The NCAA's DIII Men's Basketball Committee proposed the format for the expanded playoffs. The proposal was submitted to the Championships Committee meeting, Sept. 18-21 in Peoplapolis, Peopliana (just trying to observe the NCAA's policy on "hostile and abusive" terms ;)).
2006 Men's Basketball Tourney (http://www2.ncaa.org/media_and_events/association_news/ncaa_news_online/2005/08_29_05/division_iii/4218n27.html)
The format for a 58 team tourney would have 10 sites featuring 4-teams playing single elimnation on Friday and Saturday nights and the remaining 18 teams playing in 6 sub-brackets of the familiar visitor-home-bye format on Thursday and Saturday.
My first thought is that this places a very high premium on hosting the 4-team bracket. Also, the NCAA will use the 3-team bracket for the "geographically isolated", e.g., the NWC, the SCIAC, the ASC and any place else that they can put 3 teams without a plane flight.
More to follow as this goes thru the adoption process...
Sorry..I haven't figured out the hyperlink shortcut yet.
Aargh. I really hate this concept and have already said my piece (http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=51) on it.
Ralph, hyperlinks are a little tricky. Create the text you want to link, select it, hit the globe icon on the tags list, then go into the first tag and change it from {url} to {url=http://whateveryourlinkis}.
Also, notice I changed the brackets in my demonstration so the board wouldn't interpret them as code. Don't change the brackets from the [ that the board provides.
Ralph,
Are you suggesting that there is a certain irony in the NCAA's stance so soon after they relocate to Indianapolis?!
I never pictured you as such a cynic! ;D
Thanks, Pat! I will practice the hyperlinks, and thank you for linking to your Daily Dose comments on the subject.
Mr Ipsi, I am just being pro-active in my adaptation to the NCAA world after Indian mascots. ;D
Unfortunately, the cynical side does rear its ugly head occasionally...or when I make a very lame attempt at subtle, cerebral humor. :-[
Thanks, Ralph, for the tournament information, and thanks, Pat, for the instructions. Both are very interesting and useful.
In trying a hyperlink, I am happy to see that it works like the "newurl" tag in the old version of PU. That is, if you click on it, the link opens in a new window. As it should.
Have you (Ralph) become a member of the PU HOF, or am I seeing your status from PP? I guess the chatroom merger has merged the Halls as well. Regardless, you belong in the PU HOF, so if this means you're in, I'm glad. And always remember our motto: "Let me be clear, Senator; I have never used spellcheck in my posts. Never!" :D
I like the hyperlink (http://www.savetoby.com) thing; it works well. No more of those messy long strings of unintelligable characters.
:D savetoby.com? Crazy website... just crazy.
I too was glad when Ralph's status merged. Yay Ralph! ;)
I don't like this tournament format at all.
>:(
I remain impressed with the ability of the NCAA to mess up just about anything it gets near. It favors the geographically isolated and the teams that host dramatically. It also puts even more weight on the NCAA's bizarre selection criteria.
How long will it be before the NCAA buys out the other D3 Post season tournament?
I just wish (hope, pray) that one day the conference champs and then the best available teams will make the tourney and not just who has the most points in a ludicrous system.
Oh, please!
For once the 2006 D3 handbook is out before the season and before D1...amazing.
Anyway, there are some interesting changes, including the extra teams in the tourney.
Pool A- 37 bids
Pool B- 4 bids
Pool C- 18 bids
I guess with the increase in post-season teams, comes the increase in regionally ranked teams as well. New rankings will be as follows:
Atlantic and East Regions- 5 teams each
Great Lakes Region- 6 teams
Mid-Atlantic, Midwest, South and West Regions- 8 teams each
Northeast Region- 10 teams
I know the NE always did 8 teams plus two HM to get a top ten of sorts. I wonder if this will do away with the HM spots or create a defacto top twelve?
Another interesting note: there will only be three regional rankings this year, February, 8th, 15th and 22nd.
The SOSI is now officially the QOWI (Quality of Wins Index) which is far more accurate a name, even if the acronym is tougher to type. They've also added a provision for a tied game. I'm not aware of any problems last year involving ties or why any game would end in a tie, but there must be some reason for the addition.
A big change in the QOWI comes in the final selection criteria concerning performance against ranked opponents. The old system considered a ranked team to be any team which appeared in the rankings at any point. The new system defines a ranked team as only the teams in the final ranking (which in the past has been kept secret and revealed only to the selection committee).
Also, there is an addition of 3rd and 4th year provisionals to the ranking system. Games against these schools will count towards the QOWI. Pat is there any way to get an official list of which schools are 3rd and 4th year provisionals?
There are some interesting additions to the secondary criteria as well. In addition to out of region head-to-head, overall d3 win percentage, results versus common non d3 opponents and results versus d3 teams ranked in other regions, the committee has added:
Overall win percentage
Results versus common out-of-region opponents
and then the big ones
Quality of wins for the overall D3 games
If necessary and approved by the championships committee, the selection committee can use win/loss percentage from the last 25% of the season.
There could be some big implications from these additions.
I guess I don't know the whole story about why the NIIC no longer has a Pool A bid. I heard merger, but never got the details. I'd love to have someone fill me in.
I forgot to actually give the make-up of the tournament:
It's a 59 team tourney, so your model was one off, Ralph.
5 teams get first round byes, five two-team playoffs determine the opponents of the bye teams. The remaining 44 teams play in 11 four-team tournaments to result in 16 teams for sectionals. The five two-team first round games are played thursday, then the 11 groups do a friday-saturday thing, with all 16 second round games occurring on that same saturday.
I totally missed this new section with further qualifications for elligibility for post-season play:
Only games on the original schedule will be counted in the rankings. Anything added after the initial schedule submission do not count.
Teams must play 50% of their schedule against in-region d3 opponents. There is a waiver available for teams unable to meet this requirement to plead their case... so who knows if this will be held to all that seriously or not.
Other changes I noticed from 2005 to 2006:
They pulled the automatic home team label from the host school at sectionals. That means that a host school might have to wear road unis or play in the early game. I'm not sure if they've seeded teams for sectionals before, but they will definately have to this time, as the higher seed gets to choose whether to play the early game or the late game. They will also be listed first on the bracket and be the home team. It even goes so far as to specify that the higher seeded team will sit on the bench to the right of the scorer's table, when facing the field of play.
The ASC, SCAC, AMCC, NEAC, and UAA all get to be evaluated by geographic region instead of the region of conferece.
The listing of each region and which teams fall in that region, including pool B elligible are in the handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf). There's even an empty bracket for us to fill out... how fun.
Thanks for the heads-up, we'll have to do a story on this tomorrow.
Couple answers: Dominican left the NIIC, so they have just six schools this year.
The provisions for tie games and added games to the schedule are not really aimed at basketball. Looks like these guidelines are for all Division III sports, including sports such as soccer and baseball, one of which has tie games, and one of which has teams that tend to add games late in the season in order to improve their tourney résumé.
Also, those conferences were evaluated by geographical region in the past, that actually isn't a change.
There were no honorable mention teams last season in the regional rankings. I think they should list teams also receiving votes on the regional rankings, that way fans and teams know where they stand.
Maybe it's just me, but as long as you have 59 teams going to the tournament, why not just bump it up to a full field of 64 and eliminate all bye teams and play-ins?
JM - That would make too much sense...
Please post the hyperlink to the Handbook.
I thought that there would be one more ranking on Selection weekend that will be used in the process.
Actually the 59 team format probably saves the NCAA a Plane Flight, not a bus ride.
In a game that keeps stats so precisely, you'd think the number 64 would seem obvious to the NCAA.
I posted the link in my second post on the handbook below, but here (http://www.ncaa.org/library/handbooks/basketball/2006/2006_d3_m_basketball_handbook.pdf) it is again.
Even if is were just a couple of bus rides, its still more than the NCAA wants to dish out for a tournament on which they lose money.
Yeah, about the geographic regions, the NCAA added those extra conferences to the official list, but it appears that they have actually been doing it that way for a while. It also appears that the SCAC and the ASC are both totally within the bounds of the South region and don't need that consideration anyway. Odd.
Hoops Fan, thank you for your breakdown. So, if I have this straight...
* Thurs 3/2: 5 games played - winners face the 5 bye teams on Sat 3/4
* Fri, Sat 3/3 & 3/4: 11 4-team tounaments (each at one designated location) with the 11 winners advancing to Sectional
* Sat 3/4: Winners of Thursday games @ bye teams - 5 winners advancing to Sectional
* Fri, Sat 3/10 & 3/11: Sectional as we are used to them - 4 winners advancing to Salem
Do I have this correct?
I haven't had a chance to digest this yet, but I think the 11 4-team tournaments will be kind of cool. I'm sure it will really be a "tournament atmosphere." Will also give fans a chance to see another game.
I just wish we could get a full 64 and have 16 4-team tournaments on the first weekend.
Yeah, you got it right. Other than the fact that I coined the term "mini-tournaments" and although its exactly what they are, I'm sure the NCAA would frown on it. Therefore, I encourage everyone to use it, especially when the D-I tournament gets going, it is nothing but 21 "mini-tournaments" in its own right.
I do like tha fact that the NCAA is admitting to seeding and even told us how to figure out the higher seeds once we get to sectionals.
I assume from the handbook though, that the seeding will only be within each "mini-tournament" so we could still end up with four of the five best teams playing for one final-four slot, but at least we'll know who the underdog is.
I just figured we would call these regionals again, like they used to be called, leading to sectionals and final four. :)
As for 64, we'll get there eventually, when we approach 416 eligible D-III schools. It could be in less than a decade.
Pat, any word on the proposal to cap post-season tournaments in all NCAA sports at all levels at 64? I know this was brought up sometime this summer, but I'm not aware if it was made into an official proposal or anything. It interested me then, but I can't find any information on it currently. I wonder if that would do away with the "play-in" game for the D1 tourney?
I expect that will be a done deal, but I don't think it has passed through all the 'how a bill becomes a law' stages yet.
Oh I'm only a bill, only a bill... sitting here on capitol hill
[APPLAUDS the timely use of Schoolhouse Rock]
Slight correction, it goes:
I'm just a bill, yes I'm only a bill and I'm sitting here on capitol hill
Here is a link with all the different song lyrics if anyone needs a refresher.
Schoolhouse rock (http://www.schoolhouserock.tv/Index.html)
Can I tell you how disappointed i was when I bought the Schoolhouse Rock DVD collection for my son and he HATED it?
As for the 64 team cap, I expect it to be proposed officially at the winter NCAA convention and it will pass.
As for the logic behind the brackets and byes and pairings and the rest... they went with the new ratio and come hell or high water they were going to make 59 work. it's a complete and total disaster, but WTF did you expect from our dear friends in Indy?
Your son's a little young for that. He might come around yet.
I don't see how anyone of any age could hate Conjunction Junction. :P
He is five and has been criticizing Phil Garner all week for not pinch hitting late in game 3, so what can I tell you? I had expected Schoolhouse Rock to go over well!
"Conjunction junction, what's your function? Hooking up words, phrases and pronouns"
Coach C, you haven't been on the board discussing the PC-ing of mascots, but I think to be fair to everyone involved, we need to refer to the NCAA's home city as "Native Peoplesapolis."
And if it turns out that your kid never comes around, I'll be happy to take the Schoolhouse Rock set off your hands.
Watch it - those are my homies yer talkin' about...
Nah - they ain't your homies -- most of them are carpet baggers from all over the place that have been drawn by the siren call of power over the masses.
Coach C:
" ... iren call of power over the masses"? Man, you're waxing most poetic this evening. :)
You misspelled "pathetic." :)
Caoch C, what aspects of the 59-team tourney do you not like as opposed to a full 64 team tourney?
Anything other than the extra 5 teams?
Pat, I did indeed make a spelling booby .... LOL.
Ralph -
First, I hate the byes. They won't end up going to the 5 best teams the tournament. There will be geography issues involved and conference issues, and who knows what else int he way of politics. Plus, mark my words, one of these bye teams will go down in their first game. Byes are unnatural in a tournament and serve to interrupt the proper flow of tams at a crucial time of the year.
Second, the mini-tournament idea is horrible. It takes the games off of half of the campuses, further from half of the fans. Teams with better facilities will be rewarded over teams deserving of a home game. It is the single worst idea in the history of this tornament. It's worse than having 48 teams in my opinion. It will serve to actually LOWER interest in the games.
Warren -
Why thank you!
C
There's really no point in giving karma to the guru...but I just had to for that one. :D
Coach C, thanks for the clear and well considered responses.
After careful consideration of the mini-tournament, I don't like the mini-tournament idea either. The first round games are very important, especially, for those "Cinderella" programs that are seeded 17-32. A home playoff game? Wow, what an event on campus!
As geographicaly isloated as the ASC is, the bye-home-away bracket may be the only way that we get a home game down here.
We McMurry fans remember the 2000 season when the South and Great Lakes were thrown together. #1 Calvin, #2 H-SC (upset by Maryville) and #4 McMurry were thrown into the Calvin bracket, at Calvin, in the Sweet 16. I came to the conclusion that an ASC team might never host anything beyond the first or second round. >:(
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2005, 09:16:09 AMWe McMurry fans remember the 2000 season when the South and Great Lakes were thrown together. #1 Calvin, #2 H-SC (upset by Maryville) and #4 McMurry [...]
and #3 Wooster! ;)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on October 29, 2005, 09:16:09 AM[...] were thrown into the Calvin bracket, at Calvin, in the Sweet 16.
I was at a second-round game (from a bye-home-away bracket) at Occidental a couple of years ago, and it was special. I hope such games are not a thing of the past, with all future playoff games to be played within an area described by St. Louis, Minneapolis, Boston, Washington, and Cincinnati.
Oh, that is right, David!
I was a newbie to D3Hoops.com that winter.
I was still learning the difference between this and Columbus Multimedia. :)
The 59-game format gives the out-lying areas a chance to host a single game.
As it stands now, Mississippi College is an NCAA-plane-flight for everyone in the ASC-West, and MissColl is barely a bus ride to Maryville TN. The ASC pre-season poll came out. On the 20 ballots that were cast in the ASC-West, 4 teams got 1st place votes and there are 8 points separating 1st from 4th. Very, very close! :o
Also David, Russell Vanlandingham was Coach Ron Holmes' assistant on that 2000 McMurry team. Coach Vanlandingham has rejoined Coach Holmes as an assistant. That should be interesting to follow. We McMurry fans are excited! :)
Ralph -
I will admit that this does give the geographically isolated (out in the frigging sticks or on the bloody wrong coast) schools a chance at a home game, I think that for the majority of the teams it will present a chilling effect to fan involvement. With the mini-tournaments, that overwhelming majority of temas will be on the road for their entire stay in the tournament, meaning fans will ave to drive to a game, turn around and drive back, then drive to the next game, etc.
There just arent that many fans who are willing to do that night in and night out,especially if you didnt get a home game at all to spark campus interest.
It's a bad mistake.
What I wonder about is if these "mini-tournaments" might allow smaller schools to host. While the requirements for sectional hosts till include a 1,000 capacity minimum, there are no requirements and guidelines for the first round hosts. You might see some deserving teams with small facilities actually getting the advantage of hosting. I know the NCAA would most likely go with the better and larger facility, but since there is very little money to be made anyway, I can hold out hope that a worthy small school could get rewarded. What do you think?
Hoops fan -
i think that it is fairly likely that the sectional requirements will be very similar to what we see for the mini-tournaments. The NCAA is pushing for facility upgrades and this would be yet another way to encourage schools to build the new gym!
I agree with Coach C about the first and second round games at a Sectional. We are cutting the #17 to #32 seeds out of a home game. This is the group of schools where one is likely to find the occasional program that has had a great year.
IMHO, the 16 host gyms will likely be those belonging to the perennial powers, whether they are the strongest of the 4 teams in that part of the bracket or not. That is too great an advantage!
Well, that being said. I like the language of the new handbook a little better than previous ones. I'll be the optimist for the first year until the NCAA screws it up and proves me wrong.
Hoops fan -
The NCAA has beante the optimism out of me! I think that they have ALREADY screwed this year up!
C
I know that there are more pool C bids this year but I am wondering how they will be given out. I believe the great lakes and midwest regions to be far more difficult than some other regions so will schools from those regions be more likely to receive these at large bids or will they be evenly divided among regions, regardless of who the best teams are?
Quote from: ziggy on January 21, 2006, 08:55:57 PM
I know that there are more pool C bids this year but I am wondering how they will be given out. I believe the great lakes and midwest regions to be far more difficult than some other regions so will schools from those regions be more likely to receive these at large bids or will they be evenly divided among regions, regardless of who the best teams are?
Schools from tougher regions are LESS likely to receive bids than comparable teams from less tough regions. QOWI is done only on in-region games (as is a team's relevant W-L record). Thus, in a weak region a good team can feast on some mediocre teams who none-the-less have good records because they in turn feasted on downright bad teams. A merely good team in a powerful region is as likely to be prey as hunter, and the mediocre teams they beat are likely to have poor records. Thus, a team like say Calvin or Elmhurst would be a virtual lock for a pool C in they were located in the East, but stand little chance in the Great Lakes or Midwest.
It's crazy, but them are the rules. At least they no longer have the regional quotas of the 64-team d3 tourney - then it was 8 teams per region regardless of quality! Some TRULY undeserving teams got in with that scenario, some almost as undeserving as pool B Dallas a couple years ago! ;D
[A tourney-savvy coach will go for a non-conference schedule heavily laden with the top teams from really weak conferences - their opponents will have a great W-L record, but they will still beat them - 14 or 15 points for your QOWI! This, plus NOT playing a double round-robin like REAL conferences do (thus not beating up each other) is why the NESCAC gets way more than their share of pool C bids.]
Good post, Chuck. You said it all in a nutshell, especially in your first paragraph about how the teams in the tougher regions suffer in the QOWI category.
Quote from: ziggy on January 21, 2006, 08:55:57 PM
I know that there are more pool C bids this year but I am wondering how they will be given out. I believe the great lakes and midwest regions to be far more difficult than some other regions so will schools from those regions be more likely to receive these at large bids or will they be evenly divided among regions, regardless of who the best teams are?
Here's my response:
Imagine if you will a round table with eight chairs, one for each region. All the Pool A and B selections have been made, and all the remaining teams are told to line up behind their region's chair, in order of the regional rankings. The highest-ranked (that's regional rankings, mind you, using the NCAA's criteria, discussed elsewhere; not the d3hoops.com rankings) team in each region takes their region's seat at the table. From those eight teams, one is selected, and gets up to go to the Pool C Lounge for a beer. The team that was standing behind that chair moves up and takes a seat at the table, and the process repeats. And repeats, and keeps repeating, until the Pool C Lounge reaches its capacity. (Then several of the teams from the eastern side of the table grumble about not being invited to the Pool C Lounge, and decide to go to the ECAC Tavern, thinking that they'll still be able to have a good time, but they're always wrong.)
So it's theoretically possible that all 18 Pool C bids could come from one region, but when teams are actually being selected, there's never more (or less) than one team from each region being discussed.
See also http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=33, keeping in mind that the numbers (48 men, 50 women) are last year's numbers.
David, that post has really made me thirsty.
The ECAC tavern, where fun goes to die!
try to be a smartass and a conversation breaks out.
All I was saying was that the 18 Pool C Bids will be filled out regardless of who the 18 best qualified teams really are.
But at least it will be much more likely that Final Four caliber teams aren't left at home.
Well just for that I am going to update FAQ #33. :)
Thought I had gotten them all updated.
Pat,
Once the NCAA regional rankings are revealed, where are you going to post those? Certainly we aren't going to get 8 new boards for each regional ranking, are we? I got enough boards to look at! Would you (or someone) post them on the Pool C board, or possibly this board since it is Men's Basketball Tourney related!
I'll post them in Notables as we did last year.
It's highly improbable, but technically all 18 bids could come from the same region... ok its downright impossible, but under the current rules its allowable.
We started a regional rankings board in the NE region to discuss such obtuse matters as who's the best, even before the real rankings come out.
Stalker, I'm not sure if you'll pick up on this, but what are your thoughts on the potential of the NJAC winner getting sent North? With NYU and Rochester taking dives, there will probably be only one in the tournament, at most. There may be a vacuum of good squads that has to get filled from somewhere. Thoughts?
Haven't spent much time away from the MWC board this season, but tourney time has me poking my head out of my foxhole.
As a Lawrence fan, I am preparing to watch the Vikings be royally jobbed by the NCAA selection folks. Even though they are currently #2 in QOWI, #1 in their region, AND undefeated I can't help but think that should they reach the sectional level it won't be held at LU. I'm even so paranoid as to think they could miss out on a bye (though their smaller gym could actually help there...no losing money on a 4 team regional if they get the bye). Lawrence has improved the seating capacity to roughly 1,600, but that still isn't a huge facility. Assuming LU can win the MWC tourney this weekend (which a Vegas odds-maker would likely give them at least a 60-40 shot of doing) to keep their QOWI and Regional Rankings high, does anyone here think that LU fans should even bother dreaming of a bye and/or hosting a sectional?
I would think that a bye (or a sectional) is a strong probability. At least a couple of the 5 byes will no doubt be geographical (to save plane fare for isolated teams, or their opponents), but that still leaves two or three (and Larry would certainly be among the top teams by the criteria). On the other hand, they could certainly be the home team for a 4-team (regional, not yet sectional) set-up that would involve no airfare. Ticket prices are sufficiently low that venues bigger than Alex would not amass SIGNIFICANTLY higher revenue, so I doubt that is a major consideration.
I think you still have one or more home games in your future! (For the rest of us, just make sure that no one OTHER than you or Carroll wins the AQ - that would almost certainly mean one less C for everyone else! ;D Or else Carroll getting the shaft.)
Yea, I'm already working on how I can continually duck out of work early on the next few Friday's to get up to Appleton. And I'm booking plane tickets to DC so I can get down to Salem for the Final Four (i think...my team lead could still quash that...I already have the game tickets so I suppose I could be out 40 bucks :-\). Even if LU doesn't make it that far, I have friends in VA and MD that I haven't seen in a while who could meet me in Salem. :D
Chuck makes a good point. One thing that Lawrence has working in its favor is the possibility that one or two of the teams in the westernmost sectional could be geographic orphans, a la Puget Sound or Trinity (TX). The anomaly of two years ago notwithstanding, I strongly doubt that a geographic orphan would be called upon to host such a sectional this year, raising the NCAA's travel costs -- and it could mean that one or two potential rivals to Lawrence's chances of hosting that sectional would be out of the picture.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 24, 2006, 03:10:25 AM
Chuck makes a good point. One thing that Lawrence has working in its favor is the possibility that one or two of the teams in the westernmost sectional could be geographic orphans, a la Puget Sound or Trinity (TX). The anomaly of two years ago notwithstanding, I strongly doubt that a geographic orphan would be called upon to host such a sectional this year, raising the NCAA's travel costs -- and it could mean that one or two potential rivals to Lawrence's chances of hosting that sectional would be out of the picture.
That neutral site, UPS, was the scene of 2 OT games, Larry U versus Sul Ross State (from the ASC-West) and then the Larry U-Stevens Point Elite 8 game.
The crowds were abysmal, but the basketball was outstanding!
I'll beg to differ, just for fun. :D
If Stout loses on Saturday, there is a good chance that Stout could get a Pool C bid, with Whitewater obviously getting the AQ. There are plenty of teams within reach of Appleton with bigger facilities that could host before Lawrence does. For some odd reason LU doesn't get a bye in the first round, they'll most likely stomp on either WLC or Edgewood in the first round.
I would have to think that capacity is a little issue in terms of getting fans from the other three teams to come and watch. If it is an issue, a West team like Stout (Johnson Fieldhouse 2200), Carleton (West Gym 1850), St. Thomas (Schoenecker Arena 2250), among others holds more. Plus, with the geographical locations of the MIAC schools and Stout, it'd be more convenient to have St. Thomas (in St. Paul) or Carleton (Northfield) drive two hours to Menomonie and have Lawrence drive 5 hours or so than to have two teams drive at least five hours to Appleton. Not sure if the NCAA takes that into account.
This, of course, is also assuming Lu is thrown into the "south/west" sectional and not the midwest/great lakes" sectional. Then you have to worry about the multiple CCIW teams and the multiple MIAA teams, among others.
In a perfect world, I hope Whitewater wins, Stout gets a Pool C bid and Whitewater is put in the midwest/great lakes sectional and Stout is put in the south/west sectional! lol. ;)
Of course, I could be talking like a sausage and none of this could happen and my "sectionals" may not even exist...but, it's fun to pretend like I know what I'm talking about! ::)
I would hope the NCAA can recognize Larry's ability and talent level after three years and give them a home gig. I doubt they get a sectional though.
With Pat's QOWI numbers, MissColl is #6 and the highest ranked team not in the East or Northeast Region. If they win tomorrow, and then win the first weekend's playoff games,
will MissCollege get to host a Sectional? ???
what do you think the most likely matchups could be for thursdays games and who do you think should get the byes?
I question Pat's interpretation that the Thursday games should be considered 8/9 games. If geographical/travel isn't a factor and with 8 regions and 8 teams in each region, then the games should be considered 4/5 games involving the middle 10 teams of the tournament(ranking 28-37) with the winners playing 5 of the #1 seeds in the 2nd round just as in a normal 8-team tournament?
Your thoughts, Pat?
Since the NCAA vacated seeding the brackets as eight brackets of eight about three or four years ago, we started seeding the brackets as four brackets of 16.
Besides, with the D-I tourney the way it is, most people understand the meaning of "8/9 game" in this context. You're actually correct, in NCAA-speak it's a 4/5 game but since the NCAA does NOT speak on this issue, we are using the terminology more accessible to casual fans.
The NCAA doesn't officially "seed" teams. When Pat puts up the tourney pairings, he usually lists "seeds" for each team, simply for bracket purposes, that's all.
I think I read something in the 2006 handbook about seeding teams now, with the expanded tournament. They at least mention matching teams up by seed as often as possible. Also, the highest seed team has to play at certain times during the sectional.
I don't have time to look up the exact language, but I think seeding is back, baby.
I know this may all change on Monday, but help me get a picture of something. It has been a few years since Hope has been in the tournament, so bear with me:
If this is the GL bracket:
GREAT LAKES
1. Hope
2. Wittenberg
3. Transylvania
4. North Central
5. Carroll
6. Calvin
7. DePauw
8. Wisconsin Lutheran
Do 1 and 8 host, with 1-8, and 4-5 on "one side" and 2-7 and 3-6 on the "other side"? Or could Hope play Calvin again as early as their second game?
There are 11 four team regionals and five three team regionals.
Below helps explain.
http://www.d3hoops.com/dailydose/?p=127
Hope would host the 1, 4, 5, and 8 (allegedly).
Witt would host the 2, 3, 6, and 7.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 26, 2006, 05:29:40 PM
I think I read something in the 2006 handbook about seeding teams now, with the expanded tournament. They at least mention matching teams up by seed as often as possible. Also, the highest seed team has to play at certain times during the sectional.
I don't have time to look up the exact language, but I think seeding is back, baby.
They have always seeded. They just keep it secret.
For example, Lincoln is listed as our #2 seed in the Mid-Atlantic, but their ability to host is a question. So even though Wooster is a lower seed, again based on our numbers, they could host.
I don't think that would worry Lincoln any...with the schedule they had to cobble together I don't think they have any fear.
It seems as though the official seedings would dictate who hosts, but I think Lincoln's ability may be in question...we'll find out what the committee thinks in due time.
But very true re: Lincoln's schedule.
Christopher Newport is the opposite. CNU has had 19 games at home and played terribly on the road...
I am not sure their ability to host is a question. I have never been there but it seems sufficient on paper. That was last season that they had floor issues.
Lincoln is certianly a strong host possibility. It's a big building with planety of facility for a mini tournament.
C
Quote from: Coach C on February 26, 2006, 08:42:27 PM
It's a big building with planety of facility for a mini tournament.
Wow, "planety" that is a big facility. ;D
Quote from: Coach C on February 26, 2006, 08:42:27 PM
Lincoln is certianly a strong host possibility. It's a big building with planety of facility for a mini tournament.
C
Which planet? ??? ;D
I see one first week pod that does involve a plane flight to Clinton MS...
Maryville and Huntingdon. both going to Mississippi College.
Didn't MC drive to MC a couple years ago?
Any idea on who will be getting the 5 available buys?
Quote from: bouttime on February 26, 2006, 09:18:16 PM
Any idea on who will be getting the 5 available buys?
Hey, can I buy one for IWU?! (Sorry, bouttime, couldn't resist!) ;D
There is no problem with Lincoln hosting. Gordon Mann webcast the Lincoln/Stockton game, and was impressed. Additionally, Lincoln just hosted the D3 Northeast Independent tournament Friday and Saturday.
I agree with Lincoln having no problem going on the road, but their record warrants hosting a game or two. Manuel Rivero Hall seats 2,500, and the Lions rankings should be rewarded.
I figured I was goin to catch some for my "buys". Oh well. Tournament time does crazy things to people. Haha.
Quote from: bouttime on February 26, 2006, 10:08:21 PM
I figured I was goin to catch some for my "buys". Oh well. Tournament time does crazy things to people. Haha.
Good attitude! Just funnin' ya - glad you didn't go postal on me. ;D
But for the conspirator theorists, you do raise a serious issue - how much does it cost to buy a bye? ;)
Are there any set parameters for seeding teams? Criteria and the like? Or do they just get to pick who they think is best?
