their stud, Matt Drahos had 21 and 8 at halftime but mysteriously didn't play in the 2nd half, as a result they lost. Anyways, I just wanted to speak my peace on a team that I feel isn't getting some of the credit they deserve!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 03:26:45 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 03:26:45 PM
You can make the case on those facts all you want, but Fisk's 10 losses came to a lot of non-d3 schools, including one in D1, those games will not factor in.
Bethany can count them "good wins" but the NCAA doesn't unless they finished ranked. Keystone is provisional anyway.
I think Bethany will get in because of some of the numbers you've put up there, but they haven't proven to me they are better than Fisk or Maryville. That will have to come in the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 23, 2006, 03:49:50 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 23, 2006, 03:49:50 PM
i would first like to say Lincoln is a lock for the first pool B bid; however, i feel like the other three bids could be between Maryville, Fisk, Bethany, and Villa Julie. i think the winner of the Fisk, Maryville tourney game will get a bid and Bethany should get a bid over VJC if they give both Maryville and Fisk a bid. they have one common opponent, Keystone. Bethany handled Keystone fairly easily 103-89. VJC lost to Keystone 82-56. just by looking att his game it seems Bethany shoud get the nod over VJC along with their in-region winning percentages and the way Bethany is playing down the stretch with a chance to run the table in the conference and the conference tourney.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 03:51:20 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 03:51:20 PM
You forgot Nebraska Wesleyan; they are the wild card. Maybe the NCAA will count them out for not playing enough d3 games, like they did Rust all those years. Maybe they get ushered into the tournament. It's just impossible to know.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 23, 2006, 03:54:13 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 23, 2006, 03:54:13 PM
i think that if they give a bid to Nebraska Wesleyan it will take away a bid from either Maryville or Fisk. i think those three teams are fighting for two spots and Bethany and Villa Julie are battling for one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 23, 2006, 04:01:29 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 23, 2006, 04:01:29 PM
Is everyone counting Clarke out now? Or do they still have a chance? And has anyone looked at just how good Lincoln is??? What a team they have, and tell me the last time a guy has lead the nation in scoring and is 2nd in assists. That is impressive!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 04:03:11 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 23, 2006, 04:03:11 PM
Quote from: jack johnson on February 23, 2006, 03:54:13 PM
i think that if they give a bid to Nebraska Wesleyan it will take away a bid from either Maryville or Fisk. i think those three teams are fighting for two spots and Bethany and Villa Julie are battling for one.
If they give a bid to NebWes it takes a bid away from everybody.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 23, 2006, 06:32:53 PM
Post by: joe smith on February 23, 2006, 06:32:53 PM
Jack Johnson, that's an incredible stat in your previous post betwen Bethany and VJC. Keystone being the only common opponent betwen these two, if they are in fact competing for the final pool B spot, really jumps out at me. Given, every team can have a bad night but Bethany beat Keystone by 14 while VJC lost by 26. That's a 40 point difference. Wonderful stat Jack!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on February 23, 2006, 08:51:49 PM
Post by: hugenerd on February 23, 2006, 08:51:49 PM
Bethany could have two academic all-americans this year (both Drahos brothers were first team all district). The Academic All-America team is announced March 1. This has nothing to do with NCAA selections but I thought I would throw it in there. They also have like a 3rd team academic all district player as well.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2006, 11:21:25 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2006, 11:21:25 PM
Copied from the GSAC board. #5 seed LaGrange hit a buzzer beater vs #4 Piedmont in the GSAC play-in game. I have copied my post from the GSAC board.
LaGrange (in-region 6-14, .300) contributes a weaker QOWI value than a victorious Piedmont (at in-region 9-8, .529) would have to everyone that played them, and they have knocked the QOWI value that everyone received from Piedmont by 2 points per game.
Piedmont's in-region record drops from 8-8 (.500) or a 12-13/4-5 QOWI value to 8-9 (.471) or a 10-11/2-3 QOWI value.
IMHO, this hurts the chances of the GSAC from getting at least a 2nd Pool B bid, especially with the uncertainty of the Neb Wes situation.
What we have here now is a "real toy-nah-mint" in the GSAC!!! ;)
In the old Southwest Conference, the 1961 Texas Longhorns were #1 in nation going into the TCU game. TCU upset the Longhorns, destroying the Longhorns hopes for a National Championship.
In the post-game interview, Texas Head Coach Darrell Royal compared the physically out-manned TCU Horned Frogs to "cockroaches".
"They're like a bunch of cockroaches. It's not what they eat and tote off, it's what they fall into and mess up that hurts.
Congratulations to Coach Haynes and his "Cockroaches". Have a fun time messing things up! :D ;) :)
Travel safely all! :)
LaGrange (in-region 6-14, .300) contributes a weaker QOWI value than a victorious Piedmont (at in-region 9-8, .529) would have to everyone that played them, and they have knocked the QOWI value that everyone received from Piedmont by 2 points per game.
Piedmont's in-region record drops from 8-8 (.500) or a 12-13/4-5 QOWI value to 8-9 (.471) or a 10-11/2-3 QOWI value.
IMHO, this hurts the chances of the GSAC from getting at least a 2nd Pool B bid, especially with the uncertainty of the Neb Wes situation.
What we have here now is a "real toy-nah-mint" in the GSAC!!! ;)
In the old Southwest Conference, the 1961 Texas Longhorns were #1 in nation going into the TCU game. TCU upset the Longhorns, destroying the Longhorns hopes for a National Championship.
In the post-game interview, Texas Head Coach Darrell Royal compared the physically out-manned TCU Horned Frogs to "cockroaches".
"They're like a bunch of cockroaches. It's not what they eat and tote off, it's what they fall into and mess up that hurts.
Congratulations to Coach Haynes and his "Cockroaches". Have a fun time messing things up! :D ;) :)
Travel safely all! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 01:36:47 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 01:36:47 AM
d3hoops8585, I can use the NCAA's criteria and show you why VJC may or may not meet the criteria of a worthy Pool B candidate.
The Keystone, PSU-Berks and PSU-Berks losses have no impact this year. The 16-4 (.800) in-region record is very good and is one of the primary criteria. A win over Keuka pushes that to 17-4 (.810). A plus.
The QOWI is 8.895. If they defeat Keuka (a 15 QOWI point win) in the NEAC finals, I calculate that their QOWI rises 9.235. That is a plus.
However, VJC does not have a win over a ranked in-region team; only a loss to Catholic. That is a minus.
Common Regional opponents vs Lincoln--Baptist Bible 1-0 vs 1-0, a wash. You would be 2-0 vs. Keuka.
Head-to-head--n/a.
The loss that hurts VJC most is the home loss to St Mary's MD ( 4-10 conference, 6-14 conf, 9-16). That was a 0-QOWI point (72-70) loss. Winning that game boosts the QOWI by 0.381 to a potential 9.616.
Actually it looks like the NEAC tourney is good for VJC. They got a "NESCAC effect" from the "weak" teams in the NEAC, but I don't think that they would have found an in-region schedule as favorable as the NEAC.
Thanks for calling attention to VJC and the NEAC. A bid will be very good for the conference. VJC and Keuka are still on my Pool B list.
One shout out to the NEAC Commisioner and the Presidents from the NEAC-3 (Cazenovia, Keuka and D'Youville) who saw the migration of Medaille and Hillard to the AMCC and cobbled together a conference that should grow and evolve.
I don't know what ripples out from the Interstate 8 and its effects, VJC to the Capital AC to wit. But, you have a conference. VJC is the southernmost and least geographically compatible. I think that the conference will thrive with its access to Pool A. The next few years will be challenging, but you will have the Pool A, and that is a valuable commodity!
The membership is gaining provisionals Keystone and PSU-Berks and SUNY-Purchase. Some exploratory schools who may seek membership include Briarcliffe NY, Lancaster Bible College PA, PSU-Harrisburg and possibly SUNY-Cobleskill. I think that SUNY-Morrisville may favor a football conference. Nevertheless, you appear to have set a bold example for the workings of a new conference.
The Keystone, PSU-Berks and PSU-Berks losses have no impact this year. The 16-4 (.800) in-region record is very good and is one of the primary criteria. A win over Keuka pushes that to 17-4 (.810). A plus.
The QOWI is 8.895. If they defeat Keuka (a 15 QOWI point win) in the NEAC finals, I calculate that their QOWI rises 9.235. That is a plus.
However, VJC does not have a win over a ranked in-region team; only a loss to Catholic. That is a minus.
Common Regional opponents vs Lincoln--Baptist Bible 1-0 vs 1-0, a wash. You would be 2-0 vs. Keuka.
Head-to-head--n/a.
The loss that hurts VJC most is the home loss to St Mary's MD ( 4-10 conference, 6-14 conf, 9-16). That was a 0-QOWI point (72-70) loss. Winning that game boosts the QOWI by 0.381 to a potential 9.616.
Actually it looks like the NEAC tourney is good for VJC. They got a "NESCAC effect" from the "weak" teams in the NEAC, but I don't think that they would have found an in-region schedule as favorable as the NEAC.
Thanks for calling attention to VJC and the NEAC. A bid will be very good for the conference. VJC and Keuka are still on my Pool B list.
One shout out to the NEAC Commisioner and the Presidents from the NEAC-3 (Cazenovia, Keuka and D'Youville) who saw the migration of Medaille and Hillard to the AMCC and cobbled together a conference that should grow and evolve.
I don't know what ripples out from the Interstate 8 and its effects, VJC to the Capital AC to wit. But, you have a conference. VJC is the southernmost and least geographically compatible. I think that the conference will thrive with its access to Pool A. The next few years will be challenging, but you will have the Pool A, and that is a valuable commodity!
The membership is gaining provisionals Keystone and PSU-Berks and SUNY-Purchase. Some exploratory schools who may seek membership include Briarcliffe NY, Lancaster Bible College PA, PSU-Harrisburg and possibly SUNY-Cobleskill. I think that SUNY-Morrisville may favor a football conference. Nevertheless, you appear to have set a bold example for the workings of a new conference.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 24, 2006, 08:08:56 AM
Post by: joe smith on February 24, 2006, 08:08:56 AM
Bethany handles Thiel College last night 94-70 to advance to the conference championship on Saturday. They will meet Waynesburg who is 17-10. With that win, will it improve their QOWI? They currently are 22-4 and 19-4 in the region. They are also riding a 17 game win streak.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 08:18:46 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 08:18:46 AM
Quote from: joe smith on February 24, 2006, 08:08:56 AM
Bethany handles Thiel College last night 94-70 (now 3-20 in-region or an 8-point QOWI win) to advance to the conference championship on Saturday. They will meet Waynesburg who is 17-10 (11-9 in region, 11-10 in region if Bethany wins and will be a 12 point QOWI win) . With that win, will it improve their QOWI? They currently are 22-4 and 19-4 in the region. They are also riding a 17 game win streak.
Joe Smith, your assumptions are correct! The Thiel win actually brought your QOWI down. A win over Waynesburg should help your "QOWI" Index by about 0.05 points. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 24, 2006, 09:02:03 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 24, 2006, 09:02:03 AM
Doesn't the I in QOWI stand for "index".
So it's the Quality of Win Index Index? ;D
Signed,
Department of Redundancy Department
So it's the Quality of Win Index Index? ;D
Signed,
Department of Redundancy Department
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: D3_FAN_03 on February 24, 2006, 09:14:21 AM
Post by: D3_FAN_03 on February 24, 2006, 09:14:21 AM
With all due respect to Villa Julie and taking nothing away from their good season. There conference is a total joke. Bethany might not be in the strongest conference in the nation, but its definitely a stronger conference then Villa Julie's. Bethany's QOWI is currently 9.311, 19-4 in region, 22-4 overall, and are riding a 17 game win streak. If they are able to beat Waynesburg 16-10 (11-9 in region) on Saturday in the PrAC championship their QOWI would go up to 9.410 and would have 20 region wins and the highest "in region" win percentage of any Pool B squad in the nation.
The only decent teams in Villa Julie's conference are Keystone who is a provisional member and Baptist Bible who made themselves ineligible for the NCAA DIII Tourney by making themselves eligible for the Christian Tourney. Plus the only common opponent between Villa Julie and Bethany is Keystone and as stated before Bethany was up 20+ on Keystone before they cleared the bench and VJ lost to Keystone by 26. Granted the PrAC only has two teams with winning records outside the conference, but they also had teams in Westminster and Washington & Jefferson that play really good non-conference schedules and are proverbial underachievers year in and year out. It's not that the conference lacks talent. With all of this being said, I'm not sure that VJ gives much of a challenge to Bethany in the Pool B ranks.
The only decent teams in Villa Julie's conference are Keystone who is a provisional member and Baptist Bible who made themselves ineligible for the NCAA DIII Tourney by making themselves eligible for the Christian Tourney. Plus the only common opponent between Villa Julie and Bethany is Keystone and as stated before Bethany was up 20+ on Keystone before they cleared the bench and VJ lost to Keystone by 26. Granted the PrAC only has two teams with winning records outside the conference, but they also had teams in Westminster and Washington & Jefferson that play really good non-conference schedules and are proverbial underachievers year in and year out. It's not that the conference lacks talent. With all of this being said, I'm not sure that VJ gives much of a challenge to Bethany in the Pool B ranks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 09:42:43 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 09:42:43 AM
Quote from: D3_FAN_03 on February 24, 2006, 09:14:21 AM
With all due respect to Villa Julie and taking nothing away from their good season. There conference is a total joke. ...
D3 Fan 03, respectfully, that is why we are evaluating them in the group of 41 independent teams that the NCAA has labeled "Pool B".
The NCAA is not looking at their conference. They are looking at the individual schools and then comparing them amongst the "ppol B" cohort for the access to the NCAA tournament at the mathenmatically determined 1:9.22 access ratio. The Handbook outlines the process very clearly.
As I have stated, the Pools have driven the member institutions inot conferences. In 2006-07, the NEAC will be a Pool A and on their way to an 11-member conference. Using the access ratio, they will have contributed about 1.78 schools to the numerator that contribute to Pool C.
After the carnage in the football that the Pres AC left in trying to accelerate the Thomas More to full member and Pool A status for the Pres AC in all sports, The Pres AC will have its Pool A bid in 2007-08. They will leave Bumbledom.
Because many schools use basketball as the sport to fulfill the "sport in every season" requirement of the NCAA, there are many schools fiedling weaker than usual squads. The Pool B's in other spriots are quite competitive, e.g., the Norhtwest Conference and Pres AC in football, the Captial AC in baseball.
If Neb Wes gets into the tourney, I believe that one team of my Pool B fairness" list was left home.
I believe that the "fair" composition of Pool B should be: Lincoln, Bethany, the NEAC winner-VJC or Keuka and the GSAC winner-Maryville or Fisk or Huntingdon.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 09:48:35 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 09:48:35 AM
I think actually Keuka has more to gain from this upcoming game that Villa Julie does. Keuka is in the weaker region, which makes their record look that much better than others. A win over Villa Julie could propel them into a solid position for Pool B.
Teams still in the hunt:
Lincoln
Nebraska Wesleyan
Bethany
Fisk
Maryville
Villa Julie
Keuka
Chapman
St. Joe's
The best part is that outside of Lincoln, I can't be sure about any of the others getting in. We've got eight teams essentially fighting for 3 spot. Granted those last three squads are really long shots, but anything is possible when the NCAA is involved.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 11:19:58 AM
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 11:19:58 AM
Let's just make this easy...put in CHAPMAN to play with Claremont and Pool C bid Occidental....c'mon NCAA, think of the cost savings....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 11:24:39 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 11:24:39 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on February 24, 2006, 11:19:58 AM
Let's just make this easy...put in CHAPMAN to play with Claremont and Pool C bid Occidental....c'mon NCAA, think of the cost savings....
I wouldn't put it past them, but they couldn't justify a bye to any of those teams could they?
The NWC winner would have to fly somewhere anyway.
I am still worried about Chapman for exactly that reason though. Give UPS a bye and put CMS and Chpaman together in the first round. Stranger and less fair things have happened before.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 11:48:20 AM
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 11:48:20 AM
In addition, Chapman does boast a Josten finalist on their team...I think I am beginning to see the signs of a Pool B bid....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 11:57:43 AM
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 11:57:43 AM
With a win against Aurora saturday night, Clarke College of Dubuque, IA will have just a better chance than half the teams on your list hoops fan. With that win they will be the highest ranked Pool B team in the midwest, which gets them to the second stage of the selection.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 12:05:00 PM
Yeah, I did forget Clarke. However, they won't be ranked in the Midwest.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 12:08:53 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 12:08:53 PM
Here are my odds on getting a bid:
Lincoln 1:10
NebWes OFF
Bethany 2:1
Fisk 2:1
Maryville 4:1
Villa Julie 6:1
Clarke 8:1
Chapman 10:1
Keuka 50:1
St Joe's 100:1
These might change depending on games this weekend. Obviously a Maryville win over Fisk would drastically improve their chances. Results from the Indy tournaments could shake things up as well.
Lincoln 1:10
NebWes OFF
Bethany 2:1
Fisk 2:1
Maryville 4:1
Villa Julie 6:1
Clarke 8:1
Chapman 10:1
Keuka 50:1
St Joe's 100:1
These might change depending on games this weekend. Obviously a Maryville win over Fisk would drastically improve their chances. Results from the Indy tournaments could shake things up as well.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2006, 12:14:17 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2006, 12:14:17 PM
Men's QOWI through Thursday's games.
I'm a little concerned there may be conference tourney games we have missed getting onto the schedule. Please let me know if that's the case.
1-10
Amherst 12.000 22-1
Lawrence 11.550 20-0
Worcester Polytech 11.091 19-3
Tufts 11.000 19-4
Mississippi College 10.913 22-1
Augustana 10.864 19-3
Trinity (Texas) 10.833 16-2
Lincoln 10.813 12-4
St. John Fisher 10.810 20-1
Cortland State 10.667 22-2
11-20
Gordon 10.560 22-3
Virginia Wesleyan 10.481 24-3
York (Pa.) 10.400 22-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.389 14-4
William Paterson 10.250 18-6
Bates 10.238 16-5
Wittenberg 10.238 18-3
Wooster 10.227 20-2
Washington U. 10.211 14-5
Baruch 10.174 21-2
21-30
UW-Whitewater 10.136 17-5
Carleton 10.136 18-4
Keene State 10.130 17-6
Carroll 10.095 18-3
Transylvania 10.080 21-4
Illinois Wesleyan 10.053 14-5
Calvin 10.000 12-1
UW-Stout 10.000 18-4
Widener 10.000 19-4
Alvernia 9.958 21-3
31-40
Lakeland 9.905 17-4
North Central 9.895 14-5
Trinity (Conn.) 9.895 15-4
UW-La Crosse 9.880 18-7
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.870 18-5
Randolph-Macon 9.840 19-6
Ursinus 9.826 18-5
St. Thomas 9.792 19-5
Hope 9.765 15-2
Occidental 9.750 12-4
41-50
Baldwin-Wallace 9.750 20-4
Fisk 9.714 10-4
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.714 6-1
Puget Sound 9.706 15-2
New York University 9.696 17-6
Utica 9.667 19-5
Whitworth 9.652 18-5
MIT 9.652 16-7
Salem State 9.583 18-6
Lake Erie 9.550 16-4
51-60
Williams 9.542 16-8
Rhode Island College 9.480 17-8
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.478 15-8
Westfield State 9.478 16-7
Colby-Sawyer 9.458 16-8
New Jersey 9.455 14-8
Rochester 9.450 13-7
Catholic 9.435 18-5
Bowdoin 9.429 13-8
Albright 9.409 14-8
61-70
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.400 15-5
Howard Payne 9.391 17-6
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.391 17-6
Pomona-Pitzer 9.353 13-4
Messiah 9.348 16-7
Endicott 9.333 16-8
Mount St. Mary 9.333 18-6
Manhattanville 9.320 17-8
Bethany 9.304 19-4
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.300 14-6
71-80
UW-Stevens Point 9.292 15-9
Johns Hopkins 9.286 15-6
Wartburg 9.273 17-5
Albion 9.267 12-3
Hamilton 9.250 16-4
Scranton 9.250 18-6
Richard Stockton 9.208 15-9
Willamette 9.200 16-4
Emmanuel 9.200 19-6
New Jersey City 9.167 16-8
81-90
Coe 9.143 15-6
Hanover 9.143 13-8
Elmhurst 9.143 14-7
UW-Oshkosh 9.136 13-9
McMurry 9.136 16-6
Franklin 9.130 17-6
Plymouth State 9.115 16-10
Centre 9.100 13-7
Oswego State 9.083 18-6
Ohio Northern 9.048 16-5
91-100
Norwich 9.042 19-5
Ohio Wesleyan 9.000 17-6
Elms 9.000 18-4
Rutgers-Newark 9.000 17-9
Elizabethtown 9.000 13-9
Ramapo 8.957 14-9
Chicago 8.947 11-8
Wilmington 8.923 20-6
Gettysburg 8.913 15-8
Coast Guard 8.913 16-7
101-110
Brockport State 8.905 12-9
Aurora 8.900 13-7
Averett 8.900 15-5
Mass-Boston 8.870 14-9
Milwaukee Engineering 8.857 14-7
Villa Julie 8.850 16-4
Southwestern 8.850 14-6
Gustavus Adolphus 8.833 16-8
Pitt-Greensburg 8.762 14-7
Clarke 8.714 14-7
111-120
Baptist Bible 8.706 13-4 INELIGIBLE
Brandeis 8.696 13-10
Springfield 8.667 10-14
Mass-Dartmouth 8.636 12-10
Christopher Newport 8.615 9-4
Plattsburgh State 8.609 14-9
Union 8.600 13-7
Wilkes 8.600 13-7
SUNYIT 8.591 12-10
Bridgewater State 8.591 13-9
I'm a little concerned there may be conference tourney games we have missed getting onto the schedule. Please let me know if that's the case.
1-10
Amherst 12.000 22-1
Lawrence 11.550 20-0
Worcester Polytech 11.091 19-3
Tufts 11.000 19-4
Mississippi College 10.913 22-1
Augustana 10.864 19-3
Trinity (Texas) 10.833 16-2
Lincoln 10.813 12-4
St. John Fisher 10.810 20-1
Cortland State 10.667 22-2
11-20
Gordon 10.560 22-3
Virginia Wesleyan 10.481 24-3
York (Pa.) 10.400 22-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.389 14-4
William Paterson 10.250 18-6
Bates 10.238 16-5
Wittenberg 10.238 18-3
Wooster 10.227 20-2
Washington U. 10.211 14-5
Baruch 10.174 21-2
21-30
UW-Whitewater 10.136 17-5
Carleton 10.136 18-4
Keene State 10.130 17-6
Carroll 10.095 18-3
Transylvania 10.080 21-4
Illinois Wesleyan 10.053 14-5
Calvin 10.000 12-1
UW-Stout 10.000 18-4
Widener 10.000 19-4
Alvernia 9.958 21-3
31-40
Lakeland 9.905 17-4
North Central 9.895 14-5
Trinity (Conn.) 9.895 15-4
UW-La Crosse 9.880 18-7
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.870 18-5
Randolph-Macon 9.840 19-6
Ursinus 9.826 18-5
St. Thomas 9.792 19-5
Hope 9.765 15-2
Occidental 9.750 12-4
41-50
Baldwin-Wallace 9.750 20-4
Fisk 9.714 10-4
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.714 6-1
Puget Sound 9.706 15-2
New York University 9.696 17-6
Utica 9.667 19-5
Whitworth 9.652 18-5
MIT 9.652 16-7
Salem State 9.583 18-6
Lake Erie 9.550 16-4
51-60
Williams 9.542 16-8
Rhode Island College 9.480 17-8
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.478 15-8
Westfield State 9.478 16-7
Colby-Sawyer 9.458 16-8
New Jersey 9.455 14-8
Rochester 9.450 13-7
Catholic 9.435 18-5
Bowdoin 9.429 13-8
Albright 9.409 14-8
61-70
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.400 15-5
Howard Payne 9.391 17-6
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.391 17-6
Pomona-Pitzer 9.353 13-4
Messiah 9.348 16-7
Endicott 9.333 16-8
Mount St. Mary 9.333 18-6
Manhattanville 9.320 17-8
Bethany 9.304 19-4
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.300 14-6
71-80
UW-Stevens Point 9.292 15-9
Johns Hopkins 9.286 15-6
Wartburg 9.273 17-5
Albion 9.267 12-3
Hamilton 9.250 16-4
Scranton 9.250 18-6
Richard Stockton 9.208 15-9
Willamette 9.200 16-4
Emmanuel 9.200 19-6
New Jersey City 9.167 16-8
81-90
Coe 9.143 15-6
Hanover 9.143 13-8
Elmhurst 9.143 14-7
UW-Oshkosh 9.136 13-9
McMurry 9.136 16-6
Franklin 9.130 17-6
Plymouth State 9.115 16-10
Centre 9.100 13-7
Oswego State 9.083 18-6
Ohio Northern 9.048 16-5
91-100
Norwich 9.042 19-5
Ohio Wesleyan 9.000 17-6
Elms 9.000 18-4
Rutgers-Newark 9.000 17-9
Elizabethtown 9.000 13-9
Ramapo 8.957 14-9
Chicago 8.947 11-8
Wilmington 8.923 20-6
Gettysburg 8.913 15-8
Coast Guard 8.913 16-7
101-110
Brockport State 8.905 12-9
Aurora 8.900 13-7
Averett 8.900 15-5
Mass-Boston 8.870 14-9
Milwaukee Engineering 8.857 14-7
Villa Julie 8.850 16-4
Southwestern 8.850 14-6
Gustavus Adolphus 8.833 16-8
Pitt-Greensburg 8.762 14-7
Clarke 8.714 14-7
111-120
Baptist Bible 8.706 13-4 INELIGIBLE
Brandeis 8.696 13-10
Springfield 8.667 10-14
Mass-Dartmouth 8.636 12-10
Christopher Newport 8.615 9-4
Plattsburgh State 8.609 14-9
Union 8.600 13-7
Wilkes 8.600 13-7
SUNYIT 8.591 12-10
Bridgewater State 8.591 13-9
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 24, 2006, 01:39:27 PM
Post by: joe smith on February 24, 2006, 01:39:27 PM
Bethany College also sports a Josten finalist and could've had two. Matt Drahos is probably the favorite to recieve this award. 5 time PrAC Player of the week. 2 time ECAC player of the week. 1900+ points in his career ( 23.5 this year). 900+ rebounds (8.4 this year). d3hoops team of the week. PrAC Player of the year. 1st team al -academicl in the region. Oh yeah, pick up the next issue of Sports Illustrated and Matt and his brother on on the "Faces of the Crowd." Not a bad year so far!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 01:41:15 PM
Post by: TeeDub on February 24, 2006, 01:41:15 PM
Quote from: joe smith on February 24, 2006, 01:39:27 PM
Bethany College also sports a Josten finalist and could've had two. Matt Drahos is probably the favorite to recieve this award. 5 time PrAC Player of the week. 2 time ECAC player of the week. 1900+ points in his career ( 23.5 this year). 900+ rebounds (8.4 this year). d3hoops team of the week. PrAC Player of the year. 1st team al -academicl in the region. Oh yeah, pick up the next issue of Sports Illustrated and Matt and his brother on on the "Faces of the Crowd." Not a bad year so far!!
Is that all you got? ;)
just kidding, pretty impressive resume....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 24, 2006, 01:56:30 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 24, 2006, 01:56:30 PM
here is my analysis on the teams in the hunt for a pool B bid (with lincoln being a lock):
Fisk QOWI 9.714 (tied-42), 10-4 in region (.714); 19-6 overall
they have a win over Randolph-Macon and split with Maryville; two losses that hurt them are Huntingdon and LaGrange. they are 5-5 in their last 10 and can possibly earn two more wins in their tourney with a possibly key championship against Maryville.
Nebraska Wesleyan QOWI 9.714 (tied-42), 6-1 in region (.857); 9-16 overall
no real key victories that i saw. they did take Whitworth to OT. they are 2-8 in their last 10 and may possibly have a match up with Chapman in their tourney. they do play a limited in region schedule but seems to have no affect on their ncaa tourney consideration if i took that the right way from previous posts.
Bethany QOWI 9.304 (69), 19-4 in region (.826); 22-4 overall
key wins at Muskingum (15-8 in region and OAC member), Keystone (20-6 overall with wins ove VJC, Baptist Bible, and Keuka), also DII power Wheeling Jesuit (has no affect on their consideration for the tourney but does show they can play at an elevated level this year; whereas last year they lost to DII power West Liberty and went on to get blown out in the first round), have key losses to a poor Marietta team and an average Case Western team. they did take CMU to the buzzer losing by 2 and have a 17 game win streak entering their conference championship. even though they have a weak conference they do have a chance to run the table (14-0) which is very hard to do at any level no matter what level of competition you play. they also average margin of victory in their conference of 20+. they also have a Jostens Finalist in Matt Drahos.
Maryville(TN) QOWI 9.300 (70), 14-6 in region (.700); 19-6 overall
they split with Fisk and Oglethorpe. key losses to Huntingdon and Sewanee. they are 6-4 in their last 10. can possibly get two more wins in their conf. tourney and may match up against Fisk in the championship.
Villa Julie QOWI 8.850 (106), 16-4 in region (.800); 18-7 overall
have a win over Keuka and at Hood, also losses to Catholic, Keystone, and St. Mary's. they are 8-2 in their last 10 and plays Keuka tonight.
Clarke QOWI 8.714 (110), 14-7 in region (.667); 16-10 overall
split with Aurora, win over UW-Stevens Point, key loss to Marian and are 8-2 in their last 10. they play Aurora in the conf. championship on saturday.
Chapman QOWI ??? (not in top 120), 8-4 in region (.667); 18-7 overall
have two big wins over Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and also have a Jostens finalist in Zach Wheatley. they are 9-1 in their last 10 and may face Neb. Wes. in their tourney.
Keuka QOWI ??? (not in top 120), 13-4 in region (.765); 16-8 overall
win over Baptist Bible but key losses to Keystone (twice) and Villa Julie. plays VJC tonight.
the way i look at it is Lincoln is in and there are a couple of other ways the commitee could look at things. i don't think Keuka has much of a chance even if they do beat VJC tonight. they have three losses to teams Bethany beat by an average of 32 points. if VJC wins tonight there hopes are still alive pending a Bethany loss on saturday. so the loser of tonights VJC/Keuka game is pretty much out of the running with the winner still on the outside looking in. if Clarke losses to Aurora on saturday they are done, but a win puts them in contention with the Nebraska Wesleyan/Chapman winner if they meet in the tourney.
here is one prediction
Pool B #1: Lincoln
Pool B #2: Fisk/Maryville winner if they meet (or the winner of the GSAC tourney)
Pool B #3: Bethany (assuming they win their conference championship on saturday)
Pool B #4: Clarke (with a win over Aurora in the NIIC championship saturday)
prediction two
Pool B #1: Lincoln
Pool B #2: Fisk
Pool B #3: Maryville
Pool B #4: Bethany
*assuming Bethany wins and Fisk and Maryville meet in the GSAC championship with a Maryville victory and maybe even a Clarke loss
prediction three
Pool B #1: Lincoln
Pool B #2: Maryville/Fisk winner
Pool B #3: Bethany
Pool B #4: Nebraska Wesleyan (assuming they face and beat Chapman; and Clarke loses to Aurora
i think for VJC or Keuka to get in or be considered they need a Bethany loss. For Neb. Wes. to get in they a Clarke loss and need to face and beat Chapman. Chapman definetely needs a Clarke loss and a win over Neb. Wes. Clarke needs to win and probably a Maryville loss to get in, and hope the commitee doesn't bring two GSAC teams in. Bethany needs a win. Fisk and Maryville both need the GSAC crown to be a lock (the other may get left behind).
all responses to this are encouraged...let me know if you think differently or have any other situations that i might have missed.
Fisk QOWI 9.714 (tied-42), 10-4 in region (.714); 19-6 overall
they have a win over Randolph-Macon and split with Maryville; two losses that hurt them are Huntingdon and LaGrange. they are 5-5 in their last 10 and can possibly earn two more wins in their tourney with a possibly key championship against Maryville.
Nebraska Wesleyan QOWI 9.714 (tied-42), 6-1 in region (.857); 9-16 overall
no real key victories that i saw. they did take Whitworth to OT. they are 2-8 in their last 10 and may possibly have a match up with Chapman in their tourney. they do play a limited in region schedule but seems to have no affect on their ncaa tourney consideration if i took that the right way from previous posts.
Bethany QOWI 9.304 (69), 19-4 in region (.826); 22-4 overall
key wins at Muskingum (15-8 in region and OAC member), Keystone (20-6 overall with wins ove VJC, Baptist Bible, and Keuka), also DII power Wheeling Jesuit (has no affect on their consideration for the tourney but does show they can play at an elevated level this year; whereas last year they lost to DII power West Liberty and went on to get blown out in the first round), have key losses to a poor Marietta team and an average Case Western team. they did take CMU to the buzzer losing by 2 and have a 17 game win streak entering their conference championship. even though they have a weak conference they do have a chance to run the table (14-0) which is very hard to do at any level no matter what level of competition you play. they also average margin of victory in their conference of 20+. they also have a Jostens Finalist in Matt Drahos.
Maryville(TN) QOWI 9.300 (70), 14-6 in region (.700); 19-6 overall
they split with Fisk and Oglethorpe. key losses to Huntingdon and Sewanee. they are 6-4 in their last 10. can possibly get two more wins in their conf. tourney and may match up against Fisk in the championship.
Villa Julie QOWI 8.850 (106), 16-4 in region (.800); 18-7 overall
have a win over Keuka and at Hood, also losses to Catholic, Keystone, and St. Mary's. they are 8-2 in their last 10 and plays Keuka tonight.
Clarke QOWI 8.714 (110), 14-7 in region (.667); 16-10 overall
split with Aurora, win over UW-Stevens Point, key loss to Marian and are 8-2 in their last 10. they play Aurora in the conf. championship on saturday.
Chapman QOWI ??? (not in top 120), 8-4 in region (.667); 18-7 overall
have two big wins over Claremont-Mudd-Scripps and also have a Jostens finalist in Zach Wheatley. they are 9-1 in their last 10 and may face Neb. Wes. in their tourney.
Keuka QOWI ??? (not in top 120), 13-4 in region (.765); 16-8 overall
win over Baptist Bible but key losses to Keystone (twice) and Villa Julie. plays VJC tonight.
the way i look at it is Lincoln is in and there are a couple of other ways the commitee could look at things. i don't think Keuka has much of a chance even if they do beat VJC tonight. they have three losses to teams Bethany beat by an average of 32 points. if VJC wins tonight there hopes are still alive pending a Bethany loss on saturday. so the loser of tonights VJC/Keuka game is pretty much out of the running with the winner still on the outside looking in. if Clarke losses to Aurora on saturday they are done, but a win puts them in contention with the Nebraska Wesleyan/Chapman winner if they meet in the tourney.
here is one prediction
Pool B #1: Lincoln
Pool B #2: Fisk/Maryville winner if they meet (or the winner of the GSAC tourney)
Pool B #3: Bethany (assuming they win their conference championship on saturday)
Pool B #4: Clarke (with a win over Aurora in the NIIC championship saturday)
prediction two
Pool B #1: Lincoln
Pool B #2: Fisk
Pool B #3: Maryville
Pool B #4: Bethany
*assuming Bethany wins and Fisk and Maryville meet in the GSAC championship with a Maryville victory and maybe even a Clarke loss
prediction three
Pool B #1: Lincoln
Pool B #2: Maryville/Fisk winner
Pool B #3: Bethany
Pool B #4: Nebraska Wesleyan (assuming they face and beat Chapman; and Clarke loses to Aurora
i think for VJC or Keuka to get in or be considered they need a Bethany loss. For Neb. Wes. to get in they a Clarke loss and need to face and beat Chapman. Chapman definetely needs a Clarke loss and a win over Neb. Wes. Clarke needs to win and probably a Maryville loss to get in, and hope the commitee doesn't bring two GSAC teams in. Bethany needs a win. Fisk and Maryville both need the GSAC crown to be a lock (the other may get left behind).
all responses to this are encouraged...let me know if you think differently or have any other situations that i might have missed.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 01:59:05 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 01:59:05 PM
I think prediction three is probably the most likely scenario, as sad as that may be. Prediciton two would be what I root for, but I'm not sure it will happen that way.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 24, 2006, 02:06:40 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 24, 2006, 02:06:40 PM
it may be possible for prediction two to be correct, especially with a Clarke loss. however, even with a Clarke win it could still show correct as long as Maryville defeats Fisk. that would most likely put the final bid between Bethany and Clarke
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 02:40:54 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 02:40:54 PM
Quote from: jack johnson on February 24, 2006, 02:06:40 PM
it may be possible for prediction two to be correct, especially with a Clarke loss. however, even with a Clarke win it could still show correct as long as Maryville defeats Fisk. that would most likely put the final bid between Bethany and Clarke
Very astute.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 02:50:36 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 02:50:36 PM
I think Jack's prediction number 1 is the most likely. There is really no need to worry about a Clarke loss scenario, it's simply not going to happen. Not at home.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 02:55:57 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 02:55:57 PM
I just can't see Clarke getting in to this thing. It just doesn't make sense.
Although, that probably means the NCAA will be all over it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: lilphil on February 24, 2006, 02:59:57 PM
Post by: lilphil on February 24, 2006, 02:59:57 PM
If you are considering Clarke, why would you not consider Aurora with a win over Clarke?? They already have a better QOWI
Aurora 8.9 #102
Clarke 8.714 #110
and a win over Clarke in the championship would give them a better regional winning percentage at:
Aurora .667
Clarke .636
I do believe both are a long shot still but if Clarke is a contender for a pool B spot with a win Saturday why wouldn't Aurora be if the pull off the 'upset'??
Aurora 8.9 #102
Clarke 8.714 #110
and a win over Clarke in the championship would give them a better regional winning percentage at:
Aurora .667
Clarke .636
I do believe both are a long shot still but if Clarke is a contender for a pool B spot with a win Saturday why wouldn't Aurora be if the pull off the 'upset'??
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 03:07:27 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 03:07:27 PM
that is very true, i myself was wondering why AU wasn't getting a mention ....but like i stated before, we dont' have to worry about a clarke loss, IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
but good research lilphil...i've wanted to say something...maybe the fact that Clarke won the NIIC conference already, maybe that is why they aren't getting any talk.
but good research lilphil...i've wanted to say something...maybe the fact that Clarke won the NIIC conference already, maybe that is why they aren't getting any talk.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 03:36:24 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2006, 03:36:24 PM
Aurora didn't get mentioned because neither team is going to get in!! Even with a loss, both Maryville and Fisk would have the same regional winning percentage as Aurora or Clarke and higher QOWI numbers.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: lilphil on February 24, 2006, 03:45:22 PM
Post by: lilphil on February 24, 2006, 03:45:22 PM
I pretty much thought that neither team had a chance, that is why I stated both are still a long shot. Just wanted to see why Clarke was still being mentioned in here if Aurora wasn't, and you pretty much summed it up Hoops Fan!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 07:31:21 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 24, 2006, 07:31:21 PM
sounds like lilphil's just a little bitter because clarke won the conference this year and aurora has absolutely no chance of making the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 24, 2006, 09:27:02 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 24, 2006, 09:27:02 PM
well Fisk goes down to Huntingdon...do you think this takes them out of consideration and puts Maryville in the drivers seat to control their own destiny, and does Huntingdon now have a chance to sneak in if they can win the GSAC?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 10:24:27 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2006, 10:24:27 PM
Jack, I have been out on a limb with my suggesting that Huntingdon could get a Pool B bid if they won the Tourney.
Pool B is a real mess this year. The Neb Wesleyan situation has raised much doubt.
Let's say that Huntingdon does defeat Maryville.
They have a 2-1 record against Maryville.
They will have a record of 4-2 against in-region ranked opponents from previous polls, vesus 3-3 for Maryville.
They will have an identical record with Maryville among common opponents' at 9-4.
I think that the Hawks can make a good case for a Pool B bid.
Pool B is a real mess this year. The Neb Wesleyan situation has raised much doubt.
Let's say that Huntingdon does defeat Maryville.
They have a 2-1 record against Maryville.
They will have a record of 4-2 against in-region ranked opponents from previous polls, vesus 3-3 for Maryville.
They will have an identical record with Maryville among common opponents' at 9-4.
I think that the Hawks can make a good case for a Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 24, 2006, 11:00:22 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 24, 2006, 11:00:22 PM
Lincoln beats Mitchell 116-82 with Kyle Myrick leading the way with 30 pts. and 14 assists. Sami Wylie finished with 25 pts, Tyreek Byard had 13 pts, while Darryl White finished with 8 blocks and Thomas Hickson had 11 boards.
Lincoln plays St. Joseph (ME) tomorrow who beat Newbury 67-62 for the championship game tomorrow.
Lincoln plays St. Joseph (ME) tomorrow who beat Newbury 67-62 for the championship game tomorrow.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 24, 2006, 11:08:48 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 24, 2006, 11:08:48 PM
Again, except for Lincoln, no one REALLY wants a pool B bid, but three other teams must take them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 24, 2006, 11:19:01 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 24, 2006, 11:19:01 PM
I don't think you can say that Bethany doesn't want a Pool B bid. I mean, they've won 17 games in a row. They're doing the best they can with what they have to work with (i.e. schedule).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 24, 2006, 11:30:50 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 24, 2006, 11:30:50 PM
Huntingdon REALLY wants a Pool B bid and might just get one unless Maryville can figure out ways to score points against them. Nobody else has, including Fisk, who is a really good team that (usually) can score. And the game is at Huntingdon. And Maryville still does not have its leading scorer and their regular point guard is in a funk lately.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 25, 2006, 12:49:03 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 25, 2006, 12:49:03 AM
Well, yeah, but it seems that everyone who rises to the second spot tumbles down...
(Also, I was being teh funny...)
(Also, I was being teh funny...)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 25, 2006, 01:05:55 AM
Post by: jack johnson on February 25, 2006, 01:05:55 AM
as of right now it looks like it sould be Lincoln, Bethany, the GSAC champion (Maryville or Huntingdon), and either Nebraska Wesleyan/Chapman/NIIC Champion...with the NIIC champion i think getting the nod
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 25, 2006, 07:16:56 AM
Post by: joe smith on February 25, 2006, 07:16:56 AM
I think Lincoln and Bethany are both locks with 4 or 5 teams fighting for the last 2 spots
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2006, 10:39:39 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2006, 10:39:39 AM
If four West Region Pool B teams held a tournament and nobody reported the scores, would it count? :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2006, 10:42:41 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2006, 10:42:41 AM
Updated QOWI through games of Friday, Feb. 24:
Does not include unreported scores of Chapman, UC Santa Cruz, Nebraska Wesleyan and Colorado College.
1-10
Amherst 12.000 22-1
Lawrence 11.571 21-0
Worcester Polytech 11.091 19-3
Tufts 11.000 19-4
St. John Fisher 10.864 21-1
Mississippi College 10.833 23-1
Lincoln 10.813 12-4
Gordon 10.560 22-3
Trinity (Texas) 10.526 16-3
Virginia Wesleyan 10.481 24-3
11-20
Augustana 10.478 19-4
Wittenberg 10.455 19-3
Cortland State 10.440 22-3
York (Pa.) 10.400 22-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.389 14-4
William Paterson 10.250 18-6
Bates 10.238 16-5
Transylvania 10.231 22-4
Carroll 10.227 19-3
Wooster 10.217 21-2
21-30
Washington U. 10.211 14-5
UW-Whitewater 10.136 17-5
Carleton 10.136 18-4
Illinois Wesleyan 10.100 15-5
Widener 10.083 20-4
Keene State 10.042 18-6
UW-Stout 10.000 18-4
Calvin 10.000 13-1
Baruch 9.958 21-3
Alvernia 9.958 21-3
31-40
Hope 9.944 16-2
Baldwin-Wallace 9.920 21-4
Lakeland 9.905 17-4
Trinity (Conn.) 9.895 15-4
UW-La Crosse 9.880 18-7
Utica 9.880 20-5
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.870 18-5
North Central 9.850 15-5
Randolph-Macon 9.840 19-6
Ursinus 9.826 18-5
41-50
St. Thomas 9.792 19-5
Occidental 9.750 12-4
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.714 6-1
Puget Sound 9.706 15-2
New York University 9.696 17-6
Whitworth 9.652 18-5
Williams 9.625 16-8
Lake Erie 9.571 17-4
MIT 9.565 16-7
Hamilton 9.476 17-4
51-60
Colby-Sawyer 9.458 16-8
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.458 18-6
New Jersey 9.455 14-8
Rochester 9.450 13-7
Catholic 9.435 18-5
Bowdoin 9.429 13-8
Albright 9.409 14-8
Fisk 9.400 10-5
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.400 15-5
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.391 15-8
61-70
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.381 15-6
Pomona-Pitzer 9.353 13-4
Messiah 9.348 16-7
Endicott 9.333 16-8
Mount St. Mary 9.333 18-6
Howard Payne 9.333 18-6
Manhattanville 9.320 17-8
Salem State 9.320 18-7
Rhode Island College 9.308 17-9
Bethany 9.304 19-4
71-80
UW-Stevens Point 9.292 15-9
Johns Hopkins 9.286 15-6
Wartburg 9.273 17-5
Scranton 9.250 18-6
Ohio Northern 9.227 17-5
McMurry 9.217 17-6
Franklin 9.208 18-6
Richard Stockton 9.208 15-9
Emmanuel 9.200 19-6
Willamette 9.200 16-4
81-90
Elms 9.174 19-4
Westfield State 9.167 16-8
New Jersey City 9.167 16-8
Coe 9.143 15-6
Villa Julie 9.143 17-4
UW-Oshkosh 9.136 13-9
Albion 9.125 12-4
Centre 9.095 14-7
Southwestern 9.048 15-6
Elmhurst 9.045 14-8
91-100
Norwich 9.042 19-5
Averett 9.000 16-5
Rutgers-Newark 9.000 17-9
Plymouth State 8.962 16-10
Ramapo 8.957 14-9
Hanover 8.952 13-8
Chicago 8.947 11-8
Oswego State 8.920 18-7
Ohio Wesleyan 8.917 17-7
Elizabethtown 8.913 13-10
101-110
Gettysburg 8.913 15-8
Brockport State 8.905 12-9
Aurora 8.900 13-7
Plattsburgh State 8.875 15-9
Mass-Boston 8.875 15-9
SUNYIT 8.870 13-10
Pitt-Greensburg 8.864 15-7
Milwaukee Engineering 8.857 14-7
Wilmington 8.852 20-7
Gustavus Adolphus 8.833 16-8
111-120
Coast Guard 8.826 16-7
Union 8.810 14-7
Bridgewater State 8.783 14-9
Christopher Newport 8.714 10-4
Clarke 8.714 14-7
Baptist Bible 8.706 13-4
Brandeis 8.696 13-10
Springfield 8.667 10-14
Wilkes 8.600 13-7
Huntingdon 8.588 11-6
121-130
King's 8.583 15-9
Edgewood 8.565 13-10
St. John's 8.545 15-7
Penn State-Behrend 8.524 15-6
Loras 8.478 14-9
Kean 8.440 13-12
Salve Regina 8.435 15-8
Wesley 8.435 16-7
Chapman 8.417 8-4
Potsdam State 8.409 13-9
Does not include unreported scores of Chapman, UC Santa Cruz, Nebraska Wesleyan and Colorado College.
1-10
Amherst 12.000 22-1
Lawrence 11.571 21-0
Worcester Polytech 11.091 19-3
Tufts 11.000 19-4
St. John Fisher 10.864 21-1
Mississippi College 10.833 23-1
Lincoln 10.813 12-4
Gordon 10.560 22-3
Trinity (Texas) 10.526 16-3
Virginia Wesleyan 10.481 24-3
11-20
Augustana 10.478 19-4
Wittenberg 10.455 19-3
Cortland State 10.440 22-3
York (Pa.) 10.400 22-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.389 14-4
William Paterson 10.250 18-6
Bates 10.238 16-5
Transylvania 10.231 22-4
Carroll 10.227 19-3
Wooster 10.217 21-2
21-30
Washington U. 10.211 14-5
UW-Whitewater 10.136 17-5
Carleton 10.136 18-4
Illinois Wesleyan 10.100 15-5
Widener 10.083 20-4
Keene State 10.042 18-6
UW-Stout 10.000 18-4
Calvin 10.000 13-1
Baruch 9.958 21-3
Alvernia 9.958 21-3
31-40
Hope 9.944 16-2
Baldwin-Wallace 9.920 21-4
Lakeland 9.905 17-4
Trinity (Conn.) 9.895 15-4
UW-La Crosse 9.880 18-7
Utica 9.880 20-5
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.870 18-5
North Central 9.850 15-5
Randolph-Macon 9.840 19-6
Ursinus 9.826 18-5
41-50
St. Thomas 9.792 19-5
Occidental 9.750 12-4
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.714 6-1
Puget Sound 9.706 15-2
New York University 9.696 17-6
Whitworth 9.652 18-5
Williams 9.625 16-8
Lake Erie 9.571 17-4
MIT 9.565 16-7
Hamilton 9.476 17-4
51-60
Colby-Sawyer 9.458 16-8
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.458 18-6
New Jersey 9.455 14-8
Rochester 9.450 13-7
Catholic 9.435 18-5
Bowdoin 9.429 13-8
Albright 9.409 14-8
Fisk 9.400 10-5
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.400 15-5
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.391 15-8
61-70
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.381 15-6
Pomona-Pitzer 9.353 13-4
Messiah 9.348 16-7
Endicott 9.333 16-8
Mount St. Mary 9.333 18-6
Howard Payne 9.333 18-6
Manhattanville 9.320 17-8
Salem State 9.320 18-7
Rhode Island College 9.308 17-9
Bethany 9.304 19-4
71-80
UW-Stevens Point 9.292 15-9
Johns Hopkins 9.286 15-6
Wartburg 9.273 17-5
Scranton 9.250 18-6
Ohio Northern 9.227 17-5
McMurry 9.217 17-6
Franklin 9.208 18-6
Richard Stockton 9.208 15-9
Emmanuel 9.200 19-6
Willamette 9.200 16-4
81-90
Elms 9.174 19-4
Westfield State 9.167 16-8
New Jersey City 9.167 16-8
Coe 9.143 15-6
Villa Julie 9.143 17-4
UW-Oshkosh 9.136 13-9
Albion 9.125 12-4
Centre 9.095 14-7
Southwestern 9.048 15-6
Elmhurst 9.045 14-8
91-100
Norwich 9.042 19-5
Averett 9.000 16-5
Rutgers-Newark 9.000 17-9
Plymouth State 8.962 16-10
Ramapo 8.957 14-9
Hanover 8.952 13-8
Chicago 8.947 11-8
Oswego State 8.920 18-7
Ohio Wesleyan 8.917 17-7
Elizabethtown 8.913 13-10
101-110
Gettysburg 8.913 15-8
Brockport State 8.905 12-9
Aurora 8.900 13-7
Plattsburgh State 8.875 15-9
Mass-Boston 8.875 15-9
SUNYIT 8.870 13-10
Pitt-Greensburg 8.864 15-7
Milwaukee Engineering 8.857 14-7
Wilmington 8.852 20-7
Gustavus Adolphus 8.833 16-8
111-120
Coast Guard 8.826 16-7
Union 8.810 14-7
Bridgewater State 8.783 14-9
Christopher Newport 8.714 10-4
Clarke 8.714 14-7
Baptist Bible 8.706 13-4
Brandeis 8.696 13-10
Springfield 8.667 10-14
Wilkes 8.600 13-7
Huntingdon 8.588 11-6
121-130
King's 8.583 15-9
Edgewood 8.565 13-10
St. John's 8.545 15-7
Penn State-Behrend 8.524 15-6
Loras 8.478 14-9
Kean 8.440 13-12
Salve Regina 8.435 15-8
Wesley 8.435 16-7
Chapman 8.417 8-4
Potsdam State 8.409 13-9
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 01:27:04 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 25, 2006, 01:27:04 PM
Chapman defeated Colorado College, 87-60, per the LA Times.
Nothing about UCSC-NWU in the LA Times or UCSC website.
Nothing about UCSC-NWU in the LA Times or UCSC website.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2006, 01:33:56 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2006, 01:33:56 PM
Colorado College's web site says Nebraska Wesleyan won (no score given).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 05:51:53 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 05:51:53 PM
Keystone 84, Villa Julie 77. Mustangs are out, IMHO.
Huntingdon 61, Maryville TN 48. Hawks are in, IMHO. (Maryville TN and Fisk are probably out.)
Huntingdon 61, Maryville TN 48. Hawks are in, IMHO. (Maryville TN and Fisk are probably out.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 25, 2006, 06:16:09 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 25, 2006, 06:16:09 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan defeated the Banana Slugs 67-62. Just in case anyone still cared.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 25, 2006, 07:47:52 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 25, 2006, 07:47:52 PM
Lincoln beats St. Joseph (ME) 99-79 winning the D3 Northeast Independent tournament. Kyle Myrick led the Lions with 49 pts, 8 boards, and 6 assists.
Lincoln is now 23-4 on the year,
Lincoln is now 23-4 on the year,
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 25, 2006, 08:07:57 PM
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 25, 2006, 08:07:57 PM
so as everyone says it looks like Lincoln and Bethany are locks but it looks kinda wide open from there, Huntingdon looks like they've got a solid chance with a 20-7, 12-6 region record, but the fourth spot seems wide open. Maryville, Nebraska Wesleyan, Chapman have all been mentioned but what about Saint Joseph's of maine? they lost today but still finish with a 19-8 record, 11-5 in region, there the only team i haven't seen mentioned with a chance at a pool b...is there any?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2006, 08:16:23 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2006, 08:16:23 PM
They have a terminally low QOWI, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 25, 2006, 08:21:50 PM
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 25, 2006, 08:21:50 PM
thats what i figured as well, what does the rest of these guys' QOWI ratings look like any idea?
Nebraska Wesleyan
Fisk
Maryville
Villa Julie
Keuka
Chapman
St. Joe's
Nebraska Wesleyan
Fisk
Maryville
Villa Julie
Keuka
Chapman
St. Joe's
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on February 25, 2006, 09:33:01 PM
Post by: elfinley on February 25, 2006, 09:33:01 PM
Chapman defeated Nebraska Wesleyan 76-67.
Games in the tournament were all very exciting. UC Santa Cruz beat Colo. College in overtime today.
Games in the tournament were all very exciting. UC Santa Cruz beat Colo. College in overtime today.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on February 25, 2006, 10:22:37 PM
Post by: hugenerd on February 25, 2006, 10:22:37 PM
Quote from: broke_ya_ankles on February 25, 2006, 08:21:50 PM
thats what i figured as well, what does the rest of these guys' QOWI ratings look like any idea?
Nebraska Wesleyan
Fisk
Maryville
Villa Julie
Keuka
Chapman
St. Joe's
The list is above through yesterdays games
NW is at 43 with 9.714
Fisk is at 58 with 9.400
Maryville is 61 with 9.381
VJ is 85 with 9.143
Keuka is not in top 130
Chapman is 129 with 8.417
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 10:37:56 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 10:37:56 PM
Quote from: elfinley on February 25, 2006, 09:33:01 PM
Chapman defeated Nebraska Wesleyan 76-67.
Games in the tournament were all very exciting. UC Santa Cruz beat Colo. College in overtime today.
Thank you, Chapman! In the very limited scope of the NebWes D3 play, that loss gives us more utility than anything else we could have received.
Head-to-head, they lost to Chapman. That is one minus. I wish that I could confirm whether head-to-head is "first among equals" in the criteria.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on February 25, 2006, 10:44:07 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on February 25, 2006, 10:44:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 10:37:56 PM
Head-to-head, they lost to Chapman. That is one minus. I wish that I could confirm whether head-to-head is "first among equals" in the criteria.
They could tell you Ralph, but then they would have to kill you. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 10:46:20 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 10:46:20 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on February 25, 2006, 10:44:07 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2006, 10:37:56 PM
Head-to-head, they lost to Chapman. That is one minus. I wish that I could confirm whether head-to-head is "first among equals" in the criteria.
They could tell you Ralph, but then they would have to kill you. :D
:D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Griffcoach22 on February 25, 2006, 11:51:45 PM
Post by: Griffcoach22 on February 25, 2006, 11:51:45 PM
.
Huntingdon 61, Maryville TN 48. Hawks are in, IMHO. (Maryville TN and Fisk are probably out.)
I agree. If any GSAC team gets in, it HAS to be Huntingdon. They are on fire. They beat Maryville twice and Fisk twice in the last 13 days. Both were ranked high in the region at the time HC beat them. The committee has to take the Huntingdon Hawks to the dance! They will probably send them to Clinton, MS to play Mississippi College.
Huntingdon 61, Maryville TN 48. Hawks are in, IMHO. (Maryville TN and Fisk are probably out.)
Quote
I agree. If any GSAC team gets in, it HAS to be Huntingdon. They are on fire. They beat Maryville twice and Fisk twice in the last 13 days. Both were ranked high in the region at the time HC beat them. The committee has to take the Huntingdon Hawks to the dance! They will probably send them to Clinton, MS to play Mississippi College.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 26, 2006, 09:44:57 AM
Post by: joe smith on February 26, 2006, 09:44:57 AM
Bethany beats Waynesburg in the conference championship 95-64. That is now 18 in a row. They improve to 23-4 and 20-4 in the region. If Bethany isn't a lock for the tourny then they were robbed. I don't see any other team in pool B beside Lincoln who is as deserving as this team. What are the chances they will host a game in the first round if they get in?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 26, 2006, 10:09:16 AM
Post by: crusaders on February 26, 2006, 10:09:16 AM
Clarke defeated Aurora by 15 last night, 86-71...enough to get a bid?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 26, 2006, 10:28:04 AM
Post by: jack johnson on February 26, 2006, 10:28:04 AM
i think after last nights affairs, things seem to be shaping up in Pool B....Nebraska Wesleyan goes down, Maryville goes down, Clarke and Bethany get big wins.....i think he four deserving teams are Lincoln, Bethany, Huntingdon, and Clarke (if they would happen to put two GSAC teams in i think it is in place of Clarke which would be really messed up by the NCAA)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2006, 10:54:59 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2006, 10:54:59 AM
Jack, I think that your competition for the 4th spot is from Chapman.
Chapman is 20-7/10-4 (.714) QOWI = 8.929 plus they have a win over the SCIAC's Pool A, CMS.
Record against teams in the tourney is no longer a specific criterion, but it does look good.
I also believe that it helps to fill a bracket.
#3 Chapman at #2 CMS
#4 Trinity TX at #1 UPS.
IMHO, Chapman is the 4th Pool B.
Chapman is 20-7/10-4 (.714) QOWI = 8.929 plus they have a win over the SCIAC's Pool A, CMS.
Record against teams in the tourney is no longer a specific criterion, but it does look good.
I also believe that it helps to fill a bracket.
#3 Chapman at #2 CMS
#4 Trinity TX at #1 UPS.
IMHO, Chapman is the 4th Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2006, 11:16:41 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2006, 11:16:41 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2006, 10:54:59 AMRecord against teams in the tourney is no longer a specific criterion, but it does look good.
And CMS might be ranked in that final, secret ranking to take place today. And record against regionally ranked teams is a criterion.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 26, 2006, 01:07:40 PM
Post by: joe smith on February 26, 2006, 01:07:40 PM
Any projections on who's getting in from pool B?
Lincoln
Bethany
?
?
Lincoln
Bethany
?
?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2006, 01:10:40 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2006, 01:10:40 PM
Pat posted his projections in the Daily Dose. I gave mine. ;) ;D
"Ka-dink!" Hit one more page view on the counter on the front page. ;)
"Ka-dink!" Hit one more page view on the counter on the front page. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2006, 01:53:07 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2006, 01:53:07 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2006, 01:10:40 PM
"Ka-dink!" Hit one more page view on the counter on the front page. ;)
Should be a big day for that. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: iwumichigander on February 26, 2006, 02:45:01 PM
Post by: iwumichigander on February 26, 2006, 02:45:01 PM
Quote from: crusaders on February 26, 2006, 10:09:16 AMMany answers all of which likely start with "NO" and degrade from there.
Clarke defeated Aurora by 15 last night, 86-71...enough to get a bid?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2006, 05:27:49 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 26, 2006, 05:27:49 PM
Lincoln and Bethany are in. I think you have to go with Huntingdon next, scary as that sounds.
Then I gotta say Maryville.
Chapman out west is always the killer, but I think their QOWI is low enough that they won't get in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2006, 06:03:08 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2006, 06:03:08 PM
Here's what we have for finals:
1-10
Amherst 12.160 24-1
Lawrence 11.682 22-0
Worcester Polytech 11.250 20-3
Mississippi College 11.154 25-1
Tufts 11.000 20-5
St. John Fisher 11.000 22-1
Lincoln 10.688 12-4
Wittenberg 10.652 20-3
Gordon 10.560 22-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.550 16-4
11-20
Virginia Wesleyan 10.481 24-3
Augustana 10.478 19-4
Cortland State 10.440 22-3
York (Pa.) 10.400 22-3
Transylvania 10.370 23-4
Trinity (Texas) 10.316 16-3
UW-Whitewater 10.304 18-5
William Paterson 10.240 19-6
Hope 10.211 17-2
North Central 10.095 16-5
21-30
Bates 10.091 16-6
Carroll 10.087 19-4
Ursinus 10.080 20-5
Baldwin-Wallace 10.077 22-4
Washington U. 10.050 14-6
Wooster 10.042 21-3
Carleton 10.000 18-5
St. Thomas 9.960 20-5
Baruch 9.958 21-3
Alvernia 9.958 21-3
31-40
Illinois Wesleyan 9.952 15-6
Puget Sound 9.944 16-2
Widener 9.920 20-5
Lakeland 9.905 17-4
UW-La Crosse 9.880 18-7
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.875 19-5
UW-Stout 9.870 18-5
Randolph-Macon 9.840 19-6
Keene State 9.800 18-7
Fisk 9.800 10-5
41-50
Trinity (Conn.) 9.750 15-5
Occidental 9.750 12-4
Calvin 9.733 13-2
Utica 9.692 20-6
MIT 9.680 17-7
Messiah 9.583 17-7
Whitworth 9.542 18-6
Catholic 9.542 19-5
Endicott 9.520 16-8
Lake Erie 9.500 18-4
51-60
New York University 9.500 17-7
Williams 9.458 16-8
New Jersey 9.455 14-8
Bowdoin 9.429 13-8
Hamilton 9.409 18-4
Albright 9.409 14-8
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.400 15-5
Howard Payne 9.385 19-7
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.364 15-7
Scranton 9.360 19-6
61-70
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.360 18-7
Colby-Sawyer 9.360 16-8
Pomona-Pitzer 9.353 13-4
Johns Hopkins 9.348 16-7
Bethany 9.333 20-4
Rochester 9.333 13-8
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333 7-2
Rhode Island College 9.308 17-9
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.292 15-9
UW-Stevens Point 9.292 15-9
71-80
Wartburg 9.273 17-5
Centre 9.261 15-8
Elms 9.250 20-4
Salem State 9.240 18-7
Manhattanville 9.231 17-9
Richard Stockton 9.208 15-9
Emmanuel 9.200 19-6
Willamette 9.200 16-4
Chicago 9.200 12-8
Westfield State 9.167 16-8
81-90
New Jersey City 9.167 16-8
Norwich 9.160 20-5
Villa Julie 9.143 17-4
UW-Oshkosh 9.136 13-9
Ohio Northern 9.130 17-6
McMurry 9.125 17-7
Albion 9.125 12-4
Franklin 9.120 18-7
Mass-Boston 9.120 16-9
Mount St. Mary 9.083 18-6
91-100
Christopher Newport 9.067 11-4
Hanover 9.048 13-8
Elmhurst 9.045 14-8
Plattsburgh State 9.040 16-9
Rutgers-Newark 9.000 17-9
Plymouth State 8.962 16-10
Chapman 8.929 10-4
Oswego State 8.920 18-7
Ohio Wesleyan 8.917 17-7
Elizabethtown 8.913 13-10
1-10
Amherst 12.160 24-1
Lawrence 11.682 22-0
Worcester Polytech 11.250 20-3
Mississippi College 11.154 25-1
Tufts 11.000 20-5
St. John Fisher 11.000 22-1
Lincoln 10.688 12-4
Wittenberg 10.652 20-3
Gordon 10.560 22-3
Carnegie Mellon 10.550 16-4
11-20
Virginia Wesleyan 10.481 24-3
Augustana 10.478 19-4
Cortland State 10.440 22-3
York (Pa.) 10.400 22-3
Transylvania 10.370 23-4
Trinity (Texas) 10.316 16-3
UW-Whitewater 10.304 18-5
William Paterson 10.240 19-6
Hope 10.211 17-2
North Central 10.095 16-5
21-30
Bates 10.091 16-6
Carroll 10.087 19-4
Ursinus 10.080 20-5
Baldwin-Wallace 10.077 22-4
Washington U. 10.050 14-6
Wooster 10.042 21-3
Carleton 10.000 18-5
St. Thomas 9.960 20-5
Baruch 9.958 21-3
Alvernia 9.958 21-3
31-40
Illinois Wesleyan 9.952 15-6
Puget Sound 9.944 16-2
Widener 9.920 20-5
Lakeland 9.905 17-4
UW-La Crosse 9.880 18-7
SUNY-Farmingdale 9.875 19-5
UW-Stout 9.870 18-5
Randolph-Macon 9.840 19-6
Keene State 9.800 18-7
Fisk 9.800 10-5
41-50
Trinity (Conn.) 9.750 15-5
Occidental 9.750 12-4
Calvin 9.733 13-2
Utica 9.692 20-6
MIT 9.680 17-7
Messiah 9.583 17-7
Whitworth 9.542 18-6
Catholic 9.542 19-5
Endicott 9.520 16-8
Lake Erie 9.500 18-4
51-60
New York University 9.500 17-7
Williams 9.458 16-8
New Jersey 9.455 14-8
Bowdoin 9.429 13-8
Hamilton 9.409 18-4
Albright 9.409 14-8
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 9.400 15-5
Howard Payne 9.385 19-7
Maryville (Tenn.) 9.364 15-7
Scranton 9.360 19-6
61-70
Mary Hardin-Baylor 9.360 18-7
Colby-Sawyer 9.360 16-8
Pomona-Pitzer 9.353 13-4
Johns Hopkins 9.348 16-7
Bethany 9.333 20-4
Rochester 9.333 13-8
Nebraska Wesleyan 9.333 7-2
Rhode Island College 9.308 17-9
Wheaton (Mass.) 9.292 15-9
UW-Stevens Point 9.292 15-9
71-80
Wartburg 9.273 17-5
Centre 9.261 15-8
Elms 9.250 20-4
Salem State 9.240 18-7
Manhattanville 9.231 17-9
Richard Stockton 9.208 15-9
Emmanuel 9.200 19-6
Willamette 9.200 16-4
Chicago 9.200 12-8
Westfield State 9.167 16-8
81-90
New Jersey City 9.167 16-8
Norwich 9.160 20-5
Villa Julie 9.143 17-4
UW-Oshkosh 9.136 13-9
Ohio Northern 9.130 17-6
McMurry 9.125 17-7
Albion 9.125 12-4
Franklin 9.120 18-7
Mass-Boston 9.120 16-9
Mount St. Mary 9.083 18-6
91-100
Christopher Newport 9.067 11-4
Hanover 9.048 13-8
Elmhurst 9.045 14-8
Plattsburgh State 9.040 16-9
Rutgers-Newark 9.000 17-9
Plymouth State 8.962 16-10
Chapman 8.929 10-4
Oswego State 8.920 18-7
Ohio Wesleyan 8.917 17-7
Elizabethtown 8.913 13-10
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on February 26, 2006, 07:35:32 PM
Post by: patcummings on February 26, 2006, 07:35:32 PM
Clarke's overall numbers were just too low. They couldn't break past Huntingdon, Maryville, or Chapman for that matter.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: crusaders on February 26, 2006, 08:52:49 PM
Post by: crusaders on February 26, 2006, 08:52:49 PM
A loss to Marion looks like it might be keeping us out of the tourny this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2006, 08:58:08 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2006, 08:58:08 PM
As I said earlier, it isn't just one win or loss that makes the difference for Clarke. Clarke is well behind the teams in front of it. Clarke needed to turn around three games, I think, to be comfortable.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 27, 2006, 07:27:07 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 27, 2006, 07:27:07 AM
I am surprised about Villa Julie in - but we'll never know about the smoke filled rooms...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 08:25:45 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 27, 2006, 08:25:45 AM
Julie suprised me too, but I had Huntingdon in instead. I thought if someone was going to take it from them it would unfairly be Fisk.
Oh well 3 out of 4 in Pool B is pretty darn good. I'll be happy missing only one since that Castelton State debacle a few years back.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 27, 2006, 12:25:42 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 27, 2006, 12:25:42 PM
Lincoln has a rematch with Chris. Newport in the first round, and can possible have a rematch with Messiah in the second. Talk about familiarity :) , playing that "Barnstorming schedule" the Lions had this year should hopefully help them do well.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 27, 2006, 09:43:37 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 27, 2006, 09:43:37 PM
What does everyone think of the pool B's matchups in the opening rounds???
Christopher Newport @ Lincoln
Lincoln beat Chris. Newport in OT the only time they played this season and it just seems like Lincoln is and will be the better team on Friday...i also think Alvernia will pull out a victory over Messiah and Lincoln should also be able to get by them at home on Saturday stepping right on in to the sweet sixteen.
Villa Julie @ Baruch
i am going to have to go with Baruch most likely winning easily at home and Villa Julie going home after the first round.
Bethany @ Transylvania
i think this one should be a tight game with Bethany bringing a better product to the tournament this year. i believe this game will come down to the final 2 minutes and maybe even the final seconds. the winner most likely gets Wooster on Saturday.
Maryville (Tenn.) vs Trinity (Texas) @ Miss. College
i also think this will be a tight game as well. i think i am going to go with Trinity in this one mainly due to how Maryville has been playing down the stretch.
i think there is a good chance for two B's to get a round one win (maybe even three), and two may also make it to the Sweet Sixteen.
Christopher Newport @ Lincoln
Lincoln beat Chris. Newport in OT the only time they played this season and it just seems like Lincoln is and will be the better team on Friday...i also think Alvernia will pull out a victory over Messiah and Lincoln should also be able to get by them at home on Saturday stepping right on in to the sweet sixteen.
Villa Julie @ Baruch
i am going to have to go with Baruch most likely winning easily at home and Villa Julie going home after the first round.
Bethany @ Transylvania
i think this one should be a tight game with Bethany bringing a better product to the tournament this year. i believe this game will come down to the final 2 minutes and maybe even the final seconds. the winner most likely gets Wooster on Saturday.
Maryville (Tenn.) vs Trinity (Texas) @ Miss. College
i also think this will be a tight game as well. i think i am going to go with Trinity in this one mainly due to how Maryville has been playing down the stretch.
i think there is a good chance for two B's to get a round one win (maybe even three), and two may also make it to the Sweet Sixteen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 27, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 27, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
I don't really know anything about Villa Julie or Baruch, so I'll stay away from that one. I expect Lincoln to beat CNU. But if either Bethany or Maryville wins their games (especially Maryville), I'll be flabbergasted. I think the Trinity/Maryville game shapes up as one of the biggest mismatches in the first round, along with Hope/WI Lutheran and Whitewater/DePauw.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2006, 12:08:50 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2006, 12:08:50 AM
David: Pretty strong stuff...biggest mismatch, etc. Is this based on knowing something? You're usually pretty sensible.
I know Maryville's best player is hurt (and has been for the slide), but I'm hoping you're unusually full of it.
I know Maryville's best player is hurt (and has been for the slide), but I'm hoping you're unusually full of it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2006, 12:46:45 AM
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2006, 12:46:45 AM
It would be unusual if I weren't full of it... ::)
It just seems to me that Maryville is "troughing" (as opposed to "peaking") at the wrong time, and that (SCAC tourney upset notwithstanding) Trinity is a very good team.
It just seems to me that Maryville is "troughing" (as opposed to "peaking") at the wrong time, and that (SCAC tourney upset notwithstanding) Trinity is a very good team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 28, 2006, 06:34:22 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 28, 2006, 06:34:22 AM
Darn :( , Lincoln didn't move down in the top 25. Oh well, hopefully the NCAA tournament will get the Lions growling.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2006, 09:24:07 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2006, 09:24:07 AM
I think that Lincoln is the only team with a realistic chance to win.
I think that Trinity beats Maryville convincingly.
I won't give an opinion about VJC and Baruch, but I expect Transy to beat Bethany.
The only B that is flying on Saturday will be Lincoln.
I think that Trinity beats Maryville convincingly.
I won't give an opinion about VJC and Baruch, but I expect Transy to beat Bethany.
The only B that is flying on Saturday will be Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joe smith on February 28, 2006, 09:30:08 AM
Post by: joe smith on February 28, 2006, 09:30:08 AM
I think Lincoln will make it all the way to the elite eight while Bethany will be facing Wooster in the 2nd round (they will need a lot of luck to get past that one) while Maryville and VJC will both have trouble and lose by 15.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 10:22:38 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2006, 10:22:38 AM
I think Lincoln is fine until VA Wesleyan; that's a tough match-up.
I think Bethany can pull it off and suprise Transy, so long as the awful PrAC schedule hasn't dulled their talents.
Villa Julie can win, but I don't know enough about Baruch and their home court advantage to call this one.
Maryville is toast. They shouldn't even be in this thing the way they played down the stretch.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 28, 2006, 12:10:00 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 28, 2006, 12:10:00 PM
Ralph Turner & joe smith:
Thanks for showing Lincoln some "Love". I have to agree with Hoops Fan, the Lincoln - Va. Wesleyan game (barring any upsets) will be a great one!
Go Lincoln University Lions
Thanks for showing Lincoln some "Love". I have to agree with Hoops Fan, the Lincoln - Va. Wesleyan game (barring any upsets) will be a great one!
Go Lincoln University Lions
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 01, 2006, 01:58:38 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 01, 2006, 01:58:38 PM
David Collinge:
Please add Lincoln to your list of "firsts". This is the first time Lincoln is going to the "Big Dance", and to host two games with our first invitation adds to the Lion's historical season.
Go Lincoln University Lions
Please add Lincoln to your list of "firsts". This is the first time Lincoln is going to the "Big Dance", and to host two games with our first invitation adds to the Lion's historical season.
Go Lincoln University Lions
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on March 01, 2006, 04:59:04 PM
Post by: David Collinge on March 01, 2006, 04:59:04 PM
My list of "firsts?" ???
If you are referring to my weekly post about the Top 25, it's just that--about the Top 25. There's lots of "firsts" out there every week that escape my admittedly narrow focus. For example, I'd bet there's other first-time participants in the tournament besides Lincoln (Baruch? Villa Julie? York NY? I'm just guessing.)
Nevertheless, I extend my congratulations to Lincoln for this "first," and all of their other achievements in this historic season.
If you are referring to my weekly post about the Top 25, it's just that--about the Top 25. There's lots of "firsts" out there every week that escape my admittedly narrow focus. For example, I'd bet there's other first-time participants in the tournament besides Lincoln (Baruch? Villa Julie? York NY? I'm just guessing.)
Nevertheless, I extend my congratulations to Lincoln for this "first," and all of their other achievements in this historic season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on March 02, 2006, 10:28:27 PM
Post by: gordonmann on March 02, 2006, 10:28:27 PM
Speaking of NJLincolnlion's favorite Pool B team...
The NCAA tournament continues tomorrow night in Lincoln University, Pennsylvania. If you can't get to Lincoln, let D3hoops.com and NCAA Sports take you there.
8 PM: Lincoln University vs. Christopher Newport University
The webcast will be at
http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/scoreboard/div3
Pregame begins 20 minutes before each game and you'll need Windows Media to listen. You can broadcast it for free here:
http//www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/download/default.asp
The NCAA tournament continues tomorrow night in Lincoln University, Pennsylvania. If you can't get to Lincoln, let D3hoops.com and NCAA Sports take you there.
8 PM: Lincoln University vs. Christopher Newport University
The webcast will be at
http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/scoreboard/div3
Pregame begins 20 minutes before each game and you'll need Windows Media to listen. You can broadcast it for free here:
http//www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/download/default.asp
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 08:46:02 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2006, 08:46:02 AM
With the exception of Maryville, I think all the B's have a chance tonight. It should be interesting to see how things pan out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 03, 2006, 09:29:39 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 03, 2006, 09:29:39 AM
Gordon Mann:
Thanks for the info regarding the webcast of the Lincoln/CNU game tonight :) . I was thinking about going over to Baruch tonight, but now I have to check out my "favorite pool B team" ;D . I hope we have the same results tonight we had when you webcasted the Lincoln Stockton game. On behalf of all the Lincoln Alums across the country, Gordon, we thank you, Pat Coleman, and D3 Sports for the webcast.
The Time is Now at Hand Lincoln Lions[/glow]
Thanks for the info regarding the webcast of the Lincoln/CNU game tonight :) . I was thinking about going over to Baruch tonight, but now I have to check out my "favorite pool B team" ;D . I hope we have the same results tonight we had when you webcasted the Lincoln Stockton game. On behalf of all the Lincoln Alums across the country, Gordon, we thank you, Pat Coleman, and D3 Sports for the webcast.
The Time is Now at Hand Lincoln Lions[/glow]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on March 03, 2006, 07:43:40 PM
Post by: David Collinge on March 03, 2006, 07:43:40 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2006, 08:46:02 AM
With the exception of Maryville, I think all the B's have a chance tonight. It should be interesting to see how things pan out.
I had, and expressed, a similar opinion a day or two ago. But Maryville has opened an 18-point halftime lead on Trinity. Boy, was I ever wrong about this game!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on March 03, 2006, 08:50:23 PM
Post by: David Collinge on March 03, 2006, 08:50:23 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 27, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
I don't really know anything about Villa Julie or Baruch, so I'll stay away from that one. I expect Lincoln to beat CNU. But if either Bethany or Maryville wins their games (especially Maryville), I'll be flabbergasted. I think the Trinity/Maryville game shapes up as one of the biggest mismatches in the first round, along with Hope/WI Lutheran and Whitewater/DePauw.
:-[
Maryville 83, Trinity 64, final.
Well, I was right about one thing: it was a mismatch! ::)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2006, 09:10:43 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2006, 09:10:43 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 03, 2006, 08:50:23 PMQuote from: David Collinge on February 27, 2006, 10:12:35 PM
I don't really know anything about Villa Julie or Baruch, so I'll stay away from that one. I expect Lincoln to beat CNU. But if either Bethany or Maryville wins their games (especially Maryville), I'll be flabbergasted. I think the Trinity/Maryville game shapes up as one of the biggest mismatches in the first round, along with Hope/WI Lutheran and Whitewater/DePauw.
:-[
Maryville 83, Trinity 64, final.
Well, I was right about one thing: it was a mismatch! ::)
David, having eaten more than enough crow in my day, I've written a recipe book.
The two best suggestions: if accompanied by enough 'Old Crow', you'll never remember eating it; if coated with a garlicky batter, yum - tastes just like chicken!
Don't know whether or not April has any good kimchee and crow recipes! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2006, 09:12:37 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2006, 09:12:37 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2006, 09:10:43 PMDon't know whether or not April has any good kimchee and crow recipes! ;)
I'm sure that she's baked a few crow cookies in her time. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2006, 09:25:54 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2006, 09:25:54 PM
Hey Hoops Fan: Exactly what kind of toast is Maryville, anyway?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2006, 09:27:51 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2006, 09:27:51 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 03, 2006, 09:25:54 PM
Hey Hoops Fan: Exactly what kind of toast is Maryville, anyway?
Apparently, 'wry' toast.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 03, 2006, 10:26:52 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 03, 2006, 10:26:52 PM
Lincoln 102 - Christopher Newport 96. CNU played a heck of a game, and gave the Lions mall they wanted and then some. Myrick finished with 42 pts. 9 assists. Lincoln hosts Messiah tomorrow in round 2 as Lincoln wins it's first NCAA post season game.
Go Lincoln University Lions
Go Lincoln University Lions
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 03, 2006, 10:49:37 PM
Post by: smedindy on March 03, 2006, 10:49:37 PM
And Villa Julie proved the haters wrong as well.
I bet they'll be dozens at Baruch tomorrow - plenty of good seats available!
I bet they'll be dozens at Baruch tomorrow - plenty of good seats available!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2006, 11:31:26 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2006, 11:31:26 PM
Mr. Ypsi: Wry toast. I like that!
Any word from Hoops Fan?
I guess David Collinge is so flabbergasted he cannot comment on his "misjudgement" about Maryville. Some of Y'all national posters ought to venture down South some time. It was a mismatch, so you got it half right.
Any word from Hoops Fan?
I guess David Collinge is so flabbergasted he cannot comment on his "misjudgement" about Maryville. Some of Y'all national posters ought to venture down South some time. It was a mismatch, so you got it half right.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on March 04, 2006, 01:36:36 AM
Post by: David Collinge on March 04, 2006, 01:36:36 AM
I did comment on it, several times, but that's okay, I deserve to eat as much crow as you can find to serve me. :-\
The so-called "Bumblin B's" went 3-1 tonight. I feel like that has to be a record performance, and even if it isn't, it suggests that the B's are stinging more than they are bumbling this year.
The so-called "Bumblin B's" went 3-1 tonight. I feel like that has to be a record performance, and even if it isn't, it suggests that the B's are stinging more than they are bumbling this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scotswin on March 04, 2006, 08:12:46 AM
Post by: scotswin on March 04, 2006, 08:12:46 AM
The Maryville doubters had good reason this year. This team has been spiralling over the last month.
However, this is the 8th straight NCAA appearance by the Scots, and this win makes 8 straight years with at least one win in the tournament. I say this every year, but there cannot be many other teams who have won a tournament game every year for 8 years in a row.
However, this is the 8th straight NCAA appearance by the Scots, and this win makes 8 straight years with at least one win in the tournament. I say this every year, but there cannot be many other teams who have won a tournament game every year for 8 years in a row.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on March 04, 2006, 10:39:23 AM
Post by: patcummings on March 04, 2006, 10:39:23 AM
Per a much earlier post, David Collinge...Baruch was not in the tourney for the first time. They lost in the first round at F&M back in 2000. I only know cause I had the call from Mayser Center that night.
Baruch were the Statesmen then and still played in a high school gym...a lot has changed since then.
Villa Julie did Pool B proud, and pulled off the biggest upset of the night with a "13 seed" over the "3 seed" host per D3hoops.com's seeding estimations.
My color analyst, Jody King - associate head coach at Yeshiva - was incredibly impressed with William Paterson and the coaching job of Jose Rebimbas.
How far does VJC go? All depends on how rested they are tonight. Paterson played an easy game, although many starters played much of the game...VJC had a much tougher game and pulled away in the end...
Baruch were the Statesmen then and still played in a high school gym...a lot has changed since then.
Villa Julie did Pool B proud, and pulled off the biggest upset of the night with a "13 seed" over the "3 seed" host per D3hoops.com's seeding estimations.
My color analyst, Jody King - associate head coach at Yeshiva - was incredibly impressed with William Paterson and the coaching job of Jose Rebimbas.
How far does VJC go? All depends on how rested they are tonight. Paterson played an easy game, although many starters played much of the game...VJC had a much tougher game and pulled away in the end...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 12:29:46 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 12:29:46 PM
Quote from: patcummings on March 04, 2006, 10:39:23 AMBaruch were the Statesmen then and still played in a high school gym...a lot has changed since then.
I'm sure that political correctness induced the Baruch administration to change the nickname of the school's athletic teams, but it would've been a lot more interesting if they had opted to call their teams the Statespeople rather than the more prosaic "Bearcats".
Of course, the ideal solution would've been to split the nicknames of the two sexes, calling the men's teams "Statesmen" and the women's teams "Stateswomen".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 01:45:23 PM
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 01:45:23 PM
Well, they do that for Oberlin. Yeomen and Yeowomen. Ick.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 04, 2006, 01:50:51 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 04, 2006, 01:50:51 PM
Good luck to the Lincoln Lions in their game with Messiah tonight. Messiah seems to be a "steady team" despite their record. The Falcons beat both Albright and Lebanon Valley twice this season. Lebanon Valley and Albright both beat Lincoln in the closing minutes to give the Lions 2 of their 4 loses this season. Lincoln beat Messiah by two in York this season, so the Falcons are familiar with the Lions.
I hope the Lions are through with expermenting with a "three guard" concept in their starting rotation. Lincoln needs to get out quick and force the pressure on the Falcons who will will try to slow down the game. Tyreek Byard who did not play the first time around along with Bryant Leach (who had a great game for the second time this season) aganist CNU will need to contribute. Kyle Myrick will be Kyle Myrick, and I expect Sami Wylie to break out of his slump. Darryl White will continue to intimidate shots with help from Thomas Hickson. The home court advantage should be the "icing on the cake" for the Lions tonight, although it seemed that the Falcons had quite a few supporters from Grantham, PA.
Great job by Gordon Mann and his colleague during the Webcast last night!
Keep It Going Lincoln University Lions !
I hope the Lions are through with expermenting with a "three guard" concept in their starting rotation. Lincoln needs to get out quick and force the pressure on the Falcons who will will try to slow down the game. Tyreek Byard who did not play the first time around along with Bryant Leach (who had a great game for the second time this season) aganist CNU will need to contribute. Kyle Myrick will be Kyle Myrick, and I expect Sami Wylie to break out of his slump. Darryl White will continue to intimidate shots with help from Thomas Hickson. The home court advantage should be the "icing on the cake" for the Lions tonight, although it seemed that the Falcons had quite a few supporters from Grantham, PA.
Great job by Gordon Mann and his colleague during the Webcast last night!
Keep It Going Lincoln University Lions !
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 03:28:56 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 03:28:56 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 01:45:23 PM
Well, they do that for Oberlin. Yeomen and Yeowomen. Ick.
That was a dumb choice by Oberlin, since Yeowomen is a neologism. "Yeoman" is an established military rank in both the U.S. Navy and the British royal bodyguard, with a history going back hundreds of years. In the U.S. Navy, a yeoman is a petty officer who performs clerical duties. Women have held the rank of yeoman since they were first allowed to enter the enlisted ranks of the U.S. Navy generations ago.
However, if there's one institution of higher learning in America that is likely to thumb its nose at military tradition, it's Oberlin College. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 04:03:44 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 04:03:44 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 01:45:23 PM
Well, they do that for Oberlin. Yeomen and Yeowomen. Ick.
You know, they even do that at Hardin-Simmons.
Cowboys and Cowgirls. :D :D ;D ;D :D ;) 8)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2006, 04:15:34 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2006, 04:15:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 04:03:44 PMQuote from: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 01:45:23 PM
Well, they do that for Oberlin. Yeomen and Yeowomen. Ick.
You know, they even do that at Hardin-Simmons.
Cowboys and Cowgirls. :D :D ;D ;D :D ;) 8)
I am not a fan of the separate-but-equal nicknames.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 04:55:34 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 04:55:34 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2006, 04:15:34 PMI am not a fan of the separate-but-equal nicknames.
So you think that the Pomona-Pitzer men's teams should be stuck with calling themselves the Sagehens? :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on March 04, 2006, 04:58:35 PM
Post by: Warren Thompson on March 04, 2006, 04:58:35 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 04:55:34 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2006, 04:15:34 PMI am not a fan of the separate-but-equal nicknames.
So you think that the Pomona-Pitzer men's teams should be stuck with calling themselves the Sagehens? :D
Yeah, well, at LVC we still have the Dutchmen (sometimes "flying") and the Lady Dutchmen. Oh, woe .... :-[
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 05:18:04 PM
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 05:18:04 PM
Well, if there ever was a team named the Stardust, then the women's team would be the Lady Stardust - and I'm assuming that they'd be all glammed out with bright orange hair and makeup everywhere.
Oh...no one gets 33 year old Bowie jokes anymore?? ;D
Oh...no one gets 33 year old Bowie jokes anymore?? ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 05:26:47 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 05:26:47 PM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on March 04, 2006, 04:58:35 PMQuote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 04:55:34 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2006, 04:15:34 PMI am not a fan of the separate-but-equal nicknames.
So you think that the Pomona-Pitzer men's teams should be stuck with calling themselves the Sagehens? :D
Yeah, well, at LVC we still have the Dutchmen (sometimes "flying") and the Lady Dutchmen. Oh, woe .... :-[
Warren, does LVC have an English department? Have they fulminated endlessly about this blatant oxymoron? Lady Dutch (or Dutch Ladies) would be such an obvious solution.
(I'd suggest 'Lady Hollanders', but some wiseass would remember Xaviera!);D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on March 04, 2006, 05:48:01 PM
Post by: Warren Thompson on March 04, 2006, 05:48:01 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 05:26:47 PMQuote from: Warren Thompson on March 04, 2006, 04:58:35 PMQuote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 04:55:34 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2006, 04:15:34 PMI am not a fan of the separate-but-equal nicknames.
So you think that the Pomona-Pitzer men's teams should be stuck with calling themselves the Sagehens? :D
Yeah, well, at LVC we still have the Dutchmen (sometimes "flying") and the Lady Dutchmen. Oh, woe .... :-[
Warren, does LVC have an English department? Have they fulminated endlessly about this blatant oxymoron? Lady Dutch (or Dutch Ladies) would be such an obvious solution.
(I'd suggest 'Lady Hollanders', but some wiseass would remember Xaviera!);D
While the LVC Department of English "fulminates endlessly" about many things, they have nothing to say about the Dutchmen/Lady Dutchmen issue (apparently there's no Modern Language Association guideline for this sort of thing).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 04, 2006, 09:38:51 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 04, 2006, 09:38:51 PM
You should have just left it Lady Hollanders in your post. I would have been that wise ass.
NJCU used to be the Gothic Knights and Lady Gothics. Several years ago they changed the women so now both are just the Gothic Knights.
NJCU used to be the Gothic Knights and Lady Gothics. Several years ago they changed the women so now both are just the Gothic Knights.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 09:48:48 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 09:48:48 PM
Yeah, I suppose I should have let someone else pick up the punch line. I was afraid "The Happy Hooker" might be TOO obscure by now.
I should know better - SOMEONE will pick up on it! I tried to slip in some Tom Lehrer lines from 'Lobachevsky' a few months ago, and Pat corrected my lyrics! ;D
I should know better - SOMEONE will pick up on it! I tried to slip in some Tom Lehrer lines from 'Lobachevsky' a few months ago, and Pat corrected my lyrics! ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 09:55:27 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 09:55:27 PM
Mississippi College finally started playing the way that we ASC fans are used to their playing and pulled away from a 24-26 halfitme deficit to win 69-51 over the MURVUL Scots.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 10:02:02 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 10:02:02 PM
Lincoln 100, Messiah 80.
Only one B is left!
Only one B is left!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 10:28:41 PM
Post by: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 10:28:41 PM
But it's the best B, and with some carnage afoot, they may be whispered about as a contender.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 04, 2006, 11:12:41 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 04, 2006, 11:12:41 PM
Congratulations Lincoln on the win over Messiah. Now it's on to Virginia, to take on Va. Wesleyan in the sweet sixteen. It should be an excellent game between the Lions and the Marlins. Lincoln wins by 20 tonight, while Va, Wesleyan beats SUNY Farmingdale by 10.
Hopefully Lincoln's regular season "Road Warrior" schedule will have them prepared for the Marlins. Right now as we all know it's "one and done". The Home teams (as witnessed by York) are not guaranteed a win, and neither does ranking, since Transy beat Wooster.
Let's Go Lincoln University, It's on to the Sweet Sixteen and Beyond !!!
Hopefully Lincoln's regular season "Road Warrior" schedule will have them prepared for the Marlins. Right now as we all know it's "one and done". The Home teams (as witnessed by York) are not guaranteed a win, and neither does ranking, since Transy beat Wooster.
Let's Go Lincoln University, It's on to the Sweet Sixteen and Beyond !!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 05, 2006, 12:02:21 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 05, 2006, 12:02:21 AM
Well I expect to be back here next year advocating for a little love for Maryville and maybe we can figure out how to get past Mississippi College. Even if the Scots can someday get in via Pool A, we'll still have to beat the Chocs to get out of the South. In the meantime, we'll keep being a B Regular. And beating teams from the SCAC and the USA South.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on March 05, 2006, 12:20:39 AM
Post by: gordonmann on March 05, 2006, 12:20:39 AM
It was a fun weekend in Lincoln University with some good basketball played.
Lincoln was very impressive tonight, but I'll save my thoughts for later in the week.
I did want to send a pseudo-public shout out to Rob Knox, the Sports Information Director at Lincoln and Tournament Director. He and his crew did a fantastic job as did the whole school hosting the weekend's fun.
Thanks for making the experience a special one.
Lincoln was very impressive tonight, but I'll save my thoughts for later in the week.
I did want to send a pseudo-public shout out to Rob Knox, the Sports Information Director at Lincoln and Tournament Director. He and his crew did a fantastic job as did the whole school hosting the weekend's fun.
Thanks for making the experience a special one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dothedew on March 05, 2006, 12:50:29 PM
Post by: dothedew on March 05, 2006, 12:50:29 PM
From the Hope website
The Flying Dutchmen will travel to Wittenberg University in Springfield, Ohio for the NCAA Division III Sectional Tournament next Friday, the NCAA has announced. Hope (28-2) will play the host Tigers (27-3) in the second game of Friday's doubleheader at a time to be announced. The first game will pit Mississippi College (28-1) against Transylvania, Ky. (26-4). Friday's winners will meet on Saturday at a time to be announced.
The Flying Dutchmen will travel to Wittenberg University in Springfield, Ohio for the NCAA Division III Sectional Tournament next Friday, the NCAA has announced. Hope (28-2) will play the host Tigers (27-3) in the second game of Friday's doubleheader at a time to be announced. The first game will pit Mississippi College (28-1) against Transylvania, Ky. (26-4). Friday's winners will meet on Saturday at a time to be announced.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 05, 2006, 07:22:05 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 05, 2006, 07:22:05 PM
Gordon Mann:
Thanks for webcasting the first and second rounds from Lincoln University, in scenic Southern Chester County, PA. Also a thanks go out to Pat Coleman and the entire D3 Sports family. Gordon, you have an open invitation to visit Lincoln anytime, and maybe one day Pat Coleman will join you :) .
I hope the Basketball team can start placing some NCAA Championship banners (Men & Women) much like the Track teams have done. Hopefully Soccer and Baseball championships are in our future also.
The Lions head back on the road in their game with Va. Wesleyan. I hope Sami Wylie's slump is all behind him, and the treys continue to fall for him. I'm sure Coach Yuille will continue to have the entire team focused on one game at a time. Coach Yuille has been a great tactician in his ability to make adjustments where needed.
Onward Lincoln University Lions
Thanks for webcasting the first and second rounds from Lincoln University, in scenic Southern Chester County, PA. Also a thanks go out to Pat Coleman and the entire D3 Sports family. Gordon, you have an open invitation to visit Lincoln anytime, and maybe one day Pat Coleman will join you :) .
I hope the Basketball team can start placing some NCAA Championship banners (Men & Women) much like the Track teams have done. Hopefully Soccer and Baseball championships are in our future also.
The Lions head back on the road in their game with Va. Wesleyan. I hope Sami Wylie's slump is all behind him, and the treys continue to fall for him. I'm sure Coach Yuille will continue to have the entire team focused on one game at a time. Coach Yuille has been a great tactician in his ability to make adjustments where needed.
Onward Lincoln University Lions
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on March 05, 2006, 07:32:21 PM
Post by: Lefty on March 05, 2006, 07:32:21 PM
NJLincolnLion....congrats on a great season!
Do you have any inside information on why Lincoln did not file to host the sectional? I doubt they would have received the sectional but I don't understand why they would not even file. This is a huge advantage for Virginia Wesleyan to have all three teams bus five plus hours.
Do you have any inside information on why Lincoln did not file to host the sectional? I doubt they would have received the sectional but I don't understand why they would not even file. This is a huge advantage for Virginia Wesleyan to have all three teams bus five plus hours.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 05, 2006, 07:56:06 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 05, 2006, 07:56:06 PM
njcu_fan:
I don't have any information why Lincoln did not file to host a regional, and I doubt that I would get an answer. I do know Lincoln hosted two post season tournaments within two weeks. The first tournament was the Northeast D3 Independent Tournament, followed by the NCAA First and Second rounds this past weekend.
Lincoln hosting the regional would have been ideal, since it is midway for William Paterson and Va. Wesleyan. Widener is very close in proximity to Lincoln. WPU is the school that has the longest trip.
I don't have any information why Lincoln did not file to host a regional, and I doubt that I would get an answer. I do know Lincoln hosted two post season tournaments within two weeks. The first tournament was the Northeast D3 Independent Tournament, followed by the NCAA First and Second rounds this past weekend.
Lincoln hosting the regional would have been ideal, since it is midway for William Paterson and Va. Wesleyan. Widener is very close in proximity to Lincoln. WPU is the school that has the longest trip.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 05, 2006, 11:51:03 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 05, 2006, 11:51:03 PM
Lincolnlion, Lincoln and TCNJ finished far behind NJCU on Saturday in the ECAC Indoor Track and Field championship. NJCU won with four sprinters and an injured jumper. They swept the top three or four spots in almost every sprint event and the injured jumper still was able to place in the high points. Then late that evening the NJCU men won the ECAC basketball tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 06, 2006, 09:04:17 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 06, 2006, 09:04:17 AM
knightstalker:
Amazing night for NJCU in T&F and Men's Basketball. That was unusual for Lincoln to be that off in Track :o . Hopefully the Lions will rebound in the Indoor NCAA's. NJCU's Diana Lawson last year beat Lincoln's Precious Macklin to win both the sprint titles in last years Outdoor championships. With Lawson gone, maybe we'll have a shot. By the way, did you catch Lincoln's men's 4x400 team in the Penn Relays. The Lions were the only d3 team in the men's championship of America and finished fourth to the likes of Florida, Tennessee, and other the D1 powers.
Amazing night for NJCU in T&F and Men's Basketball. That was unusual for Lincoln to be that off in Track :o . Hopefully the Lions will rebound in the Indoor NCAA's. NJCU's Diana Lawson last year beat Lincoln's Precious Macklin to win both the sprint titles in last years Outdoor championships. With Lawson gone, maybe we'll have a shot. By the way, did you catch Lincoln's men's 4x400 team in the Penn Relays. The Lions were the only d3 team in the men's championship of America and finished fourth to the likes of Florida, Tennessee, and other the D1 powers.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 10:02:58 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 10:02:58 AM
I guess I'm a couple days late, but that's what I get for not posting on the weekends.
Maryville, who was just sucking down the stretch decided they wanted to start winning in the tournament (which is almost second nature for them now).
I was disappointed that Bethany couldn't even keep it close, but felt better when Transy took down Wooster in the second round. I just totally underestimated Transylvania. I'm a little more ok with that one.
Good luck to Lincoln. I would love to see them make it to Salem.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 11:41:16 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2006, 11:41:16 AM
Quote from: scotswin on March 04, 2006, 08:12:46 AM
The Maryville doubters had good reason this year. This team has been spiralling over the last month.
However, this is the 8th straight NCAA appearance by the Scots, and this win makes 8 straight years with at least one win in the tournament. I say this every year, but there cannot be many other teams who have won a tournament game every year for 8 years in a row.
I did some research. For right now it only goes back to 1998, when the tournament was reduced from 64 teams.
Maryville (TN) is now at 8 years and counting having won at least one game in the tournament.
Amherst is now at 7 and counting.
The next highest active streaks are:
Wooster-4
Lawrence, Puget Sound, and St John Fisher at 3
Calvin, Miss Coll, VA Wes, WPI, and York (PA) are all at 2
The longest consecutive streaks since 1998:
Maryville-8 (99-present)
Amherst-7 (00-present)
Catholic-5 (98-02)
Wooster-4 (03-present)
Rochester-4 (02-05)
Hampden-Sydney-4 (01-04)
Lawrence-3 (04-present)
Puget Sound-3 (04-present)
St John Fisher-3 (04-present)
Hamilton-3 (98-00)
William Paterson-3 (99-01)
John Carroll-3 (03-05)
Salem State-3 (03-05)
Randolph Macon-3 (02-04)
Williams-3 (02-04)
Franklin-3 (98-00)
Gustavus Adolphus-3 (01-03)
Lewis & Clark-3 (00-02)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 06, 2006, 12:12:22 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 06, 2006, 12:12:22 PM
Hoops Fan:
Thanks for your "well wishes" for Lincoln. I too hope the Lions make it Salem, and cap off this historic season with the "Ultimate Prize".
Thanks for your "well wishes" for Lincoln. I too hope the Lions make it Salem, and cap off this historic season with the "Ultimate Prize".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scotswin on March 06, 2006, 07:32:58 PM
Post by: scotswin on March 06, 2006, 07:32:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2006, 11:41:16 AM
I did some research. For right now it only goes back to 1998, when the tournament was reduced from 64 teams.
Maryville (TN) is now at 8 years and counting having won at least one game in the tournament.
Amherst is now at 7 and counting.
The next highest active streaks are:
Wooster-4
Lawrence, Puget Sound, and St John Fisher at 3
Calvin, Miss Coll, VA Wes, WPI, and York (PA) are all at 2
The longest consecutive streaks since 1998:
Maryville-8 (99-present)
Amherst-7 (00-present)
Catholic-5 (98-02)
Wooster-4 (03-present)
Rochester-4 (02-05)
Hampden-Sydney-4 (01-04)
Lawrence-3 (04-present)
Puget Sound-3 (04-present)
St John Fisher-3 (04-present)
Hamilton-3 (98-00)
William Paterson-3 (99-01)
John Carroll-3 (03-05)
Salem State-3 (03-05)
Randolph Macon-3 (02-04)
Williams-3 (02-04)
Franklin-3 (98-00)
Gustavus Adolphus-3 (01-03)
Lewis & Clark-3 (00-02)
Thanks for the research Hoopsfan!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 06, 2006, 10:08:59 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 06, 2006, 10:08:59 PM
HoopsFan: Scotswin beat me to it. Thanks. All we need to do now is upgrade from consistently being a pretty good program to winning more games in the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 07:53:55 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 07:53:55 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 05:18:04 PM
Well, if there ever was a team named the Stardust, then the women's team would be the Lady Stardust - and I'm assuming that they'd be all glammed out with bright orange hair and makeup everywhere.
Oh...no one gets 33 year old Bowie jokes anymore?? ;D
I'm sure that the Richmond Spiders got it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 07:57:38 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 07:57:38 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2006, 09:48:48 PM
Yeah, I suppose I should have let someone else pick up the punch line. I was afraid "The Happy Hooker" might be TOO obscure by now.
Smedindy would've been the logical choice. After all, he was the one who sniggered over Westmont College calling its tourney the Tom Byron Classic. That clearly established his metier in terms of obscure references on Posting Up. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 08:05:56 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 08:05:56 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2006, 10:02:58 AMGood luck to Lincoln. I would love to see them make it to Salem.
It's hard to root against Lincoln, unless your team is their opponent. Not only do the Lions have to live down the stigma of being a Bumblin' B, they also have had to contend with a ferociously forbidding schedule that kept them out of their own gym for over a month at one point and which forced them to play on back-to-back nights no fewer than seven times in the regular season (nine times to date). You gotta like a team that succeeds in spite of having a steeper hill to climb than others.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 07, 2006, 08:39:12 AM
Post by: smedindy on March 07, 2006, 08:39:12 AM
Ypsi - I must have glossed over it. I'd never let innuendo go by! ::)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 09:08:48 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 09:08:48 AM
Didn't Lincoln do a four games in four days, three state tour at one point?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 07, 2006, 10:03:34 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 07, 2006, 10:03:34 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 07:53:55 AMQuote from: smedindy on March 04, 2006, 05:18:04 PM
Well, if there ever was a team named the Stardust, then the women's team would be the Lady Stardust - and I'm assuming that they'd be all glammed out with bright orange hair and makeup everywhere.
Oh...no one gets 33 year old Bowie jokes anymore?? ;D
I'm sure that the Richmond Spiders got it.
"Ziggy played guitar, jammin' good with Weird and Gilly,
The spiders from Richmond"*
Somehow the spiders from Richmond doesn't seem to have the right metric fit and flow for the song.
*lyics by David Bowie.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 12:19:04 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 12:19:04 PM
I finished compiling the teams that had won at least one game in the tournament since its inception. I did not count the regional 3rd place games, back when they had them. I left them out because, in my opinion, they don't count. It's good to make teams feel better and make it worth the trip for fans, but it's not a tournament win because you don't move on.
I can answer lots of individual questions if they are posed to me (like Wittenberg leads all schools with 18 years winning at least one game and Transylvania had the longest drought, winning games in 1976 and 1977, but then not again until this year, 2006), but I'm not going to post too much.
For now, I'll give you the teams that have the longest consecutive years winning a game streak:
Potsdam State 9 (1979-1987) Would be 12 in a row from 1978-1989 if regional 3rd place games counted
Maryville (TN) 8 (1999-current)
Amherst 7 (2000-current)
Franklin & Marshall 6 (1991-1996) 10 out of 11 years from 1986-1996
Rowan 6 (1993-1998)
Calvin 5 (1989-1993)
Catholic 5 (1998-2002)
NYU 5 (1993-1997)
Platteville 5 (1991-1995)
Williams 5 (1994-1998)
Clark would have 11 (1978-1988), if you counted regional 3rd place games
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 12:21:17 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 12:21:17 PM
Also, Marietta and Suffolk both won games in the first tournament back in 1975 and have not won since. Those would be the longest active droughts.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 12:32:59 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2006, 12:32:59 PM
Ok, one more.
First time tourney winners from this year:
Farmingdale
Lincoln
Norwich
Stout
Utica
Villa Julie
Congratulations to all.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 01:28:38 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 01:28:38 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2006, 12:19:04 PM
I finished compiling the teams that had won at least one game in the tournament since its inception. I did not count the regional 3rd place games, back when they had them. I left them out because, in my opinion, they don't count. It's good to make teams feel better and make it worth the trip for fans, but it's not a tournament win because you don't move on.
They do count, and they are tournament wins. I think that most fans dismiss them as afterthoughts, and I'm certainly not one to place an importance on them that they don't merit. But they're in the record book for a reason. The NCAA recognizes their existence, and it's thus not a matter of debate as to whether or not they count.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 09:31:33 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 09:31:33 AM
Yeah, but all of those teams lost the games that matter. I don't think I can respect those streaks if they are held up by winning a 3rd place game. I included what the streaks that would have been, so that's as close to acknowledging them as I will probably get.
Maybe I should just change the title to teams that advanced in the tournament in consecutive years. That would be more accurate.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: mattgrubb on March 08, 2006, 09:37:58 AM
Post by: mattgrubb on March 08, 2006, 09:37:58 AM
hoopsfan,
i see your point, if it is not life or death why count it, the 3rd place games would be death or death
Your point proves mine that Randy Lambert was cut from the same mold as Chuck Norris
i see your point, if it is not life or death why count it, the 3rd place games would be death or death
Your point proves mine that Randy Lambert was cut from the same mold as Chuck Norris
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 09:42:11 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 09:42:11 AM
Quote from: mattgrubb on March 08, 2006, 09:37:58 AM
Your point proves mine that Randy Lambert was cut from the same mold as Chuck Norris
I'm not sure what that means, but you have positive karma and picture of Emelio Estevez, so I'm going to go out on a limb and agree.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 08, 2006, 09:46:01 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 08, 2006, 09:46:01 AM
To win a third place game wouldn't a team have already won a game before that? Or did it start out with 32 teams with eight regionals and every regional had a consolation game?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2006, 10:17:29 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2006, 10:17:29 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on March 08, 2006, 09:46:01 AM
Or did it start out with 32 teams with eight regionals and every regional had a consolation game?
Yep, that's it.
FWIW, Hoops Fan, I don't count third-place games of any stripe in the NCAA Tournament either.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 08, 2006, 10:57:53 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 08, 2006, 10:57:53 AM
Hoops Fan: It is always safe and sensible to agree with Murvul fans and posters!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 01:48:24 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 01:48:24 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2006, 10:17:29 AMQuote from: knightstalker on March 08, 2006, 09:46:01 AM
Or did it start out with 32 teams with eight regionals and every regional had a consolation game?
Yep, that's it.
FWIW, Hoops Fan, I don't count third-place games of any stripe in the NCAA Tournament either.
Ha Ha. Vindication! Although, you are aware Pat, being seen in agreement with me right now is going to cost you big time in d3hoops karma (even if it provides you truckloads of real karma).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 03:49:25 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 03:49:25 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 08, 2006, 01:48:24 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2006, 10:17:29 AMQuote from: knightstalker on March 08, 2006, 09:46:01 AM
Or did it start out with 32 teams with eight regionals and every regional had a consolation game?
Yep, that's it.
FWIW, Hoops Fan, I don't count third-place games of any stripe in the NCAA Tournament either.
Ha Ha. Vindication! Although, you are aware Pat, being seen in agreement with me right now is going to cost you big time in d3hoops karma (even if it provides you truckloads of real karma).
Pat's powers are lofty and prodigious, but even he doesn't outrank the NCAA. ;) The games are in the record book, so they count. Not just as game results, either; there are D3 tournament records that're derived from third-place games as well. F'rinstance, the single-game scoring record belongs to Gerald Reece of William Penn, who scored 49 in a regional third-place game against North Park in 1981.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2006, 12:32:59 PM
Ok, one more.
First time tourney winners from this year:
Farmingdale
Lincoln
Norwich
Stout
Utica
Villa Julie
Congratulations to all.
There was likely to be a bumper crop of teams picking up their first win in this year's tourney, since twelve schools made their D3 tourney debut this year -- the most since thirteen newbies appeared in the 2000 field. Twelve's a very large number of new participants, considering the fact that the tourney is now in its 32nd year. The new blood moving into the division has certainly helped keep the list of tourney participants from always being the same-old same-old, but at least two of the schools on your list (Utica and Norwich) have been D3 for eons. In fact, Norwich first made the tourney field back in 1984.
There's only been one year that the D3 tourney hasn't seen even one new participant, 1999. The most new teams that have appeared in the tournament (omitting the debut year of 1975, of course) is 1978, when 17 new teams made the tourney field. In 1995 and 1996, fourteen new teams apiece made the field. Of course, those were two of the three years in which D3 fielded a 64-team bracket.
For the record, here's this year's list of newbies:
SUNY-Farmingdale
UW-LaCrosse
Wisconsin Lutheran
Carroll
Lincoln
Messiah
Utica
Gordon
UW-Stout
Carleton
Villa Julie
Lake Erie
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:04:09 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:04:09 PM
MOST D3 TOURNEY APPEARANCES W/O A WIN:
Aurora -- 4
Endicott -- 4
York NY -- 4
Colby-Sawyer -- 3
Defiance -- 3
Gettysburg -- 3
Lasell -- 3
Maryville MO -- 3
Western New England -- 3
- 16 tied with 2 -
MOST D3 TOURNEY GAMES W/O A WIN:
Aurora -- 0-4
Endicott -- 0-4
Lynchburg -- 0-4
Manhattanville -- 0-4
York NY -- 0-4
Carnegie Mellon -- 0-3
Colby-Sawyer -- 0-3
Defiance -- 0-3
Gettysburg -- 0-3
Lasell -- 0-3
Maryville MO -- 0-3
Westfield State -- 0-3
Western New England -- 0-3
- 12 tied at 0-2 -
Aurora -- 4
Endicott -- 4
York NY -- 4
Colby-Sawyer -- 3
Defiance -- 3
Gettysburg -- 3
Lasell -- 3
Maryville MO -- 3
Western New England -- 3
- 16 tied with 2 -
MOST D3 TOURNEY GAMES W/O A WIN:
Aurora -- 0-4
Endicott -- 0-4
Lynchburg -- 0-4
Manhattanville -- 0-4
York NY -- 0-4
Carnegie Mellon -- 0-3
Colby-Sawyer -- 0-3
Defiance -- 0-3
Gettysburg -- 0-3
Lasell -- 0-3
Maryville MO -- 0-3
Westfield State -- 0-3
Western New England -- 0-3
- 12 tied at 0-2 -
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2006, 04:04:41 PM
Post by: dewcrew88 on March 08, 2006, 04:04:41 PM
There was likely to be a bumper crop of teams picking up their first win in this year's tourney, since twelve schools made their D3 tourney debut this year -- the most since thirteen newbies appeared in the 2000 field. Twelve's a very large number of new participants, considering the fact that the tourney is now in its 32nd year. The new blood moving into the division has certainly helped keep the list of tourney participants from always being the same-old same-old, but at least two of the schools on your list (Utica and Norwich) have been D3 for eons. In fact, Norwich first made the tourney field back in 1984.
There's only been one year that the D3 tourney hasn't seen even one new participant, 1999. The most new teams that have appeared in the tournament (omitting the debut year of 1975, of course) is 1978, when 17 new teams made the tourney field. In 1995 and 1996, fourteen new teams apiece made the field. Of course, those were two of the three years in which D3 fielded a 64-team bracket.
For the record, here's this year's list of newbies:
SUNY-Farmingdale
UW-LaCrosse
Wisconsin Lutheran
Carroll
Lincoln
Messiah
Utica
Gordon
UW-Stout
Carleton
Villa Julie
Lake Erie
Quote
Utica was actually a Division I program for a while back in the 1980s. Larry Costello, a coach who led the Bucks for a few seasons, was UC's coach at that time... I think we almost beat Syracuse back then :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:20:23 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:20:23 PM
Quote from: budcrew08 on March 08, 2006, 04:04:41 PMUtica was actually a Division I program for a while back in the 1980s. Larry Costello, a coach who led the Bucks for a few seasons, was UC's coach at that time... I think we almost beat Syracuse back then :)
Yeah, I remember that era. Utica began as a D3 school in the division's early years, but moved to D1 in 1980 when Costello came on board. He retired after the 1987 season, when Utica announced that it was going back to D3. Good decision, since Costello only managed one winning season. His record at Utica (and, thus, Utica's final D1 record) was only 77-106.
Costello was a native central New Yorker, born in the Syracuse suburb of Minoa. He played for Niagara University in Niagara Falls (better known now as Calvin Murphy's alma mater) and the Syracuse Nats were one of the NBA teams for which he played. He was one of the last players in the NBA to use the two-handed set shot.
The most interesting fact about Costello is that Niagara retired his uniform number, but it's not likely that the Purple Eagles will ever need it, anyway. Why? Because Costello wore #69. He adopted that number after he played 69 minutes and 40 seconds of a possible 70 minutes in a six-overtime victory over Siena in 1953. Now that's what I call a workout!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 04:24:11 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2006, 04:24:11 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:04:09 PM
MOST D3 TOURNEY GAMES W/O A WIN:
Washington & Lee -- 0-6
Washington & Lee won their first round game back in 1978.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:56:43 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:56:43 PM
Right you are. Dunno how I could've missed that. I'll correct the list.
My apologies to the Generals.
My apologies to the Generals.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on March 08, 2006, 05:49:42 PM
Post by: Titan Q on March 08, 2006, 05:49:42 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 08, 2006, 04:04:09 PM
MOST D3 TOURNEY APPEARANCES W/O A WIN:
Aurora -- 4
Endicott -- 4
York NY -- 4
Colby-Sawyer -- 3
Defiance -- 3
Gettysburg -- 3
Lasell -- 3
Maryville MO -- 3
Western New England -- 3
- 16 tied with 2 -
MOST D3 TOURNEY GAMES W/O A WIN:
Aurora -- 0-4
Endicott -- 0-4
Lynchburg -- 0-4
Manhattanville -- 0-4
York NY -- 0-4
Carnegie Mellon -- 0-3
Colby-Sawyer -- 0-3
Defiance -- 0-3
Gettysburg -- 0-3
Lasell -- 0-3
Maryville MO -- 0-3
Westfield State -- 0-3
Western New England -- 0-3
- 12 tied at 0-2 -
Aurora won @ Trinity (Tx) in 2003...
http://www.d3hoops.com/story.php?story=18181
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: lilphil on March 08, 2006, 05:51:18 PM
Post by: lilphil on March 08, 2006, 05:51:18 PM
Sager,
Aurora is actually 1- 4.
Lost at Wabash 1998
Lost at Wash U 2001
Won at Trinity Texas in 2003.
Lost at Occidental 2003
Lost at Home vs Calvin 2005
Aurora is actually 1- 4.
Lost at Wabash 1998
Lost at Wash U 2001
Won at Trinity Texas in 2003.
Lost at Occidental 2003
Lost at Home vs Calvin 2005
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 12:47:37 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 09, 2006, 12:47:37 AM
Man, my recordkeeping has some holes in it. Thanks for pointing those out, folks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 09:09:04 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 09, 2006, 09:09:04 AM
I have a list of teams that have won games in the tournament since its inception. As far as I can tell, besides those two mistakes, the rest of that list is good.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2006, 10:08:46 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2006, 10:08:46 AM
D3hoopsNet, under contract from NCAAsports.com, will be broadcasting the entire Virginia Wesleyan sectional. Coverage starts a half-hour before tipoff and includes a preview of all four sectionals, plus in-game "live look-ins" at other sectionals in progress.
Pat Coleman and Dave McHugh on the call.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
All D3hoopsNet games are broadcast by Broadcastmonsters.com.
Pat Coleman and Dave McHugh on the call.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
All D3hoopsNet games are broadcast by Broadcastmonsters.com.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 10:35:21 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 10, 2006, 10:35:21 AM
Pat Coleman on the call? Couldn't you have gotten a real broadcaster?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 10, 2006, 04:04:04 PM
Post by: smedindy on March 10, 2006, 04:04:04 PM
Broadcasting hoop games is easy as pie...take it from someone who used to do it!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2006, 03:26:43 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2006, 03:26:43 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2006, 10:35:21 AM
Pat Coleman on the call? Couldn't you have gotten a real broadcaster?
Bob Costas wouldn't work on a D-III budget. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2006, 10:27:08 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2006, 10:27:08 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2006, 03:26:43 AMQuote from: Hoops Fan on March 10, 2006, 10:35:21 AM
Pat Coleman on the call? Couldn't you have gotten a real broadcaster?
Bob Costas wouldn't work on a D-III budget. :)
No, I said a real broadcaster.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2006, 10:45:51 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 11, 2006, 10:45:51 AM
Congrats to Lincoln, way to represent the B's well. It's a shame they got matched up with the only other team in the bracket who can be considered a national contender.
Good showing though and here's hoping we hear Myrick's name on draft day. Scoring over 100 points in three tournament games is pretty impressive.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 11, 2006, 10:31:05 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 11, 2006, 10:31:05 PM
Hoops Fan:
Thanks for your congratulations, the Lions drew VA Wesleyan, a tough draw in itself, and then to almost pull off a win in their house was a valiant effort. I hope we hear about Kyle next year in the Big League. It would be a great story for both Lincoln and D3 basketball.
Thanks for your congratulations, the Lions drew VA Wesleyan, a tough draw in itself, and then to almost pull off a win in their house was a valiant effort. I hope we hear about Kyle next year in the Big League. It would be a great story for both Lincoln and D3 basketball.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Coach C on March 13, 2006, 11:52:52 AM
Post by: Coach C on March 13, 2006, 11:52:52 AM
As somoeone who has done it badly several times, I can tell you there is NOTHING easy about broadcasting.
C
C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 14, 2006, 12:47:46 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 14, 2006, 12:47:46 PM
Lincoln's sole senior is Kyle Myrick. Myrick will be a big loss (Nations leading scorer, no. 2 in both assists and steals), but Coach Yuille has a strong nucleus returning. Guards Sami Wylie, Tyreek Byard, coupled with Darryl White & Thomas Hickson, and the other returnees should continue to get the job done.
Coach Yuille in just two short years has established a solid foundation for Lincoln University Basketball. Hopefully Coach Yuille will get some consideration for Coach of the Year.
Coach Yuille in just two short years has established a solid foundation for Lincoln University Basketball. Hopefully Coach Yuille will get some consideration for Coach of the Year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2006, 03:17:55 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 14, 2006, 03:17:55 PM
I think he is deserving of consideration, but Tharp at Lawrence is probably the prohibitive favorite after the undefeated regular season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hugenerd on March 15, 2006, 10:49:42 AM
Post by: hugenerd on March 15, 2006, 10:49:42 AM
They should put a milestone up for Myrick scoring 1000 in a single season. That is ridiculous, imagine if he played 4 years.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2006, 11:13:25 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 15, 2006, 11:13:25 AM
1010 points in 30 games is quite impressive. Although, even if he played four years at that pace, he would barely beat Pete Maravich, who only played three years and never hit a three pointer. That's something crazy to think about.
John Grotberg at Grinnell scored 723 as a freshman. If he stays healthy for four years, he could approach the d3 scoring record.
John Grotberg at Grinnell scored 723 as a freshman. If he stays healthy for four years, he could approach the d3 scoring record.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 16, 2006, 10:01:15 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 16, 2006, 10:01:15 AM
hugenerd:
I saw the ESPN "Outside the Lines" ( as a matter of fact, I taped it). It was very good that ESPN "spotlighted" DIII Basketball.
Of course as a Lincoln Alum, I was just as upset with the Lions loss to VA Wesleyan as the team and coaches were. They did a good job highlighting Lincoln & IWU in particular and DIII Basketball in general.
I saw the ESPN "Outside the Lines" ( as a matter of fact, I taped it). It was very good that ESPN "spotlighted" DIII Basketball.
Of course as a Lincoln Alum, I was just as upset with the Lions loss to VA Wesleyan as the team and coaches were. They did a good job highlighting Lincoln & IWU in particular and DIII Basketball in general.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 16, 2006, 10:09:35 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 16, 2006, 10:09:35 AM
Hoops Fan:
I agree with on Grinnell's John Grotberg potential assault on the d3 record.
I agree with on Grinnell's John Grotberg potential assault on the d3 record.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 16, 2006, 10:37:38 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 16, 2006, 10:37:38 AM
Grotberg will be hampered by only playing 22 games per year instead of 25, so GC is going to have to win the MWC a few times to get him some extra minutes.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 16, 2006, 11:33:47 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 16, 2006, 11:33:47 PM
So is there a handicap for not having to bother playing defense?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 17, 2006, 12:35:23 AM
Post by: smedindy on March 17, 2006, 12:35:23 AM
<under breath> Oh, no, here we go again </under breath>
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2006, 09:05:54 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2006, 09:05:54 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 16, 2006, 11:33:47 PM
So is there a handicap for not having to bother playing defense?
Ironically, the top three teams in steals per game this year all run system ball.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2006, 12:19:04 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2006, 12:19:04 PM
I have not seen Puget Sound play, but what I glean from the discussions is that UPS (13.79 spg) and McMurry (13.78 spg) play a more aggressive up-tempo style and are #4 and #5 in D3 spg.
Bob Quillman was quite complimentary of UPS' aggressive style of play.
This should be interesting to follow. McMurry is finishing the first year of the return of Assistant Coach Russell Vanlandingham to McMurry.
Bob Quillman was quite complimentary of UPS' aggressive style of play.
This should be interesting to follow. McMurry is finishing the first year of the return of Assistant Coach Russell Vanlandingham to McMurry.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2006, 12:20:21 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2006, 12:20:21 PM
An uptempo offense always starts with good defense, at least a successful one does.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 17, 2006, 12:38:47 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 17, 2006, 12:38:47 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 17, 2006, 12:20:21 PM
An uptempo offense always starts with good defense, at least a successful one does.
Which is why Rileys showtime Lakers were so good and the Loyola Marymount team was so good.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2006, 01:03:57 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2006, 01:03:57 PM
Exactly, it is in tempo. You can play up-tempo offense and aggressive defense, especially if you do not let a team walk the ball up the court.
The idea is to shorten the offensive cycle (16 secs average instead of 34 secs average) so that you are getting back to play defense. You are pushing the score to the high 90's. That disrupts the team's sets.
Midwesterners do not seem to fancy the style of play aesthetically. It also makes their half-court style vulnerable to dissolution and chaos.
However, the idea is to win games. Retrospectively, it may be that the UPS game was the toughest challenge that IWU saw.
The idea is to shorten the offensive cycle (16 secs average instead of 34 secs average) so that you are getting back to play defense. You are pushing the score to the high 90's. That disrupts the team's sets.
Midwesterners do not seem to fancy the style of play aesthetically. It also makes their half-court style vulnerable to dissolution and chaos.
However, the idea is to win games. Retrospectively, it may be that the UPS game was the toughest challenge that IWU saw.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2006, 03:11:44 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 17, 2006, 03:11:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2006, 01:03:57 PM
Retrospectively, it may be that the UPS game was the toughest challenge that IWU saw.
Although, a lot of that has to do with the way a game is called. A typical agressive defense relies on the game being called liberally, with fewer fouls and more contact allowed. UPS seemed to benefit from the stricter refs. EVen that goes against the grain.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: northb on March 19, 2006, 03:02:45 PM
Post by: northb on March 19, 2006, 03:02:45 PM
So has anyone ever been very effective with this style of play at this level?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 19, 2006, 06:13:52 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 19, 2006, 06:13:52 PM
Congratulations to Lincoln University's Kyle "Fase" Myrick on being named D3Hoops National Player of the Year. Kyle and Coach Garfield Yuille has had a tremendous impact on Lincoln's Baskeball program.
It is well known that Kyle has had some difficulties in the past. I'm sure he thanks Lincoln for the opportunity to play basketball. I'm equally sure D3 Basketball has benefitted from his play as much as he has benefitted from playing aganist great players and programs in D3. Maybe the D3 gurus would know the answer, but when was the last time a D3 player, (or for that matter any college division) has led the nation in scoring, and was second in both assists and steals? Kyle is a special person and I wish him much success in the future.
The upsets in the D1 tourney has me convinced even more, that there exists very fine lines between the "so called" power conferences and the other D1 conferences. I would even suggest they would be very competitive games between D1 schools aganist D2 & D3 institutions.
Congratulations are also in order to the D3 Hoops family for giving us D3 Hoops "junkies" a wonderful ride this year.
I believe I read that some are predicting VA Wesleyan as the pre-season No. 1 next year and rightfully so. Don't forget Lincoln who loses only Kyle (abeit a big loss), and may have some good players coming in.
It is well known that Kyle has had some difficulties in the past. I'm sure he thanks Lincoln for the opportunity to play basketball. I'm equally sure D3 Basketball has benefitted from his play as much as he has benefitted from playing aganist great players and programs in D3. Maybe the D3 gurus would know the answer, but when was the last time a D3 player, (or for that matter any college division) has led the nation in scoring, and was second in both assists and steals? Kyle is a special person and I wish him much success in the future.
The upsets in the D1 tourney has me convinced even more, that there exists very fine lines between the "so called" power conferences and the other D1 conferences. I would even suggest they would be very competitive games between D1 schools aganist D2 & D3 institutions.
Congratulations are also in order to the D3 Hoops family for giving us D3 Hoops "junkies" a wonderful ride this year.
I believe I read that some are predicting VA Wesleyan as the pre-season No. 1 next year and rightfully so. Don't forget Lincoln who loses only Kyle (abeit a big loss), and may have some good players coming in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2006, 10:33:24 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 19, 2006, 10:33:24 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 17, 2006, 03:11:44 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on March 17, 2006, 01:03:57 PM
Retrospectively, it may be that the UPS game was the toughest challenge that IWU saw.
Although, a lot of that has to do with the way a game is called. A typical agressive defense relies on the game being called liberally, with fewer fouls and more contact allowed. UPS seemed to benefit from the stricter refs. EVen that goes against the grain.
I also think that very good players, with hands so quick that they can steal a ball without "mugging the player" require a very good referee.
From 1997-2000, McMurry had a guard named Daniel Martinez who led the country in steals. (His 3-year total in D3 is 2nd; McMurry was provisional his freshman year so those stats don't count).
Also, it takes a very good referee to call a clean block!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2006, 10:54:34 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 19, 2006, 10:54:34 PM
And, of course, where they REALLY earn their paychecks is charging vs. blocking. I saw one this evening in D1 (UNC vs. George Mason, I think, but wouldn't swear to it). The offensive player (let's say UNC) drove to the basket and launched a totally out-of-control lay-up. He slammed into a defensive player, slamming him into the floor. The blocking call was probably technically correct (the GM player moved), but I suspect that was self-survival instinct! By the intent of the rule, I would judge it clearly an offensive foul.
Oh well, Big Blue is dead! MSU can feel a bit less embarrassed about losing to George Mason now! They are for real.
Oh well, Big Blue is dead! MSU can feel a bit less embarrassed about losing to George Mason now! They are for real.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2006, 09:33:11 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 20, 2006, 09:33:11 AM
I just think its great that either George Mason or Wichita State will get to play for a trip to the final four. That's how college basketball should be.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on March 20, 2006, 09:48:33 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on March 20, 2006, 09:48:33 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on March 19, 2006, 06:13:52 PM
The upsets in the D1 tourney has me convinced even more, that there exists very fine lines between the "so called" power conferences and the other D1 conferences. I would even suggest they would be very competitive games between D1 schools aganist D2 & D3 institutions.
Well, maybe, but only as long as the D3 teams stay away from extremely physical D1 teams such as Memphis (witness the
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 09:26:35 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 09:26:35 PM
Meaning no offense to njlincolnlion, but we all know he will predict a glorious future for Lincoln. (Just as I'll remind people over and over [and over ;D] that IWU, after placing 3rd nationally in 1996 and graduating 4 of 5 starters, won the whole she'bang in 1997, so next year...!) Does anyone else think Lincoln will remain nationally competitive, or was Kyle Myrick a 'Larry Bird at Indiana State' sort of situation?
[This is NOT meant as a challenge or a smart-ass put-down - I know almost nothing about Lincoln aside from Myrick, and am truly wondering how others see it. Are they truly a team on the rise, or a one-year wonder due to a gifted player?]
[This is NOT meant as a challenge or a smart-ass put-down - I know almost nothing about Lincoln aside from Myrick, and am truly wondering how others see it. Are they truly a team on the rise, or a one-year wonder due to a gifted player?]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 08:56:45 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 08:56:45 AM
I think they have a solid team coming back. Myrick's assists will be harder to replace than his points, in my opinion, but Yullie seems to have shown he can recruit well. They are independant, so as long as they don't schedule themselves into a corner, I think they can be competitive for a tournament bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on March 21, 2006, 09:06:39 AM
Post by: gordonmann on March 21, 2006, 09:06:39 AM
I'd take that a step further -- I think they'll end up in the Top 25 at some point next year (other than the preseason).
The difference between the 2004-2005 Lincoln team that lost in the first round of the playoffs and the 2005-2006 team that lost in the Sweet 16 was the growth of guys besides Myrick.
Hickson and White are very good young post players. Wylie is a threat from outside. And Byard will be able to blossom next year offensively.
They'll still be one of the strongest teams in the Mid-Atlantic region and that assumes they don't add any new pieces...
The difference between the 2004-2005 Lincoln team that lost in the first round of the playoffs and the 2005-2006 team that lost in the Sweet 16 was the growth of guys besides Myrick.
Hickson and White are very good young post players. Wylie is a threat from outside. And Byard will be able to blossom next year offensively.
They'll still be one of the strongest teams in the Mid-Atlantic region and that assumes they don't add any new pieces...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 09:41:13 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 09:41:13 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on March 21, 2006, 09:06:39 AM
The difference between the 2004-2005 Lincoln team that lost in the first round of the playoffs
Were they in the ECACs last year? I know they didn't make the NCAA field; they got left out in favor of NJCU.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: mattgrubb on March 21, 2006, 10:18:40 AM
Post by: mattgrubb on March 21, 2006, 10:18:40 AM
somebody needs to keep us updated on Myrick and his transition to the pro game
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 21, 2006, 10:40:48 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 21, 2006, 10:40:48 AM
Mr. Ypsi:
As Gordon Mann and Hoops Fan pointed out, Lincoln have a very good year during the 2004-2005 season (Coach Yuille's first season as Head Coach). The Lions missed the NCAA's due to two close losses to NJCU (As pointed out by Hoops Fan) that played as an independent that season. Coach Yuille's first season had Jarrett Kearse ( a transfer) who was first team All American, while Kyle Myrick was honorable mention. The 2004-2005 season was Kearse and Myrick, while this past year, Kyle had a better supporting cast. As a side note, John Bunch (Monmouth University - NJ 7'2" center led the nation in blocked shots as a Lincoln Freshman, before he transferred to the D1 school.
Coach Yuille (A Lincoln University & Overbrook High School - Philadelphia Alum) has done an outstanding job selling Lincoln to Philly HS players. Assistant Coach Eugene Lett, also has Philly AAU ties also, and Asst. Coach Brian has ties to the Baltimore MD area High Schools.
In summary, Lincoln has been developing a program, and the Last two years proved the Lions were no "one hit wonder". Coach Yuille has the Lions "pointed in the right direction", and should be a D3 "player" for the future.
As Gordon Mann and Hoops Fan pointed out, Lincoln have a very good year during the 2004-2005 season (Coach Yuille's first season as Head Coach). The Lions missed the NCAA's due to two close losses to NJCU (As pointed out by Hoops Fan) that played as an independent that season. Coach Yuille's first season had Jarrett Kearse ( a transfer) who was first team All American, while Kyle Myrick was honorable mention. The 2004-2005 season was Kearse and Myrick, while this past year, Kyle had a better supporting cast. As a side note, John Bunch (Monmouth University - NJ 7'2" center led the nation in blocked shots as a Lincoln Freshman, before he transferred to the D1 school.
Coach Yuille (A Lincoln University & Overbrook High School - Philadelphia Alum) has done an outstanding job selling Lincoln to Philly HS players. Assistant Coach Eugene Lett, also has Philly AAU ties also, and Asst. Coach Brian has ties to the Baltimore MD area High Schools.
In summary, Lincoln has been developing a program, and the Last two years proved the Lions were no "one hit wonder". Coach Yuille has the Lions "pointed in the right direction", and should be a D3 "player" for the future.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 21, 2006, 10:42:54 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 21, 2006, 10:42:54 AM
mattgrubb:
As information about Kyle Myrick's post collegiate career unfold, I'll post it here in D3 Hoops.
As information about Kyle Myrick's post collegiate career unfold, I'll post it here in D3 Hoops.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 11:05:06 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 11:05:06 AM
I think the one thing that Lincoln needs to do for basketball is to get affiliated with a conference. Nobody is going to want to play them if they keep on building like they have. they are fine in T&F as an independent but for bball they need to change in my opinion.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 11:06:26 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 11:06:26 AM
Isn't the I-7 looking for an 8th now?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 21, 2006, 11:07:24 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 21, 2006, 11:07:24 AM
Knightstalker: I was wondering along the same path....Is Lincoln independent in bball on purpose?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2006, 11:54:30 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 21, 2006, 11:54:30 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 11:05:06 AM
I think the one thing that Lincoln needs to do for basketball is to get affiliated with a conference. Nobody is going to want to play them if they keep on building like they have. they are fine in T&F as an independent but for bball they need to change in my opinion.
Knight, they are a state-affiliated school and just west of New Jersey.
Is the NJAC an option?
Would Lincoln's adding football make them even more attractive as a conference member?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 12:39:04 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 12:39:04 PM
The NJAC is too competitive for Lincoln. Why would they join a conference that has so many good teams every year unless it was a last option. I think they'd be better off getting into one of the other M-A conferences, although I think remaining independent is the best option, so long as they can continue to schedule decent competition in basketball.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 01:10:28 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 21, 2006, 01:10:28 PM
If Lincoln continues their success they will have a hard time scheduling quality teams as an independent, that is part of why NJCU went back to the NJAC after the bid to join the Skyline failed. If you are a good program many schools with the current selection criteria are hesitant to play you. I don't think they would fit in the NJAC due to the driving distances for the North NJ games and the NJAC is at ten teams right now which is the perfect conference size in D3 basketball. I would think the MAC, CAC and Centennial would all be interested in Lincoln. I think Lincoln is an institution that would be an asset to any conference they join. They have an outstanding T&F program and basketball team and it is an excellent school.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 01:13:12 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 21, 2006, 01:13:12 PM
Am I wrong or aren't they smack in the middle of the "new as yet unnamed conference, which recently lost its 8th member?"
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 04:39:02 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 04:39:02 PM
Guys, thanks for the feedback on Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 21, 2006, 08:27:07 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 21, 2006, 08:27:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 09:26:35 PM(Just as I'll remind people over and over [and over ;D] that IWU, after placing 3rd nationally in 1996 and graduating 4 of 5 starters, won the whole she'bang in 1997, so next year...!)
Chuck, you win the kewpie doll for making the first of what will undoubtedly be 5,000 references to this factoid on Posting Up by Illinois Wesleyan fans over the next year. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 08:36:41 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 08:36:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 21, 2006, 08:27:07 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 20, 2006, 09:26:35 PM(Just as I'll remind people over and over [and over ;D] that IWU, after placing 3rd nationally in 1996 and graduating 4 of 5 starters, won the whole she'bang in 1997, so next year...!)
Chuck, you win the kewpie doll for making the first of what will undoubtedly be 5,000 references to this factoid on Posting Up by Illinois Wesleyan fans over the next year. ;)
Well, objectively, things look comparatively bleak for next year - this keeps hope alive! ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on March 21, 2006, 08:40:38 PM
Post by: Titan Q on March 21, 2006, 08:40:38 PM
Chuck, IWU will be a pretty good team next year. Zach Freeman will be one of the best big guys in the country and the Titans have some good players who have been waiting their turn on the JV team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 09:02:48 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 09:02:48 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 21, 2006, 08:40:38 PM
Chuck, IWU will be a pretty good team next year. Zach Freeman will be one of the best big guys in the country and the Titans have some good players who have been waiting their turn on the JV team.
I certainly wasn't expecting them to drop off a cliff or anything; that's why I said 'comparatively' bleak - they're certainly NOT going to be pre-season #1! In fact, with those graduation losses, I'd be surprised if they get ANY pre-season top 25 votes. But I'd also be disappointed and surprised if they don't reach the top 25 at some point. Remember, I saw the JV play the alums last year - some real talent, and no doubt some good players I have NOT seen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on March 21, 2006, 09:10:47 PM
Post by: David Collinge on March 21, 2006, 09:10:47 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 09:02:48 PMIn fact, with those graduation losses, I'd be surprised if they get ANY pre-season top 25 votes.
It's been 36 weeks since IWU failed to receive any votes in a weekly poll, and they've never received fewer than 31 votes in a pre-season poll. IWU has received votes in 88 of the 108 polls, tied (with Catholic) for 7th-most in this category, just one poll behind 5th place (Amherst and Hampden-Sydney) and two behind 4th place UW-Whitewater. Only Wooster (108), UW-Stevens Point (101), and Wittenberg (99) have appeared in significantly more polls than the Titans.
Barring an unforseen catastrophe, the Titans will at least receive votes in the preseason poll, and may well be in the top 25.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on March 21, 2006, 09:19:27 PM
Post by: Titan Q on March 21, 2006, 09:19:27 PM
IWU won't deserve to be in the preseason Top 25 next year, but I think they'll have enough talent to make it pretty interesting as the season goes on.
Apologies to the Pool B board participants for holding this conversation here.
Apologies to the Pool B board participants for holding this conversation here.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 09:48:24 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 09:48:24 PM
David,
Yeah, NO votes may have been a touch of my usual hyperbole. The last time they graduated 4 starters (2003) was the time they got the 31 votes - then freshman Adam Dauksas was the returning starter. Their only returning starter this time is Zach Freeman, but after the show he put on in the tourney perhaps they WILL start near the bottom of the top 25, rather than out of it completely.
Yeah, NO votes may have been a touch of my usual hyperbole. The last time they graduated 4 starters (2003) was the time they got the 31 votes - then freshman Adam Dauksas was the returning starter. Their only returning starter this time is Zach Freeman, but after the show he put on in the tourney perhaps they WILL start near the bottom of the top 25, rather than out of it completely.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2006, 08:59:42 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 22, 2006, 08:59:42 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2006, 09:48:24 PM
Yeah, NO votes may have been a touch of my usual hyperbole.
Get out of my realm; I am the Supreme Grand Universal Overlord of Hyperbole. All bow before my exagerationality!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2006, 06:11:15 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 22, 2006, 06:11:15 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 21, 2006, 09:19:27 PM
IWU won't deserve to be in the preseason Top 25 next year, but I think they'll have enough talent to make it pretty interesting as the season goes on.
Apologies to the Pool B board participants for holding this conversation here.
I was starting to wonder if Illinois Wesleyan had left the CCIW and gone independent. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: damedoe on March 22, 2006, 06:24:29 PM
Post by: damedoe on March 22, 2006, 06:24:29 PM
Can you believe? I was reading the Philadelphia Daily News to see that the NABC name Kyle Myrick to Division 3 third team all american. Who are these guys did they ever once see him in action.THIRD TEAM RIDICULOUS!! FIRST TEAMER FOR SURE!!! P.S. I talked to him Sunday and he said he had an invite to Portsmouth.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 23, 2006, 08:37:34 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 23, 2006, 08:37:34 AM
damedoe:
It just goes to show how clueless some organizations anf they really don't follow division III basketball. The accurate information as far as I'm concerned is D3Hoops, and Myrick was named National POY :) .
It just goes to show how clueless some organizations anf they really don't follow division III basketball. The accurate information as far as I'm concerned is D3Hoops, and Myrick was named National POY :) .
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: damedoe on April 01, 2006, 12:55:50 PM
Post by: damedoe on April 01, 2006, 12:55:50 PM
Can you out there believe that Kyle Myrick didnt get invited to the Portsmouth Invitational. Thats BULL@#$@. This Basketball stuff is way to political!!! :'(
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2006, 03:16:57 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 01, 2006, 03:16:57 PM
That's alright, there's still Chicago and Phoenix, right?
I don't believe Devean George got invited to the PIT either, so there's plenty of precedent.
I don't believe Devean George got invited to the PIT either, so there's plenty of precedent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: mattgrubb on April 04, 2006, 12:19:18 PM
Post by: mattgrubb on April 04, 2006, 12:19:18 PM
This guy here loves maryville college!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2006, 09:01:43 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2006, 09:01:43 AM
So, with Lincoln expressing their intentions of dropping to D2, what is next in the process? Will they start giving scholarships right away or will they continue to opperate in d3 for a few more years? Are they still among the Bumblin' B's for the 2006-2007 season?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on April 19, 2006, 09:41:01 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on April 19, 2006, 09:41:01 AM
Hoops Fan:
From what I understand, the process dosen't occur immediately, and Lincoln will be competing next year at the DIII level with NO scholarship athletes. The 2007-2008 season will be a different story.
From what I understand, the process dosen't occur immediately, and Lincoln will be competing next year at the DIII level with NO scholarship athletes. The 2007-2008 season will be a different story.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 19, 2006, 09:51:16 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 19, 2006, 09:51:16 AM
So we can expect another Bumblin' B's run for Lincoln then in 2007?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 19, 2006, 11:53:38 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 19, 2006, 11:53:38 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=174#comment-2048
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 19, 2006, 12:55:14 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 19, 2006, 12:55:14 PM
I never think to look back at old blog entries for new comments. What a novel idea. Although I'm not sure I have the time for that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2006, 11:40:09 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2006, 11:40:09 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 19, 2006, 12:55:14 PM
I never think to look back at old blog entries for new comments. What a novel idea. Although I'm not sure I have the time for that.
Please use the search feature on the front page! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2006, 12:58:33 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2006, 12:58:33 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2006, 11:40:09 AMQuote from: Hoops Fan on April 19, 2006, 12:55:14 PM
I never think to look back at old blog entries for new comments. What a novel idea. Although I'm not sure I have the time for that.
Please use the search feature on the front page! ;)
That's why he's a Hall of Famer.
Well, that and the unparalleled grasp on the inner workings of the NCAA committee structure.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2006, 01:15:47 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2006, 01:15:47 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 20, 2006, 12:58:33 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on April 20, 2006, 11:40:09 AMQuote from: Hoops Fan on April 19, 2006, 12:55:14 PM
I never think to look back at old blog entries for new comments. What a novel idea. Although I'm not sure I have the time for that.
Please use the search feature on the front page! ;)
That's why he's a Hall of Famer.
Well, that and the unparalleled grasp (ing at straws*) on the inner workings of the NCAA committee structure.
*on some occasions! :-\ :(
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2006, 01:34:07 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 20, 2006, 01:34:07 PM
You still have it down better than the rest of us.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: diehardfan on April 20, 2006, 06:26:49 PM
Post by: diehardfan on April 20, 2006, 06:26:49 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on April 20, 2006, 01:34:07 PM
You still have it down better than the rest of us.
Couldn't miss the opportunity....
Yea Ralph! ;D ;)
I sometimes add comments to blogs after people have stopped reading them... it's fun. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 21, 2006, 09:08:18 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 21, 2006, 09:08:18 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on April 20, 2006, 06:26:49 PM
I sometimes add comments to blogs after people have stopped reading them... it's fun.
So you're the one!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: cnufan on May 03, 2006, 01:27:42 PM
Post by: cnufan on May 03, 2006, 01:27:42 PM
Is Lincoln still trying to go D2? I heard a rumor they were thinking about moving up a step.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 03, 2006, 02:52:13 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 03, 2006, 02:52:13 PM
Lincoln is going, but they will still be a full d3 for at least one more year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2006, 08:40:39 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 03, 2006, 08:40:39 PM
Quote from: Goose13 on May 03, 2006, 01:27:42 PM
Is Lincoln still trying to go D2? I heard a rumor they were thinking about moving up a step.
We had an extensive discussion in the Daily Dose to that end a few weeks back.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on May 05, 2006, 01:36:01 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on May 05, 2006, 01:36:01 PM
Lincoln University's Kyle Myrick was drafted by the USBL NEPA Breakers in the 4th round. The Breakers drafted Syracuse's Gerry McNamara in the 1st round.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2006, 09:02:45 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 06, 2006, 09:02:45 AM
Best wishes to Kyle!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on August 08, 2006, 11:01:13 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on August 08, 2006, 11:01:13 AM
Can't wait for Roundball this season. It will be interesting to see if Lincoln will be ranked in the preseason poll. I know........I know, we haven't started football yet?, but the Lions don't have a football team yet!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2006, 09:55:27 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2006, 09:55:27 PM
The 2007 Men's Basketball (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) Handbook is out!
There are 37 Pool A bids, 3 Pool B bids and 19 Pool C bids to be allocated this year.
There are 37 Pool B teams and the Pool A access ratio for men's basketball is 1:9.32.
The Pool B allocation was calculated this way:
37 teams divided by 9.32 (Access allocation ratio) = 3.97 which is truncated to 3 bids (not rounded up to 4 bids).
This should be the last year for the Pres AC and its 7 members.
Lincoln PA should be in its last year of D3 before it moves to D2.
Colorado College is moving to the SCAC in 2007-08.
Clarke (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=769) has announced that it is going to the NAIA in 2007-08.
The early contenders include (1) the GSAC Members (Maryville TN earned the Pool B in 2006), (2) the Northern Athletics Conference, (dubbed the NAthCon, members from the old Lake Michigan Conference plus the remaining NIIC members), Independents such as Lincoln and Chapman, and the Pres AC.
There are 37 Pool A bids, 3 Pool B bids and 19 Pool C bids to be allocated this year.
There are 37 Pool B teams and the Pool A access ratio for men's basketball is 1:9.32.
The Pool B allocation was calculated this way:
37 teams divided by 9.32 (Access allocation ratio) = 3.97 which is truncated to 3 bids (not rounded up to 4 bids).
This should be the last year for the Pres AC and its 7 members.
Lincoln PA should be in its last year of D3 before it moves to D2.
Colorado College is moving to the SCAC in 2007-08.
Clarke (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=769) has announced that it is going to the NAIA in 2007-08.
The early contenders include (1) the GSAC Members (Maryville TN earned the Pool B in 2006), (2) the Northern Athletics Conference, (dubbed the NAthCon, members from the old Lake Michigan Conference plus the remaining NIIC members), Independents such as Lincoln and Chapman, and the Pres AC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 17, 2006, 10:06:46 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 17, 2006, 10:06:46 PM
Thanks for the heads-up, Ralph! 19 pool Cs better be enough to all-but-guarantee the CCIW two spots, and should allow a third if they don't screw up (or beat each others chances to death)!
If I was the fourth pool B, I'd be pretty ticked that 3.97 goes to 3 not 4! (But if they are truly worthy, they can get a C.)
If I was the fourth pool B, I'd be pretty ticked that 3.97 goes to 3 not 4! (But if they are truly worthy, they can get a C.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2006, 09:02:38 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 18, 2006, 09:02:38 AM
Yeah, that's a good point Ypsi. The 4th Pool B team should be as good as the 19th pool C team, at least in terms of the criteria looked at by the selection committee anyway.
I'm just stunned that the handbook is out already. I hadn't even started checking for it yet. Way to go NCAA. (Also, never thought I'd say that.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2006, 03:42:16 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2006, 03:42:16 PM
Ralph:
Thanks for the the info. I hope Lincoln leaves D3 with a bang this year. If I recall, the Lions margin of defeat to eventual champs VA Weseylan was only 1, and it was at their place.
On the bright side, the Lions don't have the "Frequent Flyer" schedule award this year, although, we have more D2 schools on the schedule than last year. The Lions play Widener, and North Central in tournaments this year, and should be some good games, along with NJAC NJCU and Ramapo.
Thanks for the the info. I hope Lincoln leaves D3 with a bang this year. If I recall, the Lions margin of defeat to eventual champs VA Weseylan was only 1, and it was at their place.
On the bright side, the Lions don't have the "Frequent Flyer" schedule award this year, although, we have more D2 schools on the schedule than last year. The Lions play Widener, and North Central in tournaments this year, and should be some good games, along with NJAC NJCU and Ramapo.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 18, 2006, 06:53:04 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 18, 2006, 06:53:04 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 18, 2006, 09:02:38 AM
Yeah, that's a good point Ypsi. The 4th Pool B team should be as good as the 19th pool C team, at least in terms of the criteria looked at by the selection committee anyway.
That's not necessarily true in recent years (and why it stings a bit that Bs can be Cs, but Cs can't be Bs). Don't forget that there is a reason this board is called the BUMBLIN' Bs! ;D
And, yes, I do remember that it got its name before expansion of the tourney.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2006, 08:55:58 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2006, 08:55:58 AM
Remember, I said in the criteria that the selection committee looks at. Since the drop to 3 Pool B slots, and the addition of the extra Pool C's the 4th B has been in the conversation.
Although I guess it was just last year that the numbers changed. You're the statistician, can one year be a pattern?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2006, 10:14:35 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 19, 2006, 10:14:35 AM
From the front page: Clarke is leaving d3 after this year, so there is another B on its farewell tour.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: cardinalpride on October 22, 2006, 12:54:04 PM
Post by: cardinalpride on October 22, 2006, 12:54:04 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2006, 03:42:16 PMNj, I'm looking forward to that showdown in Orlando this year! That should be a good one. How will Lincoln look without all american guard Kyle Myrick?
Ralph:
Thanks for the the info. I hope Lincoln leaves D3 with a bang this year. If I recall, the Lions margin of defeat to eventual champs VA Weseylan was only 1, and it was at their place.
On the bright side, the Lions don't have the "Frequent Flyer" schedule award this year, although, we have more D2 schools on the schedule than last year. The Lions play Widener, and North Central in tournaments this year, and should be some good games, along with NJAC NJCU and Ramapo.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 23, 2006, 10:05:20 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 23, 2006, 10:05:20 AM
cardinalpride:
I'm am also looking foward to the North Central/Lincoln game in Orlando. Two teams from last year's postseason play should be very good.
As you pointed out, Lincoln will be without Kyle Myrick (A HUGE LOSS), but the team returns everyone else, along with some talented freshmen. Senior sharpshooter 3 pointer terror (pre-season all america) has his turn at leading the Lions this year. Wylie follows Jarrett Kearse (two years ago) and Kyle Myrick as a pre-season all american candidate.
I pray that both North Central and Lincoln are both healthy for their game, and remain injury free for the entire season.
I'm am also looking foward to the North Central/Lincoln game in Orlando. Two teams from last year's postseason play should be very good.
As you pointed out, Lincoln will be without Kyle Myrick (A HUGE LOSS), but the team returns everyone else, along with some talented freshmen. Senior sharpshooter 3 pointer terror (pre-season all america) has his turn at leading the Lions this year. Wylie follows Jarrett Kearse (two years ago) and Kyle Myrick as a pre-season all american candidate.
I pray that both North Central and Lincoln are both healthy for their game, and remain injury free for the entire season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: cardinalpride on October 23, 2006, 05:59:56 PM
Post by: cardinalpride on October 23, 2006, 05:59:56 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on October 23, 2006, 10:05:20 AMIt should be a good one!
cardinalpride:
I'm am also looking foward to the North Central/Lincoln game in Orlando. Two teams from last year's postseason play should be very good.
As you pointed out, Lincoln will be without Kyle Myrick (A HUGE LOSS), but the team returns everyone else, along with some talented freshmen. Senior sharpshooter 3 pointer terror (pre-season all america) has his turn at leading the Lions this year. Wylie follows Jarrett Kearse (two years ago) and Kyle Myrick as a pre-season all american candidate.
I pray that both North Central and Lincoln are both healthy for their game, and remain injury free for the entire season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 02, 2006, 09:08:47 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 02, 2006, 09:08:47 AM
Lincoln enters the 06-07 season ranked #16 preseason.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 14, 2006, 10:21:03 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 14, 2006, 10:21:03 AM
Let the Games Begin!
"In the jungle , the mighty jungle, the Lions sleeps tonight". Lincoln is poised to pounce on some teams this year. The Lions first game aganist Widener should be a good barometer for both squads.
GO LIONS!
"In the jungle , the mighty jungle, the Lions sleeps tonight". Lincoln is poised to pounce on some teams this year. The Lions first game aganist Widener should be a good barometer for both squads.
GO LIONS!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ohyeah on November 14, 2006, 10:35:52 AM
Post by: ohyeah on November 14, 2006, 10:35:52 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on October 23, 2006, 10:05:20 AM
cardinalpride:
As you pointed out, Lincoln will be without Kyle Myrick (A HUGE LOSS), but the team returns everyone else, along with some talented freshmen. Senior sharpshooter 3 pointer terror (pre-season all america) has his turn at leading the Lions this year. Wylie follows Jarrett Kearse (two years ago) and Kyle Myrick as a pre-season all american candidate.
What is Myrick doing now? Is he playing overseas? I never heard.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 15, 2006, 08:14:05 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 15, 2006, 08:14:05 AM
ohyeah:
The last info on Myrick was that he was drafted and playing with the Northeast PA Breakers in the USBL.
The last info on Myrick was that he was drafted and playing with the Northeast PA Breakers in the USBL.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 19, 2006, 10:31:34 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 19, 2006, 10:31:34 PM
Lincoln wins the Franklin & Marshall Tip-Off Tournament, by defeating Widener (in OT) in the first round and handily beating Delaware Valley in the championship game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on November 27, 2006, 07:58:35 PM
Post by: TeeDub on November 27, 2006, 07:58:35 PM
Quote from: cardinalpride on October 22, 2006, 12:54:04 PMQuote from: njlincolnlion on October 18, 2006, 03:42:16 PMNj, I'm looking forward to that showdown in Orlando this year! That should be a good one. How will Lincoln look without all american guard Kyle Myrick?
Ralph:
Thanks for the the info. I hope Lincoln leaves D3 with a bang this year. If I recall, the Lions margin of defeat to eventual champs VA Weseylan was only 1, and it was at their place.
On the bright side, the Lions don't have the "Frequent Flyer" schedule award this year, although, we have more D2 schools on the schedule than last year. The Lions play Widener, and North Central in tournaments this year, and should be some good games, along with NJAC NJCU and Ramapo.
Now that defenses will probably start keying on D. Dean, Wylie will surely start coming into some of his 'last season' form.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 29, 2006, 09:48:10 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 29, 2006, 09:48:10 AM
Jordis:
In addition to Dean, freshman guard Ja'Juan Robinson is a handful, and someone opposing teams have to look out for. I think Lincoln's "3 pronged" offensive weapons will prove more difficult than the "2 pronged" Myrick/Wylie" game from last year.
We get NJCU tonight at Lincoln tonight, and the owe the Githic Knights for knocking the Lions out :( of the NCAA's two years ago.
In addition to Dean, freshman guard Ja'Juan Robinson is a handful, and someone opposing teams have to look out for. I think Lincoln's "3 pronged" offensive weapons will prove more difficult than the "2 pronged" Myrick/Wylie" game from last year.
We get NJCU tonight at Lincoln tonight, and the owe the Githic Knights for knocking the Lions out :( of the NCAA's two years ago.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 29, 2006, 12:47:30 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 29, 2006, 12:47:30 PM
This is the last year that Lincoln will be elligible for the d3 tournament, right? Maybe it's time for them to make a big run and go out with a bang.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 29, 2006, 05:55:25 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on November 29, 2006, 05:55:25 PM
Hoops Fan:
I certainly hope you're right! Lincoln played VA Wesleyan and lost by 1 point (which I believe was the Marlins closet margin of victory in the NCAA's last year).
Although Myrick was a big loss, the scoring is more diversified this year with the Lions. A tough game tonight with NJCU (at home) along with North Central (in Orlando) and Ramapo and NJCU on their campus.
I certainly hope you're right! Lincoln played VA Wesleyan and lost by 1 point (which I believe was the Marlins closet margin of victory in the NCAA's last year).
Although Myrick was a big loss, the scoring is more diversified this year with the Lions. A tough game tonight with NJCU (at home) along with North Central (in Orlando) and Ramapo and NJCU on their campus.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 02, 2006, 01:53:50 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 02, 2006, 01:53:50 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on November 29, 2006, 05:55:25 PM
I certainly hope you're right! Lincoln played VA Wesleyan and lost by 1 point (which I believe was the Marlins closet margin of victory in the NCAA's last year).
Well I know for a fact it was at least tied for the closest margin of victory.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 02, 2006, 02:08:44 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 02, 2006, 02:08:44 PM
So how bad was that team for Lincoln to score 200 points on them?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on December 02, 2006, 04:08:55 PM
Post by: hopefan on December 02, 2006, 04:08:55 PM
I looked up Ohio St Marion - they play in a regional campus league of schools - regional campuses of Ohio St, Kent St, Ohio University, Kent State, Indiana University, Cincinatti. Pitt Bradford and Penn State Behrand evolved from this type of system into pretty decent D3 programs, but generally, these schools are for kids who couldn't get into the main campus academicly or who preferred a smaller campus close to home for either their first two years or the whole 4 years - many times finances come into play too
Marion actually has won a game against another regional school this year- they also play some NAIA schools (they've been crushed by Ohio Dominican and Mt Vernon Naz), and have Georgetown Kentucky coming up. They also play Wittenburg twice - the Witt JV - and the Ashland College "Club Team". They have no D3 team scheduled.
One must wonder if Lincoln could have pulled it back...just a tad
Marion actually has won a game against another regional school this year- they also play some NAIA schools (they've been crushed by Ohio Dominican and Mt Vernon Naz), and have Georgetown Kentucky coming up. They also play Wittenburg twice - the Witt JV - and the Ashland College "Club Team". They have no D3 team scheduled.
One must wonder if Lincoln could have pulled it back...just a tad
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2006, 09:48:59 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2006, 09:48:59 PM
Quote from: hopefan on December 02, 2006, 04:08:55 PM
I looked up Ohio St Marion - they play in a regional campus league of schools - regional campuses of Ohio St, Kent St, Ohio University, Kent State, Indiana University, Cincinatti. Pitt Bradford and Penn State Behrand evolved from this type of system into pretty decent D3 programs, but generally, these schools are for kids who couldn't get into the main campus academicly or who preferred a smaller campus close to home for either their first two years or the whole 4 years - many times finances come into play too
Marion actually has won a game against another regional school this year- they also play some NAIA schools (they've been crushed by Ohio Dominican and Mt Vernon Naz), and have Georgetown Kentucky coming up. They also play Wittenburg twice - the Witt JV - and the Ashland College "Club Team". They have no D3 team scheduled.
One must wonder if Lincoln could have pulled it back...just a tad
If this is the case, then this performance may end up with an asterisk!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 02, 2006, 11:37:54 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 02, 2006, 11:37:54 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2006, 09:48:59 PMQuote from: hopefan on December 02, 2006, 04:08:55 PM
I looked up Ohio St Marion - they play in a regional campus league of schools - regional campuses of Ohio St, Kent St, Ohio University, Kent State, Indiana University, Cincinatti. Pitt Bradford and Penn State Behrand evolved from this type of system into pretty decent D3 programs, but generally, these schools are for kids who couldn't get into the main campus academicly or who preferred a smaller campus close to home for either their first two years or the whole 4 years - many times finances come into play too
Marion actually has won a game against another regional school this year- they also play some NAIA schools (they've been crushed by Ohio Dominican and Mt Vernon Naz), and have Georgetown Kentucky coming up. They also play Wittenburg twice - the Witt JV - and the Ashland College "Club Team". They have no D3 team scheduled.
One must wonder if Lincoln could have pulled it back...just a tad
If this is the case, then this performance may end up with an asterisk!
Espn story http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=2683783
OSU-Marion only had 6 dressed players and has only had a program for 4 years. Moreover, the school's website does not even list the players heights or weight and 4 out of 10 players come from the same high school (I imagine that is the local high school). Lincoln's display today could be described as nothing better than classless and even that is a great deal kinder than what I am thinking. Lincoln's top player, Sami Wylie, played 24 minutes and managed to put up over 40 shots. Also according to Lincoln's coach it seems that despite a 100 point lead Lincoln maintained a full court press the entire game and a "Grinell Style" offense of shooting immediately rather than letting the shot clock wind down. Considering Lincoln's opponent and display any record deserves a great big asteriks. And Lincoln would deserve to go winless the rest of the year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2006, 10:29:51 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2006, 10:29:51 PM
DCHopeNut:
Do you really think Lincoln would go winless for the rest of the season? Granted the score was obsurb, but when you're an independeant and have difficulty games what are you suppose to do? Three years ago everyone wanted to schedule Lincoln for an easy win, and now the Lions have difficulty scheduling teams. Last year the Lions played on the road foe about 70% of their games.
Did you have the same opinion of Redlands when they had a huge score and margin of victory?
Do you really think Lincoln would go winless for the rest of the season? Granted the score was obsurb, but when you're an independeant and have difficulty games what are you suppose to do? Three years ago everyone wanted to schedule Lincoln for an easy win, and now the Lions have difficulty scheduling teams. Last year the Lions played on the road foe about 70% of their games.
Did you have the same opinion of Redlands when they had a huge score and margin of victory?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2006, 10:53:36 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2006, 10:53:36 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2006, 10:29:51 PM
DCHopeNut:
Do you really think Lincoln would go winless for the rest of the season? Granted the score was obsurb, but when you're an independeant and have difficulty games what are you suppose to do? Three years ago everyone wanted to schedule Lincoln for an easy win, and now the Lions have difficulty scheduling teams. Last year the Lions played on the road foe about 70% of their games.
Did you have the same opinion of Redlands when they had a huge score and margin of victory?
No, I doubt anyone thinks Lincoln will go winless, but after that classless performance, there are those who may hope so (see my post on top 25).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2006, 11:08:24 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2006, 11:08:24 PM
Ypsi:
Flog me too!......I don't condone what happened! If it'll make anyone happy (which I doubt), I apologize for the display of my alma mater aganist Ohio State-Marion. No one has commented about what Redlands did? Unfortunately, somone will come along and win by an even more ridiculous margin and it still won't make it right.
Flog me too!......I don't condone what happened! If it'll make anyone happy (which I doubt), I apologize for the display of my alma mater aganist Ohio State-Marion. No one has commented about what Redlands did? Unfortunately, somone will come along and win by an even more ridiculous margin and it still won't make it right.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2006, 11:40:37 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2006, 11:40:37 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 03, 2006, 11:08:24 PM
Ypsi:
Flog me too!......I don't condone what happened! If it'll make anyone happy (which I doubt), I apologize for the display of my alma mater aganist Ohio State-Marion. No one has commented about what Redlands did? Unfortunately, somone will come along and win by an even more ridiculous margin and it still won't make it right.
I have nothing against you personally (as I said on the top 25 board, I like your posts), but what is this you keep bringing up about Redlands? I'm guessing it must be something they did to Cal Tech, but they (Redlands) are a perpetually losing team (while you aspire to win it all), so what does that have to do with anything? Even if they won by an embarassing margin, obviously you won by much more. They're Redlands, you're supposed to be 'nation contender, Lincoln'.
Drop the Redlands and admit: Lincoln f***ed up! :(
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2006, 11:45:50 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 03, 2006, 11:45:50 PM
njlincolnlion,
Just saw your top 25 post. I don't think anyone holds a grudge against YOU, but your coach f***ed up big time.
We welcome YOU back anytime!
Just saw your top 25 post. I don't think anyone holds a grudge against YOU, but your coach f***ed up big time.
We welcome YOU back anytime!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 10:25:39 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 10:25:39 AM
Since the discussion is happening on three different boards, I'll post here too.
Lincoln has every right to score 200 points, so long as the bench is doing all the scoring. Those last five guys deserve a chance to play big minutes when the opposition is weak enough.
As far as I can tell, the other four starters were on the floor less than 15 minutes each. The biggest fault was putting Wylie in at the end of the game to run the score up. That's inexcusable.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 04, 2006, 10:30:47 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 04, 2006, 10:30:47 AM
Hoops Fan:
I couldn't agree with you more!
I couldn't agree with you more!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 01:17:01 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 01:17:01 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 04, 2006, 10:30:47 AM
Hoops Fan:
I couldn't agree with you more!
I might make you a little more angry. I just got another look at the full box score.
Questionable Moves:
Garrick Wooten, the starter who only played 6 minutes had only averaged 3 minutes a game so far this season and was obviously starting because the opponent was so poor.
Wylie and White normally start; they played 24 and 19 minutes respectively.
Ja'Juan Robinson and Dean Dwight both came off the bench playing 24 and 22 minutes respectively. Both of these guys typically start for Lincoln.
Of the seven players who played less than 10 minutes for Lincoln in this game, three played less than their season average to this point and the other five played within three minutes of their average.
Of the top six players in Lincoln's rotation (those averaging the most minutes to far this year), four of them played at or above their average minutes (including Wylie who is only averaging 24 minutes per game this season). The other two players (Robinson and Dwight) both played only four less minutes.
In their defense:
Vincent Carter-Bey rarely plays; he got to start and played 16 minutes.
The fifth starter was Thomas Lahart, who has been the 1st or 2nd guy off the bench all season. He played only 12 minutes.
As much as I will always maintain that the end of the bench can score as much as they want and play as hard as they want, Yuille's offenses in this game outweigh his graces. Those guys at the end of the bench should have gotten more than the 6 minutes their last five guys in minutes played averaged in this game.
While I think Ypsi is totally wrong, I don't think I can defend anything about this game anymore.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 01:48:14 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 01:48:14 PM
Hoops,
Your last sentence leaves me rather confused. You can no longer defend anything about this game anymore, yet "Ypsi is totally wrong"?!!
About what was I wrong? That 40 minutes of full court press against a team that dressed 6 players is just wrong? That getting a steal and making a 3 when there is NO defender between you and the basket (and up by 100+) is just wrong? That having your AA candidate make 36 of your last 56 points against a ridiculously overmatched opponent is just wrong?
Your last sentence leaves me rather confused. You can no longer defend anything about this game anymore, yet "Ypsi is totally wrong"?!!
About what was I wrong? That 40 minutes of full court press against a team that dressed 6 players is just wrong? That getting a steal and making a 3 when there is NO defender between you and the basket (and up by 100+) is just wrong? That having your AA candidate make 36 of your last 56 points against a ridiculously overmatched opponent is just wrong?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 02:17:59 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 02:17:59 PM
I don't know who's totally wrong, but I think diehardfan is totally right (see Daily Dose).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 04, 2006, 03:57:15 PM
Post by: NW Hope Fan on December 04, 2006, 03:57:15 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 02:17:59 PM
I don't know who's totally wrong, but I think diehardfan is totally right (see Daily Dose).
Yeah, except this is a basketball board, not a PETA, OXFAM, or Greenpeace board. April does point out some other misgivings of athletics in general that I'll agree with, but I think it is OK for basketball fans to get bent about basketball issues... No?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 04, 2006, 04:20:30 PM
Post by: sac on December 04, 2006, 04:20:30 PM
Without actually seeing this game its pretty difficult to say anything critical really...............but I wonder how difficult it would have been for Lincoln to maybe run a little time off the shot clock.
I saw a team do it beautifully last weekend up 20 at the half and they won by 20.
Just a thought, and I do believe this show very poor sportmanship.
I saw a team do it beautifully last weekend up 20 at the half and they won by 20.
Just a thought, and I do believe this show very poor sportmanship.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 04:55:06 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 04:55:06 PM
Quote from: Gooood Karma (AKA the poster formerly known as Bad Karma) on December 04, 2006, 03:57:15 PMQuote from: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 02:17:59 PM
I don't know who's totally wrong, but I think diehardfan is totally right (see Daily Dose).
Yeah, except this is a basketball board, not a PETA, OXFAM, or Greenpeace board. April does point out some other misgivings of athletics in general that I'll agree with, but I think it is OK for basketball fans to get bent about basketball issues... No?
I don't know what PETA, OXFAM, or Greenpeace have to do with this. You can feel any way you want about the results of the game, just as I can feel that some people are overreacting.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2006, 05:39:18 PM
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2006, 05:39:18 PM
Nicely said Oxybob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 05:40:06 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 04, 2006, 05:40:06 PM
Ypsi was wrong for saying they should have pulled off the press. If that's what they do, they shouldn't have to stop it. I just don't think that's fair to the guys at the end of the bench. I added more info on this on the daily dose.