Question for the board and appologies if this has been addressed.
Any idea how the bracketing will be done regarding geography and teams from the same conference? With additional pool c bids it means that there are more multi bid conferences. Will we see the committee attempt to avoid an IWU-North Central game in the first round or early rounds? Obviously this is easier in the midwest, but what about out west with the SCIAC?
Quote from: carlweathers on February 26, 2006, 10:57:47 PM
Question for the board and appologies if this has been addressed.
Any idea how the bracketing will be done regarding geography and teams from the same conference? With additional pool c bids it means that there are more multi bid conferences. Will we see the committee attempt to avoid an IWU-North Central game in the first round or early rounds? Obviously this is easier in the midwest, but what about out west with the SCIAC?
My understanding is that the rules prohibit a first round meeting of conference opponents, but after that it is strictly up to the selection committee.
No first round meetings of teams in the same conference, although there is an out if geography becomes a factor.
Georgraphy will actually help the fairness of the bracket this year.
The Midwest and Great Lakes Regions have eight teams a piece and between them, the South and West have 16. That means, if they are going to use byes for travel reasons in the West and South, plus a bye or two for record in the Midwest/GL, they will have to ship some teams East. Teams like Wooster or CMU are perfect choices and would totally add some extra weight to the brackets.
Now all we have to do is wait and see how the NCAA will screw it up.
I hate to be picky, but the link on D3hoops times. The link to D3Sports/mens teams has on 51 teams listed, with on 10 pool c teams. Who are the other eight teams?
Quote from: knightstalker on February 26, 2006, 11:12:25 PM
I hate to be picky, but the link on D3hoops times. The link to D3Sports/mens teams has on 51 teams listed, with on 10 pool c teams. Who are the other eight teams?
This was taken care of ... before 11:12, I am positive. It was fixed at 10:48.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2006, 09:11:36 PM
Didn't MC drive to MC a couple years ago?
Yes, Pat!
Mississippi College and Maryville College have bussed back and forth since the mileage limit was expanded from 400 miles to 500 miles.
I would love to see that game! ;)
That must be 500 miles on the dot. Yahoo Driving Directions says Clinton MS to Maryville TN is 502.4. Almost exactly the same mileage as it is from Miss. College to the other Maryville, in St. Louis (501.8).
David, that is known as the MC triangle. Although a few teams are found on the peripehry of the triangle, the deepest aspects of the center of the MC triangle are completely barren of recognizable D3 hoops. :o
The fact that a team has not fallen into the MC triangle, as it drove near it, is miraculous.
Ralph,
For a triangle, you must have THREE points. You have MissC and MaryV, but where is your third? ;)
The other Maryille? :)
If David's (and Yahoo's) mileage figures are correct, that would also be an isosceles triangle, or darned close to one, if I remember my tenth-grade geometry (or would that be trig?). With two Mary's and the state of Mississippi involved, it could also be some sort of bizarre love triangle. Alright, it's late, and I'll continue this rambling no further.
Quote from: Wooster Booster on February 27, 2006, 01:43:18 AM
If David's (and Yahoo's) mileage figures are correct, that would also be an isosceles triangle, or darned close to one, if I remember my tenth-grade geometry (or would that be trig?). With two Mary's and the state of Mississippi involved, it could also be some sort of bizarre love triangle. Alright, it's late, and I'll continue this rambling no further.
If the "MC Triangle" is nominated for Best Picture at Cannes...
I'm gonna quit rambling, too. ::) :-[
It's not strictly the MC triangle, since the northwesternmost point is MU. But you're right about the dangers of falling in to its vortex. I fell into the MC Triangle in 1982, and didn't escape until 1994! Then I fell back into it in 1997, and was held under for another five years or so. Heck, I even lost my identity during that period, and the vortex (or the largest city therein) substituted its name for mine! ;)
Quote from: Wooster Booster on February 27, 2006, 01:43:18 AM
If David's (and Yahoo's) mileage figures are correct, that would also be an isosceles triangle, or darned close to one, if I remember my tenth-grade geometry (or would that be trig?). With two Mary's and the state of Mississippi involved, it could also be some sort of bizarre love triangle. Alright, it's late, and I'll continue this rambling no further.
Wooster Booster,
That is an egregious example of regional stereotyping...but very funny!
Quote from: dansand on February 27, 2006, 06:44:45 AM
Wooster Booster,
That is an egregious example of regional stereotyping...but very funny!
I suppose it could also be taken as an affront to girls named Mary, but I obviouisly meant neither. :)
The Midwest gets loaded again. A potential Lawrence-North Central game in round two?
Carrol vs IWU in round 1? A potential Augie vs Stout in round two? Man.
However, there are some other pretty unfair first round match-ups in other brackets as well. Randolph-Macon and Wooster? Carnegie-Mellon and Baldwin-Wallace?
Yeah, & if Calvin & Hope win in the 1st round, they get to play each other for the 4th time!
Here's what the NE/East bracket looks like to me:
1 - Amherst
2 - Fisher
3 - WPI
4 - Cortland
5 - Tufts
6 - Gordon
7 - Norwich
8 - Hamilton
9 - Plattsburgh
10 - Elms
11 - Utica
12 - Endicott
13 - Mass-Boston
14 - Bridgewater St
Amherst, Fisher, Tufts, or Hamilton will come out, IMHO. No one too scary here.
Out of the last top 25:
Two teams didn't make the tournament.
Three teams can not make it out of the first round.
Four additional teams can not make it to the Sweet Sixteen.
However, only two regionals (Cortland and Baruch) have no top 25 teams in them.
That means there is plenty of room for Top 25 teams to make the final 16, but its a whole heck of a lot easier for some than others.
But the rankings are kind of null and void now, right?
I know that two top teams didn't make it and it's sad, but except for a couple of the B's (Villa Julie, I'm looking at you...) I think every "C" is a fine team and the A's took care of their business.
Toughest sub-sectional (two regionals combined-upper or lower bracket of a sectional) ;D
1. The one that has Hope, Calvin, La Crosse, Carnegie Mellon and Baldwin-Wallace.
2. The one with Lawrence, North Central, Whitewater, Ill. Wes. and Carroll.
Best First Round Games (not in any order, too hard!):
Ill. Wes. vs. Carroll
Randolph-Macon vs. Wooster
Maryville vs. Trinity (Texas) ?
Calvin vs. La Crosse
Carnegie Mellon vs. Baldwin-Wallace
Yeah, those two eight-team groups are just scary.
I didn't think they could do it, but the NCAA found a way to stack two whole brackets and then push all the best teams in the other two into the same side of their brackets.
Messiah down through WPU in the MA and the bottom half of the East bracket are both cake. All York has to do is beat Catholic in their second round rematch and they can cruise to final eight.
The tournament not only has provided us with great team match-ups but great player match-ups as well. The first one that really jumps out at me is CMU's Nate Mauer Vs. BW's Tori Davis. Both are 2 big, very athletic players. It should be a great game between the 2 teams with an even better individual battle.
Hoops Fan:
If both Lincoln and York make it through, the Lions and Spartans looks like a potentially good Mid-Atlantic match-up.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 09:40:13 AM
Yeah, those two eight-team groups are just scary.
I didn't think they could do it, but the NCAA found a way to stack two whole brackets and then push all the best teams in the other two into the same side of their brackets.
Messiah down through WPU in the MA and the bottom half of the East bracket are both cake. All York has to do is beat Catholic in their second round rematch and they can cruise to final eight.
First Catholic has to beat Widener which will not be easy. That bracket is not as easy to get out of as you may think. The teams in that bracket are basically the best of the Atlantic and Mid-Atlantic regions. WPU can shut down any team on any night. They play aggressive man to man pressure defense the whole game, they are on the ball as soon as it is inbounded and they do not let up, offensively they are not outstanding but they stay in games and win with defense. Scranton is a very tough team, Baruch is also a good team, they slipped a little at the end of the season but this is that once in every ten years or so CUNY team that could win a game or two.
Quote from: njlincolnlion on February 27, 2006, 09:56:43 AM
Hoops Fan:
If both Lincoln and York make it through, the Lions and Spartans looks like a potentially good Mid-Atlantic match-up.
I'd like to see that, but VA Wesleyan is a really good team.
Did CMU and BW just get matched up because of geographics reasons? Because if they truly used rankings I don't see how they could rank CMU or BW #7 or #10 in in that regional (That's how I figured it with Wittenberg getting the #2. CMU for example has a 16-4 record and the 10th highest QOWI in the country).
They try to stick with rankings, but sometimes they have to change things around a bit to get everybody to a host site.
Miss Coll
Wittenberg
Hope
Wooster
Transy (I suspect they are hosting for geographic reasons)
Calvin
CMU
Maryville (TN)
Trinity
Baldwin-Wallace
LaCrosse
Bethany
Randolph-Macon
Wis Lutheran
Lake Erie
Maryville (MO)
That would be the ranked order. Obviously the Maryville's throw it off because they are the only ones who can drive to Miss Coll. Who else is in the wrong place? It look like just Baldwin-Wallace, but they had to be switched with (Transy?) for geographic reasons. It's a tough call, but they'll make it anyday. The NCAA is ruthless.
The big travesty is going to be Hope getting to host all the way through. A huge home court advantage. I guess this is the NCAA's way of telling us that schools who build expensive new athletic facilities get all the perks.
[Not that there's anything wrong with that!]
Bracket question for any and all (or maybe for an insider source).
I'm looking at the brackets as posted and trying to figure out the #2 and #3 seeds in each regional. In the three-team regions, #2 is on the top (with the "at" a dead giveaway). In the four-team regions, #2 is apparently on the bottom (e.g. Tufts, William Paterson, etc.).
Is this always the case? UW-LaCrosse as #2 over Calvin looks like an anomaly. I can't see WLax rising enough and Calvin falling enough, relative to their last rankings, to make WLax the better seed.
All the others make sense (Wooster as #2 over Randolph-Macon is a toss-up, as they come from different regions), but this one bugs me.
I would think Calvin was up there too, but they never did get much love in the regional rankings, while LaCrosse did. Also, I would assume that if the committee thought so highly of Calvin, they would not have put them in the same regional as a conference opponent.
Notice the same thing happens with York and Catholic (obviously the committee doesn't think Catholic is good enough to move to a different location in the first weekend).
By the same token you'll notice none of the CCIW schools can meet until round three.
As much as it doesn't make sense that LaCrosse would be favored over Calvin, the numbers say it could happen.
Of course, those are different regions, and each regional committee are looking at a different pool of teams, so you can't compare LAX to Calvin, really. It's the GL and the Midwest are top heavy.
I think B-W got screwed. Not so fast on them getting by the first week-end. They need to beat a tough CMU in round 1 (If CMU shots it well look out) then Wittenberg at Wittenberg the next night. That gets them a shot at Calvin or Hope probably at Calvin or Hope.
Don't worry about Hope hosting all they way through. Calvin gets then in round 2.
Quote from: hugenerd on February 27, 2006, 10:54:56 AM
Did CMU and BW just get matched up because of geographics reasons? Because if they truly used rankings I don't see how they could rank CMU or BW #7 or #10 in in that regional (That's how I figured it with Wittenberg getting the #2. CMU for example has a 16-4 record and the 10th highest QOWI in the country).
BW-CMU is essentially the 8-9 matchup for the sectional. If you look at the last regional poll, BW was 5 in the Great Lakes and CMU was 6. When the sectional is created by merging with the South (with Transylvania a replacement for Virginia Wesleyan who departs to the east), BW and CMU become the 8 and 9 teams, matching up against #2 Wittenberg rather than #1 Mississippi College due to geography.
OK, I lied. The Championship handbook says:
"The higher seeded team will be listed at the top of the competition bracket."
It also states that teams are grouped by geographic proximity first and then seeded. So they just pick four teams that are near each other and then seed them. So in the case of Baldwin-Wallace and CMU, they could be 5 and 4 respectively in the region, but grouped together based on geography.
That also means Calvin is higher than LaCrosse and Endicott is higher than Tufts. (I guess the committee gave a lot of weight to winning a conference tournament title). Although, they could just have misprinted the brackets, like the misspelled North Cenral(Ill.).
Quote from: knightstalker on February 27, 2006, 10:09:28 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 09:40:13 AM
Yeah, those two eight-team groups are just scary.
I didn't think they could do it, but the NCAA found a way to stack two whole brackets and then push all the best teams in the other two into the same side of their brackets.
Messiah down through WPU in the MA and the bottom half of the East bracket are both cake. All York has to do is beat Catholic in their second round rematch and they can cruise to final eight.
First Catholic has to beat Widener which will not be easy. That bracket is not as easy to get out of as you may think. The teams in that bracket are basically the best of the Atlantic and Mid-Atlantic regions.
It won't be easy for Catholic to beat Widener, but Catholic is playing its best basketball of the season right now and rolled through the (York-less) CAC tourney. It looks like Widener might not be.
In terms of York, I would point out that Catholic did beat them once this year. Now, York was on the road, and at home York blew them out, but I can't imagine that York playing Catholic is much of an advantage for York. I'm sure they'd rather face a similarly ranked team that won't be familiar with York and the crazy tile gym like CUA is.
Thanks pabegg, that makes sense. But I'm shocked that there are 7 teams seeded/ranked higher that CMU and B-W in that bracket. I can see the following:
Miss Coll
Wooster
Hope
Calvin
Wittenberg
who else? I guess you'd add Bethany (CMU beat them) and Trinity Texas?
Quote from: TheFence on February 27, 2006, 11:39:23 AM
Thanks pabegg, that makes sense. But I'm shocked that there are 7 teams seeded/ranked higher that CMU and B-W in that bracket. I can see the following:
Miss Coll
Wooster
Hope
Calvin
Wittenberg
who else? I guess you'd add Bethany (CMU beat them) and Trinity Texas?
That's what we just said. There may not be seven teams above them, but they got thrown into that regional because of geography. They aren't going to Transy or Miss Coll and frankly, I'd rather be going to Wittenberg than to Hope.
Hoops Fan:
Point well taken regarding the possible Va. Wesleyan Lincoln matchup before a Possible Lincoln York game, if the seeds all hold true.
I have to do some research on Va. Wesleyan and their schedule. I know the Marlins played R-MC in the ODAC, and Lincoln played R-MC twice. Lincoln blew away the Yellowjackets at home by 22 pts, and R-MC returned the favor at Ashland beating the Lions by 20.
I'm glad Lincoln not only made it to the big dance, but is hosting first and second round games.
GO LIONS
[/color]
Quote from: TheFence on February 27, 2006, 11:39:23 AM
Thanks pabegg, that makes sense. But I'm shocked that there are 7 teams seeded/ranked higher that CMU and B-W in that bracket. I can see the following:
Miss Coll
Wooster
Hope
Calvin
Wittenberg
who else? I guess you'd add Bethany (CMU beat them) and Trinity Texas?
Trinity and Transylvania
One thought on the West Region part of the bracket.
Was UW-Stout originally ranked ahead of St. Thomas, and then they were switched to avoid the Carleton-St. Thomas matchup? Or did St. Thomas really make up that many places in the regional ranking?
Also, UW-LaCrosse was in this mix as well, but was the only one close enough to Hope to move into that bracket?
Quote from: TheFence on February 27, 2006, 11:31:35 AM
I think B-W got screwed. Not so fast on them getting by the first week-end. They need to beat a tough CMU in round 1 (If CMU shots it well look out) then Wittenberg at Wittenberg the next night. That gets them a shot at Calvin or Hope probably at Calvin or Hope.
Don't worry about Hope hosting all they way through. Calvin gets then in round 2.
I was just looking at the BW and CMU websites and BW doesn't start anyone (or really play anyone) that is over 6'3" (with a 6'2", 2 6'0" and 5'11" guy), while CMU's shortest player starting on saturday was 6'2" (with 2 6'4" guys and 2 6'6" guys), CMU also has a couple of 6'8" guys who come off the bench. It will be interesting to see if CMU can use their size to their advantage or if BW can stretch them out with their quickness. Both teams seem to play at similar paces, both averaging in the mid-80s in points this season. I think it will come down to outside shooting, if BW can knock down 3s, it will open up driving lanes for Davis. If CMU can shut down the outside shooting of BW and shoot well themselves (while keeping their players out of foul trouble), I think they will have the advantage. Should be fun to watch, wish I could be there.
There are a lot of interesting match-ups in terms of size. Teams that rely on big post players vs teams that get by without them. It will be interesting to see how they all pan out.
Quote from: pabegg on February 27, 2006, 12:21:42 PM
One thought on the West Region part of the bracket.
Was UW-Stout originally ranked ahead of St. Thomas, and then they were switched to avoid the Carleton-St. Thomas matchup? Or did St. Thomas really make up that many places in the regional ranking?
Also, UW-LaCrosse was in this mix as well, but was the only one close enough to Hope to move into that bracket?
As far as I can tell from presumed rankings, Stout is the 6 and St Thomas-NCC are the 8-9. That would make sense with what you're talking about. That puts Carleton at the 11. The committee for the most part, has given props to the tourney champ (the CCIW being the big exception).
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 11:22:17 AM
The big travesty is going to be Hope getting to host all the way through. A huge home court advantage. I guess this is the NCAA's way of telling us that schools who build expensive new athletic facilities get all the perks.
[Not that there's anything wrong with that!]
Uhm... well... Hope could just be getting to host because they are good, and a high seed? ??? :P
Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2006, 01:01:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 11:22:17 AM
The big travesty is going to be Hope getting to host all the way through. A huge home court advantage. I guess this is the NCAA's way of telling us that schools who build expensive new athletic facilities get all the perks.
[Not that there's anything wrong with that!]
Uhm... well... Hope could just be getting to host because they are good, and a high seed? ??? :P
Uhm ... yeah .... and somebody is going to get this advantage otherwise all could be lost without a little ... Hope :o
I just meant that by the numbers they are the #3, but I can't imagine them losing out to Witt for the sectional. If its at Wittenberg, I think that makes it a little more even. I just don't see Hope losing at home. After all, they still haven't done it yet.
Quote from: TheFence on February 27, 2006, 11:31:35 AM
Don't worry about Hope hosting all they way through. Calvin gets then in round 2.
Hmmm??? I do not believe (nor will I ever... It is Hope /Calvin afterall) Hope will cruise through Calvin if they play Sat. Night, but in their 3 meetings Calvin has only lead for 1.4 seconds! Hope has outscored them 199-169, holding them to an average of 56.3/game. Calvin will have to play their best game of the year (better than H/C II), and Hope will have to play their worst. IMHO
I may be a couple if Wisconsin Schools playing at Hope Saturday night. Wouldn't that do wonders for the greatest rivalry in Division III. You'd have all those crazy Hope fans joined by the Hope team on Lutheran's side and all the Calvin fans joined by thier team on the La Crosse side.
I'd be worried about LaCrosse, if I were Calvin. They have a good team and they've been playing well of late. That 4th match-up of MIAA royalty isn't a done deal' although if Hope's not there, it would be the biggest upset of the tournament.
Looks like the prognosticators on the final four board are all picking Va. Wesleyan to represent their bracket in the Final Four. I guess there is no love for York (who made it to the Final Four last year) or Lincoln. I guess I'll have to call my Salisbury University contacts to see how they beat Va. Wesleyan and York (twice) to help the Lincoln out ;D .
There are sleeper teams every year, and I guess because this is Lincoln's first NCAA tournament, the Lions may be the sleeper since they don't have the history that some teams have. Hopefully Kyle Myrick (D3 leading scorer and second in assists), Sami Wylie (top ten in 3 pt. scoring), and Darryl White (top ten in blocked shots) will have something to prove.
I'm picking too many other upsets to go with Lincoln. Honestly, VA Wesleyan and Amherst were the only East teams I would have picked to beat Lincoln. They just got the unlucky fortune of drawing them so early in the tournament. Your only chance may be to hope Baruch or York(NY) get in so they have more reason to let Lincoln host the sectional.
I have read several opinions stating that York will have an easy walk out of their bracket. I say they need to watch out for a the other teams in their bracket. While this bracket does not have the nationally ranked powers, it does contain the best atlantic and Mid-atlantic region schools and will be tough to get out of. I have one prediction though, if Lincoln makes it to the final four, the Rowan comparisons will start and they will say it is transfers that did it not four year players.
Quote from: knightstalker on February 27, 2006, 03:26:16 PM
I have read several opinions stating that York will have an easy walk out of their bracket. I say they need to watch out for a the other teams in their bracket. While this bracket does not have the nationally ranked powers, it does contain the best atlantic and Mid-atlantic region schools and will be tough to get out of. I have one prediction though, if Lincoln makes it to the final four, the Rowan comparisons will start and they will say it is transfers that did it not four year players.
I sure hope Rowan comparisons don't get started. You know as well as anyone that this situation is totally different.
I'm not doubting the abilities of the MA/A regions, I just think there are some teams on a level above most of them.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 11:22:17 AM
The big travesty is going to be Hope getting to host all the way through. A huge home court advantage. I guess this is the NCAA's way of telling us that schools who build expensive new athletic facilities get all the perks.
[Not that there's anything wrong with that!]
Whats the travesty? The #2 ranked team on the D3hoops.com pool getting to host throughout and someone finds away to complain about it and throw in a jab about the new facility...
I just don't get it...
I'm not sure how picking Virginia Wesleyan is the same thing as disrespecting Lincoln. Only four teams are going to make it to Salem, after all is said and done. I wish my team were in a bracket where not picking them automatically indicates "no love" and that they're a "sleeper."
I'm sure that Lincoln is a very good team, and a strong threat to win their sectional. No disrespect intended. ::) :)
Hope definitely deserves to host. They earned it. Others had their chance, but spit the bit (Wooster being among them).
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 03:32:34 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on February 27, 2006, 03:26:16 PM
I have read several opinions stating that York will have an easy walk out of their bracket. I say they need to watch out for a the other teams in their bracket. While this bracket does not have the nationally ranked powers, it does contain the best atlantic and Mid-atlantic region schools and will be tough to get out of. I have one prediction though, if Lincoln makes it to the final four, the Rowan comparisons will start and they will say it is transfers that did it not four year players.
I sure hope Rowan comparisons don't get started. You know as well as anyone that this situation is totally different.
I'm not doubting the abilities of the MA/A regions, I just think there are some teams on a level above most of them.
Many people know that, but I see it every year with Rowan football even though they have not brought in large numbers of transfers since Keeler left. Some people can't be confused with facts, their minds are already made up.
Quote from: David Collinge on February 27, 2006, 02:12:40 PM
Quote from: knightstalker on February 27, 2006, 02:10:24 PM
York, DePauw, Bridgewater and Wisc. Luth.
Oh, come on, stalker, that's a joke, right? I mean, I know you know better than to leave us hanging as to which York you mean! :D
Actually, the York v. York (sounds like a divorce case) matchup make me think of a little tune...that goes something...like this:
[sings] York, York, a town. 8)
Should Hope host and win, I predict one of the best-attended Final Fours to date:
My picks are pretty close to iwumichigander's:
IWU, Va Wesleyan, Amherst, Hope.
There's just something about those schools with Christian roots that seem to be winners.
Plus the hope of seeing Dennie Bridges on a NYT bestseller list someday swayed me.
Or the fact that there's a "Ton Ton Balenga" on a roster somewhere.
Not to $1 billion endowment, fueled by the early sales of Noah Webster's dictionaries
Or even the inherent ludicrousness of an aviator/squirrel mascot debate...
knightstalker & Hoops Fan:
I too hope the "Rowan Rumors" don't surface, but if they do I'll just have to deal with them ;D . While my youngest daughter is at Salisbury, my oldest daughter graduated from Delaware, so I'm well aware of KC Keeler's reputation at Rowan, and the fact fact that he won the 1-AA football championship in his second year at UD had the "Transfer Haters" up in arms. I have no problem with the transfers, since all the other schools has the same options available to them. If Lincoln can establish a solid reputation, maybe in the future, transfers will be a "thing of the past".
David Collinge:
I don't have an problem with others picking Va. Wesleyan, after all they are ranked higher than Lincoln. Actually the lack of discussion about Lions (except mine & a few others) takes the pressure off the Lincoln players. Sometimes it's better to be the Hunter rather than the Hunted :) .
It's not like schools don't accept transfers - some schools are more apt to get them due to finances, or the programs they offer. As long as they don't break rules, I don't have an issue with transfers.
Though at many of the smaller, liberal arts schools, it's rare to get transfers in because it takes some time to adapt to the culture of the place and to make sure your classes match up with the other students.
Quote from: hugenerd on February 27, 2006, 12:23:04 PMI think it will come down to outside shooting, if BW can knock down 3s, it will open up driving lanes for Davis.
Davis doesn't exactly drive. He posts up inside and either goes around or over bigger guys. And he's really good at it.
Quote from: Wooster Booster on February 27, 2006, 06:26:33 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on February 27, 2006, 12:23:04 PMI think it will come down to outside shooting, if BW can knock down 3s, it will open up driving lanes for Davis.
Davis doesn't exactly drive. He posts up inside and either goes around or over bigger guys. And he's really good at it.
Davis is not a driver from the ONU-BW game I watched earlier this year. He is probally the most dominant post player I have seen. However, he had several charging calls against him because he thinks he can run over people in the post. CMU needs to use this to their advantage in shutting him down. Stop Davis, you stop BW.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2006, 01:54:38 PMThat 4th match-up of MIAA royalty isn't a done deal' although if Hope's not there, it would be the biggest upset of the tournament.
I'll go so far as to say that if Hope loses to Wisconsin Lutheran it will be the biggest upset in the 32-year history of the D3 tourney. I'm pretty sure that I can make that case. I certainly haven't seen an upset of that magnitude in the quarter-century that I've been following the D3 tourney.
Hope (23-2) won the MIAA tourney and is absolutely stacked. The Dutch probably have enough talent to stock
two LMC teams. Wisconsin Lutheran (14-14) is the latest export of a lesser league that never quite figured out that the only way it could keep from getting pounded in the NCAAs was to abandon the postseason conference tourney and just give the automatic bid to their best team (which this year would've been Lakeland, a team that actually gave Hope a respectable contest in Holland over the Christmas holidays). WLC got hot and won the LMC tourney, but that doesn't make them the best representative that the LMC could've offered. Not by a mile.
Throw in the fact that the game will be played in front of somewhere around 2,000 screaming orange-clad Hope fans (I'm guessing that the 3,200-capacity DeVos Fieldhouse will be around two-thirds Hope fans, with most of the rest being Calvin fans and no more than a handful being fans of either UWL or WLC), and you're looking at a game that has all the makings of a good old-fashioned butt-whippin'.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2006, 08:31:55 PM
I'll go so far as to say that if Hope loses to Wisconsin Lutheran it will be the biggest upset in the 32-year history of the D3 tourney.
Throw in the fact that the game will be played in front of somewhere around 2,000 screaming orange-clad Hope fans (I'm guessing that the 3,200-capacity DeVos Fieldhouse will be around two-thirds Hope fans, with most of the rest being Calvin fans and no more than a handful being fans of either UWL or WLC), and you're looking at a game that has all the makings of a good old-fashioned butt-whippin'.
WLC is pretty bad. Yeah, they beat Lakeland in Milwaukee and then beat them in the tourney, but Lakeland basically choked. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few more La Crosse fans making the trip. Those guys are pretty excited over there and their fan base has doubled. Not to say they are bringing 500 or anything! La Crosse is a very solid team and though they (and I) don't know much about Calvin, or Hope for that matter, I wouldn't underestimate the Eagles. They have very good outside shooters and stud in the middle, Joe Werner.
QuoteWLC is pretty bad
Being all relative, of course.
Mind you, WLC could probably wipe the floor up with most teams in the Northeast regions.
What does everyone think of the Transylvania vs Bethany; Randolph-Macon vs Wooster, first and second round games? Along with Hope, Calvin, Wittenberg, CMU, BW, and Lake Erie all being in the same bracket? i believe this is one loaded section.
I don't know too much about RMC but I have seen Transy play about 5 or 6 times this year and I think they are a pretty good team. If they match-up with Wooster in the second round, I think Transy will give them a good game. Although, I don't know much about Wooster except that they score a lot of points and are a very good team.
Wooster is probably the better team, especially if they are shooting well. But Transy's not going to be easy for them.
I'm concerned with Wooster's first-round opponent, too, maybe even moreso. Randolph-Macon is no doubt tough.
But I have a feeling that Wooster has an advantage when playing a team for the first time. Teams that have not played against them can be surprised by their quickness and shooting ability, and how hard they push the ball up the floor. On the other hand, by the time a conference team is on the court with them for a third game, there are no more surprises.
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2006, 09:19:04 PMWLC is pretty bad. Yeah, they beat Lakeland in Milwaukee and then beat them in the tourney, but Lakeland basically choked.
Lakeland and Wisconsin Lutheran didn't play in the LMC tourney. Lakeland was knocked out by Edgewood in the semis while Wisconsin Lutheran was busy beating Marian, and Edgewood then went on to fall to Wisconsin Lutheran in the finals.
Lakeland and Wisconsin Lutheran split their home-and-home, each team winning in its own gym. The loss to WLC was the only regular-season conference defeat that the Muskies suffered this year -- and it came on December 6 in one of those anomalous early-in-the-season conference games that you usually don't see in an eight-team circuit. Lakeland went 13-1 and won the league by three full games. Wisconsin Lutheran finished in a tie for third at 8-6.
Oops, not sure what I was thinking considering some guy posted a complaint about the reffing at the Lakeland/Edgewood game and specifically said, "first your Pointers, now the Muskies" or something like that, referring to Point's loss to Edgewood. Oh well. :-\ Regardless, Lakeland CHOKED. ;)
Wisconsin get SIX teams in the big dance from three different conferences. Carroll and Lawrence from the MWC, WLC from the LMC and Whitewater, Stout and La Crosse from the WIAC. Pretty impressive. Just curious how the other states did...I remember having a discussion last year regarding the best basketball state and we even listed the Top 10 teams for each state. Now, only if Carthage can get their act together in the CCIW!!! :P
Quote from: smedindy on February 27, 2006, 10:14:30 PM
QuoteWLC is pretty bad
Being all relative, of course.
Mind you, WLC could probably wipe the floor up with most teams in the Northeast regions.
Wipe the floor could be strong, but yeah, they are probably better than some of the +.500 teams.
We should get a debate going about the worst teams in the tournament. I think York (NY), Bridgewater State and Maryville (MO) would be the front runners.
Quote from: jack johnson on February 27, 2006, 10:48:26 PM
What does everyone think of the Transylvania vs Bethany; Randolph-Macon vs Wooster, first and second round games?
I think Transy is actually prime for a first round upset. Bethany might not be as good as last year, but they are decent. So long as they haven't had their skills dulled by their awful conference, I could see them catching Transy napping. This seems like a classic speedbump game for Transy--look past the Poo B team to a match-up with a regional contender. That being said, I like the RMC-Woo winner to come out of this regional.
Quote from: Old School on February 28, 2006, 08:12:08 AM
Just curious how the other states did...
Massachusetts has eight teams in the tournament. New York state has eight as well.
Okay, I decided to make a list by state:
Massachusetts: 8
New York: 8
Pennsylvania: 8
Wisconsin: 6
Ohio: 4
Illinois: 3
Virginia: 3
California: 2
Michigan: 2
Minnesota: 2
Indiana: 1
Iowa: 1
Kentucky: 1
Maryland: 1
Mississippi: 1
Missouri: 1
New Jersey: 1
Tennessee: 1
Texas: 1
Vermont: 1
Washington: 1
Washington DC: 1
West Virginia: 1
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2006, 09:52:08 AM
We should get a debate going about the worst teams in the tournament. I think York (NY), Bridgewater State and Maryville (MO) would be the front runners.
York (NY) certainly belongs on your short list. They are average (and I'm being generous here). I've seen them play both RIT and Oswego and in neither game did they threaten the Upstate teams -- neither of whom were NCAA tourney contenders.
Just thought I'd post this here. I was listening to Mike and Mike in the Morning on ESPN radio today and they replayed the audio call of the game winning shot in the Depauw game. They explained that the call was the game winning shot for the right to go to the D3 tournament. They played the Depauw clip and a clip from an Austin Peay game where they were denied a trip to the NCAA tournament last year because of a loss on a defensive goaltending call at the buzzer. They were using them as examples of why athletes play the game and why we love the games.
That's really cool.
For me, the difference between D3 and D1...there is no way in, well, you know, that I would spend this much time on the D1 tourney... :P ;D
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2006, 10:16:11 AM
Okay, I decided to make a list by state:
Massachusetts: 8
New York: 8
Pennsylvania: 8
Wisconsin: 6
Nice list Hoops Fan, apparently, Wisconsin isn't nearly as cool as I thought they were!
Re: bad teams
I "bet" WLC loses to Hope by more than what York (N.Y.) loses to York (Pa.) :)
They were talking about the conference tournaments coming up and both said they would rather watch a MAAC tournament or Patriot league tournament because you know that these teams are fighting for a chance to play in the NCAA's as the only team from their respective conferences. They commented that while you see great games in the ACC, SEC, Big East etc tournaments you know most of the teams will make the NCAA tournament so the excitement level isn't there. It was a really good segment, they even asked for people to send exciting game winning clips to them.
them's fitin' words Hoops!!
Seriously, Maryville Mo is not too bad-
Quite honestly, I think that there is a shot for the SLIAC to get its first tourney win. Though they have a long trip, they have an opportunity to be much more competitive this weekend than if they had to face the CCIW, MWC, WIAC,or Great Lakes powerhouses.
The America East is the best tournament final in D1.
Quote from: hopefan on February 28, 2006, 11:38:54 AM
them's fitin' words Hoops!!
Seriously, Maryville Mo is not too bad-
Quite honestly, I think that there is a shot for the SLIAC to get its first tourney win. Though they have a long trip, they have an opportunity to be much more competitive this weekend than if they had to face the CCIW, MWC, WIAC,or Great Lakes powerhouses.
Ok, I apologize. So its between York (NY) and Bridgewater State.
Hoops Fan:
I agree the America East is the Best D1 Tourney. I loved it when Delaware had Mike Brey and the Fightin Blue Hens had a team to host the AE Tournament.
Go Lincoln University Lions
[/color]
And now the America East tourney features former D3 Coach of the Year Mike Lonergan, who led Catholic to a long string of tournament apperances, and, of course, a national title.
He's done a remarkable job with the Vermont Catamounts, who lost virtually everybody from the team that beat Syracuse in the NCAA's last year, but has them in the middle of the pack in the conference.
OK, I've finally done my power rating amlagamation, and here it is for the tourney.
Starting in the upper left of the bracket.
Lawrence (1)
North Central (7)
Wisc - Whitewater (8 )
Carroll (10)
Illinois Wesleyan (15)
St. Thomas (25)
DePauw (101)
++++++++++++++
Augustana (11)
Puget Sound (13)
Wisc - Stout (16)
Carleton (32)
Claremont - Mudd - Scripps (39)
Occidental (57)
Buena Vista (114)
++++++++++++++
Lincoln (12)
Virginia Wesleyan (20)
Ursinus (51)
Alvernia (53)
Messiah (60)
Farmingdale (66)
Christopher Newport (96)
+++++++++++++++
York (PA) (23)
Widener (31)
William Paterson (47)
Catholic (48)
Scranton (64)
Baruch (90)
Villa Julie (150)
York (NY) (212)
Now the other half:
Amherst (6)
Tufts (19)
Cortland State (38)
Hamilton (44)
Mass - Boston (81)
Endicott (106)
Plattsburgh State (115)
+++++++++++++++++
St. John Fisher (21)
WPI (24)
Gordon (54)
Utica (55)
Elms (107)
Bridgewater State (117)
Norwich (146)
++++++++++++++++++
Wooster (5)
Transylvania (9)
Mississippi College (22)
Randolph Macon (28 )
Trinity (TX) (29)
Bethany (41)
Maryville (TN) (43)
Maryville (MO) (118 )
+++++++++++++++++
Wittenberg (2)
Hope (3)
Baldwin - Wallace (4)
Calvin (14)
Carnegie Mellon (18)
Wisc - LaCrosse (26)
Lake Erie (73)
Wisc. Lutheran (184)
Quote from: Matt Letourneau on February 28, 2006, 12:43:22 PM
And now the America East tourney features former D3 Coach of the Year Mike Lonergan, who led Catholic to a long string of tournament apperances, and, of course, a national title.
He's done a remarkable job with the Vermont Catamounts, who lost virtually everybody from the team that beat Syracuse in the NCAA's last year, but has them in the middle of the pack in the conference.
I agree, I've been a big Catamounts fan since my few years living in the great Green North. It's nice to see the program hasn't gone totally to pot. Although, I wonder what happened to all that Coppenrath to the NBA talk?
Well, I know he got drafted by the Celtics and I believe was on their practice squad, but I don't know what happened.
Having watched Mike coach first hand for a bunch of years, I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Vermont assume position at the top of the conference -- and stay there--in the near future. He's a phenominal coach.
And as a CUA guy myself, its nice to see his former assistant, Steve Howes, take over and fill his shoes with a CAC Championship this year and a 41-16 record out of the box.
He was on the Boston summer league team - but is playing in Greece right now.
Quote from: Old School on February 28, 2006, 08:12:08 AM
Wisconsin get SIX teams in the big dance from three different conferences. Carroll and Lawrence from the MWC, WLC from the LMC and Whitewater, Stout and La Crosse from the WIAC. Pretty impressive. Just curious how the other states did...I remember having a discussion last year regarding the best basketball state and we even listed the Top 10 teams for each state. Now, only if Carthage can get their act together in the CCIW!!! :P
Carthage would technically count, of course, but it's more or less a FIB colony north of the border. Check out the rosters of their sports teams, and you'll see that, like the student body at large, there's a lot more Illinoisians than Wisconsinites.
Still, I've always imagined that the Carthage campus must be a fun place to be on the weekend of a Bears/Packers game.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2006, 02:11:06 PMI agree, I've been a big Catamounts fan since my few years living in the great Green North. It's nice to see the program hasn't gone totally to pot.
Given that this is Vermont we're talking about, I take it that there's a pun in that second sentence.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 01, 2006, 04:49:32 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2006, 02:11:06 PMI agree, I've been a big Catamounts fan since my few years living in the great Green North. It's nice to see the program hasn't gone totally to pot.
Given that this is Vermont we're talking about, I take it that there's a pun in that second sentence.
I guess it depends on your definition of pun, but pot might be the secret ingredient to a solid basketball squad in a state where cross-country running and nordic skiing championships are the most well attended high school sporting events.
Here's a mix of facts and opinion on the tournament:
Games with two premier teams
Carroll vs. Illinois Wesleyan
Carnegie Mellon vs. Baldwin-Wallace
UW-La Crosse vs. Calvin
Randolph-Macon vs. Wooster
Games with two weak teams
Norwich vs. Elms
Biggest Mismatches
York, NY vs. York, PA
Wisconsin Lutheran vs. Hope
Best Records
Lawrence (24-0)
Mississippi College (27-1)
Hope (26-2)
Worst Records
Wisconsin Lutheran (14-14)
York, NY (15-13)
Buena Vista (15-13)
Games with two weak teams
Norwich vs. Elms
I'd add Baruch vs. Villa Julie in that one.
Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 09:35:35 AM
Games with two weak teams
Norwich vs. Elms
I'd add Baruch vs. Villa Julie in that one.
That would be the #2 in that category.
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 01, 2006, 09:55:19 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 09:35:35 AM
Games with two weak teams
Norwich vs. Elms
I'd add Baruch vs. Villa Julie in that one.
That would be the #2 in that category.
Poor Baruch, never getting any respect. :)
I would not be terribly surprised if Baruch made it to the sectionals. I think they can beat Villa Julie and they have already beaten WPU this season and I think that WPU and UofS are a fairly even matchup.
Baruch's conference is heinous, as you know, and their Massey rating is 190. I just don't see it right now - but you never know. And it's all at Baruch, so that helps them.
We've dogged the NESCAC for their scheduling, yet Baruch had a great regional record and was #29 in the QOWI index, yet the toughest team they played outside of William Paterson was Farmingdale. It's not exactly a tester of a schedule, yet they host.
Ah, well...
Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 10:20:00 AM
yet they host.
Who else in that foursome would you suggest host the games?
What I would suggest is that...well...I think we've beat it to death. Something about *REAL* measures of team's strengths, etc.
I do have William Paterson as the best team of that foursome.
Quote from: smedindy on March 01, 2006, 10:44:42 AM
What I would suggest is that...well...I think we've beat it to death. Something about *REAL* measures of team's strengths, etc.
I do have William Paterson as the best team of that foursome.
But Baruch beat William Paterson head to head. I have no problem with Baruch hosting. It is only a few miles farther than William Paterson, not as difficult to get to as most imagine (if they park in NJ and take public transportation) and they have the best record in their bracket pod.
Best record does not equal better team.
Again, it's a bigger issue than that foursome - it's the price of a national tournament being played regionally.
Baruch is the favorite against Villa Julie, but if they play like they've been playing lately they could very well lose. If they play up to their potential, on the other hand, they should beat Villa Julie and they would be quite capable of beating either WPU or Scranton. Despite the fact that Baruch beat WPU and Kings, which tied Scranton for the MAC Freedom title in the regular season, I'd rate them as an underdog against both WPU and Scranton.
I would rate them the underdog also, but I like the underdog although I would like WPU to go deep for the NJAC. Like I stated earlier though, I would not be surprised if Baruch made it to the sectionals.
More useless tournament trivia:
Most tournament appearances and records through last season.
1. Wittenberg, 23 appearances 42-23
2. F&M, 19 appearances 32-23
3. Scranton, 19 appearances 32-19
4. Salem State, 19 appearances 19-20
5. IWU, 17 appearances 34-17
6. Hope, 16 appearances 17-18
7. Calvin, 15 appearances 28-16
8. CNU, 15 appearances 10-16
9. Clark MA, 15 appearances 26-15
10. NJCU, 15 appearances 17-18
11. Potsdam State, 15 appearances 36-13
12. Wooster, 14 appearances 12-14
13. Neb. Wes. 14 appearances 24-16
14. Roanoke, 13 appearances 13-15
Six tied with 12 appearances.
Gotta love those old third place games. It stinks when you've lost more tournament games than the number of tournaments you've been in. F & M is down four!
NJCU is down three, and two of those are consolation games.
interesting stat - and dicouraging
Hope's NCAA record listed above 17-18
Hope's NCAA record the two years they lost in the Championship game 9 - 2
Hope's record all other years 8 - 16
ouch
Teams that have won the title or at least made it to the title game all have at least four wins. If they win the title that is five wins in most years, and in the years of the 64 team tournament six wins. Win a couple of titles and pad your win total.
Quote from: hopefan on March 01, 2006, 02:46:18 PM
Hope's record all other years 8 - 16
What this shows to me is the relative dominance of Hope over their conference foes. The fact that they've gotten to the dance 16 times is a testiment to the program's history... even if half of those were one and done shots.
Nested in that 8-16 are tournaments that Hope did win at least the first ballgame... and in a region like the Great Lakes that has had good top teams and is often paired with the West or Midwest, I think that's still pretty good.
Hope has nothing for which Dutch fans should be ashamed. Yeah, the Hollanders have tended to make a lot of early exits, but two Final Fours and 17 wins overall are nothing to sneeze at. If you're looking for standards of persistent tourney futility you look at a school such as Christopher Newport, which is only 10-16 in spite of the fact that the South Region has not been particularly strong in the tourney over the years. In fact, the South's woes have little to do with Christopher Newport, because the Great Lakes and Midwest teams that have made a habit out of beating South teams in the middle rounds have tended to do so after the Captains had already bowed out in the first or second round.
I would've included perennial one-and-done outfit Salem State in Christopher Newport's category, but they somehow snuck through and made it to a Final Four a few years ago.
I don't have the records on me at the moment, but a couple of other teams that I can recall as having pretty dismal D3 tourney records are Beloit and Allegheny.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2006, 04:07:25 AM
Hope has nothing for which Dutch fans should be ashamed. Yeah, the Hollanders have tended to make a lot of early exits, but two Final Fours and 17 wins overall are nothing to sneeze at. If you're looking for standards of persistent tourney futility you look at a school such as Christopher Newport, which is only 10-16 in spite of the fact that the South Region has not been particularly strong in the tourney over the years. In fact, the South's woes have little to do with Christopher Newport, because the Great Lakes and Midwest teams that have made a habit out of beating South teams in the middle rounds have tended to do so after the Captains had already bowed out in the first or second round.
I would've included perennial one-and-done outfit Salem State in Christopher Newport's category, but they somehow snuck through and made it to a Final Four a few years ago.
I don't have the records on me at the moment, but a couple of other teams that I can recall as having pretty dismal D3 tourney records are Beloit and Allegheny.
In fact, I remember Christopher Newport coming into Hope in the midst of their second final four run (1998) and getting absolutely "shell-shocked" by the Dutch. Their head coach had absolutely had no clue what hit them, not having faced competition like that all season.
More tournament trivia:
Longest Current Winning Streak
Lawrence 24
Virginia Wesleyan 23
Mississippi College 22
Longest Losing Streak This Season
Wisconsin Lutheran 5 (4 vs. D3 teams)
Buena Vista 4
Shortest Winning Streak This Season
Bridgewater State 4
Mass-Boston 4
Plattsburgh State 4
DePauw 5
York, NY 5
Worst Conference Record
Plattsburgh State 8-8
DePauw 8-6
Wisconsin Lutheran 8-6
Buena Vista 10-6
UW-La Crosse 10-6
Smallest Enrollment
Lake Erie 565
Elms 573
Wisconsin Lutheran 607
Largest Enrollment
Mass-Boston 10,566
Baruch 9,364
UW-Whitewater 8,708
Why was Mass-Boston not better this year? It's not like they don't have the "pool" to draw from, considering both their enrollment and big-city status.
Quote from: devossed on March 02, 2006, 10:05:45 AM
Why was Mass-Boston not better this year? It's not like they don't have the "pool" to draw from, considering both their enrollment and big-city status.
The CUNYAC dispels the notion that large enrollment and a large population base equal good D3 basketball.
Mass-Boston always has among the best assembled talent in NE, but they, like the really good Mark Simon story (http://www.d3hoops.com/nation/) says, often have trouble with bad habits and a lack of team play. They seem to have gotten things together this year though. Cortland is a tough draw, especially when they have to travel all the way out there. This game will be on of contrasting styles, as Cortland seems to have slowed things down a bit this year. After their late season run, I'm not really suprised by anything UMass-Boston is doing.
Pat, I like the analysis in the men's preview, but on the subject of seeding. The 2006 Championship Handbook clearly says that the higher seeded team would be placed at the top of the bracket and will wear the home colors for the game. I would assume this means the top of each pair. That would imply a bunch of wierd seedings.
Would you think its more the case of the NCAA forgetting to read the Handbook or that they really screwed with the seedings?
Hoops Fan,
I noted that provision and I believe they simply erred in positioning some teams. There's no way I could justify seeding Randolph-Macon ahead of Wooster, Maryville (Tenn.) ahead of Trinity (Texas), Endicott ahead of Tufts or Messiah ahead of Alvernia.
I battled with those contradictions for quite a while before coming to my conclusions.
I had the same questions, but it is the NCAA so I remain undecided. We'll have to get reports about who's wearing white in the games this weekend.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2006, 01:20:53 PM
I had the same questions, but it is the NCAA so I remain undecided. We'll have to get reports about who's wearing white in the games this weekend.
6 p.m. -- Carnegie Mellon vs. Baldwin-Wallace
Final Score:
Box Score - Game Story
8 p.m. -- Lake Erie vs. Wittenberg
Final Score:
Box Score - Game Story
Listen Live
Witt and B-W are wearing white. Witt is on top of its pair and B-W is on the bottom of its pair. This info is from the Wittenberg web site and the NCAA bracket site.
Of course, Witt actually is a home team but that is not supposed to make a difference in the tournament.
Stupid NCAA doesn't even follow their own handbook. Why can't they forget to follow the stuff that would make a difference?
With all of this talk about who's wearing white and who isn't, you'd think that this tournament was being held after Labor Day.
What? With all the stats that have been thrown around on here for the last few weeks no one's done a study on whether the tournament is after Labor Day or before it? Well, let me pitch in here...
It's been 178 days since Labor Day, 2005. We have 186 to go until Labor Day of 2006. I hereby proclaim that this tournament is, indeed, after Labor Day. So throw away your straw hats.
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 02, 2006, 06:20:22 PM
It's been 178 days since Labor Day, 2005. We have 186 to go until Labor Day of 2006. I hereby proclaim that this tournament is, indeed, after Labor Day. So throw away your straw hats.
I get to keep my California sunglasses though, right? 8) :D
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 02, 2006, 06:20:22 PM
What? With all the stats that have been thrown around on here for the last few weeks no one's done a study on whether the tournament is after Labor Day or before it? Well, let me pitch in here...
It's been 178 days since Labor Day, 2005. We have 186 to go until Labor Day of 2006. I hereby proclaim that this tournament is, indeed, after Labor Day. So throw away your straw hats.
This weekend is but I believe next weekend the balance changes. :)
True, but the fashion police don't allow white before Memorial Day!
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2006, 08:31:35 PM
True, but the fashion police don't allow white before Memorial Day!
Thank you, Chuck. Somebody finally got my joke.
Perhaps I should have Roop start writing all my material.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2006, 02:10:52 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2006, 08:31:35 PM
True, but the fashion police don't allow white before Memorial Day!
Thank you, Chuck. Somebody finally got my joke.
Perhaps I should have Roop start writing all my material.
Don't go that far; I think he's peaked.
How come when I log in to my pick'em bracket, it appears as though the tournament were over? I have all my correct and incorrect picks marked stright through the championship game. apparently, I only got one final four team right, but that was Lawrence and apparently they won the whole thing. I knew I overslept last night, but three weeks is rediculous.
Mine is messed up, too. Has been since sometime yesterday, I think.
So what do you all have for obvious upsets tonight? I guess there are some games where both teams are about even, so neither team will be a suprise winner.
I've got Bethany over Transylvania. I think that's my big sleeper pick. It just seems like the perfect scenario for a big suprise victory.
I've got some other semi-upsets, but that's the only obvious one.
Would C-Mellon over B-W be a semi-upset?
I guess, I picked that too.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2006, 02:10:52 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 02, 2006, 08:31:35 PM
True, but the fashion police don't allow white before Memorial Day!
Thank you, Chuck. Somebody finally got my joke.
Perhaps I should have Roop start writing all my material.
We got it, we just didn't think it was that funny. ;)
Final: #5 Wooster 84 Randolph Macon 70
Wooster wins the first round NCAA tourney game. Scots were led by Tim Vandervaart with 23 points, James Cooper with 20 points and Tom Port with 14 points.
Wooster is now 26-3. Next up is the Transy-Bethany winner, tomorrow!
GO SCOTS!!
Final, William Paterson 70 Scranton 45.
Lincoln beats CNU 102-96, behinds Kyle Myricks 42 pts. 10 boards, and 9 assists. The Captains gave the Lions all they could handle and lead at the half by 8 points.
Lincoln takes on Messiah who beat Alvernia in OT in the first game tonight. Tomorrow's second round game between Lincoln and Messiah will be their second meeting this season with the Lions winning by two at the Coaches vs. Cancer tourney at York PA.
Hey, I wonder what the attendance will be at Baruch for the Villa Julie / William Patterson game?
I have a feeling William Paterson will bring a pretty good size group, they generally travel well.
Ok. I didn't know that - obviously. Duh.
But really, if this happened where the other schools were a bit more far flung, then the gym would be kind of like a mausoleum for an NCAA game - not good, right?
Wisconsin Lutheran upsets Hope
...by only losing by 42. ???
On a serious note, Calvin tops La Crosse by a score that's closer than the game actually was.
IWU takes down Carroll in a closer game than what the score would tell you.
Whitewater struggles by DePauw.
Two big CCIW/WIAC games tomorrow as Augie hosts Stout and Whitewater hosts IWU.
Still trying to find a Stevens Point score, but can't locate one...maybe they didn't play tonight! lol. :-[ :'( :(
What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west. Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool
Quote from: knightstalker on March 04, 2006, 06:57:27 AM
What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west. Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool
There is something to be said for a neutral site in the Tourney, as much as empty seats frustrate us.
ARC Arena seats about 1,200...and there were probably 1,100 last night. Villa Julie brought three buses and Paterson had a decent turnout too, probably around 200 just from my estimation.
Assuming they all come back tonight, it could be MUCH worse...
The building itself isn't huge, but it's new and an adequate host facility. 350 fans will be louder here than they would at many other places though...Yeah, if this was a midwestern school, the place would still seem empty. Not the case here in NYC.
I'm on the 31st floor of my hotel here in Times Square and the wind is ridiculous. It was 15 degrees in NYC and I thought I could feel the building sway this morning.
An aside from last night's Villa Julie/Baruch game...
Officiating was horrific all night long, but they were equal opportunity offenders. It didn't favor one side or the other, just bad all around. But I never saw this...
Baruch intentionally fouls Villa Julie player. Baruch bench goes nuts thinking that it wasn't an intentional foul. Given the situation, should be 2 shots and the ball for Villa Julie.
Baruch assistant is flipping out while VJC player goes to the line, by himself. The official who called the foul is over by the Baruch bench observing the coach flipping out. Baruch player restrains the coach just as the official puts his whistle in the mouth as he is about to call a technical. Coach is roughly restrained by player and ref turns around to see player up to check in and blows his whistle. As the whistle blows, VJC player hits first free throw, even though an official shouldn't have blown their whistle while in the act of shooting the free try. The scoreboard is not changed.
Officials confer and say they will re-shoot the 2 foul shots. Villa Julie gets one free throw and hits it...then they get the ball back. They didn't get to re-shoot the second free throw. The official scorer is right next to me and tries to call the official over to get explanation of the situation for the record...and the official refuses to come over, shaking his head that he wasn't going to stop over (game had not been resumed just yet because the ball was to be inbounded the opposite end of the floor).
So, for the record, VJC got one free throw and the ball out of the intentional foul.
Just one of a myriad of issues yesterday...but this one was the clincher. Fortunately, it didn't cost either team the game, but it certainly didn't make sense, nor did it bode well for the men in stripes.
Pat, you did feel the building sway. Many of the taller building in NYC are built to give with the wind a little. It is quite an interesting feeling. I wish they ECAC would have scheduled their tournament the way they usually do. Most years the semifinals would have been on Sat afternoon and the finals on Sunday afternoon. Then I could have attended some more games. I will be at the J-Mac for the ECAC final between Kean and NJCU. I am sure Ira will keep us updated on all the NCAA games.
Quote from: patcummings on March 04, 2006, 10:52:33 AMJust one of a myriad of issues yesterday...but this one was the clincher. Fortunately, it didn't cost either team the game, but it certainly didn't make sense, nor did it bode well for the men in stripes.
From what conference were the VJC/Baruch refs drawn? It always interests me to find out which third-party conference supplies the refs for tournament games.
Quote from: knightstalker on March 04, 2006, 10:58:15 AM
Pat, you did feel the building sway. Many of the taller building in NYC are built to give with the wind a little. It is quite an interesting feeling.
I feel the Sears Tower swaying all the time. It was engineered to move as much as a foot in any direction in high winds. I never even notice it anymore.
patcummings: The officiating wasn't particularly good in either game, but it was clearly better in the opener. Anyway, the better team won both games. Neither team can blame the refs for their defeat.
From my perspective, it looked like ARC was 3/4 filled. That would make the attendance about 900. It will be interesting to see what kind of crowd shows up tonight. Last night, the Villa Julie fans were just about as loud as the Baruch fans.
Is it always out of conference refs?
Last night, the York-York game had 1 regular CAC ref, and one other ref who does at least some CAC games. I thought it was odd. I was on my way out (my interest was the first game) so I don't know how they did.
I have a feeling the refs were most likely from the ECAC, they work more than one conference. I have seen some of the same refs that do NJAC games at CUNY and Skyline games. I know the refs for the NJAC games are ECAC refs. It is one of the things ECAC does for its members.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 09:26:11 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on March 04, 2006, 06:57:27 AM
What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west. Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool
There is something to be said for a neutral site in the Tourney, as much as empty seats frustrate us.
Absolutely. You've got to feel for the Plattsburgh player (first team all-SUNYAC and SUNYAC tourney MVP, btw) who missed both of those free throws against Hamilton. The Hamilton student section actually moved during timeout so they could be underneath the basket he was shooting at.
Quote from: bamm on March 04, 2006, 03:29:19 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2006, 09:26:11 AM
Quote from: knightstalker on March 04, 2006, 06:57:27 AM
What is a good crowd in the NYC area would be an empty house to a lot of people in the mid-west. Too many other things going on all the time that dilute the viewing pool
There is something to be said for a neutral site in the Tourney, as much as empty seats frustrate us.
Absolutely. You've got to feel for the Plattsburgh player (first team all-SUNYAC and SUNYAC tourney MVP, btw) who missed both of those free throws against Hamilton. The Hamilton student section actually moved during timeout so they could be underneath the basket he was shooting at.
Were there stands where the students moved to? I know at NJCU's gym no one is allowed to move behind the baskets while there is any kind of game action at that end and no one is allowed to sit at the visitors end of the court. I am surprised officials allowed that.
Quote from: Matt Letourneau on March 04, 2006, 03:13:45 PM
Is it always out of conference refs?
Last night, the York-York game had 1 regular CAC ref, and one other ref who does at least some CAC games. I thought it was odd. I was on my way out (my interest was the first game) so I don't know how they did.
The D3 Men's Basketball Committee is in charge of assigning refs to tournament games, which would mean that the local committee rep, Albright head coach Rick Ferry, probably assigned the refs for the York/York game. There's nothing in the D3 tourney handbook that says that refs have to come from third-party conferences; the only things the handbook says about accreditation are that membership in specific officials' accrediting organizations isn't required, and that refs are merely expected to adhere to NCAA policies while they're doing the games. It's just been my observation over the years that tournament refs tend to come from third-party conferences, which I think is a sound policy.
QuoteWere there stands where the students moved to? I know at NJCU's gym no one is allowed to move behind the baskets while there is any kind of game action at that end and no one is allowed to sit at the visitors end of the court. I am surprised officials allowed that.
Well, we built our new configurations so there would be stands at the visitors basket. Our students just didn't choose to move - but at times that's fairly full anyway.
If it was during a timeout, and there were seats there, I can see nothing that anyone could do to stop people from moving.
Two scores to report:
Tufts: 28
Cortland: 28
Halftime.