However, after having examined the stats, I see that Lincoln didn't give their bench guys any more time than they had in any other game. If they had kept up the press with the last five guys on the bench, I doubt it would habe been anywhere near 200 points to begin with and an 80 point win with your bench guys in against an inferior team would be drawing far less attention.
I disagree with Ypsi's statement (thus the strong 'wrong' language, which was probably a bit inaproriate) although I recognize his foundation for believing it (no matter how vehemently I oppose it). In closing, I apologize for saying 'wrong' that was disrespectful of me.
However, after having examined the stats, I see that Lincoln didn't give their bench guys any more time than they had in any other game. If they had kept up the press with the last five guys on the bench, I doubt it would habe been anywhere near 200 points to begin with and an 80 point win with your bench guys in against an inferior team would be drawing far less attention.
I disagree with Ypsi's statement (thus the strong 'wrong' language, which was probably a bit inaproriate) although I recognize his foundation for believing it (no matter how vehemently I oppose it). In closing, I apologize for saying 'wrong' that was disrespectful of me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 05:59:19 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 05:59:19 PM
OxyBob, I believe your halftime instructions amount to telling the team that they will play the rest of the game in a manner that they don't practice and don't use in any other game. (I say "I believe" because I don't know enough about Lincoln to be sure.) That's fine. When I say there are no easy answers, I mean that I don't know where to draw that line, the line between a normal style of play and an altered one for the sake of "respect" or "sportsmanship." You seem certain where that line is, and I'm glad for you.
I also think it is an open question whether it is respectful or sportsmanlike to play with one hand tied behind your back. Again, I don't know where to draw that line.
I am not defending, and have not even addressed, the issue of who played in the second half.
I wasn't at the game, and I am reluctant to rush to judgment over something I don't have first-hand knowledge of. I'm also believe, rightly or wrongly, that the great majority of D3 coaches conduct themselves as sportsmen, and am willing to extend to them the benefit of the doubt. Because of that, I'm willing to consider alternative explanations other than the one that seems so obvious to so many.
I also think it is an open question whether it is respectful or sportsmanlike to play with one hand tied behind your back. Again, I don't know where to draw that line.
I am not defending, and have not even addressed, the issue of who played in the second half.
I wasn't at the game, and I am reluctant to rush to judgment over something I don't have first-hand knowledge of. I'm also believe, rightly or wrongly, that the great majority of D3 coaches conduct themselves as sportsmen, and am willing to extend to them the benefit of the doubt. Because of that, I'm willing to consider alternative explanations other than the one that seems so obvious to so many.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2006, 06:49:45 PM
Post by: John Gleich on December 04, 2006, 06:49:45 PM
And yet... in youth games, pressing isn't allowed. The thought behind this is that some players are just head over heals better than their opponents and would have an unfair advantage.
Similarly, I know of leagues for players a bit older (middle school age and a bit younger) where there is a cap for pressing... if you're up 20, you have to stop pressing. This is so that the other team isn't completely humiliated.
The point is that, the same way that a football team runs the ball to keep the clock moving and takes a knee during the end of a game on their opponent's 15 yardline instead of running up the score, a basketball team shouldn't be airing it out, with starters, and pressing for 40 full minutes when they're up more than 100 points!
And I fully understand the heart behind April's post, I really do. But I also feel that there are parallels between how you act and how you carry yourself in something like a basketball game and how you act and how you carry yourself in life. If someone would completely humiliate his fellow man on the basketball court, which, seemingly, has little to know real bearing on his existance, how will he treat his fellow man in life? Will he carry though life believing that, just because he can trample someone, he should?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not even going to begin to say that every participant should recieve the same sized trophy and everybody should get a ribon and a cookie just for participating, but, even in victory, if you carry yourself with humility and grace instead of pompus personal pride and arrogance, then it will affect those around you in a positive way, not a negative one, and it will carry over into life... it will breed leaders who don't think it's their God-given right to lord themselves over those who are below them, rather that they, as leaders, are there to serve, not to crack the slave-driver's whip.
Perhaps this is all a stretch, but then again, maybe it's not.
Similarly, I know of leagues for players a bit older (middle school age and a bit younger) where there is a cap for pressing... if you're up 20, you have to stop pressing. This is so that the other team isn't completely humiliated.
The point is that, the same way that a football team runs the ball to keep the clock moving and takes a knee during the end of a game on their opponent's 15 yardline instead of running up the score, a basketball team shouldn't be airing it out, with starters, and pressing for 40 full minutes when they're up more than 100 points!
And I fully understand the heart behind April's post, I really do. But I also feel that there are parallels between how you act and how you carry yourself in something like a basketball game and how you act and how you carry yourself in life. If someone would completely humiliate his fellow man on the basketball court, which, seemingly, has little to know real bearing on his existance, how will he treat his fellow man in life? Will he carry though life believing that, just because he can trample someone, he should?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not even going to begin to say that every participant should recieve the same sized trophy and everybody should get a ribon and a cookie just for participating, but, even in victory, if you carry yourself with humility and grace instead of pompus personal pride and arrogance, then it will affect those around you in a positive way, not a negative one, and it will carry over into life... it will breed leaders who don't think it's their God-given right to lord themselves over those who are below them, rather that they, as leaders, are there to serve, not to crack the slave-driver's whip.
Perhaps this is all a stretch, but then again, maybe it's not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 07:30:18 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 07:30:18 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 04, 2006, 06:47:51 PM
DC:
>>I wasn't at the game, and I am reluctant to rush to judgment over something I don't have first-hand knowledge of.<<
You have the box score, (http://www.lincoln.edu/athletics/mbasketball/osu-lin.htm) which has a running play-by-play. And, with all due respect, saying that you have no opinion because you weren't there to see it for yourself would pretty much eliminate you from opining about anything.
OxyBob
I didn't say I have no opinion, I said I won't rush to judgment. Not the same thing at all.
The other day, there was a game played between Denison and Wittenberg in which Denison shot under 39% from the field. And one of the most knowledgable posters in our room, who was in attendance, posted that Denison sank pretty much everything they put up, or words to that effect. It turns out that they were hitting the jumpers but missing the bunnies. It's hard to tell that from the box score. A few days before that, there was a game between Wooster and Georgetown that had a high number of turnovers and a fairly high shoting percentage, and one well-respected poster who was following the live stats concluded that the play was sloppy and lacking in defensive intensity. In fact, the opposite was true; the defensive intensity caused the turnovers and led to a disproportionate number of high-percentage shots. Those are just simple and recent cases where the box score and play by play account can give you one impression, while being at the game can give you a quite different one.
I agree with virtually everything PS says in his post above (I'm in favor of the ribbon-and-cookie idea, though. ;)) He makes this point:
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 04, 2006, 06:49:45 PMIf someone would completely humiliate his fellow man on the basketball court, [...] how will he treat his fellow man in life?I turn that on its head; I assume as a starting point that Lincoln's players and coaches treat their fellow man in life with respect and dignity. (Lincoln University does have that tradition.) If so, then there must be some other explanation for the game, other than they set out with deliberate and malicious intent to humiliate OSU-Marion. I assume, rightly or wrongly, that Lincoln had some degree of respect for their opponent, and took some steps to minimize the humiliation. It may be that they did something that is not evident from the box score. Even if that doesn't turn out to be the case, at least they'll be proven guilty and not just assumed to be guilty.
Believe me, I was as shocked and appalled as anyone else when I heard of this score (although I candidly admit that some part of me likes to see the words "Ohio State" on the wrong end of a blowout :)). I doubt that Lincoln is blameless, and if I looked into it any deeper I think it's possible that I'd become angry about it, as some of you already are. But I have no desire to become angry about how a basketball game was played, especially when my anger will change nothing. At the risk of ridicule, I'll say that I try to save my stronger emotions for things like poverty and oppression. Maybe I can't do anything about them, either, but I can't go through my life being angry about everything. I have to pick and choose, as do we all.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 08:35:55 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 08:35:55 PM
David,
Good post (as always!), but you ignore two things in the box score that cannot possibly be explained away. The five players with the fewest minutes going in to the game averaged less than SIX minutes - it was NOT their scrubs who put up 201 points! Their AA candidate Sami Wylie had 36 of the LAST 56 points scored.
It didn't occur to me until today, but the ONE person who has the MOST reason to be p***ed is last year's national POY, Kyle Myrick. His name is erased from (one part of) the Lincoln record book because (while, if I remember correctly, every one of his 62 points was NEEDED by Lincoln) his former coach and former teammate conspired to break his single-game record against a team that sounds like Ypsi High would probably beat them (this is NOT an example of my frequent hyperbole - YHS IS very good, OSU-M is clearly very bad) - what a slap in the face to Lincoln's best-ever player! What does Coach Yuille have planned for the future - schedule a Brownie troop so next year's star can go for 64?! ;)
Sometimes the evidence is SO clear that eyewitness testimony is unnecessary! I am NOT condemning LU in general as an institution; I AM saying they made a horrible misjudgement and owe an institutional apology to OSU-M.
[It goes without saying that I share your distaste in EVER being nice to a school with OSU in the name ( ;D), but, while it obviously has not even the remotest parallel to Bush's actions in Iraq or inactions in Darfur, what Lincoln's coach did is still disgusting. I can be angry at MANY different levels, without getting mixed up between lack of sportsmanship at a bball game and children dying of easily preventable (or curable) diseases in Africa.]
Good post (as always!), but you ignore two things in the box score that cannot possibly be explained away. The five players with the fewest minutes going in to the game averaged less than SIX minutes - it was NOT their scrubs who put up 201 points! Their AA candidate Sami Wylie had 36 of the LAST 56 points scored.
It didn't occur to me until today, but the ONE person who has the MOST reason to be p***ed is last year's national POY, Kyle Myrick. His name is erased from (one part of) the Lincoln record book because (while, if I remember correctly, every one of his 62 points was NEEDED by Lincoln) his former coach and former teammate conspired to break his single-game record against a team that sounds like Ypsi High would probably beat them (this is NOT an example of my frequent hyperbole - YHS IS very good, OSU-M is clearly very bad) - what a slap in the face to Lincoln's best-ever player! What does Coach Yuille have planned for the future - schedule a Brownie troop so next year's star can go for 64?! ;)
Sometimes the evidence is SO clear that eyewitness testimony is unnecessary! I am NOT condemning LU in general as an institution; I AM saying they made a horrible misjudgement and owe an institutional apology to OSU-M.
[It goes without saying that I share your distaste in EVER being nice to a school with OSU in the name ( ;D), but, while it obviously has not even the remotest parallel to Bush's actions in Iraq or inactions in Darfur, what Lincoln's coach did is still disgusting. I can be angry at MANY different levels, without getting mixed up between lack of sportsmanship at a bball game and children dying of easily preventable (or curable) diseases in Africa.]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 09:42:26 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 09:42:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 08:35:55 PM
David,
Good post (as always!), but you ignore two things in the box score that cannot possibly be explained away. The five players with the fewest minutes going in to the game averaged less than SIX minutes - it was NOT their scrubs who put up 201 points! Their AA candidate Sami Wylie had 36 of the LAST 56 points scored.
Yes, I have ignored this, as I mentioned earlier. I have not considered the use of players, and I don't intend to consider it. I just don't care enough. I only got into this discussion in the first place because I was interesed in the academic question of whether you should change your basic style of play (e.g. press or no press) in a situation like this, and got dragged further into it by agreeing with diehardfan's reminder that there's unsportsmanlike conduct all around us and her plea for a little calm perspective. I'm not knowledgeable of Lincoln's player rotation, and thus I do not defend (or condemn) it. Like Jim Tressel, I abstain.
But...
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 08:35:55 PM
Sometimes the evidence is SO clear that eyewitness testimony is unnecessary!
The lawyer in me screams his disagreement with this. Circumstantial evidence is never clear enough to render eyewitness testimony unnecessary, when that testimony is available. Maybe some of those scrubs were injured, or ill, or out of shape, or in the doghouse. Maybe the coach thought he was showing respect for his opponent by using his normal rotation. Maybe he thought that the scrubs were playing too hard, and the starters were more likely to ease up since they had no need to impress him. Maybe he decided that everyone on his bench was far superior to every Scarlet Wave player, and that it didn't matter who played. There's a myriad of possibilities, some more likely than others, but all plausible. I don't know what anyone was thinking, and I'm unwilling to decide based solely on what the box score says. I'm not stupid; I know what it looks like, and maybe that's what really happened, but I'm not ready to pick up my torch and tarbucket based on that evidence alone. That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on December 04, 2006, 10:04:57 PM
Post by: Titan Q on December 04, 2006, 10:04:57 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 02:17:59 PM
I don't know who's totally wrong, but I think diehardfan is totally right (see Daily Dose).
Here are my concerns with April's Daily Dose post:
#1
I do not think having an opinion regarding the Lincoln situation and being "upset about the tens of thousands of people in this nation of prosperity who lack access to safe drinking water, or for the one child that dies every five seconds from hunger around the world, or the billion people living below the poverty line around the world" are mutually exclusive. I read that as April suggesting that they are. I'd like to believe that I can hold the opinion that what Lincoln did - having their All-American throwing up 3's in a game they were up 120 - was unsportsmanlike, and also be concerned about the social issues she references.
#2
This isn't a forum where we discuss "the tens of thousands of people in this nation of prosperity who lack access to safe drinking water, or for the one child that dies every five seconds from hunger around the world, or the billion people living below the poverty line around the world." It is a Division III basketball website. I am quite sure that many of us donate countless hours volunteering for the United Way, Easter Seals, the Boys and Girls Club, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, going on mission trips, and all kinds of other things to make a difference in small way. But this isn't really the place we talk about that, is it? This is the place we talk about basketball issues, and everyone posting thoughts on the Lincoln situation is doing exactly that.
#3
April's post is so random that it could apply anything written here on D3hoops.com. For example, couldn't we say the same thing after a post discussing a Wooster/Georgetown (KY) game? David Collinge gets done posting the X's and O's of the big game and is met with: "...let's use our gigantic DIII brains to get upset about the tens of thousands of people in this nation of prosperity who lack access to safe drinking water, or for the one child that dies every five seconds from hunger around the world, or the billion people living below the poverty line around the world." OK, let's do that (somewhere else), but can we also talk about the D3 basketball issue too?
#4
The old "two wrongs don't make a right" philosophy, delivered straight from mom and dad. I read April's message as suggesting that since "All of our teams have done something that has been in bad taste in the past" that Lincoln U's behavior is somehow less unacceptable, or that we should be more willing to brush it aside. I disagree. I'll support, and participate in, a separate forum discussing out-of-control student sections or unsportsmanlike behavior by student-athletes, etc, but also respect everyone that has chosen to comment on this topic.
I say this as someone who is a big April fan and someone who hopes she rejoins us here on Posting Up...I just don't understand, or agree with, her Daily Dose post.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 04, 2006, 10:43:26 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 04, 2006, 10:43:26 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 04, 2006, 05:15:54 PM
>>About what was I wrong?<<
Nothing. Unless you're playing a team which has Osama bin Laden starting at center, there's no circumstance whatsoever where scoring 201 points and embarrassing and humiliating an opponent is OK.
HAHAHA, that is hilarious. However, Osama is 6'4" and putting up 201 on him may actually prove quite difficult.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 10:46:23 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 10:46:23 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 09:42:26 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 04, 2006, 08:35:55 PM
Sometimes the evidence is SO clear that eyewitness testimony is unnecessary!
The lawyer in me screams his disagreement with this. Circumstantial evidence is never clear enough to render eyewitness testimony unnecessary, when that testimony is available.
I certainly hope that the lawyer in you was trained that a plethora of studies shows that eyewitness testimony is consistently the LEAST reliable of forms of evidence! Given that Lincoln's players with the LEAST game time coming in, had the LEAST game time against OSU-M, and given that Sami Wylie dissed Kyle Myrick by scoring 36 of the LAST 56 points against a hopelessly outmanned team (to pass him in the record book), can you understand why I say that the verdict is quite clear! (You came up with things that are not flat-out impossible, but none are plausible to explain the result. The verdict may not be 'beyond a shadow of a doubt', but it is certain 'beyond a reasonable doubt' - since I didn't ask for the death penalty, that is sufficient! :D)
Yuille f***ed up and Lincoln owes OSU-M a public apology.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 10:48:43 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 04, 2006, 10:48:43 PM
April's unlikely to reappear to defend herself, but you and I read her post quite differently.
I think the primary point of her comments was that people were overreacting to the game, and that everyone should calm down and regain our perspective. Whatever unsportsmanlike behavior there was on Lincoln's part was similar to (even in some cases less than) unsportsmanlike conduct we all have seen and not objected to (or at least didn't blow up into a firestorm like this one has.) That doesn't mean we should "be willing to brush it aside," but rather that we should realize that there's some pot-kettle in all of these comments. Once that perspective has been regained, we can rationally discuss it, not forgetting how relatively trivial the whole issue is in the grand scheme of things. I agree with this interpretation of her comments entirely; others may not.
Nowhere does she say that you can't be concerned about both world hunger and D3 hoops (#1). Nowhere does she say that we should discuss safe drinking water to the exclusion of d3 basketball, or in fact discuss them at all in this forum (#2, #3). In fact, I think her comments about "poverty, genocide, famine, epidemics" as compared to the current storm were intended as a purposeful exaggeration; this is further suggested by the smiley and winky faces and the phrase "seriously, though" immediately after their introduction. Unfortunately, however, they have obscured what I think is the main point, in the paragraph between the mentions of world problems.
I think the primary point of her comments was that people were overreacting to the game, and that everyone should calm down and regain our perspective. Whatever unsportsmanlike behavior there was on Lincoln's part was similar to (even in some cases less than) unsportsmanlike conduct we all have seen and not objected to (or at least didn't blow up into a firestorm like this one has.) That doesn't mean we should "be willing to brush it aside," but rather that we should realize that there's some pot-kettle in all of these comments. Once that perspective has been regained, we can rationally discuss it, not forgetting how relatively trivial the whole issue is in the grand scheme of things. I agree with this interpretation of her comments entirely; others may not.
Nowhere does she say that you can't be concerned about both world hunger and D3 hoops (#1). Nowhere does she say that we should discuss safe drinking water to the exclusion of d3 basketball, or in fact discuss them at all in this forum (#2, #3). In fact, I think her comments about "poverty, genocide, famine, epidemics" as compared to the current storm were intended as a purposeful exaggeration; this is further suggested by the smiley and winky faces and the phrase "seriously, though" immediately after their introduction. Unfortunately, however, they have obscured what I think is the main point, in the paragraph between the mentions of world problems.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2006, 03:40:24 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 05, 2006, 03:40:24 AM
I'm just going to step in and say that I've really enjoyed this discussion. Lots of thoughtful responses, both in a larger philosophical sense and in a narrower, basketball-analysis sense. I especially applaud PS's post (the one about ribbons and cookies). The interesting thing, too, is that I find myself agreeing with well-articulated statements being made by both sides of arguments that have completely differing perspectives (Chuck & OxyBob vs. DC, Titan Q vs. April).
I do think that Chuck's injection of political partisanship detracted from the discussion, however. Why rile up people on the other side of the political fence from you and in so doing risk alienating people who may otherwise be nodding their heads at some of the good points you've made about the way Coach Yuille handled Saturday's game?
I got pretty annoyed by the news of Lincoln's gut-stomp of OSUM, and the excellent detective work done by HF regarding the box score has only deepened my annoyance. At the same time, I was on the other side of this argument this fall in Post Patterns, when some of the North Central guys started harping on North Park's 104-32 football win over NCC back in 1968. My point then was, "This game probably took place long before any of you Cardinals fans were born. Aside from Dennis Prikkel, how many people who use this website were even there that day to speak about this game from an eyewitness perspective? A box score doesn't tell you all the facts." So I'm a little more inclined to take DC's advice and err on the side of caution, because not everything in sports can be condensed into a box score. Still, the box score evidence is pretty damning against Lincoln.
How's that for an equivocating statement? :D
I do think that Chuck's injection of political partisanship detracted from the discussion, however. Why rile up people on the other side of the political fence from you and in so doing risk alienating people who may otherwise be nodding their heads at some of the good points you've made about the way Coach Yuille handled Saturday's game?
I got pretty annoyed by the news of Lincoln's gut-stomp of OSUM, and the excellent detective work done by HF regarding the box score has only deepened my annoyance. At the same time, I was on the other side of this argument this fall in Post Patterns, when some of the North Central guys started harping on North Park's 104-32 football win over NCC back in 1968. My point then was, "This game probably took place long before any of you Cardinals fans were born. Aside from Dennis Prikkel, how many people who use this website were even there that day to speak about this game from an eyewitness perspective? A box score doesn't tell you all the facts." So I'm a little more inclined to take DC's advice and err on the side of caution, because not everything in sports can be condensed into a box score. Still, the box score evidence is pretty damning against Lincoln.
How's that for an equivocating statement? :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 05:31:14 AM
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 05:31:14 AM
* There can be NO justification whatsoever for the total lack of class shown by Lincoln University! Sad
* Did anyone mention that the other team dressed only 6 players?
* The 5 Lincoln players who had played the fewest minutes so far this year (theoretically the 5 worst players) should have played the ENTIRE 2nd half. But no, that wasn't possible because Lincoln (Stinkin') U was ONLY up by 53 at the half! They had to outscore the other team by 70 in the 2nd half to really show whos boss.
* You tell your players to play hard, BUT-----
---Not to shoot ANY 3s
---Run the shot clock down to 10 before beginning to run a play
* The Lincoln head coach was nothing less than a COMPLETE ASS----! He should be
suspended by the University for AT LEAST one game for poor sportsmanship & lack of control over the basketball program.
The purpose of having one of the starters play the last 9 1/2 minutes was?
* As far as the guy who took 41 3s-------> I hope his frickin' arm falls off!
* The Lincoln basketball web site indicates "Discipline, Desire, Dedication."
More like LACK of discipline, Desire to KICK your opponent, Decication to LACK OF CLASS.
* Did anyone mention that the other team dressed only 6 players?
* The 5 Lincoln players who had played the fewest minutes so far this year (theoretically the 5 worst players) should have played the ENTIRE 2nd half. But no, that wasn't possible because Lincoln (Stinkin') U was ONLY up by 53 at the half! They had to outscore the other team by 70 in the 2nd half to really show whos boss.
* You tell your players to play hard, BUT-----
---Not to shoot ANY 3s
---Run the shot clock down to 10 before beginning to run a play
* The Lincoln head coach was nothing less than a COMPLETE ASS----! He should be
suspended by the University for AT LEAST one game for poor sportsmanship & lack of control over the basketball program.
The purpose of having one of the starters play the last 9 1/2 minutes was?
* As far as the guy who took 41 3s-------> I hope his frickin' arm falls off!
* The Lincoln basketball web site indicates "Discipline, Desire, Dedication."
More like LACK of discipline, Desire to KICK your opponent, Decication to LACK OF CLASS.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 07:44:41 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 07:44:41 AM
Good Job Lincoln University. Forget "AndOne" and his stupid @$$ comments. If Grinnell had done the same thing they would be singing their praises!
Go Lincoln... And check out this article!
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02355.shtml
Go Lincoln... And check out this article!
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02355.shtml
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 11:04:00 AM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 11:04:00 AM
Wilburt, You have no idea what you are talking about because Grinnell has never gone out and won by 123. I am sure they would receive the same criticism if they did. I would be happy to start the criticism myself. To suggest this is a race related cricicism of Lincoln's display is disgusting.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 11:10:06 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 11:10:06 AM
Thank you DCHopeNUT for your well informed and insightful opinion! Check out the article!
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/16164814.htm
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/16164814.htm
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 11:21:22 AM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 11:21:22 AM
Wilburt, How does that article change a thing? Lincoln's coach feels bad because the school is getting negative publicity? He still never called off the press! He could have taken minimal steps and still won by 80. You're first article and the comment about Grinnell is what i was referring to. The second article changes nothing.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 11:26:28 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 11:26:28 AM
Thanks again DCHopeNUT for another well informed and insightful opinion!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 11:35:53 AM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 11:35:53 AM
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: joehakes on December 05, 2006, 12:59:11 PM
Post by: joehakes on December 05, 2006, 12:59:11 PM
Before this fades off into silly banter like the last few posts (sorry!) it should be noted that the discussion here is very valuable. The various perspectives that are expressed here show the huge differences in how we all take in the world around us. Thanks again to d3hoops.com for allowing a national forum on the issues of sportsmanship and class.
I don't want to take sides in this, although if I did, I would have a pretty strong opinion. At the end of the day, there is a reason why we spend all this time on this board and watch TV sports and encourage our kids to play, etc. The reason is that we think that it is important. Examining what is important to us is necessary in how we look at our culture and society compared to others around the world. While I won't make too strong a connection between this particular game and world events, we all need to periodically take stock of who we are and what we think.
Keep thinking about what these games (and this one in particular) mean. As Dan Quayle said, "It's a terrible thing to waste one's mind."
I don't want to take sides in this, although if I did, I would have a pretty strong opinion. At the end of the day, there is a reason why we spend all this time on this board and watch TV sports and encourage our kids to play, etc. The reason is that we think that it is important. Examining what is important to us is necessary in how we look at our culture and society compared to others around the world. While I won't make too strong a connection between this particular game and world events, we all need to periodically take stock of who we are and what we think.
Keep thinking about what these games (and this one in particular) mean. As Dan Quayle said, "It's a terrible thing to waste one's mind."
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 01:45:24 PM
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 01:45:24 PM
Quote from: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 05:31:14 AM
* There can be NO justification whatsoever for the total lack of class shown by Lincoln University! Sad
* Did anyone mention that the other team dressed only 6 players?
* The 5 Lincoln players who had played the fewest minutes so far this year (theoretically the 5 worst players) should have played the ENTIRE 2nd half. But no, that wasn't possible because Lincoln (Stinkin') U was ONLY up by 53 at the half! They had to outscore the other team by 70 in the 2nd half to really show whos boss.
* You tell your players to play hard, BUT-----
---Not to shoot ANY 3s
---Run the shot clock down to 10 before beginning to run a play
* The Lincoln head coach was nothing less than a COMPLETE ASS----! He should be
suspended by the University for AT LEAST one game for poor sportsmanship & lack of control over the basketball program.
The purpose of having one of the starters play the last 9 1/2 minutes was?
* As far as the guy who took 41 3s-------> I hope his frickin' arm falls off!
* The Lincoln basketball web site indicates "Discipline, Desire, Dedication."
More like LACK of discipline, Desire to KICK your opponent, Decication to LACK OF CLASS.
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 07:44:41 AM
Good Job Lincoln University. Forget "AndOne" and his stupid @$$ comments. If Grinnell had done the same thing they would be singing their praises!
Go Lincoln... And check out this article!
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02355.shtml
Wilburt---
Your failure to understand the concept of what I posted about and to dismiss my comments as "stupid" only shows you have absolutely NO understanding of the real meaning of both sportsmanship and class. Going one step further, I doubt you can even grasp the concept that collegiate sports are meant to enhance the academic experience by teaching values such as fair play, working together/teamwork, victory with class, and most of all, respect for your opponnent and his views/feelings.
Sure the Lincoln coach can "apologize" as an afterthought and in the face of a ton of well deserved criticism. But his saying things like "I am not happy with the 201 points," and "they came 5 hours to play basketball" only serve notice that he is saying the right thing out of one side of his mouth while lying out of the other side.
If he wasn't happy with the 201 points, he could have done some of the things suggested in my above post to hold down the score. Also, he is only contradicting himself by saying "they came 5 hours to play basketball" as if thats justification for the 201 points! What a complete ass to attempt to justify the brand of gangster ball he allowed his team to display.
Lastly, the most despicable act of all may have been your inclusion of the article about the black athlete. Was that done to support your contention we shouldn't crucify Lincoln because they're black?
By including that article you only serve to add evidence to the fact that you are both the most clueless and classless Neanderthal I have ever seen post here!
Go ahead and give me another negative Karma point like you did in the Mid-Atlantic
Region after you read my above/initial post there. It will only further prove your lack of class.
:-*
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 02:04:02 PM
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 02:04:02 PM
Quote from: joehakes on December 05, 2006, 12:59:11 PM
Before this fades off into silly banter like the last few posts (sorry!) it should be noted that the discussion here is very valuable. The various perspectives that are expressed here show the huge differences in how we all take in the world around us. Thanks again to d3hoops.com for allowing a national forum on the issues of sportsmanship and class.
I don't want to take sides in this, although if I did, I would have a pretty strong opinion. At the end of the day, there is a reason why we spend all this time on this board and watch TV sports and encourage our kids to play, etc. The reason is that we think that it is important. Examining what is important to us is necessary in how we look at our culture and society compared to others around the world. While I won't make too strong a connection between this particular game and world events, we all need to periodically take stock of who we are and what we think.
Keep thinking about what these games (and this one in particular) mean. As Dan Quayle said, "It's a terrible thing to waste one's mind."
Joe---
EXTREMELY well said!
You did it like I should have after I took a step back and exhaled rather than posting while my blood was still boiling.
I still think I'm right in what I said if not in how I expressed it. If nothing else I hope my above post at least shows I care about D3 Hoops and value the fact that all sports (should) only enhance the overall higher educational experience.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 02:35:17 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 02:35:17 PM
AndOne:
Contrary to your emotional rants, I totally understand your comments and the concept of sportsmanship.
I do not like your attitude nor how you express your opinions. That is what I have a problem with. Calling the Coach an ass and other disparaging terms, referring to the game played as like gangsta ball, and calling me a neanderthal is not very tame as opposed to calling an ignorant person like you "stupid"!
It's fine to have opinions and strong ones at that, but the constant name calling and allowing me to goat you into further name calling clearly reflects YOUR lack of class (by having to revert to name calling) because I'm sure your parents taught you better!
Contrary to your emotional rants, I totally understand your comments and the concept of sportsmanship.
I do not like your attitude nor how you express your opinions. That is what I have a problem with. Calling the Coach an ass and other disparaging terms, referring to the game played as like gangsta ball, and calling me a neanderthal is not very tame as opposed to calling an ignorant person like you "stupid"!
It's fine to have opinions and strong ones at that, but the constant name calling and allowing me to goat you into further name calling clearly reflects YOUR lack of class (by having to revert to name calling) because I'm sure your parents taught you better!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: diehardfan on December 05, 2006, 02:49:17 PM
Post by: diehardfan on December 05, 2006, 02:49:17 PM
First of all, I want to say that I think that PETA and Greenpeace are crazy psychotic organizations full of hypocrites who value life less than the people they hate so much. :D With that out of the way…
Secondly, I know that there are probably two people who are going to read this. But hey, if I make it really boring, maybe it will scare off the stalkers. LOL! The main points are highlighted. If you don’t understand, please email me rather that insulting/speculating my supposed opinion... I really had good reasons for stopping posting. Frustrating me into posting is a creative technique, but it's not going to work in the long run. :P
That’s some good stuff right there. Your wife is a good influence on you. Hehe... ;)
In the context of sports I get pretty darn upset about people with bad sportsmanship... because I do think it translates into how they behave toward their fellow man later in life. Note how my original message on the daily dose started with that preface. I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to contextualize my remarks. My point had several parts, that were obviously not clearly delineated. My points were only these, and not any of the other things that people have speculated (though I do admit that David has a relatively remarkably good ability to figure out my hasty jumble of words!)
1) I acknowledged the strong real life effects that coaches have on their player’s character. As a former athlete I have experienced first hand the effects of good and bad coaches on my actions and thinking. I’ve had coaches that made me feel worthless and inadequate, and others that inspired me to try harder. My father is a Tae Kwon Do Grandmaster, and my family has owned a Tae Kwon Do School for longer than I’ve been alive. For years I have seen first hand the affect that he has had on incredibly troubled “at risk” children, by instilling discipline, perseverance, confidence, self control, respect for authority, etc. I’ve seen kids who are failing out of school, and who turn around under his teaching. Does school directly relate to the martial arts? Well, no, not exactly, but twenty years later we have students coming back and attributing their successful careers and family life to my father and the lessons he taught them as a child. Obviously lessons learned in sports translate into the rest of life. This is why I love Point Special’s post so much. I personally thought that this should be obvious to people, and that’s why I didn’t spend a lot of time on it… it was just a preface to the rest of my statements.
2) If we use the really strong adjectives to describe something like our frustration with basketball, it will diminish our ability to adequately describe real evil. Yes, the character we exhibit when faced with relatively small things shapes how we will respond to the bigger things when we encounter them. But words are powerful. If the Lincoln thing is an abomination... then what are poverty and oppression? What words are left? As a little background on this, I did a weird experiment on myself in high school, where I stopped watching movies rated over PG for a year. What I found was that when I watched the news, I cried at the tragedies it showed… they became more real to me. There's no way to describe it... it's just how it is. Desensitizing is real. I think that by not being careful about the words we choose and way that we think about things, it will make very important lines, like the difference between what was genuinely bad sportsmanship on the part of Lincoln and poverty a little more blurry than they should be.
3)I am NOT in any way trivializing this issue. Sportsmanship is very important, and as I stated in #1 I have experience the reality of that first hand. I do get genuinely upset when players are cocky, or the crowd is crass, or the coach is offensive… that's why I bothered to list all those thing reflect bad sportsmanship... they matter to me. I am sure that much more than 100 of my 4000+ posts on this board specifically mention my issues with the sportsmanship of Wheaton and other programs I’ve seen over the years. I have very high standards on this issue, and I think it’s important in this context.
4) Although this isn’t in my initial post, I want to make it clear that I definitely think that there is a place for being fans of a sport. I love Wheaton sports. We all need time to distress and have fun. My reading of this site is one of the many ways that I do that. You guys don’t need to know all my hobbies, but I have a lot of them, and only very few of them have anything to do with saving humanity. :D
5) At the same time, my post was also a playful little jab at all the people who spend sooooo much time arguing about basketball which is relatively trivial, when there are bigger issues at stake. With 4000+ posts and 25hours logged on this site, and you know, the whole insane fact that I am creating a Wheaton basketball fansite… that obviously was intended to be a big huge jab at myself! :-[ :D :-X It’s important to take anything that happens and compare it to the big picture. It keeps the emotions a little more moderated, and the insults towards others a little more tempered.
6) Also in there was a call for a humility. The action of the Lincoln team did represents bad sportsmanship, sure. My gut reaction was similar to many of you… But there are issues in our own programs as well, issues that should both give us humility and treat this mistake with the kindness we could like our programs to receive when we mess up. The student fans acting crass and drunk and swearing in front of kids bothers me a lot. There are very few schools that I’ve been too that I’d feel comfortable taking my kids to when I grow up (and obviously, I’m gonna want to brainwash them into being Wheaton fans so this is important!!! :D) The problems in our own programs are also the ones that we are more likely to be able to make an effective difference in. A wise teacher once said that it was better to remove the plank in our own eye than the speck in our neighbors. Even if we only have a speck and our neighbor has a plank, won’t removing the speck in our eyes first help us see better to help remove their plank? This obviously doesn’t mean that we aren’t supposed to be doing anything about sportsmanship… it just means that we should discuss the issue of sportsmanship with the same humility that we expect out of any player, coach or program we want to exhibit good sportsmanship.
And well, I really don’t have time to type any more, so hopefully that makes things clear enough that people aren’t annoyed any more. :P :)
Secondly, I know that there are probably two people who are going to read this. But hey, if I make it really boring, maybe it will scare off the stalkers. LOL! The main points are highlighted. If you don’t understand, please email me rather that insulting/speculating my supposed opinion... I really had good reasons for stopping posting. Frustrating me into posting is a creative technique, but it's not going to work in the long run. :P
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 04, 2006, 06:49:45 PM
But I also feel that there are parallels between how you act and how you carry yourself in something like a basketball game and how you act and how you carry yourself in life. If someone would completely humiliate his fellow man on the basketball court, which, seemingly, has little to know real bearing on his existance, how will he treat his fellow man in life? Will he carry though life believing that, just because he can trample someone, he should?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not even going to begin to say that every participant should recieve the same sized trophy and everybody should get a ribon and a cookie just for participating, but, even in victory, if you carry yourself with humility and grace instead of pompus personal pride and arrogance, then it will affect those around you in a positive way, not a negative one, and it will carry over into life... it will breed leaders who don't think it's their God-given right to lord themselves over those who are below them, rather that they, as leaders, are there to serve, not to crack the slave-driver's whip.
Perhaps this is all a stretch, but then again, maybe it's not.
That’s some good stuff right there. Your wife is a good influence on you. Hehe... ;)
In the context of sports I get pretty darn upset about people with bad sportsmanship... because I do think it translates into how they behave toward their fellow man later in life. Note how my original message on the daily dose started with that preface. I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to contextualize my remarks. My point had several parts, that were obviously not clearly delineated. My points were only these, and not any of the other things that people have speculated (though I do admit that David has a relatively remarkably good ability to figure out my hasty jumble of words!)
1) I acknowledged the strong real life effects that coaches have on their player’s character. As a former athlete I have experienced first hand the effects of good and bad coaches on my actions and thinking. I’ve had coaches that made me feel worthless and inadequate, and others that inspired me to try harder. My father is a Tae Kwon Do Grandmaster, and my family has owned a Tae Kwon Do School for longer than I’ve been alive. For years I have seen first hand the affect that he has had on incredibly troubled “at risk” children, by instilling discipline, perseverance, confidence, self control, respect for authority, etc. I’ve seen kids who are failing out of school, and who turn around under his teaching. Does school directly relate to the martial arts? Well, no, not exactly, but twenty years later we have students coming back and attributing their successful careers and family life to my father and the lessons he taught them as a child. Obviously lessons learned in sports translate into the rest of life. This is why I love Point Special’s post so much. I personally thought that this should be obvious to people, and that’s why I didn’t spend a lot of time on it… it was just a preface to the rest of my statements.
2) If we use the really strong adjectives to describe something like our frustration with basketball, it will diminish our ability to adequately describe real evil. Yes, the character we exhibit when faced with relatively small things shapes how we will respond to the bigger things when we encounter them. But words are powerful. If the Lincoln thing is an abomination... then what are poverty and oppression? What words are left? As a little background on this, I did a weird experiment on myself in high school, where I stopped watching movies rated over PG for a year. What I found was that when I watched the news, I cried at the tragedies it showed… they became more real to me. There's no way to describe it... it's just how it is. Desensitizing is real. I think that by not being careful about the words we choose and way that we think about things, it will make very important lines, like the difference between what was genuinely bad sportsmanship on the part of Lincoln and poverty a little more blurry than they should be.
3)I am NOT in any way trivializing this issue. Sportsmanship is very important, and as I stated in #1 I have experience the reality of that first hand. I do get genuinely upset when players are cocky, or the crowd is crass, or the coach is offensive… that's why I bothered to list all those thing reflect bad sportsmanship... they matter to me. I am sure that much more than 100 of my 4000+ posts on this board specifically mention my issues with the sportsmanship of Wheaton and other programs I’ve seen over the years. I have very high standards on this issue, and I think it’s important in this context.
4) Although this isn’t in my initial post, I want to make it clear that I definitely think that there is a place for being fans of a sport. I love Wheaton sports. We all need time to distress and have fun. My reading of this site is one of the many ways that I do that. You guys don’t need to know all my hobbies, but I have a lot of them, and only very few of them have anything to do with saving humanity. :D
5) At the same time, my post was also a playful little jab at all the people who spend sooooo much time arguing about basketball which is relatively trivial, when there are bigger issues at stake. With 4000+ posts and 25hours logged on this site, and you know, the whole insane fact that I am creating a Wheaton basketball fansite… that obviously was intended to be a big huge jab at myself! :-[ :D :-X It’s important to take anything that happens and compare it to the big picture. It keeps the emotions a little more moderated, and the insults towards others a little more tempered.
6) Also in there was a call for a humility. The action of the Lincoln team did represents bad sportsmanship, sure. My gut reaction was similar to many of you… But there are issues in our own programs as well, issues that should both give us humility and treat this mistake with the kindness we could like our programs to receive when we mess up. The student fans acting crass and drunk and swearing in front of kids bothers me a lot. There are very few schools that I’ve been too that I’d feel comfortable taking my kids to when I grow up (and obviously, I’m gonna want to brainwash them into being Wheaton fans so this is important!!! :D) The problems in our own programs are also the ones that we are more likely to be able to make an effective difference in. A wise teacher once said that it was better to remove the plank in our own eye than the speck in our neighbors. Even if we only have a speck and our neighbor has a plank, won’t removing the speck in our eyes first help us see better to help remove their plank? This obviously doesn’t mean that we aren’t supposed to be doing anything about sportsmanship… it just means that we should discuss the issue of sportsmanship with the same humility that we expect out of any player, coach or program we want to exhibit good sportsmanship.
And well, I really don’t have time to type any more, so hopefully that makes things clear enough that people aren’t annoyed any more. :P :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 03:06:43 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 03:06:43 PM
Diehardfan you have given me something to definitely think about, contrary to your colleagues AndOne and DCHopeNUT! They just want to rant, rave and try to poke fun and belittle people.
Thanks again and if I am one of the two people then so be it!
Well stated sir.
Thanks again and if I am one of the two people then so be it!
Well stated sir.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:15:50 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:15:50 PM
Wilburt, How did I rant or rave in response to your comments. Or your links to someone else's comments actually. I disagree with the way Lincoln played but I can find value in the reasoned arguments as to why a coach would not coach his team to play a different style even in a game where they had an insurmountable lead. However, I took offense to your suggestion that Lincoln is being criticized because of the race of its coach and players. Comments like that are insulting to everyone on this board.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:19:27 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:19:27 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 03:06:43 PM
Diehardfan you have given me something to definitely think about, contrary to your colleagues AndOne and DCHopeNUT! They just want to rant, rave and try to poke fun and belittle people.
Thanks again and if I am one of the two people then so be it!
Well stated sir.
If anyone is belittling anyone, it is you belittling me. It is you who have changed the capitalization of my name to suggest I am a "NUT" rather than DCHopeNut. Or it could be the demeaning manner in which you labeled my "insightful comments."
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 03:20:37 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 03:20:37 PM
So I guess we are even now (DCHOPENUT) - in that we have taken offense to what the other has said. As for anything I've said or quoted being offensive to everyone on this board I would say this: Just speak for yourself and not presumably for everyone else. When you assume you know what happens?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:32:35 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:32:35 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 07:44:41 AM
Good Job Lincoln University. Forget "AndOne" and his stupid @$$ comments. If Grinnell had done the same thing they would be singing their praises!
Go Lincoln... And check out this article!
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02355.shtml
Wilburt, I am not entirely sure what I did that so belittled you. Except to take offense to the above post that most logically can only be interpretted as suggesting that the main reason the posters on this board were criticizing Lincoln was because most of their players (or all, I am not sure) are African-American. The combination of the article you link to and the comment about Grinnell leads to this conclusion. I am also not the only one to interpret this post this way.
If that was not your meaning I'd like to publicly apologize for reading it wrong and upsetting you with my response. But would ask what exactly you did mean with this post.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sunny on December 05, 2006, 03:43:38 PM
Post by: sunny on December 05, 2006, 03:43:38 PM
DHF,
I agree with you whole-heartedly. There is a a disturbing practice by "talking heads" in the sports media (which trickles down to Joe and Jane Sportsfan) that things like Lincoln scoring 201 points, gratuitous end zone celebrations, etc., etc., are much bigger deals than they actually are. The language I have read in several posts both on the boards and on the Daily Dose makes it seem as if one basketball team running up the score on another is about one of the worst possible things that could happen in the world. Language is a powerful tool; I wish people would use it more wisely.
I am also in complete agreement with you about the other sportsmanship issues in sports that seem to be accepted or at least largely ignored. It's sad when I think a student section that chants "You Suck" instead of dropping f-bombs or mocking a player's appearance or family is well-behaved. I honestly can't believe people take young children to collegiate and professional sporting events any more - you are often running the risk of putting them into an environment less child-friendly and less civil than a rowdy bar.
I am sure there are many posters who have decried Lincoln's 201 points who exhibit great class as fans. I'm also sure that there are some who bash Lincoln but yet somehow think buying a ticket (or in the case of some places, getting in for free) entitles them to act without common civility or decency for two hours.
I agree with you whole-heartedly. There is a a disturbing practice by "talking heads" in the sports media (which trickles down to Joe and Jane Sportsfan) that things like Lincoln scoring 201 points, gratuitous end zone celebrations, etc., etc., are much bigger deals than they actually are. The language I have read in several posts both on the boards and on the Daily Dose makes it seem as if one basketball team running up the score on another is about one of the worst possible things that could happen in the world. Language is a powerful tool; I wish people would use it more wisely.
I am also in complete agreement with you about the other sportsmanship issues in sports that seem to be accepted or at least largely ignored. It's sad when I think a student section that chants "You Suck" instead of dropping f-bombs or mocking a player's appearance or family is well-behaved. I honestly can't believe people take young children to collegiate and professional sporting events any more - you are often running the risk of putting them into an environment less child-friendly and less civil than a rowdy bar.
I am sure there are many posters who have decried Lincoln's 201 points who exhibit great class as fans. I'm also sure that there are some who bash Lincoln but yet somehow think buying a ticket (or in the case of some places, getting in for free) entitles them to act without common civility or decency for two hours.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:51:50 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 05, 2006, 03:51:50 PM
DHF, Sunny, and all who addressed the issue of what words we use to treat sports events.
I would suggest there is another way of looking at this issue. While many of us have used strong adjectives to describe our thoughts on the Lincoln game I am pretty confident we all (I know I feel this way) realize that it is just a game. Inside the little world of d3hoops what happened may have been a disappointing display of sportsmanship and so we use strong words. But we also recognize that "disappointing, despicable, classless" can be used in this context and not carry nearly the same meaning as they would in a conversation over poverty, famine, war, etc.
One view is using strong words on a basketball game is that it diminishes the meaning of those words in other conversations.
The other view is that we are all mature and educated enough to know that those words can carry different meanings when we are talking about basketball as opposed to famine, poverty, etc.
Plus, if we were always limited to the sort of words whose importance most equates to a basketball game we'd all never be able to use more exciting adjectives than 'happy.' :)
I would suggest there is another way of looking at this issue. While many of us have used strong adjectives to describe our thoughts on the Lincoln game I am pretty confident we all (I know I feel this way) realize that it is just a game. Inside the little world of d3hoops what happened may have been a disappointing display of sportsmanship and so we use strong words. But we also recognize that "disappointing, despicable, classless" can be used in this context and not carry nearly the same meaning as they would in a conversation over poverty, famine, war, etc.
One view is using strong words on a basketball game is that it diminishes the meaning of those words in other conversations.
The other view is that we are all mature and educated enough to know that those words can carry different meanings when we are talking about basketball as opposed to famine, poverty, etc.
Plus, if we were always limited to the sort of words whose importance most equates to a basketball game we'd all never be able to use more exciting adjectives than 'happy.' :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 04:25:18 PM
Post by: AndOne on December 05, 2006, 04:25:18 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 02:35:17 PM
AndOne:
Contrary to your emotional rants, I totally understand your comments and the concept of sportsmanship.
I do not like your attitude nor how you express your opinions. That is what I have a problem with. Calling the Coach an ass and other disparaging terms, referring to the game played as like gangsta ball, and calling me a neanderthal is not very tame as opposed to calling an ignorant person like you "stupid"!
It's fine to have opinions and strong ones at that, but the constant name calling and allowing me to goat you into further name calling clearly reflects YOUR lack of class (by having to revert to name calling) because I'm sure your parents taught you better!
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 07:44:41 AM
Good Job Lincoln University. Forget "AndOne" and his stupid @$$ comments. If Grinnell had done the same thing they would be singing their praises!
Go Lincoln... And check out this article!
http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/article_02355.shtml
Wilburt----
It seems like you are changing horses in the middle of the stream. You start things, but then can't handle the consequences. I'm sure I'm not the only one who believes the Lincoln coach acted like an ass in allowing his players to play what can very aptly be called gangster ball---beating your opponent senseless when you've already knocked him down. Is this how Lincoln's players are going to treat others when they don't have basketball to use as an outlet any longer?
Lastly, the most despicable act of all may have been your inclusion of the article about the black athlete. Was that done to support your contention we shouldn't crucify Lincoln because they're black?
Other posters seem to have the same question.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 04:50:33 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 04:50:33 PM
THIS IS JUST TO ANDONE. I'LL GET TO THE REST OF YOU LATER (IF I HAVE TIME).
AndOne look at the strong use of your choice of words here. You have used "despicable", "crucify", "ass" "gangsta ball" and other choice words to describe the behavior of a basketball team and its coach. And you have described me as a neanderthal.
YES, your comments specifically have a underlying racist tone to it. It is one thing to say that the Lincoln Basketball team behavior was unsportsmanlike (that is fair criticism that I may or may not agree with) BUT it is quite another to say they need to be "crucified" and refer to student-athletes as "gangstas" (would you call the Grinnell team a bunch of gangstas if they did the same thing ???). In short, that is over the TOP and to paraphrase the use of one of your favorite words - perhaps unsportsmanlike (or uncivil) on your part.
But it (your comments and maybe one or two others) perhaps is a reflection of an undercurrent of racism in basketball and I cited an article to indicate that maybe I am not alone in that belief racism in basketball still exists in the minds of many!
DHF hit the nail on the head with his comments and I pretty much agree with him!
AndOne look at the strong use of your choice of words here. You have used "despicable", "crucify", "ass" "gangsta ball" and other choice words to describe the behavior of a basketball team and its coach. And you have described me as a neanderthal.
YES, your comments specifically have a underlying racist tone to it. It is one thing to say that the Lincoln Basketball team behavior was unsportsmanlike (that is fair criticism that I may or may not agree with) BUT it is quite another to say they need to be "crucified" and refer to student-athletes as "gangstas" (would you call the Grinnell team a bunch of gangstas if they did the same thing ???). In short, that is over the TOP and to paraphrase the use of one of your favorite words - perhaps unsportsmanlike (or uncivil) on your part.
But it (your comments and maybe one or two others) perhaps is a reflection of an undercurrent of racism in basketball and I cited an article to indicate that maybe I am not alone in that belief racism in basketball still exists in the minds of many!
DHF hit the nail on the head with his comments and I pretty much agree with him!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2006, 05:30:25 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 05, 2006, 05:30:25 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 04:50:33 PM
(would you call the Grinnell team a bunch of gangstas if they did the same thing ???).
Actually the Grinnell team is a bunch of gangstas, don't let the high SAT scores and the fact that they go to school in Iowa fool you. I've been there. I know.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on December 05, 2006, 07:13:34 PM
Post by: Titan Q on December 05, 2006, 07:13:34 PM
Quote from: diehardfan on December 05, 2006, 02:49:17 PM
First of all, I want to say that I think that PETA and Greenpeace are crazy psychotic organizations full of hypocrites who value life less than the people they hate so much. :D With that out of the way...
Secondly, I know that there are probably two people who are going to read this. But hey, if I make it really boring, maybe it will scare off the stalkers. LOL! The main points are highlighted. If you don't understand, please email me rather that insulting/speculating my supposed opinion... I really had good reasons for stopping posting. Frustrating me into posting is a creative technique, but it's not going to work in the long run. :PQuote from: PointSpecial on December 04, 2006, 06:49:45 PM
But I also feel that there are parallels between how you act and how you carry yourself in something like a basketball game and how you act and how you carry yourself in life. If someone would completely humiliate his fellow man on the basketball court, which, seemingly, has little to know real bearing on his existance, how will he treat his fellow man in life? Will he carry though life believing that, just because he can trample someone, he should?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not even going to begin to say that every participant should recieve the same sized trophy and everybody should get a ribon and a cookie just for participating, but, even in victory, if you carry yourself with humility and grace instead of pompus personal pride and arrogance, then it will affect those around you in a positive way, not a negative one, and it will carry over into life... it will breed leaders who don't think it's their God-given right to lord themselves over those who are below them, rather that they, as leaders, are there to serve, not to crack the slave-driver's whip.
Perhaps this is all a stretch, but then again, maybe it's not.
That's some good stuff right there. Your wife is a good influence on you. Hehe... ;)
In the context of sports I get pretty darn upset about people with bad sportsmanship... because I do think it translates into how they behave toward their fellow man later in life. Note how my original message on the daily dose started with that preface. I was trying (obviously unsuccessfully) to contextualize my remarks. My point had several parts, that were obviously not clearly delineated. My points were only these, and not any of the other things that people have speculated (though I do admit that David has a relatively remarkably good ability to figure out my hasty jumble of words!)
1) I acknowledged the strong real life effects that coaches have on their player's character. As a former athlete I have experienced first hand the effects of good and bad coaches on my actions and thinking. I've had coaches that made me feel worthless and inadequate, and others that inspired me to try harder. My father is a Tae Kwon Do Grandmaster, and my family has owned a Tae Kwon Do School for longer than I've been alive. For years I have seen first hand the affect that he has had on incredibly troubled "at risk" children, by instilling discipline, perseverance, confidence, self control, respect for authority, etc. I've seen kids who are failing out of school, and who turn around under his teaching. Does school directly relate to the martial arts? Well, no, not exactly, but twenty years later we have students coming back and attributing their successful careers and family life to my father and the lessons he taught them as a child. Obviously lessons learned in sports translate into the rest of life. This is why I love Point Special's post so much. I personally thought that this should be obvious to people, and that's why I didn't spend a lot of time on it... it was just a preface to the rest of my statements.
2) If we use the really strong adjectives to describe something like our frustration with basketball, it will diminish our ability to adequately describe real evil. Yes, the character we exhibit when faced with relatively small things shapes how we will respond to the bigger things when we encounter them. But words are powerful. If the Lincoln thing is an abomination... then what are poverty and oppression? What words are left? As a little background on this, I did a weird experiment on myself in high school, where I stopped watching movies rated over PG for a year. What I found was that when I watched the news, I cried at the tragedies it showed... they became more real to me. There's no way to describe it... it's just how it is. Desensitizing is real. I think that by not being careful about the words we choose and way that we think about things, it will make very important lines, like the difference between what was genuinely bad sportsmanship on the part of Lincoln and poverty a little more blurry than they should be.
3)I am NOT in any way trivializing this issue. Sportsmanship is very important, and as I stated in #1 I have experience the reality of that first hand. I do get genuinely upset when players are cocky, or the crowd is crass, or the coach is offensive... that's why I bothered to list all those thing reflect bad sportsmanship... they matter to me. I am sure that much more than 100 of my 4000+ posts on this board specifically mention my issues with the sportsmanship of Wheaton and other programs I've seen over the years. I have very high standards on this issue, and I think it's important in this context.
4) Although this isn't in my initial post, I want to make it clear that I definitely think that there is a place for being fans of a sport. I love Wheaton sports. We all need time to distress and have fun. My reading of this site is one of the many ways that I do that. You guys don't need to know all my hobbies, but I have a lot of them, and only very few of them have anything to do with saving humanity. :D
5) At the same time, my post was also a playful little jab at all the people who spend sooooo much time arguing about basketball which is relatively trivial, when there are bigger issues at stake. With 4000+ posts and 25hours logged on this site, and you know, the whole insane fact that I am creating a Wheaton basketball fansite... that obviously was intended to be a big huge jab at myself! :-[ :D :-X It's important to take anything that happens and compare it to the big picture. It keeps the emotions a little more moderated, and the insults towards others a little more tempered.
6) Also in there was a call for a humility. The action of the Lincoln team did represents bad sportsmanship, sure. My gut reaction was similar to many of you... But there are issues in our own programs as well, issues that should both give us humility and treat this mistake with the kindness we could like our programs to receive when we mess up. The student fans acting crass and drunk and swearing in front of kids bothers me a lot. There are very few schools that I've been too that I'd feel comfortable taking my kids to when I grow up (and obviously, I'm gonna want to brainwash them into being Wheaton fans so this is important!!! :D) The problems in our own programs are also the ones that we are more likely to be able to make an effective difference in. A wise teacher once said that it was better to remove the plank in our own eye than the speck in our neighbors. Even if we only have a speck and our neighbor has a plank, won't removing the speck in our eyes first help us see better to help remove their plank? This obviously doesn't mean that we aren't supposed to be doing anything about sportsmanship... it just means that we should discuss the issue of sportsmanship with the same humility that we expect out of any player, coach or program we want to exhibit good sportsmanship.
And well, I really don't have time to type any more, so hopefully that makes things clear enough that people aren't annoyed any more. :P :)
Well said, April. I have a much better understanding of your position on all of this now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2006, 09:13:43 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2006, 09:13:43 PM
They sent us a press release so I can post that:
QuoteFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Rob Knox, Assistant Athletics Director for Sports Information Management,
(610) 932-8300 ext. 3384
Lincoln's official statement on this past weekend's men's basketball game
Lincoln University of Pennsylvania has a long and proud tradition of excellence in
athletic competition and firmly embraces the principle of good sportsmanship.
Accordingly, it is with much regret the demonstration in opposition to that
principle by the men's basketball coaching staff in Saturday's game against Ohio
State University-Marion. It was an anomaly.
We have reiterated to our coaching staff the university's expectations concerning
athletic competition from opening to final whistle. Like all institutions that play
on the field of athletic competition, Lincoln University's ultimate goal in a game
is to win, but for Lion teams winning must occur with fair play and good
sportsmanship in focus.
As our teams move forward to the remainder of this athletic season and into the
future, they will display the principle of good sportsmanship in all its
ramifications.
Sincerely,
Alfonso Scandrett Jr.
Director of Athletics
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 05, 2006, 09:20:42 PM
Post by: sac on December 05, 2006, 09:20:42 PM
interesting press release, especially the part where they mention the coaching staff.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 05, 2006, 09:23:29 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 05, 2006, 09:23:29 PM
Quote from: sac on December 05, 2006, 09:20:42 PM
interesting press release, especially the part where they mention the coaching staff.
Yes, very. I wonder if there was any action taken in that regard, other than "reiteration?"
Thanks for posting that, Pat.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 05, 2006, 09:33:19 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 05, 2006, 09:33:19 PM
Anyone see Yuille on Cold Pizza on ESPN2 this morning?
He mentioned some things I hadn't seen discussed before on this topic.
1. Discussions he had with OSU-M's coach after the first night of the tournament indicated that they were going to go home and forfeit the second game.
2. Lincoln showed up at the gym the next day and were warming up in traditional 30 minutes before the game and OSU-M still wasn't there. They apparently showed up at the gym 15 minutes before scheduled tip...again, this is all said by Yuille on ESPN2 this morning.
3. After the first half, Yuille sent one of his coaches to talk to OSU-M and see if they wanted to continue the game.
4. This is a tournament and Lincoln did not get to pick who they played. They certainly did not lose purposely the night before to face OSU-M the next day...but in a tourney, you don't set the schedule.
5. They played the game. End of story. They didn't play it the way some people wanted to, and that's just too bad for those people. It isn't the first time its happened and it won't be the last.
6. The game has no impact on Lincoln's status in D3 or the Top 25. Will it matter to their record in the long run, no. If they win by 10, 40, 80, or over 100, it's a win and they played who the tournament told them to play.
7. For those bothered by the fact Wylie was in the game late...the guy's playing the game. When and under what circumstances, I don't think it matters.
Those are my thoughts.
Anyone else see Cold Pizza this morning?
He mentioned some things I hadn't seen discussed before on this topic.
1. Discussions he had with OSU-M's coach after the first night of the tournament indicated that they were going to go home and forfeit the second game.
2. Lincoln showed up at the gym the next day and were warming up in traditional 30 minutes before the game and OSU-M still wasn't there. They apparently showed up at the gym 15 minutes before scheduled tip...again, this is all said by Yuille on ESPN2 this morning.
3. After the first half, Yuille sent one of his coaches to talk to OSU-M and see if they wanted to continue the game.
4. This is a tournament and Lincoln did not get to pick who they played. They certainly did not lose purposely the night before to face OSU-M the next day...but in a tourney, you don't set the schedule.
5. They played the game. End of story. They didn't play it the way some people wanted to, and that's just too bad for those people. It isn't the first time its happened and it won't be the last.
6. The game has no impact on Lincoln's status in D3 or the Top 25. Will it matter to their record in the long run, no. If they win by 10, 40, 80, or over 100, it's a win and they played who the tournament told them to play.
7. For those bothered by the fact Wylie was in the game late...the guy's playing the game. When and under what circumstances, I don't think it matters.
Those are my thoughts.
Anyone else see Cold Pizza this morning?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2006, 10:10:37 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2006, 10:10:37 PM
Well, I might wonder about the coach's judgment and change my ballot appropriately.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 05, 2006, 10:28:04 PM
Post by: sac on December 05, 2006, 10:28:04 PM
Ohio Northern 113 College of the Bahamas 45
This score doesn't bother me as much as the fact that my High School guidance counselor never let me know about The College of The Bahamas.
Sun glasses anyone? 8)
This score doesn't bother me as much as the fact that my High School guidance counselor never let me know about The College of The Bahamas.
Sun glasses anyone? 8)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 05, 2006, 10:34:21 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 05, 2006, 10:34:21 PM
patcummings,
Two of your points I think DO need response.
(And this will incorporate some points in the second article wilburt posted, which I assume he thought exonerated Lincoln.)
#5. "It isn't the first time its happened, and it won't be the last". In terms of mismatches, true. In terms of 123 point stompings, with an AA candidate scoring 36 of the last 56 points, it sure as h*** is a first, and it sure as h*** better be the last!
#7. I hardly even know how to respond to this one! What a slap in the face to former teammate Kyle Myrick, to erase him from this part of the Lincoln record book by taking advantage of what was basically an intramural team (wilburt's 2nd article: OSU-M didn't even have a real coach - their sixth man WAS the coach [5 freshmen and Sisler], and they were a club team until this year!); if I recall correctly Kyle got HIS 62 on a night when they needed every one of them! Somehow I don't think Kyle is celebrating his former coach and former teammate conspiring to diss him that way!
Is Coach Yuille scheduling a junior high team so that next year his star (whoever it may be) can score 64?!
Two of your points I think DO need response.
(And this will incorporate some points in the second article wilburt posted, which I assume he thought exonerated Lincoln.)
#5. "It isn't the first time its happened, and it won't be the last". In terms of mismatches, true. In terms of 123 point stompings, with an AA candidate scoring 36 of the last 56 points, it sure as h*** is a first, and it sure as h*** better be the last!
#7. I hardly even know how to respond to this one! What a slap in the face to former teammate Kyle Myrick, to erase him from this part of the Lincoln record book by taking advantage of what was basically an intramural team (wilburt's 2nd article: OSU-M didn't even have a real coach - their sixth man WAS the coach [5 freshmen and Sisler], and they were a club team until this year!); if I recall correctly Kyle got HIS 62 on a night when they needed every one of them! Somehow I don't think Kyle is celebrating his former coach and former teammate conspiring to diss him that way!
Is Coach Yuille scheduling a junior high team so that next year his star (whoever it may be) can score 64?!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 06, 2006, 01:08:46 AM
Post by: AndOne on December 06, 2006, 01:08:46 AM
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 04:50:33 PM
THIS IS JUST TO ANDONE. I'LL GET TO THE REST OF YOU LATER (IF I HAVE TIME).
AndOne look at the strong use of your choice of words here. You have used "despicable", "crucify", "ass" "gangsta ball" and other choice words to describe the behavior of a basketball team and its coach. And you have described me as a neanderthal.
YES, your comments specifically have a underlying racist tone to it. It is one thing to say that the Lincoln Basketball team behavior was unsportsmanlike (that is fair criticism that I may or may not agree with) BUT it is quite another to say they need to be "crucified" and refer to student-athletes as "gangstas" (would you call the Grinnell team a bunch of gangstas if they did the same thing ???). In short, that is over the TOP and to paraphrase the use of one of your favorite words - perhaps unsportsmanlike (or uncivil) on your part.
But it (your comments and maybe one or two others) perhaps is a reflection of an undercurrent of racism in basketball and I cited an article to indicate that maybe I am not alone in that belief racism in basketball still exists in the minds of many!
DHF hit the nail on the head with his comments and I pretty much agree with him!
Wilburt-----
Yes, I did use strong words for 2 reasons. First, the totally classless acts of the Lincoln coach and team called for a strong response. Secondly, strong words seemed like the only ones that had any possibility of getting through to someone like you who actually defended Lincoln's actions. Alas, I failed even when using strong words. :(
Sorry if you don't like it, but gangsters (I specifically DID NOT use the word gangstas (as YOU did) because some people could possibly find this race based & offensive) is EXACTLY how the Lincoln team played---they not only got the other team down, but kicked and stomped them afterward. Grinnell never did anything like that as far as I'm aware.
Additionally, your attempt to characterize ANY of my comments as racial in any way, shape, or form is both pitiful and laughable. YOU are the one who interjected the racial question with the inclusion of your attachment of the article in your posts---suggesting the only reason so many people criticized Lincoln is because the team is African-American. Hogwash.
Finally, if you have ANY question Lincoln acted in a clueless, classless manner, see the post above which contains an apology from the Lincoln AD. Welcome to the real world.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 06, 2006, 01:48:12 AM
Post by: John Gleich on December 06, 2006, 01:48:12 AM
This whole discussion is interesting on so many fronts, from Pat Cummings' comment about the interview on Cold Pizza, to the press release brought forth by Pat Coleman, to various other posters' arguments this past weekend against how the game was played, citing largely abstract ideas, of which I, too and "guilty" (and of which I, too, still stand by) backed up by interpretations of "facts" discovered in the press release, combatted by certain posters defending the actions tooth and nail, seemingly to the death.
This is, by far, the most controversial issue that I can remember dealing with DIII basketball in the 4+ years I have lurked/posted on this site. It is something that seems to transcend simply the teams or conferences that were involved and has brought comment truly from across the country. Part of it does show the differences we all have, but, as some have said, to focus on the wrongs of others could blind us of our own shortcomings. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, this game and situation occurred, and we can't go back and change the outcome. We can only learn from what occurred (which it appears that Lincoln U, or at the very least the coaching staff has, or is currently) and hope to not repeat it. I just fear, with the path our culture appears to be taking and some of the roll models out there for kids these days, especially athletically, that situations similar to this may be deemed as acceptable, or worse, encouraged. I think that D-3 basketball needs to get back to we have been for so long... the purest of sport, played for the love of the game, with due respect for all. Let's let these college athletes be roll models for the kids they play in front of each night, how to play your heart out without spitting in your opponent's face (or kicking him in the groin).
The nature of sport, as in life, is that there is a winner and a loser. But, like I said before, winning with grace and humility carries so much farther and affects so much more positively than anything else that this should be what is strived for the most.
This is, by far, the most controversial issue that I can remember dealing with DIII basketball in the 4+ years I have lurked/posted on this site. It is something that seems to transcend simply the teams or conferences that were involved and has brought comment truly from across the country. Part of it does show the differences we all have, but, as some have said, to focus on the wrongs of others could blind us of our own shortcomings. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, this game and situation occurred, and we can't go back and change the outcome. We can only learn from what occurred (which it appears that Lincoln U, or at the very least the coaching staff has, or is currently) and hope to not repeat it. I just fear, with the path our culture appears to be taking and some of the roll models out there for kids these days, especially athletically, that situations similar to this may be deemed as acceptable, or worse, encouraged. I think that D-3 basketball needs to get back to we have been for so long... the purest of sport, played for the love of the game, with due respect for all. Let's let these college athletes be roll models for the kids they play in front of each night, how to play your heart out without spitting in your opponent's face (or kicking him in the groin).
The nature of sport, as in life, is that there is a winner and a loser. But, like I said before, winning with grace and humility carries so much farther and affects so much more positively than anything else that this should be what is strived for the most.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 06, 2006, 05:48:21 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 06, 2006, 05:48:21 AM
Quote from: diehardfan on December 05, 2006, 02:49:17 PM
First of all, I want to say ...
[big snip]
And well, I really don't have time to type any more, so hopefully that makes things clear enough that people aren't annoyed any more. :P :)
Looks like the dam burst. ;)
Great to have you back, April, if only for a cameo appearance (albeit, one of Sagerian length).
Quote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 04:50:33 PMDHF hit the nail on the head with his comments and I pretty much agree with him!
Not true, Wilburt. DHF pretty much hit the nail on the head with her comments, and you pretty much agree with her. ;)
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 05, 2006, 05:30:25 PMQuote from: wilburt on December 05, 2006, 04:50:33 PM
(would you call the Grinnell team a bunch of gangstas if they did the same thing ???).
Actually the Grinnell team is a bunch of gangstas, don't let the high SAT scores and the fact that they go to school in Iowa fool you. I've been there. I know.
rich, white Grinnell student-athletes + gangster behavior on the basketball court = future commodities traders ;)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 05, 2006, 09:13:43 PM
They sent us a press release so I can post that:QuoteFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Rob Knox, Assistant Athletics Director for Sports Information Management,
(610) 932-8300 ext. 3384
Lincoln's official statement on this past weekend's men's basketball game
Lincoln University of Pennsylvania has a long and proud tradition of excellence in
athletic competition and firmly embraces the principle of good sportsmanship.
Accordingly, it is with much regret the demonstration in opposition to that
principle by the men's basketball coaching staff in Saturday's game against Ohio
State University-Marion. It was an anomaly.
We have reiterated to our coaching staff the university's expectations concerning
athletic competition from opening to final whistle. Like all institutions that play
on the field of athletic competition, Lincoln University's ultimate goal in a game
is to win, but for Lion teams winning must occur with fair play and good
sportsmanship in focus.
As our teams move forward to the remainder of this athletic season and into the
future, they will display the principle of good sportsmanship in all its
ramifications.
Sincerely,
Alfonso Scandrett Jr.
Director of Athletics
I still have some issues with Coach Yuille, but I have a lot of respect for his boss. The cynical amongst us might say that Alfonso Scandrett was merely performing institutional damage control in the face of a lot of negative national publicity, but I choose to see it as his taking control of the situation and being a stand-up guy by submitting that mea culpa press release -- especially since I know that ADs are very reluctant to criticize their coaches in public. And there was no institutional damage control involved in his repeating that mea culpa in a private e-mail to someone on the other side of the country (OxyBob) who has neither press credentials nor any link whatsoever to Lincoln or its opponents.
Well done, Mr. Scandrett!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 06, 2006, 07:49:24 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 06, 2006, 07:49:24 AM
Quote from: AndOne on December 06, 2006, 01:08:46 AM
Wilburt-----
Yes, I did use strong words for 2 reasons. First, the totally classless acts of the Lincoln coach and team called for a strong response. Secondly, strong words seemed like the only ones that had any possibility of getting through to someone like you who actually defended Lincoln's actions. Alas, I failed even when using strong words. :(
Sorry if you don't like it, but gangsters (I specifically DID NOT use the word gangstas (as YOU did) because some people could possibly find this race based & offensive) is EXACTLY how the Lincoln team played---they not only got the other team down, but kicked and stomped them afterward. Grinnell never did anything like that as far as I'm aware.
Additionally, your attempt to characterize ANY of my comments as racial in any way, shape, or form is both pitiful and laughable. YOU are the one who interjected the racial question with the inclusion of your attachment of the article in your posts---suggesting the only reason so many people criticized Lincoln is because the team is African-American. Hogwash.
I questioned your use of words to criticize Lincoln as racist - you dumb@$$. (That seems to be the only type of language you understand). NOT the fact that people criticized them because the team is African-American. (I may or may not agree with the criticism). You must not have done very well in English comprehension because you failed to grasp the distinction I made. Others seemed to have gotten it!
Given your tendency to use such strong language I hereby give you my Mike "Kramer" RICHARDS AWARD FOR OVEREACTING to hecklers or anyone else who may happen to disagree with you. :D
DHF - my apologizes! I still AGREE WITH HER!
BTW, I still support the Lincoln Basketball team and wish them well the rest of the season. I also wish the Ohio State University-Marion basketball team Good Luck the rest of the season as well!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 06, 2006, 08:40:45 AM
Post by: patcummings on December 06, 2006, 08:40:45 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 05, 2006, 10:34:21 PM
patcummings,
Two of your points I think DO need response.
(And this will incorporate some points in the second article wilburt posted, which I assume he thought exonerated Lincoln.)
#5. "It isn't the first time its happened, and it won't be the last". In terms of mismatches, true. In terms of 123 point stompings, with an AA candidate scoring 36 of the last 56 points, it sure as h*** is a first, and it sure as h*** better be the last!
#7. I hardly even know how to respond to this one! What a slap in the face to former teammate Kyle Myrick, to erase him from this part of the Lincoln record book by taking advantage of what was basically an intramural team (wilburt's 2nd article: OSU-M didn't even have a real coach - their sixth man WAS the coach [5 freshmen and Sisler], and they were a club team until this year!); if I recall correctly Kyle got HIS 62 on a night when they needed every one of them! Somehow I don't think Kyle is celebrating his former coach and former teammate conspiring to diss him that way!
Is Coach Yuille scheduling a junior high team so that next year his star (whoever it may be) can score 64?!
How completely ignorant are you?
This was a tournament AT Salem International. Wayne State University was scheduled to play as the fourth team. They backed out. Salem Int'l got OSU-Marion to play.
Lincoln did not pick to play OSU. They only knew that they could play Salem as they were the hosts.
Lincoln is an independent and it makes scheduling difficult. A tourney like this is a good place to get games...Their schedule this year is actually more palatable than it has been in recent years, with games spread out more than they had been.
Oh, and Kyle Myrick's 62 points came during the 115-83 win over Penn State-Abington. His final six points came on three-pointers in the final 90 seconds of the blowout win. Yeah, they really needed those.
I can just see Yuille and Wylie..."conspiring" in the locker room. "Let's go screw Myrick."
It all makes sense now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 06, 2006, 08:55:57 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 06, 2006, 08:55:57 AM
Thank you Pat Cummings for your sense of rationality. Mr. Ypsi when you assume you know what you do don't you?
Mr. Ypsi et al. I don't have a problem necessarily with the criticism of Lincoln per se, I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HOW LINCOLN IS CRITICISED!
As Pat Cummings ably stated and I echo - How completely ignorant are you guys?
Mr. Ypsi et al. I don't have a problem necessarily with the criticism of Lincoln per se, I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HOW LINCOLN IS CRITICISED!
As Pat Cummings ably stated and I echo - How completely ignorant are you guys?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 06, 2006, 09:03:34 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 06, 2006, 09:03:34 AM
Touche Pat and Wilburt.......Touche
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2006, 09:33:12 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 06, 2006, 09:33:12 AM
Wow; this is getting to be totally nuts.
Obviously there are people who feel that having your starters in at the end of a 120 point win is very, very, very wrong. There are also others who appear to say that there is no problem with this. I'm pretty sure after the fiery rhetoric being bandied about, that neither side is really much into presuading the other or reconsidering their own positions.
Why don't we just hold our embroiled rage to ourselves and reserve virtual furtive, sideways glances at each other for the next several months?
If this pursists into the holiday break all we're going to do is waste Pat's valuable server space with repetitive insults and overreaction.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 06, 2006, 11:32:37 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 06, 2006, 11:32:37 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 06, 2006, 09:33:12 AM
Obviously there are people who feel that having your starters in at the end of a 120 point win is very, very, very wrong.
Wow ... a week ago this is a statement I was sure I'd never hear.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2006, 11:36:54 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2006, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 06, 2006, 09:33:12 AM
Wow; this is getting to be totally nuts.
Obviously there are people who feel that having your starters in at the end of a 120 point win is very, very, very wrong. There are also others who appear to say that there is no problem with this. I'm pretty sure after the fiery rhetoric being bandied about, that neither side is really much into presuading the other or reconsidering their own positions.
Why don't we just hold our embroiled rage to ourselves and reserve virtual furtive, sideways glances at each other for the next several months?
If this pursists into the holiday break all we're going to do is waste Pat's valuable server space with repetitive insults and overreaction.
Having gotten in too late to the heart of this discussion on sportmanship, I was going to expand the concept to include those student bodies which snobbishly yell out, "Safety School"!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 06, 2006, 08:01:52 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 06, 2006, 08:01:52 PM
I am frustrated by the topic for this reason...I think both sides of the "Was Lincoln right?" vs. "Was Lincoln wrong?" are valid. There are legitimate positions for both.
Did they embarrass an overmatched team? Absolutely.
Did they play the game the way they play it and not change no matter who their opponent is? Absolutely.
Did they play the opponent they drew? Yes.
Did they approach the game in an intelligent, well-developed game plan unique to their opponent like most teams would? No - at least it certainly doesn't seem that way.
A review of Lincoln's immediate basketball past would seem to indicate that the Lions can only play one type of basketball. They don't seem to be very flexible (note the final scores in their losses). I think it would have been harder for them to "slow up" and "ease-off" of OSU-M than playing the way they did.
I believe there is value in the quantification of the win. Compare what UDC did the night before versus their season average...and Lincoln isn't that far out of line. Something Pat Coleman has noted.
Anyone see this one?
The University of Tennessee women's team beat UT-Martin 85-29 one game after losing to UNC in a battle of real solid teams. No one is talking about that, but proportionally, it's similar. It was 43-13 at the half, and some of the starters played in the 2nd half. The Lady Vols took 15 3-pointers in the 2nd half. Two of their starters, who had 2nd half minutes, also had more points combined than the entire UT-Martin team.
No one is talking about the fact that Tenn. had 74% of the points in the game.
Lincoln had 72% of the points in their game. A little perspective never hurt.
Should Wylie have played the last nine minutes of the game? Would it have been different if he played the first nine minutes of the 2nd half? The all-American played 24 minutes...does it really matter in which 24 minutes of the game he played. Pat Summitt's sophomore all-American had 22 minutes with 17 points and 11 rebounds.
I think we are experiencing a whole bunch of spin because of the 201 number. We see something eye-popping and respond with extremity to a situation that was repeated a few nights later on a smaller scale but with the same lopsided, eye-popping result.
All examples drawn to scale.
Did they embarrass an overmatched team? Absolutely.
Did they play the game the way they play it and not change no matter who their opponent is? Absolutely.
Did they play the opponent they drew? Yes.
Did they approach the game in an intelligent, well-developed game plan unique to their opponent like most teams would? No - at least it certainly doesn't seem that way.
A review of Lincoln's immediate basketball past would seem to indicate that the Lions can only play one type of basketball. They don't seem to be very flexible (note the final scores in their losses). I think it would have been harder for them to "slow up" and "ease-off" of OSU-M than playing the way they did.
I believe there is value in the quantification of the win. Compare what UDC did the night before versus their season average...and Lincoln isn't that far out of line. Something Pat Coleman has noted.
Anyone see this one?
The University of Tennessee women's team beat UT-Martin 85-29 one game after losing to UNC in a battle of real solid teams. No one is talking about that, but proportionally, it's similar. It was 43-13 at the half, and some of the starters played in the 2nd half. The Lady Vols took 15 3-pointers in the 2nd half. Two of their starters, who had 2nd half minutes, also had more points combined than the entire UT-Martin team.
No one is talking about the fact that Tenn. had 74% of the points in the game.
Lincoln had 72% of the points in their game. A little perspective never hurt.
Should Wylie have played the last nine minutes of the game? Would it have been different if he played the first nine minutes of the 2nd half? The all-American played 24 minutes...does it really matter in which 24 minutes of the game he played. Pat Summitt's sophomore all-American had 22 minutes with 17 points and 11 rebounds.
I think we are experiencing a whole bunch of spin because of the 201 number. We see something eye-popping and respond with extremity to a situation that was repeated a few nights later on a smaller scale but with the same lopsided, eye-popping result.
All examples drawn to scale.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 06, 2006, 08:45:42 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 06, 2006, 08:45:42 PM
Pat,
Good post, but why did Wylie play ANY minutes in the second half (whether first or last)? Is he really going to gain anything but a bit of exercise against these guys? This is the chance for the coach to reward the guys who see nothing but 'garbage minutes'; they should have played the ENTIRE second half (and probably most of the first)!.
Two points about your UT-women's comparison (uh oh, two points is what got me in trouble last night! :D):
1. This is a D3 MEN'S bball forum - I have no idea whether or not the d1 UT women's team is receiving grief elsewhere (and doubt you do either), though probably not because,
2. It's a great sign for women's hoops that you even noticed this. 15-20 years ago (perhaps even more recently) that was the NORM for mismatches (I recall one hs game in Michigan [unfortunately have NO idea where to go to check that memory! ;)] where the losing team scored ONE point)! That you even noticed the UT score (and considered it to be so unusual) is a sign that more and more young women are becoming involved, and are becoming ATHLETES! Those sort of beatdowns are still more common in women's hoops, but nothing compared to what they once were.
Good post, but why did Wylie play ANY minutes in the second half (whether first or last)? Is he really going to gain anything but a bit of exercise against these guys? This is the chance for the coach to reward the guys who see nothing but 'garbage minutes'; they should have played the ENTIRE second half (and probably most of the first)!.
Two points about your UT-women's comparison (uh oh, two points is what got me in trouble last night! :D):
1. This is a D3 MEN'S bball forum - I have no idea whether or not the d1 UT women's team is receiving grief elsewhere (and doubt you do either), though probably not because,
2. It's a great sign for women's hoops that you even noticed this. 15-20 years ago (perhaps even more recently) that was the NORM for mismatches (I recall one hs game in Michigan [unfortunately have NO idea where to go to check that memory! ;)] where the losing team scored ONE point)! That you even noticed the UT score (and considered it to be so unusual) is a sign that more and more young women are becoming involved, and are becoming ATHLETES! Those sort of beatdowns are still more common in women's hoops, but nothing compared to what they once were.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 07, 2006, 01:58:55 AM
Post by: AndOne on December 07, 2006, 01:58:55 AM
Quote from: wilburt on December 06, 2006, 07:49:24 AMQuote from: AndOne on December 06, 2006, 01:08:46 AM
Wilburt-----
Yes, I did use strong words for 2 reasons. First, the totally classless acts of the Lincoln coach and team called for a strong response. Secondly, strong words seemed like the only ones that had any possibility of getting through to someone like you who actually defended Lincoln's actions. Alas, I failed even when using strong words. :(
Sorry if you don't like it, but gangsters (I specifically DID NOT use the word gangstas (as YOU did) because some people could possibly find this race based & offensive) is EXACTLY how the Lincoln team played---they not only got the other team down, but kicked and stomped them afterward. Grinnell never did anything like that as far as I'm aware.
Additionally, your attempt to characterize ANY of my comments as racial in any way, shape, or form is both pitiful and laughable. YOU are the one who interjected the racial question with the inclusion of your attachment of the article in your posts---suggesting the only reason so many people criticized Lincoln is because the team is African-American. Hogwash.
I questioned your use of words to criticize Lincoln as racist - you dumb@$$. (That seems to be the only type of language you understand). NOT the fact that people criticized them because the team is African-American. (I may or may not agree with the criticism). You must not have done very well in English comprehension because you failed to grasp the distinction I made. Others seemed to have gotten it!
Given your tendency to use such strong language I hereby give you my Mike "Kramer" RICHARDS AWARD FOR OVEREACTING to hecklers or anyone else who may happen to disagree with you. :D
DHF - my apologizes! I still AGREE WITH HER!
BTW, I still support the Lincoln Basketball team and wish them well the rest of the season. I also wish the Ohio State University-Marion basketball team Good Luck the rest of the season as well!
Re: MAC Freedom League
« Reply #1159 on: Yesterday at 07:31:55 pm » Reply with quote Modify message Remove message
Quote from: wilburt on Yesterday at 01:11:09 pm
MinusOne :-*
Quote from: wb1313 on Yesterday at 02:59:49 pm
What are you talking about? Racist overtones from me? I'm not allowed to criticize a HBCU over what 99% of America felt was out of control and unsportsmanlike. If that is the criteria for being a racist then fine...you got me...(sarcasm)
Wilburt, your lack of knowledge and understanding astounds me and the fact that you use childish antics such as copy the first four words of a sentence to attempt a lame joke is pathetic.
I'm beyond wanting to rip you apart through witty conversation. The realization that i'd be going up against someone with a lower IQ than the coach at Lincoln makes me fully believe that you're not worth my time. Goodbye!
Quote from: NEPAFAN on Yesterday at 03:47:48 pm
Please post the "racist overtones" used in any post on this board...
Wilbur----
I am going to summarize things and then I'm done with you. Its not worth any more space & time.
* That Lincoln U, & especially its coach, displayed a lack of judgement, leadership,
sportsmanship, and even common decency is NOT open to question. If you don't
want to believe me, review all the posts both here and in Bumblin' B's. The vast
majority of them support this fact.
* That Lincoln's actions were/are indefensible is evidenced by, amomg other things,
the fact that the Lincoln AD issued a public apology, and even your perhaps
closest ally, njlincolnlion apoligized on behalf of Lincoln in his post of 11:20:45
on 12/3/06.
* NOBODY---myself, Cold Case, wb1313, NEPAFAN, or anyone else EVER introduced
race in any way, shape, or form into the discussion of Lincoln's abhorant behavior
While I DID describe their play as "like gangsters," I made it a point
to explain my meaning by indicating I meant that it didn't seen like enough to get
OSUM down, but then they also had to beat & kick them after they were down by
scoring 70 more than OSUM in the 2nd 1/2 after they already led by 53 at halftime
* YOU in fact interjected race into the discussion by adding the attachment
concerning the racial incident (http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/
article_02335.shtml) into one of your early posts.
* YOU further attempted to inflame the issue in one of your replies to me in which
you stated that I used the word "gangsta" (rather than gangsters as above)
You changed what I said to feebily attempt to support your race based argument
* We learn as kids that when a group of people is gathered the one who shouts
"Who farted" is usually the one who did it. I think most of us also know that in a
discussion on any subject, the one who first plays the race card and attempts
to label the opposition's arguments as racist is usually the one who has the
biggest problem relating to members of the opposite race, and in fact, is
probably the most racist of the group.
* As you have done now a couple of times, I would expect you to give me another
negative Karma point.
Goodbye Wil. Take care, and good luck in life. As I can't give Karma points yet, I'll just close by returning the :-* you gave me along with the minus Karma at the top
of this post. I hope its as good for you as it was for me. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2006, 04:48:26 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 07, 2006, 04:48:26 AM
Since Pat Cummings is correct that we should be comparing the Lincoln/OSUM game to other blowouts in order to establish some statistical context, let's look at a D3 men's game that was played on Wednesday night. Wheaton (IL), for whatever reason (I'm hoping it was because of a late schedule cancellation) found itself hosting a hopelessly overmatched 0-4 Principia team that hasn't beaten a D3 opponent in close to a year and a half. Principia has been blown out by grotesque margins in all but one of their games (the exception being an eight-point loss to St. Louis College of Pharmacy, which ought to tell you just how far down the pyramid of small-school basketball you have to go to find a worthy opponent for Principia, as SLCOP is 2-10 and owns a victory over club team Logan Chiropractic as their only other win) in what is shaping up to be a season as dismal for the Panthers as was their 2-22 campaign last year.
Wheaton beat the Panthers, 112-52 (which means that Wheaton scored 68% of the points, FWIW). Ten minutes into the game it was 25-11, and at the half it was 52-21. But those scores could've been far more lopsided, as Wheaton head coach Bill Harris yanked his five starters very early in the game. None of the Wheaton starters played more than nine minutes of the entire ballgame. And the sixth man, forward Matt Ankeny, only saw nine minutes of action himself. All fifteen players who suited up played (four of them for the first time all season), and all but one of the non-rotation players at least doubled his total of minutes played this season.
While it is true that Wheaton was attempting treys throughout the second half, if you examine the PBP you'll notice that most of Wheaton's shot attempts came 20 seconds or more after a change of possession -- an indication that the hosts were trying to hold the ball and thus hold down the score. In that context a trey attempt is understandable, as it may be the only option left with the shot clock winding down to zero. Several of Wheaton's quicker second-half scores came immediately after steals -- and I think you can make the case that stopping and holding the ball after a steal when there's no defender between you and the basket is a bigger insult to the other team than is going in for the quick uncontested layup.
There is a right way and a wrong way for a coach to manage a blowout. Wheaton's Bill Harris did it the right way.
Wheaton beat the Panthers, 112-52 (which means that Wheaton scored 68% of the points, FWIW). Ten minutes into the game it was 25-11, and at the half it was 52-21. But those scores could've been far more lopsided, as Wheaton head coach Bill Harris yanked his five starters very early in the game. None of the Wheaton starters played more than nine minutes of the entire ballgame. And the sixth man, forward Matt Ankeny, only saw nine minutes of action himself. All fifteen players who suited up played (four of them for the first time all season), and all but one of the non-rotation players at least doubled his total of minutes played this season.
While it is true that Wheaton was attempting treys throughout the second half, if you examine the PBP you'll notice that most of Wheaton's shot attempts came 20 seconds or more after a change of possession -- an indication that the hosts were trying to hold the ball and thus hold down the score. In that context a trey attempt is understandable, as it may be the only option left with the shot clock winding down to zero. Several of Wheaton's quicker second-half scores came immediately after steals -- and I think you can make the case that stopping and holding the ball after a steal when there's no defender between you and the basket is a bigger insult to the other team than is going in for the quick uncontested layup.
There is a right way and a wrong way for a coach to manage a blowout. Wheaton's Bill Harris did it the right way.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on December 07, 2006, 07:07:27 AM
Post by: hopefan on December 07, 2006, 07:07:27 AM
good post Greg Sager
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 07, 2006, 09:20:31 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 07, 2006, 09:20:31 AM
Quote from: patcummings on December 06, 2006, 08:01:52 PM
I am frustrated by the topic for this reason...I think both sides of the "Was Lincoln right?" vs. "Was Lincoln wrong?" are valid. There are legitimate positions for both.
Did they embarrass an overmatched team? Absolutely.
Did they play the game the way they play it and not change no matter who their opponent is? Absolutely.
Did they play the opponent they drew? Yes.
Did they approach the game in an intelligent, well-developed game plan unique to their opponent like most teams would? No - at least it certainly doesn't seem that way.
A review of Lincoln's immediate basketball past would seem to indicate that the Lions can only play one type of basketball. They don't seem to be very flexible (note the final scores in their losses). I think it would have been harder for them to "slow up" and "ease-off" of OSU-M than playing the way they did.
I believe there is value in the quantification of the win. Compare what UDC did the night before versus their season average...and Lincoln isn't that far out of line. Something Pat Coleman has noted.
Anyone see this one?
The University of Tennessee women's team beat UT-Martin 85-29 one game after losing to UNC in a battle of real solid teams. No one is talking about that, but proportionally, it's similar. It was 43-13 at the half, and some of the starters played in the 2nd half. The Lady Vols took 15 3-pointers in the 2nd half. Two of their starters, who had 2nd half minutes, also had more points combined than the entire UT-Martin team.
No one is talking about the fact that Tenn. had 74% of the points in the game.
Lincoln had 72% of the points in their game. A little perspective never hurt.
Should Wylie have played the last nine minutes of the game? Would it have been different if he played the first nine minutes of the 2nd half? The all-American played 24 minutes...does it really matter in which 24 minutes of the game he played. Pat Summitt's sophomore all-American had 22 minutes with 17 points and 11 rebounds.
I think we are experiencing a whole bunch of spin because of the 201 number. We see something eye-popping and respond with extremity to a situation that was repeated a few nights later on a smaller scale but with the same lopsided, eye-popping result.
All examples drawn to scale.
Great Post Pat Cummings
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2006, 09:31:42 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2006, 09:31:42 AM
I'd say that Tennessee game was a pretty poor showing too, espeecially for a squad entire bench is legitimately better than the Martin squad.
I like how Wheaton handled their game last night (although I'm more disturbed that Principia could be so bad as to lose by that much to the end of a bench, even one as good as Wheaton's), however I would have had no problem with them scoring even more. I just want to see those guys at the end of the bench get the minutes.
Wheaton did that, Tennessee, Lincoln and plenty of other teams whose blowouts did not get the same press didn't.
Whatever, I'm well over this. Do we have any other B news to report? There are two other spots besides Lincoln's up for grabs in the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on December 07, 2006, 11:05:37 AM
Post by: Titan Q on December 07, 2006, 11:05:37 AM
Quote from: patcummings on December 06, 2006, 08:01:52 PM
The University of Tennessee women's team beat UT-Martin 85-29 one game after losing to UNC in a battle of real solid teams. No one is talking about that, but proportionally, it's similar. It was 43-13 at the half, and some of the starters played in the 2nd half. The Lady Vols took 15 3-pointers in the 2nd half. Two of their starters, who had 2nd half minutes, also had more points combined than the entire UT-Martin team.
No one is talking about the fact that Tenn. had 74% of the points in the game.
I don't think this is great comparison. I certainly didn't see the game, but in reading the game recap, it sure doesn't sound to me like Tennessee was running the score up.
Parker scored 11 points in the first 12 minutes of the first half and then sat and watched until halftime. She added six points in the second half before going to the bench with most of the other starters with 10:15 remaining and the Lady Vols ahead by 41. (Candice Parker is Tennessee's All-American.)
When to pull starters out of a blowout is certainly up for debate, but to me, if you have your best player and your starters on the bench for the final 10 minutes or so, I think it is pretty clear you are not running the score up. In the Lincoln game, Wylie took 10 shots in the final 10:00 and was in the game until the final horn. It was so bad, Lincoln's A.D. had to issue a statement.
Also, UT-Martin is Pat Summitt's alma mater -- the basketball court is named after Summitt. Summitt scheduled the game as a way to thank the university.
"Obviously if it weren't for the folks at UT-Martin I wouldn't have this job nor would I have been prepared for it," Summitt said. "I think just having the opportunity to have the folks from that area back here is very special for me."
She spoke to the UT-Martin team before the game.
Again, I wasn't there, but I really doubt Pat Summitt did anything unsportsmanlike in that game. I just think it is an unfair and, to some degree, misleading comparison.
http://utladyvols.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/120506aaa.html
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 07, 2006, 02:02:09 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 07, 2006, 02:02:09 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on December 07, 2006, 11:05:37 AM
I don't think this is great comparison. I certainly didn't see the game, but in reading the game recap, it sure doesn't sound to me like Tennessee was running the score up.
Parker scored 11 points in the first 12 minutes of the first half and then sat and watched until halftime. She added six points in the second half before going to the bench with most of the other starters with 10:15 remaining and the Lady Vols ahead by 41. (Candice Parker is Tennessee's All-American.)
When to pull starters out of a blowout is certainly up for debate, but to me, if you have your best player and your starters on the bench for the final 10 minutes or so, I think it is pretty clear you are not running the score up. In the Lincoln game, Wylie took 10 shots in the final 10:00 and was in the game until the final horn. It was so bad, Lincoln's A.D. had to issue a statement.
Also, UT-Martin is Pat Summitt's alma mater -- the basketball court is named after Summitt. Summitt scheduled the game as a way to thank the university.
"Obviously if it weren't for the folks at UT-Martin I wouldn't have this job nor would I have been prepared for it," Summitt said. "I think just having the opportunity to have the folks from that area back here is very special for me."
She spoke to the UT-Martin team before the game.
Again, I wasn't there, but I really doubt Pat Summitt did anything unsportsmanlike in that game. I just think it is an unfair and, to some degree, misleading comparison.
http://utladyvols.cstv.com/sports/w-baskbl/recaps/120506aaa.html
I think you've helped me make part of my point, Bob.
The final score doesn't seem to indicate that it was as egregious as Lincoln's example...but that's just it. 201 points sticks out to everyone. But given the proportionality, it's right in line with what UT did.
Wylie being in the game in the last nine and change - yeah, I don't think it's the smartest thing to do. Imagine if he got injured...now that would be a story.
Is it more outrageous that Summitt scheduled UT-Martin on her own and then wholeheartedly embarrassed them? I think that might stand out more than Lincoln's drubbing of OSU-Marion. At least UT-Martin probably got a nice payout...I have a hard time judging which example is more outlandish. Really, truly, I'm kinda tossed here.
Candace Parker (UT all-American) still played in the second half, after UT was up by 30. Same thoughts here. What if she got injured, when the Lady Vols were up by 35, 41, or more? That would be a huge story.
As I said before, I have feelings on both sides of the argument with Lincoln. But there is a legitimate statistical comparison to the UT women's example.
For those who disagree, consider that OSU-Marion STILL scored 78 points. I mean, that could be a record for the most points scored by a team with 6 players dressed. UT-Martin scores 29 all game. Because the numbers don't appear as gaudy, it doesn't "feel" as bad, but on proportion, I find that it is appropriate to compare the two.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 07, 2006, 02:05:34 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 07, 2006, 02:05:34 PM
Quote from: AndOne on December 07, 2006, 01:58:55 AM
Goodbye Wil. Take care, and good luck in life. As I can't give Karma points yet, I'll just close by returning the :-* you gave me along with the minus Karma at the top
of this post. I hope its as good for you as it was for me. :)
Goodbye my friend. It seems that you are angry with me because I don't agree with you and as a result you were trying to brow beat me into doing so. Well that hasn't happened, but it has been nice getting the best of you and your friends yesterday on the MAC Freedom board. It's amazing how one person can easily frustrate, mock and humiliate an ENTIRE BOARD for a few hours! I hope you return to your remedial classes and get help with your reading comprehension sometime soon because A MIND IS TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE :-* BYE, BYE....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2006, 02:08:10 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 07, 2006, 02:08:10 PM
UM that last post seems perilously close to a TOS violation. You might want to watch that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2006, 04:33:06 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2006, 04:33:06 AM
I'm wary of any game-to-game comparison between men's basketball and women's basketball. For several different reasons I think that the two sports are apples and oranges -- and I say that as a fan of both men's and women's basketball. I'm also wary of any game-to-game comparison that crosses divisional lines. Those are the two reasons why I felt Principia @ Wheaton (IL) would be a better basis for comparison with Lincoln vs. OSUM than would the D1 women's game between Tennessee and UT-Martin.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: irapthor on December 09, 2006, 12:06:42 AM
Post by: irapthor on December 09, 2006, 12:06:42 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 06, 2006, 08:45:42 PM
2. It's a great sign for women's hoops that you even noticed this. 15-20 years ago (perhaps even more recently) that was the NORM for mismatches (I recall one hs game in Michigan [unfortunately have NO idea where to go to check that memory! ;)] where the losing team scored ONE point)!
Here is a link to the high school game you referenced...I remember seeing it mentioned in Sports Illustrated, remembered the name of the losing school, and found this link.
http://espn.go.com/moresports/news/2002/1121/1464158.html
For those who like high school sports, the article makes an interesting reference to the National Federation of State High School Associations.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 09, 2006, 03:03:56 AM
Post by: sac on December 09, 2006, 03:03:56 AM
Before we go dragging the good people of Michigan through the mud, I should point out this game from boy's high school basketball on January 16, 1996
Jackson Northwest 7 Haslett 6...........5 Overtimes
In the ultimate in sportmanship both teams simply refused to shoot. All 13 points were accidents. :D j/k
Really the deal was Haslett was known as a run and gun kind of team routinely hitting 80-90 points...........Jackson Northwest being completely overmatched simply held on to the ball for minutes at a time..........no shot clock in Michigan HS basketball.
They had to wake the scorekeeper everytime someone did score. ;)
Jackson Northwest 7 Haslett 6...........5 Overtimes
In the ultimate in sportmanship both teams simply refused to shoot. All 13 points were accidents. :D j/k
Really the deal was Haslett was known as a run and gun kind of team routinely hitting 80-90 points...........Jackson Northwest being completely overmatched simply held on to the ball for minutes at a time..........no shot clock in Michigan HS basketball.
They had to wake the scorekeeper everytime someone did score. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on December 09, 2006, 10:08:29 AM
Post by: Lefty on December 09, 2006, 10:08:29 AM
Here is an article on the Lincoln game that was in the Baltimore Sun. I find some of the players comments very interesting.
By Kent Baker
Sun reporter
Originally published December 9, 2006
Lincoln (Pa.) University men's basketball coach Garfield Yuille and his players saw beforehand a recipe for a rout, but no one envisioned that the team would set a Division III scoring record against Ohio State-Marion last Saturday. The Lions won, 201-78.
"They were a backup team that wasn't really supposed to play," said Lions forward Dwight Dean (Cardinal Gibbons), referring to Ohio State-Marion. "They only had six players, and the biggest was about 6-2, maybe 6-3. We press every game no matter who we play. It just came together and we executed at will. Everybody [all 16 Lincoln players who dressed] got significant minutes."
Added senior guard Vincent Carter-Bey (Randallstown): "We executed off their mistakes, and just took it as a normal game. Our style is up and down, and we score a lot of points. Unfortunately, we scored so many."
Yuille, whose roster includes eight Baltimore-area products, said Ohio State-Marion was a late replacement for Wayne State, which had pulled out of the 25th annual Joe Manchin Classic at Salem International in Salem, W.Va.
After seeing the shortage of players and size on the opposing team, Yuille said he asked tournament officials whether the Lions could play the University of the District of Columbia - the fourth entrant in the event - instead but was denied. Ohio State-Marion, which was receiving a guarantee as a replacement, agreed to play.
Yuille has received a lot of negative feedback for running up the score in a game he said "seemed like a scrimmage. The score didn't mean anything. They were throwing the ball into our hands. I wish we had never played."
"We were just in a flow," Dean said. "Nobody really realized it was up to 200 points until the end of the game. And there wasn't like a big celebration afterward."
Ironically, the coach's emphasis entering the game was on defense, a facet of the Lions' game that had displeased him in a loss to Salem the previous night. And, only two of the regulars started. One starter, Thomas Hickson (Woodlawn), did not make the trip.
Sami Wylie made an NCAA-record 21 three-point shots and scored 69 points for the Lions (5-1), who are 10th in the Division III national poll. The 123-point margin was another NCAA record, and Lincoln also set division records for points in a half (104 in the second half), field goals attempted (141) and field goals made (79).
Carter-Bey, who played on a Randallstown state championship team in 2001, said Wylie "was just on and he came up with a crazy number. He didn't even know he had that much."
Afterward, Ohio State-Marion players went through the normal post-game handshakes.
"They just said, 'Nice game.' There wasn't no hard feelings," said Carter-Bey, a defensive specialist and one of the key components of Lincoln's "Chaos Crew," akin to Nolan Richardson's "40 Minutes of Hell" at Arkansas.
The Lions are averaging 115.3 points, and have topped 90 points in five of their first six games.
"They knew our style. There wasn't any disrespect," added Dean, who scored a career-high 33 points and grabbed 13 rebounds in 24 minutes, the most anyone from Lincoln played in the game. A transfer from South Carolina State, Dean is the team's second-leading scorer (23.2 ppg) and leading rebounder (7.8 rpg).
Yuille, whose assistant Brian Winfield is from Baltimore, coached Amateur Athletic Union ball in the city, hence his connection to the talent here. Lincoln is in southern Chester County, about 60 miles northeast of Baltimore. Yuille has a 51-13 record at Lincoln - the alma mater of Thurgood Marshall - in two-plus years.
The Lions return to action today at Ramapo (N.J.) after a week off for exams.
By Kent Baker
Sun reporter
Originally published December 9, 2006
Lincoln (Pa.) University men's basketball coach Garfield Yuille and his players saw beforehand a recipe for a rout, but no one envisioned that the team would set a Division III scoring record against Ohio State-Marion last Saturday. The Lions won, 201-78.
"They were a backup team that wasn't really supposed to play," said Lions forward Dwight Dean (Cardinal Gibbons), referring to Ohio State-Marion. "They only had six players, and the biggest was about 6-2, maybe 6-3. We press every game no matter who we play. It just came together and we executed at will. Everybody [all 16 Lincoln players who dressed] got significant minutes."
Added senior guard Vincent Carter-Bey (Randallstown): "We executed off their mistakes, and just took it as a normal game. Our style is up and down, and we score a lot of points. Unfortunately, we scored so many."
Yuille, whose roster includes eight Baltimore-area products, said Ohio State-Marion was a late replacement for Wayne State, which had pulled out of the 25th annual Joe Manchin Classic at Salem International in Salem, W.Va.
After seeing the shortage of players and size on the opposing team, Yuille said he asked tournament officials whether the Lions could play the University of the District of Columbia - the fourth entrant in the event - instead but was denied. Ohio State-Marion, which was receiving a guarantee as a replacement, agreed to play.
Yuille has received a lot of negative feedback for running up the score in a game he said "seemed like a scrimmage. The score didn't mean anything. They were throwing the ball into our hands. I wish we had never played."
"We were just in a flow," Dean said. "Nobody really realized it was up to 200 points until the end of the game. And there wasn't like a big celebration afterward."
Ironically, the coach's emphasis entering the game was on defense, a facet of the Lions' game that had displeased him in a loss to Salem the previous night. And, only two of the regulars started. One starter, Thomas Hickson (Woodlawn), did not make the trip.
Sami Wylie made an NCAA-record 21 three-point shots and scored 69 points for the Lions (5-1), who are 10th in the Division III national poll. The 123-point margin was another NCAA record, and Lincoln also set division records for points in a half (104 in the second half), field goals attempted (141) and field goals made (79).
Carter-Bey, who played on a Randallstown state championship team in 2001, said Wylie "was just on and he came up with a crazy number. He didn't even know he had that much."
Afterward, Ohio State-Marion players went through the normal post-game handshakes.
"They just said, 'Nice game.' There wasn't no hard feelings," said Carter-Bey, a defensive specialist and one of the key components of Lincoln's "Chaos Crew," akin to Nolan Richardson's "40 Minutes of Hell" at Arkansas.
The Lions are averaging 115.3 points, and have topped 90 points in five of their first six games.
"They knew our style. There wasn't any disrespect," added Dean, who scored a career-high 33 points and grabbed 13 rebounds in 24 minutes, the most anyone from Lincoln played in the game. A transfer from South Carolina State, Dean is the team's second-leading scorer (23.2 ppg) and leading rebounder (7.8 rpg).
Yuille, whose assistant Brian Winfield is from Baltimore, coached Amateur Athletic Union ball in the city, hence his connection to the talent here. Lincoln is in southern Chester County, about 60 miles northeast of Baltimore. Yuille has a 51-13 record at Lincoln - the alma mater of Thurgood Marshall - in two-plus years.
The Lions return to action today at Ramapo (N.J.) after a week off for exams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2006, 11:07:15 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2006, 11:07:15 AM
Quote from: Lefty on December 09, 2006, 10:08:29 AMThere have been very few comments, aside from Pat Cummings' post, about more sophisticated aspects of sportsmanship.
After seeing the shortage of players and size on the opposing team, Yuille said he asked tournament officials whether the Lions could play the University of the District of Columbia - the fourth entrant in the event - instead but was denied. Ohio State-Marion, which was receiving a guarantee as a replacement, agreed to play.
Yuille has received a lot of negative feedback for running up the score in a game he said "seemed like a scrimmage. The score didn't mean anything. They were throwing the ball into our hands. I wish we had never played."
...
Ironically, the coach's emphasis entering the game was on defense, a facet of the Lions' game that had displeased him in a loss to Salem the previous night. And, only two of the regulars started. One starter, Thomas Hickson (Woodlawn), did not make the trip.
...
Afterward, Ohio State-Marion players went through the normal post-game handshakes.
"They just said, 'Nice game.' There wasn't no hard feelings," said Carter-Bey, a defensive specialist and one of the key components of Lincoln's "Chaos Crew," akin to Nolan Richardson's "40 Minutes of Hell" at Arkansas.
...
"They knew our style. There wasn't any disrespect," added Dean, who scored a career-high 33 points and grabbed 13 rebounds in 24 minutes, the most anyone from Lincoln played in the game. A transfer from South Carolina State, Dean is the team's second-leading scorer (23.2 ppg) and leading rebounder (7.8 rpg).
...
What type of sportsmanship is it for Salem International to decline the request for Lincoln to play Univ of DC?
It is sportsmanship to perform at your best and not discredit the opponent. Do your best. Accept the appreciation of your teammates. Acknowledge the correct execution by your teammates that permitted you to achieive/excel, e.g., the timely outlet pass on the fastbreak, the correctly set screen or the downfield block in football. Do not taunt your opponent.
As others have suggested, there is no way to slow down this style of play. The chance to make accurate and correct passes to other teammates at the speed of the offense is just the nature of the offense. Looking for and hitting the "hot" player is another part of the game.
As more details have come from this, IMHO, Coach Yuille was in a "perfect storm" of "you cannot win" conditions.
As for ratings, ratings are just ephemeral. Why not just assume that you were "underrated". Nothing needs to be said. You have already proven it on the scoreboard. I really don't like the chant "overrated".
As for Principia scheduling at Wheaton, they have won 13, 3, 11, and 2 games in the last 4 seasons. It may not have been as preposterous for them to schedule that game. As noted, they lost by a bigger margin to D2 Northwestern Missouri State.
I really hope that OSU-Marion is able to build their program from this.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 09, 2006, 03:49:20 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 09, 2006, 03:49:20 PM
I agree with you Ralph. The quotes from the Lincoln players certainly do not indicate that they were gangster ball players!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2006, 04:29:42 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2006, 04:29:42 PM
Oxy Bob, it appears that we will agree to disagree. Coach Yuille appears to have exhausted all avenues not play the game and tried to maintain a dialogue with the other coaching staff.
I won't second-guess his strategic decisions, because I wasn't there.
Now...
let's address the issue that I mentioned earlier...
the attributes of sportsmanship that the "Safety School" chant by the fans demonstrates.
(For those who haven't heard the "Safety School" chant, it implies that the students of the Safety School were not admitted to the school that is doing the chanting, and had to settle for a school that is "inferior" in the opinion of the chanters and was farther down the list of choices.) ;)
I won't second-guess his strategic decisions, because I wasn't there.
Now...
let's address the issue that I mentioned earlier...
the attributes of sportsmanship that the "Safety School" chant by the fans demonstrates.
(For those who haven't heard the "Safety School" chant, it implies that the students of the Safety School were not admitted to the school that is doing the chanting, and had to settle for a school that is "inferior" in the opinion of the chanters and was farther down the list of choices.) ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2006, 05:23:00 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 11, 2006, 05:23:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 09, 2006, 11:07:15 AMAs for Principia scheduling at Wheaton, they have won 13, 3, 11, and 2 games in the last 4 seasons. It may not have been as preposterous for them to schedule that game.
If Wheaton coach Bill Harris scheduled this game two years in advance, your theory might have some credence. If he scheduled it last year, he would've known going in that he was scheduling it against a team whose record and scores indicated an epic ineptitude that could only be described as Caltechesque.
I still prefer to believe that this game was a late fill-in for Wheaton.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 11:09:15 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 11:09:15 AM
OSU-Marion strikes again: loses 138-27 to Georgetown (Ky).
http://www.georgetowncollegeathletics.com/teams/Mens_Basketball/Stats/06-07_stats/BoxScoreOSMvs.GC.htm
Where's the outrage!? Is that Kentucky gangster basketball!? Inquiring minds want to know...
http://www.georgetowncollegeathletics.com/teams/Mens_Basketball/Stats/06-07_stats/BoxScoreOSMvs.GC.htm
Where's the outrage!? Is that Kentucky gangster basketball!? Inquiring minds want to know...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2006, 11:22:17 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2006, 11:22:17 AM
I guess I missed the post where somebody called Lincoln "gangster" basketball, because that's just ignorant.
This is a tough one to call. Georgetown certainly could have done more to keep the score down. However, out of their twelve man roster, eight guys play more than 20 minutes a game on average. Their two best players played less than ten minutes in this game, but their two worst players played less than 15 each.
I think, like Lincoln, Georgetown could have done a little more to help out Marion.
This game won't get the same press because the winning total wasn't as high, but then again, why the heck is Marion even scheduling these games? Georgetown is a very good NAIA school.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
Guys, but for Hoops Fan, the silence (or lack of objection) to the OSU-Marion vs Georgetown (Ky.) score is DEAFENING! Or is this just tacit approval for Georgetown (Ky.) to put up such a lopsided score against OSU-Marion but not for Lincoln?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 01:34:41 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 01:34:41 PM
If you go post on an NAIA board it might be different, just a thought.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2006, 01:43:40 PM
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2006, 01:43:40 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:32:02 PM
Guys, but for Hoops Fan, the silence (or lack of objection) to the OSU-Marion vs Georgetown (Ky.) score is DEAFENING! Or is this just tacit approval for Georgetown (Ky.) to put up such a lopsided score against OSU-Marion but not for Lincoln?
Wilburt, if you can find me proof that Georgetown (KY) had its best player on the floor in the final minutes of the game throwing up 3's left and right, I will go find an NAIA message board, register, and make a post about Georgetown's lack of sportsmanship. But seeing as their leading scorer, Brian Silverhorn, played just 7 minutes in the game - and was 0-1 from the field - I am guessing that did not happen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:44:42 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:44:42 PM
True Pat, but the principle, as previously discussed on this board, is still the same! People have previously used high school scores and scores from a women's college game as possible analogies. What better one (analogy that is) than this game?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 01:46:52 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 01:46:52 PM
Read Q's post. The margin is the issue because Wylie was in the game and chucking three-balls for the last nine minutes.
If that happened with Georgetown I will join Q and post against it.
If that happened with Georgetown I will join Q and post against it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:48:32 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:48:32 PM
So the final score doesn't matter then? 1 guy can't chuck 3s (which is a lower % shot) at the end of a lopsided game but it's otherwise okay to run your regular offense (to get a higher % shot) at the end of a lopsided game?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2006, 02:32:54 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2006, 02:32:54 PM
It might have been more prudent not to schedule the game in the first place.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2006, 02:49:21 PM
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2006, 02:49:21 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 01:48:32 PM
So the final score doesn't matter then? I guy can't chuck 3s (which is a lower % shot) at the end of a lopsided game but it's otherwise okay to run your regular offense (to get a higher % shot) at the end of a lopsided game?
Wilburt, the reason Lincoln is getting so much grief is because of who was shooting all those 3's at the end of the blowout -- their All-American. That is the one fact that looks the worst for your team. We can all debate the pressing vs taking the press of thing and if they should have run the clock down more, shot less, etc...but the fact that Lincoln's best player was in the game up 100-whatever points just doesn't look good at all. It is hard to defend that and I haven't heard anyone from Lincoln even try to defend it.
Hoops Fan, if you read this thread you will note that Lincoln had no control over playing OSU-Marion - they were a late substitution in a tournament run by another school.
Oh and Wilburt, you might want to just let this topic die. Not sure why you want to keep it going.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 02:51:36 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 11, 2006, 02:51:36 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on December 11, 2006, 02:49:21 PM
Oh and Wilburt, you might want to just let this topic die. Not sure why you want to keep it going.
You are correct Titan Q...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2006, 02:53:57 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 11, 2006, 02:53:57 PM
Q,
First, Wilburt isn't a Lincoln man. He's a Fisk supporter.
Second, I was referring to Gerogetown. Why would they schedule Marion?
Lastly, I also looked at Marion's schedule. They seem to be pretty competitive in that Ohio state school sattelite campus league they're in. Maybe the coach wanted to get trashed in a couple of games so these guys can see how far they have to go?
I do agree with you. It was who was taking the shots at the end of the game, not the shots being taken that were the error. I've said it a bunch of times. I'm for anything a coach wants to do at the end of a blowout so long as its the last five guys on the bench who are doing it.
First, Wilburt isn't a Lincoln man. He's a Fisk supporter.
Second, I was referring to Gerogetown. Why would they schedule Marion?
Lastly, I also looked at Marion's schedule. They seem to be pretty competitive in that Ohio state school sattelite campus league they're in. Maybe the coach wanted to get trashed in a couple of games so these guys can see how far they have to go?
I do agree with you. It was who was taking the shots at the end of the game, not the shots being taken that were the error. I've said it a bunch of times. I'm for anything a coach wants to do at the end of a blowout so long as its the last five guys on the bench who are doing it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 08:47:08 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 08:47:08 PM
I think I know why this topic won't die.
I firmly believe Lincoln is being unfairly singled-out, perhaps even discriminated against, because of their 201 points. If I am from Lincoln, I'd think it too. Especially when I see other examples out there since then, and no one really talking about those.
Sami Wylie played 24 minutes - he chucked threes late. As I've previously mentioned, Tennessee's all-American played 20 minutes in their statistically similar win.
Lincoln gets singled out because they scored 201 points. That's attention-grabbing. Georgetown Ky.'s win is crazy. But 135 points or so is not the headline, it's the 111 point margin of victory, but most people won't even catch it because 135 points doesn't stick out when Grinnell and Emory & Henry and others toss a bunch out there.
DOES IT MATTER what 24 minutes Sami Wylie played? This guy is 28 with 4 kids. He's getting a degree and playing basketball. The way OSU-Marion approached this game, with reckless abandon as can be inferred from their various comments, I am really not bothered by the result.
I believe there are people dissing Lincoln because they don't play the way everyone else thinks they should. Upon discussing this with a friend who played D3, he said to me..."It would bother me more if the team we were playing stopped playing. That would be the ultimate slap in the face. The least a team could do is respect us to play the game to the end as if it were the beginning. If that is with 5 guys who don't ever play, and they play their hearts out, so be it. If that was with the starters, so be it. But don't quit on me because you know my team isn't as good as yours. If I am there to play the game, and I'm playing, I'd expect you to do it as well."
I thought it was a well-founded assessment.
I firmly believe Lincoln is being unfairly singled-out, perhaps even discriminated against, because of their 201 points. If I am from Lincoln, I'd think it too. Especially when I see other examples out there since then, and no one really talking about those.
Sami Wylie played 24 minutes - he chucked threes late. As I've previously mentioned, Tennessee's all-American played 20 minutes in their statistically similar win.
Lincoln gets singled out because they scored 201 points. That's attention-grabbing. Georgetown Ky.'s win is crazy. But 135 points or so is not the headline, it's the 111 point margin of victory, but most people won't even catch it because 135 points doesn't stick out when Grinnell and Emory & Henry and others toss a bunch out there.
DOES IT MATTER what 24 minutes Sami Wylie played? This guy is 28 with 4 kids. He's getting a degree and playing basketball. The way OSU-Marion approached this game, with reckless abandon as can be inferred from their various comments, I am really not bothered by the result.
I believe there are people dissing Lincoln because they don't play the way everyone else thinks they should. Upon discussing this with a friend who played D3, he said to me..."It would bother me more if the team we were playing stopped playing. That would be the ultimate slap in the face. The least a team could do is respect us to play the game to the end as if it were the beginning. If that is with 5 guys who don't ever play, and they play their hearts out, so be it. If that was with the starters, so be it. But don't quit on me because you know my team isn't as good as yours. If I am there to play the game, and I'm playing, I'd expect you to do it as well."
I thought it was a well-founded assessment.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 08:49:47 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 08:47:08 PM
DOES IT MATTER what 24 minutes Sami Wylie played?
YES. IT DOES.
First, of all, 24 minutes is probably high for a team in this kind of game. But secondly, playing the entire final 9 minutes of the game is just heinous. And playing in the way the stats prove he did is also heinous.
That is why it won't die. People somehow feel it's acceptable to have a starter, an All-American candidate in the game at the end when up by 100 points. Somewhere sane people should know where the line is and that it was crossed here.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 11, 2006, 09:21:36 PM
Post by: sac on December 11, 2006, 09:21:36 PM
Georgetown only had to score 63 more points to reach Lincoln's level.
Think about that.
If we've learned anything its that the Ohio State University-extension campus league is not good.........not good at all. ;)
Think about that.
If we've learned anything its that the Ohio State University-extension campus league is not good.........not good at all. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2006, 09:22:31 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2006, 09:22:31 PM
I swore to myself that I would NOT rejoin this fiasco, but Pat, right on!
If Lincoln scored 201 with their 5-7 'worst' players going the entire second half, so be it (I'd still be at least mildly critical of not slowing it down a bit and calling off the full-court press). But their players with the least minutes going in BARELY played - if not now, when?
While I think Coach Yuille was guilty of a GROSS violation of sportsmanship, I also think he was guilty of a GROSS error in coaching (unless it was intentional). If those guys at the end of the bench can't get into even this game (when, I presume, they TRY as hard as anyone), why the heck should they ever want to play for you again?! Were you deliberately trying to 'run-off' half your team?
It would not surprise me if there was a mass exodus of 'end-of-the-bench' players from Lincoln at the end of the year (if not sooner).
If Lincoln scored 201 with their 5-7 'worst' players going the entire second half, so be it (I'd still be at least mildly critical of not slowing it down a bit and calling off the full-court press). But their players with the least minutes going in BARELY played - if not now, when?
While I think Coach Yuille was guilty of a GROSS violation of sportsmanship, I also think he was guilty of a GROSS error in coaching (unless it was intentional). If those guys at the end of the bench can't get into even this game (when, I presume, they TRY as hard as anyone), why the heck should they ever want to play for you again?! Were you deliberately trying to 'run-off' half your team?
It would not surprise me if there was a mass exodus of 'end-of-the-bench' players from Lincoln at the end of the year (if not sooner).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 09:33:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 09:33:36 PM
Why would Redlands score 201 on Caltech when it hasn't before? They've had plenty of chances.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 09:38:04 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 09:38:04 PM
Quote from: sac on December 11, 2006, 09:21:36 PM
Georgetown only had to score 63 more points to reach Lincoln's level.
Think about that.
If we've learned anything its that the Ohio State University-extension campus league is not good.........not good at all. ;)
Yeah, but Georgetown kept Marion to just 27 points while scoring 83% of the points in the game. Lincoln allowed 78 points to Marion in the win, the Lions scored 72% of the points in the their win.
Did not anyone learn about the powers of quantification in their respective D3 institutions?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2006, 09:39:51 PM
Post by: Titan Q on December 11, 2006, 09:39:51 PM
Quote from: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 08:47:08 PM
I think I know why this topic won't die.
I firmly believe Lincoln is being unfairly singled-out, perhaps even discriminated against, because of their 201 points. If I am from Lincoln, I'd think it too. Especially when I see other examples out there since then, and no one really talking about those.
Sami Wylie played 24 minutes - he chucked threes late. As I've previously mentioned, Tennessee's all-American played 20 minutes in their statistically similar win.
Lincoln gets singled out because they scored 201 points. That's attention-grabbing. Georgetown Ky.'s win is crazy. But 135 points or so is not the headline, it's the 111 point margin of victory, but most people won't even catch it because 135 points doesn't stick out when Grinnell and Emory & Henry and others toss a bunch out there.
DOES IT MATTER what 24 minutes Sami Wylie played? This guy is 28 with 4 kids. He's getting a degree and playing basketball. The way OSU-Marion approached this game, with reckless abandon as can be inferred from their various comments, I am really not bothered by the result.
I believe there are people dissing Lincoln because they don't play the way everyone else thinks they should. Upon discussing this with a friend who played D3, he said to me..."It would bother me more if the team we were playing stopped playing. That would be the ultimate slap in the face. The least a team could do is respect us to play the game to the end as if it were the beginning. If that is with 5 guys who don't ever play, and they play their hearts out, so be it. If that was with the starters, so be it. But don't quit on me because you know my team isn't as good as yours. If I am there to play the game, and I'm playing, I'd expect you to do it as well."
I thought it was a well-founded assessment.
I can only speak for myself, but the reason I've been critical of Lincoln has nothing to do with the 201 points...or the margin of victory. My beef simply comes down to the fact that they had their best player in at the end of a game they were up a ridiculous margin. As far as I know, the Lady Vols didn't do that in their recent blowout win, and it does not appear to me that Georgetown (KY) did it vs OSU-Marion.
It's really sportsmanship 101 and the one unwritten rule that almost every coach abides by -- you just don't play your best players late in a game when you are up a crazy amount.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 09:54:48 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 09:54:48 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 08:49:47 PMQuote from: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 08:47:08 PM
DOES IT MATTER what 24 minutes Sami Wylie played?
YES. IT DOES.
First, of all, 24 minutes is probably high for a team in this kind of game. But secondly, playing the entire final 9 minutes of the game is just heinous. And playing in the way the stats prove he did is also heinous.
That is why it won't die. People somehow feel it's acceptable to have a starter, an All-American candidate in the game at the end when up by 100 points. Somewhere sane people should know where the line is and that it was crossed here.
Those "people" include me. So - I'm insane, I suppose.
Wylie plays 15 of the first 31 minutes of the game. Then the last 9. The blowout was not entirely Wylie's. If he scores 0 points, Lincoln still wins by more than 60. At that point, how much does it matter whether he's scoring or not? 60 points is more palatable than 100+? OSU-M is clearly an inexperienced basketball team, barely competitive against the majority of organized post-secondary institutions. Their wins have come on quite a different level than D2 and D3. Their game against Wittenberg's JV team later this year will be one to watch.
For the "Sportsmanship 101" argument...I ask this. Is there not some sign of sportsmanship that Yuille did NOT play Wylie for 16 of the first 31 minutes? If no one gets my argument, so be it - maybe I just think differently and I won't keep trying to explain my opinion.
There will always be dramatically overmatched basketball teams playing games where they will get sloshed. Everyone knows it going in. This was one of them. It was going to be this way no matter what. UDC proved it the night before. Georgetown proved it again.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2006, 10:29:12 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2006, 10:29:12 PM
patcummings,
I posted earlier wondering if this was a COACHING error - do you think this was a deliberate decision by Coach Yuille to drive off his bench? If the lower-minute guys couldn't get playing time in THIS game, they obviously never will. I'd be surprised if he doesn't lose MOST of his bench to transfers - was that his plan?
WHEN the stars are in in a blow-out is OBVIOUSLY relevant - how can you not grasp that?! If the bottom 5 guys make it to 201 points, it is what it is (though I might still mildly criticize that they didn't slow it down or take off the press), if an All-American scores 36 of the final 56 points, it is reprehensible. [And in my (totally irrelevant) opinion, his school record doesn't count.]
I posted earlier wondering if this was a COACHING error - do you think this was a deliberate decision by Coach Yuille to drive off his bench? If the lower-minute guys couldn't get playing time in THIS game, they obviously never will. I'd be surprised if he doesn't lose MOST of his bench to transfers - was that his plan?
WHEN the stars are in in a blow-out is OBVIOUSLY relevant - how can you not grasp that?! If the bottom 5 guys make it to 201 points, it is what it is (though I might still mildly criticize that they didn't slow it down or take off the press), if an All-American scores 36 of the final 56 points, it is reprehensible. [And in my (totally irrelevant) opinion, his school record doesn't count.]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 10:47:21 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 10:47:21 PM
Quote from: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 09:54:48 PM
Those "people" include me. So - I'm insane, I suppose.
I'm aware of your insanity on this topic. You've made it quite clear. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 10:50:55 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 11, 2006, 10:50:55 PM
Quote from: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 09:54:48 PM
60 points is more palatable than 100+?
I think so.
Quote from: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 09:54:48 PM
For the "Sportsmanship 101" argument...I ask this. Is there not some sign of sportsmanship that Yuille did NOT play Wylie for 16 of the first 31 minutes?
Only if the game is 31 minutes long. The final nine minutes destroys anything Lincoln might have done in the first 31.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 10:51:41 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 10:51:41 PM
Ok...here's more to my school of thought.
If I was the coach, I would not have played Wylie, or most of the starters, as they were played.
How can I not grasp when the starters are in as relevant? They would have had the same impact no matter when it was in the game. Without being the coach of Lincoln, I can't tell you why Yuille played Wylie for 24 minutes, but no matter what 24 minutes he played, his impact would have been the same. Play him for the entire first half, none of the second half, and I wonder if people would ask the same questions with just four minutes less play.
I'm just not bothered by what has taken place here. Say I'm "unsportsmanlike" if you will...but when all the factors are taken into account, especially Marion's side of the equation (saying they weren't going to play the night before, showing up 10-15 minutes before scheduled tip, etc)...I just am not insensed as many other are.
If I was the coach, I would not have played Wylie, or most of the starters, as they were played.
How can I not grasp when the starters are in as relevant? They would have had the same impact no matter when it was in the game. Without being the coach of Lincoln, I can't tell you why Yuille played Wylie for 24 minutes, but no matter what 24 minutes he played, his impact would have been the same. Play him for the entire first half, none of the second half, and I wonder if people would ask the same questions with just four minutes less play.
I'm just not bothered by what has taken place here. Say I'm "unsportsmanlike" if you will...but when all the factors are taken into account, especially Marion's side of the equation (saying they weren't going to play the night before, showing up 10-15 minutes before scheduled tip, etc)...I just am not insensed as many other are.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2006, 11:44:32 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 11, 2006, 11:44:32 PM
patcummings,
Leaving aside the sportsmanship, what about Lincoln's bench? If the end-of-the-bench guys didn't play much in this one, they obviously never will. Was this Coach Yuille's message to nearly half his team: tata guy's, don't let the door hit you on the way out! :P
For HIS TEAM'S sake, as well as sportsmanship, the entire second half should have been played by his 5-7 'worst' players. That he didn't do that suggests to me that he is trying to 'drive-off' quite a few players.
Leaving aside the sportsmanship, what about Lincoln's bench? If the end-of-the-bench guys didn't play much in this one, they obviously never will. Was this Coach Yuille's message to nearly half his team: tata guy's, don't let the door hit you on the way out! :P
For HIS TEAM'S sake, as well as sportsmanship, the entire second half should have been played by his 5-7 'worst' players. That he didn't do that suggests to me that he is trying to 'drive-off' quite a few players.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 12, 2006, 03:55:57 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 12, 2006, 03:55:57 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 11, 2006, 09:30:09 PMOh, and another thing. No matter how you defend, explain, justify or excuse what Lincoln did, it was classless and unsporting for them to run up 201 points on OSU-M. That's why Lincoln is getting heat.
Not true. Lincoln's getting heat because the Lions' All-American, Sami Wylie, was on the floor at the end of the game, chucking trey attempts at a breakneck pace. Look at the arguments being made against Lincoln by Q, Pat Coleman, and Mr. Ypsi. They're all saying the same thing: It's not the total points scored by Lincoln that's objectionable, it's Wylie's presence on the floor at the end of the game and what he was doing in a transparent attempt to set some records that is worthy of condemnation.
And I agree with them. It's not the 201 points that make Lincoln look bad in my eyes, because even if you play the end of your bench for almost the entire game against an intramural-level opponent and do as much as you can to take the air out of the basketball and hold down the score without openly insulting the opposition in doing so -- steps that Wheaton took in its win against Principia the other night -- you're still going to rack up a humongous number on the scoreboard. That's just the way basketball is; because of the shot clock, and because you can't very well tell your scrubs at the end of the bench not to play hard, sheer momentum is going to propel even the most merciful of opponents to a massive score if the opponent is bad enough.
The Wylie thing, though? That's just plain inexcusable on Coach Yuille's part.
As I said a few days ago, I fully realize that a box score doesn't tell the whole story. I'd dearly love to see Coach Yuille's explanation as to why he didn't play the end of his bench most of the game, and why Wylie was in at the end throwing up bombs as if his life depended upon it. So far I haven't seen him address those concerns anywhere in the press. As much as I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, without an explanation he's damned by the evidence.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 12, 2006, 04:04:47 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 12, 2006, 04:04:47 AM
QuoteWylie said his coach's pre-game talk inspired the performance.
"He like really got on us for the loss and I don't like it when my coaches get on me. So I had to take it out on the team that we were playing," Wylie said.
Yuille said the reality of the performance by Wylie and his team started to set in later in the game. He noticed they'd piled up more than 180 points when he turned to an assistant and started talking about Wylie breaking the record for 3-pointers. "I said this is crazy."
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/basketball/ncaa/12/02/DIII.scoring.ap/index.html
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 09:07:42 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 09:07:42 AM
Honestly, at this point, it's become clear that Yuille created this whole issue by accident. Honestly, I would prefer to see the bench guys in for 30+ minutes (especially since Marion's only bench player is 44 years old); that's one side of the argument.
But look at the other side? If he was really intending to be a jerk he would have played Wylie 35 minutes and let him score 100. Somewhere in the heat of the moment he got caught up and didn't realize the repercussions.
It's very true what everyone is saying. If this game had been 183-87, there might have been a little talk, but no one would have said anything.
What I've learned from this whole debate is that there are two kinds of people out there. People who feel the bench should play the most minutes in a blowout and the people who feel like the coach can do what he or she wants in that situation. It's really not about Lincoln at this point. They've just provided us with a concrete example over which to haggle. If anyone wants to continue to discuss this, you might as well leave Lincoln out of it and just use generalities, because that's where we've descended to anyway.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 12, 2006, 09:29:22 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 12, 2006, 09:29:22 AM
Well stated Hoops Fan!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 09:45:18 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 09:45:18 AM
Maybe I can reclaim some of my karma. I lost 14 points over this whole thing. Rediculous!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 09:57:48 AM
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 09:57:48 AM
Quote from: patcummings on December 11, 2006, 10:51:41 PM
How can I not grasp when the starters are in as relevant? They would have had the same impact no matter when it was in the game. Without being the coach of Lincoln, I can't tell you why Yuille played Wylie for 24 minutes, but no matter what 24 minutes he played, his impact would have been the same.
This is simply NOT true. OSU-M had SIX players and Lincoln pressed the whole game with a full squad. You think OSU-M even had the gas to try to defend Wylie those last nine minutes - even if they wanted to? (I'm sure, by that point, they just wanted the game to end.) I saw a couple of the clips and it looked like OSU-M was just playing "token" defense (winded, throwing up one hand to attempt to guard someone from several feet away) and there was a FRESH (since he had been sitting so long) Wylie taking what amounted to uncontested three-pointers.
If Lincoln had started their best five guys and played their top eight the whole first half and put up 120+ in the first half and then played the end of their bench the whole second half, so be it. Obviously, OSU-M stinks, but at least for some of the first half they had SOME energy. (I saw a similar situation in women's soccer this year. Starters for a nationally-ranked team played the entire first half and scored seven goals against a team with about 14 regular players. Second half it was all substitutes and they scored twice.)
You can defend Lincoln's "right" to play whoever they want in the game whenever they want in the game, but to say with certainty that WHEN the starters play against a team with SIX players makes no difference in terms of impact on the game, is just inaccurate.
Not to mention the point I brought up before - what if Wylie had twisted an ankle in the those last nine minutes? What if an OSU-M kid just got angry about the whole thing and fouled him hard? Even beyond the sportsmanship thing, if I'm Yuille, I am not trotting my Most Valuable Player out there for the final nine minutes in what couldn't even be described as a game any more just to try to break some records.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 12, 2006, 11:02:28 AM
Post by: patcummings on December 12, 2006, 11:02:28 AM
I wholeheartedly agree with you about the potential for injury...
Did OSU-M have the gas to play Lincoln-style basketball for the first 20 minutes anyway? No.
Does it make it right? I suppose not.
I think one thing we will all agree on is this...Yuille and Wylie and others have told so many different stories about this game, and I'd love to get more of their take, unadulterated, on why they did what they did so all this conjecture could go away.
Then again, what version would we get?
I think, at this point, the AD is putting the muzzle on them from continuing to talk about it.
Did OSU-M have the gas to play Lincoln-style basketball for the first 20 minutes anyway? No.
Does it make it right? I suppose not.
I think one thing we will all agree on is this...Yuille and Wylie and others have told so many different stories about this game, and I'd love to get more of their take, unadulterated, on why they did what they did so all this conjecture could go away.
Then again, what version would we get?
I think, at this point, the AD is putting the muzzle on them from continuing to talk about it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 12, 2006, 03:45:31 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 12, 2006, 03:45:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 12, 2006, 09:45:18 AM
Maybe I can reclaim some of my karma. I lost 14 points over this whole thing. Rediculous!
I echo your sentiments. I lost 20+ points over this thing as well. But I know who smited me!
BTW, well stated Pat Cummings!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 03:47:34 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 03:47:34 PM
By the way Gregg Easterbrook lit into Lincoln and Yuille today in his ESPN.com column and he's a fellow at the Brookings Institute.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 04:16:13 PM
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 04:16:13 PM
From The NY Times article linked in Easterbrook's column:
Good to see OSU-Marion might get something positive from this whole thing
:)
Quote
An unexpected benefit of the game has been publicity for the Ohio State-Marion program. Sisler said he had received about 15 e-mail messages from high school players wanting to know more.
"The national publicity we're getting is tremendous," he said. "Kids say, 'Hey, there's a team that needs some players.' "
Good to see OSU-Marion might get something positive from this whole thing
:)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 04:17:27 PM
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 04:17:27 PM
From The NY Times article linked in Easterbrook's column:
Good to see OSU-Marion might get something positive from this whole thing
:)
I don't know anything his coaching abilities, but it seems Mark Sisler is one easy-going, glass half-full type of guy!
Quote
An unexpected benefit of the game has been publicity for the Ohio State-Marion program. Sisler said he had received about 15 e-mail messages from high school players wanting to know more.
"The national publicity we're getting is tremendous," he said. "Kids say, 'Hey, there's a team that needs some players.' "
Good to see OSU-Marion might get something positive from this whole thing
:)
I don't know anything his coaching abilities, but it seems Mark Sisler is one easy-going, glass half-full type of guy!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 05:36:59 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 12, 2006, 05:36:59 PM
He does actually play for the team. It's nice to see 44 year old Juniors out there coaching and serving as Atheltic Directors while playing college ball. It sort of sets the bar higher for everyone else.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 05:53:07 PM
Post by: sunny on December 12, 2006, 05:53:07 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 12, 2006, 05:36:59 PM
He does actually play for the team. It's nice to see 44 year old Juniors out there coaching and serving as Atheltic Directors while playing college ball. It sort of sets the bar higher for everyone else.
Yes, he does, in fact, take classes - I saw that in the NYT article, which was the most-informed non-D3Hoops.com, national-level media report I've seen about the game.
It pained me every time I heard the game referred to as a "Division III game." You think for one second if an ACC team beat up on a Division III team the news reports wouldn't ALL include a disclaimer stating that they were playing a Division III squad? I'd hate for people to think that this was a game between two Division III schools ...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 12, 2006, 07:11:21 PM
Post by: patcummings on December 12, 2006, 07:11:21 PM
Easterbrook, while occasionally entertaining, also has frequently stated that Mount Union is unsportsmanlike when piling on to highly overmatched opponents. Little does he know about HOW sportsmanlike the Purple Raiders are.
Easterbrook lost his ESPN column several years ago for racist remarks. I filter everything he says with more than a grain of salt.
Easterbrook lost his ESPN column several years ago for racist remarks. I filter everything he says with more than a grain of salt.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 13, 2006, 01:16:09 AM
Post by: smedindy on December 13, 2006, 01:16:09 AM
Pat -
Those remarks were taken out of context, and he's back on ESPN. Actually, his whipping boy NOW is Pittsburg State, who does seem to pile on with no remorse.
He's quite erudite and a refreshing change from some of the mediots out htere.
Those remarks were taken out of context, and he's back on ESPN. Actually, his whipping boy NOW is Pittsburg State, who does seem to pile on with no remorse.
He's quite erudite and a refreshing change from some of the mediots out htere.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2006, 09:09:11 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 13, 2006, 09:09:11 AM
Quote from: sunny on December 12, 2006, 05:53:07 PMQuote from: Hoops Fan on December 12, 2006, 05:36:59 PM
He does actually play for the team. It's nice to see 44 year old Juniors out there coaching and serving as Atheltic Directors while playing college ball. It sort of sets the bar higher for everyone else.
Yes, he does, in fact, take classes - I saw that in the NYT article, which was the most-informed non-D3Hoops.com, national-level media report I've seen about the game.
It pained me every time I heard the game referred to as a "Division III game." You think for one second if an ACC team beat up on a Division III team the news reports wouldn't ALL include a disclaimer stating that they were playing a Division III squad? I'd hate for people to think that this was a game between two Division III schools ...
That's a very good point. Time to mobilize our minions and start a barrage of letters to the editor at every major news outlet... now where did I leave those minions?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
I know there are some people on this forum that just want this topic to go away but I ran across this article in the Altoona Mirror. I am sure this it the type of press Lincoln is getting with all of the schools they are playing.
Small school Lincoln shows how little it cares about sportsmanship
By Cory Giger, cgiger@altoonamirror.com
The team and coach responsible for one of the year's most disappointing displays of sportsmanship will be in town tonight.
Lincoln University of Pennsylvania, which 12 days ago ran up an unheard of score of 201-78 against a vastly inferior opponent, will take on Penn State Altoona at 7 p.m. at the Adler Gym.
The Lincoln team made national news with its disgraceful blowout, with highlights appearing on ''SportsCenter'' and coach Garfield Yuille trying to explain why it happened on ESPN2's ''Cold Pizza.''
It happened because some people in sports care little about sportsmanship.
The final score — the most lopsided in college basketball history — is interesting enough, but the details from that game are downright fascinating.
Lincoln, ranked 18th in the latest NCAA Division III poll, was playing at a tournament in Salem, W.Va. One of the teams, Division II Wayne State, had to pull out of the event, so Ohio State-Marion was added as a late replacement.
Ohio State-Marion isn't affiliated with any NCAA divisions and played only club basketball the past six years. The team brought just six players to the tournament, including five freshmen. The sixth player was 44-year-old Mark Sisler, the school's athletic director and also head coach of the men's basketball and women's volleyball teams.
Sisler still has college eligibility and is a decent player, so he serves as a reserve on the basketball team.
Ohio State-Marion was crushed in its first-round game, 133-53, by the University of District Columbia. Sisler's club entered the loser's bracket and had one more game to play, against a Lincoln team that lost its opener to host Salem International, 90-79.
Four Ohio State-Marion players shared a hotel room that Friday night. Coach Sisler and his son, Bryant, a starter on the squad, slept in the team van.
For their trouble, the Scarlet Wave showed up at the gym the next day and were throttled by Lincoln. Not many people knew of the 201-78 final at the time since only about 31 folks were in the stands, but that all changed once the score hit the national news.
Lincoln ran its intense full-court press the entire 40 minutes, forced 62 turnovers and set five Division III records, including points in a game. (Division II Troy set the NCAA all-division points record in a 258-141 win over DeVry in 1992).
Lincoln senior guard Sami Wylie erupted for 69 points, sinking an NCAA record 21 3-pointers. Wylie is 28 and has four children, and Yuille reportedly wanted his player to make a big splash in hopes of increasing his chances to play professionally.
Yuille did not return several messages left by the Mirror, but he has spent much of the past two weeks defending himself against critics.
''I'm a new coach trying to come in and do bigger things, and I feel everything is tarnished,'' the third-year coach told the New York Times.
Yuille claims he's not the unsportsmanlike monster some people have made him out to be, and that he viewed the game more like a scrimmage and not a real contest.
But it was a real game, coach, and running up the score like that is disgraceful.
Lincoln led 97-44 at the half and, get this, had an incredible 48-0 run at one point. The margin reached 100 (156-55) with 8:35 to go.
Instead of being a good sport and calling off the dogs, Yuille had his players continue to press. The coach did substitute frequently, and all 16 of his players saw action. Wylie played only 24 minutes, chucking up 41 3-pointers, or almost two per minute.
Lincoln attempted 60 3-pointers and took a shot from the field every 17 seconds. Yuille has claimed he wasn't trying to reach 200 points. He still had Wylie in the game at the end, however, and the team scored 13 points over the final 2:22 to top 200.
Why does a basketball team that's up 110 points need to score 13 more in the final two minutes?
Yuille can claim all he wants he wasn't running up the score, but who's he kidding? Even the school's athletic director deemed the display unacceptable and issued an apology.
''Lincoln University of Pennsylvania has a long and proud tradition of excellence in athletic competition and firmly embraces the principle of good sportsmanship,'' AD Alfonso Scandrett Jr. said in a statement. ''Accordingly, it is with much regret [to see] the demonstration in opposition to that principle by the men's basketball coaching staff in [the] game against Ohio State University-Marion. It was an anomaly.''
A Lincoln University spokesman told the Mirror that Yuille is a good guy who has a lot of character. Perhaps he is, but that wasn't on display in the game that could haunt the coach for the rest of his career.
One bit of good has come out of all this, from the Ohio State-Marion side.
Sisler, the 44-year-old coach who scored 24 points in the blowout, sent Yuille an e-mail saying there were no hard feelings. He also said, ''the national publicity we're getting is tremendous'' and that more kids now are interested in playing for Ohio State-Marion.
From the Penn State Altoona perspective, tonight's game involves perhaps the most high-profile team ever to visit Adler Gym. The Lions might not be much of a match for Lincoln on the court, but at least their integrity isn't in question.
Small school Lincoln shows how little it cares about sportsmanship
By Cory Giger, cgiger@altoonamirror.com
The team and coach responsible for one of the year's most disappointing displays of sportsmanship will be in town tonight.
Lincoln University of Pennsylvania, which 12 days ago ran up an unheard of score of 201-78 against a vastly inferior opponent, will take on Penn State Altoona at 7 p.m. at the Adler Gym.
The Lincoln team made national news with its disgraceful blowout, with highlights appearing on ''SportsCenter'' and coach Garfield Yuille trying to explain why it happened on ESPN2's ''Cold Pizza.''
It happened because some people in sports care little about sportsmanship.
The final score — the most lopsided in college basketball history — is interesting enough, but the details from that game are downright fascinating.
Lincoln, ranked 18th in the latest NCAA Division III poll, was playing at a tournament in Salem, W.Va. One of the teams, Division II Wayne State, had to pull out of the event, so Ohio State-Marion was added as a late replacement.
Ohio State-Marion isn't affiliated with any NCAA divisions and played only club basketball the past six years. The team brought just six players to the tournament, including five freshmen. The sixth player was 44-year-old Mark Sisler, the school's athletic director and also head coach of the men's basketball and women's volleyball teams.
Sisler still has college eligibility and is a decent player, so he serves as a reserve on the basketball team.
Ohio State-Marion was crushed in its first-round game, 133-53, by the University of District Columbia. Sisler's club entered the loser's bracket and had one more game to play, against a Lincoln team that lost its opener to host Salem International, 90-79.
Four Ohio State-Marion players shared a hotel room that Friday night. Coach Sisler and his son, Bryant, a starter on the squad, slept in the team van.
For their trouble, the Scarlet Wave showed up at the gym the next day and were throttled by Lincoln. Not many people knew of the 201-78 final at the time since only about 31 folks were in the stands, but that all changed once the score hit the national news.
Lincoln ran its intense full-court press the entire 40 minutes, forced 62 turnovers and set five Division III records, including points in a game. (Division II Troy set the NCAA all-division points record in a 258-141 win over DeVry in 1992).
Lincoln senior guard Sami Wylie erupted for 69 points, sinking an NCAA record 21 3-pointers. Wylie is 28 and has four children, and Yuille reportedly wanted his player to make a big splash in hopes of increasing his chances to play professionally.
Yuille did not return several messages left by the Mirror, but he has spent much of the past two weeks defending himself against critics.
''I'm a new coach trying to come in and do bigger things, and I feel everything is tarnished,'' the third-year coach told the New York Times.
Yuille claims he's not the unsportsmanlike monster some people have made him out to be, and that he viewed the game more like a scrimmage and not a real contest.
But it was a real game, coach, and running up the score like that is disgraceful.
Lincoln led 97-44 at the half and, get this, had an incredible 48-0 run at one point. The margin reached 100 (156-55) with 8:35 to go.
Instead of being a good sport and calling off the dogs, Yuille had his players continue to press. The coach did substitute frequently, and all 16 of his players saw action. Wylie played only 24 minutes, chucking up 41 3-pointers, or almost two per minute.
Lincoln attempted 60 3-pointers and took a shot from the field every 17 seconds. Yuille has claimed he wasn't trying to reach 200 points. He still had Wylie in the game at the end, however, and the team scored 13 points over the final 2:22 to top 200.
Why does a basketball team that's up 110 points need to score 13 more in the final two minutes?
Yuille can claim all he wants he wasn't running up the score, but who's he kidding? Even the school's athletic director deemed the display unacceptable and issued an apology.
''Lincoln University of Pennsylvania has a long and proud tradition of excellence in athletic competition and firmly embraces the principle of good sportsmanship,'' AD Alfonso Scandrett Jr. said in a statement. ''Accordingly, it is with much regret [to see] the demonstration in opposition to that principle by the men's basketball coaching staff in [the] game against Ohio State University-Marion. It was an anomaly.''
A Lincoln University spokesman told the Mirror that Yuille is a good guy who has a lot of character. Perhaps he is, but that wasn't on display in the game that could haunt the coach for the rest of his career.
One bit of good has come out of all this, from the Ohio State-Marion side.
Sisler, the 44-year-old coach who scored 24 points in the blowout, sent Yuille an e-mail saying there were no hard feelings. He also said, ''the national publicity we're getting is tremendous'' and that more kids now are interested in playing for Ohio State-Marion.
From the Penn State Altoona perspective, tonight's game involves perhaps the most high-profile team ever to visit Adler Gym. The Lions might not be much of a match for Lincoln on the court, but at least their integrity isn't in question.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 14, 2006, 11:44:00 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 14, 2006, 11:44:00 AM
We (the royal we) are just rehashing the same points over and over and over again...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 11:55:42 AM
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 11:55:42 AM
Wilburt,
You are 100% correct...the same thing is being said. But what strikes me about this article is this from a local newspaper of a team (Penn St - Altoona) that plays Lincoln tonight, how much bad press did one game cause? This reporter probably never heard of Lincoln before two weeks ago but running up 201 points on any team will have people reading about your program. I would think this article would have never been written if Lincoln would have won 130 - 78.
Lefty
PS. Penn St - Altoona is 1-7 on the year, anyone want to guess the final score of tonights game?
You are 100% correct...the same thing is being said. But what strikes me about this article is this from a local newspaper of a team (Penn St - Altoona) that plays Lincoln tonight, how much bad press did one game cause? This reporter probably never heard of Lincoln before two weeks ago but running up 201 points on any team will have people reading about your program. I would think this article would have never been written if Lincoln would have won 130 - 78.
Lefty
PS. Penn St - Altoona is 1-7 on the year, anyone want to guess the final score of tonights game?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2006, 02:15:40 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2006, 02:15:40 PM
Most of that story is lifted directly from the AP story on the game. I've seen most of the same phrases (short of the obvious opinion) in a bunch of stories around the country.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 02:41:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 02:41:26 PM
Quote from: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
Small school Lincoln shows how little it cares about sportsmanship
By Cory Giger, cgiger@altoonamirror.com
The team and coach responsible for one of the year's most disappointing displays of sportsmanship will be in town tonight.
...
From the Penn State Altoona perspective, tonight's game involves perhaps the most high-profile team ever to visit Adler Gym. The Lions might not be much of a match for Lincoln on the court, but at least their integrity isn't in question.
I have to come out and say this. As a middle aged Southerner, who lived thru the integration of 3 different public school systems as my father's job called for him to move, that is about 3 shades this side of outright racism!
It is not "skin color" that he is questioning, but the "gangsta" implication is as vivid as every ugly "n-word" joke that I heard in the South in the mid 1960's. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 02:48:08 PM
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 02:48:08 PM
Ralph,
With all due respect I don't understand how you can say his article is racist. All he is saying is the integrity of Lincoln is being questioned because they ran up the score. Where do you see any reference to "gangsta"?
I am just curious of what you see that I am missing.
Thanks,
Lefty
With all due respect I don't understand how you can say his article is racist. All he is saying is the integrity of Lincoln is being questioned because they ran up the score. Where do you see any reference to "gangsta"?
I am just curious of what you see that I am missing.
Thanks,
Lefty
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 03:05:14 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 03:05:14 PM
Lefty, it is the "we are better than these guys" attitude without even seeing them. ("Our feces has no odor", to borrow a Texas-ism!)
Maybe growing up in the south makes one a little more sensitive to what you can say and what you can't.
As surely as that article showed up in the Montgomery AL Advertiser or the Marshall TX News, the national (NY, Philly, DC, Chicago, SF, LA ) media would have hit us Southerners for the "racist attitude".
Coming from Altoona, Pennsylvania, it is not looked at with the same bias/filter.
The most glaring aspect of Coach Yuille's strategy is playing Wylie at the end. That is our retrospective 20/20 hindsight! That is what we have discussed and it apparently wasn't seen by more than 31 friends, girlfriends, maintenance staff and onlookers. Lincoln probably has more fans than that in the gym during practice!
The fact that every other example given concerning higher profile coaches was rationalized and defended bothers me!
Coach Yuille was in the worst lose/lose/lose situation that I have recently seen.
The Salem International coach should have honored the request to change opponents! :(
Coach Yuille, I am sorry for you and your situation and I hurt with you!
Lefty thanks for the chance to respond! ;)
Maybe growing up in the south makes one a little more sensitive to what you can say and what you can't.
As surely as that article showed up in the Montgomery AL Advertiser or the Marshall TX News, the national (NY, Philly, DC, Chicago, SF, LA ) media would have hit us Southerners for the "racist attitude".
Coming from Altoona, Pennsylvania, it is not looked at with the same bias/filter.
The most glaring aspect of Coach Yuille's strategy is playing Wylie at the end. That is our retrospective 20/20 hindsight! That is what we have discussed and it apparently wasn't seen by more than 31 friends, girlfriends, maintenance staff and onlookers. Lincoln probably has more fans than that in the gym during practice!
The fact that every other example given concerning higher profile coaches was rationalized and defended bothers me!
Coach Yuille was in the worst lose/lose/lose situation that I have recently seen.
The Salem International coach should have honored the request to change opponents! :(
Coach Yuille, I am sorry for you and your situation and I hurt with you!
Lefty thanks for the chance to respond! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2006, 03:22:35 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 14, 2006, 03:22:35 PM
I have to admit I had the same reaction, Ralph. I didn't get the racist or even "gangsta" connection. Again this probably comes from my own experience where my brother's high school team (a bunch of WASPy middle-class white kids) got the same treatment. The article was certainly biased against Lincoln, but it didn't seem to be in an intolerant way (other than Altoona's apparent intolerance of outsiders), but if you've ever been to Altoona you can understand that Xenophobia may sell a lot of papers there.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 06:24:57 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 06:24:57 PM
Hoops Fan, thanks for that comment.
I know Wilburt has taken some heat recently as Fisk was, for lack of a better term, "released" from the GSAC.
There were multiple mission/vision things going on in the GSAC, including allocation to athletic budget, new facilities, new football programs in the new league, etc. But it was hard to get past that lingering doubt.
Good luck, Lincoln and PSU-Altoona!
I know Wilburt has taken some heat recently as Fisk was, for lack of a better term, "released" from the GSAC.
There were multiple mission/vision things going on in the GSAC, including allocation to athletic budget, new facilities, new football programs in the new league, etc. But it was hard to get past that lingering doubt.
Good luck, Lincoln and PSU-Altoona!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 07:13:48 PM
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 07:13:48 PM
Well I guess I am on the opposite side of Ralph and Hoop's opinion. When I read the article the first thing that came to my mind is the articles that have been written and the ones that still will be. I didn't see, and still don't, the "we are better then you". The last line about integrity could be said by any other Division 3 team.....until this happens again.
I have pretty much stayed out of this debate but I have to agree with OxyBob...if Lincoln did not have Wylie in at the end of the game it might have been a little easier to swallow.
I attended one of Lincoln's games earlier this season and they have a fine team and I actually still root for them to do well. I was just very disappointed in what happened...just like a lot of others.
I have pretty much stayed out of this debate but I have to agree with OxyBob...if Lincoln did not have Wylie in at the end of the game it might have been a little easier to swallow.
I attended one of Lincoln's games earlier this season and they have a fine team and I actually still root for them to do well. I was just very disappointed in what happened...just like a lot of others.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 08:59:12 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 08:59:12 PM
Lefty and OxyBob, thanks for the civil discussion. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 09:33:24 PM
Post by: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 09:33:24 PM
From the WOW department.....Penn St Altoona picks up its second win of the season with a 95-86 win over Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 11:04:42 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 11:04:42 PM
Wow is right. +1 for the score update!
That was an in-region game, so that Lincoln is now 3-2 (in-region record).
Pool B is more wide open!
That was an in-region game, so that Lincoln is now 3-2 (in-region record).
Pool B is more wide open!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 14, 2006, 11:12:06 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on December 14, 2006, 11:12:06 PM
Great win for Penn State Altoona. Karma hits back at Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on December 15, 2006, 04:00:34 AM
Post by: jack johnson on December 15, 2006, 04:00:34 AM
can we get back to talking about other pool B teams besides Lincoln.......anybody have any perspectives on how Pool B is shaping up early on???
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2006, 08:03:11 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2006, 08:03:11 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 17, 2006, 09:55:27 PM
The 2007 Men's Basketball (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) Handbook is out!
There are 37 Pool A bids, 3 Pool B bids and 19 Pool C bids to be allocated this year.
There are 37 Pool B teams and the Pool A access ratio for men's basketball is 1:9.32.
The Pool B allocation was calculated this way:
37 teams divided by 9.32 (Access allocation ratio) = 3.97 which is truncated to 3 bids (not rounded up to 4 bids).
This should be the last year for the Pres AC and its 7 members.
Lincoln PA should be in its last year of D3 before it moves to D2.
Colorado College is moving to the SCAC in 2007-08.
Clarke (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables.php?item=769) has announced that it is going to the NAIA in 2007-08.
The early contenders include (1) the GSAC Members (Maryville TN earned the Pool B in 2006), (2) the Northern Athletics Conference, (dubbed the NAthCon, members from the old Lake Michigan Conference plus the remaining NIIC members), Independents such as Lincoln and Chapman, and the Pres AC.
Jack, here are the Pool B's.
Bethany in the Pres AC is off to a 5-2 (in-region) start. If they can run the Pres AC table, then they can contend.
I think that the NAthCon will settle out as a regular conference would. We can follow them more closely after the Holidays.
In the 4-member GSAC, Maryville and LaGrange are the early contenders. I have a chance to see LaGrange this weekend, if work permits me. Maryville is 4-2 (In-Region) and plays Transylvania on Dec 18th. LaGrange is 3-2.
Chapman is 6-2 with 9 more in-region games remaining.
Three bids, four parts of the country and very little overlap! (University of Dallas plays both LaGrange and Chapman.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 15, 2006, 08:06:31 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 15, 2006, 08:06:31 AM
Just out of curiosity ...
What's going on with Lincoln? Three losses in their past four games. Problems?
What's going on with Lincoln? Three losses in their past four games. Problems?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2006, 08:16:16 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2006, 08:16:16 AM
Quote from: Warren Thompson on December 15, 2006, 08:06:31 AM
Just out of curiosity ...
What's going on with Lincoln? Three losses in their past four games. Problems?
I don't know, but Bethany WV has a win over common opponent PSU-Altoona!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: patcummings on December 15, 2006, 08:44:48 AM
Post by: patcummings on December 15, 2006, 08:44:48 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 02:41:26 PMQuote from: Lefty on December 14, 2006, 11:29:45 AM
Small school Lincoln shows how little it cares about sportsmanship
By Cory Giger, cgiger@altoonamirror.com
The team and coach responsible for one of the year's most disappointing displays of sportsmanship will be in town tonight.
...
From the Penn State Altoona perspective, tonight's game involves perhaps the most high-profile team ever to visit Adler Gym. The Lions might not be much of a match for Lincoln on the court, but at least their integrity isn't in question.
I have to come out and say this. As a middle aged Southerner, who lived thru the integration of 3 different public school systems as my father's job called for him to move, that is about 3 shades this side of outright racism!
It is not "skin color" that he is questioning, but the "gangsta" implication is as vivid as every ugly "n-word" joke that I heard in the South in the mid 1960's. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Ralph,
Thanks for being the one to say it...cause I have certainly thought it over the past few weeks, even in comments made on this board. There is frequent insinuation about the "way they play the game" and people aren't talking about fast paced, up and down, smothering-defense.
I say - play however you want to play and the cream will always rise to the top.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 15, 2006, 10:13:46 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 15, 2006, 10:13:46 AM
Warren:
Lincoln is playing without five key players due to team rule violations. Darryl White (the teams top shot blocker), Vincent Carter-Bey (the Lions defensive specialist) among others are out. I believe, the original suspensions were for one game, but now I hear the AD plans on keeping the guys out for the rest of the year. They will probably miss the Orlando, FL trip too.
I guess the outrage from the OSU-Marion worked, as the AD and Administration is doing whatever they can to make this "thing" go away. This is not whining, just fact.
Lincoln is playing without five key players due to team rule violations. Darryl White (the teams top shot blocker), Vincent Carter-Bey (the Lions defensive specialist) among others are out. I believe, the original suspensions were for one game, but now I hear the AD plans on keeping the guys out for the rest of the year. They will probably miss the Orlando, FL trip too.
I guess the outrage from the OSU-Marion worked, as the AD and Administration is doing whatever they can to make this "thing" go away. This is not whining, just fact.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 11:11:30 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 11:11:30 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 14, 2006, 06:48:54 PM
Ralph Turner:
Sorry, but you have strayed WAY off track by even bringing up race in this instance. I really hate it when the race card gets played when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand. What Lincoln did in running up 201 points on OSU-M has NOTHING to do with race.
I agree that what Lincoln did in scoring 201 points had nothing to do with race, but many of the responses to the game (on this board and elsewhere) had A LOT to do with race!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2006, 11:15:09 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2006, 11:15:09 AM
I haven't seen much in the way of race response. I've certainly seen a disconnect between classic midwest basketball style and a more contemporary flow, and while there may be racial components to that, I can't imagine it was near the forefront of too many people's minds.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 11:15:30 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 11:15:30 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 06:24:57 PM
Hoops Fan, thanks for that comment.
I know Wilburt has taken some heat recently as Fisk was, for lack of a better term, "released" from the GSAC.
Ralph, Fisk officially resigned from the GSAC, due to "pressure" from Piedmont, Maryville and Huntingdon Colleges :D ;D
Taking Heat is putting is politely ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 15, 2006, 11:44:58 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 15, 2006, 11:44:58 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 15, 2006, 10:13:46 AM
Warren:
Lincoln is playing without five key players due to team rule violations. Darryl White (the teams top shot blocker), Vincent Carter-Bey (the Lions defensive specialist) among others are out. I believe, the original suspensions were for one game, but now I hear the AD plans on keeping the guys out for the rest of the year. They will probably miss the Orlando, FL trip too.
Thanks, 'lion. That would appear to explain the losses.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2006, 12:57:35 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2006, 12:57:35 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 11:11:30 AMI agree that what Lincoln did in scoring 201 points had nothing to do with race, but many of the responses to the game (on this board and elsewhere) had A LOT to do with race!
You've triggered quite a bit of that yourself with your links to articles discussing race and basketball the day after the Lincoln/OSUM game, Wilburt.
I actually agree with you, Wilburt, that there was some racial tinge to a stray comment made here or there against Lincoln. The unfortunate use of the word "gangster" to describe the play of the Lions against OSUM, f'rinstance. No matter whether it's spelled with an '-er' or an '-a', it's a code word in our society for irresponsible and insensitive behavior by young black males, and like all racial code words it's used as a weapon that comes with plausible deniability (unlike more blatant racial words, such as the 'n'-word). The use of "gangster" in this conversation was ill-advised.
However, what makes me angry about the use of the race card is its presumptuousness. People who impugn the motives of those who have spoken out against Lincoln's actions against OSUM are making assertions about what lies inside the heads and hearts of the people who are doing the speaking-out -- and unless you know that poster personally, or have observed the poster's mindset over a long period of time, you're simply not qualified to claim that sort of insight into his or her inner being.
Forgive me for tending to give people the benefit of the doubt, or for presuming them innocent until proven guilty, but I'm not going to go along with hanging the collar of "racist" on people who have clearly not earned that odious appellation -- nor am I going to go along with calling their comments racist when it takes a certain amount of reading between the lines, and a lot of presumptuousness, to do so. Even in the case of the use of the word "gangster" to describe Lincoln's actions, it's entirely believable that the poster was naive about the loaded sociological meaning of the word, or he simply used it unconsciously rather than deliberately, or he truly thought (albeit mistakenly) that the correct spelling did not come laden with the same unfortunate baggage as the '-a' spelling.
Quote from: patcummings on December 15, 2006, 08:44:48 AMThanks for being the one to say it...cause I have certainly thought it over the past few weeks, even in comments made on this board. There is frequent insinuation about the "way they play the game" and people aren't talking about fast paced, up and down, smothering-defense.
There's also frequent insinuation about the way Grinnell plays the game. Spend a few days in January and February in the MWC room, and you'll see endless griping about Grinnell's style, in particular the fact that the Pioneers foul so frequently that the refs can't keep up with it and simply let a lot of stuff slide. Grinnell's roster is overwhelmingly white, each and every season. And I can think of some other teams that draw nasty comments about their style of play, nasty comments that have absolutely nothing to do with the racial identity of the team in question.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 01:28:45 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 01:28:45 PM
Gregory you bring up some good points (many of which I agree with, many I don't).
As for me, Guilty as charged. Yes I can and try to be provocative at times. Once the emotional response from my statement(s) wear off and one has time to reflect, I often find that many find merit to much of what I have to say!
As for me, Guilty as charged. Yes I can and try to be provocative at times. Once the emotional response from my statement(s) wear off and one has time to reflect, I often find that many find merit to much of what I have to say!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2006, 02:37:14 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2006, 02:37:14 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 15, 2006, 01:28:45 PM
Gregory you bring up some good points (many of which I agree with, many I don't).
As for me, Guilty as charged. Yes I can and try to be provocative at times. Once the emotional response from my statement(s) wear off and one has time to reflect, I often find that many find merit to much of what I have to say!
No problem, Wilburt. You're coming at this from an entirely different angle than most of us in terms of your background, and you thus bring an important point of view to this issue that we all need to consider.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2006, 02:58:13 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 15, 2006, 02:58:13 PM
Not to mention that I can imagine Wilburt has faced more than few racist basketball fans in his day.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2006, 08:43:23 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2006, 08:43:23 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 14, 2006, 03:05:14 PMI was ready to let this thing drop, but I just saw a news feature on CNN about racism that exists just "Below the Surface".
Lefty, it is the "we are better than these guys" attitude without even seeing them. ("Our feces has no odor", to borrow a Texas-ism!)
Maybe growing up in the south makes one a little more sensitive to what you can say and what you can't.
As surely as that article showed up in the Montgomery AL Advertiser or the Marshall TX News, the national (NY, Philly, DC, Chicago, SF, LA ) media would have hit us Southerners for the "racist attitude".
Coming from Altoona, Pennsylvania, it is not looked at with the same bias/filter.
Where did CNN choose to explore this topic?
In the deep east Texas town of Vidor, TX.
IMHO, the national media template uses a different filter for "other parts" of the country. :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2006, 01:12:25 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 16, 2006, 01:12:25 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on December 15, 2006, 09:52:16 PMGeez, Louise, what a load of overly sensitive, politically correct claptrap.
Baloney. I'm as antagonistic towards the concept of political correctness as anyone. But I know full well what the word "gangster" means in our society. Whether you want to admit it or not, it has undeniable racial overtones. It doesn't make one bit of difference how it is spelled.
I've already said that I give AndOne the benefit of the doubt. I don't think that he was being racist by using that word, and I don't think his intent was to race-bait on this issue. Nevertheless, it is a racial code word, and Wilburt's reaction to the word was thus completely understandable.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2006, 08:43:23 PMIMHO, the national media template uses a different filter for "other parts" of the country. :-\
I agree, Ralph. The media and the entertainment industry tend to hold condescending attitudes towards Southerners, and it's particularly true on the subject of race. Yet Ralph Abernathy and Martin Luther King left Chicago in 1966 convinced that white Northerners were more racist than their white counterparts in the South.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 01:15:44 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 01:15:44 PM
I certainly have a different perspective about race and D3 athletics than the vast majority of posters on the various d3hoops boards as an alum and former student-athlete at an historically Black College.
Given the flack (some justified, some not justified) that Lincoln and Fisk have received in recent months (or years - given your perspective), it is no coincidence that Lincoln will be going to D2 and resuming their traditional rivalries in the CIAA. The CIAA is probably the premier D2 basketball conference in the nation. It has produced several recent D2 NCAA Basketball Championship teams. Fisk will likely be going to D2 as well to resume their traditional rivalries in the SIAC. The scheduling headaches and attitudes of a few are just not worth staying in Division III.
With all that said, and despite the heated rhetoric at times of AndOne, I think this is a healthy discussion. It is about time we openly talked about the "elephant in the room."
Given the flack (some justified, some not justified) that Lincoln and Fisk have received in recent months (or years - given your perspective), it is no coincidence that Lincoln will be going to D2 and resuming their traditional rivalries in the CIAA. The CIAA is probably the premier D2 basketball conference in the nation. It has produced several recent D2 NCAA Basketball Championship teams. Fisk will likely be going to D2 as well to resume their traditional rivalries in the SIAC. The scheduling headaches and attitudes of a few are just not worth staying in Division III.
With all that said, and despite the heated rhetoric at times of AndOne, I think this is a healthy discussion. It is about time we openly talked about the "elephant in the room."
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 16, 2006, 01:24:21 PM
Post by: AndOne on December 16, 2006, 01:24:21 PM
WELL MEN----------
Since I'm the one everyone is referring to regarding supposedly recially charged
arguments concerning the Lincoln issue----LET ME SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT!
WILBERT---You mentioned how many Karma points you lost over this issue. You are
not alone. I lost several too---and most of them compliments of none other than
you. You know I didn't smite you as I can't even give/take Karma yet. So---I hope
you'll just take this for informational purposes only and not as an extention of our
past differences.
FIRST---Some reiteration is necessary, to wit: (from my post on page 54)
Wilbur----
* NOBODY---myself, Cold Case, wb1313, NEPAFAN, or anyone else EVER introduced
race in any way, shape, or form into the discussion of Lincoln's abhorant behavior
While I DID describe their play as "like gangsters," I made it a point
to explain my meaning by indicating I meant that it didn't seen like enough to get
OSUM down, but then they also had to beat & kick them after they were down by
scoring 70 more than OSUM in the 2nd 1/2 after they already led by 53 at halftime
* YOU in fact interjected race into the discussion by adding the attachment
concerning the racial incident (http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/
article_02335.shtml) into one of your early posts.