Norwich - 29
Fisher - 34
Halftime
knightstalker -- Like smedindy suggested, with open public seats, I'm not sure there's anything to do or complain about regarding the fans moving.
Tufts - 66
Cortland - 65
10 seconds left.
Ranieri misses 3 pointer at buzzer -- Tufts wins 68 - 65.
#5 Wooster's late-season tumble is complete, as they drop a 91-88 thriller at Transylvania.
Wooster ends the season at 26-4, but just 3-3 in their last 6 games.
#20 Transy moves into a tough-as-nails regional with #2 Hope, #3 Wittenberg, and either #8 Mississippi College or Maryville (TN).
Congratulations to Wooster's lone senior, Kyle Witucky, who started all 123 games of his collegiate career, setting a new record for games played in D3. Not the way he wanted to go out, however.
#1 Lawrence just gets by St. Thomas.
Witt - Hope should be great.
#2 vs #3 in the Sweet 16.
Quote from: sac on March 04, 2006, 10:17:43 PM
#2 vs #3 in the Sweet 16.
It happens to Texas teams in football all the time! :-\
We need to label this the "Geographical proximity rant" or Rant #2!
Quote from: sac on March 04, 2006, 10:17:43 PM
#2 vs #3 in the Sweet 16.
Also, pre-season #1 (IWU) against current #1 (LU).
IWU was...en fuego tonight. Wow. What a team, what a performance. Good luck.
So much for the mighty WIAC...three teams in the tourney and none make it to the Sweet 16.
Quote from: ephoops on March 05, 2006, 12:56:34 AM
So much for the mighty WIAC...three teams in the tourney and none make it to the Sweet 16.
I'm not sure why that should surprize you... each WIAC team was beaten by a higher ranked (in the top 25) team.
Many WIAC fans have said all along this season that the WIAC was down compared to years in the past. I think next year, the Wisconsin league will be up compared to this year, but in 2 and 3 years, the league will again be great (when the underclassmen are upperclassmen).
Quote from: ephoops on March 05, 2006, 12:56:34 AM
So much for the mighty WIAC...three teams in the tourney and none make it to the Sweet 16.
Nice effort taking a shot at the WIAC. I seem to remember that the CCIW is a pretty good conference too...some say the best
this year.
Whitewater ran into a buzz saw and it had IWU written on it's handle. Wow. IWU was also the preseason #1 ranked team. So, i guess losing to them isn't a disgrace! I don't think a D3 all-star team would've beaten the Titans tonight. They were unbelievable.
Stout beat Augustana in Menomonie earlier in the season and this was the rematch in Illinois. Augustana won the CCIW this year. The Blue Devils shouldn't be ashamed for losing to the CCIW champs.
La Crosse, the
5th place team in the WIAC took on Calvin, winners of the MIAA...a very good conference at the top along with Hope and Albion. I would say that Calvin was the favorite there too.
The WIAC is still a very strong conference and I am looking forward to a new season next year.
Better three teams in than just one...
There will be two more teams playing each other for the fourth time, as Utica goes 2-0 against NE region teams and Fisher disposes of Norwich. They'll play in the Sweet 16 to guarantee an Empire 8 team in the Final 8.
The Hoopsville Curse has apparently ended but has a new curse started ??? There is a trend with teams that win by 8 in this years tournament. 6 teams have done so and the 4 that have played their next games have all lost. Puget Sound and Virginia Wesleyan need not show up for the next round.
2 questions please:
What time are we expected to hear which schools will host??
Which school will host that AMAZING GL region?
THANKS and GO HOPE!!!
Sometime in the afternoon. There usually isn't a set time for the announcement.
Pat -
Aw, c'mon, we all know that it's you and your henchmen that make these decisions and then inform the NCAA what to do. You can tell us, we'll keep a lid on it and go along with the NCAA's charade as they pretend to be in charge. ;)
Ha... Well, this is what I anticipate: Amherst, Virginia Wesleyan, Hope, Augustana. But we'll see.
The Appleton Post Crescent this morning has quotes from Steve Larson, the chairman of the NCAA D3 championship committee, who was at the Lawrence/St. Thomas game last. He said Lawrence has a "very good" chance of hosting their sectional. It also says there have been talks about clearing the gym out between semi-final games to allow more fans to attend. Here is the link:
http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060305/APC0201/603050576/1892/APCsports
Hope is headed to Witt
The Flying Dutchmen will travel to Wittenberg University in Springfield, Ohio for the NCAA Division III Sectional Tournament next Friday, the NCAA has announced. Hope (28-2) will play the host Tigers (27-3) in the second game of Friday's doubleheader at a time to be announced. The first game will pit Mississippi College (28-1) against Transylvania, Ky. (26-4). Friday's winners will meet on Saturday at a time to be announced.
To get a feel for how well the remaining teams did in the NCAA tournament games they've played so far, I computed an average Massey power rating for the games played, taking into account the result, the power rating of the opponent, and a home court advantage. Here's what I came up with:
Wittenberg 34
IL Wesleyan 29
Amherst 24
Hope 22
Miss Coll 21
Wm. Patterson 21
Transylvania 19
Tufts 15
Lincoln 13
Augustana 11
Lawrence 9
St John Fisher 9
Utica 9
Widener 9
Puget Sound 6
VA Wesleyan 6
Of course, there's lots of variability when you look at the results of two, or in some cases only one, game, but Wittenberg, and to a lesser extent Ill. Wesleyan, really stand out from the crowd.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 12:32:21 PM
I feel the Sears Tower swaying all the time.... I never even notice it anymore.
Greg... read this again and tell me if you think it makes any sense. :D :P ;) :)
I know I'm going to offend some here, but it seems like the NCAA bracketing has struck again. In every region the two strongest (in my opinion) teams are matched against each other.
IWU-Lawrence
Amherst-Tufts
Hope-Wittenberg
VA Wesleyan-Lincoln
I'm guessing the final four comes from these four games, no matter the outcome. It's quite interesting to note.
William Paterson has only given up 93 points in two games so far. Granted they weren't offensive powerhouses but WPU did hold both to more than twenty less than their season average. They are an athletic, well coached defense first team. It appears that Jose has them well prepared and we will see if it continues. It would not shock me to see WPU come out of VA Beach with a trip to the final four. They should be able to win against Widener and I think they will make it hard on either VW or Lincoln.
The other school that I think deserves a little recognition is Farmingdale State. From the game story it sounds like they really gave Lincoln a game. I think the seniors on this years Farmingdale State team are the first class to go through as four year students, they have only been D3 for a few years and to win their conference and win a first round game in their first trip to the NCAA's ever is a pretty good acomplishment.
I did some research as a result of a question on the Pool B board. I think its applicable here too. For right now it only goes back to 1998, when the tournament was reduced from 64 teams.
Maryville (TN) is now at 8 years and counting having won at least one game in the tournament.
Amherst is now at 7 and counting.
The next highest active streaks are:
Wooster-4
Lawrence, Puget Sound, and St John Fisher at 3
Calvin, Miss Coll, VA Wes, WPI, and York (PA) are all at 2
The longest consecutive streaks since 1998:
Maryville-8 (99-present)
Amherst-7 (00-present)
Catholic-5 (98-02)
Wooster-4 (03-present)
Rochester-4 (02-05)
Hampden-Sydney-4 (01-04)
Lawrence-3 (04-present)
Puget Sound-3 (04-present)
St John Fisher-3 (04-present)
Hamilton-3 (98-00)
William Paterson-3 (99-01)
John Carroll-3 (03-05)
Salem State-3 (03-05)
Randolph Macon-3 (02-04)
Williams-3 (02-04)
Franklin-3 (98-00)
Gustavus Adolphus-3 (01-03)
Lewis & Clark-3 (00-02)
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2006, 09:53:46 AM
I know I'm going to offend some here, but it seems like the NCAA bracketing has struck again. In every region the two strongest (in my opinion) teams are matched against each other.
IWU-Lawrence
Amherst-Tufts
Hope-Wittenberg
VA Wesleyan-Lincoln
I'm guessing the final four comes from these four games, no matter the outcome. It's quite interesting to note.
Rather, I applaud your ability to assess quality in the various regions and you predicted the 8 best remaining teams!
Knightstalker: You're right about Farmingdale State. The Rams do deserve some recognition. They actually had a seven-point lead against Virginia Wesleyan with 6:15 remaining in the game, but they couldn't get it done in crunch time. Not bad for a Skyline team on the road against the #7 team in the country.
Rhodes, I have watched them play NJCU for the last four years at least and they have gotten better each year. They are building a nice program there. They also do not seem afraid to play tougher competition. It would be nice to see them add another north Jersey NJAC team to their schedule.
knightstalker: Their top three scorers are seniors so they'll have a void to fill next year. But from what I've heard, their coach is ambitious and a good recruiter. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year. He's certainly done a good job since taking over the team.
He has some good recruiting ground, I think there is probably a lot of D3 talent on long island that has been overlooked by many schools.
Quote from: - on March 06, 2006, 02:27:09 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 12:32:21 PM
I feel the Sears Tower swaying all the time.... I never even notice it anymore.
Greg... read this again and tell me if you think it makes any sense. :D :P ;) :)
Sure it does. Most of the stimuli that activate our sensory organs do not register within conscious thought. Think of walking down a busy sidewalk in Chicago or Washington DC. You see hundreds of people, and the vast majority of them will never so much as make a dent in your conscious perception. Or think of the background noise in a crowded room. You continue to hear it while you carry on conversation with someone, but your brain filters it out.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 07:39:02 AM
Quote from: - on March 06, 2006, 02:27:09 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 12:32:21 PM
I feel the Sears Tower swaying all the time.... I never even notice it anymore.
Greg... read this again and tell me if you think it makes any sense. :D :P ;) :)
Sure it does. Most of the stimuli that activate our sensory organs do not register within conscious thought. Think of walking down a busy sidewalk in Chicago or Washington DC. You see hundreds of people, and the vast majority of them will never so much as make a dent in your conscious perception. Or think of the background noise in a crowded room. You continue to hear it while you carry on conversation with someone, but your brain filters it out.
Wow, he got you.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 07, 2006, 07:39:02 AM
Quote from: - on March 06, 2006, 02:27:09 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2006, 12:32:21 PM
I feel the Sears Tower swaying all the time.... I never even notice it anymore.
Greg... read this again and tell me if you think it makes any sense. :D :P ;) :)
Sure it does. Most of the stimuli that activate our sensory organs do not register within conscious thought. Think of walking down a busy sidewalk in Chicago or Washington DC. You see hundreds of people, and the vast majority of them will never so much as make a dent in your conscious perception. Or think of the background noise in a crowded room. You continue to hear it while you carry on conversation with someone, but your brain filters it out.
Sort of like drastic depth changes in a submarine. Eventually you don't hear the hull expanding and contracting or notice the angle that you are walking on or the pressure changes.
Quote from: knightstalker on March 07, 2006, 10:06:15 AM
Sort of like drastic depth changes in a submarine. Eventually you don't hear the hull expanding and contracting or notice the angle that you are walking on or the pressure changes.
Are you speaking from experience there?
I might be rabbit, I might be.
Man this place is dead. You'd think they weren't playing games until Friday or something.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2006, 03:14:02 PM
Man this place is dead. You'd think they weren't playing games until Friday or something.
One gets the impression that the only teams left in the tournament are those that realize the only talking that is left will be done on the court!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2006, 03:33:16 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2006, 03:14:02 PM
Man this place is dead. You'd think they weren't playing games until Friday or something.
One gets the impression that the only teams left in the tournament are those that realize the only talking that is left will be done on the court!
You are right Ralph. The only talking that really counts is on the court at this point!
That doesn't stop some of us who paralyze with analysis - or somethin' like that!
Ah... the Sweet 16!!!
Just 32 teams remain... for a chance at two titles. But after some upsets in the first weekend, can the favorites still make it to Springfield and Salem?
We'll try and figure it out tonight... on Hoopsville!!!
Upsets and shockers went right along with blow-outs and favorites winning this past weekend. But we still have two more weekends of basketball. So, we will chat with Scranton Coach Mike Strong, Utica Coach Andrew Goodemonte, and Widener Coach David Duda about how their teams are getting ready for the travel, the pressure, and the expectations... oh, and their games this weekend.
And how are the Final Four preparations going? Glad you asked. We will also talk with ODAC Commissioner Brad Bankston about how the ODAC, Salem, and the NCAA are getting ready for the Men's Final Four in 16 or so days.
Oh, and we didn't forget about the games. The regional reporters are jammed into the show like a basketball team on a 15 passenger van. They will give you their thoughts on the opening weekend and who they think will survive to the Final Four.
All that along with the other reports from around D3 and your questions and comments... TONIGHT on Hoopsville!!!
I've compiled the list of schools that have made the most D3 tourney appearances without ever reaching the Final Four. It's significant, because a couple of these programs are playing this weekend for the chance to remove themselves from the list. Schools that have not even reached the Elite Eight are asterisked:
Christopher Newport (first appearance, 1986), 16
Maryville (TN) (first appearance, 1991), 13
Ripon (first appearance 1978), 12*
Buffalo State (first appearance, 1984), 12
St. John Fisher (first appearance, 1992), 12*
Pomona-Pitzer (first appearance, 1986), 11*
Washington (MO) (first appearance, 1987), 11
Albany State (first appearance, 1975), 10
St. Lawrence (first appearance, 1975), 9
Allegheny (first appearance, 1975), 9*
Staten Island (first appearance, 1981), 9*
Randolph-Macon (first appearance, 1990) 9*
Hamilton (first appearance, 1995), 9*
Beloit (first appearance, 1977), 8*
Central (first appearance, 1977), 8*
Rose-Hulman (first appearance, 1977), 8
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (first appearance, 1984), 8*
Mississippi College (first appearance, 1998), 8*
Albany State, which now styles itself UAlbany, moved out of D3 in 1995 and spared the Great Danes any further D3 tourney futility. They had a very solid program throughout the seventies, eighties, and early nineties under Doc Sauers, as did Buffalo State under Dick Bihr, but neither program was ever able to make any headway in the D3 tournament, mostly because of Jerry Welsh's Potsdam State teams.
What's remarkable about Murvul is that they've won games in the last eight tournaments, including this year's. The Scots just can't seem to make it to the next level.
St. John Fisher and Mississippi College can exorcise a lot of demons this weekend.
Maryville have made the tournament 13 out of the last 15 years? Wow, that's quite impressive. They also have that monster winning streak going on. Great job building a program. A win next year ties them with Potsdam for the longest streak. You have to wonder if perhaps that reputation figured into the Pool B considerations this year.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2006, 12:37:53 PMSt. John Fisher and Mississippi College can exorcise a lot of demons this weekend.
Not pretending to be an expert on demons and the like, but I'd give Mississippi College the edge in opportunities here, playing Transylvania. If they can't exorcise some dracula-types, they'll at least be able to exercise them, bouncing them around inside and running them up and down the court.
Alright, I'm pushing it here. Bring on the games, I'm ready to watch! :)
:D Love it... but then I'm one of those people who laugh at everything. :P ;D
It would be great if MC handed out wooden stakes to all their fans. One of the best crowd participations ever.
Mix the Gatorade with Holy Water. ;D
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 10, 2006, 01:39:22 PMNot pretending to be an expert on demons and the like, but I'd give Mississippi College the edge in opportunities here, playing Transylvania.
I have to disagree with that, WooBoo. St. John Fisher is playing Utica tonight, a team that they've already beaten three times this season:
1/6 @ UC: St. John Fisher 66, Utica 58
2/4 @ SJF: St. John Fisher 82, Utica 70
2/25 @ SJF: St. John Fisher 74, Utica 61
I see the Fishies making it 4-for-4 tonight and reaching their first-ever Elite Eight. Even though they'd then probably have to beat Amherst on the Jeffs' home floor in order to get to Salem, I think that their chances of doing so are at least as good as Mississippi College's would be for beating either Hope or Wittenberg if the Chocs make it past Nosferatu U. tonight.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2006, 02:47:31 PM
Nosferatu U
We have a winner: Most clever school nickname in d3hoops.com history.
I am hereby abandoning my attempt to have them called Tranny and casting my lot with the Nosferatu U Crew.
How they did last weekend. Computing an average Massey power rating for the two games played in the last two days gives a measure of how well teams did:
IL Wesleyan 21.8
Wittenberg 21.2
Amherst 20.9
VA Wesleyan 11.2
Looks like there are three teams that played about equally well last weekend. VA Wesleyan would be a 10 point underdog to any of them.
Dark Knight -
I think that 2 games is not nealy enough to use the Massey system on. That being said, I pretty sure the bottom 2 teams are rigth. I think the top 2 might be interchangeable.
C
It seems like Witt and IWU are on a collision course. I think Witt's depth will be too much for Amherst and I can't see IWU getting slowed down all that much by VA Wesleyan, especially as all the pressure will be on Virginia to keep up with the "All-Americas." The IWU guys will feel pressure, but probably no more than they've been dealing with for the last month; I don't see it having the same effect. There is also the little matter of the size difference.
Hoops Fan - I believe the real pressure came off IWU when their dance card got punched. The outside pressure during the CCIW season and its tournament was nothing compared to the pressure this IWU team put on themselves.
Going into the regional contest, you could see and feel a difference, a good difference, in IWU. Coming into the sectional, the Titans had confidence, poise and determination which one could see in their eyes. In NCAA Tournament play, this IWU team has demonstrated its consistantly capable to bring the mental toughness along with the physical skills and athleticism to play 40 minutes that is required to get to the Final Four.
If the Titans are well prepared its a credit to the entire CCIW where no team backed down from IWU (or, Augustana, North Central or Elmhurst for that matter). Game after game, CCIW opponents would have unlikely players step up with career games to challenge IWU. I can't think of another conference in recent years that so well prepared in a single season the three CCIW teams that made the tournament for post season play.
I just wanted as many DIII fans as I could know that two DIII stars, Adam Dauksas of IWU, and Kyle Witucky of Wooster are finalists for the Bob Cousy Award. The Cousy Award is given to college basketball's best point guard. Among the other finalists are Dee Brown and Gerry McNamara, so this is quite an honor. There is fan voting available at http://www.cousyaward.com. You can vote everyday.
Ok, this PROBABLY isn't appropriate for this board... but... it DOES deal with the 05-06 Tourney. It's just the D-I tourney. At least it deals with a (former, I'm almost sure) D-3 player...
John Bunch, formerly of Lincoln (PA), is now playing for Monmouth (NJ). He played on Tuesday in the (play-in) first round game in Dayton. Read me (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=260732405).
That's gotta be the same John Bunch who set the D-3 record (twice) two years ago with 12 blocks. I mean, how many 7-2 320 lb. guys are there running around the East Coast, named John Bunch...
The thing is, it says that the coach's wife found him working at a movie theater... and it doesn't say anything about his time at Lincoln in his career stats (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27792). His eligibility says he's a Junior (so he obviously DID play (somewhere... we all know it was Lincoln)... but ESPN won't give D-3 the props. I wonder if this note will make it into the OTL tonight... T-minus 2 hours until the D-3 show is on!
They did mention it a lot on the broadcast, though.
Really? I didn't watch the (play-in) game. I had more important (meaningful, entertaining...) things to do. Like... anything else.
Surprizingly, this game wasn't close... I think most of the (play-in) opening game rounds have been very close... in other words, grit one out to be destroyed by 40.
I was just watching ESPN and tonight's Outside the Lines documented the DIII national tournament. Lincoln and Illinois Wesleyen were the main teams followed in the piece. If anyone is up early, the piece is rebroadcast at 6:40 and 7:40 am EST tomorrow.
He's 7-2, 320? Maybe Monmouth can take down the five guard offense of Villanova?
In all honesty though, its ORU, who will be the first 16 to win. They got screwed; I thought they'd be at least a 14. Tutt and Green all the way, baby.
Nah, Oral Roberts got a fair seed. They were #107 on my rankings. Sagarin and Pomeroy's in the 120s.
That is very high for a 16, but they are just below Davidson, who is the lowest 15 on my rankings.
I don't care about your computers. Have you seen them play? They're better than S Alabama and Murray State, although they aren't better than the other two 14s.
PointSpecial:
Monmouth's John Bunch is the same guy that played at Lincoln his freshmen year and set the d3 record. If you go to Monmouth's website, they mention he played for Coach Byars at Lincoln. I was also puzzled as to why Bunch didn't play last year.
I saw Bunch play as a freshman when Lincoln lost to Montclair State, and I saw him play at Fairleigh Dickenson University last week when the Hawks won the NEC tourney. Bunch has gotten better, and he's big enough to clog up the middle. Can you imagine what Lincoln would have looked like with Bunch in the post?
I watched the Monmouth Hampton game and the biggest problem with Bunch is his knees and conditioning. He needs to drop about twenty pounds and his game would improve. He will get a look at the next level because to use the old tired coach cliche; You can't coach 7'2" and 300+ lbs. Bunch and one guard just dominated Hampton. They are a well coached team and I am rooting for Monmouth to beat Villanova.
Quote from: njlincolnlion on March 16, 2006, 10:18:31 AM
Can you imagine what Lincoln would have looked like with Bunch in the post?
I can only imagine. I wonder, though, if Myrick would have been able to score as much as he did with a big guy like Bunch eating up space in the middle. That's a wide load to get around!
Quote from: njlincolnlion on March 16, 2006, 10:18:31 AM
PointSpecial:
Monmouth's John Bunch is the same guy that played at Lincoln his freshmen year and set the d3 record. If you go to Monmouth's website, they mention he played for Coach Byars at Lincoln. I was also puzzled as to why Bunch didn't play last year.
Bunch had to sit out a year
moving to D1. An athlete does not need to sit out a year
coming from D1.
That makes sense Ralph, I forgot about that rule. I wondered what happened between his frosh and junior years.
... speaking of, does he lose that year of eligibility, or did he just have to sit out (and does that allow him to practice with the team... essentially similar to a redshirt year?)
I don't think you get that year back, but maybe I'm wrong. I seem to recall it working both ways in recent years. Someone else will probably have to clarify.
QuoteI don't care about your computers. Have you seen them play? They're better than S Alabama and Murray State, although they aren't better than the other two 14s.
I've seen them all play. Frankly, they're good, but the MidCon was atrocious this year. South Alabama won the Sun Belt, and they beat a very good Western Kentucky team to do so. Murray State is always good. I think both of those teams could take Oral Roberts.
But I always feel that using power rankings take any 'home town' bias out of it. It's clear and objective if you use the data wisely.
Quote from: smedindy on March 16, 2006, 01:59:51 PM
But I always feel that using power rankings take any 'home town' bias out of it. It's clear and objective if you use the data wisely.
I've only been to Oklahoma City once and I've been trying ever since to block the memories. There's no home town bias here. I just want to be driving the bandwagon the first time a 16 upsets a 1.
Even if that 16 beats a 1, it doesn't mean ORU was better than South Alabama or Murray State. Frankly, it means Memphis was overrated and that ORU played well.
That's fine and now that I see the games, maybe S Alabama is decent in their own right. I'll stick with Murray State though. ORU is better than Murray State.
Lol... I like how I don't even know what divisions these schools are in.
However, I do know that they aren't DIII schools, is there a reason that we are talking about them on this board? ???
dhf,
They're all d1; and being discussed because there is NOTHING to talk about with d3 until tomorrow, and the posters are stir-crazy! ;)
When transfers have to sit out a year, they do NOT lose that year of eligibility.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 16, 2006, 08:19:40 PM
When transfers have to sit out a year, they do NOT lose that year of eligibility.
I thought there was some caveat about that, like they lose the year if they stay in the conference or something like that?
No. Many conferences have a rule that they can't accept another scholarship from another conference school. I know the Big 10 has that rule.
Quote from: smedindy on March 17, 2006, 10:24:51 AM
No. Many conferences have a rule that they can't accept another scholarship from another conference school. I know the Big 10 has that rule.
I believe if an athlete transfers from one WIAC school to another WIAC school, they have to sit out a year. Point Special could probably confirm this.
During my 4 years, this didn't happen across the league, but I believe it did the season (or two) before I came. I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure the player had to sit out, and I think he lost that year of eligibility.
Some really good D3 teams are home while their opponents are still playing.
To open the 2005-06 season, East Texas Baptist went to Northwestern St LA and barely lost, 74-77 (http://www.d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=48873).
Northwestern State LA knocked the Hawkeyes and former Manchester (http://www.manchester.edu/OCA/PR/Files/News/100YearsAthletics.htm) head coach Steve Alford from the D-1 Tourney tonight.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2006, 02:00:44 AM
Some really good D3 teams are home while their opponents are still playing.
And some really good D3 teams are still playing...Virginia Wesleyan, Amherst, Illinois Wesleyan and Wittenberg! lol. ;D I'm sure all four deserve to be there.
Nice upsets in the D1 tourney though. So much for "chalk".
What makes the NCAA playoffs so much fun is the parity in all divisions!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2006, 02:00:44 AM
Some really good D3 teams are home while their opponents are still playing.
To open the 2005-06 season, East Texas Baptist went to Northwestern St LA and barely lost, 74-77 (http://www.d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=48873).
Northwestern State LA knocked the Hawkeyes and former Manchester (http://www.manchester.edu/OCA/PR/Files/News/100YearsAthletics.htm) head coach Steve Alford from the D-1 Tourney tonight.
That was a great game, I watched in on the NCAAsports.com feed. My Monmouth Hawks lost to Villanova though. I was pulling for monmouth and former Lincoln player John Bunch, they played them tough and that is what counts and they didn't quit.
Great game last night between Witt and Amherst.
Man, can Amherst shoot those 3s.
Go Tigers!
I suppose, instead of opening up another thread, Pat (or someone of equal importance :D ) could just change this "title" to 2006-2007 Men's Basketball Tourney. ;) ::)
Nah, someone can start a new one.
We are less than a week away from knowing who is in the tournament (and who is out) and a week away from knowing the actual brackets.
Pat suggested someone start a new string for this year's tournament... so I have.
Post away!!!
So, was the 2006 Men's National Tournament not a "Championship" tournament like the 2007 version? lol ;D :D ;)
lol... :)
I wasn't quite sure where comment on the site's projections posted on the front page. I figure since it's the projections for the 2007 Men's NCAA Tournament (hey, someone took out the "championship!" lol), this is the place to do it.
I would be pleasantly surprised to see if Pat and Co. are right and give the WIAC TWO Pool C bids. I have mixed feelings about it because, 1) it gives the conference a better shot at getting one or more teams to the Final Four (I'm one of those guys who will cheer for our conference if MY team doesn't make it...yeah, I cheered for the Bears and I consider myself a Packer fan) and on the other hand 2) I don't want to have to play a WIAC team to get to the Final Four (like 2000 when we lost to Eau Claire in the Elite Eight)
I guess I wasn't too surprised to see THREE UAA teams get bids or even the CCIW only getting their Pool A bid (I guess Elmhurst's QOWI was too low). No Wittenberg?
Comments?
Oh yeah, regarding your "byes"...
I'm guessing Point in the West, Lake Erie in the Great Lakes (considering your comment about four teams in their small gym), Amherst in the Northeast and Augustana AND Washington U in the Midwest...I suppose, since the "seedings" are listed!
If that's how it's set up, I don't like Loras v La Crosse with the winner going to Point...of course, Loras beat La Crosse at the beginning of the year.
Since seeding isn't a real big issue, looking at the geography, Whitworth and Oxy could play each other and fly them to Quandt, while La Crosse, Aurora and Loras could bus to St. Thomas, right?
The new tournament design (with three-team and four-team regionals) changes the thinking about flights a little bit. Consider the Oxy/Whitworth scenario. Conventional wisdom would suggest that they should be paired up on Thursday, since they are fly-anywhere orphans, and send the winner to meet a bye team on Saturday (probably Point.) That's two round trip flights--one along the west coast, and one for the winner to Wisconsin and back. But if, instead, you send both to a four-team regional somewhere, it's still just two flights--each team to and from the midwest. It looks to me like Oxy and Whitworth meet on Thursday out west only if the committee feels that one or the other shouldn't be denied a home game; otherwise they both come east to play Friday.
I suppose, then it's Loras v La Crosse driving to Loras and then a trip to Point. BOOOO!
DC, That sounds like it makes sense to me according to your analysis of the flight options. The only question I had in regards to the western teams was Chapman. Will they be in the tourney as a pool b? If so could that change the situation in the west with Oxy and Whitworth?
Those who follow Pool B closely all seem to agree that Chapman is out.
just about to say that. I think i read their QOWI very wrong. So nevermind to Chapman, but along th lines of WW and Oxy, who do you see as the host if the decision is to let those two play it out west and then move the winner east?
Where on NCAA.ORG will the teams be posted??
Bucs, just so you know, WW is much more common abbreviation for Whitewater than Whitworth. On the national board, its usually not a great idea to abbreviate your school name. I think the hosting nod is really up in the air. There are good arguments for both. We won't know until tomorrow. :)
Quote from: ILive4This on February 25, 2007, 09:57:13 PM
Where on NCAA.ORG will the teams be posted??
The best way to find out is 1) keep refreshing the front page 2) listen to Hoopsville (link on front page). This site is really good at getting things in right away, and it will be much easier to locate. :)
DHF, Thanks for the comment I will use WhitW from now on and UWWW for university of wisconsin white water or WW
p.s. I like the pic
Congrats to everyone who made the Dance. I am particularly surprised that Guilford made it into the dance over both UW OshKosh and UW LaCrosse. Can't wait to see the brackets tomorrow.