* YOU further attempted to inflame the issue in one of your replies to me in which
you stated that I used the word "gangsta" (rather than gangsters as above)
You changed what I said to feebily attempt to support your race based argument
SECOND---I did NOT use the word "gangstER" as any type of "code" word for
anything racially based. I am more direct than that and say exactly what I mean.
If I thought Lincoln's actions we racially motivated or if I was trying to make any
type of race based argument, I would have said "gangstA" To me--there IS a
difference in the meaning of the words. I don't care if Lincoln is black, white, or
green for God's sake!
OXY BOB----Thank you for your above defense/support in how the word in
question was used.
THIRD---MR SAGER--One of the most knowledgable, intelligent, and articulate
posters anywhere is all wet in his contention that:
"there was some racial tinge to a stray comment made here or there against Lincoln. The unfortunate use of the word "gangster" to describe the play of the Lions against OSUM, f'rinstance. No matter whether it's spelled with an '-er' or an '-a', it's a code word in our society for irresponsible and insensitive behavior by young black males, and like all racial code words it's used as a weapon that comes with plausible deniability (unlike more blatant racial words, such as the 'n'-word). The use of "gangster" in this conversation was ill-advised."
See #2 above
FORTH---I completely agree with MR SAGER'S statement
"However, what makes me angry about the use of the race card is its presumptuousness. People who impugn the motives of those who have spoken out against Lincoln's actions against OSUM are making assertions about what lies inside the heads and hearts of the people who are doing the speaking-out -- and unless you know that poster personally, or have observed the poster's mindset over a long period of time, you're simply not qualified to claim that sort of insight into his or her inner being.
Forgive me for tending to give people the benefit of the doubt, or for presuming them innocent until proven guilty, but I'm not going to go along with hanging the collar of "racist" on people who have clearly not earned that odious appellation -- nor am I going to go along with calling their comments racist when it takes a certain amount of reading between the lines, and a lot of presumptuousness, to do so."
FIFTH----
WILBERT----You DON'T whats in my mind and heart .
Maybe its just my age, background, culture, whatever, but to me use of the word
"gangstER" implies just what I explained previously. A gangster is one who is
simply not satisfied with "killing" the opponent. He has to make a point while
doing it. It kinda goes back to the old movies---you can't just shoot him with a
pistol---you have to make a dominating point by pounding 50 bullets into him
with a sub-machine gun. The sports reference being its not enough to win--you
have to pound the opponent into dust by continuing to pile up points at a
record setting pace. :(
SIXTH---Two of my good budies are an African-American pre-season D3 All-American
and an African-American D3 assistant basketball coach. Does anyone, for
one minute, believe these guys would be my friends id they thought my
thoughts/actions were in ANY way racially motivated? NOOOOOOOO!
LASTLY--Haven't we ALL had enough discussion on this subject? Some of us feel
Lincoln's actions were deplorable and others have no problem with how
they played. We will never agree if we haven't by now. So---lets just AGREE
TO DISAGREE AND MOVE ON TO OTHER DISCUSSIONS ABOUT D3 SPORTS
WHICH WE ALL OBVIOUSLY FEEL IS TIME WELL SPENT ON A WONDERFUL
SUBJECT WE CERTAINLY CARE DEEPLY ABOUT!
Over and out----AndOne
Since I'm the one everyone is referring to regarding supposedly recially charged
arguments concerning the Lincoln issue----LET ME SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT!
WILBERT---You mentioned how many Karma points you lost over this issue. You are
not alone. I lost several too---and most of them compliments of none other than
you. You know I didn't smite you as I can't even give/take Karma yet. So---I hope
you'll just take this for informational purposes only and not as an extention of our
past differences.
FIRST---Some reiteration is necessary, to wit: (from my post on page 54)
Wilbur----
* NOBODY---myself, Cold Case, wb1313, NEPAFAN, or anyone else EVER introduced
race in any way, shape, or form into the discussion of Lincoln's abhorant behavior
While I DID describe their play as "like gangsters," I made it a point
to explain my meaning by indicating I meant that it didn't seen like enough to get
OSUM down, but then they also had to beat & kick them after they were down by
scoring 70 more than OSUM in the 2nd 1/2 after they already led by 53 at halftime
* YOU in fact interjected race into the discussion by adding the attachment
concerning the racial incident (http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/
article_02335.shtml) into one of your early posts.
* YOU further attempted to inflame the issue in one of your replies to me in which
you stated that I used the word "gangsta" (rather than gangsters as above)
You changed what I said to feebily attempt to support your race based argument
SECOND---I did NOT use the word "gangstER" as any type of "code" word for
anything racially based. I am more direct than that and say exactly what I mean.
If I thought Lincoln's actions we racially motivated or if I was trying to make any
type of race based argument, I would have said "gangstA" To me--there IS a
difference in the meaning of the words. I don't care if Lincoln is black, white, or
green for God's sake!
OXY BOB----Thank you for your above defense/support in how the word in
question was used.
THIRD---MR SAGER--One of the most knowledgable, intelligent, and articulate
posters anywhere is all wet in his contention that:
"there was some racial tinge to a stray comment made here or there against Lincoln. The unfortunate use of the word "gangster" to describe the play of the Lions against OSUM, f'rinstance. No matter whether it's spelled with an '-er' or an '-a', it's a code word in our society for irresponsible and insensitive behavior by young black males, and like all racial code words it's used as a weapon that comes with plausible deniability (unlike more blatant racial words, such as the 'n'-word). The use of "gangster" in this conversation was ill-advised."
See #2 above
FORTH---I completely agree with MR SAGER'S statement
"However, what makes me angry about the use of the race card is its presumptuousness. People who impugn the motives of those who have spoken out against Lincoln's actions against OSUM are making assertions about what lies inside the heads and hearts of the people who are doing the speaking-out -- and unless you know that poster personally, or have observed the poster's mindset over a long period of time, you're simply not qualified to claim that sort of insight into his or her inner being.
Forgive me for tending to give people the benefit of the doubt, or for presuming them innocent until proven guilty, but I'm not going to go along with hanging the collar of "racist" on people who have clearly not earned that odious appellation -- nor am I going to go along with calling their comments racist when it takes a certain amount of reading between the lines, and a lot of presumptuousness, to do so."
FIFTH----
WILBERT----You DON'T whats in my mind and heart .
Maybe its just my age, background, culture, whatever, but to me use of the word
"gangstER" implies just what I explained previously. A gangster is one who is
simply not satisfied with "killing" the opponent. He has to make a point while
doing it. It kinda goes back to the old movies---you can't just shoot him with a
pistol---you have to make a dominating point by pounding 50 bullets into him
with a sub-machine gun. The sports reference being its not enough to win--you
have to pound the opponent into dust by continuing to pile up points at a
record setting pace. :(
SIXTH---Two of my good budies are an African-American pre-season D3 All-American
and an African-American D3 assistant basketball coach. Does anyone, for
one minute, believe these guys would be my friends id they thought my
thoughts/actions were in ANY way racially motivated? NOOOOOOOO!
LASTLY--Haven't we ALL had enough discussion on this subject? Some of us feel
Lincoln's actions were deplorable and others have no problem with how
they played. We will never agree if we haven't by now. So---lets just AGREE
TO DISAGREE AND MOVE ON TO OTHER DISCUSSIONS ABOUT D3 SPORTS
WHICH WE ALL OBVIOUSLY FEEL IS TIME WELL SPENT ON A WONDERFUL
SUBJECT WE CERTAINLY CARE DEEPLY ABOUT!
Over and out----AndOne
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 01:47:28 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 01:47:28 PM
Quote from: AndOne on December 16, 2006, 01:24:21 PM
WELL MEN----------
Since I'm the one everyone is referring to regarding supposedly recially charged
arguments concerning the Lincoln issue----LET ME SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT!
***
FIFTH----
WILBERT----You DON'T whats in my mind and heart .
Maybe its just my age, background, culture, whatever, but to me use of the word
"gangstER" implies just what I explained previously. A gangster is one who is
simply not satisfied with "killing" the opponent. He has to make a point while
doing it. It kinda goes back to the old movies---you can't just shoot him with a
pistol---you have to make a dominating point by pounding 50 bullets into him
with a sub-machine gun. The sports reference being its not enough to win--you
have to pound the opponent into dust by continuing to pile up points at a
record setting pace. :(
SIXTH---Two of my good budies are an African-American pre-season D3 All-American
and an African-American D3 assistant basketball coach. Does anyone, for
one minute, believe these guys would be my friends id they thought my
thoughts/actions were in ANY way racially motivated? NOOOOOOOO!
First, the only way I know what's in your mind AndOne and what is in your heart is by what you say or have written. You can rationalize your use of the word gangster all you want - but it still has a racial overtone to it. You certainly weren't talking about an Edward G. Robinson character when you used that term, but rather you were referring to some student-athletes from an historically Black College!
Second, AndOne I was waiting for you to use the "one of my best friends is African-American" line as another possible rationalization for your rhetoric and you have not disappointed me! Give me their names and let me ask them if they were (are) still your friends! Then I'll believe you...
To make up for the past negative karma I will +1 on your Karma total as a sign of peace!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: colincondi on December 16, 2006, 02:09:49 PM
Post by: colincondi on December 16, 2006, 02:09:49 PM
Wilburt,
You said that Fisk resigned due to pressure from Piedmont, Huntingdon, and Maryville... what about LaGrange? On the women's side, what about Agnes Scott, Wesleyan, and Spelman? I'm curious as to why you left them out...
You said that Fisk resigned due to pressure from Piedmont, Huntingdon, and Maryville... what about LaGrange? On the women's side, what about Agnes Scott, Wesleyan, and Spelman? I'm curious as to why you left them out...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 02:16:57 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 02:16:57 PM
Quote from: colincondi on December 16, 2006, 02:09:49 PM
Wilburt,
You said that Fisk resigned due to pressure from Piedmont, Huntingdon, and Maryville... what about LaGrange? On the women's side, what about Agnes Scott, Wesleyan, and Spelman? I'm curious as to why you left them out...
They (LaGrange, Agnes Scott, Wesleyan and Spelman) were left out because (to my knowledge) they were NOT the schools driving the charge to push Fisk out of the GSAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 03:37:19 PM
Post by: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 03:37:19 PM
As an aside here's a link to an article on Fisk's lone NBA (LA Lakers) player Kindall Stephens '70. Stephens is currently the Media Director for Tennessee State University. For those of you interested in history you may find it interesting...
http://www.tsumeter.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&uStory_id=0bbbc3eb-9029-4ea7-a515-3cb2a7e1fda4
http://www.tsumeter.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticle&uStory_id=0bbbc3eb-9029-4ea7-a515-3cb2a7e1fda4
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 16, 2006, 06:01:45 PM
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 16, 2006, 06:01:45 PM
Quote from: wilburt on December 16, 2006, 01:47:28 PM
You can rationalize your use of the word gangster all you want - but it still has a racial overtone to it. You certainly weren't talking about an Edward G. Robinson character when you used that term, but rather you were referring to some student-athletes from an historically Black College!
Wilburt:
First of all, I didn't have a dog in the pro-Lincoln/anti-Lincoln catfight [I know, I know ... I'm gratuitously mixing my metaphors] -- and I still don't. And I'm glad I don't: the discussion has moved to a level bordering on the surreal.
However, can you be absolutely certain that the use of the term "gangsters" by certain posters was, in fact, a not-so-thinly-veiled racial epithet? (It could have been, of course, but was it?)
I'll be blunt and likely unpolitic here: is it possible that you saw in these posts what you wanted to see, that you were taking offense when no offense was ever intended? Is it possible that, for whatever reasons, you were actually looking for a [racial] fight? And that no one else was?
I don't have answers to these questions. You alone can answer them. (Nor do you have to answer them to me. Remember, I'm not in this catfight, dog or no dog. ;))
BTW you've otherwise made some very good points in your exchanges. Finally, please know that I'm not looking to initiate a "flame war," racial or otherwise, and that I look forward to a thoughtful response.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 16, 2006, 06:31:06 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 16, 2006, 06:31:06 PM
At the risk of continuing the Lincoln/OSU-Marion fiasco, calling the Lincoln Coach an Ass, without really knowing him is a bit harsh. Get to know someone for more than one incidence before labelling him for the rest of his life. I'm certainly glad my friends forgive me when I've made mistakes, especially since I only know of one perfect person who has ever walked this earth.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:01:27 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:01:27 AM
Warren Thompson:
As I noted in a previous post, AndOne went over the top IMHO with his choice of words in his criticism of Lincoln (in addition to calling me a neanderthal). Now am I not supposed to take offense at being called a neanderthal? Moreover, no one else used the term "gangster ball" but AndOne. He ineptly tried to explain why. AndOne even admitted at one point that if he had used the word "gangsta" then that would be racist (if memory serves me correct). So what's the difference between the use of "gangsta" and "gangster" other than spelling Warren?
As I noted in a previous post, AndOne went over the top IMHO with his choice of words in his criticism of Lincoln (in addition to calling me a neanderthal). Now am I not supposed to take offense at being called a neanderthal? Moreover, no one else used the term "gangster ball" but AndOne. He ineptly tried to explain why. AndOne even admitted at one point that if he had used the word "gangsta" then that would be racist (if memory serves me correct). So what's the difference between the use of "gangsta" and "gangster" other than spelling Warren?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 17, 2006, 09:08:12 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 17, 2006, 09:08:12 AM
Quote from: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:01:27 AM
Warren Thompson:
So what's the difference between the use of "gangsta" and "gangster" other than spelling Warren?
Thanks for responding.
As I said, "gangster" certainly could be racist. However, is it necessarily so?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:15:16 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:15:16 AM
Warren:
So if you concede that it could be and I took it to be then what's the point of this discussion? Merely academic?
So if you concede that it could be and I took it to be then what's the point of this discussion? Merely academic?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 17, 2006, 09:35:18 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 17, 2006, 09:35:18 AM
Quote from: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:15:16 AM
Warren:
So if you concede that it could be and I took it to be then what's the point of this discussion? Merely academic?
You just might be correct. The whole damn thing has become off-the-wall. Perhaps we ought merely to end it.
Meanwhile, I'll go pet my dog, imaginary as he is, and remind him again to stay out of catfights. ::)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:43:45 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 17, 2006, 09:43:45 AM
Thanks for the discussion Warren. I don't have any pets (imaginary or real). So I have to tell the neighbor's dog (who is VERY real) and remind him (or is it a her?) to stay out of catfights as well. ::)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 17, 2006, 01:40:25 PM
Post by: AndOne on December 17, 2006, 01:40:25 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 16, 2006, 06:31:06 PM
At the risk of continuing the Lincoln/OSU-Marion fiasco, calling the Lincoln Coach an Ass, without really knowing him is a bit harsh. Get to know someone for more than one incidence before labelling him for the rest of his life. I'm certainly glad my friends forgive me when I've made mistakes, especially since I only know of one perfect person who has ever walked this earth.
NJ---
The Lincoln coach might not be an ass, but he certainly acted like one when he didn't play his worst 5 players the entire 2nd half and didn't tell the players that played to use the whole 35 second clock and not to shoot any threes. This was, at minimum a blatant display of unsportsmanlike conduct, and disrespecting an opponent. However, his strongest demonstration of acting like a behind may have come when he attempted to rationalize his team's behavior by making a statement something to the effect that nobody should take exception to how Linciln played because, after all, the guys had just had to endure a 5 hour bus ride and needed a release after the long ride.
Also---don't forget Lincoln's play was so unsportsmanlike and disrespectful that the Lincoln AD issused a public apology by means of a press release. Do you think the AD would go to such great length to distance the school from the coach's/team's actions if the coach hadn't acted EXACTLY like an ass?
Lastly---As far a labeling someone-----maybe you ought to tell your friend Wilbert that labeling someone as a racist is one of the most terrible and lowest things you can call a person. I'd rather be an ass any day! Yet Wilbert, did exactly that. He stated I must be racist because HE took my use of the word gangstERs to be racist.
This was despite my going to great lengths to explain exactly what I meant by the use of the word.
Call me stupid but at the time I said Lincoln played like gangsters, I didn't even know the school is a predominately or maybe entirely black university. Why would I know this?---I'm in the Midwest and Lincoln is in NJ. Given this, there couldn't be any racial intent or implication in saying they played like gangsters. I was strictly referring to Lincoln's behavior in the OSUM game. I couldn't care if they were black, white, or green!
At the least, Wilbert called me a liar when he said my explanation of how I meant the word was just an attempt to rationalize my use of it, and especially when he said he didn't believe I have black friends by saying "I was waiting for you to say that." So---in your buddy Wilbert's humble (and absolutely wrong) opinion I am at best a liar, and at worst a racist. Talk about labeling. Talk to Wilbert about that!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: colincondi on December 17, 2006, 02:08:00 PM
Post by: colincondi on December 17, 2006, 02:08:00 PM
Wilburt is very good at labeling and jumping to conclusions without knowing someone or without knowing all the facts of a situation... feel free to check out the GSAC discussion of late May/early June... He has some really great posts, loves his university deeply, and is obviously an intelligent man, but he does tend to jump to conclusions rather freely when race is the issue... I wish he were a little less cynical about people in general...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 17, 2006, 03:58:57 PM
Post by: AndOne on December 17, 2006, 03:58:57 PM
Indeed!
And WILBERT was the first to introduce race into the Lincoln controversy when he included the attachment (http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/
article_02335.shtml) into one of his early posts. :( :( :(
Also---as Gregory Sager pointed out in his 12/15 post----
"However, what makes me angry about the use of the race card is its presumptuousness. People who impugn the motives of those who have spoken out against Lincoln's actions against OSUM are making assertions about what lies inside the heads and hearts of the people who are doing the speaking-out -- and unless you know that poster personally, or have observed the poster's mindset over a long period of time, you're simply not qualified to claim that sort of insight into his or her inner being."
Additionally---as Warren Thompson asked in his post yesterday----
"I'll be blunt and likely unpolitic here: is it possible that you saw in these posts what you wanted to see, that you were taking offense when no offense was ever intended? Is it possible that, for whatever reasons, you were actually looking for a [racial] fight? And that no one else was?"
Lastly----as has been pointed out before-----
We learn as kids that when a group of people is gathered the one who shouts
"Who farted" is usually the one who did it. I think most of us also know that in a
discussion on any subject, the one who first plays the race card and attempts
to label the opposition's arguments as racist is usually the one who has the
biggest problem relating to members of the opposite race, and in fact, is
probably the most racist of the group.
On top of all this it now comes out, as colincondi reminds us in his above post, that Wilbert has a history of of interjecting race into his arguments.
Therefore----My question to all is----Who has the problem here? :-X
And WILBERT was the first to introduce race into the Lincoln controversy when he included the attachment (http://www.blackathlete.net/artman/publish/
article_02335.shtml) into one of his early posts. :( :( :(
Also---as Gregory Sager pointed out in his 12/15 post----
"However, what makes me angry about the use of the race card is its presumptuousness. People who impugn the motives of those who have spoken out against Lincoln's actions against OSUM are making assertions about what lies inside the heads and hearts of the people who are doing the speaking-out -- and unless you know that poster personally, or have observed the poster's mindset over a long period of time, you're simply not qualified to claim that sort of insight into his or her inner being."
Additionally---as Warren Thompson asked in his post yesterday----
"I'll be blunt and likely unpolitic here: is it possible that you saw in these posts what you wanted to see, that you were taking offense when no offense was ever intended? Is it possible that, for whatever reasons, you were actually looking for a [racial] fight? And that no one else was?"
Lastly----as has been pointed out before-----
We learn as kids that when a group of people is gathered the one who shouts
"Who farted" is usually the one who did it. I think most of us also know that in a
discussion on any subject, the one who first plays the race card and attempts
to label the opposition's arguments as racist is usually the one who has the
biggest problem relating to members of the opposite race, and in fact, is
probably the most racist of the group.
On top of all this it now comes out, as colincondi reminds us in his above post, that Wilbert has a history of of interjecting race into his arguments.
Therefore----My question to all is----Who has the problem here? :-X
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on December 17, 2006, 07:18:28 PM
Post by: TeeDub on December 17, 2006, 07:18:28 PM
Quote from: AndOne on December 17, 2006, 03:58:57 PM
Indeed!
the one who first plays the race card and attempts
to label the opposition's arguments as racist is usually the one who has the
biggest problem relating to members of the opposite race, and in fact, is
probably the most racist of the group.
Therefore----My question to all is----Who has the problem here? :-X
Referring to someone as the "opposite race" may answer your own question.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 17, 2006, 08:03:36 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 17, 2006, 08:03:36 PM
Selected Pool B's (alphabetically)
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 6-1/4-1/ .800
Bethany Pres AC 8-3/6-2/ .750
Chapman Ind 6-3/6-3/ .667
Dallas Ind 6-23/5-23/ .625 UDallas loses tonight to Austin College
LaGrange GSAC 7-4/3-3/ .500
Lincoln Ind 5-3/3-2/ .600
MaryvilleTN GSAC 5-3/5-2/ .714
MSOE Ind 7-2/6-1/ .857
St Joe's ME Ind 5-3/5-3/ .625
Waynesburg PresAC 5-2/3-0/ 1.000
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Please review the NCAA Basketball Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) for the selection criteria.
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 6-1/4-1/ .800
Bethany Pres AC 8-3/6-2/ .750
Chapman Ind 6-3/6-3/ .667
Dallas Ind 6-
LaGrange GSAC 7-4/3-3/ .500
Lincoln Ind 5-3/3-2/ .600
MaryvilleTN GSAC 5-3/5-2/ .714
MSOE Ind 7-2/6-1/ .857
St Joe's ME Ind 5-3/5-3/ .625
Waynesburg PresAC 5-2/3-0/ 1.000
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Please review the NCAA Basketball Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) for the selection criteria.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 18, 2006, 01:12:05 AM
Post by: AndOne on December 18, 2006, 01:12:05 AM
Quote from: Jordis Rocks on December 17, 2006, 07:18:28 PMQuote from: AndOne on December 17, 2006, 03:58:57 PM
Indeed!
the one who first plays the race card and attempts
to label the opposition's arguments as racist is usually the one who has the
biggest problem relating to members of the opposite race, and in fact, is
probably the most racist of the group.
Therefore----My question to all is----Who has the problem here? :-X
Referring to someone as the "opposite race" may answer your own question.
Geez----Come ON Jordis!
When you are talking about a situation where one person is of one race and the second person is not of the same race what would you call the other person but someone of the opposite race? Would "different" or "another" be more suitable than "opposite"?
You are missing the point--that being not the semantics of one word or another, but rather the concept that the one who first plays the race card is usually the person who has the most problem dealing with members of another race.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 01:30:41 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 01:30:41 AM
Well, if there are only two races, then "opposite" makes sense. If there are more than two then how is one measured to be opposite?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 18, 2006, 01:47:32 AM
Post by: AndOne on December 18, 2006, 01:47:32 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 01:30:41 AM
Well, if there are only two races, then "opposite" makes sense. If there are more than two then how is one measured to be opposite?
Pat---
As the medium where the example was given was D3Hoops/Posting Up, I had in mind a situation where 2 people are posting back and forth as is often the case here.
As such I used the word "opposite." If there were more than 2 races involved, then "different" or "another" would have been more accurate descriptions for sure.
At any rate, I think this subject has had more than enough play here, and I'd bet many others agree. I was actually trying to refrain from saying anything more on the subject, but after I was referred to as a liar and/or racist even after honestly explaining exactly what I meant, I felt I had to respond. This could go on forever if we would let it. I for one, don't plan on any further comments on this issue. I hope others share the same feeling. Lets get back to sports related discussion. I'm pretty sure thats why you created the site in the 1st place.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 18, 2006, 07:49:43 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 18, 2006, 07:49:43 AM
Quote from: colincondi on December 17, 2006, 02:08:00 PM
Wilburt is very good at labeling and jumping to conclusions without knowing someone or without knowing all the facts of a situation... feel free to check out the GSAC discussion of late May/early June... He has some really great posts, loves his university deeply, and is obviously an intelligent man, but he does tend to jump to conclusions rather freely when race is the issue... I wish he were a little less cynical about people in general...
Quote from: AndOne on December 18, 2006, 01:12:05 AMQuote from: Jordis Rocks on December 17, 2006, 07:18:28 PMQuote from: AndOne on December 17, 2006, 03:58:57 PM
Indeed!
the one who first plays the race card and attempts
to label the opposition's arguments as racist is usually the one who has the
biggest problem relating to members of the opposite race, and in fact, is
probably the most racist of the group.
Therefore----My question to all is----Who has the problem here? :-X
Referring to someone as the "opposite race" may answer your own question.
Geez----Come ON Jordis!
When you are talking about a situation where one person is of one race and the second person is not of the same race what would you call the other person but someone of the opposite race? Would "different" or "another" be more suitable than "opposite"?
You are missing the point--that being not the semantics of one word or another, but rather the concept that the one who first plays the race card is usually the person who has the most problem dealing with members of another race.
Thank you Colincondi, AndOne and Jordis Rocks (BTW Jordis great point) for your respective opinions. I have been posting on d3hoops for about 3 years (over 800 posts) and I have made mention of this (or as a few have referred to it the race card) only on two or three occasions. To me that is not "quick to label" nor "jump to conclusions."
Twice was in reference to a comment someone made (ie AndOne and a GSAC poster) and the other was in reference to the actions/comments of a GSAC Athletic Director/Head Coach. With respect to the two comments, others have agreed with me (albeit reluctantly) that it could have been fairly construed as I took them.
As for the GSAC Athletic Director/Head Coach, his actions/comments to me were disingenuous given 1) the timing of them and 2) the logic (or lack therof) behind it.* This (along with other things) led me to believe that race was a latent factor behind his and/or their actions. If race were not an factor in much of the previous GSAC discussion in late May/early June and in this most recent discussion with Lincoln then I would not need to bring it up. But since it is, and given the defensive nature of the responses of a few of you all, it seems to me that I am correct in my assessment.
* His hometown newspaper even questioned the wisdom of his and his GSAC colleagues' actions.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 18, 2006, 10:54:06 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 18, 2006, 10:54:06 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 17, 2006, 08:03:36 PM
Selected Pool B's (alphabetically)
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 6-1/4-1/ .800
Bethany Pres AC 8-3/6-2/ .750
Chapman Ind 6-3/6-3/ .667
Dallas Ind 6-2/5-2/ .714
LaGrange GSAC 7-4/3-3/ .500
Lincoln Ind 5-3/3-2/ .600
MaryvilleTN GSAC 5-3/5-2/ .714
MSOE Ind 7-2/6-1/ .857
St Joe's ME Ind 5-3/5-3/ .625
Waynesburg PresAC 5-2/3-0/ 1.000
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Please review the NCAA Basketball Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) for the selection criteria.
Wow Ralph. That seems to be a lot of competition for just 3 Pool B bids. Somebody won't be happy in February...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 11:18:24 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 11:18:24 AM
"Somebody" never is.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:19:21 AM
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:19:21 AM
Quote from: wilburt on December 18, 2006, 10:54:06 AM
Wow Ralph. That seems to be a lot of competition for just 3 Pool B bids. Somebody won't be happy in February...
Usually its the first 3 teams left out of Pool C that are most unhappy.......esp after the Pool B's wipe out in round one by 30.
Refresh my memory.........how many Pool B's have advanced past their first game?
...and I agree with Wilburt that seems like a much larger group to choose from than in years past.......and with much more respectable records.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 11:30:58 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 11:30:58 AM
Lincoln did quite well as a B last year, losing to the eventual champion by 1 point on the road.
Maryville has also performed well enough to not embarass themselves.
It was a lot worse when there were more B bids, but 3 seems to be the right number to get competitive games.
If I recall, last year it was the C bids from weak regions that did the worst.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 18, 2006, 11:38:17 AM
Post by: David Collinge on December 18, 2006, 11:38:17 AM
Quote from: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:19:21 AM
Usually its the first 3 teams left out of Pool C that are most unhappy.......esp after the Pool B's wipe out in round one by 30.
Refresh my memory.........how many Pool B's have advanced past their first game?
B's in general don't tend to do well, but it's not like they never win. Maryville (TN) has won games in the tournament for eight years running, including two wins (one over second-ranked Hampden-Sydney) in 2000.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:47:50 AM
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:47:50 AM
I'll add that with the expanded Pool C field I really don't feel I have much of a gripe about the tournament anymore and in particular the Pool B participants.
.......just don't bring up in-region records, what's considered an in-region game and that goofy QOWI. :D ;)
.......just don't bring up in-region records, what's considered an in-region game and that goofy QOWI. :D ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 12:04:31 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 12:04:31 PM
They made it a little better this year, Sac including the geographic regions along with the sport specific ones for Men's basketball.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 12:47:16 PM
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 12:47:16 PM
For Hope.......
A game vs Mississippi College over 1,000 miles away is in-region for Hope.
A game vs Carthage 220 miles away is NOT.
This is NOT an improvement.
like I said don't bring it up.........
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 01:01:49 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 01:01:49 PM
Well of course not for Hope, but for most everyone else it's a great improvement. Weren't you aware that the whole NCAA structure exists to drive the Hope faithful to depression and insanity?
It's those reserved seats... we're all just so jealous.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 18, 2006, 01:10:12 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 18, 2006, 01:10:12 PM
Considering that Carthage won, would you really WANT it in-region?! ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 01:28:12 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 01:28:12 PM
Quote from: sac on December 18, 2006, 12:47:16 PM
For Hope.......
A game vs Mississippi College over 1,000 miles away is in-region for Hope.
A game vs Carthage 220 miles away is NOT.
This is NOT an improvement.
like I said don't bring it up.........
Every map has arbitrary boundaries somewhere. You're asking for perfection, which won't exist in our lifetime.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: zonescantstopme on December 18, 2006, 01:31:10 PM
Post by: zonescantstopme on December 18, 2006, 01:31:10 PM
Bumblin B's is that for Pool B
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on December 18, 2006, 01:39:46 PM
Post by: Titan Q on December 18, 2006, 01:39:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 01:28:12 PMQuote from: sac on December 18, 2006, 12:47:16 PM
For Hope.......
A game vs Mississippi College over 1,000 miles away is in-region for Hope.
A game vs Carthage 220 miles away is NOT.
This is NOT an improvement.
like I said don't bring it up.........
Every map has arbitrary boundaries somewhere. You're asking for perfection, which won't exist in our lifetime.
Yes, but why do we need boundaries and "in-region" and "out-of-region" games? If Wheaton (Wheaton, Illinois) vs Whitworth (Spokane, Washington) is now in-region and Hope (Holland, Michigan) vs Mississippi College (Clinton, Mississippi) is too, why not just make all Division III vs Division III games count?
I kind of understood the logic before in emphasizing regional play, which was basically to minimize travel. But now that teams can travel 1000+ miles and play an in-region game, it seems that explanation doesn't hold water any longer. Illinois Wesleyan is traveling to Los Angeles in December 2007 to play Occidental in an in-region game.
Don't get me wrong -- I am glad for the rule change and expansion of in-region definition. But for Wheaton vs Calvin (202 miles) to not count, yet Wheaton vs Whitworth does makes the whole process seem sillier than it did before.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 01:56:25 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 18, 2006, 01:56:25 PM
That's true; it doesn't make much sense in the East either, as states are closer to one another, but are also arbitrarily excluded from in-region status by their geographical region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 18, 2006, 02:22:20 PM
Post by: AndOne on December 18, 2006, 02:22:20 PM
IMHO it would NEVER make sense to say a game where teams are 200 miles apart is not in-region, but one where the contestants are separated by 1000 miles is. ???
Also----couldn't in-region vs non-region have a negative impact on tournaments across the country. Part of the attraction is to have teams from different parts of the country that your team would never otherwise see.
Possibe solutions:
1. As Titan Q suggests---If its D3 vs D3---count it!
2. If a mile limit is absolutely necessary----make it something like 500 miles to avoid situations where a game just 200 miles away isn't "regional"
3. If you go with option 2, add an exclusion for holiday season tournaments
It would be interesting to hear any other thoughts too!
Also----couldn't in-region vs non-region have a negative impact on tournaments across the country. Part of the attraction is to have teams from different parts of the country that your team would never otherwise see.
Possibe solutions:
1. As Titan Q suggests---If its D3 vs D3---count it!
2. If a mile limit is absolutely necessary----make it something like 500 miles to avoid situations where a game just 200 miles away isn't "regional"
3. If you go with option 2, add an exclusion for holiday season tournaments
It would be interesting to hear any other thoughts too!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 03:56:16 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 03:56:16 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on December 18, 2006, 01:39:46 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on December 18, 2006, 01:28:12 PMQuote from: sac on December 18, 2006, 12:47:16 PM
For Hope.......
A game vs Mississippi College over 1,000 miles away is in-region for Hope.
A game vs Carthage 220 miles away is NOT.
This is NOT an improvement.
like I said don't bring it up.........
Every map has arbitrary boundaries somewhere. You're asking for perfection, which won't exist in our lifetime.
Yes, but why do we need boundaries and "in-region" and "out-of-region" games? If Wheaton (Wheaton, Illinois) vs Whitworth (Spokane, Washington) is now in-region and Hope (Holland, Michigan) vs Mississippi College (Clinton, Mississippi) is too, why not just make all Division III vs Division III games count?
I kind of understood the logic before in emphasizing regional play, which was basically to minimize travel. But now that teams can travel 1000+ miles and play an in-region game, it seems that explanation doesn't hold water any longer. Illinois Wesleyan is traveling to Los Angeles in December 2007 to play Occidental in an in-region game.
Don't get me wrong -- I am glad for the rule change and expansion of in-region definition. But for Wheaton vs Calvin (202 miles) to not count, yet Wheaton vs Whitworth does makes the whole process seem sillier than it did before.
Why is it so wrong for Illinois Wesleyan/Occidental to be a regional game under the new definition but it was apparently OK for UW-Oshkosh/Occidental (longer trip) to be a regional game under the old definition?
I agree on the All-of-DIII-vs-All-of-DIII argument but I am willing to accept this interim step, which DOES make things better.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2006, 05:36:09 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2006, 05:36:09 PM
I will even propose the use of non-region games to let your team see where it is early in the season and not risk seeding consequences.
If an OAC to see how strong his team was, he could schedule a tourney vs some WIAC schools.
The game would fall into the secondary criteria, if the committee wanted to use it. I can see the value to this use of non-region games inside D3 as opposed to scheudling a D2 or an NAIA.
Hope had a good game that did not imapct its in-region record.
If an OAC to see how strong his team was, he could schedule a tourney vs some WIAC schools.
The game would fall into the secondary criteria, if the committee wanted to use it. I can see the value to this use of non-region games inside D3 as opposed to scheudling a D2 or an NAIA.
Hope had a good game that did not imapct its in-region record.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2006, 05:48:43 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2006, 05:48:43 PM
As the weaker teams that comprised Pool B in the first few years of its existence have moved into Pool A conferences, Pool B has gotten stronger.
In 2006 the Pool B teams compiled these results.
Maryville TN defeated Trinity TX 83-64, then lost to MissCollege 69-51.
Bethany WV* lost to Transylvania 75-56.
Villa Julie** defeated Baruch 86-71 and lost to WPU 72-48.
Lincoln defeated CNU 102-96, Messiah 100-80 and lost to National Champion VWC 72-71.
*Bethany and Pres AC move to Pool A in 2007-08.
**Villa Julie is from the North Eastern Athletic Conference which is moving to Pool A in the 2006-07. Villa Julie is moving to the Capital AC next year.
Pool B was 4-4 last year.
In 2006 the Pool B teams compiled these results.
Maryville TN defeated Trinity TX 83-64, then lost to MissCollege 69-51.
Bethany WV* lost to Transylvania 75-56.
Villa Julie** defeated Baruch 86-71 and lost to WPU 72-48.
Lincoln defeated CNU 102-96, Messiah 100-80 and lost to National Champion VWC 72-71.
*Bethany and Pres AC move to Pool A in 2007-08.
**Villa Julie is from the North Eastern Athletic Conference which is moving to Pool A in the 2006-07. Villa Julie is moving to the Capital AC next year.
Pool B was 4-4 last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:13:56 PM
Post by: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:13:56 PM
Nice to see a sarcastic smart mouthed remark can spark a little conversation. ;D
I only have two problems with the current setup.
1) In-region and non-region games. This is just silly, I used Hope as an example because its what I'm familiar with. First the NCAA is trying to dictate who you can and can't play which I think is wrong in and of itself, another debate for another day.
Second the fact that a game vs a team 1000 miles away or more counts more than a game vs a team 220 miles away is just ridiculous.
2) QOWI makes an assumption that a win vs an 8-4 team in Region A is the same as a win vs an 8-4 team in Region B. Thats simply not the case. Whats more absurb is you could beat both of those teams and only one would count.
I'm with Q on this, all D3 games should count if they're going to use a point system to compare teams.
I only have two problems with the current setup.
1) In-region and non-region games. This is just silly, I used Hope as an example because its what I'm familiar with. First the NCAA is trying to dictate who you can and can't play which I think is wrong in and of itself, another debate for another day.
Second the fact that a game vs a team 1000 miles away or more counts more than a game vs a team 220 miles away is just ridiculous.
2) QOWI makes an assumption that a win vs an 8-4 team in Region A is the same as a win vs an 8-4 team in Region B. Thats simply not the case. Whats more absurb is you could beat both of those teams and only one would count.
I'm with Q on this, all D3 games should count if they're going to use a point system to compare teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2006, 11:48:10 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2006, 11:48:10 PM
Quote from: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:13:56 PM
Nice to see a sarcastic smart mouthed remark can spark a little conversation. ;D
I only have two problems with the current setup.
1) In-region and non-region games. This is just silly, I used Hope as an example because its what I'm familiar with. First the NCAA is trying to dictate who you can and can't play which I think is wrong in and of itself, another debate for another day.
Second the fact that a game vs a team 1000 miles away or more counts more than a game vs a team 220 miles away is just ridiculous.
2) QOWI makes an assumption that a win vs an 8-4 team in Region A is the same as a win vs an 8-4 team in Region B. Thats simply not the case. Whats more absurb is you could beat both of those teams and only one would count.
I'm with Q on this, all D3 games should count if they're going to use a point system to compare teams.
It is like that across all regions and all sports. To change that would be a huge change in philosophy of athletics at D3.
I would like one additional (minor) rule change that would be in keeping with the "keep it local" philosophy, i.e., amend the 200 mile radius rule to allow any game played in a venue that within 200 miles of the campus.
Calvin plays in a tourney at North Park, 188 miles. Any opponent that is in-region for that venue can play vs Calvin, even UW-SP or Pomona-Pitzer.
Calvin to NPU (http://local.live.com/default.aspx?wip=2&v=2&style=r&rtp=~&&msnurl=home.aspx?%26redirect%3dfalse&msnculture=en-US)
North Park is an eligible Adminstative Region #4 venue, but is in the 200-mile radius for Calvin in Grand Rapids, MI. Thus one can administer that case in the database and the Boolean programming should not be to hard.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2006, 12:23:13 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2006, 12:23:13 AM
Austin College 70 UDallas 68. UDallas falls to 5-3 in-region and plays DePauw (another South Region team) after Christmas.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 19, 2006, 02:32:27 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 19, 2006, 02:32:27 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on December 18, 2006, 01:01:49 PM
Well of course not for Hope, but for most everyone else it's a great improvement. Weren't you aware that the whole NCAA structure exists to drive the Hope faithful to depression and insanity?
It's those reserved seats... we're all just so jealous.
No, I think it's the condiments.
Actually, the explanation is probably simpler than that. There's a rampant case of peninsulaphobia in the hallways of the NCAA. Or mittenphobia.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 18, 2006, 11:48:10 PMQuote from: sac on December 18, 2006, 11:13:56 PM
Nice to see a sarcastic smart mouthed remark can spark a little conversation. ;D
I only have two problems with the current setup.
1) In-region and non-region games. This is just silly, I used Hope as an example because its what I'm familiar with. First the NCAA is trying to dictate who you can and can't play which I think is wrong in and of itself, another debate for another day.
Second the fact that a game vs a team 1000 miles away or more counts more than a game vs a team 220 miles away is just ridiculous.
2) QOWI makes an assumption that a win vs an 8-4 team in Region A is the same as a win vs an 8-4 team in Region B. Thats simply not the case. Whats more absurb is you could beat both of those teams and only one would count.
I'm with Q on this, all D3 games should count if they're going to use a point system to compare teams.
It is like that across all regions and all sports. To change that would be a huge change in philosophy of athletics at D3.
I would like one additional (minor) rule change that would be in keeping with the "keep it local" philosophy, i.e., amend the 200 mile radius rule to allow any game played in a venue that within 200 miles of the campus.
Calvin plays in a tourney at North Park, 188 miles. Any opponent that is in-region for that venue can play vs Calvin, even UW-SP or Pomona-Pitzer.
Calvin to NPU (http://local.live.com/default.aspx?wip=2&v=2&style=r&rtp=~&&msnurl=home.aspx?%26redirect%3dfalse&msnculture=en-US)
North Park is an eligible Adminstative Region #4 venue, but is in the 200-mile radius for Calvin in Grand Rapids, MI. Thus one can administer that case in the database and the Boolean programming should not be to hard.
Excellent idea, Ralph. But, as usual, your visionary thinking will only serve to make us angrier towards D3's well-meaning but bungled attempts to work out its regionalist philosophy.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2006, 08:34:45 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 19, 2006, 08:34:45 AM
Greg, then we have boiled this done to a "permissive regionalist" philosophy versus a "national" philosophy.
This may be easier to find examples in football.
We had UMHB play UWW in the 9th week of the season. That game was probably scheduled before the "Adminsitrative region" rule change. The same might be said for Linfield versus HSU. I don't know if those games occur in 3 years, when the coaches have had a chance to figure out the rules implications and applications by the championship committee. I would rather see a Rowan UMHB that does not count in the primary criteria, than a Rowan-Iona/UMHB-(NAIA) Belhaven pairing on the same weekend.
In those parts of the country where there are ample D3 opponents, this rule seems weird. In the more isolated sections or in cases of very dominant teams that need to fill a schedule with games, I can see its utility.
This may be easier to find examples in football.
We had UMHB play UWW in the 9th week of the season. That game was probably scheduled before the "Adminsitrative region" rule change. The same might be said for Linfield versus HSU. I don't know if those games occur in 3 years, when the coaches have had a chance to figure out the rules implications and applications by the championship committee. I would rather see a Rowan UMHB that does not count in the primary criteria, than a Rowan-Iona/UMHB-(NAIA) Belhaven pairing on the same weekend.
In those parts of the country where there are ample D3 opponents, this rule seems weird. In the more isolated sections or in cases of very dominant teams that need to fill a schedule with games, I can see its utility.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 20, 2006, 03:06:02 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 20, 2006, 03:06:02 AM
Andone:
Lincoln is in Pennsylvania, not NJ.
Lincoln is in Pennsylvania, not NJ.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AndOne on December 20, 2006, 04:02:21 AM
Post by: AndOne on December 20, 2006, 04:02:21 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 20, 2006, 03:06:02 AM
Andone:
Lincoln is in Pennsylvania, not NJ.
Yes Sir. It sure is.
As I was responding to your post, I guess I had NJ on my mind. Sorry.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 20, 2006, 05:26:34 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 20, 2006, 05:26:34 AM
Whenever I have New Jersey on my mind, I reach for the can of air freshener.
/wonders if Knightstalker is still reading this room
/wonders if Knightstalker is still reading this room
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 20, 2006, 01:59:13 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 20, 2006, 01:59:13 PM
Now, Now Gregory, New Jersey, New Jersey is the Garden State ;D .
Besides The Garden State Parkway, I-80, I-78 are great scenic drives. The New Jersey Turnpike from Exits12-13 is really the "armpit" , which I'm sure Knightstalker will agree with me.
Besides The Garden State Parkway, I-80, I-78 are great scenic drives. The New Jersey Turnpike from Exits12-13 is really the "armpit" , which I'm sure Knightstalker will agree with me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2006, 06:36:09 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2006, 06:36:09 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on December 20, 2006, 01:59:13 PM
Now, Now Gregory, New Jersey, New Jersey is the Garden State ;D .
Besides The Garden State Parkway, I-80, I-78 are great scenic drives. The New Jersey Turnpike from Exits12-13 is really the "armpit" , which I'm sure Knightstalker will agree with me.
I've been on I-80 in northern New Jersey several times, and it really is quite scenic. I also have a close friend who used to live in Princeton (his sister still lives there), and that's a nice part of the state as well. I couldn't very well let such a perfect setup for a joke about New Jersey's toxic reputation pass unused, though.
Quote from: AndOne on December 20, 2006, 07:14:45 PMSome in NJ will tell you that fragrance just drifts across the river from New York. ;)
I've spent enough time on both sides of the Hudson to know that either side can accurately make that point.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 22, 2006, 09:44:49 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 22, 2006, 09:44:49 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 19, 2006, 02:32:27 AMQuote from: Hoops Fan on December 18, 2006, 01:01:49 PM
Well of course not for Hope, but for most everyone else it's a great improvement. Weren't you aware that the whole NCAA structure exists to drive the Hope faithful to depression and insanity?
It's those reserved seats... we're all just so jealous.
No, I think it's the condiments.
I didn't want to bring that up. It's still a sore spot for many.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 22, 2006, 09:45:15 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 22, 2006, 09:45:15 AM
It is true. The NCAA hates the state of Michigan. Remember the 1996 D1 football championship?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 06:09:41 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 22, 2006, 06:09:41 PM
Unfortunately, the NCAA has no say in that thing that passes for a Division I-A football championship. :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 23, 2006, 11:37:03 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 23, 2006, 11:37:03 AM
They still give out those wooden trophy sort of things and they chose to give two that year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 28, 2006, 03:50:50 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 28, 2006, 03:50:50 PM
Hoops Fan:
What do think of Lincoln's chances returning to the top 25 after two wins in Orlando, (with a win over #24 North Central) ?
The Lions return to action at the F&M Classic on Jan. 2 & 3 in Lancaster, PA.
What do think of Lincoln's chances returning to the top 25 after two wins in Orlando, (with a win over #24 North Central) ?
The Lions return to action at the F&M Classic on Jan. 2 & 3 in Lancaster, PA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 28, 2006, 04:06:22 PM
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 28, 2006, 04:06:22 PM
'lincolnlion:
Perhaps more to the point, how well might Lincoln do come next season in D2?
Perhaps more to the point, how well might Lincoln do come next season in D2?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 29, 2006, 10:58:21 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 29, 2006, 10:58:21 AM
Warren:
Lincoln's venture into D2 won't be easy. The Lions will be joining the tough CIAA conference with perrennial "powerhouses" Virginia Union and Bowie State. VA Union is Charles Oakley and Ben Wallace's alma mater. With respect to the other teams in the CIAA like VA State, St. Pauls, Elizabeth City State, St. Augustines, etc. the Lions should be okay.
On the good side, Lincoln has "owned" Cheyney State lately and has been on par with Salem International (winning last year and losing this year). I feel Lincoln has built a solid foundation for D2, but it's going to take time to make it to the upper echelon of the D2 ranks. The location of Lincoln midway between Philadelphia and Baltimore and with the connections the coaching staff has in the two cities should help. Additionally, Alumni in the New York and Washington DC areas have forwarded names to the coaching staff for consideration.
Lincoln's venture into D2 won't be easy. The Lions will be joining the tough CIAA conference with perrennial "powerhouses" Virginia Union and Bowie State. VA Union is Charles Oakley and Ben Wallace's alma mater. With respect to the other teams in the CIAA like VA State, St. Pauls, Elizabeth City State, St. Augustines, etc. the Lions should be okay.
On the good side, Lincoln has "owned" Cheyney State lately and has been on par with Salem International (winning last year and losing this year). I feel Lincoln has built a solid foundation for D2, but it's going to take time to make it to the upper echelon of the D2 ranks. The location of Lincoln midway between Philadelphia and Baltimore and with the connections the coaching staff has in the two cities should help. Additionally, Alumni in the New York and Washington DC areas have forwarded names to the coaching staff for consideration.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on December 29, 2006, 11:18:02 AM
Post by: wilburt on December 29, 2006, 11:18:02 AM
Virginia Union has one a couple of D2 National Championship in recent years...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 29, 2006, 11:27:02 AM
Post by: sac on December 29, 2006, 11:27:02 AM
Virginia Union----1980, 1992, 2005 Men's National Champions.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 29, 2006, 11:33:33 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on December 29, 2006, 11:33:33 AM
In the CIAA, Lincoln will travel with some very fast company. A very tough league.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 29, 2006, 12:03:00 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on December 29, 2006, 12:03:00 PM
VA Union was also runner-up last year in the D2 Championship game, as my pastor, youth minister and a few other "unionites" at my church constantly remind me. The only championships I could counter with was Lincoln's 2005 Men's Outdoor Track & Field champioship, and runnerup to Wisconsin-LAX in the 2006 championship.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 29, 2006, 02:02:49 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on December 29, 2006, 02:02:49 PM
I don't think Lincoln gets back in just yet.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on December 30, 2006, 05:00:47 PM
Post by: jack johnson on December 30, 2006, 05:00:47 PM
any input on how pool B seems to be shaping up going into early january? who are the front runners, and who the sleepers may be?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 30, 2006, 11:46:39 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 30, 2006, 11:46:39 PM
I have updated the Pool B's thru this minute. These five are pulling away from the pack for the 3 bids.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 17, 2006, 08:03:36 PM
Selected Pool B's (alphabetically)
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 8-1/6-1/ .857
Bethany Pres AC 8-3/6-2/ .750 Plays non-region Willamette late tonight
MaryvilleTN GSAC 7-4/7-3/ .700
MSOE Ind 8-3/7-1/ .875
Waynesburg PresAC 6-2/4-0/ 1.000
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Aurora and MSOE do not play one another this year!
In the PresAC, we have Bethany at Waynesburg on Jan 17th and the return at Bethany on Feb 7th.
Please review the NCAA Basketball Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2007/2007_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) for the selection criteria.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 01, 2007, 02:14:43 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 01, 2007, 02:14:43 AM
Selected Pool B's (alphabetically)
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 8-1/6-1/ .857
Bethany Pres AC 8-3/6-2/ .750 Did not play non-region Willamette late 12/30. Willamette played NAIA Bethany Kansas.
MaryvilleTN GSAC 7-4/7-3/ .700
MSOE Ind 8-4/7-2/ .818
Waynesburg PresAC 6-2/4-0/ 1.000
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Aurora and MSOE do not play one another this year!
Includes MSOE's loss to Cal Lutheran.
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 8-1/6-1/ .857
Bethany Pres AC 8-3/6-2/ .750 Did not play non-region Willamette late 12/30. Willamette played NAIA Bethany Kansas.
MaryvilleTN GSAC 7-4/7-3/ .700
MSOE Ind 8-4/7-2/ .818
Waynesburg PresAC 6-2/4-0/ 1.000
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Aurora and MSOE do not play one another this year!
Includes MSOE's loss to Cal Lutheran.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 03, 2007, 04:40:23 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 03, 2007, 04:40:23 PM
Ralph:
Where does Lincoln fit in with your Pool "B'ers"? The Lions have 4 loses this year and two were to DII schools.
Where does Lincoln fit in with your Pool "B'ers"? The Lions have 4 loses this year and two were to DII schools.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 03, 2007, 05:03:04 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 03, 2007, 05:03:04 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on January 03, 2007, 04:40:23 PM
Ralph:
Where does Lincoln fit in with your Pool "B'ers"? The Lions have 4 loses this year and two were to DII schools.
Happy New Year, NJ!
I have Lincoln's In-Region record as 4-2 (.667) with only 5 declared in-region games left.
Let's look...
I believe that Keystone games count (as a 3rd year provisional). That makes 6 in-region games.
Is Rutgers-Camden within 200 miles of Lincoln?
My tabulation says 46 miles. That makes 7 in-region games.
http://local.live.com/default.aspx?wip=2&v=2&style=r&rtp=~&&msnurl=home.aspx?%26redirect%3dfalse&msnculture=en-US
They are way far out on the bubble!
I think that they need to go no worse than 11-2. That is running the table!
I think that 10-3 is too precarious to project as safe.
Correction: The Franklin and Marshall win is an in-region game. That makes 14 in-region games. Running the table gives Lincoln an in-region reocrd of 12-2 (.857).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 04, 2007, 09:14:33 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 04, 2007, 09:14:33 AM
Ralph:
Happy New Year to you also. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the early year losses to Ramapo and PSU-? with the "Lincoln Five" dosen't come back and bite the Lions in the "rear-end". Here's to the Lions running the table (I hope) :-X .
Happy New Year to you also. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the early year losses to Ramapo and PSU-? with the "Lincoln Five" dosen't come back and bite the Lions in the "rear-end". Here's to the Lions running the table (I hope) :-X .
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 07, 2007, 03:12:27 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 07, 2007, 03:12:27 PM
Selected Pool B's (alphabetically). Top four teams by in-region won-loss percentage are highlighted in the bold font. (There are 3 bids in Pool B this year.)
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 10-1/8-1/4-1 .889
Bethany Pres AC 9-4/7-3/2-0 .700 Must fight Waynesburg for a bid.
Lincoln 9-4/6-2/ .750 Six in-region games remain (F&M is in-region.)
MaryvilleTN GSAC 9-4/9-3/1-0 .750 Ten in-region games including Piedmont today.
MSOE Ind 9-5/8-3/ .727 Six in-region games remain
Waynesburg PresAC 8-5/8-1/2-0 .889
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Aurora and MSOE do not play one another this year!
Includes MSOE's loss to Cal Lutheran.
School/ Conference/ Overall/ Region/ In-region percentage
Aurora NAthCon 10-1/8-1/4-1 .889
Bethany Pres AC 9-4/7-3/2-0 .700 Must fight Waynesburg for a bid.
Lincoln 9-4/6-2/ .750 Six in-region games remain (F&M is in-region.)
MaryvilleTN GSAC 9-4/9-3/1-0 .750 Ten in-region games including Piedmont today.
MSOE Ind 9-5/8-3/ .727 Six in-region games remain
Waynesburg PresAC 8-5/8-1/2-0 .889
(MSOE = Milwaukee School of Engineering)
Aurora and MSOE do not play one another this year!
Includes MSOE's loss to Cal Lutheran.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2007, 09:06:48 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2007, 09:06:48 AM
Glad to see Lincoln empty the bench against a lesser opponent last night. While they may have had one heck of a scoring performance in the second half (nearly 60 points) all ten guys got at least ten minutes and the time was spread much more evenly. Plus Wylie doesn't appear in the play-by-play after 3:25 to go.
This is a very talented team that was obviously affected by the negative publicity and also the unrelated suspensions. I hope they are indeed back on track and can find their way into the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 09, 2007, 09:45:30 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 09, 2007, 09:45:30 AM
Hoops Fan:
Thanks for the comments on Lincoln. The OSU-Marion and suspensions definitely hurt the Lions psyche and subsequent performances, I just hope the losses to Ramapo and PSU-Altoona won't hurt the Lions chances for the Pool B bid.
Ralph Turner feels the Lions must win out to assure a post season playoff, what do you think Hoops Fan?
Thanks for the comments on Lincoln. The OSU-Marion and suspensions definitely hurt the Lions psyche and subsequent performances, I just hope the losses to Ramapo and PSU-Altoona won't hurt the Lions chances for the Pool B bid.
Ralph Turner feels the Lions must win out to assure a post season playoff, what do you think Hoops Fan?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2007, 09:55:14 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 09, 2007, 09:55:14 AM
I agree. I don't think they can drop another one. The committee operates in such a vacuum of numbers that the extenuating circumstances of the Altoona loss are really going to hurt them. They just don't have solid teams on the schedule this year, certainly not to the degree they did last season. If they lose any more of their d3 games, they don't deserve to be in.
Aurora is putting up a great season so far. Then again, the PrAC can cannibalize itself and Maryville can always lose and let Lincoln in.
They have a shot if they win out, but if the other top Pool B teams also win out, then I think Lincoln is on the outside looking in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 09, 2007, 03:56:20 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 09, 2007, 03:56:20 PM
I think if Lincoln makes the postseason playoffs, they could create a little damage now that they are back on track. I think the key games down the stretch are Ramapo, Richard Stockton and New Jersey City. Ramapo is a home game for the Lions while Stockton and NJCU are on the road.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on January 17, 2007, 08:31:39 AM
Post by: jack johnson on January 17, 2007, 08:31:39 AM
i think these are the top 5 pool B teams right now with a few others on the outside looking in:
Aurora NAthCon 13-1 / 11-1
Westminster PrAC 10-5 / 9-1
Lincoln Ind 12-5 / 8-2
Maryville GSAC 11-4 / 11-3
Bethany PrAC 11-4 / 9-3
looks as if the PrAC will sort things out in conference play most likely only leaving one team worthy of a B bid........do you think Aurora may be worthy of a pool C bid which would allow four of these teams in? any comments on who may be on the bubble?
Aurora NAthCon 13-1 / 11-1
Westminster PrAC 10-5 / 9-1
Lincoln Ind 12-5 / 8-2
Maryville GSAC 11-4 / 11-3
Bethany PrAC 11-4 / 9-3
looks as if the PrAC will sort things out in conference play most likely only leaving one team worthy of a B bid........do you think Aurora may be worthy of a pool C bid which would allow four of these teams in? any comments on who may be on the bubble?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2007, 08:56:23 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 17, 2007, 08:56:23 AM
The Pool B's get handed out before the Pool C's so for a B school to get a C bid, the fourth best B has to be worthy of a C bid, not the best.
Also, I think those may change a little when both the regional rankings and the QOWI are factored in. I just can't wee Westminster having any kind of decent schedule number.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on January 17, 2007, 12:46:30 PM
Post by: pabegg on January 17, 2007, 12:46:30 PM
QOWI through Sunday (unofficial):
Aurora 10.92
Maryville 10.07
Westminster 9.40
Lincoln 9.40
Dallas 8.42 7-5 regional
St. Joseph's Maine 8.11 5-4 regional
Bethany 8.08 9-3 regional
Edgewood 7.92 7-5 regional
So there are some teams with room for growth (poor records but good schedule strength), but for the foreseeable future, only the top four look like they have a chance.
Aurora and Maryville would be ranked teams, and Westminster and Lincoln would be just off the regional board, so there's little likelihood of Pool C consideration unless all four go on winning streaks.
Aurora 10.92
Maryville 10.07
Westminster 9.40
Lincoln 9.40
Dallas 8.42 7-5 regional
St. Joseph's Maine 8.11 5-4 regional
Bethany 8.08 9-3 regional
Edgewood 7.92 7-5 regional
So there are some teams with room for growth (poor records but good schedule strength), but for the foreseeable future, only the top four look like they have a chance.
Aurora and Maryville would be ranked teams, and Westminster and Lincoln would be just off the regional board, so there's little likelihood of Pool C consideration unless all four go on winning streaks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2007, 08:55:50 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2007, 08:55:50 PM
Quote from: pabegg on January 17, 2007, 12:46:30 PMBethany has 2 games with Westminster and probably meets Westminster in the tourney. That is Bethany's chance to leap Westminster. I think that only one Pres AC team makes it.
QOWI through Sunday (unofficial):
Aurora 10.92
Maryville 10.07
Westminster 9.40
Lincoln 9.40
Dallas 8.42 7-5 regional
St. Joseph's Maine 8.11 5-4 regional
Bethany 8.08 9-3 regional
Edgewood 7.92 7-5 regional
So there are some teams with room for growth (poor records but good schedule strength), but for the foreseeable future, only the top four look like they have a chance.
Aurora and Maryville would be ranked teams, and Westminster and Lincoln would be just off the regional board, so there's little likelihood of Pool C consideration unless all four go on winning streaks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on January 17, 2007, 10:08:21 PM
Post by: gordonmann on January 17, 2007, 10:08:21 PM
Richard Stockton dealt a blow to the Lions' Pool B hopes by beating Lincoln 83-69. The Ospreys are playing very well and are among the hottest teams in the NJAC, but this loss especially painful for Lincoln.
Then again, will anyone else be able to catch them?
Then again, will anyone else be able to catch them?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 17, 2007, 10:12:47 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 17, 2007, 10:12:47 PM
Gordon:
The Richard Stockton loss was a "blow" to Lincoln :( . The box score showed RSC leading 37 - 19 in the first half that left the Lions with too much to overcome in the second half.
The Lions have upcoming games at a hot NJCU, and a home rematch with Ramapo. Hopefully some of the other "Bumblin B's" will stumble and help Lincoln out. The Lions are making me real nervous!
The Richard Stockton loss was a "blow" to Lincoln :( . The box score showed RSC leading 37 - 19 in the first half that left the Lions with too much to overcome in the second half.
The Lions have upcoming games at a hot NJCU, and a home rematch with Ramapo. Hopefully some of the other "Bumblin B's" will stumble and help Lincoln out. The Lions are making me real nervous!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:02:09 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:02:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2007, 08:55:50 PMQuote from: pabegg on January 17, 2007, 12:46:30 PMBethany has 2 games with Westminster and probably meets Westminster in the tourney. That is Bethany's chance to leap Westminster. I think that only one Pres AC team makes it.
QOWI through Sunday (unofficial):
Aurora 10.92
Maryville 10.07
Westminster 9.40
Lincoln 9.40
Dallas 8.42 7-5 regional
St. Joseph's Maine 8.11 5-4 regional
Bethany 8.08 9-3 regional
Edgewood 7.92 7-5 regional
So there are some teams with room for growth (poor records but good schedule strength), but for the foreseeable future, only the top four look like they have a chance.
Aurora and Maryville would be ranked teams, and Westminster and Lincoln would be just off the regional board, so there's little likelihood of Pool C consideration unless all four go on winning streaks.
After Lincoln's loss tonight, they are even more precariously on the bubble. Their in-region winning percentage drops to 9-3 with games remaining versus Ramapo, which beat them earlier this year, and NJCU. If they run the table, they will be 11-3. There is a big difference between 11-3 and 10-4. I don't think that they will get any in-region games from the "Independents" Tourney either.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 09:05:37 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 09:05:37 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:02:09 AM
I don't think that they will get any in-region games from the "Independents" Tourney either.
Ralph, I'm pretty sure the NCAA ruled that any post-season "Independents Tournament" would count as in-region, kind of like a conference tournament. I could be wrong, but I believe that's why they started these things in the first place.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 09:19:44 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 09:19:44 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2007, 09:05:37 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:02:09 AM
I don't think that they will get any in-region games from the "Independents" Tourney either.
Ralph, I'm pretty sure the NCAA ruled that any post-season "Independents Tournament" would count as in-region, kind of like a conference tournament. I could be wrong, but I believe that's why they started these things in the first place.
Hoops fan, thanks for the comment. I looked on last year's Lincoln schedule and those tourney games were not designated as in-regon. (They could have been mis-reported.) Two more wins help the winning percantage and may not damage the QOWI. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 09:53:25 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 09:53:25 AM
You're right Ralph. They are not specifically in-region games, however both teams from last year's indy tournament (St Joe's of Maine and Mitchell) would be in-region games for Lincoln this year under the new rule. The same would go for any New England team that participated.
St Joe's of Maine, Newbury, Mitchell, Southern Vermont, or UMPI would qualify, however, outside of St Joe's, I doubt any of these teams help the QOWI.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 12:24:45 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 12:24:45 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2007, 09:05:37 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:02:09 AM
I don't think that they will get any in-region games from the "Independents" Tourney either.
Ralph, I'm pretty sure the NCAA ruled that any post-season "Independents Tournament" would count as in-region, kind of like a conference tournament. I could be wrong, but I believe that's why they started these things in the first place.
There was nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 12:25:16 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 12:25:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2007, 09:53:25 AM
You're right Ralph. They are not specifically in-region games, however both teams from last year's indy tournament (St Joe's of Maine and Mitchell) would be in-region games for Lincoln this year under the new rule. The same would go for any New England team that participated.
St Joe's of Maine, Newbury, Mitchell, Southern Vermont, or UMPI would qualify, however, outside of St Joe's, I doubt any of these teams help the QOWI.
Mitchell is a second-year provisional and would not be a regional game for anyone.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 12:31:12 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 12:31:12 PM
Are you sure Mitchell is only second year? It seems like they've been around for longer. Were they like in a limbo state before? I was almost certain this was their third year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 12:51:51 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 12:51:51 PM
They were in the group that was held back.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 01:36:15 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 01:36:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 18, 2007, 12:51:51 PM
They were in the group that was held back.
Ah, that settles it then. Good for them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:08:50 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:08:50 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2007, 09:53:25 AM
St Joe's of Maine, Newbury, Mitchell, Southern Vermont, or UMPI would qualify, however, outside of St Joe's, I doubt any of these teams help the QOWI.
Hoops Fan, Region #2 is only the states of NY and PA. Region #1 takes in MD, DC, NJ, DE and New England. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 02:24:44 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 18, 2007, 02:24:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2007, 02:08:50 PMQuote from: Hoops Fan on January 18, 2007, 09:53:25 AM
St Joe's of Maine, Newbury, Mitchell, Southern Vermont, or UMPI would qualify, however, outside of St Joe's, I doubt any of these teams help the QOWI.
Hoops Fan, Region #2 is only the states of NY and PA. Region #1 takes in MD, DC, NJ, DE and New England.
You're totally right. I keep thinking that Lincoln is in NJ even thought I have friends who live about ten miles away in PA. So there are no other independents for them to play and only the PA contingent of PrAC teams would even be Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on January 20, 2007, 08:43:42 AM
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on January 20, 2007, 08:43:42 AM
I think that chapman may sneak into the equation if your mentioning UDallas and those others. Chapman is 10-5 (8-5 in the region) with Dallas and Colorado College Saturday and Sunday. If they run the table, they would be 14-5 in the region including independents tourney. Losses to # 14 UPS at home (ot), and #17 Oxy on the road. Their remaining games are against sub-.500 but still regional. Pat what do you think?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 20, 2007, 10:12:09 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 20, 2007, 10:12:09 AM
I think it's nice to see Chapman playing a few more regional games. I think the five games against UC Santa Cruz (2-13) and Colorado College (1-16) are going to be a real drag on the QOWI, however.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 20, 2007, 09:12:05 PM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 20, 2007, 09:12:05 PM
Colorado College easily beat the Slugs today. Chapman beat Dallas.
Colorado only has a nine man team. UCSC has ten.
Colorado only has a nine man team. UCSC has ten.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2007, 09:23:49 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2007, 09:23:49 PM
Quote from: Gray Fox on January 20, 2007, 09:12:05 PMI hope that Colorado College gets some more players with the move to the SCAC. :-\
Colorado College easily beat the Slugs today. Chapman beat Dallas.
Colorado only has a nine man team. UCSC has ten.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 20, 2007, 09:44:42 PM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 20, 2007, 09:44:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2007, 09:23:49 PMThey are thin in number, but they play hard and well.Quote from: Gray Fox on January 20, 2007, 09:12:05 PMI hope that Colorado College gets some more players with the move to the SCAC. :-\
Colorado College easily beat the Slugs today. Chapman beat Dallas.
Colorado only has a nine man team. UCSC has ten.
Foul trouble hurt them against Dallas last night. More players would have helped that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 21, 2007, 07:22:40 PM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 21, 2007, 07:22:40 PM
Quote from: Gray Fox on January 20, 2007, 09:12:05 PMThere were only nine bodies, but the roster shows eleven. One is a senior, and four are freshmen.
Colorado only has a nine man team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 10:07:34 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 10:07:34 PM
Pool B update:
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Team/Conference/Overall/In-region/In-RegionPercentage/In-region games remaining
1) Aurora/NAthCon/15-1/13-1/.929/9 + conf. tourney
2) Westminster PA/PresAC/11-6/10-2**/.833/7 + conf. tourney (Win over Bethany)
3) Maryville/GSAC/13-4/13-3/.813/6 + conf. tourney
4) Lincoln PA/Ind/12-6/9-3/.750/2 (no tourney confirmed)*
5) Bethany/Pres AC/12-5/10-4/.714/6 + conf. tourney (Loss to Westminster PA)
6) Chapman/Ind/11-5/10-5/.667/2 + possible tourney (Assuming Chapman won today over Colorado College)
7) Edgewood/NAthCon/10-5/9-5/.643/9 + conf. tourney
*My bad! I forgot! (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2870.706) Thanks scotsbrod! +1!
** Tip of the hat to wooscotsfan on catching the Westminster-Marietta "in-region" game! (+1 back at you!) ;)
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Team/Conference/Overall/In-region/In-RegionPercentage/In-region games remaining
1) Aurora/NAthCon/15-1/13-1/.929/9 + conf. tourney
2) Westminster PA/PresAC/11-6/10-2**/.833/7 + conf. tourney (Win over Bethany)
3) Maryville/GSAC/13-4/13-3/.813/6 + conf. tourney
4) Lincoln PA/Ind/12-6/9-3/.750/2 (no tourney confirmed)*
5) Bethany/Pres AC/12-5/10-4/.714/6 + conf. tourney (Loss to Westminster PA)
6) Chapman/Ind/11-5/10-5/.667/2 + possible tourney (Assuming Chapman won today over Colorado College)
7) Edgewood/NAthCon/10-5/9-5/.643/9 + conf. tourney
*My bad! I forgot! (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2870.706) Thanks scotsbrod! +1!
** Tip of the hat to wooscotsfan on catching the Westminster-Marietta "in-region" game! (+1 back at you!) ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 21, 2007, 10:28:37 PM
Post by: kiltedbryan on January 21, 2007, 10:28:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 10:07:34 PM
Pool B update:
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Ralph,
The 2007 Handbook notes that this year there will only be three Pool B bids awarded, unlike the four from past years. The bubble line would therefore fall before Lincoln, under your listing.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wooscotsfan on January 21, 2007, 11:46:56 PM
Post by: wooscotsfan on January 21, 2007, 11:46:56 PM
Ralph -- very nice job on the Pool B update! k+
One minor typo on Westminster's D3Hoops schedule is that Marietta is not listed as an in-region game but the Pioneers and the Titans both play in the Great Lakes region.
So, Westminster's in-region record is actually 10-2, giving them credit for their win vs. Marietta.
One minor typo on Westminster's D3Hoops schedule is that Marietta is not listed as an in-region game but the Pioneers and the Titans both play in the Great Lakes region.
So, Westminster's in-region record is actually 10-2, giving them credit for their win vs. Marietta.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 22, 2007, 01:40:56 AM
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 22, 2007, 01:40:56 AM
Of the 2 NathCon teams mentioned, Aurora's got only 3 regular-season road games left (WLC, Rockford College and Dominican). Should the Spartans win out, it would be a big feather in NathCons' cap from a PR standpoint.
In contrast, Edgewood has 4 home games (WLC, Dominican, Benedictine and Concordia, WI) and 5 on the road (Maranatha, Marian, Concordia-Chicago, Rockford and Aurora). On paper, Edgewood figures to get at least 3 more wins. The Eagles handed Aurora their only loss so far this season. IMHO, Edgewood may have to win out--(wouldn't be surprised if they lost to Aurora).
Aurora-- better balanced of the two--been pretty deadly from 3-point range.
Edgewood--As long as DeMarco & Averkamp stay healthy they'll hang in for a while.
In contrast, Edgewood has 4 home games (WLC, Dominican, Benedictine and Concordia, WI) and 5 on the road (Maranatha, Marian, Concordia-Chicago, Rockford and Aurora). On paper, Edgewood figures to get at least 3 more wins. The Eagles handed Aurora their only loss so far this season. IMHO, Edgewood may have to win out--(wouldn't be surprised if they lost to Aurora).
Aurora-- better balanced of the two--been pretty deadly from 3-point range.
Edgewood--As long as DeMarco & Averkamp stay healthy they'll hang in for a while.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 01:54:35 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 01:54:35 AM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on January 22, 2007, 01:40:56 AMTo avenge the non-conference in-region losses, I agree with you, in that I think that Edgewood must sweep their last 9 regular season games plus 3? games in the tourney to get to 21-5 in-region.
Of the 2 NathCon teams mentioned, Aurora's got only 3 regular-season road games left (WLC, Rockford College and Dominican). Should the Spartans win out, it would be a big feather in NathCons' cap from a PR standpoint.
In contrast, Edgewood has 4 home games (WLC, Dominican, Benedictine and Concordia, WI) and 5 on the road (Maranatha, Marian, Concordia-Chicago, Rockford and Aurora). On paper, Edgewood figures to get at least 3 more wins. The Eagles handed Aurora their only loss so far this season. IMHO, Edgewood may have to win out--(wouldn't be surprised if they lost to Aurora).
Aurora-- better balanced of the two--been pretty deadly from 3-point range.
Edgewood--As long as DeMarco & Averkamp stay healthy they'll hang in for a while.
I think that Maryville TN is almost a lock, and the Pres AC gets one bid. That leaves one bid for the NAthCon. Of course, if the College Presidents had just merged the NIIC into the Lake Michigan, all this would have been immaterial and the LakeMichgan bid would be in play. I think that all NAthCon teams are eliminated from Pool B consideration by this time of the season by Aurora's fast start. The LMC Pool A would stay, and there would only be 2 Pool B bids!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 01:56:54 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 01:56:54 AM
I also think that all Pool B bids will have winning percentages of > 0.800!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 08:59:04 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 08:59:04 AM
Quote from: scotsbrod on January 21, 2007, 10:28:37 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 10:07:34 PM
Pool B update:
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Ralph,
The 2007 Handbook notes that this year there will only be three Pool B bids awarded, unlike the four from past years. The bubble line would therefore fall before Lincoln, under your listing.
There were only three last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 09:06:09 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 22, 2007, 09:06:09 AM
Quote from: jack johnson on February 27, 2006, 09:43:37 PMHoops fan, there were 4 last year.
What does everyone think of the pool B's matchups in the opening rounds???
Christopher Newport @ Lincoln
Lincoln beat Chris. Newport in OT the only time they played this season and it just seems like Lincoln is and will be the better team on Friday...i also think Alvernia will pull out a victory over Messiah and Lincoln should also be able to get by them at home on Saturday stepping right on in to the sweet sixteen.
Villa Julie @ Baruch
i am going to have to go with Baruch most likely winning easily at home and Villa Julie going home after the first round.
Bethany @ Transylvania
i think this one should be a tight game with Bethany bringing a better product to the tournament this year. i believe this game will come down to the final 2 minutes and maybe even the final seconds. the winner most likely gets Wooster on Saturday.
Maryville (Tenn.) vs Trinity (Texas) @ Miss. College
i also think this will be a tight game as well. i think i am going to go with Trinity in this one mainly due to how Maryville has been playing down the stretch.
I think there is a good chance for two B's to get a round one win (maybe even three), and two may also make it to the Sweet Sixteen.
And I missed Huntingdon, bad! :-\ :( >:( :o
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 09:13:06 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 22, 2007, 09:13:06 AM
Wow. I'm not sure where I've been.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2007, 10:48:16 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2007, 10:48:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 10:07:34 PM
Pool B update:
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Team/Conference/Overall/In-region/In-RegionPercentage/In-region games remaining
1) Aurora/NAthCon/15-1/13-1/.929/9 + conf. tourney
2) Westminster PA/PresAC/11-6/10-2**/.833/7 + conf. tourney (Win over Bethany)
3) Maryville/GSAC/13-4/13-3/.813/6 + conf. tourney
4) Lincoln PA/Ind/12-6/9-3/.750/2 (no tourney confirmed)*
5) Bethany/Pres AC/12-5/10-4/.714/6 + conf. tourney (Loss to Westminster PA)
6) Chapman/Ind/11-5/10-5/.667/2 + possible tourney (Assuming Chapman won today over Colorado College)
7) Edgewood/NAthCon/10-5/9-5/.643/9 + conf. tourney
*My bad! I forgot! (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2870.706) Thanks scotsbrod! +1!
** Tip of the hat to wooscotsfan on catching the Westminster-Marietta "in-region" game! (+1 back at you!) ;)
Westminster PA lost to W&J tonight! (They went 1-1 this week!)
I am not sure if they will fall far enough to let Lincoln sneak in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 28, 2007, 03:58:05 AM
Post by: WLCALUM83 on January 28, 2007, 03:58:05 AM
Edgewood and Aurora have kept on winning of late.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 28, 2007, 04:25:17 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 28, 2007, 04:25:17 PM
Ralph:
I know it's selfish on my part, but I need Maryville to loose a few games (perhaps in the regular season, and during their conference tourney). Hopefully FISK can get up for the Maryville game since it's such an intense rivalry and hand the Scots a loss ;D .
Lincoln still has to take care of business for the remainder of the season with a game at NJCU and Ramapo coming to Lincoln.
I know it's selfish on my part, but I need Maryville to loose a few games (perhaps in the regular season, and during their conference tourney). Hopefully FISK can get up for the Maryville game since it's such an intense rivalry and hand the Scots a loss ;D .
Lincoln still has to take care of business for the remainder of the season with a game at NJCU and Ramapo coming to Lincoln.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 04:30:20 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2007, 04:30:20 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on January 28, 2007, 04:25:17 PM
Ralph:
I know it's selfish on my part, but I need Maryville to loose a few games (perhaps in the regular season, and during their conference tourney). Hopefully FISK can get up for the Maryville game since it's such an intense rivalry and hand the Scots a loss ;D .
Lincoln still has to take care of business for the remainder of the season with a game at NJCU and Ramapo coming to Lincoln.
I don't think that that is selfish. I think that that is acceptable sports-fan schadenfreude. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on January 28, 2007, 11:48:08 PM
Post by: gordonmann on January 28, 2007, 11:48:08 PM
Programming note...
D3hoopsNet will broadcast Wednesday's game between Ramapo and Lincoln at 7 PM.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
D3hoopsNet will broadcast Wednesday's game between Ramapo and Lincoln at 7 PM.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 29, 2007, 11:25:13 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 29, 2007, 11:25:13 AM
Gordon:
Thanks for the Ramapo/Lincoln broadcast. I can't get the Lincoln games her in Northern New Jersey so I will be at my computer for this game. I was at the Lincoln/Ramapo game in December when the Lions (without some starters and key reserves) lost to the Roadrunners. Hopefully the Lions will exact some revenge and keep their home court winning streak intact.
I'm planning on going to Jersey City to the Lincoln/NJCU game in February.
Thanks for the Ramapo/Lincoln broadcast. I can't get the Lincoln games her in Northern New Jersey so I will be at my computer for this game. I was at the Lincoln/Ramapo game in December when the Lions (without some starters and key reserves) lost to the Roadrunners. Hopefully the Lions will exact some revenge and keep their home court winning streak intact.
I'm planning on going to Jersey City to the Lincoln/NJCU game in February.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 31, 2007, 10:05:46 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 31, 2007, 10:05:46 PM
Lincoln fefeats Ramapo 73-72 to keep the home court winning streak intact, and a slim chance of making the NCAA's. The win over the Roadrunners evens the series for the season with each squad protecting the Home Court.
Gordon Mann, Thank you so much for an excellent broadcast! The Lions have another NJAC foe coming against the NJCU Gothic Knights in Jersey City, which is another must win for the Lions.
The win over Ramapo should help Lincoln's SOS.
Gordon Mann, Thank you so much for an excellent broadcast! The Lions have another NJAC foe coming against the NJCU Gothic Knights in Jersey City, which is another must win for the Lions.
The win over Ramapo should help Lincoln's SOS.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on January 31, 2007, 11:22:41 PM
Post by: gordonmann on January 31, 2007, 11:22:41 PM
NJLincoln:
Glad we could bring it to you.
I'll miss visiting Lincoln. The SID Rob Knox does a great job there and it's become a great place to watch a game in terms of the environment.
Glad we could bring it to you.
I'll miss visiting Lincoln. The SID Rob Knox does a great job there and it's become a great place to watch a game in terms of the environment.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 31, 2007, 11:33:01 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on January 31, 2007, 11:33:01 PM
Gordon:
You have been a great friend to Lincoln helping to bring notice to a program that was a doormat for many years prior to Coach Yuille. I remember the publicity you gave to Jarrett Kearse (and his story through the D1, D2, and finally the D3 ranks), and then to Kyle Myrick and his remarkable story.
I'll miss Lincoln in d3hoops also, but I'll still be on the board following my daughter's alma mater Salisbury.
By the sounds during the broadcast, it seemed like the crowd was pumped, and the two teams put on quite a show.
You have been a great friend to Lincoln helping to bring notice to a program that was a doormat for many years prior to Coach Yuille. I remember the publicity you gave to Jarrett Kearse (and his story through the D1, D2, and finally the D3 ranks), and then to Kyle Myrick and his remarkable story.
I'll miss Lincoln in d3hoops also, but I'll still be on the board following my daughter's alma mater Salisbury.
By the sounds during the broadcast, it seemed like the crowd was pumped, and the two teams put on quite a show.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2007, 07:28:34 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 01, 2007, 07:28:34 AM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on January 31, 2007, 11:33:01 PMI'll miss Lincoln in d3hoops also, but I'll still be on the board following my daughter's alma mater Salisbury.
It's cool that you're hanging around here even though your alma mater is leaving the D3 ranks, njlincolnlion. It always made me a little sad when a school would evacuate the premises and take their posters with them. The Upper Iowa crew, for example, were good guys and very enthusiastic posters in a room that hasn't been the same since UIU left the IIAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 01, 2007, 10:06:40 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 01, 2007, 10:06:40 PM
Gregory:
Thanks for your comment, It was Salisbury's Football team that led to d3football, which eventually became d3sports with the merger of football and hoops. Besides, I spent a ton of money paying out of state tuition to Salisbury to check out now ;D ! All joking aside d3 sports is really the last bastion of amateur athletics, and I for one have always enjoyed the purity of sport.
Thanks for your comment, It was Salisbury's Football team that led to d3football, which eventually became d3sports with the merger of football and hoops. Besides, I spent a ton of money paying out of state tuition to Salisbury to check out now ;D ! All joking aside d3 sports is really the last bastion of amateur athletics, and I for one have always enjoyed the purity of sport.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 09:24:32 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 02, 2007, 09:24:32 AM
Anyone know who won the Fisk-Rust game?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 08, 2007, 12:06:18 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 08, 2007, 12:06:18 AM
Well NJLincolnlion I am not ever sorry to report that Fisk did not beat Maryville tonight (but they almost did). Two more potentially difficult D3 games for Maryville this weekend and then the tournament, which in effect is two more games unless (gasp) they were to lose the first one. There is a Rust game at home in between. I would not bet on a loss but if there were to be one, probably Sat. vs. LaGrange.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2007, 09:54:41 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2007, 09:54:41 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2007, 10:48:16 PMLincoln appeared in the Mid-Atlantic Regional Rankings this week, but no Pres Ac team did. Also present in the Regional Rankings were Aurora and Maryville.Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 21, 2007, 10:07:34 PM
Pool B update:
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Team/Conference/Overall/In-region/In-RegionPercentage/In-region games remaining
1) Aurora/NAthCon/15-1/13-1/.929/9 + conf. tourney
2) Westminster PA/PresAC/11-6/10-2**/.833/7 + conf. tourney (Win over Bethany)
3) Maryville/GSAC/13-4/13-3/.813/6 + conf. tourney
4) Lincoln PA/Ind/12-6/9-3/.750/2 (no tourney confirmed)*
5) Bethany/Pres AC/12-5/10-4/.714/6 + conf. tourney (Loss to Westminster PA)
6) Chapman/Ind/11-5/10-5/.667/2 + possible tourney (Assuming Chapman won today over Colorado College)
7) Edgewood/NAthCon/10-5/9-5/.643/9 + conf. tourney
*My bad! I forgot! (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2870.706) Thanks scotsbrod! +1!
** Tip of the hat to wooscotsfan on catching the Westminster-Marietta "in-region" game! (+1 back at you!) ;)
Westminster PA lost to W&J tonight! (They went 1-1 this week!)
I am not sure if they will fall far enough to let Lincoln sneak in.
I think that Lincoln has a chance to make the playoffs as either a Pool B or a Pool C if the Pres AC gets a representative into the tourney as a Pool B.
More on Sunday...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2007, 10:32:50 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2007, 10:32:50 AM
Hey has anyone thought about St. Joe's of Maine in this debate?
They started off slow, but have been doing pretty well lately.
They're regional record is only 9-5 because they've played too many provisionals, but they do have a 14 point win over Husson and a (currently) 13 point win over Maine Maritime. Most of their losses are to good teams.
Their current SOSI is 9.08. They've got four in-region games left and only the one with Bowdoin should be tough. Worst case they'll probably finish 12-6, best case 13-5 with a good shot at a 9 QOWI number.
I'm not pushing them, but they should probably be in the running at this point. This is certainly the kind of team that can come out of nowhere and get a bid when we least expect it.
They started off slow, but have been doing pretty well lately.
They're regional record is only 9-5 because they've played too many provisionals, but they do have a 14 point win over Husson and a (currently) 13 point win over Maine Maritime. Most of their losses are to good teams.
Their current SOSI is 9.08. They've got four in-region games left and only the one with Bowdoin should be tough. Worst case they'll probably finish 12-6, best case 13-5 with a good shot at a 9 QOWI number.
I'm not pushing them, but they should probably be in the running at this point. This is certainly the kind of team that can come out of nowhere and get a bid when we least expect it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 12:32:43 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 12:32:43 PM
I have St. Joe's of Maine considerably lower.
at Bridgewater State • L .714 7
vs. Maine-Farmington • W .400 10
at Husson • L .850 7
at Maine-Presque Isle • W .143 8
vs. Framingham State • W .450 10
at Maine-Farmington • L .400 3
vs. Husson • W .850 14
vs. Colby • L .611 4
at Thomas • W .125 9
vs. Bates • L .810 6
at Maine Maritime • W .500 13
at Southern Maine • W .250 9
vs. Thomas • W .125 8
at U. of New England • W .182 9
Total 117 in 14 games, QOWI 8.357
at Bridgewater State • L .714 7
vs. Maine-Farmington • W .400 10
at Husson • L .850 7
at Maine-Presque Isle • W .143 8
vs. Framingham State • W .450 10
at Maine-Farmington • L .400 3
vs. Husson • W .850 14
vs. Colby • L .611 4
at Thomas • W .125 9
vs. Bates • L .810 6
at Maine Maritime • W .500 13
at Southern Maine • W .250 9
vs. Thomas • W .125 8
at U. of New England • W .182 9
Total 117 in 14 games, QOWI 8.357
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 09, 2007, 01:04:55 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 09, 2007, 01:04:55 PM
I've got them at 8.429 (add 1 more point for the road game at UMPI).
They'd have to win out to 13-5 to have a chance.
I've got them 8th, behind Aurora, Maryville, Lincoln, Westminster, Bethany, Edgewood, and Dominican. Getting to 5th is pretty easy, but the climb to 3rd is really steep.
They'd have to win out to 13-5 to have a chance.
I've got them 8th, behind Aurora, Maryville, Lincoln, Westminster, Bethany, Edgewood, and Dominican. Getting to 5th is pretty easy, but the climb to 3rd is really steep.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2007, 01:13:08 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2007, 01:13:08 PM
I just know when it comes to B's, they can get awfully crazy, but you're right, having only three slots this year, makes the whole process quite selective.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 01:16:52 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 01:16:52 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 09, 2007, 01:04:55 PM
I've got them at 8.429 (add 1 more point for the road game at UMPI).
Yep. Any luck finding that 2001-02 scores database? I'd really like to get that from you.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 01:38:24 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 01:38:24 PM
Alright, here we go. First releaseable run of QOWIs for us under our new system. I am sure there are some bugs, please let me know.
Overall | In reg. | Team | Points | Region Win% | Overall |
| 1 | 1 | Amherst | 11.909 | 1.000 (22-0) | 23-0 |
| 2 | 1 | UW-Stevens Point | 11.842 | 0.947 (18-1) | 19-2 |
| 3 | 1 | Ramapo | 11.105 | 0.842 (16-3) | 17-5 |
| 4 | 1 | Lake Erie | 11.000 | 1.000 (17-0) | 21-1 |
| 5 | 1 | Washington U. | 10.824 | 0.824 (14-3) | 16-3 |
| 6 | 2 | Salem State | 10.800 | 0.900 (18-2) | 18-2 |
| 7 | 1 | St. Lawrence | 10.800 | 0.850 (17-3) | 18-3 |
| 8 | 3 | Worcester Polytech | 10.778 | 0.889 (16-2) | 18-2 |
| 9 | 4 | Trinity (Conn.) | 10.722 | 0.833 (15-3) | 19-3 |
| 10 | 1 | Mississippi College | 10.667 | 0.944 (17-1) | 19-2 |
| 11 | 1 | Messiah | 10.625 | 0.813 (13-3) | 16-5 |
| 12 | 5 | Rhode Island College | 10.619 | 0.857 (18-3) | 18-3 |
| 13 | 6 | Bates | 10.571 | 0.810 (17-4) | 18-4 |
| 14 | 2 | DePauw | 10.563 | 0.875 (14-2) | 17-4 |
| 15 | 3 | Virginia Wesleyan | 10.545 | 0.864 (19-3) | 20-3 |
| 16 | 2 | Augustana | 10.524 | 0.857 (18-3) | 18-4 |
| 17 | 3 | Chicago | 10.500 | 0.778 (14-4) | 16-4 |
| 18 | 2 | St. Thomas | 10.435 | 0.870 (20-3) | 20-3 |
| 19 | 2 | Brockport State | 10.300 | 0.800 (16-4) | 17-4 |
| 20 | 3 | St. John's | 10.300 | 0.900 (18-2) | 18-5 |
| 21 | 4 | UW-Oshkosh | 10.263 | 0.789 (15-4) | 18-4 |
| 22 | 2 | Johns Hopkins | 10.250 | 0.900 (18-2) | 19-3 |
| 23 | 4 | Aurora | 10.250 | 0.900 (18-2) | 20-2 |
| 24 | 7 | Keene State | 10.211 | 0.789 (15-4) | 18-4 |
| 25 | 3 | Rochester | 10.211 | 0.789 (15-4) | 15-5 |
| 26 | 2 | John Carroll | 10.211 | 0.737 (14-5) | 15-7 |
| 27 | 3 | Catholic | 10.200 | 0.750 (15-5) | 16-5 |
| 28 | 5 | Whitworth | 10.167 | 0.889 (16-2) | 19-2 |
| 29 | 4 | Utica | 10.158 | 0.842 (16-3) | 17-3 |
| 30 | 5 | New York University | 10.158 | 0.789 (15-4) | 16-4 |
| 31 | 3 | Wittenberg | 10.118 | 0.824 (14-3) | 19-3 |
| 32 | 5 | Bluffton | 10.059 | 0.765 (13-4) | 17-5 |
| 33 | 4 | Ohio Northern | 10.059 | 0.706 (12-5) | 17-5 |
| 34 | 4 | Hood | 10.048 | 0.762 (16-5) | 17-6 |
| 35 | 2 | Stevens | 10.045 | 0.818 (18-4) | 19-4 |
| 36 | 4 | Guilford | 10.000 | 0.842 (16-3) | 17-3 |
| 37 | 5 | Mary Hardin-Baylor | 9.955 | 0.864 (19-3) | 19-3 |
| 38 | 3 | Richard Stockton | 9.944 | 0.722 (13-5) | 16-7 |
| 39 | 8 | Brandeis | 9.850 | 0.700 (14-6) | 14-6 |
| 40 | 6 | St. John Fisher | 9.850 | 0.750 (15-5) | 16-5 |
| 41 | 6 | Coe | 9.842 | 0.737 (14-5) | 16-5 |
| 42 | 6 | Averett | 9.824 | 0.765 (13-4) | 15-6 |
| 43 | 4 | Manhattanville | 9.818 | 0.773 (17-5) | 18-5 |
| 44 | 7 | Maryville (Tenn.) | 9.789 | 0.842 (16-3) | 16-5 |
| 45 | 7 | UW-La Crosse | 9.789 | 0.684 (13-6) | 15-7 |
| 46 | 5 | Lincoln | 9.769 | 0.769 (10-3) | 14-7 |
| 47 | 9 | Tufts | 9.762 | 0.619 (13-8) | 13-8 |
| 48 | 5 | Wooster | 9.750 | 0.875 (14-2) | 19-3 |
| 49 | 6 | King's | 9.714 | 0.714 (15-6) | 15-7 |
| 50 | 8 | Loras | 9.706 | 0.765 (13-4) | 15-6 |
| 51 | 7 | Scranton | 9.700 | 0.750 (15-5) | 17-5 |
| 52 | 9 | Puget Sound | 9.688 | 0.813 (13-3) | 16-4 |
| 53 | 5 | New Jersey City | 9.684 | 0.667 (12-6) | 15-7 |
| 54 | 8 | Alvernia | 9.684 | 0.895 (17-2) | 18-4 |
| 55 | 6 | Elmhurst | 9.647 | 0.765 (13-4) | 17-4 |
| 56 | 6 | Hope | 9.615 | 0.846 (11-2) | 18-3 |
| 57 | 10 | Husson | 9.600 | 0.850 (17-3) | 17-5 |
| 58 | 10 | Occidental | 9.583 | 0.750 (9-3) | 14-5 |
| 59 | 8 | Centre | 9.500 | 0.714 (10-4) | 16-4 |
| 60 | 7 | Plattsburgh State | 9.500 | 0.750 (12-4) | 14-6 |
| 61 | 9 | York (Pa.) | 9.478 | 0.652 (15-8) | 15-8 |
| 62 | 6 | Rowan | 9.471 | 0.706 (12-5) | 17-5 |
| 63 | 7 | Manchester | 9.444 | 0.611 (11-7) | 14-7 |
| 64 | 11 | Babson | 9.429 | 0.619 (13-8) | 14-8 |
| 65 | 7 | Rutgers-Newark | 9.429 | 0.667 (14-7) | 16-7 |
| 66 | 8 | Hamilton | 9.375 | 0.688 (11-5) | 14-5 |
| 67 | 8 | Wheaton (Ill.) | 9.375 | 0.625 (10-6) | 14-7 |
| 68 | 7 | Carnegie Mellon | 9.353 | 0.647 (11-6) | 12-7 |
| 69 | 12 | Bridgewater State | 9.333 | 0.714 (15-6) | 15-6 |
| 70 | 11 | Cal Lutheran | 9.333 | 0.643 (9-5) | 15-5 |
| 71 | 9 | McMurry | 9.316 | 0.789 (15-4) | 16-6 |
| 72 | 10 | Ursinus | 9.316 | 0.789 (15-4) | 16-6 |
| 73 | 11 | Mary Washington | 9.316 | 0.684 (13-6) | 14-7 |
| 74 | 9 | Carthage | 9.313 | 0.625 (10-6) | 14-7 |
| 75 | 10 | Grinnell | 9.211 | 0.684 (13-6) | 14-6 |
| 76 | 12 | Lewis and Clark | 9.200 | 0.733 (11-4) | 15-6 |
| 77 | 13 | Bethel | 9.190 | 0.714 (15-6) | 16-6 |
| 78 | 11 | Mt. St. Joseph | 9.167 | 0.611 (11-7) | 11-10 |
| 79 | 8 | William Paterson | 9.136 | 0.636 (14-8) | 14-9 |
| 80 | 13 | Elms | 9.100 | 0.684 (13-6) | 14-6 |
| 81 | 8 | Capital | 9.095 | 0.667 (14-7) | 14-7 |
| 82 | 14 | Redlands | 9.083 | 0.750 (9-3) | 13-6 |
| 83 | 9 | Baldwin-Wallace | 9.059 | 0.647 (11-6) | 14-8 |
| 84 | 12 | DeSales | 9.053 | 0.737 (14-5) | 16-6 |
| 85 | 14 | Lasell | 9.048 | 0.619 (13-8) | 13-8 |
| 86 | 15 | UW-Whitewater | 9.045 | 0.636 (14-8) | 14-8 |
| 87 | 15 | Western New England | 9.000 | 0.682 (15-7) | 15-7 |
| 88 | 13 | Susquehanna | 8.950 | 0.600 (12-8) | 14-8 |
| 89 | 10 | Millsaps | 8.938 | 0.688 (11-5) | 13-8 |
| 90 | 16 | Buena Vista | 8.938 | 0.625 (10-6) | 13-7 |
| 91 | 10 | Westminster (Pa.) | 8.938 | 0.813 (13-3) | 15-7 |
| 92 | 11 | Calvin | 8.923 | 0.615 (8-5) | 13-8 |
| 93 | 14 | Villa Julie | 8.900 | 0.700 (14-6) | 15-7 |
| 94 | 16 | Gordon | 8.889 | 0.667 (12-6) | 15-6 |
| 95 | 9 | SUNY-Farmingdale | 8.889 | 0.667 (12-6) | 14-7 |
| 96 | 15 | Marymount | 8.867 | 0.533 (8-7) | 12-9 |
| 97 | 12 | Heidelberg | 8.857 | 0.619 (13-8) | 13-9 |
| 98 | 11 | Texas-Dallas | 8.850 | 0.750 (15-5) | 17-5 |
| 99 | 13 | Penn State-Behrend | 8.850 | 0.750 (15-5) | 16-5 |
| 100 | 12 | Greensboro | 8.833 | 0.722 (13-5) | 16-6 |
| 101 | 12 | Edgewood | 8.789 | 0.632 (12-7) | 13-7 |
| 102 | 16 | Juniata | 8.778 | 0.667 (12-6) | 13-9 |
| 103 | 17 | FDU-Florham | 8.778 | 0.611 (11-7) | 15-7 |
| 104 | 13 | Defiance | 8.778 | 0.667 (12-6) | 15-6 |
| 105 | 9 | Clarkson | 8.762 | 0.571 (12-9) | 12-9 |
| 106 | 14 | Transylvania | 8.762 | 0.619 (13-8) | 14-8 |
| 107 | 10 | Geneseo State | 8.684 | 0.579 (11-8) | 12-9 |
| 108 | 17 | Middlebury | 8.682 | 0.591 (13-9) | 13-9 |
| 109 | 18 | Colby | 8.667 | 0.611 (11-7) | 12-10 |
| 110 | 14 | Wilmington | 8.667 | 0.571 (12-9) | 13-9 |
| 111 | 11 | Vassar | 8.647 | 0.647 (11-6) | 12-7 |
| 112 | 17 | UW-Platteville | 8.647 | 0.588 (10-7) | 12-9 |
| 113 | 18 | Pomona-Pitzer | 8.636 | 0.636 (7-4) | 12-7 |
| 114 | 12 | Rochester Tech | 8.611 | 0.556 (10-8) | 12-9 |
| 115 | 13 | Ithaca | 8.563 | 0.563 (9-7) | 11-9 |
| 116 | 19 | Westfield State | 8.526 | 0.579 (11-8) | 13-9 |
| 117 | 20 | Mass-Dartmouth | 8.500 | 0.600 (12-8) | 12-10 |
| 118 | 18 | Baptist Bible | 8.500 | 0.722 (13-5) | 14-6 |
| 119 | 15 | Dominican | 8.500 | 0.600 (12-8) | 13-8 |
| 120 | 16 | Hanover | 8.471 | 0.588 (10-7) | 12-10 |
| 121 | 21 | Williams | 8.450 | 0.500 (10-10) | 11-11 |
| 122 | 15 | Otterbein | 8.450 | 0.550 (11-9) | 12-10 |
| 123 | 10 | Kean | 8.444 | 0.556 (10-8) | 13-9 |
| 124 | 11 | SUNY-Old Westbury | 8.444 | 0.556 (10-8) | 13-9 |
| 125 | 17 | Carroll | 8.444 | 0.611 (11-7) | 11-8 |
| 126 | 16 | Ohio Wesleyan | 8.444 | 0.611 (11-7) | 14-8 |
| 127 | 14 | Oneonta State | 8.438 | 0.563 (9-7) | 10-11 |
| 128 | 22 | St. Joseph's (Maine) | 8.429 | 0.643 (9-5) | 14-5 |
| 129 | 19 | Simpson | 8.421 | 0.579 (11-8) | 15-8 |
| 130 | 15 | Oswego State | 8.389 | 0.556 (10-8) | 11-10 |
| 131 | 18 | Ripon | 8.368 | 0.579 (11-8) | 12-8 |
| 132 | 13 | Trinity (Texas) | 8.353 | 0.529 (9-8) | 11-10 |
| 133 | 19 | Lake Forest | 8.333 | 0.611 (11-7) | 12-8 |
| 134 | 17 | Tri-State | 8.308 | 0.692 (9-4) | 14-6 |
| 135 | 14 | Oglethorpe | 8.300 | 0.600 (12-8) | 13-8 |
| 136 | 23 | Wentworth Tech | 8.300 | 0.650 (13-7) | 13-8 |
| 137 | 15 | LaGrange | 8.286 | 0.643 (9-5) | 14-7 |
| 138 | 16 | SUNYIT | 8.278 | 0.611 (11-7) | 13-8 |
| 139 | 18 | Bethany | 8.278 | 0.722 (13-5) | 16-6 |
| 140 | 20 | Gustavus Adolphus | 8.238 | 0.619 (13-8) | 13-9 |
| 141 | 20 | Fontbonne | 8.214 | 0.571 (8-6) | 11-9 |
| 142 | 12 | Kings Point | 8.211 | 0.632 (12-7) | 13-9 |
| 143 | 24 | Bowdoin | 8.200 | 0.600 (12-8) | 13-8 |
| 144 | 25 | Western Connecticut | 8.200 | 0.600 (12-8) | 13-9 |
| 145 | 19 | Lebanon Valley | 8.200 | 0.550 (11-9) | 13-9 |
| 146 | 21 | Franklin | 8.190 | 0.571 (12-9) | 13-9 |
| 147 | 20 | Chestnut Hill | 8.188 | 0.688 (11-5) | 14-8 |
| 148 | 22 | North Central | 8.154 | 0.462 (6-7) | 12-9 |
| 149 | 26 | Endicott | 8.150 | 0.526 (10-9) | 10-9 |
| 150 | 27 | MIT | 8.143 | 0.524 (11-10) | 12-10 |
| 151 | 21 | Pacific | 8.133 | 0.533 (8-7) | 10-11 |
| 152 | 23 | Lakeland | 8.111 | 0.556 (10-8) | 12-9 |
| 153 | 28 | Emerson | 8.105 | 0.632 (12-7) | 13-8 |
| 154 | 13 | York (N.Y.) | 8.105 | 0.684 (13-6) | 15-9 |
| 155 | 14 | New Jersey | 8.105 | 0.421 (8-11) | 11-12 |
| 156 | 21 | St. Mary's (Md.) | 8.100 | 0.500 (10-10) | 11-10 |
| 157 | 24 | North Park | 8.100 | 0.550 (11-9) | 13-9 |
| 158 | 16 | Emory | 8.059 | 0.412 (7-10) | 8-12 |
| 159 | 17 | Union | 8.059 | 0.588 (10-7) | 10-10 |
| 160 | 29 | Eastern Connecticut | 8.056 | 0.556 (10-8) | 12-9 |
| 161 | 25 | Lawrence | 8.056 | 0.500 (9-9) | 11-9 |
| 162 | 18 | RPI | 8.053 | 0.526 (10-9) | 11-9 |
| 163 | 22 | Eastern | 8.053 | 0.684 (13-6) | 15-8 |
| 164 | 23 | Neumann | 8.053 | 0.526 (10-9) | 12-10 |
| 165 | 30 | Roger Williams | 8.050 | 0.650 (13-7) | 14-7 |
| 166 | 15 | St. Joseph's (L.I.) | 8.050 | 0.600 (12-8) | 13-8 |
| 167 | 24 | Widener | 8.050 | 0.500 (10-10) | 11-10 |
| 168 | 17 | Hendrix | 8.000 | 0.571 (8-6) | 13-7 |
| 169 | 16 | Yeshiva | 8.000 | 0.600 (12-8) | 14-8 |
| 170 | 26 | Eureka | 8.000 | 0.588 (10-7) | 13-7 |
| 171 | 31 | Springfield | 7.952 | 0.429 (9-12) | 10-12 |
| 172 | 25 | Gwynedd-Mercy | 7.947 | 0.526 (10-9) | 11-11 |
| 173 | 26 | Wilkes | 7.947 | 0.474 (9-10) | 10-10 |
| 174 | 18 | Southwestern | 7.941 | 0.471 (8-9) | 9-12 |
| 175 | 22 | Chapman | 7.938 | 0.688 (11-5) | 15-5 |
| 176 | 32 | Rivier | 7.905 | 0.667 (14-7) | 14-8 |
| 177 | 19 | LeTourneau | 7.900 | 0.600 (12-8) | 13-8 |
| 178 | 33 | Norwich | 7.895 | 0.556 (10-8) | 11-9 |
| 179 | 27 | Salisbury | 7.850 | 0.500 (10-10) | 12-10 |
| 180 | 28 | Lycoming | 7.824 | 0.529 (9-8) | 11-11 |
| 181 | 27 | Webster | 7.824 | 0.529 (9-8) | 12-9 |
| 182 | 23 | Claremont-Mudd-Scripps | 7.818 | 0.545 (6-5) | 12-8 |
| 183 | 29 | McDaniel | 7.810 | 0.476 (10-11) | 10-11 |
| 184 | 28 | Wisconsin Lutheran | 7.800 | 0.550 (11-9) | 12-10 |
| 185 | 19 | Albion | 7.800 | 0.467 (7-8) | 7-14 |
| 186 | 24 | George Fox | 7.750 | 0.500 (6-6) | 11-10 |
| 187 | 30 | Albright | 7.737 | 0.368 (7-12) | 9-12 |
| 188 | 29 | Monmouth | 7.733 | 0.533 (8-7) | 10-10 |
| 189 | 20 | Hardin-Simmons | 7.727 | 0.545 (12-10) | 12-10 |
| 190 | 31 | Haverford | 7.706 | 0.529 (9-8) | 10-11 |
| 191 | 30 | Milwaukee Engineering | 7.706 | 0.625 (10-6) | 14-9 |
| 192 | 21 | Christopher Newport | 7.688 | 0.563 (9-7) | 13-8 |
| 193 | 31 | Illinois Wesleyan | 7.688 | 0.438 (7-9) | 10-11 |
| 194 | 25 | Carleton | 7.667 | 0.500 (9-9) | 9-13 |
| 195 | 32 | MacMurray | 7.647 | 0.529 (9-8) | 12-8 |
| 196 | 32 | Elizabethtown | 7.611 | 0.389 (7-11) | 8-13 |
| 197 | 22 | Methodist | 7.600 | 0.400 (6-9) | 9-12 |
| 198 | 34 | Wheaton (Mass.) | 7.571 | 0.476 (10-11) | 10-11 |
| 199 | 17 | Montclair State | 7.563 | 0.375 (6-10) | 10-11 |
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 01:39:20 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2007, 01:39:20 PM
| Overall | In reg. | Team | Points | Region Win% | Overall |
| 200 | 23 | Emory and Henry | 7.556 | 0.556 (10-8) | 13-8 |
| 201 | 33 | Moravian | 7.550 | 0.450 (9-11) | 10-12 |
| 202 | 26 | Willamette | 7.533 | 0.400 (6-9) | 9-12 |
| 203 | 34 | Drew | 7.526 | 0.421 (8-11) | 9-12 |
| 204 | 33 | Marian | 7.500 | 0.500 (10-10) | 11-10 |
| 205 | 20 | Muskingum | 7.500 | 0.500 (10-10) | 11-10 |
| 206 | 34 | St. Norbert | 7.471 | 0.471 (8-9) | 9-11 |
| 207 | 21 | Adrian | 7.462 | 0.615 (8-5) | 8-12 |
| 208 | 35 | Penn State-Altoona | 7.450 | 0.400 (8-12) | 9-13 |
| 209 | 24 | Louisiana College | 7.444 | 0.500 (9-9) | 9-13 |
| 210 | 35 | Connecticut College | 7.400 | 0.450 (9-11) | 11-11 |
| 211 | 36 | Pitt-Bradford | 7.364 | 0.500 (11-11) | 11-11 |
| 212 | 25 | Rust | 7.357 | 0.429 (6-8) | 8-12 |
| 213 | 35 | Rose-Hulman | 7.350 | 0.350 (7-13) | 8-15 |
| 214 | 26 | Hampden-Sydney | 7.333 | 0.500 (9-9) | 12-9 |
| 215 | 36 | Lesley | 7.300 | 0.500 (10-10) | 11-10 |
| 216 | 27 | Piedmont | 7.294 | 0.471 (8-9) | 12-10 |
| 217 | 37 | Swarthmore | 7.294 | 0.529 (9-8) | 10-12 |
| 218 | 37 | Nichols | 7.286 | 0.550 (11-9) | 11-9 |
| 219 | 19 | Alfred | 7.278 | 0.389 (7-11) | 7-13 |
| 220 | 38 | Plymouth State | 7.273 | 0.409 (9-13) | 9-13 |
| 221 | 20 | Buffalo State | 7.250 | 0.375 (6-10) | 9-11 |
| 222 | 27 | UW-Stout | 7.250 | 0.438 (7-9) | 12-10 |
| 223 | 38 | Immaculata | 7.238 | 0.429 (9-12) | 9-13 |
| 224 | 36 | Blackburn | 7.235 | 0.471 (8-9) | 8-12 |
| 225 | 28 | North Carolina Wesleyan | 7.231 | 0.385 (5-8) | 10-10 |
| 226 | 39 | Clark | 7.211 | 0.421 (8-11) | 9-12 |
| 227 | 22 | Mount Union | 7.211 | 0.316 (6-13) | 8-14 |
| 228 | 29 | Roanoke | 7.188 | 0.500 (8-8) | 11-10 |
| 229 | 23 | Frostburg State | 7.182 | 0.455 (10-12) | 10-12 |
| 230 | 30 | Randolph-Macon | 7.176 | 0.471 (8-9) | 13-9 |
| 231 | 40 | Newbury | 7.158 | 0.526 (10-9) | 12-9 |
| 232 | 41 | Coast Guard | 7.158 | 0.474 (9-10) | 11-11 |
| 233 | 37 | Greenville | 7.133 | 0.533 (8-7) | 10-10 |
| 234 | 28 | Central | 7.133 | 0.400 (6-9) | 8-12 |
| 235 | 29 | UW-Eau Claire | 7.118 | 0.412 (7-10) | 10-12 |
| 236 | 42 | Mass-Boston | 7.105 | 0.368 (7-12) | 8-12 |
| 237 | 39 | Gettysburg | 7.105 | 0.474 (9-10) | 9-12 |
| 238 | 43 | Framingham State | 7.100 | 0.450 (9-11) | 9-12 |
| 239 | 40 | Arcadia | 7.091 | 0.409 (9-13) | 10-13 |
| 240 | 31 | University of Dallas | 7.059 | 0.529 (9-8) | 10-11 |
| 241 | 21 | New Paltz State | 7.059 | 0.471 (8-9) | 10-10 |
| 242 | 38 | Benedictine | 7.053 | 0.526 (10-9) | 11-10 |
| 243 | 44 | Curry | 7.050 | 0.450 (9-11) | 9-12 |
| 244 | 30 | St. Olaf | 7.045 | 0.500 (11-11) | 11-12 |
| 245 | 45 | Castleton State | 7.000 | 0.500 (9-9) | 10-10 |
| 246 | 22 | Potsdam State | 7.000 | 0.389 (7-11) | 8-12 |
| 247 | 23 | Cortland State | 7.000 | 0.381 (8-13) | 8-13 |
| 248 | 39 | Westminster (Mo.) | 7.000 | 0.500 (7-7) | 11-8 |
| 249 | 24 | Allegheny | 7.000 | 0.474 (9-10) | 9-12 |
| 250 | 41 | Misericordia | 6.952 | 0.381 (8-13) | 9-13 |
| 251 | 24 | Nazareth | 6.947 | 0.368 (7-12) | 8-13 |
| 252 | 31 | Wartburg | 6.944 | 0.389 (7-11) | 10-13 |
| 253 | 32 | Dubuque | 6.941 | 0.529 (9-8) | 11-10 |
| 254 | 32 | Ferrum | 6.929 | 0.429 (6-8) | 9-13 |
| 255 | 42 | Wesley | 6.909 | 0.455 (10-12) | 10-13 |
| 256 | 46 | Wesleyan | 6.900 | 0.350 (7-13) | 7-14 |
| 257 | 47 | Emmanuel | 6.889 | 0.412 (7-10) | 8-13 |
| 258 | 40 | Millikin | 6.889 | 0.389 (7-11) | 9-12 |
| 259 | 25 | Grove City | 6.882 | 0.471 (8-9) | 12-10 |
| 260 | 25 | Hilbert | 6.857 | 0.524 (11-10) | 11-11 |
| 261 | 26 | Waynesburg | 6.857 | 0.429 (6-8) | 10-11 |
| 262 | 27 | Earlham | 6.857 | 0.381 (8-13) | 8-14 |
| 263 | 33 | Martin Luther | 6.846 | 0.538 (7-6) | 9-11 |
| 264 | 34 | Pacific Lutheran | 6.846 | 0.385 (5-8) | 7-12 |
| 265 | 18 | Mount St. Mary | 6.833 | ||
| 266 | 41 | Anderson | 6.833 | 0.333 (6-12) | 9-14 |
| 267 | 19 | Staten Island | 6.773 | 0.455 (10-12) | 11-12 |
| 268 | 26 | Hartwick | 6.750 | 0.400 (8-12) | 9-12 |
| 269 | 35 | Hamline | 6.737 | 0.421 (8-11) | 8-14 |
| 270 | 33 | Concordia-Austin | 6.722 | 0.444 (8-10) | 9-13 |
| 271 | 48 | Maine Maritime | 6.722 | 0.500 (9-9) | 11-10 |
| 272 | 36 | UW-River Falls | 6.722 | 0.333 (6-12) | 10-13 |
| 273 | 49 | Colby-Sawyer | 6.714 | 0.450 (9-11) | 9-11 |
| 274 | 50 | Southern Vermont | 6.706 | 0.412 (7-10) | 7-11 |
| 275 | 51 | Salve Regina | 6.700 | 0.474 (9-10) | 10-10 |
| 276 | 27 | Keuka | 6.688 | 0.438 (7-9) | 9-11 |
| 277 | 28 | Washington and Jefferson | 6.684 | 0.421 (8-11) | 10-12 |
| 278 | 34 | Shenandoah | 6.667 | 0.333 (5-10) | 7-13 |
| 279 | 43 | Goucher | 6.667 | 0.278 (5-13) | 7-15 |
| 280 | 28 | Cazenovia | 6.632 | 0.421 (8-11) | 11-11 |
| 281 | 35 | East Texas Baptist | 6.611 | 0.333 (6-12) | 7-16 |
| 282 | 29 | Hobart | 6.611 | 0.333 (6-12) | 7-13 |
| 283 | 37 | Luther | 6.533 | 0.267 (4-11) | 5-16 |
| 284 | 36 | Washington and Lee | 6.529 | 0.412 (7-10) | 10-10 |
| 285 | 20 | Hunter | 6.524 | 0.476 (10-11) | 12-11 |
| 286 | 44 | Delaware Valley | 6.524 | 0.238 (5-16) | 5-17 |
| 287 | 37 | Austin | 6.500 | 0.278 (5-13) | 5-14 |
| 288 | 38 | Macalester | 6.500 | 0.389 (7-11) | 9-13 |
| 289 | 52 | Worcester State | 6.450 | 0.400 (8-12) | 9-13 |
| 290 | 45 | Franklin and Marshall | 6.429 | 0.333 (7-14) | 7-15 |
| 291 | 39 | St. Mary's (Minn.) | 6.421 | 0.316 (6-13) | 6-15 |
| 292 | 21 | CCNY | 6.409 | 0.455 (10-12) | 11-12 |
| 293 | 40 | Augsburg | 6.389 | 0.278 (5-13) | 8-14 |
| 294 | 41 | Whittier | 6.357 | 0.214 (3-11) | 9-12 |
| 295 | 38 | Sul Ross State | 6.333 | 0.333 (6-12) | 6-15 |
| 296 | 39 | Sewanee | 6.333 | 0.278 (5-13) | 5-15 |
| 297 | 42 | Minnesota-Morris | 6.333 | 0.333 (3-6) | 6-14 |
| 298 | 30 | Medaille | 6.316 | 0.421 (8-11) | 9-13 |
| 299 | 53 | New England College | 6.286 | 0.429 (9-12) | 9-12 |
| 300 | 22 | Rutgers-Camden | 6.286 | 0.143 (3-18) | 5-18 |
| 301 | 46 | Keystone | 6.278 | 0.444 (8-10) | 11-11 |
| 302 | 54 | Maine-Farmington | 6.250 | 0.400 (8-12) | 8-13 |
| 303 | 47 | Muhlenberg | 6.200 | 0.350 (7-13) | 7-14 |
| 304 | 29 | Kenyon | 6.200 | 0.400 (8-12) | 9-13 |
| 305 | 40 | Rhodes | 6.176 | 0.353 (6-11) | 8-12 |
| 306 | 42 | Concordia (Wis.) | 6.176 | 0.353 (6-11) | 6-15 |
| 307 | 23 | Baruch | 6.158 | 0.474 (9-10) | 9-14 |
| 308 | 43 | Cornell | 6.158 | 0.263 (5-14) | 7-14 |
| 309 | 44 | Whitman | 6.154 | 0.231 (3-10) | 7-14 |
| 310 | 45 | La Verne | 6.154 | 0.231 (3-10) | 5-16 |
| 311 | 55 | Southern Maine | 6.150 | 0.250 (5-15) | 6-15 |
| 312 | 41 | University of the Ozarks | 6.095 | 0.333 (7-14) | 7-15 |
| 313 | 30 | Olivet | 6.071 | 0.214 (3-11) | 5-16 |
| 314 | 42 | Texas-Tyler | 6.056 | 0.278 (5-13) | 6-15 |
| 315 | 48 | Dickinson | 6.053 | 0.316 (6-13) | 7-14 |
| 316 | 56 | Suffolk | 6.045 | 0.318 (7-15) | 7-15 |
| 317 | 43 | Illinois College | 6.000 | 0.316 (6-13) | 8-13 |
| 318 | 31 | Marietta | 6.000 | 0.200 (4-16) | 5-17 |
| 319 | 57 | Johnson and Wales | 5.952 | 0.333 (7-14) | 7-14 |
| 320 | 43 | Howard Payne | 5.944 | 0.278 (5-13) | 5-17 |
| 321 | 32 | Wabash | 5.944 | 0.333 (6-12) | 9-13 |
| 322 | 31 | Fredonia State | 5.941 | 0.235 (4-13) | 5-15 |
| 323 | 44 | Clarke | 5.929 | 0.286 (4-10) | 6-17 |
| 324 | 46 | St. Scholastica | 5.917 | 0.462 (6-7) | 9-11 |
| 325 | 49 | La Roche | 5.905 | 0.333 (7-14) | 7-14 |
| 326 | 33 | Kalamazoo | 5.842 | 0.211 (4-15) | 4-16 |
| 327 | 47 | UC Santa Cruz | 5.750 | 0.167 (2-10) | 2-17 |
| 328 | 58 | Fitchburg State | 5.700 | 0.250 (5-15) | 5-15 |
| 329 | 50 | Penn State-Berks | 5.688 | 0.313 (5-11) | 5-15 |
| 330 | 24 | Medgar Evers | 5.667 | 0.286 (6-15) | 8-15 |
| 331 | 59 | Mount Ida | 5.647 | 0.176 (3-14) | 5-15 |
| 332 | 45 | Maryville (Mo.) | 5.647 | 0.235 (4-13) | 5-15 |
| 333 | 51 | Philadelphia Bible | 5.625 | 0.250 (4-12) | 7-14 |
| 334 | 48 | Linfield | 5.615 | 0.231 (3-10) | 7-14 |
| 335 | 44 | Schreiner | 5.600 | 0.250 (5-15) | 5-17 |
| 336 | 25 | John Jay | 5.545 | 0.318 (7-15) | 7-17 |
| 337 | 34 | Hiram | 5.545 | 0.318 (7-15) | 7-15 |
| 338 | 49 | Concordia-Moorhead | 5.529 | 0.176 (3-14) | 3-19 |
| 339 | 26 | New York City Tech | 5.500 | 0.250 (6-18) | 6-18 |
| 340 | 46 | Beloit | 5.474 | 0.158 (3-16) | 4-17 |
| 341 | 45 | Bridgewater (Va.) | 5.375 | 0.250 (4-12) | 7-14 |
| 342 | 46 | Fisk | 5.364 | 0.091 (1-10) | 4-16 |
| 343 | 47 | Eastern Mennonite | 5.353 | 0.235 (4-13) | 7-13 |
| 344 | 27 | SUNY-Maritime | 5.333 | 0.167 (3-15) | 3-20 |
| 345 | 50 | Nebraska Wesleyan | 5.333 | 0.333 (2-4) | 5-17 |
| 346 | 48 | Texas Lutheran | 5.300 | 0.200 (4-16) | 4-17 |
| 347 | 49 | Thomas More | 5.250 | 0.125 (2-14) | 2-20 |
| 348 | 60 | Thomas | 5.250 | 0.125 (2-14) | 4-17 |
| 349 | 35 | Thiel | 5.250 | 0.250 (4-12) | 5-16 |
| 350 | 61 | Daniel Webster | 5.222 | 0.278 (5-13) | 5-13 |
| 351 | 52 | Washington College | 5.158 | 0.158 (3-16) | 3-18 |
| 352 | 47 | Knox | 5.118 | 0.235 (4-13) | 5-16 |
| 353 | 48 | Concordia (Ill.) | 5.095 | 0.190 (4-17) | 4-18 |
| 354 | 62 | Massachusetts College | 5.059 | 0.294 (5-12) | 6-15 |
| 355 | 32 | Elmira | 5.056 | 0.111 (2-16) | 2-18 |
| 356 | 49 | Rockford | 5.050 | 0.100 (2-18) | 3-18 |
| 357 | 63 | University of New England | 5.045 | 0.182 (4-18) | 4-19 |
| 358 | 28 | Lehman | 5.000 | 0.300 (6-14) | 9-15 |
| 359 | 53 | Cabrini | 5.000 | 0.150 (3-17) | 3-19 |
| 360 | 54 | Gallaudet | 5.000 | 0.111 (2-16) | 4-18 |
| 361 | 51 | Northland | 5.000 | 0.250 (3-9) | 6-14 |
| 362 | 52 | UW-Superior | 5.000 | 0.167 (3-15) | 6-16 |
| 363 | 64 | Anna Maria | 4.905 | 0.286 (6-15) | 7-15 |
| 364 | 33 | Skidmore | 4.882 | 0.059 (1-16) | 2-18 |
| 365 | 36 | Pitt-Greensburg | 4.842 | 0.105 (2-17) | 2-20 |
| 366 | 37 | Denison | 4.833 | 0.167 (3-15) | 4-17 |
| 367 | 38 | Case Western Reserve | 4.813 | 0.125 (2-14) | 4-16 |
| 368 | 50 | Lynchburg | 4.765 | 0.176 (3-14) | 6-15 |
| 369 | 29 | Mt. St. Vincent | 4.500 | 0.050 (1-19) | 2-19 |
| 370 | 39 | Oberlin | 4.500 | 0.200 (4-16) | 4-18 |
| 371 | 55 | Marywood | 4.474 | 0.105 (2-17) | 5-18 |
| 372 | 51 | Huntingdon | 4.471 | 0.118 (2-15) | 3-19 |
| 373 | 30 | Centenary | 4.421 | 0.105 (2-17) | 3-18 |
| 374 | 65 | Becker | 4.333 | 0.100 (2-18) | 2-18 |
| 375 | 53 | Caltech | 4.267 | 0.000 (0-15) | 1-19 |
| 376 | 66 | Johnson State | 4.222 | 0.111 (2-16) | 4-17 |
| 377 | 67 | Albertus Magnus | 4.150 | 0.100 (2-18) | 2-18 |
| 378 | 31 | Polytechnic | 4.125 | 0.125 (2-14) | 4-16 |
| 379 | 34 | Bard | 4.059 | 0.176 (3-14) | 3-18 |
| 380 | 32 | Brooklyn | 4.056 | 0.222 (4-14) | 9-14 |
| 381 | 35 | D'Youville | 4.048 | 0.095 (2-19) | 2-20 |
| 382 | 54 | Colorado College | 4.000 | 0.100 (1-9) | 3-19 |
| 383 | 40 | Alma | 3.917 | 0.083 (1-11) | 2-19 |
| 384 | 50 | Maranatha Baptist | 3.875 | 0.000 (0-16) | 3-18 |
| 385 | 51 | Principia | 3.643 | 0.000 (0-14) | 1-17 |
| 386 | 68 | Eastern Nazarene | 3.263 | 0.000 (0-19) | 0-21 |
| 387 | 55 | Crown | 3.100 | 0.000 (0-10) | 1-19 |
| 388 | 69 | Green Mountain | 2.636 | 0.000 (0-11) | 2-17 |
| 389 | 41 | Finlandia | 2.000 | 0.000 (0-1) | 3-17 |
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2007, 01:46:39 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 09, 2007, 01:46:39 PM
Uh oh. It looks like the numbers are skewed pretty heavily in favor of the NE again. This can't end well.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2007, 02:13:18 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2007, 02:13:18 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 09, 2007, 01:46:39 PM
Uh oh. It looks like the numbers are skewed pretty heavily in favor of the NE again. This can't end well.
They always are! :-\ >:(
I wish that I had a copy of that blog in which I outlined how the NESCAC boosts their QOWI
1) by 0.4 points on 20 in-region games by not suffering a loss in the second round of double round robin,
2) and then by loading up on 12 and 13 points QOWI games on .550 percentage Northeast region "weak sisters",
3) and finally, having the NESCAC bottom feeders going 1-8 in conference and finishing 12-12 in the Northeast Region. They go from a conference 8/9 "blowout" victory to a 12/13 "blowout" victory.
What the CCIW teams would give for a 12/13 QOWI pont blowout victory.
As Titan Q said earlier today, it is time for the opponents' opponents' winning percentages. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2007, 03:18:52 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 09, 2007, 03:18:52 PM
I have a similar comment over on the QOWI board.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 09, 2007, 09:32:56 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 09, 2007, 09:32:56 PM
scottiedoug:
It was wishful thinking on my part for someone to beat Maryville ;D , because Lincoln will need all the help we can get in trying to make it back to the NCAA's this year.
The Lions really have no one but themselves to blame when they loss to PSU Altoona in December, 2006. Additionally, Lincoln wasn't at full strength when the played at Ramapo, and avenged the Ramapo loss with a win at Lincoln. Lincoln has a tough game at NJCU next week, and the Lions NCAA bid may come down to the game with the Gothic Knights. Last year Lincoln was terrific on the road, but this year is another story.
It was wishful thinking on my part for someone to beat Maryville ;D , because Lincoln will need all the help we can get in trying to make it back to the NCAA's this year.
The Lions really have no one but themselves to blame when they loss to PSU Altoona in December, 2006. Additionally, Lincoln wasn't at full strength when the played at Ramapo, and avenged the Ramapo loss with a win at Lincoln. Lincoln has a tough game at NJCU next week, and the Lions NCAA bid may come down to the game with the Gothic Knights. Last year Lincoln was terrific on the road, but this year is another story.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2007, 12:49:55 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2007, 12:49:55 PM
QOWI top 200 to follow, through Saturday:
Rank Points In-region Team Region Win% Overall
1 11.550 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.950 (19-1) 20-2
2 11.522 1 Amherst 0.957 (22-1) 23-1
3 11.050 1 Ramapo 0.850 (17-3) 18-5
4 10.889 1 Lake Erie 1.000 (18-0) 22-1
5 10.842 2 Worcester Polytech 0.895 (17-2) 19-2
6 10.789 3 Trinity (Conn.) 0.842 (16-3) 20-3
7 10.778 1 Washington U. 0.833 (15-3) 17-3
8 10.667 4 Salem State 0.905 (19-2) 19-2
9 10.591 2 Augustana 0.864 (19-3) 19-4
10 10.588 1 DePauw 0.882 (15-2) 18-4
11 10.478 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.870 (20-3) 21-3
12 10.476 3 Aurora 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
13 10.455 5 Rhode Island College 0.864 (19-3) 19-3
14 10.450 1 Rochester 0.800 (16-4) 16-5
15 10.429 1 Johns Hopkins 0.905 (19-2) 20-3
16 10.412 2 Messiah 0.824 (14-3) 17-5
17 10.368 4 Chicago 0.789 (15-4) 17-4
18 10.364 2 St. Lawrence 0.773 (17-5) 18-5
19 10.350 6 Keene State 0.800 (16-4) 19-4
20 10.350 2 John Carroll 0.750 (15-5) 16-7
21 10.333 2 St. Thomas 0.875 (21-3) 21-3
22 10.316 3 Mississippi College 0.947 (18-1) 20-2
23 10.300 3 St. John's 0.900 (18-2) 18-5
24 10.286 3 Brockport State 0.810 (17-4) 18-4
25 10.286 3 Catholic 0.762 (16-5) 17-5
26 10.158 2 Richard Stockton 0.737 (14-5) 17-7
27 10.150 4 Whitworth 0.850 (17-3) 20-3
28 10.111 3 Ohio Northern 0.667 (12-6) 17-6
29 10.100 5 UW-Oshkosh 0.800 (16-4) 19-4
30 10.048 7 Brandeis 0.714 (15-6) 15-6
31 10.048 4 Hood 0.762 (16-5) 17-6
32 10.045 4 St. John Fisher 0.773 (17-5) 18-5
33 10.000 8 Bates 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
34 10.000 5 Hamilton 0.722 (13-5) 16-5
35 10.000 4 Wittenberg 0.833 (15-3) 20-3
36 9.957 3 Manhattanville 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
37 9.955 4 Stevens 0.818 (18-4) 19-4
38 9.947 6 Loras 0.789 (15-4) 17-6
39 9.941 5 Wooster 0.882 (15-2) 20-3
40 9.929 6 Hope 0.857 (12-2) 19-3
41 9.923 7 Occidental 0.769 (10-3) 15-5
42 9.900 4 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.850 (17-3) 17-5
43 9.889 5 Elmhurst 0.778 (14-4) 18-4
44 9.864 5 King's 0.727 (16-6) 16-7
45 9.857 6 Utica 0.810 (17-4) 18-4
46 9.850 7 New York University 0.750 (15-5) 16-5
47 9.850 5 Guilford 0.850 (17-3) 18-3
48 9.833 6 Averett 0.778 (14-4) 16-6
49 9.800 9 Husson 0.850 (17-3) 17-5
50 9.778 6 Bluffton 0.722 (13-5) 17-6
51 9.769 6 Lincoln 0.769 (10-3) 15-7
52 9.706 7 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.647 (11-6) 15-7
53 9.684 8 UW-La Crosse 0.684 (13-6) 15-7
54 9.667 9 Coe 0.714 (15-6) 17-6
55 9.619 7 Scranton 0.762 (16-5) 18-5
56 9.615 10 Redlands 0.769 (10-3) 14-6
57 9.609 7 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.870 (20-3) 20-3
58 9.600 5 New Jersey City 0.700 (14-6) 16-7
59 9.600 8 Alvernia 0.900 (18-2) 19-4
60 9.600 8 Centre 0.733 (11-4) 17-4
61 9.545 10 Babson 0.636 (14-8) 15-8
62 9.522 11 Tufts 0.609 (14-9) 14-9
63 9.500 6 Rowan 0.722 (13-5) 18-5
64 9.500 7 Capital 0.682 (15-7) 15-7
65 9.458 9 York (Pa.) 0.667 (16-8) 16-8
66 9.429 12 Bridgewater State 0.714 (15-6) 15-6
67 9.400 10 Ursinus 0.750 (15-5) 16-7
68 9.389 11 Puget Sound 0.778 (14-4) 17-5
69 9.350 8 Grinnell 0.700 (14-6) 15-6
70 9.313 12 Lewis and Clark 0.750 (12-4) 16-6
71 9.250 13 Cal Lutheran 0.688 (11-5) 16-5
72 9.238 13 Elms 0.714 (15-6) 16-6
73 9.238 7 Rutgers-Newark 0.667 (14-7) 16-7
74 9.235 8 Plattsburgh State 0.706 (12-5) 15-7
75 9.235 9 Carthage 0.588 (10-7) 14-8
76 9.222 8 Baldwin-Wallace 0.667 (12-6) 15-8
77 9.222 9 Carnegie Mellon 0.611 (11-7) 12-8
78 9.200 14 Colby 0.650 (13-7) 14-10
79 9.176 9 Millsaps 0.706 (12-5) 14-8
80 9.150 11 Mary Washington 0.700 (14-6) 15-7
81 9.130 8 William Paterson 0.609 (14-9) 14-10
82 9.118 10 Westminster (Pa.) 0.824 (14-3) 16-7
83 9.100 10 Defiance 0.684 (13-6) 16-6
84 9.087 15 Western New England 0.696 (16-7) 16-7
85 9.045 14 Bethel 0.727 (16-6) 17-6
86 9.000 16 Gordon 0.684 (13-6) 16-6
87 9.000 9 Geneseo State 0.619 (13-8) 14-9
88 9.000 12 Susquehanna 0.619 (13-8) 15-8
89 9.000 10 McMurry 0.800 (16-4) 17-6
90 9.000 11 Transylvania 0.636 (14-8) 15-8
91 8.957 15 UW-Whitewater 0.652 (15-8) 15-8
92 8.955 17 Lasell 0.591 (13-9) 13-9
93 8.947 12 Manchester 0.579 (11-8) 14-8
94 8.909 11 Heidelberg 0.591 (13-9) 13-10
95 8.900 13 Villa Julie 0.700 (14-6) 15-7
96 8.895 10 Vassar 0.684 (13-6) 14-7
97 8.895 13 Mt. St. Joseph 0.579 (11-8) 11-11
98 8.870 11 Clarkson 0.565 (13-10) 13-10
99 8.857 12 Otterbein 0.571 (12-9) 13-10
100 8.850 14 DeSales 0.700 (14-6) 16-7
101 8.842 15 FDU-Florham 0.632 (12-7) 16-7
102 8.800 14 Edgewood 0.650 (13-7) 14-7
103 8.792 18 Middlebury 0.625 (15-9) 15-9
104 8.789 11 Greensboro 0.737 (14-5) 17-6
105 8.750 12 Oswego State 0.600 (12-8) 13-10
106 8.737 9 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.632 (12-7) 14-8
107 8.737 12 Trinity (Texas) 0.579 (11-8) 13-10
108 8.722 16 Buena Vista 0.667 (12-6) 15-7
109 8.714 13 Calvin 0.643 (9-5) 14-8
110 8.688 16 Marymount 0.500 (8-8) 12-10
111 8.667 19 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.667 (10-5) 15-5
112 8.667 14 Penn State-Behrend 0.714 (15-6) 16-6
113 8.667 17 Pomona-Pitzer 0.583 (7-5) 12-8
114 8.632 17 Juniata 0.632 (12-7) 13-10
115 8.579 15 Hanover 0.611 (11-7) 13-10
116 8.550 13 Rochester Tech 0.550 (11-9) 13-10
117 8.526 15 Ohio Wesleyan 0.632 (12-7) 15-8
118 8.526 16 Carroll 0.632 (12-7) 12-8
119 8.526 18 Simpson 0.579 (11-8) 15-8
120 8.500 20 Williams 0.545 (12-10) 13-11
121 8.500 14 Ithaca 0.556 (10-8) 12-10
122 8.500 17 North Central 0.500 (7-7) 13-9
123 8.476 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.619 (13-8) 13-10
124 8.474 18 Baptist Bible 0.737 (14-5) 15-6
125 8.474 18 Ripon 0.579 (11-8) 12-8
126 8.455 16 Wilmington 0.545 (12-10) 13-10
127 8.444 10 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.556 (10-8) 13-9
128 8.444 19 UW-Platteville 0.611 (11-7) 13-9
129 8.429 15 RPI 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
130 8.381 13 Texas-Dallas 0.714 (15-6) 17-6
131 8.381 19 Dominican 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
132 8.368 11 Kean 0.526 (10-9) 13-10
133 8.333 22 Endicott 0.571 (12-9) 12-9
134 8.333 19 Lebanon Valley 0.571 (12-9) 14-9
135 8.318 20 Franklin 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
136 8.316 17 Bethany 0.737 (14-5) 17-6
137 8.316 21 Lakeland 0.579 (11-8) 13-9
138 8.300 12 Kings Point 0.650 (13-7) 14-9
139 8.273 23 Bowdoin 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
140 8.263 22 Webster 0.579 (11-8) 14-9
141 8.263 23 Lake Forest 0.579 (11-8) 12-9
142 8.250 24 Emerson 0.650 (13-7) 14-8
143 8.250 25 Westfield State 0.550 (11-9) 13-10
144 8.238 24 North Park 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
145 8.235 20 Chestnut Hill 0.706 (12-5) 15-8
146 8.200 14 LaGrange 0.600 (9-6) 14-8
147 8.190 26 Western Connecticut 0.571 (12-9) 13-10
148 8.190 15 Oglethorpe 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
149 8.182 27 MIT 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
150 8.182 20 Gustavus Adolphus 0.591 (13-9) 13-10
151 8.150 16 SUNYIT 0.600 (12-8) 14-9
152 8.105 25 MacMurray 0.579 (11-8) 14-8
153 8.105 26 Lawrence 0.526 (10-9) 12-9
154 8.100 21 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.550 (11-9) 12-11
155 8.095 22 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.524 (11-10) 12-10
156 8.091 28 Springfield 0.455 (10-12) 11-12
157 8.071 18 Tri-State 0.643 (9-5) 14-7
158 8.063 21 Chapman 0.688 (11-5) 16-5
159 8.063 22 Pacific 0.500 (8-8) 10-12
160 8.056 23 Lycoming 0.556 (10-8) 12-11
161 8.053 17 Union 0.526 (10-9) 10-12
162 8.053 24 Eastern 0.684 (13-6) 15-8
163 8.050 13 New Jersey 0.400 (8-12) 11-13
164 8.048 29 Wentworth Tech 0.619 (13-8) 13-9
165 8.048 27 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.571 (12-9) 13-10
166 8.000 30 Rivier 0.682 (15-7) 15-8
167 8.000 18 Oneonta State 0.500 (9-9) 10-13
168 8.000 14 Yeshiva 0.600 (12-8) 14-8
169 8.000 25 Haverford 0.556 (10-8) 11-11
170 8.000 26 Salisbury 0.476 (10-11) 12-11
171 8.000 16 LeTourneau 0.619 (13-8) 14-8
172 8.000 17 Emory 0.389 (7-11) 8-13
173 8.000 28 Fontbonne 0.563 (9-7) 12-10
174 7.952 15 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.619 (13-8) 14-8
175 7.952 27 Widener 0.524 (11-10) 12-10
176 7.950 16 York (N.Y.) 0.650 (13-7) 15-10
177 7.917 23 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.500 (6-6) 12-9
178 7.895 24 Carleton 0.526 (10-9) 10-13
179 7.813 29 Monmouth 0.563 (9-7) 11-10
180 7.800 28 Neumann 0.500 (10-10) 12-11
181 7.800 29 Wilkes 0.450 (9-11) 10-11
182 7.789 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.526 (10-9) 12-10
183 7.778 30 Milwaukee Engineering 0.556 (10-8) 14-10
184 7.762 19 Muskingum 0.476 (10-11) 11-11
185 7.737 18 Emory and Henry 0.579 (11-8) 14-8
186 7.733 19 Hendrix 0.533 (8-7) 13-8
187 7.722 20 Southwestern 0.444 (8-10) 9-13
188 7.714 25 George Fox 0.500 (7-7) 12-11
189 7.700 32 Norwich 0.550 (11-9) 12-10
190 7.636 30 McDaniel 0.455 (10-12) 10-12
191 7.625 20 Albion 0.500 (8-8) 8-14
192 7.619 31 Marian 0.524 (11-10) 12-10
193 7.588 32 Illinois Wesleyan 0.412 (7-10) 10-12
194 7.588 26 Central 0.471 (8-9) 10-12
195 7.579 33 Eureka 0.526 (10-9) 13-9
196 7.571 21 Adrian 0.571 (8-6) 8-13
197 7.556 19 Buffalo State 0.444 (8-10) 11-11
198 7.529 27 Willamette 0.412 (7-10) 10-13
199 7.522 21 Hardin-Simmons 0.565 (13-10) 13-10
200 7.500 31 Albright 0.350 (7-13) 9-13
Rank Points In-region Team Region Win% Overall
1 11.550 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.950 (19-1) 20-2
2 11.522 1 Amherst 0.957 (22-1) 23-1
3 11.050 1 Ramapo 0.850 (17-3) 18-5
4 10.889 1 Lake Erie 1.000 (18-0) 22-1
5 10.842 2 Worcester Polytech 0.895 (17-2) 19-2
6 10.789 3 Trinity (Conn.) 0.842 (16-3) 20-3
7 10.778 1 Washington U. 0.833 (15-3) 17-3
8 10.667 4 Salem State 0.905 (19-2) 19-2
9 10.591 2 Augustana 0.864 (19-3) 19-4
10 10.588 1 DePauw 0.882 (15-2) 18-4
11 10.478 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.870 (20-3) 21-3
12 10.476 3 Aurora 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
13 10.455 5 Rhode Island College 0.864 (19-3) 19-3
14 10.450 1 Rochester 0.800 (16-4) 16-5
15 10.429 1 Johns Hopkins 0.905 (19-2) 20-3
16 10.412 2 Messiah 0.824 (14-3) 17-5
17 10.368 4 Chicago 0.789 (15-4) 17-4
18 10.364 2 St. Lawrence 0.773 (17-5) 18-5
19 10.350 6 Keene State 0.800 (16-4) 19-4
20 10.350 2 John Carroll 0.750 (15-5) 16-7
21 10.333 2 St. Thomas 0.875 (21-3) 21-3
22 10.316 3 Mississippi College 0.947 (18-1) 20-2
23 10.300 3 St. John's 0.900 (18-2) 18-5
24 10.286 3 Brockport State 0.810 (17-4) 18-4
25 10.286 3 Catholic 0.762 (16-5) 17-5
26 10.158 2 Richard Stockton 0.737 (14-5) 17-7
27 10.150 4 Whitworth 0.850 (17-3) 20-3
28 10.111 3 Ohio Northern 0.667 (12-6) 17-6
29 10.100 5 UW-Oshkosh 0.800 (16-4) 19-4
30 10.048 7 Brandeis 0.714 (15-6) 15-6
31 10.048 4 Hood 0.762 (16-5) 17-6
32 10.045 4 St. John Fisher 0.773 (17-5) 18-5
33 10.000 8 Bates 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
34 10.000 5 Hamilton 0.722 (13-5) 16-5
35 10.000 4 Wittenberg 0.833 (15-3) 20-3
36 9.957 3 Manhattanville 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
37 9.955 4 Stevens 0.818 (18-4) 19-4
38 9.947 6 Loras 0.789 (15-4) 17-6
39 9.941 5 Wooster 0.882 (15-2) 20-3
40 9.929 6 Hope 0.857 (12-2) 19-3
41 9.923 7 Occidental 0.769 (10-3) 15-5
42 9.900 4 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.850 (17-3) 17-5
43 9.889 5 Elmhurst 0.778 (14-4) 18-4
44 9.864 5 King's 0.727 (16-6) 16-7
45 9.857 6 Utica 0.810 (17-4) 18-4
46 9.850 7 New York University 0.750 (15-5) 16-5
47 9.850 5 Guilford 0.850 (17-3) 18-3
48 9.833 6 Averett 0.778 (14-4) 16-6
49 9.800 9 Husson 0.850 (17-3) 17-5
50 9.778 6 Bluffton 0.722 (13-5) 17-6
51 9.769 6 Lincoln 0.769 (10-3) 15-7
52 9.706 7 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.647 (11-6) 15-7
53 9.684 8 UW-La Crosse 0.684 (13-6) 15-7
54 9.667 9 Coe 0.714 (15-6) 17-6
55 9.619 7 Scranton 0.762 (16-5) 18-5
56 9.615 10 Redlands 0.769 (10-3) 14-6
57 9.609 7 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.870 (20-3) 20-3
58 9.600 5 New Jersey City 0.700 (14-6) 16-7
59 9.600 8 Alvernia 0.900 (18-2) 19-4
60 9.600 8 Centre 0.733 (11-4) 17-4
61 9.545 10 Babson 0.636 (14-8) 15-8
62 9.522 11 Tufts 0.609 (14-9) 14-9
63 9.500 6 Rowan 0.722 (13-5) 18-5
64 9.500 7 Capital 0.682 (15-7) 15-7
65 9.458 9 York (Pa.) 0.667 (16-8) 16-8
66 9.429 12 Bridgewater State 0.714 (15-6) 15-6
67 9.400 10 Ursinus 0.750 (15-5) 16-7
68 9.389 11 Puget Sound 0.778 (14-4) 17-5
69 9.350 8 Grinnell 0.700 (14-6) 15-6
70 9.313 12 Lewis and Clark 0.750 (12-4) 16-6
71 9.250 13 Cal Lutheran 0.688 (11-5) 16-5
72 9.238 13 Elms 0.714 (15-6) 16-6
73 9.238 7 Rutgers-Newark 0.667 (14-7) 16-7
74 9.235 8 Plattsburgh State 0.706 (12-5) 15-7
75 9.235 9 Carthage 0.588 (10-7) 14-8
76 9.222 8 Baldwin-Wallace 0.667 (12-6) 15-8
77 9.222 9 Carnegie Mellon 0.611 (11-7) 12-8
78 9.200 14 Colby 0.650 (13-7) 14-10
79 9.176 9 Millsaps 0.706 (12-5) 14-8
80 9.150 11 Mary Washington 0.700 (14-6) 15-7
81 9.130 8 William Paterson 0.609 (14-9) 14-10
82 9.118 10 Westminster (Pa.) 0.824 (14-3) 16-7
83 9.100 10 Defiance 0.684 (13-6) 16-6
84 9.087 15 Western New England 0.696 (16-7) 16-7
85 9.045 14 Bethel 0.727 (16-6) 17-6
86 9.000 16 Gordon 0.684 (13-6) 16-6
87 9.000 9 Geneseo State 0.619 (13-8) 14-9
88 9.000 12 Susquehanna 0.619 (13-8) 15-8
89 9.000 10 McMurry 0.800 (16-4) 17-6
90 9.000 11 Transylvania 0.636 (14-8) 15-8
91 8.957 15 UW-Whitewater 0.652 (15-8) 15-8
92 8.955 17 Lasell 0.591 (13-9) 13-9
93 8.947 12 Manchester 0.579 (11-8) 14-8
94 8.909 11 Heidelberg 0.591 (13-9) 13-10
95 8.900 13 Villa Julie 0.700 (14-6) 15-7
96 8.895 10 Vassar 0.684 (13-6) 14-7
97 8.895 13 Mt. St. Joseph 0.579 (11-8) 11-11
98 8.870 11 Clarkson 0.565 (13-10) 13-10
99 8.857 12 Otterbein 0.571 (12-9) 13-10
100 8.850 14 DeSales 0.700 (14-6) 16-7
101 8.842 15 FDU-Florham 0.632 (12-7) 16-7
102 8.800 14 Edgewood 0.650 (13-7) 14-7
103 8.792 18 Middlebury 0.625 (15-9) 15-9
104 8.789 11 Greensboro 0.737 (14-5) 17-6
105 8.750 12 Oswego State 0.600 (12-8) 13-10
106 8.737 9 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.632 (12-7) 14-8
107 8.737 12 Trinity (Texas) 0.579 (11-8) 13-10
108 8.722 16 Buena Vista 0.667 (12-6) 15-7
109 8.714 13 Calvin 0.643 (9-5) 14-8
110 8.688 16 Marymount 0.500 (8-8) 12-10
111 8.667 19 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.667 (10-5) 15-5
112 8.667 14 Penn State-Behrend 0.714 (15-6) 16-6
113 8.667 17 Pomona-Pitzer 0.583 (7-5) 12-8
114 8.632 17 Juniata 0.632 (12-7) 13-10
115 8.579 15 Hanover 0.611 (11-7) 13-10
116 8.550 13 Rochester Tech 0.550 (11-9) 13-10
117 8.526 15 Ohio Wesleyan 0.632 (12-7) 15-8
118 8.526 16 Carroll 0.632 (12-7) 12-8
119 8.526 18 Simpson 0.579 (11-8) 15-8
120 8.500 20 Williams 0.545 (12-10) 13-11
121 8.500 14 Ithaca 0.556 (10-8) 12-10
122 8.500 17 North Central 0.500 (7-7) 13-9
123 8.476 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.619 (13-8) 13-10
124 8.474 18 Baptist Bible 0.737 (14-5) 15-6
125 8.474 18 Ripon 0.579 (11-8) 12-8
126 8.455 16 Wilmington 0.545 (12-10) 13-10
127 8.444 10 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.556 (10-8) 13-9
128 8.444 19 UW-Platteville 0.611 (11-7) 13-9
129 8.429 15 RPI 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
130 8.381 13 Texas-Dallas 0.714 (15-6) 17-6
131 8.381 19 Dominican 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
132 8.368 11 Kean 0.526 (10-9) 13-10
133 8.333 22 Endicott 0.571 (12-9) 12-9
134 8.333 19 Lebanon Valley 0.571 (12-9) 14-9
135 8.318 20 Franklin 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
136 8.316 17 Bethany 0.737 (14-5) 17-6
137 8.316 21 Lakeland 0.579 (11-8) 13-9
138 8.300 12 Kings Point 0.650 (13-7) 14-9
139 8.273 23 Bowdoin 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
140 8.263 22 Webster 0.579 (11-8) 14-9
141 8.263 23 Lake Forest 0.579 (11-8) 12-9
142 8.250 24 Emerson 0.650 (13-7) 14-8
143 8.250 25 Westfield State 0.550 (11-9) 13-10
144 8.238 24 North Park 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
145 8.235 20 Chestnut Hill 0.706 (12-5) 15-8
146 8.200 14 LaGrange 0.600 (9-6) 14-8
147 8.190 26 Western Connecticut 0.571 (12-9) 13-10
148 8.190 15 Oglethorpe 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
149 8.182 27 MIT 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
150 8.182 20 Gustavus Adolphus 0.591 (13-9) 13-10
151 8.150 16 SUNYIT 0.600 (12-8) 14-9
152 8.105 25 MacMurray 0.579 (11-8) 14-8
153 8.105 26 Lawrence 0.526 (10-9) 12-9
154 8.100 21 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.550 (11-9) 12-11
155 8.095 22 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.524 (11-10) 12-10
156 8.091 28 Springfield 0.455 (10-12) 11-12
157 8.071 18 Tri-State 0.643 (9-5) 14-7
158 8.063 21 Chapman 0.688 (11-5) 16-5
159 8.063 22 Pacific 0.500 (8-8) 10-12
160 8.056 23 Lycoming 0.556 (10-8) 12-11
161 8.053 17 Union 0.526 (10-9) 10-12
162 8.053 24 Eastern 0.684 (13-6) 15-8
163 8.050 13 New Jersey 0.400 (8-12) 11-13
164 8.048 29 Wentworth Tech 0.619 (13-8) 13-9
165 8.048 27 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.571 (12-9) 13-10
166 8.000 30 Rivier 0.682 (15-7) 15-8
167 8.000 18 Oneonta State 0.500 (9-9) 10-13
168 8.000 14 Yeshiva 0.600 (12-8) 14-8
169 8.000 25 Haverford 0.556 (10-8) 11-11
170 8.000 26 Salisbury 0.476 (10-11) 12-11
171 8.000 16 LeTourneau 0.619 (13-8) 14-8
172 8.000 17 Emory 0.389 (7-11) 8-13
173 8.000 28 Fontbonne 0.563 (9-7) 12-10
174 7.952 15 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.619 (13-8) 14-8
175 7.952 27 Widener 0.524 (11-10) 12-10
176 7.950 16 York (N.Y.) 0.650 (13-7) 15-10
177 7.917 23 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.500 (6-6) 12-9
178 7.895 24 Carleton 0.526 (10-9) 10-13
179 7.813 29 Monmouth 0.563 (9-7) 11-10
180 7.800 28 Neumann 0.500 (10-10) 12-11
181 7.800 29 Wilkes 0.450 (9-11) 10-11
182 7.789 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.526 (10-9) 12-10
183 7.778 30 Milwaukee Engineering 0.556 (10-8) 14-10
184 7.762 19 Muskingum 0.476 (10-11) 11-11
185 7.737 18 Emory and Henry 0.579 (11-8) 14-8
186 7.733 19 Hendrix 0.533 (8-7) 13-8
187 7.722 20 Southwestern 0.444 (8-10) 9-13
188 7.714 25 George Fox 0.500 (7-7) 12-11
189 7.700 32 Norwich 0.550 (11-9) 12-10
190 7.636 30 McDaniel 0.455 (10-12) 10-12
191 7.625 20 Albion 0.500 (8-8) 8-14
192 7.619 31 Marian 0.524 (11-10) 12-10
193 7.588 32 Illinois Wesleyan 0.412 (7-10) 10-12
194 7.588 26 Central 0.471 (8-9) 10-12
195 7.579 33 Eureka 0.526 (10-9) 13-9
196 7.571 21 Adrian 0.571 (8-6) 8-13
197 7.556 19 Buffalo State 0.444 (8-10) 11-11
198 7.529 27 Willamette 0.412 (7-10) 10-13
199 7.522 21 Hardin-Simmons 0.565 (13-10) 13-10
200 7.500 31 Albright 0.350 (7-13) 9-13
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2007, 08:56:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2007, 08:56:26 PM
Pool B update:
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Team/Conference/Overall/In-region/In-RegionPercentage/QOWI/In-region games remaining
1) Aurora/NAthCon/21-1/19-2/.905/10.475/2 + conf. tourney
2) Westminster PA/PresAC/16-7/14-3/ .824/ 9.118/ 2 + conf. tourney (Win over Bethany)
3) Maryville/GSAC/ 18-5/ 18-3/ .857/ 9.900/ 1 in-region + conf. tourney
4) Lincoln PA/Ind/15-7/10-3/ .769/ 9.769/ (no tourney confirmed)*
5) Bethany/Pres AC/17-6/14-5/ .737/8.316/ 2 + conf. tourney (Loss to Westminster PA)
6) Chapman/Ind/16-5/ 11-5/ .688/ 8.063/1 + possible tourney
7) Edgewood/NAthCon/14-7/ 13-7/ .650/ 8.800/ 3 + conf. tourney
*Lincoln appeared in the Mid-Atlantic Regional Rankings this week, but no Pres Ac team did. Also present in the Regional Rankings were Aurora and Maryville.
I think that Lincoln has a chance to make the playoffs as either a Pool B or a Pool C if the Pres AC gets a representative into the tourney as a Pool B.
Teams are listed by winning percentage of in-region games. (Four bids awarded.)
Team/Conference/Overall/In-region/In-RegionPercentage/QOWI/In-region games remaining
1) Aurora/NAthCon/21-1/19-2/.905/10.475/2 + conf. tourney
2) Westminster PA/PresAC/16-7/14-3/ .824/ 9.118/ 2 + conf. tourney (Win over Bethany)
3) Maryville/GSAC/ 18-5/ 18-3/ .857/ 9.900/ 1 in-region + conf. tourney
4) Lincoln PA/Ind/15-7/10-3/ .769/ 9.769/ (no tourney confirmed)*
5) Bethany/Pres AC/17-6/14-5/ .737/8.316/ 2 + conf. tourney (Loss to Westminster PA)
6) Chapman/Ind/16-5/ 11-5/ .688/ 8.063/1 + possible tourney
7) Edgewood/NAthCon/14-7/ 13-7/ .650/ 8.800/ 3 + conf. tourney
*Lincoln appeared in the Mid-Atlantic Regional Rankings this week, but no Pres Ac team did. Also present in the Regional Rankings were Aurora and Maryville.
I think that Lincoln has a chance to make the playoffs as either a Pool B or a Pool C if the Pres AC gets a representative into the tourney as a Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 11, 2007, 09:29:49 PM
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 11, 2007, 09:29:49 PM
NAthCon contenders' remaining schedule:
Aurora: vs. Concordia-Chicago, at Rockford.
Edgewood: at Rockford, vs. Concordia-WI, vs. Benedictine.
IMHO Aurora, on paper, appears to have the easiest schedule of the two. :-X :-\ :-X :-\
Aurora: vs. Concordia-Chicago, at Rockford.
Edgewood: at Rockford, vs. Concordia-WI, vs. Benedictine.
IMHO Aurora, on paper, appears to have the easiest schedule of the two. :-X :-\ :-X :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 11, 2007, 09:58:50 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 11, 2007, 09:58:50 PM
Westminster and Bethany clash on Saturday with the first place seed on the line....there is also a good chance the two teams could meet again in the tourney championship.....if a PrAC team would get one of the three bids do you think they would have to sweep the next two meetings....i think Westminster is in the drivers seat as of right now, but what are the chances if any that Bethany will jump over Lincoln if they beat Westminster and win their tourney?
-- also to be noted is that Bethany has two wins over a common opponent of PS-Altoona which Lincoln lost to
-- also to be noted is that Bethany has two wins over a common opponent of PS-Altoona which Lincoln lost to
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 11, 2007, 10:23:30 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 11, 2007, 10:23:30 PM
jack johnson:
You are correct about Lincoln's loss to PSU Altoona (without five key Lion players), however the Lions QOWI is #51 compared to Bethany's #136. I'm pretty sure voters will take the QOWI into consideration when looking at potential post season teams.
You are correct about Lincoln's loss to PSU Altoona (without five key Lion players), however the Lions QOWI is #51 compared to Bethany's #136. I'm pretty sure voters will take the QOWI into consideration when looking at potential post season teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2007, 10:29:22 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2007, 10:29:22 PM
What they won't take into account is:
Quote from: njlincolnlion on February 11, 2007, 10:23:30 PM
(without five key Lion players)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: jack johnson on February 11, 2007, 10:31:13 PM
Post by: jack johnson on February 11, 2007, 10:31:13 PM
njlincolnlion:
so basically Lincoln is looking for a Bethany win over Westminster that will most likely drop them down and allow Lincoln to move into the 3rd and final spot.....i have seen some talk about Lincoln possibly getting a Pool C bid if one of the PrAC teams would get the nod ahead of them - do you know the chances of this happening
so basically Lincoln is looking for a Bethany win over Westminster that will most likely drop them down and allow Lincoln to move into the 3rd and final spot.....i have seen some talk about Lincoln possibly getting a Pool C bid if one of the PrAC teams would get the nod ahead of them - do you know the chances of this happening
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on February 11, 2007, 11:03:40 PM
Post by: sac on February 11, 2007, 11:03:40 PM
Quote from: jack johnson on February 11, 2007, 10:31:13 PM
njlincolnlion:
so basically Lincoln is looking for a Bethany win over Westminster that will most likely drop them down and allow Lincoln to move into the 3rd and final spot.....i have seen some talk about Lincoln possibly getting a Pool C bid if one of the PrAC teams would get the nod ahead of them - do you know the chances of this happening
As long as Lincoln appears on the final regional rankings they'll have a shot at a pool C. If they aren't ranked they won't come up in Pool C discussions. That ranking is not released to the public.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2007, 12:00:10 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 12, 2007, 12:00:10 AM
They don't have to be in the top eight in the Mid-Atlantic, though, to be considered for a Pool C, at least not technically. The committee chairs go into the selection call with a deeper list of ranked teams in case all of theirs get selected.
The odds of more than a couple of Mid-Atlantic at-large teams getting bids are not good, however.
The odds of more than a couple of Mid-Atlantic at-large teams getting bids are not good, however.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 12, 2007, 12:09:27 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 12, 2007, 12:09:27 PM
Ralph you have confused me, which is not hard to do.
You say there are four bids and others say three. Which is it?
Maryville has a better record, higher win %, and higher QOWI than Westminster and you have ranked Westminster 2 and Maryville 3. ??
You say there are four bids and others say three. Which is it?
Maryville has a better record, higher win %, and higher QOWI than Westminster and you have ranked Westminster 2 and Maryville 3. ??
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 12, 2007, 12:32:46 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 12, 2007, 12:32:46 PM
There are three pool B bids for the men's tournament.
It seems like I quote the Handbook in about every fifth post these days. I strongly recommend that people interested in how the tournament teams are selected or how the tournament is run download the handbook from the NCAA site:
Click here to download the Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4j3CQXJgFjGpvqRqCKOcAFfj_zcVH1v_QD9gtzQiHJHRUUAc0tpTA!!/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvUUd3QndNQSEvNElVRS82XzBfTFU!?CONTENT_URL=http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_and_events/ncaa_publications/championship_handbooks/winter/basketball/mens/index.html)
By the way, the "measurements" for the women's tournament are 39-4-20.
Quote from: 2007 Division III Men's Basketball Championship Handbook, page 13Based on the sponsorship data, the following allocations will be implemented for the 2007 championship:
Pool A 37 teams
Pool B 3 teams # Pool B teams/Access ratio
Pool C 19 teams Field size - Pool A - Pool B
It seems like I quote the Handbook in about every fifth post these days. I strongly recommend that people interested in how the tournament teams are selected or how the tournament is run download the handbook from the NCAA site:
Click here to download the Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLN4j3CQXJgFjGpvqRqCKOcAFfj_zcVH1v_QD9gtzQiHJHRUUAc0tpTA!!/delta/base64xml/L3dJdyEvUUd3QndNQSEvNElVRS82XzBfTFU!?CONTENT_URL=http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_and_events/ncaa_publications/championship_handbooks/winter/basketball/mens/index.html)
By the way, the "measurements" for the women's tournament are 39-4-20.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2007, 03:12:28 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 12, 2007, 03:12:28 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 12, 2007, 12:09:27 PM
Ralph you have confused me, which is not hard to do.
You say there are four bids and others say three. Which is it?
Maryville has a better record, higher win %, and higher QOWI than Westminster and you have ranked Westminster 2 and Maryville 3. ??
Good point.
Since Maryville is ranked 4th in the South Region as well, I will move them up in my Pool B listing.
Westminster is probably closer to the bubble.
1) Aurora/NAthCon/21-1/19-2/.905/10.475/2 + conf. tourney (Ranked #4 in Midwest Region)
2) Maryville/GSAC/ 18-5/ 18-3/ .857/ 9.900/ 1 in-region + conf. tourney (Ranked #4 in the South Region)
3) Westminster PA/PresAC/16-7/14-3/ .824/ 9.118/ 2 + conf. tourney (Win over Bethany)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4) Lincoln PA/Ind/15-7/10-3/ .769/ 9.769/ (no tourney confirmed)* (Ranked #7 in the Mid-Atlantic Region.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Spencer Beaty on February 12, 2007, 09:18:29 PM
Post by: Spencer Beaty on February 12, 2007, 09:18:29 PM
two of maryville's losses are two either d2 teams or naia teams, because no one will play them. I cannot see why they would play us though there is nothing to gain for playing a team with no respect and everything to lose including the game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 13, 2007, 12:56:11 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 13, 2007, 12:56:11 PM
Ralph:
If I were to apply Spencer Beatty's logic for Maryville's record to Lincoln, four of the Lions seven losses were to DII or NAIA teams. As a matter of fact, Point Park (NAIA) in Pittsburgh is ranked sixth nationally, and the University of the District of Columbia is ranked eighth in DII's regional pool.
I know the PSU-Altoona loss really hurt Lincoln, and non D3 wins/losses ;) are taken into consideration for D3 playoff bids.
If I were to apply Spencer Beatty's logic for Maryville's record to Lincoln, four of the Lions seven losses were to DII or NAIA teams. As a matter of fact, Point Park (NAIA) in Pittsburgh is ranked sixth nationally, and the University of the District of Columbia is ranked eighth in DII's regional pool.
I know the PSU-Altoona loss really hurt Lincoln, and non D3 wins/losses ;) are taken into consideration for D3 playoff bids.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2007, 11:37:48 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2007, 11:37:48 AM
So where are we at now? (Ranked by QOWI number, every B team over 8.000)
1. Aurora is 19-2 with a 10.476 and they'll probably stay #4 in the Midwest. No wins over regionally ranked teams. They're probably a lock at this point, right?
2. Maryville is 18-3 with a 9.905 and they'll probably stay #4 in the South. They have a win over ranked team Centre.
3. Lincoln is 10-3 with a 9.769 and they'll probably stay #7 in the Mid-Atlantic. They have a win over ranked team Ramapo.
4. Westminster is 14-3 with a 9.118 and they don't break into the rankings this week. No wins over ranked teams.
5. Edgewood is 13-7 with an 8.80 and they don't have a shot at being ranked. They have a win over ranked team Aurora.
6. St. Joseph (ME) is 10-5 with an 8.667 and they don't have a shot at being ranked. They have a win over Husson, who is likely to be ranked this week.
7. Dominican is 12-9 with an 8.591 and they won't be ranked. No winds over ranked teams.
t8. Lakeland is 11-8 with an 8.316. Not ranked and no wins over ranked teams.
t8. Bethany is 14-5 with an 8.316. Not ranked and no wins over ranked teams.
10. Chapman is 11-5 with an 8.063. Not ranked and no wins over ranked teams.
11. Wisconsin Lutheran is 12-9 with an 8.048. Not ranked, but a win over ranked team Aurora.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2007, 11:40:09 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 14, 2007, 11:40:09 AM
At this point, I'd have to think Lincoln is above the PrAC winner.
I can't believe anyone below St Joe's even has a prayer at this point.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2007, 07:38:43 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 14, 2007, 07:38:43 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/02/14/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-2/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on February 15, 2007, 09:59:45 PM
Post by: Lefty on February 15, 2007, 09:59:45 PM
Lincoln beats NJCU 79-76.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 15, 2007, 10:30:53 PM
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 15, 2007, 10:30:53 PM
Edgewood routed Concordia-WI tonight.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2007, 08:40:53 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2007, 08:40:53 AM
Quote from: Lefty on February 15, 2007, 09:59:45 PM
Lincoln beats NJCU 79-76.
I think this puts Lincoln in a good spot.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 16, 2007, 10:15:17 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 16, 2007, 10:15:17 AM
Hoops Fan:
I hope you're right about Lincoln's NCAA chances. The win over a regionally ranked NJCU team should help out Lincoln's QOWI. Will Lincoln receive any votes in the Top 25 since the NJCU win? The Lions went 3-2 in the NJAC this year, sweeping NJCU, splitting with Ramapo and losing at Richard Stockton.
The Lions play D2 University of the District of Columbia, and PSU-Delaware County to complete the regular season.
I hope you're right about Lincoln's NCAA chances. The win over a regionally ranked NJCU team should help out Lincoln's QOWI. Will Lincoln receive any votes in the Top 25 since the NJCU win? The Lions went 3-2 in the NJAC this year, sweeping NJCU, splitting with Ramapo and losing at Richard Stockton.
The Lions play D2 University of the District of Columbia, and PSU-Delaware County to complete the regular season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2007, 10:32:47 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2007, 10:32:47 AM
The problem is that NJCU might not still be ranked in the final rankings, since they just lost a regional game and were last in the Atlantic.
I still think Lincoln has the resume to get it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 16, 2007, 11:37:09 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 16, 2007, 11:37:09 AM
Hoops Fan:
NJCU has a game with first place on the line with Ramapo coming up. If NJCU beats Ramapo (No. 1 in the Regionals), they may stay in the Regional rankings or even move up.
At this point I've got to root for a NJCU win!
NJCU has a game with first place on the line with Ramapo coming up. If NJCU beats Ramapo (No. 1 in the Regionals), they may stay in the Regional rankings or even move up.
At this point I've got to root for a NJCU win!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2007, 01:03:40 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 16, 2007, 01:03:40 PM
Yeah, if NJCU beats Ramapo and both remain in the rankings, Lincoln is sitting pretty and the PrAC might be sitting at home.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Lefty on February 17, 2007, 05:29:19 PM
Post by: Lefty on February 17, 2007, 05:29:19 PM
Quote from: njlincolnlion on February 16, 2007, 11:37:09 AM
NJCU has a game with first place on the line with Ramapo coming up. If NJCU beats Ramapo (No. 1 in the Regionals), they may stay in the Regional rankings or even move up.
At this point I've got to root for a NJCU win!
LincolnLion,
You got what you wanted! NJCU defeats Ramapo 79-64. It would help your case if Ramapo and NJCU meet in the NJAC finals.
Lefty
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 17, 2007, 07:22:59 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 17, 2007, 07:22:59 PM
Lefty:
Congratulations to the Gothic Knights on winning the NJAC regular season title. As you mentioned, I hope the Roadrunners meet the Gothic Knights in the NJAC Tournament finals with NJCU prevailing and getting the automatic bid. Good Luck and by the way Thanks for helping the Lions out by beating the Regionally No.1 ranked Roadrunners.
Congratulations to the Gothic Knights on winning the NJAC regular season title. As you mentioned, I hope the Roadrunners meet the Gothic Knights in the NJAC Tournament finals with NJCU prevailing and getting the automatic bid. Good Luck and by the way Thanks for helping the Lions out by beating the Regionally No.1 ranked Roadrunners.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Warren Thompson on February 18, 2007, 07:00:11 AM
Post by: Warren Thompson on February 18, 2007, 07:00:11 AM
'lion:
Why was the Lincoln v. UDC game cancelled?
Why was the Lincoln v. UDC game cancelled?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 18, 2007, 09:07:40 PM
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 18, 2007, 09:07:40 PM
Aurora earned the top seed for the upcoming NAthCon post-season tournament. Do the Spartans need to win out in order to get into Nationals?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2007, 09:44:26 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2007, 09:44:26 PM
Nationals? This isn't the NAIA. We just call it the NCAA Tournament here. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2007, 11:16:55 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 18, 2007, 11:16:55 PM
Quote from: WLCALUM83 on February 18, 2007, 09:07:40 PM
Aurora earned the top seed for the upcoming NAthCon post-season tournament. Do the Spartans need to win out in order to get into Nationals?