One team EACH from the West and Midwest? Wow. The UAA got 3 Pool C bids, the NESCAC got 2 and ODAC got 2. Wow.
aurora
westminster
lincoln
maryville
amherst
brandeis
chicago
depauw
guilford
hood
hope
john carroll
keene st
mary hardin baylor
messiah
rochester
st johns
Brockport
Stevens
Trinity
Va Wesleyan
WPI
It looks like NJCU racks up another ECAC title. I don't mind the fact that the Knights did not get in, they lost some early games they should have won and they should have taken care of business friday night. What bugs me is WPI and Stevens getting in, two teams that probably aren't as good as WPU, Kean and TCNJ but because of the NCAA's way of doing things are considered better teams. The WIAC teams deserve to be in more than those two do. I mean if Coast Guard gets your conferences Pool A bid, you don't deserve to go to the NCAA's.
Quote from: Knightstalker on February 25, 2007, 10:50:49 PM
It looks like NJCU racks up another ECAC title. I don't mind the fact that the Knights did not get in, they lost some early games they should have won and they should have taken care of business friday night. What bugs me is WPI and Stevens getting in, two teams that probably aren't as good as WPU, Kean and TCNJ but because of the NCAA's way of doing things are considered better teams. The WIAC teams deserve to be in more than those two do. I mean if Coast Guard gets your conferences Pool A bid, you don't deserve to go to the NCAA's.
WPI had the 6th highest QOWI in the country. They only have 3 losses. According to the NCAAs criteria, they have to be there.
I think I noted that. Coast Guard winning the NEWMAC is like Rutgers Camden winning the NJAC. A team that only wins one or two conference games just shouldn't be in a conference tournament period. This is why I hate conference tournaments that give every team a chance. Why play the regular season, it is a rediculus as the NBA and NHL playoffs.
Atlantic Region
1. (44) Stevens 21-6 21-6 (LOST in Skyline Semis) POOL C
2. (13) Ramapo 21-7 20-5 (Won NJAC AQ)
3. (39) Manhattanville 23-5 22-5 (Won Skyline AQ)
4. (55) New Jersey City 18-9 17-8 (LOST to Ramapo in NJAC Final)
5. (74) Rowan 20-6 15-6 (LOST to Ramapo in NJAC Semis)
East Region
1. (19) Brockport State 23-5 22-5 (LOST to Plattsburgh State in SUNYAC Final) POOL C
2. (15) St. John Fisher 22-5 21-5 (Won Empire 8 AQ)
3. (11) St. Lawrence 22-5 21-5 (Won Liberty League AQ)
4. (46) New York U. 19-6 18-6 (lost to Brandeis, needs a Pool C)
5. (20) Rochester 18-7 18-6 (beat Carnegie Mellon, still needs a Pool C) POOL C
Great Lakes Region
1. (4) Lake Erie 25-2 21-1 (Won AMCC AQ)
2. (27) Wooster 25-3 20-2 (Won NCAC AQ)
3. (31) John Carroll 19-9 18-7 (LOST to Capital in OAC Final) POOL C
4. (36) Hope 23-4 16-4 (LOST to Calvin in MIAA Final) POOL C
5. (52) Ohio Northern 19-7 14-7 (LOST to Otterbein in OAC Quarters)
6. (62) Wittenberg 22-5 17-5 (LOST to Ohio Wesleyan in NCAC Semis)
Middle Atlantic Region
1. (30) Johns Hopkins 22-4 21-3 (plays Haverford in Centennial Finals)
2. (32) Messiah 19-6 16-4 (LOST to Widener in MAC-Commonwealth Semis) POOL C
3. (42) Alvernia 23-4 22-2 (Won PnAC AQ)
4. (25) Lincoln (Pa.) 18-8 11-3-IND: POOL B
5. (21) Catholic 22-5 21-5 (Won CAC AQ)
6. (40) Hood 21-7 20-6 (LOST to Catholic in CAC Final) POOL C
7. (37) King's (Pa.) 19-8 19-7 (Won MAC-Freedom AQ)
8. (45) Scranton 19-7 17-7 (LOST to DeSales in MAC-Freedom Semis)
Midwest Region
1. (12) Chicago 20-5 19-5 (LOST to Washington U., needs Pool C bid) POOL C
2. (18) Augustana 22-5 22-4 (Won CCIW AQ)
3. (9) Washington U. 12-4 18-4 (defeats Chicago in UAA, gets UAA AQ)
4. (14) Aurora 25-2 24-2 (Won NathCon Final: POOL B
5. (57) Elmhurst 21-6 17-6 (LOST to Augustana in CCIW Final)
6. (73) Carthage 16-9 13-8 ([Reg. season complete, did not make CCIW tourney)
7. (64) Grinnell 17-7 16-7 (LOST to Lake Forest in MWC Semis)
8. (70) Wheaton (Ill.) 17-9 13-8 (LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW Semis)
Northeast Region
1. (2) Amherst 25-2 24-2 (LOST to Williams in NESCAC Final) POOL C
2. (8 ) Salem State 24-2 24-2 (Won MASCAC AQ)
3. (7) Trinity (Conn.) 21-4 17-4 (LOST to Williams in NESCAC Semis) POOL C
4. (3) WPI 22-3 20-3 (LOST to Coast Guard in NEWMAC Final) POOL C
5. (6) Rhode Island 24-3 24-3 (Won LEC AQ)
6. (26) Keene State 23-5 20-5 (LOST to Rhode Island in LEC Final) POOL C
7. (17) Brandeis 19-6 19-6 (defeated NYU, still needs a Pool C) POOL C
8. (47) Bates 18-7 17-7 (LOST to Amherst in NESCAC Quarters)
9. (49) Husson 22-6 22-4 (LOST to Elms in NAC Final)
10. (80) Western New England 19-8 19-8 (LOST to Emmanuel in GNAC Semis)
South Region
1. (10) Mississippi College 24-2 22-1 (plays Hardin-Simmons in ASC Final)
2. (24) Va. Wesleyan 23-4 22-4 (LOST to Hampden-Sydney in ODAC Semis) POOL C
3. (51) Guilford 21-4 20-4 (LOST to Bridgewater (Va) in ODAC Quarters) POOL C
4. (38) DePauw 22-5 19-4 (LOST to Trinity (TX) in SCAC Semis) POOL C
5. (43) Mary Hardin-Baylor 22-5 22-5 (LOST to Hardin-Simmons in ASC POOL CSemis;a 5-pt QOWI loss)
6. (33) Maryville (Tenn.) 21-6 21-3 (defeated LaGrange in GSAC Final)-POOL B
7. (23) Centre 22-4 16-4 (plays Trinity (TX) in SCAC Final)
8. (54) McMurry 20-7 19-5 (LOST to Mississippi College in ASC Semis)
West Region
1. (1) UW-Stevens Point 25-2 24-1 (Won WIAC AQ)
2. (5) St. Thomas 24-3 24-3 (Won MIAC AQ)
3. (23) St. John's 20-7 20-4 (LOST to St. Thomas in MIAC Final) POOL C
4. (34) UW-Oshkosh 21-6 18-6 (LOST to La Crosse in WIAC Semis)
5. (16) Occidental 19-5 14-3 (Won SCIAC AQ)
6. (28) Whitworth 23-3 20-3 (Won NWC AQ)
7. (29) Loras 21-6 19-4 (Won IIAC AQ)
8. (41) UW-La Crosse 19-8 17-7 (LOST to Stevens Point in WIAC Final)
Looks like the people in charge showed alot of love for the south and the northeast. No love for the WIAC though. I guess I can understand that now when I look back at the numbers the WIAC pool C teams just didn't have what they needed to get in.
Let me help you out Old School - Centre won against Trinity 72-57 in the championship of the SCAC today.
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 25, 2007, 11:12:01 PM
Let me help you out Old School - Centre won against Trinity 72-57 in the championship of the SCAC today.
I got lazy and didn't update it, figured everyone knew that already! Thanks though. :D ;) ::)
There's a lot of unhappiness around Posting Up tonight, and it is understandable. Many of us can't conceive of how this team or that could be left out, or how this conference got slighted relative to that conference. There's a lot of criticism of the pool structure, and QoWI, and the emphasis on regional play, and above all, cries about how the tournament should be the "best" 59 teams but isn't. All of these are valid complaints, at least to some degree.
I just want to point out that the NCAA is not some collection of alien beings that just landed on Earth and imposed this structure on us (even if it feels that way sometimes), "they is us" (to paraphrase Walt Kelly, below). If you don't like the way our tournament is set up, if you think it is unfair, then let your athletic director or, better still, your college president know. Because when you talk to your college president, you're talking to the NCAA. We have imposed this structure on ourselves, and if it is as horribly flawed as some people seem to believe, it can be changed.
I offer my congratulations to those of you whose teams got bids tonight :), and I extend my sympathy to those whose teams' seasons ended tonight. :'(
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2F4%2F49%2FPogo_-_Earth_Day_1971_poster.jpg&hash=53b1118da275f65bedda9344d0bedbf2be03c0a1)
I have a question. Why doesn't the NCAA expand the field of teams to 64 like the D-I and D-II tourney?
Well, I think I want to add to the debate. My biggest concern is why do the Women get 63 bids and the men only 59? Why do five special teams get a bye and the other 54 have to play? Wouldn't it be best if the field were extended to 64 so that no teams got a bye and you could add 5 more pool C bids to allow more teams to get in? I don't like the why did this team get in and this team not get in debate or why does this conference have three teams and this one four and another one only one, because I have no clue what the selection committee is thinking or debating when they make their selection. However, I just think in all fairness to all teams, that no team should have a bye in the NCAA tournament. I think it could hurt the top seeded teams (I fully beleive it hurt Hampden-Sydney, the year following thier National Runner Up, when they were 27-1 entering the tournament with a first round bye only to lose in the second round). I truly think that the tournament may need to be looked at a little differently. This is just food for thought, and if any one can answer me about the difference between men's and women's that would be great. (I truly hope it isn't because there are 73 all Women's Colleges which creates 4 more bids for the tournament).
GO HSC TIGERS and ODAC TEAMS
Quote from: miacwatchmen on February 25, 2007, 11:41:26 PM
I have a question. Why doesn't the NCAA expand the field of teams to 64 like the D-I and D-II tourney?
http://d3hoops.com/faq.php
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
With the exception of the UAA and the SCIAC (did I miss one), the Road to Salem/Springfield began with the conference tourneys. There must have been 200-250 teams that began tourney play.
We have fair access to the conference slot. Please listen to the Coach Brett Adams at VJC talk on Hoopsville tonight about how the NCAA improved access with the current Pool system, which prompted the creation of the NEAC from 12 independents which had trouble getting games, and then you can appreciate the work-in-progress.
You think that it is tough in your conference. We have 15 teams in the ASC. I am curious to see how far we get this year. There is not likely to be a much better conference for women's basketball (maybe the UAA or the WIAC or the state of Maine), but at least we have access. I am sure that Howard Payne and someone will play before 3500 for the right to move on. (Yes, 3850 attended today for the conference finals. Some teams don't play before that many fans at home in a season!)
I remember the years where the smaller conferences basically had no chance to even get a team in the tournament, so Ralph has a good point.
Access is fine, but the limitations on the field are what drives most people nuts. The cutback to the 48 team field practically coinciding with an increase in access a few years ago, meant a lot of really good D3 teams and their athletes were denied access because of a system full of inequities in its selection process. The increase to 59 is at the very least a small start, but the system has a long way to go to consistently get the best teams in the tournament.
I'm really really hoping the introduction of the "new qowi" which is supposed to resemble an rpi rating will help a bunch. I just find it amazing teams like UW Oshkosh, LaCrosse, Elmhurst etc etc get left home for teams from other regions that just arent very good.
This year has just been crazy..........with the Pool C clerical error, mysterious "in-region" mileage determinations........it leaves alot to be desired.
Quote from: miacwatchmen on February 25, 2007, 11:41:26 PM
I have a question. Why doesn't the NCAA expand the field of teams to 64 like the D-I and D-II tourney?
It is, slowly. We get one tourney slot for every 6.5 teams (I think). As d3 grows, the tourney is gradually headed for 64 teams.
David, a good voice of reason, as always. I have no complaint about not being the 'best' 59 teams (the d1 tourney is not the 'best' 65 either). I have no bone to pick with Pool A - they won their conference, they deserve a shot. It's true that many are just a 'speed bump' for much stronger teams in the first round, but so what? No 16-seed has ever won a game in the d1 tourney (though a few have put in a real scare), and only 2 15s have ever won a game, but the occasional David slays Goliath (or even the possibility) is a key part of 'March Madness'. We are a bit hampered having 37 AQs in a 59-team tourney (vs. 20-something in a 65-team tourney in d1), but so be it.
My complaint is with both the criteria for selection of Bs and Cs, and the seemingly incompetent application of those criteria. Regional criteria (whether winning %, QOWI, or whatever) for a national tournament is simply illogical, unless you make the untenable assumption that all regions are exactly equal. Since they obviously are not, a 9.5 QOWI and a .7 RW% in a strong region almost certainly reflects a stronger team than a 10.5 QOWI and .8 RW% in a weak region. But the 10.5, .8 team is a lock; the 9.5, .7 team goes home.
As far as incompetent application of the rules, I won't even belabor the mileage disputes or the sudden discovery that there were only 18, not 19, C bids days before selection. But the
clear intent of the highest level of QOWI was 2/3 or more wins; for the NCAA to decide that .66666666 was not .667 or above is insane. I don't know how many teams that affects, but with final regional records of 10-5, 12-6, 14-7, 16-8, there must be dozens. And every one of their opponents has a lower QOWI than the rules seemingly called for. If, in fact, QOWI is gone, good riddance! Though if it comes back as basically QOWI with opponents' opponents records added, that may just add more ways to screw it up!
I think that parity has set in. And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.
diehardfan, what did you think of Miss College and UMHB/McM/HSU on the video feed?
Would the CCIW have trouble traveling the 10 hours by bus from those locations to Clinton to play a game?
I contend that playing within 300 miles of your fan base thru the first four rounds is worth 6-10 points. That is an unfair advantage for the "Power Conferences" that will never be resolved at this level.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 26, 2007, 12:11:12 AM
I have no complaint about not being the 'best' 59 teams (the d1 tourney is not the 'best' 65 either). I have no bone to pick with Pool A - they won their conference, they deserve a shot.
Well, I must admit being a little miffed that the #3 CCIW team (Wheaton) beat the GNAC's A bid (Rivier) by 16 in December when we were without Kent Raymond (www.wheaton.edu/Athletics/mbasketball/stats/mwhe10.htm) and the #2 CCIW team (Elmhurst) doesn't get a shot, but I'll live.
I care much more about things like the ridiculously large conferences (like the ASC) getting only one bid... There are enough teams in each division for them to each get an A... and i think it should happen. There has to be some way to make it more like the MACC and MACF even if it's just for basketball. I think the way that the C's are handed out is silly too but so does everyone so no need to elaborate.
Incidentally, while I have some serious allegiances as well obviously, I'm totally cheering for Coast Guard to win it all, just because I think it would be funny. :D
I applied my formula and ranked the field of 59. Lake Erie is high, but based on QOWI its not so high. I thought about putting them into brackets, but I am not sure of the mileage. Once I see the brackets I will post my Final 4. (Is d3hoops doing that contest thing again this year.
(* 201-78 W for Lincoln was removed.)
1 Wooster 14.84215352
2 Amherst 14.56512278
3 Hope 14.24222655
4 UW-Stevens Point 14.02627738
5 Lake Erie 13.44622987
6 Virginia Wesleyan 13.1540127
7 Aurora 13.01331938
8 Salem St. 12.6848944
9 Maryville(TN) 12.52194949
10 St. Thomas 12.37295119
11 Mississippi College 11.9047045
12 Brockport 11.82629338
13 Whitworth 11.60697971
14 Manhattanville 11.49294661
15 Rhode Island College 11.47911829
16 Worchester Polytech 11.45503703
17 Alvernia 11.31190353
18 Trinity(Conn) 11.11951886
19 Keene St 11.04822477
20 Centre 10.82117966
21 St. John Fisher 10.74542863
22 Occidental 10.64257177
23 Villa Julie 10.40472644
24 Augustana 10.39154247
25 John Hopkins 10.38748132
26 Stevens 10.36394837
27 Messiah 10.33175899
28 DePauw 10.31682197
29 Loras 9.904831834
30 Lincoln* 9.805109399
31 Elms 9.748877525
32 Washington U. 9.359745842
33 Guilford 9.285715611
34 Mary-Hardin Baylor 9.246396676
35 Chicago 9.149282654
36 St. John's 9.133425495
37 Ramapo 9.074614196
38 Catholic 8.932990267
39 Calvin 8.720380074
40 Kings 8.710195731
41 Averett 8.548856
42 St. Lawrence 8.426287549
43 Rochester 8.381033632
44 Hood 8.367017907
45 Brandeis 8.136797286
46 Capital 7.853704032
47 Westminster(PA) 7.770769539
48 Transylvania 7.526575
49 York (N.Y) 7.510411386
50 Fontbonne 7.32479926
51 John Carroll 7.191168037
52 Plattsburgh St 6.725100698
53 Carroll 6.66075919
54 Rivier 6.243396357
55 Williams 5.781791538
56 Hampden-Sydney 4.729802165
57 Wentworth Tech 4.227690294
58 Widener 3.857946663
59 Coast Guard 3.633023026
Yes, we will do a pick 'em.
Go Coast Guard.........Bears ?
How can Coast Guard not have a nautical nickname?
CG lost 7 of 8 games going into their tournament, then beat 3 teams who they had a 1-5 record against.
Interesting that other than a 17 point loss in their first game to Chicago, their largest margin of defeat was 12 and 10 points.........otherwise everything is under 10. Including 3 2 pointers, 2 1 pointers and an OT game.
Not such a bye afterall.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 12:12:25 AM
I think that parity has set in. And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.
diehardfan, what did you think of Miss College and UMHB/McM/HSU on the video feed?
Would the CCIW have trouble traveling the 10 hours by bus from those locations to Clinton to play a game?
I contend that playing within 300 miles of your fan base thru the first four rounds is worth 6-10 points. That is an unfair advantage for the "Power Conferences" that will never be resolved at this level.
I must admit to doing a couple other things at the same time so I didn't see a full 80 minutes. I did watch quite a bit though and basically liked what I saw though, and have a feeling you will win a few games. While I'm not convinced you're on the level of Elmhurst (the only CCIW team I saw this year besides Wheaton), or St Thomas (the best West Region team I saw this year) I do think you're probably as good as Hope and other similar level Great Lakes teams as they are this year. I hope Miss College gets to host a sectional, and that money is not a factor against clear numbers and results in this instance. If you host a sectional, it gives you a good shot at Salem and it will give me an even better chance to evaluate (always easier to do it in person, despite a good stream).
Of course a 10 hr bus ride completely stinks, and traveling teams never do as well, reffing style, exhaustion, time differences, all come into play. But, I don't think it's fair what you said on the ASC board about Wheaton because we beat all the Texas teams we played that year (Trinity, Southwestern, and UT-Dallas) by more than 10... and they were stronger then than they are now. Perhaps you are thinking of Augustana? I don't remember what they did... though I believe they did still win. In that cause the CCIW teams were also the ones that traveled the long distances, and would be at the disadvantage, as traveling teams so often are. Yet they still won, and that's the mark of a great team as opposed to a very good team, right? :)
Crrrrrrrrazy picks!! All the tournament spoilers had a profound impact as expected...
Good Luck to all teams in the tournament it should be an exciting few weeks!!
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 12:42:44 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 12:12:25 AM
I think that parity has set in. And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.
diehardfan, what did you think of Miss College and UMHB/McM/HSU on the video feed?
Would the CCIW have trouble traveling the 10 hours by bus from those locations to Clinton to play a game?
I contend that playing within 300 miles of your fan base thru the first four rounds is worth 6-10 points. That is an unfair advantage for the "Power Conferences" that will never be resolved at this level.
I must admit to doing a couple other things at the same time so I didn't see a full 80 minutes. I did watch quite a bit though and basically liked what I saw though, and have a feeling you will win a few games. While I'm not convinced you're on the level of Elmhurst (the only CCIW team I saw this year besides Wheaton), or St Thomas (the best West Region team I saw this year) I do think you're probably as good as Hope and other similar level Great Lakes teams as they are this year. I hope Miss College gets to host a sectional, and that money is not a factor against clear numbers and results in this instance. If you host a sectional, it gives you a good shot at Salem and it will give me an even better chance to evaluate (always easier to do it in person, despite a good stream).
Of course a 10 hr bus ride completely stinks, and traveling teams never do as well, reffing style, exhaustion, time differences, all come into play. But, I don't think it's fair what you said on the ASC board about Wheaton because we beat all the Texas teams we played that year (Trinity, Southwestern, and UT-Dallas) by more than 10... and they were stronger then than they are now. Perhaps you are thinking of Augustana? I don't remember what they did... though I believe they did still win. In that cause the CCIW teams were also the ones that traveled the long distances, and would be at the disadvantage, as traveling teams so often are. Yet they still won, and that's the mark of a great team as opposed to a very good team, right? :)
Actually, I saw Wheaton at the University of Dallas, which got a Pool B bid at 13-12 that year.
Sul Ross beat both UDallas and Trinity to move to the Sweet 16 where they blew a 17 point lead over Lawrence and lost in OT. Lawrence lost to UWSP in OT that year.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 12:12:25 AM
I think that parity has set in. And, it is hard for the old timers to accept that there is very little difference in D3.
If by parity, you mean there are more good teams, and coming from more conferences, I won't argue with you.
But "very little difference in D3"??!! While I'm uncertain on the number, there are many conferences who have NEVER won a tournament game. With apologies to my friends on that board, we joke that IWU (back when we would win! :'() always got a first-round bye - it was called the SLIAC champion.
If we leave out the teams in 'lesser' conferences getting AQs, I'd imagine that there are no more than 100 teams annually with any realistic shot at the tournament, and which 100 it is has at most very slow turnover.
Utica' got the short end of a timid field. Although, they did lose 5 of their last 8 games, and 3 of 4. But, they also did have 19 wins, demonstrated how good they were with wins over Fisher, and SUNY, Oswego as well. Their losses were 2 to fisher, 1 hamilton, clarkson, which are not bad obviously, and respectable to say the least. The other losses were ****ty, in that the teams were terrible. With that being said those losses should not have kept them out of the field when Brockport plays their schedule and get in, U of R, Plattsburgh also. This team took and should have beat Fisher in the finals of the E8, it took overtime and yes it was nobody but Utica's fault but they did display that they should be elected part of the 2007 NCAA tournement. Hurting them was Williams winning as well as Coast Gaurd. What does anyone think about them getting in, have those teams not come up with the upsets that they did.
I just really think that after the performence that put on last year they should have been considered as a team that is IN, not OUT. Not that teams are bid on for last years squad doings, but this years, and considering the circumstances for the last two years they share a lot in common to say the least as a whole for the field. Other teams out of the East that got a bid, with all respect to them I believe that they are not as qualified in some of the most important areas that a team gets in on, and that is why I am posting this whining blog. Ha. Yes I do know that they people(s) who pick the field are aware of everything and are as fair as can be, just looking for a little feedback on Utica's denail to the 07' tourney. Thanks!
Quote from: jammer on February 26, 2007, 01:34:31 AM
Utica' got the short end of a timid field.
Nah. This is not an injustice. You said it yourself, they lost five of eight, three of four. The numbers are available on the QOWI board that tell you where Utica ranked in the selection criteria. It's not just a "raw number of wins" ranking.
50 9.632 9 Lewis and Clark 0.737 (14-5) 19-7
51 9.625 8 Guilford 0.833 (20-4) 21-452 9.619 5 Ohio Northern 0.667 (14-7) 19-7
53 9.609 7 Plattsburgh State 0.739 (17-6) 20-8
54 9.583 9 McMurry 0.792 (19-5) 20-7
55 9.520 4 New Jersey City 0.680 (17-8) 18-9
56 9.481 6 Capital 0.704 (19-8) 19-8--POOL A
57 9.478 5 Elmhurst 0.739 (17-6) 21-6
58 9.458 9 Villa Julie 0.750 (18-6) 20-7 POOL A
59 9.458 10 DeSales 0.708 (17-7) 19-8
60 9.450 7 Westminster (Pa.) 0.800 (16-4) 18-8 POOL B
61 9.400 8 Utica 0.720 (18-7) 19-7
62 9.364 8 Wittenberg 0.773 (17-5) 22-5
63 9.360 10 Tufts 0.600 (15-10) 15-10
There are probably at least 10 teams higher than Utica that weren't selected for a Pool C bid, your 9 spots lower than Guilford who I believe has the lowest qowi among C's. I imagine Utica wasn't even on the table.
A qowi of 9.4 won't get it done in any year.
WOW, okay thank you I did not realize that they were that low on the QOWI, so I guess we would have been struggling to get in even if we won the 3 games at the end of the year. Correct? Its to bad we didn't win the E8 just to see how we would match up in comparison to last year. Another question, how come we got looked at and put in last year with the year we had? Didn't seem much more significant that this year. Thank you for any responses.
Utica had every chance to host the tourny and to win the tourny and they pulled the old choke job...you say that they have good wins, not really, the struggled to beat a young fisher team in double ot, and then Proceed to lose to RIT and Ithaca at home...can't do that and expect to get an at large bid in a year where a lot of great teams lost in the tourny's....
Quote from: jammer on February 26, 2007, 01:57:56 AM
WOW, okay thank you I did not realize that they were that low on the QOWI, so I guess we would have been struggling to get in even if we won the 3 games at the end of the year. Correct? Its to bad we didn't win the E8 just to see how we would match up in comparison to last year. Another question, how come we got looked at and put in last year with the year we had? Didn't seem much more significant that this year. Thank you for any responses.
Last year Utica had a better in-region record, and probably a better qowi. If you want to pick losses that hurt Utica this year I think Ithaca, Alfred and RIT losses really hurt your qowi and of course in-region. Win a couple of those and Utica is probably at the very least discussed for a C, most certainly would have been in better shape than they ended up.
EDIT: If I'm doing the math right, each extra win would have improved qowi by .3, so only 2 more W's gets Utica in the 10.0 range and that most certainly have got them in the tournament.
Throw me a bone someone. Please. Where do you see Fontbonne University in this mess. What does the elimination from Pat's Midwest Region do? How will they fill the south and will MS. College receive a bye?
The map suggests they can get to Mississippi College without a flight. (I say suggests because I am hesitant to speak in absolutes regarding the NCAA and maps anymore.)
If they can get to Mississippi College then the NCAA will put them there.
I've read a lot about here about how many hours a team should reasonably have to be subjected to a bus ride in the national tournament.
1. Is there any NCAA "standard" ?
2. How may hours does everyone think is reasonable?
Wow, a lot of sympathy on the part of D3hoops.com for the WIAC huh? The caption under the front page photo regarding St. Thomas is a little misleading isn't it, considering that St. Thomas was playing without a pre season first team All-American in Isaac Rosefelt?
Not really. The point is that UW-La Crosse is not in the tournament, and to identify them in the picture when St. Thomas is the only school that's easily identifiable.
If you spent any time at all on the men's boards you'd know that I was telling anyone who would listen in December that Rosefelt did not play in the game. I took a fair amount of crap for it at the time.
Quote from: AndOne on February 26, 2007, 03:59:46 AM
I've read a lot about here about how many hours a team should reasonably have to be subjected to a bus ride in the national tournament.
1. Is there any NCAA "standard" ?
2. How may hours does everyone think is reasonable?
The standard is 500 miles, not hours. Is that reasonable? Ehh, not in my book. It used to be 400 until a few years ago. I thought that was better. I think the 500-mile trips are pretty rare, though.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2007, 04:44:20 AM
Quote from: AndOne on February 26, 2007, 03:59:46 AM
I've read a lot about here about how many hours a team should reasonably have to be subjected to a bus ride in the national tournament.
1. Is there any NCAA "standard" ?
2. How may hours does everyone think is reasonable?
The standard is 500 miles, not hours. Is that reasonable? Ehh, not in my book. It used to be 400 until a few years ago. I thought that was better. I think the 500-mile trips are pretty rare, though.
Not in my book either.
I believe Mapquest directions assume about a 65 mph average per long (Interstate) trip. I think buses generally go a little slower. So even at 60 mph average a 500 mile trip would take 8.3 hours--and thats just driving time--no time to stop to eat and/or take a potty break. I suppose if you're the NCAA, that sounds like a very reasonable reward for a season thats good enough to qualify for the national tourney, and not too much of an obsticle to overcome. It also helps guarantee that your team will no doubt have a large following of fans attending the game. ::)
Well, it is on their dime -- schools could fly if they are willing to make up the difference. :)
(Borrowed from the Front Page of D3Hoops.com)
"Power outages"
"The two best conferences in Division III men's basketball got exactly two teams in the NCAA Tournament."
Is this the right way to run a national tournament which is alledgedly comprised of the best 59 teams in the land? I think not! :P
Supposedly a new formula will be in use next year. Good--it seems like just about anything would be an improvement! :)
It's never been comprised of the best 59 teams in the land, though, and it's not supposed to be -- just like D-I isn't comprised of the best 65. There are 37 automatic bids, after all. Not every conference champ is in the Top 59, not by a long shot.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2007, 05:29:19 AM
Well, it is on their dime -- schools could fly if they are willing to make up the difference. :)
The :) says it all!
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2007, 05:37:49 AM
It's never been comprised of the best 59 teams in the land, though, and it's not supposed to be -- just like D-I isn't comprised of the best 65. There are 37 automatic bids, after all. Not every conference champ is in the Top 59, not by a long shot.
Not by a long shot for sure!
And maybe some of these automatic bids shouldn't be so "automatic." ? ???
Just to play devil’s advocate here. Everyone has been very critical of the NCAA selection committee and the process for selection but I have seen few better suggestions than the process we have now. The most popular suggestion is to just let a committee select the teams subjectively but how can someone do that without bias when they have not seen teams from each region play. It is an impossible task.
There are strong arguments to be made against each team that did not make it. I do feel bad for Elmhurst who I think is one of the best teams in the country potentially, but they lost 5 of their last 12 including a terrible loss to Millikin which probably pushed them out.
UW-La Crosse lost eight games including three losses to Carleton (10-16), UW-River Falls (10-16) and UW-Eau Claire (10-16). I don’t see an outrage here that they got left off.
UW-Oshkosh had a better season than Lacrosse with all six losses coming against quality teams, but they lost three times to La Crosse. I would have a hard time keeping Lacrosse out and putting in a team that lost to them three times.
I am sure I will get much opposition on this but I just don’t see the outrage keeping these three teams out, they got left out for bad losses. With so many DIII teams trying to get in the tourney, you just can’t suffer bad losses.
For one of these to get in a team like Guilford would probably be left out. Guilford went 21-4 with two of their losses coming to defending national champion Virginia Wesleyan. In my opinion if they were left it would have been an even bigger disappointment, though I doubt we would have heard nearly as much about it.
I'm one CCIW fan that is not outraged about the league only having one rep, in spite of its universal recognition as one of the elite conferences in D3. I'm disappointed, but not outraged, because I know how the system works and I understood all along that this would be one of those years in which the league was in trouble, Pool C-wise. I realized about two weeks ago that the CCIW would have a hard time getting a second team into the tourney, unless Augie lost the automatic bid by falling in the conference tournament.
My disappointment is along the it's-not-the-best-59-teams lines, but hey -- even the D3 men's basketball handbook itself acknowledges that the best teams aren't all gonna get to go dancing. It's right there in black and white on page 12: "The Division III championships philosophy is to field the most competitive teams possible while minimizing missed class time; to emphasize regional competition in regular-season scheduling; and to provide representation in NCAA championship competition by allocating berths to eligible conferences, independent institutions, and a limited number of at-large teams, realizing that this may be done at the expense of leaving out some championship-caliber teams." (italics mine)
Chris is right; the tournament selection process can't be left in the hands of subjective arbiters, because the obscurity and size of D3 is such that no one observer can have the opportunity to see each contending team in action. But there has to be something better than the current process of comparing and selecting teams on a national basis by using regionally-based criteria. The current system pounds square pegs into round holes. There has to be something better out there. I hope that the new RPI-esque rating system that takes opponents' opponents records into consideration will be a step in the right direction.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2007, 07:59:21 AM
...
Chris is right; the tournament selection process can't be left in the hands of subjective arbiters, because the obscurity and size of D3 is such that no one observer can have the opportunity to see each contending team in action. But there has to be something better than the current process of comparing and selecting teams on a national basis by using regionally-based criteria. The current system pounds square pegs into round holes. There has to be something better out there. I hope that the new RPI-esque rating system that takes opponents' opponents records into consideration will be a step in the right direction.
But does using a regionally based RPI-esque system take care of those disparities? The complainers in the Wisconisn to Ohio geographic region (which crosses NCAA Geographic Regions #3 and #4) want to break a perceived "District of Columbia to Maine" oligarchy (which is primarily Geographic Regions #1 and some #2, i.e., NY and PA).
To help with the base of "in-region" groups of teams, I
suggested creating a North Region (http://www.d3sports.com/post/index.php?topic=3328.108) that balances out some of the "power" and breaks an "artificial barrier" (called Lake Michigan :D :D ;D) that isolates the MIAA. The geographic regions allow access to more teams and now we can construct evaluation regions that span 2 geographic regions to give more choices. (Please read Pat Coleman's thoughts on my attempt to break up the concentration of teams in the Northeast and tries to balance the number of teams that end up in an Evaluation Region.)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2007, 07:59:21 AM
Chris is right; the tournament selection process can't be left in the hands of subjective arbiters, because the obscurity and size of D3 is such that no one observer can have the opportunity to see each contending team in action. But there has to be something better than the current process of comparing and selecting teams on a national basis by using regionally-based criteria. The current system pounds square pegs into round holes. There has to be something better out there. I hope that the new RPI-esque rating system that takes opponents' opponents records into consideration will be a step in the right direction.
You worded this opinion much better than I could and I agree 100%. I remember when we were using the opponents' opponents format but honestly don't know how it worked due to the fact I was not very knowledgable about DIII basketball nationally. It is a step in the right direction but it is still the responsibility of each individual school to produce a schedule that benefits them under the selection guidelines of the NCAA.
Everyone knew the criteria this season and had an opportunity to schedule in order to help their QOWI. I think you could have flipped a coin with the last 5-6 teams on the bubble as to who was more deserving. Ultimately if you are in that position you put your fate in the hands of the committee instead of forcing them to take you with better numbers according to the criteria.
I do feel bad for those kids who narrowly missed out on a great experience, but we should be applauding those teams who got in instead of ripping them apart.
Hi all,
With U of Rochester, Fisher, and Brockport consistently in tournament contention, and all making the field this year -- I have two questions:
1) Is there another city in the country this season that has three area colleges in the DIII tournament?
2) What other cities have this many DIII programs? -- Fisher, Brockport, Rochester, RIT, Nazareth
(I realize Brockport is not in Rochester, but they are a "local" sports team and are covered as well as any of the schools actually in the city... so feel free to count similar schools for other cities).
It's still not right to keep good teams on the sidelines in favor of others who reside in easier regions. It's the opposite argument that keeps worthy D-1 mid-major teams on the sidelines.
Bracket up, front page.
Okay, you have four teams and you can match 2 of them in pairings that have not occurred in recent history.
Why do you have UMHB playing Miss College again? In the first round? For the third time this season!
You could have had Oxy playing Miss College and Maryville playing UMHB!
Ah, Ralph - they probably wanted a thriller in the first game. You know, familiarity brees contempt and all that!
how could they have FISHER and ROCHESTER in the same POD. that is crazy
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 09:08:37 AM
Okay, you have four teams and you can match 2 of them in pairings that have not occurred in recent history.
Why do you have UMHB playing Miss College again? In the first round? For the third time this season!
You could have had Oxy playing Miss College and Maryville playing UMHB!
I wonder that myself. It must be actual seeding in this case.
Yes! Welcome to Washington Messiah, Alvernia and Lincoln....
Well, fisher, the way it looks from the Bracket it would have been U of R or Brockport in that position, take your pick.
Quote from: fisheralum03 on February 26, 2007, 09:16:23 AM
how could they have FISHER and ROCHESTER in the same POD. that is crazy
Fisher is in a bracket without Amherst for the first time in years and you're actually complaining?!?!?
... not that I expect them to get by UR anyway
Rochester has to get by Plattsburgh first
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 09:08:37 AM
Okay, you have four teams and you can match 2 of them in pairings that have not occurred in recent history.
Why do you have UMHB playing Miss College again? In the first round? For the third time this season!
You could have had Oxy playing Miss College and Maryville playing UMHB!
Calvin and Hope could meet for a fifth time this season in the second round.
Quote from: fisheralum03 on February 26, 2007, 09:25:06 AM
Rochester has to get by Plattsburgh first
I'm also worried about Brockport getting past Williams. Williams has played very well lately (and obviously upsetting Amherst) --- Those NESCAC Teams are always a challenge...
Quote from: Chris Brooks on February 26, 2007, 08:20:59 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 26, 2007, 07:59:21 AM
Chris is right; the tournament selection process can't be left in the hands of subjective arbiters, because the obscurity and size of D3 is such that no one observer can have the opportunity to see each contending team in action. But there has to be something better than the current process of comparing and selecting teams on a national basis by using regionally-based criteria. The current system pounds square pegs into round holes. There has to be something better out there. I hope that the new RPI-esque rating system that takes opponents' opponents records into consideration will be a step in the right direction.
You worded this opinion much better than I could and I agree 100%. I remember when we were using the opponents' opponents format but honestly don't know how it worked due to the fact I was not very knowledgable about DIII basketball nationally. It is a step in the right direction but it is still the responsibility of each individual school to produce a schedule that benefits them under the selection guidelines of the NCAA.
Everyone knew the criteria this season and had an opportunity to schedule in order to help their QOWI. I think you could have flipped a coin with the last 5-6 teams on the bubble as to who was more deserving. Ultimately if you are in that position you put your fate in the hands of the committee instead of forcing them to take you with better numbers according to the criteria.
I do feel bad for those kids who narrowly missed out on a great experience, but we should be applauding those teams who got in instead of ripping them apart.
I think some, but not all of these issues, could be addressed by counting all D3 games toward QoWI and getting rid of the regional restriction, and also by expanding the field to 64.
Quote from: ziggy on February 26, 2007, 09:30:51 AM
Calvin and Hope could meet for a fifth time this season in the second round.
Virginia Wesleyan and Hampden-Sydney could meet for a fourth time this season in the second round.
I said I will post my final 4 right here.
UW-Stevens Point
Va Wesleyan
Amherst
Wooster
I don't believe they set up Hope and Calvin for a potential second round match up! They couldn't be split up like their female counterparts until at least the second weekend! This will be the fifth match up in one year if they both win, that is too many.
who do you think has the tougher road to the Sectionals, Fisher or Brockport?
Quote from: fisheralum03 on February 26, 2007, 10:48:19 AM
who do you think has the tougher road to the Sectionals, Fisher or Brockport?
I think that maybe the Fisher is tougher. I don't have St. John Fisher making it out of there on my bracket. But thats just my opinion.
Yes, everyone I have my bracket filled out already. I will put it to good use as well in the annual contest.
I knew Ralph would be on fire
It is just another year for Maryville, TN to go to Clinton Miss and i have to agree with Ralph
Mississippi College will be playing Occidental and Mary Hardin-Baylor will be playing Maryville. The NCAA committee changed it this morning.
WOW!
And, DUH! :)
Quote from: Chris Brooks on February 26, 2007, 11:16:10 AM
Mississippi College will be playing Occidental and Mary Hardin-Baylor will be playing Maryville. The NCAA committee changed it this morning.
I thought that looked a little peculiar. That switch doesn't really do anything to my bracket. Just an upset in the first round nothing more.
Watching Coach DeWeese and Coach Lambert should be worth the price of admission!
The bracket is what I was hoping for! :)
Ok - here's my first blush at this - with my power rankings.
Stevens Point Region:
UW - Stevens Point (1) - bye
Loras (25) vs. St. John's (54)
Wash U. (6) vs. Fontbonne (241)
Whitworth (10) vs. DPU (28)
Aurora (27) vs. Calvin (99)
Chicago (5) vs. Hope (23)
Augustana ( 4) vs Carroll (WI) (58)
St. Thomas (18) - bye
Mississippi College Region:
Messiah (37) vs. Catholic (39) - Hold the jokes, please.
Alvernia (70) vs. Lincoln (66)
Johns Hopkins (57) vs. Villa Julie (146)
Manhattanville (79) vs. Guilford (7)
Va. Wesleyan (9) vs. Averett (50)
Hood (51) vs. Hampden - Sydney (104)
Occidental (14) vs. Mississippi College (21)
Maryville (TN) (34) vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor (32)
Amherst Region:
Amherst (3) - bye
King's (68) vs. Widener (203)
Ramapo (59) vs. York (NY) (171)
WPI (20) vs. Stevens Tech (88)
RIC (13) vs. Coast Guard (222)
Trinity (CT) (15) vs. Brandeis (22)
Keene State (30) vs. Rivier (174)
Salem State (36) - bye
Lake Erie Region:
St. John Fisher (45) vs. Wentworth (231)
Rochester (24) vs. Plattsburgh State (107)
St. Lawrence (65) vs. Elms (139)
Brockport State (46) vs. Williams (120)
Wooster (2) vs. Transylvania (56)
Centre (26) vs. Capital (49)
John Carroll (35) vs. Westminster (PA) (121)
Lake Erie (33 ) - bye
Now what does that all mean?
Stevens Point Bracket:
The bottom of that bracket is loaded - it will be a battle royale and the winner may be battle tested enough to topple Stevens Point, or they could just be worn out.
Mississippi College Bracket:
Again, the bottom looks tough, especially the round at Mississippi College. That looks like three outstanding games! Could we see and all ODAC final, since Guilford has a fairly pedestrian top bracket?
Amherst Bracket:
The bottom again is tougher, with a dogfight potentially between five decent teams. The top looks like Amherst vs. WPI without much of a question, but you NEVER know, do you?
Lake Erie Bracket:
The top is pretty weak, with St. John Fisher and Rochester probably taking it. Wooster no doubt is licking its chops, because if they play to form they may not have much of an issue getting to the final four. Yet, a couple of OAC teams and an underrated Centre team could surprise.
Quote from: smedindy on February 26, 2007, 12:16:25 PM
Ok - here's my first blush at this - with my power rankings.
Stevens Point Region:
UW - Stevens Point (1) - bye
Loras (25) vs. St. John's (54)
Wash U. (6) vs. Fontbonne (241)
Whitworth (10) vs. DPU (28)
Aurora (27) vs. Calvin (99)
Chicago (5) vs. Hope (23)
Augustana ( 4) vs Carroll (WI) (58)
St. Thomas (18) - bye
Mississippi College Region:
Messiah (37) vs. Catholic (39) - Hold the jokes, please.
Alvernia (70) vs. Lincoln (66)
Johns Hopkins (57) vs. Villa Julie (146)
Manhattanville (79) vs. Guilford (7)
Va. Wesleyan (9) vs. Averett (50)
Hood (51) vs. Hampden - Sydney (104)
Occidental (14) vs. Mississippi College (21)
Maryville (TN) (34) vs. Mary Hardin-Baylor (32)
Amherst Region:
Amherst (3) - bye
King's (68) vs. Widener (203)
Ramapo (59) vs. York (NY) (171)
WPI (20) vs. Stevens Tech (88)
RIC (13) vs. Coast Guard (222)
Trinity (CT) (15) vs. Brandeis (22)
Keene State (30) vs. Rivier (174)
Salem State (36) - bye
Lake Erie Region:
St. John Fisher (45) vs. Wentworth (231)
Rochester (24) vs. Plattsburgh State (107)
St. Lawrence (65) vs. Elms (139)
Brockport State (46) vs. Williams (120)
Wooster (2) vs. Transylvania (56)
Centre (26) vs. Capital (49)
John Carroll (35) vs. Westminster (PA) (121)
Lake Erie (33 ) - bye
Smedindy, I am new to this Dlll game. How do you calculate your power ratings?
Basically, I use a formula taking the Wolfe and Massey ratings, the Massey SOS and how well a team did during the year and weight it.
Is there any thoughts on who will be the "Cinderalla Story" this year? Or will there even be one? Or is that something people want to keep to themselves?
I think it is unfortunate that Bard has been snubbed once again. But I wish Villa Julie (who narrowly defeated Bard, 95-60, earlier this year), Rivier (who ducked Bard at the opening weekend tournament by defeating their first-round opponent) and Manhattanville (who won the last ever illegitimate pre-Bard Skyline Conference title) the best of luck in the upcoming draw. I look forward to the Raptors' participation in the 07-08 tournament.
Quote from: raptormania on February 26, 2007, 12:35:08 PM
I think it is unfortunate that Bard has been snubbed once again. But I wish Villa Julie (who narrowly defeated Bard, 95-60, earlier this year), Rivier (who ducked Bard at the opening weekend tournament by defeating their first-round opponent) and Manhattanville (who won the last ever illegitimate pre-Bard Skyline Conference title) the best of luck in the upcoming draw. I look forward to the Raptors' participation in the 07-08 tournament.
It was that loss to Cal Tech that killed 'em with the selection committee! ;D
Folks, if Oxy declines the invitation, does MC get the forfeit or would they fill it with another team?
It just goes to show you that flying across the country to play OOC opponents is a fool's errand. Shame on the selection committee for failing to see past win-loss record.
Smed, I am a St. John's fan. I am trying to get a feel for Loras and your power ranking would indicate that they would be a prohibitive favorite, correct?
Not that it matters, though. the winner gets the honor of playing the Pointers! ;D
Quote from: DIIIghetto on February 26, 2007, 12:45:10 PM
Folks, if Oxy declines the invitation, does MC get the forfeit or would they fill it with another team?
I would ship Elmhurst down the river! ;)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 26, 2007, 12:52:48 PM
Quote from: DIIIghetto on February 26, 2007, 12:45:10 PM
Folks, if Oxy declines the invitation, does MC get the forfeit or would they fill it with another team?
I would ship Elmhurst down the river! ;)
The selection criteria already did that! (Or is 'up the river' the appropriate phrase?) :P
Quote from: raptormania on February 26, 2007, 12:35:08 PM
I think it is unfortunate that Bard has been snubbed once again. But I wish Villa Julie (who narrowly defeated Bard, 95-60, earlier this year), Rivier (who ducked Bard at the opening weekend tournament by defeating their first-round opponent) and Manhattanville (who won the last ever illegitimate pre-Bard Skyline Conference title) the best of luck in the upcoming draw. I look forward to the Raptors' participation in the 07-08 tournament.
And this is why we love you. ;)
Speaking of Rivier, can they be my Cinderella!? We (Wheaton) beat them by 16ish earlier this year... it would be fun if they won a bunch of games!
Quote from: DIIIghetto on February 26, 2007, 12:45:10 PM
Folks, if Oxy declines the invitation, does MC get the forfeit or would they fill it with another team?
What crazy person would do that? Just play more regional games and this won't happen again! :(
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 26, 2007, 09:59:59 AM
I said I will post my final 4 right here.
UW-Stevens Point
Va Wesleyan
Amherst
Wooster
Actually that should go on the Final Four Board. ;)
More regional games don't matter. Oxy went in as a #3 seed. Maybe that was too high, but nonetheless that is where they go in. How many other #3 seeds in regions play #1 seeds on the first round?
Quote from: DIIIghetto on February 26, 2007, 01:27:24 PM
Oxy went in as a #3 seed.
How do you know this, I'm pretty sure you don't. Nobody does unless they are a coach on the committee. The reason Oxy has been ranked low all year in the regional poll is due it a lack of regional wins. It couldn't be any more obvious to those of us that closely follow the national scene.
I promise you, the bracket Oxy is in is easier than the West region one they got out of. This is not all bad. ;)
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 02:09:59 PM
Quote from: DIIIghetto on February 26, 2007, 01:27:24 PM
Oxy went in as a #3 seed.
How do you know this, I'm pretty sure you don't. Nobody does unless they are a coach on the committee. The reason Oxy has been ranked low all year in the regional poll is due it a lack of regional wins. It couldn't be any more obvious to those of us that closely follow the national scene.
On the national committee, even. The regional committee's rankings can get changed after the regional committee call ends.
I'd say Loras is a favorite, though not prohibitive, really. Both are good teams, but the IIAC is a better league and Loras, I think is more battle tested through the season. St. Thomas is probably better than anyone in the IIAC, but the IIAC is just a decent league from one end to the other, for the most part.
I think Oxy has a good chance in their bracket to at least move on to the round of 16. That's four pretty darn teams in that one, though!
I guess since we don't really know what the teams numbers are, we can't really say who is the cinderalla team. With talk of the field of 16 I will give my field of 16. (I don't expect it to change when I do the contest either)
UW-Stevens Point
Whitworth
Hope
St. Thomas
Messiah
Manhattanville
VA Wesleyan
Occidental
Amherst
Stevens
Trinity
Keene St
Rochester
Brockport
Woster
Lake Erie
Considering the records I have a few underdog caliber teams listed.
Why would Oxy decline a bid ?
Here's a table of tourney teams by conference.
| Team | Pool | Reg. | Conference |
| Lake Erie | A | GL | AMCC |
| Mississippi College | A | South | ASC |
| Mary Hardin-Baylor | C | South | ASC |
| Catholic | A | MA | CAC |
| Hood | C | MA | CAC |
| Wentworth Tech. | A | NE | CCC |
| Augustana | A | MW | CCIW |
| Johns Hopkins | A | MA | Centennial |
| York (N.Y.) | A | Atl | CUNYAC |
| St. John Fisher | A | East | Empire 8 |
| Rivier | A | NE | GNAC |
| Maryville (Tenn.) | B | South | GSAC |
| Transylvania | A | MW | HCAC |
| Loras | A | West | IIAC |
| Lincoln | B | MA | IND |
| Rhode Island College | A | NE | LEC |
| Keene State | C | NE | LEC |
| St. Lawrence | A | East | LL |
| Widener | A | MA | MAC-C |
| Messiah | C | MA | MAC-C |
| King's | A | MA | MAC-F |
| Salem State | A | NE | MASCAC |
| Calvin | A | GL | MIAA |
| Hope | C | GL | MIAA |
| St. Thomas | A | West | MIAC |
| St. John's | C | West | MIAC |
| Carroll | A | MW | MWC |
| Elms | A | NE | NAC |
| Aurora | B | MW | NathCon |
| Wooster | A | GL | NCAC |
| Villa Julie | A | East | NEAC |
| Willams | A | NE | NESCAC |
| Amherst | C | NE | NESCAC |
| Trinity (Conn.) | C | NE | NESCAC |
| Coast Guard | A | NE | NEWMAC |
| WPI | C | NE | NEWMAC |
| Ramapo | A | Atl | NJAC |
| Whitworth | A | West | NWC |
| Capital | A | GL | OAC |
| John Carroll | C | GL | OAC |
| Hampden-Sydney | A | South | ODAC |
| Guilford | C | South | ODAC |
| Virginia Wesleyan | C | South | ODAC |
| Alvernia | A | MA | PnAC |
| Westminster (Pa.) | B | GL | PrAC |
| Centre | A | South | SCAC |
| DePauw | C | South | SCAC |
| Occidental | A | West | SCIAC |
| Manhattanville | A | Atl | Skyline |
| Stevens | C | Atl | Skyline |
| Fontbonne | A | MW | SLIAC |
| Plattsburgh State | A | East | SUNYAC |
| Brockport State | C | East | SUNYAC |
| Washington U. | A | MW | UAA |
| Brandeis | C | NE | UAA |
| Chicago | C | MW | UAA |
| Rochester | C | East | UAA |
| Averett | A | South | USA-South |
| UW-Stevens Point | A | West | WIAC |
Quote from: fcnews on February 26, 2007, 04:06:51 PM
Why would Oxy decline a bid ?
They wouldn't. Apparently some of my crazy SCIAC poster friends would. :D
OS... seriously, do you have a table making obsession? ;)
D3 MEN'S TOURNAMENT FANTASY LEAGUE!!!
Select a
ONE-TIME five man team to use throughout the tournament. Obviously the longer your player's team progresses, the more points you'll accumulate.
There is ONE CATCH. You cannot use more than ONE PLAYER from any given tournament team.
Here is the point system.
Points + Rebounds + Assists + 3-pt Field Goals Made + Steals + Blocks - Turnovers - Missed Free Throws.
Your 5-Man roster must be submitted before the 1st round games begin on Thursday.
ROSTERS MUST BE SUBMITTED ON THE D3 MEN'S NATIONAL PICK EM BOARD ONLY! (located in the Multi-Regional Topics link)
Do not clutter up this board or any other boards with roster posts. The D3 Men's National Pick Em Board is under minimal use now and rosters and results will be posted there ONLY. Any roster not posted on that board will not be accepted (and anyone posting roster here will be frowned upon! lol :'( )
This could get real interesting, I did this for the WIAC tourney, and there were 8 teams to choose from...now it's 59!
ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS, PLEASE REFER TO THE D3 MEN'S NATIONAL PICK EM BOARD Thanks and good luck!
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 04:54:16 PM
OS... seriously, do you have a table making obsession? ;)
Chicks dig the
long ball...tables. :P
Wooster's crew is going to have a field day with Transy....a little payback for last year's early trip home.
....you can probably guess where my fab 5 are coming from....
Quote from: FechtinKiltie on February 26, 2007, 06:56:55 PM
Wooster's crew is going to have a field day with Transy....a little payback for last year's early trip home.
....you can probably guess where my fab 5 are coming from....
Quote from: Old School on February 26, 2007, 04:59:26 PM
There is ONE CATCH. You cannot use more than ONE PLAYER from any given tournament team.
I know where ONE of your fab 5 is coming from... :'(
Touche....I better choose carefully. ;D
Anyone know the deal with Lake Erie hosting the remaining regional games? Wondering how they choose another venue (size, location, high seed, $), 'cause 750 seats is pretty tight...
Quote from: FechtinKiltie on February 26, 2007, 07:03:45 PM
Touche....I better choose carefully. ;D
And choose it carefully in the right board... ;) :P
Quote from: Old School on February 26, 2007, 04:59:26 PM
ROSTERS MUST BE SUBMITTED ON THE D3 MEN'S NATIONAL PICK EM BOARD ONLY! (located in the Multi-Regional Topics link)
Do not clutter up this board or any other boards with roster posts. The D3 Men's National Pick Em Board is under minimal use now and rosters and results will be posted there ONLY. Any roster not posted on that board will not be accepted (and anyone posting roster here will be frowned upon! lol :'( )
ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS, PLEASE REFER TO THE D3 MEN'S NATIONAL PICK EM BOARD
Welcome to the boards, FetchinKiltie. You'll be happy to know (as am I), that Lake Erie's 750 seat gymnasium will be too small to host a sectional. The NCAA requires men's hosts to have at least a 1000 seat gym to host games on the second weekend. By the way, the first rounds of the D-III tourney are called regionals; the sweet sixteen/elite eight matchups happen at four sectional locations. So it's regionals, sections, then the final four.
The first thing that Lake Erie must do to host a sectional is win their second-round game against John Carroll or Westminster (PA). Should they accomplish that, they wouldn't be allowed to host a sectional at the Athletic and Wellness Center, assuming that the published capacity of 750 is correct, but they would be permitted to host a sectional at another, more suitable, facility if they so chose, although that may be cost-prohibitive for a small school like Lake Erie College. That doesn't mean that they'd be selected, though, as seeding is a relatively low priority in sectional hosting decisions:
Quote from: Men's Handbook, page 7Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.
In addition, the men’s basketball committee requires each host to videotape all contests at its site, with the intent to make available to each team a copy of the contest in which it participated. The committee also prefers sites that will not host conflicting events during the championship practice and competition. Sites will also be evaluated as to the availability of appropriate practice times for all competing teams. To host first-round, second-round or sectional contests, a regulation court as defined in 2007 NCAA Men’s and Women’s Basketball Rules and Interpretations must be used. To host sectional competition, arena seating for at least 1,000 spectators is required.
Furthermore, potential host teams need to have submitted facility evaluation forms by a deadline that passed 10 days ago, so LEC probably already knows whether they're eligible to host or not.
Don't hosts need to host on their campus?
I don't see anything in the Handbook that either requires an on-campus arena or forbids an off-campus venue. I think the counter-example is Hope College, whose on-campus arena (prior to the new DeVos Center) didn't have a regulation-length floor; they were permitted to host NCAA events in the Holland Civic Center. If that's not correct, I'm sure one or more of the 1,735 Hope posters will correct me... :P ;) ;D
Actually, I think the actual Holland Civic Center was too short! :D
Yeah that was vice versa.
Make that 1,737 Hope posters... :D
Anyway, even if my example is wrong, I think the concept it fails to illuminate is correct; if someone knows better, please chime in.
Quote from: Old School on February 26, 2007, 07:56:03 PM
Don't hosts need to host on their campus?
Before NJCU moved to the JMAC they used the Yanatelli Center at St. Peters for NCAA tournament games. The old Fries gym only seated about 200-300 people and the court was too short.
Quote from: Knightstalker on February 26, 2007, 08:43:10 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 26, 2007, 07:56:03 PM
Don't hosts need to host on their campus?
Before NJCU moved to the JMAC they used the Yanatelli Center at St. Peters for NCAA tournament games. The old Fries gym only seated about 200-300 people and the court was too short.
Much better example... Thank you! :D
David,
The Holland Civic Center (Off campus home to the Hope College Men's basketball team) was deemed too short (thank you Albion Coach Turner!) and the men played on campus in the Dow center in 1995.
Interestingly enough, in 1990, the Hope women had the opportunity to host the final 4 in Holland and instead of playing the games on their home court... the Dow Center (where they played their regional and quarterfinal games), they played the games where??? The Holland Civic Center...with its too short court!
Quote from: diehardfan on February 26, 2007, 04:54:16 PM
Quote from: fcnews on February 26, 2007, 04:06:51 PM
Why would Oxy decline a bid ?
They wouldn't. Apparently some of my crazy SCIAC poster friends would. :D
I think that is ONE poster. :o
Does any road team travel a smaller distance than Fontbonne University?Mapquest shows the distance from campus to campus as being 30 yards, the width of Wydown Blvd.
WOW whether you use QOWI or RPI the Trinity/Brandeis matchup just seems upsurd. First off how are neither of these teams hosting the first two rounds, and how are they playing each other in the first round. Imagine if UCLA and Wisconsin played each other in the first round of March Madness. This is very unfortunate because one elite 8 (at least) contender is going to be knocked out on friday.