Even if they get upset in the NathCon tourney, I would think Aurora has a B locked up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 12:55:11 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 12:55:11 AM
Chapman is now 12-5 in the West Region and will likely get a bid to the Association of DIII Independents Tourney at Neb Wes next weekend, a four-team affair on Feb 23-24.
Does 14-5 with a marginal QOWI get them into Pool B? ???
Does 14-5 with a marginal QOWI get them into Pool B? ???
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2007, 01:06:35 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2007, 01:06:35 AM
Wouldn't be much different than their resume in previous years, I believe.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 01:17:42 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 01:17:42 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 12:55:11 AMHow close is Chapman (http://www.d3hoops.com/school_info.php?school=Chapman&team=m) from having the numbers?
Chapman is now 12-5 in the West Region and will likely get a bid to the Association of DIII Independents Tourney at Neb Wes next weekend, a four-team affair on Feb 23-24.
Does 14-5 with a marginal QOWI get them into Pool B? ???
Reversing a 3-point loss vs Whittier, a 3-point loss at Redlands and an OT loss vs. UPS would move them to 15-2 and give a QOWI in the 9.5 range. :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2007, 01:20:42 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2007, 01:20:42 AM
Nineteen regional games is far better than the 14, 12, 12 and eight Chapman played the previous three years. Almost as if Chapman is getting the hint five or six years into the game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 01:23:40 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2007, 01:23:40 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 19, 2007, 01:20:42 AM
Nineteen regional games is far better than the 14, 12, 12 and eight Chapman played the previous three years. Almost as if Chapman is getting the hint five or six years into the game.
The Chapman Baseball coach understands it. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 19, 2007, 08:38:34 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 19, 2007, 08:38:34 AM
Warren Thompson:
I've been away a few days, so I apologize for the delay. I don't know why the Lincoln/UDC game was cancelled, I'll call so of my contacts at Lincoln to see what happened.
I've been away a few days, so I apologize for the delay. I don't know why the Lincoln/UDC game was cancelled, I'll call so of my contacts at Lincoln to see what happened.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 19, 2007, 10:23:31 PM
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 19, 2007, 10:23:31 PM
Edgewood defeated Rockford in the Eagles' regular-season finale tonight.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2007, 05:01:51 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2007, 05:01:51 AM
OK, these passed a great deal of scrutiny tonight. Through Sunday's games:
Rank Points Team
1 11.818 UW-Stevens Point
2 11.750 Amherst
3 11.050 Trinity (Conn.)
4 10.810 Worcester Polytech
5 10.750 Salem State
6 10.739 Chicago
7 10.708 Rhode Island College
8 10.667 Mississippi College
9 10.667 Occidental
10 10.640 St. Thomas
11 10.600 Lake Erie
12 10.583 Brockport State
13 10.476 Washington U.
14 10.474 Messiah
15 10.429 DePauw
16 10.375 Virginia Wesleyan
17 10.364 Ramapo
18 10.364 UW-Oshkosh
19 10.318 St. John's
20 10.318 John Carroll
21 10.316 Wooster
22 10.304 Aurora
23 10.292 St. Lawrence
24 10.273 Keene State
25 10.250 Augustana
26 10.208 St. John Fisher
27 10.182 Johns Hopkins
28 10.143 Lincoln
29 10.130 Rochester
30 10.120 Stevens
31 10.100 Ohio Northern
32 10.042 Brandeis
33 10.000 Guilford
34 10.000 Catholic
35 9.960 Mary Hardin-Baylor
36 9.958 Bates
37 9.957 Hood
38 9.950 Wittenberg
39 9.944 Centre
40 9.905 Loras
41 9.875 Manhattanville
42 9.870 New York University
43 9.870 Scranton
44 9.864 Whitworth
45 9.864 Maryville (Tenn.)
46 9.857 UW-La Crosse
47 9.765 Hope
48 9.762 Hamilton
49 9.739 New Jersey City
50 9.682 Alvernia
51 9.650 Elmhurst
52 9.636 McMurry
53 9.625 King's
54 9.609 Husson
55 9.600 Averett
56 9.600 Carthage
57 9.591 Grinnell
58 9.529 Lewis and Clark
59 9.500 Rowan
60 9.500 Capital
61 9.500 Richard Stockton
62 9.480 Tufts
63 9.458 Bridgewater State
64 9.458 Babson
65 9.450 Baldwin-Wallace
66 9.440 Western New England
67 9.435 Utica
68 9.400 Redlands
69 9.368 Wheaton (Ill.)
70 9.364 FDU-Florham
71 9.318 DeSales
72 9.316 Westminster (Pa.)
73 9.280 York (Pa.)
74 9.263 Cal Lutheran
75 9.261 Otterbein
76 9.250 Plattsburgh State
77 9.238 Bluffton
78 9.200 UW-Whitewater
79 9.190 Villa Julie
80 9.190 Colby
81 9.176 North Central
82 9.174 Penn State-Behrend
83 9.136 SUNY-Farmingdale
84 9.125 William Paterson
85 9.083 Transylvania
86 9.053 Millsaps
87 9.050 Puget Sound
88 9.000 Greensboro
89 9.000 Coe
90 9.000 Carroll
91 9.000 Pomona-Pitzer
92 9.000 SUNY-Old Westbury
93 9.000 Susquehanna
94 8.957 Geneseo State
95 8.955 Ursinus
96 8.917 Bethel
97 8.909 Gordon
98 8.875 Lasell
99 8.870 Rutgers-Newark
100 8.833 Elms
101 8.810 Simpson
102 8.783 Williams
103 8.760 Middlebury
104 8.727 Vassar
105 8.708 Franklin
106 8.700 Buena Vista
107 8.682 Edgewood
108 8.682 Oswego State
109 8.680 Clarkson
110 8.667 Defiance
111 8.667 Endicott
112 8.652 Texas-Dallas
113 8.619 Baptist Bible
114 8.619 Juniata
115 8.619 Ohio Wesleyan
116 8.619 Carnegie Mellon
117 8.591 SUNYIT
118 8.588 Calvin
119 8.560 Dominican
120 8.545 Emerson
121 8.545 Mary Washington
122 8.542 St. Joseph's (L.I.)
123 8.542 Bowdoin
124 8.524 Ithaca
125 8.524 Hanover
126 8.524 Manchester
127 8.522 Rochester Tech
128 8.500 Haverford
129 8.500 Mt. St. Joseph
130 8.455 Lake Forest
131 8.450 UW-Platteville
132 8.435 Heidelberg
133 8.429 Webster
134 8.429 Ripon
135 8.400 Bethany
136 8.364 York (N.Y.)
137 8.353 St. Joseph's (Maine)
138 8.348 Mass-Dartmouth
139 8.333 St. Mary's (Md.)
140 8.320 Springfield
141 8.318 Westfield State
142 8.286 Trinity (Texas)
143 8.267 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
144 8.238 Lawrence
145 8.227 LeTourneau
146 8.227 Kings Point
147 8.200 MacMurray
148 8.188 Tri-State
149 8.182 Wilkes
150 8.174 Rivier
151 8.167 Hendrix
152 8.143 Eastern Connecticut
153 8.143 Lycoming
154 8.130 Western Connecticut
155 8.125 MIT
156 8.118 Chapman
157 8.105 Marymount
158 8.087 Wisconsin Lutheran
159 8.083 Wilmington
160 8.045 Lakeland
161 8.043 Roger Williams
162 8.000 Yeshiva
163 8.000 Carleton
164 8.000 Muskingum
165 7.960 Hardin-Simmons
166 7.944 Albion
167 7.917 RPI
168 7.913 North Park
169 7.909 Gwynedd-Mercy
170 7.889 Pacific
171 7.875 Gustavus Adolphus
172 7.870 Lebanon Valley
173 7.857 Union
174 7.842 Illinois Wesleyan
175 7.833 Oglethorpe
176 7.818 Chestnut Hill
177 7.800 Roanoke
178 7.800 Oneonta State
179 7.792 Wentworth Tech
180 7.792 Curry
181 7.773 Gettysburg
182 7.773 Kean
183 7.773 Alfred
184 7.762 Buffalo State
185 7.762 New Jersey
186 7.750 LaGrange
187 7.750 Nichols
188 7.750 Montclair State
189 7.739 Widener
190 7.708 Hobart
191 7.682 Norwich
192 7.652 Nazareth
193 7.636 Clark
194 7.600 Pitt-Bradford
195 7.591 Castleton State
196 7.591 Albright
197 7.591 Mount Union
198 7.588 Fontbonne
199 7.571 Southwestern
200 7.550 Eureka
Rank Points Team
1 11.818 UW-Stevens Point
2 11.750 Amherst
3 11.050 Trinity (Conn.)
4 10.810 Worcester Polytech
5 10.750 Salem State
6 10.739 Chicago
7 10.708 Rhode Island College
8 10.667 Mississippi College
9 10.667 Occidental
10 10.640 St. Thomas
11 10.600 Lake Erie
12 10.583 Brockport State
13 10.476 Washington U.
14 10.474 Messiah
15 10.429 DePauw
16 10.375 Virginia Wesleyan
17 10.364 Ramapo
18 10.364 UW-Oshkosh
19 10.318 St. John's
20 10.318 John Carroll
21 10.316 Wooster
22 10.304 Aurora
23 10.292 St. Lawrence
24 10.273 Keene State
25 10.250 Augustana
26 10.208 St. John Fisher
27 10.182 Johns Hopkins
28 10.143 Lincoln
29 10.130 Rochester
30 10.120 Stevens
31 10.100 Ohio Northern
32 10.042 Brandeis
33 10.000 Guilford
34 10.000 Catholic
35 9.960 Mary Hardin-Baylor
36 9.958 Bates
37 9.957 Hood
38 9.950 Wittenberg
39 9.944 Centre
40 9.905 Loras
41 9.875 Manhattanville
42 9.870 New York University
43 9.870 Scranton
44 9.864 Whitworth
45 9.864 Maryville (Tenn.)
46 9.857 UW-La Crosse
47 9.765 Hope
48 9.762 Hamilton
49 9.739 New Jersey City
50 9.682 Alvernia
51 9.650 Elmhurst
52 9.636 McMurry
53 9.625 King's
54 9.609 Husson
55 9.600 Averett
56 9.600 Carthage
57 9.591 Grinnell
58 9.529 Lewis and Clark
59 9.500 Rowan
60 9.500 Capital
61 9.500 Richard Stockton
62 9.480 Tufts
63 9.458 Bridgewater State
64 9.458 Babson
65 9.450 Baldwin-Wallace
66 9.440 Western New England
67 9.435 Utica
68 9.400 Redlands
69 9.368 Wheaton (Ill.)
70 9.364 FDU-Florham
71 9.318 DeSales
72 9.316 Westminster (Pa.)
73 9.280 York (Pa.)
74 9.263 Cal Lutheran
75 9.261 Otterbein
76 9.250 Plattsburgh State
77 9.238 Bluffton
78 9.200 UW-Whitewater
79 9.190 Villa Julie
80 9.190 Colby
81 9.176 North Central
82 9.174 Penn State-Behrend
83 9.136 SUNY-Farmingdale
84 9.125 William Paterson
85 9.083 Transylvania
86 9.053 Millsaps
87 9.050 Puget Sound
88 9.000 Greensboro
89 9.000 Coe
90 9.000 Carroll
91 9.000 Pomona-Pitzer
92 9.000 SUNY-Old Westbury
93 9.000 Susquehanna
94 8.957 Geneseo State
95 8.955 Ursinus
96 8.917 Bethel
97 8.909 Gordon
98 8.875 Lasell
99 8.870 Rutgers-Newark
100 8.833 Elms
101 8.810 Simpson
102 8.783 Williams
103 8.760 Middlebury
104 8.727 Vassar
105 8.708 Franklin
106 8.700 Buena Vista
107 8.682 Edgewood
108 8.682 Oswego State
109 8.680 Clarkson
110 8.667 Defiance
111 8.667 Endicott
112 8.652 Texas-Dallas
113 8.619 Baptist Bible
114 8.619 Juniata
115 8.619 Ohio Wesleyan
116 8.619 Carnegie Mellon
117 8.591 SUNYIT
118 8.588 Calvin
119 8.560 Dominican
120 8.545 Emerson
121 8.545 Mary Washington
122 8.542 St. Joseph's (L.I.)
123 8.542 Bowdoin
124 8.524 Ithaca
125 8.524 Hanover
126 8.524 Manchester
127 8.522 Rochester Tech
128 8.500 Haverford
129 8.500 Mt. St. Joseph
130 8.455 Lake Forest
131 8.450 UW-Platteville
132 8.435 Heidelberg
133 8.429 Webster
134 8.429 Ripon
135 8.400 Bethany
136 8.364 York (N.Y.)
137 8.353 St. Joseph's (Maine)
138 8.348 Mass-Dartmouth
139 8.333 St. Mary's (Md.)
140 8.320 Springfield
141 8.318 Westfield State
142 8.286 Trinity (Texas)
143 8.267 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps
144 8.238 Lawrence
145 8.227 LeTourneau
146 8.227 Kings Point
147 8.200 MacMurray
148 8.188 Tri-State
149 8.182 Wilkes
150 8.174 Rivier
151 8.167 Hendrix
152 8.143 Eastern Connecticut
153 8.143 Lycoming
154 8.130 Western Connecticut
155 8.125 MIT
156 8.118 Chapman
157 8.105 Marymount
158 8.087 Wisconsin Lutheran
159 8.083 Wilmington
160 8.045 Lakeland
161 8.043 Roger Williams
162 8.000 Yeshiva
163 8.000 Carleton
164 8.000 Muskingum
165 7.960 Hardin-Simmons
166 7.944 Albion
167 7.917 RPI
168 7.913 North Park
169 7.909 Gwynedd-Mercy
170 7.889 Pacific
171 7.875 Gustavus Adolphus
172 7.870 Lebanon Valley
173 7.857 Union
174 7.842 Illinois Wesleyan
175 7.833 Oglethorpe
176 7.818 Chestnut Hill
177 7.800 Roanoke
178 7.800 Oneonta State
179 7.792 Wentworth Tech
180 7.792 Curry
181 7.773 Gettysburg
182 7.773 Kean
183 7.773 Alfred
184 7.762 Buffalo State
185 7.762 New Jersey
186 7.750 LaGrange
187 7.750 Nichols
188 7.750 Montclair State
189 7.739 Widener
190 7.708 Hobart
191 7.682 Norwich
192 7.652 Nazareth
193 7.636 Clark
194 7.600 Pitt-Bradford
195 7.591 Castleton State
196 7.591 Albright
197 7.591 Mount Union
198 7.588 Fontbonne
199 7.571 Southwestern
200 7.550 Eureka
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2007, 05:03:46 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2007, 05:03:46 PM
Pat Coleman:
Thanks for the above update, and the great job you did. The latest results have Lincoln moving ahead of Maryville TN for second place behind Aurora in Pool B.
Thanks for the above update, and the great job you did. The latest results have Lincoln moving ahead of Maryville TN for second place behind Aurora in Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2007, 05:56:13 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2007, 05:56:13 PM
Lincoln plays PSU-Delaware County tonight at Lincoln to complete the regular season.
The Lions travel to Maine to play in the Association of D3 Independents at St. Joseph's College. Lincoln ranked No.1 in the tourney plays #4 Newbury, while No. 2 St. Joseph plays #3 Mitchell 0n 2/23/2007. The consolation and championship games are played on 2/24/2007.
The Lions travel to Maine to play in the Association of D3 Independents at St. Joseph's College. Lincoln ranked No.1 in the tourney plays #4 Newbury, while No. 2 St. Joseph plays #3 Mitchell 0n 2/23/2007. The consolation and championship games are played on 2/24/2007.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2007, 06:07:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 20, 2007, 06:07:36 PM
You're playing Newbury. Newberry is a school you might be playing in the future in moving down to D-II.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2007, 06:20:25 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 20, 2007, 06:20:25 PM
Thanks Pat, :-[ I stand corrected and amended the post (Newbury). when Lincoln moves down to DII, I'll still be on board following Salisbury. Again thanks for the correction, and the Lions will possibly get a look at Newberry in the future.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2007, 12:44:48 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2007, 12:44:48 PM
1 11.652 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.957 (22-1) 23-2
2 11.625 1 Amherst 0.958 (23-1) 24-1
3 10.950 2 Trinity (Conn.) 0.850 (17-3) 21-3
4 10.810 3 Worcester Polytech 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
5 10.708 4 Salem State 0.920 (23-2) 23-2
6 10.696 1 Chicago 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
7 10.667 1 Mississippi College 0.952 (20-1) 22-2
8 10.640 2 St. Thomas 0.880 (22-3) 22-3
9 10.600 1 Lake Erie 0.950 (19-1) 23-2
10 10.520 5 Rhode Island College 0.880 (22-3) 22-3
11 10.400 1 Brockport State 0.840 (21-4) 22-4
12 10.381 2 Washington U. 0.810 (17-4) 19-4
13 10.375 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.875 (21-3) 22-3
14 10.333 3 Aurora 0.913 (21-2) 23-2
15 10.318 3 St. John's 0.864 (19-3) 19-6
16 10.292 2 St. Lawrence 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
17 10.261 1 Ramapo 0.783 (18-5) 19-7
18 10.250 4 Occidental 0.813 (13-3) 18-5
19 10.250 4 Augustana 0.833 (20-4) 20-5
20 10.238 3 DePauw 0.900 (18-2) 21-4
21 10.217 3 Rochester 0.739 (17-6) 17-7
22 10.217 6 Keene State 0.826 (19-4) 22-4
23 10.208 4 St. John Fisher 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
24 10.174 5 UW-Oshkosh 0.783 (18-5) 21-5
25 10.174 1 Johns Hopkins 0.864 (19-3) 21-4
26 10.136 2 John Carroll 0.727 (16-6) 17-8
27 10.125 7 Brandeis 0.750 (18-6) 18-6
28 10.105 2 Messiah 0.842 (16-3) 19-5
29 10.038 2 Stevens 0.808 (21-5) 21-5
30 10.000 4 Guilford 0.870 (20-3) 21-3
31 10.000 5 Averett 0.800 (16-4) 18-6
32 10.000 3 Catholic 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
33 10.000 4 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 17-7
34 10.000 3 Wooster 0.900 (18-2) 23-3
35 9.960 6 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.840 (21-4) 21-4
36 9.909 6 Whitworth 0.864 (19-3) 22-3
37 9.905 7 Loras 0.810 (17-4) 19-6
38 9.900 4 Ohio Northern 0.700 (14-6) 19-6
39 9.875 5 Hood 0.792 (19-5) 20-6
40 9.870 5 New York University 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
41 9.870 6 Scranton 0.739 (17-6) 19-6
42 9.864 8 UW-La Crosse 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
43 9.800 3 Manhattanville 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
44 9.792 8 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
45 9.778 7 Centre 0.778 (14-4) 20-4
46 9.773 8 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.864 (19-3) 19-6
47 9.765 5 Hope 0.824 (14-3) 21-3
48 9.762 6 Hamilton 0.714 (15-6) 18-6
49 9.739 7 Alvernia 0.913 (21-2) 22-4
50 9.737 6 Westminster (Pa.) 0.842 (16-3) 18-7
51 9.708 9 Husson 0.875 (21-3) 21-5
52 9.652 4 New Jersey City 0.696 (16-7) 17-8
53 9.650 5 Elmhurst 0.750 (15-5) 19-5
54 9.636 9 McMurry 0.818 (18-4) 19-6
55 9.625 8 King's 0.708 (17-7) 17-8
56 9.529 9 Lewis and Clark 0.765 (13-4) 18-6
57 9.500 6 Carthage 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
58 9.500 7 Capital 0.667 (16-8) 16-8
59 9.476 8 Wittenberg 0.810 (17-4) 22-4
60 9.409 7 Grinnell 0.727 (16-6) 17-6
61 9.364 9 FDU-Florham 0.636 (14-8) 17-8
62 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
63 9.348 7 Utica 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
64 9.346 11 Western New England 0.731 (19-7) 19-7
65 9.318 10 DeSales 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
66 9.316 8 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.632 (12-7) 16-8
67 9.300 5 Rowan 0.750 (15-5) 20-5
68 9.292 12 Babson 0.625 (15-9) 16-9
69 9.273 10 Greensboro 0.773 (17-5) 20-6
70 9.250 13 Bridgewater State 0.708 (17-7) 17-7
71 9.250 9 Baldwin-Wallace 0.700 (14-6) 17-8
72 9.238 6 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
73 9.231 10 UW-Whitewater 0.692 (18-8) 18-8
74 9.190 8 Plattsburgh State 0.714 (15-6) 18-8
75 9.190 14 Colby 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
76 9.174 7 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
77 9.136 11 Villa Julie 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
78 9.130 10 Penn State-Behrend 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
79 9.111 9 North Central 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
80 9.087 11 Otterbein 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
81 9.050 11 Puget Sound 0.750 (15-5) 18-6
82 9.042 12 Coe 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
83 9.042 8 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
84 9.000 13 Redlands 0.750 (12-4) 16-7
85 9.000 14 Pomona-Pitzer 0.667 (10-5) 15-8
86 9.000 10 Carroll 0.667 (14-7) 14-8
87 9.000 11 Millsaps 0.737 (14-5) 17-8
88 8.955 9 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
89 8.955 12 Ursinus 0.682 (15-7) 16-9
90 8.950 15 Cal Lutheran 0.650 (13-7) 17-7
91 8.917 11 Transylvania 0.667 (16-8) 17-8
92 8.917 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.625 (15-9) 17-9
93 8.885 13 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
94 8.870 15 Gordon 0.696 (16-7) 19-7
95 8.864 16 Simpson 0.636 (14-8) 18-8
96 8.850 12 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-11
97 8.826 14 Mary Washington 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
98 8.826 15 Susquehanna 0.609 (14-9) 16-9
99 8.800 16 Elms 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
100 8.769 17 Lasell 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
101 8.750 12 Bluffton 0.667 (14-7) 18-7
102 8.727 9 Vassar 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
103 8.720 17 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
104 8.720 18 Endicott 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
105 8.714 16 Juniata 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
106 8.700 18 Buena Vista 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
107 8.696 13 Edgewood 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
108 8.696 10 Oswego State 0.609 (14-9) 15-11
109 8.696 19 Williams 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
110 8.692 14 Dominican 0.654 (17-9) 17-9
111 8.682 17 Baptist Bible 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
112 8.680 11 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
113 8.667 12 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
114 8.667 13 Bethany 0.714 (15-6) 19-7
115 8.652 12 Texas-Dallas 0.696 (16-7) 18-7
116 8.600 20 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
117 8.588 14 Calvin 0.647 (11-6) 15-9
118 8.524 15 Webster 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
119 8.522 13 Rochester Tech 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
120 8.520 18 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
121 8.500 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.583 (14-10) 14-12
122 8.500 19 Haverford 0.600 (12-8) 13-11
123 8.500 15 Ohio Wesleyan 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
124 8.480 11 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
125 8.478 22 Westfield State 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
126 8.429 14 Ithaca 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
127 8.400 16 MacMurray 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
128 8.391 15 SUNYIT 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
129 8.381 19 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
130 8.364 17 Lake Forest 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
131 8.333 23 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
132 8.304 24 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
133 8.292 18 Franklin 0.625 (15-9) 16-9
134 8.286 19 Defiance 0.619 (13-8) 16-8
135 8.286 13 Trinity (Texas) 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
136 8.273 12 York (N.Y.) 0.682 (15-7) 16-10
137 8.261 20 Lakeland 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
138 8.240 25 Springfield 0.480 (12-13) 12-13
139 8.238 21 Ripon 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
140 8.227 14 LeTourneau 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
141 8.208 26 Rivier 0.708 (17-7) 18-8
142 8.190 22 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
143 8.188 16 Tri-State 0.625 (10-6) 15-8
144 8.182 20 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
145 8.174 17 Heidelberg 0.522 (12-11) 13-12
146 8.143 23 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
147 8.143 21 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
148 8.125 27 MIT 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
149 8.118 20 Chapman 0.706 (12-5) 19-5
150 8.111 15 Hendrix 0.556 (10-8) 15-9
151 8.056 28 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.611 (11-7) 17-7
152 8.048 24 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
153 8.040 21 Gustavus Adolphus 0.560 (14-11) 14-12
154 7.960 16 Hardin-Simmons 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
155 7.958 29 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
156 7.955 30 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
157 7.944 18 Albion 0.556 (10-8) 10-14
158 7.920 31 Wentworth Tech 0.600 (15-10) 15-11
159 7.917 25 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
160 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
161 7.917 19 Wilmington 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
162 7.913 26 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
163 7.913 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
164 7.913 22 Chestnut Hill 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
165 7.909 27 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
166 7.900 23 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
167 7.889 22 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
168 7.889 28 Fontbonne 0.556 (10-8) 14-11
169 7.875 23 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.563 (9-7) 14-10
170 7.875 17 LaGrange 0.625 (10-6) 17-8
171 7.875 18 Oglethorpe 0.542 (13-11) 14-11
172 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
173 7.857 17 Union 0.524 (11-10) 11-13
174 7.800 19 Roanoke 0.600 (12-8) 15-10
175 7.792 14 Yeshiva 0.542 (13-11) 15-11
176 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
177 7.773 24 Gettysburg 0.545 (12-10) 12-12
178 7.762 29 Eureka 0.571 (12-9) 15-9
179 7.739 20 Muskingum 0.478 (11-12) 12-12
180 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
181 7.720 32 Curry 0.560 (14-11) 14-12
182 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
183 7.700 30 Illinois Wesleyan 0.400 (8-12) 11-14
184 7.696 25 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
185 7.692 26 Pitt-Bradford 0.538 (14-12) 14-12
186 7.680 25 St. Olaf 0.520 (13-12) 13-13
187 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
188 7.650 15 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
189 7.636 33 Clark 0.455 (10-12) 11-13
190 7.625 34 Roger Williams 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
191 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
192 7.591 16 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
193 7.579 20 Methodist 0.421 (8-11) 11-14
194 7.571 21 Southwestern 0.476 (10-11) 11-14
195 7.565 35 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
196 7.565 27 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
197 7.565 28 Widener 0.478 (11-12) 12-12
198 7.545 22 Hampden-Sydney 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
199 7.545 23 Emory 0.318 (7-15) 8-16
200 7.545 17 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
2 11.625 1 Amherst 0.958 (23-1) 24-1
3 10.950 2 Trinity (Conn.) 0.850 (17-3) 21-3
4 10.810 3 Worcester Polytech 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
5 10.708 4 Salem State 0.920 (23-2) 23-2
6 10.696 1 Chicago 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
7 10.667 1 Mississippi College 0.952 (20-1) 22-2
8 10.640 2 St. Thomas 0.880 (22-3) 22-3
9 10.600 1 Lake Erie 0.950 (19-1) 23-2
10 10.520 5 Rhode Island College 0.880 (22-3) 22-3
11 10.400 1 Brockport State 0.840 (21-4) 22-4
12 10.381 2 Washington U. 0.810 (17-4) 19-4
13 10.375 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.875 (21-3) 22-3
14 10.333 3 Aurora 0.913 (21-2) 23-2
15 10.318 3 St. John's 0.864 (19-3) 19-6
16 10.292 2 St. Lawrence 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
17 10.261 1 Ramapo 0.783 (18-5) 19-7
18 10.250 4 Occidental 0.813 (13-3) 18-5
19 10.250 4 Augustana 0.833 (20-4) 20-5
20 10.238 3 DePauw 0.900 (18-2) 21-4
21 10.217 3 Rochester 0.739 (17-6) 17-7
22 10.217 6 Keene State 0.826 (19-4) 22-4
23 10.208 4 St. John Fisher 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
24 10.174 5 UW-Oshkosh 0.783 (18-5) 21-5
25 10.174 1 Johns Hopkins 0.864 (19-3) 21-4
26 10.136 2 John Carroll 0.727 (16-6) 17-8
27 10.125 7 Brandeis 0.750 (18-6) 18-6
28 10.105 2 Messiah 0.842 (16-3) 19-5
29 10.038 2 Stevens 0.808 (21-5) 21-5
30 10.000 4 Guilford 0.870 (20-3) 21-3
31 10.000 5 Averett 0.800 (16-4) 18-6
32 10.000 3 Catholic 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
33 10.000 4 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 17-7
34 10.000 3 Wooster 0.900 (18-2) 23-3
35 9.960 6 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.840 (21-4) 21-4
36 9.909 6 Whitworth 0.864 (19-3) 22-3
37 9.905 7 Loras 0.810 (17-4) 19-6
38 9.900 4 Ohio Northern 0.700 (14-6) 19-6
39 9.875 5 Hood 0.792 (19-5) 20-6
40 9.870 5 New York University 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
41 9.870 6 Scranton 0.739 (17-6) 19-6
42 9.864 8 UW-La Crosse 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
43 9.800 3 Manhattanville 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
44 9.792 8 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
45 9.778 7 Centre 0.778 (14-4) 20-4
46 9.773 8 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.864 (19-3) 19-6
47 9.765 5 Hope 0.824 (14-3) 21-3
48 9.762 6 Hamilton 0.714 (15-6) 18-6
49 9.739 7 Alvernia 0.913 (21-2) 22-4
50 9.737 6 Westminster (Pa.) 0.842 (16-3) 18-7
51 9.708 9 Husson 0.875 (21-3) 21-5
52 9.652 4 New Jersey City 0.696 (16-7) 17-8
53 9.650 5 Elmhurst 0.750 (15-5) 19-5
54 9.636 9 McMurry 0.818 (18-4) 19-6
55 9.625 8 King's 0.708 (17-7) 17-8
56 9.529 9 Lewis and Clark 0.765 (13-4) 18-6
57 9.500 6 Carthage 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
58 9.500 7 Capital 0.667 (16-8) 16-8
59 9.476 8 Wittenberg 0.810 (17-4) 22-4
60 9.409 7 Grinnell 0.727 (16-6) 17-6
61 9.364 9 FDU-Florham 0.636 (14-8) 17-8
62 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
63 9.348 7 Utica 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
64 9.346 11 Western New England 0.731 (19-7) 19-7
65 9.318 10 DeSales 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
66 9.316 8 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.632 (12-7) 16-8
67 9.300 5 Rowan 0.750 (15-5) 20-5
68 9.292 12 Babson 0.625 (15-9) 16-9
69 9.273 10 Greensboro 0.773 (17-5) 20-6
70 9.250 13 Bridgewater State 0.708 (17-7) 17-7
71 9.250 9 Baldwin-Wallace 0.700 (14-6) 17-8
72 9.238 6 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
73 9.231 10 UW-Whitewater 0.692 (18-8) 18-8
74 9.190 8 Plattsburgh State 0.714 (15-6) 18-8
75 9.190 14 Colby 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
76 9.174 7 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
77 9.136 11 Villa Julie 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
78 9.130 10 Penn State-Behrend 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
79 9.111 9 North Central 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
80 9.087 11 Otterbein 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
81 9.050 11 Puget Sound 0.750 (15-5) 18-6
82 9.042 12 Coe 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
83 9.042 8 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
84 9.000 13 Redlands 0.750 (12-4) 16-7
85 9.000 14 Pomona-Pitzer 0.667 (10-5) 15-8
86 9.000 10 Carroll 0.667 (14-7) 14-8
87 9.000 11 Millsaps 0.737 (14-5) 17-8
88 8.955 9 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
89 8.955 12 Ursinus 0.682 (15-7) 16-9
90 8.950 15 Cal Lutheran 0.650 (13-7) 17-7
91 8.917 11 Transylvania 0.667 (16-8) 17-8
92 8.917 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.625 (15-9) 17-9
93 8.885 13 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
94 8.870 15 Gordon 0.696 (16-7) 19-7
95 8.864 16 Simpson 0.636 (14-8) 18-8
96 8.850 12 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-11
97 8.826 14 Mary Washington 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
98 8.826 15 Susquehanna 0.609 (14-9) 16-9
99 8.800 16 Elms 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
100 8.769 17 Lasell 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
101 8.750 12 Bluffton 0.667 (14-7) 18-7
102 8.727 9 Vassar 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
103 8.720 17 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
104 8.720 18 Endicott 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
105 8.714 16 Juniata 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
106 8.700 18 Buena Vista 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
107 8.696 13 Edgewood 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
108 8.696 10 Oswego State 0.609 (14-9) 15-11
109 8.696 19 Williams 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
110 8.692 14 Dominican 0.654 (17-9) 17-9
111 8.682 17 Baptist Bible 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
112 8.680 11 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
113 8.667 12 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
114 8.667 13 Bethany 0.714 (15-6) 19-7
115 8.652 12 Texas-Dallas 0.696 (16-7) 18-7
116 8.600 20 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
117 8.588 14 Calvin 0.647 (11-6) 15-9
118 8.524 15 Webster 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
119 8.522 13 Rochester Tech 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
120 8.520 18 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
121 8.500 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.583 (14-10) 14-12
122 8.500 19 Haverford 0.600 (12-8) 13-11
123 8.500 15 Ohio Wesleyan 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
124 8.480 11 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
125 8.478 22 Westfield State 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
126 8.429 14 Ithaca 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
127 8.400 16 MacMurray 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
128 8.391 15 SUNYIT 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
129 8.381 19 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
130 8.364 17 Lake Forest 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
131 8.333 23 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
132 8.304 24 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
133 8.292 18 Franklin 0.625 (15-9) 16-9
134 8.286 19 Defiance 0.619 (13-8) 16-8
135 8.286 13 Trinity (Texas) 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
136 8.273 12 York (N.Y.) 0.682 (15-7) 16-10
137 8.261 20 Lakeland 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
138 8.240 25 Springfield 0.480 (12-13) 12-13
139 8.238 21 Ripon 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
140 8.227 14 LeTourneau 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
141 8.208 26 Rivier 0.708 (17-7) 18-8
142 8.190 22 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
143 8.188 16 Tri-State 0.625 (10-6) 15-8
144 8.182 20 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
145 8.174 17 Heidelberg 0.522 (12-11) 13-12
146 8.143 23 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
147 8.143 21 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
148 8.125 27 MIT 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
149 8.118 20 Chapman 0.706 (12-5) 19-5
150 8.111 15 Hendrix 0.556 (10-8) 15-9
151 8.056 28 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.611 (11-7) 17-7
152 8.048 24 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
153 8.040 21 Gustavus Adolphus 0.560 (14-11) 14-12
154 7.960 16 Hardin-Simmons 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
155 7.958 29 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
156 7.955 30 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
157 7.944 18 Albion 0.556 (10-8) 10-14
158 7.920 31 Wentworth Tech 0.600 (15-10) 15-11
159 7.917 25 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
160 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
161 7.917 19 Wilmington 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
162 7.913 26 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
163 7.913 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
164 7.913 22 Chestnut Hill 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
165 7.909 27 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
166 7.900 23 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
167 7.889 22 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
168 7.889 28 Fontbonne 0.556 (10-8) 14-11
169 7.875 23 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.563 (9-7) 14-10
170 7.875 17 LaGrange 0.625 (10-6) 17-8
171 7.875 18 Oglethorpe 0.542 (13-11) 14-11
172 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
173 7.857 17 Union 0.524 (11-10) 11-13
174 7.800 19 Roanoke 0.600 (12-8) 15-10
175 7.792 14 Yeshiva 0.542 (13-11) 15-11
176 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
177 7.773 24 Gettysburg 0.545 (12-10) 12-12
178 7.762 29 Eureka 0.571 (12-9) 15-9
179 7.739 20 Muskingum 0.478 (11-12) 12-12
180 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
181 7.720 32 Curry 0.560 (14-11) 14-12
182 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
183 7.700 30 Illinois Wesleyan 0.400 (8-12) 11-14
184 7.696 25 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
185 7.692 26 Pitt-Bradford 0.538 (14-12) 14-12
186 7.680 25 St. Olaf 0.520 (13-12) 13-13
187 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
188 7.650 15 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
189 7.636 33 Clark 0.455 (10-12) 11-13
190 7.625 34 Roger Williams 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
191 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
192 7.591 16 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
193 7.579 20 Methodist 0.421 (8-11) 11-14
194 7.571 21 Southwestern 0.476 (10-11) 11-14
195 7.565 35 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
196 7.565 27 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
197 7.565 28 Widener 0.478 (11-12) 12-12
198 7.545 22 Hampden-Sydney 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
199 7.545 23 Emory 0.318 (7-15) 8-16
200 7.545 17 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 21, 2007, 07:28:10 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 21, 2007, 07:28:10 PM
Lincoln moves up to the fourth spot in the final regional rankings behind Johns Hopkins, Messiah, and Alvernia.
The Lions beat Messiah last year in the NCAA's at home, but this year the Lions will be playing on the road if they make the NCAA's. Additionally, the Lions are #2 behind Aurora for the Pool B bid.
The Lions beat Messiah last year in the NCAA's at home, but this year the Lions will be playing on the road if they make the NCAA's. Additionally, the Lions are #2 behind Aurora for the Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2007, 02:15:40 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2007, 02:15:40 PM
Pool C shocker, news on front page. (http://www.d3hoops.com)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 02:18:39 PM
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 02:18:39 PM
Boy, they sure are on top of things this year. ::)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 22, 2007, 02:21:39 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on February 22, 2007, 02:21:39 PM
What a disgusting mistake by the NCAA!!!! >:( Honestly, this may be the fair outcome for the Pool B teams but to only recognize this error days before selections are made!!! The NCAA makes Enron look like a well organized entity.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2007, 02:49:11 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 22, 2007, 02:49:11 PM
I posted a blog on this topic out front, too. If you guys have registered for the blog (easier than registering for the message board!) you might want to leave your thoughts out there, too, in public, where the number of comments can help underscore the severity of the situation.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 22, 2007, 05:46:19 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 22, 2007, 05:46:19 PM
I didn't understand why the B's were reduce by one and the C's were increased by one in the first place. Now I have my answer :D .
Pat thanks for the blog!
Pat thanks for the blog!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 22, 2007, 06:07:47 PM
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 22, 2007, 06:07:47 PM
Pat----
Since the NCAA is in the mood fixing things, then fix this...........Aurora, Edgewood, Dominican and Lakeland all from the NathC. This makes no sense to me that more than one of them get a pool B. I know they don't get an automatic due to the newly formed league, but it just seems fishy to the rest of the pool C's that they would allow this to happen. They should allow the first place team to get the pool b, and put the rest in pool C. Same with the PrAC. Pool B was intended for independents and teams that are in leagues that have 6 or less teams. I'm a fan of chapman and this adding one probably won't help them, but this has to be fixed, don't you think.
Aurora 10.3 game friday -vs- Lakeland
Lincoln 10.0
Maryville(tn) 9.773 game friday -vs- Huntingdon
Westminster 9.737 game tonight -vs- Grove City
Edgewood 8.696 game friday @ Dominican
Dominican 8.692 game friday -vs- Edgewood
Bethany 8.667 game tonight -vs- Wash & Jeff
Lakeland 8.261 game friday @ Aurora
Chapman 8.118 game friday -vs- Colo. College (@ Nebra Wesl)
St. Joseph 8.056 game friday -vs- Mitchell
Since the NCAA is in the mood fixing things, then fix this...........Aurora, Edgewood, Dominican and Lakeland all from the NathC. This makes no sense to me that more than one of them get a pool B. I know they don't get an automatic due to the newly formed league, but it just seems fishy to the rest of the pool C's that they would allow this to happen. They should allow the first place team to get the pool b, and put the rest in pool C. Same with the PrAC. Pool B was intended for independents and teams that are in leagues that have 6 or less teams. I'm a fan of chapman and this adding one probably won't help them, but this has to be fixed, don't you think.
Aurora 10.3 game friday -vs- Lakeland
Lincoln 10.0
Maryville(tn) 9.773 game friday -vs- Huntingdon
Westminster 9.737 game tonight -vs- Grove City
Edgewood 8.696 game friday @ Dominican
Dominican 8.692 game friday -vs- Edgewood
Bethany 8.667 game tonight -vs- Wash & Jeff
Lakeland 8.261 game friday @ Aurora
Chapman 8.118 game friday -vs- Colo. College (@ Nebra Wesl)
St. Joseph 8.056 game friday -vs- Mitchell
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on February 22, 2007, 07:00:01 PM
Post by: gordonmann on February 22, 2007, 07:00:01 PM
Floating --
Pool B does not distinguish between which conferences teams are in. It never has.
It's an allocation set aside for independent teams and members of conferences without AQs. If the four best candidates are from one conference, so be it. There have been several occassions where the same conference got multiple Pool B bids in football without much notice.
Yes, the NAthC will get a Pool A bid later. But they don't get it now and there was no guarantee in November that any of their teams would make the tournament. What you're proposing -- letting the first place team in and putting the rest in Pool C -- basically eliminates the distinction between a conference with an AQ and a conference without one.
Pool B does not distinguish between which conferences teams are in. It never has.
It's an allocation set aside for independent teams and members of conferences without AQs. If the four best candidates are from one conference, so be it. There have been several occassions where the same conference got multiple Pool B bids in football without much notice.
Yes, the NAthC will get a Pool A bid later. But they don't get it now and there was no guarantee in November that any of their teams would make the tournament. What you're proposing -- letting the first place team in and putting the rest in Pool C -- basically eliminates the distinction between a conference with an AQ and a conference without one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gccfan on February 22, 2007, 08:47:08 PM
Post by: gccfan on February 22, 2007, 08:47:08 PM
Westminster may have had their bubble burst tonight getting upset by Grove City in the PrAC semi finals, 86-67... Great job by my Wolverines!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:57:48 PM
Post by: sac on February 22, 2007, 08:57:48 PM
Not necessarily, I think they still look good even with the loss, no one behind them would overwhelm the committee, unless Bethany wins out. A number of these teams will finish their years with a loss. But I haven't calculated any QOWI's.
Quote from: "Floating On The Perimeter" on February 22, 2007, 06:07:47 PM
Aurora 10.3 game friday -vs- Lakeland
Lincoln 10.0
Maryville(tn) 9.773 game friday -vs- Huntingdon
Westminster 9.737 game tonight -vs- Grove City
Edgewood 8.696 game friday @ Dominican
Dominican 8.692 game friday -vs- Edgewood
Bethany 8.667 game tonight -vs- Wash & Jeff
Lakeland 8.261 game friday @ Aurora
Chapman 8.118 game friday -vs- Colo. College (@ Nebra Wesl)
St. Joseph 8.056 game friday -vs- Mitchell
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 22, 2007, 10:09:26 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 22, 2007, 10:09:26 PM
Lincoln plays Newbury friday night at St. Joseph (ME) in the AD3I (Association of Division 3 Independents). St. Joseph plays Mitchell in the other game with the championship game played on Saturday.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2007, 10:26:57 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2007, 10:26:57 PM
Quote from: gccfan on February 22, 2007, 08:47:08 PM
Westminster may have had their bubble burst tonight getting upset by Grove City in the PrAC semi finals, 86-67... Great job by my Wolverines!!!
gcc fan, I believe that pabegg has discovered the best news of the day for Westminster. Southern
Westminster owes the Southern
Paying too much attention to Ben Hur!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 22, 2007, 10:30:58 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 22, 2007, 10:30:58 PM
Southern Vermont. I know Calvin Coolidge seemed like 8 presidents all wrapped up into one, but Vermont and Virginia actually are different states. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gccfan on February 22, 2007, 11:17:13 PM
Post by: gccfan on February 22, 2007, 11:17:13 PM
ahh... too bad. Nothing like keeping a rival out with a key win. Any chance that W&J or GCC would be put in for winning the PrAC? I'm guessing no because neither has a great record. Does a conference tournament championship count for anything in these matters?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 22, 2007, 11:20:55 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 22, 2007, 11:20:55 PM
Quote from: gccfan on February 22, 2007, 11:17:13 PM
ahh... too bad. Nothing like keeping a rival out with a key win. Any chance that W&J or GCC would be put in for winning the PrAC? I'm guessing no because neither has a great record. Does a conference tournament championship count for anything in these matters?
The Prexy Conference championship doesn't count for anything, selection-wise, at least not this year. But I'm sure that Grove's players would still gladly accept it! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 23, 2007, 03:03:05 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 23, 2007, 03:03:05 AM
Quote from: "Floating On The Perimeter" on February 22, 2007, 06:07:47 PM
Pool B was intended for independents and teams that are in leagues that have 6 or less teams.
Pool B was intended for teams that don't have access to automatic bids, as mentioned by others. No more, no less. The NEAC had more than six teams and no AQ for a couple years, as did the AMCC. This isn't a new phenomenon.
Now that Chapman has figured out how to schedule enough to get into the tournament, it needs to focus on winning more games.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 23, 2007, 03:14:03 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 23, 2007, 03:14:03 AM
Through Thursday:
Rank QOWI Rk in-reg Team Reg. W-L Overall
1 11.625 1 Amherst 0.958 (23-1) 24-1
2 11.565 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.958 (23-1) 24-2
3 10.950 2 Trinity (Conn.) 0.850 (17-3) 21-3
4 10.810 3 Worcester Polytech 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
5 10.696 1 Chicago 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
6 10.692 2 St. Thomas 0.885 (23-3) 23-3
7 10.667 1 Mississippi College 0.952 (20-1) 22-2
8 10.625 4 Salem State 0.920 (23-2) 23-2
9 10.600 1 Lake Erie 0.950 (19-1) 23-2
10 10.520 5 Rhode Island College 0.880 (22-3) 22-3
11 10.476 2 Washington U. 0.810 (17-4) 19-4
12 10.412 3 Occidental 0.824 (14-3) 19-5
13 10.400 1 Brockport State 0.840 (21-4) 22-4
14 10.400 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.880 (22-3) 23-3
15 10.391 4 St. John's 0.870 (20-3) 20-6
16 10.292 2 St. Lawrence 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
17 10.292 1 Ramapo 0.792 (19-5) 20-7
18 10.250 3 Aurora 0.913 (21-2) 23-2
19 10.238 3 DePauw 0.900 (18-2) 21-4
20 10.217 6 Keene State 0.826 (19-4) 22-4
21 10.217 3 Rochester 0.739 (17-6) 17-7
22 10.208 4 St. John Fisher 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
23 10.200 1 Messiah 0.800 (16-4) 19-6
24 10.174 2 Johns Hopkins 0.864 (19-3) 21-4
25 10.143 3 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 17-7
26 10.125 7 Brandeis 0.750 (18-6) 18-6
27 10.083 4 Augustana 0.833 (20-4) 20-5
28 10.080 4 Catholic 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
29 10.000 4 Averett 0.800 (16-4) 18-6
30 10.000 5 Loras 0.818 (18-4) 20-6
31 9.960 5 Hood 0.800 (20-5) 21-6
32 9.960 5 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.840 (21-4) 21-4
33 9.957 2 John Carroll 0.739 (17-6) 18-8
34 9.913 6 UW-La Crosse 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
35 9.909 7 Whitworth 0.864 (19-3) 22-3
36 9.900 3 Wooster 0.900 (18-2) 23-3
37 9.870 5 New York University 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
38 9.833 8 UW-Oshkosh 0.750 (18-6) 21-6
39 9.800 6 King's 0.720 (18-7) 18-8
40 9.778 6 Centre 0.778 (14-4) 20-4
41 9.778 9 Lewis and Clark 0.778 (14-4) 19-6
42 9.773 7 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.864 (19-3) 19-6
43 9.762 6 Hamilton 0.714 (15-6) 18-6
44 9.741 2 Stevens 0.778 (21-6) 21-6
45 9.739 7 Alvernia 0.913 (21-2) 22-4
46 9.731 3 Manhattanville 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
47 9.708 8 Scranton 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
48 9.708 8 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
49 9.667 4 Hope 0.833 (15-3) 22-3
50 9.667 4 New Jersey City 0.708 (17-7) 18-8
51 9.636 8 McMurry 0.818 (18-4) 19-6
52 9.625 9 Husson 0.875 (21-3) 21-5
53 9.625 9 Guilford 0.833 (20-4) 21-4
54 9.619 5 Ohio Northern 0.667 (14-7) 19-7
55 9.565 9 DeSales 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
56 9.476 6 Wittenberg 0.810 (17-4) 22-4
57 9.450 7 Westminster (Pa.) 0.800 (16-4) 18-8
58 9.429 5 Elmhurst 0.762 (16-5) 20-5
59 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
60 9.348 7 Utica 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
61 9.318 6 Grinnell 0.727 (16-6) 17-6
62 9.300 7 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.650 (13-7) 17-8
63 9.273 10 Greensboro 0.773 (17-5) 20-6
64 9.261 10 FDU-Florham 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
65 9.250 11 Bridgewater State 0.708 (17-7) 17-7
66 9.238 5 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
67 9.235 10 Redlands 0.765 (13-4) 17-7
68 9.200 8 Capital 0.680 (17-8) 17-8
69 9.190 9 Baldwin-Wallace 0.714 (15-6) 18-8
70 9.190 12 Colby 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
71 9.190 8 Plattsburgh State 0.714 (15-6) 18-8
72 9.148 11 UW-Whitewater 0.667 (18-9) 18-9
73 9.143 6 Rowan 0.714 (15-6) 20-6
74 9.136 11 Villa Julie 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
75 9.130 10 Penn State-Behrend 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
76 9.111 13 Western New England 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
77 9.083 12 Susquehanna 0.583 (14-10) 16-10
78 9.083 11 Otterbein 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
79 9.048 8 Carthage 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
80 9.045 13 Juniata 0.682 (15-7) 16-10
81 9.043 7 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.652 (15-8) 18-9
82 9.000 14 Babson 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
83 9.000 8 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.667 (16-8) 18-9
84 9.000 11 Millsaps 0.737 (14-5) 17-8
85 9.000 12 Pomona-Pitzer 0.688 (11-5) 16-8
86 8.962 14 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
87 8.958 9 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
88 8.955 15 Ursinus 0.682 (15-7) 16-9
89 8.952 13 Puget Sound 0.714 (15-6) 18-7
90 8.952 14 Buena Vista 0.667 (14-7) 17-8
91 8.952 15 Cal Lutheran 0.619 (13-8) 17-8
92 8.950 12 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-11
93 8.917 9 Transylvania 0.667 (16-8) 17-8
94 8.905 10 Carroll 0.667 (14-7) 14-8
95 8.889 11 North Central 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
96 8.880 16 Coe 0.680 (17-8) 19-8
97 8.800 15 Elms 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
98 8.783 17 Simpson 0.609 (14-9) 18-9
99 8.769 16 Lasell 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
100 8.760 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.600 (15-10) 17-10
101 8.750 16 Mary Washington 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
102 8.750 12 Bluffton 0.667 (14-7) 18-7
103 8.727 9 Vassar 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
104 8.720 18 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
105 8.696 17 Williams 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
106 8.696 10 Oswego State 0.609 (14-9) 15-11
107 8.696 13 Edgewood 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
108 8.692 14 Dominican 0.654 (17-9) 17-9
109 8.684 17 Chestnut Hill 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
110 8.682 18 Baptist Bible 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
111 8.680 11 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
112 8.667 18 Gordon 0.667 (16-8) 19-8
113 8.667 12 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
114 8.652 12 Texas-Dallas 0.696 (16-7) 18-7
115 8.600 19 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
116 8.556 13 Calvin 0.667 (12-6) 16-9
117 8.545 14 Bethany 0.682 (15-7) 19-8
118 8.522 13 Rochester Tech 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
119 8.500 19 Haverford 0.600 (12-8) 13-11
120 8.500 15 Ohio Wesleyan 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
121 8.500 20 Mass-Dartmouth 0.583 (14-10) 14-12
122 8.478 21 Westfield State 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
123 8.462 20 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.577 (15-11) 16-11
124 8.429 14 Ithaca 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
125 8.429 15 Webster 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
126 8.423 22 Endicott 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
127 8.391 15 SUNYIT 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
128 8.364 16 Lake Forest 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
129 8.353 19 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.588 (10-7) 15-10
130 8.333 23 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
131 8.320 11 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
132 8.304 24 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
133 8.304 12 York (N.Y.) 0.696 (16-7) 17-10
134 8.300 17 MacMurray 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
135 8.286 13 Trinity (Texas) 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
136 8.280 25 Rivier 0.720 (18-7) 19-8
137 8.261 18 Lakeland 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
138 8.238 19 Ripon 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
139 8.227 14 LeTourneau 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
140 8.208 20 Franklin 0.625 (15-9) 16-9
141 8.190 21 Defiance 0.619 (13-8) 16-8
142 8.190 22 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
143 8.182 21 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
144 8.176 16 Tri-State 0.647 (11-6) 16-8
145 8.160 26 MIT 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
146 8.143 22 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
147 8.143 23 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
148 8.118 20 Chapman 0.706 (12-5) 19-5
149 8.111 15 Hendrix 0.556 (10-8) 15-9
150 8.095 21 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
151 8.056 27 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.611 (11-7) 17-7
152 8.048 24 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
153 8.043 23 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
154 8.042 24 Widener 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
155 8.000 28 Springfield 0.462 (12-14) 12-14
156 8.000 22 Gustavus Adolphus 0.538 (14-12) 14-13
157 7.962 29 Wentworth Tech 0.615 (16-10) 16-11
158 7.960 16 Hardin-Simmons 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
159 7.958 17 Heidelberg 0.500 (12-12) 13-13
160 7.958 30 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
161 7.955 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
162 7.952 17 Roanoke 0.619 (13-8) 16-10
163 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
164 7.917 25 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
165 7.909 26 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
166 7.900 25 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
167 7.895 18 Albion 0.526 (10-9) 10-15
168 7.889 27 Fontbonne 0.556 (10-8) 14-11
169 7.889 23 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
170 7.880 19 Wilmington 0.480 (12-13) 13-13
171 7.875 18 LaGrange 0.625 (10-6) 17-8
172 7.875 19 Oglethorpe 0.542 (13-11) 14-11
173 7.870 26 Gettysburg 0.565 (13-10) 13-12
174 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
175 7.857 17 Union 0.524 (11-10) 11-13
176 7.826 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
177 7.808 32 Curry 0.577 (15-11) 15-12
178 7.783 20 Hampden-Sydney 0.565 (13-10) 16-10
179 7.773 27 Albright 0.364 (8-14) 10-14
180 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
181 7.739 33 Emmanuel 0.478 (11-12) 12-15
182 7.739 28 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
183 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
184 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
185 7.706 20 Adrian 0.588 (10-7) 10-14
186 7.692 28 Pitt-Bradford 0.538 (14-12) 14-12
187 7.667 21 Grove City 0.524 (11-10) 15-12
188 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
189 7.667 29 Eureka 0.571 (12-9) 15-9
190 7.654 25 St. Olaf 0.500 (13-13) 13-14
191 7.650 14 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
192 7.609 29 Eastern 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
193 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
194 7.591 15 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
195 7.583 30 Moravian 0.458 (11-13) 11-14
196 7.579 21 Methodist 0.421 (8-11) 11-14
197 7.571 22 Southwestern 0.476 (10-11) 11-14
198 7.565 31 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
199 7.565 34 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
200 7.545 16 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
Rank QOWI Rk in-reg Team Reg. W-L Overall
1 11.625 1 Amherst 0.958 (23-1) 24-1
2 11.565 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.958 (23-1) 24-2
3 10.950 2 Trinity (Conn.) 0.850 (17-3) 21-3
4 10.810 3 Worcester Polytech 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
5 10.696 1 Chicago 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
6 10.692 2 St. Thomas 0.885 (23-3) 23-3
7 10.667 1 Mississippi College 0.952 (20-1) 22-2
8 10.625 4 Salem State 0.920 (23-2) 23-2
9 10.600 1 Lake Erie 0.950 (19-1) 23-2
10 10.520 5 Rhode Island College 0.880 (22-3) 22-3
11 10.476 2 Washington U. 0.810 (17-4) 19-4
12 10.412 3 Occidental 0.824 (14-3) 19-5
13 10.400 1 Brockport State 0.840 (21-4) 22-4
14 10.400 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.880 (22-3) 23-3
15 10.391 4 St. John's 0.870 (20-3) 20-6
16 10.292 2 St. Lawrence 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
17 10.292 1 Ramapo 0.792 (19-5) 20-7
18 10.250 3 Aurora 0.913 (21-2) 23-2
19 10.238 3 DePauw 0.900 (18-2) 21-4
20 10.217 6 Keene State 0.826 (19-4) 22-4
21 10.217 3 Rochester 0.739 (17-6) 17-7
22 10.208 4 St. John Fisher 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
23 10.200 1 Messiah 0.800 (16-4) 19-6
24 10.174 2 Johns Hopkins 0.864 (19-3) 21-4
25 10.143 3 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 17-7
26 10.125 7 Brandeis 0.750 (18-6) 18-6
27 10.083 4 Augustana 0.833 (20-4) 20-5
28 10.080 4 Catholic 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
29 10.000 4 Averett 0.800 (16-4) 18-6
30 10.000 5 Loras 0.818 (18-4) 20-6
31 9.960 5 Hood 0.800 (20-5) 21-6
32 9.960 5 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.840 (21-4) 21-4
33 9.957 2 John Carroll 0.739 (17-6) 18-8
34 9.913 6 UW-La Crosse 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
35 9.909 7 Whitworth 0.864 (19-3) 22-3
36 9.900 3 Wooster 0.900 (18-2) 23-3
37 9.870 5 New York University 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
38 9.833 8 UW-Oshkosh 0.750 (18-6) 21-6
39 9.800 6 King's 0.720 (18-7) 18-8
40 9.778 6 Centre 0.778 (14-4) 20-4
41 9.778 9 Lewis and Clark 0.778 (14-4) 19-6
42 9.773 7 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.864 (19-3) 19-6
43 9.762 6 Hamilton 0.714 (15-6) 18-6
44 9.741 2 Stevens 0.778 (21-6) 21-6
45 9.739 7 Alvernia 0.913 (21-2) 22-4
46 9.731 3 Manhattanville 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
47 9.708 8 Scranton 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
48 9.708 8 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
49 9.667 4 Hope 0.833 (15-3) 22-3
50 9.667 4 New Jersey City 0.708 (17-7) 18-8
51 9.636 8 McMurry 0.818 (18-4) 19-6
52 9.625 9 Husson 0.875 (21-3) 21-5
53 9.625 9 Guilford 0.833 (20-4) 21-4
54 9.619 5 Ohio Northern 0.667 (14-7) 19-7
55 9.565 9 DeSales 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
56 9.476 6 Wittenberg 0.810 (17-4) 22-4
57 9.450 7 Westminster (Pa.) 0.800 (16-4) 18-8
58 9.429 5 Elmhurst 0.762 (16-5) 20-5
59 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
60 9.348 7 Utica 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
61 9.318 6 Grinnell 0.727 (16-6) 17-6
62 9.300 7 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.650 (13-7) 17-8
63 9.273 10 Greensboro 0.773 (17-5) 20-6
64 9.261 10 FDU-Florham 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
65 9.250 11 Bridgewater State 0.708 (17-7) 17-7
66 9.238 5 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
67 9.235 10 Redlands 0.765 (13-4) 17-7
68 9.200 8 Capital 0.680 (17-8) 17-8
69 9.190 9 Baldwin-Wallace 0.714 (15-6) 18-8
70 9.190 12 Colby 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
71 9.190 8 Plattsburgh State 0.714 (15-6) 18-8
72 9.148 11 UW-Whitewater 0.667 (18-9) 18-9
73 9.143 6 Rowan 0.714 (15-6) 20-6
74 9.136 11 Villa Julie 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
75 9.130 10 Penn State-Behrend 0.739 (17-6) 18-6
76 9.111 13 Western New England 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
77 9.083 12 Susquehanna 0.583 (14-10) 16-10
78 9.083 11 Otterbein 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
79 9.048 8 Carthage 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
80 9.045 13 Juniata 0.682 (15-7) 16-10
81 9.043 7 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.652 (15-8) 18-9
82 9.000 14 Babson 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
83 9.000 8 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.667 (16-8) 18-9
84 9.000 11 Millsaps 0.737 (14-5) 17-8
85 9.000 12 Pomona-Pitzer 0.688 (11-5) 16-8
86 8.962 14 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
87 8.958 9 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
88 8.955 15 Ursinus 0.682 (15-7) 16-9
89 8.952 13 Puget Sound 0.714 (15-6) 18-7
90 8.952 14 Buena Vista 0.667 (14-7) 17-8
91 8.952 15 Cal Lutheran 0.619 (13-8) 17-8
92 8.950 12 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-11
93 8.917 9 Transylvania 0.667 (16-8) 17-8
94 8.905 10 Carroll 0.667 (14-7) 14-8
95 8.889 11 North Central 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
96 8.880 16 Coe 0.680 (17-8) 19-8
97 8.800 15 Elms 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
98 8.783 17 Simpson 0.609 (14-9) 18-9
99 8.769 16 Lasell 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
100 8.760 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.600 (15-10) 17-10
101 8.750 16 Mary Washington 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
102 8.750 12 Bluffton 0.667 (14-7) 18-7
103 8.727 9 Vassar 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
104 8.720 18 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
105 8.696 17 Williams 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
106 8.696 10 Oswego State 0.609 (14-9) 15-11
107 8.696 13 Edgewood 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
108 8.692 14 Dominican 0.654 (17-9) 17-9
109 8.684 17 Chestnut Hill 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
110 8.682 18 Baptist Bible 0.727 (16-6) 18-7
111 8.680 11 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
112 8.667 18 Gordon 0.667 (16-8) 19-8
113 8.667 12 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
114 8.652 12 Texas-Dallas 0.696 (16-7) 18-7
115 8.600 19 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
116 8.556 13 Calvin 0.667 (12-6) 16-9
117 8.545 14 Bethany 0.682 (15-7) 19-8
118 8.522 13 Rochester Tech 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
119 8.500 19 Haverford 0.600 (12-8) 13-11
120 8.500 15 Ohio Wesleyan 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
121 8.500 20 Mass-Dartmouth 0.583 (14-10) 14-12
122 8.478 21 Westfield State 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
123 8.462 20 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.577 (15-11) 16-11
124 8.429 14 Ithaca 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
125 8.429 15 Webster 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
126 8.423 22 Endicott 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
127 8.391 15 SUNYIT 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
128 8.364 16 Lake Forest 0.591 (13-9) 14-9
129 8.353 19 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.588 (10-7) 15-10
130 8.333 23 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
131 8.320 11 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
132 8.304 24 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
133 8.304 12 York (N.Y.) 0.696 (16-7) 17-10
134 8.300 17 MacMurray 0.650 (13-7) 16-8
135 8.286 13 Trinity (Texas) 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
136 8.280 25 Rivier 0.720 (18-7) 19-8
137 8.261 18 Lakeland 0.609 (14-9) 16-10
138 8.238 19 Ripon 0.571 (12-9) 13-9
139 8.227 14 LeTourneau 0.636 (14-8) 15-9
140 8.208 20 Franklin 0.625 (15-9) 16-9
141 8.190 21 Defiance 0.619 (13-8) 16-8
142 8.190 22 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
143 8.182 21 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
144 8.176 16 Tri-State 0.647 (11-6) 16-8
145 8.160 26 MIT 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
146 8.143 22 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
147 8.143 23 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
148 8.118 20 Chapman 0.706 (12-5) 19-5
149 8.111 15 Hendrix 0.556 (10-8) 15-9
150 8.095 21 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
151 8.056 27 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.611 (11-7) 17-7
152 8.048 24 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
153 8.043 23 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
154 8.042 24 Widener 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
155 8.000 28 Springfield 0.462 (12-14) 12-14
156 8.000 22 Gustavus Adolphus 0.538 (14-12) 14-13
157 7.962 29 Wentworth Tech 0.615 (16-10) 16-11
158 7.960 16 Hardin-Simmons 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
159 7.958 17 Heidelberg 0.500 (12-12) 13-13
160 7.958 30 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
161 7.955 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
162 7.952 17 Roanoke 0.619 (13-8) 16-10
163 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
164 7.917 25 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
165 7.909 26 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
166 7.900 25 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
167 7.895 18 Albion 0.526 (10-9) 10-15
168 7.889 27 Fontbonne 0.556 (10-8) 14-11
169 7.889 23 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
170 7.880 19 Wilmington 0.480 (12-13) 13-13
171 7.875 18 LaGrange 0.625 (10-6) 17-8
172 7.875 19 Oglethorpe 0.542 (13-11) 14-11
173 7.870 26 Gettysburg 0.565 (13-10) 13-12
174 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
175 7.857 17 Union 0.524 (11-10) 11-13
176 7.826 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
177 7.808 32 Curry 0.577 (15-11) 15-12
178 7.783 20 Hampden-Sydney 0.565 (13-10) 16-10
179 7.773 27 Albright 0.364 (8-14) 10-14
180 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
181 7.739 33 Emmanuel 0.478 (11-12) 12-15
182 7.739 28 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
183 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
184 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
185 7.706 20 Adrian 0.588 (10-7) 10-14
186 7.692 28 Pitt-Bradford 0.538 (14-12) 14-12
187 7.667 21 Grove City 0.524 (11-10) 15-12
188 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
189 7.667 29 Eureka 0.571 (12-9) 15-9
190 7.654 25 St. Olaf 0.500 (13-13) 13-14
191 7.650 14 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
192 7.609 29 Eastern 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
193 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
194 7.591 15 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
195 7.583 30 Moravian 0.458 (11-13) 11-14
196 7.579 21 Methodist 0.421 (8-11) 11-14
197 7.571 22 Southwestern 0.476 (10-11) 11-14
198 7.565 31 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
199 7.565 34 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
200 7.545 16 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 23, 2007, 09:18:02 AM
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 23, 2007, 09:18:02 AM
Now that Chapman has figured out how to schedule enough to get into the tournament, it needs to focus on winning more games.
I never said chapman deserved to get in.....the numbers are what they are. They have played well enough to beat Division II Hawaii Pacific and close loses to Puget Sound and Oxy, but that won't get them in. Pat try removing that chip off your shoulder, wasn't claiming to have all the answers, just seem like a flaw in the system. A little harsh when your attacking them for 19 wins and possibly two more for not winning enough games. Everyone of your comments about chapman is negative. What's up??
I never said chapman deserved to get in.....the numbers are what they are. They have played well enough to beat Division II Hawaii Pacific and close loses to Puget Sound and Oxy, but that won't get them in. Pat try removing that chip off your shoulder, wasn't claiming to have all the answers, just seem like a flaw in the system. A little harsh when your attacking them for 19 wins and possibly two more for not winning enough games. Everyone of your comments about chapman is negative. What's up??
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 10:14:34 AM
Post by: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 10:14:34 AM
Hey Pat,
What are the chances that Dominican receive a bid to the tournament, lets say they win out and beat Aurora for the NAC championship. Does that give them any credit?
What are the chances that Dominican receive a bid to the tournament, lets say they win out and beat Aurora for the NAC championship. Does that give them any credit?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gccfan on February 23, 2007, 10:24:31 AM
Post by: gccfan on February 23, 2007, 10:24:31 AM
The Prexy Conference championship doesn't count for anything, selection-wise, at least not this year. But I'm sure that Grove's players would still gladly accept it! :)
[/quote]
I can vouch for that one, I was actually on Coach Lamie's 98-99 squad that won the conference and it was a great feeling.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2007, 10:30:09 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2007, 10:30:09 AM
Quote from: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 10:14:34 AM
Hey Pat,
What are the chances that Dominican receive a bid to the tournament, lets say they win out and beat Aurora for the NAC championship. Does that give them any credit?
No, not this year. If the NIIC members had "joined" the Lake Michigan Conference which had kept its Pool A bids, then this tourney would likely be for the Bid.
The Presidents of the institutions of the respective conferences elected to create a brand new conference. That is the reason for the delay in the transition to Pool A.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 23, 2007, 11:22:17 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 23, 2007, 11:22:17 AM
Looks like Pool B is done. I can't see any way that the big 4 don't get in.
So congrats to Aurora, Maryville TN, Lincoln, and Westminster PA.
Aurora could be playing for seeding. If they win out, they could pass WashU (or Chicago) and Augustana to reach the #2 spot in the MW, which would likey see them as hosts.
So congrats to Aurora, Maryville TN, Lincoln, and Westminster PA.
Aurora could be playing for seeding. If they win out, they could pass WashU (or Chicago) and Augustana to reach the #2 spot in the MW, which would likey see them as hosts.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 11:22:57 AM
Post by: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 11:22:57 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2007, 10:30:09 AMQuote from: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 10:14:34 AM
Hey Pat,
What are the chances that Dominican receive a bid to the tournament, lets say they win out and beat Aurora for the NAC championship. Does that give them any credit?
No, not this year. If the NIIC members had "joined" the Lake Michigan Conference which had kept its Pool A bids, then this tourney would likely be for the Bid.
The Presidents of the institutions of the respective conferences elected to create a brand new conference. That is the reason for the delay in the transition to Pool A.
I understand that they don't have an automatic bid and I understand why they don't have that bid. What I am asking is what are the chances that they make it to the nationals on pool B or C if they win out and beat Aurora for the NAC Championship.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 23, 2007, 11:29:47 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 23, 2007, 11:29:47 AM
I think the previous posts are correct. I don't see Pool B changing off the four it's been ranked at.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2007, 02:37:28 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2007, 02:37:28 PM
Quote from: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 11:22:57 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2007, 10:30:09 AMQuote from: NICNAC on February 23, 2007, 10:14:34 AM
Hey Pat,
What are the chances that Dominican receive a bid to the tournament, lets say they win out and beat Aurora for the NAC championship. Does that give them any credit?
No, not this year. If the NIIC members had "joined" the Lake Michigan Conference which had kept its Pool A bids, then this tourney would likely be for the Bid.
The Presidents of the institutions of the respective conferences elected to create a brand new conference. That is the reason for the delay in the transition to Pool A.
I understand that they don't have an automatic bid and I understand why they don't have that bid. What I am asking is what are the chances that they make it to the nationals on pool B or C if they win out and beat Aurora for the NAC Championship.
They cannot make up necessary "distance" in won-loss percentage, QOWI, wins against regionally ranked, etc., with the single victory over Aurora in the NAthCon finals to fit the criteria in ether Pool B or C.
But you can hoist the trophy! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 23, 2007, 09:46:32 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 23, 2007, 09:46:32 PM
St. Joseph (ME) website states that Lincoln plays St. Joseph tomorrow for the AD3I northeast championship. The 7:00PM St. Joseph score was posted, but not the 5:00PM Lincoln score.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 23, 2007, 09:53:40 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 23, 2007, 09:53:40 PM
The Lincoln website has Lincoln beating Newbury 92-74 in todays game at St. Joseph (ME).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 23, 2007, 10:08:01 PM
Post by: WLCALUM83 on February 23, 2007, 10:08:01 PM
Aurora and Edgewood both win to get to the NAthCon tournament final.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 03:36:16 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 03:36:16 AM
Overall QOWI In reg. Team Reg. rec. Overall
1 11.625 1 Amherst 0.958 (23-1) 24-1
2 11.583 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.958 (23-1) 24-2
3 10.950 2 Trinity (Conn.) 0.850 (17-3) 21-3
4 10.810 3 Worcester Polytech 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
5 10.696 1 Chicago 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
6 10.692 2 St. Thomas 0.885 (23-3) 23-3
7 10.667 1 Lake Erie 0.952 (20-1) 24-2
8 10.600 4 Salem State 0.920 (23-2) 23-2
9 10.577 5 Rhode Island College 0.885 (23-3) 23-3
10 10.480 1 Ramapo 0.800 (20-5) 21-7
11 10.476 2 Washington U. 0.810 (17-4) 19-4
12 10.462 1 Brockport State 0.846 (22-4) 23-4
13 10.455 1 Mississippi College 0.955 (21-1) 23-2
14 10.412 3 Occidental 0.824 (14-3) 19-5
15 10.400 2 St. Lawrence 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
16 10.400 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.880 (22-3) 23-3
17 10.391 4 St. John's 0.870 (20-3) 20-6
18 10.320 3 Aurora 0.920 (23-2) 24-2
19 10.280 3 St. John Fisher 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
20 10.250 6 Keene State 0.833 (20-4) 23-4
21 10.217 4 Rochester 0.739 (17-6) 17-7
22 10.200 1 Messiah 0.800 (16-4) 19-6
23 10.182 3 DePauw 0.864 (19-3) 22-4
24 10.174 2 Johns Hopkins 0.864 (19-3) 21-4
25 10.167 2 John Carroll 0.750 (18-6) 19-8
26 10.160 4 Augustana 0.840 (21-4) 21-5
27 10.143 3 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 18-7
28 10.125 7 Brandeis 0.750 (18-6) 18-6
29 10.105 3 Hope 0.842 (16-3) 23-3
30 10.080 4 Catholic 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
31 10.000 4 Wooster 0.905 (19-2) 24-3
32 10.000 5 Loras 0.818 (18-4) 20-6
33 9.960 5 Hood 0.800 (20-5) 21-6
34 9.947 4 Centre 0.789 (15-4) 21-4
35 9.923 5 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.846 (22-4) 22-4
36 9.917 6 UW-Oshkosh 0.750 (18-6) 21-6
37 9.913 7 UW-La Crosse 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
38 9.909 8 Whitworth 0.864 (19-3) 22-3
39 9.870 5 New York University 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
40 9.864 6 Hamilton 0.727 (16-6) 19-6
41 9.857 6 Averett 0.810 (17-4) 19-6
42 9.826 7 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.870 (20-3) 20-6
43 9.800 6 King's 0.720 (18-7) 18-8
44 9.778 9 Lewis and Clark 0.778 (14-4) 19-6
45 9.760 8 Husson 0.880 (22-3) 22-5
46 9.750 7 Alvernia 0.917 (22-2) 23-4
47 9.741 2 Stevens 0.778 (21-6) 21-6
48 9.731 3 Manhattanville 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
49 9.708 9 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
50 9.708 8 Scranton 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
51 9.696 8 McMurry 0.826 (19-4) 20-6
52 9.625 9 Guilford 0.833 (20-4) 21-4
53 9.619 5 Ohio Northern 0.667 (14-7) 19-7
54 9.591 5 Elmhurst 0.773 (17-5) 21-5
55 9.565 9 DeSales 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
56 9.520 4 New Jersey City 0.680 (17-8) 18-9
57 9.500 7 Utica 0.750 (18-6) 19-6
58 9.450 6 Westminster (Pa.) 0.800 (16-4) 18-8
59 9.364 8 Plattsburgh State 0.727 (16-6) 19-8
60 9.364 7 Wittenberg 0.773 (17-5) 22-5
61 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
62 9.308 8 Capital 0.692 (18-8) 18-8
63 9.292 9 Penn State-Behrend 0.750 (18-6) 19-6
64 9.261 10 Villa Julie 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
65 9.261 11 FDU-Florham 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
66 9.261 6 Grinnell 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
67 9.238 5 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
68 9.235 10 Redlands 0.765 (13-4) 17-7
69 9.200 10 Millsaps 0.750 (15-5) 18-8
70 9.190 11 Colby 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
71 9.190 7 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.619 (13-8) 17-9
72 9.148 11 UW-Whitewater 0.667 (18-9) 18-9
73 9.143 6 Rowan 0.714 (15-6) 20-6
74 9.143 8 Carthage 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
75 9.111 12 Western New England 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
76 9.091 10 Baldwin-Wallace 0.682 (15-7) 18-9
77 9.091 9 Carroll 0.682 (15-7) 15-8
78 9.083 12 Susquehanna 0.583 (14-10) 16-10
79 9.080 13 Bridgewater State 0.680 (17-8) 17-8
80 9.080 10 Transylvania 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
81 9.045 13 Juniata 0.682 (15-7) 16-10
82 9.043 7 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.652 (15-8) 18-9
83 9.000 14 Babson 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
84 9.000 8 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.667 (16-8) 18-9
85 9.000 14 Chestnut Hill 0.750 (15-5) 19-8
86 9.000 11 Otterbein 0.600 (15-10) 16-11
87 9.000 12 Pomona-Pitzer 0.688 (11-5) 16-8
88 8.962 15 Elms 0.692 (18-8) 19-8
89 8.962 15 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
90 8.958 9 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
91 8.955 16 Ursinus 0.682 (15-7) 16-9
92 8.952 13 Puget Sound 0.714 (15-6) 18-7
93 8.952 14 Buena Vista 0.667 (14-7) 17-8
94 8.952 15 Cal Lutheran 0.619 (13-8) 17-8
95 8.950 12 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-11
96 8.880 16 Coe 0.680 (17-8) 19-8
97 8.857 11 Bluffton 0.619 (13-8) 18-8
98 8.833 12 Edgewood 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
99 8.826 11 Greensboro 0.739 (17-6) 20-7
100 8.789 13 Calvin 0.684 (13-6) 17-9
101 8.789 13 North Central 0.579 (11-8) 16-10
102 8.783 14 Ohio Wesleyan 0.652 (15-8) 18-9
103 8.783 17 Simpson 0.609 (14-9) 18-9
104 8.760 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.600 (15-10) 17-10
105 8.750 16 Westfield State 0.625 (15-9) 17-10
106 8.750 17 Mary Washington 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
107 8.739 14 Lake Forest 0.609 (14-9) 15-9
108 8.704 17 Lasell 0.593 (16-11) 16-11
109 8.696 18 Williams 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
110 8.680 9 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
111 8.667 19 Gordon 0.667 (16-8) 19-8
112 8.667 10 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
113 8.652 11 Vassar 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
114 8.640 18 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
115 8.630 15 Dominican 0.630 (17-10) 17-10
116 8.625 12 Oswego State 0.583 (14-10) 15-12
117 8.609 18 Baptist Bible 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
118 8.600 20 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
119 8.591 16 Defiance 0.636 (14-8) 17-8
120 8.583 12 Texas-Dallas 0.667 (16-8) 18-8
121 8.545 15 Bethany 0.682 (15-7) 19-8
122 8.500 11 York (N.Y.) 0.708 (17-7) 18-10
123 8.500 19 Haverford 0.600 (12-8) 13-11
124 8.500 13 Trinity (Texas) 0.591 (13-9) 15-11
125 8.462 20 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.577 (15-11) 16-11
126 8.458 13 Rochester Tech 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
127 8.440 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.560 (14-11) 14-13
128 8.423 22 Endicott 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
129 8.381 17 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
130 8.364 14 Ithaca 0.545 (12-10) 14-12
131 8.364 18 Ripon 0.545 (12-10) 13-10
132 8.353 19 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.588 (10-7) 15-10
133 8.333 23 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
134 8.333 15 SUNYIT 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
135 8.333 16 Tri-State 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
136 8.333 19 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
137 8.320 12 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
138 8.318 20 Webster 0.591 (13-9) 16-10
139 8.304 24 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
140 8.280 25 Rivier 0.720 (18-7) 19-8
141 8.238 21 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
142 8.208 22 Lakeland 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
143 8.200 23 Franklin 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
144 8.182 21 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
145 8.167 20 Chapman 0.722 (13-5) 20-5
146 8.160 26 MIT 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
147 8.158 24 Fontbonne 0.579 (11-8) 15-11
148 8.143 22 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
149 8.143 25 MacMurray 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
150 8.105 17 Albion 0.526 (10-9) 10-15
151 8.095 21 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
152 8.091 26 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
153 8.077 14 Hardin-Simmons 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
154 8.056 27 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.611 (11-7) 18-7
155 8.053 15 Hendrix 0.526 (10-9) 15-10
156 8.043 23 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
157 8.042 24 Widener 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
158 8.000 28 Springfield 0.462 (12-14) 12-14
159 8.000 16 LaGrange 0.647 (11-6) 18-8
160 8.000 22 Gustavus Adolphus 0.538 (14-12) 14-13
161 7.962 29 Wentworth Tech 0.615 (16-10) 16-11
162 7.958 30 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
163 7.958 18 Heidelberg 0.500 (12-12) 13-13
164 7.955 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
165 7.952 17 Roanoke 0.619 (13-8) 16-10
166 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
167 7.917 27 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
168 7.913 18 LeTourneau 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
169 7.909 28 Eureka 0.591 (13-9) 16-9
170 7.900 25 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
171 7.889 19 Adrian 0.556 (10-8) 10-15
172 7.889 23 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
173 7.880 20 Wilmington 0.480 (12-13) 13-13
174 7.870 26 Gettysburg 0.565 (13-10) 13-12
175 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
176 7.826 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
177 7.818 17 Union 0.500 (11-11) 11-14
178 7.808 32 Curry 0.577 (15-11) 15-12
179 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
180 7.773 27 Albright 0.364 (8-14) 10-14
181 7.760 19 Oglethorpe 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
182 7.739 33 Emmanuel 0.478 (11-12) 12-15
183 7.739 29 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
184 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
185 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
186 7.696 20 Hampden-Sydney 0.565 (13-10) 16-10
187 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
188 7.667 28 Pitt-Bradford 0.519 (14-13) 14-13
189 7.667 21 Grove City 0.524 (11-10) 15-12
190 7.650 14 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
191 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
192 7.609 29 Eastern 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
193 7.591 15 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
194 7.583 30 Moravian 0.458 (11-13) 11-14
195 7.577 25 St. Olaf 0.500 (13-13) 13-14
196 7.565 34 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
197 7.565 31 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
198 7.545 16 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
199 7.545 21 Southwestern 0.455 (10-12) 11-15
200 7.545 22 Emory 0.318 (7-15) 8-16
1 11.625 1 Amherst 0.958 (23-1) 24-1
2 11.583 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.958 (23-1) 24-2
3 10.950 2 Trinity (Conn.) 0.850 (17-3) 21-3
4 10.810 3 Worcester Polytech 0.905 (19-2) 21-2
5 10.696 1 Chicago 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
6 10.692 2 St. Thomas 0.885 (23-3) 23-3
7 10.667 1 Lake Erie 0.952 (20-1) 24-2
8 10.600 4 Salem State 0.920 (23-2) 23-2
9 10.577 5 Rhode Island College 0.885 (23-3) 23-3
10 10.480 1 Ramapo 0.800 (20-5) 21-7
11 10.476 2 Washington U. 0.810 (17-4) 19-4
12 10.462 1 Brockport State 0.846 (22-4) 23-4
13 10.455 1 Mississippi College 0.955 (21-1) 23-2
14 10.412 3 Occidental 0.824 (14-3) 19-5
15 10.400 2 St. Lawrence 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
16 10.400 2 Virginia Wesleyan 0.880 (22-3) 23-3
17 10.391 4 St. John's 0.870 (20-3) 20-6
18 10.320 3 Aurora 0.920 (23-2) 24-2
19 10.280 3 St. John Fisher 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
20 10.250 6 Keene State 0.833 (20-4) 23-4
21 10.217 4 Rochester 0.739 (17-6) 17-7
22 10.200 1 Messiah 0.800 (16-4) 19-6
23 10.182 3 DePauw 0.864 (19-3) 22-4
24 10.174 2 Johns Hopkins 0.864 (19-3) 21-4
25 10.167 2 John Carroll 0.750 (18-6) 19-8
26 10.160 4 Augustana 0.840 (21-4) 21-5
27 10.143 3 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 18-7
28 10.125 7 Brandeis 0.750 (18-6) 18-6
29 10.105 3 Hope 0.842 (16-3) 23-3
30 10.080 4 Catholic 0.800 (20-5) 21-5
31 10.000 4 Wooster 0.905 (19-2) 24-3
32 10.000 5 Loras 0.818 (18-4) 20-6
33 9.960 5 Hood 0.800 (20-5) 21-6
34 9.947 4 Centre 0.789 (15-4) 21-4
35 9.923 5 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.846 (22-4) 22-4
36 9.917 6 UW-Oshkosh 0.750 (18-6) 21-6
37 9.913 7 UW-La Crosse 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
38 9.909 8 Whitworth 0.864 (19-3) 22-3
39 9.870 5 New York University 0.783 (18-5) 19-5
40 9.864 6 Hamilton 0.727 (16-6) 19-6
41 9.857 6 Averett 0.810 (17-4) 19-6
42 9.826 7 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.870 (20-3) 20-6
43 9.800 6 King's 0.720 (18-7) 18-8
44 9.778 9 Lewis and Clark 0.778 (14-4) 19-6
45 9.760 8 Husson 0.880 (22-3) 22-5
46 9.750 7 Alvernia 0.917 (22-2) 23-4
47 9.741 2 Stevens 0.778 (21-6) 21-6
48 9.731 3 Manhattanville 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
49 9.708 9 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
50 9.708 8 Scranton 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
51 9.696 8 McMurry 0.826 (19-4) 20-6
52 9.625 9 Guilford 0.833 (20-4) 21-4
53 9.619 5 Ohio Northern 0.667 (14-7) 19-7
54 9.591 5 Elmhurst 0.773 (17-5) 21-5
55 9.565 9 DeSales 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
56 9.520 4 New Jersey City 0.680 (17-8) 18-9
57 9.500 7 Utica 0.750 (18-6) 19-6
58 9.450 6 Westminster (Pa.) 0.800 (16-4) 18-8
59 9.364 8 Plattsburgh State 0.727 (16-6) 19-8
60 9.364 7 Wittenberg 0.773 (17-5) 22-5
61 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
62 9.308 8 Capital 0.692 (18-8) 18-8
63 9.292 9 Penn State-Behrend 0.750 (18-6) 19-6
64 9.261 10 Villa Julie 0.739 (17-6) 19-7
65 9.261 11 FDU-Florham 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
66 9.261 6 Grinnell 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
67 9.238 5 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
68 9.235 10 Redlands 0.765 (13-4) 17-7
69 9.200 10 Millsaps 0.750 (15-5) 18-8
70 9.190 11 Colby 0.667 (14-7) 15-10
71 9.190 7 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.619 (13-8) 17-9
72 9.148 11 UW-Whitewater 0.667 (18-9) 18-9
73 9.143 6 Rowan 0.714 (15-6) 20-6
74 9.143 8 Carthage 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
75 9.111 12 Western New England 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
76 9.091 10 Baldwin-Wallace 0.682 (15-7) 18-9
77 9.091 9 Carroll 0.682 (15-7) 15-8
78 9.083 12 Susquehanna 0.583 (14-10) 16-10
79 9.080 13 Bridgewater State 0.680 (17-8) 17-8
80 9.080 10 Transylvania 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
81 9.045 13 Juniata 0.682 (15-7) 16-10
82 9.043 7 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.652 (15-8) 18-9
83 9.000 14 Babson 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
84 9.000 8 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.667 (16-8) 18-9
85 9.000 14 Chestnut Hill 0.750 (15-5) 19-8
86 9.000 11 Otterbein 0.600 (15-10) 16-11
87 9.000 12 Pomona-Pitzer 0.688 (11-5) 16-8
88 8.962 15 Elms 0.692 (18-8) 19-8
89 8.962 15 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
90 8.958 9 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
91 8.955 16 Ursinus 0.682 (15-7) 16-9
92 8.952 13 Puget Sound 0.714 (15-6) 18-7
93 8.952 14 Buena Vista 0.667 (14-7) 17-8
94 8.952 15 Cal Lutheran 0.619 (13-8) 17-8
95 8.950 12 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-11
96 8.880 16 Coe 0.680 (17-8) 19-8
97 8.857 11 Bluffton 0.619 (13-8) 18-8
98 8.833 12 Edgewood 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
99 8.826 11 Greensboro 0.739 (17-6) 20-7
100 8.789 13 Calvin 0.684 (13-6) 17-9
101 8.789 13 North Central 0.579 (11-8) 16-10
102 8.783 14 Ohio Wesleyan 0.652 (15-8) 18-9
103 8.783 17 Simpson 0.609 (14-9) 18-9
104 8.760 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.600 (15-10) 17-10
105 8.750 16 Westfield State 0.625 (15-9) 17-10
106 8.750 17 Mary Washington 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
107 8.739 14 Lake Forest 0.609 (14-9) 15-9
108 8.704 17 Lasell 0.593 (16-11) 16-11
109 8.696 18 Williams 0.565 (13-10) 14-11
110 8.680 9 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
111 8.667 19 Gordon 0.667 (16-8) 19-8
112 8.667 10 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
113 8.652 11 Vassar 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
114 8.640 18 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
115 8.630 15 Dominican 0.630 (17-10) 17-10
116 8.625 12 Oswego State 0.583 (14-10) 15-12
117 8.609 18 Baptist Bible 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
118 8.600 20 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
119 8.591 16 Defiance 0.636 (14-8) 17-8
120 8.583 12 Texas-Dallas 0.667 (16-8) 18-8
121 8.545 15 Bethany 0.682 (15-7) 19-8
122 8.500 11 York (N.Y.) 0.708 (17-7) 18-10
123 8.500 19 Haverford 0.600 (12-8) 13-11
124 8.500 13 Trinity (Texas) 0.591 (13-9) 15-11
125 8.462 20 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.577 (15-11) 16-11
126 8.458 13 Rochester Tech 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
127 8.440 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.560 (14-11) 14-13
128 8.423 22 Endicott 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
129 8.381 17 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
130 8.364 14 Ithaca 0.545 (12-10) 14-12
131 8.364 18 Ripon 0.545 (12-10) 13-10
132 8.353 19 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.588 (10-7) 15-10
133 8.333 23 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
134 8.333 15 SUNYIT 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
135 8.333 16 Tri-State 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
136 8.333 19 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
137 8.320 12 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
138 8.318 20 Webster 0.591 (13-9) 16-10
139 8.304 24 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
140 8.280 25 Rivier 0.720 (18-7) 19-8
141 8.238 21 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
142 8.208 22 Lakeland 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
143 8.200 23 Franklin 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
144 8.182 21 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
145 8.167 20 Chapman 0.722 (13-5) 20-5
146 8.160 26 MIT 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
147 8.158 24 Fontbonne 0.579 (11-8) 15-11
148 8.143 22 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
149 8.143 25 MacMurray 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
150 8.105 17 Albion 0.526 (10-9) 10-15
151 8.095 21 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
152 8.091 26 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
153 8.077 14 Hardin-Simmons 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
154 8.056 27 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.611 (11-7) 18-7
155 8.053 15 Hendrix 0.526 (10-9) 15-10
156 8.043 23 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
157 8.042 24 Widener 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
158 8.000 28 Springfield 0.462 (12-14) 12-14
159 8.000 16 LaGrange 0.647 (11-6) 18-8
160 8.000 22 Gustavus Adolphus 0.538 (14-12) 14-13
161 7.962 29 Wentworth Tech 0.615 (16-10) 16-11
162 7.958 30 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
163 7.958 18 Heidelberg 0.500 (12-12) 13-13
164 7.955 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
165 7.952 17 Roanoke 0.619 (13-8) 16-10
166 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
167 7.917 27 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
168 7.913 18 LeTourneau 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
169 7.909 28 Eureka 0.591 (13-9) 16-9
170 7.900 25 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
171 7.889 19 Adrian 0.556 (10-8) 10-15
172 7.889 23 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
173 7.880 20 Wilmington 0.480 (12-13) 13-13
174 7.870 26 Gettysburg 0.565 (13-10) 13-12
175 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
176 7.826 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
177 7.818 17 Union 0.500 (11-11) 11-14
178 7.808 32 Curry 0.577 (15-11) 15-12
179 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
180 7.773 27 Albright 0.364 (8-14) 10-14
181 7.760 19 Oglethorpe 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
182 7.739 33 Emmanuel 0.478 (11-12) 12-15
183 7.739 29 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
184 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
185 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
186 7.696 20 Hampden-Sydney 0.565 (13-10) 16-10
187 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
188 7.667 28 Pitt-Bradford 0.519 (14-13) 14-13
189 7.667 21 Grove City 0.524 (11-10) 15-12
190 7.650 14 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
191 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
192 7.609 29 Eastern 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
193 7.591 15 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
194 7.583 30 Moravian 0.458 (11-13) 11-14
195 7.577 25 St. Olaf 0.500 (13-13) 13-14
196 7.565 34 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
197 7.565 31 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
198 7.545 16 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
199 7.545 21 Southwestern 0.455 (10-12) 11-15
200 7.545 22 Emory 0.318 (7-15) 8-16
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: beentheredunit on February 24, 2007, 10:16:47 AM
Post by: beentheredunit on February 24, 2007, 10:16:47 AM
Quote from: "Floating On The Perimeter" on February 23, 2007, 09:18:02 AM
Now that Chapman has figured out how to schedule enough to get into the tournament, it needs to focus on winning more games.
I never said chapman deserved to get in.....the numbers are what they are. They have played well enough to beat Division II Hawaii Pacific and close loses to Puget Sound and Oxy, but that won't get them in. Pat try removing that chip off your shoulder, wasn't claiming to have all the answers, just seem like a flaw in the system. A little harsh when your attacking them for 19 wins and possibly two more for not winning enough games. Everyone of your comments about chapman is negative. What's up??
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 10:18:26 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 10:18:26 AM
Quote from: "Floating On The Perimeter" on February 23, 2007, 09:18:02 AM
I never said chapman deserved to get in.....the numbers are what they are. They have played well enough to beat Division II Hawaii Pacific and close loses to Puget Sound and Oxy, but that won't get them in. Pat try removing that chip off your shoulder, wasn't claiming to have all the answers, just seem like a flaw in the system. A little harsh when your attacking them for 19 wins and possibly two more for not winning enough games. Everyone of your comments about chapman is negative. What's up??
You only think it's a flaw because it keeps Chapman out. Dude, Chapman has been complaining about the system since 2001 at least. There's a ton of complaining out of Chapman and I'm tired of it. Go get the job done on the floor for once and not on the message board.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: beentheredunit on February 24, 2007, 10:29:44 AM
Post by: beentheredunit on February 24, 2007, 10:29:44 AM
Floating's comments sound almost "Nomuraesque". The reality is that Chapman has had a nice run with a solid nucleus of players who are well coached. Due primarily to a lack of thoughtful scheduling this group of good players will have a gaudy career winning percentage and no NCAA appearances to show for it.
The record is annually inflated with Bible Schools, Cal Tech and schools that sound like insurance companies. The Massey Rating system has them with a strength of schedule below 200.
Pat gets it! If they are going to keep the schedule that weak then they need to win nearly all of the games. Floating would be well served to name Chapman's top three wins this year and list the records of those teams.
Perhaps a short walk across the hallway to the women's basketball office for some scheduling pointers would be beneficial.
Personally, I feel bad for the players that they didn't get a better chance to test themselves and earn an NCAA bid.
The record is annually inflated with Bible Schools, Cal Tech and schools that sound like insurance companies. The Massey Rating system has them with a strength of schedule below 200.
Pat gets it! If they are going to keep the schedule that weak then they need to win nearly all of the games. Floating would be well served to name Chapman's top three wins this year and list the records of those teams.
Perhaps a short walk across the hallway to the women's basketball office for some scheduling pointers would be beneficial.
Personally, I feel bad for the players that they didn't get a better chance to test themselves and earn an NCAA bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 10:31:23 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 10:31:23 AM
Yeah, I have never taken kindly to coaches coming on the board and complaining. Seems like this isn't the proper venue. But this one has been at it for years.
Wish there were actual Chapman fans to take up the cause instead.
Wish there were actual Chapman fans to take up the cause instead.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 24, 2007, 12:44:59 PM
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 24, 2007, 12:44:59 PM
Not going to get into a shouting match with either one of you. Like i said before, it was just a general comment. I never said chapman deserved a bid over anyone this year. But if you want to get defensive then i can't control your mind set. I mentioned the flaw because of what i thought was something that could be fixed for those pool c's. Chapman isn't even in competition with pool c's.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2007, 01:34:59 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2007, 01:34:59 PM
Chapman basketball, as an outsider on this issue, other members of the Chapman athletic department understand it.
I met Baseball Coach Tereschuk last week. What a class guy! He knows how to schedule towards the at-large bids.
The liberalization of the Adminsitrative Regions rule opened up all of "Chicagoland" to Chapman. I wondered if Chapman would tap into those schools for "West" region games.
Chapman went 6-4 versus the SCIAC, a fair determination of Chapman's strength, that is to say, close but not quite.
Next year, Pool B will probably stand at 4 bids. The Pres AC goes to Pool A,but the Landmark Conference teams come into play.
I think that games with LaSierra count, if they make it to Year 3, but they are not likely to help with the "QOWI" or opponents opponents record. Colorado College moves to the SCAC, so there may be a lost date or 2, as well.
I am really interested in looking at the bubble, using the Feb 21st Regional rankings, the Regional Records thru Feb 25th and the QOWI that is generated on February 25th. I want to see how close all of these teams that "shoulda been in da tournament" really were.
I met Baseball Coach Tereschuk last week. What a class guy! He knows how to schedule towards the at-large bids.
The liberalization of the Adminsitrative Regions rule opened up all of "Chicagoland" to Chapman. I wondered if Chapman would tap into those schools for "West" region games.
Chapman went 6-4 versus the SCIAC, a fair determination of Chapman's strength, that is to say, close but not quite.
Next year, Pool B will probably stand at 4 bids. The Pres AC goes to Pool A,but the Landmark Conference teams come into play.
I think that games with LaSierra count, if they make it to Year 3, but they are not likely to help with the "QOWI" or opponents opponents record. Colorado College moves to the SCAC, so there may be a lost date or 2, as well.
I am really interested in looking at the bubble, using the Feb 21st Regional rankings, the Regional Records thru Feb 25th and the QOWI that is generated on February 25th. I want to see how close all of these teams that "shoulda been in da tournament" really were.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 02:47:53 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 02:47:53 PM
Quote from: Chapman Basketball on February 24, 2007, 12:44:59 PM
Not going to get into a shouting match with either one of you. Like i said before, it was just a general comment. I never said chapman deserved a bid over anyone this year. But if you want to get defensive then i can't control your mind set. I mentioned the flaw because of what i thought was something that could be fixed for those pool c's. Chapman isn't even in competition with pool c's.
Well, no offense, but even you seemed to realize you were being disingenuous with your username and now have changed it to reflect what you really are -- a member of the Chapman program.
I'm not sure I'm the one getting defensive. I merely pointed out some facts about Chapman's schedule (positives) and results (negative).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 11:58:40 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 24, 2007, 11:58:40 PM
Through Saturday:
Overall Points In-reg rk Team Region Win% Overall
1 11.680 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.960 (24-1) 25-2
2 11.640 1 Amherst 0.960 (24-1) 25-1
3 10.864 2 Worcester Polytech 0.909 (20-2) 22-2
4 10.818 1 Lake Erie 0.955 (21-1) 25-2
5 10.815 2 St. Thomas 0.889 (24-3) 24-3
6 10.704 3 Rhode Island College 0.889 (24-3) 24-3
7 10.667 4 Trinity (Conn.) 0.810 (17-4) 21-4
8 10.654 5 Salem State 0.923 (24-2) 24-2
9 10.636 1 Washington U. 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
10 10.609 1 Mississippi College 0.957 (22-1) 24-2
11 10.577 1 St. Lawrence 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
12 10.542 2 Chicago 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
13 10.480 1 Ramapo 0.800 (20-5) 21-7
14 10.462 3 Aurora 0.923 (24-2) 25-2
15 10.423 2 St. John Fisher 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
16 10.412 3 Occidental 0.824 (14-3) 19-5
17 10.320 6 Brandeis 0.760 (19-6) 19-6
18 10.308 4 Augustana 0.846 (22-4) 22-5
19 10.296 3 Brockport State 0.815 (22-5) 23-5
20 10.292 4 Rochester 0.750 (18-6) 18-7
21 10.269 1 Catholic 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
22 10.250 4 St. John's 0.833 (20-4) 20-7
23 10.200 2 Centre 0.800 (16-4) 22-4
24 10.192 3 Virginia Wesleyan 0.846 (22-4) 23-4
25 10.143 2 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 18-8
26 10.120 7 Keene State 0.800 (20-5) 23-5
27 10.091 2 Wooster 0.909 (20-2) 25-3
28 10.087 5 Whitworth 0.870 (20-3) 23-3
29 10.087 6 Loras 0.826 (19-4) 21-6
30 10.083 3 Johns Hopkins 0.875 (21-3) 22-4
31 10.040 3 John Carroll 0.720 (18-7) 19-9
32 10.000 4 Messiah 0.800 (16-4) 19-6
33 9.958 4 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.875 (21-3) 21-6
34 9.917 7 UW-Oshkosh 0.750 (18-6) 21-6
35 9.909 5 Averett 0.818 (18-4) 20-6
36 9.900 4 Hope 0.800 (16-4) 23-4
37 9.885 5 King's 0.731 (19-7) 19-8
38 9.870 6 DePauw 0.826 (19-4) 22-5
39 9.815 2 Manhattanville 0.815 (22-5) 23-5
40 9.808 6 Hood 0.769 (20-6) 21-7
41 9.792 8 UW-La Crosse 0.708 (17-7) 19-8
42 9.750 7 Alvernia 0.917 (22-2) 23-4
43 9.741 7 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.815 (22-5) 22-5
44 9.741 3 Stevens 0.778 (21-6) 21-6
45 9.708 8 Scranton 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
46 9.708 5 New York University 0.750 (18-6) 19-6
47 9.708 8 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
48 9.696 6 Hamilton 0.696 (16-7) 19-7
49 9.654 9 Husson 0.846 (22-4) 22-6
50 9.632 9 Lewis and Clark 0.737 (14-5) 19-7
51 9.625 8 Guilford 0.833 (20-4) 21-4
52 9.619 5 Ohio Northern 0.667 (14-7) 19-7
53 9.609 7 Plattsburgh State 0.739 (17-6) 20-8
54 9.583 9 McMurry 0.792 (19-5) 20-7
55 9.520 4 New Jersey City 0.680 (17-8) 18-9
56 9.481 6 Capital 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
57 9.478 5 Elmhurst 0.739 (17-6) 21-6
58 9.458 9 Villa Julie 0.750 (18-6) 20-7
59 9.458 10 DeSales 0.708 (17-7) 19-8
60 9.450 7 Westminster (Pa.) 0.800 (16-4) 18-8
61 9.400 8 Utica 0.720 (18-7) 19-7
62 9.364 8 Wittenberg 0.773 (17-5) 22-5
63 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
64 9.261 6 Grinnell 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
65 9.261 11 FDU-Florham 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
66 9.238 5 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
67 9.235 10 Redlands 0.765 (13-4) 17-7
68 9.231 7 Transylvania 0.692 (18-8) 19-8
69 9.200 9 Penn State-Behrend 0.720 (18-7) 19-7
70 9.190 8 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.619 (13-8) 17-9
71 9.185 11 Elms 0.704 (19-8) 20-8
72 9.148 11 UW-Whitewater 0.667 (18-9) 18-9
73 9.143 9 Carthage 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
74 9.143 6 Rowan 0.714 (15-6) 20-6
75 9.100 10 Calvin 0.700 (14-6) 18-9
76 9.091 10 Carroll 0.682 (15-7) 15-8
77 9.091 11 Baldwin-Wallace 0.682 (15-7) 18-9
78 9.091 12 Colby 0.636 (14-8) 15-11
79 9.080 13 Bridgewater State 0.680 (17-8) 17-8
80 9.074 14 Western New England 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
81 9.000 12 Pomona-Pitzer 0.688 (11-5) 16-8
82 9.000 10 Millsaps 0.714 (15-6) 18-9
83 9.000 12 Otterbein 0.600 (15-10) 16-11
84 9.000 7 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.667 (16-8) 18-9
85 9.000 15 Babson 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
86 8.958 8 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.625 (15-9) 18-10
87 8.958 9 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
88 8.958 16 Williams 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
89 8.952 13 Puget Sound 0.714 (15-6) 18-7
90 8.952 14 Cal Lutheran 0.619 (13-8) 17-8
91 8.905 12 Chestnut Hill 0.714 (15-6) 19-9
92 8.885 13 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
93 8.880 15 Coe 0.680 (17-8) 19-8
94 8.864 16 Buena Vista 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
95 8.857 11 Bluffton 0.619 (13-8) 18-8
96 8.857 13 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-12
97 8.833 14 Susquehanna 0.583 (14-10) 16-10
98 8.826 11 Greensboro 0.739 (17-6) 20-7
99 8.826 15 Juniata 0.652 (15-8) 16-11
100 8.789 12 North Central 0.579 (11-8) 16-10
101 8.783 17 Simpson 0.609 (14-9) 18-9
102 8.783 16 Ursinus 0.652 (15-8) 16-10
103 8.760 13 Edgewood 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
104 8.760 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.600 (15-10) 17-10
105 8.750 17 Mary Washington 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
106 8.739 14 Lake Forest 0.609 (14-9) 15-9
107 8.708 14 Ohio Wesleyan 0.625 (15-9) 18-10
108 8.704 17 Lasell 0.593 (16-11) 16-11
109 8.696 12 Trinity (Texas) 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
110 8.680 9 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
111 8.680 18 Westfield State 0.600 (15-10) 17-11
112 8.667 10 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
113 8.667 19 Gordon 0.667 (16-8) 19-8
114 8.652 11 Vassar 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
115 8.640 18 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
116 8.630 15 Dominican 0.630 (17-10) 17-10
117 8.625 12 Oswego State 0.583 (14-10) 15-12
118 8.609 18 Baptist Bible 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
119 8.600 20 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
120 8.524 19 Haverford 0.619 (13-8) 14-11
121 8.522 16 Defiance 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
122 8.500 13 Texas-Dallas 0.667 (16-8) 18-8
123 8.500 11 York (N.Y.) 0.708 (17-7) 18-10
124 8.462 20 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.577 (15-11) 16-11
125 8.458 13 Rochester Tech 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
126 8.455 15 Bethany 0.682 (15-7) 19-8
127 8.440 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.560 (14-11) 14-13
128 8.423 22 Endicott 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
129 8.400 17 Fontbonne 0.600 (12-8) 16-11
130 8.381 18 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
131 8.364 19 Ripon 0.545 (12-10) 13-10
132 8.364 14 Ithaca 0.545 (12-10) 14-12
133 8.353 19 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.588 (10-7) 15-10
134 8.346 23 Rivier 0.731 (19-7) 20-8
135 8.333 20 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
136 8.333 14 Hardin-Simmons 0.593 (16-11) 16-11
137 8.333 16 Tri-State 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
138 8.333 15 SUNYIT 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
139 8.333 24 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
140 8.320 12 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
141 8.318 21 Webster 0.591 (13-9) 16-10
142 8.304 25 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
143 8.238 22 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
144 8.211 20 Chapman 0.737 (14-5) 21-5
145 8.208 23 Lakeland 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
146 8.200 24 Franklin 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
147 8.148 26 Wentworth Tech 0.630 (17-10) 17-11
148 8.143 25 MacMurray 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
149 8.143 21 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
150 8.115 27 MIT 0.500 (13-13) 14-13
151 8.105 17 Albion 0.526 (10-9) 10-15
152 8.095 21 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
153 8.091 26 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
154 8.091 22 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
155 8.080 23 Widener 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
156 8.053 28 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.632 (12-7) 19-7
157 8.000 22 Gustavus Adolphus 0.538 (14-12) 14-13
158 8.000 15 Roanoke 0.636 (14-8) 17-10
159 8.000 16 Hampden-Sydney 0.583 (14-10) 17-10
160 8.000 29 Springfield 0.462 (12-14) 12-14
161 7.958 18 Heidelberg 0.500 (12-12) 13-13
162 7.958 30 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
163 7.955 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
164 7.947 17 Hendrix 0.526 (10-9) 15-10
165 7.917 27 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
166 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
167 7.913 18 LeTourneau 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
168 7.900 24 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
169 7.889 23 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
170 7.889 19 Adrian 0.556 (10-8) 10-15
171 7.880 20 Wilmington 0.480 (12-13) 13-13
172 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
173 7.826 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
174 7.818 21 Grove City 0.545 (12-10) 16-12
175 7.818 17 Union 0.500 (11-11) 11-14
176 7.783 28 Eureka 0.565 (13-10) 16-10
177 7.783 25 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
178 7.778 19 LaGrange 0.611 (11-7) 18-9
179 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
180 7.760 20 Oglethorpe 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
181 7.739 29 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
182 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
183 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
184 7.708 32 Emmanuel 0.458 (11-13) 12-16
185 7.667 26 Gettysburg 0.542 (13-11) 13-13
186 7.667 27 Pitt-Bradford 0.519 (14-13) 14-13
187 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
188 7.667 33 Curry 0.556 (15-12) 15-13
189 7.650 14 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
190 7.609 28 Eastern 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
191 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
192 7.591 29 Albright 0.364 (8-14) 10-14
193 7.591 15 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
194 7.577 25 St. Olaf 0.500 (13-13) 13-14
195 7.565 30 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
196 7.565 34 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
197 7.545 16 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
198 7.542 22 Muskingum 0.458 (11-13) 12-13
199 7.542 17 Yeshiva 0.542 (13-11) 15-11
200 7.542 35 Roger Williams 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
Overall Points In-reg rk Team Region Win% Overall
1 11.680 1 UW-Stevens Point 0.960 (24-1) 25-2
2 11.640 1 Amherst 0.960 (24-1) 25-1
3 10.864 2 Worcester Polytech 0.909 (20-2) 22-2
4 10.818 1 Lake Erie 0.955 (21-1) 25-2
5 10.815 2 St. Thomas 0.889 (24-3) 24-3
6 10.704 3 Rhode Island College 0.889 (24-3) 24-3
7 10.667 4 Trinity (Conn.) 0.810 (17-4) 21-4
8 10.654 5 Salem State 0.923 (24-2) 24-2
9 10.636 1 Washington U. 0.818 (18-4) 20-4
10 10.609 1 Mississippi College 0.957 (22-1) 24-2
11 10.577 1 St. Lawrence 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
12 10.542 2 Chicago 0.792 (19-5) 20-5
13 10.480 1 Ramapo 0.800 (20-5) 21-7
14 10.462 3 Aurora 0.923 (24-2) 25-2
15 10.423 2 St. John Fisher 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
16 10.412 3 Occidental 0.824 (14-3) 19-5
17 10.320 6 Brandeis 0.760 (19-6) 19-6
18 10.308 4 Augustana 0.846 (22-4) 22-5
19 10.296 3 Brockport State 0.815 (22-5) 23-5
20 10.292 4 Rochester 0.750 (18-6) 18-7
21 10.269 1 Catholic 0.808 (21-5) 22-5
22 10.250 4 St. John's 0.833 (20-4) 20-7
23 10.200 2 Centre 0.800 (16-4) 22-4
24 10.192 3 Virginia Wesleyan 0.846 (22-4) 23-4
25 10.143 2 Lincoln 0.786 (11-3) 18-8
26 10.120 7 Keene State 0.800 (20-5) 23-5
27 10.091 2 Wooster 0.909 (20-2) 25-3
28 10.087 5 Whitworth 0.870 (20-3) 23-3
29 10.087 6 Loras 0.826 (19-4) 21-6
30 10.083 3 Johns Hopkins 0.875 (21-3) 22-4
31 10.040 3 John Carroll 0.720 (18-7) 19-9
32 10.000 4 Messiah 0.800 (16-4) 19-6
33 9.958 4 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.875 (21-3) 21-6
34 9.917 7 UW-Oshkosh 0.750 (18-6) 21-6
35 9.909 5 Averett 0.818 (18-4) 20-6
36 9.900 4 Hope 0.800 (16-4) 23-4
37 9.885 5 King's 0.731 (19-7) 19-8
38 9.870 6 DePauw 0.826 (19-4) 22-5
39 9.815 2 Manhattanville 0.815 (22-5) 23-5
40 9.808 6 Hood 0.769 (20-6) 21-7
41 9.792 8 UW-La Crosse 0.708 (17-7) 19-8
42 9.750 7 Alvernia 0.917 (22-2) 23-4
43 9.741 7 Mary Hardin-Baylor 0.815 (22-5) 22-5
44 9.741 3 Stevens 0.778 (21-6) 21-6
45 9.708 8 Scranton 0.708 (17-7) 19-7
46 9.708 5 New York University 0.750 (18-6) 19-6
47 9.708 8 Bates 0.708 (17-7) 18-7
48 9.696 6 Hamilton 0.696 (16-7) 19-7
49 9.654 9 Husson 0.846 (22-4) 22-6
50 9.632 9 Lewis and Clark 0.737 (14-5) 19-7
51 9.625 8 Guilford 0.833 (20-4) 21-4
52 9.619 5 Ohio Northern 0.667 (14-7) 19-7
53 9.609 7 Plattsburgh State 0.739 (17-6) 20-8
54 9.583 9 McMurry 0.792 (19-5) 20-7
55 9.520 4 New Jersey City 0.680 (17-8) 18-9
56 9.481 6 Capital 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
57 9.478 5 Elmhurst 0.739 (17-6) 21-6
58 9.458 9 Villa Julie 0.750 (18-6) 20-7
59 9.458 10 DeSales 0.708 (17-7) 19-8
60 9.450 7 Westminster (Pa.) 0.800 (16-4) 18-8
61 9.400 8 Utica 0.720 (18-7) 19-7
62 9.364 8 Wittenberg 0.773 (17-5) 22-5
63 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
64 9.261 6 Grinnell 0.696 (16-7) 17-7
65 9.261 11 FDU-Florham 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
66 9.238 5 Richard Stockton 0.667 (14-7) 17-9
67 9.235 10 Redlands 0.765 (13-4) 17-7
68 9.231 7 Transylvania 0.692 (18-8) 19-8
69 9.200 9 Penn State-Behrend 0.720 (18-7) 19-7
70 9.190 8 Wheaton (Ill.) 0.619 (13-8) 17-9
71 9.185 11 Elms 0.704 (19-8) 20-8
72 9.148 11 UW-Whitewater 0.667 (18-9) 18-9
73 9.143 9 Carthage 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
74 9.143 6 Rowan 0.714 (15-6) 20-6
75 9.100 10 Calvin 0.700 (14-6) 18-9
76 9.091 10 Carroll 0.682 (15-7) 15-8
77 9.091 11 Baldwin-Wallace 0.682 (15-7) 18-9
78 9.091 12 Colby 0.636 (14-8) 15-11
79 9.080 13 Bridgewater State 0.680 (17-8) 17-8
80 9.074 14 Western New England 0.704 (19-8) 19-8
81 9.000 12 Pomona-Pitzer 0.688 (11-5) 16-8
82 9.000 10 Millsaps 0.714 (15-6) 18-9
83 9.000 12 Otterbein 0.600 (15-10) 16-11
84 9.000 7 SUNY-Farmingdale 0.667 (16-8) 18-9
85 9.000 15 Babson 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
86 8.958 8 SUNY-Old Westbury 0.625 (15-9) 18-10
87 8.958 9 William Paterson 0.625 (15-9) 15-10
88 8.958 16 Williams 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
89 8.952 13 Puget Sound 0.714 (15-6) 18-7
90 8.952 14 Cal Lutheran 0.619 (13-8) 17-8
91 8.905 12 Chestnut Hill 0.714 (15-6) 19-9
92 8.885 13 York (Pa.) 0.615 (16-10) 16-10
93 8.880 15 Coe 0.680 (17-8) 19-8
94 8.864 16 Buena Vista 0.636 (14-8) 17-9
95 8.857 11 Bluffton 0.619 (13-8) 18-8
96 8.857 13 Carnegie Mellon 0.524 (11-10) 12-12
97 8.833 14 Susquehanna 0.583 (14-10) 16-10
98 8.826 11 Greensboro 0.739 (17-6) 20-7
99 8.826 15 Juniata 0.652 (15-8) 16-11
100 8.789 12 North Central 0.579 (11-8) 16-10
101 8.783 17 Simpson 0.609 (14-9) 18-9
102 8.783 16 Ursinus 0.652 (15-8) 16-10
103 8.760 13 Edgewood 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
104 8.760 10 Rutgers-Newark 0.600 (15-10) 17-10
105 8.750 17 Mary Washington 0.625 (15-9) 16-10
106 8.739 14 Lake Forest 0.609 (14-9) 15-9
107 8.708 14 Ohio Wesleyan 0.625 (15-9) 18-10
108 8.704 17 Lasell 0.593 (16-11) 16-11
109 8.696 12 Trinity (Texas) 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
110 8.680 9 Clarkson 0.560 (14-11) 14-11
111 8.680 18 Westfield State 0.600 (15-10) 17-11
112 8.667 10 Geneseo State 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
113 8.667 19 Gordon 0.667 (16-8) 19-8
114 8.652 11 Vassar 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
115 8.640 18 Bethel 0.680 (17-8) 18-8
116 8.630 15 Dominican 0.630 (17-10) 17-10
117 8.625 12 Oswego State 0.583 (14-10) 15-12
118 8.609 18 Baptist Bible 0.696 (16-7) 18-8
119 8.600 20 Middlebury 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
120 8.524 19 Haverford 0.619 (13-8) 14-11
121 8.522 16 Defiance 0.609 (14-9) 17-9
122 8.500 13 Texas-Dallas 0.667 (16-8) 18-8
123 8.500 11 York (N.Y.) 0.708 (17-7) 18-10
124 8.462 20 St. Mary's (Md.) 0.577 (15-11) 16-11
125 8.458 13 Rochester Tech 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
126 8.455 15 Bethany 0.682 (15-7) 19-8
127 8.440 21 Mass-Dartmouth 0.560 (14-11) 14-13
128 8.423 22 Endicott 0.577 (15-11) 15-11
129 8.400 17 Fontbonne 0.600 (12-8) 16-11
130 8.381 18 Mt. St. Joseph 0.571 (12-9) 13-12
131 8.364 19 Ripon 0.545 (12-10) 13-10
132 8.364 14 Ithaca 0.545 (12-10) 14-12
133 8.353 19 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.588 (10-7) 15-10
134 8.346 23 Rivier 0.731 (19-7) 20-8
135 8.333 20 Hanover 0.571 (12-9) 14-11
136 8.333 14 Hardin-Simmons 0.593 (16-11) 16-11
137 8.333 16 Tri-State 0.611 (11-7) 16-9
138 8.333 15 SUNYIT 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
139 8.333 24 Bowdoin 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
140 8.320 12 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.640 (16-9) 17-9
141 8.318 21 Webster 0.591 (13-9) 16-10
142 8.304 25 Emerson 0.652 (15-8) 16-9
143 8.238 22 Lawrence 0.524 (11-10) 13-10
144 8.211 20 Chapman 0.737 (14-5) 21-5
145 8.208 23 Lakeland 0.583 (14-10) 16-11
146 8.200 24 Franklin 0.600 (15-10) 16-10
147 8.148 26 Wentworth Tech 0.630 (17-10) 17-11
148 8.143 25 MacMurray 0.619 (13-8) 16-9
149 8.143 21 Lycoming 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
150 8.115 27 MIT 0.500 (13-13) 14-13
151 8.105 17 Albion 0.526 (10-9) 10-15
152 8.095 21 UW-Platteville 0.524 (11-10) 13-12
153 8.091 26 Manchester 0.545 (12-10) 15-10
154 8.091 22 Wilkes 0.500 (11-11) 12-11
155 8.080 23 Widener 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
156 8.053 28 St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.632 (12-7) 19-7
157 8.000 22 Gustavus Adolphus 0.538 (14-12) 14-13
158 8.000 15 Roanoke 0.636 (14-8) 17-10
159 8.000 16 Hampden-Sydney 0.583 (14-10) 17-10
160 8.000 29 Springfield 0.462 (12-14) 12-14
161 7.958 18 Heidelberg 0.500 (12-12) 13-13
162 7.958 30 Western Connecticut 0.542 (13-11) 14-12
163 7.955 31 Eastern Connecticut 0.545 (12-10) 15-11
164 7.947 17 Hendrix 0.526 (10-9) 15-10
165 7.917 27 Wisconsin Lutheran 0.583 (14-10) 15-11
166 7.917 16 RPI 0.500 (12-12) 13-12
167 7.913 18 LeTourneau 0.609 (14-9) 15-10
168 7.900 24 Marymount 0.500 (10-10) 14-11
169 7.889 23 Pacific 0.556 (10-8) 12-13
170 7.889 19 Adrian 0.556 (10-8) 10-15
171 7.880 20 Wilmington 0.480 (12-13) 13-13
172 7.864 24 Carleton 0.500 (11-11) 11-15
173 7.826 13 Kings Point 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
174 7.818 21 Grove City 0.545 (12-10) 16-12
175 7.818 17 Union 0.500 (11-11) 11-14
176 7.783 28 Eureka 0.565 (13-10) 16-10
177 7.783 25 Lebanon Valley 0.522 (12-11) 14-11
178 7.778 19 LaGrange 0.611 (11-7) 18-9
179 7.773 18 Alfred 0.455 (10-12) 10-14
180 7.760 20 Oglethorpe 0.520 (13-12) 14-12
181 7.739 29 North Park 0.478 (11-12) 13-12
182 7.727 19 Buffalo State 0.455 (10-12) 12-13
183 7.708 20 Hobart 0.417 (10-14) 11-14
184 7.708 32 Emmanuel 0.458 (11-13) 12-16
185 7.667 26 Gettysburg 0.542 (13-11) 13-13
186 7.667 27 Pitt-Bradford 0.519 (14-13) 14-13
187 7.667 21 Oneonta State 0.476 (10-11) 11-15
188 7.667 33 Curry 0.556 (15-12) 15-13
189 7.650 14 Montclair State 0.400 (8-12) 12-12
190 7.609 28 Eastern 0.609 (14-9) 16-11
191 7.609 22 Nazareth 0.435 (10-13) 11-14
192 7.591 29 Albright 0.364 (8-14) 10-14
193 7.591 15 Kean 0.455 (10-12) 13-12
194 7.577 25 St. Olaf 0.500 (13-13) 13-14
195 7.565 30 Gwynedd-Mercy 0.565 (13-10) 14-12
196 7.565 34 Castleton State 0.565 (13-10) 15-11
197 7.545 16 New Jersey 0.409 (9-13) 12-14
198 7.542 22 Muskingum 0.458 (11-13) 12-13
199 7.542 17 Yeshiva 0.542 (13-11) 15-11
200 7.542 35 Roger Williams 0.583 (14-10) 15-10
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 25, 2007, 02:17:28 PM
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 25, 2007, 02:17:28 PM
After St. Joes beat Lincoln yesterday in the D3 Independents tourney, does it shake things up at all, perhaps giving St. Joes that outside chance of getting a B bid, or is it still pretty much set that Lincoln still has there spot?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2007, 02:32:54 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2007, 02:32:54 PM
No change. That game was not regional, which means for all practical purposes it doesn't count in the selection process.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 26, 2007, 09:21:53 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 26, 2007, 09:21:53 AM
Congratulations to Lincoln for making it to the "Big Dance" again. Hopefully the Lions can exit d3 with a bang since this is the last hurrah for the Lions.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 26, 2007, 09:53:38 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 26, 2007, 09:53:38 AM
Looking at the brackets, Lincoln had a good draw! First round game aganist Alvernia. If the Lions advance, there is a second round game with Catholic, or a second round rematch with Messiah.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 27, 2007, 06:49:43 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 27, 2007, 06:49:43 PM
Any opinions as to how Lincoln and the other three Pool B teams will do this weekend?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2007, 08:45:49 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 28, 2007, 08:45:49 AM
Lincoln has the easiest road, but they did get matched up with perhaps the best team in their section. Aurora is very good and I have them winning a couple games, but of course in the loaded West/Midwest just about anything can happen.
I don't think Westminster has much of a shot and Maryville will have a really hard fought game, although they appear to be the favorite according to the NCAA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 28, 2007, 04:46:52 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on February 28, 2007, 04:46:52 PM
Hoops Fan:
What team are you referring too as being the best team in the section, that Lincoln is matched up with?
What team are you referring too as being the best team in the section, that Lincoln is matched up with?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2007, 08:54:29 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2007, 08:54:29 AM
Of the three other teams in that area, I think Alvernia might be the best opponent they could face. I know there's not a lot to back that up right now, but they seem like a sneaky team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 10:12:16 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 10:12:16 AM
I've been chatting with Alvernia fan "chairman", and from what I've gathered, the Crusaders are solid and methodical. Hopefully Lincoln will get out of the gate fast, and the Lions deep rotation will keep Alvernia off their game.
Interestingly, Alvernia, Messiah and Lincoln opened last years NCAA's at Lincoln with CNU being the 4th team.
Interestingly, Alvernia, Messiah and Lincoln opened last years NCAA's at Lincoln with CNU being the 4th team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2007, 03:15:52 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2007, 03:15:52 PM
Chairman is not an Alvernia fan.
BTW, just a reminder that D3hoops.com is broadcasting the Lincoln/Alvernia game and Catholic/Messiah game for NCAASports.com.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
BTW, just a reminder that D3hoops.com is broadcasting the Lincoln/Alvernia game and Catholic/Messiah game for NCAASports.com.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 04:18:14 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 04:18:14 PM
Pat:
Thanks for the info ( re: chairman), and thanks for broadcasting the Catholic Regional games, so that I can listen up here in North Jersey. I emailed some of my fellow alums in the D.C. metro area, and suggested that they go out to support the Lions. It be interesting to see how support Lincoln gets.
Thanks for the info ( re: chairman), and thanks for broadcasting the Catholic Regional games, so that I can listen up here in North Jersey. I emailed some of my fellow alums in the D.C. metro area, and suggested that they go out to support the Lions. It be interesting to see how support Lincoln gets.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 10:00:53 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 10:00:53 PM
Lincoln defeats Alvernia 91-76.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 10:06:13 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 02, 2007, 10:06:13 PM
Pat Coleman & Jim McCabe:
Excellent job tonight broadcasting the Catholic Region games.
Excellent job tonight broadcasting the Catholic Region games.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: mattgrubb on March 03, 2007, 05:31:00 AM
Post by: mattgrubb on March 03, 2007, 05:31:00 AM
maryville had a good showing for the B's tonight with a win over a C
Love to see that win over the C
while i think it is easier to get in the tourney with a B bid for maryville, they always make at least 1 thing happen a year, thats at least 1 win
Love to see that win over the C
while i think it is easier to get in the tourney with a B bid for maryville, they always make at least 1 thing happen a year, thats at least 1 win
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 03, 2007, 09:06:49 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 03, 2007, 09:06:49 PM
Lincoln defeats Catholic tonight 81-70 to move onto the sweet sixteen aganist Guilford College.
Congratulations to the Lions on their second consectutive sweet sixteen appearance.
Congratulations to the Lions on their second consectutive sweet sixteen appearance.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2007, 08:56:17 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 05, 2007, 08:56:17 AM
Maryville has now won at least one game in the NCAA Tournament for 11 consecutive years. That's quite a run.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 05, 2007, 11:29:43 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 05, 2007, 11:29:43 PM
Maryville's first round win streak does speak well for the program. Mississippi College loses a lot of good players this year so maybe the Scots can get out of Mississippi next year (except they lose about 30 points/game with the departure of the senior posts).
Thanks for reminding folks!
Thanks for reminding folks!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 12:11:44 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 12:11:44 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 05, 2007, 11:29:43 PM
Maryville's first round win streak does speak well for the program. Mississippi College loses a lot of good players this year so maybe the Scots can get out of Mississippi next year (except they lose about 30 points/game with the departure of the senior posts).
Thanks for reminding folks!
But if Miss Coll doesn't win the AQ and misses a Pool C bid, then someone like McMurry or UMHB has won the AQ and may get sent West.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 06, 2007, 12:27:21 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 06, 2007, 12:27:21 PM
Good point, Ralph! From Maryville's perspective, it never occurs to us that Miss Coll would not win the ASC, but obviously such things do happen!! And as I understand it, they lose quite a few good players (but will probably replace them from the juco's). And I am not sure it will matter for Murvul if we cannot find some inside scorers.
I wonder when the NCAA will figure out how many real B slots there will be next year.
I wonder when the NCAA will figure out how many real B slots there will be next year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2007, 12:45:39 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2007, 12:45:39 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 06, 2007, 12:27:21 PM
I wonder when the NCAA will figure out how many real B slots there will be next year.
When the 2007-2008 NCAA Division Three Men's Basketball Championship Handbook comes out. This year it was out very early; some years it takes until after the holidays.
That is where the official word is given, although I'm assuming someone knows shortly before then as they have to do layout and such. We could guess, but a lot will depend on how many provisionals are accepted as full members and how many teams end up leaving conferences this summer, etc. It will be a lot easier to guess come fall.
Some things we know for sure, Maryville will still have the NathCon to contend with for one more year and Lincoln will no longer be a concern.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:03:56 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2007, 01:03:56 PM
We should be looking at pretty much the same numbers, as the Presidents' Athletic Conference get an automatic bid and the eight members of the Landmark Conference join Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 01:10:29 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 01:10:29 PM
Well, Pat Coleman beat me to it. :)
Seven Pres AC go to Pool A and pull a Pool B/C bid.
Colorado College goes to Pool A (SCAC).
Lincoln goes to D2.
Do any other schools move to D2?
Do any other (Pool B) schools join existing conferences?
Thus I count 9 schools leaving Pool B.
Eight Landmark teams leave Pool A conferences and go to Pool B.
I think that all of the provisionals for the 2003-04 class have made it thru, and none enter Pool B. (The men's schools are UT-Tyler, Finlandia in 2006-07, plus Palm Beach Atlantic which left for D2. I think that Tri-State will be promoted to full member so that gives another school in the numerator of the access ratio.)
Those are the ones about which I know.
The impact on the access ratio (the number of Pool A schools divided by the number of conferences) goes down with the addition of the Pres AC becoming the 38th AQ men's conference.
Since bids are allocated by the number of schools divided by 6.5, we might get another bid just due to "population" growth. We will know when we can determine the number of schools declaring for the Championship.
We are right at 3-4 bids.
Seven Pres AC go to Pool A and pull a Pool B/C bid.
Colorado College goes to Pool A (SCAC).
Lincoln goes to D2.
Do any other schools move to D2?
Do any other (Pool B) schools join existing conferences?
Thus I count 9 schools leaving Pool B.
Eight Landmark teams leave Pool A conferences and go to Pool B.
I think that all of the provisionals for the 2003-04 class have made it thru, and none enter Pool B. (The men's schools are UT-Tyler, Finlandia in 2006-07, plus Palm Beach Atlantic which left for D2. I think that Tri-State will be promoted to full member so that gives another school in the numerator of the access ratio.)
Those are the ones about which I know.
The impact on the access ratio (the number of Pool A schools divided by the number of conferences) goes down with the addition of the Pres AC becoming the 38th AQ men's conference.
Since bids are allocated by the number of schools divided by 6.5, we might get another bid just due to "population" growth. We will know when we can determine the number of schools declaring for the Championship.
We are right at 3-4 bids.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2007, 01:36:09 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2007, 01:36:09 PM
I'm still feeling the undercurrents in NE, that there might be some significant shifting this summer. Maybe the shifts won't go into effect for another year, but I know a lot of the smaller schools are talking about switching conferences and creating conferences and lots of fun stuff like that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on March 06, 2007, 02:08:22 PM
Post by: sac on March 06, 2007, 02:08:22 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 01:10:29 PM
We are right at 3-4 bids.
Based on past history............3 bids untill around mid February, then 4.
So basically we lose another C bid, unless we gain another tournament slot.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 02:16:00 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 02:16:00 PM
Quote from: sac on March 06, 2007, 02:08:22 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2007, 01:10:29 PM
We are right at 3-4 bids.
Based on past history............3 bids untill around mid February, then 4.
So basically we lose another C bid, unless we gain another tournament slot.
:D ;D :D ;D 8)
+1 sac! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2007, 06:32:25 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 08, 2007, 06:32:25 PM
Thank you Keith McMillan and d3sports on your article on Lincoln University and Coach Garfield Yuille. I appreciate the fair and honest reporting.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 09, 2007, 09:07:43 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 09, 2007, 09:07:43 AM
It's great to see Lincoln on the d3hoops home page, however I hope it dosen't prove to be the "d3hoops/SI cover jinx".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 09, 2007, 10:55:02 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on March 09, 2007, 10:55:02 PM
..........................And then there were no Pool B teams left as Lincoln lost to Guilford in triple OT 129-128.
It's on to DII now.
It's on to DII now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 09, 2007, 11:17:13 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 09, 2007, 11:17:13 PM
njlincolnlion: Sorry about tonight and good luck in D2. I'll miss you on the B's board next year. You and the Lions were the consistent otherthanMaryville team at the top of the B's lately. Wonder who'll step up now!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on May 08, 2007, 10:12:45 AM
Post by: njlincolnlion on May 08, 2007, 10:12:45 AM
scottiedoug:
Looks like Maryville will have the B's all to themselves, however, I think the Bethany supporters will try to make a case for their inclusion.
Looks like Maryville will have the B's all to themselves, however, I think the Bethany supporters will try to make a case for their inclusion.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 08, 2007, 11:46:52 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 08, 2007, 11:46:52 AM
Bethany's league gets an AQ next year too. But the Landmark Conference does not and neither does the NAThCon.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on May 09, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
Post by: sac on May 09, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
Could we get a refresher on who's in those conferences again?
Also, is the conference with all the Minnesota provisional schools eligible for the post-season this year?
Also, is the conference with all the Minnesota provisional schools eligible for the post-season this year?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 09, 2007, 01:10:31 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 09, 2007, 01:10:31 PM
Things actually look somewhat official that there will be a new conference in New England beginning play in 2008-2009. Not a lot of specifics yet, but undoubtedly it will eventually be another AQ from a mostly non-competitive conference.
But if it comes to fruition it will be some more B teams to take over after the NathCon moves on.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 09, 2007, 04:02:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 09, 2007, 04:02:36 PM
Quote from: sac on May 09, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
Could we get a refresher on who's in those conferences again?
Also, is the conference with all the Minnesota provisional schools eligible for the post-season this year?
UMAC won't have an automatic bid either, though we haven't had much reason to worry about them and Pool B yet.
This is the NAthCon, with Milwaukee School of Engineering joining next season.
http://www.d3hoops.com/conference_info.php?conf=NATHC&team=m
The Landmark is Catholic, Drew, Goucher, Juniata, Merchant Marine, Moravian, Scranton, Susquehanna.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on May 09, 2007, 06:48:28 PM
Post by: John Gleich on May 09, 2007, 06:48:28 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 09, 2007, 04:02:36 PMQuote from: sac on May 09, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
Could we get a refresher on who's in those conferences again?
Also, is the conference with all the Minnesota provisional schools eligible for the post-season this year?
UMAC won't have an automatic bid either, though we haven't had much reason to worry about them and Pool B yet.
This is the NAthCon, with Milwaukee School of Engineering joining next season.
http://www.d3hoops.com/conference_info.php?conf=NATHC&team=m
The Landmark is Catholic, Drew, Goucher, Juniata, Merchant Marine, Moravian, Scranton, Susquehanna.
So, the available Pool B's are these, plus a handfull of possible inde's (Neb Wesleyan, etc) ?
If so, then it really shouldn't be THAT difficult to figure out how many bids there will be for B's... Unless the NCAA is trying to break the record for the number of seasons of consecutive administrative mediocrity that is...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2007, 12:26:10 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2007, 12:26:10 AM
The President AC sends 7 teams to the numerator of Pool A as 8 come out for the Landmark Conference.
Tri-State, Keystone and UT-Tyler are the Provisionals joining this year, and they go into established conferences (MIAA, NEAC, ASC). This will impact the numerator of Pool A from which the access ratio is calculated.
Colorado College leaves Pool B to join the SCAC.
Fisk is rumored to be reclassifying to D2. Lincoln is re-classifying to D2.
I believe that St Joe's Maine will become a full member in theNorth Atlantic Conference GNAC in 2007-08.
Clarke IA leaves for the NAIA.
There is some question about the number of bids because the access ratio gave a bid number that was just below 4. When the proper number of Pool B schools was determined, it changed the number of Pool B bids.
See my post last fall. (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2870.706)
I count Finlandia in the Great Lakes, the NAthCon 12 (including MSOE) in the Midwest for the last year, none in the Atlantic, none in the Mid-Atlantic besides the Landmark 8, none in the East, Newbury and (coming from D2) Green Mountain VT in the Northeast, the GSAC 4 plus UDallas and Rust in the South, and 6 in the West (the UMAC 3, Neb Wes, Chapman and UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs).
I count 35 Pool B teams for 2007-08. I think that that is 3 bids.
When the NAthCon 12 leave, that drops it to 23 teams (not counting new provisionals) for 2 bids in 2008-09. When the Landmark 8 leave in the 2009-10 that leaves 15 or one bid.
Pool B is going away!
I understand that these are the schools in line as provisionals and re-classifications and the year they become a full member:
2007-08: Keystone (NEAC), UT-Tyler (ASC), Tri-State (MIAA), Green Mountain VT
2008-09: Crown MN (UMAC), UM-Presque Isle, Mt Aloysius (AMCC), Mount Mary (female), PSU-Berks (NEAC), UM-Morris (UMAC).
2009-10: Bethany Lutheran (UMAC), La Sierra CA, Mitchell CT, North Central University (UMAC Indep) , Northwestern MN (UMAC), Presentation (UMAC), SUNY-Purchase (NEAC going to the Skyline?), Salem College NC (female).
2010-11: Lancaster Bible PA, Lincoln Christian College & Seminary (SLAIC), Lyndon State VT, Saint Vincent (Pres AC). SUNY Morrisville.
I think that we get another bid for the men's tourney in 2009 and another in 2011.
I hope that the NCAA will place a higher priority on the handbooks and their content this year.
Tri-State, Keystone and UT-Tyler are the Provisionals joining this year, and they go into established conferences (MIAA, NEAC, ASC). This will impact the numerator of Pool A from which the access ratio is calculated.
Colorado College leaves Pool B to join the SCAC.
Fisk is rumored to be reclassifying to D2. Lincoln is re-classifying to D2.
I believe that St Joe's Maine will become a full member in the
Clarke IA leaves for the NAIA.
There is some question about the number of bids because the access ratio gave a bid number that was just below 4. When the proper number of Pool B schools was determined, it changed the number of Pool B bids.
See my post last fall. (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=2870.706)
I count Finlandia in the Great Lakes, the NAthCon 12 (including MSOE) in the Midwest for the last year, none in the Atlantic, none in the Mid-Atlantic besides the Landmark 8, none in the East, Newbury and (coming from D2) Green Mountain VT in the Northeast, the GSAC 4 plus UDallas and Rust in the South, and 6 in the West (the UMAC 3, Neb Wes, Chapman and UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs).
I count 35 Pool B teams for 2007-08. I think that that is 3 bids.
When the NAthCon 12 leave, that drops it to 23 teams (not counting new provisionals) for 2 bids in 2008-09. When the Landmark 8 leave in the 2009-10 that leaves 15 or one bid.
Pool B is going away!
I understand that these are the schools in line as provisionals and re-classifications and the year they become a full member:
2007-08: Keystone (NEAC), UT-Tyler (ASC), Tri-State (MIAA), Green Mountain VT
2008-09: Crown MN (UMAC), UM-Presque Isle, Mt Aloysius (AMCC), Mount Mary (female), PSU-Berks (NEAC), UM-Morris (UMAC).
2009-10: Bethany Lutheran (UMAC), La Sierra CA, Mitchell CT, North Central University (
2010-11: Lancaster Bible PA, Lincoln Christian College & Seminary (SLAIC), Lyndon State VT, Saint Vincent (Pres AC). SUNY Morrisville.
I think that we get another bid for the men's tourney in 2009 and another in 2011.
I hope that the NCAA will place a higher priority on the handbooks and their content this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 10, 2007, 10:19:11 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 10, 2007, 10:19:11 AM
Minor point of clarification -- North Central (Minn.) is not in the UMAC. That school is independent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2007, 10:25:15 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2007, 10:25:15 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on May 10, 2007, 10:19:11 AMThanks! Corrected! :)
Minor point of clarification -- North Central (Minn.) is not in the UMAC. That school is independent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 10, 2007, 10:38:10 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 10, 2007, 10:38:10 AM
A couple of clarifications from the NE, Ralph. St. Joe's is going to the GNAC not the NAC, but regardless they are getting out of Pool B.
Also, there is increasing likelihood that a new conference will be forming in New England that will begin two years of Pool B play in 2008-2009. We don't know the final list of teams that will join, but it looks like only two of them will be independents, so that will add a few more Pool B teams for 08-09 and 09-10.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2007, 11:03:20 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 10, 2007, 11:03:20 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 10, 2007, 10:38:10 AMHoops fan, thanks for keeping me, as well as others, informed on the shuffling that is happening in the Northeast.
A couple of clarifications from the NE, Ralph. St. Joe's is going to the GNAC not the NAC, but regardless they are getting out of Pool B.
Also, there is increasing likelihood that a new conference will be forming in New England that will begin two years of Pool B play in 2008-2009. We don't know the final list of teams that will join, but it looks like only two of them will be independents, so that will add a few more Pool B teams for 08-09 and 09-10.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 10, 2007, 11:55:12 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 10, 2007, 11:55:12 AM
What's crazy is that supposedly this will be announced in a couple of weeks, but the schools I'm hearing as involved are seven men's school and one women's school (two of the men's schools have just recently begun men's sports). In other words, they are hoping to attract other schools around the region to the conference. That could mean additional shifting and moving throughout the next year.
The NAC is being devastated in the move, so they will need to do some serious shifting to remain viable as well. We'll see how it all pans out in the end.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on May 10, 2007, 02:28:08 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on May 10, 2007, 02:28:08 PM
Pat:
Thanks for the info on Bethany.
Thanks for the info on Bethany.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 11, 2007, 11:32:08 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 11, 2007, 11:32:08 AM
It's in the Rutland Herald, so I'm guessing there's some truth to the rumors:
A new New England Conference will be forming for play in the 2008-2009 season. They haven't picked a name yet (I'm voting for the Conference of Regional Athletic Participation), but members will be: Bay Path (women only), Wheelock, Lesley, Becker, Elms, Newbury, Mitchell, and Daniel Webster.
Word is they will be looking to recruit some other schools as well.
This leaves the NAC with only six schools (Johnson State, Castleton State, Husson, Thomas, ME-Maritime, and ME-Farmington). Both Green Mountain College and Lyndon State have applied for membership. They're still doing due diligence, but it would be silly for the NAC to reject either of them. Both are still provisional, however, so I don't know how that would affect the NAC's Pool A status.
Regardless, this will provide at least five new Pool B school for 2008-2009 (Newbury and Mitchell were already independent).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 11, 2007, 12:33:29 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 11, 2007, 12:33:29 PM
For the sake of pun-minded sportswriters, the NAC simply HAS to admit Lyndon St. to join Johnson St.! (Any chance Castleton St. would consider a name-change to Baines St.?) ;)
I like your proposed name for the new conference, though suspect it has as much chance as the WIAC returning to the WSUC! But, by whatever name, they look destined for immortality on the (non)Survivor Pool thread.
I like your proposed name for the new conference, though suspect it has as much chance as the WIAC returning to the WSUC! But, by whatever name, they look destined for immortality on the (non)Survivor Pool thread.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 11, 2007, 04:32:33 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 11, 2007, 04:32:33 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on May 11, 2007, 12:33:29 PM
But, by whatever name, they look destined for immortality on the (non)Survivor Pool thread.
Well if they're playing each other a lot, that means they will probably win more games every year. Becker could become a middle of the pack team in this conference. The bigger question is how Elms lucked out so much. This is like Memphis in the new C-USA. One of these things is not like the other...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2007, 06:37:19 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2007, 06:37:19 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on May 11, 2007, 11:32:08 AM
It's in the Rutland Herald, so I'm guessing there's some truth to the rumors:
A new New England Conference will be forming for play in the 2008-2009 season. They haven't picked a name yet (I'm voting for the Conference of Regional Athletic Participation), but members will be: Bay Path (women only), Wheelock, Lesley, Becker, Elms, Newbury, Mitchell, and Daniel Webster.
Word is they will be looking to recruit some other schools as well.
This leaves the NAC with only six schools (Johnson State, Castleton State, Husson, Thomas, ME-Maritime, and ME-Farmington). Both Green Mountain College and Lyndon State have applied for membership. They're still doing due diligence, but it would be silly for the NAC to reject either of them. Both are still provisional, however, so I don't know how that would affect the NAC's Pool A status.
Regardless, this will provide at least five new Pool B school for 2008-2009 (Newbury and Mitchell were already independent).
Green Mountain should be a full member in August 2007.
Which league is a logical choice for ME-Presque Isle? Anyone?
Please help me with the geography.
Which is the NAC predominantly north and NewLeague south or urban or closer to each other?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 11, 2007, 08:02:25 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on May 11, 2007, 08:02:25 PM
Ralph,
Presque Isle is a toughie - unless I've overlooked someone, the nearest d3 school would be Husson (NAC), and that's at least 150 miles to the south. That may not sound like much to a Texan, but try it in Maine during basketball season! (To give an idea of UMPI's location, between 80 and 90% of all Canadians live SOUTH of Presque Isle!)
I'm not really familiar with Canadian schools, but I suspect there may be several schools in New Brunswick that are closer than any US schools - perhaps they should consider secession! (Though that got rather unpleasant when South Carolina tried it!)
Presque Isle is a toughie - unless I've overlooked someone, the nearest d3 school would be Husson (NAC), and that's at least 150 miles to the south. That may not sound like much to a Texan, but try it in Maine during basketball season! (To give an idea of UMPI's location, between 80 and 90% of all Canadians live SOUTH of Presque Isle!)
I'm not really familiar with Canadian schools, but I suspect there may be several schools in New Brunswick that are closer than any US schools - perhaps they should consider secession! (Though that got rather unpleasant when South Carolina tried it!)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on May 12, 2007, 12:09:45 AM
Post by: David Collinge on May 12, 2007, 12:09:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 11, 2007, 06:37:19 PM
Which league is a logical choice for ME-Presque Isle? Anyone?
The CFL. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 14, 2007, 11:33:59 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on May 14, 2007, 11:33:59 AM
The NAC would be a natural choice. Yeah, UMPI is about 150 miles from Bangor (where Husson is located), but in Maine this is a three hour drive. That's an eternity in New England for your closest opponent. And when you figure in Johnson State, that's an eight hour drive, the quickest route (according to Google maps) for which involves more than 300 miles in Canada.
UMPI is just out on its own. If they had a travel partner it might work, but I'm not sure they'll ever get accepted to any conference unless there is one that forms just for Maine schools.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2007, 12:15:18 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2007, 12:15:18 AM
The 2008 Handbook has been released. (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2008/2008_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf)
It is not very "Bumblin'" with the Landmark teams in Pool B for 2 years.
There are 4 Pool B bids this year.
It is not very "Bumblin'" with the Landmark teams in Pool B for 2 years.
There are 4 Pool B bids this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2007, 12:33:00 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2007, 12:33:00 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2007, 12:15:18 AM
The 2008 Handbook has been released. (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2008/2008_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf)
It is not very "Bumblin'" with the Landmark teams in Pool B for 2 years.
There are 4 Pool B bids this year.
There are 38 Pool B schools this year. This includes Nebraska Wesleyan, Lincoln (Pennsylvania) and Fisk to get to 38. The calculated access ratio is 1:9.29. Had there been only 37 schools, there would have been only 3 Pool B bids.
In the 38 schools are the Landmark 8 (which should gain the Pool A bid in the 2010 tourney), the Northern Athletics Conference 12 (which should get the Pool A bid in 2009), and the UMAC 8, 5 of whom should be full members by 2010, and giving the Pool A bid in 2012.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on October 24, 2007, 07:41:05 AM
Post by: hopefan on October 24, 2007, 07:41:05 AM
Why would Fisk and Lincoln be assigned "B" status when they play virtually no NCAA D3 schools? Could a school that plays only 3 or 4 games get a bid? - I'd hope not - then why include them in the base?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on October 24, 2007, 08:07:40 AM
Post by: wilburt on October 24, 2007, 08:07:40 AM
Quote from: hopefan on October 24, 2007, 07:41:05 AM
Why would Fisk and Lincoln be assigned "B" status when they play virtually no NCAA D3 schools? Could a school that plays only 3 or 4 games get a bid? - I'd hope not - then why include them in the base?
Fisk is included in the base (aka "B" status) because they are an independent school with membership in NCAA Division III. Scheduling has no bearing on that. Those are two SEPARATE issues my friend!
Lincoln is a provisional member of NCAA Division II, so I don't see why they are still included as a D3 member. Schools are free to schedule who they want to and Fisk has chosen to schedule more of its traditional rivals who tend to play in D2 than D3 South Region opponents.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2007, 08:29:14 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on October 24, 2007, 08:29:14 AM
I think Lincoln is technically still in D-III for one more year, but are not eligible for the post-season. Maybe I'm wrong here and the NCAA screwed up; it's happened before, often (on both counts).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on October 24, 2007, 08:49:35 AM
Post by: wilburt on October 24, 2007, 08:49:35 AM
It's unclear from Pat's daily dose what Lincoln's status is?
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/07/19/lincoln-officially-gone-to-division-ii/
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/07/19/lincoln-officially-gone-to-division-ii/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 11:44:29 AM
Post by: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 11:44:29 AM
The math in the handbook is wrong, but the results come out the same.
There are 387 schools, of which 349 (not 344) are in AQ conferences. So the access ratio is 349/38 = 9.18, not 344/37 = 9.29.
Guess what? 344 and 9.29 are in last year's handbook. They forgot to update the text on those two lines.
Anyway, with a 9.18 ratio, four bids requires 37 teams, so even if Lincoln is reallocated, as I believe they should be, there will still be a 38-4-17 split of the bids.
Other than that, I agree with the math.
The other news from the handbook is confirmation on regional allocation, where they're doing what they did with soccer already:
Colorado College stays in the West, despite joining the SCAC.
Merchant Marine stays in the Atlantic because the Landmark isn't a qualifying conference yet; they'll probably move to the Mid-Atlantic when it does.
Stevens, Bard, Manhattanville, and Centenary change regions to match their new conferences.
The new schools are allocated regions that generally make sense, with Spalding (Kentucky) being assigned to the Great Lakes and St. Joseph's (Brooklyn, NY) being assigned (illogically) to the East.
There are 387 schools, of which 349 (not 344) are in AQ conferences. So the access ratio is 349/38 = 9.18, not 344/37 = 9.29.
Guess what? 344 and 9.29 are in last year's handbook. They forgot to update the text on those two lines.
Anyway, with a 9.18 ratio, four bids requires 37 teams, so even if Lincoln is reallocated, as I believe they should be, there will still be a 38-4-17 split of the bids.
Other than that, I agree with the math.
The other news from the handbook is confirmation on regional allocation, where they're doing what they did with soccer already:
Colorado College stays in the West, despite joining the SCAC.
Merchant Marine stays in the Atlantic because the Landmark isn't a qualifying conference yet; they'll probably move to the Mid-Atlantic when it does.
Stevens, Bard, Manhattanville, and Centenary change regions to match their new conferences.
The new schools are allocated regions that generally make sense, with Spalding (Kentucky) being assigned to the Great Lakes and St. Joseph's (Brooklyn, NY) being assigned (illogically) to the East.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on October 24, 2007, 12:13:42 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on October 24, 2007, 12:13:42 PM
Quote from: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 11:44:29 AM
The math in the handbook is wrong, but the results come out the same.
There are 387 schools, of which 349 (not 344) are in AQ conferences. So the access ratio is 349/38 = 9.18, not 344/37 = 9.29.
Guess what? 344 and 9.29 are in last year's handbook. They forgot to update the text on those two lines.
Anyway, with a 9.18 ratio, four bids requires 37 teams, so even if Lincoln is reallocated, as I believe they should be, there will still be a 38-4-17 split of the bids.
Other than that, I agree with the math.
The other news from the handbook is confirmation on regional allocation, where they're doing what they did with soccer already:
Colorado College stays in the West, despite joining the SCAC.
Merchant Marine stays in the Atlantic because the Landmark isn't a qualifying conference yet; they'll probably move to the Mid-Atlantic when it does.
Stevens, Bard, Manhattanville, and Centenary change regions to match their new conferences.
The new schools are allocated regions that generally make sense, with Spalding (Kentucky) being assigned to the Great Lakes and St. Joseph's (Brooklyn, NY) being assigned (illogically) to the East.
When has the NCAA been logical? In my opinion the Landmark should have been assigned to the Atlantic Region. The Atlantic loses three more schools now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2007, 12:40:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on October 24, 2007, 12:40:37 PM
Plus pabegg and KS...thanks for the comments.
When I posted that last night, I was "cruisin' on fumes" at the end of a long day. I did not want to spend the time "doin' the math".
If I could change schools' regions, I would try to move conferences for the sake of increasing the number of in-region games available.
Move Colorado College to the South Region. The state of Colorado is in Administrative Region #4, so adding them to the South (Basketball Evaluation) Region would increase the number of available schools for in-region games to those in the GSAC, the USAC, the ODAC and the Miss College and Louisiana College.
Move Finlandia on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to the West (Basketball Evaluation) Region. That makes all of the games against teams from Wisconsin and Minnesota in-region games, and Finlandia still resides in Administrative Region #3 to be included with Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, etc.
I agree with putting the Landmark in the Atlantic Region to increase the number of in-region games available, and to give some competition to the NJAC for Regionally Ranked teams. The use of Administrative Region here to expand in-region games is not as clear cut because District of Columbia, Maryland, and New Jersey are in Administrative Region #1. Pennsylvania and New York are in #2. Please remember that the 200-mile radius rule is also available for the sake of defining in-region.
When I posted that last night, I was "cruisin' on fumes" at the end of a long day. I did not want to spend the time "doin' the math".
If I could change schools' regions, I would try to move conferences for the sake of increasing the number of in-region games available.
Move Colorado College to the South Region. The state of Colorado is in Administrative Region #4, so adding them to the South (Basketball Evaluation) Region would increase the number of available schools for in-region games to those in the GSAC, the USAC, the ODAC and the Miss College and Louisiana College.
Move Finlandia on the Upper Peninsula of Michigan to the West (Basketball Evaluation) Region. That makes all of the games against teams from Wisconsin and Minnesota in-region games, and Finlandia still resides in Administrative Region #3 to be included with Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, etc.
I agree with putting the Landmark in the Atlantic Region to increase the number of in-region games available, and to give some competition to the NJAC for Regionally Ranked teams. The use of Administrative Region here to expand in-region games is not as clear cut because District of Columbia, Maryland, and New Jersey are in Administrative Region #1. Pennsylvania and New York are in #2. Please remember that the 200-mile radius rule is also available for the sake of defining in-region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 01:24:15 PM
Post by: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 01:24:15 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on October 24, 2007, 12:13:42 PMQuote from: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 11:44:29 AM
The math in the handbook is wrong, but the results come out the same.
There are 387 schools, of which 349 (not 344) are in AQ conferences. So the access ratio is 349/38 = 9.18, not 344/37 = 9.29.
Guess what? 344 and 9.29 are in last year's handbook. They forgot to update the text on those two lines.
Anyway, with a 9.18 ratio, four bids requires 37 teams, so even if Lincoln is reallocated, as I believe they should be, there will still be a 38-4-17 split of the bids.
Other than that, I agree with the math.
The other news from the handbook is confirmation on regional allocation, where they're doing what they did with soccer already:
Colorado College stays in the West, despite joining the SCAC.
Merchant Marine stays in the Atlantic because the Landmark isn't a qualifying conference yet; they'll probably move to the Mid-Atlantic when it does.
Stevens, Bard, Manhattanville, and Centenary change regions to match their new conferences.
The new schools are allocated regions that generally make sense, with Spalding (Kentucky) being assigned to the Great Lakes and St. Joseph's (Brooklyn, NY) being assigned (illogically) to the East.
When has the NCAA been logical? In my opinion the Landmark should have been assigned to the Atlantic Region. The Atlantic loses three more schools now.
The Landmark hasn't been assigned anywhere yet. It's not recognized as a conference for the 2007-2008 academic year. So the seven schools that were in the Mid-Atlantic stay in the Mid-Atlantic, and Merchant Marine stays in the Atlantic.
The other schools move to recognized conferences, so they have to pick up the regional orientation of those conferences.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2007, 02:14:45 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2007, 02:14:45 PM
Ralph,
Glad to see you're joining my 'crusade' to move Finlandia to the West. Right now, their NEAREST in-region game (aside from Northland by the 200-mile rule) is Alma, nearly 500 miles away (and like ALL GL games, requiring a trip over the Big Mac, which often closes for hours at a time during bball season).
Of course, until they do a lot of improving, in-region is not really a relevant concept! :(
Now, if anyone can solve the UMPI situation! ;)
Glad to see you're joining my 'crusade' to move Finlandia to the West. Right now, their NEAREST in-region game (aside from Northland by the 200-mile rule) is Alma, nearly 500 miles away (and like ALL GL games, requiring a trip over the Big Mac, which often closes for hours at a time during bball season).
Of course, until they do a lot of improving, in-region is not really a relevant concept! :(
Now, if anyone can solve the UMPI situation! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on October 24, 2007, 05:24:46 PM
Post by: ChicagoHopeNut on October 24, 2007, 05:24:46 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2007, 02:14:45 PM
Ralph,
Glad to see you're joining my 'crusade' to move Finlandia to the West. Right now, their NEAREST in-region game (aside from Northland by the 200-mile rule) is Alma, nearly 500 miles away (and like ALL GL games, requiring a trip over the Big Mac, which often closes for hours at a time during bball season).
What if Finlandia took a boat through the Great Lakes to Ohio? Or down Lake Michigan to Holland (Hope)? Maybe that will make it faster and of course that is a logical choice of travel according to the NCAA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on October 24, 2007, 05:26:39 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on October 24, 2007, 05:26:39 PM
Quote from: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 01:24:15 PMQuote from: Knightstalker on October 24, 2007, 12:13:42 PMQuote from: pabegg on October 24, 2007, 11:44:29 AM
The math in the handbook is wrong, but the results come out the same.
There are 387 schools, of which 349 (not 344) are in AQ conferences. So the access ratio is 349/38 = 9.18, not 344/37 = 9.29.
Guess what? 344 and 9.29 are in last year's handbook. They forgot to update the text on those two lines.
Anyway, with a 9.18 ratio, four bids requires 37 teams, so even if Lincoln is reallocated, as I believe they should be, there will still be a 38-4-17 split of the bids.
Other than that, I agree with the math.
The other news from the handbook is confirmation on regional allocation, where they're doing what they did with soccer already:
Colorado College stays in the West, despite joining the SCAC.
Merchant Marine stays in the Atlantic because the Landmark isn't a qualifying conference yet; they'll probably move to the Mid-Atlantic when it does.
Stevens, Bard, Manhattanville, and Centenary change regions to match their new conferences.
The new schools are allocated regions that generally make sense, with Spalding (Kentucky) being assigned to the Great Lakes and St. Joseph's (Brooklyn, NY) being assigned (illogically) to the East.
When has the NCAA been logical? In my opinion the Landmark should have been assigned to the Atlantic Region. The Atlantic loses three more schools now.
The Landmark hasn't been assigned anywhere yet. It's not recognized as a conference for the 2007-2008 academic year. So the seven schools that were in the Mid-Atlantic stay in the Mid-Atlantic, and Merchant Marine stays in the Atlantic.
The other schools move to recognized conferences, so they have to pick up the regional orientation of those conferences.
I had forgotten about Stevens jumping conferences to jump conferences. But the Landmark should still be assigned to the Atlantic before the 08-09 season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on October 24, 2007, 10:23:44 PM
Post by: sac on October 24, 2007, 10:23:44 PM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on October 24, 2007, 05:24:46 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2007, 02:14:45 PM
Ralph,
Glad to see you're joining my 'crusade' to move Finlandia to the West. Right now, their NEAREST in-region game (aside from Northland by the 200-mile rule) is Alma, nearly 500 miles away (and like ALL GL games, requiring a trip over the Big Mac, which often closes for hours at a time during bball season).
What if Finlandia took a boat through the Great Lakes to Ohio? Or down Lake Michigan to Holland (Hope)? Maybe that will make it faster and of course that is a logical choice of travel according to the NCAA.
The Magic Ferry is reserved for Hope and Carthage. This year Carthage has the keys. ::)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 26, 2007, 01:36:26 PM
Post by: njlincolnlion on October 26, 2007, 01:36:26 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on October 24, 2007, 08:29:14 AM
I think Lincoln is technically still in D-III for one more year, but are not eligible for the post-season. Maybe I'm wrong here and the NCAA screwed up; it's happened before, often (on both counts).
Quote from: wilburt on October 24, 2007, 08:49:35 AM
It's unclear from Pat's daily dose what Lincoln's status is?
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/2007/07/19/lincoln-officially-gone-to-division-ii/
Wilburt & Hoops Fan:
Lincoln is basically "floating in cyberspace" relative to NCAA classification and discussions. Officially Lincoln has already begun it's probationary period for DII reclassification.
Pat has basically stated that Lincoln would not be included in any D3Hoops rankings or discussions.
I have attached a link from Lincoln's website regarding this topic.
http://www.lincoln.edu/athletics/tennis/divisionii720.html
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 06, 2008, 03:38:03 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 06, 2008, 03:38:03 PM
I am looking forward to Hoopsville tonight and the interview with Neb Wesleyan Head Coach Cam Schuknecht. Neb Wes piqued my curiosity about the Pool B bids this year.
The Handbook says that we have 4 bids this year.
By region, my first look at the prospects include:
New England Region:
Green Mountain (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/GMTN/mens/2008) IND (9-1 overall /7-1 in region)
Atlantic Region:
Moravian (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MRVN/mens/2008) LAND (9-2 /8-2)
South Region:
Maryville TN (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2008) GSAC (10-2 /7-2)
Midwest Region:
Aurora (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/AUR/mens/2008) NATHC (9-3 /7-3)
Marian (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MRIN/mens/2008) NATHC (7-4 /7-2)
West Region:
Nebraska Wesleyan (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/NWU/mens/2008) IND (8-4 /6-1)
Corrections and other contributions appreciated.
The Handbook says that we have 4 bids this year.
By region, my first look at the prospects include:
New England Region:
Green Mountain (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/GMTN/mens/2008) IND (9-1 overall /7-1 in region)
Atlantic Region:
Moravian (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MRVN/mens/2008) LAND (9-2 /8-2)
South Region:
Maryville TN (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2008) GSAC (10-2 /7-2)
Midwest Region:
Aurora (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/AUR/mens/2008) NATHC (9-3 /7-3)
Marian (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MRIN/mens/2008) NATHC (7-4 /7-2)
West Region:
Nebraska Wesleyan (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/NWU/mens/2008) IND (8-4 /6-1)
Corrections and other contributions appreciated.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2008, 07:00:44 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 06, 2008, 07:00:44 PM
Holy transfers! I can't believe Green Mountain is in the running for Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on January 09, 2008, 10:36:55 AM
Post by: Just Bill on January 09, 2008, 10:36:55 AM
Quote from: DCHopeNut on October 24, 2007, 05:24:46 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on October 24, 2007, 02:14:45 PM
Ralph,
Glad to see you're joining my 'crusade' to move Finlandia to the West. Right now, their NEAREST in-region game (aside from Northland by the 200-mile rule) is Alma, nearly 500 miles away (and like ALL GL games, requiring a trip over the Big Mac, which often closes for hours at a time during bball season).
What if Finlandia took a boat through the Great Lakes to Ohio? Or down Lake Michigan to Holland (Hope)? Maybe that will make it faster and of course that is a logical choice of travel according to the NCAA.
Look! I found a picture of the Finlandia team traveling to their next in-region game:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.artsales.com%2FAncient%2520Ships%2FCorbita_Boat.jpg&hash=ddf77f5c818e60e4fff15b48b51f4a2fd2633fc9)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 25, 2008, 12:17:36 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 25, 2008, 12:17:36 PM
I wait in vain for some of you Smart Posters Who Do Math to clue us in on the Pool B situation....
I see no reason why Maryville, TN, as usual, will not be one (although this was supposed to be a rebuilding year), but what else is going on?
I see no reason why Maryville, TN, as usual, will not be one (although this was supposed to be a rebuilding year), but what else is going on?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 25, 2008, 03:14:21 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 25, 2008, 03:14:21 PM
I need to double-check some things, but Nebraska Wesleyan has a good chance at a possible Pool B bid. Others have heard me point out the fact that they have a chance, despite their lack of D3 games.
They are 10-6 overall right now, but they are 6-1 against Division III opponents. They have also applied for - and gotten - an exemption from the NCAA, as they do every season, that despite the fact they play less than 50% of their schedule in the NCAA/West Region. They have two games in Division III left (Feb. 29th and Mar. 1 - I think)... that could put them into the Tournament as a Pool B.
They are 10-6 overall right now, but they are 6-1 against Division III opponents. They have also applied for - and gotten - an exemption from the NCAA, as they do every season, that despite the fact they play less than 50% of their schedule in the NCAA/West Region. They have two games in Division III left (Feb. 29th and Mar. 1 - I think)... that could put them into the Tournament as a Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2008, 09:09:55 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 27, 2008, 09:09:55 PM
Pool B thru January 27th (4 bids given):
Northeast Region:
Green Mountain (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/GMTN/mens/2008) IND Overall 12-3/Northeast Region 11-3. (5 in-region games remaining and the Independents Tourney.)
Atlantic Region:
Susquehanna (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/SUSQ/mens/2008) LAND 10-7 overall / 10-5 Atlantic Region / 7-0 conference. (7 in-region games remain.)
South Region:
Maryville TN (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2008) GSAC 16-2 overall/12-2 11-2* South Region/ 2-0 conference. (5 in-region games remain plus the 4-team GSAC Tourney.)
Midwest Region:
Aurora (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/AUR/mens/2008) NATHC 15-3 overall/ 13-3 Midwest Region/ 11-0 Conference. (7 in-region games remain plus the NATHC tourney)
West Region:
Neb Wesleyan (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/NWU/mens/2008) IND 10-7 overall (against NAIA-2 schools) 6-1 overall. (Only the 4-team West Region Independents Tourney left.)
Corrections appreciated! * Thanks to pabegg!
Northeast Region:
Green Mountain (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/GMTN/mens/2008) IND Overall 12-3/Northeast Region 11-3. (5 in-region games remaining and the Independents Tourney.)
Atlantic Region:
Susquehanna (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/SUSQ/mens/2008) LAND 10-7 overall / 10-5 Atlantic Region / 7-0 conference. (7 in-region games remain.)
South Region:
Maryville TN (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2008) GSAC 16-2 overall/
Midwest Region:
Aurora (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/AUR/mens/2008) NATHC 15-3 overall/ 13-3 Midwest Region/ 11-0 Conference. (7 in-region games remain plus the NATHC tourney)
West Region:
Neb Wesleyan (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/NWU/mens/2008) IND 10-7 overall (against NAIA-2 schools) 6-1 overall. (Only the 4-team West Region Independents Tourney left.)
Corrections appreciated! * Thanks to pabegg!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on January 27, 2008, 09:44:33 PM
Post by: pabegg on January 27, 2008, 09:44:33 PM
By my count, Maryville is 11-2 in region, with 4 non-D3 games and Concordia IL as a non-region game.
My list in rank order (based on my methodology that has tracked regional ranking and selection in the past)
1. Maryville (Tenn.) 16-2, 11-2
2. Nebraska Wesleyan 10-7, 6-1
3. Chapman 13-6, 10-5
4. Aurora 15-3, 13-3
5. Juniata 12-6, 11-5
6. Susquehanna 10-7, 10-5
7. Moravian 13-5, 12-5
8. Wisconsin Lutheran 12-4, 11-4
There's a huge gap between 1 and 2, and gaps down to 5th, but 5 to 8 are interchangeable.
Green Mountain is 391 out of 399 in Strength of Schedule, which really kills them. There's 10th in the numbers right now.
My list in rank order (based on my methodology that has tracked regional ranking and selection in the past)
1. Maryville (Tenn.) 16-2, 11-2
2. Nebraska Wesleyan 10-7, 6-1
3. Chapman 13-6, 10-5
4. Aurora 15-3, 13-3
5. Juniata 12-6, 11-5
6. Susquehanna 10-7, 10-5
7. Moravian 13-5, 12-5
8. Wisconsin Lutheran 12-4, 11-4
There's a huge gap between 1 and 2, and gaps down to 5th, but 5 to 8 are interchangeable.
Green Mountain is 391 out of 399 in Strength of Schedule, which really kills them. There's 10th in the numbers right now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 01, 2008, 01:15:41 PM
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 01, 2008, 01:15:41 PM
how realistic is it for Green Mountain College to get a pool B bid? Theres a decent chance they win 19-20 regular season games this year but how impressive is that really when 1 (maybe 2 if they beat castleton state) of their wins come against teams with at least .500 records, it seems like all the teams they play have 3-12 records. I saw I saw pabegg pointed out they have the 391st weakest schedule, but how heavy is that weighed? will the outcome of the independent tournament play much of a factor?
I just think it would be a shame for such a weak team to be rewarded for beating up JV teams all season.
I just think it would be a shame for such a weak team to be rewarded for beating up JV teams all season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2008, 01:33:50 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2008, 01:33:50 PM
Quote from: broke_ya_ankles on February 01, 2008, 01:15:41 PMI think that OOWP, OWP and wins versus regionally ranked teams go far in boosting one team over another. I don't see that GMC gets any boost from those. Had GMC won every in-region game, then I think that it would be hard to keep that team from getting one of the four bids. (What more can you ask from players?)
how realistic is it for Green Mountain College to get a pool B bid? Theres a decent chance they win 19-20 regular season games this year but how impressive is that really when 1 (maybe 2 if they beat castleton state) of their wins come against teams with at least .500 records, it seems like all the teams they play have 3-12 records. I saw I saw pabegg pointed out they have the 391st weakest schedule, but how heavy is that weighed? will the outcome of the independent tournament play much of a factor?