I keep hearing certain seeds that each team has in the bracket. Where is the bracket that shows the seeding?
The NCAA doesn't seed teams. D3hoops does it for fun.
where is that
Quote from: bamm on February 26, 2007, 08:50:32 AM2) What other cities have this many DIII programs? -- Fisher, Brockport, Rochester, RIT, Nazareth
NYC, Chicago, the Twin Cities, Boston, Philly, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo. That's just off the top of my head. But the Kodak City does have a pretty large number of D3s for a city its size.
Quote from: Old School on February 26, 2007, 11:07:51 PM
The NCAA doesn't seed teams. D3hoops does it for fun.
That's not true, I think it's more like this: The NCAA does seed them, but they just don't tell anybody. Then d3hoops.com works to figure out what they did.
There is a nice SI.com article today on the NESCAC championship game (benefit of having a Williams' father working at SI). But the article also gives a shout out and link to d3hoops.com
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tim_layden/02/26/williams.amherst/index.html
Quote from: diehardfan on February 27, 2007, 09:21:54 AM
Quote from: Old School on February 26, 2007, 11:07:51 PM
The NCAA doesn't seed teams. D3hoops does it for fun.
That's not true, I think it's more like this: The NCAA does seed them, but they just don't tell anybody. Then d3hoops.com works to figure out what they did.
Well, the NCAA does seed them, but then doesn't necessarily bracket them by seed because of logistics and travel and all that jazz.
Brandeis is pretty far down the list just by virtue of their record, etc. Even though they are a good team from a good conference, they just haven't gotten the greatest seed.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on February 27, 2007, 07:42:24 AM
Quote from: bamm on February 26, 2007, 08:50:32 AM2) What other cities have this many DIII programs? -- Fisher, Brockport, Rochester, RIT, Nazareth
NYC, Chicago, the Twin Cities, Boston, Philly, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo. That's just off the top of my head. But the Kodak City does have a pretty large number of D3s for a city its size.
If you count within 15-20 minutes of downtown, Boston has 15 d3 schools. I assume Chicago is somewhere near that number as well.
If you're looking for small cities, Worcester, MA has five schools and Springfield, MA has four.
Fisher, Brockport, Rochester, RIT, Nazareth, Geneseo, Hobart.
Mr. Coleman and others, I do not want to make more work for everyone but since I am no hall of famer and have way to much school work this week, and also just not informed enough, I was wondering if anyone could give brief details on each of the teams in the field, and maybe an outlook, similar to that given in the USA Today for the div 1 tourny. Maybe if we could get a compilation from a number of people, who have seen different teams play in region or in conference etc..
I'll do our annual tournament preview but with 112 teams in the tournaments what you are looking for is not exactly going to happen.
I've worked at USA Today and seen the amount of work that goes into those capsules. There are about 6-8 people on the college desk alone and this work is distributed all over the newsroom -- the NFL desk gets involved, as well as anyone else in the newsroom and not working on their sport in-season.
I would love to do that someday but we don't even have representatives from all 112 teams on the board, nor do I have time to send out the hundred e-mails and compile the results from SIDs. We can barely get it done for 32 football playoff teams.
Sorry. :-\
I mean, I live 4 this too, but I still have to go to my day job tonight. :)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:13:56 PM
I mean, I live 4 this too, but I still have to go to my day job tonight. :)
Well that is the problem! We need to find a rich D3 alum that will bank roll d3hoops and your salary so you can quit your day job during basketball season. I'd volunteer but I am only an alum. Not rich.
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
As much we seem to disagree with you on alot of issues. I think d3hoops.com has done alot for d3basketball. Give me a few years I will have some money to throw around. I'd like to donate to d3hoops. I have been fighting a few people that say they support their alma mater's but won't travel or won't go to conference tournament games. Even if it is at their alma mater's gym. I find it disappointing. :-\
Keep up the good work. Maybe one day I will make it to the d3sports Hall of Fame.
OK, you got me. The NCAA doesn't seed teams FOR THE VIEWING PUBLIC! lol ::)
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 27, 2007, 03:41:59 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
As much we seem to disagree with you on alot of issues. I think d3hoops.com has done alot for d3basketball. Give me a few years I will have some money to throw around. I'd like to donate to d3hoops. I have been fighting a few people that say they support their alma mater's but won't travel or won't go to conference tournament games. Even if it is at their alma mater's gym. I find it disappointing. :-\
Keep up the good work. Maybe one day I will make it to the d3sports Hall of Fame.
I guess you really don't want my money then. I don't appreciate being nice to be shot down. That was the only post I made within the last hour. Pat, you told me to watch how I word things. I don't know how I can be anymore sincere than that.
I'm not sure what you are reading into his post, but I didn't sense any sarcasm in Pat's response. He said he appreciated your sentiment. I can't see why you think you were "shot down." It appeared sincere to me.
I concur... I know he's sarcastic fairly often, but I think Pat was being sincere here!
It was DCHopeNut, where Pat said
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
I am wondering why my karma was hit after that. I mean yeah I deserve it if I said something stupid. But that was the last post I had. I am not even saying Pat did anything. I never even said that. I mean if I offer to donate some money why is that frowned upon.
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 27, 2007, 05:15:06 PM
It was DCHopeNut, where Pat said
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
I am wondering why my karma was hit after that. I mean yeah I deserve it if I said something stupid. But that was the last post I had. I am not even saying Pat did anything. I never even said that. I mean if I offer to donate some money why is that frowned upon.
I have no idea how karma works, but I do know that there are some people who have it out for other people and your karma being dinged probably had nothing to do with your most recent post. Heck, what DIII fan wouldn't want Pat to be able to devote his full time attention to the sites??? My karma went down even when I hadn't posted for 2 months! I wouldn't worry about it. But if it makes you feel better, K+ from me. :)
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 27, 2007, 05:15:06 PM
It was DCHopeNut, where Pat said
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
I am wondering why my karma was hit after that. I mean yeah I deserve it if I said something stupid. But that was the last post I had. I am not even saying Pat did anything. I never even said that. I mean if I offer to donate some money why is that frowned upon.
Pride sport, quite possibly someone read one of your other 611 posts and knocked you on what you wrote on another board. :-\
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 27, 2007, 05:30:44 PM
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 27, 2007, 05:15:06 PM
It was DCHopeNut, where Pat said
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
I am wondering why my karma was hit after that. I mean yeah I deserve it if I said something stupid. But that was the last post I had. I am not even saying Pat did anything. I never even said that. I mean if I offer to donate some money why is that frowned upon.
Pride sport, quite possibly someone read one of your other 611 posts and knocked you on what you wrote on another board. :-\
The worst I need right now is a stalker. a) I am too young b) I don't know if i could handle it ;D
I will say this I expect to finish in the top 20 on this annual pick'em contest. Although I am not as aware as I may be on the d1 side I am using a strategy that has helped me the last 3 years win in the d1 office pools. (I once had a strategy where I broke down each seed and overall records in each bracket/region. It just became an overwhelming spreadsheet. Just didn't have the time to keep it updated.) FYI if you do a d1 bracket #8 seeds have won about 61% of the 8-9 game. Even though they are "virtually equal."
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 27, 2007, 05:15:06 PM
I mean if I offer to donate some money why is that frowned upon.
Huh? Who frowned upon what? I feel like I'm in a bizzaro universe. I still don't see anyone who knocked you for anythig, much less donating money.
Just Bill-
I don't really want to waste 2007 tournament space, but I posted that once I make lots of money, I will donate some to d3hoops.com. (My karma was -9) I came back to see if there was a response (karma -10) I hadn't said anything. As Mr. Ralph Turner explained it was probably another post. Or Diehardfan suggested unoffically that I had a "karma stalker." (Ralph I happen to agree with diehardfan with that matter.)
Everyone's karma seems to go up or down in mysterious ways. There seem to be some people who get a cheap thrill out of smiting posters for no discernable reason. I think it's best not to sweat it, although sometimes that can't be helped.
If you are truly worried about your karma, you should A.) find a new hobby B.) work on your self esteem C.) Log on as a different user, and give yourself karma points every 24 hours or whatever it allows you. :o :P ;D :D ;)
I get it now. What confused me is when you included Pat's appreciative comment in your complaint. You made no reference to karma so I could only assume that you had taken exception to Pat's comment.
Move along everyone...nothing to see here.
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2007, 07:43:52 PM
If you are truly worried about your karma, you should A.) find a new hobby B.) work on your self esteem C.) Log on as a different user, and give yourself karma points every 24 hours or whatever it allows you. :o :P ;D :D ;)
D.) Or start posting on the MIAC football board. They are into Karma incest over there (except Touchdown Tommy). :o
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 27, 2007, 05:15:06 PM
It was DCHopeNut, where Pat said
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 27, 2007, 02:19:40 PM
Appreciate the sentiment. :)
I am wondering why my karma was hit after that. I mean yeah I deserve it if I said something stupid. But that was the last post I had. I am not even saying Pat did anything. I never even said that. I mean if I offer to donate some money why is that frowned upon.
Well, I was at work.
Maybe somebody hates the site. Maybe it's another post elsewhere on the board that someone is reading for the first time. It's not always the last post you made.
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2007, 07:43:52 PM
If you are truly worried about your karma, you should A.) find a new hobby B.) work on your self esteem C.) Log on as a different user, and give yourself karma points every 24 hours or whatever it allows you. :o :P ;D :D ;)
I don't really care about it obviously. I am at -9. I am going to say what I am going to say no matter what. I am very opinionated.
Old School-
I thought about being a stand-up comic. I haven't put all my material together yet. If I have to stop posting on here....well put it this way this hobby is a little easier.
Ok First Round Upsets? Who is it gonna be?
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on February 27, 2007, 09:30:34 PM
Quote from: Old School on February 27, 2007, 07:43:52 PM
If you are truly worried about your karma, you should A.) find a new hobby B.) work on your self esteem C.) Log on as a different user, and give yourself karma points every 24 hours or whatever it allows you. :o :P ;D :D ;)
I don't really care about it obviously. I am at -9. I am going to say what I am going to say no matter what. I am very opinionated.
Old School-
I thought about being a stand-up comic. I haven't put all my material together yet. If I have to stop posting on here....well put it this way this hobby is a little easier.
Ok First Round Upsets? Who is it gonna be?
You don't have to stop posting because of negative karma. If you don't get too personal in your attacks you will be fine. Positive posts are appreciated by all.
I think PrideSportBBallGuy has done alot for d3basketball. Give me a few years I will have some karma to throw around. I'd like to donate to PrideSportBBallGuy.
What is KARMA? How is it measured?
Thanks for the info
Karma explained; from the site FAQ. (http://www.d3hoops.com/faq.php?question=41)
Can you find out which posts got applauded or smited?
How many stars do you need before you can start giving people Karma
I don't believe so; nor can you find out which posters are doing the applauding or smiting. At least, I've never found any way to do this.
Oh well, just curious. It would be nice to see which post gets the applause or smite so you know what gave you the Karma.
Quote from: tigerphil on February 27, 2007, 11:40:01 PM
Can you find out which posts got applauded or smited?
Alas, no (which makes it rather less useful as a means of 'civilizing' boors).
Quote from: ILive4This on February 27, 2007, 11:44:34 PM
How many stars do you need before you can start giving people Karma
Don't know how it translates to stars, but it comes with 200 posts.
If there is one thing I do well, it is to keep a board active.
;D
Although, I still would like to know which teams have the possibility of being "upset" in first round. I already have my bracket turned in on pick'em and have several upsets.
I believe Villa Julie will beat John Hopkins. That is one of my "upsets."
As some of you know I run my own power rankings, but some will say it is about as accurate as the QOWI but there are a set of numbers that I calcuate that I use to determine "team efficiency" (How well they do on offense and defense) that has been very affective in determining winners of games all year I have used it in spreads. If you would like I can post the 59 tournament teams in terms of efficiency. I will then explain what efficiency is with that post.
Not really sure if this is an upset, but I have Stevens winning in the first round. It could be an upset since Stevens wasn't projected to get a bid by d3hoops. But again i am not sure about seeding and supposed favorites. I just picked and had fun with it, picking Hope to come out of thier Section
I also have Stevens winning the first round.
According to the NCAA handbook, teams on the bottom of the pairing are the underdog.
I think Loras over St. John's has a good chance of happening as does Guilford over Manhattanville and Hampden-Syndney over Hood.
There's certainly a lot of other upset possibilities, but those are the ones than intrigue me the most.
By the way. The trend I've noticed is that when people bring up karma, they usually lose karma. See we can do a little test. I was at 21 when I wrote this post.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2007, 09:01:43 AM
According to the NCAA handbook, teams on the bottom of the pairing are the underdog.
I think Loras over St. John's has a good chance of happening as does Guilford over Manhattanville and Hampden-Syndney over Hood.
There's certainly a lot of other upset possibilities, but those are the ones than intrigue me the most.
If that is the case then I have 10 scheduled upsets in the first round.
Pride, trust (and test) your system!
Good luck!
Don't forget to get your 5-man fantasy team posted on the D3 Men's National Pick Em Board !!!
D3 MEN'S TOURNAMENT FANTASY LEAGUE!!!Select a
ONE-TIME five man team to use throughout the tournament. Obviously the longer your player's team progresses, the more points you'll accumulate.
There is ONE CATCH. You cannot use more than ONE PLAYER from any given tournament team.
Here is the point system.
Points + Rebounds + Assists + 3-pt Field Goals Made + Steals + Blocks - Turnovers - Missed Free Throws.
Your 5-Man roster must be submitted before the 1st round games begin on Thursday.
ROSTERS MUST BE SUBMITTED ON THE D3 MEN'S NATIONAL PICK EM BOARD ONLY! (located in the Multi-Regional Topics link)
Do not clutter up this board or any other boards with roster posts. The D3 Men's National Pick Em Board is under minimal use now and rosters and results will be posted there ONLY. Any roster not posted on that board will not be accepted (and anyone posting roster here will be frowned upon! lol :'( )
ANY QUESTIONS REGARDING THIS, PLEASE REFER TO THE D3 MEN'S NATIONAL PICK EM BOARD Thanks and good luck!
Hey Pat when can we expect the Men's preview...please let me know if I can help in any way
Quote from: ILive4This on February 28, 2007, 11:58:16 PM
Hey Pat when can we expect the Men's preview...please let me know if I can help in any way
Same time frame as the women's went up -- first thing in the morning on the day of the first round. We're in good shape -- I first did this in 1998 for USA Today.com so it's old hat now.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2007, 12:39:33 AM
Quote from: ILive4This on February 28, 2007, 11:58:16 PM
Hey Pat when can we expect the Men's preview...please let me know if I can help in any way
Same time frame as the women's went up -- first thing in the morning on the day of the first round. We're in good shape -- I first did this in 1998 for USA Today.com so it's old hat now.
Nice Preview Pat.
I like that John Carroll pick in the Final Four, only makes Greensboro's win over them look really good :)
Is anyone else having the same trouble as me with the Video Stream of Widener vs. Kings?
Its breaking up
This is just my thought the reason that Augustana lost tonight was the fact that they didn't shoot as well from the FT line that they are used too. For me that was the only upset among the 59 teams tonight.
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on March 02, 2007, 12:17:27 AM
This is just my thought the reason that Augustana lost tonight was the fact that they didn't shoot as well from the FT line that they are used too. For me that was the only upset among the 59 teams tonight.
I'm pretty sure only 10 teams played tonight! lol. :D ;)
Quote from: Old School on March 02, 2007, 12:43:52 AM
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on March 02, 2007, 12:17:27 AM
This is just my thought the reason that Augustana lost tonight was the fact that they didn't shoot as well from the FT line that they are used too. For me that was the only upset among the 59 teams tonight.
I'm pretty sure only 10 teams played tonight! lol. :D ;)
Ok of the ten teams tonight according to me Augustana was the only upset.
I would agree with you...though Westminister almost beating John Carroll would've been one too, especially since I have Mimes on my fantasy team! lol
I didn't get around to posting this earlier, so I hope that nobody minds that it's a bit late:
Congratulations to the Class of 2007, D3's tournament debutantes: Guilford, Hood, Loras, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Rivier, Stevens, and Westminster (PA). Seven debutantes is a pretty typical class for any given year of the D3 tourney, but any new faces whatsoever are always a welcome sight.
Here's the legacy of the other 52 schools, prior to Thursday night:
| school | apps | 1st app | last app | E8 | F4 | champ | W-L |
| Brandeis | 3 | 1975 | 1978 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 5-3 |
| Rhode Island C. | 3 | 1975 | 1979 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2-5 |
| St. Lawrence | 9 | 1975 | 1998 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 7-11 |
| Brockport State | 7 | 1975 | 2004 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 10-7 |
| Widener | 14 | 1975 | 2006 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 18-16 |
| Transylvania | 5 | 1975 | 2006 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 7-5 |
| Augustana | 9 | 1975 | 2006 | 5 | 4 | 0 | 22-10 |
| Plattsburgh State | 3 | 1976 | 2006 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 3-4 |
| Manhattanville | 2 | 1978 | 1979 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-4 |
| Virginia Wesleyan | 6 | 1978 | 2006 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 7-7 |
| Wooster | 15 | 1978 | 2006 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 13-15 |
| DePauw | 11 | 1978 | 2006 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 12-13 |
| Coast Guard | 1 | 1979 | 1979 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-1 |
| Centre | 9 | 1979 | 1992 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 10-14 |
| Salem State | 19 | 1980 | 2005 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 21-21 |
| Occidental | 3 | 1980 | 2006 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3-4 |
| Calvin | 16 | 1980 | 2006 | 6 | 4 | 2 | 29-17 |
| Rochester | 10 | 1981 | 2005 | 5 | 4 | 1 | 23-10 |
| WPI | 4 | 1982 | 2006 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4-5 |
| Hope | 17 | 1982 | 2006 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 19-19 |
| Capital | 5 | 1982 | 1996 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5-5 |
| John Carroll | 9 | 1983 | 2005 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 15-11 |
| St. John's | 7 | 1985 | 2001 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 4-8 |
| Washington MO | 11 | 1987 | 2003 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 11-11 |
| Hampden-Sydney | 12 | 1989 | 2004 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 18-13 |
| Johns Hopkins | 7 | 1990 | 1999 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5-7 |
| King's | 4 | 1990 | 2005 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 3-4 |
| Averett | 1 | 1990 | 1990 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-2 |
| St. Thomas | 7 | 1990 | 2006 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 9-8 |
| Maryville TN | 13 | 1991 | 2006 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 12-13 |
| Ramapo | 3 | 1991 | 2005 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 6-4 |
| St. John Fisher | 12 | 1992 | 2006 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 6-12 |
| Catholic | 10 | 1993 | 2006 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 13-9 |
| Williams | 9 | 1994 | 2004 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 25-8 |
| Amherst | 9 | 1994 | 2006 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 15-11 |
| Trinity CT | 5 | 1995 | 2004 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 8-6 |
| York NY | 4 | 1995 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-4 |
| Fontbonne | 1 | 1996 | 1996 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 |
| Alvernia | 5 | 1997 | 2006 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 6-6 |
| Chicago | 4 | 1997 | 2001 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 6-4 |
| Wentworth | 1 | 1997 | 1997 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 |
| UW-Stevens Point | 5 | 1997 | 2005 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 16-3 |
| Mississippi C. | 8 | 1998 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 6-8 |
| Aurora | 4 | 1998 | 2005 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-4 |
| Whitworth | 1 | 2003 | 2003 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 |
| Keene State | 1 | 2004 | 2004 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 2-1 |
| Elms | 2 | 2005 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-2 |
| Carroll | 1 | 2006 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 |
| Lincoln | 1 | 2006 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2-1 |
| Messiah | 1 | 2006 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-1 |
| Villa Julie | 1 | 2006 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-1 |
| Lake Erie | 1 | 2006 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 |
nice! thanks! :)
A couple of interesting facts about this year's field:
* Only one of the top five schools in the appearances category is in this year's field, Salem State (which is making its 20th appearance). Missing are perennials Wittenberg (24), Scranton (20), Franklin & Marshall (19), and Illinois Wesleyan (18).
* Only one of the top ten schools in tournament wins is in this year's field, Calvin (which is tied for seventh with 29 wins). Missing are Wittenberg (47), Illinois Wesleyan (39), Potsdam State (36), Scranton (33), Franklin & Marshall (32), UW-Platteville (30), Rowan (29), North Park (26), and Clark (26).
Mention this if someone ever tells you that D3 isn't as competitive as D1. Try imagining a D1 tournament field that was missing UCLA, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana, etc., all in the same year.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 02, 2007, 02:30:34 AM
Try imagining a D1 tournament field that was missing UCLA, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, North Carolina, Indiana, etc., all in the same year.
If only...
Well, five games down and I've missed three already. Not a good start.
Something on the Dose got me to thinking. I was wondering what percentage of d3 schools from each state made it into the tournament. So I did the math and here are the results. Note: I used only schools eligible for post-season play (if they were eligible, but declared elsewhere, they are still included in the overall totals because I didn't have a list of those).
Kentucky - 66.7% (2 of 3)
Washington DC - 50% (1 of 2)
Missouri - 40% (2 of 5)
Maryland - 33.3% (3 of 9)
New Hampshire - 33.3% (2 of 6)
Mississippi - 33.3% (1 of 3)
Connecticut - 28.6% (2 of 7)
Michigan - 28.6% (2 of 7)
Virginia - 26.7% (4 of 15)
Rhode Island - 25% (1 of 4)
Tennessee - 25% (1 of 4)
Washington - 25% (1 of 4)
Massachusetts - 19.4% (7 of 36)
Ohio - 18.2% (4 of 22)
Iowa - 18.2% (2 of 11)
Minnesota - 15.3% (2 of 13)
New Jersey - 14.3% (2 of 14)
New York - 13.0% (7 of 54)
Pennsylvania - 12.8% (6 of 47)
Indiana - 12.5% (1 of 8 )
California - 10% (1 of 10)
Illinois - 9.1% (2 of 22)
Wisconsin - 8.2% (2 of 23)
Texas - 6.3% (1 of 16)
Alabama (0 of 1)
Colorado (0 of 1)
Deleware (0 of 1)
Louisiana (0 of 1)
Nebraska (0 of 1)
West Virginia (0 of 1)
Arkansas (0 of 2)
Georgia (0 of 4)
North Carolina (0 of 4)
Oregon (0 of 5)
Vermont (0 of 5)
Maine (0 of 10)
Hoops, nice work! Just curious if you are counting appearance in men's or women's tournament. It's a little detail but in Minnesota/the MIAC there will never be a team in the men's tournament from the all-female St. Catherine or St. Benedict. changes us from 2/13 to 2/11.
BTW, just a reminder that D3hoops.com is broadcasting the Catholic regional and Johns Hopkins regional for NCAASports.com.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
It's just men's teams.
And it proves without a shadow of a doubt that Kentucky is the center of d3 men's basketball!
So uh, is anyone else's bracket royally messed up? ??? :-X
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 09:30:29 PM
So uh, is anyone else's bracket royally messed up? ??? :-X
Well, I had Augie going all the way, Trinity in the Elite 8, and Chicago in the Sweet 16 - yeah, I'm dead! :-[ :(
Quote from: diehardfan on March 02, 2007, 09:30:29 PM
So uh, is anyone else's bracket royally messed up? ??? :-X
I did pick the Coast Guard loss, but even that was too close for comfort :D ;D :)
Back from Aurora. Great 2nd game between Calvin and Aurora as Calvin did everything to throw that game away. A snoozer in the first as a "not very good team at all" Chicago gets smoked by Hope. It's Hope v Calvin V tomorrow night.
Good to finally meet Sager and also Petemcb. Bob Q was done there as well. I wasn't introduced to any Hope fans (or Calvin fans for that matter) though. Flying Dutch Fan? Sac? I have no idea what any of you guys look like, so you've gotta find the Asian in the Rangers jacket! Oh well...
More later.
WHAT'S YOUR "VOTE" FOR BIGGEST FIRST ROUND UPSET?
I'd say Carroll at Augie.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2007, 02:47:40 PM
Maine (0 of 10)
How bizarre that Maine can't get a single men's team into the tournament, but manages to qualify five women's teams.
Plattsburgh vs. UofR in a rochester area school I think is huge...
and I say NY is the big cheese in College basketball with 54 teams, jeez we could just have a good old huge NY tourny to see who the best in the state is
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2007, 11:17:53 AM
Pride, trust (and test) your system!
Good luck!
How is everyone doing in the pick'em contest?
Ralph so I have tested my system on this. Its work pretty good. Except the computer says I got the Widener game and Maryville(TN) game wrong.
Pat-
Do you get points for the teams that had first round byes. You should right. If that is the case then I should have 22pts not 17pts. If you don't get points for the teams with first round byes then I should have 19pts(Widener and Maryville(TN))
Not that good. Unfortunately didn't think Rochester would lose. And I had Augustana making it ot the sweet 16. I've missed 10 :(
And guaranteed to miss another!
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on March 03, 2007, 10:25:39 AM
Pat-
Do you get points for the teams that had first round byes. You should right. If that is the case then I should have 22pts not 17pts. If you don't get points for the teams with first round byes then I should have 19pts(Widener and Maryville(TN))
No, you don't get points for games you are gifted automatically. :)
For those interested...
The St. John Fisher vs. Plattsburgh game can be heard LIVE tonight at 7pm...
Go to http://athletics.sjfc.edu/
Click on LISTEN LIVE
Then click on CLICK HERE TO CONTINUE
That should work...
If not...
Go to www.teamline.cc
Type in St. John Fisher
navigate to Men's Basketball
Hope you can tune in!
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2007, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on March 03, 2007, 10:25:39 AM
Pat-
Do you get points for the teams that had first round byes. You should right. If that is the case then I should have 22pts not 17pts. If you don't get points for the teams with first round byes then I should have 19pts(Widener and Maryville(TN))
No, you don't get points for games you are gifted automatically. :)
Oh c'mon its like the free space on the Bingo card, you have to give points for it :)
Amherst-Widener will be webcast on WAMH tonight. http://wamh.amherst.edu/
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on March 03, 2007, 12:36:13 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 03, 2007, 12:25:20 PM
Quote from: PrideSportBBallGuy on March 03, 2007, 10:25:39 AM
Pat-
Do you get points for the teams that had first round byes. You should right. If that is the case then I should have 22pts not 17pts. If you don't get points for the teams with first round byes then I should have 19pts(Widener and Maryville(TN))
No, you don't get points for games you are gifted automatically. :)
Oh c'mon its like the free space on the Bingo card, you have to give points for it :)
Since EVERY entrant would get (or not get) the same five points, it is absolutely irrelevant whether they are scored or not.
Well, actually it could matter - I picked BYE to down UWSP in the upset of the tourney! ;D
You also picked Bye to down Lake Erie in double OT... ;)
Actually, I said this to one of the Colemans (can't remember if it was Ryan or Pat) when I was filling out my bracket... "Hey! It won't let me chose Bye! What's up with that??!?!" :D ;D 8) ;) :-*
Bye always loses though. Do you ever see them advance? I wouldn't pick em if I could! lol :P
I thought "BYE" was Brigham Young-Elko, known as the "OSU-Marion of the West." The Waves may not pose much of a threat to UW-Stevens Point or St. Thomas, but I had them beating Lake Erie, and I haven't seen a score yet that disproves it. I think maybe they went 0-5 in the first round because the NCAA refused to pay for them to fly from Elko to any of their scheduled locations.
Anyway, they should have gotten a home game; BY-E has a bigger gym than LEC.
Y'all crack me up. Well we should complain to the NCAA selection committee every year bye gets in and they always lose in the first round. It must be because they have a great QOWI, If I were the CCIW, MIAA, NCAC I would be complaining because bye got 5 teams this year. Anyone know what conference bye is from? :D
Why would the MIAA complain? Was Tri-State on the verge? lol. How about the WIAC? >:( :P
My initial thought was they were independent, but then they would come out of the Pool B, right? ;D
Quote from: Old School on March 03, 2007, 03:17:39 PM
Why would the MIAA complain? Was Tri-State on the verge? lol. How about the WIAC? >:( :P
Sorry yes, WIAC. I had the MIAA on my mind from sorry Hope women losing in the first round. :-\
I'm very surprised that I get to be the first to point this out, at least here:
The BYE teams go 2-3 in their first competitive action. (3-3 if you count the Howard Payne women.)
Maybe the NCAA needs to re-think whatever process it is that assigned the byes?
Quote from: David Collinge on March 03, 2007, 10:10:03 PM
I'm very surprised that I get to be the first to point this out, at least here:
The BYE teams go 2-3 in their first competitive action. (3-3 if you count the Howard Payne women.)
Maybe the NCAA needs to re-think whatever process it is that assigned the byes?
David, the HPU bye was a geographic bye. You either bring McMurry at Brownwood back for a fourth time, or you do that bracket exactly the way that they did.
I gave props on the "official thank you" women's board for that bracket.
HPU
bye
Chapman
LaVerne
McM
UPS
GAC
GFU
The MIAC had not defeated the NWC since 2001.
Yes, as has been pointed out many times, the women's committee seems to be much more competent than the men's.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 03, 2007, 11:17:06 PM
Yes, as has been pointed out many times, the women's committee seems to be much more competent than the men's.