I just think it would be a shame for such a weak team to be rewarded for beating up JV teams all season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 01, 2008, 04:17:15 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 01, 2008, 04:17:15 PM
Green Mountain is 11-4 in-region, but with their strength of schedule, it's probably more like 9-6 for a normal Pool B team. That puts them behind schools like Aurora, Chapman, Juniata, and Susquehanna for the last 2 Pool Bs. (Maryville and Nebraska Wesleyan are firmly in control of the top 2 bids at the moment.)
Sure, if they win out in regional games, they probably get in. As of now, they're on the outside looking in.
Sure, if they win out in regional games, they probably get in. As of now, they're on the outside looking in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 01, 2008, 04:43:59 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 01, 2008, 04:43:59 PM
I think Green Mountain will fall short. But it's remarkable considering where they were at a few short years ago.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 01, 2008, 06:09:13 PM
Post by: broke_ya_ankles on February 01, 2008, 06:09:13 PM
I agree, very impressive for a team to be at 13-4 right now considering they went a combined 3-43 in the past 2 seasons. I know people say 1 person doesnt make a team but the addition of sr transfer doug hammond has been the reason for green mountains success. Hammond is averaging a very impressive 23.1 pts 14.9 rebs and 4.7 blocks a game likely facing double and triple teams while doing so. he did not play recently against NEC, not sure about the vermont tech game, hopefully for green mountains sake it was a fluke absence. those are staggering statistics regardless the competition if his team was losing it wouldnt be nearly as impressive but he truly is single handedly propelling them to victory and lots of them
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2008, 12:43:31 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 09, 2008, 12:43:31 PM
pabegg has listed his computer listing of Pool C bids here (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=4232.1187). However some of the schools on the Pool B radar are not showing up on the Pool C screens in his run of February 4th. (Four Pool B bids are allowed.) I have ranked them by in-region winning percentage.
Rank/ School/ Conf/ Overall/ In-Region/ Post-season Tourney-Y/N
1) Maryville GSAC 18-2 12-2 Y
2) Neb Wes Other 11-9 6-1 Y (D-III Independents Tourney-West Region)
3) Aurora NATHC 16-4 14-4 Y
4) Moravian LAND 15-5 14-5 Y
*) Grn. Mtn IND 15-4 12-4 Y (D-III Independents Tourney-Northeast Region)
*) Chapman IND 16-6 12-5 Y (D-III Independents Tourney-West Region)
*) N'west'n MN UMAC 13-7 10-4 *
Rank/ School/ Conf/ Overall/ In-Region/ Post-season Tourney-Y/N
1) Maryville GSAC 18-2 12-2 Y
2) Neb Wes Other 11-9 6-1 Y (D-III Independents Tourney-West Region)
3) Aurora NATHC 16-4 14-4 Y
4) Moravian LAND 15-5 14-5 Y
*) Grn. Mtn IND 15-4 12-4 Y (D-III Independents Tourney-Northeast Region)
*) Chapman IND 16-6 12-5 Y (D-III Independents Tourney-West Region)
*) N'west'n MN UMAC 13-7 10-4 *
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2008, 01:00:15 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 09, 2008, 01:00:15 PM
And don't forget that once the four Pool B bids are selected, those left out are grouped into the Pool C's as well. Pool C is for any team that didn't get an automatic qualifier... AND those who were not selected in the Pool B selections.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2008, 03:19:33 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2008, 03:19:33 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Regional rankings are out.
Regional rankings are out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 13, 2008, 04:38:47 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 13, 2008, 04:38:47 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 13, 2008, 03:19:33 PM
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Regional rankings are out.
Maryville is #4 in the South
Moravian is #8 in the Mid-Atlantic
Chapman and Nebraska Wesleyan are in the West, which is a little deeper than those two regions.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2008, 06:25:49 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2008, 06:25:49 PM
Moravian lost at Catholic 85-79.
Maryville TN looks strong, but the rest of Pool B got tighter.
The winners? Neb Wes and Aurora, especially.
Maryville TN looks strong, but the rest of Pool B got tighter.
The winners? Neb Wes and Aurora, especially.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 18, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 18, 2008, 01:57:50 PM
Based on the numbers that I run (see the Pool C board), here's Pool B
1. Maryville TN 15-2 in region, #30 in nation
2. Aurora 17-5 in region, #65 in nation
3. Nebraska Wesleyan 6-1 in region, #67 in nation
4. Moravian 17-6 in region, #87 in nation
------------------
5. Milwaukee Engineering 16-8 in region, #90 in nation
6. Chapman 11-6 in region, #93 in nation
7. Juniata 15-7 in region, #97 in nation
8. Wisconsin Lutheran 16-6 in region, #99 in nation
9. Scranton 14-8 in region, #103 in nation
4-8 are pretty tight, probably all within a game of each other.
Maryville has clinched a bid. Neb Wesleyan's fate is in the hands of their play in the Independent tournament. The rest of the group should be in contention down to the wire.
1. Maryville TN 15-2 in region, #30 in nation
2. Aurora 17-5 in region, #65 in nation
3. Nebraska Wesleyan 6-1 in region, #67 in nation
4. Moravian 17-6 in region, #87 in nation
------------------
5. Milwaukee Engineering 16-8 in region, #90 in nation
6. Chapman 11-6 in region, #93 in nation
7. Juniata 15-7 in region, #97 in nation
8. Wisconsin Lutheran 16-6 in region, #99 in nation
9. Scranton 14-8 in region, #103 in nation
4-8 are pretty tight, probably all within a game of each other.
Maryville has clinched a bid. Neb Wesleyan's fate is in the hands of their play in the Independent tournament. The rest of the group should be in contention down to the wire.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 02:19:25 PM
Post by: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 02:19:25 PM
I take it the dream is over for Green Mountain.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 18, 2008, 01:57:50 PMI guess #9 is so far back in that it is the third Landmark Conference team in the list.
Based on the numbers that I run (see the Pool C board), here's Pool B
1. Maryville TN 15-2 in region, #30 in nation
2. Aurora 17-5 in region, #65 in nation
3. Nebraska Wesleyan 6-1 in region, #67 in nation
4. Moravian 17-6 in region, #87 in nation
------------------
5. Milwaukee Engineering 16-8 in region, #90 in nation
6. Chapman 11-6 in region, #93 in nation
7. Juniata 15-7 in region, #97 in nation
8. Wisconsin Lutheran 16-6 in region, #99 in nation
9. Scranton 14-8 in region, #103 in nation
4-8 are pretty tight, probably all within a game of each other.
Maryville has clinched a bid. Neb Wesleyan's fate is in the hands of their play in the Independent tournament. The rest of the group should be in contention down to the wire.
Pabegg, this calculation gives some credence to the relative strengths that we see.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 05:16:24 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2008, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 02:19:25 PM
I take it the dream is over for Green Mountain.
I think the dream ended with their first d3 loss.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: buck1053 on February 21, 2008, 09:48:34 AM
Post by: buck1053 on February 21, 2008, 09:48:34 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 05:16:24 PMQuote from: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 02:19:25 PM
I take it the dream is over for Green Mountain.
I think the dream ended with their first d3 loss.
GMC actually, I think, had a shot, but a loss to Lyndon State last week probably did them in. They did beat Castelton, at Caselton this week, but probably won't be enough, even if they win the Independent tourney this weekend.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 10:09:48 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 10:09:48 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 21, 2008, 09:48:34 AMLyndon State is only Year-2 in the provisional process. The game does not affect the in-region record.Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 05:16:24 PMQuote from: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 02:19:25 PM
I take it the dream is over for Green Mountain.
I think the dream ended with their first d3 loss.
GMC actually, I think, had a shot, but a loss to Lyndon State last week probably did them in. They did beat Castelton, at Caselton this week, but probably won't be enough, even if they win the Independent tourney this weekend.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 12:53:35 PM
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 12:53:35 PM
I don't know if this was answered earlier, if it was I apologize.
Does the winner of the Western Indy tournament get one of the B bids, or is the sole purpose of tourney to give the schools a few more games so the NCAA committee can better evaluate them?
Does the winner of the Western Indy tournament get one of the B bids, or is the sole purpose of tourney to give the schools a few more games so the NCAA committee can better evaluate them?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 02:20:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 02:20:37 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 12:53:35 PMGood question, Logshow.
I don't know if this was answered earlier, if it was I apologize.
Does the winner of the Western Indy tournament get one of the B bids, or is the sole purpose of tourney to give the schools a few more games so the NCAA committee can better evaluate them?
It is the latter.
Quote...purpose of tourney to give the schools a few more games (of hopefully good quality) so the NCAA committee can better evaluate them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:05:21 PM
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:05:21 PM
Yes the key is good quality teams
Hmmm lets think of some good quality independent teams in the west......uh drawing a blank
Hmmm lets think of some good quality independent teams in the west......uh drawing a blank
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 21, 2008, 04:11:15 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 21, 2008, 04:11:15 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:05:21 PM
Yes the key is good quality teams
Hmmm lets think of some good quality independent teams in the west......uh drawing a blank
Nebraska Wesleyan.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:25:18 PM
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:25:18 PM
They were being discussed on another board, I think the D3 VS D1/D2/NAIA, because they just lost to University of Sioux Falls 39-75. 13-11 overall...that's tough to justify for a good team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 04:37:31 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 04:37:31 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:05:21 PMNeb Wesleyan, UDallas, Chapman and UC Santa Cruz are the four best (and only) teams in that Administrative Region. The schools in the UMAC don't count, as I understand it.
Yes the key is good quality teams
Hmmm lets think of some good quality independent teams in the west......uh drawing a blank
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2008, 04:49:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2008, 04:49:36 PM
Pool B is the focus of this week's Around the Nation.
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/
http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on February 21, 2008, 06:38:21 PM
Post by: gordonmann on February 21, 2008, 06:38:21 PM
Keeping with the Pool B theme...
D3hoops.com will broadcast Saturday's Scranton/Moravian doubleheader live from Johnston Hall in Bethlehem...
5:30 pm - Women: Scranton Royals versus Moravian Greyhounds
7:30 pm - Men: Scranton Royals versus Moravian Greyhounds
The broadcast will be available at www.d3hoops.com/audio starting with pregame coverage 10 minutes before tipoff.
D3hoops.com will broadcast Saturday's Scranton/Moravian doubleheader live from Johnston Hall in Bethlehem...
5:30 pm - Women: Scranton Royals versus Moravian Greyhounds
7:30 pm - Men: Scranton Royals versus Moravian Greyhounds
The broadcast will be available at www.d3hoops.com/audio starting with pregame coverage 10 minutes before tipoff.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2008, 07:22:08 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 21, 2008, 07:22:08 PM
Way to B, G ...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 07:45:48 PM
Post by: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 07:45:48 PM
No pun intended :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2008, 11:18:12 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2008, 11:18:12 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:25:18 PMLogShow... we chatted with Nebraska Wesleyan's Coach Cam Shuknecht (http://"http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/08/shuknecht010608.mp3") back in the beginning of January back on Hoopsville. We certainly chatted about this situation. You might get some of the info you are interested in.
They were being discussed on another board, I think the D3 VS D1/D2/NAIA, because they just lost to University of Sioux Falls 39-75. 13-11 overall...that's tough to justify for a good team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on February 22, 2008, 12:46:17 AM
Post by: gordonmann on February 22, 2008, 12:46:17 AM
QuoteWay to B, G ...
Hey, just doing my part to help track who is stayin' alive, stayin' alive.
Hah Hah Hah Hah stayin alive stayin alive
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 01:07:55 AM
Post by: LogShow on February 22, 2008, 01:07:55 AM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on February 21, 2008, 11:18:12 PMQuote from: LogShow on February 21, 2008, 04:25:18 PMLogShow... we chatted with Nebraska Wesleyan's Coach Cam Shuknecht (http://"http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/08/shuknecht010608.mp3") back in the beginning of January back on Hoopsville. We certainly chatted about this situation. You might get some of the info you are interested in.
They were being discussed on another board, I think the D3 VS D1/D2/NAIA, because they just lost to University of Sioux Falls 39-75. 13-11 overall...that's tough to justify for a good team.
Thanks for the link d-mac!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: buck1053 on February 22, 2008, 07:38:56 PM
Post by: buck1053 on February 22, 2008, 07:38:56 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 10:09:48 AMQuote from: buck1053 on February 21, 2008, 09:48:34 AMLyndon State is only Year-2 in the provisional process. The game does not affect the in-region record.Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 05:16:24 PMQuote from: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 02:19:25 PM
I take it the dream is over for Green Mountain.
I think the dream ended with their first d3 loss.
GMC actually, I think, had a shot, but a loss to Lyndon State last week probably did them in. They did beat Castelton, at Caselton this week, but probably won't be enough, even if they win the Independent tourney this weekend.
So, Ralph, what's your feeling on GMC's chances? They are now at 19-5 overall, with a weak schedule. If they win the Northeast Indy tourney this weekend, do they get in? Or is the weak schedule too much to overcome?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2008, 08:58:28 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 22, 2008, 08:58:28 PM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 22, 2008, 07:38:56 PMGood evening Buck, I calculate GMC's in-region record at 15-4. I think that the OWP is much too low.Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2008, 10:09:48 AMSo, Ralph, what's your feeling on GMC's chances? They are now at 19-5 overall, with a weak schedule. If they win the Northeast Indy tourney this weekend, do they get in? Or is the weak schedule too much to overcome?Quote from: buck1053 on February 21, 2008, 09:48:34 AMLyndon State is only Year-2 in the provisional process. The game does not affect the in-region record.Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 18, 2008, 05:16:24 PMGMC actually, I think, had a shot, but a loss to Lyndon State last week probably did them in. They did beat Castleton, at Castleton this week, but probably won't be enough, even if they win the Independent tourney this weekend.Quote from: smedindy on February 18, 2008, 02:19:25 PMI think the dream ended with their first d3 loss.
I take it the dream is over for Green Mountain.
Perhaps they would have gotten some consideration if they had beaten Bard, Eastern Connecticut, and Newbury to go 18-1.
I think that the committee would have had a hard time telling an independent that winning all of their in-region (practically speaking, "conference" games) wasn't enough. Is 18-1 that far off?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2008, 10:35:01 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2008, 10:35:01 PM
As we wind down in 2008, here is what we can project for Pool B in 2008-09.
New England Collegiate Conference (NECC): 8 full members-- Four teams move out of the North Atlantic Conference (Becker, Elms, Lesley and Wheelock which is adding Men's basketball) to join Daniel Webster from the GNAC and the independents Mitchell (a fourth-year provisional in 2008-09), Newbury, and Southern Vermont. At the earliest, this conference will get a Pool A in 2010-11. (The North Atlantic Conference has two years to return to 7 full members. The NEAC also loses members to various conferences and has two years to return to 7 full members.)
Landmark Conference (LAND): 8 members spend one more year in Pool B.
Great South AC (GSAC): 4 members.
Upper Midwest AC (UMAC): 7 members. This includes 3 establish members (St Scholastica, Northland and Martin Luther) and four new members coming from D-II (UMinn-Morris) and Provisional status (Bethany Lutheran, Crown and Northwestern). The UMAC should get Pool A in 2010-11.
Independents: 5 members, including Rust and UDallas (South), Chapman, UC Santa Cruz and Neb Wesleyan (West).
New independents completing provisional status in August 2008: 1 member -- UMaine-Presque Isle.
I count 33 Pool B schools. The access ratio probably means that there will be 3 Pool B bids in 2008-09. There are 8 new schools anticipated in D-III in 2008-09, which means one new bid, making the progression of the NATHC to Pool A a wash in Pool B (60 bids total).
Northern Athletics Conference (NATHC): 12 members move to Pool A in 2008-09.
I anticipate 39 Pool A bids, 3 Pool B bids and 18 Pool C bids.
Corrections are greatly appreciated.
New England Collegiate Conference (NECC): 8 full members-- Four teams move out of the North Atlantic Conference (Becker, Elms, Lesley and Wheelock which is adding Men's basketball) to join Daniel Webster from the GNAC and the independents Mitchell (a fourth-year provisional in 2008-09), Newbury, and Southern Vermont. At the earliest, this conference will get a Pool A in 2010-11. (The North Atlantic Conference has two years to return to 7 full members. The NEAC also loses members to various conferences and has two years to return to 7 full members.)
Landmark Conference (LAND): 8 members spend one more year in Pool B.
Great South AC (GSAC): 4 members.
Upper Midwest AC (UMAC): 7 members. This includes 3 establish members (St Scholastica, Northland and Martin Luther) and four new members coming from D-II (UMinn-Morris) and Provisional status (Bethany Lutheran, Crown and Northwestern). The UMAC should get Pool A in 2010-11.
Independents: 5 members, including Rust and UDallas (South), Chapman, UC Santa Cruz and Neb Wesleyan (West).
New independents completing provisional status in August 2008: 1 member -- UMaine-Presque Isle.
I count 33 Pool B schools. The access ratio probably means that there will be 3 Pool B bids in 2008-09. There are 8 new schools anticipated in D-III in 2008-09, which means one new bid, making the progression of the NATHC to Pool A a wash in Pool B (60 bids total).
Northern Athletics Conference (NATHC): 12 members move to Pool A in 2008-09.
I anticipate 39 Pool A bids, 3 Pool B bids and 18 Pool C bids.
Corrections are greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: buck1053 on February 23, 2008, 11:20:47 PM
Post by: buck1053 on February 23, 2008, 11:20:47 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2008, 10:35:01 PM
(The North Atlantic Conference has two years to return to 7 full members. The NEAC also loses members to various conferences and has two years to return to 7 full members.)
Corrections are greatly appreciated.
Ralph,
Thanks for the response to my previous question, not really sure how DIII selections of the at-large variety work, so a quick analysis like the one you gave helps. If I knew how to give karma (though I don't know if I've been a member long enough to do so).
Anyway, as far as the NAC, I know Green Mountain will be a member next year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: newenglandball on February 24, 2008, 05:54:13 PM
Post by: newenglandball on February 24, 2008, 05:54:13 PM
lyndon state will also bein the NAC.. rumor has is that UMPI (presque isle) will be applying to the NAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2008, 10:08:37 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 24, 2008, 10:08:37 PM
Quote from: newenglandball on February 24, 2008, 05:54:13 PM
lyndon state will also bein the NAC.. rumor has is that UMPI (presque isle) will be applying to the NAC.
Better up the budget for gas; that or by some hybrid buses.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2008, 10:13:48 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2008, 10:13:48 PM
Hoops Fan - basketball is usually played in the winter... so the snowmobiles should work out!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2008, 10:23:12 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 24, 2008, 10:23:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2008, 10:08:37 PMThe travel costs to UMPI are the value of an AQ to the NAC!Quote from: newenglandball on February 24, 2008, 05:54:13 PMBetter up the budget for gas; that or by some hybrid buses.
lyndon state will also bein the NAC.. rumor has is that UMPI (presque isle) will be applying to the NAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2008, 05:04:02 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2008, 05:04:02 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2008, 10:08:37 PMQuote from: newenglandball on February 24, 2008, 05:54:13 PM
lyndon state will also bein the NAC.. rumor has is that UMPI (presque isle) will be applying to the NAC.
Better up the budget for gas; that or by some hybrid buses.
Or sled dogs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: newenglandball on February 25, 2008, 10:06:46 AM
Post by: newenglandball on February 25, 2008, 10:06:46 AM
i agree the only way the NAC might be able to keep their AQ is to take UMPI. They are futher along in the provisional status then Lyndon State so it makes more sense. the last thing the NAC needs is if Lyndon state has to repeat a year then the NAC would lose their AQ. Unless the NAC is going to try to steal another Maine school or VT school and court them to the NAC. (UNE, NEC, Norwich would all fit nice geographically in this league..... this is just me rambling i have no way of knowing at all how the NAC is going to get enough schools to have an AQ. just some thoughts to get some discussions)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2008, 10:20:35 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 25, 2008, 10:20:35 AM
Six months ago I would have said the NAC could have a good chance at UNE, but they've improved immensely this year and seem to be holding their own in the CCC.
There still may be some poaching to be done, but we should have pity on UMPI. It's not their fault a bunch of Canadians decided to settle a town in Maine so far north.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 25, 2008, 10:21:46 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 25, 2008, 10:21:46 AM
Well, if they do take UMPI they need to be sure that UMPI can still schedule Unity and Maine - Machias.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on February 25, 2008, 11:25:19 AM
Post by: John Gleich on February 25, 2008, 11:25:19 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 25, 2008, 05:04:02 AMQuote from: Hoops Fan on February 24, 2008, 10:08:37 PMQuote from: newenglandball on February 24, 2008, 05:54:13 PM
lyndon state will also bein the NAC.. rumor has is that UMPI (presque isle) will be applying to the NAC.
Better up the budget for gas; that or by some hybrid buses.
Or sled dogs.
Gives new meaning to "warming up" for a game...!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2008, 12:40:49 PM
Post by: LogShow on February 25, 2008, 12:40:49 PM
yeah like defrosting
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on February 25, 2008, 10:05:56 PM
Post by: elfinley on February 25, 2008, 10:05:56 PM
What is everyones opinion on the independents in the west region?
They play their post season tournament this weekend. Nebraska seems to be the front runner, but record wise and with their OWP and OOWP, Chapman appears to be the best team out of the group and maybe one of the best indy's around.
CU beat Dallas and has handled Santa Cruz twice this year.
So what do you think? Chapman? Nebraska? or is Dallas in the running? The slugs are clearly out of it.
They play their post season tournament this weekend. Nebraska seems to be the front runner, but record wise and with their OWP and OOWP, Chapman appears to be the best team out of the group and maybe one of the best indy's around.
CU beat Dallas and has handled Santa Cruz twice this year.
So what do you think? Chapman? Nebraska? or is Dallas in the running? The slugs are clearly out of it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2008, 10:11:14 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2008, 10:11:14 PM
If Chapman or Nebraska Wesleyan wins the tournament, they clinch a Pool B bid.
Depending on what happens in the Landmark, they could both make it as long as the only loss is to the other one.
Depending on what happens in the Landmark, they could both make it as long as the only loss is to the other one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 07:52:43 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 07:52:43 AM
It's show time for Pool B.
Maryville (16-2) and Aurora (19-5) have clinched Pool B spots.
Nebraska Wesleyan can clinch a bid by sweeping the Independents Tournament Friday and Saturday (they start with UCSC, 1-14 in region). If they lose to Chapman on Saturday, Chapman will probably be ranked ahead of them.
Scranton (15-8) and Moravian (17-7) are the top 2 contenders from the Landmark. Scranton is ahead due to a much stronger strength of schedule. They meet in the Landmark SF Wednesday, so the loser is probably done. Juniata (15-8) is behind them (strength of schedule in between Scranton and Moravian) and plays non-contender Susquehanna in the other SF. The Landmark champion, assuming it's not Susquehanna, will be in contention.
Milwaukee Engineering (17-9) and Marian (15-8 but much weaker strength of schedule) are the other contenders from the Northern, after Aurora. Milwaukee Engineering faces Aurora in the SF on Thursday and Marian faces non-contender Lakeland. If Milwaukee Engineering wins the tournament, they're in contention, while I'm not sure that even going 2-0 is enough to lift Marian into contention.
So the Pool B selection group will probably be (after Maryville and Aurora):
Nebraska Wesleyan
Chapman
Landmark champion
Milwaukee Engineering
Landmark runner-up, possibly
Two of these will make it.
Maryville (16-2) and Aurora (19-5) have clinched Pool B spots.
Nebraska Wesleyan can clinch a bid by sweeping the Independents Tournament Friday and Saturday (they start with UCSC, 1-14 in region). If they lose to Chapman on Saturday, Chapman will probably be ranked ahead of them.
Scranton (15-8) and Moravian (17-7) are the top 2 contenders from the Landmark. Scranton is ahead due to a much stronger strength of schedule. They meet in the Landmark SF Wednesday, so the loser is probably done. Juniata (15-8) is behind them (strength of schedule in between Scranton and Moravian) and plays non-contender Susquehanna in the other SF. The Landmark champion, assuming it's not Susquehanna, will be in contention.
Milwaukee Engineering (17-9) and Marian (15-8 but much weaker strength of schedule) are the other contenders from the Northern, after Aurora. Milwaukee Engineering faces Aurora in the SF on Thursday and Marian faces non-contender Lakeland. If Milwaukee Engineering wins the tournament, they're in contention, while I'm not sure that even going 2-0 is enough to lift Marian into contention.
So the Pool B selection group will probably be (after Maryville and Aurora):
Nebraska Wesleyan
Chapman
Landmark champion
Milwaukee Engineering
Landmark runner-up, possibly
Two of these will make it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2008, 07:58:49 AM
Post by: buck1053 on February 27, 2008, 07:58:49 AM
Quote from: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 07:52:43 AM
It's show time for Pool B.
Maryville (16-2) and Aurora (19-5) have clinched Pool B spots.
Nebraska Wesleyan can clinch a bid by sweeping the Independents Tournament Friday and Saturday (they start with UCSC, 1-14 in region). If they lose to Chapman on Saturday, Chapman will probably be ranked ahead of them.
Scranton (15-8) and Moravian (17-7) are the top 2 contenders from the Landmark. Scranton is ahead due to a much stronger strength of schedule. They meet in the Landmark SF Wednesday, so the loser is probably done. Juniata (15-8) is behind them (strength of schedule in between Scranton and Moravian) and plays non-contender Susquehanna in the other SF. The Landmark champion, assuming it's not Susquehanna, will be in contention.
Milwaukee Engineering (17-9) and Marian (15-8 but much weaker strength of schedule) are the other contenders from the Northern, after Aurora. Milwaukee Engineering faces Aurora in the SF on Thursday and Marian faces non-contender Lakeland. If Milwaukee Engineering wins the tournament, they're in contention, while I'm not sure that even going 2-0 is enough to lift Marian into contention.
So the Pool B selection group will probably be (after Maryville and Aurora):
Nebraska Wesleyan
Chapman
Landmark champion
Milwaukee Engineering
Landmark runner-up, possibly
Two of these will make it.
The thing that sucks about Neb Wesleyan is the fact they're regional record is only 6-1. How many games do they play against NCAA Div. III teams? Just curious, because it seems like just about every other school plays at least 15 in-region games. I don't know much about the western independents, so please enlighten me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 08:30:20 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 08:30:20 AM
Quote from: buck1053 on February 27, 2008, 07:58:49 AM
The thing that sucks about Neb Wesleyan is the fact they're regional record is only 6-1. How many games do they play against NCAA Div. III teams? Just curious, because it seems like just about every other school plays at least 15 in-region games. I don't know much about the western independents, so please enlighten me.
7 games against D3, as they are all regional. They've played some bad teams from good conferences (horrible OWP, good OOWP). (Austin, Concordia-Moorhead, La Verne, Redlands, Simpson, St. Mary's (Minn.), University of Dallas)
Nebraska Wesleyan plays in a conference where all of the other schools are NAIA, because they aren't any other D3 schools in their part of the country. So the vast majority of their schedule doesn't count for tournament selection purposes.
By comparison, Scranton is 5-2 out of conference, Moravian is 8-2, Juniata is 6-3, Milwaukee Engineering is 5-2, Aurora is 2-3, and Chapman is 10-5 (all regional games). So NWU's non-conference record certainly doesn't look bad by comparison.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2008, 08:53:01 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2008, 08:53:01 AM
pabegg, in the last football season, (2007), the Northwest Conference champion, Whitworth, went 8-2 overall, 6-0 in conference and 8-1 in-region. However, they did not have the "numbers" to get a Pool C bid, when they did not get a Pool B bid.
Roughly speaking, please look at your numbers to see where the "5th" Pool B bid falls when the dust settles and all bids have been awarded.
(I personally thought that Whitworth should have earned a Pool C bid as a "Pool B", using the "less-mathematical" criteria and "committee" judgments for my arguments. Let's see what type of case the 5th Pool B bid can make.)
Roughly speaking, please look at your numbers to see where the "5th" Pool B bid falls when the dust settles and all bids have been awarded.
(I personally thought that Whitworth should have earned a Pool C bid as a "Pool B", using the "less-mathematical" criteria and "committee" judgments for my arguments. Let's see what type of case the 5th Pool B bid can make.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 10:09:11 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 10:09:11 AM
At the moment, the 5th Pool B would get something around the 54th Pool C.
Except for Maryville and Aurora, no one in Pool B is having an outstanding year (and by Maryville's standards, theirs is just average). The Landmark and Northern schools (below Aurora) have just been beating up on each other.
Pool B is so much weaker in basketball than in football, so the problems that football has don't seem to carry over.
Except for Maryville and Aurora, no one in Pool B is having an outstanding year (and by Maryville's standards, theirs is just average). The Landmark and Northern schools (below Aurora) have just been beating up on each other.
Pool B is so much weaker in basketball than in football, so the problems that football has don't seem to carry over.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 11:01:19 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 11:01:19 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 27, 2008, 07:52:43 AMScranton and Juniata win tonight, will meet in the Landmark final. This makes it almost certain that the Landmark champion will get a bid; we'll see about the runner-up.
It's show time for Pool B.
Maryville (16-2) and Aurora (19-5) have clinched Pool B spots.
Nebraska Wesleyan can clinch a bid by sweeping the Independents Tournament Friday and Saturday (they start with UCSC, 1-14 in region). If they lose to Chapman on Saturday, Chapman will probably be ranked ahead of them.
Scranton (15-8) and Moravian (17-7) are the top 2 contenders from the Landmark. Scranton is ahead due to a much stronger strength of schedule. They meet in the Landmark SF Wednesday, so the loser is probably done. Juniata (15-8) is behind them (strength of schedule in between Scranton and Moravian) and plays non-contender Susquehanna in the other SF. The Landmark champion, assuming it's not Susquehanna, will be in contention.
Milwaukee Engineering (17-9) and Marian (15-8 but much weaker strength of schedule) are the other contenders from the Northern, after Aurora. Milwaukee Engineering faces Aurora in the SF on Thursday and Marian faces non-contender Lakeland. If Milwaukee Engineering wins the tournament, they're in contention, while I'm not sure that even going 2-0 is enough to lift Marian into contention.
So the Pool B selection group will probably be (after Maryville and Aurora):
Nebraska Wesleyan
Chapman
Landmark champion
Milwaukee Engineering
Landmark runner-up, possibly
Two of these will make it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2008, 11:59:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2008, 11:59:26 PM
In a sense of fairness, it looks like NebWes and Chapman will be playing for a bid and Scranton and Juniata for a bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:16:42 AM
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:16:42 AM
You think Chapman can get a bid if they do well in their indy tournament?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 12:30:10 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 12:30:10 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:16:42 AMYes, because they pick up 2 more in-region wins. UDallas is 8-9 in-region. NebWes will be 7-1.
You think Chapman can get a bid if they do well in their indy tournament?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:37:18 AM
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:37:18 AM
Pool B is mighty watered down. They are like the low mid-majors of D1. Not saying all of them are, but there are more then a few
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 12:44:16 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 12:44:16 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:37:18 AMWell the NATHC gets a Pool A next year. The Landmark gets one in 2010.
Pool B is mighty watered down. They are like the low mid-majors of D1. Not saying all of them are, but there are more then a few
By 2011, I think that we are down to one Pool B bid for about 12-15 teams.
Chapman actually serves a useful function.
They can play at Cal Lutheran and the winner goes to Oxy, or the NWC Pool A comes down to southern California and makes a four team bracket.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:48:31 AM
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:48:31 AM
Hmmm 1 bid is slim pickings, but I think I would still like my chances 1 out of 12, if I had a decent team. Atleast Dallas won't be making the tournament with a losing record anymore.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2008, 12:50:55 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2008, 12:50:55 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2008, 11:59:26 PMMilwaukee Engineering could still get in over Chapman if both win their tournaments.
In a sense of fairness, it looks like NebWes and Chapman will be playing for a bid and Scranton and Juniata for a bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
Is that a joke or does Milwaukee Engineering really have a basketball team
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2008, 01:03:47 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2008, 01:03:47 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
Is that a joke or does Milwaukee Engineering really have a basketball team
MSOE is indeed a very respectable (not great, but respectable) basketball school.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2008, 01:08:16 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2008, 01:08:16 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
Is that a joke or does Milwaukee Engineering really have a basketball team
Yes they do, part of the Northern Athletic Conference, historically pretty mediocre, but having an good year this year; with two more wins they'll be 18-9.
They may be the 90th best team in D3, and there are a few conferences that won't have anyone crack the top 100, so they wouldn't be the last seed in the tournament if they make it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:10:02 AM
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:10:02 AM
I only asked because often those schools have a poor team. Take for instance MSOE's older, less respectable, easternward, cousin, New Jersey Institute of Technology, who finished finished up the season 0-29.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2008, 01:31:22 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2008, 01:31:22 AM
Understood. The various "Pharmacy" schools have been a perennial butt of jokes, figuring if they ever win a game, they must have slipped something into the other team's water! But MSOE is real and legit.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2008, 01:45:23 AM
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2008, 01:45:23 AM
It's a good thing LogShow wasn't around when Savannah College of Art and Design was kicking tail in the Pool B world. The cognitive dissonance would have caused his head to explode. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on February 28, 2008, 03:38:08 AM
Post by: sac on February 28, 2008, 03:38:08 AM
I seem to remember most of the early Pool B's getting in the tournament and promtly exiting with 45 point losses.
.......or maybe thats just how I want to remember them. But it would seem to me the Pool B's of today are much "better" than the Pool B's of the early tournaments with the pool system.
.......or maybe thats just how I want to remember them. But it would seem to me the Pool B's of today are much "better" than the Pool B's of the early tournaments with the pool system.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 08:40:02 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 08:40:02 AM
Quote from: sac on February 28, 2008, 03:38:08 AMWiliams 121, Cazenovia 49 (http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/02/pairings.htm)
I seem to remember most of the early Pool B's getting in the tournament and promtly exiting with 45 point losses.
.......or maybe thats just how I want to remember them. But it would seem to me the Pool B's of today are much "better" than the Pool B's of the early tournaments with the pool system.
Actually it may be both. As the independents have moved into conferences, and conferences have merged to form Pool A conferences, the only remaining independents are the geographic orphans (Neb Wes and Chapman). Pool B is also the temporary home of the conferences in transition (Landmark and Northern Athletics).
In other sports, the Pool B's are pretty tough. In baseball, your Pool B's are primarily well-recognized conferences that do not have the requisite 7 members playing baseball to earn the Pool B.
Chapman, a baseball World Series contender, is a perennial. The other 2007 Pool B's (http://www.titans.uwosh.edu/NCAAChampionship/2007/regionals/participants.html) were from the UAA, the Capital AC and the Empire 8.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on February 28, 2008, 10:06:51 AM
Post by: Knightstalker on February 28, 2008, 10:06:51 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:10:02 AM
I only asked because often those schools have a poor team. Take for instance MSOE's older, less respectable, easternward, cousin, New Jersey Institute of Technology, who finished finished up the season 0-29.
It is also either the first or second year in D-I for the basketball program. They had to move to D-I due the the D-I status of their soccer and volleyball programs. They were not grandfathered out of the "All sports must be the same division rule". They were a very good D-III program about 10 years ago, and then were also a respectable D-II program. Give them a chance and they will improve.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 10:17:37 AM
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 10:17:37 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 28, 2008, 01:45:23 AM
It's a good thing LogShow wasn't around when Savannah College of Art and Design was kicking tail in the Pool B world. The cognitive dissonance would have caused his head to explode. :D
lol...no I can appreciate it those facts. I was just making light of the situation, refering to the generalization that those "tech schools" are no good. In fact, there is an NAIA 1 school out here in the west called Oregon Institute Technology. And they have a great hoops team.
I only brought up NJIT because they were mentioned on sportscenter.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on February 28, 2008, 11:05:54 AM
Post by: smedindy on February 28, 2008, 11:05:54 AM
NJIT will no doubt have to try to convince the American East or Northeast conference that they're worthy. Perhaps the Patriot League?
Anyway, it seems that in hoops (and football) B's are dwindling.
Anyway, it seems that in hoops (and football) B's are dwindling.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2008, 11:09:43 AM
Post by: David Collinge on February 28, 2008, 11:09:43 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 08:40:02 AM[...] the only remaining independents are the geographic orphans (Neb Wes and Chapman). [...]
Check your maps; Chapman is not a geographic orphan. Look for another reason why they are independent.
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 10:17:37 AMI was just making light of the situation, refering to the generalization that those "tech schools" are no good.
Like Georgia Institute of Technology, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, and Texas Tech University?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: from downtown on February 28, 2008, 12:25:36 PM
Post by: from downtown on February 28, 2008, 12:25:36 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
Is that a joke or does Milwaukee Engineering really have a basketball team
Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!
Historically mediocre is a nice way of putting it. The last 3 years have been the best three records in school history. There has only been an on-campus facility for 4 years now:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa186%2Fsheetsforcyyoung%2FPictureofKern.jpg&hash=dd3bc8a7b7529aa8abe40049216219586e67af57)
The technical school obviously limits who you can recruit (though we have a nice business school too) and our women's teams are unlikely to ever become powerhouses, but it can help at times too; for example, Austin Meier who chose MSOE over division 2 offers because of academic reasons. http://wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/article.asp?nid=14197&sportID=1 (http://wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/article.asp?nid=14197&sportID=1)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:42:21 PM
Post by: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:42:21 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 28, 2008, 11:09:43 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2008, 08:40:02 AM[...] the only remaining independents are the geographic orphans (Neb Wes and Chapman). [...]
Check your maps; Chapman is not a geographic orphan. Look for another reason why they are independent.
It would make sense for them to join the SCIAC...but don't think the SCIAC will have them.
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 10:17:37 AMI was just making light of the situation, refering to the generalization that those "tech schools" are no good.
Like Georgia Institute of Technology, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, and Texas Tech University?
[/quote]
Obviously there are exceptions, because that is exactly what an over generalization means...applying a term that only applies to only a few (ie. Cal Tech) to everyone of that particular group (all Tech schools).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on February 28, 2008, 01:16:00 PM
Post by: Just Bill on February 28, 2008, 01:16:00 PM
Quote from: from downtown on February 28, 2008, 12:25:36 PMMSOE's Kern Center is a top notch facility for Division III. A real hidden gem:Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
Is that a joke or does Milwaukee Engineering really have a basketball team
http://www.msoe.edu/academics/outstanding_facilities/kerncenter/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 28, 2008, 02:45:52 PM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on February 28, 2008, 02:45:52 PM
Quote from: from downtown on February 28, 2008, 12:25:36 PMQuote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
Is that a joke or does Milwaukee Engineering really have a basketball team
Yup, we've got uniforms and everything, it's really great!
Historically mediocre is a nice way of putting it. The last 3 years have been the best three records in school history. There has only been an on-campus facility for 4 years now:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa186%2Fsheetsforcyyoung%2FPictureofKern.jpg&hash=dd3bc8a7b7529aa8abe40049216219586e67af57)
The technical school obviously limits who you can recruit (though we have a nice business school too) and our women's teams are unlikely to ever become powerhouses, but it can help at times too; for example, Austin Meier who chose MSOE over division 2 offers because of academic reasons. http://wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/article.asp?nid=14197&sportID=1 (http://wissports.net/sports/hoopsb/article.asp?nid=14197&sportID=1)
If I could I would give you karma for using a quote from a movie filmed in milwaukee when you were talking about milwaukee.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2008, 03:41:06 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2008, 03:41:06 PM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 12:48:31 AM
Hmmm 1 bid is slim pickings, but I think I would still like my chances 1 out of 12, if I had a decent team. Atleast Dallas won't be making the tournament with a losing record anymore.
Dallas never did.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2008, 10:31:12 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2008, 10:31:12 PM
Pool B update for Thursday night.
Aurora and Lakeland win their Northern SFs, which is terrrific news for all other Pool B contenders, finishing off Milwaukee Engineering and Marian. The conference final should have no Pool B implications as Lakeland is too far out to qualify and Aurora is already in.
So the Pool B selection group will probably be (after Maryville and Aurora):
Nebraska Wesleyan
Chapman
Landmark champion
Landmark runner-up
Two of these will make it. I would bet on the winners of the two tournaments making it (assuming that the Ind final is Chapman-Nebraska Wesleyan; if UCSC or Dallas wins, the second Landmark probably takes it).
Aurora and Lakeland win their Northern SFs, which is terrrific news for all other Pool B contenders, finishing off Milwaukee Engineering and Marian. The conference final should have no Pool B implications as Lakeland is too far out to qualify and Aurora is already in.
So the Pool B selection group will probably be (after Maryville and Aurora):
Nebraska Wesleyan
Chapman
Landmark champion
Landmark runner-up
Two of these will make it. I would bet on the winners of the two tournaments making it (assuming that the Ind final is Chapman-Nebraska Wesleyan; if UCSC or Dallas wins, the second Landmark probably takes it).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2008, 05:48:08 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2008, 05:48:08 AM
Quote from: LogShow on February 28, 2008, 01:10:02 AM
I only asked because often those schools have a poor team. Take for instance MSOE's older, less respectable, easternward, cousin, New Jersey Institute of Technology, who finished finished up the season 0-29.
Apples and oranges. To build upon what Knightstalker posted, New Jersey Tech is a newly-minted D1 program; this was only the second year that NJIT has competed on that level. The Highlanders were a much more successful program when they were on the small-college level. They won 20 or more games six times in the '80s, and went to the D3 tournament five times in the '90s (making it as far as the Elite Eight in '95). NJIT didn't have as much success on the hardwood after the school moved to D2 for the 1997-98 season, but the Highlanders still managed to notch a 17-win season and an 18-win season in their nine years on that level.
It's not fair to compare NJIT to MSOE.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2008, 06:00:13 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 29, 2008, 06:00:13 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 28, 2008, 01:45:23 AM
It's a good thing LogShow wasn't around when Savannah College of Art and Design was kicking tail in the Pool B world. The cognitive dissonance would have caused his head to explode. :D
I still check up on SCAD from time to time. The Bees (who were the most appropriately-nicknamed team in D3 when they were a prime subject of the predecessor version of this particular room) have not fared well since abandoning D3 and moving to the NAIA and the Florida Sun Conference for the 2004-05 school year. In those four seasons, the Bees have never managed to finish with a .500 record.
Cazzie Russell is still running the show there, though, and I would imagine that he still has the gentlemanly demeanor and the towel draped over his shoulder.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: mattgrubb on February 29, 2008, 05:19:17 PM
Post by: mattgrubb on February 29, 2008, 05:19:17 PM
scad did well in D3 b/c they were giving questionable scholarships, so if you base their D3 success based on the fact they were giving athletic scholarships, i would say that gives them an unfair advantage. Now that everyone they play gives scholarships, i think their true colors are showing.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 29, 2008, 05:51:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 29, 2008, 05:51:36 PM
Matt:
There was no evidence of any basketball improprieties. It was the baseball program that was being investigated when SCAD voluntarily left the NCAA.
There was no evidence of any basketball improprieties. It was the baseball program that was being investigated when SCAD voluntarily left the NCAA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 29, 2008, 11:34:08 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 29, 2008, 11:34:08 PM
Wow. Nebraska Wesleyan goes down to UCSC.
They're done.
The last Pool B bid will be Chapman or the Landmark runner-up.
They're done.
The last Pool B bid will be Chapman or the Landmark runner-up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2008, 12:29:09 AM
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2008, 12:29:09 AM
West Region Independent Scores:
UC Santa Cruz 79, Nebraska Wesleyan 72.
Chapman 84, U of Dallas 54.
NWU v. U of Dallas @5pm
Chapman v. UCSC @7pm
Any comments on the scores and how each team is affected?
UC Santa Cruz 79, Nebraska Wesleyan 72.
Chapman 84, U of Dallas 54.
NWU v. U of Dallas @5pm
Chapman v. UCSC @7pm
Any comments on the scores and how each team is affected?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2008, 12:52:18 AM
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2008, 12:52:18 AM
Correction:
UCSC 68, Nebraska Wesleyan 62.
Sorry for the mixup.
I heard that Occidental and Cal Lu lost first round games tonight. Pomona Pitzer and Claremont will play in the championship tomorrow. Those are teams Chapman has beaten this year. How does that help/hurt them in the selection process?
UCSC 68, Nebraska Wesleyan 62.
Sorry for the mixup.
I heard that Occidental and Cal Lu lost first round games tonight. Pomona Pitzer and Claremont will play in the championship tomorrow. Those are teams Chapman has beaten this year. How does that help/hurt them in the selection process?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2008, 01:04:22 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2008, 01:04:22 AM
Quote from: elfinley on March 01, 2008, 12:29:09 AM
West Region Independent Scores:
UC Santa Cruz 79, Nebraska Wesleyan 72.
Chapman 84, U of Dallas 54.
NWU v. U of Dallas @5pm
Chapman v. UCSC @7pm
Any comments on the scores and how each team is affected?
Yeah, I have three:
1. Chapman must be mighty ticked. The Panthers have by no means locked up a Pool B bid, so I'm sure that they were counting on the OWP boost that they would've gotten from playing (and beating) NebWes on Saturday night. Now they have to face the Banana Slugs instead -- a game that will actually put a dent in the OWP of the Panthers, even though it'll be another regional win for them.
2. If I'm the Banana Slugs, this makes my season. Tonight's win over NebWes ended an 18-game losing streak, boosts the UCSC record to 3-22 for the season, and it represents a win over a team that, unlike Caltech and West Coast Baptist, has actually enjoyed a modicum of respect over the years.
3. Losing to the Banana Slugs is completely unacceptable, especially with a tournament bid on the line. If I'm NWU head coach Cam Schuknecht, I make my guys walk home to Lincoln from southern California.
Quote from: elfinley on March 01, 2008, 12:52:18 AM
Correction:
UCSC 68, Nebraska Wesleyan 62.
Sorry for the mixup.
I heard that Occidental and Cal Lu lost first round games tonight. Pomona Pitzer and Claremont will play in the championship tomorrow. Those are teams Chapman has beaten this year. How does that help/hurt them in the selection process?
Neither PP nor CMS will be regionally ranked in that final secret ranking that the committee does on Selection Monday, so tonight's developments won't really help Chapman as far as the Sagehens and Stags are concerned. If Cal Lutheran drops out of the West Region rankings it won't affect Chapman's status, either, since the Panthers split with Cal Lu. Oxy won't drop out of the rankings, so there will be no change in ranking status of the Tigers that would affect Chapman.
I could be missing something, and if I am pabegg will catch it, but I don't see Chapman being affected one way or the other by the dual SCIAC upsets this evening.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2008, 01:06:49 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2008, 01:06:49 AM
Chapman lost to Oxy and split with Cal Lutheran.
They beat CMS and split with Pomona.
The best case for Chapman may be for CMS to win the tourney and end up in the regional ranking.
As for who might host a pod, I don't know.
We don't know how the ASC will end. UMHB might be shipped to a bracket in Millsaps, or HSU, HPU or Concordia-TX might be flown to southern California as a Pool A.
Miss College's first round departure in the ASC tourney really hurt the chances for UMHB to host a bracket, unless the NCAA wants to fly three teams to Texas, or Trinity TX earns a bid.
They beat CMS and split with Pomona.
The best case for Chapman may be for CMS to win the tourney and end up in the regional ranking.
As for who might host a pod, I don't know.
We don't know how the ASC will end. UMHB might be shipped to a bracket in Millsaps, or HSU, HPU or Concordia-TX might be flown to southern California as a Pool A.
Miss College's first round departure in the ASC tourney really hurt the chances for UMHB to host a bracket, unless the NCAA wants to fly three teams to Texas, or Trinity TX earns a bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2008, 01:23:52 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2008, 01:23:52 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2008, 01:06:49 AM
The best case for Chapman may be for CMS to win the tourney and end up in the regional ranking.
If CMS beats archrival PP tomorrow night and wins the SCIAC Pool A bid, the Stags will still only be 13-8 in region. That's nowhere near close enough to get them into the regional ranking, even in light of the chaos in the West Region this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on March 02, 2008, 01:01:40 AM
Post by: elfinley on March 02, 2008, 01:01:40 AM
West Region Independent scores:
Neb. Wesleyan beats Dallas 63-54(Could be wrong on these!!)
Chapman beats Santa Cruz 75-50
Neb. Wesleyan beats Dallas 63-54(Could be wrong on these!!)
Chapman beats Santa Cruz 75-50
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on March 02, 2008, 08:48:39 AM
Post by: pabegg on March 02, 2008, 08:48:39 AM
I think Chapman gets the last Pool B, joining clear Pool B teams Maryville, Aurora, and Scranton.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2008, 02:40:30 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 02, 2008, 02:40:30 PM
Quote from: pabegg on March 02, 2008, 08:48:39 AM
I think Chapman gets the last Pool B, joining clear Pool B teams Maryville, Aurora, and Scranton.
I thought there were only 3 pool B bids this year?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2008, 02:50:12 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2008, 02:50:12 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2008, 02:40:30 PMWomen only have three Pool B bids.Quote from: pabegg on March 02, 2008, 08:48:39 AM
I think Chapman gets the last Pool B, joining clear Pool B teams Maryville, Aurora, and Scranton.
I thought there were only 3 pool B bids this year?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2008, 03:44:27 PM
Post by: LogShow on March 02, 2008, 03:44:27 PM
UC Santa Cruz, playing the role of spoilier...and gaining a legit win to boot!
Have to give credit where credit's due. UCSC could have just mailed it in after losing 18 straight games, but they came out and beat Neb Wes...nice work
Have to give credit where credit's due. UCSC could have just mailed it in after losing 18 straight games, but they came out and beat Neb Wes...nice work
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 07, 2008, 09:35:05 AM
Post by: smedindy on March 07, 2008, 09:35:05 AM
Losing to John Jay at home? That's a bumble...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2008, 10:41:47 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2008, 10:41:47 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 07, 2008, 09:35:05 AMof bumblical proportions! :D
Losing to John Jay at home? That's a bumble...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 11:07:35 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 11:07:35 AM
Yeah, but I'd pin this on the committee.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2008, 05:14:04 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2008, 05:14:04 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 11:07:35 AM
Yeah, but I'd pin this on the committee.
True, but can you honestly say you would have expected Moravian to be that bad?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2008, 01:15:21 AM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2008, 01:15:21 AM
- in the Sweet 16.)The Killer B's are out.
Aurora: LOST to Augustana 72-61 in 1st Rd.
Scranton: LOST to Elms 71-53 in 1st Rd.
Moravian: LOST to John Jay 80-74 in 1st Rd.
Maryville (TN): LOST to Millsaps 80-72 in 1st Rd.
EDIT: For follow-up results...
Augustana lost to Champion Washington StLouis in OT (70-67) in the 2nd round.
Elms lost to Gettysburg 66-65 in the 2nd round. (Gettysburg lost to Ursinus in the Sweet 16, 79-55).
John Jay lost at (finalist) Amherst 96-74 in the 2nd round.
Maryville lost at (Elite 8 ) Millsaps 80-72 in the first round. Millsaps lost at WashU in the Elite 8.
EDIT: For follow-up results...
Augustana lost to Champion Washington StLouis in OT (70-67) in the 2nd round.
Elms lost to Gettysburg 66-65 in the 2nd round. (Gettysburg lost to Ursinus in the Sweet 16, 79-55).
John Jay lost at (finalist) Amherst 96-74 in the 2nd round.
Maryville lost at (Elite 8 ) Millsaps 80-72 in the first round. Millsaps lost at WashU in the Elite 8.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2008, 08:03:22 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2008, 08:03:22 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2008, 05:14:04 PMExactly that bad? I am not for sure!Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 11:07:35 AMTrue, but can you honestly say you would have expected Moravian to be that bad?
Yeah, but I'd pin this on the committee.
However, having followed the B's for the decade that the Pools have been around, I judged that Chapman was a better choice for the #3 Pool B bid. I was willing to concede the 4th Pool B bid to a Landmark team as being the best Pool B out of all of the East Coast Pool B contenders, i.e.., Green Mountain, Landmark Conference, etc.
I thought that Maryville versus the "hosting #2 seed Millsaps" and Aurora against the "hosting #1 seed Augie" gave representative challenges.
IMHO, Chapman was definitely "disserviced" by the committee this year.
(The 1999- 2000 McMurry team that finished #6 in the polls and went to Calvin and the Elite 8 was a Pool B selection.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on March 08, 2008, 10:54:23 AM
Post by: smedindy on March 08, 2008, 10:54:23 AM
50% B's did bumble, though. Would Chapman have done better? No one knows.
But frankly, there were a lot of 'bumbles', though.
But frankly, there were a lot of 'bumbles', though.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 08, 2008, 01:03:42 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 08, 2008, 01:03:42 PM
Maryville did get a tough draw w/ Millsaps at Millsaps, and the Scots were 2 for 22 from beyond the arch until the last minute, when they finally hit a couple. That is not the norm. This was supposed to be an off year for Maryville and really was not, except for not holding to its normal habit of winning at least one for the B's. See y'all next year!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 06:48:11 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2008, 06:48:11 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2008, 05:14:04 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 11:07:35 AM
Yeah, but I'd pin this on the committee.
True, but can you honestly say you would have expected Moravian to be that bad?
"Cinderella story: Nazareth looks like the only possible lower-seeded team with a Sweet 16 shot, though John Jay has more than a chance to win its first-round game."
http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/08/preview.htm
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on March 10, 2008, 02:03:49 PM
Post by: elfinley on March 10, 2008, 02:03:49 PM
Wow!!!!
All the B's are out, and Oxy just lost to Whitworth, a team Chapman beat. While it is hard to say if Chapman would have beaten Whitworth again, or done better than the other B's, it easy to say that the selection committee has done a bad job this year.
I know some of these games are decided on geographic location and all, but how about selecting teams on merit rather than rates on plane fare for a change huh?
Just sad to know there are probably some other teams like Chapman that deserved to make it at home watching this... Sad.
All the B's are out, and Oxy just lost to Whitworth, a team Chapman beat. While it is hard to say if Chapman would have beaten Whitworth again, or done better than the other B's, it easy to say that the selection committee has done a bad job this year.
I know some of these games are decided on geographic location and all, but how about selecting teams on merit rather than rates on plane fare for a change huh?
Just sad to know there are probably some other teams like Chapman that deserved to make it at home watching this... Sad.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 10, 2008, 02:37:50 PM
Post by: kiltedbryan on March 10, 2008, 02:37:50 PM
Quote from: elfinley on March 10, 2008, 02:03:49 PM
Wow!!!!
All the B's are out, and Oxy just lost to Whitworth, a team Chapman beat. While it is hard to say if Chapman would have beaten Whitworth again, or done better than the other B's, it easy to say that the selection committee has done a bad job this year.
I know some of these games are decided on geographic location and all, but how about selecting teams on merit rather than rates on plane fare for a change huh?
Just sad to know there are probably some other teams like Chapman that deserved to make it at home watching this... Sad.
Teams are selected on merit. Travel is only a consideration in who plays whom, after teams are selected. Chapman wasn't left out to make travel better or worse for anyone; apparently the committee felt that Moravian and the other Bs were better on the selection criteria, a decision that was probably bogus, but I don't know how all the Bs stacked up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2008, 03:24:25 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2008, 03:24:25 PM
In fact, the travel would have been BETTER if they'd chosen Chapman. The fact that they didn't underscores the point that geography is not a factor in selection, only in bracketing.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: the_real_gnac on April 10, 2008, 04:48:42 PM
Post by: the_real_gnac on April 10, 2008, 04:48:42 PM
Yea it seems alot of the teams selected lost in the first round almost seems as if other teams also worthy should have got the bid instead
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 07, 2008, 11:00:54 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 07, 2008, 11:00:54 PM
Association of D-III Independents (http://www.d3independents.org/members.htm) participate in Pool B for NCAA sports. Here is the 2007-08 membership. (There will be some changes in 2008-09.)
Cal State-East Bay participates in NAIA for basketball. They have announced that they are moving to D-II and taking a very formidable baseball program with them.
UC Santa Cruz -- The Banana Slugs are known as a soccer power as well as for their mascot.
Chapman -- staying in D-III.
University of Dallas -- ditto.
Finlandia -- ditto, but needs the NCAA to move them into more appropriate regions for the sake of in-region games.
Fisk -- has announced that they will compete in the NAIA.
Green Mountain College VT -- is joining the North Atlantic Conference in 2008-09.
La Sierra University CA-- Moving thru the provisional process. We find out if they are promoted to Year-3 in August.
Lancaster Bible College -- Should be promoted to Year 3 Provisional in August 2008. (IMHO, they would make an excellent addition to the member-depleted NEAC.)
University of Maine, Presque Isle -- has applied for joint membership in the NAIA. (Unless they can sign on with one of the New England conferences, this may give this geographically isolated program more options.) UMPI should be a full member in 2008.
Menlo College -- competes in the NAIA in basketball.
Mills College CA -- women's school that does not compete in basketball.
Mitchell College -- joining the New England Collegiate Conference (NECC). Should be provisional year #4 next year.
Mount Mary WI -- women's school that finds out if they are awarded full membership in the NCAA in August.
Nebraska Wesleyan University -- staying in D-III. (Joint membership in the NAIA Great Plains AC.)
College of New Rochelle NJ -- Women's school in New Rochelle, NY
Newbury College -- joining the NECC.
College of St Elizabeth -- Women's school in Morristown, NJ
St Joseph's College Brooklyn NY -- Should be going to Provisional Year #2 in August.
Salem College -- Women's school in Winston-Salem NC. Should become a full member in August.
Southern Vermont College -- joining the NECC in Fall 2008.
One can see the interesting dynamics in this group of 21 schools.
One is moving to D-II.
One is moving to the NAIA.
Two of the three full women's members compete in basketball.
Four are joining conferences.
Five of the independents are in the provisional process.
Five of these members compete in men's basketball in D-III as independents next season. (Let's see if UMPI competes in the NCAA in basketball in Pool B or in the NAIA.)
We shall see if any of the new provisional members join over the summer.
(For the first two years, the NECC will be a Pool B conference. Its seven male teams will count towards Pool B numbers.)
Edit -- There is no confirmation of the move by Fisk to NAIA. See NCAA Press Release (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/home?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Fisk+drops+varsity+athletics+in+restructuring+action+-+02-22-08+NCAA+News). Thanks to pabegg and Pat Coleman.
Cal State-East Bay participates in NAIA for basketball. They have announced that they are moving to D-II and taking a very formidable baseball program with them.
UC Santa Cruz -- The Banana Slugs are known as a soccer power as well as for their mascot.
Chapman -- staying in D-III.
University of Dallas -- ditto.
Finlandia -- ditto, but needs the NCAA to move them into more appropriate regions for the sake of in-region games.
Fisk -- has announced that they will compete in the NAIA.
Green Mountain College VT -- is joining the North Atlantic Conference in 2008-09.
La Sierra University CA-- Moving thru the provisional process. We find out if they are promoted to Year-3 in August.
Lancaster Bible College -- Should be promoted to Year 3 Provisional in August 2008. (IMHO, they would make an excellent addition to the member-depleted NEAC.)
University of Maine, Presque Isle -- has applied for joint membership in the NAIA. (Unless they can sign on with one of the New England conferences, this may give this geographically isolated program more options.) UMPI should be a full member in 2008.
Menlo College -- competes in the NAIA in basketball.
Mills College CA -- women's school that does not compete in basketball.
Mitchell College -- joining the New England Collegiate Conference (NECC). Should be provisional year #4 next year.
Mount Mary WI -- women's school that finds out if they are awarded full membership in the NCAA in August.
Nebraska Wesleyan University -- staying in D-III. (Joint membership in the NAIA Great Plains AC.)
College of New Rochelle NJ -- Women's school in New Rochelle, NY
Newbury College -- joining the NECC.
College of St Elizabeth -- Women's school in Morristown, NJ
St Joseph's College Brooklyn NY -- Should be going to Provisional Year #2 in August.
Salem College -- Women's school in Winston-Salem NC. Should become a full member in August.
Southern Vermont College -- joining the NECC in Fall 2008.
One can see the interesting dynamics in this group of 21 schools.
One is moving to D-II.
One is moving to the NAIA.
Two of the three full women's members compete in basketball.
Four are joining conferences.
Five of the independents are in the provisional process.
Five of these members compete in men's basketball in D-III as independents next season. (Let's see if UMPI competes in the NCAA in basketball in Pool B or in the NAIA.)
We shall see if any of the new provisional members join over the summer.
(For the first two years, the NECC will be a Pool B conference. Its seven male teams will count towards Pool B numbers.)
Edit -- There is no confirmation of the move by Fisk to NAIA. See NCAA Press Release (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/home?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Fisk+drops+varsity+athletics+in+restructuring+action+-+02-22-08+NCAA+News). Thanks to pabegg and Pat Coleman.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 02:11:03 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 02:11:03 AM
Ralph,
I'd love to see UMPI compete in d3, but it is pretty academic until they can compete, period! :D
Same for Finlandia - their region has just gotta be changed, but it doesn't matter much for now. ;) (If they are actually good in some sport I don't follow, my apologies!)
I'd love to see UMPI compete in d3, but it is pretty academic until they can compete, period! :D
Same for Finlandia - their region has just gotta be changed, but it doesn't matter much for now. ;) (If they are actually good in some sport I don't follow, my apologies!)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 04:56:53 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 04:56:53 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 02:11:03 AMGuess which sport those Finns are good at?
Ralph,
I'd love to see UMPI compete in d3, but it is pretty academic until they can compete, period! :D
Same for Finlandia - their region has just gotta be changed, but it doesn't matter much for now. ;) (If they are actually good in some sport I don't follow, my apologies!)
Men's (http://www.finlandia.edu/Department/Athletics/athleticstats/MHockeySCHED.html) Hockey! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: BoBo on June 08, 2008, 08:35:03 AM
Post by: BoBo on June 08, 2008, 08:35:03 AM
They must be good a XC skiing and ski jumping, too!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2008, 10:57:17 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2008, 10:57:17 AM
Mount Mary won't be a full member next year. They have to repeat a year.
Re: Fisk, I know that has been claimed but does anyone have evidence? There was no mention of the NAIA on Fisk's site and no mention of Fisk on the NAIA's site that I could find.
Re: Fisk, I know that has been claimed but does anyone have evidence? There was no mention of the NAIA on Fisk's site and no mention of Fisk on the NAIA's site that I could find.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on June 08, 2008, 12:25:59 PM
Post by: pabegg on June 08, 2008, 12:25:59 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2008, 10:57:17 AM
Re: Fisk, I know that has been claimed but does anyone have evidence? There was no mention of the NAIA on Fisk's site and no mention of Fisk on the NAIA's site that I could find.
The story that I've seen is that they are dropping varsity athletics completely. Link from NCAA (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/home?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Fisk+drops+varsity+athletics+in+restructuring+action+-+02-22-08+NCAA+News)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 01:37:40 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 01:37:40 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 04:56:53 AMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 02:11:03 AMGuess which sport those Finns are good at?
Ralph,
I'd love to see UMPI compete in d3, but it is pretty academic until they can compete, period! :D
Same for Finlandia - their region has just gotta be changed, but it doesn't matter much for now. ;) (If they are actually good in some sport I don't follow, my apologies!)
Men's (http://www.finlandia.edu/Department/Athletics/athleticstats/MHockeySCHED.html) Hockey! ;)
Overall, pretty respectable, but I see they were 0-2-1 against the WIAC and 0-2 against first-year team Adrian! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 01:50:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 01:50:37 PM
Quote from: pabegg on June 08, 2008, 12:25:59 PMThanks for the input. My source is Fisk alumnus Wilburt (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4529.1513) in posts #1513 and #1517.Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2008, 10:57:17 AM
Re: Fisk, I know that has been claimed but does anyone have evidence? There was no mention of the NAIA on Fisk's site and no mention of Fisk on the NAIA's site that I could find.
The story that I've seen is that they are dropping varsity athletics completely. Link from NCAA (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/home?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Fisk+drops+varsity+athletics+in+restructuring+action+-+02-22-08+NCAA+News)
The NAIA would allow them to compete in the basic sports in an organized fashion. As cited in the NCAA press release, however you account for $300,000 for a D-III athletic program, that is about $500,000 less than the lowest of most of the D-III's in that part of the South.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 02:07:51 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 02:07:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 01:37:40 PMFirst-year Adrian dominated the Midwest College Hockey Association in 2007-08 (http://www.mchahockey.com/New_Season/MCHA%20Standings/2007-2008.htm)! ;)Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 04:56:53 AMOverall, pretty respectable, but I see they were 0-2-1 against the WIAC and 0-2 against first-year team Adrian! ;)Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 02:11:03 AMGuess which sport those Finns are good at?
Ralph,
I'd love to see UMPI compete in d3, but it is pretty academic until they can compete, period! :D
Same for Finlandia - their region has just gotta be changed, but it doesn't matter much for now. ;) (If they are actually good in some sport I don't follow, my apologies!)
Men's (http://www.finlandia.edu/Department/Athletics/athleticstats/MHockeySCHED.html) Hockey! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 04:21:09 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 04:21:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 02:07:51 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 01:37:40 PMFirst-year Adrian dominated the Midwest College Hockey Association in 2007-08 (http://www.mchahockey.com/New_Season/MCHA%20Standings/2007-2008.htm)! ;)Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 04:56:53 AMOverall, pretty respectable, but I see they were 0-2-1 against the WIAC and 0-2 against first-year team Adrian! ;)Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 02:11:03 AMGuess which sport those Finns are good at?
Ralph,
I'd love to see UMPI compete in d3, but it is pretty academic until they can compete, period! :D
Same for Finlandia - their region has just gotta be changed, but it doesn't matter much for now. ;) (If they are actually good in some sport I don't follow, my apologies!)
Men's (http://www.finlandia.edu/Department/Athletics/athleticstats/MHockeySCHED.html) Hockey! ;)
Yet Adrian did not get an invite to the national tourney. Obvious conclusion: the MCHA is (or at least is perceived as) incredibly weak.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 05:44:43 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 05:44:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 04:21:09 PMAnd, the Midwest College Hockey Association is not a Pool A Conference. See page 9 of the 2008 D3 Hockey Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/iceHockey/2008/2008_d3_m_ice_hockey_handbook.pdf), altho' the MCHA is trying to become an official single sport conference. See Page 6, Item 11 (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/resources/file/eb9903042d197dc/020508MCMinutes.pdf?MOD=AJPERES). They are having trouble getting all of the paperwork to the committee.Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 02:07:51 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 01:37:40 PMFirst-year Adrian dominated the Midwest College Hockey Association in 2007-08 (http://www.mchahockey.com/New_Season/MCHA%20Standings/2007-2008.htm)! ;)Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 04:56:53 AMOverall, pretty respectable, but I see they were 0-2-1 against the WIAC and 0-2 against first-year team Adrian! ;)Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on June 08, 2008, 02:11:03 AMGuess which sport those Finns are good at?
Ralph,
I'd love to see UMPI compete in d3, but it is pretty academic until they can compete, period! :D
Same for Finlandia - their region has just gotta be changed, but it doesn't matter much for now. ;) (If they are actually good in some sport I don't follow, my apologies!)
Men's (http://www.finlandia.edu/Department/Athletics/athleticstats/MHockeySCHED.html) Hockey! ;)
Yet Adrian did not get an invite to the national tourney. Obvious conclusion: the MCHA is (or at least is perceived as) incredibly weak.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2008, 06:24:48 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2008, 06:24:48 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 08, 2008, 01:50:37 PMQuote from: pabegg on June 08, 2008, 12:25:59 PMThanks for the input. My source is Fisk alumnus Wilburt (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4529.1513) in posts #1513 and #1517.Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 08, 2008, 10:57:17 AM
Re: Fisk, I know that has been claimed but does anyone have evidence? There was no mention of the NAIA on Fisk's site and no mention of Fisk on the NAIA's site that I could find.
The story that I've seen is that they are dropping varsity athletics completely. Link from NCAA (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/home?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/NCAA/NCAA+News/NCAA+News+Online/2008/Division+III/Fisk+drops+varsity+athletics+in+restructuring+action+-+02-22-08+NCAA+News)
The NAIA would allow them to compete in the basic sports in an organized fashion. As cited in the NCAA press release, however you account for $300,000 for a D-III athletic program, that is about $500,000 less than the lowest of most of the D-III's in that part of the South.
Right. I know a poster has claimed that but that doesn't mean it's accurate. Remember said poster also has claimed Fisk would be joining Division II and the SIAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 07:35:52 AM
Post by: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 07:35:52 AM
Pat don't start nothing and there won't be anything. Okay your information may be dated. Fisk officials have recently sent letters to alumni that Fisk will be/is applying to the NAIA (while still leaving the NCAA).
Pat, since you have an outstanding relationship with the Fisk Athletic Director you can sure call him or email him to confirm same. You can make it difficult to be civil to you at times Pat.
PS. At the time I made the statement that Fisk would be going to D2 and the SIAC that was correct. Remember, just because you publicly said Fisk did not maintain a D3 basketball program at one time did not make it accurate.
Pat, since you have an outstanding relationship with the Fisk Athletic Director you can sure call him or email him to confirm same. You can make it difficult to be civil to you at times Pat.
PS. At the time I made the statement that Fisk would be going to D2 and the SIAC that was correct. Remember, just because you publicly said Fisk did not maintain a D3 basketball program at one time did not make it accurate.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 09, 2008, 08:08:28 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 09, 2008, 08:08:28 AM
Thanks, Wilburt. Good luck with the process.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 08:24:20 AM
Post by: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 08:24:20 AM
You are welcome Dr. Ralph. BTW, what's the secret to McMurry's track and field success?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 09, 2008, 08:52:59 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 09, 2008, 08:52:59 AM
Quote from: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 08:24:20 AMCoach Barbara Crousen (http://athletics.mcm.edu/bio.asp?staffid=5)! She is a wonderful individual, a "classically trained" physical education instructor, and an insightful "grandmother-type" who knows how to get the most out of her student-athletes, during the trying times that young adults face in their college years. She has a great eye for talent, and can find those athletes who are not ready for D-I or D-II. Under her tutelage, and the opportunity to compete against the best*, she can bring things out of athletes they did not know they had.
You are welcome Dr. Ralph. BTW, what's the secret to McMurry's track and field success?
*McMurry goes to Oklahoma and Texas Tech for indoor meets and the Iowa State indoor "last chance" meet. Outdoors, they compete in the Texas Relays (when qualified) and in meets at Texas-Arlington, North Texas, Baylor and cross-town Abilene Christian (51-time Men's and Women's Indoor and Outdoor D-II Champions). Track is historically a very big sport in Texas high schools, so there is much talent to develop.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 09, 2008, 01:30:43 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 09, 2008, 01:30:43 PM
Quote from: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 07:35:52 AM
Pat don't start nothing and there won't be anything. Okay your information may be dated. Fisk officials have recently sent letters to alumni that Fisk will be/is applying to the NAIA (while still leaving the NCAA).
Pat, since you have an outstanding relationship with the Fisk Athletic Director you can sure call him or email him to confirm same. You can make it difficult to be civil to you at times Pat.
PS. At the time I made the statement that Fisk would be going to D2 and the SIAC that was correct. Remember, just because you publicly said Fisk did not maintain a D3 basketball program at one time did not make it accurate.
Well, if Fisk or the NAIA confirm it then I'll believe it. Otherwise, it's just your word against their non-word.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on June 09, 2008, 01:59:09 PM
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on June 09, 2008, 01:59:09 PM
If they sent out letters to alumni, then isnt that their word (to some extent)? But, they may not go through with joining the NAIA anyway even if they are exploring it as of now.
Well either way, here is a more in-depth article from Black Collegian:
http://www.black-collegian.com/news/bcwire/fisk_ncaa_0208.htm
Well either way, here is a more in-depth article from Black Collegian:
http://www.black-collegian.com/news/bcwire/fisk_ncaa_0208.htm
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 02:04:39 PM
Post by: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 02:04:39 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on June 09, 2008, 01:30:43 PMQuote from: wilburt on June 09, 2008, 07:35:52 AM
Pat don't start nothing and there won't be anything. Okay your information may be dated. Fisk officials have recently sent letters to alumni that Fisk will be/is applying to the NAIA (while still leaving the NCAA).
Pat, since you have an outstanding relationship with the Fisk Athletic Director you can sure call him or email him to confirm same. You can make it difficult to be civil to you at times Pat.
PS. At the time I made the statement that Fisk would be going to D2 and the SIAC that was correct. Remember, just because you publicly said Fisk did not maintain a D3 basketball program at one time did not make it accurate.
Well, if Fisk or the NAIA confirm it then I'll believe it. Otherwise, it's just your word against their non-word.
Doubting Thomas. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 09, 2008, 08:31:31 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 09, 2008, 08:31:31 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on June 09, 2008, 01:59:09 PM
If they sent out letters to alumni, then isnt that their word (to some extent)? But, they may not go through with joining the NAIA anyway even if they are exploring it as of now.
Well either way, here is a more in-depth article from Black Collegian:
http://www.black-collegian.com/news/bcwire/fisk_ncaa_0208.htm
An article which doesn't mention the NAIA.
They may or may not have sent letters to alumni. All we have is Wilburt's word on it.
I'm not doubting Thomas. I'm doubting Fisk.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on June 10, 2008, 12:52:07 AM
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on June 10, 2008, 12:52:07 AM
I never said the article did mention the NAIA. But, it gives some interesting info.
Pat you seem grumpy at times... :P ;) ;D
Pat you seem grumpy at times... :P ;) ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 10, 2008, 09:17:30 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 10, 2008, 09:17:30 AM
Just trying to clarify for people who didn't read it -- the way you worded your response made it possible you were trying to say that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on June 10, 2008, 03:16:17 PM
Post by: wilburt on June 10, 2008, 03:16:17 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on June 10, 2008, 12:52:07 AM
Pat you seem grumpy at times... :P ;) ;D
I thought it was just constipation ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on June 20, 2008, 07:48:24 AM
Post by: wilburt on June 20, 2008, 07:48:24 AM
Here's the proof doubting Pat is looking for regarding Fisk basketball.
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008806200384
http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008806200384
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 20, 2008, 08:42:43 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 20, 2008, 08:42:43 AM
Congratulations, Wilburt!
It seemed that someone was trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Accounting is not static. That $200,000 being spent on athletics was not just out of the Athletics Budget. Some of the money that was being spent on athletics was achieving missions in student life, alumni relations and student recruitment.
It seemed that someone was trying to throw the baby out with the bathwater!
Accounting is not static. That $200,000 being spent on athletics was not just out of the Athletics Budget. Some of the money that was being spent on athletics was achieving missions in student life, alumni relations and student recruitment.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on June 20, 2008, 09:08:14 AM
Post by: Wydown Blvd. on June 20, 2008, 09:08:14 AM
Good stuff.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on June 20, 2008, 12:45:23 PM
Post by: wilburt on June 20, 2008, 12:45:23 PM
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on June 20, 2008, 09:08:14 AM
Good stuff.
You can say that again. Where's Pat?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 20, 2008, 11:07:01 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on June 20, 2008, 11:07:01 PM
If you look at my latest posts, I've not been on the site all day. I responded privately, however, though I see now you saw fit to be a smart-ass publicly. :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wilburt on June 22, 2008, 11:59:36 AM
Post by: wilburt on June 22, 2008, 11:59:36 AM
Thanks for your private response Pat.
If my actions/comments were perceived by you as being a smart-ass then I publicly apologize. That was not my intent. My intent was to get your response to the article which you did privately.
I hope this can be a new beginning between us Pat. :)
If my actions/comments were perceived by you as being a smart-ass then I publicly apologize. That was not my intent. My intent was to get your response to the article which you did privately.
I hope this can be a new beginning between us Pat. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on July 18, 2008, 03:07:32 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on July 18, 2008, 03:07:32 PM
Chill, men. Y'all miss the old GSAC board so much you want to start it up again?
I still think the real shame here is that Fisk has such trouble getting financial support equivalent to its historic, current, and future role in this screwy world.
I still think the real shame here is that Fisk has such trouble getting financial support equivalent to its historic, current, and future role in this screwy world.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2008, 08:14:02 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2008, 08:14:02 PM
Pool B schools in the Top 25...
#25 Elms (New England Collegiate Conference)
"#26" Maryville TN (Great South Athletic Conference)
"#49" Scranton (Landmark Conference)
#25 Elms (New England Collegiate Conference)
"#26" Maryville TN (Great South Athletic Conference)
"#49" Scranton (Landmark Conference)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2008, 08:44:43 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2008, 08:44:43 PM
Ralph, how many Bs are we looking at this year - or is that subject to change in February? :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2008, 09:20:32 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2008, 09:20:32 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2008, 08:44:43 PM
Ralph, how many Bs are we looking at this year - or is that subject to change in February? :D
:D :D :D
So far, I identify these Pool B schools.
Northeast Region: 8 -- New England Collegiate Conference -7 plus provisional Mitchell. NECC (http://www.neccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index) plus U Maine Presque Isle. (Year #1 in Pool B for the NECC as a conference.)
East Region: 0
Atlantic Region: 1 (USMMA from the Landmark Conference)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 7 (Landmark Conference schools. This should be the last year in Pool B for the Landmark Conference.)
South Region: 5 (GSAC-4 plus Rust). (UDallas is now an affiliate of the NEAC.)
Great Lakes: 1 (Finlandia)
Midwest Region: 0
West Region: 10 (UMAC-7 plus 4th-year provisional Presentation; Neb Wesleyan; UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs; Chapman.) (This is the first year as a new conference for the UMAC.)
"The Provisional Pipeline" (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=35164) contains 16 schools.
I count 32 schools in Pool B. That should mean 3 Pool B bids. In 2009-10, the Landmark goes Pool A. In 2010-11, the NECC and the UMAC go to Pool A. Only two provisional schools that become eligible in 2010-11 are not aligned with conferences. In the 2011-12 season, I count 13 schools in Pool B. (UMPI, Lancaster Bible, the GSAC-4, Rust, Finlandia, North Central MN, Neb Wes, Chapman, LaSierra, UC Santa Cruz) That should be one Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2008, 06:31:45 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 02, 2008, 06:31:45 PM
New Men's Basketball Handbook (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf) is out. It is dated November 25, 2008. I have tried to reconcile my prognostications with the Handbook below.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2008, 09:20:32 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2008, 08:44:43 PM
Ralph, how many Bs are we looking at this year - or is that subject to change in February? :D
:D :D :D
So far, I identify these Pool B schools.
Northeast Region: 8 -- New England Collegiate Conference -7 plus provisional Mitchell. NECC (http://www.neccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index) plus U Maine Presque Isle. (Year #1 in Pool B for the NECC as a conference.)
The Handbook counts 7 Pool B's and still has UMPI as provisional member of D-III as designated by the asterisk. The NAIA website has UMPI as a participant from the Sunrise Conference in the NAIA National tourney. (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf)
East Region: 0
Agrees
Atlantic Region: 1 (USMMA from the Landmark Conference)
Agrees
Mid-Atlantic Region: 7 (Landmark Conference schools. This should be the last year in Pool B for the Landmark Conference.)
Agrees
South Region: 5 (GSAC-4 plus Rust). (UDallas is now an affiliate of the NEAC.)
The Handbook lists 6 Pool B's but has not designated Spalding University as a provisional school. I agree with the other 5 as Pool B.
Great Lakes: 1 (Finlandia)
The Handbook shows that Finlandia has been moved to West Region! Great move!
Midwest Region: 0
Agrees
West Region: 10 (UMAC-7 plus 4th-year provisional Presentation; Neb Wesleyan; UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs; Chapman.) (This is the first year as a new conference for the UMAC.)
There are several differences in the West Region. The Handbook lists 13 schools.
CSU-East Bay is listed as participating in the NAIA tourney (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf) from the California Pacific Conference. Menlo from the same conference is listed as participating in the NAIA basketball tourney and designated by the "#" in the Handbook.
LaSierra is not designated as provisional member in the Handbook.
I think that the correct listing of the West Pool B's includes the UMAC-7 (BLC, Crown, MLC, UM-Morris, Northland, Northwestern MN and CSS) Neb Wesleyan, UC Santa Cruz, Chapman and Finlandia, which equals 11.
The access ratio is listed at 1 Pool B bid for every 9.30 participants in Pool B. If we round up, then that is 4 Pool B bids for 28 schools in Pool B or more. If we truncate, that means 3 Pool B bids for 28-38 participating schools in Pool B. The Handbook does not specify whether to round up or to truncate.
"The Provisional Pipeline" (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=35164) contains 16 schools.
I count 32 schools in Pool B. That should mean 3 Pool B bids. In 2009-10, the Landmark goes Pool A. In 2010-11, the NECC and the UMAC go to Pool A. Only two provisional schools that become eligible in 2010-11 are not aligned with conferences. In the 2010-11 season, I count 13 schools in Pool B. (UMPI, Lancaster Bible, the GSAC-4, Rust, Finlandia, North Central MN, Neb Wes, Chapman, LaSierra, UC Santa Cruz) That should be one Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 07:39:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2008, 07:39:37 PM
Updated Handbook, 12/05/08 (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf)
60 bids
39 Pool A bids
3 Pool B bids (Handbook mentions that the final number was "rounded down".)
18 Pool C bids.
(395 eligible teams give us 60 bids. This probably stays at this number for 1-2 years. Maryville MO moves to D-2 next year. Mitchell and Presentation should move to full membership in 2009-10. That would make 396 teams. 61 bids times 6.5 = 396.5 schools, needing 397 teams. The pipeline has 6 teams getting full membership in 2010-11. That would give 402 teams in 2010-11 for 61 bids. Five schools are in the provisional pipeline to be full members in 2011-12. That makes 407 schools, which is enough for 62 bids for the 2012 tourney.)
60 bids
39 Pool A bids
3 Pool B bids (Handbook mentions that the final number was "rounded down".)
18 Pool C bids.
(395 eligible teams give us 60 bids. This probably stays at this number for 1-2 years. Maryville MO moves to D-2 next year. Mitchell and Presentation should move to full membership in 2009-10. That would make 396 teams. 61 bids times 6.5 = 396.5 schools, needing 397 teams. The pipeline has 6 teams getting full membership in 2010-11. That would give 402 teams in 2010-11 for 61 bids. Five schools are in the provisional pipeline to be full members in 2011-12. That makes 407 schools, which is enough for 62 bids for the 2012 tourney.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2008, 04:33:08 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2008, 04:33:08 AM
Thanks, as always, for your detective work on the NCAA's goings-on, Ralph.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2008, 04:51:23 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2008, 04:51:23 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 08, 2008, 04:33:08 AMThanks, Greg!
Thanks, as always, for your detective work on the NCAA's goings-on, Ralph.
Pool B projections for 2009-10...
Thirty-four Pool B teams in 2008-09,
Plus two new members in 2009-10 going to Pool B (Mitchell in the NECC and Presentation in the UMAC) make 36 Pool B's.
Minus 8 Landmark members going to Pool A equals 28.
The Access ratio is 9.30 (and may not change very much)
28 divided by 9.30 = 3.01 which truncates to 3 bids.
(395 teams plus 2 teams minus Maryville MO = 396 teams divided by 6.5 teams per bid = 60.92 bids which truncates to 60 bids. That should mean 40 Pool A conferences, 3 Pool B bids and 17 Pool C bids.)
Pool B projections for 2010-11...
28 Pool B members plus 3 new Pool B's of the 6 schools in this class: Lancaster Bible PA (Indep), Lyndon State VT (NAC), St Vincent PA (PresAC), SUNY-Morrisville (SUNYAC), LaSierra CA (Indep), North Central MN (Indep) equals 31.
Minus new Pool A conferences NECC (8 members) and UMAC (8 members) equals 15.
15 divided by 9.3 < 1.99 which truncates to 1 bid.
Who wants to admit those other three independents?
We are at one Pool B bid in 2010-11.
396 teams in 2009-10 plus 6 new teams = 402.
402 divided by 6.5 = 61.85 bids, which truncates to 61 bids in 2010-11. That should mean 42 Pool A conferences, 1 Pool B bid and 18 Pool C bids in 2010-11.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 11, 2008, 02:31:15 PM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 11, 2008, 02:31:15 PM
North Central MN might not be an independent any more when they become a full D3 member/. They are listed as an affiliate member in the UMAC this season. I wouldn't be surprised if they became a full member by 2010-2011. The biggest obstacle I see for them joining is it would mean the UMAC would have to totally reformat their schedule. They currently use travel partners much like the UAA does and playds Friday-Staurday every weekend. North Central MN would make 9 and throw the entire thing off.
That would put Pool B a team farther away from getting another bid. With the 9.3 access ratio you have they would need 19 teams. If North Central MN is no longer independent they only have 14 teams. Those other three independents still wouldn't help them.
That would put Pool B a team farther away from getting another bid. With the 9.3 access ratio you have they would need 19 teams. If North Central MN is no longer independent they only have 14 teams. Those other three independents still wouldn't help them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2008, 03:47:51 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 11, 2008, 03:47:51 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 11, 2008, 02:31:15 PMThanks hickory cornhusker! North Central's joining the UMAC has been in the back of my mind since I saw the UMAC schools moving into D3.
North Central MN might not be an independent any more when they become a full D3 member/. They are listed as an affiliate member in the UMAC this season. I wouldn't be surprised if they became a full member by 2010-2011. The biggest obstacle I see for them joining is it would mean the UMAC would have to totally reformat their schedule. They currently use travel partners much like the UAA does and playds Friday-Staurday every weekend. North Central MN would make 9 and throw the entire thing off.
That would put Pool B a team farther away from getting another bid. With the 9.3 access ratio you have they would need 19 teams. If North Central MN is no longer independent they only have 14 teams. Those other three independents still wouldn't help them.
One value that North Central can bring to the UMAC is if they sponsor sports that helps the UMAC achieve the automatic qualifier in other sports. NCU sponsors five sports (M/W XC, M/W TF, M/W BKB, M/W soccer, Baseball and Volleyball) and has softball and men's golf as club sports. NCU has an enrollment of 1200. There is NCAA legislation that requires schools with > 1000 students to offer 6 sports.* NCU may need to make softball and men's golf varsity sports. NCU would be the 7th men's golf program which would give the UMAC a golf AQ.
NCU's adding football would give the UMAC 6 schools, one shy of the AQ. (Might Macalester affiliate if it meant the chance at an AQ?)
*EDIT: This legislation is anticipated to be effective in about 2010-11.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on December 13, 2008, 12:04:35 PM
Post by: AO on December 13, 2008, 12:04:35 PM
I'd be very surprised if North Central added football, but I suppose they do manage to field baseball, soccer and track teams without having any outdoor facilities of their own.
I don't see why Macalester doesn't join the UMAC for football, they played all the UMAC teams this year, and they're not looking like they'll be ready to rejoin the MIAC in football anytime soon.
I don't see why Macalester doesn't join the UMAC for football, they played all the UMAC teams this year, and they're not looking like they'll be ready to rejoin the MIAC in football anytime soon.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 04, 2009, 08:17:46 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 04, 2009, 08:17:46 PM
I identify these Pool B schools competing for the 3 Pool B bids..
Northeast Region: 8 -- New England Collegiate Conference -7 plus provisional Mitchell. NECC (http://www.neccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index) plus U Maine Presque Isle. Elms (10-1/9-1 in-region) is the best team in this conference.
East Region: 0
Atlantic Region: 1, USMMA from the Landmark Conference.
Mid-Atlantic Region: 7 Landmark Conference schools. Catholic 10-2/4-1 in-region is the front-runner.
South Region: 5 (GSAC-4 plus Rust). Perennial power Maryville TN is only 4-6/3-6 in-region. Piedmont is 4-8/3-7 with 10 regular season in-region games remaining.
Great Lakes: 1 (Finlandia is 2-10/1-2 in-region.
Midwest Region: 0
West Region: 10 (UMAC-7 plus 4th-year provisional Presentation; Neb Wesleyan; UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs; Chapman.) Chapman looks like it is off to a great start for Pool B consideration. Chapman is 10-2/8-2 in-region. Northwestern MN in the UMAC is 8-4/5-3 in region. Neb Wes is 6-6/2-3. UCSC is 4-8/4-6 in-region.
My first look at Pool B has:
1) Elms
2) Chapman
3) Catholic
Maryville TN and Northwestern MN are looking in.
Northeast Region: 8 -- New England Collegiate Conference -7 plus provisional Mitchell. NECC (http://www.neccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index) plus U Maine Presque Isle. Elms (10-1/9-1 in-region) is the best team in this conference.
East Region: 0
Atlantic Region: 1, USMMA from the Landmark Conference.
Mid-Atlantic Region: 7 Landmark Conference schools. Catholic 10-2/4-1 in-region is the front-runner.
South Region: 5 (GSAC-4 plus Rust). Perennial power Maryville TN is only 4-6/3-6 in-region. Piedmont is 4-8/3-7 with 10 regular season in-region games remaining.
Great Lakes: 1 (Finlandia is 2-10/1-2 in-region.
Midwest Region: 0
West Region: 10 (UMAC-7 plus 4th-year provisional Presentation; Neb Wesleyan; UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs; Chapman.) Chapman looks like it is off to a great start for Pool B consideration. Chapman is 10-2/8-2 in-region. Northwestern MN in the UMAC is 8-4/5-3 in region. Neb Wes is 6-6/2-3. UCSC is 4-8/4-6 in-region.
My first look at Pool B has:
1) Elms
2) Chapman
3) Catholic
Maryville TN and Northwestern MN are looking in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 10:13:34 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 10:13:34 AM
Thru games of Jan 11th, Pool B teams by winning percentage of in-region games. Three bids will be awarded. Please see the Handbook (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf) for the list of criteria.
EDIT: Thanks to pabegg for calling my attention to Becker. If they can run the table, then they have a good chance. I really doubt that Chapman loses 2 more games of the 6 in-region games that remain. (I have not included a post-season tourney in that total of 6.) It looks like the threshold for in-region winning percentage will be around .700 or roughly 14-6.
| Team........................ | Conference... | Region.... | Overall... | In-Reg... | In-Reg %-age |
| 1) Elms | NECC | NEast | 11-1 | 10-1 | .909 |
| 2) Chapman | Indep | West | 12-2 | 10-2 | .833 |
| 3) Northwestern MN | UMAC | West | 10-4 | 7-3 | .700 |
| 4) Scranton | LAND | MidAtl | 9-4 | 9-4 | .692 |
| 5) Catholic | LAND | MidAtl | 11-3 | 5-3 | .625 |
| 6T) Susquehanna | LAND | MidAtl | 8-5 | 6-4 | .600 |
| 6T) Becker | NECC | NEast | 6-4 | 6-4 | .600 |
EDIT: Thanks to pabegg for calling my attention to Becker. If they can run the table, then they have a good chance. I really doubt that Chapman loses 2 more games of the 6 in-region games that remain. (I have not included a post-season tourney in that total of 6.) It looks like the threshold for in-region winning percentage will be around .700 or roughly 14-6.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 12, 2009, 11:06:02 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 12, 2009, 11:06:02 AM
Thanks, Ralph. You are a helpful fellow.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on January 12, 2009, 11:26:39 AM
Post by: pabegg on January 12, 2009, 11:26:39 AM
Northwestern and Catholic have weaker schedules; I think Susquehanna and Becker are probably ranked above them at this point.
Elms appears to be where Maryville usually is, as a runaway leader for Pool B.
Elms appears to be where Maryville usually is, as a runaway leader for Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on January 12, 2009, 05:54:00 PM
Post by: ronk on January 12, 2009, 05:54:00 PM
Ralph,
Do we know if the primary selection criteria are equally weighted? and ,if unequal, what's the ranking of the criteria? The handbook doesn't say. These are used for regional rankings in addition to Pool B/C selection, also.
Do we know if the primary selection criteria are equally weighted? and ,if unequal, what's the ranking of the criteria? The handbook doesn't say. These are used for regional rankings in addition to Pool B/C selection, also.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:15:03 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:15:03 PM
Quote from: ronk on January 12, 2009, 05:54:00 PMI believe that they are "equally" weighted.
Ralph,
Do we know if the primary selection criteria are equally weighted? and ,if unequal, what's the ranking of the criteria? The handbook doesn't say. These are used for regional rankings in addition to Pool B/C selection, also.
This is looking like Elms and Chapman are leading, but I missed last year, when I thought that Chapman would get in over the Landmark schools.
It may be hard to ignore a 16-2 Chapman this season.
I think that Elms edges Becker and the third B goes to the Landmark champ.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2009, 06:17:36 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2009, 06:17:36 PM
Quote from: ronk on January 12, 2009, 05:54:00 PM
Ralph,
Do we know if the primary selection criteria are equally weighted? and ,if unequal, what's the ranking of the criteria? The handbook doesn't say. These are used for regional rankings in addition to Pool B/C selection, also.
That's been an ongoing debate for years. You're right, the handbook doesn't say.
My strong impression is that (at least most years) in-region winning % is definitely #1, with whatever the strength-of-schedule stand-in-of-the-year may be as #2, and others mainly as tie-breakers. But someone else may have better insight.
EDIT: I see Ralph beat me to the punch! The 'official line' seems to be equal weighting, but that hasn't been my impression.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:23:29 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:23:29 PM
Please start at post 1247. (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=2870.1245)
Several of us thought that Chapman was going to "eke" in, but Moravian got the 4th bid and promptly "bumbled"!
I respect Mr Ypsi's interpretation of "equal". I think that the committee gets a "gestalt" of what the data are showing. We fans on the west bank of the Mississippi River and westward sometimes wonder about "east coast bias".
Several of us thought that Chapman was going to "eke" in, but Moravian got the 4th bid and promptly "bumbled"!
I respect Mr Ypsi's interpretation of "equal". I think that the committee gets a "gestalt" of what the data are showing. We fans on the west bank of the Mississippi River and westward sometimes wonder about "east coast bias".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on January 12, 2009, 06:42:26 PM
Post by: sac on January 12, 2009, 06:42:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:23:29 PM
Please start at post 1247. (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=2870.1245)
Several of us thought that Chapman was going to "eke" in, but Moravian got the 4th bid and promptly "bumbled"!
I respect Mr Ypsi's interpretation of "equal". I think that the committee gets a "gestalt" of what the data are showing. We fans on the west bank of the Mississippi River and westward sometimes wonder about "east coast bias".
Before worrying about 'east coast bias' maybe you should worry about whether your regional reps know who's in which conference. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 07:41:52 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 07:41:52 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2009, 06:42:26 PMIf I catch the nuance correctly, namely the 2007 Regionals (first and second rounds) at Clinton MS, I think that the bias was Maryville not wanting to play Mississippi College in the first round, and so Oxy was paired with the Choctaws, and Maryville got UMHB.Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 06:23:29 PM
Please start at post 1247. (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=2870.1245)
Several of us thought that Chapman was going to "eke" in, but Moravian got the 4th bid and promptly "bumbled"!
I respect Mr Ypsi's interpretation of "equal". I think that the committee gets a "gestalt" of what the data are showing. We fans on the west bank of the Mississippi River and westward sometimes wonder about "east coast bias".
Before worrying about 'east coast bias' maybe you should worry about whether your regional reps know who's in which conference. ;)
I think that it went from #1 Mississippi College/#4 UMHB and #2 Oxy/#3Maryville to #1 Mississippi College/#2 Oxy and #3Maryville/#4 UMHB.
Quote;)
Mississippi College Bracket
Messiah (19-6) at Catholic (22-5), Alvernia (23-4) vs. Lincoln (18-8)
Villa Julie (20-7) at Johns Hopkins (23-4), Manhattanville (23-5) vs. Guilford (21-4)
Averett (20-6) at Virginia Wesleyan (23-4), Hood (21-7) vs. Hampden-Sydney (18-10)
Occidental (19-5) at Mississippi College (25-2), Maryville, Tenn. (21-6) vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor (21-6)
Every time I look at the bottom matchup I get more frustrated. So the NCAA "fixed" its error in matching conference opponents up in the first round and instead makes the top two teams in the criteria face each other while the bottom two face each other.
The correct matchup, according to the criteria, would've been to put Occidental against Mary Hardin-Baylor and Maryville against Mississippi College. The makeup of committees past and present makes this "fix" suspicious.
http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/07/preview.htm
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
Post by: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PM
Wasn't it just last year the committe had to go back and redo the pairings because the committe didn't realize two teams were in the same conference?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 09:08:45 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 09:08:45 PM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PMI will put this on the NCAA staffers. I assume that they are the ones providing the background data to the committee members.
Wasn't it just last year the committee had to go back and redo the pairings because the committee didn't realize two teams were in the same conference?
It was 2007.
:)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2009, 11:28:46 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2009, 11:28:46 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 09:08:45 PMQuote from: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PMI will put this on the NCAA staffers. I assume that they are the ones providing the background data to the committee members.
Wasn't it just last year the committee had to go back and redo the pairings because the committee didn't realize two teams were in the same conference?
It was 2007.
:)
Results data, maybe. But one wonders about committee members who don't know which teams are in what conference. ;)
That WAS an embarrassment. There is no spinning that one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 13, 2009, 12:10:48 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 13, 2009, 12:10:48 AM
If Maryville were to win out, not counting the GSAC tournamant, they'd be 16 - 6 in region. Given the schedule and the fact that they've about figured out what to do to win, it's possible.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2009, 08:48:07 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2009, 08:48:07 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2009, 11:28:46 PMTrue.Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2009, 09:08:45 PMQuote from: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PMI will put this on the NCAA staffers. I assume that they are the ones providing the background data to the committee members.
Wasn't it just last year the committee had to go back and redo the pairings because the committee didn't realize two teams were in the same conference?
It was 2007.
:)
Results data, maybe. But one wonders about committee members who don't know which teams are in what conference. ;)
That WAS an embarrassment. There is no spinning that one.
I cannot find who was the South Region Representative on the National Committee. My link to the 2006-07 NCAA Handbook is no longer valid, and I have not found the new link. So, the (hyperlinks to the) names have been changed to protect the innocent (and the guilty). :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2009, 08:55:04 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 13, 2009, 08:55:04 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 13, 2009, 12:10:48 AM16-6 gets you to .737. GSAC Tourney wins get you to 18-6, .750
If Maryville were to win out, not counting the GSAC tournamant, they'd be 16 - 6 in region. Given the schedule and the fact that they've about figured out what to do to win, it's possible.
I think that Elms prevails in the NECC.
I think that Chapman will prevail over UCSC and LaSierra in their final games.
Northwestern MN can run the table in the UMAC as easily as Maryville can.
I think that the Landmark Conference will be competitive among Catholic, Susquehanna and Scranton.
Getting into the Top 8 in the South will help, too. You need the 5 ASC-East powers to beat up on each other, and the ODAC to have a brutal slugfest.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2009, 07:50:30 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2009, 07:50:30 PM
Thru games of Jan 18th, Pool B teams by winning percentage of in-region games. Three bids will be awarded. Please see the Handbook (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf) for the list of criteria.
EDIT: I have included Maryville, which has 6 more regular season in-region games and a two-game GSAC tournament. It looks like the threshold for in-region winning percentage will be at or above .727 or above 16-6.
Merchant Marine is leading the Landmark Conference with a 5-0 record. Its overall record is 9-6, but I don't think that the loss to Averett is in-region. That makes the in-region record 9-5 (.643).
Corrections are appreciated! Thanks to Eagle-eye Ypsi!
| Team........................ | Conference... | Region.... | Overall... | In-Reg... | In-Reg %-age |
| 1) Elms | NECC | NEast | 13-1 | 12-1 | .923 |
| 2) Chapman | Indep | West | 13-2 | 11-2 | .846 |
| 3) Northwestern MN | UMAC | West | 12-4 | 9-3 | .750 |
| 4) Catholic | LAND | MidAtl | 13-3 | 7-3 | .700 |
| 5) Scranton | LAND | MidAtl | 11-5 | 11-5 | .688 |
| 6 Merchant Marine | LAND | Atl | 9-6 | 9-5 | .643 |
| 7T) Susquehanna | LAND | MidAtl | 9-6 | 7-5 | .583 |
| 7T) Becker | NECC | NEast | 7-5 | 7-5 | .583 |
| 9 Maryville TN | GSAC | South | 10-6 | 8-6 | .571 |
EDIT: I have included Maryville, which has 6 more regular season in-region games and a two-game GSAC tournament. It looks like the threshold for in-region winning percentage will be at or above .727 or above 16-6.
Merchant Marine is leading the Landmark Conference with a 5-0 record. Its overall record is 9-6, but I don't think that the loss to Averett is in-region. That makes the in-region record 9-5 (.643).
Corrections are appreciated! Thanks to Eagle-eye Ypsi!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2009, 07:51:34 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 18, 2009, 07:51:34 PM
Ralph, if Northwestern's 9-3 is correct, that is .750, not .700.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on January 18, 2009, 10:06:33 PM
Post by: pabegg on January 18, 2009, 10:06:33 PM
My earliest run of the Strength of Schedule numbers indicates that the Pool B rankings would be:
Elms
Catholic
Chapman
Scranton
Daniel Webster
Minnesota-Morris
Susquehanna
Northwestern (Minn.)
Merchant Marine
Maryville (Tenn.)
Elms is well ahead of the rest; Catholic and Chapman are clearly ahead of those who follow.
Elms
Catholic
Chapman
Scranton
Daniel Webster
Minnesota-Morris
Susquehanna
Northwestern (Minn.)
Merchant Marine
Maryville (Tenn.)
Elms is well ahead of the rest; Catholic and Chapman are clearly ahead of those who follow.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 18, 2009, 10:55:36 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 18, 2009, 10:55:36 PM
Maryville won another region game today and is on a role, but there may be too many losses already even if there are no more, which is quite possible given how they played this weekend. Lots of freshmen and they are putting it together.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2009, 07:53:38 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2009, 07:53:38 AM
Quote from: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PMsac - that was two seasons ago... Mississippi College was the host site of that major mistake.
Wasn't it just last year the committe had to go back and redo the pairings because the committe didn't realize two teams were in the same conference?
Sorry to jump in on the topic a bit late, but since I have seen my fair share of Landmark Conference action, I am going to state publicly that I will be surprised if the Landmark gets any Pool B bid this season. Yes, there are a number of teams that are ranked "high" right now, but don't expect that to stay. I think Catholic may have the leg up on a bid with Scranton coming in second, but every conference team is going to beat on each other a bit. The conference is a bit "even" but "down" this season and I really would be surprised if any teams got into the NCAA Tournament at this point in time.
That being said, I was SHOCKED when TWO teams got into the tournament last season - they of course showed how much they deserved to be there by tanking their first-round games!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 20, 2009, 10:50:37 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 20, 2009, 10:50:37 AM
This is a complicated business! I see that Merchant Marine is among the teams that could get a Pool B and that they lost to Averett. Maryville (TN) beat Averett 107 - 68.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on January 20, 2009, 05:34:05 PM
Post by: ronk on January 20, 2009, 05:34:05 PM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on January 20, 2009, 07:53:38 AMQuote from: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PMsac - that was two seasons ago... Mississippi College was the host site of that major mistake.
Wasn't it just last year the committe had to go back and redo the pairings because the committe didn't realize two teams were in the same conference?
Sorry to jump in on the topic a bit late, but since I have seen my fair share of Landmark Conference action, I am going to state publicly that I will be surprised if the Landmark gets any Pool B bid this season. Yes, there are a number of teams that are ranked "high" right now, but don't expect that to stay. I think Catholic may have the leg up on a bid with Scranton coming in second, but every conference team is going to beat on each other a bit. The conference is a bit "even" but "down" this season and I really would be surprised if any teams got into the NCAA Tournament at this point in time.
That being said, I was SHOCKED when TWO teams got into the tournament last season - they of course showed how much they deserved to be there by tanking their first-round games!
Dmac,
How they did in the tournament had little to do with deserving to be there; somebody had to represent Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2009, 05:55:44 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2009, 05:55:44 PM
Quote from: ronk on January 20, 2009, 05:34:05 PMBut I believed that Chapman's numbers, as compared to the criteria, showed that Chapman was more worthy of the Pool B bid.Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on January 20, 2009, 07:53:38 AMQuote from: sac on January 12, 2009, 07:58:36 PMsac - that was two seasons ago... Mississippi College was the host site of that major mistake.
Wasn't it just last year the committe had to go back and redo the pairings because the committe didn't realize two teams were in the same conference?
Sorry to jump in on the topic a bit late, but since I have seen my fair share of Landmark Conference action, I am going to state publicly that I will be surprised if the Landmark gets any Pool B bid this season. Yes, there are a number of teams that are ranked "high" right now, but don't expect that to stay. I think Catholic may have the leg up on a bid with Scranton coming in second, but every conference team is going to beat on each other a bit. The conference is a bit "even" but "down" this season and I really would be surprised if any teams got into the NCAA Tournament at this point in time.
That being said, I was SHOCKED when TWO teams got into the tournament last season - they of course showed how much they deserved to be there by tanking their first-round games!
Dmac,
How they did in the tournament had little to do with deserving to be there; somebody had to represent Pool B.
With the nature of the regional competition, and how hard it is to compare them, was the #2 mid-Atlantic Pool B that much better than the #1 Pool B team across the country, on the west coast?
There were four bids last year. I was ready to give:
--one bid to the best Pool B team in the South, Maryville,
--one bid the best Pool B in the mid-Atlantic, Scranton, the team that won the Landmark Conference tourney,
--one bid to the best team out of the northern half of the country, Aurora, out of the big 12-team Pool B conference, the NATHC,
--and then one to Chapman, the best team in the West.
Just a little "East coast bias" suspected. >:(
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2009, 07:09:18 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 20, 2009, 07:09:18 PM
Landmark got a gift getting two teams last season. Chapman most likely deserved that extra spot. I know their results in the tournament didn't speak to why they got the bids in the first place, but Moravian faced 13-15 John Jay and couldn't win at home - that isn't a good way to "represent" when the conference got a gift. Just the way I look at it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2009, 04:48:42 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2009, 04:48:42 PM
Ugly loss by Chapman to UDallas at UCSC last night, 59-62! Great win for UDallas, tho'.
IMHO, Chapman needed the strong winning percentage to help their position in the eyes of the committee especially to outweigh the lack of quality in-region foes. Chapman is now 11-3 (in-region) with no score on the LaSierra game from Jan 23rd or the UCSC game from later today.
Chapman 81 UCSC 71 (http://www.goslugs.com/teams/basketball/men/stats/2008-2009/ucsc-cu.htm) (Chapman12-4 13-3 in region --.813)
Elms is still rolling at 15-1 overall/14-1 in-region.
NWC(MN) 80 Presentation 66 (http://www.nwceagles.com/index.aspx?tab=basketball&path=mbball)
NWC(MN) 66, UMinn-Morris 53 (http://www.morris.umn.edu/athletics/mens/basketball/)
In the Landmark, Merchant Marine, Catholic, Susquehanna and Scranton are fighting it out!
EDIT: Thanks for correcting the Chapman totals, elfinley. +1! :)
IMHO, Chapman needed the strong winning percentage to help their position in the eyes of the committee especially to outweigh the lack of quality in-region foes. Chapman is now 11-3 (in-region) with no score on the LaSierra game from Jan 23rd or the UCSC game from later today.
Chapman 81 UCSC 71 (http://www.goslugs.com/teams/basketball/men/stats/2008-2009/ucsc-cu.htm) (Chapman
Elms is still rolling at 15-1 overall/14-1 in-region.
NWC(MN) 80 Presentation 66 (http://www.nwceagles.com/index.aspx?tab=basketball&path=mbball)
NWC(MN) 66, UMinn-Morris 53 (http://www.morris.umn.edu/athletics/mens/basketball/)
In the Landmark, Merchant Marine, Catholic, Susquehanna and Scranton are fighting it out!
EDIT: Thanks for correcting the Chapman totals, elfinley. +1! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on January 26, 2009, 04:11:48 AM
Post by: elfinley on January 26, 2009, 04:11:48 AM
That was a ugly loss, but they rebounded to beat UCSC. Wanna talk about ugly losses, UDallas lost to La Sierra today. That win for LSU cant help anyone I imagine, Chapman, UD, anyone I think.
Chapman is 15-3, 13-3 in region
Chapman is 15-3, 13-3 in region
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 26, 2009, 12:33:26 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 26, 2009, 12:33:26 PM
Quote from: elfinley on January 26, 2009, 04:11:48 AM
That was a ugly loss, but they rebounded to beat UCSC. Wanna talk about ugly losses, UDallas lost to La Sierra today. That win for LSU cant help anyone I imagine, Chapman, UD, anyone I think.
Chapman is 15-3, 13-3 in region
Chapman beat La Sierra (2-18) 69-59 on Jan. 23. The Panthers play LSU for the fourth time this season this Thursday. After that Chapman has only one more D-III game left against UC Santa Cruz (7-12) on Feb. 8. The remainder of CU's schedule is against two NAIA-1 GSAC teams, Hope International (4-12) and Vanguard (4-13), and two games against ACCA West Coast Baptist and one against USCAA Golden State Baptist, both of which are in the Pacific Christian Athletic Conference. It's almost impossible to figure out the overall records of WCBC and GSBC because neither the schools nor the PCAC report them, but one can usually assume that both are well under .500.
Chapman really had no margin for error. The loss to 5-13 UDallas is a killer.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 26, 2009, 04:03:04 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 26, 2009, 04:03:04 PM
Can't remember if it has been mention, but I am pretty sure Elms (15-1) is vying for one of the Pool B bids this season due to the new conference that has been formed. That makes it very difficult for many Pool B teams to think about a bid when Elms is playing as well as they are right now. Unless they fall apart, there really are only two bids up for grabs in Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 05:56:18 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 05:56:18 PM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on January 26, 2009, 04:03:04 PM
Can't remember if it has been mention, but I am pretty sure Elms (15-1) is vying for one of the Pool B bids this season due to the new conference that has been formed. That makes it very difficult for many Pool B teams to think about a bid when Elms is playing as well as they are right now. Unless they fall apart, there really are only two bids up for grabs in Pool B.
Yeah, but the B's should be used to that scenario - Elms is just taking the role that Maryville (TN) has traditionally occupied!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2009, 06:12:06 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 26, 2009, 06:12:06 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 26, 2009, 05:56:18 PMYes, except it is Maryville, who may be on that bubble. ;)Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on January 26, 2009, 04:03:04 PM
Can't remember if it has been mention, but I am pretty sure Elms (15-1) is vying for one of the Pool B bids this season due to the new conference that has been formed. That makes it very difficult for many Pool B teams to think about a bid when Elms is playing as well as they are right now. Unless they fall apart, there really are only two bids up for grabs in Pool B.
Yeah, but the B's should be used to that scenario - Elms is just taking the role that Maryville (TN) has traditionally occupied!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 27, 2009, 08:31:16 AM
Post by: oldchap on January 27, 2009, 08:31:16 AM
Quote from: elfinley on January 26, 2009, 04:11:48 AM
That was a ugly loss, but they rebounded to beat UCSC. Wanna talk about ugly losses, UDallas lost to La Sierra today. That win for LSU cant help anyone I imagine, Chapman, UD, anyone I think.
Chapman is 15-3, 13-3 in region
I was at the Dallas-Chapman game. Chapman, usually pretty good from 3 point range, shot a dismal 1 for 10. Their free throws didn't help either, at 20 for 29. The score was 59 to 62 with 10 seconds left. Kyle Wood, Junior guard had two good looks open 3 pointers during this time, to tie the game, but both shots rimmed out.
It was an off day for Chapman which is usually very reliable and has been very consistent this year. This goes to show that Independents have zero margin of error if they want to make it into the playoffs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 27, 2009, 04:16:28 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 27, 2009, 04:16:28 PM
Quote from: oldchap on January 27, 2009, 08:31:16 AM
I was at the Dallas-Chapman game. Chapman, usually pretty good from 3 point range, shot a dismal 1 for 10. Their free throws didn't help either, at 20 for 29. The score was 59 to 62 with 10 seconds left. Kyle Wood, Junior guard had two good looks open 3 pointers during this time, to tie the game, but both shots rimmed out.
It was an off day for Chapman which is usually very reliable and has been very consistent this year. This goes to show that Independents have zero margin of error if they want to make it into the playoffs.
Chapman is ranked 6th in D-III in 3-pt FG% at 42%. Really bad time for the Panthers to tank against 5-14 UDallas, especially when UD turned around and lost to woeful 2-19 La Sierra.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 27, 2009, 06:20:44 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 27, 2009, 06:20:44 PM
Maryville (TN) can only win out in D3 competition and see what happens. They could be 18 - 6 in region by the end of their tournament. They have lost to pretty good teams (Centre twice, Oglethorpe, Transylvania) , with a couple of exceptions (Hanover and Rust), and are finishing well.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 03:04:18 AM
Post by: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 03:04:18 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 26, 2009, 12:33:26 PM
Chapman beat La Sierra (2-18) 69-59 on Jan. 23. The Panthers play LSU for the fourth time this season this Thursday. After that Chapman has only one more D-III game left against UC Santa Cruz (7-12) on Feb. 8. The remainder of CU's schedule is against two NAIA-1 GSAC teams, Hope International (4-12) and Vanguard (4-13), and two games against ACCA West Coast Baptist and one against USCAA Golden State Baptist, both of which are in the Pacific Christian Athletic Conference. It's almost impossible to figure out the overall records of WCBC and GSBC because neither the schools nor the PCAC report them, but one can usually assume that both are well under .500.
Chapman really had no margin for error. The loss to 5-13 UDallas is a killer.
OxyBob
OB, in addition to what you mentioned, Chapman will also play a post-season tournament against, I believe, the same teams it played last weekend. But this time, instead of a round robin, it will be a sort of "Conference playoff". If Chapman manages to win its two games, I hope that the loss against UDallas will be erased, although I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee really works. The more I read about Pool B selection on this forum, the more confused I am. Some people seem to think that Chapman is a "slam dunk" for a pool B bid, but then again last year, the NCAA trumped everyone by not picking them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 10:15:47 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 10:15:47 AM
Quote from: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 03:04:18 AM
...
OB, in addition to what you mentioned, Chapman will also play a post-season tournament against, I believe, the same teams it played last weekend. But this time, instead of a round robin, it will be a sort of "Conference playoff". If Chapman manages to win its two games, I hope that the loss against UDallas will be erased, although I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee really works. The more I read about Pool B selection on this forum, the more confused I am. Some people seem to think that Chapman is a "slam dunk" for a pool B bid, but then again last year, the NCAA trumped everyone by not picking them.
Good morning Oldchap,
Pabegg's most recent run of Pool C teams does show his calculations for Pool B as well. In Games thru Jan 18th, Chapman was his third Pool B team. In his run thru games of Jan 25th, Chapman is off the chart and Catholic is the 3rd Pool B. The loss to Dallas may have done that.
I don't know if
See Post #1917 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.1917)
EDIT: Thanks NEPAfan
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: NEPAFAN on January 28, 2009, 11:08:23 AM
Post by: NEPAFAN on January 28, 2009, 11:08:23 AM
Chapman's loss to Dallas , not Catholic's. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on January 28, 2009, 11:11:32 AM
Post by: pabegg on January 28, 2009, 11:11:32 AM
By the numbers, they dropped to eighth, although 4 through 9 are essentially tied.
Pool B looks like this (with regional records):
Elms (14-1)
(a big gap)
Catholic (8-3) and Scranton (12-5)
(another gap)
Susquehanna (9-5), Daniel Webster (7-3), Northwestern (11-3), Maryville (9-6), Chapman (11-3), Becker (9-5)
If Catholic and Scranton hold serve from here on out, holding onto their 70% winning percentages, any of the bottom six will more or less need to run the table.
Pool B looks like this (with regional records):
Elms (14-1)
(a big gap)
Catholic (8-3) and Scranton (12-5)
(another gap)
Susquehanna (9-5), Daniel Webster (7-3), Northwestern (11-3), Maryville (9-6), Chapman (11-3), Becker (9-5)
If Catholic and Scranton hold serve from here on out, holding onto their 70% winning percentages, any of the bottom six will more or less need to run the table.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 28, 2009, 12:48:57 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 28, 2009, 12:48:57 PM
Quote from: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 03:04:18 AM
If Chapman manages to win its two games, I hope that the loss against UDallas will be erased, although I'm not sure how the NCAA selection committee really works.
Chapman lost to 5-14 UDallas, which then went and lost to 2-19 La Sierra. I can't think of a worse scenario for Chapman's OWP and OOWP. With so little room for error in Pool B, not only won't the UDallas loss be "erased," it'll be magnified come selection time. The Panthers' loss to 6-11 Whitman doesn't help them much either.
As for how the NCAA selection committee works: The NCAA has a 50+-page handbook consisting of excruciating minutiae, delineating exactly how the selection committee works and the criteria it uses to determine the participating teams. They announce regional rankings, pour over won-loss records and strength of schedule numbers, and cogitate long into the wee hours of the night trying to figure out which teams get into the tournament. They set up and trumpet fancy-schmancy media to announce the brackets, and then they screw it up anyway. Two years in a row! Then the D-III national committee chairman offers an insincere apology, makes some lame excuses, and blames someone else for the screw up.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2009, 01:31:11 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 28, 2009, 01:31:11 PM
Quote from: pabegg on January 28, 2009, 11:11:32 AM
By the numbers, they dropped to eighth, although 4 through 9 are essentially tied.
Pool B looks like this (with regional records):
Elms (14-1)
(a big gap)
Catholic (8-3) and Scranton (12-5)
(another gap)
Susquehanna (9-5), Daniel Webster (7-3), Northwestern (11-3), Maryville (9-6), Chapman (11-3), Becker (9-5)
If Catholic and Scranton hold serve from here on out, holding onto their 70% winning percentages, any of the bottom six will more or less need to run the table.
Circle February 14 on your calendars, Pool B watchers: Catholic @ Scranton, in the rematch of the first contest that was won by host Catholic on January 17.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2009, 03:20:57 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2009, 03:20:57 PM
If the men's committee would give us the bracket announcement show like the women's did, we'd have a fighting chance of eliminating those issues.
Plus we'd pronounce names right. :)
Plus we'd pronounce names right. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
Post by: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 28, 2009, 12:48:57 PM
Chapman lost to 5-14 UDallas, which then went and lost to 2-19 La Sierra. I can't think of a worse scenario for Chapman's OWP and OOWP. With so little room for error in Pool B, not only won't the UDallas loss be "erased," it'll be magnified come selection time. The Panthers' loss to 6-11 Whitman doesn't help them much either.
Sure, the loss to Dallas (very narrow loss, by the way) looks bad, but which team doesn't have a bad day? The loss to Whitman can be (at least partially) explained by the fact that 2 outstanding Chapman players suffered concussions in the first half of that game. These two players (Jared Kaiser, a junior starter and Jon Consani, a sophomore regular off the bench) had to sit the next 4 games due to their injuries. Freshmen and other bench players had to step up during this time and the team did extremely well, winning all subsequent games, including tough match ups against CS East Bay and current SCIAC first place holder Whittier College. This shows the depth of Chapman's team.
In addition, wouldn't the fact that Chapman plays only 6 games at home this season count for something? In other words, Chapman plays 21 of 27 games on the road this year!!
Of course, I'm biased and I'd love to see Chapman in the playoffs where they would be a very competitive team. This year, they are as good as the top teams in the SCIAC in my opinion (and demonstrated it by beating every single SCIAC team they played). I find this process terribly subjective and unfair. I just hope that the NCAA committee will make up for what some people view as an injustice for not having sent Chapman to the playoffs last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 11:27:11 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 28, 2009, 11:27:11 PM
Good evening, oldchap1
Quote from: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 11:08:42 PMThe Pool B bids are allocated at the ratio that is the average size of the Pool A conferences. In the allocation of bids, a team cannot lose a game. It is looking like the UDallas loss may be the one that they could not afford.Quote from: OxyBob on January 28, 2009, 12:48:57 PM
Chapman lost to 5-14 UDallas, which then went and lost to 2-19 La Sierra. I can't think of a worse scenario for Chapman's OWP and OOWP. With so little room for error in Pool B, not only won't the UDallas loss be "erased," it'll be magnified come selection time. The Panthers' loss to 6-11 Whitman doesn't help them much either.
Sure, the loss to Dallas (very narrow loss, by the way) looks bad, but which team doesn't have a bad day?
The way the playoffs work in D-III is that a team cannot have a bad day! Margin of victory is not a criterion.
The loss to Whitman can be (at least partially) explained by the fact that 2 outstanding Chapman players suffered concussions in the first half of that game. These two players (Jared Kaiser, a junior starter and Jon Consani, a sophomore regular off the bench) had to sit the next 4 games due to their injuries. Freshmen and other bench players had to step up during this time and the team did extremely well, winning all subsequent games, including tough match ups against CS East Bay and current SCIAC first place holder Whittier College. This shows the depth of Chapman's team.
Bad luck is part of the game. Pool B works such that teams must work thru injuries.
In addition, wouldn't the fact that Chapman plays only 6 games at home this season count for something? In other words, Chapman plays 21 of 27 games on the road this year!!
Home games are not in the criteria.
Of course, I'm biased and I'd love to see Chapman in the playoffs where they would be a very competitive team. This year, they are as good as the top teams in the SCIAC in my opinion (and demonstrated it by beating every single SCIAC team they played). I find this process terribly subjective and unfair.
In fairness to the institutions that have refined the Pools process over the last decade, have you read the NCAA handbook? The Chapman baseball teams have worked the Pool B system very efficiently. Chapman women's hoops have also earned Pool B bids.
I just hope that the NCAA committee will make up for what some people view as an injustice for not having sent Chapman to the playoffs last year.
I was a loud objecter to the Chapman "snub" last season so I understand your frustration.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2009, 12:51:14 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 29, 2009, 12:51:14 AM
You may be shouting into the wind, Ralph. I tried this very argument with him a couple weeks ago, pretty sure.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on January 29, 2009, 10:31:33 AM
Injuries are tough. The (at the time) #1 team in the country may end up missing out on the tournament altogether because of an injury to one player. I hope it doesn't happen, but things aren't looking good right now.
Chapman has such a small window through which to prove themselves there really is no margin for error or injury.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 29, 2009, 12:01:25 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 29, 2009, 12:01:25 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 28, 2009, 03:20:57 PM
If the men's committee would give us the bracket announcement show like the women's did, we'd have a fighting chance of eliminating those issues.
If you'd handled the bracket show then the 2007 Mississippi College debacle would have never happened, and last season you'd have questioned the West bracket before going public with it.
Quote from: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
Sure, the loss to Dallas (very narrow loss, by the way) looks bad, but which team doesn't have a bad day? The loss to Whitman can be (at least partially) explained by the fact that 2 outstanding Chapman players suffered concussions in the first half of that game. These two players (Jared Kaiser, a junior starter and Jon Consani, a sophomore regular off the bench) had to sit the next 4 games due to their injuries.
A bad day? In the world of college basketball that's all it takes to knock you out. Last season Cal Lutheran was 21-4, played lousy for 10 minutes against Pomona and lost, and it probably cost them a tournament berth. As for the Whitman game, Chapman has plenty of talent who can pick up the slack for the loss of Kaiser and Consani. Bottom line, they lost the game.
Quote from: oldchap on January 28, 2009, 11:08:42 PM
In addition, wouldn't the fact that Chapman plays only 6 games at home this season count for something? In other words, Chapman plays 21 of 27 games on the road this year!!
Yes, and last season CU had 13 home games. That's the life of an independent. You don't always get return games from opponents. Chapman was supposed to play Cal Lutheran at home this season, but couldn't get it scheduled. That's why the Panthers are unfortunately stuck playing La Sierra four times. Speaking of which, good luck tonight @ LSU.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 29, 2009, 06:26:33 PM
Post by: oldchap on January 29, 2009, 06:26:33 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 29, 2009, 12:01:25 PM
Speaking of which, good luck tonight @ LSU.
Thanks OB. I'm traveling so I won't be at the game, but I hope LSU doesn't pull another upset.
For all of you who posted comments regarding my comments, I want to also thank you. I can't say what you're saying makes me feel better, but at least I understand the process much better now. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2009, 06:43:13 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 29, 2009, 06:43:13 PM
Quote from: oldchap on January 29, 2009, 06:26:33 PMOldchap,Quote from: OxyBob on January 29, 2009, 12:01:25 PM
Speaking of which, good luck tonight @ LSU.
Thanks OB. I'm traveling so I won't be at the game, but I hope LSU doesn't pull another upset.
For all of you who posted comments regarding my comments, I want to also thank you. I can't say what you're saying makes me feel better, but at least I understand the process much better now. ;D
I think that I have an acceptable compromise for all of us out here west of the Mississippi.
We can give the perennial Chapman Pool B baseball bid to the Chapman Men's Basketball team. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 30, 2009, 11:43:20 AM
Post by: OxyBob on January 30, 2009, 11:43:20 AM
Quote from: oldchap on January 29, 2009, 06:26:33 PMQuote from: OxyBob on January 29, 2009, 12:01:25 PMThanks OB. I'm traveling so I won't be at the game, but I hope LSU doesn't pull another upset.
Speaking of which, good luck tonight @ LSU.
Chapman 78, La Sierra 58
Helpful hint: Someone from CU or LSU might want to call in the score so D3hoops can post it.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 30, 2009, 09:59:00 PM
Post by: RustCollege on January 30, 2009, 09:59:00 PM
So what do Rust College look like if we end the season at 16-8 for making the Playoffs
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 30, 2009, 10:28:18 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 30, 2009, 10:28:18 PM
Quote from: RustCollege on January 30, 2009, 09:59:00 PMGood evening, Rust College! Welcome to the boards! :)
So what do Rust College look like if we end the season at 16-8 for making the Playoffs
The criteria used by the selection committee relates to in-region D-III games. Here is the Rust schedule with the in-region games noted (http://www.d3hoops.com/school/RUST/mens/2009).
I count that Rust is 7-6 in South Region games.
Unfortunately, that won't be good enough.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 31, 2009, 11:40:37 AM
Post by: oldchap on January 31, 2009, 11:40:37 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 30, 2009, 11:43:20 AM
[Chapman 78, La Sierra 58
yeah, it didn't look like Chapman had much of a problem beating La Sierra yet for the 4th time, which makes the loss to Dallas that much more frustrating.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 31, 2009, 09:02:03 PM
Post by: RustCollege on January 31, 2009, 09:02:03 PM
So how many teams do they take out of the independent South Region for the playoffs
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 31, 2009, 09:05:27 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 31, 2009, 09:05:27 PM
There are not a predetermined number of teams taken out of any region for either Pool B or Pool C.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 01, 2009, 01:07:42 AM
Post by: ronk on February 01, 2009, 01:07:42 AM
Quote from: RustCollege on January 31, 2009, 09:02:03 PM
So how many teams do they take out of the independent South Region for the playoffs
Maybe he meant:
As an independent, can Rust play in that tournament of independents that Dallas, Chapman, and Neb Wes played in last year, whose winner has an increasesd chance of a Pool B bid?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 03:00:12 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 03:00:12 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 01, 2009, 01:07:42 AMHello, Ronk.Quote from: RustCollege on January 31, 2009, 09:02:03 PM
So how many teams do they take out of the independent South Region for the playoffs
Maybe he meant:
As an independent, can Rust play in that tournament of independents that Dallas, Chapman, and Neb Wes played in last year, whose winner has an increasesd chance of a Pool B bid?
Actually Rust is not in the West Region, by any criteria that I know.
I don't know any legislative hoops that need to be jumped to get either so Rust could get a Pool B bid.
I think that Pool B will be locked up a teams with won/loss records better than .750. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 01, 2009, 03:05:05 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 01, 2009, 03:05:05 PM
BTW - Scranton and CUA both took hits to their Pool B hopes this weekend.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 03:34:42 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 03:34:42 PM
Thru games of Jan 31st, Pool B teams by winning percentage of in-region games. Three bids will be awarded. Please see the Handbook (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf) for the list of criteria.
EDIT: I have included Maryville, which has 4 more regular season in-region games and a two-game GSAC tournament. It looks like the threshold for in-region winning percentage will be at or above .727 or above 16-6.
Please check the Pool C board for pabegg's computer listing for additional insights into the data.
Corrections are appreciated!
Corrections to Catholic (241 miles from Catholic to Carnegie Mellon), and to USMMA (220 miles from Kings Point to Eastern Nazarene) have been made! Thanks to pabegg! These errors were due to the "in-region" designation on Catholic's and USMMA's schedules on their pages.
| Team........................ | Conference... | Region.... | Overall... | In-Reg... | In-Reg %-age |
| 1) Elms | NECC | NEast | 17-1 | 16-1 | .941 |
| 2) Chapman | Indep | West | 16-3 | 14-3 | .824 |
| 3) Northwestern MN | UMAC | West | 15-4 | 12-3 | .800 |
| * | * | * | * | * | * |
| 4) Becker | NECC | NEast | 12-5 | 12-5 | .706 |
| 5) Catholic | LAND | MidAtl | 15-5 | 9-4 | .692 |
| 6) Susquehanna | LAND | MidAtl | 13-6 | 11-5 | .688 |
| 7) Scranton | LAND | MidAtl | 14-6 | 13-6 | .684 |
| X Maryville TN | GSAC | South | 12-6 | 10-6 | .625 |
| X) Merchant Marine | LAND | Atl | 12-8 | 11-7 | .611 |
EDIT: I have included Maryville, which has 4 more regular season in-region games and a two-game GSAC tournament. It looks like the threshold for in-region winning percentage will be at or above .727 or above 16-6.
Please check the Pool C board for pabegg's computer listing for additional insights into the data.
Corrections are appreciated!
Corrections to Catholic (241 miles from Catholic to Carnegie Mellon), and to USMMA (220 miles from Kings Point to Eastern Nazarene) have been made! Thanks to pabegg! These errors were due to the "in-region" designation on Catholic's and USMMA's schedules on their pages.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 01, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
Post by: ronk on February 01, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 03:00:12 PMQuote from: ronk on February 01, 2009, 01:07:42 AMHello, Ronk.Quote from: RustCollege on January 31, 2009, 09:02:03 PM
So how many teams do they take out of the independent South Region for the playoffs
Maybe he meant:
As an independent, can Rust play in that tournament of independents that Dallas, Chapman, and Neb Wes played in last year, whose winner has an increasesd chance of a Pool B bid?
Actually Rust is not in the West Region, by any criteria that I know.
I don't know any legislative hoops that need to be jumped to get either so Rust could get a Pool B bid.
I think that Pool B will be locked up a teams with won/loss records better than .750. :)
Ralph,
I was just noting that Dallas is in the South region like Rust and they played in that tournament last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 09:18:32 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 09:18:32 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 01, 2009, 08:25:34 PMSorry for any confusion...Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 01, 2009, 03:00:12 PMQuote from: ronk on February 01, 2009, 01:07:42 AMHello, Ronk.Quote from: RustCollege on January 31, 2009, 09:02:03 PM
So how many teams do they take out of the independent South Region for the playoffs
Maybe he meant:
As an independent, can Rust play in that tournament of independents that Dallas, Chapman, and Neb Wes played in last year, whose winner has an increasesd chance of a Pool B bid?
Actually Rust is not in the West Region, by any criteria that I know.
I don't know any legislative hoops that need to be jumped to get either so Rust could get a Pool B bid.
I think that Pool B will be locked up a teams with won/loss records better than .750. :)
Ralph,
I was just noting that Dallas is in the South region like Rust and they played in that tournament last year.
I believe that that post-season tourney is sponsored by
http://www.d3independents.org/
Rust has not participated in that group.
UDallas is in Administrative Region #4. That makes their participation in the west coast tourney "in-region"; Rust in Administrative Region #3. Finlandia is another independent in that region. That tourney does not have an AQ with it. Here is the handbook.
D-III Men's Handbook (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 02, 2009, 12:44:31 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 02, 2009, 12:44:31 AM
With respect to Ralph's list,
Catholic is 9-4 not 9-5 in-region; Carnegie Mellon was not a regional game.
Merchant Marine should be 11-7 not 12-7; I have it over 200 miles from Kings Point NY to Quincy MA (Eastern Nazarene).
Elms is so far out front that I think that they're a sure thing.
Susquehanna now leads a pack that looks like the chasers are Scranton, Becker, Catholic, Chapman, Maryville TN, and Northwestern MN, in that order.
I don't see others contending.
Catholic is 9-4 not 9-5 in-region; Carnegie Mellon was not a regional game.
Merchant Marine should be 11-7 not 12-7; I have it over 200 miles from Kings Point NY to Quincy MA (Eastern Nazarene).
Elms is so far out front that I think that they're a sure thing.
Susquehanna now leads a pack that looks like the chasers are Scranton, Becker, Catholic, Chapman, Maryville TN, and Northwestern MN, in that order.
I don't see others contending.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 02, 2009, 01:48:18 AM
Post by: ronk on February 02, 2009, 01:48:18 AM
Ralph,
I was foiled by the 4 membership regions vs. the 8 geographical regions(NE,E,Atl,MA,S,MW,C,W). So, from the handbook for in-region:
1. all competition within an institution's defined region
what is an institution's defined region?
it's not the admin region because that's defined separately under 3.
I'm sensing I asked this question last year.
I was foiled by the 4 membership regions vs. the 8 geographical regions(NE,E,Atl,MA,S,MW,C,W). So, from the handbook for in-region:
1. all competition within an institution's defined region
what is an institution's defined region?
it's not the admin region because that's defined separately under 3.
I'm sensing I asked this question last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2009, 05:07:10 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2009, 05:07:10 AM
ronk - this is the easiest way to determine in-region games.
1 - within the "region" that each team is placed in by the NCAA (NE, East, Atlantic, Mid-Atlantic, GL, South, Midwest, West)
2 - within the NCAA's administrative regions - four of these - can provide a breakdown if needed
3 - games played between teams 200 miles from one another - no matter where they play the game
1 - within the "region" that each team is placed in by the NCAA (NE, East, Atlantic, Mid-Atlantic, GL, South, Midwest, West)
2 - within the NCAA's administrative regions - four of these - can provide a breakdown if needed
3 - games played between teams 200 miles from one another - no matter where they play the game
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 02, 2009, 09:56:37 AM
Post by: ronk on February 02, 2009, 09:56:37 AM
Dmac,
Thanks, that clears it up and shows why the indy tournament(West) is in region for Dallas(via admin region 4) and not for Rust(3) even though they're in the same defined region(South).
Thanks, that clears it up and shows why the indy tournament(West) is in region for Dallas(via admin region 4) and not for Rust(3) even though they're in the same defined region(South).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2009, 02:37:44 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 04, 2009, 02:37:44 PM
Regional rankings released. We have them on our blog ready for commentary and for everyone to correct the NCAA's regional records. :)
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/04/alert-regional-rankings-released/
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/04/alert-regional-rankings-released/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 11, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/11/ncaa-regional-rankings/
Regional rankings released.
Regional rankings released.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 17, 2009, 11:40:30 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 17, 2009, 11:40:30 AM
Patrick Abegg has Scranton and Susquehanna two and three behind Elms for Pool B. How likely is it that two teams from the LAND conf. would go? I ask, of course, because Maryville (TN) is pegged as next and they should win out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 11:42:23 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 11:42:23 AM
They took two last year. There's not really a mandate to spread them out among as many conferences as possible -- that would be essentially an automatic bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Susquehanna, Maryville TN, Chapman, and Becker are essentially tied at the moment.
If one assumes that Scranton beats Susquehanna in the Landmark tournament, then one of the others would likely get in.
If Susquehanna wins out, they're in and Scranton would fall into the race for the third bid.
Becker is the wild card, as they could beat Elms in the NECC tournament and jump way up.
Elms, by the way, is in. The only question is whether they'll be in a position to host the first weekend.
If one assumes that Scranton beats Susquehanna in the Landmark tournament, then one of the others would likely get in.
If Susquehanna wins out, they're in and Scranton would fall into the race for the third bid.
Becker is the wild card, as they could beat Elms in the NECC tournament and jump way up.
Elms, by the way, is in. The only question is whether they'll be in a position to host the first weekend.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on February 17, 2009, 04:50:02 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on February 17, 2009, 04:50:02 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Susquehanna, Maryville TN, Chapman, and Becker are essentially tied at the moment.
If one assumes that Scranton beats Susquehanna in the Landmark tournament, then one of the others would likely get in.
If Susquehanna wins out, they're in and Scranton would fall into the race for the third bid.
Becker is the wild card, as they could beat Elms in the NECC tournament and jump way up.
Elms, by the way, is in. The only question is whether they'll be in a position to host the first weekend.
I thought Elms didnt have the facility to host, or am I mistaken? I think the coach was on Hoopsville a week or two ago and said they would not have the oppurtunity to host because their gym seats less than 1000. He didnt make it sound like they were looking for alternate venues either.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2009, 05:07:11 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2009, 05:07:11 PM
From what I understand from Coach Silva... they will NOT be hosting. They just don't have the specs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 05:25:05 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 05:25:05 PM
I wonder how they would accomodate them if they should host but can't. Would the committee go out of their way to send them to the weakest host or would they have to take their chances with a random draw?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2009, 05:29:06 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 17, 2009, 05:29:06 PM
From what I remember in the past... the weakest host, most likely. They don't tend to punish them by sending them to a tough opponent.
Now... they also might be considered the "home" team. This rarely happens, but the very first experience I had the NCAA tournament came in 1996... when the Goucher women's program made the tournament after losing in the CAC semifinals. They were one of three CAC teams in the NCAA tourney that year and got the chance to host fellow CACer Salisbury in the first-round only because SAL forgot to complete their NCAA hosting paperwork. SAL was considered the higher seed and thus the "home" team - in other words SAL wore thier home whites and Goucher wore their road blues at the Goucher Sports and Recreation Center.
Not sure how that may play forward to now and Elms' situation... but it might be interesting!
Now... they also might be considered the "home" team. This rarely happens, but the very first experience I had the NCAA tournament came in 1996... when the Goucher women's program made the tournament after losing in the CAC semifinals. They were one of three CAC teams in the NCAA tourney that year and got the chance to host fellow CACer Salisbury in the first-round only because SAL forgot to complete their NCAA hosting paperwork. SAL was considered the higher seed and thus the "home" team - in other words SAL wore thier home whites and Goucher wore their road blues at the Goucher Sports and Recreation Center.
Not sure how that may play forward to now and Elms' situation... but it might be interesting!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
Elms could still be the highest seed in its regional but have to go elsewhere.
Unfortunately that might mean going somewhere like Amherst. They wouldn't give the fourth-best team a hosting slot just because Elms can't. They would go to the second-best candidate next.
Unfortunately that might mean going somewhere like Amherst. They wouldn't give the fourth-best team a hosting slot just because Elms can't. They would go to the second-best candidate next.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 17, 2009, 06:21:08 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 17, 2009, 06:21:08 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Susquehanna, Maryville TN, Chapman, and Becker are essentially tied at the moment.
In your opinion, does Chapman have their fate in their own hands or is it it pretty much up to how the other teams will fare? What I mean by this is that Chapman has 2 more DIII games left to play, in the post-season independent tournament. Will it be enough for them to win both in order to get in as a Pool B bid? What are the different scenarios? Would a win (or loss) against NAIA 1 Vanguard in any way influence the NCAA committee?
One more question: in your opinion, why are Susquehanna or Scranton in front of Chapman, when Chapman garners votes in the Top 25 poll and is ranked much higher in the Massey Ratings? (BTW, I read the handbook and I know that NCAA doesn't use these measures to make decisions on who goes to the tournament. However, it is hard to understand how a better Statistical system such as Massey - compared to OWP/OOWP - cannot predict which team can make Pool B, amongst a few contenders. Even Elms in this system is lower than Chapman.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 06:22:25 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 17, 2009, 06:22:25 PM
I think Chapman plays so many non-D3 teams as to make Massey useless in comparison to the NCAA's system, which relies solely on in-region competition.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2009, 06:55:15 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 17, 2009, 06:55:15 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 17, 2009, 06:21:08 PMQuote from: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Susquehanna, Maryville TN, Chapman, and Becker are essentially tied at the moment.
In your opinion, does Chapman have their fate in their own hands or is it it pretty much up to how the other teams will fare? I think that Chapman's fate was determined by their loss to UDallas.
What I mean by this is that Chapman has 2 more DIII games left to play, in the post-season independent tournament. Will it be enough for them to win both in order to get in as a Pool B bid? As Patrick Abegg has said, a loss hurts much much more than a win helps.
What are the different scenarios? Would a win (or loss) against NAIA 1 Vanguard in any way influence the NCAA committee?
The NCAA is trying to encourage play amongst its own members. They are sponsoring the championship and they write the rules.
One more question: in your opinion, why are Susquehanna or Scranton in front of Chapman, when Chapman garners votes in the Top 25 poll and is ranked much higher in the Massey Ratings? (BTW, I read the handbook and I know that NCAA doesn't use these measures to make decisions on who goes to the tournament. However, it is hard to understand how a better Statistical system such as Massey - compared to OWP/OOWP - cannot predict which team can make Pool B, amongst a few contenders. Even Elms in this system is lower than Chapman.) D3hoops.com Top 25 is a measure of the Top 25 teams in the country in D-III. Massey is gauging the performance of the D3 teams against the other teams in the country in all classifications.
At the beginning of the season and as one who follows the Bumblin' B's, I thought that Chapman could not lose to anyone that they should not lose to. We saw the 18 games that counted in the eyes of the committee. These were the key games. A win over Whitworth might have offset one of the losses at 15-3, (W/L record versus a regionally ranked team.) UDallas is only 7-17 this season, and they may surprise some folks in the NEAC tourney. However, Chapman's 15-3 in-region is just not good enough, due to the weakness of many of their wins.
As we see the season, Chapman has one "good" loss to Whitworth and two bad losses, to Whitman and to UDallas. It is that simple. IMHO, 17-1 in-region gets a Pool B bid; 16-2 might get a Pool B bid; 15-3 doesn't.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 08:35:18 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 08:35:18 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 17, 2009, 06:21:08 PMQuote from: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Susquehanna, Maryville TN, Chapman, and Becker are essentially tied at the moment.
In your opinion, does Chapman have their fate in their own hands or is it it pretty much up to how the other teams will fare? What I mean by this is that Chapman has 2 more DIII games left to play, in the post-season independent tournament. Will it be enough for them to win both in order to get in as a Pool B bid? What are the different scenarios? Would a win (or loss) against NAIA 1 Vanguard in any way influence the NCAA committee?
One more question: in your opinion, why are Susquehanna or Scranton in front of Chapman, when Chapman garners votes in the Top 25 poll and is ranked much higher in the Massey Ratings? (BTW, I read the handbook and I know that NCAA doesn't use these measures to make decisions on who goes to the tournament. However, it is hard to understand how a better Statistical system such as Massey - compared to OWP/OOWP - cannot predict which team can make Pool B, amongst a few contenders. Even Elms in this system is lower than Chapman.)
Except for Elms, it's hard to say anything for sure about Pool B. The remaining competitors are just that indistinct. Plus, we've been fooled in the past by the committee.
I don't think that Chapman can afford another D3 loss, but even winning those last two isn't enough to guaranteed a bid. Only Scranton can guarantee a second bid by winning out.
Massey includes five wins that aren't factored into the D3 rankings, so that's one factor. Chapman's D3 schedule has been so awful (OWP rank is 398 of 401) that they just don't get much credit for winning those games.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 17, 2009, 09:03:43 PM
Post by: ronk on February 17, 2009, 09:03:43 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on February 17, 2009, 04:50:02 PMQuote from: pabegg on February 17, 2009, 12:06:17 PM
Susquehanna, Maryville TN, Chapman, and Becker are essentially tied at the moment.
If one assumes that Scranton beats Susquehanna in the Landmark tournament, then one of the others would likely get in.
If Susquehanna wins out, they're in and Scranton would fall into the race for the third bid.
Becker is the wild card, as they could beat Elms in the NECC tournament and jump way up.
Elms, by the way, is in. The only question is whether they'll be in a position to host the first weekend.
I thought Elms didnt have the facility to host, or am I mistaken? I think the coach was on Hoopsville a week or two ago and said they would not have the oppurtunity to host because their gym seats less than 1000. He didnt make it sound like they were looking for alternate venues either.
1000 seat requirement is for sectional games, not 1st or 2nd round. Mary Washington has hosted recently(women) with a gym less than 1000. They may have been accommodated to the extent of clearing the gym between games, if I remember right. Not a desirable situation, but if Elms really wants to play at home, they should apply to host.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2009, 05:17:11 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2009, 05:17:11 AM
ronk - Coach Silva has stated on Hoopsvile they aren't going to be hosting. He stated that they are under 1000 capacity and in a conversation with his AD, he is sure they are not going to get that right.
Quote: "We can't host an NCAA game."
To listen to him talk about it - click here (http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/09/hoopsville/silva020109.mp3) - http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/09/hoopsville/silva020109.mp3
Yes... the NCAA has made exceptions, but since Elms' gym can only hold about 500 and the Univ. of Mary Washington can hold 750... UMW already had the "chance"... where Elms is only halfway there. That is just too few to try and host, I suspect.
Quote: "We can't host an NCAA game."
To listen to him talk about it - click here (http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/09/hoopsville/silva020109.mp3) - http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/09/hoopsville/silva020109.mp3
Yes... the NCAA has made exceptions, but since Elms' gym can only hold about 500 and the Univ. of Mary Washington can hold 750... UMW already had the "chance"... where Elms is only halfway there. That is just too few to try and host, I suspect.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2009, 09:56:26 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 18, 2009, 09:56:26 AM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on February 18, 2009, 05:17:11 AM
ronk - Coach Silva has stated on Hoopsvile they aren't going to be hosting. He stated that they are under 1000 capacity and in a conversation with his AD, he is sure they are not going to get that right.
Quote: "We can't host an NCAA game."
Did you happen to ask about whether they were planning to host from a different local venue? They've got plenty of options there in Springfield.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2009, 10:57:38 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2009, 10:57:38 AM
He said, "unless a local school wants to let us use their gym..." which we both jokingly thought might not happen. However, that is certainly an option I am sure Elms could look into, but Coach Silva sounded more like he was preparing to hit the road.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 18, 2009, 11:14:11 AM
Post by: ronk on February 18, 2009, 11:14:11 AM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on February 18, 2009, 05:17:11 AM
ronk - Coach Silva has stated on Hoopsvile they aren't going to be hosting. He stated that they are under 1000 capacity and in a conversation with his AD, he is sure they are not going to get that right.
Quote: "We can't host an NCAA game."
To listen to him talk about it - click here (http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/09/hoopsville/silva020109.mp3) - http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/09/hoopsville/silva020109.mp3
Dmac,
I heard the show but there was no indication that Coach Silva was aware that he could host for the initial rounds with less than 1000 seats. So, if he wants to avoid a trip similar to the one he made to Gettysburg last year with few of his fans traveling, he only has a couple of days to apply.
Yes... the NCAA has made exceptions, but since Elms' gym can only hold about 500 and the Univ. of Mary Washington can hold 750... UMW already had the "chance"... where Elms is only halfway there. That is just too few to try and host, I suspect.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2009, 11:30:22 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2009, 11:30:22 AM
ronk - I took, "I have spoken to my Athletic Director" as he knows what his limitations are and the ability to host a tournament game. I personally think the 500 seat capacity is going to knock them out, anyway.
And back to the Mary Washington point, they probably had a year or two where they could have hosted and had to make concessions (they added more seats temporarily for the weekend) and had to convince the NCAA hosting was a good option. I believe the NCAA finally gave them the opportunity to host when they finally couldn't provide a reason to not let them host.
And back to the Mary Washington point, they probably had a year or two where they could have hosted and had to make concessions (they added more seats temporarily for the weekend) and had to convince the NCAA hosting was a good option. I believe the NCAA finally gave them the opportunity to host when they finally couldn't provide a reason to not let them host.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2009, 11:54:39 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2009, 11:54:39 AM
If Elms got a first-round bye they could conceivably host that second-round single game in their gym.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2009, 03:46:02 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 18, 2009, 03:46:02 PM
Regional rankings are out:
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/18/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-2-3/
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/02/18/ncaa-regional-rankings-week-2-3/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on February 23, 2009, 02:11:28 PM
Post by: elfinley on February 23, 2009, 02:11:28 PM
With CU's opponent WP, I guess we can count on another D3 tournament with no independent:
Chapman 22-3 0.880 Won 8
Rust 13-11 0.542 Lost 2
St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) 10-13 0.435 Lost 1
UC Santa Cruz 9-13 0.409 Won 2
Nebraska Wesleyan 10-15 0.400 Lost 2
North Central (Minn.) 6-12 0.333 Lost 1
Finlandia 7-14 0.333 Won 1
Lancaster Bible 8-17 0.320 Lost 2
Lincoln 8-17 0.320 Lost 1
Spalding 2-5 0.286 Won 1
Maine-Presque Isle 3-17 0.150 Lost 7
La Sierra 3-21 0.125 Lost 1
Chapman 22-3 0.880 Won 8
Rust 13-11 0.542 Lost 2
St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) 10-13 0.435 Lost 1
UC Santa Cruz 9-13 0.409 Won 2
Nebraska Wesleyan 10-15 0.400 Lost 2
North Central (Minn.) 6-12 0.333 Lost 1
Finlandia 7-14 0.333 Won 1
Lancaster Bible 8-17 0.320 Lost 2
Lincoln 8-17 0.320 Lost 1
Spalding 2-5 0.286 Won 1
Maine-Presque Isle 3-17 0.150 Lost 7
La Sierra 3-21 0.125 Lost 1
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 24, 2009, 01:23:17 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 24, 2009, 01:23:17 PM
Quote from: elfinley on February 23, 2009, 02:11:28 PM
With CU's opponent WP, I guess we can count on another D3 tournament with no independent:
Chapman 22-3 0.880 Won 8
Granted, Chapman has one of the worst OWP in the nation. However, it also has a win over a regionally ranked team (CMS) and a good overall record. At this point, we have to watch the other Pool B hopeful to see if CU even has a small chance of making it.
Here is a recent post from someone in the know. All is not lost.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2009, 03:23:38 AM
oldchap, my most recent look at the Pool B's leads me to believe that Chapman should hope that CMS finishes strong.
The strength of schedule numbers cannot be fixed, but a win over a regionally ranked team, coupled with the dissolution of all of the Landmark teams, may let Chapman in. (Pabegg has Susquehanna and Scranton quite a bit ahead of Chapman and Maryville).
You also need to watch the strong finish by Maryville. They have 2 "results" versus Centre (both losses), an in-region loss to regionally ranked Transylvania and a win over USA South leading (but currently regionally unranked) Averett. Averett could end up in the final (and unseen) regional rankings, if they run the conference table and the tourney, especially as the teams above them are picking up tourney losses. Averett is 9th of 11 in his South rankings, and at least 7 of the other 10 teams around Averett will pick up losses. Maryville's conference is relatively weak, so they aren't getting any help in OWP either.
In the West, I think you want Whitworth, Cornell, Bethel and UW EauClaire to lose early. You probably want St Thomas, Puget Sound, and the three best UW's to finish strong. I don't know if UPS can be knocked down far enough to help you. I think you want them to eliminate the competition around Whitworth, if possible.
I think that Chapman is the longest long shot of the Pool B's at this time. (I don't think that Northwestern MN has a chance either.) I honestly don't know if Whitworth has coattails to pull Chapman into Pool B.
(That Dallas loss really hurts!)
Good luck.
In fact, I'm hoping that since only one SCIAC team is going to make it to the Tournament this year, the Committee may decide, in order to minimize travel, to pit Chapman against the SCIAC winner locally, in a first round game.
I'm crossing my fingers. I'm biased of course, but I think that Chapman this year has what it takes to be competitive in the playoffs. For instance, the Massey Ratings (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2009&sub=III&mid=6) have Chapman at #34 in Division III.
A first round CMS/Chapman game would yield a 50/50 chance for CU to move on, reinforcing my opinion.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 24, 2009, 03:03:42 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 24, 2009, 03:03:42 PM
The SCIAC has virtually no chance of a Pool C team (if they do, it's CMS).
The traditional geographical rules would guarantee that Chapman would face the SCIAC winner. The "extra flight" rule that they added this year might make a difference, especially if Whitworth gets into the tournament (either as a Pool C or as an upset Pool A entrant). In this case, the NCAA might fly both Southern Cal teams to Tacoma to join the NWC teams, with a likely bracket of UPS-Chapman, CMS-Whitworth.
The traditional geographical rules would guarantee that Chapman would face the SCIAC winner. The "extra flight" rule that they added this year might make a difference, especially if Whitworth gets into the tournament (either as a Pool C or as an upset Pool A entrant). In this case, the NCAA might fly both Southern Cal teams to Tacoma to join the NWC teams, with a likely bracket of UPS-Chapman, CMS-Whitworth.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 24, 2009, 05:58:44 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 24, 2009, 05:58:44 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 24, 2009, 03:03:42 PM
The SCIAC has virtually no chance of a Pool C team (if they do, it's CMS).
The traditional geographical rules would guarantee that Chapman would face the SCIAC winner. The "extra flight" rule that they added this year might make a difference, especially if Whitworth gets into the tournament (either as a Pool C or as an upset Pool A entrant). In this case, the NCAA might fly both Southern Cal teams to Tacoma to join the NWC teams, with a likely bracket of UPS-Chapman, CMS-Whitworth.
Of course, a UPS-Chapman matchup would be more like 80/20 in favor of Puget Sound.... :(
But, hey, Chapman would have made it to the playoff for the first time at least!! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 12:44:46 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 12:44:46 AM
Quote from: elfinley on February 23, 2009, 02:11:28 PM
With CU's opponent WP, I guess we can count on another D3 tournament with no independent
If so, that would be an interminably painful streak of two consecutive years without an independent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 03:48:57 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 03:48:57 PM
Elms is #3 in the Northeast
Scranton is #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.
No other Pool B's are regionally ranked.
Scranton hosts Catholic on Feb 25th.
CMS is #7 in the West Region. I guess that Chapman is riding CMS' coattails. (Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked opponents.)
CMS is not likely to rise in the West Region standings, because there are the WIAC's and then conference leaders St Thomas, UPS and BV ahead of CMS. Whitworth is #8.
Scranton is #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.
No other Pool B's are regionally ranked.
Scranton hosts Catholic on Feb 25th.
CMS is #7 in the West Region. I guess that Chapman is riding CMS' coattails. (Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked opponents.)
CMS is not likely to rise in the West Region standings, because there are the WIAC's and then conference leaders St Thomas, UPS and BV ahead of CMS. Whitworth is #8.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 25, 2009, 05:01:24 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 25, 2009, 05:01:24 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 03:48:57 PM
Elms is #3 in the Northeast
Scranton is #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.
No other Pool B's are regionally ranked.
Scranton hosts Catholic on Feb 25th.
CMS is #7 in the West Region. I guess that Chapman is riding CMS' coattails. (Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked opponents.)
CMS is not likely to rise in the West Region standings, because there are the WIAC's and then conference leaders St Thomas, UPS and BV ahead of CMS. Whitworth is #8.
So, in your opinion, does it mean that both Elms and Scranton pretty much have a lock on a Pool B bid? If that's the case, that leaves one more spot to be filled. Which other team(s) besides Chapman would be vying for this spot and why should they be ahead (or behind) Chapman?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 25, 2009, 05:01:24 PMElms is a lock. Scranton has the "inside track" over the rest of the Landmark Pool B schools, going into the tourney.Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 03:48:57 PM
Elms is #3 in the Northeast
Scranton is #8 in the Mid-Atlantic.
No other Pool B's are regionally ranked.
Scranton hosts Catholic on Feb 25th.
CMS is #7 in the West Region. I guess that Chapman is riding CMS' coattails. (Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked opponents.)
CMS is not likely to rise in the West Region standings, because there are the WIAC's and then conference leaders St Thomas, UPS and BV ahead of CMS. Whitworth is #8.
So, in your opinion, does it mean that both Elms and Scranton pretty much have a lock on a Pool B bid? If that's the case, that leaves one more spot to be filled. Which other team(s) besides Chapman would be vying for this spot and why should they be ahead (or behind) Chapman?
Who else is vying? Any Pool B team that is currently off-the-table... Maryville TN, Susquehanna, Catholic, Northwestern MN...
I honestly don't have the "numbers" that the NCAA uses to see how far "off the table" that Chapman or any other Pool B team is.
I guess that we wait until Monday.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 25, 2009, 07:33:49 PM
Post by: OxyBob on February 25, 2009, 07:33:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
I honestly don't have the "numbers" that the NCAA uses to see how far "off the table" that Chapman or any other Pool B team is.
Chapman will be seeking to further lower its 3rd-worst-in-D-III strength of schedule (No. 399 of 401) this weekend against 3-21 La Sierra (which CU has already played 4 times) and 9-13 UC Santa Cruz in the D-III Independents Tournament to be held at La Sierra. (Yes, it's true, a 3-21 team really plays in a postseason tournament.) If Chapman gets into the NCAA playoffs with its pathetic OWP of .355, then the selection committee might as well junk SOS as one of the considered criteria because including Chapman will render SOS numbers meaningless.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 25, 2009, 07:33:49 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
I honestly don't have the "numbers" that the NCAA uses to see how far "off the table" that Chapman or any other Pool B team is.
Chapman will be seeking to further lower its 3rd-worst-in-D-III strength of schedule (No. 399 of 401) this weekend against 3-21 La Sierra (which CU has already played 4 times) and 9-13 UC Santa Cruz in the D-III Independents Tournament to be held at La Sierra. (Yes, it's true, a 3-21 team really plays in a postseason tournament.) If Chapman gets into the NCAA playoffs with its pathetic OWP of .355, then the selection committee might as well junk SOS as one of the considered criteria because including Chapman will render SOS numbers meaningless.
OxyBob
Never forget that the B's once got a team in at 13-12(?) (2007, U of Dallas?).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 08:38:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 08:38:36 PM
In 2004, not 2007.
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/UDAL/mens/2004
They were 8-2 in-region under the older in-region definitions. As you can see, they did play some decent teams en route to that 8-2.
They would've been 9-8 in-region under the current in-region definition and current Division III membership alignment.
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/UDAL/mens/2004
They were 8-2 in-region under the older in-region definitions. As you can see, they did play some decent teams en route to that 8-2.
They would've been 9-8 in-region under the current in-region definition and current Division III membership alignment.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 08:40:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 08:40:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2009, 08:25:34 PMQuote from: OxyBob on February 25, 2009, 07:33:49 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
I honestly don't have the "numbers" that the NCAA uses to see how far "off the table" that Chapman or any other Pool B team is.
Chapman will be seeking to further lower its 3rd-worst-in-D-III strength of schedule (No. 399 of 401) this weekend against 3-21 La Sierra (which CU has already played 4 times) and 9-13 UC Santa Cruz in the D-III Independents Tournament to be held at La Sierra. (Yes, it's true, a 3-21 team really plays in a postseason tournament.) If Chapman gets into the NCAA playoffs with its pathetic OWP of .355, then the selection committee might as well junk SOS as one of the considered criteria because including Chapman will render SOS numbers meaningless.
OxyBob
Never forget that the B's once got a team in at 13-12(?) (2007, U of Dallas?).
(Pat beat me.)
2004. ;)
UDallas bussed to 498 miles to Sul Ross State in Alpine TX (elevation 4475') only to lose 67-71. Sul Ross then bussed to Trinity TX where they beat TU 74-72. SRSU lost to Lawrence in OT in the Sweet 16 at UPS. (Larry U lost to national champion UWSP in OT.) UDallas was competitive that year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 25, 2009, 09:32:43 PM
Post by: Boal on February 25, 2009, 09:32:43 PM
Hello everyone!
I'm new to these boards but I am an avid D3 Hoops enthusiast and hope to be more involved in the discussion in the future. Ok with that said, I wanted to say something about Chapman's SOS and a quick response to Ralph's post just above mine.
Chapman will more than likely be 17-3 in region after this weekend and regardless of their OWP this is fairly impressive. OxyBob, in his last couple posts here, seems to be a Chapman hater and that's understandable considering this is the first year Oxy has lost to Chapman in a long time (7 years or so I believe). The fact that Chapman will go 17-3 and undefeated against SCAIC teams is a statement in and of itself. The reason their SOS is so low is because they play La Sierra 5 times. If Chapman were to only play La Sierra 1 time instead of 5 their in region record would be 13-3 and their OWP would be much, much higher. OWP is a decent gauge of the opponents strength, but when it comes to this specific case it is vastly skewed. Because Chapman beats them 5 times it drives their SOS rank through the floor and to punish someone for winning is not right.
And to respond to Ralph's post all I have to say is that maybe the committee should give Chapman a chance like they did to Dallas. They only lost 2 players last year and they have 4 returning starters from last years squad that got skipped over for no reason whatsoever. I'm not saying the committee should make up for a probable mistake it made last year, but I am saying that Chapman could and probably would be more competitive than U of Dallas was in 2004 (especially with their overall record so strong).
I'm new to these boards but I am an avid D3 Hoops enthusiast and hope to be more involved in the discussion in the future. Ok with that said, I wanted to say something about Chapman's SOS and a quick response to Ralph's post just above mine.
Chapman will more than likely be 17-3 in region after this weekend and regardless of their OWP this is fairly impressive. OxyBob, in his last couple posts here, seems to be a Chapman hater and that's understandable considering this is the first year Oxy has lost to Chapman in a long time (7 years or so I believe). The fact that Chapman will go 17-3 and undefeated against SCAIC teams is a statement in and of itself. The reason their SOS is so low is because they play La Sierra 5 times. If Chapman were to only play La Sierra 1 time instead of 5 their in region record would be 13-3 and their OWP would be much, much higher. OWP is a decent gauge of the opponents strength, but when it comes to this specific case it is vastly skewed. Because Chapman beats them 5 times it drives their SOS rank through the floor and to punish someone for winning is not right.
And to respond to Ralph's post all I have to say is that maybe the committee should give Chapman a chance like they did to Dallas. They only lost 2 players last year and they have 4 returning starters from last years squad that got skipped over for no reason whatsoever. I'm not saying the committee should make up for a probable mistake it made last year, but I am saying that Chapman could and probably would be more competitive than U of Dallas was in 2004 (especially with their overall record so strong).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 25, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 08:38:36 PM
In 2004, not 2007.
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/UDAL/mens/2004
They were 8-2 in-region under the older in-region definitions. As you can see, they did play some decent teams en route to that 8-2.
They would've been 9-8 in-region under the current in-region definition and current Division III membership alignment.
I thought it was longer ago than 2007, but from U of Dallas's website, 2007 looked like the 'correct' final record. That change in 'regional' record explains a lot. Even for the 'bumblin's', that overall record stood out like a sore thumb.
Was that the occasion for the naming of this thread? (I think so, but things more than 20 minutes ago get hazy for me. :( :-[)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 11:33:29 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 11:33:29 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 25, 2009, 09:32:43 PM
The reason their SOS is so low is because they play La Sierra 5 times. If Chapman were to only play La Sierra 1 time instead of 5 their in region record would be 13-3 and their OWP would be much, much higher.
Current Chapman OWP
.361, 399th out of 401.
Chapman OWP with just one La Sierra game instead of four
(The fifth hasn't been played yet and isn't part of the calculation)
.390, 396th out of 401.
Numbers don't coincide with your assertion, sorry.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 11:36:37 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 11:36:37 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 25, 2009, 09:32:43 PM
Because Chapman beats them 5 times it drives their SOS rank through the floor and to punish someone for winning is not right.
If you're saying that delivering five losses to La Sierra affects La Sierra's record and therefore Chapman's OWP, that's also incorrect. OWP is calculated without the results of the head-to-head games. For purposes of Chapman's OWP, La Sierra is 2-12, not 2-16.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2009, 11:59:36 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 25, 2009, 11:59:36 PM
B still looks like this:
Elms is in, way in.
Scranton is ahead of the pack.
Susquehanna, Maryville, and Chapman still have a chance.
We know that Scranton and Susquehanna will meet in the Landmark final.
If either Maryville or Chapman loses this weekend, they're gone. Otherwise they compete with the loser of the Scranton - Susquehanna game for the final spot.
Who gets in? Based on last year, who knows?
Elms is in, way in.
Scranton is ahead of the pack.
Susquehanna, Maryville, and Chapman still have a chance.
We know that Scranton and Susquehanna will meet in the Landmark final.
If either Maryville or Chapman loses this weekend, they're gone. Otherwise they compete with the loser of the Scranton - Susquehanna game for the final spot.
Who gets in? Based on last year, who knows?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 12:08:18 AM
Post by: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 12:08:18 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 25, 2009, 07:33:49 PM
If Chapman gets into the NCAA playoffs with its pathetic OWP of .355, then the selection committee might as well junk SOS as one of the considered criteria because including Chapman will render SOS numbers meaningless.
The SOS numbers ARE virtually meaningless, in my opinion. The fact that OWP is disconnected from wins and losses doesn't make sense to me. In order to determine whether a team is good or not, you have to look at which teams they beat. Unfortunately for Chapman, their schedule this year is pathetic. However, they have had at least one significant win, against a regionally ranked team, Claremont, and another decent win against Whittier, the SCIAC runner-up. This makes Chapman at least competitive in the playoffs, since probably one of these two teams is going to make the playoffs. Under the Massey ratings, Chapman is currently ranked #34 in division 3, also showing they're very competitive. It doesn't amount to anything though, because Massey counts all games, versus the NCAA which only counts in-region division 3 games. But the Massey ratings, for anyone who knows anything about mathematics, is a far superior statistical model to the very crude OWP/OOWP or even RPI.
At this point, Chapman's fate is in the hands of the NCAA committee. The system is far from perfect, but that's all we've got. I guess there's always next year. With no departing starters and some really outstanding freshmen, Chapman will be even better next year, provided the coaching staff can put together a decent schedule this time.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 12:15:13 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 12:15:13 AM
Quote from: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 12:08:18 AMQuote from: OxyBob on February 25, 2009, 07:33:49 PM
If Chapman gets into the NCAA playoffs with its pathetic OWP of .355, then the selection committee might as well junk SOS as one of the considered criteria because including Chapman will render SOS numbers meaningless.
The SOS numbers ARE virtually meaningless, in my opinion. The fact that OWP is disconnected from wins and losses doesn't make sense to me.
It makes perfect sense.
The regional winning percentage already counts your wins and losses. Why should we count that again with the strength of schedule component? That's been tried and discarded in Division III.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2009, 12:42:21 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2009, 12:42:21 AM
I was always taught you don't count the same numbers twice... your team's regional record and then taking your opponents record with games against your team considered means you are counting the same games twice.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 12:46:44 AM
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 12:46:44 AM
Quote from: Boal on February 25, 2009, 09:32:43 PM
OxyBob, in his last couple posts here, seems to be a Chapman hater and that's understandable considering this is the first year Oxy has lost to Chapman in a long time (7 years or so I believe). The fact that Chapman will go 17-3 and undefeated against SCAIC teams is a statement in and of itself.
God almighty, where do people come up with their stuff? I'm not a "Chapman hater" by any means, and I am pretty sure I can handle Chapman beating Oxy in a basketball game. I think Mike Bokosky is a good coach and he's had some good teams. One of his forwards, Justin Riley, is one of my favorite players to watch. But this season Chapman has played a really bad schedule, and CU's numbers don't merit a playoff berth. Sorry if you or oldchap don't like hearing it. Chapman beat Claremont (which only has an OWP of .468) in its first game back in November, and since then the Panthers played one really good team -- Whitworth -- and lost. Otherwise CU played no one and beat no one. Insofar as the SCIAC, they shouldn't brag too much about beating 6-19 La Verne twice, 10-15 Redlands twice, 1-24 Caltech, and 11-14 Oxy. Yes, Chapman did beat Whittier, which is 16-9. There are only 10 teams in D-III with OWPs under .400, and Chapman (.355) and Whittier (.390) are two of them, so best keep that Chapman win over Whittier quiet.
If Chapman gets in the playoffs with a .355 OWP, then all the endless talk around here about playing a competitive schedule is out the window, and next year Chapman should schedule La Sierra 7 or 8 times instead of only 4.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2009, 12:49:17 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2009, 12:49:17 AM
OB - well put! +k
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 01:16:18 AM
Post by: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 01:16:18 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 12:46:44 AM
If Chapman gets in the playoffs with a .355 OWP, then all the endless talk around here about playing a competitive schedule is out the window
I must be really thick or couldn't read through your endless sarcasms, but the last comment above is the first good point you've made. OK, so if I summarize your thoughts, the main criterion for a team to make the playoffs is a good competitive schedule. And more importantly, rewarding a bad schedule would show a bad example. Point well taken. But easier said than done, when you're an independent and most of the independents you play are perennial losers and you can't schedule Conference teams during the regular season.
I have another question for you OB, if Chapman had a perfect record (or perhaps one loss to Whitworth), would you, in your opinion, consider them for a playoff berth this year? After all, OWP doesn't change whether you win or lose...would a really bad OWP trump a really good record?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 01:23:49 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 01:23:49 AM
I would consider them in if they had a perfect record.
If they had only lost to Whitworth, I would probably also have them in. Elms has one regional loss against a not-great-but-better schedule.
I might even have them in if they lost only to Whitworth and Whitman.
If they had only lost to Whitworth, I would probably also have them in. Elms has one regional loss against a not-great-but-better schedule.
I might even have them in if they lost only to Whitworth and Whitman.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:08:49 AM
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:08:49 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2009, 11:36:37 PMQuote from: Boal on February 25, 2009, 09:32:43 PM
Because Chapman beats them 5 times it drives their SOS rank through the floor and to punish someone for winning is not right.
If you're saying that delivering five losses to La Sierra affects La Sierra's record and therefore Chapman's OWP, that's also incorrect. OWP is calculated without the results of the head-to-head games. For purposes of Chapman's OWP, La Sierra is 2-12, not 2-16.
Thanks for clarifying that Pat. It was my mistake to assume that Chapman was driving their already terrible opponents further into the ground. I'm glad to see that is not the case.
Quote from: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 12:08:18 AMQuote from: OxyBob on February 25, 2009, 07:33:49 PM
If Chapman gets into the NCAA playoffs with its pathetic OWP of .355, then the selection committee might as well junk SOS as one of the considered criteria because including Chapman will render SOS numbers meaningless.
The SOS numbers ARE virtually meaningless, in my opinion. The fact that OWP is disconnected from wins and losses doesn't make sense to me. In order to determine whether a team is good or not, you have to look at which teams they beat. Unfortunately for Chapman, their schedule this year is pathetic. However, they have had at least one significant win, against a regionally ranked team, Claremont, and another decent win against Whittier, the SCIAC runner-up. This makes Chapman at least competitive in the playoffs, since probably one of these two teams is going to make the playoffs. Under the Massey ratings, Chapman is currently ranked #34 in division 3, also showing they're very competitive. It doesn't amount to anything though, because Massey counts all games, versus the NCAA which only counts in-region division 3 games. But the Massey ratings, for anyone who knows anything about mathematics, is a far superior statistical model to the very crude OWP/OOWP or even RPI.
At this point, Chapman's fate is in the hands of the NCAA committee. The system is far from perfect, but that's all we've got. I guess there's always next year. With no departing starters and some really outstanding freshmen, Chapman will be even better next year, provided the coaching staff can put together a decent schedule this time.
I think you're absolutely right oldchap. The system is flawed but it is all we have. I don't agree with you quitting on your team already though. If they do finish 24-3 it would be hard for any committee to overlook that. And to oxybob - You mentioned all the teams Chapman beat in the SCIAC and say it's nothing to brag about beating Whittier when they have a terrible OWP as well, but I am going to have to disagree. Chapman beat every single team they played in the SCIAC regardless of their winning pct. It is not Chapman's fault all the SCIAC teams performed so poorly. All they can do is schedule as many SCIAC teams as they can early in the season and beat them as they come along. I don't know what else you would have them do Oxybob?
And finally I have another question for any of you veterans here on the B's board. Who would Chapman want to win between Scranton and Susquehanna?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
I think that the best way for Chapman to get in, is for one Landmark team (Scranton) to be so dominant that it knocks the others below Chapman (and Maryville).
Chapman would be getting the 3rd Pool B bid, behind Elms and Scranton.
(Maryville went 0-3 versus Centre, Depauw and Transylvania, all regionally ranked teams. They have a win versus USA South favorite (and unranked) Averett. Averett can pick up 3 more "in-region" wins if it wins the USA South tourney. Coupled with a loss by South Region #8 Roanoke in the ODAC tourney, Averett might be a regionally ranked team in the final (unseen) regional rankings. That would give Maryville TN a record versus regionally ranked teams of 1-3. Watch out for Maryville.)
Chapman would be getting the 3rd Pool B bid, behind Elms and Scranton.
(Maryville went 0-3 versus Centre, Depauw and Transylvania, all regionally ranked teams. They have a win versus USA South favorite (and unranked) Averett. Averett can pick up 3 more "in-region" wins if it wins the USA South tourney. Coupled with a loss by South Region #8 Roanoke in the ODAC tourney, Averett might be a regionally ranked team in the final (unseen) regional rankings. That would give Maryville TN a record versus regionally ranked teams of 1-3. Watch out for Maryville.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:53:27 AM
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:53:27 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
I think that the best way for Chapman to get in, is for one Landmark team (Scranton) to be so dominant that it knocks the others below Chapman (and Maryville).
Chapman would be getting the 3rd Pool B bid, behind Elms and Scranton.
(Maryville went 0-3 versus Centre, Depauw and Transylvania, all regionally ranked teams. They have a win versus USA South favorite (and unranked) Averett. Averett can pick up 3 more "in-region" wins if it wins the USA South tourney. Coupled with a loss by South Region #8 Roanoke in the ODAC tourney, Averett might be a regionally ranked team in the final (unseen) regional rankings. That would give Maryville TN a record versus regionally ranked teams of 1-3. Watch out for Maryville.)
So if Chapman wants that third bid an ideal scenario would be Scranton winning out (pushing Susquehanna out), Averett losing in their USA South tourney (to make sure they don't become ranked and give Maryville TN a win against a regionally ranked team) , and a small act of God on Monday. Is that the best case scenario or are there more factors?
And since Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked teams isn't that better than Maryville being 1-3 against regionally ranked teams?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 10:35:51 AM
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 10:35:51 AM
Quote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:08:49 AM
All they can do is schedule as many SCIAC teams as they can early in the season and beat them as they come along. I don't know what else you would have them do Oxybob?
Here's a sampling of D-III teams which made an appearance in Southern California this season: St. Thomas (26-0), Buena Vista (23-2), UMass-Dartmouth (23-3), Gwynedd-Mercy (21-5), Amherst (20-5), Lawrence (17-6), Carthage (15-10), Willamette (12-11), Central (13-13), Babson (13-13).
And who did Chapman schedule? Swarthmore (3-21).
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 10:46:33 AM
Post by: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 10:46:33 AM
On further review, here's how Pool B stands on Thursday morning:
Six teams are Pool B candidates, for three spots.
Elms is a certainty
Scranton is also ranked; they play Susquehanna in the Landmark final and I think the winner locks up a bid.
Maryville TN and Chapman need to win all of their games against weak opponents to contend with the Scranton/Susquehanna loser for the 3rd bid.
Becker is a wild card; if they upset Elms in the NECC tournament, they could make as good a case as anyone for #3.
Six teams are Pool B candidates, for three spots.
Elms is a certainty
Scranton is also ranked; they play Susquehanna in the Landmark final and I think the winner locks up a bid.
Maryville TN and Chapman need to win all of their games against weak opponents to contend with the Scranton/Susquehanna loser for the 3rd bid.
Becker is a wild card; if they upset Elms in the NECC tournament, they could make as good a case as anyone for #3.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2009, 12:47:32 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2009, 12:47:32 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 10:35:51 AMQuote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:08:49 AM
All they can do is schedule as many SCIAC teams as they can early in the season and beat them as they come along. I don't know what else you would have them do Oxybob?
Here's a sampling of D-III teams which made an appearance in Southern California this season: St. Thomas (26-0), Buena Vista (23-2), UMass-Dartmouth (23-3), Gwynedd-Mercy (21-5), Amherst (20-5), Lawrence (17-6), Carthage (15-10), Willamette (12-11), Central (13-13), Babson (13-13).
And who did Chapman schedule? Swarthmore (3-21).
Only six of those eleven teams are relevant to this discussion: St. Thomas, Buena Vista, Lawrence, Carthage, Willamette, and Central. The other five are, or would be, non-regional opponents for Chapman and therefore don't fit into any of the tournament criteria.
(Let's not forget that Chapman also played St. John's, Whitworth, and Whitman as well.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 01:04:04 PM
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 01:04:04 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2009, 12:47:32 PMQuote from: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 10:35:51 AMOnly six of those eleven teams are relevant to this discussion: St. Thomas, Buena Vista, Lawrence, Carthage, Willamette, and Central. The other five are, or would be, non-regional opponents for Chapman and therefore don't fit into any of the tournament criteria.Quote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:08:49 AMHere's a sampling of D-III teams which made an appearance in Southern California this season: St. Thomas (26-0), Buena Vista (23-2), UMass-Dartmouth (23-3), Gwynedd-Mercy (21-5), Amherst (20-5), Lawrence (17-6), Carthage (15-10), Willamette (12-11), Central (13-13), Babson (13-13).
All they can do is schedule as many SCIAC teams as they can early in the season and beat them as they come along. I don't know what else you would have them do Oxybob?
And who did Chapman schedule? Swarthmore (3-21).
(Let's not forget that Chapman also played St. John's, Whitworth, and Whitman as well.)
I agree that some of the teams mentioned don't fit into the primary tournament criteria (though they do fall within the secondary criteria), but that wasn't entirely the point. I overlooked St. John's, which helps Chapman's sorry ass OWP. Chapman lost to 20-5 Whitworthpirates and 9-16 Whitman.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 01:23:47 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 01:23:47 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:53:27 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
I think that the best way for Chapman to get in, is for one Landmark team (Scranton) to be so dominant that it knocks the others below Chapman (and Maryville).
Chapman would be getting the 3rd Pool B bid, behind Elms and Scranton.
(Maryville went 0-3 versus Centre, Depauw and Transylvania, all regionally ranked teams. They have a win versus USA South favorite (and unranked) Averett. Averett can pick up 3 more "in-region" wins if it wins the USA South tourney. Coupled with a loss by South Region #8 Roanoke in the ODAC tourney, Averett might be a regionally ranked team in the final (unseen) regional rankings. That would give Maryville TN a record versus regionally ranked teams of 1-3. Watch out for Maryville.)
So if Chapman wants that third bid an ideal scenario would be Scranton winning out (pushing Susquehanna out), Averett losing in their USA South tourney (to make sure they don't become ranked and give Maryville TN a win against a regionally ranked team) , and a small act of God on Monday. Is that the best case scenario or are there more factors?
And since Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked teams isn't that better than Maryville being 1-3 against regionally ranked teams?
I am not sure about that.
Quote• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
Maryville has a 6-point road loss at Transy, a 2-point home loss and a 6-point road loss to Centre and a 39-point home win over Averett.
Chapman has a 15-point loss to Whitworth at neutral Redlands and the five-point road win at CMS.
Which "results" look stronger?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 26, 2009, 01:40:18 PM
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 26, 2009, 01:40:18 PM
I thought I would chime in on this discussion and shed a little light........Chapman's schedule sucks but look at their situation. They are an independent. They could schedule all 25 of their games before Jan. 10 or 12 when the sciac starts. They play in as many tournaments as they can so they can play different opponents. They didn't schedule swarthmore, (Whittier Tournament and one of the La Sierra games was in the Whittier Tournament also) but still they played them too many times.
I Guess, here my question.......How do you know what a teams record is going to be when you schedule the games one year in advance. They have to schedule 25 games versus anyone in a conference only has to worry about 7 or so.
NO excuses......They could schedule a tougher schedule, but if they lose 5 or 6 games in a tougher schedule are they even going to get a look or are they getting the best look now with the schedule he keeps putting together. As a former chapman assistant that has bumped head with Sager and Coleman........I've been emotionally attached to this discussion and being removed from it now.....They are right and you guys in the room should listen to what they are telling you! Chapman's schedule is hindering their ability to really get a "true" playoff look, but do they have a lot of options as a west regional independent????
I Guess, here my question.......How do you know what a teams record is going to be when you schedule the games one year in advance. They have to schedule 25 games versus anyone in a conference only has to worry about 7 or so.
NO excuses......They could schedule a tougher schedule, but if they lose 5 or 6 games in a tougher schedule are they even going to get a look or are they getting the best look now with the schedule he keeps putting together. As a former chapman assistant that has bumped head with Sager and Coleman........I've been emotionally attached to this discussion and being removed from it now.....They are right and you guys in the room should listen to what they are telling you! Chapman's schedule is hindering their ability to really get a "true" playoff look, but do they have a lot of options as a west regional independent????
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on February 26, 2009, 01:49:35 PM
Post by: elfinley on February 26, 2009, 01:49:35 PM
Chapmans schedule is not good, but some games they played were out of their control.
5 games vs. La Sierra: If you check the schedule, you will see CU only has LSU scheduled twice. If you add the Round Robin tournaey in january, that would be 3 times. The first time these 2 teams played, it was in Whittier's tournament in after the new year. CU was supposed to play another D3 team, but WC for some reason could not find a team and brought in LSU late. CU wanted to play WC instead looking at the possibilty of playing LSU 5 times, but WC declined. The post-seaon tournament was supposed to have 4 teams, but Nebraska Weslyan didn't want to travel, so the tournament has 3 teams(CU, LSU, and UCSC) play each other over the next 3 days.
SCIAC: Cal Lu was supposed to be a CU opponent, but CalLu wanted to changed the date and eventually pulled out. I think they are on the schedule next year along with Pomona Pitzer too!
Bible Colleges: I am friends with one of the coaches and give him crap about them scheduling these teams, but it is hard to find regional opponents after christmas. Conference teams dont want to play during conference(Vanguard did, but probably thought that game would be easier), and there are not any other teams that would help the in-region schedule.
I am not here to bash anyone, or the teams I mentioned, I graduated from CU, always been a big CU basketball fan, a freind of one of the coaches, and send my kids to their summer camps(which are fantastic by the way. Hopefully this gives some insight to why they play who they play.
OxyBob: Dont always agree with you, but love reading your posts. Informative, passionate, and fun at times!!
5 games vs. La Sierra: If you check the schedule, you will see CU only has LSU scheduled twice. If you add the Round Robin tournaey in january, that would be 3 times. The first time these 2 teams played, it was in Whittier's tournament in after the new year. CU was supposed to play another D3 team, but WC for some reason could not find a team and brought in LSU late. CU wanted to play WC instead looking at the possibilty of playing LSU 5 times, but WC declined. The post-seaon tournament was supposed to have 4 teams, but Nebraska Weslyan didn't want to travel, so the tournament has 3 teams(CU, LSU, and UCSC) play each other over the next 3 days.
SCIAC: Cal Lu was supposed to be a CU opponent, but CalLu wanted to changed the date and eventually pulled out. I think they are on the schedule next year along with Pomona Pitzer too!
Bible Colleges: I am friends with one of the coaches and give him crap about them scheduling these teams, but it is hard to find regional opponents after christmas. Conference teams dont want to play during conference(Vanguard did, but probably thought that game would be easier), and there are not any other teams that would help the in-region schedule.
I am not here to bash anyone, or the teams I mentioned, I graduated from CU, always been a big CU basketball fan, a freind of one of the coaches, and send my kids to their summer camps(which are fantastic by the way. Hopefully this gives some insight to why they play who they play.
OxyBob: Dont always agree with you, but love reading your posts. Informative, passionate, and fun at times!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 01:58:54 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 01:58:54 PM
Quote from: Former Player/ Former Coach on February 26, 2009, 01:40:18 PMChapman's schedule is hindering their ability to really get a "true" playoff look, but do they have a lot of options as a west regional independent????
Yes, I think they could do better even with their independent status and the fact that SCIAC teams don't want to play them during the conference season.
Chapman scheduled just four games in November, which now has 16 permissible playing dates, and nine games in the first full month of the season.
The Lee Fulmer tournament is good for Chapman because it lets them pick up three games. I know when you have to schedule 25 that that is a must. But let's take that one step further -- Chapman should play in the Cactus Jam in Phoenix every year. This is a bus trip for Chapman, five hours each way, whereas almost everyone else has to fly to Phoenix. That takes a huge cost out of the trip. That is also three games, and the tournament organizers are willing to help arrange the bracket to maximize regional game opportunities. (I know this because one year they contacted me for recommendations for their bracket.) Northwest Conference teams traditionally come to this tournament. Chapman needs to play those teams.
If you are going to tie your schedule so closely to the SCIAC, well, you get what you get. Even though the SCIAC may be a little down this year compared to previous years, it has never been a spectacular league. It might be middle of the pack among the 40-some D-III conferences at its best.
Does Chapman not host one single tournament of its own outside of the independent tournaments? Chapman is not making the most of the snowbird opportunities.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 03:41:29 PM
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 03:41:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 01:23:47 PMQuote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:53:27 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
I think that the best way for Chapman to get in, is for one Landmark team (Scranton) to be so dominant that it knocks the others below Chapman (and Maryville).
Chapman would be getting the 3rd Pool B bid, behind Elms and Scranton.
(Maryville went 0-3 versus Centre, Depauw and Transylvania, all regionally ranked teams. They have a win versus USA South favorite (and unranked) Averett. Averett can pick up 3 more "in-region" wins if it wins the USA South tourney. Coupled with a loss by South Region #8 Roanoke in the ODAC tourney, Averett might be a regionally ranked team in the final (unseen) regional rankings. That would give Maryville TN a record versus regionally ranked teams of 1-3. Watch out for Maryville.)
So if Chapman wants that third bid an ideal scenario would be Scranton winning out (pushing Susquehanna out), Averett losing in their USA South tourney (to make sure they don't become ranked and give Maryville TN a win against a regionally ranked team) , and a small act of God on Monday. Is that the best case scenario or are there more factors?
And since Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked teams isn't that better than Maryville being 1-3 against regionally ranked teams?
I am not sure about that.Quote• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
Maryville has a 6-point road loss at Transy, a 2-point home loss and a 6-point road loss to Centre and a 39-point home win over Averett.
Chapman has a 15-point loss to Whitworth at neutral Redlands and the five-point road win at CMS.
Which "results" look stronger?
As far as my limited knowledge goes, the committee does not count the amount teams won or lost by... That would tell me that Chapman's 1-1 looks much better than Maryville potential 1-3.
And in my opinion Maryville at 1-3 still looks worse because Averett wasn't a ranked team when Maryville blew them out. I don't know why Maryville would be given credit for a win against a regionally ranked team when they weren't ranked at that time. Does this work retroactively? For instance lets say hypothetically Whitworth drops out of the regional rankings, would Chapman's regional record go to 1-0? Again in my limited knowledge this seems unfair. If a team is ever ranked through the entire year, even if they are ranked in the very last week, then every team they play has a greater chance of making the tournament.
I acknowledge the fact that CMS may or may not have been ranked regionally when Chapman defeated them either, but I do not know that for sure either way. If they were not ranked at the time and Chapman is being given this regionally ranked win just as Maryville (potentially) is, then they are in the same boat. No favoritism here ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on February 26, 2009, 03:43:59 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on February 26, 2009, 03:43:59 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 03:41:29 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 01:23:47 PMQuote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 02:53:27 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2009, 02:25:05 AM
I think that the best way for Chapman to get in, is for one Landmark team (Scranton) to be so dominant that it knocks the others below Chapman (and Maryville).
Chapman would be getting the 3rd Pool B bid, behind Elms and Scranton.
(Maryville went 0-3 versus Centre, Depauw and Transylvania, all regionally ranked teams. They have a win versus USA South favorite (and unranked) Averett. Averett can pick up 3 more "in-region" wins if it wins the USA South tourney. Coupled with a loss by South Region #8 Roanoke in the ODAC tourney, Averett might be a regionally ranked team in the final (unseen) regional rankings. That would give Maryville TN a record versus regionally ranked teams of 1-3. Watch out for Maryville.)
So if Chapman wants that third bid an ideal scenario would be Scranton winning out (pushing Susquehanna out), Averett losing in their USA South tourney (to make sure they don't become ranked and give Maryville TN a win against a regionally ranked team) , and a small act of God on Monday. Is that the best case scenario or are there more factors?
And since Chapman is 1-1 versus regionally ranked teams isn't that better than Maryville being 1-3 against regionally ranked teams?
I am not sure about that.Quote• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
Maryville has a 6-point road loss at Transy, a 2-point home loss and a 6-point road loss to Centre and a 39-point home win over Averett.
Chapman has a 15-point loss to Whitworth at neutral Redlands and the five-point road win at CMS.
Which "results" look stronger?
As far as my limited knowledge goes, the committee does not count the amount teams won or lost by... That would tell me that Chapman's 1-1 looks much better than Maryville potential 1-3.
And in my opinion Maryville at 1-3 still looks worse because Averett wasn't a ranked team when Maryville blew them out. I don't know why Maryville would be given credit for a win against a regionally ranked team when they weren't ranked at that time. Does this work retroactively? For instance lets say hypothetically Whitworth drops out of the regional rankings, would Chapman's regional record go to 1-0? Again in my limited knowledge this seems unfair. If a team is ever ranked through the entire year, even if they are ranked in the very last week, then every team they play has a greater chance of making the tournament.
I acknowledge the fact that CMS may or may not have been ranked regionally when Chapman defeated them either, but I do not know that for sure either way. If they were not ranked at the time and Chapman is being given this regionally ranked win just as Maryville (potentially) is, then they are in the same boat. No favoritism here ;)
Only the rankings at the time of the selection matter. Also, the d3hoops.com rankings dont matter, only the NCAA regional rankings.
Also, I dont see what is "unfair" about using the teams final record to gauge how good that team is. Just because I beat a 10-0 team in November or December doesnt mean they are a good team if they lose 10 of their last 15. It could mean they played an easy early schedule. Either way, only the final rankings the committee uses (which are not public) are what matter.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2009, 03:49:41 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 26, 2009, 03:49:41 PM
There are no rankings until February so no one was ranked before that. Those games, obviously are counted as vs regionally ranked. Only the final rankings count, and we don't see those. The first four sets of ranknings are meaningless in the eyes of the NCAA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 04:07:46 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 04:07:46 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 03:41:29 PM
As far as my limited knowledge goes, the committee does not count the amount teams won or lost by... That would tell me that Chapman's 1-1 looks much better than Maryville potential 1-3.
The handbook says "results" as quoted above. That leaves some room for leeway.
It's also worth pondering whether it's better to have played four games against regionally ranked opponents than two. What we've heard from the committee in recent years is that people are taking "results" to mean "winning percentage" and that that is not the case.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 04:11:08 PM
Post by: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 04:11:08 PM
Quote from: elfinley on February 26, 2009, 01:49:35 PM
5 games vs. La Sierra: If you check the schedule, you will see CU only has LSU scheduled twice. If you add the Round Robin tournaey in january, that would be 3 times. The first time these 2 teams played, it was in Whittier's tournament in after the new year. CU was supposed to play another D3 team, but WC for some reason could not find a team and brought in LSU late. CU wanted to play WC instead looking at the possibilty of playing LSU 5 times, but WC declined. The post-seaon tournament was supposed to have 4 teams, but Nebraska Weslyan didn't want to travel, so the tournament has 3 teams(CU, LSU, and UCSC) play each other over the next 3 days.
First off, I don't have any problem with Chapman playing La Sierra. LSU is a local in-region D-III team and CU should play them and also UC Santa Cruz, another nearby D-III team. But, let's face it, at this point LSU is little more than schedule filler, so when you agree to play LSU twice, then play them 2 more times in holiday tournaments, and then play them again in the D-III Independents Tournament, well, prepare to be criticized.
Quote from: elfinley on February 26, 2009, 01:49:35 PM
Bible Colleges: I am friends with one of the coaches and give him crap about them scheduling these teams, but it is hard to find regional opponents after christmas. Conference teams dont want to play during conference(Vanguard did, but probably thought that game would be easier), and there are not any other teams that would help the in-region schedule.
I don't have any problem with Chapman playing GSAC teams. It takes some sack for a D-III school to schedule, for instance, Concordia, Cal Baptist, Biola, or Azusa Pacific, or to play in Westmont's Tom Byron Classic, and a little less for Chapman to schedule Hope International (which is the rough equivalent of La Verne) or Vanguard (which is about the equivalent of Claremont). As for playing West Coast Baptist, again I have no problem playing them, but when you schedule two games against WCB and a game against Golden State Baptist to boot, well, prepare to be further criticized.
My impression from speaking with Coach Bokosky and others in the Chapman athletics department is that Chapman intends to get bigger, step up in class, and eventually go D-I à la Seattle U. If that's the case then the Panthers should perhaps start scheduling better teams.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on February 26, 2009, 04:32:12 PM
Post by: elfinley on February 26, 2009, 04:32:12 PM
OB,
I see your point, and I agree. Like I said before, I give my crap all the time for some of the teams they play. They do in fact need to improve their schedule and critizing in some cases, is well deserved.
I just wanted to clarify that it was not CU's intention to play such an inferior schedule. It is hard to tell what a team will be like a year from now.
I see your point, and I agree. Like I said before, I give my crap all the time for some of the teams they play. They do in fact need to improve their schedule and critizing in some cases, is well deserved.
I just wanted to clarify that it was not CU's intention to play such an inferior schedule. It is hard to tell what a team will be like a year from now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 04:37:37 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 04:37:37 PM
If Chapman's MBB program can't scrounge up enough money or ambition to take a five-hour bus trip to Phoenix, how will they get to Division I?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 05:23:05 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 26, 2009, 05:23:05 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 04:11:08 PM
I don't have any problem with Chapman playing GSAC teams. It takes some sack for a D-III school to schedule, for instance, Concordia, Cal Baptist, Biola, or Azusa Pacific, or to play in Westmont's Tom Byron Classic, and a little less for Chapman to schedule Hope International (which is the rough equivalent of La Verne) or Vanguard (which is about the equivalent of Claremont).
This is of course a matter of opinion, but I disagree with you on these points, OB. My opinion is based on my personal experience of seeing all the games this year. While Hope and Vanguard are traditionally at the bottom of the GSAC rankings, they are bigger and more athletic than all D3 teams I've seen so far. Hope isn't a La Verne. No way. I bet Hope would beat La Verne every single time they would play them. I think Hope would give a hard time to the upper echelon of the SCIAC teams such as Cal Lu. And as far as Vanguard, I couldn't disagree more. I saw both Vanguard vs. CU and Claremont vs. CU. The performance that Chapman had against Vanguard that day was exceptional and I'm not sure they could repeat it consistently. On the other hand, Claremont was hard to beat but I'm sure that Chapman could do it again, much more easily anyway. It all comes down to probabilities. In my view, Chapman had a 30% chance of beating Vanguard, while they had a 60% chance of beating CMS.
Speculation? Sure! And the Committee doesn't give a crap, I know that. But I'm sure a lot of people who were at both games would also agree with me. My point has always been, CU has the quality required to be in the playoffs this year. Whether the process gives them a chance is another story.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 05:55:45 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 05:55:45 PM
Whether their schedule makers give them a chance is the real issue, not the process.
We have this discussion seemingly every year about Chapman. They have been slow to pick up the NCAA system. It's as if they don't care.
Heck, in 2001 on Selection Sunday on Hoopsville we talked to Chapman and at 20-5, they weren't getting in and we knew it. The selection process hasn't changed much since then. And yet, here we are.
We have this discussion seemingly every year about Chapman. They have been slow to pick up the NCAA system. It's as if they don't care.
Heck, in 2001 on Selection Sunday on Hoopsville we talked to Chapman and at 20-5, they weren't getting in and we knew it. The selection process hasn't changed much since then. And yet, here we are.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 06:09:08 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 06:09:08 PM
Bottom line is simple.
With their D3 schedule, Chapman needed to go 15-3 to be in contention. That's what they got.
Elms needed 20-4. They got 23-1.
Scranton needed 18.5-6.5, they've got 19.
So both Elms and Chapman needed to go .800 to be in contention. Elms beat that and is sitting pretty. Chapman didn't beat that.
With their D3 schedule, Chapman needed to go 15-3 to be in contention. That's what they got.
Elms needed 20-4. They got 23-1.
Scranton needed 18.5-6.5, they've got 19.
So both Elms and Chapman needed to go .800 to be in contention. Elms beat that and is sitting pretty. Chapman didn't beat that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 06:25:26 PM
Post by: Boal on February 26, 2009, 06:25:26 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 06:09:08 PM
Bottom line is simple.
With their D3 schedule, Chapman needed to go 15-3 to be in contention. That's what they got.
Elms needed 20-4. They got 23-1.
Scranton needed 18.5-6.5, they've got 19.
So both Elms and Chapman needed to go .800 to be in contention. Elms beat that and is sitting pretty. Chapman didn't beat that.
I haven't taken a math class in quite some time but I'm fairly certain that 15-3 is .833 (more than likely they'll be 17-3 with a .850 winning pct after this weekend) so they did beat the .800 you said they needed to. And since Elms is 23-1 (.958) they clearly beat that as you stated. But you put Elms as number 1, Scranton is slightly number 2, but you didn't mention Maryville or Susquehanna (the other two competing with Chapman). Any response would be greatly appreciated pabegg since you're the resident guru according to D3Hoops. 8)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 06:32:13 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2009, 06:32:13 PM
Against 20 games, they need to win 17 to not be totally eliminated from the conversation.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 06:37:45 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 06:37:45 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 26, 2009, 06:25:26 PMQuote from: pabegg on February 26, 2009, 06:09:08 PM
Bottom line is simple.
With their D3 schedule, Chapman needed to go 15-3 to be in contention. That's what they got.
Elms needed 20-4. They got 23-1.
Scranton needed 18.5-6.5, they've got 19.
So both Elms and Chapman needed to go .800 to be in contention. Elms beat that and is sitting pretty. Chapman didn't beat that.
As the math guy, it's embarassing to get the math wrong. Both Chapman and Elms needed to go .833 (5 out of 6, not 4 out of 5). So Elms beat the target, Chapman met it.
Maryville needed 14 wins, which they got; I'm seeing Susquehanna as needing 17, so they're a little short at 16.
But my big point is that all of the teams except Elms were pretty much close to target. So everyone can make a case for a bid on more or less an equal basis (again, after Elms), although the Scranton/Susquehanna winner would by definition move up.
I haven't taken a math class in quite some time but I'm fairly certain that 15-3 is .833 (more than likely they'll be 17-3 with a .850 winning pct after this weekend) so they did beat the .800 you said they needed to. And since Elms is 23-1 (.958) they clearly beat that as you stated. But you put Elms as number 1, Scranton is slightly number 2, but you didn't mention Maryville or Susquehanna (the other two competing with Chapman). Any response would be greatly appreciated pabegg since you're the resident guru according to D3Hoops. 8)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 26, 2009, 10:49:36 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 26, 2009, 10:49:36 PM
I know this does not "count," but the Maryville team that lost all 6 of its games very early has not lost since they were 4 - 6 and at this point in the season would love another shot at Centre and Transy. They also have beaten 4 scholarship teams (3 NAIA and one D2). It took a while for the several key freshmen to catch on. If they get in as the "last" team, their opponent best not be too happy.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 27, 2009, 12:53:05 AM
Post by: Boal on February 27, 2009, 12:53:05 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 26, 2009, 10:49:36 PM
I know this does not "count," but the Maryville team that lost all 6 of its games very early has not lost since they were 4 - 6 and at this point in the season would love another shot at Centre and Transy. They also have beaten 4 scholarship teams (3 NAIA and one D2). It took a while for the several key freshmen to catch on. If they get in as the "last" team, their opponent best not be too happy.
You're right it doesn't count. And the 6 losses they have are about on par with the 3 losses Chapman has (hence why they are fighting for the last spot). Best case scenario for both Maryville and Chapman has to be Scranton beating Susquehanna this weekend. That would seem to secure Scranton in that second spot and let Chapman and Maryville fight in the committees eyes while Susquehanna would be limping into the discussion just losing a game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 27, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
Post by: Boal on February 27, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
Chapman demolished both teams again (La Sierra and Santa Cruz) so now they are 17-3 in D3 and 24-3 overall. I guess now they have to wait and see who wins between Scranton-Susquehanna and the results of Maryville TN.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 27, 2009, 11:32:12 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 27, 2009, 11:32:12 PM
It gets weirder and weirder. Maryville earlier beat both Hampden-Sydney and Virginia Wesleyan, who today beat Roanoke and Randolph-Macon in the ODAC tournament. Then DePauw lost. All the losers were ranked in the South Region. If Maryville wins tomorrow, they could wind up ranked in the region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2009, 03:55:52 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2009, 03:55:52 PM
Elms crushed Becker, 105-76, removing Becker from the mix for Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 28, 2009, 04:57:50 PM
Post by: OxyBob on February 28, 2009, 04:57:50 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 27, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
Chapman demolished both teams again (La Sierra and Santa Cruz) so now they are 17-3 in D3 and 24-3 overall.
Congratulations to Chapman for racking up 5 wins this season against 3-22 La Sierra. That's 21% of CU's 24 wins. How impressive.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 06:37:57 PM
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 06:37:57 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 28, 2009, 04:57:50 PMQuote from: Boal on February 27, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
Chapman demolished both teams again (La Sierra and Santa Cruz) so now they are 17-3 in D3 and 24-3 overall.
Congratulations to Chapman for racking up 5 wins this season against 3-22 La Sierra. That's 21% of CU's 24 wins. How impressive.
OxyBob
Whoa! I thought you said you weren't a Chapman hater Oxybob... I'm fairly sure that post wasn't too long ago...
Quote from: OxyBob on February 26, 2009, 12:46:44 AMQuote from: Boal on February 25, 2009, 09:32:43 PM
OxyBob, in his last couple posts here, seems to be a Chapman hater and that's understandable considering this is the first year Oxy has lost to Chapman in a long time (7 years or so I believe). The fact that Chapman will go 17-3 and undefeated against SCAIC teams is a statement in and of itself.
God almighty, where do people come up with their stuff? I'm not a "Chapman hater" by any means, and I am pretty sure I can handle Chapman beating Oxy in a basketball game. I think Mike Bokosky is a good coach and he's had some good teams. One of his forwards, Justin Riley, is one of my favorite players to watch. But this season Chapman has played a really bad schedule, and CU's numbers don't merit a playoff berth. Sorry if you or oldchap don't like hearing it. Chapman beat Claremont (which only has an OWP of .468) in its first game back in November, and since then the Panthers played one really good team -- Whitworth -- and lost. Otherwise CU played no one and beat no one. Insofar as the SCIAC, they shouldn't brag too much about beating 6-19 La Verne twice, 10-15 Redlands twice, 1-24 Caltech, and 11-14 Oxy. Yes, Chapman did beat Whittier, which is 16-9. There are only 10 teams in D-III with OWPs under .400, and Chapman (.355) and Whittier (.390) are two of them, so best keep that Chapman win over Whittier quiet.
If Chapman gets in the playoffs with a .355 OWP, then all the endless talk around here about playing a competitive schedule is out the window, and next year Chapman should schedule La Sierra 7 or 8 times instead of only 4.
OxyBob
Oh yeah I found it. There it is. It is one thing to be for a team and argue their case, but it is completely different to come in here and hate on a team for personal reasons. And by the way Chapman beat teams that finished first and second in the SCIAC regardless of their winning pct. That is their local guaranteed competition and they won, every single time.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2009, 06:51:54 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2009, 06:51:54 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 28, 2009, 04:57:50 PMQuote from: Boal on February 27, 2009, 09:21:03 PM
Chapman demolished both teams again (La Sierra and Santa Cruz) so now they are 17-3 in D3 and 24-3 overall.
Congratulations to Chapman for racking up 5 wins this season against 3-22 La Sierra. That's 21% of CU's 24 wins. How impressive.
OxyBob
I second Boal on this one, OB. You made some good rational and objective points earlier, but now your sarcasms are getting kind of old. I think everyone got your point. Are you bored because your team is at the beach right now?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2009, 06:58:26 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2009, 06:58:26 PM
Maryville beat Huntingdon 101 - 89.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 07:02:34 PM
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 07:02:34 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 28, 2009, 06:58:26 PM
Maryville beat Huntingdon 101 - 89.
Thanks for the update scottiedoug. Now Maryville and Chapman are waiting on the winner of the Scranton-Susquehanna game. For their sake lets hope that Scranton wins, secures the second pool B bid, and basically pushes Susquehanna out of the picture. A two horse race is much easier to win than a three horse.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2009, 07:07:47 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2009, 07:07:47 PM
yep
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smcmfan on February 28, 2009, 07:21:19 PM
Post by: smcmfan on February 28, 2009, 07:21:19 PM
what is a pool b?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2009, 07:23:58 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2009, 07:23:58 PM
Quote from: smcmfan on February 28, 2009, 07:21:19 PM
what is a pool b?
FAQ (http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=28)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on February 28, 2009, 07:36:09 PM
Post by: dahlby on February 28, 2009, 07:36:09 PM
Yes, Chapman does have a real scheduling problem . I am surprised that their OWP and OOWP are as high as they are, especially since they played UCSC and La Sierra as often as they did. If you want to further slam, talk about another eight games they played.....oops, can't talk about that, as they were 8-0 against the SCIAC . Maybe their % should be dropped as well. I see where Occy played Chapman only once, but had room for a couple of games against L.S.,Cal Lu couldn't fit in Chapman but could schedule L.S. twice, while Pomona was busy playing Hope and L.S. Yep, gotta play those tough NAIA teams and newcomer L.S. to keep those OWP and OOWP high and not schedule that weak Chapman team. Maybe Oxy Bob could do a little homework and find out why Chapman has a scheduling problem with the SCIAC teams. I don't remember who said it, but someone once called the Chapman team the SCIAC co-champs in baseball or something. Does that mean that they are the SCIAC champs for basketball and get that sought after automatic bid that the SCIAC so much deserves because it is such a tough conference and schedules all the really tough teams.
I do not comment much on these D3 boards, but really enjoy the factual opinions that are made from the majority of the posters. The "I THINKS" without the proper back up knowledge is playground, and appears to me that it is just trying to get to someone's nerves.
Good luck to the SCIAC champ, whoever it will be, in the national tourney. Represent So Cal well, we are pulling for you.
Anyone notice spring practice is almost here for football?
I do not comment much on these D3 boards, but really enjoy the factual opinions that are made from the majority of the posters. The "I THINKS" without the proper back up knowledge is playground, and appears to me that it is just trying to get to someone's nerves.
Good luck to the SCIAC champ, whoever it will be, in the national tourney. Represent So Cal well, we are pulling for you.
Anyone notice spring practice is almost here for football?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 09:28:17 PM
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 09:28:17 PM
Scranton over Susquehanna in OT 80-75. Great game on the radio. Great job by the radio announcers too.
Probable picks now for Pool B (in my limited knowledge)
1) Elms
2) Scranton
3) Chapman, Maryville TN, and a limping Susquehanna
Probable picks now for Pool B (in my limited knowledge)
1) Elms
2) Scranton
3) Chapman, Maryville TN, and a limping Susquehanna
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 09:34:45 PM
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 09:34:45 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 28, 2009, 03:55:52 PM
Elms crushed Becker, 105-76, removing Becker from the mix for Pool B.
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 09:28:17 PM
Scranton over Susquehanna in OT 80-75. Great game on the radio. Great job by the radio announcers too.
Probable picks now for Pool B (in my limited knowledge)
1) Elms
2) Scranton
3) Chapman, Maryville TN, and a limping Susquehanna
I figured I'd ask for our expert pabegg's advice on his projections now that Maryville has won their game this weekend, Chapman won theirs, and Scranton now defeated Susquehanna. My post just above this may have been too presumptuous so I'm looking for some back up pabegg ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2009, 10:08:45 PM
Post by: pabegg on February 28, 2009, 10:08:45 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 09:28:17 PMFor the moment, I'd agree. I'd do one more run on the numbers later but I can't see any obvious distinction among the last three.
Scranton over Susquehanna in OT 80-75. Great game on the radio. Great job by the radio announcers too.
Probable picks now for Pool B (in my limited knowledge)
1) Elms
2) Scranton
3) Chapman, Maryville TN, and a limping Susquehanna
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:27:55 PM
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:27:55 PM
Quote from: pabegg on February 28, 2009, 10:08:45 PMQuote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 09:28:17 PMFor the moment, I'd agree. I'd do one more run on the numbers later but I can't see any obvious distinction among the last three.
Scranton over Susquehanna in OT 80-75. Great game on the radio. Great job by the radio announcers too.
Probable picks now for Pool B (in my limited knowledge)
1) Elms
2) Scranton
3) Chapman, Maryville TN, and a limping Susquehanna
Great thanks for the quick response pabegg. Now I'm not too familiar with the traveling rules/restrictions for the opening rounds of the tournament but I have heard that this does play some role in selection. Can anyone clarify how this works for me?
For example an earlier post, I believe by pabegg, said something to the effect of a possible match-up of Chapman vs Puget Sound and Claremont vs Whitworth where both SoCal teams would fly up to Washington for one reason or another. It seems like for financial reasons it would make better sense to have the SoCal teams play each other and the Washington teams play one another in this hypothetical situation.
So again any clarification on how the locale of the teams plays into selection and match-ups would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2009, 10:30:58 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2009, 10:30:58 PM
Boal,
Supposedly, at least, geography does not enter in to selection, only placement.
Supposedly, at least, geography does not enter in to selection, only placement.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2009, 10:41:09 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2009, 10:41:09 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:27:55 PM
Great thanks for the quick response pabegg. Now I'm not too familiar with the traveling rules/restrictions for the opening rounds of the tournament but I have heard that this does play some role in selection. Can anyone clarify how this works for me?
For example an earlier post, I believe by pabegg, said something to the effect of a possible match-up of Chapman vs Puget Sound and Claremont vs Whitworth where both SoCal teams would fly up to Washington for one reason or another. It seems like for financial reasons it would make better sense to have the SoCal teams play each other and the Washington teams play one another in this hypothetical situation.
So again any clarification on how the locale of the teams plays into selection and match-ups would be greatly appreciated.
Location does not play a role in selection. A team is judged worthy or unworthy of a tournament bid based upon how it did on the hardwood, not upon its zip code.
There are no two-team matchups in the opening weekend of the tourney. That is to say, you won't have Team A playing at Team B in the opening round, while Team C plays at Team D, with the winners squaring off on Saturday in the gym of the higher seed. The first two rounds are conducted as either four-team pods (of which there are twelve) or three-team pods (of which there are four).
In the four-team pods, all four teams play in one gym on Friday night, with the #3 and #2 teams squaring off in the opener and the #4 and #1 teams playing in the nightcap, in the #1 team's home gym. The two winners play on Saturday in the #1 team's gym, even if the #1 team is upset by the #4 team on Friday.
In the three-team pod, #3 plays #2 in the #2 team's gym on Thursday, with the winner traveling to play #1 in the #1 team's gym on Saturday.
Because of the unique travel problems posed by the isolation of the two West Coast leagues, it's possible that the SCIAC and NWC will be part of a three-team pod, even if the #1 team in the pod (which will undoubtedly be Puget Sound) would not normally be worthy of a first-round bye. That's the concession to economics that the D3 tourney has to make every year: reduce airline expenditures wherever possible.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:55:04 PM
Post by: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:55:04 PM
Great information to know Greg thanks. I wonder if the tournament would turn this west coast pod into a "4-teamer" if Chapman does win that last bid. I wonder if Pomona wins (in the next couple of hours) and Claremont grabs an at large bid and then Whitworth wins and Puget Sound grabs an at large bid... What would happen to Chapman in the selection committees eyes? What if they deemed Chapman to be the deserving team of that last pool B bid, but they already have 4 teams in the West (2 from tournament wins and 2 at large bids) would Chapman go somewhere else to play? Would they leave Chapman out and give another team the last bid because they saw the other West teams as more fit than Chapman?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2009, 11:42:15 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2009, 11:42:15 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:55:04 PM
Great information to know Greg thanks. I wonder if the tournament would turn this west coast pod into a "4-teamer" if Chapman does win that last bid. I wonder if Pomona wins (in the next couple of hours) and Claremont grabs an at large bid and then Whitworth wins and Puget Sound grabs an at large bid... What would happen to Chapman in the selection committees eyes? What if they deemed Chapman to be the deserving team of that last pool B bid, but they already have 4 teams in the West (2 from tournament wins and 2 at large bids) would Chapman go somewhere else to play? Would they leave Chapman out and give another team the last bid because they saw the other West teams as more fit than Chapman?
As I understand from previous posts, there will be no pool C at large bid for SCIAC teams. If Pomona wins, they go to the tournament as a Pool A pick. CMS doesn't have a strong enough schedule and record to compete for an Pool C bid. They would also probably drop off Regional rankings, which would probably kill Chapman's chances at that point anyway. Trust me, I'm rooting for CMS right now, and it seems they're doing OK so far (34-25 10:45 left in the 2nd)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2009, 11:43:01 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2009, 11:43:01 PM
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:55:04 PM
Great information to know Greg thanks. I wonder if the tournament would turn this west coast pod into a "4-teamer" if Chapman does win that last bid.
That would depend upon the outcome of the NWC tournament championship game currently in progress.
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:55:04 PMI wonder if Pomona wins (in the next couple of hours) and Claremont grabs an at large bid
That won't happen. Neither CMS nor PP will get a Pool C bid. It's win-or-die time in the SCIAC tourney championship game, since that league will only have one representative in the tournament.
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:55:04 PMand then Whitworth wins and Puget Sound grabs an at large bid... What would happen to Chapman in the selection committees eyes? What if they deemed Chapman to be the deserving team of that last pool B bid, but they already have 4 teams in the West (2 from tournament wins and 2 at large bids) would Chapman go somewhere else to play? Would they leave Chapman out and give another team the last bid because they saw the other West teams as more fit than Chapman?
As I said in my last post, Boal, location has nothing to do with selection. Chapman will not be denied a bid if it earns one, simply because it's an awkward travel fit. I'll say it again: Bids are determined by what a team does on the hardwood, not by the team's zip code.
There won't be more than four West Coast teams in the tournament. There could be three. And there may only be two -- Puget Sound and the SCIAC rep.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 12:01:40 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 12:01:40 AM
Maryville has won 16 straight, after losing close games (2 on the road) to Centre (still playing for the SCAC title) and Transylvania (going to the tournament) and they beat VA Wesleyan (playing for the ODAC crown) and Averett (USA South champs). Chapman beat and played who? Susquehanna has 7 in-region losses.
I know that all this matters little in the criteria analysis, but if they want a team on a roll to represent the Bumblers well, Maryville is a nice fit.
I know that all this matters little in the criteria analysis, but if they want a team on a roll to represent the Bumblers well, Maryville is a nice fit.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2009, 12:04:29 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2009, 12:04:29 AM
It does look a lot better for Maryville today than it did yesterday.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 01, 2009, 12:10:46 AM
Post by: ronk on March 01, 2009, 12:10:46 AM
Quote from: Boal on February 28, 2009, 10:55:04 PM
Great information to know Greg thanks. I wonder if the tournament would turn this west coast pod into a "4-teamer" if Chapman does win that last bid. I wonder if Pomona wins (in the next couple of hours) and Claremont grabs an at large bid and then Whitworth wins and Puget Sound grabs an at large bid... What would happen to Chapman in the selection committees eyes? What if they deemed Chapman to be the deserving team of that last pool B bid, but they already have 4 teams in the West (2 from tournament wins and 2 at large bids) would Chapman go somewhere else to play? Would they leave Chapman out and give another team the last bid because they saw the other West teams as more fit than Chapman?
According to the handbook, Pool B selections are made before Pool C so selection for Chapman would not be affected by at-large(Pool C) selections.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:16:36 AM
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:16:36 AM
Whitworth wins over UPS. Claremont over Pomona.
I would think that both results would help Chapman.
I would think that both results would help Chapman.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 12:20:53 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 12:20:53 AM
Quote from: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:16:36 AMYes, but Maryville has a "result" against the HCAC winner Transylvania, two "results" versus Centre which is in the SCAC finals, a win over Averett (the USA South Winner and a team that might be in the final unpublished regional rankings), and a win over VWC which is in the ODAC finals.
Whitworth wins over UPS. Claremont over Pomona.
I would think that both results would help Chapman.
Maryville's resume has just gotten very impressive!
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2009
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:23:02 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:23:02 AM
Last year the bracket's geography would've been helped by the committee putting Chapman in instead of Moravian. Seeing as the committee did not do that last year, I think it's fair to say that there is no way geography is a part of the selection process.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:28:52 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:28:52 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 12:01:40 AM
Maryville has won 16 straight, after losing close games (2 on the road) to Centre (still playing for the SCAC title) and Transylvania (going to the tournament) and they beat VA Wesleyan (playing for the ODAC crown) and Averett (USA South champs). Chapman beat and played who? Susquehanna has 7 in-region losses.
I know that all this matters little in the criteria analysis, but if they want a team on a roll to represent the Bumblers well, Maryville is a nice fit.
16 straight is a great accomplishment, but Chapman won 16 straight two years ago and didn't even get a second look because of some key losses early in the season which Maryville also seems to have.
Chapman this year has won 10 in a row and 20 out of their last 21. Maryville's last 21 games leaves them with a record of 17-4 including a blow out loss to sub-par IND school Rust.
As for who Chapman has beat and played... They beat Claremont who is the SCIAC champion and going to the tournament, they beat every single other SCIAC team they played with no exceptions, and they beat everyone they were supposed to beat with 2 exceptions in very, very close games.
Their regionally ranked opponents were Claremont and Whitworth. Chapman beat Claremont and lost to Whitworth. And on that note, Whitworth just won the NWC defeating previously undefeated (in D3) Puget Sound...
Chapman's one regional loss was to a team who just won the NWC by beating an undefeated team... I'd say that's a quality loss if there is such a thing.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:36:46 AM
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:36:46 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 12:20:53 AM
Yes, but Maryville has a "result" against the HCAC winner Transylvania, two "results" versus Centre which is in the SCAC finals, a win over Averett (the USA South Winner and a team that might be in the final unpublished regional rankings), and a win over VWC which is in the ODAC finals.
Maryville's resume has just gotten very impressive!
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2009
I know it's somewhat irrelevant, but according to the Massey Ratings, Chapman currently (2/27) stands at 30 while Maryville stands at 77.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2009&sub=III&mid=6
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:37:45 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:37:45 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 12:20:53 AMQuote from: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:16:36 AMYes, but Maryville has a "result" against the HCAC winner Transylvania, two "results" versus Centre which is in the SCAC finals, a win over Averett (the USA South Winner and a team that might be in the final unpublished regional rankings), and a win over VWC which is in the ODAC finals.
Whitworth wins over UPS. Claremont over Pomona.
I would think that both results would help Chapman.
Maryville's resume has just gotten very impressive!
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2009
See I'm very skeptical about this "results" thing going around. You shouldn't get any recognition for playing and losing to a team. And I think the committee agrees with me on this issue because last year Chapman had a "result" against 23-0 Plattsburg, a "result" against regionally ranked Oxy, two "results" against Cal Lu, a "result" against regionally ranked Whitworth and a "result" against PomonaPitzer. All of these "results" gave Chapman a 2-4 record against regionally ranked opponents... No games were blow outs so that's not an excuse as a 'bad' or 'poor' result. Yet Chapman missed the playoffs last year...
2-4 last year for Chapman sounds a lot better than 1-4 for Maryville this year. And I think the selection committee is only impressed if you win those games, not that you played them closely.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2009, 12:43:28 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2009, 12:43:28 AM
Quote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:37:45 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 12:20:53 AMQuote from: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:16:36 AMYes, but Maryville has a "result" against the HCAC winner Transylvania, two "results" versus Centre which is in the SCAC finals, a win over Averett (the USA South Winner and a team that might be in the final unpublished regional rankings), and a win over VWC which is in the ODAC finals.
Whitworth wins over UPS. Claremont over Pomona.
I would think that both results would help Chapman.
Maryville's resume has just gotten very impressive!
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2009
See I'm very skeptical about this "results" thing going around. You shouldn't get any recognition for playing and losing to a team. And I think the committee agrees with me on this issue because last year Chapman had a "result" against 23-0 Plattsburg, a "result" against regionally ranked Oxy, two "results" against Cal Lu, a "result" against regionally ranked Whitworth and a "result" against PomonaPitzer. All of these "results" gave Chapman a 2-4 record against regionally ranked opponents... No games were blow outs so that's not an excuse as a 'bad' or 'poor' result. Yet Chapman missed the playoffs last year...
2-4 last year for Chapman sounds a lot better than 1-4 for Maryville this year. And I think the selection committee is only impressed if you win those games, not that you played them closely.
The Chapman vs. Plattsburgh State game was irrelevant last season, since the two schools are not in the same region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:46:36 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:46:36 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2009, 12:43:28 AMQuote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:37:45 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 12:20:53 AMQuote from: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 12:16:36 AMYes, but Maryville has a "result" against the HCAC winner Transylvania, two "results" versus Centre which is in the SCAC finals, a win over Averett (the USA South Winner and a team that might be in the final unpublished regional rankings), and a win over VWC which is in the ODAC finals.
Whitworth wins over UPS. Claremont over Pomona.
I would think that both results would help Chapman.
Maryville's resume has just gotten very impressive!
http://www.d3hoops.com/school/MVLT/mens/2009
See I'm very skeptical about this "results" thing going around. You shouldn't get any recognition for playing and losing to a team. And I think the committee agrees with me on this issue because last year Chapman had a "result" against 23-0 Plattsburg, a "result" against regionally ranked Oxy, two "results" against Cal Lu, a "result" against regionally ranked Whitworth and a "result" against PomonaPitzer. All of these "results" gave Chapman a 2-4 record against regionally ranked opponents... No games were blow outs so that's not an excuse as a 'bad' or 'poor' result. Yet Chapman missed the playoffs last year...
2-4 last year for Chapman sounds a lot better than 1-4 for Maryville this year. And I think the selection committee is only impressed if you win those games, not that you played them closely.
The Chapman vs. Plattsburgh State game was irrelevant last season, since the two schools are not in the same region.
Ok I'm sorry, I guess they were 2-3 against regionally ranked teams in their region. That would prove my case even further though, 2-3 is much better than a possible 1-4.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:56:10 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:56:10 AM
Last year isn't this year, either.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:59:53 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 12:59:53 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:56:10 AM
Last year isn't this year, either.
Also a great point. 2-3 last year might not have been good enough (obviously in the selection committees eyes it wasn't), and possibly 1-4 this year is.
But I don't see how 1-4 this year can be even remotely close to Chapman's 1-1 against Claremont and Whitworth (who just beat previously undefeated Puget Sound).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 01:18:09 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 01:18:09 AM
The language results on the front end encourages coaches to schedule hard games.
It is much easier to see in baseball where there are frequently three-game series and DH's. A coach that has a 28-10 regional record but is 5-9 versus regionally ranked teams has given the committee more information than a coach who scheduled safely and went 35-4, but was only 2-1 versus regionally ranked opponents.
It is much easier to see in baseball where there are frequently three-game series and DH's. A coach that has a 28-10 regional record but is 5-9 versus regionally ranked teams has given the committee more information than a coach who scheduled safely and went 35-4, but was only 2-1 versus regionally ranked opponents.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:34:03 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:34:03 AM
Boal, once again, the handbook does not say "winning percentage against regionally ranked teams," it says "results against regionally ranked teams."
Tis better to have played and lost than never to have played at all.
Tis better to have played and lost than never to have played at all.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 01:40:31 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 01:40:31 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:34:03 AM
Boal, once again, the handbook does not say "winning percentage against regionally ranked teams," it says "results against regionally ranked teams."
Tis better to have played and lost than never to have played at all.
I know and I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but that can't possibly mean what you guys are implying it means. If that were the case every team in America would try to schedule the top 25 teams in their region and roll the dice. There is no way that a team should get in with a .500 record even if their SOS is number 1. If you can't win the majority of your games no matter who you play you don't deserve to be going to the playoffs. Am I all alone on this side of the argument?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
Are we guessing the 3 Pool Bs are:
Scranton from the Landmark
Maryville (TN) from GSAC
Chapman (independent)
Scranton from the Landmark
Maryville (TN) from GSAC
Chapman (independent)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:46:04 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:46:04 AM
Quote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 01:40:31 AM
There is no way that a team should get in with a .500 record even if their SOS is number 1. If you can't win the majority of your games no matter who you play you don't deserve to be going to the playoffs. Am I all alone on this side of the argument?
You're twisting the argument beyond all recognition.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:46:48 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:46:48 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 01, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
Are we guessing the 3 Pool Bs are:
Scranton from the Landmark
Maryville (TN) from GSAC
Chapman (independent)
Don't forget Elms at the top of that list.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 01:47:08 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 01:47:08 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 01, 2009, 01:44:40 AM
Are we guessing the 3 Pool Bs are:
Scranton from the Landmark
Maryville (TN) from GSAC
Chapman (independent)
No we know Elms and Scranton are in.
We are debating Maryville and Chapman since Susquehanna is slightly behind them since they just lost today.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:46:04 AMQuote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 01:40:31 AM
There is no way that a team should get in with a .500 record even if their SOS is number 1. If you can't win the majority of your games no matter who you play you don't deserve to be going to the playoffs. Am I all alone on this side of the argument?
You're twisting the argument beyond all recognition.
I apologize if I am, but that is the impression you're leaving me with.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:53:07 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:53:07 AM
No, you're taking it and overreacting, and frankly, I don't have the time to debate someone who's going to distort off the deep end.
Nobody here is talking about putting a team with a .500 winning percentage in the tournament. We're talking about 17-3 vs. 16-6 vs. 16-7, three teams within two games of each other if you were looking at standings and one that played a significantly easier schedule to get to that record.
Nobody here is talking about putting a team with a .500 winning percentage in the tournament. We're talking about 17-3 vs. 16-6 vs. 16-7, three teams within two games of each other if you were looking at standings and one that played a significantly easier schedule to get to that record.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2009, 01:56:18 AM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 01, 2009, 01:56:18 AM
Sometimes I forget what conferences are Pool B. I knew that the Landmark (grace period) and the GSAC (4 teams) were Pool Bs...I failed to realize the NECC (what reason?) was also Pool B eligible.
Could this be the year we see a Pool B eligible team get a Pool C?
Elms
Scanton
Maryville
Chapman
I guess Maryville and Chapman aren't even regionally ranked, so probably not.
Could this be the year we see a Pool B eligible team get a Pool C?
Elms
Scanton
Maryville
Chapman
I guess Maryville and Chapman aren't even regionally ranked, so probably not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:58:03 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:58:03 AM
The NECC is new, like the Landmark was last year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 02:04:37 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 02:04:37 AM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 01, 2009, 01:56:18 AMOld school, with the losses in the South Region Maryville might end up regionally ranked in the final rankings.
Sometimes I forget what conferences are Pool B. I knew that the Landmark (grace period) and the GSAC (4 teams) were Pool Bs...I failed to realize the NECC (what reason?) was also Pool B eligible.
Could this be the year we see a Pool B eligible team get a Pool C?
Elms
Scanton
Maryville
Chapman
I guess Maryville and Chapman aren't even regionally ranked, so probably not.
They played Transy (HCAC champ), Centre twice (SCAC finals vs Southwestern), the USAC Champ Averett (beating them by 39 points), beat VWC (ODAC finals) and HSC (ODAC Semis). At 16-6, they might end up regionally ranked.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 02:05:24 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 02:05:24 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:53:07 AM
No, you're taking it and overreacting, and frankly, I don't have the time to debate someone who's going to distort off the deep end.
Nobody here is talking about putting a team with a .500 winning percentage in the tournament. We're talking about 17-3 vs. 16-6 vs. 16-7, three teams within two games of each other if you were looking at standings and one that played a significantly easier schedule to get to that record.
I don't mean to distort it at all and I apologize if I am, but that's how it seems. When you throw out the term results it sounds like you get recognition for playing more games against good teams regardless of how you win or lose. And if that is the case then teams should play the worst 13 teams in their region go 13-0 and play the best 10 teams in their region and possibly go 3-7. Would that generate enough buzz with the committee? Let's take a hypothetical situation and say that happened this year with University of Makebelieve. At 16-7 with 3-7 against regionally ranked teams be enough to push out Chapman and Maryville and Susquehanna?
This is an honest hypothetical so I can understand the system better, and I know it looks like snotty sarcasm but I assure you it is not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Maybe -- with that kind of record against regionally ranked teams you would be bound to have a good OWP. It would also be three wins against regionally ranked teams, which is more than the one any of the three teams on the proverbial board for the last Pool B slot this year could claim.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 02:14:16 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 02:14:16 AM
Baol, you are even losing me now.
The hypothetical gets lost on the fact that we don't see that happening.
Chapman may have ended up with that, and it comes down to the fact that Chapman should not have lost the UDallas game. Instead of 13-0 in your hypothetical, Chapman was 12-1!
I saw UDallas play twice. They lost by two points to Wells in the NEAC semis today. Wells also has similar OWP. Chapman needed to beat UDallas. They did not, and I think that Maryville gets the 3rd Pool B because of that.
The hypothetical gets lost on the fact that we don't see that happening.
Chapman may have ended up with that, and it comes down to the fact that Chapman should not have lost the UDallas game. Instead of 13-0 in your hypothetical, Chapman was 12-1!
I saw UDallas play twice. They lost by two points to Wells in the NEAC semis today. Wells also has similar OWP. Chapman needed to beat UDallas. They did not, and I think that Maryville gets the 3rd Pool B because of that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 02:31:48 AM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 02:31:48 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Maybe -- with that kind of record against regionally ranked teams you would be bound to have a good OWP. It would also be three wins against regionally ranked teams, which is more than the one any of the three teams on the proverbial board for the last Pool B slot this year could claim.
Ok see now I am getting the hang of how this whole thing works. As said in an earlier post this is a flawed system but it is the one we are handed so everyone should deal accordingly.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 02:14:16 AM
Baol, you are even losing me now.
The hypothetical gets lost on the fact that we don't see that happening.
Chapman may have ended up with that, and it comes down to the fact that Chapman should not have lost the UDallas game. Instead of 13-0 in your hypothetical, Chapman was 12-1!
I saw UDallas play twice. They lost by two points to Wells in the NEAC semis today. Wells also has similar OWP. Chapman needed to beat UDallas. They did not, and I think that Maryville gets the 3rd Pool B because of that.
And LOL Ralph I'm sorry if that last one was confusing I knew it was going to be. You seemed to have gotten the gist of it though. I agree Chapman should not have lost to U of D, but they did win out from there on to get their name in tossed in the fray.
The point I was trying to make with the hypothetical situation is that the system can be worked. It seems like Maryville and Chapman played the game very similar ways, but the dice fell and it turned up snake eyes for Chapman (playing La Sierra on accident 3 extra times is snake eyes). But does that mean that Maryville is a better team? Their league is absolutely abysmal just as Chapman's schedule was, the only difference is a few teams in their region happened to lose this week and Chapman's region held strong and performed how it should have (with the exception of the last game between Puget Sound and Whitworth which actually seems to look back favorably upon Chapman).
I guess all Chapman can do at this point is say their Hail Mary's and pray the committee views the two teams criterion as equal and on par with each other. From there they can move down the list of qualifications and see Chapman is the stronger team that would perform stronger in the tournament.
By the way, I know it's not listed as one of the 5 steps to determine whether or not a team makes playoffs, but does the selection committee ever look at stats? Like the fact that Chapman has the number one defense in the country?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:38:48 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:38:48 AM
I don't think Chapman and Maryville "played the game" the same way at all.
What does it mean to have "the No. 1 defense" against the No. 399 schedule?
What does it mean to have "the No. 1 defense" against the No. 399 schedule?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fritzdis on March 01, 2009, 03:04:32 AM
Post by: fritzdis on March 01, 2009, 03:04:32 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:11:26 AM
Maybe -- with that kind of record against regionally ranked teams you would be bound to have a good OWP.
I was bored enough to look at the NE region (the only one with 10 ranked teams) to examine this extreme hypothetical:
I believe the 10 teams in the last ranking finish the season with an average in-region winning % of .811 (Middlebury and Amhert will combine to go 1-1). If Bowdoin is replaced by say UNE, the average would go to .830. If Amherst loses and is replaced, it probably won't have much impact on the average, so I'll use .830 for the 10 ranked teams.
For the sake of the hypothetical, I assumed overall winning % = regional winning % to find the "worst" 13 teams in the region (I exlcuded Maine Presque-Isle and Lesley). The average winning % for these 13 teams is .201.
In this scenario, the OWP would be .474.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 03:51:17 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 03:51:17 AM
http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/09/projected.htm
Our projections are up.
Our projections are up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on March 01, 2009, 12:02:41 PM
Post by: OxyBob on March 01, 2009, 12:02:41 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 02:14:16 AM
I saw UDallas play twice. They lost by two points to Wells in the NEAC semis today. Wells also has similar OWP. Chapman needed to beat UDallas. They did not, and I think that Maryville gets the 3rd Pool B because of that.
Plus after Chapman lost to UDallas, Chapman's whipping boy La Sierra beat UD, which magnifies CU's loss to now-we-don't-get-in-the-playoffs proportions.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2009, 12:24:22 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2009, 12:24:22 PM
Boal - another thing you have to consider, which you don't seem to be doing, Maryville went out and played more challenging teams and got results than Chapman. Chapman put in a home-and-home with La Sierra, whether they knew they were playing them three more times or not. Chapman should consider playing a lot more games in the beginning of the season against SCIAC and other conference teams so they don't run into a scheduling problems at this time of the year with no team to play except La Sierra. Sure... it means less games in February, but it means a better regional schedule in the eyes of the NCAA (since they look at the ENTIRE season and not just January and February).
Plain and simple, Chapman's schedule would leave it to believe that they shouldn't have had three regional losses... and probably should have had ONLY one! They have the third worst SOS in the nation and you are trying to argue that they will be getting hosed if they don't make the tourney. Yet, with that SOS... if they are really as good as some people are trying to argue... thier record should have been FAR better.
If Chapman makes the tourney this season, I think we will all be scratching our heads like we did last year with Moravian!
Plain and simple, Chapman's schedule would leave it to believe that they shouldn't have had three regional losses... and probably should have had ONLY one! They have the third worst SOS in the nation and you are trying to argue that they will be getting hosed if they don't make the tourney. Yet, with that SOS... if they are really as good as some people are trying to argue... thier record should have been FAR better.
If Chapman makes the tourney this season, I think we will all be scratching our heads like we did last year with Moravian!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
Even on a bad day, an at-large team should still beat U.Dallas.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 12:48:24 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 12:48:24 PM
Maryville lost two games it should not have lost (Rust, Hanover) and I think the young team learned some things about the importance of focus (team MVP did not play at Rust). Even though it is hard to build a D3 schedule as an independent in the Southeast (especially since good teams do not seem to want to visit Maryville...two home games before January), Coach Lambert did play some teams that traditionally are strong, and I hope that is rewarded. Maybe Chapman will come to Tennessee and show us how good they are next year. Maryville is trying to build a Thanksgiving tournament.
If Maryville gets in, the team and coaches know it was a dice roll because of the bad start.
If Maryville gets in, the team and coaches know it was a dice roll because of the bad start.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2009, 01:16:57 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2009, 01:16:57 PM
There is no point in Chapman playing Maryville... it won't count!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2009, 01:32:11 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 01, 2009, 01:32:11 PM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 01, 2009, 01:16:57 PM
There is no point in Chapman playing Maryville... it won't count!
If they were again going head-to-head for the final B, I'm sure the selectors would find a way to count it. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 01:35:58 PM
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 01:35:58 PM
I think Maryville should get in but that rust game was harder then what u think if da team MVP would have played it would have been da same results a lose
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 12:48:24 PM
Maryville lost two games it should not have lost (Rust, Hanover) and I think the young team learned some things about the importance of focus (team MVP did not play at Rust). Even though it is hard to build a D3 schedule as an independent in the Southeast (especially since good teams do not seem to want to visit Maryville...two home games before January), Coach Lambert did play some teams that traditionally are strong, and I hope that is rewarded. Maybe Chapman will come to Tennessee and show us how good they are next year. Maryville is trying to build a Thanksgiving tournament.
If Maryville gets in, the team and coaches know it was a dice roll because of the bad start.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2009, 01:37:31 PM
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2009, 01:37:31 PM
"Chapman should consider playing a lot more games in the beginning of the season against SCIAC and other conference teams so they don't run into a scheduling problems at this time of the year with no team to play except La Sierra."
Chapman has tried to play more SCIAC's during that time span(Nov, and Dec), but SCIAC's are not as willing at times. I said before in my last post CU had a scheduled game vs. Cal Lu this year but Cal Lu pulled out because they did'nt want to play on that day.
CU would be willing to play all SCIAC's every year, twice even. CU even suggested that they play the same week teams played Cal Tech, but they turned that down as well.
Please do not think Chapman has not tried. They have tried hard to improve their schedule and are planning more tournamnets of their own.
Chapman has tried to play more SCIAC's during that time span(Nov, and Dec), but SCIAC's are not as willing at times. I said before in my last post CU had a scheduled game vs. Cal Lu this year but Cal Lu pulled out because they did'nt want to play on that day.
CU would be willing to play all SCIAC's every year, twice even. CU even suggested that they play the same week teams played Cal Tech, but they turned that down as well.
Please do not think Chapman has not tried. They have tried hard to improve their schedule and are planning more tournamnets of their own.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 01:53:04 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 01:53:04 PM
I see in the projections, Maryville topped Chapman.
What was the key factor in this decision?
I hear everyone screaming about the UDallas lost, but I can't believe that one game is a big enough factor to remove Chapman from the playoffs. Sure their SOS isn't very good, but a complete sweep of the SCIAC and winning 21 of the last 22 games seems pretty impressive too. Not to mention, Chapman went undefeated at home (6-0) and on the road (12-0). Their three loses came at neutral sites. (Cal Tech-Whitworth, Redlands-Whitman, and Santa Cruz-Dallas)
What was the key factor in this decision?
I hear everyone screaming about the UDallas lost, but I can't believe that one game is a big enough factor to remove Chapman from the playoffs. Sure their SOS isn't very good, but a complete sweep of the SCIAC and winning 21 of the last 22 games seems pretty impressive too. Not to mention, Chapman went undefeated at home (6-0) and on the road (12-0). Their three loses came at neutral sites. (Cal Tech-Whitworth, Redlands-Whitman, and Santa Cruz-Dallas)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:57:52 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:57:52 PM
It is when it's a bad loss and you only have a limited number of in-region games to begin with. Everyone keeps trying to minimize that loss and you can't just ignore it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 02:02:10 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 02:02:10 PM
I'm not saying ignore it, but what I am saying is that I feel there is too much of an emphasis on the loss. I completely agree Chapman should have beat Dallas, but the ball didn't roll their way. The issue I have is the fact that this loss means Chapman can't compete in the tournament. With a 24-3 record, I just don't understand how a team isn't "good enough" to play on the big stage. It doesn't add up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2009, 02:16:35 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2009, 02:16:35 PM
First off... 24-3 isn't their actual record in the eyes of the NCAA... it's 17-3.
Secondly... they swept the bottom half of the SCIAC... with all below-.500 records.
Thirdly... they beat the teams in the SCIAC that are better than U-Dallas, why wouldn't that game be a focus?
Fourthly... EVERY game in region counts... not just the ones that should be ignored.
Fifthly... since all the regional games are counted... then when comparing Chapman to other teams... that bad loss will come up in conversation.
Secondly... they swept the bottom half of the SCIAC... with all below-.500 records.
Thirdly... they beat the teams in the SCIAC that are better than U-Dallas, why wouldn't that game be a focus?
Fourthly... EVERY game in region counts... not just the ones that should be ignored.
Fifthly... since all the regional games are counted... then when comparing Chapman to other teams... that bad loss will come up in conversation.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 02:23:01 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 02:23:01 PM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 01, 2009, 02:16:35 PM
First off... 24-3 isn't their actual record in the eyes of the NCAA... it's 17-3.
Secondly... they swept the bottom half of the SCIAC... with all below-.500 records.
Thirdly... they beat the teams in the SCIAC that are better than U-Dallas, why wouldn't that game be a focus?
Fourthly... EVERY game in region counts... not just the ones that should be ignored.
Fifthly... since all the regional games are counted... then when comparing Chapman to other teams... that bad loss will come up in conversation.
Last time I checked, CMS has a record of 21-6 and Whittier has 16-10 record. Not to mention, CMS won the SCIAC last night finished 11-3 in conference, while Whittier went 10-4 in league play. So if those are both below .500 records, we must speak a different language of math.
Once again, I am not saying the UDallas lost shouldn't be a factor, what I AM saying is that this game has an extreme emphasis! It should be a topic of conversation, but not a sole factor on comparing Chapman to other teams. From what I have read, that is what you and everyone else is doing!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
It's hard to have a rational discussion with biased observers. It's unfortunate you lost to Dallas, a 9-18 team. Why could so many teams beat Dallas and Chapman not?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 03:17:18 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 03:17:18 PM
You know what, guys?
You picked Chapman as a Pool B last year and you were wrong. So, chances are, you pick Maryville this year and you may be wrong.
I think that we can all argue until we're blue on the face, but this will not remove the fact that the process is flawed. The Massey Ratings use a much better statistical approach to determining a team's strength and right now Chapman is #30 while Maryville is #77 (#28 and #50 if you use MOV). I know it' irrelevant to the selection process, but it just proves that Chapman is a better team. End of story.
Now, we'll just sit back and relax and just hope that the NCAA committee screws up the selection by picking Chapman, just like they screwed it up last year by not picking Chapman. :D
You picked Chapman as a Pool B last year and you were wrong. So, chances are, you pick Maryville this year and you may be wrong.
I think that we can all argue until we're blue on the face, but this will not remove the fact that the process is flawed. The Massey Ratings use a much better statistical approach to determining a team's strength and right now Chapman is #30 while Maryville is #77 (#28 and #50 if you use MOV). I know it' irrelevant to the selection process, but it just proves that Chapman is a better team. End of story.
Now, we'll just sit back and relax and just hope that the NCAA committee screws up the selection by picking Chapman, just like they screwed it up last year by not picking Chapman. :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:14:18 PM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:14:18 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
It's hard to have a rational discussion with biased observers. It's unfortunate you lost to Dallas, a 9-18 team. Why could so many teams beat Dallas and Chapman not?
They didn't win because their guards went a combined 3-31 that game. Their posts carried them up to the last shot of the game which happened to miss. So one bad shooting game, specifically one shot, is keeping a team that is 24-3 out of the playoffs and probably letting a team 20-6 in... It is another sad day in D3Hoops. This should be about who is the better team not who had a bad day against another team. Plus, I really don't get why the Maryville team isn't getting the heat for getting blown out by Rust just like Chapman is getting the heat from U of D. Again I know that supposedly the amount you win or lose by isn't counted, but you guys keep saying "results" so that makes me think it is.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:19:07 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:19:07 PM
You should be able to beat U of Dallas on a bad night if you want to make the NCAA Tournament.
Rather than deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere, let's look right back at a Chapman schedule which didn't give the team a chance if it lost more than two games.
BTW, Rust has a winning record. Dallas, not even close.
Rather than deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere, let's look right back at a Chapman schedule which didn't give the team a chance if it lost more than two games.
BTW, Rust has a winning record. Dallas, not even close.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:23:40 PM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
Even on a bad day, an at-large team should still beat U.Dallas.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:19:07 PM
You should be able to beat U of Dallas on a bad night if you want to make the NCAA Tournament.
Rather than deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere, let's look right back at a Chapman schedule which didn't give the team a chance if it lost more than two games.
BTW, Rust has a winning record. Dallas, not even close.
Wrong. Bring any team to a neutral site and let their guards shoot 3-31 and see if they fair any better. It was a poor shooting night, not a show of how good or bad the team is overall.
With that kind of logic no upsets would ever happen in college basketball. That's why you play the game, sometimes the ball goes in and sometimes it doesn't. Following that argument would lead anyone to believe every at large team would beat every mediocre team in America. Completely and utterly not true.
And Dallas would give Rust a run for their money, guaranteed. Since we're all so big on SOS here, Dallas has a better SOS and that could very well be why they are 9-18. If they played Rust's schedule who knows?! Maybe they would do better than 13-11.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:24:59 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:24:59 PM
Quote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:23:40 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
Even on a bad day, an at-large team should still beat U.Dallas.Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:19:07 PM
You should be able to beat U of Dallas on a bad night if you want to make the NCAA Tournament.
Rather than deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere, let's look right back at a Chapman schedule which didn't give the team a chance if it lost more than two games.
BTW, Rust has a winning record. Dallas, not even close.
Wrong. Bring any team to a neutral site and let their guards shoot 3-31 and see if they fair any better. It was a poor shooting night, not a show of how good or bad the team is overall.
Doesn't matter. You gotta win that game. I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on March 01, 2009, 04:26:17 PM
Post by: sac on March 01, 2009, 04:26:17 PM
This has got to be the longest running conversation about a Pool B team ever.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:30:46 PM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:30:46 PM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2009, 04:26:17 PM
This has got to be the longest running conversation about a Pool B team ever.
It's the longest I've seen in the past 3 years, but I think that's because there is such a split between people who believe Chapman is better than Maryville and people who think one game should keep a great team out of the playoffs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 04:43:45 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 04:43:45 PM
Quote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:30:46 PMWell we McMurry fans saw a heart-breaking loss to arch-rival Mississippi College yesterday. Tied at 80 with 21 seconds left. MC hit 2 FT's. It was over! Final 85-80!Quote from: sac on March 01, 2009, 04:26:17 PM
This has got to be the longest running conversation about a Pool B team ever.
It's the longest I've seen in the past 3 years, but I think that's because there is such a split between people who believe Chapman is better than Maryville and people who think one game should keep a great team out of the playoffs.
I hope that one game doesn't keep McMurry out of the playoffs! :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 04:54:53 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 04:54:53 PM
Just to be clear. I think Rust is a good team...I saw them at Maryville...and I know that they are tough in their own gym. My point was not to be disrespectful of Rust.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 01, 2009, 05:13:00 PM
Post by: ronk on March 01, 2009, 05:13:00 PM
Are Maryville men a Pool B because their GSAC only has 4 teams, but the women are Pool A because they have 7 teams? I was surprised to see the women in the NCAA projection when they weren't one of the 3 Pool B selections.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 05:14:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 05:14:26 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 01, 2009, 05:13:00 PMYes.
Are Maryville men a Pool B because their GSAC only has 4 teams, but the women are Pool A because they have 7 teams? I was surprised to see the women in the NCAA projection when they weren't one of the 3 Pool B selections.
The GSAC became a Pool A (Women's) conference about 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
U Dallas couldn't beat rust on a bad nite
Quote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:23:40 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
Even on a bad day, an at-large team should still beat U.Dallas.Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:19:07 PM
You should be able to beat U of Dallas on a bad night if you want to make the NCAA Tournament.
Rather than deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere, let's look right back at a Chapman schedule which didn't give the team a chance if it lost more than two games.
BTW, Rust has a winning record. Dallas, not even close.
Wrong. Bring any team to a neutral site and let their guards shoot 3-31 and see if they fair any better. It was a poor shooting night, not a show of how good or bad the team is overall.
With that kind of logic no upsets would ever happen in college basketball. That's why you play the game, sometimes the ball goes in and sometimes it doesn't. Following that argument would lead anyone to believe every at large team would beat every mediocre team in America. Completely and utterly not true.
And Dallas would give Rust a run for their money, guaranteed. Since we're all so big on SOS here, Dallas has a better SOS and that could very well be why they are 9-18. If they played Rust's schedule who knows?! Maybe they would do better than 13-11.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 05:29:10 PM
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 05:29:10 PM
Rust tryed 2 play them but they won't play rust 4 sum reason
Quote from: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 05:26:53 PM
U Dallas couldn't beat rust on a bad niteQuote from: Boal on March 01, 2009, 04:23:40 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 12:27:20 PM
Even on a bad day, an at-large team should still beat U.Dallas.Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:19:07 PM
You should be able to beat U of Dallas on a bad night if you want to make the NCAA Tournament.
Rather than deflecting and trying to place blame elsewhere, let's look right back at a Chapman schedule which didn't give the team a chance if it lost more than two games.
BTW, Rust has a winning record. Dallas, not even close.
Wrong. Bring any team to a neutral site and let their guards shoot 3-31 and see if they fair any better. It was a poor shooting night, not a show of how good or bad the team is overall.
With that kind of logic no upsets would ever happen in college basketball. That's why you play the game, sometimes the ball goes in and sometimes it doesn't. Following that argument would lead anyone to believe every at large team would beat every mediocre team in America. Completely and utterly not true.
And Dallas would give Rust a run for their money, guaranteed. Since we're all so big on SOS here, Dallas has a better SOS and that could very well be why they are 9-18. If they played Rust's schedule who knows?! Maybe they would do better than 13-11.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 05:32:15 PM
Post by: RustCollege on March 01, 2009, 05:32:15 PM
MC and Chapman r both good but both need 2 go
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 05:56:22 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 05:56:22 PM
VA Wesleyan, who Maryville beat, has won the ODAC tournament.
There are a lot of reasons I can think of why some schools will not play Rust. One of them is that they are hard to beat in Holly Springs. I wish more D3 schools would schedule Rust.
There are a lot of reasons I can think of why some schools will not play Rust. One of them is that they are hard to beat in Holly Springs. I wish more D3 schools would schedule Rust.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 06:06:17 PM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 06:06:17 PM
My hope is that the committee sees Maryville's 1-3 (or 1-4) regionally ranked record and that tells them they can't compete with upper eschelon teams, but Chapman's 1-1 with the loss to Whitworth (who beat undefeated Puget Sound) shows they can be competitive and make a push in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on March 01, 2009, 06:07:22 PM
Post by: Former Player/ Former Coach on March 01, 2009, 06:07:22 PM
I have to side with Pat on this one!!! I follow chapman as I live here in so. cal, but until the upgrade their schedule, they need to go pretty much undefeated in regional games, to get a bid. Its pretty simple how to improve the situation, look at what the girls do. They must have a pretty good formula. Trips to the northwest almost every year. Lewis & Clark have a tournament in oakland, whitworth played games in hawaii and there is the cactus jam. Do the math, if you only play the sciac, 1/2 of your games will be against teams that end up with a losing record......then add la sierra, ucsc and udallas. they all have had losing records the past 7 or 8 years. AT SOME POINT, you have to try and stop repeating history........this conversation happens every year with the same result. Chapman has had some great teams.....some 20 points better than this one and they didn't get in. Look it up, Pat will agree. They had chapman in the tournament before and the committee thought otherwise. Don't come down on him for speaking the truth. I'm Out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 06:17:55 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 06:17:55 PM
It is simple, Chapman doesn't get much respect and that is that. If Chapman wins games by playing a weaker schedule, they will be blamed for scheduling weak teams. if they schedule good teams, and lose, they will be looked at as not being very good. It is clear some people don't want to answer question, by dismissing them with saying "Doesn't matter. You gotta win the game". If Chapman makes it what surprise, if they don't, it won't be anything new. Unless Chapman goes undefeated, they will never have a chance. Let's hope they can join a league sometime in the next 5-10 years to have a chance. I am done arguing the point, the results will be out Monday. If Maryville goes, good luck to them. But if history repeats itself and they end up like Morovian did last year, I will question the committee's selection process. Best of luck to whoever makes it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 06:28:18 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 06:28:18 PM
Exuse me, I mispelled Moravian.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 06:57:13 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 06:57:13 PM
Wiz, no offense but the 10th time the question gets asked, you're going to get a short reply.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 07:00:21 PM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 07:00:21 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 06:57:13 PM
Wiz, no offense but the 10th time the question gets asked, you're going to get a short reply.
I don't think asking a question 10 times is a problem if you get 1 unreasonable answer over and over (Dallas).
When I was a kid a guy pulled a quarter from my ear and I asked how. He said magic, so I asked again over and over. Was it dumb of me to keep asking because it was an unreasonable answer?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
Post by: elfinley on March 01, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
This is really getting out of hand.
One group will never be convinced Chapman is worthy of a birth this year, and the other group will never be convinced the process of selecting teams is fair. Truth is, both sides are right! The process could be better, but until CU's schedule improves, they have very little margin of error in their games in order to make it. This conversation is getting very old.
I think we all appreciate everyone's passion for this but lets all just agree to disagree and wish all teams hoping for a pool b bid(Chapman included) good luck.
One group will never be convinced Chapman is worthy of a birth this year, and the other group will never be convinced the process of selecting teams is fair. Truth is, both sides are right! The process could be better, but until CU's schedule improves, they have very little margin of error in their games in order to make it. This conversation is getting very old.
I think we all appreciate everyone's passion for this but lets all just agree to disagree and wish all teams hoping for a pool b bid(Chapman included) good luck.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 01, 2009, 07:58:01 PM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 01, 2009, 07:58:01 PM
It's unfortunate that Chapman is on a geographical island but that is the hand they have been dealt. If Chapman won every game that they were supposed to win which includes Dallas then they wouldn't be in this discussion because most would consider Chapman better than Maryville. In their position they have to win every game they are supposed to win. They lost to Dallas so now they are looking at the real possibility of staying home in March. You have to win those easy games. Its the same way for teams battling for a Pool C spot. If you don't have a guaranteed spot you can't afford to slip up against an easy team.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 01, 2009, 07:58:01 PM
If Chapman won every game that they were supposed to win which includes Dallas then they wouldn't be in this discussion because most would consider Chapman better than Maryville.
Agreed 100%. That would put them at 19-1 in-region and we would not be talking about them like this.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on March 01, 2009, 08:21:27 PM
Post by: sac on March 01, 2009, 08:21:27 PM
still?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 08:59:29 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 08:59:29 PM
I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but something's bothering me about the Chapman issue. For all the people "in the know" here, why did Chapman get some votes for the Top 25 rankings in both the official d3hoops.com poll (week 12, they garnered 17 points, putting them at #30) and the poster's poll (they are also ranked #30), while Maryville is nowhere to be found?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 01, 2009, 09:48:47 PM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 01, 2009, 09:48:47 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 08:59:29 PM
I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but something's bothering me about the Chapman issue. For all the people "in the know" here, why did Chapman get some votes for the Top 25 rankings in both the official d3hoops.com poll (week 12, they garnered 17 points, putting them at #30) and the poster's poll (they are also ranked #30), while Maryville is nowhere to be found?
Because at the end of the Top 25 and the Posters Poll aren't worth the paper they are printed on when it comes to making the NCAA Tournament. The committee doesn't look at the polls so they are worthless to use when trying to decide who is going to be in the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 10:06:45 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 10:06:45 PM
Quote from: elfinley on March 01, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
This is really getting out of hand.
One group will never be convinced Chapman is worthy of a birth this year, and the other group will never be convinced the process of selecting teams is fair. Truth is, both sides are right! The process could be better, but until CU's schedule improves, they have very little margin of error in their games in order to make it. This conversation is getting very old.
I think we all appreciate everyone's passion for this but lets all just agree to disagree and wish all teams hoping for a pool b bid(Chapman included) good luck.
Fair enough. The decision comes out tomorrow and we will all see what the committee decided. Good luck to whoever makes it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 10:17:11 PM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 10:17:11 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 10:06:45 PMQuote from: elfinley on March 01, 2009, 07:31:08 PM
This is really getting out of hand.
One group will never be convinced Chapman is worthy of a birth this year, and the other group will never be convinced the process of selecting teams is fair. Truth is, both sides are right! The process could be better, but until CU's schedule improves, they have very little margin of error in their games in order to make it. This conversation is getting very old.
I think we all appreciate everyone's passion for this but lets all just agree to disagree and wish all teams hoping for a pool b bid(Chapman included) good luck.
Fair enough. The decision comes out tomorrow and we will all see what the committee decided. Good luck to whoever makes it.
The Wiz is a quitter to our cause lol
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 10:50:39 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 10:50:39 PM
chapmans not in the picture. it is between Susquehanna and Maryville and based on the fact Maryville playhs 20 games against high school jv teams, Susquehanna should go.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 10:55:57 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 10:55:57 PM
Quote from: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 10:50:39 PMWelcome to the boards, susidad.
chapmans not in the picture. it is between Susquehanna and Maryville and based on the fact Maryville playhs 20 games against high school jv teams, Susquehanna should go.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 10:58:06 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 10:58:06 PM
Maryville lost to a 9-16 team. Susquehanna did not. Champions guards shot 3-31 in a game. That is amazing and that should count for a lot especially when SU did not have any loss like that. And excuses that are performance based "an off shooting night" just means your team couldnt gut out a win against a poor team.
Can someone explain why SU is not in here and Maryville which sounds like an online college is in the discussion?
Can someone explain why SU is not in here and Maryville which sounds like an online college is in the discussion?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 10:59:43 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 10:59:43 PM
I'm not quitting, but this argument is going nowhere. Chapman thinks they should get in, others don't. So no matter how much debate there is, it is simple; no one wins. If Chapman makes it, they will be excited and others will question. If they don't Chapman will be upset and others will agree with the committee. It's just unfortunate that Pool B exists and there are so many teams fighting for 3 spots.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:00:21 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:00:21 PM
D Mac....what are yor thoughts here. You have seen SU play.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Wiz. Whats unfortunate is that your guards shot 3-31 and your defending them. At least say they had the flu or something.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 11:03:41 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 11:03:41 PM
Quote from: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Wiz. Whats unfortunate is that your guards shot 3-31 and your defending them. At least say they had the flu or something.
What's unfortunate is that your not very intelligent. If you read my previous blogs, I said Chapman still should have won. The shooting percentage was to show that it isn't easy beating a team shooting that percentage.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:08:10 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:08:10 PM
fair point. I spoke to a ncaa selection committee member and he said Chapman is in, but they have to leave their guards at home.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 11:09:44 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 11:09:44 PM
Quote from: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:08:10 PM
fair point. I spoke to a ncaa selection committee member and he said Chapman is in, but they have to leave their guards at home.
Ha! I enjoy the sarcasm, but Chapman's guards are a vital part of their team. They had one bad night, and unfortunately it cost them a crucial loss that very well may keep them out the playoffs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:14:14 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:14:14 PM
Thank you. For those who don't know, SU lost title game on a 3 with 9 seconds to go on the road against a Scranton team that was undefeated at home all year. They should have ahd the ball up 1 with 30 seconds left, however the refs incorrectly gave the ball to Scranton on a deflection.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 11:15:52 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 11:15:52 PM
Quote from: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 10:58:06 PM
Maryville lost to a 9-16 team. Susquehanna did not. Champions guards shot 3-31 in a game. That is amazing and that should count for a lot especially when SU did not have any loss like that. And excuses that are performance based "an off shooting night" just means your team couldnt gut out a win against a poor team.
Can someone explain why SU is not in here and Maryville which sounds like an online college is in the discussion?
I am not a Maryville fan. In fact, they are one of the teams that I like to root against most of the time. Kinda like the Green Bay Packers, Dallas Cowboys, New York Yankees thing.
Criteria that the committee might be reviewing...
2-point home loss to SCAC Pool A Centre
6-point road loss to SCAC Pool ACentre
8-point neutral floor win over ODAC Pool A VWC
6-point road loss to HCAC Pool A Transylvania
39-point home win over USA South Pool A Averett.
We don't know which of those teams are in the Regional rankings, but they are all "in-region" results.
We know that Maryville has an in-region record of 16-6, and that the win over D-2 rival Carson Newman does not count.
With all of the losses in the South Region, we don't know if they will be ranked. We will find out what the national committee thinks.
What factors that are criteria do you think make the case for Susquehanna?
Thanks. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 11:23:49 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 11:23:49 PM
I have an honest question for the Hall of Famers on the board, does the committee look at margin of victory or losses to teams? Also, do road/home records matter either? This is a serious question.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
Post by: Boal on March 01, 2009, 11:29:27 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 11:15:52 PMQuote from: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 10:58:06 PM
Maryville lost to a 9-16 team. Susquehanna did not. Champions guards shot 3-31 in a game. That is amazing and that should count for a lot especially when SU did not have any loss like that. And excuses that are performance based "an off shooting night" just means your team couldnt gut out a win against a poor team.
Can someone explain why SU is not in here and Maryville which sounds like an online college is in the discussion?
I am not a Maryville fan. In fact, they are one of the teams that I like to root against most of the time. Kinda like the Green Bay Packers, Dallas Cowboys, New York Yankees thing.
Criteria that the committee might be reviewing...
2-point home loss to SCAC Pool A Centre
6-point road loss to SCAC Pool ACentre
8-point neutral floor win over ODAC Pool A VWC
6-point road loss to HCAC Pool A Transylvania
39-point home win over USA South Pool A Averett.
We don't know which of those teams are in the Regional rankings, but they are all "in-region" results.
We know that Maryville has an in-region record of 16-6, and that the win over D-2 rival Carson Newman does not count.
With all of the losses in the South Region, we don't know if they will be ranked. We will find out what the national committee thinks.
What factors that are criteria do you think make the case for Susquehanna?
Thanks. :)
I agree. I would like to hear your arguments for Susquehanna. Welcome to the boards, but your team just lost. These other teams are on huge winning streaks. If Susquehanna goes it will be a travesty just like last year where Monravia got in and Chapman did not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 11:30:39 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 11:30:39 PM
Quote from: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Wiz. Whats unfortunate is that your guards shot 3-31 and your defending them. At least say they had the flu or something.
In regards to Chapman losing to Dallas, here are some statistics against the two best teams Chapman played against:
Vanguard (NAIA division I): Chapman shot 8-12 from 3 pt and had a rebounding margin of +8, won the game by 12
CMS (SCIAC champion, Pool A pick): Chapman shot 3-11 from 3 pt, had a rebounding margin of +8, won the game by 5
Dallas: Chapman shot 1-10 from 3 pt and lost the game by 3 points
The team is 42% from 3 pt range on the season. You can see that one more 3 pt made by the Chapman guards would have made the difference. They should have never lost that game and yet it happened. In basketball, there's never a 100% chance to win. Dallas had a 10% chance to win that game and they pulled it off.
If that 3 pt costs them a playoff berth, so be it. They should have won or should have put together a better schedule. But I maintain that the team has the quality required to be in the top 60 that will make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 11:32:32 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 11:32:32 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 11:23:49 PMHello, The Wiz.
I have an honest question for the Hall of Famers on the board, does the committee look at margin of victory or losses to teams? Also, do road/home records matter either? This is a serious question.
Thanks.
Neither MOV nor road/home are criteria. "Sixteen game winning streaks" (aka how they were playing at the end of the season) is not a criterion either.
Also, the Handbook uses "results" in several places instead of "won/loss percentage"
I guess that is where they want "subjectivity".
Quote
Selection Criteria.
Primary Criteria
The primary criteria emphasize regional competition (all contests leading up to NCAA
championships); all criteria listed will be evaluated (not listed in priority order).
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents.
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP).
- Opponents' Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OOWP).
[See Appendix B for explanation of OWP and OOWP calculations.]
• In-region head-to-head competition.
• In-region results versus common regional opponents.
• In-region results versus regionally ranked teams.
Note:
• Ranked opponents are defined as those teams ranked at the time of the rankings/
selection process only.
• Conference postseason contests are included.
• Contests versus provisional and reclassifying members in their third and fourth
years shall count in the primary criteria. Provisional and reclassifying members
shall remain ineligible for rankings and selections.
Secondary Criteria
If the evaluation of the primary criteria does not result in a decision, the
secondary criteria will be reviewed. All the criteria listed will be evaluated (not
listed in priority order). The secondary criteria introduce results against out-of-region
Division III and all other opponents including those contests versus opponents from
other classifications (i.e., provisionals, NAIA, NCAA Divisions I and II).
• Out-of-region head-to-head competition.
• Overall Division III win-loss percentage.
• Results versus common non Division III opponents.
• Results versus all Division III ranked teams.
• Overall win-loss percentage.
• Results versus all common opponents.
• Overall DIII Strength of Schedule.
Additionally, input is provided by regional advisory committees for consideration by
the basketball committee.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 11:33:54 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 01, 2009, 11:33:54 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 11:30:39 PMI agree! And you are finally comprehending how hard it it to make the NCAA's! :)Quote from: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:01:42 PM
Wiz. Whats unfortunate is that your guards shot 3-31 and your defending them. At least say they had the flu or something.
In regards to Chapman losing to Dallas, here is the bottom line. Here are some statistics against the two best teams Chapman played against:
Vanguard (NAIA division I): Chapman shot 8-12 from 3 pt and had a rebounding margin of +8, won the game by 12
CMS (SCIAC champion, Pool A pick): Chapman shot 3-11 from 3 pt, had a rebounding margin of +8, won the game by 5
Dallas: Chapman shot 1-10 from 3 pt and lost the game by 3 points
The team is 42% from 3 pt range on the season. You can see that one more 3 pt made by the Chapman guards would have made the difference. They should have never lost that game and yet it happened. In basketball, there's never a 100% chance to win. Dallas had a 10% chance to win that game and they pulled it off.
If that 3 pt costs them a playoff berth, so be it. They should have won or should have put together a better schedule. But I maintain that the team has the quality required to be in the top 60 that will make the playoffs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 11:41:32 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 01, 2009, 11:41:32 PM
susidad I hope you know more about basketball than you do about colleges. The crack that " Maryville which sounds like an online college is in the discussion" indicates profound ignorance not only of Maryville College but of its basketball history. Try sticking to facts if you have any that help you.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 11:44:22 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 11:44:22 PM
He just basically stated on another board that history started last year for him. So you might want to let him know.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on March 01, 2009, 11:50:56 PM
Post by: sac on March 01, 2009, 11:50:56 PM
This argument isn't going to be settled before noon tommorrow without a cage match between mascots......Panthers and Scots.
Despite my affection for things named after me, I have to go with the Panther on this one. Much more ferocious, unless alcohol and soccer are involved then all bets are off.
Despite my affection for things named after me, I have to go with the Panther on this one. Much more ferocious, unless alcohol and soccer are involved then all bets are off.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:54:31 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 01, 2009, 11:54:31 PM
ok here goes case for SU:
2 pt. loss to F&M on road top team in mid-atl.
win over Edgewood league champs neutral site
wins over catholic and scranton 17+18 win teams catholic in tourney.
5 of the 8 loses were in conference and they won avenged each one with a win.
6 of the 8 loses were in overtime or on the last possession
the schedule is filled with tons of competition and were never out of a game and won most of them.
9 of 18 wins were vs. over .500 teams (Maryville had 3 WINS VS. TEAMS OVER .500)
2 pt. loss to F&M on road top team in mid-atl.
win over Edgewood league champs neutral site
wins over catholic and scranton 17+18 win teams catholic in tourney.
5 of the 8 loses were in conference and they won avenged each one with a win.
6 of the 8 loses were in overtime or on the last possession
the schedule is filled with tons of competition and were never out of a game and won most of them.
9 of 18 wins were vs. over .500 teams (Maryville had 3 WINS VS. TEAMS OVER .500)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 12:02:34 AM
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 12:02:34 AM
Pat,
my "history" comment towards Letourneau deals with the history of the program in our conference. And if you look at our history books Susquehanna has played Catholic 7 times the past four years and beaten them 4 out of 7 under the new regime, so I am not in love by grading the history of a program before the current coach. Its practically a different program. (2 of the 3 catholic wins were in overtime and the other one was a buzzer beater Catholic win).
Not to go off course here, but there is a context for my comments.
I personally wouldn't mind a pool b play in game. Susquehanna vs. Maryville. We'll play it tomorrow at 7pm neutral site.
Sounds like it will be a happy day for Maryville.
my "history" comment towards Letourneau deals with the history of the program in our conference. And if you look at our history books Susquehanna has played Catholic 7 times the past four years and beaten them 4 out of 7 under the new regime, so I am not in love by grading the history of a program before the current coach. Its practically a different program. (2 of the 3 catholic wins were in overtime and the other one was a buzzer beater Catholic win).
Not to go off course here, but there is a context for my comments.
I personally wouldn't mind a pool b play in game. Susquehanna vs. Maryville. We'll play it tomorrow at 7pm neutral site.
Sounds like it will be a happy day for Maryville.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 12:14:28 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 12:14:28 AM
Maryville College was founded in 1819, a few years before online education began. In the 1990s, MC went to the NCAA tournament 6 times. Since 2000, it has gone 8 consecutive years and, until last year, had won at least one game each time. Twice since 2000 MC made it to the Sweet 16.
It is not a top 10 national program but it is not too shabby, either.
Knowing Coach Lambert, he'd be fine with playing anybody, including teams favored by ignorant posters as well as the ones from Chapman.
It is not a top 10 national program but it is not too shabby, either.
Knowing Coach Lambert, he'd be fine with playing anybody, including teams favored by ignorant posters as well as the ones from Chapman.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 12:57:01 AM
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 12:57:01 AM
getting killed here. If it makes you feel better Maryville is going to the tournament and has a tremendous history. Not ignorant though. Take it easy. As for "coach" willing to play anybody, lets not get carried away here.
More reason to knock Maryville (case not the program)
Piedmont and Huntingdon combined for Maryvilles last 6 division 3 wins. OK so we know nothing about either of them 6-0 is impressive. Consider THIS FELLOW POSTERS. HOW MANY WINS DID PEE'DMONT AND HUNTINGDON HAVE VERSUS TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD?
A. 10
B. 6
C. 4
D.2
E. 1
F. 0
IF YOU GUESSED F YOU WERE CORRECT. 1/3RD OF MARYVILLE'S SCHEDULE CAME AGAINST TEAMS THAT DID NOT WIN A GAME VS A .500 TEAM (THERE MIGHT BE MORE ALSO HAVENT CHECKED YET.)
AND "randy" is a girls name in the mid-atlantic ;D
More reason to knock Maryville (case not the program)
Piedmont and Huntingdon combined for Maryvilles last 6 division 3 wins. OK so we know nothing about either of them 6-0 is impressive. Consider THIS FELLOW POSTERS. HOW MANY WINS DID PEE'DMONT AND HUNTINGDON HAVE VERSUS TEAMS WITH A WINNING RECORD?
A. 10
B. 6
C. 4
D.2
E. 1
F. 0
IF YOU GUESSED F YOU WERE CORRECT. 1/3RD OF MARYVILLE'S SCHEDULE CAME AGAINST TEAMS THAT DID NOT WIN A GAME VS A .500 TEAM (THERE MIGHT BE MORE ALSO HAVENT CHECKED YET.)
AND "randy" is a girls name in the mid-atlantic ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 01:03:46 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 01:03:46 AM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 01, 2009, 09:48:47 PMQuote from: oldchap on March 01, 2009, 08:59:29 PM
I'm sorry to beat a dead horse, but something's bothering me about the Chapman issue. For all the people "in the know" here, why did Chapman get some votes for the Top 25 rankings in both the official d3hoops.com poll (week 12, they garnered 17 points, putting them at #30) and the poster's poll (they are also ranked #30), while Maryville is nowhere to be found?
Because at the end of the Top 25 and the Posters Poll aren't worth the paper they are printed on when it comes to making the NCAA Tournament. The committee doesn't look at the polls so they are worthless to use when trying to decide who is going to be in the tournament.
WOW! Someone actually takes my PP seriously enough to print it out! ;D
Do I get royalties? ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 01:05:53 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 01:05:53 AM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 01, 2009, 10:59:43 PM
I'm not quitting, but this argument is going nowhere. Chapman thinks they should get in, others don't. So no matter how much debate there is, it is simple; no one wins. If Chapman makes it, they will be excited and others will question. If they don't Chapman will be upset and others will agree with the committee. It's just unfortunate that Pool B exists and there are so many teams fighting for 3 spots.
I suspect you'd find it even more unfortunate if Pool B did not exist - I think only Elms could make it in as a Pool C.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 01:56:41 AM
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 01:56:41 AM
I suspect you'd find it even more unfortunate if Pool B did not exist - I think only Elms could make it in as a Pool C.
[/quote]
Let me correct myself then, every team should be in a league where all teams have a spot to get an automatic bid. Is that better for you?
[/quote]
Let me correct myself then, every team should be in a league where all teams have a spot to get an automatic bid. Is that better for you?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 02:04:24 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 02:04:24 AM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 01:56:41 AM
I suspect you'd find it even more unfortunate if Pool B did not exist - I think only Elms could make it in as a Pool C.
Let me correct myself then, every team should be in a league where all teams have a spot to get an automatic bid. Is that better for you?
[/quote]
Wiz, the net effect is that the Pool System has driven teams into conferences where they can gain access to the Pool A bid.
The Landmark Conference gets its Pool A bid in 2010. The Upper Midwest Athletic Conference and the New England Collegiate Conference should have their Pool A bids in 2011.
Please look at my summary of what I think will happen in the next two years.
We should be down to one Pool B bid in 2012.
Post 1303 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=2870.1303)
Pool B has allowed teams to gain access to the playoffs in an orderly fashion.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 02:14:17 AM
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 02:14:17 AM
I just feel if you are in a league, it is easier to get a bid. Regardless of how you do in the pre-season, a team can turn it on during league, qualify for the league post season tourney, win the tourney and receive an automatic bid. Unfortunately for independents, they don't have this luxury. A loss in the first game has the same effect as a loss as the last game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 02, 2009, 02:43:02 AM
Post by: oldchap on March 02, 2009, 02:43:02 AM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 02:14:17 AM
I just feel if you are in a league, it is easier to get a bid. Regardless of how you do in the pre-season, a team can turn it on during league, qualify for the league post season tourney, win the tourney and receive an automatic bid. Unfortunately for independents, they don't have this luxury. A loss in the first game has the same effect as a loss as the last game.
Amen to this, Brother!
For instance, Whitworth wouldn't have been able to go to the Tournament, had it not won last night (by the way, I'm not knocking them down, this was an impressive win, against a no less impressive opponent). Whitworth had lost to Linfield which isn't a team that's setting D3 basketball on fire. If Whitworth was a Pool B contender, right now we would be debating about that loss to Linfield (similar to Chapman's loss to Dallas) as a reason for them not to make it to the tournament. By the way, Whitworth also lost to CMS (which Chapman beat) and lost two times to UPS, before beating them in the Conference finals.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
For the love of God... there is no PRE-SEASON!!! It is out-of-conference play. If it was pre-season, the games wouldn't count!!!
Here is the deal for Maryville and Susquehanna... in the criteria of regional record, OWP, OOWP, Marville holds a 2-1 advantage of Susquehanna. When it comes to results over regionally ranked opponents... I believe Maryville has more results. The committee may never get to any other criteria than all of that... which gives Maryville the advantage. It is slight... but it is an advantage to be picked.
And to follow up on the Pool B, lucky-to-be-part-of-the-conversation part... Susquehanna would not be part of the tournament discussion at all if they were in a Pool A conference and up for a Pool C bid. The simple fact they are part of the conversation is nice, but if this was next year... Susquehanna wouldn't even be discussed as a Pool C bid. Susquehanna's resume just isn't that good, especially with seven in-region losses.
Here is the deal for Maryville and Susquehanna... in the criteria of regional record, OWP, OOWP, Marville holds a 2-1 advantage of Susquehanna. When it comes to results over regionally ranked opponents... I believe Maryville has more results. The committee may never get to any other criteria than all of that... which gives Maryville the advantage. It is slight... but it is an advantage to be picked.
And to follow up on the Pool B, lucky-to-be-part-of-the-conversation part... Susquehanna would not be part of the tournament discussion at all if they were in a Pool A conference and up for a Pool C bid. The simple fact they are part of the conversation is nice, but if this was next year... Susquehanna wouldn't even be discussed as a Pool C bid. Susquehanna's resume just isn't that good, especially with seven in-region losses.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 10:29:08 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 10:29:08 AM
Everybody associated with Maryville's program wants to 1) be in a conference with an AQ bid, and 2) wants to play a better schedule against better teams. It is what it is right now. If there is any "churning" in the SCAC, ASC, or USA South, I hope Maryville and the rest of the GSAC can land in a competitive AQ conference in which you do not have to travel huge and expensive distances to get games.
I have never known Randall D. Lambert to turn down a D3 game, so if Susquehanna wants to come down South and try to whip some southern teams, I bet they can visit Maryville via Virginia Wesleyan, Hampden-Sidney, and Mississippi College and go back where Randy is a man's name 0 and 4.
I have never known Randall D. Lambert to turn down a D3 game, so if Susquehanna wants to come down South and try to whip some southern teams, I bet they can visit Maryville via Virginia Wesleyan, Hampden-Sidney, and Mississippi College and go back where Randy is a man's name 0 and 4.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on March 02, 2009, 10:43:41 AM
Post by: dahlby on March 02, 2009, 10:43:41 AM
In response to Ralph Turner's comment about realizing how hard it is to make the tourney, I think he is only half correct with his observation. Hard if your conference is tough, easy if your conference is weak. You may have close conference games or a couple of teams may be "tough", but that is in comparison to the other conference teams they are playing, and not against outside of conference opponents.
Good luck to all!
Good luck to all!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 11:08:31 AM
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 11:08:31 AM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 02, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
For the love of God... there is no PRE-SEASON!!! It is out-of-conference play. If it was pre-season, the games wouldn't count!!!
Your wrong! Couldn't disagree with you more! Are you trying to tell me when Claremont played Chapman the first game of the year and loss, that wasn't apart of their pre-season? When you are in a league, you can erase your games before league (pre-season) by doing well in your league! For independents, losing to a in region D-3 game as the first game of the year will haunt you because you can't redeem yourself in a league. It doesn't matter if they are out of conference, the D-3 games still count for your in region record/OWP! So once again I say...YOUR WRONG!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2009, 11:15:24 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2009, 11:15:24 AM
BRACKET
http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/mbbbracket2009.pdf
http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/mbbbracket2009.pdf
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 11:25:28 AM
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 11:25:28 AM
Glad to see Maryville gets in again based on reputation and the strength of having one nice win all year. We at SU are going to schedule piedmont 5 times next year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on March 02, 2009, 11:34:39 AM
Post by: bballlover on March 02, 2009, 11:34:39 AM
Piedmont might not be the pushover you think they are. Just ask Centre.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 11:44:04 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 11:44:04 AM
OK susidad if you'd rather play Piedmont after beating VAWesleyan and Hampden-Sidney and Maryville, I am sure that could be arranged. You are fortunate to be in an area with lots of D3 scheduling options.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 02, 2009, 12:24:47 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 02, 2009, 12:24:47 PM
To you, Boal, The Wiz, I'm sorry Chapman didn't make it. It was a huge mountain to climb for the committee, and judging by the heat of this thread, they probably didn't want to do something that may have appeared controversial (although they did last year by not picking Chapman, but got off way too easy). I hope the coach has better plans for next year in regards to the schedule. With 5 returning starters and some very fine freshmen/sophomores coming off the bench, Chapman will be even better. And finally, let's hope players can focus for the entire season and don't lose any game they shouldn't lose (unlike Conference teams - à la Whithworth - which may trip and fall during the season, but can focus all their energy on the last game).
As for all of you Ralph, scottiedoug, Pat, Oxybob and others, please throw some love towards Chapman. It would be nice if sometimes you'd look at the glass half full, not half empty. It may not change anything, but it sure will make us, hard core fan feel better.
A special thanks to you, pabegg: your objectivity and "professionalism" is a breath of fresh air.
Good luck to Claremont. They beat Whitworth once, they should beat them again. Chapman would have loved to have another shot at Whitworth. This year's game and Chapman's win last year, had them convinced they could beat them again.
One more thing: good luck to Maryville. You have no idea how precious it is to have been handed this last Pool B spot. You are, in some ways, representing Chapman's colors. Make a run in the playoffs. I'm rooting for you.
I shall be back in a few month, when season starts again. I'm gonna miss you all. Over and out.
As for all of you Ralph, scottiedoug, Pat, Oxybob and others, please throw some love towards Chapman. It would be nice if sometimes you'd look at the glass half full, not half empty. It may not change anything, but it sure will make us, hard core fan feel better.
A special thanks to you, pabegg: your objectivity and "professionalism" is a breath of fresh air.
Good luck to Claremont. They beat Whitworth once, they should beat them again. Chapman would have loved to have another shot at Whitworth. This year's game and Chapman's win last year, had them convinced they could beat them again.
One more thing: good luck to Maryville. You have no idea how precious it is to have been handed this last Pool B spot. You are, in some ways, representing Chapman's colors. Make a run in the playoffs. I'm rooting for you.
I shall be back in a few month, when season starts again. I'm gonna miss you all. Over and out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 12:31:33 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 12:31:33 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 02, 2009, 12:24:47 PMChapman, we at McMurry are throwing love towards you ... in baseball.
To you, Boal, The Wiz, I'm sorry Chapman didn't make it. It was a huge mountain to climb for the committee, and judging by the heat of this thread, they probably didn't want to do something that may have appeared controversial (although they did last year by not picking Chapman, but got off way too easy). I hope the coach has better plans for next year in regards to the schedule. With 5 returning starters and some very fine freshmen/sophomores coming off the bench, Chapman will be even better. And finally, let's hope players can focus for the entire season and don't lose any game they shouldn't lose (unlike Conference teams - à la Whithworth - which may trip and fall during the season, but can focus all their energy on the last game).
As for all of you Ralph, scottiedoug, Pat, Oxybob and others, please throw some love towards Chapman. I would be nice if sometimes you'd look at the glass half full, not half empty. It may not change anything, but it sure will make us, hard core fan feel better.
One more thing: good luck to Claremont. They beat Whitworth once, they should beat them again. Chapman would have loved to have another shot at Whitworth. This year's game and Chapman's win last year, had them convinced they could beat them again.
I shall be back in a few month, when season starts again. I'm gonna miss you all. Over and out.
We have gone home-and-home with you guys for several years.
Pat made some great comments about Chapman.
Do the Cactus Jam in Phoenix.
McMurry went Vegas this year and got an in-region game. Get two in-region games from a trip to Vegas
There are five "unique" chances for in-region opponents that are different from the West Coast usual suspects.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 12:35:23 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 12:35:23 PM
Besides the Cactus Jam, are there any more tournaments that allow for more West region match-ups?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 05:13:26 PM
Post by: susiddad on March 02, 2009, 05:13:26 PM
Is Maryville playing Piedmont in the first round?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2009, 05:36:31 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2009, 05:36:31 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 11:08:31 AMWiz... did the game count as in-region game? Even if it was the first game of the season? Yes. The game counted so it can't be considered pre-season. Pre-season is exhibition games that don't count toward anything. Claremont vs. Chapman counted. You can't erase those games if you want a Pool C opportunity. Just because you are a school in a conference with an automatic qualified doesn't mean those games don't count for you if you don't get the AQ. CMS didn't have to worry about that this season, but if they had to be on the board for a Pool C bid... that game counted. Thus... not pre-season!Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 02, 2009, 09:16:05 AM
For the love of God... there is no PRE-SEASON!!! It is out-of-conference play. If it was pre-season, the games wouldn't count!!!
Your wrong! Couldn't disagree with you more! Are you trying to tell me when Claremont played Chapman the first game of the year and loss, that wasn't apart of their pre-season? When you are in a league, you can erase your games before league (pre-season) by doing well in your league! For independents, losing to a in region D-3 game as the first game of the year will haunt you because you can't redeem yourself in a league. It doesn't matter if they are out of conference, the D-3 games still count for your in region record/OWP! So once again I say...YOUR WRONG!
So... I say... YOUR WRONG!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 07:02:48 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 02, 2009, 07:02:48 PM
susiddad you really ought to think about how some schools get the reputation as the home of jerks and others do not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 07:20:07 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 07:20:07 PM
But, they did win so they didn't have to worry about it. Back to my point about three seasons in one! You can redeem a lost by winning an AQ!
So once again I say, YOUR WRONG!
So once again I say, YOUR WRONG!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2009, 07:31:00 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 02, 2009, 07:31:00 PM
Wiz... I will base this on one simple thing: did the game count and was it played during the official NCAA season? If so... it isn't considered pre-season. It was and so it isn't a pre-season game. Come on, Wiz!
"a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, where it meant "before" (preclude; prevent); applied freely as a prefix, with the meanings "prior to," "in advance of," "early," "beforehand," "before," "in front of," and with other figurative meanings (preschool; prewar; prepay: preoral; prefrontal)."
Thus... PRE-season... BEFORE-season... PRIOR TO-season... I could go on.
"a prefix occurring originally in loanwords from Latin, where it meant "before" (preclude; prevent); applied freely as a prefix, with the meanings "prior to," "in advance of," "early," "beforehand," "before," "in front of," and with other figurative meanings (preschool; prewar; prepay: preoral; prefrontal)."
Thus... PRE-season... BEFORE-season... PRIOR TO-season... I could go on.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 08:00:38 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 08:00:38 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 12:35:23 PM
Besides the Cactus Jam, are there any more tournaments that allow for more West region match-ups?
Wiz, there are sports travel companies that arrange these tourneys all over the country.The coaches associations know which companies are best for the various needs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 08:45:33 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 08:45:33 PM
What your failing to get is the fact that teams in a league can get a chance to redeem a loss in league play. As an independent, they don't have the same luxury. Therefore the word "pre-season" applies to "pre-league play". Is that better for you to understand since the word pre-season is throwing you for a loop?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 08:46:42 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 08:46:42 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 08:00:38 PMQuote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 12:35:23 PM
Besides the Cactus Jam, are there any more tournaments that allow for more West region match-ups?
Wiz, there are sports travel companies that arrange these tourneys all over the country.The coaches associations know which companies are best for the various needs.
Thank you. Hopefully Chapman will invest sometime into speaking with such companies.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on March 02, 2009, 08:52:12 PM
Post by: Just Bill on March 02, 2009, 08:52:12 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 08:45:33 PMIt's a silly argument because it's just semantics, but you are using the term Pre-season incorrectly. Pre-season is those four silly games the NFL has before the season starts. College basketball doesn't have pre-season games. They have non-conference games, conference games and postseason games.
What your failing to get is the fact that teams in a league can get a chance to redeem a loss in league play. As an independent, they don't have the same luxury. Therefore the word "pre-season" applies to "pre-league play". Is that better for you to understand since the word pre-season is throwing you for a loop?
But by now, we get what you mean, so we can we drop it and move along?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 08:45:33 PM
What your failing to get is the fact that teams in a league can get a chance to redeem a loss in league play. As an independent, they don't have the same luxury. Therefore the word "pre-season" applies to "pre-league play". Is that better for you to understand since the word pre-season is throwing you for a loop?
Even 'pre-league' is inaccurate, since many, many conference teams play at least one non-con game after conference play has started. 'Non-conference' would be far better.
Only scrimmages and exhibitions are 'pre-season'. Otherwise, everything counts as 'season' (check out a stats page sometime - pre-season stats are never included, everything else is (though members of conferences will have both 'full season' and 'conference-only' stats).
You are clearly a minority of one in this argument.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 10:43:32 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2009, 10:43:32 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 02, 2009, 08:45:33 PM
What your failing to get is the fact that teams in a league can get a chance to redeem a loss in league play. As an independent, they don't have the same luxury. Therefore the word "pre-season" applies to "pre-league play". Is that better for you to understand since the word pre-season is throwing you for a loop?
According to the rules of NCAA Division III, the men's basketball season begins on November 15. Games played on or after that date are counted both towards a team's record and towards its 25-game allotment. As D-Mac said, you can't play a "pre-season" game once the season has already started. The term "pre-season", as Mr. Ypsi said, applies only to scrimmages and exhibitions that take place before November 15.
Chapman vs. CMS was not a pre-season game. It was a regular-season game for both Chapman and CMS, and a non-conference game for CMS. It was played after November 15, under NCAA D3's regular-season rules. In other words, that game counted towards the 25-game allotment of both CMS and Chapman, unlike a pre-season exhibition game. And, unlike a pre-season scrimmage, the CMS vs. Chapman contest included full uniforms; options for publicity and paid attendance; a full forty-minute scoreboard rather than the 20-minute-maximum scoreboard reset mandated for pre-season scrimmages; etc. The game counted towards the overall records of both CMS and Chapman, and it also counted towards the regional records of both CMS and Chapman.
Ergo, it was a regular-season game, not a pre-season game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 02:05:10 AM
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 02:05:10 AM
Regardless of all the technical data, words, facts, rules, etc. you want to throw my way, the fact remains Independents do not have the benefit of participating in league where they can receive an automatic bid. I don't understand why this is such a complex point to understand.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2009, 02:11:58 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 03, 2009, 02:11:58 AM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 02:05:10 AM
Regardless of all the technical data, words, facts, rules, etc. you want to throw my way, the fact remains Independents do not have the benefit of participating in league where they can receive an automatic bid. I don't understand why this is such a complex point to understand.
It isn't. Is the concept of 'season' and 'preseason' too complex for you?
You are conflating (for those in conferences) 'conference' and 'non-conference' with 'season' and 'preseason'. They are totally different categories.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 03:08:05 AM
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 03:08:05 AM
I was using the word "pre-season" loosely to define the games before conference play. I didn't know everyone would be so upset with my terminology.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 08:18:25 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 08:18:25 AM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 03:08:05 AM
I was using the word "pre-season" loosely to define the games before conference play. I didn't know everyone would be so upset with my terminology.
Good morning! :)
The way that Pool B works is that the NCAA has figured out how to use the Pools to the advantage of the teams like Chapman, e.g., in baseball.
We have plenty of Pool B's in baseball, even some Pool B's that earn playoff bids after the Pool B allocation is distributed. Chapman's conference season begins on Nov 15th for football. For Chapman baseball, the season started with Whittier and then went to McMurry. Pre-season for Chapman baseball was the alumni game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on March 03, 2009, 09:57:38 AM
Post by: Just Bill on March 03, 2009, 09:57:38 AM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 03:08:05 AMIt wasn't your misue of the term, it was your ridiculously defensive posture after someone tried to correct you.
I was using the word "pre-season" loosely to define the games before conference play. I didn't know everyone would be so upset with my terminology.
Move along folks. Nothing to see here.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 01:03:02 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 01:03:02 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 03, 2009, 09:57:38 AMQuote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 03:08:05 AMIt wasn't your misue of the term, it was your ridiculously defensive posture after someone tried to correct you.
I was using the word "pre-season" loosely to define the games before conference play. I didn't know everyone would be so upset with my terminology.
Move along folks. Nothing to see here.
It clearly was my misuse of the term because that is what everyone corrected me on. I was just trying to emphasize independent team seasons vs. teams in a league. :P
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 01:09:40 PM
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 01:09:40 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 01:03:02 PM
It clearly was my misuse of the term because that is what everyone corrected me on. I was just trying to emphasize independent team seasons vs. teams in a league.
I knew what you meant. Everyone knew what you meant. You're new, so you haven't learned to ignore the didactic, supercilious pedants who abound around here.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 01:42:02 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 01:42:02 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 01:09:40 PMQuote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 01:03:02 PM
It clearly was my misuse of the term because that is what everyone corrected me on. I was just trying to emphasize independent team seasons vs. teams in a league.
I knew what you meant. Everyone knew what you meant. You're new, so you haven't learned to ignore the didactic, supercilious pedants who abound around here.
OxyBob
I'll side with you on this one, OB!! Maybe we should have an FAQ on the subject, so when some newbie is confused about the term "pre-season" vs. "non conference", we don't have to waste two pages of garbage.
Even I was corrected a few months ago (as a newbie myself), when I made the same mistake.
And by the way, I'm also siding with The Wiz on his argument. Last year, Pomona made the playoffs as an AQ, even though they had a dismal record (15-13, 8-6 conference), just because they managed to win the conference finals. That effectively "stole" a Pool C spot from some other worthy team, because Oxy made it as Pool C. (Oxy was clearly the better team, as proof of that, they handily beat Pomona in the first round).
Bottom line: Conference teams can have one great night and make it to the Playoffs. Indies (especially on the West Coast) cannot even afford one bad game for the entire season against a so-so team.
This argument goes to the heart of which teams the process is trying to reward. Is it the best consistent record? Or is it how strong you finish your season? It looks to me that there is confusion of purpose between Pool A winners (how strong you finish) versus Pool B and C (how consistent you are).
I'm not placing judgment here, only a question.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 03, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
Post by: ronk on March 03, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
Prediction: the bumbling Bs will be in the championship game.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2009, 02:00:55 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 03, 2009, 02:00:55 PM
oldchap raises an interesting question. In the case of Maryville, an independent in a region where it is hard to build a good and competitive schedule, the team before January was 4 - 6 and wound up 20 -6. They finished hot but because of early losses (3 to tournament teams) barely got in. Virginia Wesleyan, whom Maryville beat before January, wound up hot and won the ODAC tournament but does not have a great overall or regional record. It does seem that the different pools are rewarding different kinds of good work.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 02:16:35 PM
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 02:16:35 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 01:42:02 PM
And by the way, I'm also siding with The Wiz on his argument. Last year, Pomona made the playoffs as an AQ, even though they had a dismal record (15-13, 8-6 conference), just because they managed to win the conference finals. That effectively "stole" a Pool C spot from some other worthy team, because Oxy made it as Pool C. (Oxy was clearly the better team, as proof of that, they handily beat Pomona in the first round).
Handily? Not to be didactic or pedantic, but Oxy beat Pomona 52-51 in the first round last season. Connor Whitman put the Tigers up by one with about 12 seconds left, and then Oxy blocked Adam Chiamowitz's baseline shot with under 4 seconds to go.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: NEPAFAN on March 03, 2009, 02:17:48 PM
Post by: NEPAFAN on March 03, 2009, 02:17:48 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
Prediction: the bumbling Bs will be in the championship game.
All three of them?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on March 03, 2009, 02:28:10 PM
Post by: TeeDub on March 03, 2009, 02:28:10 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 02:16:35 PMQuote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 01:42:02 PM
And by the way, I'm also siding with The Wiz on his argument. Last year, Pomona made the playoffs as an AQ, even though they had a dismal record (15-13, 8-6 conference), just because they managed to win the conference finals. That effectively "stole" a Pool C spot from some other worthy team, because Oxy made it as Pool C. (Oxy was clearly the better team, as proof of that, they handily beat Pomona in the first round).
Handily? Not to be didactic or pedantic, but Oxy beat Pomona 52-51 in the first round last season. Connor Whitman put the Tigers up by one with about 12 seconds left, and then Oxy blocked Adam Chiamowitz's baseline shot with under 4 seconds to go.
OxyBob
Wow...that was amazing...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 02:48:06 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 02:48:06 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 02:16:35 PMQuote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 01:42:02 PM
And by the way, I'm also siding with The Wiz on his argument. Last year, Pomona made the playoffs as an AQ, even though they had a dismal record (15-13, 8-6 conference), just because they managed to win the conference finals. That effectively "stole" a Pool C spot from some other worthy team, because Oxy made it as Pool C. (Oxy was clearly the better team, as proof of that, they handily beat Pomona in the first round).
Handily? Not to be didactic or pedantic, but Oxy beat Pomona 52-51 in the first round last season. Connor Whitman put the Tigers up by one with about 12 seconds left, and then Oxy blocked Adam Chiamowitz's baseline shot with under 4 seconds to go.
OxyBob
OK, fine, OB. I was not at the game, unlike you I'm sure. But that has little to do with the point I was trying to make. I drew from my limited experience of D3 basketball by picking last year's Pomona, in comparison to an Independent such as Chapman (take Buena Vista or St Mary this year instead if you want).
Essentially here are the fundamental questions at stake here:
What is the purpose of the D3 basketball playoffs? What are we trying to reward? Which teams "deserve" to be represented? And what are the selection criteria in order to make sure these "deserving" teams indeed are going to be part of it?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 02:58:04 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 02:58:04 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
Prediction: the bumbling Bs will be in the championship game.
Of what?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 02:59:04 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 02:59:04 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 02:48:06 PM
OK, fine, OB. I was not at the game, unlike you I'm sure. But that has little to do with the point I was trying to make.
Trying to fake.
BTW, you don't have to fake your way through things. We have schedules and results back to 2003 on the site.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 03, 2009, 03:12:52 PM
Post by: ronk on March 03, 2009, 03:12:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 02:58:04 PMQuote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 01:59:15 PM
Prediction: the bumbling Bs will be in the championship game.
Of what?
D3 men's bball. 3/21/2009
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 03:50:34 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 03:50:34 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 02:59:04 PMQuote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 02:48:06 PM
OK, fine, OB. I was not at the game, unlike you I'm sure. But that has little to do with the point I was trying to make.
Trying to fake.
BTW, you don't have to fake your way through things. We have schedules and results back to 2003 on the site.
I was NOT trying to fake. I just became excited and added the word "handily" to my post. Good grief!! You people can't quit! I'm trying to have a useful conversation by asking pertinent questions and you are nit picking over everything! And taking away my karma... Forget it, I'm out!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 03:58:35 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 01:09:40 PM
I knew what you meant. Everyone knew what you meant. You're new, so you haven't learned to ignore the didactic, supercilious pedants who abound around here.
We've got a club, and a treehouse, and a secret handshake, and everything! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 03:59:06 PM
Post by: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 03:59:06 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 02:48:06 PMQuote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 02:16:35 PMOK, fine, OB. I was not at the game, unlike you I'm sure. But that has little to do with the point I was trying to make.Quote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 01:42:02 PMHandily? Not to be didactic or pedantic, but Oxy beat Pomona 52-51 in the first round last season. Connor Whitman put the Tigers up by one with about 12 seconds left, and then Oxy blocked Adam Chiamowitz's baseline shot with under 4 seconds to go.
And by the way, I'm also siding with The Wiz on his argument. Last year, Pomona made the playoffs as an AQ, even though they had a dismal record (15-13, 8-6 conference), just because they managed to win the conference finals. That effectively "stole" a Pool C spot from some other worthy team, because Oxy made it as Pool C. (Oxy was clearly the better team, as proof of that, they handily beat Pomona in the first round).
I get your point. You think Chapman should have made the playoffs. You refuse to accept that Chapman as a Pool B contender played a lousy schedule, had the 3rd worst strength of schedule in all of D-III, didn't win the games it had to win, and therefore didn't qualify as a Pool B team under the NCAA criteria. The remedy for Chapman is easy: Play and beat better teams, and don't complain when no one's impressed that you beat La Sierra 5 times.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 03:58:35 PMQuote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 01:09:40 PMWe've got a club, and a treehouse, and a secret handshake, and everything!
I knew what you meant. Everyone knew what you meant. You're new, so you haven't learned to ignore the didactic, supercilious pedants who abound around here.
http://www.marx-brothers.org/whyaduck/sounds/ducksoup/club.wav
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 04:07:03 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 01:42:02 PM
Bottom line: Conference teams can have one great night and make it to the Playoffs. Indies (especially on the West Coast) cannot even afford one bad game for the entire season against a so-so team.
This argument goes to the heart of which teams the process is trying to reward. Is it the best consistent record? Or is it how strong you finish your season? It looks to me that there is confusion of purpose between Pool A winners (how strong you finish) versus Pool B and C (how consistent you are).
I'm not placing judgment here, only a question.
I think that you're confusing process with results a bit here. The NCAA doesn't declare by fiat that conference tournament winners from qualifying conferences have to be awarded the automatic bids from those conferences. That decision is left up to each individual conference. In other words, each league that has an automatic bid can apportion it to whomever it sees fit: Regular-season champion, conference tournament champion, team with the highest cumulative g.p.a., team with the most original mascot, whatever.
Sure, all but one of the qualifying conferences award their automatic bids to their conference tourney champ, but they don't have to. They choose to. And that's where things such as reward, purpose, and process come into play. It's the leagues themselves that are responsible for the "how strong you finish" emphasis in Pool A, not the NCAA or its representatives that administer the D3 tourney.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: batteredbard on March 03, 2009, 04:18:49 PM
Post by: batteredbard on March 03, 2009, 04:18:49 PM
<Golf clap>
Amen. Conferences make the call.
But then Im still thinking mathematically DIII should be a 128 team field to proportionally match D1 with the percentage of teams in the division that get to dance.
Amen. Conferences make the call.
But then Im still thinking mathematically DIII should be a 128 team field to proportionally match D1 with the percentage of teams in the division that get to dance.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 04:41:53 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: batteredbard on March 03, 2009, 04:18:49 PMAfter the regular season, we determined that the "second season" began for about 250 teams. ;)
<Golf clap>
Amen. Conferences make the call.
But then Im still thinking mathematically DIII should be a 128 team field to proportionally match D1 with the percentage of teams in the division that get to dance.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 03, 2009, 05:01:39 PM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on March 03, 2009, 05:01:39 PM
Quote from: batteredbard on March 03, 2009, 04:18:49 PM
<Golf clap>
Amen. Conferences make the call.
But then Im still thinking mathematically DIII should be a 128 team field to proportionally match D1 with the percentage of teams in the division that get to dance.
Actually in proportion to D1's 65 teams D3 should have about 80 teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 05:29:07 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 05:29:07 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 03:59:06 PM
I get your point. You think Chapman should have made the playoffs. You refuse to accept that Chapman as a Pool B contender played a lousy schedule, had the 3rd worst strength of schedule in all of D-III, didn't win the games it had to win, and therefore didn't qualify as a Pool B team under the NCAA criteria. The remedy for Chapman is easy: Play and beat better teams, and don't complain when no one's impressed that you beat La Sierra 5 times.
Look, OB. You and all the others have beat the dead horse so much with this, that I'm way past that. You just don't believe that I can actually have a conversation that doesn't involve Chapman.
My questions were simple. What is the purpose of the D3 playoffs? What kind of teams should make the playoffs? and in which way does the process help in making sure that the playoffs field the teams that are supposed to be part of it according the answers to the previous questions?
When I look at the Massey Ratings, it's interesting to note that teams ranked 1 through 9 actually made the playoffs. This seems logical right? But then, I see that some teams such as Augustana (#10), Buena Vista (#11), Oshkosh (#13), North Central IL (#15), etc. are not in the playoffs, while teams like Medaille (#177), SUNYIT (#238), Brockport (#200) or Husson (#310) made it. That's when I wonder and ask the questions above.
And, please, please, don't lecture me about Massey not being used by D3, or whatever else you're going to come up with. I know all that. I use Massey as a measure of how good the teams are, more or less. At least I would think that Augustana is a much better team than Husson, or am I wrong here too?!
And please stop taking away my k. I'm being a good citizen here and you guys are playing God. >:(
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on March 03, 2009, 05:42:26 PM
Post by: sac on March 03, 2009, 05:42:26 PM
Remember the goals of D3 post-season play is much more about providing participation opportunities, not the best tournament possible.
In the past some conference champions didn't even make the NCAA tournament. The auto-matic bids make sure there is an avenue for certain conferences to participate in the D3 tournament in all sports. Its up to the conferences to determine how that AQ is handed out.
Pool C allows a number of teams to participate who have earned it with their play throughout the season, but didn't earn an AQ. Sometimes its going to be a team that stumbled in the AQ tournament, sometimes its going to be a team that might be right behind another conference foe that just as good or better.
Pool B allows schools who don't have a conference or who's conference doesn't have an auto-bid an avenue into the tournament before Pool C.
In the past some conference champions didn't even make the NCAA tournament. The auto-matic bids make sure there is an avenue for certain conferences to participate in the D3 tournament in all sports. Its up to the conferences to determine how that AQ is handed out.
Pool C allows a number of teams to participate who have earned it with their play throughout the season, but didn't earn an AQ. Sometimes its going to be a team that stumbled in the AQ tournament, sometimes its going to be a team that might be right behind another conference foe that just as good or better.
Pool B allows schools who don't have a conference or who's conference doesn't have an auto-bid an avenue into the tournament before Pool C.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on March 03, 2009, 05:44:07 PM
Post by: TeeDub on March 03, 2009, 05:44:07 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 05:29:07 PM
When I look at the Massey Ratings, it's interesting to note that teams ranked 1 through 9 actually made the playoffs. This seems logical right? But then, I see that some teams such as Augustana (#10), Buena Vista (#11), Oshkosh (#13), North Central IL (#15), etc. are not in the playoffs, while teams like Medaille (#177), SUNYIT (#238), Brockport (#200) or Husson (#310) made it. That's when I wonder and ask the questions above.
---------------------------------
And please stop taking away my k.
I appreciate your questions as someone new to the discussion. The reality is that these arguments have been hashed over many times in the halls of d3hoops.com, so that may add to the tone of some of the responses. Nonetheless, just taking the point above about who gets in and who doesn't as you allude to above, the same questions can be asked in Division I as well. There are quite often 'better' teams that get left out and conference 'champions' that get let in...that is just the way it is. And in my opinion, it is the right way to do it. That is actually what makes this time of year so great.
As for the karma, whining about it will usually only result in it going away. Make your points, be flexible to what you get back in return and don't pay attention to the karma.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 05:57:02 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 05:57:02 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 05:29:07 PMOkay, let's look at this.Quote from: OxyBob on March 03, 2009, 03:59:06 PM
I get your point. You think Chapman should have made the playoffs. You refuse to accept that Chapman as a Pool B contender played a lousy schedule, had the 3rd worst strength of schedule in all of D-III, didn't win the games it had to win, and therefore didn't qualify as a Pool B team under the NCAA criteria. The remedy for Chapman is easy: Play and beat better teams, and don't complain when no one's impressed that you beat La Sierra 5 times.
Look, OB. You and all the others have beat the dead horse so much with this, that I'm way past that. You just don't believe that I can actually have a conversation that doesn't involve Chapman.
My questions were simple. What is the purpose of the D3 playoffs?
To provide the competitive experience of a national tourney. We had a recent discussion across all of D-III about this issue, believe it or not. Some in D-III would be happy just to have the regular season and have no playoffs to interfere with academic work. We have about 100 pages of message board discussion, news and analysis on the General Topics Board
What kind of teams should make the playoffs?
Teams in conferences as the system had evolved.
and in which way does the process help in making sure that the playoffs field the teams that are supposed to be part of it according the answers to the previous questions?
The Championships Committee tries to refine the process to all the greatest access to all teams in this process. Chapman does a great job in some sports in Pool B. They seem to fall short in men's basketball.
When I look at the Massey Ratings, it's interesting to note that teams ranked 1 through 9 actually made the playoffs. This seems logical right? But then, I see that some teams such as Augustana (#10), Buena Vista (#11), Oshkosh (#13), North Central IL (#15), etc. are not in the playoffs, while teams like Medaille (#177), SUNYIT (#238), Brockport (#200) or Husson (#310) made it. That's when I wonder and ask the questions above.
And, please, please, don't lecture me about Massey not being used by D3, or whatever else you're going to come up with. I know all that. I use Massey as a measure of how good the teams are, more or less. At least I would think that Augustana is a much better team than Husson, or am I wrong here too?!
You are right about Augie and Husson. Augie has chosen to be a part of the CCIW and to consider those schools as peer institutions. If they wanted to join the North Atlantic Conference ( or the unlikely possibility that the NAC would extend an invitation to a school in Illinois) then they could earn the Pool A bid from the NAC.
And please stop taking away my k. I'm being a good citizen here and you guys are playing God. >:(
1) Forget any notions brought over from D-1. D3 is about student-athletes taking time off from class work to compete in amateur athletics, not about making the school millions of dollars.
2) There is an automatic qualifier bid for every conference to be used as the conference wishes. The good news is that the NCAA has a really lucrative contract for March Madness and D-III is able to fund some at-large bids. When the money dries up, then the NCAA will consider something else. The NAIA schools pay their way to their national tourney. Some NAIA schools didn't have the money some years, so they haven't gone!
As for the at-large bids, especially the Pool C bids, the recent NCAA March Madness contract allowed the NCAA to increase dramatically the number of at-large bids given.
3) Look at the team pages for Augie and North Central. They lost in the conference tourney. Buena Vista and UW-Oshkosh did not win the conference tourney either.
4) Medaille -- winner of the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference. SUNYIT -- winner of the North Eastern Athletic Conference. Brockport won the SUNYAC. Husson won the North Atlantic Conference. Just as sac said...access to post-season participation.
Augie and North Central came up a few "inches" short of that last bid!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 06:16:35 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 03, 2009, 06:16:35 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 05:57:02 PM
To provide the competitive experience of a national tourney. We had a recent discussion across all of D-III about this issue, believe it or not. Some in D-III would be happy just to have the regular season and have no playoffs to interfere with academic work. We have about 100 pages of message board discussion, news and analysis on the General Topics Board
Thank you!!
Links to these pages would be greatly appreciated. :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 05:57:02 PM
3) Look at the team pages for Augie and North Central. They lost in the conference tourney. Buena Vista and UW-Oshkosh did not win the conference tourney either.
4) Medaille -- winner of the Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference. SUNYIT -- winner of the North Eastern Athletic Conference. Brockport won the SUNYAC. Husson won the North Atlantic Conference. Just as sac said...access to post-season participation.
Augie and North Central came up a few "inches" short of that last bid!
My other point was to say that there seems to be a disconnect in the selection process between Pool A, which reward teams that finish strong regardless of whether they had a few "bad" losses during the season, versus Pool B and Pool C (and especially Pool B), which need to have a very consistent season and not lose to teams which they shouldn't lose to. What's your opinion about this?
...And my apologies for getting hot under the collar. Oxybob sure knows how to push my button... ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 07:42:50 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 07:42:50 PM
The best way to look at Pool B is to consider Pool B schools as one big conference that extends coast to coast.
You won't see every Pool B school, so the current arrangement has evolved to give a reasonable access to the tourney. The Pool B bid number is determined by dividing the number of Pool B schools by the access ratio (the number of members of Pool A conferences divided by the number of Pool A conferences). Please read back to find my discussions about the number of Pool B this year.
Because we are blessed with the number of Pool C bids, everyone else, who doesn't get a Pool A or Pool B bid, goes into Pool C to be reconsidered.
This is kinda like determining the 3018th finisher in the New York City Marathon.
Bingo, right there in the middle of a pack of 200 runners who are crossing the finish line in one big mass, after 26.2 miles, the judges determine that one person is the 3018th finisher and gets the last prize!
Future of D-III (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3880.1530)
As for how a conference wishes to reward its Pool A, that allows conferences to award the regular season champ with the bid as the UAA does or to hold the incentive open to teams to keep on getting better for the post-season. I aveor conference autonomy. I think that it is fair to hang a "regular season" championship banner and then hold the tourney for the national championship, another chance for a banner.
In fact the post-season tourney that Chapman attended last weekend is a creation of the Association of D-III Independents to give more chances at the post-season.
You won't see every Pool B school, so the current arrangement has evolved to give a reasonable access to the tourney. The Pool B bid number is determined by dividing the number of Pool B schools by the access ratio (the number of members of Pool A conferences divided by the number of Pool A conferences). Please read back to find my discussions about the number of Pool B this year.
Because we are blessed with the number of Pool C bids, everyone else, who doesn't get a Pool A or Pool B bid, goes into Pool C to be reconsidered.
This is kinda like determining the 3018th finisher in the New York City Marathon.
Bingo, right there in the middle of a pack of 200 runners who are crossing the finish line in one big mass, after 26.2 miles, the judges determine that one person is the 3018th finisher and gets the last prize!
Future of D-III (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=3880.1530)
As for how a conference wishes to reward its Pool A, that allows conferences to award the regular season champ with the bid as the UAA does or to hold the incentive open to teams to keep on getting better for the post-season. I aveor conference autonomy. I think that it is fair to hang a "regular season" championship banner and then hold the tourney for the national championship, another chance for a banner.
In fact the post-season tourney that Chapman attended last weekend is a creation of the Association of D-III Independents to give more chances at the post-season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 09:07:05 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 09:07:05 PM
I am glad to see this conversation has evolved from everyone hating on Chapman to more reasonable questions pertaining to the NCAA D3 playoffs. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 09:07:33 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 09:07:33 PM
What I think the current Pool B crew is losing sight of is that Pool B is a damn sight better than how independents would've gotten in the tournament before. The honest truth is, you had no guaranteed path to the tournament whatsoever. Now you have the SAME ratio of bids set aside for your group as the rest of Division III has set aside for its group. That's about as fair as you're going to get.
Now, Chapman didn't qualify under this system for one of the three bids set aside specifically for it to compete for. If Chapman had proven itself worthy on the floor, it could have gotten a bid to the tournament. Championship access is there, and the so-called "power conferences" willingly gave up some of their access to the tournament in order to give access to everyone else.
Division III has bent over backwards for this, and in many sports it is to the detriment of the overall quality of the tournament field. Clearly Chapman fans don't like the system, but it's as good as it's going to get. Now you have to have your administration FINALLY get with the program and schedule like you're interested in making the tournament.
I listened to Chapman types whine in 2001 about not getting in at 20-5. Chapman has only gotten marginally better in scheduling since then. At least San Jose Christian, LIFE Bible and Southwestern College (you know, Southwestern Bible in Arizona) are gone. But after now 10 years of the Pools system, Chapman men's basketball should have figured it out.
Now, Chapman didn't qualify under this system for one of the three bids set aside specifically for it to compete for. If Chapman had proven itself worthy on the floor, it could have gotten a bid to the tournament. Championship access is there, and the so-called "power conferences" willingly gave up some of their access to the tournament in order to give access to everyone else.
Division III has bent over backwards for this, and in many sports it is to the detriment of the overall quality of the tournament field. Clearly Chapman fans don't like the system, but it's as good as it's going to get. Now you have to have your administration FINALLY get with the program and schedule like you're interested in making the tournament.
I listened to Chapman types whine in 2001 about not getting in at 20-5. Chapman has only gotten marginally better in scheduling since then. At least San Jose Christian, LIFE Bible and Southwestern College (you know, Southwestern Bible in Arizona) are gone. But after now 10 years of the Pools system, Chapman men's basketball should have figured it out.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 09:17:01 PM
Post by: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 09:17:01 PM
Serious question here, not trying to be a wise guy nor trying to start conflict. I just want to understand how a team 24-3 is not worthy enough in a field of 60. Yes I understand their strength of schedule is pathetic, but beating any team 5 times is not an easy thing to do. Should they have beaten Whitworth, maybe not, Whitman, should have, Dallas, absolutely. But winning 24 games is an impressive feat to accomplish. Yes La Sierra is not very good, but Chapman still beat them 5 times.
Another question, what SOS number is good to have? 250 below? 300 below? Like i said, not trying to whine or stir up conflict, just looking for the input of what others think. ???
Another question, what SOS number is good to have? 250 below? 300 below? Like i said, not trying to whine or stir up conflict, just looking for the input of what others think. ???
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2009, 09:42:09 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2009, 09:42:09 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 09:17:01 PM
Serious question here, not trying to be a wise guy nor trying to start conflict. I just want to understand how a team 24-3 is not worthy enough in a field of 60.
It is schedule. However, there is also an issue of wins. I think Chapman would have had a case if they has been able to beat one of the top teams. Their signature win was over CMS in the very first game of the year.
They had a tough game against Whitworth, but there were no challenges at the end of the year at all. Eight games against LaSierra and Santa Cruz reflects poorly on the schedule.
I think if Chapman had scheduled some more regional opponents with a better cross reference (like UDallas) it would have helped (especially because a solid team would win a few of them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 03, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
Post by: ronk on March 03, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
Here's a Pool B question from a different angle:
Why's the Landmark placed in Pool B in the 1st place? Al least half of the schools have been in D3 from the beginning of D3? What's the NCAA trying to achieve/avoid with this policy?
Why's the Landmark placed in Pool B in the 1st place? Al least half of the schools have been in D3 from the beginning of D3? What's the NCAA trying to achieve/avoid with this policy?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2009, 10:07:53 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 03, 2009, 10:07:53 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
Here's a Pool B question from a different angle:
Why's the Landmark placed in Pool B in the 1st place? Al least half of the schools have been in D3 from the beginning of D3? What's the NCAA trying to achieve/avoid with this policy?
The NCAA wants to make sure the conference is solid before giving them an AQ. You wouldn't want schools hopping from conference to conference simply for a better chance at the post-season.
Not that those scenarios are that likely, but you know someone would push the envelope if it was available.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 10:10:49 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2009, 10:10:49 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 09:17:01 PM
Serious question here, not trying to be a wise guy nor trying to start conflict. I just want to understand how a team 24-3 is not worthy enough in a field of 60.
...
Another question, what SOS number is good to have? 250 below? 300 below? Like i said, not trying to whine or stir up conflict, just looking for the input of what others think. ???
I look at it this way. In the "3-bid conference" that is Pool B, Chapman lost two games (Whitman 9-16 overall / 5-11 in the NWC and UDallas 9-18 overall) that disqualified itself. Chapman did not beat weak teams like Whitman and UDallas.
Look carefully at the Pool C teams that are sitting home.
My alma mater, McMurry was South Region #4 in the February 11th regional rankings (15-6/ 14-4 south region). That week we traveled 350 miles to Alpine TX (elevation 4450 feet above sea level) and lost 56-59 at Sul Ross (8-17, all wins were at home). IMHO, that loss alone may have cost us the Pool C. That is fair. We did not win a game that a Pool C team should have won. We lost in the tourney to another team that was regionally that week. We did not do what we needed to do.
Chapman would have had an almost irrefutable case, if they had lost only one game, Whitworth.
Pat runs into this year after year. I wish we had the message board from 2002 2003. Chapman fans were saying the same thing then.
Baseball has figured it out. Let that be your guide.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 10:28:29 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2009, 10:28:29 PM
Quote from: The Wiz on March 03, 2009, 09:17:01 PM
Another question, what SOS number is good to have? 250 below? 300 below? Like i said, not trying to whine or stir up conflict, just looking for the input of what others think. ???
Among the final Pool C teams we looked at, ones that got in had an opponents winning percentage around .500 or above. Buena Vista's was .464, Randolph-Macon's was .481, St. Mary's was .475 and Calvin's was .496.
Franklin and Marshall was .535, Trinity (Texas) was .496, Farmingdale was .502, Amherst was .535.
Where that falls in the ranking itself may vary from year to year.
And remember that OWP is calculated while omitting the games you played against the team. So the 17 losses that Chapman inflicted on its opponents (and three wins) are removed from the equation.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: The Wiz on March 04, 2009, 01:17:06 AM
Post by: The Wiz on March 04, 2009, 01:17:06 AM
Fair enough. I hope Chapman figures the system out so their players have a chance to play on the big stage. Thanks for the input!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2009, 04:46:28 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2009, 04:46:28 AM
Quote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
Here's a Pool B question from a different angle:
Why's the Landmark placed in Pool B in the 1st place? Al least half of the schools have been in D3 from the beginning of D3? What's the NCAA trying to achieve/avoid with this policy?
New conferences are not given a Pool A bid for two years. NECC is in that situation this year and next (Elms) and the Landmark will get a Pool A bid next season (along with the UMAC???). The idea is to keep things stable. If the Landmark had formed and after a year several schools left and others entered, the NCAA would have foolishly given a conference an automatic bid when that conference probably didn't deserve it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: susiddad on March 04, 2009, 09:26:56 AM
Post by: susiddad on March 04, 2009, 09:26:56 AM
Pat,
How far was SU behind Maryville? Did SU pass Chapman? Last Pool B team on the outside looking in was?
Thanks.
How far was SU behind Maryville? Did SU pass Chapman? Last Pool B team on the outside looking in was?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 04, 2009, 11:33:54 AM
Post by: ronk on March 04, 2009, 11:33:54 AM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 04, 2009, 04:46:28 AMQuote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
Here's a Pool B question from a different angle:
Why's the Landmark placed in Pool B in the 1st place? Al least half of the schools have been in D3 from the beginning of D3? What's the NCAA trying to achieve/avoid with this policy?
New conferences are not given a Pool A bid for two years. NECC is in that situation this year and next (Elms) and the Landmark will get a Pool A bid next season (along with the UMAC???). The idea is to keep things stable. If the Landmark had formed and after a year several schools left and others entered, the NCAA would have foolishly given a conference an automatic bid when that conference probably didn't deserve it.
Dmac,
Deserving is in the eye of the beholder. I argue that with all their D3 history, these schools are at least as worthy as any others that have an AQ. They have a lot more stability than the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth over the same years.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2009, 11:34:50 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2009, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: susiddad on March 04, 2009, 09:26:56 AM
Pat,
How far was SU behind Maryville? Did SU pass Chapman? Last Pool B team on the outside looking in was?
Thanks.
In my opinion ... and it's just my opinion ... Susquehanna was fourth, not very far behind Maryville but far enough so that it was a clear fourth.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2009, 11:36:39 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2009, 11:36:39 AM
Quote from: ronk on March 04, 2009, 11:33:54 AMQuote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 04, 2009, 04:46:28 AMQuote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
Here's a Pool B question from a different angle:
Why's the Landmark placed in Pool B in the 1st place? Al least half of the schools have been in D3 from the beginning of D3? What's the NCAA trying to achieve/avoid with this policy?
New conferences are not given a Pool A bid for two years. NECC is in that situation this year and next (Elms) and the Landmark will get a Pool A bid next season (along with the UMAC???). The idea is to keep things stable. If the Landmark had formed and after a year several schools left and others entered, the NCAA would have foolishly given a conference an automatic bid when that conference probably didn't deserve it.
Dmac,
Deserving is in the eye of the beholder. I argue that with all their D3 history, these schools are at least as worthy as any others that have an AQ. They have a lot more stability than the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth over the same years.
In hindsight, they do. But automatic bids aren't handed out in hindsight. And it's not like the Landmark has all eight of its original members, right? The school you follow wasn't even in the conference when it was first announced.
Plus, if the NCAA started waiving its rules there would be a lot more conference asking for the same.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2009, 03:15:37 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 04, 2009, 03:15:37 PM
Plus the fact... all of these teams left their own conferences creating the chaos in the MACF and MACC and others... so you can't automatically say it was going to be stable! And it proved it wasn't in a weird 24 hour period (Stevens!).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 04, 2009, 10:59:55 PM
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 04, 2009, 10:59:55 PM
The Chapman men's program has been on the short end of the selection due to their scheduling. As evidence of this, the women's program has made multiple trips to play at Colorado College during the past decade. The men's team, despite being invited each year, would not make that trip. They did however make several trips to Hawaii to play non D-3 games so hard to believe it was a budget issue.
Additionally, they could never seem to make it to the Cactus Jam in Phoenix but found a way to get to Phoenix to play Non D3 Southwestern several times.
If the assistant coach had worked as hard at scheduling and/or fundraising as he has at complaining about the selection system over the years it is highly likely that they would have been in the tournament several times.
The real disappointment should be for the quality players who were never given the right opportunity to make the tournament as they have had good teams and players during this decade.
Additionally, they could never seem to make it to the Cactus Jam in Phoenix but found a way to get to Phoenix to play Non D3 Southwestern several times.
If the assistant coach had worked as hard at scheduling and/or fundraising as he has at complaining about the selection system over the years it is highly likely that they would have been in the tournament several times.
The real disappointment should be for the quality players who were never given the right opportunity to make the tournament as they have had good teams and players during this decade.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2009, 11:07:49 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2009, 11:07:49 PM
Well stated, Westwhisperer.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2009, 11:14:51 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2009, 11:14:51 PM
Quote from: ronk on March 04, 2009, 11:33:54 AMI agree with Pat and Dave about the Landmark.Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 04, 2009, 04:46:28 AMQuote from: ronk on March 03, 2009, 10:03:03 PM
Here's a Pool B question from a different angle:
Why's the Landmark placed in Pool B in the 1st place? Al least half of the schools have been in D3 from the beginning of D3? What's the NCAA trying to achieve/avoid with this policy?
New conferences are not given a Pool A bid for two years. NECC is in that situation this year and next (Elms) and the Landmark will get a Pool A bid next season (along with the UMAC???). The idea is to keep things stable. If the Landmark had formed and after a year several schools left and others entered, the NCAA would have foolishly given a conference an automatic bid when that conference probably didn't deserve it.
Dmac,
Deserving is in the eye of the beholder. I argue that with all their D3 history, these schools are at least as worthy as any others that have an AQ. They have a lot more stability than the MAC Freedom and Commonwealth over the same years.
I remind us that these schools were dissatisfied with their previous peers.
They tore apart conferences with long histories. The creation of the Landmark Conference disrupted the integrity and composition of the Capital AC, the Commonwealth, the Freedom, the Pennsylvania/Colonial States, the North Eastern AC, the AMCC, the Skyline and the NAC, otherwise known as the mid-Atlantic shuffle.
They decided to align themselves into a new, exclusive conference that ostensibly has a mission and vision that is different to their previous conference homes.
This is a new creation.
The membership of Division III has determined an equitable and logical process by which new conferences may come into being, with full privileges of membership.
That is what the Landmark Conference is doing right now. When the Landmark Conference is granted full membership status, we can greet them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2009, 12:03:29 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2009, 12:03:29 AM
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 04, 2009, 10:59:55 PM
If the assistant coach had worked as hard at scheduling and/or fundraising as he has at complaining about the selection system over the years it is highly likely that they would have been in the tournament several times.
There certainly has been a lot of complaining, but does the assistant coach (who isn't there anymore anyway) usually have that power over the schedule?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 05, 2009, 01:00:14 AM
Post by: oldchap on March 05, 2009, 01:00:14 AM
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 04, 2009, 10:59:55 PM
If the assistant coach had worked as hard at scheduling and/or fundraising as he has at complaining about the selection system over the years it is highly likely that they would have been in the tournament several times.
Who is generally in charge of scheduling at the school? Wouldn't it be the coach who manages the men's basketball budget and ultimately decide which tournaments to attend and which teams to play? Do the coach and the assistants understand the importance of scheduling better teams in order to make it into the tournament? Perhaps the coach's goal is to pad his win/loss ratio or make the school look good from an outsider's point of view by just having a great win/loss ratio, and neither the school nor the coach really care to make it to the tournament? Another possibility is that the coach is torn between having a great looking win/loss ratio and a good OWP and errs on the side of caution by scheduling teams that are too easy.
These are pure speculations on my part, but the situation does beg these questions. If you read their end of season press release, it sounds more like whining and feeling snubbed than really understanding what the real issues are. Here is an excerpt of that article, it comes from the Chapman website:
QuoteWINS RECORD AND DIII INDEPENDENTS CROWN, BUT NO STILL NO NCAAS
ORANGE, Calif. – The Chapman University men's basketball team swept through the Division III Independents West Region Postseason Tournament for its fourth consecutive championship, concluding the regular season on a 10-game winning streak and setting a new school (Division III) record for wins this weekend. Yet when all was said and done, the Panthers are still left on the outside looking in at the NCAA Division III "dance".
Chapman (24-3) did not receive a berth in this year's 60-team NCAA postseason bracket, despite winning more games this season than any Panther team since 1959-60. The Panthers have won 20 or more games in four consecutive seasons, but have yet to earn the elusive at-large berth for Division III independent schools.
The Panthers were even among the top-35 teams in the country to receive votes for the D3Hoops.com national poll and lead all of Division III in defense, allowing opponents just 56.4 points per game.
With 17 years of experience and a great record, you would think Coach Bokoski (who by the way, I think is an outstanding coach) knows better...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2009, 01:26:49 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2009, 01:26:49 AM
Quote from: oldchap on March 05, 2009, 01:00:14 AMQuote from: Westwhisperer on March 04, 2009, 10:59:55 PM
If the assistant coach had worked as hard at scheduling and/or fundraising as he has at complaining about the selection system over the years it is highly likely that they would have been in the tournament several times.
Who is generally in charge of scheduling at the school? Wouldn't it be the coach who manages the men's basketball budget and ultimately decide which tournaments to attend and which teams to play? Do the coach and the assistants understand the importance of scheduling better teams in order to make it into the tournament? Perhaps the coach's goal is to pad his win/loss ratio or make the school look good from an outsider's point of view by just having a great win/loss ratio, and neither the school nor the coach really care to make it to the tournament? Another possibility is that the coach is torn between having a great looking win/loss ratio and a good OWP and errs on the side of caution by scheduling teams that are too easy.
These are pure speculations on my part, but the situation does beg these questions. If you read their end of season press release, it sounds more like whining and feeling snubbed than really understanding what the real issues are. Here is an excerpt of that article, it comes from the Chapman website:QuoteWINS RECORD AND DIII INDEPENDENTS CROWN, BUT NO STILL NO NCAAS
ORANGE, Calif. – The Chapman University men's basketball team swept through the Division III Independents West Region Postseason Tournament for its fourth consecutive championship, concluding the regular season on a 10-game winning streak and setting a new school (Division III) record for wins this weekend. Yet when all was said and done, the Panthers are still left on the outside looking in at the NCAA Division III "dance".
Chapman (24-3) did not receive a berth in this year's 60-team NCAA postseason bracket, despite winning more games this season than any Panther team since 1959-60. The Panthers have won 20 or more games in four consecutive seasons, but have yet to earn the elusive at-large berth for Division III independent schools.
The Panthers were even among the top-35 teams in the country to receive votes for the D3Hoops.com national poll and lead all of Division III in defense, allowing opponents just 56.4 points per game.
With 17 years of experience and a great record, you would think Coach Bokoski (who by the way, I think is an outstanding coach) knows better...
That DOES indeed sound like a 'head-in-the-sand' whine. U-Dallas once made it in to Pool B with a 13-12 record. Pool B is NOT some conspiracy against independents. Most years it is EASIER than for teams in high-level conferences. (Actually, make that ALL years - I don't think there has ever been a Pool B team left out who would have even 'sniffed' a Pool C bid.)
Since the SCIAC is apparently never going to admit you (I have no knowledge as to why), your only recourse is to upgrade the schedule. When even 24-3 can't get it done (rightly, IMO), there is obviously a scheduling problem. Good suggestions have been offered - either pressure the 'powers to be' to adopt them, or stop complaining. The problem is not with 'the system'; the problem is with Chapman schedule-makers.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 05, 2009, 02:40:06 AM
Post by: oldchap on March 05, 2009, 02:40:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2009, 01:26:49 AMI may be wrong, but from what I can make of what I've been told, the members of SCIAC say that Chapman is too big (roughly double or more the enrollment of most schools in the SCIAC). In addition, Chapman keeps growing, while the SCIAC schools are pretty stable. That may make the SCIAC members feel that they would bring in a school that is going to be "too" competitive and take away chances at playoff berths.
Since the SCIAC is apparently never going to admit you (I have no knowledge as to why),
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2009, 01:26:49 AM
When even 24-3 can't get it done (rightly, IMO), there is obviously a scheduling problem. Good suggestions have been offered - either pressure the 'powers to be' to adopt them, or stop complaining. The problem is not with 'the system'; the problem is with Chapman schedule-makers.
I understand and I agree, now that I fully understand how the process works. Although, as a parent, it's certainly not my prerogative to pressure the "powers to be". I would think the assistant coaches read the forums, though...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2009, 09:38:10 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2009, 09:38:10 AM
Oldchap, thanks for the Chapman press release!
+1!
+1!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Agreed that the assistant coach who was the genesis of annual "Chapman Whine" is no longer with the program. No confusion towards current assistants intended.
In some ways the pool B route can be easier than an AQ, especially if you are trying to get the AQ in a tough conference. The pool B route in the West region however, is perhaps the toughest of all due to the overall strength of the region (not many weak conferences or bad teams) and geography.
Having coached the last pool B entrant from the West I can tell you that it takes a good players, a well thought out schedule, consistent performance in the "big" games and perhaps even a little luck. Chapman has managed 2 or 3 of those variables in most years.
I believe they have been a better team than some of the pool B selections in recent years but my subjective appraisal (nor anyone else's) will ever be used to make the selection. The criteria is readily available and pretty straightforward.
Our scheduling strategy was to play teams from the lesser conferences (which in the West Region are still pretty strong) who would finish in the middle third of the conference, ideally on a neutral court (counted as an away game). Losing to the 6th place team in the Wisconsin league at home does the most damage. Beating the 3rd place SCIAC team on a neutral floor is much better.
Chapman has a huge advantage relative to the other West Region independents in that they have the majority of the scheduling recipe in their geographic backyard.
In some ways the pool B route can be easier than an AQ, especially if you are trying to get the AQ in a tough conference. The pool B route in the West region however, is perhaps the toughest of all due to the overall strength of the region (not many weak conferences or bad teams) and geography.
Having coached the last pool B entrant from the West I can tell you that it takes a good players, a well thought out schedule, consistent performance in the "big" games and perhaps even a little luck. Chapman has managed 2 or 3 of those variables in most years.
I believe they have been a better team than some of the pool B selections in recent years but my subjective appraisal (nor anyone else's) will ever be used to make the selection. The criteria is readily available and pretty straightforward.
Our scheduling strategy was to play teams from the lesser conferences (which in the West Region are still pretty strong) who would finish in the middle third of the conference, ideally on a neutral court (counted as an away game). Losing to the 6th place team in the Wisconsin league at home does the most damage. Beating the 3rd place SCIAC team on a neutral floor is much better.
Chapman has a huge advantage relative to the other West Region independents in that they have the majority of the scheduling recipe in their geographic backyard.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2009, 10:27:58 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2009, 10:27:58 AM
However, the Pool B's are actually a single national conference! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2009, 10:28:49 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2009, 10:28:49 AM
First Round Tourney matchups
POOL A v POOL B
Elms (B) vs. SUNYIT (A)
POOL C v POOL B
Maryville (Tenn) (B) at Trinity (Texas) (C)
Brandeis (C) vs. Scranton (B)
Thanks to Old school for the list.
POOL A v POOL B
Elms (B) vs. SUNYIT (A)
POOL C v POOL B
Maryville (Tenn) (B) at Trinity (Texas) (C)
Brandeis (C) vs. Scranton (B)
Thanks to Old school for the list.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2009, 02:08:03 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2009, 02:08:03 PM
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Chapman has a huge advantage relative to the other West Region independents in that they have the majority of the scheduling recipe in their geographic backyard.
Exactly. Not only does Chapman have a full D3 league in its neighborhood, unlike Colorado College and Nebraska Wesleyan, it also has year-round sunshine. Opposing coaches aren't excited about traveling to Colorado Springs or Lincoln, for the most part, but they are interested in scheduling snowbird trips to sunny SoCal. Chapman's got warm weather from November thru February, and that's a lure that the coach of the Panthers should be using to his advantage.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 05, 2009, 07:27:27 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 05, 2009, 07:27:27 PM
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
In some ways the pool B route can be easier than an AQ, especially if you are trying to get the AQ in a tough conference. The pool B route in the West region however, is perhaps the toughest of all due to the overall strength of the region (not many weak conferences or bad teams) and geography.
Now that I understand the process better, I can see that sometimes getting in as a Pool B can be easier than a team which is part of a really tough Conference. I equate the D3 playoffs to the soccer World Cup in some ways. Essentially, the NCAA isn't trying to get the absolute best teams to the tournament. It tries to balance participation and competition. In fact, if you belong to one of the 39 Conferences which get an AQ, and you happen to be in a weak Conference, all you need to do is to win the title to get into the tournament. You may not go past the first or second round, but at least you will have had the pride and honor to be part of the competition.
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
I believe they have been a better team than some of the pool B selections in recent years but my subjective appraisal (nor anyone else's) will ever be used to make the selection. The criteria is readily available and pretty straightforward.
You are absolutely right, although, as you said, this is a subjective call. What has been a frustrating experience for me over the last few weeks is to see what I believe to be a team which could potentially make a run in the playoffs, but doesn't get the chance that other teams, of equal or lesser strength, will have.
To pick up on my last metaphore, teams like Togo or Trinidad and Tobago made it to the 2006 World Cup, while secondary Europeans powers such as Romania or Greece (which won the European championship in 2004) didn't, despite the fact that they are clearly better teams. The process by which these teams were picked is clearly defined and everyone knows what the rules are. In many ways, the same holds true with the D3 selection process. It is what it is and the rules are known well in advance. The Chapman coaching staff should do their best to "manipulate" the system to their advantage so that they have more chances to get into the tournament.
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Our scheduling strategy was to play teams from the lesser conferences (which in the West Region are still pretty strong) who would finish in the middle third of the conference, ideally on a neutral court (counted as an away game). Losing to the 6th place team in the Wisconsin league at home does the most damage. Beating the 3rd place SCIAC team on a neutral floor is much better.
I have been told on this board that home versus away versus neutral didn't count. In what way do you think it has an influence?
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 09:56:05 AM
Chapman has a huge advantage relative to the other West Region independents in that they have the majority of the scheduling recipe in their geographic backyard.
Having the SCIAC in our backyard is good but only up to some point. The SCIAC teams don't want to play non conference games once conference play has started. So, Chapman is in this predicament where they could schedule more games in November and December, but then their schedule would get pretty thin during Conference play. This would be hard on the players because the ratio practice/game would be demotivating, I think. That's why they fill their schedule with non D3 schools such as West Coast Baptist. It pads their win/loss record and makes everybody feel good, but does nothing for the playoffs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on March 05, 2009, 08:57:55 PM
Post by: Just Bill on March 05, 2009, 08:57:55 PM
QuoteYou are absolutely right, although, as you said, this is a subjective call. What has been a frustrating experience for me over the last few weeks is to see what I believe to be a team which could potentially make a run in the playoffs, but doesn't get the chance that other teams, of equal or lesser strength, will have.
True of course, but if you've been familiar with ANY NCAA tournament in the last 30 years, this shouldn't have come as a surprise to you. Does the America East champ have a better chance to go deep than the 6th place ACC team? Probably not, but the NCAA believes in equal access, so the American East champ gets to go.
Really, it's an area where I commend the NCAA. If they really wanted to go for the money grab, they'd drop all the AQ's and put in the top 64 teams on RPI. Then none of the "no-name" schools would ever get in.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 11:32:02 PM
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 11:32:02 PM
Well for years Chapman had the opportunity to play Colorado College in Jan and Feb and passed unless we came to CA (usually Santa Cruz). The NCAA doesn't care when you play the games as we didn't have many West Region games after December.
I'm not sure if the current criteria factors in the home, away and neutral status of the games, but it did back then and it was our job to understand the criteria and give the student-athletes the best possible chance to earn the bid.
We (including yours truly) drove vans from CSprings to Phoenix to play in the Cactus Jam and then on to Socal where we beat Laverne on a neutral court and CMS on their home court before driving back to CSprings where we beat Nebraska Wesleyan a few days later to "earn" our bid.
Hard to have any sympathy for the Chapman staff who has a much better landscape to work on. At a higher level the media would call them out on this but thanks to Pat and the D3Hoops organization I would say they have been effectively called out at this point.
I'm not sure if the current criteria factors in the home, away and neutral status of the games, but it did back then and it was our job to understand the criteria and give the student-athletes the best possible chance to earn the bid.
We (including yours truly) drove vans from CSprings to Phoenix to play in the Cactus Jam and then on to Socal where we beat Laverne on a neutral court and CMS on their home court before driving back to CSprings where we beat Nebraska Wesleyan a few days later to "earn" our bid.
Hard to have any sympathy for the Chapman staff who has a much better landscape to work on. At a higher level the media would call them out on this but thanks to Pat and the D3Hoops organization I would say they have been effectively called out at this point.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on March 06, 2009, 01:39:48 AM
Post by: OxyBob on March 06, 2009, 01:39:48 AM
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 11:32:02 PM
Hard to have any sympathy for the Chapman staff who has a much better landscape to work on. At a higher level the media would call them out on this but thanks to Pat and the D3Hoops organization I would say they have been effectively called out at this point.
Quote
2009-2010 Chapman University Men's Basketball Schedule
Nov. 16 Chapman Faculty Lunchtime Team (scrimmage)
Nov. 18 Orange High School (exhibition)
Nov. 21 at La Verne
Caltech-Chapman Thanksgiving Tournament at Caltech
Participants: Caltech, Chapman, La Verne, New England College
Nov. 27 New England College
Nov. 28 La Verne
Chapman-Caltech Pre-Christmas Tournament at Chapman
Particpnats: Chapman, Caltech, UC Santa Cruz, La Sierra
Dec. 5 La Sierra
Dec. 6 UC Santa Cruz
D-III Independents Holiday Tournament at UC Santa Cruz
Participants: UC Santa Cruz, Chapman, La Sierra, Maine-Presque Isle, Rust,Nebraska Wesleyan(scratched)
Dec. 11 La Sierra
Dec. 12 Maine-Presque Isle
Dec. 13Nebraska WesleyanLa Sierra
Dec. 19 at Caltech
Dec. 23 at Los Angeles Trade Tech
Dec. 30La Sierra(canceled)
Whittier New Year's Holiday Tournament
Participants: Whittier, Chapman, La Sierra, La Verne
Jan. 2 La Sierra
Jan. 3 La Verne
Jan. 9 La Sierra (make-up game from Dec. 30)
Jan. 16 West Coast Baptist
Jan. 22 Golden State Baptist
Jan. 23 at West Coast Baptist
Jan. 24 The 5 big guys who play in Eisenhower Park
Jan. 30 at La Sierra
Feb. 6 Braille Institute of Los Angeles
Feb. 10 UC Santa Cruz
Feb. 13 at Golden State Baptist
Feb. 17 La Sierra
Feb. 20 West Coast Baptist
Feb. 24 at La Sierra
D-III Independents Postseason Tournament
Feb. 27 UC Santa Cruz
Feb. 28 La Sierra
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 06, 2009, 08:56:40 AM
Post by: Westwhisperer on March 06, 2009, 08:56:40 AM
That is priceless. The irony is that I didn't catch on until I got to the 5 guys in the park date!
Joking aside I do feel for the players who were never given the best possible opportunity to earn the bid due to scheduling. That is, after all, what this is about.
Joking aside I do feel for the players who were never given the best possible opportunity to earn the bid due to scheduling. That is, after all, what this is about.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 06, 2009, 10:12:06 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 06, 2009, 10:12:06 AM
Maryville was not able to deal with Trinity TX in their gym but the youngsters got some motivational experiences that will help them get a Bumblers Bid next year and then do a better job representing the Bumbler Class. It's up to Elms and Scranton this year! Good luck from Tennessee.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on March 06, 2009, 11:53:36 AM
Post by: dahlby on March 06, 2009, 11:53:36 AM
Let's see, 8-0 against SCIAC, maybe our OWP and OOWP will improve with this tougher competition.
PS; You forgot about the Venice Beach and Laguna Beach Invitationals. And of course there is the Midnight Madness Fraternity Classic!!!
PS; You forgot about the Venice Beach and Laguna Beach Invitationals. And of course there is the Midnight Madness Fraternity Classic!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on March 06, 2009, 11:56:31 AM
Post by: Just Bill on March 06, 2009, 11:56:31 AM
Quote from: Westwhisperer on March 05, 2009, 11:32:02 PM
I'm not sure if the current criteria factors in the home, away and neutral status of the games, but it did back then and it was our job to understand the criteria and give the student-athletes the best possible chance to earn the bid.
This is no longer factored in numerically (like the old QOWI), but it is likely considered by the committees when discussing things like "results vs. ranked teams".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2009, 12:16:28 PM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2009, 12:16:28 PM
They sure like La Sierra! And I thought it was bad when Eau Claire played Finlandia, only three times!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 06, 2009, 02:09:06 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 06, 2009, 02:09:06 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2009, 12:16:28 PM
They sure like La Sierra! And I thought it was bad when Eau Claire played Finlandia, only three times!!
Chapman cannot escape playing La Sierra because there are only 3 Independents within driving distance in the West (Chapman, UC Santa Cruz and La Sierra). The fact that they played them 5 times this year is a total fluke: Pomona and CLU couldn't agree on game schedules, despite the fact that they had both committed to play Chapman, and Weslayan Nebraska pulled out of the Independent tournament at the last minute because of money problems. The coaching staff had to scramble to find ways to fill the schedule.
The argument has been beaten into a pulp. Oxybob's mock schedule is hilarious, but he should be a little more sensitive to the players who are working really hard and don't see their efforts rewarded. If I was in their shoes, I would be offended.
Next year, I hear that they will play La Sierra ONLY 3 times, still pretty bad, but it's no different than CMS playing Pomona three times this year. Chapman would love to chose tougher Independent opponents but they're all back East.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: TeeDub on March 06, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
Post by: TeeDub on March 06, 2009, 03:03:06 PM
Quote from: oldchap on March 06, 2009, 02:09:06 PM
Next year, I hear that they will play La Sierra ONLY 3 times, still pretty bad, but it's no different than CMS playing Pomona three times this year.
I bet playing Pomona three times in a year is just a little different than playing La Sierra...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 06, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
Post by: Ron Boerger on March 06, 2009, 03:52:28 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 06, 2009, 10:12:06 AM
Maryville was not able to deal with Trinity TX in their gym but the youngsters got some motivational experiences that will help them get a Bumblers Bid next year and then do a better job representing the Bumbler Class. It's up to Elms and Scranton this year! Good luck from Tennessee.
Maryville played well given the circumstances. They just couldn't buy a three until it was too late. There are some good ballers on that squad.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2009, 10:08:30 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2009, 10:08:30 PM
Scranton goes down to Brandeis and Elms is a few seconds away. We've wiped out Pool B in round 1.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2009, 10:19:31 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2009, 10:19:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2009, 10:08:30 PM
Scranton goes down to Brandeis and Elms is a few seconds away. We've wiped out Pool B in round 1.
While we love 'em, there's a reason they're the 'bumblin's'! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 07, 2009, 12:08:46 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 07, 2009, 12:08:46 AM
Maryville will be better next year, if nobody gets hurt or cannot find the money for school. All but one person who played any will be back as will a junior who was hurt all year whom many of the Scots' observers at the beginning of this year thought was the Scots best player. Adding him into the returning bunch will be an interesting challenge and the result should make this team better able to not bumble.
What are next year's projections for Elms, Scranton, Chapman, and Susquehanna and the rest of the Bumbler hopefuls?
What are next year's projections for Elms, Scranton, Chapman, and Susquehanna and the rest of the Bumbler hopefuls?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 07, 2009, 01:50:36 AM
Post by: ronk on March 07, 2009, 01:50:36 AM
Scranton, Susquehanna, and the rest of the Landmark will no longer be official Bumblers. I overestimated Elms, having them reach the championship game. Ralph has stated Elms' Bumbler status for next year earlier on this board. Arrivirderce!!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 07, 2009, 02:06:28 AM
Post by: oldchap on March 07, 2009, 02:06:28 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 07, 2009, 12:08:46 AM
What are next year's projections for Elms, Scranton, Chapman, and Susquehanna and the rest of the Bumbler hopefuls?
Chapman will also be better. They are only losing 2 seniors, both non starters. Of course, both will be missed, as one was a tremendous 3 pt shooter (46%) and the other one was bringing a positive attitude, maturity and was a role model for the younger players. However, all five starters are returning, along with some young players who have already had an impact this year. Some of the freshmen on this team have tremendous potential and will bring much needed depth to the squad.
Assuming the coaching staff puts together a strong enough schedule and they stay healthy, they should have a decent shot at a Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2009, 02:48:04 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2009, 02:48:04 AM
Quote from: ronk on March 07, 2009, 01:50:36 AM
I overestimated Elms, having them reach the championship game.
Of what?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 09:13:11 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 09:13:11 AM
Final summary -- Bumblin' B's 2009
Maryville LOST at Trinity TX, 64-68 on Mar 5th.
Elms LOST to SUNYIT 77-85.
Scranton LOST to Brandeis 60-75.
Maryville LOST at Trinity TX, 64-68 on Mar 5th.
Elms LOST to SUNYIT 77-85.
Scranton LOST to Brandeis 60-75.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 10:55:32 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 10:55:32 AM
Projection for 2009-10 for the Bumblin' B's.
26 schools divided by an access ratio of 1.8.66 = 3.002. In 2008-09, the Access Ratio (the number of schools participating in Pool A conferences divided by the number of Pool A conferences) was 1:9.30.
26 Pool B schools divided by the 9.30 access ratio = 2.795
That looks like 2 Pool B bids next season.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 21, 2008, 09:20:32 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 21, 2008, 08:44:43 PM
Ralph, how many Bs are we looking at this year - or is that subject to change in February? :D
:D :D :D
So far, I identify these Pool B schools.
Northeast Region: 9 -- New England Collegiate Conference -7 plus8, includingprovisionalnew member Mitchell. NECC (http://www.neccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index) plus U Maine Presque Isle. (Year #1 (2008-09) in Pool B for the NECC as a conference.)
East Region: 0
Atlantic Region: 01 (USMMA from the Landmark Conference)
Mid-Atlantic Region: 07 (Landmark Conference schools. This (2008-09) should be the last year in Pool B for the Landmark Conference.)
South Region: 5 (GSAC-4 plus Rust). (UDallas is now an affiliate of the NEAC.)
Great Lakes: 1 (Finlandia)
Midwest Region: 0
West Region: 11 (UMAC-78plus 4th-year provisionalincluding new member Presentation; Neb Wesleyan; UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs; Chapman.) (This is the first year (2008-09) as a new conference for the UMAC.)
"The Provisional Pipeline" (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=35164) will contains14 schools in years 2-4 of the provisional status.
I count3226 schools in Pool B. That should mean 3 Pool B bids[/b]. In 2009-10, the Landmark goes Pool A. In 2010-11, the NECC and the UMAC go to Pool A. Only two provisional schools that become eligible in 2010-11 are not aligned with conferences. In the 2010-11 season, I count 13 schools in Pool B. (UMPI, Lancaster Bible, the GSAC-4, Rust, Finlandia, North Central MN, Neb Wes, Chapman, LaSierra, UC Santa Cruz) That should be one Pool B bid.
26 schools divided by an access ratio of 1.8.66 = 3.002. In 2008-09, the Access Ratio (the number of schools participating in Pool A conferences divided by the number of Pool A conferences) was 1:9.30.
26 Pool B schools divided by the 9.30 access ratio = 2.795
That looks like 2 Pool B bids next season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 07, 2009, 02:21:01 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 07, 2009, 02:21:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 10:55:32 AM
26 Pool B schools divided by the 9.30 access ratio = 2.795
That looks like 2 Pool B bids next season.
You lose a whole Pool B bid due to a .205 miss on the ratio?! Is this the way it's done, because it doesn't look fair to me? Wouldn't they round up in this case, because the ratio has just increase from 9.30 to 13, effectively taking away a 40% lesser chance to Pool B teams than the rest of the field.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2009, 02:22:08 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2009, 02:22:08 PM
That's the way it's done.
It's plenty fair -- if there is a third Pool B-eligible team that is good enough to make the field, they can also get a Pool C bid. If they're not good enough to get a Pool C bid then they don't belong in the tournament.
It's plenty fair -- if there is a third Pool B-eligible team that is good enough to make the field, they can also get a Pool C bid. If they're not good enough to get a Pool C bid then they don't belong in the tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2009, 05:05:08 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 07, 2009, 05:05:08 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2009, 02:22:08 PM
That's the way it's done.
It's plenty fair -- if there is a third Pool B-eligible team that is good enough to make the field, they can also get a Pool C bid. If they're not good enough to get a Pool C bid then they don't belong in the tournament.
That's the key to the fairness; they give the Pool B bids first. If a deserving team gets slighted, they can still compete for a Pool C slot with all the rest of the at-large teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 09:20:01 PM
Post by: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 09:20:01 PM
If the stated goal for pool b is to match the access ratios between pool a and pool b, then the NCAA is terrible at math. Assuming Ralphs numbers are good, then the actual access ratio for pool b teams will be 26/2=13! 13 schools for each gauranteed spot, compared to 9.3 schools for every gauranteed spot in pool a. Giving 3 pool b bids next year would make the pool be access ratio 26/3=8.67. 8.67 is much more comparable with 9.3 than 13!
And yes, of course a third pool b team could get a pool c. Just like a conference non-champion can get a pool c. Teams from conferences that qualify for pool c are getting bids beyond the 9.3 ratio.
Look, I understand that the power (rule makers) lies in the established conferences. These people consider the pool b system generous already. This is why they don't round up in the pool b calculation. However, in many years the equality is just not there. Maybe you should not round up if the calculation yields XX.5 because that could make the pool b access ratio significantly higher than pool a, and conference membership is encouraged in d3. However, rounding down from a high fraction is silly.
Simple Solution: I propose rounding down for all cases where the fraction is .75 or below. Anything above that gets rounded up. This prevents giving too much pool b access while also preventing pool b's from being hosed.
And yes, of course a third pool b team could get a pool c. Just like a conference non-champion can get a pool c. Teams from conferences that qualify for pool c are getting bids beyond the 9.3 ratio.
Look, I understand that the power (rule makers) lies in the established conferences. These people consider the pool b system generous already. This is why they don't round up in the pool b calculation. However, in many years the equality is just not there. Maybe you should not round up if the calculation yields XX.5 because that could make the pool b access ratio significantly higher than pool a, and conference membership is encouraged in d3. However, rounding down from a high fraction is silly.
Simple Solution: I propose rounding down for all cases where the fraction is .75 or below. Anything above that gets rounded up. This prevents giving too much pool b access while also preventing pool b's from being hosed.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2009, 09:22:55 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2009, 09:22:55 PM
Maybe if some of the Pool B schools would build a track record of competing well in the tournament, it might help the case. Maryville built quite the reputation over the last decade, but that's really just one school.
D3 lets any conference champion get in, so the basic requirement is simply being in a conference. It's incredibly generous that the independents get a shot; you'll never see anything like that at the D1 level.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 09:34:36 PM
Post by: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 09:34:36 PM
I don't want to do the research, but remember there are more sports than men's basketball. I am sure there have been successful pool b's in those sports (also a Maryville example but the Scots soccer team made the sweet 16 a couple years ago).
In any case, you could say that several conferences have not made a "good case" by not competing well in the tournament, and therefore should not have the same access as a strong conference. I am nt saying that, but that is essentially what you are saying if you use tournament performance as an argument to give one group less access than another.
Lastly, this is not d1. D1 budgets allow isolated schols to travel to join a conference. With a few exceptions like SCAC and UAA, D3 conferences are organized and driven by proximity. Not every school is so fortunate.
In any case, you could say that several conferences have not made a "good case" by not competing well in the tournament, and therefore should not have the same access as a strong conference. I am nt saying that, but that is essentially what you are saying if you use tournament performance as an argument to give one group less access than another.
Lastly, this is not d1. D1 budgets allow isolated schols to travel to join a conference. With a few exceptions like SCAC and UAA, D3 conferences are organized and driven by proximity. Not every school is so fortunate.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 10:19:33 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 10:19:33 PM
Quote from: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 09:20:01 PMActually the Maryville women got a Pool A bid by earning the conference AQ in a 7-team conference, which is the minimum number in a conference to be given a Pool A bid.
If the stated goal for pool b is to match the access ratios between pool a and pool b, then the NCAA is terrible at math. Assuming Ralphs numbers are good, then the actual access ratio for pool b teams will be 26/2=13! 13 schools for each gauranteed spot, compared to 9.3 schools for every gauranteed spot in pool a. Giving 3 pool b bids next year would make the pool be access ratio 26/3=8.67. 8.67 is much more comparable with 9.3 than 13!
And yes, of course a third pool b team could get a pool c. Just like a conference non-champion can get a pool c. Teams from conferences that qualify for pool c are getting bids beyond the 9.3 ratio.
Look, I understand that the power (rule makers) lies in the established conferences. These people consider the pool b system generous already. This is why they don't round up in the pool b calculation. However, in many years the equality is just not there. Maybe you should not round up if the calculation yields XX.5 because that could make the pool b access ratio significantly higher than pool a, and conference membership is encouraged in d3. However, rounding down from a high fraction is silly.
Simple Solution: I propose rounding down for all cases where the fraction is .75 or below. Anything above that gets rounded up. This prevents giving too much pool b access while also preventing pool b's from being hosed.
That is a gift right there.
In fact, wasn't the original goal of the GSAC to become a Pool A conference? Someone in that part of the country foresaw Fisk, Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont, Stillman and one more school becoming a Pool A men's conference. It hasn't worked out that way, yet.
Maryville has cleaned up in Men's Basketball in Pool B. I think that they are the favorites in 2010, along with Elms and then again in 2011 versus the field of "13".
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 10:34:04 PM
Post by: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 10:34:04 PM
Ralph,
Your response is full of facts, but it really has nothing to do with the current debate.
Your response is full of facts, but it really has nothing to do with the current debate.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 11:01:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 11:01:37 PM
Quote from: scotswin on March 08, 2009, 10:34:04 PMI know what you mean. Facts can get into the way of good debates.
Ralph,
Your response is full of facts, but it really has nothing to do with the current debate.
Baseball frequently sees Pool B teams earning Pool C bids.
To change the access ratio calculation, have the Maryville AD petition the Championships Committee of the NCAA. ;)
The access ratio is used to determine the number of Pool B bids in all sports.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:06:55 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:06:55 AM
I have no problem with it since any truly worthy Pool B team can always compete for a Pool C bid. And if you weren't good enough to get in the field that way, you weren't good enough.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:41:45 AM
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:41:45 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:06:55 AMIf you have to be good enough for a pool C, many of the teams making it in pool a would not have made it. it looks like the pool c teams have won like 80% of the games against pool A teams. If you want to have fair access for the pool b, take the top 4 or 8 from pool b and have a pool b regional tournaments instead of the pool b teams playing in conference tournament games which don't result in bids. Seemed to make plenty of sense in NAIA when Northwestern an independent qualifier a couple years back.
I have no problem with it since any truly worthy Pool B team can always compete for a Pool C bid. And if you weren't good enough to get in the field that way, you weren't good enough.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2009, 01:44:00 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2009, 01:44:00 AM
I think Ralph's analogy is right on - think of Pool B as a giant conference. Already they not only get their champion in, but also their #2 (and this year, at least, #3). If there are more worthy teams, they can go for Pool C, just like the 'runners-up' in any other conference.
But, historically, the last Pool B in the tourney would probably not have been within 20 slots of Pool C - so Pool B access (by that analogy) is already easier than for 'good' conference teams.
Many Pool A teams are 'unworthy' in a strict competitiveness sense, but d3 (AND d1, for that matter) has chosen to go with an 'access' model (which I applaud, or there would be no George Masons). The tourney consists of ONE per conference (PLUS 2 or more from the Pool B 'conference'); beyond that, it's 'merit'.
But, historically, the last Pool B in the tourney would probably not have been within 20 slots of Pool C - so Pool B access (by that analogy) is already easier than for 'good' conference teams.
Many Pool A teams are 'unworthy' in a strict competitiveness sense, but d3 (AND d1, for that matter) has chosen to go with an 'access' model (which I applaud, or there would be no George Masons). The tourney consists of ONE per conference (PLUS 2 or more from the Pool B 'conference'); beyond that, it's 'merit'.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: magicman on March 09, 2009, 01:51:08 AM
Post by: magicman on March 09, 2009, 01:51:08 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 09, 2009, 01:44:00 AM
I think Ralph's analogy is right on - think of Pool B as a giant conference. Already they not only get their champion in, but also their #2 (and this year, at least, #3). If there are more worthy teams, they can go for Pool C, just like the 'runners-up' in any other conference.
But, historically, the last Pool B in the tourney would probably not have been within 20 slots of Pool C - so Pool B access (by that analogy) is already easier than for 'good' conference teams.
Many Pool A teams are 'unworthy' in a strict competitiveness sense, but d3 (AND d1, for that matter) has chosen to go with an 'access' model (which I applaud, or there would be no George Masons). The tourney consists of ONE per conference (PLUS 2 or more from the Pool B 'conference'); beyond that, it's 'merit'.
And that really should be the final word on this discussion, but I fear it won't be. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 05:20:04 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 05:20:04 AM
Quote from: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:41:45 AMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:06:55 AMIf you have to be good enough for a pool C, many of the teams making it in pool a would not have made it. it looks like the pool c teams have won like 80% of the games against pool A teams. If you want to have fair access for the pool b, take the top 4 or 8 from pool b and have a pool b regional tournaments instead of the pool b teams playing in conference tournament games which don't result in bids. Seemed to make plenty of sense in NAIA when Northwestern an independent qualifier a couple years back.
I have no problem with it since any truly worthy Pool B team can always compete for a Pool C bid. And if you weren't good enough to get in the field that way, you weren't good enough.
AO - remember that Pool B exists for schools that are in conferences that do not have automatic qualifers, i.e. the Landmark, NECC, and UMAC, but will have AQs in the near future. Those conferences have put into place their conference tournaments that will be used to eventually determine thier AQs. Next year the Landmark and UMAC will become Pool A eligiable and the NECC will follow suit the following season. I am quite sure they are not going to be interested in playing in Pool B regional tournaments instead of their own. Also , playing in a Pool B tournament will mean nothing after two seasons, so I suspect they rather test out their conference tournament and make sure it works for them. For example, with travel considerations in the Landmark Conference, they spent the last two seasons making sure their tournament made sense before they used it as an AQ. If these conferences then have to add a Pool B regional, that is an additional game on their schedule - thus one less game they can play out of region.
Finally, the rest of the Pool B teams (some like Maryville who are in conferences that don't have enough teams for an AQ) do play in regional tournaments... but it sometimes doesn't actually help teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 09:23:53 AM
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 09:23:53 AM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 09, 2009, 05:20:04 AMThe landmark or NECC needs another year to test-drive their conference tournament? Perhaps they should just stay home and remain pool b indefinitely if they're that worried about travel considerations. The UMAC has been hosting great conference tournaments for many years and is ready for the AQ . If the UMAC has to stay in pool B another year, why not have a real national tournament qualifier for one year? I haven't looked at the schedules, but I've got a feeling the NECC and umac (or the other pool b's) are not going to have a lot of common opponents next year to be able to determine bids from.Quote from: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:41:45 AMQuote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:06:55 AMIf you have to be good enough for a pool C, many of the teams making it in pool a would not have made it. it looks like the pool c teams have won like 80% of the games against pool A teams. If you want to have fair access for the pool b, take the top 4 or 8 from pool b and have a pool b regional tournaments instead of the pool b teams playing in conference tournament games which don't result in bids. Seemed to make plenty of sense in NAIA when Northwestern an independent qualifier a couple years back.
I have no problem with it since any truly worthy Pool B team can always compete for a Pool C bid. And if you weren't good enough to get in the field that way, you weren't good enough.
AO - remember that Pool B exists for schools that are in conferences that do not have automatic qualifers, i.e. the Landmark, NECC, and UMAC, but will have AQs in the near future. Those conferences have put into place their conference tournaments that will be used to eventually determine thier AQs. Next year the Landmark and UMAC will become Pool A eligiable and the NECC will follow suit the following season. I am quite sure they are not going to be interested in playing in Pool B regional tournaments instead of their own. Also , playing in a Pool B tournament will mean nothing after two seasons, so I suspect they rather test out their conference tournament and make sure it works for them. For example, with travel considerations in the Landmark Conference, they spent the last two seasons making sure their tournament made sense before they used it as an AQ. If these conferences then have to add a Pool B regional, that is an additional game on their schedule - thus one less game they can play out of region.
Finally, the rest of the Pool B teams (some like Maryville who are in conferences that don't have enough teams for an AQ) do play in regional tournaments... but it sometimes doesn't actually help teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 10:50:38 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 10:50:38 AM
AO - that is NOT what I said at all. I said they are probably more inclined to test-drive their conference tournaments than participate in a Pool B tourney for two years which takes an additional game away from their respective schedules. I also didn't say they still needed more time. Both conferences will be Pool A eligiable next year, but I know there is always talk about tweeking things like schedules and tournaments as they participate more and more.
Also, the Landmark schools completely changed how they typically play conference games. They all came from conferences with relatively short travel arrangements meaning games on Wednesdays and Saturdays for the most part. Now they have far more distance to travel and changed to a weekend games schedule (Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday) and decided the conference tournament would be just four teams instead of maybe six or eight. That is COMPLETELY different than what these teams were doing in their old conferences... so they spent the last two years ironing things.
Not a big deal and heck, conferences are still ironing things out. The CCIW only added their tournament a couple of seasons ago and thought about revamping it this season... should they be put into Pool B because of it?!
Also, the Landmark schools completely changed how they typically play conference games. They all came from conferences with relatively short travel arrangements meaning games on Wednesdays and Saturdays for the most part. Now they have far more distance to travel and changed to a weekend games schedule (Friday/Saturday or Saturday/Sunday) and decided the conference tournament would be just four teams instead of maybe six or eight. That is COMPLETELY different than what these teams were doing in their old conferences... so they spent the last two years ironing things.
Not a big deal and heck, conferences are still ironing things out. The CCIW only added their tournament a couple of seasons ago and thought about revamping it this season... should they be put into Pool B because of it?!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 11:03:05 AM
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 11:03:05 AM
there's nothing wrong with having a conference tournament (even though it doesn't result in a bid), or revamping the format of the tournament. I was just throwing out the suggestion that the pool b conferences forego skip their tourney, in favor of a pool b playoff.
if the NCAA could use some common sense the UMAC would have the AQ already,...or am I missing something? the conference has been around for 30 years (though the schools have changed around a bit), great administration and good schools with a solid academic/athletic reputation.
if the NCAA could use some common sense the UMAC would have the AQ already,...or am I missing something? the conference has been around for 30 years (though the schools have changed around a bit), great administration and good schools with a solid academic/athletic reputation.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 11:12:38 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 11:12:38 AM
Quote from: AO on March 09, 2009, 11:03:05 AM
there's nothing wrong with having a conference tournament (even though it doesn't result in a bid), or revamping the format of the tournament. I was just throwing out the suggestion that the pool b conferences forego skip their tourney, in favor of a pool b playoff.
if the NCAA could use some common sense the UMAC would have the AQ already,...or am I missing something? the conference has been around for 30 years (though the schools have changed around a bit), great administration and good schools with a solid academic/athletic reputation.
And once we can confirm that they are all following NCAA rules and have been a member conference in good standing for two years, they will get an AQ like everyone else.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 11:33:13 AM
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 11:33:13 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 11:12:38 AMsome schools/conferences were ready during their 1st year of provisional membership.Quote from: AO on March 09, 2009, 11:03:05 AM
there's nothing wrong with having a conference tournament (even though it doesn't result in a bid), or revamping the format of the tournament. I was just throwing out the suggestion that the pool b conferences forego skip their tourney, in favor of a pool b playoff.
if the NCAA could use some common sense the UMAC would have the AQ already,...or am I missing something? the conference has been around for 30 years (though the schools have changed around a bit), great administration and good schools with a solid academic/athletic reputation.
And once we can confirm that they are all following NCAA rules and have been a member conference in good standing for two years, they will get an AQ like everyone else.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 11:47:42 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 11:47:42 AM
That's great. Some schools had to repeat a year of provisional membership, too.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:12:04 PM
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:12:04 PM
Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our interpretation of ncaa policy- we did.
But you can't hold a whole conference responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole conference system? And if the whole conference system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Pat- isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!
But you can't hold a whole conference responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole conference system? And if the whole conference system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Pat- isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we're not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:13:39 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:13:39 PM
Spare me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:25:02 PM
Post by: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:25:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:13:39 PMapparently, quoting Animal House doesn't deter you from defending ncaa policies. I give up.
Spare me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 01:07:05 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 01:07:05 PM
Quote from: AO on March 09, 2009, 12:25:02 PMThank God!Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 12:13:39 PMapparently, quoting Animal House doesn't deter you from defending ncaa policies. I give up.
Spare me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 01:18:20 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 09, 2009, 01:18:20 PM
That's a ruse, Dave. AO never gives up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 02:38:25 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 09, 2009, 02:38:25 PM
Damn! :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 09, 2009, 03:05:17 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 09, 2009, 03:05:17 PM
Since it appears that most of the potential B's are going to become eligible to go to the tournament as A's in a few years, can you smart people figure out how to reshuffle southern/southeastern conferences so the GSAC and Rust can get into A conferences? On the other hand, if all B's except GSAC and Rust are no longer B's, then the GSAC + Rust will become a default A conference posing as Bumblers. Right?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2009, 03:12:48 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2009, 03:12:48 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 09, 2009, 03:05:17 PMI think that Maryville vs Chapman becomes the perennial question.
Since it appears that most of the potential B's are going to become eligible to go to the tournament as A's in a few years, can you smart people figure out how to reshuffle southern/southeastern conferences so the GSAC and Rust can get into A conferences? On the other hand, if all B's except GSAC and Rust are no longer B's, then the GSAC + Rust will become a default A conference posing as Bumblers. Right?
Berry and Covenant are in the exploratory year to become D-III.
Are there any other teams in the South that are looking at D-III?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on March 09, 2009, 05:46:55 PM
Post by: oldchap on March 09, 2009, 05:46:55 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 09, 2009, 03:05:17 PM
Since it appears that most of the potential B's are going to become eligible to go to the tournament as A's in a few years, can you smart people figure out how to reshuffle southern/southeastern conferences so the GSAC and Rust can get into A conferences? On the other hand, if all B's except GSAC and Rust are no longer B's, then the GSAC + Rust will become a default A conference posing as Bumblers. Right?
Once the number of teams in Pool B drops below 10, there won't be any more problems or discussions because the number of teams eligible for Pool B will be 0 (rounded down, of course)... :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2009, 12:34:25 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2009, 12:34:25 PM
It's with sadness that I have to report the death of Patrick Abegg. We will miss him.
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/04/26/rip-patrick-abegg/
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/04/26/rip-patrick-abegg/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2009, 10:32:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 26, 2009, 12:34:25 PM
It's with sadness that I have to report the death of Patrick Abegg. We will miss him.
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2009/04/26/rip-patrick-abegg/
R.I.P.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2009, 10:33:18 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 28, 2009, 10:33:18 PM
The GSAC announces an affiliation agreement with the USA South for 2010-11.
http://www.thedailytimes.com/article/20090528/SPORTS/305289987
Here is the projection for 2010-11 for the Bumblin' B's.
Northeast Region: 1 -- U Maine Presque Isle (New England Collegiate Conference (8 teams including new member Mitchell) has gone to Pool A... NECC (http://www.neccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index).)
East Region: 0
Atlantic Region: 0
Mid-Atlantic Region: 1 -- Lancaster Bible is in its first year as a full member. There are several conferences that might invite them to join in the next 15 months.
South Region: 1 -- Rust. (UDallas is now an affiliate of the NEAC, but this may a tenuous relationship, and only valid as long as the NEAC needs UDallas as an affilliate to maintain Pool A.) The GSAC-4 men have affiliated with the USA South.
Great Lakes: 1 -- Finlandia
Midwest Region: 0
West Region: 4 (or 5) -- Neb Wesleyan; UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs; Chapman, LaSierra in its first year as a full member. (This is the first year (2008-09) as a new conference for the UMAC in Pool A.) EDIT: North Central MN, if they complete the provisional process and do not join UMAC. North Central had to repeat year #3 of the provisional status in 2008-09. Thanks to Hickory Cornhusker.
"The Provisional Pipeline" (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=35164) will contains 8 schools in current years #1 #2 of the provisional status, but 2 are not affiliated with a Conference.
I count 8 (or 9) schools in Pool B. That should mean 0 Pool B bids. We can see how that Championships committee deals with this.
http://www.thedailytimes.com/article/20090528/SPORTS/305289987
Here is the projection for 2010-11 for the Bumblin' B's.
Northeast Region: 1 -- U Maine Presque Isle (New England Collegiate Conference (8 teams including new member Mitchell) has gone to Pool A... NECC (http://www.neccathletics.com/sports/mbkb/index).)
East Region: 0
Atlantic Region: 0
Mid-Atlantic Region: 1 -- Lancaster Bible is in its first year as a full member. There are several conferences that might invite them to join in the next 15 months.
South Region: 1 -- Rust. (UDallas is now an affiliate of the NEAC, but this may a tenuous relationship, and only valid as long as the NEAC needs UDallas as an affilliate to maintain Pool A.) The GSAC-4 men have affiliated with the USA South.
Great Lakes: 1 -- Finlandia
Midwest Region: 0
West Region: 4 (or 5) -- Neb Wesleyan; UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs; Chapman, LaSierra in its first year as a full member. (This is the first year (2008-09) as a new conference for the UMAC in Pool A.) EDIT: North Central MN, if they complete the provisional process and do not join UMAC. North Central had to repeat year #3 of the provisional status in 2008-09. Thanks to Hickory Cornhusker.
"The Provisional Pipeline" (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=35164) will contain
I count 8 (or 9) schools in Pool B. That should mean 0 Pool B bids. We can see how that Championships committee deals with this.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 30, 2009, 12:16:44 AM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on May 30, 2009, 12:16:44 AM
North Central MN should also be listed as a Pool B team in the West Region in 2011 unless they join the Upper Midwest Athletic Conference in all spots by that time. They already have joined for golf, tennis and (I think) cross country. That's still 9 teams and may be 0 Pool B's. I don't remember what the access ratio for Pool A's in basketball is or will be by 2011 but usually the number in most sports is around 9.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2009, 11:32:41 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2009, 11:32:41 PM
The Handbook has not been released yet.
However, I think that we are looking at 3 Pool B bids this season, prior to the NECC and the UMAC getting their Pool A bids.
The GSAC-USA South merger is off for now, but Shenandoah has declared for football in the ODAC in the near future.
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4195.msg1106221#msg1106221
We may be looking at 1 Pool B bid in 2010-11.
However, I think that we are looking at 3 Pool B bids this season, prior to the NECC and the UMAC getting their Pool A bids.
The GSAC-USA South merger is off for now, but Shenandoah has declared for football in the ODAC in the near future.
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4195.msg1106221#msg1106221
We may be looking at 1 Pool B bid in 2010-11.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2009, 02:58:01 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2009, 02:58:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 06, 2009, 11:32:41 PM
The Handbook has not been released yet.
However, I think that we are looking at 3 Pool B bids this season, prior to the NECC and the UMAC getting their Pool A bids.
The GSAC-USA South merger is off for now, but Shenandoah has declared for football in the ODAC in the near future.
http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4195.msg1106221#msg1106221
We may be looking at 1 Pool B bid in 2010-11.
The 2010 handbook has been released, 40 pool A, 2 pool B, 19 pool C.
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2010/10_3_mbasketball.pdf (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2010/10_3_mbasketball.pdf)
One extra Pool B team would have yielded an extra Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:08:57 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:08:57 PM
At first glance, the Handbook looks like it is the "cleanest" that we have seen since I don't know when.
They need to add Wells College to the NEAC East Region.
They have not designated Menlo as competing as NAIA (?). They have Nebraska Wesleyan as D-III.
They have correctly designated the reclassifying schools: Lincoln PA, Maryville MO and CSU East Bay.
They have the multi-region members in the AMCC, the LAND, the NEAC, the SCAC and the UAA designated in the correct regions.
Fortunately, Finlandia has sought to be assigned to the West Region.
The provisional members seem to be correctly assigned to regions and conference.
They need to add Wells College to the NEAC East Region.
They have not designated Menlo as competing as NAIA (?). They have Nebraska Wesleyan as D-III.
They have correctly designated the reclassifying schools: Lincoln PA, Maryville MO and CSU East Bay.
They have the multi-region members in the AMCC, the LAND, the NEAC, the SCAC and the UAA designated in the correct regions.
Fortunately, Finlandia has sought to be assigned to the West Region.
The provisional members seem to be correctly assigned to regions and conference.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:36:09 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:36:09 PM
Pool B's in 2010-11 (if the UMAC and the NECC earn Pool A status):
Atlantic -- (0)
East -- (0)
Great Lakes -- (0)
Mid-Atlantic -- (1) Lancaster Bible
Midwest -- (0)
Northeast Region -- (1) UMPI
South -- (5) GSAC-4, Rust
West -- (5) Chapman, Finlandia, Menlo, Neb Wesleyan, North Central MN
Lancaster Bible and North Central MN should become full members in 2010.
We could have as many as 12 Pool B teams in 2010. Five schools become new members in 2010-11, so we might get a 62nd bid.
Atlantic -- (0)
East -- (0)
Great Lakes -- (0)
Mid-Atlantic -- (1) Lancaster Bible
Midwest -- (0)
Northeast Region -- (1) UMPI
South -- (5) GSAC-4, Rust
West -- (5) Chapman, Finlandia, Menlo, Neb Wesleyan, North Central MN
Lancaster Bible and North Central MN should become full members in 2010.
We could have as many as 12 Pool B teams in 2010. Five schools become new members in 2010-11, so we might get a 62nd bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 13, 2009, 05:39:50 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 13, 2009, 05:39:50 PM
These remaining indies need to give it up and just form a conference. I'd love to see a conference with both UMPI and Chapman in it. :P
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 13, 2009, 06:23:34 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 13, 2009, 06:23:34 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on December 13, 2009, 05:39:50 PM
These remaining indies need to give it up and just form a conference. I'd love to see a conference with both UMPI and Chapman in it. :P
Might happen, IF you cover the travel costs! ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on December 13, 2009, 06:29:07 PM
Post by: oldchap on December 13, 2009, 06:29:07 PM
Here is a list of Pool B school with their corresponding conferences and overall record. Let me know if I'm missing anything. I will later add their regional record:
1. Chapman University <IND> 8-1
2. Maryville College (Tennessee) <GSAC> 7-1
3. Elms College <NECC> 6-2
4. Wheelock College <NECC> 5-2
5. Presentation College <UMAC> 3-2
6. Piedmont College <GSAC> 4-3
7. Daniel Webster College <NECC> 4-4
Menlo College <IND> 4-4
9. Northwestern College <UMAC> 4-5
Southern Vermont College <NECC> 4-5
11. Becker College <NECC> 3-5
Finlandia University <IND> 3-5
University of Minnesota-Morris <UMAC> 3-5
Nebraska Wesleyan University <IND> 3-5
15. Rust College <IND> 4-4
16. Huntingdon College <GSAC> 2-4
17. Newbury College <NECC> 2-5
Northland College <UMAC> 2-5
19. Lesley University <NECC> 3-8
20. LaGrange College <GSAC> 2-6
21. Crown College (MN) <UMAC> 2-8
University of California, Santa Cruz <IND> 2-8
23. Martin Luther College <UMAC> 1-5
24. College of St. Scholastica <UMAC> 1-7
Mitchell College <NECC> 1-7
26. University of Maine, Presque Isle <IND> 0-5
Bethany Lutheran <UMAC> 0-9
1. Chapman University <IND> 8-1
2. Maryville College (Tennessee) <GSAC> 7-1
3. Elms College <NECC> 6-2
4. Wheelock College <NECC> 5-2
5. Presentation College <UMAC> 3-2
6. Piedmont College <GSAC> 4-3
7. Daniel Webster College <NECC> 4-4
Menlo College <IND> 4-4
9. Northwestern College <UMAC> 4-5
Southern Vermont College <NECC> 4-5
11. Becker College <NECC> 3-5
Finlandia University <IND> 3-5
University of Minnesota-Morris <UMAC> 3-5
Nebraska Wesleyan University <IND> 3-5
15. Rust College <IND> 4-4
16. Huntingdon College <GSAC> 2-4
17. Newbury College <NECC> 2-5
Northland College <UMAC> 2-5
19. Lesley University <NECC> 3-8
20. LaGrange College <GSAC> 2-6
21. Crown College (MN) <UMAC> 2-8
University of California, Santa Cruz <IND> 2-8
23. Martin Luther College <UMAC> 1-5
24. College of St. Scholastica <UMAC> 1-7
Mitchell College <NECC> 1-7
26. University of Maine, Presque Isle <IND> 0-5
Bethany Lutheran <UMAC> 0-9
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:47:42 PM
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:47:42 PM
Those interested in OWP and OOWP should read the section on strength of schedule. For 2010 and 2011 they will be using a weighted average of 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP. I believe this is a fairly significant change from years passed if memory serves me correctly.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:50:07 PM
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:50:07 PM
Anyone have an explination for why the Allegheny Mountain Conference (AMCC) has an automatic bid with only 4 members, and only 3 of those eligible for the tournament?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on December 13, 2009, 08:05:18 PM
Post by: hopefan on December 13, 2009, 08:05:18 PM
Amcc has a bunch of members, bur are split up between the East, Great Lakes, and Mid Atlantic Regions.......
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on December 13, 2009, 08:28:58 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on December 13, 2009, 08:28:58 PM
Quote from: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:47:42 PM
Those interested in OWP and OOWP should read the section on strength of schedule. For 2010 and 2011 they will be using a weighted average of 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP. I believe this is a fairly significant change from years passed if memory serves me correctly.
I am not certain, but I dont think they told us what the weighted average was in previous years.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on December 13, 2009, 08:30:50 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on December 13, 2009, 08:30:50 PM
Quote from: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:50:07 PM
Anyone have an explination for why the Allegheny Mountain Conference (AMCC) has an automatic bid with only 4 members, and only 3 of those eligible for the tournament?
http://www.amcconf.org/mbb.htm
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2009, 08:48:46 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2009, 08:48:46 PM
Quote from: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:47:42 PM
Those interested in OWP and OOWP should read the section on strength of schedule. For 2010 and 2011 they will be using a weighted average of 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP. I believe this is a fairly significant change from years passed if memory serves me correctly.
Isn't this just consistent with the standard SOS number in the RPI calculation?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 08:51:16 PM
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 08:51:16 PM
Quote from: hopefan on December 13, 2009, 08:05:18 PM
Amcc has a bunch of members, bur are split up between the East, Great Lakes, and Mid Atlantic Regions.......
my bad, I was reading only the great lakes section of the handbook and had forgotten that.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 08:51:33 PM
Post by: sac on December 13, 2009, 08:51:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2009, 08:48:46 PMQuote from: sac on December 13, 2009, 07:47:42 PM
Those interested in OWP and OOWP should read the section on strength of schedule. For 2010 and 2011 they will be using a weighted average of 2/3 OWP and 1/3 OOWP. I believe this is a fairly significant change from years passed if memory serves me correctly.
Isn't this just consistent with the standard SOS number in the RPI calculation?
I can't remember
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2009, 09:33:05 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2009, 09:33:05 PM
Quote from: oldchap on December 13, 2009, 06:29:07 PM
Here is a list of Pool B school with their corresponding conferences and overall record. Let me know if I'm missing anything. I will later add their regional record:
1. Chapman University <IND> 8-1
2. Maryville College (Tennessee) <GSAC> 7-1
3. Elms College <NECC> 6-2
4. Wheelock College <NECC> 5-2
5. Presentation College <UMAC> 3-2
6. Piedmont College <GSAC> 4-3
7. Daniel Webster College <NECC> 4-4
Menlo College <IND> 4-4
9. Northwestern College <UMAC> 4-5
Southern Vermont College <NECC> 4-5
11. Becker College <NECC> 3-5
Finlandia University <IND> 3-5
University of Minnesota-Morris <UMAC> 3-5
Nebraska Wesleyan University <IND> 3-5
15. Rust College <IND> 4-4
16. Huntingdon College <GSAC> 2-4
17. Newbury College <NECC> 2-5
Northland College <UMAC> 2-5
19. Lesley University <NECC> 3-8
20. LaGrange College <GSAC> 2-6
21. Crown College (MN) <UMAC> 2-8
University of California, Santa Cruz <IND> 2-8
23. Martin Luther College <UMAC> 1-5
24. College of St. Scholastica <UMAC> 1-7
Mitchell College <NECC> 1-7
26. University of Maine, Presque Isle <IND> 0-5
Bethany Lutheran <UMAC> 0-9
P RNK WP OWP OOWP RPI NAT REG OVR Team
B 001 0.889 0.571 0.587 .6548 020 8-1 8-1 Chapman
B 002 0.714 0.682 0.520 .6496 025 5-2 6-2 Elms
B 003 0.833 0.469 0.558 .5823 085 5-1 7-1 Maryville (Tenn.)
B 004 0.400 0.679 0.418 .5437 141 2-3 4-4 Rust
B 005 0.714 0.356 0.616 .5104 188 5-2 5-2 Wheelock
B 006 0.667 0.381 0.566 .4987 211 2-1 4-3 Piedmont
B 007 0.250 0.621 0.477 .4920 225 2-6 2-8 UC Santa Cruz
B 008 0.500 0.442 0.518 .4755 241 4-4 4-4 Daniel Webster
B 009 0.250 0.571 0.493 .4715 248 1-3 2-4 Huntingdon
B 010 0.286 0.541 0.493 .4649 258 2-5 2-6 LaGrange
B 011 0.375 0.484 0.488 .4576 269 3-5 3-5 Becker
B 012 1.000 0.083 0.636 .4508 278 2-0 3-2 Presentation
B 013 0.333 0.485 0.483 .4466 283 3-6 3-8 Lesley
B 014 0.286 0.500 0.465 .4378 296 2-5 2-5 Newbury
B 015 0.167 0.577 0.387 .4268 306 1-5 1-5 Martin Luther
B 016 0.667 0.176 0.632 .4128 330 2-1 3-5 Minnesota-Morris
B 017 0.250 0.476 0.428 .4075 339 1-3 3-5 Nebraska Wesleyan
B 018 0.167 0.485 0.484 .4050 340 1-5 4-5 Southern Vermont
B 019 0.444 0.354 0.440 .3982 345 4-5 4-5 Northwestern (Minn.)
B 020 0.000 0.568 0.393 .3820 361 0-8 0-9 Bethany Lutheran
B 021 0.400 0.258 0.473 .3473 377 2-3 2-5 Northland
B 022 0.250 0.333 0.434 .3375 384 1-3 3-5 Finlandia
B 023 0.000 0.450 0.433 .3333 386 0-3 0-5 Maine-Presque Isle
B 024 0.167 0.317 0.470 .3176 390 1-5 1-7 Mitchell
B 025 0.125 0.360 0.415 .3151 391 1-7 1-7 St. Scholastica
B 026 0.200 0.288 0.441 .3045 393 2-8 2-8 Crown
Updated with scores reported on d3hoops.com thru 8:45 pm est. I don't have data on Menlo though, not quite sure how they are classified, do they play d3 regional games?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 10:32:15 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 10:32:15 PM
I think that Menlo is NAIA for hoops.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2009, 12:47:36 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2009, 12:47:36 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:08:57 PM
Fortunately, Finlandia has sought to be assigned to the West Region.
Actually, I suggested this assignment at the behest of Mr. Ypsi.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 14, 2009, 12:56:37 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 14, 2009, 12:56:37 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 14, 2009, 12:47:36 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:08:57 PM
Fortunately, Finlandia has sought to be assigned to the West Region.
Actually, I suggested this assignment at the behest of Mr. Ypsi.
Woo hoo! ;D I believe that may make three successful campaigns (that I really had a part in) in the last 40 years! :D
Assuming this one is successful.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 09:26:03 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 09:26:03 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 10:32:15 PM
I think that Menlo is NAIA for hoops.
That's what I thought too, but it appears that the handbook lists them as a pool B member of the west region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2009, 10:51:26 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2009, 10:51:26 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 09:26:03 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 10:32:15 PM
I think that Menlo is NAIA for hoops.
That's what I thought too, but it appears that the handbook lists them as a pool B member of the west region.
There are two dual-membership discrepancies. The D3 handbook lists both Maine-Presque Isle and Menlo as "declared" schools that are thus eligible to participate in the D3 tournament. However, the NAIA website lists both UMPI and Menlo as NAIA Division II "declared" schools (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf) that are thus eligible to play in the NAIA-2 tourney. You have to declare for one or the other; you can't declare for both. The NAIA-2 membership page is dated from this past September and duly notes that Nebraska Wesleyan is a non-participating member of NAIA-2 and that Covenant is a provisional member that is ineligible for NAIA-2 postseason play (because it's in the process of transferring to NCAA D3).
Either the D3 handbook or the NAIA website has it wrong with regard to UMPI and Menlo. Both have declared for the NAIA every year for as long as I can remember, and both are members of conferences in which every other member is NAIA-2 (not that that's an ironclad guarantee that they're NAIA loyalists, as Nebraska Wesleyan proves), so unless there is further proof to the contrary I'm inclined to think that the handbook is wrong and that UMPI and Menlo have declared for the NAIA-2 tourney.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 11:51:26 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 11:51:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2009, 10:51:26 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 09:26:03 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 10:32:15 PM
I think that Menlo is NAIA for hoops.
That's what I thought too, but it appears that the handbook lists them as a pool B member of the west region.
There are two dual-membership discrepancies. The D3 handbook lists both Maine-Presque Isle and Menlo as "declared" schools that are thus eligible to participate in the D3 tournament. However, the NAIA website lists both UMPI and Menlo as NAIA Division II "declared" schools (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf) that are thus eligible to play in the NAIA-2 tourney. You have to declare for one or the other; you can't declare for both. The NAIA-2 membership page is dated from this past September and duly notes that Nebraska Wesleyan is a non-participating member of NAIA-2 and that Covenant is a provisional member that is ineligible for NAIA-2 postseason play (because it's in the process of transferring to NCAA D3).
Either the D3 handbook or the NAIA website has it wrong with regard to UMPI and Menlo. Both have declared for the NAIA every year for as long as I can remember, and both are members of conferences in which every other member is NAIA-2 (not that that's an ironclad guarantee that they're NAIA loyalists, as Nebraska Wesleyan proves), so unless there is further proof to the contrary I'm inclined to think that the handbook is wrong and that UMPI and Menlo have declared for the NAIA-2 tourney.
Does declaring for the NAIA championships make you "non-DIII" and therefore the games do not count as in-region?
It wouldn't be a NCAA handbook without a few discrepancies now would it?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on December 15, 2009, 10:52:25 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on December 15, 2009, 10:52:25 AM
There appear to be 8 schools listed as NECC and Pool B. Doesn't 7 get them an AQ? (I am sure Ralph has explained this somewhere and I cannot remember or find it.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 15, 2009, 12:16:52 PM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 15, 2009, 12:16:52 PM
You have to be a conference for two years before you can get the AQ. It was the same case for the Landmark Conference and the NAthCon a few years ago, they had the members but since they were a new conference there was a two year waiting period. NECC should be on board for a Pool A spot next year along with UMAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on December 15, 2009, 02:01:30 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on December 15, 2009, 02:01:30 PM
Thank you, Hickory_cornhusker.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 09:57:43 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 15, 2009, 09:57:43 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on December 15, 2009, 10:52:25 AMNECC is in the second provisional year as a conference.
There appear to be 8 schools listed as NECC and Pool B. Doesn't 7 get them an AQ? (I am sure Ralph has explained this somewhere and I cannot remember or find it.)
They should get the AQ next season. :)
(Please remember how the Landmark Conference spent 2 years in Pool B.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2009, 10:33:16 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 15, 2009, 10:33:16 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 11:51:26 PMQuote from: Gregory Sager on December 14, 2009, 10:51:26 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on December 14, 2009, 09:26:03 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 10:32:15 PM
I think that Menlo is NAIA for hoops.
That's what I thought too, but it appears that the handbook lists them as a pool B member of the west region.
There are two dual-membership discrepancies. The D3 handbook lists both Maine-Presque Isle and Menlo as "declared" schools that are thus eligible to participate in the D3 tournament. However, the NAIA website lists both UMPI and Menlo as NAIA Division II "declared" schools (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf) that are thus eligible to play in the NAIA-2 tourney. You have to declare for one or the other; you can't declare for both. The NAIA-2 membership page is dated from this past September and duly notes that Nebraska Wesleyan is a non-participating member of NAIA-2 and that Covenant is a provisional member that is ineligible for NAIA-2 postseason play (because it's in the process of transferring to NCAA D3).
Either the D3 handbook or the NAIA website has it wrong with regard to UMPI and Menlo. Both have declared for the NAIA every year for as long as I can remember, and both are members of conferences in which every other member is NAIA-2 (not that that's an ironclad guarantee that they're NAIA loyalists, as Nebraska Wesleyan proves), so unless there is further proof to the contrary I'm inclined to think that the handbook is wrong and that UMPI and Menlo have declared for the NAIA-2 tourney.
Does declaring for the NAIA championships make you "non-DIII" and therefore the games do not count as in-region?
It doesn't make you non-D3, but whether or not it makes your games invalid for other D3 teams for primary-criteria purposes is another matter. As far as I can tell, there's no fixed rule about it anywhere in the handbook; my guess is that the roll call of participating schools is listed in the back of the handbook once dual members have made their declarations, and that this roster thereby becomes the list of schools that are used by the selection committee for primary-criteria purposes. But it does seem to be a gray area.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Did anyone else notice we have 61 teams in the field in MBB this year?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2009, 08:20:16 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2009, 08:20:16 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:36:09 PMWell, obtusely. :-\
Pool B's in 2010-11 (if the UMAC and the NECC earn Pool A status):
Atlantic -- (0)
East -- (0)
Great Lakes -- (0)
Mid-Atlantic -- (1) Lancaster Bible
Midwest -- (0)
Northeast Region -- (1) UMPI
South -- (5) GSAC-4, Rust
West -- (5) Chapman, Finlandia, Menlo, Neb Wesleyan, North Central MN
Lancaster Bible and North Central MN should become full members in 2010.
We could have as many as 12 Pool B teams in 2010. Five schools become new members in 2010-11, so we might get a 62nd bid.
I don't know if we will get one bid increase in consecutive years.
398 eligible teams in 2009-10 plus five prospective new members in 2010-11 = 403.
403 divided by 6.5 = exactly 62.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:21:58 PM
Right. But the increase from 60 to 61 didn't seem to make a ripple. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: magicman on December 16, 2009, 08:30:55 PM
Post by: magicman on December 16, 2009, 08:30:55 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Did anyone else notice we have 61 teams in the field in MBB this year?
Quote from KnightSlappy on December 13th on page 114 of this board:
"The 2010 handbook has been released, 40 pool A, 2 pool B, 19 pool C."
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Right, but no mention that it was an increased total.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 09:01:47 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: magicman on December 16, 2009, 08:30:55 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Did anyone else notice we have 61 teams in the field in MBB this year?
Quote from KnightSlappy on December 13th on page 114 of this board:
"The 2010 handbook has been released, 40 pool A, 2 pool B, 19 pool C."
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Right, but no mention that it was an increased total.
Are you implying that Knightslappy flunked arithmetic! :o ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 16, 2009, 10:18:17 PM
Post by: hickory_cornhusker on December 16, 2009, 10:18:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 09:01:47 PMQuote from: magicman on December 16, 2009, 08:30:55 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Did anyone else notice we have 61 teams in the field in MBB this year?
Quote from KnightSlappy on December 13th on page 114 of this board:
"The 2010 handbook has been released, 40 pool A, 2 pool B, 19 pool C."Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Right, but no mention that it was an increased total.
Are you implying that Knightslappy flunked arithmetic! :o ;)
Maybe we all flunked arithmetic because no one caught it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 16, 2009, 10:18:17 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 09:01:47 PMQuote from: magicman on December 16, 2009, 08:30:55 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Did anyone else notice we have 61 teams in the field in MBB this year?
Quote from KnightSlappy on December 13th on page 114 of this board:
"The 2010 handbook has been released, 40 pool A, 2 pool B, 19 pool C."Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Right, but no mention that it was an increased total.
Are you implying that Knightslappy flunked arithmetic! :o ;)
Maybe we all flunked arithmetic because no one caught it.
My excuse was senility, not bad arithmetic! ;D
I forgot we weren't already at 61 last year! :-[ :P
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 16, 2009, 10:30:17 PM
Post by: John Gleich on December 16, 2009, 10:30:17 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:27:02 PMQuote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 16, 2009, 10:18:17 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 09:01:47 PMQuote from: magicman on December 16, 2009, 08:30:55 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Did anyone else notice we have 61 teams in the field in MBB this year?
Quote from KnightSlappy on December 13th on page 114 of this board:
"The 2010 handbook has been released, 40 pool A, 2 pool B, 19 pool C."Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Right, but no mention that it was an increased total.
Are you implying that Knightslappy flunked arithmetic! :o ;)
Maybe we all flunked arithmetic because no one caught it.
My excuse was senility, not bad arithmetic! ;D
I forgot we weren't already at 61 last year! :-[ :P
My excuse is Mr. Ypsi's senility too!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:35:33 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:35:33 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 16, 2009, 10:30:17 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:27:02 PMQuote from: hickory_cornhusker on December 16, 2009, 10:18:17 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 09:01:47 PMQuote from: magicman on December 16, 2009, 08:30:55 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 06:41:30 PM
Did anyone else notice we have 61 teams in the field in MBB this year?
Quote from KnightSlappy on December 13th on page 114 of this board:
"The 2010 handbook has been released, 40 pool A, 2 pool B, 19 pool C."Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Right, but no mention that it was an increased total.
Are you implying that Knightslappy flunked arithmetic! :o ;)
Maybe we all flunked arithmetic because no one caught it.
My excuse was senility, not bad arithmetic! ;D
I forgot we weren't already at 61 last year! :-[ :P
My excuse is Mr. Ypsi's senility too!
Now, watch your manners, young-un.
The senile Mr. Ypsi is kickin' your sorry butt in pickems (so far, at least; of course he may forget to pick one of these weeks! :D).
[Of course, so is everyone else. :P]
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on December 17, 2009, 12:08:12 AM
Post by: Hugenerd on December 17, 2009, 12:08:12 AM
Are there two new conferences that will get Pool A bids next year, or just the NECC? So will we stay at 19 Pool C next year or go down by 1 (with the increase to 62 teams)?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 17, 2009, 12:41:27 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 17, 2009, 12:41:27 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on December 17, 2009, 12:08:12 AM
Are there two new conferences that will get Pool A bids next year, or just the NECC? So will we stay at 19 Pool C next year or go down by 1 (with the increase to 62 teams)?
My understanding is that there will be two new A's (NECC and UMAC?), but therefore one less B, leaving C's the same. Anyone?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on December 17, 2009, 12:46:22 AM
Post by: Hugenerd on December 17, 2009, 12:46:22 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 17, 2009, 12:41:27 AMQuote from: hugenerd on December 17, 2009, 12:08:12 AM
Are there two new conferences that will get Pool A bids next year, or just the NECC? So will we stay at 19 Pool C next year or go down by 1 (with the increase to 62 teams)?
My understanding is that there will be two new A's (NECC and UMAC?), but therefore one less B, leaving C's the same. Anyone?
Ahh, I forgot about the decrease in the B's. That makes sense.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2009, 02:43:02 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 17, 2009, 02:43:02 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 16, 2009, 08:53:35 PM
Right, but no mention that it was an increased total.
I noticed the increase when the dean of KnightSlappy U. made that announcement. I just didn't say anything. Based upon Ralph's rigorous year-by-year tracking of the probie schools and their four-year marches to full membership, I knew that we were due to get bumped up to a 61-team tourney this year. I guess that I just figured it was common knowledge and therefore wasn't drawing any comment.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 31, 2009, 10:17:14 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 31, 2009, 10:17:14 PM
Chapman is 10-1 in-region and has 7 in-region games remaining.
They are: 3 against LaSierra (3-10), two against UC Santa Cruz (4-9), Cal Tech (0-8) and UDallas (4-5).
Elms is 6-2/4-2.
Maryville is 9-2/6-2.
They are: 3 against LaSierra (3-10), two against UC Santa Cruz (4-9), Cal Tech (0-8) and UDallas (4-5).
Elms is 6-2/4-2.
Maryville is 9-2/6-2.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 31, 2009, 10:53:23 PM
Post by: John Gleich on December 31, 2009, 10:53:23 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:35:33 PMQuote from: PointSpecial on December 16, 2009, 10:30:17 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
My excuse was senility, not bad arithmetic! ;D
I forgot we weren't already at 61 last year! :-[ :P
My excuse is Mr. Ypsi's senility too!
Now, watch your manners, young-un.
The senile Mr. Ypsi is kickin' your sorry butt in pickems (so far, at least; of course he may forget to pick one of these weeks! :D).
[Of course, so is everyone else. :P]
I copied the leader this week, so I should be golden! ... or I'm going to drag him down too!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: magicman on January 01, 2010, 01:42:39 AM
Post by: magicman on January 01, 2010, 01:42:39 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 31, 2009, 10:53:23 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:35:33 PMQuote from: PointSpecial on December 16, 2009, 10:30:17 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 16, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
My excuse was senility, not bad arithmetic! ;D
I forgot we weren't already at 61 last year! :-[ :P
My excuse is Mr. Ypsi's senility too!
Now, watch your manners, young-un.
The senile Mr. Ypsi is kickin' your sorry butt in pickems (so far, at least; of course he may forget to pick one of these weeks! :D).
[Of course, so is everyone else. :P]
I copiedtheone of the leaders this week, so I should be golden! ... or I'm going to drag him down too!
slight correction. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 02:02:09 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 02:02:09 PM
Kinghtslappy is running an OWP/OOWP that may approximate the calculations that the Selection committee may see for the regional rankings. It is a good proxy of where a team stands for the Pool B and C bids.
Post # 2451 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.2451)
In this calculation, Maryville TN is listed as #1; Chapman #2.
The NECC and UMAC seem to be knocking themselves out of contention for Pool B bids.
Post # 2451 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.2451)
In this calculation, Maryville TN is listed as #1; Chapman #2.
The NECC and UMAC seem to be knocking themselves out of contention for Pool B bids.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 17, 2010, 02:11:09 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 17, 2010, 02:11:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 02:02:09 PM
Kinghtslappy is running an OWP/OOWP that may approximate the calculations that the Selection committee may see for the regional rankings. It is a good proxy of where a team stands for the Pool B and C bids.
Post # 2451 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4232.2451)
In this calculation, Maryville TN is listed as #1; Chapman #2.
The NECC and UMAC seem to be knocking themselves out of contention for Pool B bids.
Pool B regional-RPI based rankings through scores reported to d3hoops.com at noon eastern time:
RNK WP OWP OOWP RPI NAT REG OVR Team
001 0.818 0.527 0.520 .5978 038 9-2 14-2 Maryville (Tenn.)
002 0.923 0.457 0.493 .5825 058 12-1 14-2 Chapman
003 0.545 0.520 0.503 .5223 162 6-5 8-5 Elms
004 0.692 0.444 0.499 .5202 164 9-4 9-4 Wheelock
005 0.385 0.604 0.477 .5175 169 5-8 7-10 Rust
006 0.500 0.523 0.504 .5124 181 5-5 7-7 Huntingdon
007 0.400 0.564 0.476 .5011 209 4-6 6-11 UC Santa Cruz
008 0.500 0.491 0.498 .4952 222 7-7 7-7 Becker
009 0.600 0.425 0.486 .4839 245 9-6 9-6 Northwestern (Minn.)
010 0.600 0.391 0.549 .4828 248 6-4 9-6 Piedmont
011 0.333 0.441 0.502 .4292 325 4-8 --- Lesley
012 0.231 0.467 0.511 .4191 338 3-10 4-13 LaGrange
013 0.333 0.418 0.493 .4154 342 4-8 4-8 Newbury
014 0.300 0.418 0.502 .4095 350 3-7 4-7 Southern Vermont
015 0.313 0.421 0.477 .4080 351 5-11 5-11 St. Scholastica
016 0.286 0.430 0.467 .4033 358 2-5 5-8 Nebraska Wesleyan
017 0.200 0.451 0.446 .3872 367 2-8 2-9 Mitchell
018 0.300 0.385 0.479 .3869 368 3-7 4-7 Daniel Webster
019 0.500 0.290 0.460 .3849 371 3-3 4-9 Minnesota-Morris
020 0.444 0.309 0.464 .3814 374 4-5 6-8 Presentation
021 0.143 0.467 0.446 .3805 376 2-12 2-13 Bethany Lutheran
022 0.273 0.386 0.461 .3765 379 3-8 4-11 Northland
023 0.167 0.425 0.452 .3673 386 2-10 2-10 Martin Luther
024 0.200 0.389 0.478 .3640 387 3-12 3-12 Crown
025 0.222 0.362 0.510 .3639 388 2-7 4-9 Finlandia
026 0.000 0.289 0.475 .2633 401 0-5 1-8 Maine-Presque Isle
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 03:04:10 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 03:04:10 PM
Thanks for knightslappy for the table. I have added the conference affiliations for my own review.
| RNK | WP | OWP | OOWP | RPI | NAT | REG | OVR | Team | Conference |
| 001 | 0.818 | 0.527 | 0.520 | .5978 | 038 | 9-2 | 14-2 | Maryville (Tenn.) | GSAC |
| 002 | 0.923 | 0.457 | 0.493 | .5825 | 058 | 12-1 | 14-2 | Chapman | Ind |
| 003 | 0.545 | 0.520 | 0.503 | .5223 | 162 | 6-5 | 8-5 | Elms | NECC |
| 004 | 0.692 | 0.444 | 0.499 | .5202 | 164 | 9-4 | 9-4 | Wheelock | NECC |
| 005 | 0.385 | 0.604 | 0.477 | .5175 | 169 | 5-8 | 7-10 | Rust | Ind |
| 006 | 0.500 | 0.523 | 0.504 | .5124 | 181 | 5-5 | 7-7 | Huntingdon | GSAC |
| 007 | 0.400 | 0.564 | 0.476 | .5011 | 209 | 4-6 | 6-11 | UC Santa Cruz | Ind |
| 008 | 0.500 | 0.491 | 0.498 | .4952 | 222 | 7-7 | 7-7 | Becker | NECC |
| 009 | 0.600 | 0.391 | 0.549 | .4828 | 247 | 6-4 | 9-6 | Piedmont | GSAC |
| 010 | 0.333 | 0.441 | 0.502 | .4292 | 324 | 4-8 | --- | Lesley | NECC |
| 011 | 0.231 | 0.467 | 0.511 | .4191 | 337 | 3-10 | 4-13 | LaGrange | GSAC |
| 012 | 0.333 | 0.418 | 0.493 | .4154 | 341 | 4-8 | 4-8 | Newbury | NECC |
| 013 | 0.300 | 0.418 | 0.502 | .4095 | 349 | 3-7 | 4-7 | Southern Vermont | NECC |
| 014 | 0.313 | 0.421 | 0.477 | .4080 | 350 | 5-11 | 5-11 | St. Scholastica | UMAC |
| 015 | 0.286 | 0.430 | 0.467 | .4033 | 357 | 2-5 | 5-8 | Nebraska Wesleyan | Ind |
| 016 | 0.200 | 0.451 | 0.446 | .3872 | 366 | 2-8 | 2-9 | Mitchell | NECC |
| 017 | 0.300 | 0.385 | 0.479 | .3869 | 367 | 3-7 | 4-7 | Daniel Webster | NECC |
| 018 | 0.500 | 0.290 | 0.460 | .3849 | 370 | 3-3 | 4-9 | Minnesota-Morris | UMAC |
| 019 | 0.444 | 0.309 | 0.464 | .3814 | 373 | 4-5 | 6-8 | Presentation | UMAC |
| 020 | 0.143 | 0.467 | 0.446 | .3805 | 375 | 2-12 | 2-13 | Bethany Lutheran | UMAC |
| 021 | 0.273 | 0.386 | 0.461 | .3765 | 378 | 3-8 | 4-11 | Northland | UMAC |
| 022 | 0.167 | 0.425 | 0.452 | .3673 | 385 | 2-10 | 2-10 | Martin Luther | UMAC |
| 023 | 0.200 | 0.389 | 0.478 | .3640 | 386 | 3-12 | 3-12 | Crown | UMAC |
| 024 | 0.222 | 0.362 | 0.510 | .3639 | 387 | 2-7 | 4-9 | Finlandia | Ind |
| 025 | 0.000 | 0.289 | 0.475 | .2633 | 400 | 0-5 | 1-8 | Maine-Presque Isle | Ind/NAIA-2 |
| 026 | 0.600 | 0.425 | 0.486 | .0000 | 401 | 9-6 | 9-6 | Northwestern (Minn.) | UMAC |
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2010, 03:09:03 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2010, 03:09:03 PM
Apparently some sort of glitch left Northwestern with a .0000 RPI! :D
I forget the formula for calculation, but just eyeballing the numbers it appears they would be about #5.
I forget the formula for calculation, but just eyeballing the numbers it appears they would be about #5.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 03:13:20 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 03:13:20 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2010, 03:09:03 PMYeah, you just wanted to get UM-Presque Isle at the bottom of the list.
Apparently some sort of glitch left Northwestern with a .0000 RPI! :D
I forget the formula for calculation, but just eyeballing the numbers it appears they would be about #5.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2010, 03:19:26 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2010, 03:19:26 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 17, 2010, 03:13:20 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 17, 2010, 03:09:03 PMYeah, you just wanted to get UM-Presque Isle at the bottom of the list.
Apparently some sort of glitch left Northwestern with a .0000 RPI! :D
I forget the formula for calculation, but just eyeballing the numbers it appears they would be about #5.
This late in the season not even a Bumblin' B can have a .0000 RPI! ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 18, 2010, 11:52:31 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 18, 2010, 11:52:31 AM
Thank you, Knightslappy and Ralph!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 12:14:23 PM
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 12:14:23 PM
come on guys, after a disappointing start to the season, my squad's going to need a little help from the pool B gurus. This was not what I had in mind! :( To atone for this, please adjust the rankings to account for the fact that Northwestern currently has the best win out of any of the pool b's with a road win over #12 st. norberts.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 01:19:03 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 01:19:03 PM
Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 12:14:23 PMI gotta tell you...
come on guys, after a disappointing start to the season, my squad's going to need a little help from the pool B gurus. This was not what I had in mind! :( To atone for this, please adjust the rankings to account for the fact that Northwestern currently has the best win out of any of the pool b's with a road win over #12 st. norberts.
It is that Northwestern MN road win over SNC that has me doubting whether SNC deserves to be ranked as high as it is.
I think that your best chance is for Northwestern to run the table and conference tourney. I believe that you need some help from other teams beating Chapman and Maryville to knock down their numbers, too.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 01:55:04 PM
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 01:55:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 01:19:03 PMYou might be right about St. Norbert, but you have to rank a 1 loss team somewhere after they scheduled the WIAC, CCIW, Chicago and then put my squad as the opener in their holiday tourney. I pretty much gave up pool B hope after the loss to Augsburg, but they certainly should be favored by double digits in every game from here on out.Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 12:14:23 PMI gotta tell you...
come on guys, after a disappointing start to the season, my squad's going to need a little help from the pool B gurus. This was not what I had in mind! :( To atone for this, please adjust the rankings to account for the fact that Northwestern currently has the best win out of any of the pool b's with a road win over #12 st. norberts.
It is that Northwestern MN road win over SNC that has me doubting whether SNC deserves to be ranked as high as it is.
I think that your best chance is for Northwestern to run the table and conference tourney. I believe that you need some help from other teams beating Chapman and Maryville to knock down their numbers, too.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2010, 02:46:44 PM
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2010, 02:46:44 PM
Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 01:55:04 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 01:19:03 PMYou might be right about St. Norbert, but you have to rank a 1 loss team somewhere after they scheduled the WIAC, CCIW, Chicago and then put my squad as the opener in their holiday tourney. I pretty much gave up pool B hope after the loss to Augsburg, but they certainly should be favored by double digits in every game from here on out.Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 12:14:23 PMI gotta tell you...
come on guys, after a disappointing start to the season, my squad's going to need a little help from the pool B gurus. This was not what I had in mind! :( To atone for this, please adjust the rankings to account for the fact that Northwestern currently has the best win out of any of the pool b's with a road win over #12 st. norberts.
It is that Northwestern MN road win over SNC that has me doubting whether SNC deserves to be ranked as high as it is.
I think that your best chance is for Northwestern to run the table and conference tourney. I believe that you need some help from other teams beating Chapman and Maryville to knock down their numbers, too.
All Norberts can do is beat who they play... but that doesn't necessarily mean that, if teams ahead of them keep losing, that they really deserve to matriculate all the way to the top of the rankings. Their OWP/OOWP is .408/.545 (compare that with Stevens Point, who also only has one loss and has an OWP/OOWP of .626/.568). Point is likely going to lose again this year because they're getting tested pretty much night in and night out by good WIAC teams. Even if Point would lose to, say, Oshkosh, who SNC beat, does that mean SNC should jump ahead of the Pointers?
I think that Norberts should stay at about the #15 range until they play someone who is having more success this year. The loss to Northwestern is a bad loss for them because Northwestern hasn't played any real top teams, either.
What Northwestern can do to improve its stock is to win out. They can't do anything against their OWP/OOWP, which unfortunately for them is pretty low (.425/.486), but they can control their own winning percentage and they can cheer like heck for the teams they've played.
To be honest, the Northland loss is a pretty bad one. But apart from that, they've lost to some average teams from pretty good conferences, and they beat the top team from an average (this year at least) conference.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 03:55:43 PM
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 03:55:43 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 18, 2010, 02:46:44 PMIf Steven's Point loses to 7-9 Oshkosh, I could see them dropping to 10th or so, and then another loss to whitewater could drop them below SNC. The NCAA would probably put Point ahead of SNC in terms of OWP, but the d3hoops poll would have to reward Norberts if they win out.Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 01:55:04 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 01:19:03 PMYou might be right about St. Norbert, but you have to rank a 1 loss team somewhere after they scheduled the WIAC, CCIW, Chicago and then put my squad as the opener in their holiday tourney. I pretty much gave up pool B hope after the loss to Augsburg, but they certainly should be favored by double digits in every game from here on out.Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 12:14:23 PMI gotta tell you...
come on guys, after a disappointing start to the season, my squad's going to need a little help from the pool B gurus. This was not what I had in mind! :( To atone for this, please adjust the rankings to account for the fact that Northwestern currently has the best win out of any of the pool b's with a road win over #12 st. norberts.
It is that Northwestern MN road win over SNC that has me doubting whether SNC deserves to be ranked as high as it is.
I think that your best chance is for Northwestern to run the table and conference tourney. I believe that you need some help from other teams beating Chapman and Maryville to knock down their numbers, too.
All Norberts can do is beat who they play... but that doesn't necessarily mean that, if teams ahead of them keep losing, that they really deserve to matriculate all the way to the top of the rankings. Their OWP/OOWP is .408/.545 (compare that with Stevens Point, who also only has one loss and has an OWP/OOWP of .626/.568). Point is likely going to lose again this year because they're getting tested pretty much night in and night out by good WIAC teams. Even if Point would lose to, say, Oshkosh, who SNC beat, does that mean SNC should jump ahead of the Pointers?
I think that Norberts should stay at about the #15 range until they play someone who is having more success this year. The loss to Northwestern is a bad loss for them because Northwestern hasn't played any real top teams, either.
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 18, 2010, 02:46:44 PMThe OWP/OOWP is going to be very bad as the UMAC had very few in-region wins in the non-conference season.
What Northwestern can do to improve its stock is to win out. They can't do anything against their OWP/OOWP, which unfortunately for them is pretty low (.425/.486), but they can control their own winning percentage and they can cheer like heck for the teams they've played.
To be honest, the Northland loss is a pretty bad one. But apart from that, they've lost to some average teams from pretty good conferences, and they beat the top team from an average (this year at least) conference.
Back when Northwestern was NAIA we played in a sort of independent qualifier tournament to decide who would advance to the national tournament, as it's pretty hard to compare Northwesten to Elms or Maryville when we have no common opponents, but I can't complain. Northwestern had every opportunity to get a bid by winning all the games they were favored in, and they came up short.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2010, 04:13:11 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2010, 04:13:11 PM
It will come as no consolation to Northwestern's seniors should the Eagles fail to win a Pool B bid this season, but (Ralph, correct me if I'm mistaken) next season the UMAC will automatically qualify for a Pool A berth and thereby make the ever-shrinking Pool B a moot point for Northwestern and its fellow UMAC schools.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 03:55:43 PMQuote from: PointSpecial on January 18, 2010, 02:46:44 PMIf Steven's Point loses to 7-9 Oshkosh, I could see them dropping to 10th or so, and then another loss to whitewater could drop them below SNC. The NCAA would probably put Point ahead of SNC in terms of OWP, but the d3hoops poll would have to reward Norberts if they win out.Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 01:55:04 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on January 18, 2010, 01:19:03 PMYou might be right about St. Norbert, but you have to rank a 1 loss team somewhere after they scheduled the WIAC, CCIW, Chicago and then put my squad as the opener in their holiday tourney. I pretty much gave up pool B hope after the loss to Augsburg, but they certainly should be favored by double digits in every game from here on out.Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 12:14:23 PMI gotta tell you...
come on guys, after a disappointing start to the season, my squad's going to need a little help from the pool B gurus. This was not what I had in mind! :( To atone for this, please adjust the rankings to account for the fact that Northwestern currently has the best win out of any of the pool b's with a road win over #12 st. norberts.
It is that Northwestern MN road win over SNC that has me doubting whether SNC deserves to be ranked as high as it is.
I think that your best chance is for Northwestern to run the table and conference tourney. I believe that you need some help from other teams beating Chapman and Maryville to knock down their numbers, too.
All Norberts can do is beat who they play... but that doesn't necessarily mean that, if teams ahead of them keep losing, that they really deserve to matriculate all the way to the top of the rankings. Their OWP/OOWP is .408/.545 (compare that with Stevens Point, who also only has one loss and has an OWP/OOWP of .626/.568). Point is likely going to lose again this year because they're getting tested pretty much night in and night out by good WIAC teams. Even if Point would lose to, say, Oshkosh, who SNC beat, does that mean SNC should jump ahead of the Pointers?
I think that Norberts should stay at about the #15 range until they play someone who is having more success this year. The loss to Northwestern is a bad loss for them because Northwestern hasn't played any real top teams, either.
No chance. A loss to Oshkosh would hurt the Pointers... but it wouldn't drop them 9 places. There isn't a precedent for that... actually, there's a precendent against it. Transylvania beat Wash U and the Bears only dropped to 3rd and retained 4 of their 25 first place votes. They (Wash U) has since lost again, so they may drop a bit more, but they'll stay in the top 8 for sure, if not the top 6.
And D3Hoops would NOT have to award Norberts if they keep beating terrible teams... Average teams are supposed to beat terrible ones, so if SNC keeps beating bad teams, then it doesn't mean they're automatically great, it means they're automatically average.
Now, the may be better than average... but there's no guarantee and that's why we need to see them against a top foe. It's not out of the realm of possibilities to keep them at, say, #15... because there aren't marquee wins to push them above that mark.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Peter Principle... but it states that an employee will rise to his level of imcompetence (sooner or later he'll get up to a job he just can't do). Greg Sager modified it to be the St. Peter Principle a few years ago, after Gustavus Adolphus rose to a rank unbecoming of their true ability. They'd beaten enough bad teams to have a record that appeared remarkable... but it wasn't, under closer scrutiny. Just because team A keeps winning and team B, C, and D all lose, doesn't mean that A should automatically matriculate above B, C, and D... because it doesn't take into account B, C, and D's opponents.
And even if teams B, C, and D lost to less-than-excellent teams, you still have to look at the rest of their opponents. If they have to battle against great teams week in and week out, then they may falter and catch a not-so-good team who's pumped up because they're playing a front runner, and lose.
I don't want to necessarily go so far as to say that you need to compare all of these teams at their absolute best (because they aren't going to achieve that most nights)... but you do have to look at the body of work instead of just one game.
QuoteQuote from: PointSpecial on January 18, 2010, 02:46:44 PMThe OWP/OOWP is going to be very bad as the UMAC had very few in-region wins in the non-conference season.
What Northwestern can do to improve its stock is to win out. They can't do anything against their OWP/OOWP, which unfortunately for them is pretty low (.425/.486), but they can control their own winning percentage and they can cheer like heck for the teams they've played.
To be honest, the Northland loss is a pretty bad one. But apart from that, they've lost to some average teams from pretty good conferences, and they beat the top team from an average (this year at least) conference.
Back when Northwestern was NAIA we played in a sort of independent qualifier tournament to decide who would advance to the national tournament, as it's pretty hard to compare Northwesten to Elms or Maryville when we have no common opponents, but I can't complain. Northwestern had every opportunity to get a bid by winning all the games they were favored in, and they came up short.
The rubrics of OWP and OOWP aren't perfect... but it allows for the selectors to have some bearing on how good a 12-1 record is. If you beat 12 0-win teams and your sole loss is to a team that only beat you, that doesn't look very good... If, however, you've given 12 teams their only loss and you've lost to an undefeated team, that looks REALLY good (provided, of course, that the OOWP isn't very close to zero, or we're back to the first situation again).
Unfortunately it doesn't help them this year, but Northwestern (and the rest of the UMAC) is getting an auto bid next year. They're going to get at least one team in every year, no matter how good or bad they are. And if they're really good, they might get more than one.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Post by: AO on January 18, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 18, 2010, 04:13:11 PMYes, Pool A is next year for the UMAC. Perhaps by that time the NCAA can figure out a way to keep us out of the bracket of death known as the West? (the inclusion of the UMAC into the bracket of death, might make it a little less deadly)
It will come as no consolation to Northwestern's seniors should the Eagles fail to win a Pool B bid this season, but (Ralph, correct me if I'm mistaken) next season the UMAC will automatically qualify for a Pool A berth and thereby make the ever-shrinking Pool B a moot point for Northwestern and its fellow UMAC schools.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2010, 06:00:15 PM
Post by: John Gleich on January 18, 2010, 06:00:15 PM
Quote from: AO on January 18, 2010, 04:58:26 PM
Perhaps by that time the NCAA can figure out a way to keep us out of the bracket of death known as the West? (the inclusion of the UMAC into the bracket of death, might make it a little less deadly)
We're all hoping the bracket of death is a thing of the past... Unfortunately, the entity that is the NCAA is, well, us. The member schools make up the selection committees and so, unfortunately, there's nobody to blame but ourselves.
Now, that being said, it seems like there are some fairly easy solutions to some of the balance problems. The imbalance can't be done away with completely (especially when there is such a high concentration of really good teams in a relatively small geographic area), but it does seem like some creativity could be used to provide a better balance. If there is going to be a flight (or two or three) necessary for the Sweet 16, then move a quad out of the Bracket of Death from the outset.
Unfortunately, the next-closest bracket geographically is typically comprised of Great Lakes teams... and there have been some great imbalances there too in the not-too-distant past...
The women's bracket has managed to get a much more equitable bracket. It is absolutely possible... I'm just not sure how the selection committee gets the message from member schools that they want a true championship, not 4 regional tournaments where the winners meet for a 4 team tournament and the winner is declared the National Champ.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: wizbegs1304 on January 20, 2010, 03:50:34 PM
Post by: wizbegs1304 on January 20, 2010, 03:50:34 PM
Does the UMAC get an automatic bid next year?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2010, 04:09:13 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 20, 2010, 04:09:13 PM
Quote from: jamesd04 on January 20, 2010, 03:50:34 PMThe UMAC and the NECC are in line to receive their automatic bids in the 2010-11 season.
Does the UMAC get an automatic bid next year?
We should know definitely by May 2010.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: batteredbard on January 20, 2010, 07:21:20 PM
Post by: batteredbard on January 20, 2010, 07:21:20 PM
I love the work but in breaking it down but was curious as to how the numbers reflect games against D2 and NAIA teams? I've never been extremely clear as to how those games are judged anyway but was wondering if they are reflected in the OWP and OOWP? Or if its just games against D3 schools reflected in those numbers?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 07:33:25 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 07:33:25 PM
Quote from: batteredbard on January 20, 2010, 07:21:20 PM
I love the work but in breaking it down but was curious as to how the numbers reflect games against D2 and NAIA teams? I've never been extremely clear as to how those games are judged anyway but was wondering if they are reflected in the OWP and OOWP? Or if its just games against D3 schools reflected in those numbers?
OWP and OOWP not only do not count non-d3 games, they also exclude non-region d3 games. See the appropriate section of FAQ for more details.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on January 20, 2010, 08:08:08 PM
Post by: John Gleich on January 20, 2010, 08:08:08 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 07:33:25 PMQuote from: batteredbard on January 20, 2010, 07:21:20 PM
I love the work but in breaking it down but was curious as to how the numbers reflect games against D2 and NAIA teams? I've never been extremely clear as to how those games are judged anyway but was wondering if they are reflected in the OWP and OOWP? Or if its just games against D3 schools reflected in those numbers?
OWP and OOWP not only do not count non-d3 games, they also exclude non-region d3 games. See the appropriate section of FAQ for more details.
http://d3hoops.com/faq (http://d3hoops.com/faq) This would be the FAQ that Mr. Y is referring to, specifically THIS (http://d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=44). Look at 4. Albion.
The specific criteria for at-large bids and NCAA tournament seeding is found HERE (http://d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=45). The only place that non-D-III opponents would matter would be as a secondary criteria when the two teams that are being compared that have common opponent (• Results versus all common opponents).
Other than that, though, those games only count for pride or overall records (neither of which don't matter in terms of tournament selection).
EDIT: One of the things that makes selection of Pool B teams tough to select is that they DON'T necessarily have very many regional D-III games, so the body of work is not extensive. How do you compare a team that's 10-2 and one that's 5-1?
Some Pool B teams have been absolute pushovers when they're matched up against other NCAA tournament teams. Lately they've been better and, frankly, there have been fewer Pool B teams as conferences have gotten Pool A bids.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2010, 12:36:03 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 21, 2010, 12:36:03 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 20, 2010, 08:08:08 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 20, 2010, 07:33:25 PMQuote from: batteredbard on January 20, 2010, 07:21:20 PM
I love the work but in breaking it down but was curious as to how the numbers reflect games against D2 and NAIA teams? I've never been extremely clear as to how those games are judged anyway but was wondering if they are reflected in the OWP and OOWP? Or if its just games against D3 schools reflected in those numbers?
OWP and OOWP not only do not count non-d3 games, they also exclude non-region d3 games. See the appropriate section of FAQ for more details.
http://d3hoops.com/faq (http://d3hoops.com/faq) This would be the FAQ that Mr. Y is referring to, specifically THIS (http://d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=44). Look at 4. Albion.
The specific criteria for at-large bids and NCAA tournament seeding is found HERE (http://d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=45). The only place that non-D-III opponents would matter would be as a secondary criteria when the two teams that are being compared that have common opponent (• Results versus all common opponents).
Other than that, though, those games only count for pride or overall records (neither of which don't matter in terms of tournament selection).
EDIT: One of the things that makes selection of Pool B teams tough to select is that they DON'T necessarily have very many regional D-III games, so the body of work is not extensive. How do you compare a team that's 10-2 and one that's 5-1?
Some Pool B teams have been absolute pushovers when they're matched up against other NCAA tournament teams. Lately they've been better and, frankly, there have been fewer Pool B teams as conferences have gotten Pool A bids.
First sentence: True that, which is why they're the "Bumblin' Bs" (with the frequent exception of Maryville).
Second sentence: Also true. We may have to change the name of the thread to the "Disappearin' Bs". ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 21, 2010, 11:07:54 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 21, 2010, 11:07:54 AM
Maybe you non-Southeastern posters with pull at D3 schools can encourage coaches to schedule Maryville so the Scots will be better prepared to represent the Bumblin's in post season....
Nobody seems all that anxious to play MC in TN so the Scots wind up playing (and beating) all the neighboring NAIA and D2 schools, nono of which counts for anything except experience and local bragging rights.
Nobody seems all that anxious to play MC in TN so the Scots wind up playing (and beating) all the neighboring NAIA and D2 schools, nono of which counts for anything except experience and local bragging rights.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ron Domino on January 22, 2010, 11:33:22 AM
Post by: Ron Domino on January 22, 2010, 11:33:22 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 21, 2010, 11:07:54 AM
Maybe you non-Southeastern posters with pull at D3 schools can encourage coaches to schedule Maryville so the Scots will be better prepared to represent the Bumblin's in post season....
Nobody seems all that anxious to play MC in TN so the Scots wind up playing (and beating) all the neighboring NAIA and D2 schools, nono of which counts for anything except experience and local bragging rights.
Its a no win situation for any teams to schedule a Pool B team that can legitamately knock them off. It could hurt their in region rankings/record and if they don't win their conference tourney, essentially hurt their Pool C chances.
If I were a coach of a team that has the potential to get in the tourney, no way I would schedule an in region game with a pool B that has the potential to beat me.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on January 22, 2010, 01:42:23 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on January 22, 2010, 01:42:23 PM
Quote from: Ron Domino on January 22, 2010, 11:33:22 AMQuote from: scottiedoug on January 21, 2010, 11:07:54 AM
Maybe you non-Southeastern posters with pull at D3 schools can encourage coaches to schedule Maryville so the Scots will be better prepared to represent the Bumblin's in post season....
Nobody seems all that anxious to play MC in TN so the Scots wind up playing (and beating) all the neighboring NAIA and D2 schools, nono of which counts for anything except experience and local bragging rights.
Its a no win situation for any teams to schedule a Pool B team that can legitamately knock them off. It could hurt their in region rankings/record and if they don't win their conference tourney, essentially hurt their Pool C chances.
If I were a coach of a team that has the potential to get in the tourney, no way I would schedule an in region game with a pool B that has the potential to beat me.
Cost is another issue, there is a lot more distance between D3 schools in the south, it seems, than other regions.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 22, 2010, 08:52:03 PM
Post by: dahlby on January 22, 2010, 08:52:03 PM
Reads like Chapman University in Southern California has the same situation regarding scheduling that Maryville is encountering.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 22, 2010, 11:45:14 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 22, 2010, 11:45:14 PM
Are there D3 teams near Chapman that are any good that could schedule them but will not?
Distance is an issue for Maryville but there are D3 schools near enough geographically but apparently unwilling to take the chance of getting beat.
Distance is an issue for Maryville but there are D3 schools near enough geographically but apparently unwilling to take the chance of getting beat.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2010, 12:36:22 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2010, 12:36:22 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 22, 2010, 11:45:14 PM
Are there D3 teams near Chapman that are any good that could schedule them but will not?
Distance is an issue for Maryville but there are D3 schools near enough geographically but apparently unwilling to take the chance of getting beat.
Aside from fellow independents La Sierra and UC Santa Cruz (who are both terrible, and Chapman takes abuse for playing them several times each; plus La Sierra is only provisional so I'm not even sure if they count in regional record), there is only the SCIAC. Chapman does play (and usually beat) several of them; there is some dispute as to whether the ones they don't play are ducking them. And once SCIAC conference play starts, that source of games disappears.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2010, 12:55:20 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2010, 12:55:20 AM
LaSierra is still in its 3rd year of provisional status, altho' that is under review. Therefore, I think that their games still count.
LaSierra has not made satisfactory progress to date in the provisional pipeline.
We will see where they stand this summer.
As for Maryville, the SCAC schools are in conference play in the second semester. What good it is for SCAC teams, that have horrible travel schedules, to schedule a hard game in the midst of conference play, would be a tough question for a coach to answer. The SCAC plays 16 conference games.
Besides, those SCAC teams can choose from one of several GSAC teams. Maryville is a challenge.
LaSierra has not made satisfactory progress to date in the provisional pipeline.
We will see where they stand this summer.
As for Maryville, the SCAC schools are in conference play in the second semester. What good it is for SCAC teams, that have horrible travel schedules, to schedule a hard game in the midst of conference play, would be a tough question for a coach to answer. The SCAC plays 16 conference games.
Besides, those SCAC teams can choose from one of several GSAC teams. Maryville is a challenge.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 23, 2010, 01:03:48 AM
Post by: dahlby on January 23, 2010, 01:03:48 AM
The SCIAC also plays their conference games after the first of January. So Chapman's schedule is filled with whatever teams from that conference will play them before the conference season. Other than that, unless they can pick up a few tourney games against the midwest or northwest teams before the holidays, they are left with La Sierra, Santa Cruz and the U Dallas for the balance of the year. In addition, Chapman will schedule non D3 contests whenever they can.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on January 23, 2010, 11:38:16 AM
Post by: David Collinge on January 23, 2010, 11:38:16 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2010, 12:36:22 AMChapman does play (and usually beat) several of [members of the SCIAC]; there is some dispute as to whether the ones they don't play are ducking them.Before this gets out of hand, I'd like to note for the record that Chapman played seven of the 8 SCIAC members this season, and six of them last season, and that accounts for all eight SCIAC schools. There is no evidence that anyone is "ducking" anyone else.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 23, 2010, 01:18:06 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 23, 2010, 01:18:06 PM
Maryville does manage to play several USASouth teams regularly and often one or two ODAC teams before their league play begins. We can only hope the conference alignments in the southeast do some shifting, perhaps motivated by current travel costs. Maryville has managed to get Pool B invitations regularly but success in the NCAA would be more likely if their schedule in the last half of the year included some NCAA-caliber teams. They did manage to play Centre, Averett, Transy, Webster, Wabash, Emory, Oglethorpe, and Greensboro (all of which will likely have winning seasons) and get spanked by Guilford. That kind of lesson is useful later!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 23, 2010, 11:37:50 PM
Post by: dahlby on January 23, 2010, 11:37:50 PM
I was at La Sierra for Chapman's game tonight against U Dallas and heard that La Sierra will be going NAIA next year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2010, 12:22:32 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2010, 12:22:32 AM
Quote from: dahlby on January 23, 2010, 11:37:50 PMThat could mean any of these things. They had been stuck in the third year of the provisional process.
I was at La Sierra for Chapman's game tonight against U Dallas and heard that La Sierra will be going NAIA next year.
That they were unable to maintain the minimum number of sports.
That there were various compliance issues and hoops to jump thru for the NCAA that are not present in the NAIA.
That it will be easier to schedule games in the Golden State Athletic Conference than as a D-III independent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 24, 2010, 04:40:47 PM
Post by: dahlby on January 24, 2010, 04:40:47 PM
I was told that it was because they could not get in to the SCIAC, which would help scheduling and that they also would now be able to offer scholorships to get better athletes.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 24, 2010, 08:42:13 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 24, 2010, 08:42:13 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 23, 2010, 11:38:16 AMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 23, 2010, 12:36:22 AMChapman does play (and usually beat) several of [members of the SCIAC]; there is some dispute as to whether the ones they don't play are ducking them.Before this gets out of hand, I'd like to note for the record that Chapman played seven of the 8 SCIAC members this season, and six of them last season, and that accounts for all eight SCIAC schools. There is no evidence that anyone is "ducking" anyone else.
All you have to do is look at Chapman's schedules since 2002 as posted on D3hoops and you'll see that Chapman has played every SCIAC school multiple times. The only thing that's for certain is that Chapman is not ducking La Sierra.
As for the completely uninformed, gratuitous crack "there is some dispute as to whether the ones they don't play are ducking them," there's something else that's for certain: As usual, Ypsi doesn't know what he's talking about.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2010, 09:00:08 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2010, 09:00:08 PM
My statement about 'some dispute' was incorrect. I apparently misremembered that OxyBob and oldchap had had an argument about that. It was neither a 'crack' nor 'gratuitous'.
What IS a gratuitous crack is OB's comment about Chapman and La Sierra - once the SCIAC conference schedule begins, who exactly would you suggest Chapman play? Or should they just shut down the program on New Year's Day and hope for the postseason?
What IS a gratuitous crack is OB's comment about Chapman and La Sierra - once the SCIAC conference schedule begins, who exactly would you suggest Chapman play? Or should they just shut down the program on New Year's Day and hope for the postseason?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 24, 2010, 11:22:09 PM
Post by: oldchap on January 24, 2010, 11:22:09 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2010, 09:00:08 PM
What IS a gratuitous crack is OB's comment about Chapman and La Sierra - once the SCIAC conference schedule begins, who exactly would you suggest Chapman play? Or should they just shut down the program on New Year's Day and hope for the postseason?
Well said. When Conference plays starts, no SCIAC teams wants to play Chapman and I don't blame them by the way. We're left with West Coast Independents (La Sierra, UC Santa Cruz) and non D3 teams who agree to play us. That's slim pickings because you either have NAIA DI and Chapman will usually play the bottom of the GSAC (Hope, Vanguard, etc.), the top teams considering that it would not be "worthy" competition in the middle of their conference, plus the risk of injury. The rest is NAIA DII and "others" which is much inferior competition.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2010, 09:00:08 PM
My statement about 'some dispute' was incorrect. I apparently misremembered that OxyBob and oldchap had had an argument about that. It was neither a 'crack' nor 'gratuitous'.
I maintain that this year, Oxy refused to play Chapman. Too bad because they appear to be the second best (or perhaps the best?) team in the SCIAC this year: it would have helped Chapman's OWP and would have given Oxy a worthy non-conference opponent, as opposed to the teams they played: West Coast Baptist, La Sierra (twice) and American Sports University (what??).
Maybe Occidental College didn't digest their loss at Chapman from last year and staring at the prospect of 5 returning starters, preferred to pass so as not to hurt their chances in case of a Pool C bid....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 12:03:43 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 12:03:43 AM
Thanks oldchap. While I overstated the issue, I'm glad to know I wasn't crazy in remembering that you and OxyBob had a dispute concerning 'ducking'.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 12:20:39 AM
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 12:20:39 AM
Quote from: oldchap on January 24, 2010, 11:22:09 PM
I maintain that this year, Oxy refused to play Chapman.
Baloney, bunk, BS, hogwash, nonsense, rubbish, trash, and an outright lie. Other than that, you're accurate.
Hey, instead of playing La Sierra 4 times a season, maybe Chapman can figure out how to schedule a second game with Caltech instead of only playing CIT once per year.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 12:58:51 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 12:58:51 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 12:20:39 AMQuote from: oldchap on January 24, 2010, 11:22:09 PM
I maintain that this year, Oxy refused to play Chapman.
Baloney, bunk, BS, hogwash, nonsense, rubbish, trash, and an outright lie. Other than that, you're accurate.
Hey, instead of playing La Sierra 4 times a season, maybe Chapman can figure out how to schedule a second game with Caltech instead of only playing CIT once per year.
OxyBob
Or maybe Oxy could have figured out a way to play Chapman once instead of La Sierra twice? :o ;D
Rather than just trying to be a bully, perhaps you could suggest exactly who Chapman is supposed to play in January and February?
BTW, I checked Chapman's schedule (as listed on d3hoops.com) - they only play La Sierra three times, all during the SCIAC conference season.
BTW2, Chapman has a tolerably respectable .5805 RPI. I searched the West region standings (pool C board), but I couldn't find Oxy's. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: magicman on January 25, 2010, 01:10:30 AM
Post by: magicman on January 25, 2010, 01:10:30 AM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 12:20:39 AMQuote from: oldchap on January 24, 2010, 11:22:09 PM
I maintain that this year, Oxy refused to play Chapman.
Baloney, bunk, BS, hogwash, nonsense, rubbish, trash, and an outright lie. Other than that, you're accurate.
Hey, instead of playing La Sierra 4 times a season, maybe Chapman can figure out how to schedule a second game with Caltech instead of only playing CIT once per year.
OxyBob
OxyBob,
Isn't that kind of like the pot calling the kettle black? ??? I mean Oxy did play La Sierra twice, Caltech twice, American Sports U, and Holy Names U. Not to mention the powerhouse West Coast Baptist team that they beat up twice. (Chapman only played them once) By my count, Chapman would be 8-1 if they were in the SCIAC, with only the 1 point loss to CMS preventing them from a perfect SCIAC record. Once the teams in the SCIAC have played 9 games I wouldn't be surprised if Chapman's 8-1 slate would leave them, at worst, in a tie for 1st. ;) ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 02:06:17 AM
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 02:06:17 AM
This is sort of what I had in mind when I said "before this gets out of hand..." :-\
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 04:27:03 AM
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 04:27:03 AM
My solution is add Chapman to the SCIAC. Have Cal Tech move it sports to club status since there are not really competive in any sport. Great minds that play for the love of the game. Nothing wrong of that.
With shrinking pool of teams for Chapman to play this would be the best way to go. Not sure if the SCIAC don't want Chapman or Chapman don't want the SCIAC.
With shrinking pool of teams for Chapman to play this would be the best way to go. Not sure if the SCIAC don't want Chapman or Chapman don't want the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 25, 2010, 09:36:48 AM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 25, 2010, 09:36:48 AM
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 04:27:03 AMThe SCIAC doesn't want little minds that put sports first.
My solution is add Chapman to the SCIAC. Have Cal Tech move it sports to club status since there are not really competive in any sport. Great minds that play for the love of the game. Nothing wrong of that.
With shrinking pool of teams for Chapman to play this would be the best way to go. Not sure if the SCIAC don't want Chapman or Chapman don't want the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 10:24:44 AM
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 10:24:44 AM
Gray Fox,
Are you referring to the academic standing of Chapman University athletes versus the SCIAC?
Are you referring to the academic standing of Chapman University athletes versus the SCIAC?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 12:01:04 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: magicman on January 25, 2010, 01:10:30 AMQuote from: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 12:20:39 AMIsn't that kind of like the pot calling the kettle black? I mean Oxy did play La Sierra twice, Caltech twice, American Sports U, and Holy Names U. Not to mention the powerhouse West Coast Baptist team that they beat up twice. (Chapman only played them once) By my count, Chapman would be 8-1 if they were in the SCIAC, with only the 1 point loss to CMS preventing them from a perfect SCIAC record. Once the teams in the SCIAC have played 9 games I wouldn't be surprised if Chapman's 8-1 slate would leave them, at worst, in a tie for 1st.Quote from: oldchap on January 24, 2010, 11:22:09 PM
I maintain that this year, Oxy refused to play Chapman.
Baloney, bunk, BS, hogwash, nonsense, rubbish, trash, and an outright lie. Other than that, you're accurate.
Hey, instead of playing La Sierra 4 times a season, maybe Chapman can figure out how to schedule a second game with Caltech instead of only playing CIT once per year.
We're not talking about Oxy's nonconference schedule (which is stocked with cupcakes), we're talking about Chapman's schedule. The combined record of the D-III teams Chapman's played (against D-III competition) is 66-96 (.407). Chapman has played only one D-III team with a winning record (Claremont). As for racking up wins against the SCIAC, big deal. The SCIAC's been a complete dud this season. The only signature win by a SCIAC team is Pomona's win over Whitworth on a neutral court, but then again Pomona also lost to UC Santa Cruz. Chapman has beaten 0-16 Caltech. Chapman has beaten 5-11 La Verne twice, but then again ULV has a loss to Chapman's favorite pin cushion La Sierra. Enigmatic Cal Lutheran, which has everyone back from an 18-8 team last season and was supposed to be a power, is 7-9 and has lost 4 straight conference games, so beating them adds nothing to Chapman's resume. Redlands is 8-8. Whittier is 7-8. The only SCIAC team even getting the slightest whiff of the Top 25 is Claremont, and Chapman lost to them, but then again CMS has losses to 4-13 Willamette and 8-8 St. Olaf.
Chapman plays no one and beats no one.
Quote from: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 04:27:03 AM
My solution is add Chapman to the SCIAC. Have Cal Tech move it sports to club status since there are not really competive in any sport.
Chapman in the SCIAC will never happen, and the SCIAC isn't the SCIAC without Caltech.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 25, 2010, 12:39:20 PM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 25, 2010, 12:39:20 PM
Quote from: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 10:24:44 AMNo! Caltech is a charter member of the SCIAC. They have athletes that are competitive, but not in all sports. They even had a basketball player of the week a couple of weks ago. Read their home page for their philosophy. You will be impressed.
Gray Fox,
Are you referring to the academic standing of Chapman University athletes versus the SCIAC?
I was referring to the many posters over the years who think the SCIAC is all about athletics only. It is not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 01:04:58 PM
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 01:04:58 PM
GRAY FOX:
I know the Cal Tech philosophy. I have spoken with many a 'STUDENT ATHLETE' from that institution.
They all have my deepest respect in that they know how athletics fit in the game of life.
Regarding the various posters who you seem to indicate think that the SCIAC is all about athletics, there are several colleges in the conference that have very high admission standards AND field good programs. Chapman also fields good teams in most sports and have high academic requirements as well.
As far as Chapman becoming a member of the SCIAC, I too agree that it will probably be a cold day in
h--- before it happens. And besides, what would happen to all the debating on this site if they became members. Some posters would have nothing to argue about, or bait others in to an argument.
Thanks for clearing up your remark.
I know the Cal Tech philosophy. I have spoken with many a 'STUDENT ATHLETE' from that institution.
They all have my deepest respect in that they know how athletics fit in the game of life.
Regarding the various posters who you seem to indicate think that the SCIAC is all about athletics, there are several colleges in the conference that have very high admission standards AND field good programs. Chapman also fields good teams in most sports and have high academic requirements as well.
As far as Chapman becoming a member of the SCIAC, I too agree that it will probably be a cold day in
h--- before it happens. And besides, what would happen to all the debating on this site if they became members. Some posters would have nothing to argue about, or bait others in to an argument.
Thanks for clearing up your remark.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 01:11:31 PM
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 01:11:31 PM
OXY BOB:
Please get your facts straight, Chapman is only playing La Sierra THREE times this year. I hope that I need not start doubting all the other stats that you quote!
Please get your facts straight, Chapman is only playing La Sierra THREE times this year. I hope that I need not start doubting all the other stats that you quote!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 01:20:16 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 01:20:16 PM
Quote from: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 01:11:31 PM
Please get your facts straight, Chapman is only playing La Sierra THREE times this year.
You're right. This year 3 times, last year 4 times. So many times my head was spinning.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 02:00:15 PM
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 02:00:15 PM
If the SCIAC wont let Chapman in, Why dont each team schedule to play them 2 or 3 times per year. It seems like SCIAC teams won't schedule many games in most sports with Chapman. WHY ?
Not sure why there is so much noise about not letting Chapman in the SCIAC. They need teams to play and this would solve the issue. What did Chapman do that prevents them from joining. I have seen posts in the past but really dont make sense in todays world with budget contraints on travel for most schools.
As history shows some current SCIAC teams did leave the SCIAC and rejoin it later. Also all teams in the SCIAC are not charter teams and have join since the inception on the SCIAC.
1934 Caltech and Pomona leave SCIAC
1943 Whittier leaves SCIAC
Also Cal Tech is an outstanding university with outstanding students that may be some of the top students in the USA if not the world. I am sure that there are some outstanding athletes there too. BUT as a team they have not always been able to compete in all sports with teams as there
Oxy is also another outanding school in the SCIAC with many good teams with great student/athletes.
So it would nice if all could play nice in the sandbox in SOCAL.
Good luck to SCIAC teams in all sports. Chapman loves playing them and wishes they could plaay more games with the SCIAC.
Not sure why there is so much noise about not letting Chapman in the SCIAC. They need teams to play and this would solve the issue. What did Chapman do that prevents them from joining. I have seen posts in the past but really dont make sense in todays world with budget contraints on travel for most schools.
As history shows some current SCIAC teams did leave the SCIAC and rejoin it later. Also all teams in the SCIAC are not charter teams and have join since the inception on the SCIAC.
1934 Caltech and Pomona leave SCIAC
1943 Whittier leaves SCIAC
Also Cal Tech is an outstanding university with outstanding students that may be some of the top students in the USA if not the world. I am sure that there are some outstanding athletes there too. BUT as a team they have not always been able to compete in all sports with teams as there
Oxy is also another outanding school in the SCIAC with many good teams with great student/athletes.
So it would nice if all could play nice in the sandbox in SOCAL.
Good luck to SCIAC teams in all sports. Chapman loves playing them and wishes they could plaay more games with the SCIAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 25, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
Post by: oldchap on January 25, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
Despite OxyBob's rant about "playing no one and beating no one", the SCIAC teams which generally make it to the top of the Conference (Claremont, PP, Oxy) don't want Chapman in the SCIAC for the simple reason that they don't want to contend with another top competitor. Their beef is that Chapman has twice as many students as most of the other schools in the SCIAC, which arguably makes for a better pool of players. And it's not about Academics: sure, Caltech, PP, Claremont and Oxy are definitely academic powerhouses, but Chapman ranks well ahead or at least on par with Whittier, La Verne, Cal Lu and Redlands. Check the ratings from US World and News report or the statistics of entering students posted in the Princeton Review if you're not convinced.
As bad as OxyBob tries to portray Chapman's record, they nevertheless are 16-1 (the one loss suffered against CMS this season by one point) against all SCIAC teams over the last two years and have signature wins against teams which are arguably much better than average D3 teams. I can point to a win in Hawaii this season, against BYU Hawaii, a D2 team which was ranked 18th in the NABC poll at the time. Chapman's latest RPI is 58th in the nation, they are currently ranked 14th by d3hoops, 14th by the Massey Ratings, 17th in the latest posters poll and are a worthy contender to win a pool B bid this year.
I rest my case.
As bad as OxyBob tries to portray Chapman's record, they nevertheless are 16-1 (the one loss suffered against CMS this season by one point) against all SCIAC teams over the last two years and have signature wins against teams which are arguably much better than average D3 teams. I can point to a win in Hawaii this season, against BYU Hawaii, a D2 team which was ranked 18th in the NABC poll at the time. Chapman's latest RPI is 58th in the nation, they are currently ranked 14th by d3hoops, 14th by the Massey Ratings, 17th in the latest posters poll and are a worthy contender to win a pool B bid this year.
I rest my case.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 03:46:44 PM
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 25, 2010, 03:46:44 PM
Looks like SCIAC has no problem beating up on Chapman in football and playing them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 25, 2010, 05:28:38 PM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 25, 2010, 05:28:38 PM
Crash,
You forgot this piece of history. :-X
You forgot this piece of history. :-X
Quote1950 Chapman College begins competition as an associate in baseball, basketball and tennis
1952 Chapman's association ends
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 25, 2010, 06:00:54 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 25, 2010, 06:00:54 PM
Also Pomona-Pitzer dropping out of the conference for football and costing the league an automatic bid for four years.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 06:39:35 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 06:39:35 PM
Quote from: oldchap on January 25, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
As bad as OxyBob tries to portray Chapman's record, they nevertheless are 16-1 (the one loss suffered against CMS this season by one point) against all SCIAC teams over the last two years and have signature wins against teams which are arguably much better than average D3 teams.
Chapman doesn't have one signature win this season against a D-III team, which is pretty tough to do when you don't play anyone with a winning record. Chapman hasn't had a signature win against a D-III team since it beat Whitworth last season. Oh, wait, check that, Chapman lost that game. I know! The last signature win for Chapman against a D-III team was against Plattsburgh State in 2007. Ooops, darn it, Chapman lost that game, too. Now I remember! Chapman played and beat the excellent Puget Sound team in 2006. No, my bad again. Chapman lost that game, too.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 12:58:51 AM
perhaps you could suggest exactly who Chapman is supposed to play in January and February?
Let's turn that question on its head, shall we? Since Chapman knows that once conference season starts it's going to struggle to get games except against La Sierra over and over, perhaps during November and December Chapman should not schedule Caltech and two games against La Verne and instead clamor to get some games against some quality D-III snowbirds. Heck, in the last few years D-III teams like St. Thomas, Mass-Dartmouth, Puget Sound, UW-Stevens Point, and Wooster have been out here. Maybe Chapman could have scheduled one or more of them instead of Swarthmore and Colorado College. Now there's ducking for you.
Quote from: oldchap on January 25, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
Their beef is that Chapman has twice as many students as most of the other schools in the SCIAC
Let's see, Chapman has 4,300 underclassmen and growing. No SCIAC school has 3,000 -- UR has 2,800, Claremont and Mudd have 2,000 (which is kind of a joke, since there are practically no Mudders who play), Pomona and Pitzer have 2,500, CLU has 2,000, Whittier has 1,300, Oxy has 1,900, ULV has 1,600, and Caltech has 920 -- and yet Chapman can't fathom why the SCIAC doesn't want them.
Now go and get some rest for those two big games coming up against 2-14 Southwestern College.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2010, 07:00:42 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2010, 07:00:42 PM
The undergraduate enrollment argument is rather silly. Elmhurst has half again as many undergrads as any other CCIW school. Calvin has over 4,000 students and Hope over 3,200, and no other MIAA school has more than 2,000 (most of them are closer to 1,000 than 2,000, in fact). And in the UAA, New York University has over 21,000 undergrads. Nobody else in the league has more than 7,000; Wash U is next highest with a tad under 7,000, Carnegie Mellon follows with slightly less than 6,000, and everyone else is below that, all the way down to Brandeis at a comparatively tiny 3,196.
Nobody in the CCIW is clamoring to get rid of Elmhurst. Nobody in the MIAA gripes about Calvin being that much larger than everybody else. And no one in UAA circles is advocating that NYU get the heave-ho from the league for being too big.
Nobody in the CCIW is clamoring to get rid of Elmhurst. Nobody in the MIAA gripes about Calvin being that much larger than everybody else. And no one in UAA circles is advocating that NYU get the heave-ho from the league for being too big.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 07:05:13 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 07:05:13 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 06:39:35 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 12:58:51 AM
perhaps you could suggest exactly who Chapman is supposed to play in January and February?
Let's turn that question on its head, shall we? Since Chapman knows that once conference season starts it's going to struggle to get games except against La Sierra over and over, perhaps during November and December Chapman should not schedule Caltech and two games against La Verne and instead clamor to get some games against some quality D-III snowbirds. Heck, in the last few years D-III teams like St. Thomas, Mass-Dartmouth, Puget Sound, UW-Stevens Point, and Wooster have been out here. Maybe Chapman could have scheduled one or more of them instead of Swarthmore and Colorado College. Now there's ducking for you.
Or perhaps a game against Oxy? :D
They have little choice except for 3 games against La Sierra in January and February. Did Oxy have no choices other than 2 games against La Sierra before the conference season began? :P
Quote from: OxyBob on January 25, 2010, 06:39:35 PMQuote from: oldchap on January 25, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
Their beef is that Chapman has twice as many students as most of the other schools in the SCIAC
Let's see, Chapman has 4,300 underclassmen and growing. No SCIAC school has 3,000 -- UR has 2,800, Claremont and Mudd have 2,000 (which is kind of a joke, since there are practically no Mudders who play), Pomona and Pitzer have 2,500, CLU has 2,000, Whittier has 1,300, Oxy has 1,900, ULV has 1,600, and Caltech has 920 -- and yet Chapman can't fathom why the SCIAC doesn't want them.
Now go and get some rest for those two big games coming up against 2-14 Southwestern College.
OxyBob
Unless the basketball team in constituted by holding open try-outs among kids in the dorms (in which case, I'll predict an 0-25 season), student enrollment has ZERO (direct) effect on team quality. Athletes are separately recruited. Duke is generally a heck of a lot better than Minnesota with one-sixth the enrollment. If student-body size mattered, NYU would take home the walnut-and-bronze more often than not.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 25, 2010, 07:54:53 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 25, 2010, 07:54:53 PM
"Chapman is a giant sized McLarge Huge school that will overwhelm us all" is such a bogus argument.
The OAC has a 3,000 student spread from Baldwin Wallace to Heidelberg.
There is a 4,000 student difference between St. Thomas and St. Mary's in the MIAC.
You can always find reasons to shut a team out of a conference (it happened to Wabash, the story was that they were invited to join the CCIW and were blackballed anyway) but the enrollment numbers as an excuse is exceedingly lame.
The OAC has a 3,000 student spread from Baldwin Wallace to Heidelberg.
There is a 4,000 student difference between St. Thomas and St. Mary's in the MIAC.
You can always find reasons to shut a team out of a conference (it happened to Wabash, the story was that they were invited to join the CCIW and were blackballed anyway) but the enrollment numbers as an excuse is exceedingly lame.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 08:14:26 PM
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 08:14:26 PM
Whatever the reasons may be that Chapman is not a member of the SCIAC, the fact remains that they aren't a member. I don't understand the logic that dictates that, because Occidental or Pomona-Pitzer or whomever happens to be located in Southern California, they have an obligation to have Chapman, not a member of their conference, on their schedule. If Oxy or P-P don't want to play Chapman in a given year, there's no reason why they should. And yet I again feel compelled to point out that every member of the SCIAC schedules Chapman almost every year.
The endless argument over scheduling (and "ducking") has no merit, and the endless argument over why Chapman is not in the SCIAC is never going to be resolved in Posting Up.
The endless argument over scheduling (and "ducking") has no merit, and the endless argument over why Chapman is not in the SCIAC is never going to be resolved in Posting Up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 08:29:03 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 08:29:03 PM
David, you are right, of course, on all points. But jabbing the stick into the beehive known as OxyBob is just too much fun to resist. Especially when he takes such cheap shots at Chapman, while Oxy's scheduling is less defensible. :P
He continually harps on La Sierra. Chapman plays them thrice this year (of necessity). Why did Oxy play them twice, with plenty of other choices?
And why such a lame argument against Chapman in the SCIAC? ;) If there is a better argument, OB should provide it.
He continually harps on La Sierra. Chapman plays them thrice this year (of necessity). Why did Oxy play them twice, with plenty of other choices?
And why such a lame argument against Chapman in the SCIAC? ;) If there is a better argument, OB should provide it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2010, 08:38:46 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 25, 2010, 08:38:46 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 08:14:26 PMIn fact, Pool B has been very beneficial to Chapman in several sports, e.g., baseball and women's hoops that we have seen covered on these sites. If Chapman men had not lost to UDallas in January 2009, they would have made a great run at the Pool B last year. That West Region independents tourney (Chapman, UDallas and UC Banana Slug) knocked Chapman out of the "Conference Tourney". They would have had an in-region record of 18-2.
Whatever the reasons may be that Chapman is not a member of the SCIAC, the fact remains that they aren't a member. I don't understand the logic that dictates that, because Occidental or Pomona-Pitzer or whomever happens to be located in Southern California, they have an obligation to have Chapman, not a member of their conference, on their schedule. If Oxy or P-P don't want to play Chapman in a given year, there's no reason why they should. And yet I again feel compelled to point out that every member of the SCIAC schedules Chapman almost every year.
The endless argument over scheduling (and "ducking") has no merit, and the endless argument over why Chapman is not in the SCIAC is never going to be resolved in Posting Up.
Pool B discussion (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=2870.1395) in 2009 starting about page 94 for the next 15-20 pages...
The 2009 loss to UDallas still must hurt! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 08:40:11 PM
Post by: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 08:40:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 08:29:03 PMBut jabbing the stick into the beehive known as OxyBob is just too much fun to resist.Jabbing sticks into beehives, has that generally worked out well for you?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 08:59:42 PM
Post by: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 08:59:42 PM
OxyBob is entitled to his opinion based on the facts that he knows. So let's all keep our arguments to the facts that we know. (I can't believe I am defending OxyBob's first amendment rights, this will cost me what little karma I have!)
The rationale I have heard from SCIAC people regarding not inviting Chapman to join the conference is regarding:
>Chapman academics not up to snuff with the SCIAC... (not anymore).
>The SCIAC is willing to schedule football with CU because it gives them an eight team rotation during the season when normally other schools are in conference play. This also saves travel costs.
> CU is too big of a school (strange, but depending on the sport, we all field the same number of players at a time on the field, diamond and/or court).
>The most logical I can think of is regarding the automatic conference bid. The fact that CU could win the conference in any of a number of sports is very realistic, so why not leave CU to play for a pool B bid and leave the other SCIAC schools to fight for the automatic qualifer. Also, it would limit the SCIAC's ability to get a pool C bid, which in most sports would be doubtful anyway.
But, the bottom line is that Chapman is not in the SCIAC and probably won't be for a while, if ever, so we all need to move on. Although it is fun tossing the "in jest" jabs around.
The rationale I have heard from SCIAC people regarding not inviting Chapman to join the conference is regarding:
>Chapman academics not up to snuff with the SCIAC... (not anymore).
>The SCIAC is willing to schedule football with CU because it gives them an eight team rotation during the season when normally other schools are in conference play. This also saves travel costs.
> CU is too big of a school (strange, but depending on the sport, we all field the same number of players at a time on the field, diamond and/or court).
>The most logical I can think of is regarding the automatic conference bid. The fact that CU could win the conference in any of a number of sports is very realistic, so why not leave CU to play for a pool B bid and leave the other SCIAC schools to fight for the automatic qualifer. Also, it would limit the SCIAC's ability to get a pool C bid, which in most sports would be doubtful anyway.
But, the bottom line is that Chapman is not in the SCIAC and probably won't be for a while, if ever, so we all need to move on. Although it is fun tossing the "in jest" jabs around.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 09:03:32 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 25, 2010, 08:40:11 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 25, 2010, 08:29:03 PMBut jabbing the stick into the beehive known as OxyBob is just too much fun to resist.Jabbing sticks into beehives, has that generally worked out well for you?
In real life, probably not (I get anaphylactic shock from bee stings), but fear not: I am now immune to stings from OB. There will be no recurrence of previous 'unpleasantries'.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: elfinley on January 26, 2010, 03:36:26 AM
Post by: elfinley on January 26, 2010, 03:36:26 AM
I assume everyone knows that you cannot just "join" a conference. You cant just show up one day and say "Here we are! Who do we play?" A team has to apply to get in a conference.
I know Chapman has applied many times to join, only to be declined. As for why, CU is as good academically or better than most SCIAC's. As for the student body, kinda ridiculous, but Chapman does plan on almost doubling the the current student body in the next 8 to 10 years, so that could be a problem. Who knows?
There was one year when I think it was PP that dropped football and the SCIAC offered Chapman to join the conference, but only football! Maybe to keep their AQ, but the school president said no, it's all or none.
As for men's basketball, my cousin used to play for Chapman, I went to CU, and I am good friends with some of the coaches and I have been told coach Bokosky every year attempts to schedule SCIAC opponents twice a year. The only team to willing to do it has been LaVerne. Bokosky has even been willing to play on weeks teams play CIT, but they decline.
Why has CU and Oxy not play this year? Probably a matter of not finding a date that fits for both teams. It happens, no one is ducking anybody, everyone just relax.
Perhaps instead of ragging Chapman all the time, maybe we should ask some of the SCIAC's why they do not play Chapman more. They have no obligation to do so, but if West Coast Baptist, La Sierra, or that Sports University is so bad, why not give those spots to Chapman?
Lets all be nice to one another.
I know Chapman has applied many times to join, only to be declined. As for why, CU is as good academically or better than most SCIAC's. As for the student body, kinda ridiculous, but Chapman does plan on almost doubling the the current student body in the next 8 to 10 years, so that could be a problem. Who knows?
There was one year when I think it was PP that dropped football and the SCIAC offered Chapman to join the conference, but only football! Maybe to keep their AQ, but the school president said no, it's all or none.
As for men's basketball, my cousin used to play for Chapman, I went to CU, and I am good friends with some of the coaches and I have been told coach Bokosky every year attempts to schedule SCIAC opponents twice a year. The only team to willing to do it has been LaVerne. Bokosky has even been willing to play on weeks teams play CIT, but they decline.
Why has CU and Oxy not play this year? Probably a matter of not finding a date that fits for both teams. It happens, no one is ducking anybody, everyone just relax.
Perhaps instead of ragging Chapman all the time, maybe we should ask some of the SCIAC's why they do not play Chapman more. They have no obligation to do so, but if West Coast Baptist, La Sierra, or that Sports University is so bad, why not give those spots to Chapman?
Lets all be nice to one another.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 26, 2010, 01:01:18 PM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 26, 2010, 01:01:18 PM
elf,
Nice post. +k
Maybe Chapman will be more on a par (except the location) with Pepperdine in ten years. That would be a good fit for them.
Nice post. +k
Maybe Chapman will be more on a par (except the location) with Pepperdine in ten years. That would be a good fit for them.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 26, 2010, 01:58:06 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 26, 2010, 01:58:06 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2010, 07:00:42 PM
The undergraduate enrollment argument is rather silly.
You are correct that argument is silly in itself. In Chapman's case, however, not only has its student population grown substantially, but they have athletics aspirations beyond D-III, which is inconsistent with the SCIAC. I should have been clearer.
Quote from: dahlby on January 25, 2010, 08:59:42 PM
I can't believe I am defending OxyBob's first amendment rights
I disapprove of who you play, but I will defend to the death your right to play them.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2010, 09:32:54 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2010, 09:32:54 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 26, 2010, 01:58:06 PMQuote from: Gregory Sager on January 25, 2010, 07:00:42 PM
The undergraduate enrollment argument is rather silly.
You are correct that argument is silly in itself. In Chapman's case, however, not only has its student population grown substantially, but they have athletics aspirations beyond D-III, which is inconsistent with the SCIAC. I should have been clearer.
D-1? Yikes, there are way too many running around right now that have no business in D-1.
If they were content in D-3 would the SCIAC want them? Or would they find another excuse?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2010, 09:51:57 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 26, 2010, 09:51:57 PM
BTW - Looking at Chapman's stats, they fail the 'statistical integrity test'.
Almost every game has unbalanced minutes - and way too many dead ball rebounds (and no team rebounds).
C'mon - how hard is it to balance a box score?
Almost every game has unbalanced minutes - and way too many dead ball rebounds (and no team rebounds).
C'mon - how hard is it to balance a box score?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 26, 2010, 09:52:21 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 26, 2010, 09:52:21 PM
Quote from: elfinley on January 26, 2010, 03:36:26 AM
Why has CU and Oxy not play this year? Probably a matter of not finding a date that fits for both teams. It happens, no one is ducking anybody, everyone just relax.
Thanks for a little voice of reason!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gray Fox on January 26, 2010, 09:58:13 PM
Post by: Gray Fox on January 26, 2010, 09:58:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 26, 2010, 09:52:21 PMThe Chapman guys have complained on three boards, this one and two in the west. They won't buy that logic.Quote from: elfinley on January 26, 2010, 03:36:26 AM
Why has CU and Oxy not play this year? Probably a matter of not finding a date that fits for both teams. It happens, no one is ducking anybody, everyone just relax.
Thanks for a little voice of reason!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 26, 2010, 10:08:40 PM
Post by: dahlby on January 26, 2010, 10:08:40 PM
Guess what? I still don't buy it. Ask the Oxy coach why they don't schedule Chapman. I have mentioned this several times, but I guess someone (s) fears the answer.
Regarding OxyBob's comments regarding Chapman's other division aspirations, I have commented on this several times that there are no other intentions at this time or in the near future. It is not something that the admin has discussed.
I suggest that some posters do a little homework before throwing out comments, or at least state "in your opinion" and list your reasoning. An example of this would be CU and Oxy not being able to find a convenient date. Sounds good, but way off, way, way off.
Regarding OxyBob's comments regarding Chapman's other division aspirations, I have commented on this several times that there are no other intentions at this time or in the near future. It is not something that the admin has discussed.
I suggest that some posters do a little homework before throwing out comments, or at least state "in your opinion" and list your reasoning. An example of this would be CU and Oxy not being able to find a convenient date. Sounds good, but way off, way, way off.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 27, 2010, 09:27:15 AM
Post by: OxyBob on January 27, 2010, 09:27:15 AM
Quote from: dahlby on January 26, 2010, 10:08:40 PM
Guess what? I still don't buy it. Ask the Oxy coach why they don't schedule Chapman. I have mentioned this several times, but I guess someone (s) fears the answer.
I could only find results back to the 1996-1997 season.
1996 DNP
1997 DNP
1998 Oxy 71 Chapman 45
1999 Chapman 70 Oxy 63
2000 Chapman 63 Oxy 59
2001 Oxy 68 Chapman 52
2002 Oxy 80 Chapman 64
2003 Oxy 62 Chapman 60
2004 DNP
2005 Oxy 65 Chapman 60
2006 Oxy 67 Chapman 62
2007 Oxy 69 Chapman 45
2008 Chapman 61 Oxy 46
2009 DNP
Now take your "Ask the Oxy coach why they don't schedule Chapman" and blow it out your ass.
Quote from: dahlby on January 26, 2010, 10:08:40 PM
Regarding OxyBob's comments regarding Chapman's other division aspirations, I have commented on this several times that there are no other intentions at this time or in the near future. It is not something that the admin has discussed.
A head coach of one of Chapman's 18 varsity teams told me to my face that Chapman wanted to move up from D-III. So either he was lying or he didn't know what he was talking about. Which was it?
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 27, 2010, 10:32:52 AM
Post by: dahlby on January 27, 2010, 10:32:52 AM
OxyBob, my information comes from higher up than a coach. I don't call anyone a liar, but there may be some confusion by the coach that you talked with.
Regarding your "class-less" scheduling remark, I was referring to the fact that Oxy would not schedule Chapman this year. Now OxyBob, go ask your coach what the problem was.
By the way, I am still hoping Oxy wins the SCIAC Tourney and that CU gets a post season bid, if only to put the debate to rest!!!
Cheers, and settle down. You need to watch your blood pressure so early in the morning!
Regarding your "class-less" scheduling remark, I was referring to the fact that Oxy would not schedule Chapman this year. Now OxyBob, go ask your coach what the problem was.
By the way, I am still hoping Oxy wins the SCIAC Tourney and that CU gets a post season bid, if only to put the debate to rest!!!
Cheers, and settle down. You need to watch your blood pressure so early in the morning!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 27, 2010, 11:04:25 AM
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on January 27, 2010, 11:04:25 AM
Once a year or not a all in the past Chapman vs OXY.
Hey I am sure Chapman would love to play OXY 2/3 times a year to replace some of the teams they presently play.
Maybe budgets/travel costs of playing teams not in the area may force the issue in future years.
It has already had a major impact in SOCAL D1 baseball where more games are with local teams and less with teams outside the immediate area.
Hey I am sure Chapman would love to play OXY 2/3 times a year to replace some of the teams they presently play.
Maybe budgets/travel costs of playing teams not in the area may force the issue in future years.
It has already had a major impact in SOCAL D1 baseball where more games are with local teams and less with teams outside the immediate area.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 01:48:30 PM
Post by: sac on January 27, 2010, 01:48:30 PM
still?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on January 29, 2010, 08:08:49 AM
Post by: gordonmann on January 29, 2010, 08:08:49 AM
Justin Riley, forward for No. 13 Chapman, has been blogging for D3hoops.com throughout the Panthers' season. His latest post covers this very subject - scheduling difficulties.
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/insider/justin-riley/
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/insider/justin-riley/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: toooldtoplay on January 29, 2010, 09:40:18 AM
Post by: toooldtoplay on January 29, 2010, 09:40:18 AM
Thanks for the link. It is great to hear what the players think and is food for thought. Independents always have a rough road January and February and unless they can develop a very high level program consistently (like Notre Dame in football??) it will not change. Justin - keep up the good work. You are a pleasure to read.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 30, 2010, 10:01:42 PM
Post by: oldchap on January 30, 2010, 10:01:42 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 29, 2010, 08:08:49 AM
Justin Riley, forward for No. 13 Chapman, has been blogging for D3hoops.com throughout the Panthers' season. His latest post covers this very subject - scheduling difficulties.
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/insider/justin-riley/
Quote from: oldchap on January 30, 2010, 09:50:40 PM
Justin,
I know you're reading this and let me say that I found the last entry to your blog nicely developed and eloquent. It is firm, to the point, without ever being shrill, apologetic or vindictive. It should be an inspiration for the Panthers to excel in the post season this year, if only to quiet the critics but also to give the Chapman's men basketball team the respect they deserve. Keep up the good work on and off the court!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 31, 2010, 08:31:33 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 31, 2010, 08:31:33 PM
Piedmont beat Maryville 80-78 OT at home. They lead the GSAC 3-0 after the first half of the season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 04, 2010, 10:20:43 AM
Post by: OxyBob on February 04, 2010, 10:20:43 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 29, 2010, 08:08:49 AM
Justin Riley, forward for No. 13 Chapman, has been blogging for D3hoops.com throughout the Panthers' season. His latest post covers this very subject - scheduling difficulties.
Speaking of scheduling difficulties, last night Chapman got its second win in a week over 2-18 Southwestern College, a lousy NCCAA-II team. Another feather in Chapman's cap! No doubt the D3hoops Top 25 voters will move Chapman farther up in the rankings for those sterling wins. Coming up on Feb. 6: Chapman's third game in a month against 4-16 La Sierra. Too bad the D-III Independents Postseason Tournament was canceled this year, or Chapman would have played La Sierra a fourth time.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 04, 2010, 11:57:20 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 04, 2010, 11:57:20 AM
I do not want to pile on here about Chapman's scheduling issues but I do wonder why they get so much love in the national rankings.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2010, 12:29:03 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2010, 12:29:03 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 04, 2010, 11:57:20 AM
I do not want to pile on here about Chapman's scheduling issues but I do wonder why they get so much love in the national rankings.
"Float-up". Everyone above them has gotten beat so they gradually fill the spot that is 1 or 2 ahead of them. They haven't lost, but no one else seems to be holding onto the slot in the rankings.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 04, 2010, 07:36:50 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 04, 2010, 07:36:50 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 04, 2010, 10:20:43 AM
Speaking of scheduling difficulties, last night Chapman got its second win in a week over 2-18 Southwestern College, a lousy NCCAA-II team. Another feather in Chapman's cap! No doubt the D3hoops Top 25 voters will move Chapman farther up in the rankings for those sterling wins. Coming up on Feb. 6: Chapman's third game in a month against 4-16 La Sierra. Too bad the D-III Independents Postseason Tournament was canceled this year, or Chapman would have played La Sierra a fourth time.
OxyBob
It hurts, OxyBob, doesn't it?! I feel for you.... not!!! :D
Well, this year Chapman convincingly beat everyone they were supposed to beat and lost only one D3 game that could have gone either way, against an opponent which is currently the favorite at winning an AQ. As icing on the cake, they even had a nice win on the road against a DII team that was ranked at the time. Irrelevant you might say, sure I'll give you this, but nevertheless I'd call that a "feather in Chapman's cap". ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2010, 07:40:56 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on February 04, 2010, 07:40:56 PM
OB,
I'm sure the Chapman posters can do just fine without my support, but I have to ask again - who the hell do you EXPECT Chapman to play when the SCIAC is in session? :P
I'm sure the Chapman posters can do just fine without my support, but I have to ask again - who the hell do you EXPECT Chapman to play when the SCIAC is in session? :P
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:03:45 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:03:45 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 04, 2010, 10:20:43 AMQuote from: gordonmann on January 29, 2010, 08:08:49 AM
Justin Riley, forward for No. 13 Chapman, has been blogging for D3hoops.com throughout the Panthers' season. His latest post covers this very subject - scheduling difficulties.
Speaking of scheduling difficulties, last night Chapman got its second win in a week over 2-18 Southwestern College, a lousy NCCAA-II team.
While it's technically accurate to refer to Southwestern (AZ) as an NCCAA school, it's more accurate to refer to it as an NAIA-2 school. Southwestern is a dual affiliate, but the NAIA-2 affiliation takes precedence, as that's the organization for whose postseason tournament Southwestern has declared. NCCAA rules are written in such a way as to allow any dual-affiliate member that declares for the other organization's postseason tourney (be it NCAA, NAIA, or USCAA) but which doesn't qualify for it to participate in the NCCAA tourney. In a sense it's a consolation-prize tourney, a la the ECAC's, although the NCCAA folks certainly don't think of it that way.
The NAIA-2 is clearly a step above the NCCAA as well, although Southwestern definitely isn't impressing anyone on that level in 2009-10. The only NAIA team that the Eagles have beaten this year is Walla Walla (the other Eagles win came over D3 LaSierra). In the D3 vs. D1/D2/NAIA/NCCAA room, games played against the Eagles are logged as games played against an NAIA-2 squad.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 04, 2010, 10:30:55 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 04, 2010, 10:30:55 PM
I didn't even know that the NCCAA had multiple divisions. Are those in NCCAA-II the Children of a Lesser God?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:39:17 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:39:17 PM
In both NCCAA tourneys the teams that get eliminated in the opening round get bigger trophies than the teams that win their respective tournaments. "For the last will be first, and the first will be last." (Matthew 20:16)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 05, 2010, 09:04:03 AM
Post by: OxyBob on February 05, 2010, 09:04:03 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:03:45 PM
While it's technically accurate to refer to Southwestern (AZ) as an NCCAA school, it's more accurate to refer to it as an NAIA-2 school.
The Massey Ratings list Southwestern as an NCCAA-II school. That's where I got it. I'm sure that Ken Massey would be very interested in your abstruse, hairsplitting analysis. You can forward it to him at kmassey@masseyratings.com.
Quote from: oldchap on February 04, 2010, 07:36:50 PMQuote from: OxyBob on February 04, 2010, 10:20:43 AMAs icing on the cake, they even had a nice win on the road against a DII team that was ranked at the time. Irrelevant you might say, sure I'll give you this, but nevertheless I'd call that a "feather in Chapman's cap".
Speaking of scheduling difficulties, last night Chapman got its second win in a week over 2-18 Southwestern College, a lousy NCCAA-II team. Another feather in Chapman's cap!
I was actually a little stingy. Chapman beat 2-18 Southwestern twice within a week, so Chapman deserves two feathers for that.
QuoteAre those in NCCAA-II the Children of a Lesser God?
[inside joke]"Improving your life through better hearing is Columbia Hearing Centers mission and our personal commitment to you."[/inside joke]
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on February 05, 2010, 10:20:32 AM
Post by: AO on February 05, 2010, 10:20:32 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:03:45 PMHaving played in an NCCAA national tournament (d-1), maybe I can shed some light on the issue. Though I know rather little about nccaa d-2 I believe there aren't any NAIA schools in d-2. NCCAA d-1 teams are probably 2/3rds naia -2, with the rest being ncaa-2 and naia-1, with a couple d3 squads thrown in there (Northwestern, Greenville and Geneva). Gardner-Webb of NCAA divison 1 played in the NCCAA up until maybe 5 years ago. Non-scholarship nccaa teams can pick between the two divisions (Crown, North Central and some pennsylannia teams from d-3 play in nccaa-2).Quote from: OxyBob on February 04, 2010, 10:20:43 AMQuote from: gordonmann on January 29, 2010, 08:08:49 AM
Justin Riley, forward for No. 13 Chapman, has been blogging for D3hoops.com throughout the Panthers' season. His latest post covers this very subject - scheduling difficulties.
Speaking of scheduling difficulties, last night Chapman got its second win in a week over 2-18 Southwestern College, a lousy NCCAA-II team.
While it's technically accurate to refer to Southwestern (AZ) as an NCCAA school, it's more accurate to refer to it as an NAIA-2 school. Southwestern is a dual affiliate, but the NAIA-2 affiliation takes precedence, as that's the organization for whose postseason tournament Southwestern has declared. NCCAA rules are written in such a way as to allow any dual-affiliate member that declares for the other organization's postseason tourney (be it NCAA, NAIA, or USCAA) but which doesn't qualify for it to participate in the NCCAA tourney. In a sense it's a consolation-prize tourney, a la the ECAC's, although the NCCAA folks certainly don't think of it that way.
The NAIA-2 is clearly a step above the NCCAA as well, although Southwestern definitely isn't impressing anyone on that level in 2009-10. The only NAIA team that the Eagles have beaten this year is Walla Walla (the other Eagles win came over D3 LaSierra). In the D3 vs. D1/D2/NAIA/NCCAA room, games played against the Eagles are logged as games played against an NAIA-2 squad.
The Southwestern that Chapman played is playing in its first year in NAIA-2 and NCCAA-1, and they are definitely struggling, they're 44th out of 46 in the nccaa standings (http://www.thenccaa.org/mensbasketstat.htm). Interestingly enough, if Chapman had scheduled the southwestern (Oklahoma) that plays in nccaa d-2, they might have got a better game as that squad soundly beat ncaa-2 East Central University. Or if they scheduled Grace Bible College in Grand Rapids which beat Calvin earlier in the year (when I first looked at that score I assumed it was Grace out of Indiana which plays naia and nccaa-1, but no it was calvin's cross town rival out of the nccaa2)
The NCCAA d-1 tournament does feel like a consolation tournament for many of the teams as they were hoping for naia or ncaa2 berths. When I played at Northwestern we were a little more excited to be playing as this was the only post-season we were eligible for (this is the first year Northwestern can play in the ncaa playoffs-aq next year). The d-1 tournament is a step up compared to the schedule that some naia schools play as it is the best of the schools that don't make it to the naia tournament. You can't really say that the NAIA overall is a step up from the NCCAA as the NCCAA is made up of the NAIA. For schools like mine who play in ncaa-3 and nccaa-1, the nccaa tournament is more challenging than regular season d-3 play, and most years the champion from the nccaa would beat the d-3 champion. The NCCAA d-2 tournament is the highest goal for a majority of the squads that play in that division (though not the toughest games for schools like Grace of Grand Rapids who are scheduling anybody during the regular season).
So to sum up, just because you play against a school that plays in the NCCAA doesn't mean it's going to be a cakewalk. Chapman doesn't have many options here and shouldn't be criticized for scheduling Southwestern.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2010, 11:51:13 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2010, 11:51:13 AM
They shouldn't, but OB has a bug up his you-know-where about it and has taken this issue to the ax-grinding level.
This is an official warning to OB -- enough. Move on.
This is an official warning to OB -- enough. Move on.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on February 05, 2010, 12:07:07 PM
Post by: sac on February 05, 2010, 12:07:07 PM
Grace Bible is the defending National Champion in NCCAA-II and are currently ranked #1. Over the past two seasons they own victories over 2 NCAA D3 programs and D2 Ferris State. Their only losses this year are to ranked NAIA II programs, D3 or D2 programs.
They can play.
They can play.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 05, 2010, 04:53:30 PM
Post by: oldchap on February 05, 2010, 04:53:30 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2010, 11:51:13 AM
They shouldn't, but OB has a bug up his you-know-where about it and has taken this issue to the ax-grinding level.
This is an official warning to OB -- enough. Move on.
Geez! These forums can be strict... OxyBob and I were just getting warmed up... :D :D :D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on February 05, 2010, 04:56:37 PM
Post by: sac on February 05, 2010, 04:56:37 PM
Forgot to add about NCCAA............NCCAA I is mostly the schools who have dual membership in either NAIA or NCAA (far more NAIA).........NCCAAII is almost entirely Bible colleges.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 05, 2010, 07:07:26 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 05, 2010, 07:07:26 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on February 05, 2010, 09:04:03 AMQuote from: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:03:45 PM
While it's technically accurate to refer to Southwestern (AZ) as an NCCAA school, it's more accurate to refer to it as an NAIA-2 school.
The Massey Ratings list Southwestern as an NCCAA-II school. That's where I got it. I'm sure that Ken Massey would be very interested in your abstruse, hairsplitting analysis. You can forward it to him at kmassey@masseyratings.com.
It's got nothing to do with my analysis and everything to do with your endless and tiresome crusade to run down Chapman at every opportunity. I don't care enough to e-mail Ken Massey about it, but he's clearly wrong about Southwestern's affiliation; the Eagles should be listed as an NAIA-2 team, because they have declared for the NAIA-2 postseason tourney.
Quote from: AO on February 05, 2010, 10:20:32 AM
Having played in an NCCAA national tournament (d-1), maybe I can shed some light on the issue. Though I know rather little about nccaa d-2 I believe there aren't any NAIA schools in d-2. NCCAA d-1 teams are probably 2/3rds naia -2, with the rest being ncaa-2 and naia-1, with a couple d3 squads thrown in there (Northwestern, Greenville and Geneva). Gardner-Webb of NCAA divison 1 played in the NCCAA up until maybe 5 years ago. Non-scholarship nccaa teams can pick between the two divisions (Crown, North Central and some pennsylannia teams from d-3 play in nccaa-2).
The Southwestern that Chapman played is playing in its first year in NAIA-2 and NCCAA-1, and they are definitely struggling, they're 44th out of 46 in the nccaa standings (http://www.thenccaa.org/mensbasketstat.htm). Interestingly enough, if Chapman had scheduled the southwestern (Oklahoma) that plays in nccaa d-2, they might have got a better game as that squad soundly beat ncaa-2 East Central University. Or if they scheduled Grace Bible College in Grand Rapids which beat Calvin earlier in the year (when I first looked at that score I assumed it was Grace out of Indiana which plays naia and nccaa-1, but no it was calvin's cross town rival out of the nccaa2)
The NCCAA d-1 tournament does feel like a consolation tournament for many of the teams as they were hoping for naia or ncaa2 berths. When I played at Northwestern we were a little more excited to be playing as this was the only post-season we were eligible for (this is the first year Northwestern can play in the ncaa playoffs-aq next year). The d-1 tournament is a step up compared to the schedule that some naia schools play as it is the best of the schools that don't make it to the naia tournament. You can't really say that the NAIA overall is a step up from the NCCAA as the NCCAA is made up of the NAIA. For schools like mine who play in ncaa-3 and nccaa-1, the nccaa tournament is more challenging than regular season d-3 play, and most years the champion from the nccaa would beat the d-3 champion. The NCCAA d-2 tournament is the highest goal for a majority of the squads that play in that division (though not the toughest games for schools like Grace of Grand Rapids who are scheduling anybody during the regular season).
So to sum up, just because you play against a school that plays in the NCCAA doesn't mean it's going to be a cakewalk. Chapman doesn't have many options here and shouldn't be criticized for scheduling Southwestern.
Thanks for the firsthand 411 and for bringing up examples such as Grace Bible and Gardner-Webb that illustrate that an NCCAA team can be a legit opponent if it faces a D3 team. I would not agree with your comment that I bolded, though, since the fact that Southwestern declared for the NAIA-2 tourney pretty clearly illlustrates where its priorities lie in terms of seeking postseason competition.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on February 05, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
Post by: dahlby on February 05, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
Southwestern College's web site lists them as NAIA and NCCAA. They continue to play in the PCAC, which is made up of NCCAA schools. The NAIA web site lists them as NAIA Division 2 as an independent. Southwestern's web site is swcaz.edu .
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on February 05, 2010, 07:39:38 PM
Post by: OxyBob on February 05, 2010, 07:39:38 PM
Quote from: oldchap on February 05, 2010, 04:53:30 PMQuote from: Pat Coleman on February 05, 2010, 11:51:13 AMGeez! These forums can be strict... OxyBob and I were just getting warmed up...
They shouldn't, but OB has a bug up his you-know-where about it and has taken this issue to the ax-grinding level.
This is an official warning to OB -- enough. Move on.
Message received. PC's the boss.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on February 05, 2010, 07:48:36 PM
Post by: AO on February 05, 2010, 07:48:36 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 05, 2010, 07:07:26 PMThe NCCAA/NAIA doesn't require that you commit solely to its post-season. All the d-1 schools essentially declare for the both tournaments with the understanding that they will play in the ncaa or naia tournament if they make it. While NCCAA 2 can be thought of as its own division and ranked accordingly, it might make more sense to rank NCCAA 1 as a nationwide conference across multiple divisions. The NCCAA 1 exists almost solely to put on the tournament, they don't really worry about the differences in regulation between ncaa3 and naia1, just get em on the court.Quote from: OxyBob on February 05, 2010, 09:04:03 AMQuote from: Gregory Sager on February 04, 2010, 10:03:45 PM
While it's technically accurate to refer to Southwestern (AZ) as an NCCAA school, it's more accurate to refer to it as an NAIA-2 school.
The Massey Ratings list Southwestern as an NCCAA-II school. That's where I got it. I'm sure that Ken Massey would be very interested in your abstruse, hairsplitting analysis. You can forward it to him at kmassey@masseyratings.com.
It's got nothing to do with my analysis and everything to do with your endless and tiresome crusade to run down Chapman at every opportunity. I don't care enough to e-mail Ken Massey about it, but he's clearly wrong about Southwestern's affiliation; the Eagles should be listed as an NAIA-2 team, because they have declared for the NAIA-2 postseason tourney.Quote from: AO on February 05, 2010, 10:20:32 AM
Having played in an NCCAA national tournament (d-1), maybe I can shed some light on the issue. Though I know rather little about nccaa d-2 I believe there aren't any NAIA schools in d-2. NCCAA d-1 teams are probably 2/3rds naia -2, with the rest being ncaa-2 and naia-1, with a couple d3 squads thrown in there (Northwestern, Greenville and Geneva). Gardner-Webb of NCAA divison 1 played in the NCCAA up until maybe 5 years ago. Non-scholarship nccaa teams can pick between the two divisions (Crown, North Central and some pennsylannia teams from d-3 play in nccaa-2).
The Southwestern that Chapman played is playing in its first year in NAIA-2 and NCCAA-1, and they are definitely struggling, they're 44th out of 46 in the nccaa standings (http://www.thenccaa.org/mensbasketstat.htm). Interestingly enough, if Chapman had scheduled the southwestern (Oklahoma) that plays in nccaa d-2, they might have got a better game as that squad soundly beat ncaa-2 East Central University. Or if they scheduled Grace Bible College in Grand Rapids which beat Calvin earlier in the year (when I first looked at that score I assumed it was Grace out of Indiana which plays naia and nccaa-1, but no it was calvin's cross town rival out of the nccaa2)
The NCCAA d-1 tournament does feel like a consolation tournament for many of the teams as they were hoping for naia or ncaa2 berths. When I played at Northwestern we were a little more excited to be playing as this was the only post-season we were eligible for (this is the first year Northwestern can play in the ncaa playoffs-aq next year). The d-1 tournament is a step up compared to the schedule that some naia schools play as it is the best of the schools that don't make it to the naia tournament. You can't really say that the NAIA overall is a step up from the NCCAA as the NCCAA is made up of the NAIA. For schools like mine who play in ncaa-3 and nccaa-1, the nccaa tournament is more challenging than regular season d-3 play, and most years the champion from the nccaa would beat the d-3 champion. The NCCAA d-2 tournament is the highest goal for a majority of the squads that play in that division (though not the toughest games for schools like Grace of Grand Rapids who are scheduling anybody during the regular season).
So to sum up, just because you play against a school that plays in the NCCAA doesn't mean it's going to be a cakewalk. Chapman doesn't have many options here and shouldn't be criticized for scheduling Southwestern.
Thanks for the firsthand 411 and for bringing up examples such as Grace Bible and Gardner-Webb that illustrate that an NCCAA team can be a legit opponent if it faces a D3 team. I would not agree with your comment that I bolded, though, since the fact that Southwestern declared for the NAIA-2 tourney pretty clearly illlustrates where its priorities lie in terms of seeking postseason competition.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 06, 2010, 01:22:28 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 06, 2010, 01:22:28 AM
Quote from: dahlby on February 05, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
Southwestern College's web site lists them as NAIA and NCCAA.
Yes, as I said yesterday Southwestern is a dual affiliate.
Quote from: dahlby on February 05, 2010, 07:22:52 PMThey continue to play in the PCAC, which is made up of NCCAA schools. The NAIA web site lists them as NAIA Division 2 as an independent.
Southwestern is actually a member of an NAIA-2 quasi-league called the Association of Independent Institutions. If you'll take a look at the bottom of the Southwestern schedule (http://www.swcaz.edu/Athletics/MensBasketball/ScheduleResults/tabid/368/Default.aspx) you'll see "AII PLAYOFFS" scheduled for February 25-26. The AII consists of twelve schools spread across the country (http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf) that hold a tournament to qualify for an automatic bid into the NAIA-2 national tourney, just like a normal NAIA-2 league. That's in addition to Southwestern's PCAC membership, which does not play a factor in Southwestern's postseason plans.
Quote from: AO on February 05, 2010, 07:48:36 PMThe NCCAA/NAIA doesn't require that you commit solely to its post-season.
Not true. The NAIA does require that you commit solely to its postseason tournament, as can be seen from this 2008 amendment to the NAIA bylaws. (http://naiablogs.typepad.com/eligibility/2008/04/bylaws-amendmen.html)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: AO on February 06, 2010, 12:06:12 PM
Post by: AO on February 06, 2010, 12:06:12 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 06, 2010, 01:22:28 AMI think you should read the amendment again. There is nothing about a "sole" commitment. NCCAA schools commit to both post-season's but the NCCAA commitment is understood that if the team makes the ncaa or naia post-season, they will not and cannot participate in the nccaa tournament.Quote from: AO on February 05, 2010, 07:48:36 PMThe NCCAA/NAIA doesn't require that you commit solely to its post-season.
Not true. The NAIA does require that you commit solely to its postseason tournament, as can be seen from this 2008 amendment to the NAIA bylaws. (http://naiablogs.typepad.com/eligibility/2008/04/bylaws-amendmen.html)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on February 06, 2010, 12:28:03 PM
Post by: David Collinge on February 06, 2010, 12:28:03 PM
It's times like these that I long for another appearance of Miss Shortskirt (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5572.msg1152674#msg1152674).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 06, 2010, 09:26:51 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 06, 2010, 09:26:51 PM
Quote from: AO on February 06, 2010, 12:06:12 PMQuote from: Gregory Sager on February 06, 2010, 01:22:28 AMI think you should read the amendment again. There is nothing about a "sole" commitment. NCCAA schools commit to both post-season's but the NCCAA commitment is understood that if the team makes the ncaa or naia post-season, they will not and cannot participate in the nccaa tournament.Quote from: AO on February 05, 2010, 07:48:36 PMThe NCCAA/NAIA doesn't require that you commit solely to its post-season.
Not true. The NAIA does require that you commit solely to its postseason tournament, as can be seen from this 2008 amendment to the NAIA bylaws. (http://naiablogs.typepad.com/eligibility/2008/04/bylaws-amendmen.html)
Good catch. The purpose of the amendment was to make the NAIA the mandatory first choice of any member school with regard to postseason play.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2010, 12:34:37 PM
Post by: nwhoops1903 on February 07, 2010, 12:34:37 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 06, 2010, 12:28:03 PMHILARIOUS!
It's times like these that I long for another appearance of Miss Shortskirt (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5572.msg1152674#msg1152674).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2010, 04:47:32 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2010, 04:47:32 PM
New regional rankings:
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2010/02/10/2010-regional-rankings-week-2/
http://d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2010/02/10/2010-regional-rankings-week-2/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on February 22, 2010, 11:54:37 AM
Post by: hopefan on February 22, 2010, 11:54:37 AM
so.... are Chapman and Maryville Pool B locks? Is anyone else able to be considered?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 22, 2010, 12:10:13 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 22, 2010, 12:10:13 PM
Quote from: hopefan on February 22, 2010, 11:54:37 AM
so.... are Chapman and Maryville Pool B locks? Is anyone else able to be considered?
I think it's pretty safe to say that they're the two.
Champman's done, and they're ranked in the west... they'll be in.
Maryville has the GSAC tournamnet, but even a (unlikely) loss in the semis shouldn't keep them out.
Elms and Northwestern (Minn.) are probably the next two, but they seem to be well back from Chapman and Maryville.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on February 22, 2010, 12:13:45 PM
Post by: Just Bill on February 22, 2010, 12:13:45 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on February 06, 2010, 12:28:03 PM
It's times like these that I long for another appearance of Miss Shortskirt (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5572.msg1152674#msg1152674).
Gosh, I miss her.
Oh, to be young and have flexible scruples again. (Rather than old and have flexible scruples as I am now)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2010, 12:00:05 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2010, 12:00:05 AM
Pool B 2010:
at Chapman 58, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 47
at Whitworth 77, Chapman 56
John Carroll 88, Maryville TN 67 (at Guilford)
at Chapman 58, Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 47
at Whitworth 77, Chapman 56
John Carroll 88, Maryville TN 67 (at Guilford)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on March 08, 2010, 10:32:29 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on March 08, 2010, 10:32:29 AM
The B's performance underscores the dilemma of scheduling for teams not in AQ conferences. If you schedule quite a few really good teams during the season, you run the risk of losing while you learn what it takes to compete with JCU or Guilford, but having played and lost a few, you cannot get a Bumblin' B's bid. And many of the better conferences require so many in-conference games that teams do not want/cannot find time to play Maryville.
Playing D2 or good NAIA teams does not help with the NCAA D3 selection process even though it can be a learning experience. Maryville played Guilford and got waxed and beat several other teams that were pretty good and played in good conferences (Centre, Transylvania, Wabash), but it still is a challenge!
Congratulations to Chapman for winning one. JCU was a tough slot for the Scots!
Playing D2 or good NAIA teams does not help with the NCAA D3 selection process even though it can be a learning experience. Maryville played Guilford and got waxed and beat several other teams that were pretty good and played in good conferences (Centre, Transylvania, Wabash), but it still is a challenge!
Congratulations to Chapman for winning one. JCU was a tough slot for the Scots!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2010, 12:55:08 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 08, 2010, 12:55:08 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on March 08, 2010, 10:32:29 AM
The B's performance underscores the dilemma of scheduling for teams not in AQ conferences. If you schedule quite a few really good teams during the season, you run the risk of losing while you learn what it takes to compete with JCU or Guilford, but having played and lost a few, you cannot get a Bumblin' B's bid.
I don't think that's proven true in the past. Pool B is shrinking dramatically every year, so perhaps it will be a little more competitive between the top teams. However, we have seen in the past that a Pool B squad with a lesser record, but a strong SOS get the nod for tournament play.
Your comment may be more true for Chapman, who simply lacks available opponents and thus almost always has a lower SOS and must win most of their games. But for a team like Maryville, they have the luxury of scheduling stronger opponents. Obviously they still have to win some of those games, but they can also afford to lose a few. Even a loss to Guilford helps their SOS number.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2010, 02:38:49 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2010, 02:38:49 PM
I recommend that Chapman and Maryville meet some place like UDallas and play on a neutral floor.
Then you could pick up another in-region game (UDallas) for both teams (South Region for Maryville and Admin Region #4 for Chapman).
Then you could pick up another in-region game (UDallas) for both teams (South Region for Maryville and Admin Region #4 for Chapman).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2010, 04:24:58 PM
Post by: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2010, 04:24:58 PM
All I am gonna say about Chapman is they were no slouch. Good players, prepared and determined. They hung with Whitworth as well as anyone did this year in Spokane.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 10:49:15 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 10:49:15 PM
Pool B gets an infusion of new teams.
Nine TCCC members plan new DIII conference (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2010/division+iii/nine+tccc+members+plan+new+diii+conference_04_08_10_ncaa_news)
The remaining five TCCC teams (Anna Maria, Colby-Sawyer, Eastern Nazarene, New England College and Regis MA) have a core of teams that can add affiliates to maintain the TCCC AQ thru the 2012-13 season.
Nine TCCC members plan new DIII conference (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2010/division+iii/nine+tccc+members+plan+new+diii+conference_04_08_10_ncaa_news)
Quote...
The nine institutions "share a focus on student-athlete success and commitment to standards for competitive play," according to the announcement Wednesday by Dorothy J. Millhofer, director of communications at Nichols.
The other schools involved in the new conference will be Curry, Endicott, Gordon, Roger Williams, Salve Regina, University of New England, Wentworth Institute of Technology and Western New England. ...
The remaining five TCCC teams (Anna Maria, Colby-Sawyer, Eastern Nazarene, New England College and Regis MA) have a core of teams that can add affiliates to maintain the TCCC AQ thru the 2012-13 season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on April 09, 2010, 10:59:39 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on April 09, 2010, 10:59:39 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 10:49:15 PM
Pool B gets an infusion of new teams.
Nine TCCC members plan new DIII conference (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2010/division+iii/nine+tccc+members+plan+new+diii+conference_04_08_10_ncaa_news)Quote...
The nine institutions "share a focus on student-athlete success and commitment to standards for competitive play," according to the announcement Wednesday by Dorothy J. Millhofer, director of communications at Nichols.
The other schools involved in the new conference will be Curry, Endicott, Gordon, Roger Williams, Salve Regina, University of New England, Wentworth Institute of Technology and Western New England. ...
The remaining five TCCC teams (Anna Maria, Colby-Sawyer, Eastern Nazarene, New England College and Regis MA) have a core of teams that can add affiliates to maintain the TCCC AQ thru the 2012-13 season.
That would begin in two seasons however. Is this going to hurt Pool C in the 2011-12 season? The 5 team CCC has a 2 year grace period to get up to 7 teams, so they will still have a Pool A bid, and the 9 teams leaving will add at least one Pool B slot, right?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 11:05:33 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 11:05:33 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on April 09, 2010, 10:59:39 PMYes the TCCC will keep its Pool A bid thru 2012-13. We may see some shuffling in New England with this move.Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 10:49:15 PM
Pool B gets an infusion of new teams.
Nine TCCC members plan new DIII conference (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2010/division+iii/nine+tccc+members+plan+new+diii+conference_04_08_10_ncaa_news)Quote...
The nine institutions "share a focus on student-athlete success and commitment to standards for competitive play," according to the announcement Wednesday by Dorothy J. Millhofer, director of communications at Nichols.
The other schools involved in the new conference will be Curry, Endicott, Gordon, Roger Williams, Salve Regina, University of New England, Wentworth Institute of Technology and Western New England. ...
The remaining five TCCC teams (Anna Maria, Colby-Sawyer, Eastern Nazarene, New England College and Regis MA) have a core of teams that can add affiliates to maintain the TCCC AQ thru the 2012-13 season.
That would begin in two seasons however. Is this going to hurt Pool C in the 2011-12 season? The 5 team CCC has a 2 year grace period to get up to 7 teams, so they will still have a Pool C bid, and the 9 teams leaving will add at least one Pool B slot, right?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 11:08:26 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 11:08:26 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2010, 08:08:58 PMFront page. I went to the NCAA News site before I saw the D3Hoops.com Notables.
The CCC is breaking up: D3hoops.com: Notables (http://www.d3hoops.com/newsitems.php?item=3049)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 10, 2010, 10:37:03 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on April 10, 2010, 10:37:03 AM
I'd like to hear from Hoops Fan on this. From what I understand, Gordon and Eastern Nazarene are archrivals. This move would break them up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2010, 08:41:21 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on April 12, 2010, 08:41:21 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on April 10, 2010, 10:37:03 AM
I'd like to hear from Hoops Fan on this. From what I understand, Gordon and Eastern Nazarene are archrivals. This move would break them up.
Gordon and ENC are historic rivals as the only protestant schools in New England. Over the past decade or so Gordon has worked hard to raise the level of play in their athletic programs and to really expand their institution as a whole. Simultaneously ENC has gone through a really rough patch, with some very middling, if not poor, teams fielded - not to mention institutional difficulties. At this point it's a rivalry for ENC much more than it is for Gordon. Gordon has the luxury of a geographic rival in Endicott - the two campuses are just a mile or two apart. Maintaining that rivalry is much more important for Gordon.
This move makes sense. My only question is why Colby-Sawyer was not included in the move. We may see some movement from them in the near future.
Those nine may be looking to create a conference conducive to competitive play in football, hockey, and/or lacrosse. Most of the nine have two of the three.
They have 18 months to get everything settled - I still think we'll see a lot of movement in New England.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 06, 2010, 09:49:03 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 06, 2010, 09:49:03 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 11:08:26 PMTCCC breakup (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2010/07/06/two-more-leave-as-tccc-breakup-continues.html).Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2010, 08:08:58 PMFront page. I went to the NCAA News site before I saw the D3Hoops.com Notables.
The CCC is breaking up: D3hoops.com: Notables (http://www.d3hoops.com/newsitems.php?item=3049)
With the departure of Colby-Sawyer and New England College to the NAC and Anna Marie to the GNAC, my guess is that the TCCC will not have a Pool A bid in 2011-12.
Where will Regis and Eastern Nazarene land?
Actually this may mean an additional Pool C bid in 2011-12 that would have gone to a 5-member TCCC, as the TCCC tried to get back the minimum 7 teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on July 06, 2010, 10:32:45 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on July 06, 2010, 10:32:45 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on July 06, 2010, 09:49:03 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on April 09, 2010, 11:08:26 PMTCCC breakup (http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2010/07/06/two-more-leave-as-tccc-breakup-continues.html).Quote from: Pat Coleman on April 07, 2010, 08:08:58 PMFront page. I went to the NCAA News site before I saw the D3Hoops.com Notables.
The CCC is breaking up: D3hoops.com: Notables (http://www.d3hoops.com/newsitems.php?item=3049)
With the departure of Colby-Sawyer and New England College to the NAC and Anna Marie to the GNAC, my guess is that the TCCC will not have a Pool A bid in 2011-12.
Where will Regis and Eastern Nazarene land?
Actually this may mean an additional Pool C bid in 2011-12 that would have gone to a 5-member TCCC, as the TCCC tried to get back the minimum 7 teams.
Dont they get a grace period to get up to 7 teams?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 07, 2010, 12:06:15 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 07, 2010, 12:06:15 AM
Don't they need four teams to be a conference?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 07, 2010, 11:11:51 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 07, 2010, 11:11:51 AM
Excuse my slowness, but I want to get things straight in my mind.
- Nine schools will leave (T)CCC, beginning in '11-'12, to form a new conference. These schools will be lumped into Pool B until the conference gets the AQ. (How long is the provisional waiting period?) Basically, we'll gain a Pool B until this league becomes AQ eligible, at which point we'll lose the B and gain an A (not strictly speaking, but more or less).
- Three more schools leave (T)CCC to join existing leagues starting in '11-'12.
- Only two remain in (T)CCC, which is in jeopardy of losing it's Pool A grace period if it can't add at least two more members before the '11-'12 season. Either the remaining two jump ship to Pool A leagues, they add at least two more to maintain Pool A status (maintaining the two-year grace period), or they stay as-is and become Pool B eligible.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 07, 2010, 03:47:51 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on July 07, 2010, 03:47:51 PM
And the whole mess happened because the nine schools didn't want to do the dirty work of kicking the struggling schools out of the conference.
Apparently they're willing to compete in Pool B for a couple seasons rather than fight to retain the AQ.
I'm sure there's some Bylaw provision that makes it difficult to kick teams out - it just bugs me and my school is one of the one's who should have been kicked out!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 07, 2010, 07:48:53 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on July 07, 2010, 07:48:53 PM
There is a two-year waiting period before a conference becomes eligible for an automatic bid. So the ... let's call it NNEAC (New New England Athletic Conference) ... would be in Pool B for the 2012 and 2013 tournaments.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 07, 2010, 08:44:38 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 07, 2010, 08:44:38 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on July 07, 2010, 07:48:53 PMThe Pool B access ratio for Men's basketball in 2009-10 was 1:9.275. Basically, the Pool A bid that was the CCC is now another bid in Pool B for the tourneys in 2012 and 2013.
There is a two-year waiting period before a conference becomes eligible for an automatic bid. So the ... let's call it NNEAC (New New England Athletic Conference) ... would be in Pool B for the 2012 and 2013 tournaments.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2010, 09:50:27 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 17, 2010, 09:50:27 PM
Projected members of Pool B for 2010-11. (The Handbook has not been released.)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2009, 05:36:09 PMThere may be as few as 9 and as many as 11 in Pool B. That suggests 1 Pool B bid.
Pool B's in 2010-11 (if the UMAC and the NECC earn Pool A status):
Atlantic -- (0)
East -- (0)
Great Lakes -- (0)
Mid-Atlantic -- (1) Lancaster Bible
Midwest -- (0)
Northeast Region -- (1*) UMPI (Dual member in NAIA)
South -- (5) GSAC-4, Rust
West -- (4*) Chapman, Finlandia, Neb Wesleyan* (Dual member in NAIA), North Central MN
Lancaster Bible and North Central MN should become full members in 2010.
We could have as many as 11 Pool B teams in 2010. Five schools become new members in 2010-11, so we might get a 62nd bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on November 18, 2010, 10:52:54 AM
Post by: bballlover on November 18, 2010, 10:52:54 AM
Would it be safe to say then that this will come down to Chapman or Maryville?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on November 18, 2010, 12:13:15 PM
Post by: David Collinge on November 18, 2010, 12:13:15 PM
Don't sleep on Rust who have 6'6 Larry Veasley and 6'4 Markeith Wilson, or so I have heard!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ziggy on November 18, 2010, 12:50:20 PM
Post by: ziggy on November 18, 2010, 12:50:20 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on November 18, 2010, 12:13:15 PM
Don't sleep on Rust who have 6'6 Larry Veasley and 6'4 Markeith Wilson, or so I have heard!
I'm sorry, Mr. Wilson's first name makes me want to retype your sentence as follows:
Don't thleep on Rutht who have thick-thick Larry Veathley and thick-four Marketih Wilthon, or tho I have heard!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on November 18, 2010, 02:40:01 PM
Post by: bballlover on November 18, 2010, 02:40:01 PM
I would be the first to agree that Rust will have a good team this year.I have seen these guys play.From what I can remember though the schedule is mighty tough.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on November 18, 2010, 05:19:43 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on November 18, 2010, 05:19:43 PM
Maybe that is why Rust is not playing Maryville this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on November 18, 2010, 09:53:47 PM
Post by: sac on November 18, 2010, 09:53:47 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.everydaynodaysoff.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F12%2FHomerFacePalm.jpg&hash=4714a803cfc9857786f34e5357f938589548dfce)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on November 19, 2010, 02:40:44 AM
Post by: David Collinge on November 19, 2010, 02:40:44 AM
I was trying to induce the one where Homer aims the pistol, but this one's better. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 19, 2010, 12:22:05 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on November 19, 2010, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on November 19, 2010, 02:40:44 AM
I was trying to induce the one where Homer aims the pistol, but this one's better. :)
I agree. Actually, the first thing that went through my head when I read scottiedoug's post was, "D'oh!"
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on November 19, 2010, 12:33:36 PM
Post by: David Collinge on November 19, 2010, 12:33:36 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on November 18, 2010, 12:13:15 PM
Don't sleep on Rust who have 6'6 Larry "Neil Young" Veasley and 6'4 Markeith "Crazy Horse" Wilson, or so I have heard!
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_D7MMbV6CINI%2FSDIM5tqJLzI%2FAAAAAAAAA4w%2FWo1C9PIf1Wc%2Fs320%2FNei_Young_%2526_Crazy_Horse_Rust_Never_Sleeps_Front.jpg&hash=26c05146c3f29a275490bd04449297e988d3ac90)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on November 30, 2010, 11:05:38 AM
Post by: bballlover on November 30, 2010, 11:05:38 AM
Rust lost this past weekend to Mount Union & Rhodes. Mr. Veasley was not on the roster.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 01, 2010, 09:44:23 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 01, 2010, 09:44:23 AM
Knightslappy found the handbook and has posted the link. He gives an excellent analysis of the inaccuracies/inconsistencies in the first version.
The NECC has been given Pool A status, but its 8 teams have not been withdrawn from the Pool B designation.
Here are the Pool 13 B teams that I find.
Lancaster Bible
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA this season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont)
Rust
UDallas (going to the SCAC in 2011-12)
Nebraska Wesleyan
Finlandia
Chapman
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 01, 2010, 08:44:26 AM
The handbook is out: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf
61 bids. 42 Pool A's, 2 Pool B's, and only 17 Pool C's :(
Looks like no Pool A status for the NECC?... Nope... The handbook looks wrong. Lists NECC as an AQ conference, but also lists all the teams as Pool B. Looks like maybe it should actually be 18 C's and 1 B?
Here's the OWP/OOWP adjustment:
Home/Away Multiplier. A multiplier of 1.4 shall be added to the OWP for those
games played away from home. In addition, the same multiplier (1.4) shall be included
for those games played on the road for the OOWP. A multiplier of 1/0 (no positive
or negative effect) will be included in the OWP and OOWP for all neutral games. A
multiplier of 0.6 shall be included in the OWP and OOWP for all home games.
The NECC has been given Pool A status, but its 8 teams have not been withdrawn from the Pool B designation.
Here are the Pool 13 B teams that I find.
Lancaster Bible
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA this season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont)
Rust
UDallas (going to the SCAC in 2011-12)
Nebraska Wesleyan
Finlandia
Chapman
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on December 01, 2010, 07:15:18 PM
Post by: RustCollege on December 01, 2010, 07:15:18 PM
Quote from: bballlover on November 30, 2010, 11:05:38 AMyea u right he didnt play but he played his 1st full game against Hendrix 10pts on 4-7 shooting with 6 rebs in 17mins so his is back from his foot problem
Rust lost this past weekend to Mount Union & Rhodes. Mr. Veasley was not on the roster.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 01, 2010, 08:25:44 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 01, 2010, 08:25:44 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 01, 2010, 09:44:23 AM
Knightslappy found the handbook and has posted the link. He gives an excellent analysis of the inaccuracies/inconsistencies in the first version.Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 01, 2010, 08:44:26 AM
The handbook is out: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf
61 bids. 42 Pool A's, 2 Pool B's, and only 17 Pool C's :(
Looks like no Pool A status for the NECC?... Nope... The handbook looks wrong. Lists NECC as an AQ conference, but also lists all the teams as Pool B. Looks like maybe it should actually be 18 C's and 1 B?
Here's the OWP/OOWP adjustment:
Home/Away Multiplier. A multiplier of 1.4 shall be added to the OWP for those
games played away from home. In addition, the same multiplier (1.4) shall be included
for those games played on the road for the OOWP. A multiplier of 1/0 (no positive
or negative effect) will be included in the OWP and OOWP for all neutral games. A
multiplier of 0.6 shall be included in the OWP and OOWP for all home games.
The NECC has been given Pool A status, but its 8 teams have not been withdrawn from the Pool B designation.
Here are the Pool 13 B teams that I find.
Lancaster Bible
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA this season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont)
Rust
UDallas (going to the SCAC in 2011-12)
Nebraska Wesleyan
Finlandia
Chapman
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
It also doesn't list Birmingham-Southern as reclassifying, but unless I'm mistaken, they're in year four of that process, so they shouldn't be eligible this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: magicman on December 02, 2010, 01:30:04 AM
Post by: magicman on December 02, 2010, 01:30:04 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 01, 2010, 09:44:23 AM
Knightslappy found the handbook and has posted the link. He gives an excellent analysis of the inaccuracies/inconsistencies in the first version.Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 01, 2010, 08:44:26 AM
The handbook is out: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf
61 bids. 42 Pool A's, 2 Pool B's, and only 17 Pool C's :(
Looks like no Pool A status for the NECC?... Nope... The handbook looks wrong. Lists NECC as an AQ conference, but also lists all the teams as Pool B. Looks like maybe it should actually be 18 C's and 1 B?
Here's the OWP/OOWP adjustment:
Home/Away Multiplier. A multiplier of 1.4 shall be added to the OWP for those
games played away from home. In addition, the same multiplier (1.4) shall be included
for those games played on the road for the OOWP. A multiplier of 1/0 (no positive
or negative effect) will be included in the OWP and OOWP for all neutral games. A
multiplier of 0.6 shall be included in the OWP and OOWP for all home games.
The NECC has been given Pool A status, but its 8 teams have not been withdrawn from the Pool B designation.
Here are the Pool 13 B teams that I find.
Lancaster Bible
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA this season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont)
Rust
UDallas (going to the SCAC in 2011-12)
Nebraska Wesleyan
Finlandia
Chapman
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
Ralph,
So basically what you're saying is once again you'll have to straighten out the NCAA numbers, regarding the correct number of Pool A, B, and C bids. How many years in a row now, has this happened? I'm pretty sure last year I heard a big, YES!!!, from you when they admitted an error and also the year before. I know I made a comment that the best thing for them to do would be to check with you first, as you could probably save them time and effort. ;D And now you have an ally in KnightSlappy.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on December 02, 2010, 02:56:22 AM
Post by: CrashDavisD3 on December 02, 2010, 02:56:22 AM
Quote from: magicman on December 02, 2010, 01:30:04 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on December 01, 2010, 09:44:23 AM
Knightslappy found the handbook and has posted the link. He gives an excellent analysis of the inaccuracies/inconsistencies in the first version.Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 01, 2010, 08:44:26 AM
The handbook is out: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf
61 bids. 42 Pool A's, 2 Pool B's, and only 17 Pool C's :(
Looks like no Pool A status for the NECC?... Nope... The handbook looks wrong. Lists NECC as an AQ conference, but also lists all the teams as Pool B. Looks like maybe it should actually be 18 C's and 1 B?
Here's the OWP/OOWP adjustment:
Home/Away Multiplier. A multiplier of 1.4 shall be added to the OWP for those
games played away from home. In addition, the same multiplier (1.4) shall be included
for those games played on the road for the OOWP. A multiplier of 1/0 (no positive
or negative effect) will be included in the OWP and OOWP for all neutral games. A
multiplier of 0.6 shall be included in the OWP and OOWP for all home games.
The NECC has been given Pool A status, but its 8 teams have not been withdrawn from the Pool B designation.
Here are the Pool 13 B teams that I find.
Lancaster Bible
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA this season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont)
Rust
UDallas (going to the SCAC in 2011-12)
Nebraska Wesleyan
Finlandia
Chapman
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
Ralph,
So basically what you're saying is once again you'll have to straighten out the NCAA numbers, regarding the correct number of Pool A, B, and C bids. How many years in a row now, has this happened? I'm pretty sure last year I heard a big, YES!!!, from you when they admitted an error and also the year before. I know I made a comment that the best thing for them to do would be to check with you first, as you could probably save them time and effort. ;D And now you have an ally in KnightSlappy.
I vote putting Ralph in charge of the NCAA...The NCAA every year makes very blatant errors in their publications only to be pointed out by others in more than 1 sport. Not sure why there are so many NCAA officials pulling down 6 figure salaries in Indianapolis, Indiana and with the billions in revenues they have they should be able to do some simple math and also publish accurate documents... ??? Does anyone at the NCAA actually review their stuff before it gets published.
+K to Ralph again...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 05, 2010, 08:21:02 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 05, 2010, 08:21:02 AM
Thanks for the kind words.
The 12/02/2010 version (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf) of the Men's Handbook has been released.
It seems to be the cleanest version to be released in December that I can remember.
13 Pool B teams give us one Pool B bid.
The 12/02/2010 version (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf) of the Men's Handbook has been released.
It seems to be the cleanest version to be released in December that I can remember.
13 Pool B teams give us one Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on December 11, 2010, 11:24:38 PM
Post by: RustCollege on December 11, 2010, 11:24:38 PM
Markeith Wilson played like an all american today with 31pts an 7 rebs for Rust
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2010, 12:12:29 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 16, 2010, 12:12:29 PM
Maryville has started 4-6 overall, in-region 3-5. The competition for the single Pool B bid is wide open.
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Maryville_(Tenn.)/men/2010-11/index
(Marietta is Administrative Region #3 and counts. Covenant is Provisional Year #2. Games against it do not count in 2010-11. Carson-Newman is D-2.)
Chapman (8-1 overall, 7-0 in the West Region) is making the strongest case.
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Chapman/men/2010-11/index
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Maryville_(Tenn.)/men/2010-11/index
(Marietta is Administrative Region #3 and counts. Covenant is Provisional Year #2. Games against it do not count in 2010-11. Carson-Newman is D-2.)
Chapman (8-1 overall, 7-0 in the West Region) is making the strongest case.
http://www.d3hoops.com/teams/Chapman/men/2010-11/index
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2010, 12:58:01 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2010, 12:58:01 PM
Here's what I have for Pool B teams so far. In region WP and SOS (unadjusted SOS).
Chapman has the #1 in-region RPI in the country right now.
| Team | WP | SOS |
| Chapman | 1.000 | 0.766 |
| Huntingdon | 0.667 | 0.543 |
| Maryville (Tenn.) | 0.375 | 0.578 |
| UC Santa Cruz | 0.444 | 0.476 |
| Rust | 0.625 | 0.408 |
| Nebraska Wesleyan | 0.500 | 0.400 |
| North Central (Minn.) | 0.167 | 0.500 |
| Lancaster Bible | 0.333 | 0.441 |
| Piedmont | 0.333 | 0.432 |
| LaGrange | 0.000 | 0.527 |
| Finlandia | 0.000 | 0.420 |
Chapman has the #1 in-region RPI in the country right now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: augie_superfan on December 16, 2010, 06:50:57 PM
Post by: augie_superfan on December 16, 2010, 06:50:57 PM
KnightSlappy,
I know your rankings system results are only as good as the data input into them so I wanted to give you a heads up on Occidental (4-2 reg. - actually only 0-1) and Whittier. Their D3Hoops schedules have a bunch of games marked as regional that aren't. I'm sure there are plenty of others but I just came across those when exploring Chapman's large SOS.
Hopefully Pat or another person with the power sees this post.
I know your rankings system results are only as good as the data input into them so I wanted to give you a heads up on Occidental (4-2 reg. - actually only 0-1) and Whittier. Their D3Hoops schedules have a bunch of games marked as regional that aren't. I'm sure there are plenty of others but I just came across those when exploring Chapman's large SOS.
Hopefully Pat or another person with the power sees this post.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2010, 08:58:18 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2010, 08:58:18 PM
Quote from: augie_superfan on December 16, 2010, 06:50:57 PM
KnightSlappy,
I know your rankings system results are only as good as the data input into them so I wanted to give you a heads up on Occidental (4-2 reg. - actually only 0-1) and Whittier. Their D3Hoops schedules have a bunch of games marked as regional that aren't. I'm sure there are plenty of others but I just came across those when exploring Chapman's large SOS.
Hopefully Pat or another person with the power sees this post.
Thanks for the heads up. I should have originally included a formula to discount the "regional" games against teams not on my D3 list. I didn't, so I have a bunch of bogus games showing up. I'm adding the (very easy) fix when I see it. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on December 17, 2010, 12:35:30 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on December 17, 2010, 12:35:30 PM
Maryville is having an "interesting" season. Lots of injuries and as a result a very young team. Three projected starters, all returners from last year, are not playing. It is unclear to me if they can figure this out in time, but the four in-region losses are by 20 points total. There is recent precedent at Maryville for an undefeated post-Christmas schedule after a shaky start....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 01:09:00 AM
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 01:09:00 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 16, 2010, 12:58:01 PMwhat are the pool B rankings looking like
Here's what I have for Pool B teams so far. In region WP and SOS (unadjusted SOS).
Team WP SOS Chapman 1.000 0.766 Huntingdon 0.667 0.543 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.375 0.578 UC Santa Cruz 0.444 0.476 Rust 0.625 0.408 Nebraska Wesleyan 0.500 0.400 North Central (Minn.) 0.167 0.500 Lancaster Bible 0.333 0.441 Piedmont 0.333 0.432 LaGrange 0.000 0.527 Finlandia 0.000 0.420
Chapman has the #1 in-region RPI in the country right now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AM
Here's how RPI ranks them:
| Rnk | Team | WP | wSOS |
| 1 | Chapman | 0.909 | 0.569 |
| 2 | Huntingdon | 0.500 | 0.615 |
| 3 | Maryville (Tenn.) | 0.500 | 0.595 |
| 4 | Nebraska Wesleyan | 0.571 | 0.478 |
| 5 | UC Santa Cruz | 0.364 | 0.545 |
| 6 | Rust | 0.667 | 0.440 |
| 7 | North Central (Minn.) | 0.364 | 0.454 |
| 8 | Piedmont | 0.200 | 0.501 |
| 9 | LaGrange | 0.083 | 0.530 |
| 10 | Finlandia | 0.273 | 0.454 |
| 11 | Lancaster Bible | 0.300 | 0.424 |
| 12 | Maine-Presque Isle | 0.000 | 0.509 |
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 12, 2011, 11:30:41 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 12, 2011, 11:30:41 AM
I think the RPI winning percentage record for Maryville in region (.500) is correct (not .375). Their SOS is higher than it often is, which may have something to do with the low WP!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 11:41:54 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 11:41:54 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 12, 2011, 11:30:41 AMSome readers may have not heard that the NCAA is using a different SOS formula that multiplies the home game SOS by 0.6 and the road games by 1.4.
I think the RPI winning percentage record for Maryville in region (.500) is correct (not .375). Their SOS is higher than it often is, which may have something to do with the low WP!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 03:13:14 PM
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 03:13:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AMHow rust is looking as for making the playoffd
Here's how RPI ranks them:
Rnk Team WP wSOS 1 Chapman 0.909 0.569 2 Huntingdon 0.500 0.615 3 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.500 0.595 4 Nebraska Wesleyan 0.571 0.478 5 UC Santa Cruz 0.364 0.545 6 Rust 0.667 0.440 7 North Central (Minn.) 0.364 0.454 8 Piedmont 0.200 0.501 9 LaGrange 0.083 0.530 10 Finlandia 0.273 0.454 11 Lancaster Bible 0.300 0.424 12 Maine-Presque Isle 0.000 0.509
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 03:16:06 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 03:16:06 PM
Quote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 03:13:14 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AMHow rust is looking as for making the playoffd
Here's how RPI ranks them:
Rnk Team WP wSOS 1 Chapman 0.909 0.569 2 Huntingdon 0.500 0.615 3 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.500 0.595 4 Nebraska Wesleyan 0.571 0.478 5 UC Santa Cruz 0.364 0.545 6 Rust 0.667 0.440 7 North Central (Minn.) 0.364 0.454 8 Piedmont 0.200 0.501 9 LaGrange 0.083 0.530 10 Finlandia 0.273 0.454 11 Lancaster Bible 0.300 0.424 12 Maine-Presque Isle 0.000 0.509
Bleak
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 04:50:29 PM
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 04:50:29 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 03:16:06 PMi kno rust my end the season at 19-6 an 14-4 in D3 so why is it BleakQuote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 03:13:14 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AMHow rust is looking as for making the playoffd
Here's how RPI ranks them:
Rnk Team WP wSOS 1 Chapman 0.909 0.569 2 Huntingdon 0.500 0.615 3 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.500 0.595 4 Nebraska Wesleyan 0.571 0.478 5 UC Santa Cruz 0.364 0.545 6 Rust 0.667 0.440 7 North Central (Minn.) 0.364 0.454 8 Piedmont 0.200 0.501 9 LaGrange 0.083 0.530 10 Finlandia 0.273 0.454 11 Lancaster Bible 0.300 0.424 12 Maine-Presque Isle 0.000 0.509
Bleak
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 06:20:15 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 06:20:15 PM
Quote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 04:50:29 PMBecause there is only 1 Pool B bid and Chapman almost has it locked down. Rust is 8-4 in-region.Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 03:16:06 PMi kno rust my end the season at 19-6 an 14-4 in D3 so why is it BleakQuote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 03:13:14 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AMHow rust is looking as for making the playoffd
Here's how RPI ranks them:
Rnk Team WP wSOS 1 Chapman 0.909 0.569 2 Huntingdon 0.500 0.615 3 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.500 0.595 4 Nebraska Wesleyan 0.571 0.478 5 UC Santa Cruz 0.364 0.545 6 Rust 0.667 0.440 7 North Central (Minn.) 0.364 0.454 8 Piedmont 0.200 0.501 9 LaGrange 0.083 0.530 10 Finlandia 0.273 0.454 11 Lancaster Bible 0.300 0.424 12 Maine-Presque Isle 0.000 0.509
Bleak
As I look at the Pool B teams getting a Pool C bid, I don't even think that Maryville is in shape to get one this year. I would expect Rust to need at least 11-2 in-region record to get a bid.
You had a good schedule that could have given you a chance at a Pool B/C bid, I definitely see 2 too many losses. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 07:55:02 PM
Post by: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 07:55:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 06:20:15 PMAw ok berry and Webster is not a d3 winQuote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 04:50:29 PMBecause there is only 1 Pool B bid and Chapman almost has it locked down. Rust is 8-4 in-region.Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 03:16:06 PMi kno rust my end the season at 19-6 an 14-4 in D3 so why is it BleakQuote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 03:13:14 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AMHow rust is looking as for making the playoffd
Here's how RPI ranks them:
Rnk Team WP wSOS 1 Chapman 0.909 0.569 2 Huntingdon 0.500 0.615 3 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.500 0.595 4 Nebraska Wesleyan 0.571 0.478 5 UC Santa Cruz 0.364 0.545 6 Rust 0.667 0.440 7 North Central (Minn.) 0.364 0.454 8 Piedmont 0.200 0.501 9 LaGrange 0.083 0.530 10 Finlandia 0.273 0.454 11 Lancaster Bible 0.300 0.424 12 Maine-Presque Isle 0.000 0.509
Bleak
As I look at the Pool B teams getting a Pool C bid, I don't even think that Maryville is in shape to get one this year. I would expect Rust to need at least 11-2 in-region record to get a bid.
You had a good schedule that could have given you a chance at a Pool B/C bid, I definitely see 2 too many losses. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on January 12, 2011, 08:02:25 PM
Post by: John Gleich on January 12, 2011, 08:02:25 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 06:20:15 PMQuote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 04:50:29 PMBecause there is only 1 Pool B bid and Chapman almost has it locked down. Rust is 8-4 in-region.Quote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 03:16:06 PMi kno rust my end the season at 19-6 an 14-4 in D3 so why is it BleakQuote from: RustCollege on January 12, 2011, 03:13:14 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 07:13:50 AMHow rust is looking as for making the playoffd
Here's how RPI ranks them:
Rnk Team WP wSOS 1 Chapman 0.909 0.569 2 Huntingdon 0.500 0.615 3 Maryville (Tenn.) 0.500 0.595 4 Nebraska Wesleyan 0.571 0.478 5 UC Santa Cruz 0.364 0.545 6 Rust 0.667 0.440 7 North Central (Minn.) 0.364 0.454 8 Piedmont 0.200 0.501 9 LaGrange 0.083 0.530 10 Finlandia 0.273 0.454 11 Lancaster Bible 0.300 0.424 12 Maine-Presque Isle 0.000 0.509
Bleak
As I look at the Pool B teams getting a Pool C bid, I don't even think that Maryville is in shape to get one this year. I would expect Rust to need at least 11-2 in-region record to get a bid.
You had a good schedule that could have given you a chance at a Pool B/C bid, I definitely see 2 too many losses. :)
There's always a chance that a Pool B eligible team (such as Chapman) could get a Pool C bid instead of a Pool B bid, opening up that B bid for another non-Pool A team. B's just haven't been very good, in general, since the pool system took effect and it hasn't happened. The B's who have gotten bids have been lucky to get them via the Pool B route... and it isn't like there have been compelling Pool B teams who didn't get bids.
Chapman is putting together a pretty good year... and this might *possibly* be the year that a B team gets a look at a C... but I think that the next B in line would have to have a compelling C slate for this to happen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on January 12, 2011, 08:13:13 PM
Post by: David Collinge on January 12, 2011, 08:13:13 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on January 12, 2011, 08:02:25 PMUnless I am very much mistaken, the Pool B bid is decided before the Pool C bids are considered. The top Pool B team will get a bid through that pool, and then the second-best Pool B team would be considered as part of Pool C, if their bona fides are sufficient to get them to the table.
There's always a chance that a Pool B eligible team (such as Chapman) could get a Pool C bid instead of a Pool B bid, opening up that B bid for another non-Pool A team. B's just haven't been very good, in general, since the pool system took effect and it hasn't happened. The B's who have gotten bids have been lucky to get them via the Pool B route... and it isn't like there have been compelling Pool B teams who didn't get bids.
Chapman is putting together a pretty good year... and this might *possibly* be the year that a B team gets a look at a C... but I think that the next B in line would have to have a compelling C slate for this to happen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 09:43:28 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 12, 2011, 09:43:28 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 12, 2011, 08:13:13 PMQuote from: PointSpecial on January 12, 2011, 08:02:25 PMUnless I am very much mistaken, the Pool B bid is decided before the Pool C bids are considered. The top Pool B team will get a bid through that pool, and then the second-best Pool B team would be considered as part of Pool C, if their bona fides are sufficient to get them to the table.
There's always a chance that a Pool B eligible team (such as Chapman) could get a Pool C bid instead of a Pool B bid, opening up that B bid for another non-Pool A team. B's just haven't been very good, in general, since the pool system took effect and it hasn't happened. The B's who have gotten bids have been lucky to get them via the Pool B route... and it isn't like there have been compelling Pool B teams who didn't get bids.
Chapman is putting together a pretty good year... and this might *possibly* be the year that a B team gets a look at a C... but I think that the next B in line would have to have a compelling C slate for this to happen.
Correct. The B's (singular this year) get taken out before the C's.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 09:43:50 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 09:43:50 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 12, 2011, 08:13:13 PMQuote from: PointSpecial on January 12, 2011, 08:02:25 PMUnless I am very much mistaken, the Pool B bid is decided before the Pool C bids are considered. The top Pool B team will get a bid through that pool, and then the second-best Pool B team would be considered as part of Pool C, if their bona fides are sufficient to get them to the table.
There's always a chance that a Pool B eligible team (such as Chapman) could get a Pool C bid instead of a Pool B bid, opening up that B bid for another non-Pool A team. B's just haven't been very good, in general, since the pool system took effect and it hasn't happened. The B's who have gotten bids have been lucky to get them via the Pool B route... and it isn't like there have been compelling Pool B teams who didn't get bids.
Chapman is putting together a pretty good year... and this might *possibly* be the year that a B team gets a look at a C... but I think that the next B in line would have to have a compelling C slate for this to happen.
Yes, Pool B teams then go to Pool C (as I know darn well David was well aware of ;D), but if there has EVER been a Pool B with a legitimate chance at Pool C, I can't recall it. There is a reason that this thread is called 'Bumblin' B's'. ::)
If my memory is correct, the thread was named after a (12-13?) U of Dallas team got into the tourney from pool B.
Beat out Chapman for the B or forget it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 10:10:18 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 10:10:18 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on January 12, 2011, 09:43:50 PMActually UDallas went 13-12 in 2004 for their Pool B bid. They bussed 490 miles from Irving TX to Alpine to play Sul Ross State for a first round game. Sul Ross then beat Trinity (which got the bye) in the second round.Quote from: David Collinge on January 12, 2011, 08:13:13 PMQuote from: PointSpecial on January 12, 2011, 08:02:25 PMUnless I am very much mistaken, the Pool B bid is decided before the Pool C bids are considered. The top Pool B team will get a bid through that pool, and then the second-best Pool B team would be considered as part of Pool C, if their bona fides are sufficient to get them to the table.
There's always a chance that a Pool B eligible team (such as Chapman) could get a Pool C bid instead of a Pool B bid, opening up that B bid for another non-Pool A team. B's just haven't been very good, in general, since the pool system took effect and it hasn't happened. The B's who have gotten bids have been lucky to get them via the Pool B route... and it isn't like there have been compelling Pool B teams who didn't get bids.
Chapman is putting together a pretty good year... and this might *possibly* be the year that a B team gets a look at a C... but I think that the next B in line would have to have a compelling C slate for this to happen.
Yes, Pool B teams then go to Pool C (as I know darn well David was well aware of ;D), but if there has EVER been a Pool B with a legitimate chance at Pool C, I can't recall it. There is a reason that this thread is called 'Bumblin' B's'. ::)
If my memory is correct, the thread was named after a (12-13?) U of Dallas team got into the tourney from pool B.
Beat out Chapman for the B or forget it.
I think that the Bumblin' B's goes back to the year that Williams beat Cazenovia, a Pool B bid from the old NEAC, by almost 50 points. I think that was in 2002 or 2003. (The access to the Notables where those stories are "archived" has not been activated under the new D3sports.com format.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on January 14, 2011, 01:11:36 PM
Post by: oldchap on January 14, 2011, 01:11:36 PM
Chapman last year passed the first round by beating CMS (Pool A, winner of the SCIAC) and then went on to loose to Whitworth in the round of 32.
Question (could be an interesting piece of trivia :D) : Which team went the farthest as a Pool B in the playoff? How far did they go? Which year was that?
Thanks.
Question (could be an interesting piece of trivia :D) : Which team went the farthest as a Pool B in the playoff? How far did they go? Which year was that?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on January 14, 2011, 03:16:04 PM
Post by: sac on January 14, 2011, 03:16:04 PM
Maryville would be my guess.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2011, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: sac on January 14, 2011, 03:16:04 PM
Maryville would be my guess.
That's "Mur-ville" on these boards! ;) That name also came immediately to my mind.
Perhaps the year Ben Strong needed every one of about 65 points and 30+ rebounds for Guilford to top Maryville in 2 or 3 OTs (2006?).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2011, 04:11:05 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2011, 04:11:05 PM
Quote from: oldchap on January 14, 2011, 01:11:36 PMBefore the ASC earned its Pool A bid, McMurry went to the Elite 8 as a Pool B in 2000.
Chapman last year passed the first round by beating CMS (Pool A, winner of the SCIAC) and then went on to loose to Whitworth in the round of 32.
Question (could be an interesting piece of trivia :D) : Which team went the farthest as a Pool B in the playoff? How far did they go? Which year was that?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2011, 04:32:51 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2011, 04:32:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2011, 04:11:05 PMQuote from: oldchap on January 14, 2011, 01:11:36 PMBefore the ASC earned its Pool A bid, McMurry went to the Elite 8 as a Pool B in 2000.
Chapman last year passed the first round by beating CMS (Pool A, winner of the SCIAC) and then went on to loose to Whitworth in the round of 32.
Question (could be an interesting piece of trivia :D) : Which team went the farthest as a Pool B in the playoff? How far did they go? Which year was that?
Thanks.
Ralph, is that just our latest best guess, or do they for sure have the record? (And apologies to you for butchering the name of my suggestion - I recall now that it was 'Mur-vul'! ;D I'm pretty sure the game I referenced was sweet 16, so McMurry would beat that one.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on January 14, 2011, 04:51:32 PM
Post by: David Collinge on January 14, 2011, 04:51:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2011, 04:11:05 PMDidn't McMurry beat Maryville in the Sweet 16 that year, at Calvin?Quote from: oldchap on January 14, 2011, 01:11:36 PMBefore the ASC earned its Pool A bid, McMurry went to the Elite 8 as a Pool B in 2000.
Chapman last year passed the first round by beating CMS (Pool A, winner of the SCIAC) and then went on to loose to Whitworth in the round of 32.
Question (could be an interesting piece of trivia :D) : Which team went the farthest as a Pool B in the playoff? How far did they go? Which year was that?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2011, 05:33:05 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2011, 05:33:05 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on January 14, 2011, 04:51:32 PMYes, after Murvul had beaten Hampden-Sydney. We complain about the playoffs and the brackets now that are geographically dense with great teams. The 2000 tourney combined the Great Lakes and South Regions. (Calvin Wooster HSC and McMurry all in the Top 10).Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 14, 2011, 04:11:05 PMDidn't McMurry beat Maryville in the Sweet 16 that year, at Calvin?Quote from: oldchap on January 14, 2011, 01:11:36 PMBefore the ASC earned its Pool A bid, McMurry went to the Elite 8 as a Pool B in 2000.
Chapman last year passed the first round by beating CMS (Pool A, winner of the SCIAC) and then went on to loose to Whitworth in the round of 32.
Question (could be an interesting piece of trivia :D) : Which team went the farthest as a Pool B in the playoff? How far did they go? Which year was that?
Thanks.
Here is the Week #13 (final poll of the regular season) Top 25 for that year. :(
OH NO! I cannot find the archives of the old Top 25's on this new website! AAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 14, 2011, 05:50:01 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 14, 2011, 05:50:01 PM
I do not know when the Pool B stuff started but Maryville lost in the Elite 8 to Wisconsin-Platteville 87-83 in OT in 1992.
That's Murvul, actually. I would not argue that Maryville from Pool B has been wonderful over the many years it has been in the tournament but I do not think people who have drawn them have rejoiced at the pairings. They have beaten a lot of teams. Bumbling does not really capture it.
That's Murvul, actually. I would not argue that Maryville from Pool B has been wonderful over the many years it has been in the tournament but I do not think people who have drawn them have rejoiced at the pairings. They have beaten a lot of teams. Bumbling does not really capture it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2011, 06:23:30 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2011, 06:23:30 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 14, 2011, 05:50:01 PM
I do not know when the Pool B stuff started but Maryville lost in the Elite 8 to Wisconsin-Platteville 87-83 in OT in 1992.
That predates the pools system.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: petemcb on January 14, 2011, 06:36:17 PM
Post by: petemcb on January 14, 2011, 06:36:17 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 14, 2011, 06:23:30 PMQuote from: scottiedoug on January 14, 2011, 05:50:01 PM
I do not know when the Pool B stuff started but Maryville lost in the Elite 8 to Wisconsin-Platteville 87-83 in OT in 1992.
That predates the pools system.
Wow! Is that back when Opie and Andy used to go down to the swimmin' hole? At least must have been before the Clampetts and their cee-ment pond.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2011, 06:42:53 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 14, 2011, 06:42:53 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 14, 2011, 05:50:01 PM
I do not know when the Pool B stuff started but Maryville lost in the Elite 8 to Wisconsin-Platteville 87-83 in OT in 1992.
That's Murvul, actually. I would not argue that Maryville from Pool B has been wonderful over the many years it has been in the tournament but I do not think people who have drawn them have rejoiced at the pairings. They have beaten a lot of teams. Bumbling does not really capture it.
If I'm not mistaken, "Bumblin' B's" was coined the year 13-12 UDallas made it into the tourney as a B. The last B was often vastly inferior to any legitimate C challenger. The epithet was never (or at least not usually) intended to include Murvul! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 14, 2011, 11:26:49 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 14, 2011, 11:26:49 PM
When did the Pool thing start?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 14, 2011, 11:27:09 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on January 14, 2011, 11:27:09 PM
The 1999-2000 season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on January 15, 2011, 01:33:27 AM
Post by: gordonmann on January 15, 2011, 01:33:27 AM
The two deepest runs I've found are McMurry (2000) and Penn State-Behrend (2000). Both made the Elite Eight (i.e. Sectional Finals) as Pool B members. Penn State-Behrend lost to Salem State in the Sectional Finals.
I haven't seen many Sweet 16 appearances for Pool B teams, but this list could be missing a couple:
McMurry 2001: Were they Pool A at that point?
McMurry 2000 (Elite 8)
Penn State-Behrend 2000 (Elite 8)
Murville 2000 (Lost to McMurry)
Murville 2004 (Lost to John Carroll)
New Jersey City 2004 (Lost to Amherst)
Lincoln 2006 (Lost to Virginia Wesleyan)
The most obscure is NJCU's appearance in 2004. It happened during the Gothic Knights very brief tenure outside the NJAC after they tried to move to another conference (Skyline?).
My recollection is the "Bumbling Bs" board was birthed after Williams obliterated Cazenovia 121-49 in the first round of the 2002 NCAA tournament. That Williams team lost to Rochester in the next round, but several players were on the 2003 National Championship squad.
I haven't seen many Sweet 16 appearances for Pool B teams, but this list could be missing a couple:
McMurry 2001: Were they Pool A at that point?
McMurry 2000 (Elite 8)
Penn State-Behrend 2000 (Elite 8)
Murville 2000 (Lost to McMurry)
Murville 2004 (Lost to John Carroll)
New Jersey City 2004 (Lost to Amherst)
Lincoln 2006 (Lost to Virginia Wesleyan)
The most obscure is NJCU's appearance in 2004. It happened during the Gothic Knights very brief tenure outside the NJAC after they tried to move to another conference (Skyline?).
My recollection is the "Bumbling Bs" board was birthed after Williams obliterated Cazenovia 121-49 in the first round of the 2002 NCAA tournament. That Williams team lost to Rochester in the next round, but several players were on the 2003 National Championship squad.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2011, 08:48:28 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 15, 2011, 08:48:28 AM
Quote from: gordonmann on January 15, 2011, 01:33:27 AM
The two deepest runs I've found are McMurry (2000) and Penn State-Behrend (2000). Both made the Elite Eight (i.e. Sectional Finals) as Pool B members. Penn State-Behrend lost to Salem State in the Sectional Finals.
I haven't seen many Sweet 16 appearances for Pool B teams, but this list could be missing a couple:McMurry 2001: Were they Pool A at that point?Yes, I believe that the ASC had its Pool A bid and Mississippi College got in as a Pool C bid to play at Millsaps, the SCAC Pool A bid.
McMurry 2000 (Elite 8)
Penn State-Behrend 2000 (Elite 8)
Murville 2000 (Lost to McMurry)
Murville 2004 (Lost to John Carroll)
New Jersey City 2004 (Lost to Amherst)
Lincoln 2006 (Lost to Virginia Wesleyan)
The most obscure is NJCU's appearance in 2004. It happened during the Gothic Knights very brief tenure outside the NJAC after they tried to move to another conference (Skyline?).
My recollection is the "Bumbling Bs" board was birthed after Williams obliterated Cazenovia 121-49 in the first round of the 2002 NCAA tournament. That Williams team lost to Rochester in the next round, but several players were on the 2003 National Championship squad.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2011, 10:10:18 PMYES, Cazenovia!!!!! In what is as close to "Who wants to be a D3boards.com
I think that the Bumblin' B's goes back to the year that Williams beat Cazenovia, a Pool B bid from the old NEAC, by almost 50 points. I think that was in 2002 or 2003. (The access to the Notables where those stories are "archived" has not been activated under the new D3sports.com format.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on January 15, 2011, 10:33:30 AM
Post by: hopefan on January 15, 2011, 10:33:30 AM
I will flat out guarantee that if someone was really interested and did whatever research necessary, they would find that yours truly, the old hopefan, originated the term bumblin' b's.... don't remember when or the specific, but do know I came up with the term because it was used for a Western Pa. team when I played HS, and it was perfect for the more usual group of nondescript teams making up the B pool... I was even pleased when Ypsi started up the room!!!!
You have to remember, the guy who came up with the moniker 'hopefan' before all others has to have been on these pages for a long time...... ;) ;)
You have to remember, the guy who came up with the moniker 'hopefan' before all others has to have been on these pages for a long time...... ;) ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Solid weekend for Chapman, who won 3 more games that are in-region. They are 14-1, with 2 games left that are "TBA".
It looks like Maryville will be scrambling for a Pool C bid.
It looks like Maryville will be scrambling for a Pool C bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on January 24, 2011, 01:21:47 AM
Post by: dahlby on January 24, 2011, 01:21:47 AM
Both remaining games for Chapman "TBA" are against Dallas and UCSC in AD3I post season tourney. The series just finished, against the same schools was called the AD3I
round-robin. Real tough getting games that count this time of year. All other CU games are against NCCAA and NAIA.
round-robin. Real tough getting games that count this time of year. All other CU games are against NCCAA and NAIA.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 24, 2011, 04:10:33 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 24, 2011, 04:10:33 PM
I think Maryville has figured out what it takes to win. It took a while because so many new and young people had to step in because of key injuries and quits. The Scots have played some very successful teams (Marietta, Emory, Centre, Guilford, NCWesleyan) but lost a few too many on the up side of the learning curve. They could very well win out in D3 but not against teams that anybody will think matter.
Never had a Pool C bid but it would be nice! Maybe they could play Chapman.
Never had a Pool C bid but it would be nice! Maybe they could play Chapman.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2011, 04:12:25 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 24, 2011, 04:12:25 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 24, 2011, 04:10:33 PMWe await the Regional Rankings next week to see whether Murvul and Chapman are listed. ;)
I think Maryville has figured out what it takes to win. It took a while because so many new and young people had to step in because of key injuries and quits. The Scots have played some very successful teams (Marietta, Emory, Centre, Guilford, NCWesleyan) but lost a few too many on the up side of the learning curve. They could very well win out in D3 but not against teams that anybody will think matter.
Never had a Pool C bid but it would be nice! Maybe they could play Chapman.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 24, 2011, 04:36:31 PM
Post by: RustCollege on January 24, 2011, 04:36:31 PM
and dont forget Rust
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ziggy on January 24, 2011, 04:54:36 PM
Post by: ziggy on January 24, 2011, 04:54:36 PM
Quote from: RustCollege on January 24, 2011, 04:36:31 PM
and dont forget Rust
Rust's problem is their winning percentage looks horrible next to their weighted strength of schedule. The SOS is such a problem that a standard RPI calculation favors Murvul and Huntingdon over Rust.
Chapman .933 WP, .548 weighted SOS
Maryville .571 WP, .618 weighted SOS
Huntingdon .500 WP, .565 weighted SOS
Rust .688 WP, .428 weighted SOS
For a bit of (recent) historical context, Wheaton was probably one of the last Pool C teams a year ago. They had a .680 WP but did that with a .551 SOS. The NCAA didn't weight the SOS like they are this year but the point remains the same.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: OxyBob on January 24, 2011, 07:17:03 PM
Post by: OxyBob on January 24, 2011, 07:17:03 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Solid weekend for Chapman, who won 3 more games that are in-region.
Chapman beat 1-16 LeTourneau, 7-11 UCSC, and 2-15 UDallas.
More like solidly weak.
OxyBob
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on January 24, 2011, 07:33:27 PM
Post by: RustCollege on January 24, 2011, 07:33:27 PM
Quote from: ziggy on January 24, 2011, 04:54:36 PMif anything we are on the road more then any team in D3 Rust didnt hav a home game for the month of Jan and thats just sad if Huntingdon is in front of us and as for chapman they hav not played anybody....if they just let us in we will be the team to watch Rust has one of the best teams but bein on the road so much and its hard on the road (Rust is 11-5 in D3)Quote from: RustCollege on January 24, 2011, 04:36:31 PM
and dont forget Rust
Rust's problem is their winning percentage looks horrible next to their weighted strength of schedule. The SOS is such a problem that a standard RPI calculation favors Murvul and Huntingdon over Rust.
Chapman .933 WP, .548 weighted SOS
Maryville .571 WP, .618 weighted SOS
Huntingdon .500 WP, .565 weighted SOS
Rust .688 WP, .428 weighted SOS
For a bit of (recent) historical context, Wheaton was probably one of the last Pool C teams a year ago. They had a .680 WP but did that with a .551 SOS. The NCAA didn't weight the SOS like they are this year but the point remains the same.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2011, 07:44:38 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on January 24, 2011, 07:44:38 PM
Quote from: OxyBob on January 24, 2011, 07:17:03 PMQuote from: Ralph Turner on January 23, 2011, 11:12:43 PM
Solid weekend for Chapman, who won 3 more games that are in-region.
Chapman beat 1-16 LeTourneau, 7-11 UCSC, and 2-15 UDallas.
More like solidly weak.
OxyBob
OB, your rants against Chapman's schedule are getting VERY shopworn. Once the SCIAC starts conference play, do YOU want to try to schedule games for them?! :P
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:11:03 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 02, 2011, 03:11:03 PM
First Regional Rankings: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/02/ncaas-mens-regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 09, 2011, 02:53:04 PM
Newest men's regional rankings are up. Pass it on:
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/09/ncaas-2011-regional-rankings-week-2/
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/09/ncaas-2011-regional-rankings-week-2/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:27:15 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 16, 2011, 03:27:15 PM
Week 3 Regional Rankings are out: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/16/ncaa-2011-regional-rankings-week-3/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2011, 04:14:33 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2011, 04:14:33 PM
Still Chapman's to lose.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 17, 2011, 09:42:52 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 17, 2011, 09:42:52 AM
Chapman's competition for this slot this year is as tough as their schedule.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 17, 2011, 10:18:57 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 17, 2011, 10:18:57 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 17, 2011, 09:42:52 AM
Chapman's competition for this slot this year is as tough as their schedule.
0.535?
That's how the NCAA rates their schedule.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 17, 2011, 10:28:04 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 17, 2011, 10:28:04 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 16, 2011, 04:14:33 PM
Still Chapman's to lose.
They're a lead pipe lock. Can't lose it at this point.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 02:03:06 PM
Post by: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 02:03:06 PM
The GSAC needs to somehow find another couple of teams so they can get out of this pool.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 04:46:02 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 04:46:02 PM
Quote from: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 02:03:06 PMThe USA South will fall to 6 teams next year and then they will lose their Pool A status for the 2013-14.
The GSAC needs to somehow find another couple of teams so they can get out of this pool.
By 2013-14 Covenant will be a full member. That gives five men's teams to form a South Division of the USA South. The men can affiliate, while the GSAC Women continue as a functioning conference.
It would not surprise me to see CNU move to the Capital AC for all sports, with the possible exception of football in 1-2 years, if the migration can be done favorably with all parties in agreement that it is good for each party concerned.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 06:35:35 PM
Post by: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 06:35:35 PM
If it were to happen how long would they have to wait before getting an automatic bid?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 06:44:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 06:44:37 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 04:46:02 PMQuote from: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 02:03:06 PMThe USA South will fall to 6 teams next year and then they will lose their Pool A status for the 2013-14.
The GSAC needs to somehow find another couple of teams so they can get out of this pool.
By 2013-14 Covenant will be a full member. That gives five men's teams to form a South Division of the USA South. The men can affiliate, while the GSAC Women continue as a functioning conference.
It would not surprise me to see CNU move to the Capital AC for all sports, with the possible exception of football in 1-2 years, if the migration can be done favorably with all parties in agreement that it is good for each party concerned.
Quote from: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 06:35:35 PMAs I understand it, if the USA South accepts an affiliation agreement from the members of the GSAC men (or any other single school that wants to join the USA South as a replacement for Shenandoah) by August 2013, then USA South will not lose its Pool A status in: Soccer, Basketball, Golf, Tennis and Baseball.
If it were to happen how long would they have to wait before getting an automatic bid?
My main concern is for the GSAC to stand together and not cast off Huntingdon or LaGrange.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 07:19:18 PM
Post by: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 07:19:18 PM
That could work.What do you think Berry has in mind?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2011, 11:55:34 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 18, 2011, 11:55:34 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 04:46:02 PMQuote from: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 02:03:06 PMThe USA South will fall to 6 teams next year and then they will lose their Pool A status for the 2013-14.
The GSAC needs to somehow find another couple of teams so they can get out of this pool.
By 2013-14 Covenant will be a full member. That gives five men's teams to form a South Division of the USA South. The men can affiliate, while the GSAC Women continue as a functioning conference.
It would not surprise me to see CNU move to the Capital AC for all sports, with the possible exception of football in 1-2 years, if the migration can be done favorably with all parties in agreement that it is good for each party concerned.
Not sure the CAC takes CNU... it will turn into a very large distance for teams like York and Frostburg State... and I just don't feel a ground-swell just yet to bring CNU into the CAC. And football isn't something the CAC is in position to put together... all of the schools in the CAC have football affiliations with some having three to five more years on their conference contracts. I think the speculation CNU enters the CAC is maybe guess-work and not something I have heard on the table (though, I will be be back to checking around after getting no where back in December on this).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 11:59:53 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 18, 2011, 11:59:53 PM
Thanks, "d-mac".
I am glad that it is on your radar screen.
I agree that CNU is solely a "football" commodity. There is not much reason to invite them otherwise.
There are 4 football schools in the CAC now. (Salisbury, Frostburg St, Stevenson and Wesley.)
I am glad that it is on your radar screen.
I agree that CNU is solely a "football" commodity. There is not much reason to invite them otherwise.
There are 4 football schools in the CAC now. (Salisbury, Frostburg St, Stevenson and Wesley.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 12:04:30 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2011, 12:04:30 AM
Quote from: bballlover on February 18, 2011, 07:19:18 PM
That could work.What do you think Berry has in mind?
SCAC.
Berry's endowment is listed as $592M in the 2010 NACUBO report.
That is in the Brandeis, University of Miami, Rutgers, Macalester, LSU (the Geaux Tigers LSU), Colgate range.
www.nacubo.org
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2011, 03:51:11 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 23, 2011, 03:51:11 PM
Final Regional Rankings are out before Selection Sunday: http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/category/ncaa-stuff/regional-rankings/
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 12:27:48 AM
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 12:27:48 AM
ID3 Indy Tourney at UDallas. No atuo bid involved:
Neb Wes 83-47 over UDallas
Chapman 70-57 over UCSC
Chapman vs Neb Wes Saturday for championship.
Neb Wes defeated Chapman earlier this season.
Neb Wes record is deceiving as they play several NAIA teams up in the midwest.
Neb Wes 83-47 over UDallas
Chapman 70-57 over UCSC
Chapman vs Neb Wes Saturday for championship.
Neb Wes defeated Chapman earlier this season.
Neb Wes record is deceiving as they play several NAIA teams up in the midwest.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2011, 09:25:47 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2011, 09:25:47 PM
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 12:27:48 AM
ID3 Indy Tourney at UDallas. No atuo bid involved:
Neb Wes 83-47 over UDallas
Chapman 70-57 over UCSC
Chapman vs Neb Wes Saturday for championship.
Neb Wes defeated Chapman earlier this season.
Neb Wes record is deceiving as they play several NAIA teams up in the midwest.
NebWes is in an NAIA league. NWU has dual membership; every other school in the Great Plains Athletic Conference is NAIA-only.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 09:34:47 PM
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 09:34:47 PM
Gregory,
I am well aware of that. In my previous postings I have referred to that fact and also that their record could be deceiving. They handled the Chapman women's team earlier this year in Corlorado Springs and that they should not be taken lightly. The unranked CU women, as Independants, need to win almost every game to make the tourney.
Please check my prior posts regarding the NAIA games that Neb Wes plays. I am very familiar with the teams up in the midweast, as I competed against the while attending college in that "neck of the woods". What was the purpose of your post? With all due respect to someone with over 12,000 posts. Cheers, looks like Chapman will get both men's and women's in the tourney this year.
I am well aware of that. In my previous postings I have referred to that fact and also that their record could be deceiving. They handled the Chapman women's team earlier this year in Corlorado Springs and that they should not be taken lightly. The unranked CU women, as Independants, need to win almost every game to make the tourney.
Please check my prior posts regarding the NAIA games that Neb Wes plays. I am very familiar with the teams up in the midweast, as I competed against the while attending college in that "neck of the woods". What was the purpose of your post? With all due respect to someone with over 12,000 posts. Cheers, looks like Chapman will get both men's and women's in the tourney this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2011, 10:54:59 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2011, 10:54:59 PM
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 09:34:47 PM
Gregory,
I am well aware of that. In my previous postings I have referred to that fact and also that their record could be deceiving. They handled the Chapman women's team earlier this year in Corlorado Springs and that they should not be taken lightly. The unranked CU women, as Independants, need to win almost every game to make the tourney.
Please check my prior posts regarding the NAIA games that Neb Wes plays. I am very familiar with the teams up in the midweast, as I competed against the while attending college in that "neck of the woods". What was the purpose of your post? With all due respect to someone with over 12,000 posts. Cheers, looks like Chapman will get both men's and women's in the tourney this year.
I was simply providing background information, since your post didn't really: a) clarify NWU's status; or b) elaborate upon the word "several" in your last sentence, as NWU's membership in the GPAC requires it to play a minimum of 18 of its 25 games against NAIA opponents. Eighteen of 25 strikes me as a lot more than "several."
How is your college background, or long-since-scrolled prior posts, relevant? With all due respect, I was just trying to fill in some information here. It's not about oneupsmanship; it's about sharing info.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:24:25 PM
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:24:25 PM
Gregory,
My post from YESTERDAY (not so long ago) simply indicated that Neb Wes record should not be indicative of their strength against a Chapman team, whether men's or women's.
I follow sporting events in that "neck of the woods" as I have several relatives with offspring playing at many of the colleges. Usually high school and college sports are the only thing to do in many of the towns, and as a result, we all follow it closely. I did as well, especially when my father was coaching some of them, including me.
But, on the otherhand, I am sure that our fellow posters appreciate your taking my simple comment to a higher level by furnishing further details.
With all due respect.
My post from YESTERDAY (not so long ago) simply indicated that Neb Wes record should not be indicative of their strength against a Chapman team, whether men's or women's.
I follow sporting events in that "neck of the woods" as I have several relatives with offspring playing at many of the colleges. Usually high school and college sports are the only thing to do in many of the towns, and as a result, we all follow it closely. I did as well, especially when my father was coaching some of them, including me.
But, on the otherhand, I am sure that our fellow posters appreciate your taking my simple comment to a higher level by furnishing further details.
With all due respect.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2011, 11:28:09 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2011, 11:28:09 PM
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:24:25 PM
Gregory,
My post from YESTERDAY (not so long ago) simply indicated that Neb Wes record should not be indicative of their strength against a Chapman team, whether men's or women's.
Right. And I was following that up with some additional details to explain why.
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:24:25 PM
I follow sporting events in that "neck of the woods" as I have several relatives with offspring playing at many of the colleges. Usually high school and college sports are the only thing to do in many of the towns, and as a result, we all follow it closely. I did as well, especially when my father was coaching some of them, including me.
That's great, but, again, I'm not sure how this is germane to the subject at hand.
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:24:25 PMBut, on the otherhand, I am sure that our fellow posters appreciate your taking my simple comment to a higher level by furnishing further details.
That's really all I'm trying to do: Add further details. Honestly, I'm not trying to show up anyone.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:34:54 PM
Post by: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:34:54 PM
Background thru experience is most valuable when evaluating quality of play, especially when a team with a lower percentage of wins plays a team with a higher percentage of
wins.
This is the case with many of the NAIA teams that play D3 teams on the west coast, and also iincluding a Menlo (whose division changes quite regularly and UC Santa Cruz up in the bay area where they play many NAIA and NCCAA type teams. The records always do not speak for themself.
Your comments are taken in a positive spirit. But I do prefer that comments be "Norweign" to the topic, rather than Germane". :-)
Cheers!
wins.
This is the case with many of the NAIA teams that play D3 teams on the west coast, and also iincluding a Menlo (whose division changes quite regularly and UC Santa Cruz up in the bay area where they play many NAIA and NCCAA type teams. The records always do not speak for themself.
Your comments are taken in a positive spirit. But I do prefer that comments be "Norweign" to the topic, rather than Germane". :-)
Cheers!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on February 27, 2011, 04:34:03 AM
Post by: dahlby on February 27, 2011, 04:34:03 AM
Saturday's Indy Tourney results:
Chapman over UCSC 91-77
Neb Wes over UDallas 57-55
Chapman over UCSC 91-77
Neb Wes over UDallas 57-55
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 27, 2011, 06:28:09 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 27, 2011, 06:28:09 PM
I hope Chapman represents the B's well!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on February 27, 2011, 09:40:55 PM
Post by: RustCollege on February 27, 2011, 09:40:55 PM
why do we have one B when we should have two...D3 need to expand its playoff from 61 to 68
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on February 27, 2011, 09:51:24 PM
Post by: Hugenerd on February 27, 2011, 09:51:24 PM
Quote from: RustCollege on February 27, 2011, 09:40:55 PMThe size of the field is proportional to the number of D3 teams, one for every 6.5. Same thing for Pool B, it depends only on the number of independents. In the past it has been as many as 3, but as teams join conferences and there are less independents, the number of Pool B spots also decreases. As you know, it is down to 1 this year.
why do we have one B when we should have two...D3 need to expand its playoff from 61 to 68
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2011, 09:51:59 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2011, 09:51:59 PM
Quote from: RustCollege on February 27, 2011, 09:40:55 PMThe number of bids is set at 1 bid for every 6.5 teams that sponsor the sport to fit the money that the NCAA has given D-III from the March Madness TV contract. They are capped at 64 for fill 3 weekends, so as not to miss school. Therefoer, two reasons for the number of schools...MONEY (that does not come from D-III itself) and missed classtime.
why do we have one B when we should have two...D3 need to expand its playoff from 61 to 68
That gives us 61 men and 64 women's teams.
The number of Pool B bids is determined by the access ratio, which is the number of teams in Pool A conferences divided by the number of Pool A conferences.
This roughly gives us an access ratio of about 1:9. If there were 18 independents, then there would be 2 Pool B bids.
Hugenerd beat me to it. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 01:24:44 AM
Post by: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 01:24:44 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 27, 2011, 06:28:09 PM
I hope Chapman represents the B's well!!
Ramme and Riley want to go out with a bang, so you can count on Chapman going into the post-season ready to play. Of course, the playoffs are a crapshot and particularly the D3 playoffs. Assuming that Chapman wins their first round game (although far from being a given), it is a shame that they have to run into the #2 ranked team in the round of 32. Properly seeded, this tournament would have allowed 15th ranked Chapman not to run into a higher ranked team until much later. However, they have to accept that and make the best of it. That's what upsets are for and College basketball hands out plenty of those in any given season. Go Chapman!!! Earn some respect!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 08:08:40 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 08:08:40 AM
Quote from: oldchap on February 28, 2011, 01:24:44 AMIn Hoopsville last night, Pat Coleman made the comment about the disservice that geographic proximity does to the isolated teams from the NWC and the ASC who moved from NAIA in the mid-90's to D-III.Quote from: scottiedoug on February 27, 2011, 06:28:09 PM
I hope Chapman represents the B's well!!
Ramme and Riley want to go out with a bang, so you can count on Chapman going into the post-season ready to play. Of course, the playoffs are a crapshot and particularly the D3 playoffs. Assuming that Chapman wins their first round game (although far from being a given), it is a shame that they have to run into the #2 ranked team in the round of 32. Properly seeded, this tournament would have allowed 15th ranked Chapman not to run into a higher ranked team until much later. However, they have to accept that and make the best of it. That's what upsets are for and College basketball hands out plenty of those in any given season. Go Chapman!!! Earn some respect!!!
Division II has more teams in those geographic area relative to the Division at large.
Chapman could move to D-II. ;)
(Now, no one read anything into that. I know nothing about Chapman doing anything other than trying to get into the SCIAC, win two games, this week and see the Baseball team return to Wisconsin in May.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2011, 08:13:59 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2011, 08:13:59 AM
Well.. moving to D2 would mean more overhead and budget for athletic departments... so I don't see that being a move any D3 would be willing to make in these tough times, especially.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ziggy on March 10, 2011, 12:10:58 PM
Post by: ziggy on March 10, 2011, 12:10:58 PM
I was previously unaware that the Great West conference, 1. Exists and 2. Does not have an automatic Division I tournament bid. Revelation #2 and my familiarity with the DIII process makes me think POOL B!
Wikipedia tells me there are 346 schools in 32 Division I conferences. 31 conferences hand out automatic bids , of which 339 teams are eligible (346 minus the 7 Great West schools).
Following the DIII handbook's instructions, the Division I access ratio is 10.9
Pool B bids = # of teams/access ratio (rounded down), so... 7/10.9 = 0.642 -> 0 Pool B bids
I can't find any Division I documents that refer to a pool B but I have to believe it exists; it just so happens it provides zero bids in its existence.
Perhaps minds greater than my own have already discussed this topic but I thought it was an interesting comparison.
Wikipedia tells me there are 346 schools in 32 Division I conferences. 31 conferences hand out automatic bids , of which 339 teams are eligible (346 minus the 7 Great West schools).
Following the DIII handbook's instructions, the Division I access ratio is 10.9
Pool B bids = # of teams/access ratio (rounded down), so... 7/10.9 = 0.642 -> 0 Pool B bids
I can't find any Division I documents that refer to a pool B but I have to believe it exists; it just so happens it provides zero bids in its existence.
Perhaps minds greater than my own have already discussed this topic but I thought it was an interesting comparison.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on March 10, 2011, 02:18:48 PM
Post by: sac on March 10, 2011, 02:18:48 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2011, 08:13:59 AM
Well.. moving to D2 would mean more overhead and budget for athletic departments... so I don't see that being a move any D3 would be willing to make in these tough times, especially.
McMurry, Maryville, Lake Erie......I'm sure there are more.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on March 10, 2011, 02:57:34 PM
Post by: David Collinge on March 10, 2011, 02:57:34 PM
Quote from: sac on March 10, 2011, 02:18:48 PMQuote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 28, 2011, 08:13:59 AM
Well.. moving to D2 would mean more overhead and budget for athletic departments... so I don't see that being a move any D3 would be willing to make in these tough times, especially.
McMurry, Maryville, Lake Erie......I'm sure there are more.
Maryville is going to D2? Is that Maryville MO or Murvul? First I've heard of that, but I don't get around like I used to.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2011, 03:19:18 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2011, 03:19:18 PM
Yeah, it's the Missouri one and they've been gone for a couple years now. Cal State-East Bay went as well, though they were NAIA in basketball and D-III only in a few sports, such as baseball.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
Pool B in 2011-12.
Here are the Pool10 8 definite B teams that I find, and as many as 10.
Lancaster Bible unless joining the NEAC
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA next season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont) Last season for LaGrange and Piedmont.
Rust
Nebraska Wesleyan (Are they declaring for the NCAA again? Or does the GPAC need them for the second NAIA AQ?)
Finlandia
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
No word on full membership for North Central University in the UMAC. (The North Central men's golf team is the UMAC Pool A bid in golf this week.)
Lancaster Bible sits amid several conferences that might peer institutions. They are still an independent.
Revised -- May 19, 2011
Here are the Pool
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA next season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont) Last season for LaGrange and Piedmont.
Rust
Finlandia
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
No word on full membership for North Central University in the UMAC. (The North Central men's golf team is the UMAC Pool A bid in golf this week.)
Lancaster Bible sits amid several conferences that might peer institutions. They are still an independent.
Revised -- May 19, 2011
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 13, 2011, 01:36:04 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 13, 2011, 01:36:04 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
Nebraska Wesleyan (Are they declaring for the NCAA again?)
It has for all 37 years of D3 men's basketball's existence. I can't imagine NWU changing now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: haterinthehouse on May 13, 2011, 02:07:07 PM
Post by: haterinthehouse on May 13, 2011, 02:07:07 PM
NWU will be declaring NAIA (remaining non-scholarship) in MBB and WBB for 2011-12. It looks like this has to do with their scheduling and their association to the GPAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on May 13, 2011, 02:08:13 PM
Post by: gordonmann on May 13, 2011, 02:08:13 PM
If you look at the NEAC's website, you'll see Lancaster Bible listed as a full member. But if you look at Lancaster Bible's website for hoops, you'll see no mention of any such affiliation. In fact, the hoops site shows LBC as a member of the Division III Independents and the Chargers only played two NEAC schools last year. LBC participated in the NCCAA tournament.
Other D3s to D2s include Lincoln and Chestnut Hill.
Other D3s to D2s include Lincoln and Chestnut Hill.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 13, 2011, 02:13:51 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on May 13, 2011, 02:13:51 PM
Quote from: haterinthehouse on May 13, 2011, 02:07:07 PM
NWU will be declaring NAIA (remaining non-scholarship) in MBB and WBB for 2011-12. It looks like this has to do with their scheduling and their association to the GPAC.
How do you know this? There's nothing about such a move on either the GPAC's website or NWU's.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 19, 2011, 11:14:48 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 19, 2011, 11:14:48 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on May 13, 2011, 02:13:51 PMI think that the GPAC needs the membership to maintain a second AQ in the NAIA tourney.Quote from: haterinthehouse on May 13, 2011, 02:07:07 PM
NWU will be declaring NAIA (remaining non-scholarship) in MBB and WBB for 2011-12. It looks like this has to do with their scheduling and their association to the GPAC.
How do you know this? There's nothing about such a move on either the GPAC's website or NWU's.
The GPAC has lost membership in the last couple of years. Dana College closed its doors last year and the GPAC lost its second bid in several sports.
The University of Sioux Falls moves to NCAA D-II in 2011-12.
http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/sports/columnists/article_b75994ec-0d1b-5d81-a19d-e040f1ba90a2.html
Thanks to Senior Reports, where I found this link.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 19, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on May 19, 2011, 11:22:50 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on May 13, 2011, 02:08:13 PMI have always thought that the NEAC was the best place for Lancaster.
If you look at the NEAC's website, you'll see Lancaster Bible listed as a full member. But if you look at Lancaster Bible's website for hoops, you'll see no mention of any such affiliation. In fact, the hoops site shows LBC as a member of the Division III Independents and the Chargers only played two NEAC schools last year. LBC participated in the NCCAA tournament.
Other D3s to D2s include Lincoln and Chestnut Hill.
I would not be surprised if the NEAC website reported some technical information about Lancaster before the official announcement. I will bet that we see the announcement in the early summer.
The Lancaster men's 2011 soccer schedule shows NEAC conference games.
http://www.lbcchargers.com/schedule.aspx?path=msoc
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on May 25, 2011, 08:16:45 PM
Post by: gordonmann on May 25, 2011, 08:16:45 PM
I drive past Lancaster weekly for work, so I stopped by Lancaster Bible tonight to look at its facilities. It's a nice, small campus tucked away off Route 30. I drove by it twice before I found it. There's a sign advertising construction of a new student center at the college's entry way. The Horst Athletic Center is fine -- relatively new and small. And the banners of all the NEAC teams were hanging in it. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 26, 2011, 09:52:12 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 26, 2011, 09:52:12 AM
We'll need to have 10 pool B teams to get 1 bid, as the access ratio looks to remain around 9.3. It appears that 10 will be a stretch.
We should be getting a 62nd bid this year, I believe.
That would make:
42 Pool A, 0 Pool B, 20 Pool C or 42 Pool A, 1 Pool B, 19 Pool C
We should be getting a 62nd bid this year, I believe.
That would make:
42 Pool A, 0 Pool B, 20 Pool C or 42 Pool A, 1 Pool B, 19 Pool C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 26, 2011, 09:54:31 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on May 26, 2011, 09:54:31 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
Pool B in 2011-12.
Here are the Pool108 definite B teams that I find, and as many as 10.Lancaster Bibleunless joining the NEAC
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA next season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont) Last season for LaGrange and Piedmont.
RustNebraska Wesleyan(Are they declaring for the NCAA again? Or does the GPAC need them for the second NAIA AQ?)
Finlandia
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
No word on full membership for North Central University in the UMAC. (The North Central men's golf team is the UMAC Pool A bid in golf this week.)
Lancaster Bible sits amid several conferences that might peer institutions. They are still an independent.
Revised -- May 19, 2011
What about St. Joseph's (Bklyn)? They're set to become a full NCAA member. Are they still going to be independent?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 26, 2011, 10:52:34 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on May 26, 2011, 10:52:34 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 26, 2011, 09:52:12 AM
We should be getting a 62nd bid this year, I believe.
Yes, there will be a 62nd men's team in the 2012 tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on May 26, 2011, 02:49:09 PM
Post by: gordonmann on May 26, 2011, 02:49:09 PM
St. Joe's is another school that appears to have conference options, if they want to take them - Skyline (which already has the Long Island branch of the same University), NEAC, CSAC, maybe even one of the New England conferences.
But maybe they'll just decide to stay in the Hudson Valley Men's (and Women's) Athletic Conference. Their non-conference schedule from last year indicates a preference to stay local.
But maybe they'll just decide to stay in the Hudson Valley Men's (and Women's) Athletic Conference. Their non-conference schedule from last year indicates a preference to stay local.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 07, 2011, 04:50:42 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 07, 2011, 04:50:42 PM
With the splitting of 7 members plus Berry after 2011-12, Pool B picks up those 7 schools for 2012-13 and then Berry in 2013-14. Since the number of Pool B bids is determined before the # of Pool C bids, it is likely that the bid will come from the Pool C total in those 2 years.
They become the competition for the Pool B bid in 2012-13.
They become the competition for the Pool B bid in 2012-13.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on June 08, 2011, 01:00:23 PM
Post by: CityD3 on June 08, 2011, 01:00:23 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on May 26, 2011, 09:54:31 AMQuote from: Ralph Turner on May 12, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
Pool B in 2011-12.
Here are the Pool108 definite B teams that I find, and as many as 10.Lancaster Bibleunless joining the NEAC
U Maine - Presque Isle (Are they declaring for the NAIA next season?)
GSAC-4 (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Maryville, Piedmont) Last season for LaGrange and Piedmont.
RustNebraska Wesleyan(Are they declaring for the NCAA again? Or does the GPAC need them for the second NAIA AQ?)
Finlandia
UC Santa Cruz
North Central University (MN)
No word on full membership for North Central University in the UMAC. (The North Central men's golf team is the UMAC Pool A bid in golf this week.)
Lancaster Bible sits amid several conferences that might peer institutions. They are still an independent.
Revised -- May 19, 2011
What about St. Joseph's (Bklyn)? They're set to become a full NCAA member. Are they still going to be independent?
St. Joseph's will be staying independent for the time being and will play in the HVMAC (non-NCAA affiliated conference) while being dually affiliated with the USCAA. And from what I hear Lancaster is going NEAC. So how many teams does that make in pool B ?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 08, 2011, 02:20:47 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 08, 2011, 02:20:47 PM
It's gonna be between 12 (absolute max) and 8.
These are the "possibilites" that may not end up in Pool B.
Lancaster Bible (NEAC)
North Central (MN) (UMAC)
UMPI (NAIA)
Nebraska Wesleyan (NAIA)
Pool B needs to be 10 members or more to get a bid for next season.
These are the "possibilites" that may not end up in Pool B.
Lancaster Bible (NEAC)
North Central (MN) (UMAC)
UMPI (NAIA)
Nebraska Wesleyan (NAIA)
Pool B needs to be 10 members or more to get a bid for next season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on June 08, 2011, 04:57:32 PM
Post by: CityD3 on June 08, 2011, 04:57:32 PM
Who are the other 8? Rust, Finlandia, St. Joseph's, UMPI, Neb Wesleyan, U Maine Presque Isle?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on June 08, 2011, 06:59:13 PM
Post by: gordonmann on June 08, 2011, 06:59:13 PM
QuoteWho are the other 8? Rust, Finlandia, St. Joseph's, UMPI, Neb Wesleyan, U Maine Presque Isle?
The six you mention plus Lancaster Bible, UC Santa Cruz and the four teams in the GSAC (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Piedmont and Maryville) are the 12 teams people have discussed.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Just Bill on June 08, 2011, 07:58:07 PM
Post by: Just Bill on June 08, 2011, 07:58:07 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on June 08, 2011, 06:59:13 PMQuoteWho are the other 8? Rust, Finlandia, St. Joseph's, UMPI, Neb Wesleyan, U Maine Presque Isle?
The six you mention plus Lancaster Bible, UC Santa Cruz and the four teams in the GSAC (Huntingdon, LaGrange, Piedmont and Maryville) are the 12 teams people have discussed.
The SIX he mentioned? I don't think "UMPI" and U Maine Presque Isle" are two different schools. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on June 08, 2011, 11:48:25 PM
Post by: gordonmann on June 08, 2011, 11:48:25 PM
Quite right. Sorry.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2011, 12:02:34 AM
Quote from: CityD3 on June 08, 2011, 04:57:32 PM
Who are the other 8? Rust, Finlandia, St. Joseph's, UMPI, Neb Wesleyan, U Maine Presque Isle?
The other 8 are:
Huntingdon
LaGrange
Piedmont
Maryville
Rust
Finlandia
St. Joseph's
UC Santa Cruz
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on June 09, 2011, 05:36:25 PM
Post by: CityD3 on June 09, 2011, 05:36:25 PM
Of those who would be favored to get the pool B bid? Based on history
obviously because it's too early to tell
obviously because it's too early to tell
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2011, 08:25:42 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 09, 2011, 08:25:42 PM
Quote from: CityD3 on June 09, 2011, 05:36:25 PM
Of those who would be favored to get the pool B bid? Based on history
obviously because it's too early to tell
If Pool B doesn't reach 10 schools, there won't be a bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on June 10, 2011, 09:57:12 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on June 10, 2011, 09:57:12 AM
In that case, a Pool C bid would be the only way in? How many such bids would there be?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 10, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on June 10, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on June 10, 2011, 09:57:12 AM
In that case, a Pool C bid would be the only way in? How many such bids would there be?
If Pool B <10:
42 Pool A
20 Pool C
If Pool B >=10
42 Pool A
1 Pool B
19 Pool C
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 22, 2011, 03:42:21 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 22, 2011, 03:42:21 PM
Lancaster's schedule is confirming NEAC affiliation. They're officially off the Pool B board.
http://www.lbcchargers.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&
It appears that North Central (Minn) will not be joining the UMAC in hoops this season. Page 10 of the 2011-12 UMAC orientaion slideshow lists them only as Cross Country, Tennis, Golf (mens), and Track and field.
http://umacathletics.com/documents/2011/5/19/UMAC_1112_Orientation_PowerPoint.pdf?id=416
So we'll get a pool B bid if either UMPI or Nebraska Wesleyan declare for the NCAA (how/when do we find out the declarations?).
http://www.lbcchargers.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&
It appears that North Central (Minn) will not be joining the UMAC in hoops this season. Page 10 of the 2011-12 UMAC orientaion slideshow lists them only as Cross Country, Tennis, Golf (mens), and Track and field.
http://umacathletics.com/documents/2011/5/19/UMAC_1112_Orientation_PowerPoint.pdf?id=416
So we'll get a pool B bid if either UMPI or Nebraska Wesleyan declare for the NCAA (how/when do we find out the declarations?).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 22, 2011, 04:21:30 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 22, 2011, 04:21:30 PM
Quote from: CityD3 on June 09, 2011, 05:36:25 PMOf those 8, I can only remember Maryville TN earning a Pool B bid.
Of those who would be favored to get the pool B bid? Based on history
obviously because it's too early to tell
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 22, 2011, 04:22:27 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on July 22, 2011, 04:22:27 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 22, 2011, 03:42:21 PMI think that Knightslappy is right.
Lancaster's schedule is confirming NEAC affiliation. They're officially off the Pool B board.
http://www.lbcchargers.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball&
It appears that North Central (Minn) will not be joining the UMAC in hoops this season. Page 10 of the 2011-12 UMAC orientaion slideshow lists them only as Cross Country, Tennis, Golf (mens), and Track and field.
http://umacathletics.com/documents/2011/5/19/UMAC_1112_Orientation_PowerPoint.pdf?id=416
So we'll get a pool B bid if either UMPI or Nebraska Wesleyan declare for the NCAA (how/when do we find out the declarations?).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 22, 2011, 04:49:51 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on July 22, 2011, 04:49:51 PM
UMPI is not listed as sponsoring NAIA hoops next year.
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf
The Sunrise Conference's Wikipedia page:
"UM-Presque Isle is transitioning to an independent member of NCAA Division III"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunrise_Athletic_Conference
The UMPI Wikipedia page:
"UMPI has 12 varsity sport programs and is a member of the United States Collegiate Athletic Association (USCAA). The university previously competed in the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics (NAIA) in the Sunrise Athletic Conference"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Maine_at_Presque_Isle
No updates on the UMPI athletic page since last year, so we have no idea what they're really doing. Are there currently any dual USCAA/NCAA members?
http://graphics.fansonly.com/schools/naia/member-services/championships/Qualifcation_Plans/qual_plans_pdf/qual_MBB_DII.pdf
The Sunrise Conference's Wikipedia page:
"UM-Presque Isle is transitioning to an independent member of NCAA Division III"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunrise_Athletic_Conference
The UMPI Wikipedia page:
"UMPI has 12 varsity sport programs and is a member of the United States Collegiate Athletic Association (USCAA). The university previously competed in the National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics (NAIA) in the Sunrise Athletic Conference"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Maine_at_Presque_Isle
No updates on the UMPI athletic page since last year, so we have no idea what they're really doing. Are there currently any dual USCAA/NCAA members?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hampton U SID on July 26, 2011, 01:15:20 PM
Post by: Hampton U SID on July 26, 2011, 01:15:20 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on July 22, 2011, 04:49:51 PM
No updates on the UMPI athletic page since last year, so we have no idea what they're really doing. Are there currently any dual USCAA/NCAA members?
Speaking as the SID for the USCAA (shifting to put on that hat)
NCAA D2 - Washington Adventist (formerly Columbia Union)
NCAA D3 - St. Joseph's-Brooklyn (soon to be as they've finished their provisional time)
Spalding -- (one year away I believe)
University of Dallas
Southern Virginia I know is exploring D3
Those are the only ones that I can think of
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 23, 2011, 08:31:47 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 23, 2011, 08:31:47 AM
From the UMPI AD:
We are NCAA Div. III Independent. We have also joined the USCAA as an Independent and we have left the NAIA.
I would have to imagine that with the NAIA out of the picture, UMPI will declare for the NCAA tournament.
We are NCAA Div. III Independent. We have also joined the USCAA as an Independent and we have left the NAIA.
I would have to imagine that with the NAIA out of the picture, UMPI will declare for the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on August 23, 2011, 11:50:13 AM
Post by: John Gleich on August 23, 2011, 11:50:13 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 23, 2011, 08:31:47 AM
From the UMPI AD:
We are NCAA Div. III Independent. We have also joined the USCAA as an Independent and we have left the NAIA.
I would have to imagine that with the NAIA out of the picture, UMPI will declare for the NCAA tournament.
... did the dogsled team finally arrive? When was the message dated?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 23, 2011, 01:42:21 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 23, 2011, 01:42:21 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on August 23, 2011, 11:50:13 AMQuote from: KnightSlappy on August 23, 2011, 08:31:47 AM
From the UMPI AD:
We are NCAA Div. III Independent. We have also joined the USCAA as an Independent and we have left the NAIA.
I would have to imagine that with the NAIA out of the picture, UMPI will declare for the NCAA tournament.
... did the dogsled team finally arrive? When was the message dated?
You wouldn't know if from going to their website ;), but they are all hooked up with the interwebs nowadays. It simply took me until yesterday to fire off an email.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on September 27, 2011, 04:38:06 PM
Post by: gordonmann on September 27, 2011, 04:38:06 PM
I swapped emails with the NEAC's new media contact. Lancaster Bible is indeed part of the NEAC now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on September 29, 2011, 09:41:36 PM
Post by: CityD3 on September 29, 2011, 09:41:36 PM
D3hoops front page write-up said there were 13 teams in pool B last year. With three leaving, and St. Joseph's BK entering, looks like pool b will get a bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: bballlover on September 30, 2011, 01:08:48 PM
Post by: bballlover on September 30, 2011, 01:08:48 PM
Is Rust ( with the return of Wilson & Veasley ) the favorite to get the "B" bid? Dates with Maryville could loom large on both schedules.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on October 06, 2011, 11:58:36 PM
Post by: RustCollege on October 06, 2011, 11:58:36 PM
Quote from: bballlover on September 30, 2011, 01:08:48 PMshould be
Is Rust ( with the return of Wilson & Veasley ) the favorite to get the "B" bid? Dates with Maryville could loom large on both schedules.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2011, 01:43:10 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2011, 01:43:10 AM
It's really hard to take you seriously when you try to tell us you're going from "not even a candidate" to "should be THE favorite."
You can't win a playoff bid on a message board.
You can't win a playoff bid on a message board.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on October 07, 2011, 02:31:19 PM
Post by: RustCollege on October 07, 2011, 02:31:19 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on October 07, 2011, 01:43:10 AMPat you really need to come watch us play and then maybe you can give us our respect....17-8 last year just to let you know
It's really hard to take you seriously when you try to tell us you're going from "not even a candidate" to "should be THE favorite."
You can't win a playoff bid on a message board.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on December 07, 2011, 01:25:21 PM
Post by: CityD3 on December 07, 2011, 01:25:21 PM
So will there be a pool B bid? If so, who's in the running?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 07, 2011, 02:21:20 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 07, 2011, 02:21:20 PM
The Championship Manual has come out yet, but it looks like there will be one bid.
I have the eligible teams as:
Nebraska Wesleyan
St. Josephs (Bklyn.)
Maine-Presque Isle
Maryville (Tenn.)
Rust
Finlandia
UC Santa Cruz
North Central (Minn.)
LaGrange
Huntingdon
Piedmont
I have the eligible teams as:
Nebraska Wesleyan
St. Josephs (Bklyn.)
Maine-Presque Isle
Maryville (Tenn.)
Rust
Finlandia
UC Santa Cruz
North Central (Minn.)
LaGrange
Huntingdon
Piedmont
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 02:47:34 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 02:47:34 PM
Having been to Presque Isle, Maine several times... I can tell you that it is amazing a team that far out in terms of transportation and distance to other Division III teams is able to maintain a program. They get stuck playing other Maine-system schools like Machais - still a 3 to 4 hour drive depending on weather. So hats off to them for giving this a real go.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on December 07, 2011, 03:00:17 PM
Post by: David Collinge on December 07, 2011, 03:00:17 PM
Presque Isle is no more remote, in D3 terms, than Whitworth or Sul Ross St., and they seem to do just fine.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 03:28:23 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 03:28:23 PM
David... it is far more remote than you realize! :-) If Loring Air Force Base was still in action, it might be a bit more interesting.
Closest airport is Bangor... and barely anyone flies out of there and you are hoping and skipping through other airports.
Interstate starts down in Houlton, so you are driving two-lane Route 1 until you get there.
Luckily, the closest D3 school is in Bangor (Husson)... so that helps. :-)
Closest airport is Bangor... and barely anyone flies out of there and you are hoping and skipping through other airports.
Interstate starts down in Houlton, so you are driving two-lane Route 1 until you get there.
Luckily, the closest D3 school is in Bangor (Husson)... so that helps. :-)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 07, 2011, 08:21:26 PM
Post by: smedindy on December 07, 2011, 08:21:26 PM
Have you tried to go to Alpine, TX? You fly into El Paso or Midland then go about 3 1/2 hours.
/wow I sounded like Ralph there.
I love Bangor, and I'd love to go back.
And I love driving on US1, for the history and the fact it's NO interstate. Interstates? Feh. I need to get to the beginning of US1, especially since I just was at the other end of it Thanksgiving weekend.
/wow I sounded like Ralph there.
I love Bangor, and I'd love to go back.
And I love driving on US1, for the history and the fact it's NO interstate. Interstates? Feh. I need to get to the beginning of US1, especially since I just was at the other end of it Thanksgiving weekend.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 08:39:01 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 08:39:01 PM
Certainly haven't been to TX but traveled pretty extensively in that region and know the distances.
All I can tell you is that Bangor is so difficult to fly into... it is easier to drive from Baltimore to Baileyville (formerly Woodland near Calais) then consider flying into Baltimore... or further more flying into Portland and driving from there (which would be that 3 1/2 to 4 hour comparison).
Also, a note... basketball team has to deal with tough Maine winters, versus Texas ;-).
All in good fun.
All I can tell you is that Bangor is so difficult to fly into... it is easier to drive from Baltimore to Baileyville (formerly Woodland near Calais) then consider flying into Baltimore... or further more flying into Portland and driving from there (which would be that 3 1/2 to 4 hour comparison).
Also, a note... basketball team has to deal with tough Maine winters, versus Texas ;-).
All in good fun.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2011, 08:41:29 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2011, 08:41:29 PM
d-mac beat me to it on the season - for a winter sport, I'd say no one is as isolated as UMPI (Finlandia might be their nearest competition)! I'm surprised they get nearly all their games in (even if we often didn't hear the results for weeks!)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 07, 2011, 09:00:16 PM
Post by: John Gleich on December 07, 2011, 09:00:16 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2011, 08:41:29 PM
d-mac beat me to it on the season - for a winter sport, I'd say no one is as isolated as UMPI (Finlandia might be their nearest competition)! I'm surprised they get nearly all their games in (even if we often didn't hear the results for weeks!)
I can't speak to UMPI, but I went to Michigan Tech for a year (right across Portage Lake from Finlandia) and they're just used to the snow... they have the machinery to deal with it.
To contrast, it's much more common for a place like Nashville to shut down with an inch of snow than for the U.P. to shut down with anything less than... I dunno... 18 inches? (That's at one time... the year I was there, we got 229 inches. Just about average...)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 07, 2011, 09:01:30 PM
Post by: smedindy on December 07, 2011, 09:01:30 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 08:39:01 PM
Certainly haven't been to TX but traveled pretty extensively in that region and know the distances.
All I can tell you is that Bangor is so difficult to fly into... it is easier to drive from Baltimore to Baileyville (formerly Woodland near Calais) then consider flying into Baltimore... or further more flying into Portland and driving from there (which would be that 3 1/2 to 4 hour comparison).
Also, a note... basketball team has to deal with tough Maine winters, versus Texas ;-).
All in good fun.
Texas you just have to deal with...Texas.
Having lived in MN for a few years, snow is nothing to them. I don't think the PI guys notice it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 09:30:42 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 09:30:42 PM
OK... I know snow is nothing... sheesh... I lived in Chicago as a kid and in Down East Maine... they might be used to snow... but that doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.
I will now repeat... all in good fun :-)
I will now repeat... all in good fun :-)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 07, 2011, 10:11:14 PM
Post by: smedindy on December 07, 2011, 10:11:14 PM
I know Dave. I live in FL now and if they see a flake I-95 will be backed up from the Treasure Coast to the Rickenbacker Causeway!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2011, 10:35:59 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 07, 2011, 10:35:59 PM
Quote from: smedindy on December 07, 2011, 09:01:30 PM;)Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 07, 2011, 08:39:01 PM
Certainly haven't been to TX but traveled pretty extensively in that region and know the distances.
All I can tell you is that Bangor is so difficult to fly into... it is easier to drive from Baltimore to Baileyville (formerly Woodland near Calais) then consider flying into Baltimore... or further more flying into Portland and driving from there (which would be that 3 1/2 to 4 hour comparison).
Also, a note... basketball team has to deal with tough Maine winters, versus Texas ;-).
All in good fun.
Texas you just have to deal with...Texas.
Having lived in MN for a few years, snow is nothing to them. I don't think the PI guys notice it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on December 07, 2011, 11:29:50 PM
Post by: sac on December 07, 2011, 11:29:50 PM
Doesn't Colorado College win the isolation argument every year?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2011, 12:06:39 AM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2011, 12:06:39 AM
Quote from: PointSpecial on December 07, 2011, 09:00:16 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2011, 08:41:29 PM
d-mac beat me to it on the season - for a winter sport, I'd say no one is as isolated as UMPI (Finlandia might be their nearest competition)! I'm surprised they get nearly all their games in (even if we often didn't hear the results for weeks!)
I can't speak to UMPI, but I went to Michigan Tech for a year (right across Portage Lake from Finlandia) and they're just used to the snow... they have the machinery to deal with it.
To contrast, it's much more common for a place like Nashville to shut down with an inch of snow than for the U.P. to shut down with anything less than... I dunno... 18 inches? (That's at one time... the year I was there, we got 229 inches. Just about average...)
I hear ya - I was in Birmingham (AL) one time when two inches fell - I'm trying to drive normally, everyone else is utterly freaked out! For Finlandia, I was forgetting that the NCAA finally showed common sense and moved them to the West. EVERY Great Lakes opponent was over 400 miles away and required a crossing of the Big Mac (regardless of equipment, can be VERY dicey in mid-winter)! ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 08:33:46 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 08:33:46 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2011, 12:06:39 AMQuote from: PointSpecial on December 07, 2011, 09:00:16 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2011, 08:41:29 PM
d-mac beat me to it on the season - for a winter sport, I'd say no one is as isolated as UMPI (Finlandia might be their nearest competition)! I'm surprised they get nearly all their games in (even if we often didn't hear the results for weeks!)
I can't speak to UMPI, but I went to Michigan Tech for a year (right across Portage Lake from Finlandia) and they're just used to the snow... they have the machinery to deal with it.
To contrast, it's much more common for a place like Nashville to shut down with an inch of snow than for the U.P. to shut down with anything less than... I dunno... 18 inches? (That's at one time... the year I was there, we got 229 inches. Just about average...)
I hear ya - I was in Birmingham (AL) one time when two inches fell - I'm trying to drive normally, everyone else is utterly freaked out! For Finlandia, I was forgetting that the NCAA finally showed common sense and moved them to the West. EVERY Great Lakes opponent was over 400 miles away and required a crossing of the Big Mac (regardless of equipment, can be VERY dicey in mid-winter)! ;)
Big Mac is not the preferred nomenclature. Mighty Mac, please.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 08, 2011, 11:35:29 AM
Post by: John Gleich on December 08, 2011, 11:35:29 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 08:33:46 AMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2011, 12:06:39 AMQuote from: PointSpecial on December 07, 2011, 09:00:16 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2011, 08:41:29 PM
d-mac beat me to it on the season - for a winter sport, I'd say no one is as isolated as UMPI (Finlandia might be their nearest competition)! I'm surprised they get nearly all their games in (even if we often didn't hear the results for weeks!)
I can't speak to UMPI, but I went to Michigan Tech for a year (right across Portage Lake from Finlandia) and they're just used to the snow... they have the machinery to deal with it.
To contrast, it's much more common for a place like Nashville to shut down with an inch of snow than for the U.P. to shut down with anything less than... I dunno... 18 inches? (That's at one time... the year I was there, we got 229 inches. Just about average...)
I hear ya - I was in Birmingham (AL) one time when two inches fell - I'm trying to drive normally, everyone else is utterly freaked out! For Finlandia, I was forgetting that the NCAA finally showed common sense and moved them to the West. EVERY Great Lakes opponent was over 400 miles away and required a crossing of the Big Mac (regardless of equipment, can be VERY dicey in mid-winter)! ;)
Big Mac is not the preferred nomenclature. Mighty Mac, please.
Gosh, don't all the Trolls know the name of the bridge that they live under...?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2011, 11:45:09 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2011, 11:45:09 AM
WOW... it just got as chilly as a winter's wind off the Mighty Mac! That brings back memories... :-)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: John Gleich on December 08, 2011, 12:37:04 PM
Post by: John Gleich on December 08, 2011, 12:37:04 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 08, 2011, 11:45:09 AM
WOW... it just got as chilly as a winter's wind off the Mighty Mac! That brings back memories... :-)
I'm pretty sure that their terms like Troll were endearing... Being from Illinois myself, they called me a FIB... Fabulous Illinois Bucko, or something like that... ;) :) :o
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
Better a Troll than a Yooper.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2011, 04:15:44 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2011, 04:15:44 PM
Yeah, this troll knows it is the 'Mighty Mac'; calling it the 'Big Mac' instead is an inside joke with my sons. I must have been hungry when I posted! ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on December 08, 2011, 06:38:33 PM
Post by: smedindy on December 08, 2011, 06:38:33 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
Better a Troll than a Yooper.
***AHEM***
My girlfriend is from Houghton and went to Northern Michigan. I wouldn't mess with her. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 07:49:04 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 07:49:04 PM
Quote from: smedindy on December 08, 2011, 06:38:33 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 01:09:36 PM
Better a Troll than a Yooper.
***AHEM***
My girlfriend is from Houghton and went to Northern Michigan. I wouldn't mess with her. ;)
My parents both graduated from Michigan Tech, so I'm prepared to deal with it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2011, 07:54:22 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 09, 2011, 07:54:22 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 08, 2011, 08:33:46 AMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 08, 2011, 12:06:39 AMQuote from: PointSpecial on December 07, 2011, 09:00:16 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on December 07, 2011, 08:41:29 PM
d-mac beat me to it on the season - for a winter sport, I'd say no one is as isolated as UMPI (Finlandia might be their nearest competition)! I'm surprised they get nearly all their games in (even if we often didn't hear the results for weeks!)
I can't speak to UMPI, but I went to Michigan Tech for a year (right across Portage Lake from Finlandia) and they're just used to the snow... they have the machinery to deal with it.
To contrast, it's much more common for a place like Nashville to shut down with an inch of snow than for the U.P. to shut down with anything less than... I dunno... 18 inches? (That's at one time... the year I was there, we got 229 inches. Just about average...)
I hear ya - I was in Birmingham (AL) one time when two inches fell - I'm trying to drive normally, everyone else is utterly freaked out! For Finlandia, I was forgetting that the NCAA finally showed common sense and moved them to the West. EVERY Great Lakes opponent was over 400 miles away and required a crossing of the Big Mac (regardless of equipment, can be VERY dicey in mid-winter)! ;)
Big Mac is not the preferred nomenclature. Mighty Mac, please.
I got buddies who died face down in the muck so that you and I could enjoy this
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 12, 2011, 09:25:02 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 12, 2011, 09:25:02 AM
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/sports+and+championship/general+information/championships+administration/basketball+pre-championship+manual
The pre-championship manual has been released.
I see some errors, but a big takeaway is the Home/Away multiplier has been changed from 1.4/0.6 to 1.25/0.75. Yay!
The pre-championship manual has been released.
I see some errors, but a big takeaway is the Home/Away multiplier has been changed from 1.4/0.6 to 1.25/0.75. Yay!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on December 12, 2011, 04:53:07 PM
Post by: oldchap on December 12, 2011, 04:53:07 PM
I'm a little confused as to the status of Chapman University. They were accepted this year into the SCIAC, although I understand that they weren't eligible to participate in Conference play until next year, and therefore do not qualify for a Pool A berth.
In the last several years, as an Independent, they were a Pool B contender. This year, I thought that being officially part of the SCIAC although not participating in Conference play, Chapman would have been removed from Pool B contention but still eligible for Pool C.
However, I see from the manual that they are counted as one of the 5 Pool B candidates in the West region.
Is this correct? Can anyone enlighten me on the process?
In the last several years, as an Independent, they were a Pool B contender. This year, I thought that being officially part of the SCIAC although not participating in Conference play, Chapman would have been removed from Pool B contention but still eligible for Pool C.
However, I see from the manual that they are counted as one of the 5 Pool B candidates in the West region.
Is this correct? Can anyone enlighten me on the process?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:37:16 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:37:16 AM
QuoteWednesday, February 8. First of three regional rankings released.
Wednesday, February 15. Second regional ranking.
Wednesday, February 22. Third and final regional ranking.
Region # of Eligible Team/Bracket Ratio # of RankedTeams
Atlantic Region 31/6.5 5 (Rounded up 32.5=5)
East Region 37/6.5 6 (Rounded up 39=6)
Great Lakes Region 42/6.5 6 (Truncated 39=6)
Mid-Atlantic Region 60/6.5 9 (Truncated 58.5=9)
Midwest Region 50/6.5 8 (Rounded up 52=8)
Northeast Region 75/6.5 12 (Rounded up 78=12)
South Region 50/6.5 8 (Rounded up 52=8)
West Region 60/6.5 9 (Truncated 58.5 =9)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Pool B I count 11.
St Joseph's Brooklyn -- Atlantic
UMaine Presque Isle Northeast
GSAC -4 South (Maryville, LaGrange, Piedmont and Huntingdon)
Rust South
North Central West
Neb Wesleyan West
Finlandia West (any team in the West Evaluation Region plus Admin Region #3 is in-region)
UC-Santa Cruz West
St Joseph's Brooklyn -- Atlantic
UMaine Presque Isle Northeast
GSAC -4 South (Maryville, LaGrange, Piedmont and Huntingdon)
Rust South
North Central West
Neb Wesleyan West
Finlandia West (any team in the West Evaluation Region plus Admin Region #3 is in-region)
UC-Santa Cruz West
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2011, 08:17:12 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2011, 08:17:12 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Pool B I count 11.
St Joseph's Brooklyn -- Atlantic
UMaine Presque Isle Northeast
GSAC -4 South (Maryville, LaGrange, Piedmont and Huntingdon)
Rust South
North Central West
Neb Wesleyan West
Finlandia West (any team in the West Evaluation Region plus Admin Region #3 is in-region)
UC-Santa Cruz West
Another situation that would be greatly improved if 'adjacent states' were added to the in-region criteria. Finlandia could be moved back to the GL Region (geographically they don't belong in the West), but they could still play Minnesota and (even more) Wisconsin teams in regional play.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 06:25:59 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 06:25:59 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2011, 08:17:12 AMFinlandia plays 3 teams that are in the Great Lakes Region.Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Pool B I count 11.
St Joseph's Brooklyn -- Atlantic
UMaine Presque Isle Northeast
GSAC -4 South (Maryville, LaGrange, Piedmont and Huntingdon)
Rust South
North Central West
Neb Wesleyan West
Finlandia West (any team in the West Evaluation Region plus Admin Region #3 is in-region)
UC-Santa Cruz West
Another situation that would be greatly improved if 'adjacent states' were added to the in-region criteria. Finlandia could be moved back to the GL Region (geographically they don't belong in the West), but they could still play Minnesota and (even more) Wisconsin teams in regional play.
They play 15 teams that are conventionally in the West Region and get credit for the 3 lower peninsula schools in Administrative Region #3 to make 18 West Region Games.
I like the assigning of Finlandia Men to the West Region.
Adding the "adjacent states" to the "in-region" list would add another layer over and above the 200-mile radius rule to the criteria.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2011, 10:47:02 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2011, 10:47:02 PM
An adjacent state rule would (more or less) eliminate the 200 mile rule. Pat brought an area around Maryland to my attention that would still likely need the 200 mile rule, but adjacent states would more fairly eliminate the 'edges' of the regions.
Calvin 'should' be in the midwest region, but they're not. This would help Calvin find regional games as well.
Calvin 'should' be in the midwest region, but they're not. This would help Calvin find regional games as well.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: oldchap on December 13, 2011, 11:16:55 PM
Post by: oldchap on December 13, 2011, 11:16:55 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 13, 2011, 12:44:44 AM
Pool B I count 11.
St Joseph's Brooklyn -- Atlantic
UMaine Presque Isle Northeast
GSAC -4 South (Maryville, LaGrange, Piedmont and Huntingdon)
Rust South
North Central West
Neb Wesleyan West
Finlandia West (any team in the West Evaluation Region plus Admin Region #3 is in-region)
UC-Santa Cruz West
I'm sorry if I haven't followed prior discussions on this subject but Chapman is listed under Pool B in the West on Page 71 of the manual. Is this an error?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: dahlby on December 13, 2011, 11:36:34 PM
Post by: dahlby on December 13, 2011, 11:36:34 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2011, 11:38:38 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on December 13, 2011, 11:38:38 PM
Yes, I understand it to be an error as well. We'll see. Since they are official SCIAC members, they should not be eligible for Pool B, even if their conference is not making them eligible for the AQ this season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on December 21, 2011, 12:06:03 AM
Post by: Hugenerd on December 21, 2011, 12:06:03 AM
What does the NCAA do with Neb Wes? They play their fifth and final d3 game on 12/30, and if they beat Westminster (MO), they'll be undefeated (despite already losing 5 non-d3 games). Is that going to get it done for the Pool B bid?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2011, 12:36:51 AM
Post by: Gregory Sager on December 21, 2011, 12:36:51 AM
Quote from: Hugenerd on December 21, 2011, 12:06:03 AM
What does the NCAA do with Neb Wes? They play their fifth and final d3 game on 12/30, and if they beat Westminster (MO), they'll be undefeated (despite already losing 5 non-d3 games). Is that going to get it done for the Pool B bid?
As always, it depends upon whether or not NWU applies for, and the D3 Championships Committee grants, a waiver for the 50% rule. The
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Hugenerd on December 21, 2011, 06:57:06 AM
Post by: Hugenerd on December 21, 2011, 06:57:06 AM
That answers my question, I didn't remember that rule.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 21, 2011, 01:11:06 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 21, 2011, 01:11:06 PM
Depends on the schedule... and sometimes Neb. Wesleyan ends up not even applying for NCAA consideration. They may this year... but I can't imagine they would be granted an exemption with just five games - I think they would have to be closer to 8 or more to get considered for an exemption.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on January 10, 2012, 12:21:13 AM
Post by: CityD3 on January 10, 2012, 12:21:13 AM
Any ideas about the bid? Maryville still the favorite?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 10, 2012, 08:20:54 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 10, 2012, 08:20:54 AM
Quote from: CityD3 on January 10, 2012, 12:21:13 AM
Any ideas about the bid? Maryville still the favorite?
I would say it's Nebraska Wesleyan, unless they don't get granted a waiver, then it looks like a dead heat between St. Joseph's (Bklyn.) and Maryville (Tenn.). Here's what I have on the Pool B candidates:
| REG | Reg. Rnk | Team | WP | wSOS | REG | D3 | OVR | CONF |
| WE | 12 | Nebraska Wesleyan | 0.800 | 0.463 | 4-1 | 4-1 | 6-8 | IND |
| AT | 15 | St. Josephs (Bklyn.) | 0.625 | 0.419 | 5-3 | 5-5 | 7-7 | IND |
| SO | 25 | Maryville (Tenn.) | 0.545 | 0.462 | 6-5 | 8-6 | 9-6 | GSAC |
| WE | 30 | UC Santa Cruz | 0.429 | 0.558 | 3-4 | 3-4 | 7-8 | IND |
| NE | 38 | Maine-Presque Isle | 0.400 | 0.557 | 2-3 | 2-3 | 2-8 | IND |
| SO | 33 | Rust | 0.455 | 0.407 | 5-6 | 5-6 | 7-9 | IND |
| WE | 42 | Finlandia | 0.385 | 0.422 | 5-8 | 6-10 | 6-12 | IND |
| SO | 41 | LaGrange | 0.231 | 0.505 | 3-10 | 3-10 | 5-10 | GSAC |
| SO | 43 | Huntingdon | 0.125 | 0.595 | 1-7 | 2-7 | 2-9 | GSAC |
| WE | 48 | North Central (Minn.) | 0.333 | 0.370 | 4-8 | 4-8 | 4-8 | IND |
| SO | 50 | Piedmont | 0.000 | 0.489 | 0-8 | 1-8 | 3-10 | GSAC |
Actually, the committee can probably find a way to not select Nebraska Wesleyan even if they are granted a waiver. If they go to the secondary criteria, their sub-.500 overall record can be used against them even though it's mostly vs. NAIA).
Maryville probably has St. Joseph's beat in the secondary criteria at the moment, so I'd say they have "the nod", but it's close.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 10, 2012, 10:06:44 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 10, 2012, 10:06:44 AM
Maryville could win out, having played the best teams on their schedule (Emory, Wittenberg, Centre, NC Wesleyan) and entering play in the GSAC, where they are clearly the best team. Playing four freshman a lot of minutes, they seem to be figuring out what they are supposed to be doing. They rallied from 21 down with 5 minutes left in the first half to win against Greensboro by 10 in overtime and maybe have momentum to make this choice easier....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2012, 09:21:50 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 21, 2011, 01:11:06 PM
Depends on the schedule... and sometimes Neb. Wesleyan ends up not even applying for NCAA consideration.
I was under the impression that NWU declared for the D3 tourney every year. Have you heard differently from someone on the championships committee or from NWU?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2012, 07:21:45 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on January 12, 2012, 07:21:45 PM
Neb Wes is not likely to have any results versus Regionally Ranked opponents.
Maryville probably will.
Maryville probably will.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 15, 2012, 01:45:33 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 15, 2012, 01:45:33 PM
Never mind about Maryville winning out. The Scots lost at Huntingdon. Maybe now they can win out....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 15, 2012, 01:48:18 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 15, 2012, 01:48:18 PM
That's a bad, bad loss.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 15, 2012, 10:43:58 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 15, 2012, 10:43:58 PM
yep
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2012, 11:19:44 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on January 17, 2012, 11:19:44 PM
So now there's only two Pool B candidates who have winning in-region records?
To paraphrase Jerry Lee Lewis, there's a whole lotta bumblin' goin' on.
To paraphrase Jerry Lee Lewis, there's a whole lotta bumblin' goin' on.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 18, 2012, 11:18:59 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 18, 2012, 11:18:59 AM
Maryville has a really strong freshman class with 4 frosh playing many minutes and 6 key people playing with some kind of physical limitations (recovering from knee surgeries, stress fracture, etc.). Nobody is offering this as an excuse but it may explain a record that sure looks bumblin'.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 18, 2012, 11:54:24 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on January 18, 2012, 11:54:24 AM
Quote from: scottiedoug on January 18, 2012, 11:18:59 AM
Maryville has a really strong freshman class with 4 frosh playing many minutes and 6 key people playing with some kind of physical limitations (recovering from knee surgeries, stress fracture, etc.). Nobody is offering this as an excuse but it may explain a record that sure looks bumblin'.
I wouldn't mind a Pool B clause that requires teams to be .500 in regional play to be eligible. If none are eligible, then it goes to Pool C.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on January 18, 2012, 12:00:09 PM
Post by: smedindy on January 18, 2012, 12:00:09 PM
It makes sense, but where there's a rule, there's a waiver. You wonder how much teeth that rule would have in the long run.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on January 19, 2012, 11:18:42 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on January 19, 2012, 11:18:42 AM
I think such a rule makes sense on the face of it but pool B exists in large part because there are teams that by geography find it hard to schedule teams in region or anywhere....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2012, 02:07:20 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 29, 2012, 02:07:20 PM
If you have questions about the Bumblin' B's... tonight you should tune into Hoopsville. Men's National Committee Chair Ken Schumann will join us to talk about the upcoming regional rankings (February 8th) and the slight changes in the selection process this year.
Show runs from 7 - 9 PM EST.
And don't forget to follow us on any of our platforms:
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #hoopsville (now over 900 followers)
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
Ustream: www.ustream.tv/channel/hoopsville (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/hoopsville)
Show runs from 7 - 9 PM EST.
And don't forget to follow us on any of our platforms:
Twitter: @d3hoopsville (http://www.twitter.com/d3hoopsville) or #hoopsville (now over 900 followers)
Website: www.d3hoopsville.com (http://www.d3hoopsville.com)
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Hoopsville (http://www.facebook.com/Hoopsville)
Email: hoopsville@d3hoops.com
Ustream: www.ustream.tv/channel/hoopsville (http://www.ustream.tv/channel/hoopsville)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2012, 10:47:13 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on January 30, 2012, 10:47:13 PM
If you missed Hoopsville last night and the chat with MBB Championship Committee Chair Ken Schumann, here is the link to the archive:
http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/jan29 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/jan29)
http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/jan29 (http://www.d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2011-12/jan29)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Titan Q on February 08, 2012, 11:25:41 PM
Post by: Titan Q on February 08, 2012, 11:25:41 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2012, 09:21:50 PMQuote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 21, 2011, 01:11:06 PM
Depends on the schedule... and sometimes Neb. Wesleyan ends up not even applying for NCAA consideration.
I was under the impression that NWU declared for the D3 tourney every year. Have you heard differently from someone on the championships committee or from NWU?
I drove across town to my first Nebraska Wesleyan game this evening (vs Hastings). I spoke to someone in their Athletics department who said that NWU declared for NAIA II post-season competition in both men's and women's basketball before the season started. He said they are just in a tough spot, unable to play enough D3 games. He also mentioned that they'd love to get into the Iowa Intercollegiate, but the IIAC doesn't want them. He made it clear that Nebraska Wesleyan is very committed to being a D3 institution, but the frustration in his voice was hard to miss.
I'm not sure if NWU would be in the Pool B discussion, but they are officially not a candidate.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2012, 11:52:19 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2012, 11:52:19 PM
Thanks, Titan! And congrats on taking a team off the check-list I don't know when I might be able to take off my list.
Also, having talked to a couple of coaches recently on Hoopsville who have come through Nebraska Wesleyan, it is clear they want to be an NCAA Division III institution... if Colorado College can enter the SCAC... maybe that could be a place in the future for Nebraska Wesleyan as I think the SCAC loses some members (or maybe the ASC).
Also, having talked to a couple of coaches recently on Hoopsville who have come through Nebraska Wesleyan, it is clear they want to be an NCAA Division III institution... if Colorado College can enter the SCAC... maybe that could be a place in the future for Nebraska Wesleyan as I think the SCAC loses some members (or maybe the ASC).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2012, 05:01:18 AM
Post by: magicman on February 09, 2012, 05:01:18 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on February 08, 2012, 11:25:41 PMQuote from: Gregory Sager on January 10, 2012, 09:21:50 PMQuote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 21, 2011, 01:11:06 PM
Depends on the schedule... and sometimes Neb. Wesleyan ends up not even applying for NCAA consideration.
I was under the impression that NWU declared for the D3 tourney every year. Have you heard differently from someone on the championships committee or from NWU?
I drove across town to my first Nebraska Wesleyan game this evening (vs Hastings). I spoke to someone in their Athletics department who said that NWU declared for NAIA II post-season competition in both men's and women's basketball before the season started. He said they are just in a tough spot, unable to play enough D3 games. He also mentioned that they'd love to get into the Iowa Intercollegiate, but the IIAC doesn't want them. He made it clear that Nebraska Wesleyan is very committed to being a D3 institution, but the frustration in this voice was hard to miss.
I'm not sure if NWU would be in the Pool B discussion, but they are officially not a candidate.
I bet Maryville (Tenn.) and St. Josephs (Bklyn) were glad to hear that little tidbit of news from Titan Q. ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 09, 2012, 09:15:56 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 09, 2012, 09:15:56 AM
I'm guessing this pretty much makes Maryville our Pool B. UC Santa Cruz would beat them in an RPI race, but the committee likely wouldn't select a sub-.500 (in-region) team if they can help it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 09, 2012, 01:17:06 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 09, 2012, 01:17:06 PM
We will have to see if Maryville can harness its youth talent long enough to stay focused for most of the rest of their in-region games. It is an adventure this year. It's the Scots' last chance to get a Pool B and next year will have to play better all the time.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2012, 01:12:21 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 10, 2012, 01:12:21 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2012, 11:52:19 PM
Thanks, Titan! And congrats on taking a team off the check-list I don't know when I might be able to take off my list.
Like many Titans fans, he's seen Nebraska Wesleyan before. :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2012, 03:06:15 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 10, 2012, 03:06:15 PM
Yeah - realized after the fact that he probably took the team off his check-list already... but at least he took the gym off the list!!!
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on February 11, 2012, 05:37:10 PM
Post by: CityD3 on February 11, 2012, 05:37:10 PM
St Joseph's Brooklyn is 8-8 in NCAA with a lot of close losses. Their last game of the season is against atlantic region number 1, Staten Island. If they pull off this upset, any chance they get consideration?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 11, 2012, 07:21:44 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 11, 2012, 07:21:44 PM
I think Maryville is 12-7 In Region with one (LaGrange) plus GSAC tournament left of D3 games. If we count close losses, the relevant record would be better. But we don't.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2012, 09:23:45 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 11, 2012, 09:23:45 PM
Quote from: scottiedoug on February 11, 2012, 07:21:44 PM15-7 in-region will look pretty good.
I think Maryville is 12-7 In Region with one (LaGrange) plus GSAC tournament left of D3 games. If we count close losses, the relevant record would be better. But we don't.
I think that will put Murvul in for Pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 11, 2012, 11:25:40 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 11, 2012, 11:25:40 PM
With how hard it was to beat Piedmont at home today and with all the rest of the games on the road, I hope 15-7 is how it comes out....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 25, 2012, 06:13:45 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 25, 2012, 06:13:45 PM
Maryville wins Great South tourney and finishes 15-7 in region. Not a great year for the Scots but somebody has to be the B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on February 28, 2012, 01:06:40 PM
Post by: CityD3 on February 28, 2012, 01:06:40 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 07, 2011, 04:50:42 PM
With the splitting of 7 members plus Berry after 2011-12, Pool B picks up those 7 schools for 2012-13 and then Berry in 2013-14. Since the number of Pool B bids is determined before the # of Pool C bids, it is likely that the bid will come from the Pool C total in those 2 years.
They become the competition for the Pool B bid in 2012-13.
Congrats to Maryville for their pool B bid. They were the clear-cut favorite throughout. As for the future of pool B,what teams will be joining? And how many times has pool B not gotten a bid in the recent past?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2012, 05:08:47 PM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 28, 2012, 05:08:47 PM
There has not been a year in the last 10 at least without a Pool B bid. It pften has included Maryville. The last two years there has been only one, though. At least three current Pool B teams (Maryville, Piedmont, LaGrange) will be in the USA South next year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2012, 06:51:52 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2012, 06:51:52 PM
Quote from: CityD3 on February 28, 2012, 01:06:40 PMAs for the future of pool B,what teams will be joining?
The newly-formed SAA (Berry, Birmingham Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethorpe, Rhodes, and Sewanee) will be entering the Pool B mix next season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: scottiedoug on February 29, 2012, 09:25:23 AM
Post by: scottiedoug on February 29, 2012, 09:25:23 AM
We may have to change the name of this thread...a couple of those teams are not usually bumblin'
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 29, 2012, 09:40:32 AM
Post by: ronk on February 29, 2012, 09:40:32 AM
We didn't change it 5 years ago when Scranton was pool B. ;)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on February 29, 2012, 02:03:51 PM
Post by: CityD3 on February 29, 2012, 02:03:51 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2012, 06:51:52 PM
The newly-formed SAA (Berry, Birmingham Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethorpe, Rhodes, and Sewanee) will be entering the Pool B mix next season.
SAA will not have an AQ? Will they eventually?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2012, 02:06:52 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 29, 2012, 02:06:52 PM
Quote from: CityD3 on February 29, 2012, 02:03:51 PMQuote from: Gregory Sager on February 28, 2012, 06:51:52 PM
The newly-formed SAA (Berry, Birmingham Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethorpe, Rhodes, and Sewanee) will be entering the Pool B mix next season.
SAA will not have an AQ? Will they eventually?
It takes three years for a new conference - or is it two? I forget, but you don't get one right away.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on February 29, 2012, 02:22:22 PM
Post by: ronk on February 29, 2012, 02:22:22 PM
2 years for the Landmark, 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 29, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 29, 2012, 02:29:30 PM
Conferences have two years to gain a bid... they also have two years to hold onto a bid if their numbers drop below the minimum required to keep an AQ.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2012, 05:25:47 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2012, 05:25:47 PM
Congratulations to Markeith Wilson, Rust, 3rd team All South Region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on March 13, 2012, 05:33:30 PM
Post by: CityD3 on March 13, 2012, 05:33:30 PM
Congratulations to David Louison, St. Joseph's College (Brooklyn), on Atlantic region Rookie of the Year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Knightstalker on March 13, 2012, 07:55:21 PM
Post by: Knightstalker on March 13, 2012, 07:55:21 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 29, 2012, 09:40:32 AM
We didn't change it 5 years ago when Scranton was pool B. ;)
Or the year that NJCU was pool B.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: RustCollege on March 14, 2012, 02:27:09 AM
Post by: RustCollege on March 14, 2012, 02:27:09 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2012, 05:25:47 PMlong time coming
Congratulations to Markeith Wilson, Rust, 3rd team All South Region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2012, 02:29:23 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2012, 02:29:23 PM
Starting the Pool B Roundup and corrections are appreciated:
Northeast: (1) UMaine Presque Isle
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (9) SAA-7 (Birmingham-Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethrope, Rhodes, Sewanee, plus 3rd year provisional Berry), Rust, Huntingdon and 3rd-year Provisional Covenant
Great Lakes: (0) None
Midwest: (0) None
West (4) Finlandia, Neb Wesleyan, North Central MN, UC Santa Cruz
I count 15, which should mean there will be one Pool B bid.
Northeast: (1) UMaine Presque Isle
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (9) SAA-7 (Birmingham-Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethrope, Rhodes, Sewanee, plus 3rd year provisional Berry), Rust, Huntingdon and 3rd-year Provisional Covenant
Great Lakes: (0) None
Midwest: (0) None
West (4) Finlandia, Neb Wesleyan, North Central MN, UC Santa Cruz
I count 15, which should mean there will be one Pool B bid.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on November 27, 2012, 02:37:24 PM
Post by: smedindy on November 27, 2012, 02:37:24 PM
Pickin's are slim. Looks like the bid will probably come from the SAA-7.
When the SAA gets their auto bid, and Huntingdon and Covenant get acclimated in the USAC, and North Central (MN) moves to the UMAC, we've got:
UMPI, St. Joe's, Rust, Finlandia, Neb Wesleyan and UC-SC, right? That's it? And Finlandia may join a conference soon.
When the SAA gets their auto bid, and Huntingdon and Covenant get acclimated in the USAC, and North Central (MN) moves to the UMAC, we've got:
UMPI, St. Joe's, Rust, Finlandia, Neb Wesleyan and UC-SC, right? That's it? And Finlandia may join a conference soon.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2012, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2012, 02:47:00 PM
Why doesn't anyone pick up St Joe's Brooklyn?
What is the move behind Finlandia and their move to join a conference? Adding football sometime soon? Men's and Women's Ice hockey? (I honestly do not know and am seeking enlightenment.)
What is the move behind Finlandia and their move to join a conference? Adding football sometime soon? Men's and Women's Ice hockey? (I honestly do not know and am seeking enlightenment.)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on November 27, 2012, 03:58:52 PM
Post by: smedindy on November 27, 2012, 03:58:52 PM
For Finlandia, from what I read: They want to join the UMAC. They're scheduled to add football, now in 2014 (but may not). They are an associate in the WIAC for soccer, the MCHA for men's hockey and the NCHA for women's hockey.
Perhaps St. Joe's is happy in the the HVAC, but then why D3?
Perhaps St. Joe's is happy in the the HVAC, but then why D3?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on November 27, 2012, 05:39:49 PM
Post by: gordonmann on November 27, 2012, 05:39:49 PM
Valley Forge Christian and Sarah Lawrence are also provisional members. Maybe they play an independent schedule or maybe they join conferences. NEAC for VFCC and Skyline for Sarah Lawrence?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 27, 2012, 06:32:19 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 27, 2012, 06:32:19 PM
Quote from: gordonmann on November 27, 2012, 05:39:49 PM
Valley Forge Christian and Sarah Lawrence are also provisional members. Maybe they play an independent schedule or maybe they join conferences. NEAC for VFCC and Skyline for Sarah Lawrence?
I believe they don't count for Pool B until they're in year 3.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 27, 2012, 06:46:08 PM
Post by: Mr. Ypsi on November 27, 2012, 06:46:08 PM
And I don't think UMPI ever declares for d3 anymore, do they?
Question: does Pool B have any minimum number of schools to remain a separate pool? If it fell all the way to one school, I'd assume they would not be given an automatic bye into the tourney - is there a lower limit?
Question: does Pool B have any minimum number of schools to remain a separate pool? If it fell all the way to one school, I'd assume they would not be given an automatic bye into the tourney - is there a lower limit?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 27, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 27, 2012, 09:16:43 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 27, 2012, 06:46:08 PM
And I don't think UMPI ever declares for d3 anymore, do they?
Question: does Pool B have any minimum number of schools to remain a separate pool? If it fell all the way to one school, I'd assume they would not be given an automatic bye into the tourney - is there a lower limit?
I think it's nine point something ( rounded up).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 11:06:32 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 11:06:32 AM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on November 27, 2012, 09:16:43 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 27, 2012, 06:46:08 PM
And I don't think UMPI ever declares for d3 anymore, do they?
Question: does Pool B have any minimum number of schools to remain a separate pool? If it fell all the way to one school, I'd assume they would not be given an automatic bye into the tourney - is there a lower limit?
I think it's nine point something ( rounded up).
Same ratio as the Pool C... 6.something?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 11:09:21 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 11:09:21 AM
According to everything I am reading on UMPI's website, they are a Division III member along with the USCAA. They even tout Division III Independents (www.d3independents.org (http://www.d3independents.org))... so they should count.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2012, 11:26:01 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2012, 11:26:01 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 11:06:32 AMQuote from: KnightSlappy on November 27, 2012, 09:16:43 PMQuote from: Mr. Ypsi on November 27, 2012, 06:46:08 PM
And I don't think UMPI ever declares for d3 anymore, do they?
Question: does Pool B have any minimum number of schools to remain a separate pool? If it fell all the way to one school, I'd assume they would not be given an automatic bye into the tourney - is there a lower limit?
I think it's nine point something ( rounded up).
Same ratio as the Pool C... 6.something?
It's actually the same as the Pool A access ratio (Pool B can be thought of as the Pool A for those that don't belong to a Pool A conference).
So it's the number of schools in AQ conferences divided by the number of AQ conferences.
Last year it was 392 (405 eligible D3's minus the 13 Pool B's) divided by 42 AQ conferences = 9.3 Pool B access ratio.
They round that number up, so 10 got them the 1st bid and 19 would have gotten them a 2nd bid.
The math is very slightly different this year (as the number of teams is slightly different), but the final numbers are the same. With 15 Pool B's, they'll get one bid.
I have 407 D3's minus 15 Pool B's = 392 Pool A teams. We still should have 42 Pool A eligible conferences which means we have the same 9.3 Pool B access ratio.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on November 28, 2012, 11:51:29 AM
Post by: ronk on November 28, 2012, 11:51:29 AM
So, does the 9.3 ratio mean that you need at least 11 pool B schools to get 1 bid since 9.3% X 10 < 1.0?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 12:03:38 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 12:03:38 PM
Sorry... I always confused the 9.3 and the 6.5 - the last being the overall number of places in the tournament and thus number of teams regionally ranked in each region.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 12:07:03 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 12:07:03 PM
Probably already mentioned, but just in case:
Last year's Pool B's where:
St. Joseph's College (Brooklyn)
University of Maine, Presque Isle
Huntingdon College
LaGrange College
Maryville College (Tennessee)
Piedmont College
Rust College
University of California, Santa Cruz
Chapman University
Findlandia University
Nebraska Wesleyan University
North Central University
Last year's Pool B's where:
St. Joseph's College (Brooklyn)
University of Maine, Presque Isle
Huntingdon College
LaGrange College
Maryville College (Tennessee)
Piedmont College
Rust College
University of California, Santa Cruz
Chapman University
Findlandia University
Nebraska Wesleyan University
North Central University
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2012, 12:43:12 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2012, 12:43:12 PM
Quote from: ronk on November 28, 2012, 11:51:29 AM
So, does the 9.3 ratio mean that you need at least 11 pool B schools to get 1 bid since 9.3% X 10 < 1.0?
No, the 9.3 access ratio means you need 9.3 Pool B teams (rounded up to the nearest whole number) per Pool B bid. So bids would come at 10, 19, 28, 38, 47, 56, 66... teams. The NCAA often confuses ratios and percentages in their handbook, but they're not the same thing. 9.3:1 is not 9.3%
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 04:27:33 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 04:27:33 PM
Just to clarify... for the NCAA tournament in Division III (and elsewhere except for D1 basketball and maybe others), the ratio for tournament slots is 6.5 teams to 1 slot. Thus, Division III women are maxed out at 64 and Division III men are currently at 62.
Now, that 6.5:1 ratio is also used to determine how many teams in each region will be regionally ranked. Thus why the Northeast has a TON and the East has barely any. (Of course, I am talking about publicly ranked... other teams to get ranked outside of the prerequisite number, we just don't see them).
The 9.3:1 ratio comes into how the remaining bids for Pool B and C are determined. AQ's already take up a vast majority of the 62 slots on the men's side, so there has to be a different ratio for the Pool B and Pool C bids. This is determined by how KnightSlappy has already demonstrated.
The question of what happens if Pool B gets "too small" is a good one and one I will actually try and get an answer to in the near future.
Now, that 6.5:1 ratio is also used to determine how many teams in each region will be regionally ranked. Thus why the Northeast has a TON and the East has barely any. (Of course, I am talking about publicly ranked... other teams to get ranked outside of the prerequisite number, we just don't see them).
The 9.3:1 ratio comes into how the remaining bids for Pool B and C are determined. AQ's already take up a vast majority of the 62 slots on the men's side, so there has to be a different ratio for the Pool B and Pool C bids. This is determined by how KnightSlappy has already demonstrated.
The question of what happens if Pool B gets "too small" is a good one and one I will actually try and get an answer to in the near future.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 28, 2012, 04:54:14 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 28, 2012, 04:27:33 PM
Just to clarify... for the NCAA tournament in Division III (and elsewhere except for D1 basketball and maybe others), the ratio for tournament slots is 6.5 teams to 1 slot. Thus, Division III women are maxed out at 64 and Division III men are currently at 62.
Now, that 6.5:1 ratio is also used to determine how many teams in each region will be regionally ranked. Thus why the Northeast has a TON and the East has barely any. (Of course, I am talking about publicly ranked... other teams to get ranked outside of the prerequisite number, we just don't see them).
The 9.3:1 ratio comes into how the remaining bids for Pool B and C are determined. AQ's already take up a vast majority of the 62 slots on the men's side, so there has to be a different ratio for the Pool B and Pool C bids. This is determined by how KnightSlappy has already demonstrated.
The question of what happens if Pool B gets "too small" is a good one and one I will actually try and get an answer to in the near future.
Pool C is really just determined by (# of teams / 6.5) - Pool A - Pool B
If Pool B gets "too small" (under 10, currently) then they simply don't get a bid and are lumped in with Pool C.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2012, 05:01:17 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 28, 2012, 05:01:17 PM
I always think of Pool B as being (Pool A eligible teams / automatic bids awarded) * Pool B eligible teams.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on December 01, 2012, 01:33:53 PM
Post by: CityD3 on December 01, 2012, 01:33:53 PM
St. Joseph's-Brooklyn beats Apprentice School last night to get to 5-2. Apprentice School took Cabrini to overtime a couple of weeks ago. A non-NCAA win, but an impressive one nevertheless
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2013, 11:07:05 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2013, 11:07:05 AM
Over on the Pool C board, algernon has identified Centre in his South Region Ranking. This is the only Pool B that I have seen named in the Rankings that posters are projecting.
They, or the SAA tourney winner, probably has the inside track on the Pool B pick.
They, or the SAA tourney winner, probably has the inside track on the Pool B pick.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 04, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 04, 2013, 11:29:08 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 04, 2013, 11:07:05 AM
Over on the Pool C board, algernon has identified Centre in his South Region Ranking. This is the only Pool B that I have seen named in the Rankings that posters are projecting.
They, or the SAA tourney winner, probably has the inside track on the Pool B pick.
I only see Centre and Birmingham-Southern in the picture (winning percentage/SOS)
Centre (0.714/0.506)
Birmingham-Southern (0.737/.441)
BSU won the first meeting, they play next on Wednesday. Winner wins Pool B perhaps
The next closest is probably Rhodes (.625/.484) they've beaten Birmingham-Southern twice, but they need to make a run to get into the mix.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 09, 2013, 11:51:35 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 09, 2013, 11:51:35 AM
Centre beat Birmingham-Southern on Friday. I think they pretty much have the Pool B bid wrapped up.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2013, 12:10:00 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 11, 2013, 12:10:00 PM
For those of you I know want to know, there is a change in how the NCAA is calculating the SOS numbers... and it is for the better: Men's Strength of Schedule calculations changed (http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2013/02/11/mens-strength-of-schedule-calculations-changed/)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2013, 07:47:28 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 23, 2013, 07:47:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on November 27, 2012, 02:29:23 PMI count 14 teams in Pool B. The bid probably goes to the best team from the SAA.
Starting the Pool B Roundup and corrections are appreciated:
Northeast: (1) UMaine Presque Isle
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (9) SAA-7 (Birmingham-Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethrope, Rhodes, Sewanee, plus 3rd year provisional Berry), Rust, Huntingdon and 3rd-year Provisional Covenant
Great Lakes: (0) None
Midwest: (0) None
West (3) Finlandia, Neb Wesleyan,North Central MN, UC Santa Cruz
I count 14, which should mean there will be one Pool B bid.
Presentation only played 4 D-III schools this year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: gordonmann on April 23, 2013, 12:03:12 AM
Post by: gordonmann on April 23, 2013, 12:03:12 AM
Presentation is officially moving to the NAIA.
http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip/news/new-era-for-saints-athletics-presentation-college-officially-joins-the-naia.htm
http://www.victorysportsnetwork.com/Clip/news/new-era-for-saints-athletics-presentation-college-officially-joins-the-naia.htm
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 28, 2013, 08:45:41 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on December 28, 2013, 08:45:41 PM
Starting the Pool B Roundup and corrections are definitely appreciated:
Northeast: (0)UMaine Presque Isle Apparently going USCAA; they only play 7 D-3 games this season.
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (8) SAA-7 (Birmingham-Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethrope, Rhodes, Sewanee, plus 4th year provisional Berry) and Rust.
Great Lakes: (0) None
Midwest: (0) None
West (3 2) Finlandia (Men are playing 14 D3 games this year; the Women are in the Great South AC.), Neb Wesleyan (Did they/if they get their exemption?), UC Santa Cruz
I count12 11, which should mean there will be one Pool B bid.
The bid probably goes to the best team from the SAA.
Thanks, Dave
Northeast: (0)
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (8) SAA-7 (Birmingham-Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethrope, Rhodes, Sewanee, plus 4th year provisional Berry) and Rust.
Great Lakes: (0) None
Midwest: (0) None
West (
I count
The bid probably goes to the best team from the SAA.
Thanks, Dave
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 29, 2013, 03:54:07 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on December 29, 2013, 03:54:07 AM
Nebraska Wesleyan did not apply for an exemption from conversations I have had a few months ago. Those exemptions are made by May for the upcoming season(s).
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on February 25, 2014, 12:07:52 PM
Post by: sac on February 25, 2014, 12:07:52 PM
The tournament manual's for both the men and women have Pool B with 17 teams yet doesn't identify them.
Anybody have a clue on who those 17 teams are?
Only 11 have been identified on here, who are the other 6?
SAA Conference(8 teams)
Finlandia
UC-Santa Cruz
St. Joseph's Brooklyn
Anybody have a clue on who those 17 teams are?
Only 11 have been identified on here, who are the other 6?
SAA Conference(8 teams)
Finlandia
UC-Santa Cruz
St. Joseph's Brooklyn
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 25, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 25, 2014, 12:11:41 PM
Quote from: sac on February 25, 2014, 12:07:52 PM
The tournament manual's for both the men and women have Pool B with 17 teams yet doesn't identify them.
Anybody have a clue on who those 17 teams are?
Only 11 have been identified on here, who are the other 6?
SAA Conference(8 teams)
Finlandia
UC-Santa Cruz
St. Joseph's Brooklyn
From Appendix B:
St. Joseph’s College (Brooklyn)
State University of New York at Canton*
Sarah Lawrence College*
Valley Forge Christian College*
Maranatha Baptist Bible College
University of Maine, Presque Isle
Berry College
Birmingham-Southern College
Centre College
Covenant College
Hendrix College
Huntingdon College
Millsaps College
Oglethorpe University
Rhodes College
Rust College
University of the South
University of California, Santa Cruz
Finlandia University
Nebraska Wesleyan University
*Provisional Member
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2014, 01:50:36 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on February 25, 2014, 01:50:36 PM
Yeah. That's not an accurate list, though.
It differs for men and women because UMPI and Finlandia are in the GSAC for the women. Their men's teams are indeed Pool B.
For the men, Huntingdon should not be on that list, now a member of the USAC.
It differs for men and women because UMPI and Finlandia are in the GSAC for the women. Their men's teams are indeed Pool B.
For the men, Huntingdon should not be on that list, now a member of the USAC.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2014, 06:04:17 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2014, 06:04:17 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 28, 2013, 08:45:41 PMI still think that this list from December is the most accurate.
Starting the Pool B Roundup and corrections are definitely appreciated:
Northeast: (0)UMaine Presque IsleApparently going USCAA; they only play 7 D-3 games this season.
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (8) SAA-7 (Birmingham-Southern, Centre, Hendrix, Millsaps, Oglethrope, Rhodes, Sewanee, plus 4th year provisional Berry) and Rust.
Great Lakes: (0) None
Midwest: (0) None (Maranatha Baptist-- not enough games)
West (32) Finlandia (Men are playing 14 D3 games this year; the Women are in the Great South AC.),Neb Wesleyan (Did they/if they get their exemption?), UC Santa Cruz
I count1211, which should mean there will be one Pool B bid.
The bid probably goes to the best team from the SAA.
Thanks, Dave
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2014, 06:06:25 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2014, 06:06:25 PM
FYI - Centre probably has this selection wrapped up in a nice bow :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: HOPEful on February 27, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
Post by: HOPEful on February 27, 2014, 11:07:06 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 26, 2014, 06:06:25 PM
FYI - Centre probably has this selection wrapped up in a nice bow :)
Not only are they the best team in the group, but a pod in Danville helps alleviate the geographical issue that is Emory, as well...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2014, 01:39:18 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 27, 2014, 01:39:18 PM
Yes... I would be surprised right now if they aren't hosting based only on geography... unless we have surprises that forces other decisions.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2014, 11:10:21 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2014, 11:10:21 PM
Centre is the selection for 2014.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on March 06, 2014, 08:47:57 AM
Post by: CityD3 on March 06, 2014, 08:47:57 AM
So what happens next year to the pool B bid with the SAA getting an automatic bid??
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 06, 2014, 09:34:11 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 06, 2014, 09:34:11 AM
Quote from: CityD3 on March 06, 2014, 08:47:57 AM
So what happens next year to the pool B bid with the SAA getting an automatic bid??
Poof.
There will be 402 teams in 43 Pool A conferences, setting the Pool B ratio at 9.3 : 1. There will only be 8 Pool B teams, so there won't be a bid (would need 10).
So next year there should be 62 bids, 43 Pool A, 0 Pool B, 19 Pool C.
Adding Centenary (La.) to full membership brings the total number of teams to 410 -- which would be enough for 63 bids -- but I think they lag a year on adding to the tournament field size. If not, we would get 20 Pool C's next year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: David Collinge on March 06, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Post by: David Collinge on March 06, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Those 8 Pool B teams would then move directly into Pool C and compete for those bids. Maybe not successfully, but at least there will be access to the tournament for these independents.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: HOPEful on March 06, 2014, 10:06:23 AM
Post by: HOPEful on March 06, 2014, 10:06:23 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Those 8 Pool B teams would then move directly into Pool C and compete for those bids. Maybe not successfully, but at least there will be access to the tournament for these independents.
Me likey. The idea that teams not part of an AQ conference deserve an automatic qualifier has always eluded me... What was the point of a probationary period for the SAA when the champion defaults as the Pool B selection? Now that just about everyone is in an AQ conference, the Pool B seems about as useful as male nipples...
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 06, 2014, 11:29:45 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 06, 2014, 11:29:45 AM
Quote from: sethteater on March 06, 2014, 10:06:23 AMQuote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Those 8 Pool B teams would then move directly into Pool C and compete for those bids. Maybe not successfully, but at least there will be access to the tournament for these independents.
Me likey. The idea that teams not part of an AQ conference deserve an automatic qualifier has always eluded me... What was the point of a probationary period for the SAA when the champion defaults as the Pool B selection? Now that just about everyone is in an AQ conference, the Pool B seems about as useful as male nipples...
It happened that way, but it wasn't necessarily going to happen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2014, 03:12:04 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 06, 2014, 03:12:04 PM
Quote from: sethteater on March 06, 2014, 10:06:23 AMQuote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2014, 09:54:55 AM
Those 8 Pool B teams would then move directly into Pool C and compete for those bids. Maybe not successfully, but at least there will be access to the tournament for these independents.
Me likey. The idea that teams not part of an AQ conference deserve an automatic qualifier has always eluded me... What was the point of a probationary period for the SAA when the champion defaults as the Pool B selection? Now that just about everyone is in an AQ conference, the Pool B seems about as useful as male nipples...
Because if there were two or three conferences in that probationary period, as there have been in recent years, the tournament bids would not be "default." Really, Pool B was created to support those teams who are forced to be independent based on geography. Pool B used to be much, much larger than it is now. I think it's a good thing that it's dwindling out, but I also think it's good to have Pool B as part of the plan in case its ever again needed.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2014, 05:19:25 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2014, 05:19:25 PM
Ah... I have to check... but I believe a Pool B bid always exists for schools that do not have access to an automatic bid as an independent.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2014, 09:00:29 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2014, 09:00:29 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2014, 05:19:25 PMPlease confirm that the Pool B schools are not guaranteed at least one bid regardless how few schools are in Pool B (i. e., fewer Pool B schools than the access ratio determines for a bid). Thanks.
Ah... I have to check... but I believe a Pool B bid always exists for schools that do not have access to an automatic bid as an independent.
Two years ago, this Chapman team would have been in the mix for Pool B with the SAA schools, so it was not necessarily the SAA's by default.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2014, 01:25:41 AM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2014, 01:25:41 AM
Once upon a time there was talk about whether there should always be a Pool B as it relates to men's ice hockey. We'll have to keep an eye on this going forward.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on March 10, 2014, 08:19:58 AM
Post by: CityD3 on March 10, 2014, 08:19:58 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 09, 2014, 09:00:29 PMQuote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 06, 2014, 05:19:25 PMPlease confirm that the Pool B schools are not guaranteed at least one bid regardless how few schools are in Pool B (i. e., fewer Pool B schools than the access ratio determines for a bid). Thanks.
Ah... I have to check... but I believe a Pool B bid always exists for schools that do not have access to an automatic bid as an independent.
Two years ago, this Chapman team would have been in the mix for Pool B with the SAA schools, so it was not necessarily the SAA's by default.
If it was the case and Pool B gets a bid no matter what, only 4 teams would have to compete for a tourney spot next season???
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2014, 04:48:32 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2014, 04:48:32 PM
The basic idea of Pool B is that it is an opportunity for teams who have no chance at an automatic bid to be considered for the NCAA tournaments. By that definition, I find it hard to believe that it would go away... though, with so few numbers I can see very reasonable argument for why it should be done away with if teams fall below a threshold.
I have started down the path of trying to determine an answer several times only to run out of time or never get to where I needed to be for an answer... I will keep working.
I have started down the path of trying to determine an answer several times only to run out of time or never get to where I needed to be for an answer... I will keep working.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CityD3 on March 11, 2014, 08:18:07 PM
Post by: CityD3 on March 11, 2014, 08:18:07 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 11, 2014, 04:48:32 PM
The basic idea of Pool B is that it is an opportunity for teams who have no chance at an automatic bid to be considered for the NCAA tournaments. By that definition, I find it hard to believe that it would go away... though, with so few numbers I can see very reasonable argument for why it should be done away with if teams fall below a threshold.
I have started down the path of trying to determine an answer several times only to run out of time or never get to where I needed to be for an answer... I will keep working.
Thank you
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2014, 12:30:02 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2014, 12:30:02 PM
I couldn't find anything in the Division III Manual about official rounding rules for Pool B berth allocation, but there were apparently zero Pool B bids awarded in Hockey in 2012-13. I can't find the Pre-Championship Manual for that to confirm, but that seemed to be what D3Hockey.com indicated.
D3soccer.com says they "traditionally round down" to avoid the Pool B access ratio becoming larger than the Pool A ratio.
D3soccer.com says they "traditionally round down" to avoid the Pool B access ratio becoming larger than the Pool A ratio.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2014, 01:16:45 PM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2014, 01:16:45 PM
I think in hockey, they just award "at large" bids. Not really Pool C or Pool B. This was the first year the WIAC had its own conference. Eau Claire won the conference tournament championship but Stevens Point got the at-large bid.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/icehockey-men/article/2014-03-09/field-11-announced-2014-division-iii-mens-hockey-tournament
http://www.ncaa.com/news/icehockey-men/article/2014-03-09/field-11-announced-2014-division-iii-mens-hockey-tournament
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2014, 03:06:32 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on March 12, 2014, 03:06:32 PM
No, there is a Pool B bid in hockey. The ECAC-West and the new WIAC are Pool B. From D3hockey.com:
http://www.d3hockey.com/ncaatournament/2014/men/ncaa-field-released
http://www.d3hockey.com/ncaatournament/2014/men/ncaa-field-released
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
The ncaa release didnt really distinguish the difference. It just stated 4 at-large bids.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2014, 09:01:36 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on March 12, 2014, 09:01:36 PM
Quote from: Greek Tragedy on March 12, 2014, 05:38:18 PM
The ncaa release didnt really distinguish the difference.
This is my shocked face.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
The SAA has achieved full-membership status as a conference, leaving only 8 Pool B members for 2014-15. Consequently, there will not be a Pool B bid awarded this postseason.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: smedindy on November 12, 2014, 12:53:14 PM
Post by: smedindy on November 12, 2014, 12:53:14 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
The SAA has achieved full-membership status as a conference, leaving only 8 Pool B members for 2014-15. Consequently, there will not be a Pool B bid awarded this postseason.
I'll believe it when I see it in the Championship Manual, and then after we complain that the manual is screwed up seven ways to Sunday....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 01:03:13 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 01:03:13 PM
Quote from: smedindy on November 12, 2014, 12:53:14 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 10:46:32 AM
The SAA has achieved full-membership status as a conference, leaving only 8 Pool B members for 2014-15. Consequently, there will not be a Pool B bid awarded this postseason.
I'll believe it when I see it in the Championship Manual, and then after we complain that the manual is screwed up seven ways to Sunday....
http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/PreChamps_DIII_MBasketball_2015_Revised3.pdf
--Confirmed that 500 miles is the new in-region limit (though it calls it a 'radius', which is probably not correct).
--70% of games must be in-region in order to be eligible for at-large selection (unless school obtains a waiver).
(Finlandia, Maine-Presque Isle, and Nebraska Wesleyan have been granted waivers in MBB)
--Lists Presentation (who has been NAIA for a few years now) with the UMAC, but no mention of Northwestern (Minn.)
--Has the OWP example screwed up (Team D's revised record).
--No indication if they've corrected the application of the Home/Away Multiplier in the SOS calculation.
--"Hosting history, attendance history, and revenue potential can be considered for site selection." (This isn't a change from past years but I hadn't noticed it before).
--Recklessly inconsistent with regard to Oxford comma usage.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 12, 2014, 02:33:56 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 12, 2014, 02:33:56 PM
Yes... the SAA is eligible due to the fact they have had the minimum of seven teams each of the two year's it has existed as a conference - unlike football which had five its first year and seven its second which started the AQ clock in its second year, not its first.
As for the math... I need to send you something I have had that will show they aren't changing the math. It is what it is... the NCAA stats guys say this works and its how it will stay.
The revenue potential, you noted, has always been part of the criteria... but from what I gather a lot of the time it is used only if needed. That being said, I can throw this out there... don't bet on women/men dual hosting for school's who have first round byes. We saw this last year with Amherst and it wasn't a "mistake" by either committee. The liaisons and the NCAA decided they are going to avoid these situations from now on simply because they don't feel it works on campuses (providing the practice time, extra locker rooms, etc.). That kind of decision does fall into the criteria you have there especially when it comes to revenue and hosting history.
Remember on that 70% rule... a team can NOT count a game or more of a conference tournament. That 70% has to be your regular season schedule, period.
By the way, the men's committee chair will be my guest, probably in studio, on Hoopsville on Thursday, November 20.
As for the math... I need to send you something I have had that will show they aren't changing the math. It is what it is... the NCAA stats guys say this works and its how it will stay.
The revenue potential, you noted, has always been part of the criteria... but from what I gather a lot of the time it is used only if needed. That being said, I can throw this out there... don't bet on women/men dual hosting for school's who have first round byes. We saw this last year with Amherst and it wasn't a "mistake" by either committee. The liaisons and the NCAA decided they are going to avoid these situations from now on simply because they don't feel it works on campuses (providing the practice time, extra locker rooms, etc.). That kind of decision does fall into the criteria you have there especially when it comes to revenue and hosting history.
Remember on that 70% rule... a team can NOT count a game or more of a conference tournament. That 70% has to be your regular season schedule, period.
By the way, the men's committee chair will be my guest, probably in studio, on Hoopsville on Thursday, November 20.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 12, 2014, 03:36:48 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 12, 2014, 02:33:56 PM
As for the math... I need to send you something I have had that will show they aren't changing the math. It is what it is... the NCAA stats guys say this works and its how it will stay.
I would love to see that. You know where I stand on the matter.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 12, 2014, 02:33:56 PM
By the way, the men's committee chair will be my guest, probably in studio, on Hoopsville on Thursday, November 20.
I noticed the Men's Basketball Committee recommended to the National Committee (once again) that the final rankings be released, but they were (once again) turned down.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 12, 2014, 10:43:09 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 12, 2014, 10:43:09 PM
I asked when I was in Indy about regional rankings being released... I asked multiple people in multiple levels of championships and governance... up to Dan Dutcher... turns out basketball is in the minority in a straw poll on whether they should be released. MBB keeps making their case and people seem to be ignoring them or stat they have problems with their decisions being second guessed. I did seem to make headway with the idea of at least releasing the last set of data... making the case that if we see who is in the tournament, see the last set of data, and know everything we already know about teams winning and such... we can figure out the last regional rankings with maybe one or two mistakes. My argument being that the data is a week old (or older) and people should at least see that information to see what the committee was working with - even if the regional rankings weren't released. There seemed to be at least an agreement that wouldn't be a bad idea from someone I think could make that happen... but not sure how or if it will happen.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 13, 2014, 12:51:28 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on November 13, 2014, 12:51:28 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 12, 2014, 10:43:09 PM
I asked when I was in Indy about regional rankings being released... I asked multiple people in multiple levels of championships and governance... up to Dan Dutcher... turns out basketball is in the minority in a straw poll on whether they should be released. MBB keeps making their case and people seem to be ignoring them or stat they have problems with their decisions being second guessed. I did seem to make headway with the idea of at least releasing the last set of data... making the case that if we see who is in the tournament, see the last set of data, and know everything we already know about teams winning and such... we can figure out the last regional rankings with maybe one or two mistakes. My argument being that the data is a week old (or older) and people should at least see that information to see what the committee was working with - even if the regional rankings weren't released. There seemed to be at least an agreement that wouldn't be a bad idea from someone I think could make that happen... but not sure how or if it will happen.
Which tells me they're either (1) not confident in their ability to select teams or (2) not following the stated criteria.
If one believes in the process, follows the process, and makes defensible choices, she or he shouldn't fear the second guessing.
I'm glad men's basketball is firmly pushing for transparency. I don't always agree with their choices or process come selection time, but I'm glad they're of the mindset that this sort of openness would be a good thing.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2014, 01:05:48 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2014, 01:05:48 PM
Trust me... my explanation was simple... committees open themselves up to MORE questions by hiding the information then by releasing it. Instead of me asking about Team A and Team B being slotted where they were because I see the rankings... I am asking about ten or more teams spread out across the country because I am trying to figure out vRRO, SOS, who is at the table, etc., etc., etc. Furthermore, we tend to have more confusion when information is not released because people don't understand where they stood in the end.
My argument continued that by seeing the information and the data, we at least see what the committee was thinking and most questions stop there. Do we like what we see? Who knows. But when information is hidden; when information is kept secret in an open system, our questions become more sinister (per se) and quasi challenging because we don't understand the full scope of things. Furthermore, coaches don't understand what has happened and are left with the same, if not more, questions then we have (I gave an example of a respected coach being thoroughly confused last year for being left out - or at least not understand how other teams in his conference were ahead of him and how his questions would have at least been answered by seeing the data and the results).
I completely agree that by releasing the rankings and the data, the committees thus stand by their work. Everyone is going to get questioned about everything. But think about how few questions we had a few years ago when the final rankings were leaked out versus last year when we didn't understand a damn thing. The argument back was that the tournament and the bracket are those answers and that releasing the information of regional rankings isn't needed and only opens second guessing. My retort: the tournament information tells us actually less than the final regional rankings. I always have less questions when those are released... then when they aren't.
This is got my brain running again... may have to do an op-ed tonight on the season debut of Hoopsville! :)
My argument continued that by seeing the information and the data, we at least see what the committee was thinking and most questions stop there. Do we like what we see? Who knows. But when information is hidden; when information is kept secret in an open system, our questions become more sinister (per se) and quasi challenging because we don't understand the full scope of things. Furthermore, coaches don't understand what has happened and are left with the same, if not more, questions then we have (I gave an example of a respected coach being thoroughly confused last year for being left out - or at least not understand how other teams in his conference were ahead of him and how his questions would have at least been answered by seeing the data and the results).
I completely agree that by releasing the rankings and the data, the committees thus stand by their work. Everyone is going to get questioned about everything. But think about how few questions we had a few years ago when the final rankings were leaked out versus last year when we didn't understand a damn thing. The argument back was that the tournament and the bracket are those answers and that releasing the information of regional rankings isn't needed and only opens second guessing. My retort: the tournament information tells us actually less than the final regional rankings. I always have less questions when those are released... then when they aren't.
This is got my brain running again... may have to do an op-ed tonight on the season debut of Hoopsville! :)
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2014, 01:46:59 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on November 13, 2014, 01:46:59 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2014, 01:05:48 PM
Trust me... my explanation was simple... committees open themselves up to MORE questions by hiding the information then by releasing it. Instead of me asking about Team A and Team B being slotted where they were because I see the rankings... I am asking about ten or more teams spread out across the country because I am trying to figure out vRRO, SOS, who is at the table, etc., etc., etc. Furthermore, we tend to have more confusion when information is not released because people don't understand where they stood in the end.
The problem is that in other sports aside from baseball, basketball, football and hockey, there is no independent body holding the committees' feet to the fire. (There may be in lacrosse but I don't follow the bracketology there.) Who is calling the committee on the carpet in those sports? Coaches ... and the committee doesn't want to deal with individual coaches, and I get that.
For those who were on selection announcement calls back in the 90s and a couple years of the '00s, how it worked is the national chair read off the bracket over the phone and then opened the line up for questions. And coaches were brutal about this. I took it upon myself in those calls to be first in the queue for questions and then ask about the most controversial omission or matchup in the bracket. That way, the chair got it from a dispassionate reporter rather than an irate head coach.
Now, they don't have to sit for public questioning if we aren't putting them there. And Dave does in basketball and Frank Rossi does in football. But not releasing the data and not releasing the rankings leaves those committees open for a lot more questioning by everyone. And they are hidden because the other committees are scared to show their work and get called on it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2014, 02:44:29 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on November 13, 2014, 02:44:29 PM
Plenty of truth in that... in fact, one basketball coach I described earlier started coming to me to get answers because he wasn't getting them from his region or the national level. I agree that maybe we get more answers and the ones who don't mind revealing those answers are the ones we question because they do realize it only helps their cause (unless it's the women in years past). Coaches can be brutal and it honestly is doing everyone a disservice, including keeping information from coaches who are trying to understand everything from how to schedule better to how another team affects them without playing them, by keeping everything quiet.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 13, 2014, 02:45:31 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on November 13, 2014, 02:45:31 PM
Ultimately, the craziest thing to me is the NCAA's need to be uniform in all sports. Why not just let the individual committee decide what they're going to release? The sports themselves aren't uniform, why do their selection committees have to be?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2015, 08:46:36 PM
For the archives of the 2014-15 season... Corrections are definitely appreciated:
Northeast: (1) Pine Manor;UMaine Presque Isle USCAA Post-season
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (1) Rust.
Great Lakes: (0) None
Central: (2) Finlandia; (Maranatha Baptist to the NCCAA Post-season)
West (1) UC Santa Cruz
I count 6 at the most.
Northeast: (1) Pine Manor;
East: (0) None
Atlantic: (1) St Joseph's Brooklyn
Mid-Atlantic (0) None
South: (1) Rust.
Great Lakes: (0) None
Central: (2) Finlandia; (Maranatha Baptist to the NCCAA Post-season)
West (1) UC Santa Cruz
I count 6 at the most.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 07, 2017, 06:35:26 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 07, 2017, 06:35:26 AM
I'm resurrecting this old friend. We won't need it in 2017-2018, but it looks like we've got to make sure the engine will start for the following year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 07, 2017, 01:10:23 PM
Post by: Gregory Sager on June 07, 2017, 01:10:23 PM
I thought the same thing yesterday after reading the site's article about half of the D3 schools on the eastern seaboard deciding to play musical chairs.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 26, 2017, 12:23:03 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on June 26, 2017, 12:23:03 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 07, 2017, 06:35:26 AMWhom did we have in 2016-2017?
I'm resurrecting this old friend. We won't need it in 2017-2018, but it looks like we've got to make sure the engine will start for the following year.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2017, 01:48:36 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2017, 01:48:36 PM
No one on the men's side last year... we had one pick on the women's side due to the GAC dissolving.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 11:38:18 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 25, 2018, 11:38:18 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on June 26, 2017, 12:23:03 PMQuote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on June 07, 2017, 06:35:26 AMWhom did we have in 2016-2017?
I'm resurrecting this old friend. We won't need it in 2017-2018, but it looks like we've got to make sure the engine will start for the following year.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on June 26, 2017, 01:48:36 PMUpdating the board...New conference forming in the Mid-Atlantic for 2018-19.
No one on the men's side last year... we had one pick on the women's side due to the GAC dissolving.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2018, 11:39:00 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 25, 2018, 11:39:00 PM
Should produce a pick, but the numbers are close on whether it actually will.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 12, 2019, 03:02:54 AM
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 12, 2019, 03:02:54 AM
I think it's time to bring this up. There is a Pool B spot available this year. Who's going to take it? (Data taken from Matt Snyder (https://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-regional-rankings.html))
Likely candidate appears to be:
Gwynedd Mercy (16-8 AEC) .667/.490/0-2
A few teams in the ballpark:
Marywood (15-8 AEC; 14-8 vs D3) .636/.460/0-0
Thomas More (15-8 ACAA; 10-7 vs D3) .588/.488/1-3
Wesley (12-11 AEC; 11-10 vs D3) .524/.527/0-2
And just to include teams who aren't in the AEC for comparison:
Alfred St (13-10 ACAA; 8-8 vs D3) .500/.463/0-2
UC-Santa Cruz (14-11 Ind; 7-10 vs D3) .412/.468/0-1
Likely candidate appears to be:
Gwynedd Mercy (16-8 AEC) .667/.490/0-2
A few teams in the ballpark:
Marywood (15-8 AEC; 14-8 vs D3) .636/.460/0-0
Thomas More (15-8 ACAA; 10-7 vs D3) .588/.488/1-3
Wesley (12-11 AEC; 11-10 vs D3) .524/.527/0-2
And just to include teams who aren't in the AEC for comparison:
Alfred St (13-10 ACAA; 8-8 vs D3) .500/.463/0-2
UC-Santa Cruz (14-11 Ind; 7-10 vs D3) .412/.468/0-1
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2019, 01:05:00 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 12, 2019, 01:05:00 PM
I looked at these numbers last night unrelated to this post (hadn't seen it). I think this is Gwynedd-Mercy's to lose at this point. They have their second game against Marywood coming up this week. Win that and I think they are a lock (they will have split with Marywood as a result). Lose that and I think they need to do a little bit of damage in the conference tournament to be sure Marywood stays behind them.
Thomas More did themselves no favors with their out of conference scheduling (should have taken a note from the women's team). Everyone else don't have records that are going to allow them to be considered.
Thomas More did themselves no favors with their out of conference scheduling (should have taken a note from the women's team). Everyone else don't have records that are going to allow them to be considered.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fantastic50 on February 12, 2019, 02:39:34 PM
Post by: fantastic50 on February 12, 2019, 02:39:34 PM
I think that Thomas More is the best team among the Pool B group, and even has a lopsided win over a (temporarily) regionally-ranked team, Emory & Henry. However, I also see Gwynedd-Mercy as the likely Pool B pick, with Marywood not completely out of it yet.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2019, 10:34:07 AM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on February 13, 2019, 10:34:07 AM
The only wrench I can see is Wesley's SOS - they're on a three game win streak (over the best teams in their conference). If they go on a run and win the AEC tourney, I could see them sneaking in - especially with TMU's lack of d3 games.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 03:21:07 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 13, 2019, 03:21:07 PM
The second week Regional Rankings have been released: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-second
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2019, 08:00:14 AM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2019, 08:00:14 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on February 12, 2019, 03:02:54 AM
I think it's time to bring this up. There is a Pool B spot available this year. Who's going to take it? (Data taken from Matt Snyder (https://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/p/division-iii-mens-regional-rankings.html))
Likely candidate appears to be:
Gwynedd Mercy (16-8 AEC) .667/.490/0-2
A few teams in the ballpark:
Marywood (15-8 AEC; 14-8 vs D3) .636/.460/0-0
Thomas More (15-8 ACAA; 10-7 vs D3) .588/.488/1-3
Wesley (12-11 AEC; 11-10 vs D3) .524/.527/0-2
And just to include teams who aren't in the AEC for comparison:
Alfred St (13-10 ACAA; 8-8 vs D3) .500/.463/0-2
UC-Santa Cruz (14-11 Ind; 7-10 vs D3) .412/.468/0-1
Interesting that none of these teams would sniff a Pool C bid, which makes me kind of think they're wasting a NCAA bid on a team that isn't really worthy?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fantastic50 on February 20, 2019, 08:06:47 AM
Post by: fantastic50 on February 20, 2019, 08:06:47 AM
Conferences without enough eligible teams to secure a Pool A berth tend to be weak, and the same is true for independents, so a Pool B berth usually goes to a weak team. However, I don't think that Pool B teams are any arrange than lower ranking conference champs. Pool B does fit with the D3 philosophy of tourney access.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2019, 10:23:51 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2019, 10:23:51 AM
Quote from: fantastic50 on February 20, 2019, 08:06:47 AM+1!. I agree.
Conferences without enough eligible teams to secure a Pool A berth tend to be weak, and the same is true for independents, so a Pool B berth usually goes to a weak team. However, I don't think that Pool B teams are any arrange than lower ranking conference champs. Pool B does fit with the D3 philosophy of tourney access.
Pool B is where teams and conferences get their start. Pool B used to have many quality teams before all of the conferences started moving to Pool A. In baseball, there are several quality Pool B programs, e.g., WIAC, UAA, formerly Chapman before they joined the SCIAC.
If you want to talk about a conference that has been a real incubator for D3 programs, it would be the NEAC.
Go back and look at the programs who have been in the NEAC over the last 20 years.
You can see that the schools have gotten started there, have had success in building successful programs that provide opportunities for student athletes, and have moved onto other conferences as mission-vision goals have been re-assessed by the institution.
The worst Pool C team usually ranks out at about 60th percentile of the Pool As.
Sometimes, there are surprises when schools from really deep regions get picked and go far.
In the 2018 baseball championships, UT-Tyler from the ASC was eliminated in the first weekend of the ASC post-season tourney, basically a tie for 3rd. They packed up their gear on May 6th and went home. Many thought that they were the last Pool C picked. They get shipped to the Central Region where they beat strong programs in Aurora, Franklin, UWW, Webster, and Rhodes to go 6-1 and win to the regional.
They beat Texas Lutheran, the West Region Champ, in the Finals of the Nationals.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 11:51:04 AM
Much of what has been said could stand for my place.
When a Pool A scenario exists where automatic bids are available for those in conferences that qualify, there has to be some way for those who are either unable to find a conference home or have created a conference for themselves have some kind of access as well ... before being thrown in the heap with everyone else.
I am fine with the Pool B option in DIII. It lives up to what this division (and really the NCAA has a whole) represents. Why tell those schools there is no hope at all of ever making the tournament(s)... unless you go insane and schedule like Thomas More women?
When a Pool A scenario exists where automatic bids are available for those in conferences that qualify, there has to be some way for those who are either unable to find a conference home or have created a conference for themselves have some kind of access as well ... before being thrown in the heap with everyone else.
I am fine with the Pool B option in DIII. It lives up to what this division (and really the NCAA has a whole) represents. Why tell those schools there is no hope at all of ever making the tournament(s)... unless you go insane and schedule like Thomas More women?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2019, 12:11:24 PM
Post by: Greek Tragedy on February 20, 2019, 12:11:24 PM
I completely understand the philosophy and all that, giving everyone the chance. But why not be that Thomas More and have a difficult schedule? I'm not trying to poo poo the little guy, but it seems we're just giving this group different guidelines.
Also, I understand the AEC is a new conference, but it consists of established D3 programs coming from other conferences that were eligible for AQs. I find it strange they are thrown into Pool B status. It reminds me of when the NIIC and the LMC combined and formed the now NACC. Lakeland comes into the conference tournament as the #6 seed and beats the top three seeds on the road to win the conference tournament. No AQ though.
Also, I understand the AEC is a new conference, but it consists of established D3 programs coming from other conferences that were eligible for AQs. I find it strange they are thrown into Pool B status. It reminds me of when the NIIC and the LMC combined and formed the now NACC. Lakeland comes into the conference tournament as the #6 seed and beats the top three seeds on the road to win the conference tournament. No AQ though.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 12:19:37 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 12:19:37 PM
Because not everyone can afford to send their teams around the country ... or have a coach interested in even trying to pull it off. Look at the difference in the schedules of the two Thomas More teams for that example.
And one isn't going to dictate to another school how they are to spend their money. Schools (should) understand the landscape and plan accordingly. If they don't plan well enough (and I have a few schools that I know are surprised the Pool B situation was closer than they imagined a year ago), their mistake will be revealed.
The reason for a two-year waiting period is so that schools can't form random conferences just to get AQs and then disband them or leave for something else. It forces schools and conferences to be "real" and not temporary in the division. That is fair as well. Membership isn't going to hand out AQs to any conference that wants to form overnight for the hell of it. If you want an AQ, there needs to be a level of commitment and forward thinking on the overall plan. Not just a "hey, here's a way we can get into the tournament for next season."
And one isn't going to dictate to another school how they are to spend their money. Schools (should) understand the landscape and plan accordingly. If they don't plan well enough (and I have a few schools that I know are surprised the Pool B situation was closer than they imagined a year ago), their mistake will be revealed.
The reason for a two-year waiting period is so that schools can't form random conferences just to get AQs and then disband them or leave for something else. It forces schools and conferences to be "real" and not temporary in the division. That is fair as well. Membership isn't going to hand out AQs to any conference that wants to form overnight for the hell of it. If you want an AQ, there needs to be a level of commitment and forward thinking on the overall plan. Not just a "hey, here's a way we can get into the tournament for next season."
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:36:50 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 20, 2019, 03:36:50 PM
The third public NCAA Division III regional rankings are out: https://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2019/02/men-regional-rankings-third
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2019, 01:49:24 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 21, 2019, 01:49:24 PM
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There are just days left in the regular season and conference tournaments are in full throat. And those vying to get into the NCAA Tournament are already sitting on the proverbial "bubble."
There are two ways to keep dancing in March, either win the conference automatic qualifier (i.e. tournament in most cases) or hope one's resume is good enough to be selected. However, with upsets in conference tournaments come some nervous times for those needing the at-large avenue.
Some teams are already on the bubble, but are they in trouble?
On Thursday's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave brings in guests who either have already lost or may need to win. We also enjoy the thrill of victory. And hear from a coach in charge of off-season workouts and practices at her institution. What goes into such a job as most teams start to make the transition to next season.
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Thursday's show can be seen LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET right here: http://bit.ly/2NhkfYn (or via Facebook Live and Periscope simulcasts).
If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options to the right.
Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Cameron Hill, Trinity (Texas) women's coach
- Kristin Karat, Cedar Crest women's coach & Assistant Director for Athletic Performance (WBCA Center Court)
- Jeff Brown, Middlebury men's coach
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There are just days left in the regular season and conference tournaments are in full throat. And those vying to get into the NCAA Tournament are already sitting on the proverbial "bubble."
There are two ways to keep dancing in March, either win the conference automatic qualifier (i.e. tournament in most cases) or hope one's resume is good enough to be selected. However, with upsets in conference tournaments come some nervous times for those needing the at-large avenue.
Some teams are already on the bubble, but are they in trouble?
On Thursday's Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com), Dave brings in guests who either have already lost or may need to win. We also enjoy the thrill of victory. And hear from a coach in charge of off-season workouts and practices at her institution. What goes into such a job as most teams start to make the transition to next season.
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Thursday's show can be seen LIVE starting at 7:00 p.m. ET right here: http://bit.ly/2NhkfYn (or via Facebook Live and Periscope simulcasts).
If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options to the right.
Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- Cameron Hill, Trinity (Texas) women's coach
- Kristin Karat, Cedar Crest women's coach & Assistant Director for Athletic Performance (WBCA Center Court)
- Jeff Brown, Middlebury men's coach
If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
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Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 24, 2019, 04:07:27 PM
(https://cdn.prestosports.com/action/cdn/img/mw=710/cr=n/d=4o2h3/5qe4yd77benqfa7a.jpg)
This is it! The regular season is over. The conference titles have been handed out and 86 teams know they will be playing next week in the NCAA Division III men's and women's Championship Tournaments!
However, 42 slots need to be filled. Which programs have best positioned themselves to selected to play for a national title?
It is the biggest show of the year. Bubble teams watch anxiously. Rivals watch wondering if their rivals will make the event. Others watch because ... this is one of the best nights of the entire season.
Tune in a special episode of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) where we will make our mock selections of who will be in and who will be left out of the DIII national tournaments. Our teams of experts will make the picks using the same criteria the national committees consider.
Plus, hear, one last time before the brackets are announced, from the national committee chairs who discuss how this year's rankings and process have worked out. And hear from some teams who have already punched their tickets to the tournaments - many for the first time in program history!
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Sunday's special will hit the air at 6:00 p.m. ET right here: http://bit.ly/2XuWjWa (or via Facebook Live or Periscope simulcasts).
If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options below.
Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- John Alesi, Baruch men's coach
- Sam Atkinson, Men's National Committee Chair (Gallaudet Associate Director for Communications)
- Russ Phillips, Alfred men's coach
- Bill Curley, Emerson men's coach
- Karin Harvey, Women's National Committee Chair (Montclair State women's coach)
- Rayne Reber, Rosemont women's coach
- Lyle Jones, Bethany Lutheran women's coach
Men's Mock Selections Team:
- Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com
- Bob Quillman, IWUHoops.com
- Michael Blaine, Medaille men's coach
Women's Mock Selections Team:
- Gordon Mann, D3hoops.com
- BJ Spigelmyer, DeSales Sports Information Director
- James Wagner, CSAC Assistant Commissioner
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This is it! The regular season is over. The conference titles have been handed out and 86 teams know they will be playing next week in the NCAA Division III men's and women's Championship Tournaments!
However, 42 slots need to be filled. Which programs have best positioned themselves to selected to play for a national title?
It is the biggest show of the year. Bubble teams watch anxiously. Rivals watch wondering if their rivals will make the event. Others watch because ... this is one of the best nights of the entire season.
Tune in a special episode of Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) where we will make our mock selections of who will be in and who will be left out of the DIII national tournaments. Our teams of experts will make the picks using the same criteria the national committees consider.
Plus, hear, one last time before the brackets are announced, from the national committee chairs who discuss how this year's rankings and process have worked out. And hear from some teams who have already punched their tickets to the tournaments - many for the first time in program history!
Hoopsville (http://www.d3hoopsville.com) is presented by D3hoops.com and airs from the WBCA/NABC Studio. Sunday's special will hit the air at 6:00 p.m. ET right here: http://bit.ly/2XuWjWa (or via Facebook Live or Periscope simulcasts).
If you have questions about Division III basketball, feel free to send them and we will answer them on a the show. Email them to dave.mchugh@d3sports.com or use any of the social media options below.
Guests Schedule (order subject to change):
- John Alesi, Baruch men's coach
- Sam Atkinson, Men's National Committee Chair (Gallaudet Associate Director for Communications)
- Russ Phillips, Alfred men's coach
- Bill Curley, Emerson men's coach
- Karin Harvey, Women's National Committee Chair (Montclair State women's coach)
- Rayne Reber, Rosemont women's coach
- Lyle Jones, Bethany Lutheran women's coach
Men's Mock Selections Team:
- Ryan Scott, D3hoops.com
- Bob Quillman, IWUHoops.com
- Michael Blaine, Medaille men's coach
Women's Mock Selections Team:
- Gordon Mann, D3hoops.com
- BJ Spigelmyer, DeSales Sports Information Director
- James Wagner, CSAC Assistant Commissioner
If you enjoy the show via the podcasts, choose your favorite avenue to listen and/or subscribe via the the following four avenues (click on the images when necessary):
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Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2019, 04:21:07 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on February 24, 2019, 04:21:07 PM
Gwynedd Mercy is the Pool B, right? We're all in agreement?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: fantastic50 on February 24, 2019, 07:58:14 PM
Post by: fantastic50 on February 24, 2019, 07:58:14 PM
I would be shocked if anyone else got it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2019, 07:24:17 PM
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2019, 07:24:17 PM
Gwynedd Mercy 73 Plattsburgh St 65
Pool B still alive
Pool B still alive
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: mailsy on March 01, 2019, 07:45:36 PM
Post by: mailsy on March 01, 2019, 07:45:36 PM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2019, 07:24:17 PM
Gwynedd Mercy 73 Plattsburgh St 65
Pool B still alive
What's the furthest a pool B team has gone in the tourney?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2019, 11:47:53 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on March 01, 2019, 11:47:53 PM
Quote from: mailsy on March 01, 2019, 07:45:36 PMQuote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2019, 07:24:17 PM
Gwynedd Mercy 73 Plattsburgh St 65
Pool B still alive
What's the furthest a pool B team has gone in the tourney?
Maryville was independent and the perennial Pool B entry for a long time. I'm sure they made the second weekend at least once.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: sac on March 01, 2019, 11:57:43 PM
Post by: sac on March 01, 2019, 11:57:43 PM
Was thinking Maryville and Chapman. I think both have made the 2nd round
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: ronk on March 02, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
Post by: ronk on March 02, 2019, 12:27:02 AM
Scranton was pool B twice (08-09); lost in 1st round both times.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2019, 08:12:51 AM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2019, 08:12:51 AM
Quote from: FCGrizzliesGrad on March 01, 2019, 07:24:17 PMSecond round:
Gwynedd Mercy 73 Plattsburgh St 65
Pool B still alive
Williams 90 Gwynned Mercy 56
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on August 17, 2019, 08:53:25 AM
Post by: hopefan on August 17, 2019, 08:53:25 AM
This question has probably been answered somewhere, some time, but I can't find it...
The CAC, with Penn State Harrisburg moving out to the NEAC and Frostburg to D2, is down to 6 teams for 2019-20... Does that mean a move to "B" classification?
The CAC, with Penn State Harrisburg moving out to the NEAC and Frostburg to D2, is down to 6 teams for 2019-20... Does that mean a move to "B" classification?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 17, 2019, 10:36:54 AM
Post by: Caz Bombers on August 17, 2019, 10:36:54 AM
eventually, yes, but not yet, they get a 2 year grace period. Pool B for the 2022 tournament I believe.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: hopefan on August 17, 2019, 12:03:06 PM
Post by: hopefan on August 17, 2019, 12:03:06 PM
Quote from: Caz Bombers on August 17, 2019, 10:36:54 AM
eventually, yes, but not yet, they get a 2 year grace period. Pool B for the 2022 tournament I believe.
wow interesting...and they move to only 5 with York leaving in 2020-21....wonder what people think is going to happen.....
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 17, 2019, 01:03:21 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 17, 2019, 01:03:21 PM
Quote from: hopefan on August 17, 2019, 12:03:06 PMQuote from: Caz Bombers on August 17, 2019, 10:36:54 AM
eventually, yes, but not yet, they get a 2 year grace period. Pool B for the 2022 tournament I believe.
wow interesting...and they move to only 5 with York leaving in 2020-21....wonder what people think is going to happen.....
Yeah -- it's an ongoing question. It hasn't been discussed here, although it probably should be. You might find some discussion on the CAC board, though.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 22, 2019, 10:30:00 PM
Post by: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on August 22, 2019, 10:30:00 PM
To be brief - the CAC is one of the rare conferences with the schools remaining where being a non-AQed conference is NOT the end of the world. Not ideal, but any stretch of the imagination, but not horrible, either.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2020, 01:58:37 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2020, 01:58:37 PM
Pool B 2020 update
Randolph-Macon 81, Wesley 69
Pool B goes 0-1 this season.
Randolph-Macon 81, Wesley 69
Pool B goes 0-1 this season.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 30, 2021, 01:43:26 PM
Post by: KnightSlappy on August 30, 2021, 01:43:26 PM
I need a reminder, is AEC still Pool B and are they the only ones?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 30, 2021, 02:55:58 PM
Post by: Ralph Turner on August 30, 2021, 02:55:58 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 30, 2021, 01:43:26 PMI think that they are Pool A. They were Pool B in 2019-2020.
I need a reminder, is AEC still Pool B and are they the only ones?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2021, 03:53:36 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2021, 03:53:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on August 30, 2021, 02:55:58 PMQuote from: KnightSlappy on August 30, 2021, 01:43:26 PMI think that they are Pool A. They were Pool B in 2019-2020.
I need a reminder, is AEC still Pool B and are they the only ones?
Yeah, I don't think there's a Pool B this year. Maranatha Baptist might be the only team not in a conference right now.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: CNU85 on August 30, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
Post by: CNU85 on August 30, 2021, 04:39:31 PM
They can join the C2C. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Baldini on August 30, 2021, 04:45:43 PM
Post by: Baldini on August 30, 2021, 04:45:43 PM
I don't believe Maranatha Baptist has any interest in being in a conference.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2021, 06:08:12 PM
Post by: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2021, 06:08:12 PM
I thought i'd read somewhere they were leaving the ncaa, but I can't find any mention of it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Baldini on August 30, 2021, 06:21:22 PM
Post by: Baldini on August 30, 2021, 06:21:22 PM
They play a mix of D 3, NAIA and NCCAA schools in their region and play in the NCCAA national tournament for men's and women's basketball just about every year. It probably helps a little for scheduling, but it wouldn't change a great deal for them if they were out of the NCAA. IMHO
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 30, 2021, 06:33:00 PM
Post by: FCGrizzliesGrad on August 30, 2021, 06:33:00 PM
Quote from: Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan) on August 30, 2021, 06:08:12 PMThe thought was mentioned over on the realignment thread (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=7907.msg1994463#msg1994463)
I thought i'd read somewhere they were leaving the ncaa, but I can't find any mention of it.
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Inkblot on August 30, 2021, 10:27:31 PM
Post by: Inkblot on August 30, 2021, 10:27:31 PM
Is the four-team NECC still in Pool A?
Title: Re: Bumblin' B's
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 30, 2021, 10:31:16 PM
Post by: Pat Coleman on August 30, 2021, 10:31:16 PM
Quote from: Inkblot on August 30, 2021, 10:27:31 PM
Is the four-team NECC still in Pool A?
Yes, they'll have a two-year grace period as long as they retain four core members.