I don't want to disagree, but I am not sure if competenance is the issue, but more or less the fact women's games are almost fairly certain. I am applying that like the d-1 level one can be fairly certain who will win games all year :-\. Although after looking what the mens committee side did this tournament, I would completely agree with you.
The NCAA re-shuffles the brackets. The Anchormen will find out their next opponent and site tomorrow.
Press release submitted by Rhode Island College on Mar 03 2007 at 09:39 PM
Uh??
:o
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 12:52:52 AM
The NCAA re-shuffles the brackets. The Anchormen will find out their next opponent and site tomorrow.
Press release submitted by Rhode Island College on Mar 03 2007 at 09:39 PM
Uh??
Sure 'nuff! (http://www.d3hoops.com/releases.php?release=13399&scoreboard)
Ummm, that's where I got it from!
Hence the "submitted by...."
Maybe the SID just doesn't understand the process? Or maybe he does and didn't communicate it effectively?
The NCAA still has the original (well, almost original) bracket (http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/brackets/viewable/2007/DIII) up on their website, and it shows RIC playing Keene St.
Please tell me I'm just having another nightmare.
Why wouldn't that be the case? I checked the bracket on this site and it has it that way...why would that be a nightmare?
When did they ever re-shuffle the brackets?
Pat, what's your take??
David was just saying that it would be a nightmare if they switched things.... given the number of things they've switched this season... if I'm not mistaken. I really don't think they're changing the brackets.
When was the last time RIC was in the men's basketball Sweet 16?
I think they have no idea.
Updated to the Sweet 16
Here's a table of tourney teams by conference.
| Team | Pool | Reg. | Conference |
Lake Erie (0-1) | A | GL | AMCC |
| Mississippi College (2-0) | A | South | ASC |
Mary Hardin-Baylor (0-1) | C | South | ASC |
Catholic (1-1) | A | MA | CAC |
Hood (0-1) | C | MA | CAC |
Wentworth Tech. (0-1) | A | NE | CCC |
Augustana (0-1) | A | MW | CCIW |
Johns Hopkins (1-1) | A | MA | Centennial |
York (N.Y.) (0-1) | A | Atl | CUNYAC |
| St. John Fisher (2-0) | A | East | Empire 8 |
Rivier (0-1) | A | NE | GNAC |
Maryville (Tenn.) (1-1) | B | South | GSAC |
Transylvania (0-1) | A | MW | HCAC |
Loras (0-1) | A | West | IIAC |
| Lincoln (2-0) | B | MA | IND |
| Rhode Island College (2-0) | A | NE | LEC |
| Keene State (2-0) | C | NE | LEC |
St. Lawrence (1-1) | A | East | LL |
Widener (1-1) | A | MA | MAC-C |
Messiah (0-1) | C | MA | MAC-C |
King's (0-1) | A | MA | MAC-F |
Salem State (0-1) | A | NE | MASCAC |
Calvin (1-1) | A | GL | MIAA |
| Hope (2-0) | C | GL | MIAA |
St. Thomas (0-1) | A | West | MIAC |
St. John's (1-1) | C | West | MIAC |
| Carroll (2-0) | A | MW | MWC |
Elms (0-1) | A | NE | NAC |
Aurora (0-1) | B | MW | NathCon |
| Wooster (2-0) | A | GL | NCAC |
Villa Julie (0-1) | A | East | NEAC |
Willams (0-1) | A | NE | NESCAC |
| Amherst (1-0) | C | NE | NESCAC |
Trinity (Conn.) (0-1) | C | NE | NESCAC |
Coast Guard (0-1) | A | NE | NEWMAC |
WPI (0-1) | C | NE | NEWMAC |
Ramapo (1-1) | A | Atl | NJAC |
Whitworth (1-1) | A | West | NWC |
Capital (0-1) | A | GL | OAC |
| John Carroll (2-0) | C | GL | OAC |
Hampden-Sydney (1-1) | A | South | ODAC |
| Guilford (2-0) | C | South | ODAC |
| Virginia Wesleyan (2-0) | C | South | ODAC |
Alvernia (0-1) | A | MA | PnAC |
Westminster (Pa.) (0-1) | B | GL | PrAC |
Centre (1-1) | A | South | SCAC |
DePauw (0-1) | C | South | SCAC |
Occidental (0-1) | A | West | SCIAC |
Manhattanville (0-1) | A | Atl | Skyline |
| Stevens (2-0) | C | Atl | Skyline |
Fontbonne (0-1) | A | MW | SLIAC |
Plattsburgh State (1-1) | A | East | SUNYAC |
| Brockport State (2-0) | C | East | SUNYAC |
| Washington U. (2-0) | A | MW | UAA |
Brandeis (1-1) | C | NE | UAA |
Chicago (0-1) | C | MW | UAA |
Rochester (0-1) | C | East | UAA |
Averett (0-1) | A | South | USA-South |
| UW-Stevens Point (1-0) | A | West | WIAC |
The LEC (4-0) looking good, MIAA's only loss (3-1) was because Hope played Calvin, NESCAC is 1-2 with two first round exits, ODAC looking real good (5-1) with Virg. Wes. beating Hampden-Sydney, UAA not looking great, with two first round exits against lower seeds.
If Fisher hosts for once, there in the final 4!
Yeah, because hosting overcomes all. History has shown that to be immutable.
Is there a specific time today that the announcement of the Sectional hosts is to be made?
Quote from: cmhscots on March 04, 2007, 12:06:34 PM
Is there a specific time today that the announcement of the Sectional hosts is to be made?
When
I get around to it. lol. ::) I would assume mid-afternoon. Check the front page occasionally. ;D
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 12:17:39 PM
Quote from: cmhscots on March 04, 2007, 12:06:34 PM
Is there a specific time today that the announcement of the Sectional hosts is to be made?
When I get around to it. lol. ::)
LOL! OS, pick Cal Lu for the west, they have a mad sweet gym from what I hear, and they have multiple brand new locker rooms for each of the teams. I'm sure the players would love to have the experience of being in Cali, it's sunny and warm, and it's only a two hour drive from my house. 8)
They are released at 2pm EST... check out the front page for more info around then. :)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 04, 2007, 11:02:40 AM
Yeah, because hosting overcomes all. History has shown that to be immutable.
LOL...I know that's right...
I guess Fisher is in the Final Four now... :-\
The sectional hosts are Fisher, Stevens Point, Virginia Wesleyan, and for the third consecutive year, Amherst.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 04, 2007, 01:15:43 PM
I guess Fisher is in the Final Four now... :-\
The sectional hosts are Fisher, Stevens Point, Virginia Wesleyan, and for the third consecutive year, Amherst.
In my opinion, 3 of the 4 are right! 75% is good for the NCAA.
I guess it hasn't been announced publicly, and the NCAA has been known to change their minds even after announcing stuff ::), but the men's secional sites are written into the bracket at NCAASports.com:
http://www.ncaasports.com/basketball/mens/brackets/viewable/2007/DIII
1200 seats at Fisher
1100 seats at Va. Wes.
Good grief.
Va Wes was NOT the right thing to do. As much as I like their team, think they're well coached quality basketball squad, and think that would be fun to see in Salem again, I'm not entirely convinced they earned the hosting nod with their early season slip ups and their failure to win the auto bid. That one was all about travel costs. :-\
Incdentally... two C bids getting hosting nods! Wow!
It's always about the travel costs in D-3. Always. No matter how the NCAA likes to 'spin' it - it is what it is. All about the Benjamins, baybee!
Last year's west sectional was at Lawrence U which seats only about 1100. As I recall they had to empty the gym after the first game was completed to allow fans for the second game to have seats.
Ok so maybe 50% right? :D
Virginia Wesleyan is just fine for hosting. They did it last year and did very well. Lincoln will be very familiar with the gym... and where else would you have sent this bracket. CUA didn't win, so DC was out of the equation... and as I had said on Hoopsville several times last week... this was setting up for VA Wes to host!
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 03:48:52 AM
If Fisher hosts for once, there in the final 4!
Just as an FYI hosting a sectional doesn't really equate to an automatic final four:
2006 3 of 4 sectional winners in finals
2005 1 of 4
2004 1 of 4
2003 2 of 4
2002 2 of 4
2001 0 of 4
37.5% of sectional hosting teams make it, but sectional hosting teams have won 4 of the 6 titles ('02 Otterbein, '03 Williams, '05 Stevens Point, '06 VWU)
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 04, 2007, 01:54:55 PM
Virginia Wesleyan is just fine for hosting. They did it last year and did very well. Lincoln will be very familiar with the gym... and where else would you have sent this bracket. CUA didn't win, so DC was out of the equation... and as I had said on Hoopsville several times last week... this was setting up for VA Wes to host!
Dave,
I am sure they have a fine facility but I don't think that was the point she was making. Mississippi College has been #1 in the South Region every week the last two years but has to hop on a plane again. I understand the process, but that does not make it fair. After this year, I doubt MC or any team from this part of the country will ever have an opportunity to host a sectional.
Quote from: frodotwo on March 04, 2007, 01:58:00 PM
Quote from: FisherDynasty on March 04, 2007, 03:48:52 AM
If Fisher hosts for once, there in the final 4!
Just as an FYI hosting a sectional doesn't really equate to an automatic final four:
2006 3 of 4 sectional winners in finals
2005 1 of 4
2004 1 of 4
2003 2 of 4
2002 2 of 4
2001 0 of 4
37.5% of sectional hosting teams make it, but sectional hosting teams have won 4 of the 6 titles ('02 Otterbein, '03 Williams, '05 Stevens Point, '06 VWU)
Fisher,
Hosting sectionals does not ensure you reach the Final Four, but flying to one puts a team at a huge disadvantage. I posted something about this earlier this year. Only one team has flown to a sectional the last five years and reached the Final Four and that was Stevens Point.
So does Fisher get the hosting nod because of a higher QOWI (based on the last numbers that Pat posted here)?
Quote from: mrmike88 on March 04, 2007, 02:35:20 PM
So does Fisher get the hosting nod because of a higher QOWI (based on the last numbers that Pat posted here)?
Seeding is only the #3 priority in site selection, according to the handbook:
Quote from: NCAA Handbook, page 7Site Selection
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility and transportation costs);
3. Seeding; and
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.
In addition, the men's basketball committee requires each host to videotape all contests at its site, with the intent to make available to each team a copy of the contest in which it participated. The committee also prefers sites that will not host conflicting events during the championship practice and competition. Sites will also be evaluated as to the availability of appropriate practice times for all competing teams. To host first-round, second-round or sectional contests, a regulation court as defined in 2007 NCAA Men's and Women's Basketball Rules and Interpretations must be used. To host sectional competition, arena seating for at least 1,000 spectators is required.
Here is what I posted in the NCAC room on this subject last night:
Quote from: David Collinge on March 03, 2007, 10:54:15 PMEveryone meets the minimum:
Fisher 1200 (thanks, blindwatchmaker)
Brockport 2000
JCU 2448
Wooster 3400
Factor one, quality of facility perhaps favors Wooster on size alone, but quality of "other necessary accomodations" might score higher in the cities (Rochester, Cleveland) than in little ol' Wooster.
Factor two, geographical location, I think clearly favors Fisher and Brockport. Transportation costs are lower there than here in Ohio, but we have better weather! ;) As regards rotation of sites, Wooster hosted sectionals in 2003 and 2004, Brockport had one in 2002, and nobody else has hosted since 2001 or earlier (I only went back that far for purposes of this post), so if this is a factor at all it would work against the Scots.
Factor three, seeding, is either Fisher or Wooster; hard to guess. But this is just factor three; the decision might not get this far.
Factor four, attendance history and revenue potential, has got to favor Wooster with its big gym and big crowds. There's no question that there'd be more tickets sold here (by 2000+) than anywhere else. But again the decision may be made before even thinking about this.
It will be very interesting to see what shakes out, but I'm still planning on visiting the Kodak City next weekend.
The only thing that's clear to me on the selection of Fisher as host is that they never reached Factor Four. I'm not even sure of the transportation costs, as I have been told that Brockport is just barely far enough away from Fisher as to perhaps qualify for the travel stipend.
Fisher and B'port are about 20 minutes away from each other. I've been to both gyms, B'port is much larger. I don't even know if Fisher can actually hold 1,200....that might mean people sitting on laps.
Here's a dumb question...Swampgoon and I were wondering who actually plays at the Salem Civic Center, the host for the Final Four. We see a lot of ODAC stuff there. Roanoke?
The LU sectional was a train wreck. Fans from the first game had to be emptied out and had to go to the END OF THE LINE, just to get back in. It was pretty cold outside too and we were out there probably for 1/2 hour plus.
At last year's Final Four, was there a pretty big Virg. Wes. following at Salem?
Old School - no "team" plays at the Salem Civic Center. It is used, however for the ODAC Men's and Women's Basketball championships and I think the Volleyball tourney as well.
They have also hosted numerous other NCAA Championships from volleyball, to basketball, to baseball, to softball, to football (all the facilities are in the same "complex").
Also... the Final Four in Salem is hosted by the ODAC... not an individual school.
The ODAC stuff there because ODAC hosts the Final Four. Roanoke has their own gym named the Bast Center (http://www.roanoke.edu/athletics/facilities/bast1.cfm?sport_code=mbball&acad_year=2006-2007).
The Salem Civic Center (http://www.salemciviccenter.com/), like all civic centers, is used for a variety of purposes, to benefit the town it's located in. Other examples include the across town Roanoke Civic center, which is bigger than Salem's, and the famous Holland Civic Center, former home of Hope College.
edit: Dave just beat me to the answer cause I was adding links. :P ;)
Thanks guys...
Nice picture of the INSIDE of the Roanoke Bast Center. I found it funny that they have a picture of Quandt on the front of this site, but it's a nice picture of the outside, not the inside of Quandt. How does that help? lol! ;D
According to this site: Gym capacities
#1 Stevens Point: Quandt-2800
#10 Hope: DeVos Center-3400
NR-Carroll: Van Male Arena-1100
#8 Washington U.: Field House-3000 (nice original name! lol )
#4 Virginia Wesleyan: Jane P. Batten Center-1100
#3 Mississippi College: A.E. Wood Coliseum-3500
#19 Guilford: Ragen-Brown Field House-2500
NR-Lincoln: Manuel Rivero Hall Gymnasium-2500
#6 Amherst: LeFrak Gymnasium-1800
Stevens: Canavan Arena-1000
#21 Rhode Island College-Intercollegiate Athletic Center-2000
Keene State: Spaulding Gym-2100
NR-St. John Fisher: Not listed
NR-Brockport State: Tuttle North Gymnasium-2000
#2 Wooster: Timken Gymnasium-3400
#25 John Carroll: Tony DeCarlo Varsity Center-2448
Various reports put Fisher's Varsity Gym at 900 to 1200 capacity. It must be at least 1000, which is the minimum for a sectional host site, according to the handbook. (By the way, I'm pretty sure the handbook said 1500 for the minimum in the Nov. version, and was changed to 1000 when the revision to the B/C pools was published a couple of weeks ago. One has to wonder about that, since we have two hosts that fall between these marks. And yes, I know VWC hosted last year, but there's a new handbook for each year.)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg375.imageshack.us%2Fimg375%2F8730%2F2031tr9.jpg&hash=73739d885c4d812b269701f9c71507f77b1e9640)
Here's a picture I took on Saturday night (INSIDE Quandt)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg375.imageshack.us%2Fimg375%2F8730%2F2031tr9.th.jpg&hash=08d7686635e7f059ae9aa3767bd00e6a9eb8459c) (http://img375.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2031tr9.jpg)
Click on picture for larger image. This is from Saturday night.
Love it! Very cool, thanks. :)
Oops... didn't mean to post the same pick twice, I'm still new at this whole digital camera thing... Here goes on a couple of other shots:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg363.imageshack.us%2Fimg363%2F2589%2F2032xt5.th.jpg&hash=f326a5f1eaed0b238b53b23d97cbd5e0635b7f9f) (http://img363.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2032xt5.jpg)
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg148.imageshack.us%2Fimg148%2F9505%2F2033ci6.th.jpg&hash=190becaf94d23001b64a4bb29fe5528de60233bc) (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2033ci6.jpg)
Quote from: David Collinge on March 04, 2007, 04:06:05 PM
Various reports put Fisher's Varsity Gym at 900 to 1200 capacity. It must be at least 1000, which is the minimum for a sectional host site, according to the handbook. (By the way, I'm pretty sure the handbook said 1500 for the minimum in the Nov. version, and was changed to 1000 when the revision to the B/C pools was published a couple of weeks ago. One has to wonder about that, since we have two hosts that fall between these marks. And yes, I know VWC hosted last year, but there's a new handbook for each year.)
David -- whatever Cleveland and Rochester have over Wooster, the home of the Scots can't be any less capable of hosting 4 basketball teams than Stevens Point and Amherst, who continue to host.
And I don't think geography had too much to do with the decision, as no matter who you choose you are sending a couple of teams for a long bus ride down I-90.
That leaves two things -- seeding and potential for revenue/ticket sales. You're right when you said it must not have gotten to the #4 bullet (revenue/ticket sales), and the NCAA made the decision based on #3 (seeding).
And believe me, it's going to be
very tight in Varsity Gym if they dare to sell 1200 tickets.
Nice pictures Point.........looks like a great place.
Could use some orange though......we'll see what we can do :P
Maybe St. Johns Fisher won't use their full allotment of tickets, and others can have a crack at them!
???
honestly did Fisher deserve to host this year, no they did not...but Amherst's gym is no bigger...and it will be a fun enviornment to be in...Fisher's gym is a fun place to watch a game...and if the crowd is going strong it can get very loud
Quote from: sac on March 04, 2007, 10:00:17 PM
Nice pictures Point.........looks like a great place.
Could use some orange though......we'll see what we can do :P
Was I not cool enough to talk to on Friday night down in Aurora? lol :'( :P ;D :D ;)
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 03:40:01 PM
Thanks guys...
Nice picture of the INSIDE of the Roanoke Bast Center. I found it funny that they have a picture of Quandt on the front of this site, but it's a nice picture of the outside, not the inside of Quandt. How does that help? lol! ;D
Not sure if I "encouraged" the change, but that's a nice picture of the INSIDE of Quandt on the front page I see now! lol. ;D
Where were you, nobody told me you were there. ??? :-[
You know us Hall of Famers we've got so many social obligations to attend to it can be very busy.
Quote from: Old School on March 05, 2007, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 03:40:01 PM
Thanks guys...
Nice picture of the INSIDE of the Roanoke Bast Center. I found it funny that they have a picture of Quandt on the front of this site, but it's a nice picture of the outside, not the inside of Quandt. How does that help? lol! ;D
Not sure if I "encouraged" the change, but that's a nice picture of the INSIDE of Quandt on the front page I see now! lol. ;D
For perspective... if you look at the picture on the front, I was basically taking these shots from directly BEHIND the basket on the far end, right below the scoreboard in those underneath-the-basket bleachers.
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 05, 2007, 12:12:35 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 05, 2007, 12:01:38 AM
Quote from: Old School on March 04, 2007, 03:40:01 PM
Thanks guys...
Nice picture of the INSIDE of the Roanoke Bast Center. I found it funny that they have a picture of Quandt on the front of this site, but it's a nice picture of the outside, not the inside of Quandt. How does that help? lol! ;D
Not sure if I "encouraged" the change, but that's a nice picture of the INSIDE of Quandt on the front page I see now! lol. ;D
For perspective... if you look at the picture on the front, I was basically taking these shots from directly BEHIND the basket on the far end, right below the scoreboard in those underneath-the-basket bleachers.
Nope. Jim Strick sent a photo. There's not much on the UWSP site to choose from and as I set up this story to run while I was on the road this afternoon, UWSP seemed the safest venue to use.
I'll be the judge of whether LeFrak or "Varsity Gym" is bigger this weekend, I guess. LeFrak has a lot of room for temporary seating.
Pictures from inside Quandt are a bit hard to find on Point's MBB page... the ones that CAN be found are from 2000 or before (based on the uniforms).
Here are two links to what has been put up:
http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/program/program.htm
http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/program/Facilities.htm
The locker room pic is only about 3 years old from when it was renovated... but under the Philosophy page, the pictures that are up are of Joe Zuiker (2000), Brent Larson (2000), and Kalonji Kadima (2001). At least Point still wears these uni's!
I wish that more programs actually put pictures of their facilities up on their websites. It's neat to see pictures like these IMO.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 12:18:33 AM
I'll be the judge of whether LeFrak or "Varsity Gym" is bigger this weekend, I guess. LeFrak has a lot of room for temporary seating.
Well, cool, I hope (and I mean
hope) to see you in Rocha-cha-cha! :) If you have an extra press pass laying around...I used to be an amateur photographer...and I can spell...I can talk at halftime about Top 25 minutiae... :P :-* ;D
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2007, 12:02:56 AM
Where were you, nobody told me you were there. ??? :-[
You know us Hall of Famers we've got so many social obligations to attend to it can be very busy.
The Asian in the NY Rangers jacket and purple Pointer hat! lol ;D
I was actually right by your section (behind Chicago's pepband). I stood there for awhile and also looked like a little boy who lost his parents down in front of your section for awhile at half time. No big deal. Like I posted in another room, I have no idea what any of you look like (aside from April, and now PeteMcB and Sager)...maybe in Point.
And yeah, I realize how "popular" you HOFers are! lol :P
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:51:46 AM
If you have an extra press pass laying around...I used to be an amateur photographer...and I can spell...I can talk at halftime about Top 25 minutiae... :P :-* ;D
LOL... nice. Press passes are almost sacred. I wish I had one too! Don't you count as the press cause you sorta write for d3hoops.com? ???
Quote from: Old School on March 05, 2007, 01:00:23 AM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2007, 12:02:56 AM
Where were you, nobody told me you were there. ??? :-[
I was actually right by your section (behind Chicago's pepband). I stood there for awhile and also looked like a little boy who lost his parents down in front of your section for awhile at half time. No big deal. Like I posted in another room, I have no idea what any of you look like (aside from April, and now PeteMcB and Sager)...maybe in Point.
I think I told OS that he needed to meet you Sac, but I forgot to do it the other way around. :-[ And OS, does this mean I was the first poster that you met? ;D You forgot Titan Q... and a whhhooollllleeee bunch of WIACers, incidentally. :P
Quote from: diehardfan on March 05, 2007, 01:27:40 AM
I think I told OS that he needed to meet you Sac, but I forgot to do it the other way around. :-[ And OS, does this mean I was the first poster that you met? ;D You forgot Titan Q... and a whhhooollllleeee bunch of WIACers, incidentally. :P
You were my first! lol (I'll leave that alone).
Well, I was referring to the ones at the game...and I know you weren't there (but you were supposed to be!) and I forgot to mention Titan Q because I've met him before. And yeah, the WIAC posters, but Sac probably doesn't care about that! lol.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:51:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 12:18:33 AM
I'll be the judge of whether LeFrak or "Varsity Gym" is bigger this weekend, I guess. LeFrak has a lot of room for temporary seating.
Well, cool, I hope (and I mean hope) to see you in Rocha-cha-cha! :) If you have an extra press pass laying around...I used to be an amateur photographer...and I can spell...I can talk at halftime about Top 25 minutiae... :P :-* ;D
Let us know if the famed Rochester garbage plate tops trail mix, bologna, and Faygo red pop. ;)
Quote from: Old School on March 05, 2007, 01:00:23 AM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2007, 12:02:56 AM
Where were you, nobody told me you were there. ??? :-[
You know us Hall of Famers we've got so many social obligations to attend to it can be very busy.
The Asian in the NY Rangers jacket and purple Pointer hat! lol ;D
I was actually right by your section (behind Chicago's pepband). I stood there for awhile and also looked like a little boy who lost his parents down in front of your section for awhile at half time. No big deal. Like I posted in another room, I have no idea what any of you look like (aside from April, and now PeteMcB and Sager)
Sac was the one wearing orange. How could you have missed him? :D
While not quite the Hof'r as you guys, i've been around these pages a while - and am counting on coming up to the Point to root for Hope and Wash U this Friday (to be finalized today barring Friday mandatory meetings). While I've enjoyed times with TQ, Flying Dutch Fan and wife , Diehardfan and dave Collinge, there are many more to meet - hope to see some of you this weekend
I'm not sure if this came up or not, but Plattsburgh State won a game in this year's tournament. It is the second time they've won a tournament game, the first was back in the second tournament in 1976. That's gotta be the longest time between tourney wins, right?
Hoops - that's a bad memory - I was coaching the RPI team they beat in 1976..... :'(
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 05:41:31 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:51:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 12:18:33 AM
I'll be the judge of whether LeFrak or "Varsity Gym" is bigger this weekend, I guess. LeFrak has a lot of room for temporary seating.
Well, cool, I hope (and I mean hope) to see you in Rocha-cha-cha! :) If you have an extra press pass laying around...I used to be an amateur photographer...and I can spell...I can talk at halftime about Top 25 minutiae... :P :-* ;D
Let us know if the famed Rochester garbage plate tops trail mix, bologna, and Faygo red pop. ;)
LeFrak has more room that Fisher's gym, especially when they bring in the bleachers along the baseline. Getting a seat this weekend will not be that easy.
As for the Garbage Plates....best late night food I've ever had. But I wouldn't suggest having more than 1 in a weekend.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 05:41:31 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:51:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 12:18:33 AM
I'll be the judge of whether LeFrak or "Varsity Gym" is bigger this weekend, I guess. LeFrak has a lot of room for temporary seating.
Well, cool, I hope (and I mean hope) to see you in Rocha-cha-cha! :) If you have an extra press pass laying around...I used to be an amateur photographer...and I can spell...I can talk at halftime about Top 25 minutiae... :P :-* ;D
Let us know if the famed Rochester garbage plate tops trail mix, bologna, and Faygo red pop. ;)
Not "trail mix [and] bologna"; you're thinking of Troyer's Genuine Trail Bologna:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coonscandy.com%2FP3230004.jpg&hash=209eae16e67990310da259a9733013514f813531)
It goes well with (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.faygopops.com%2Fcatalog%2F20redpop_thumb.jpg&hash=a6eab423ffa930efc0e2c0b25eb10dc4c8d3335c) but better with (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.epinions.com%2Fimages%2Fext%2Fwell%2F482%2FwellMedicineOTCAllPepto_Bismol_Original_Formula_Liquid.jpg&hash=6587d33e23fc41e6bb2b8f090fc19bab2f3b7326)
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:59:49 PM
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coonscandy.com%2FP3230004.jpg&hash=209eae16e67990310da259a9733013514f813531)
This is the most deeply and profoundly disturbing thing I've ever seen on Posting Up. Yuck! :P :-X :'( :D
Why the heck is it only available in Ohio?? This reminds me of the old Coors beer mystique, when you couldn't buy it east of the Mississippi!
Answering a few questions.
Clearly the NCAA didn't follow their rules this time. Wooster is a far more suitable site than SJF for the Sectionals.
Having been to both, LeFrak is much bigger (and nicer) than Varsity Gym at SJF. Most HS have better Gym's than Fisher's. LeFrak also has the worst parking mess I've seen in a long time.
April - I married a Rochester girl, she raves about another Rochester dining spot, just up East Ave in Brighton. Truly excellent burgers.
http://www.donsoriginal.com/index.php
Don't count Brockport out. They can play with anyone. Two of their losses (Geneseo, Oswego) came in games where they were whistled for 40 and 37 fouls respectively, and their opponents shot 60 FT's in each game. In general if you are whistled for 35 plus fouls in a game, the refs have it in for you.
Should be a fun weekend, as long as the snow holds off
Quote from: smedindy on March 05, 2007, 01:04:47 PM
Why the heck is it only available in Ohio?? This reminds me of the old Coors beer mystique, when you couldn't buy it east of the Mississippi!
Troyer's Genuine Trail Bologna violates the health code in 37 states, and at the insistence of the Centers for Disease Control, the FDA has made interstate transportation of it illegal without a permit.
Ah, but it's unique flavor is savored amongst those in that section of Ohio. Should I dare ask what makes 'trail bologna' different from other bologna or summer sausage? Should I enjoy some with haggis and lutefisk?
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 01:27:11 PM
Quote from: smedindy on March 05, 2007, 01:04:47 PM
Why the heck is it only available in Ohio?? This reminds me of the old Coors beer mystique, when you couldn't buy it east of the Mississippi!
Troyer's Genuine Trail Bologna violates the health code in 37 states, and at the insistence of the Centers for Disease Control, the FDA has made interstate transportation of it illegal without a permit.
Sounds good to me!
The better "mom-and-pop" restaurants in Dallas have as many Mercedes and Lexuses outside as they have Health Code violations. :)
The Bear, Bport will be tough to beat for anyone where they dont get alot of fouls called against them. However, if anyone is going to get fouls like that it is bport. They play very uptempo and add alot of pressure. They do maul you and reach a lot so i can see the fouls coming. Where it gets tough to beat them is when the refs give up on calling the fouls. It's not a surprise to see that many fouls called on bport that hack the S*&$ out of players.
Hey guys, I just thought I'd pop in to let you know about a little project we did. A group of around 40 posters banded together and created a Unofficial Guide to the 2006-2007 NCAA Tourney, that contains a team-by-team breakdown of the teams in the tournament. This is especially cool given the fact that the official NCAA guide gives you very little insight into the teams, and nearly all of the previews in the Unofficial Guide were made by fans of the team.
The website is: http://wheatonhoops.googlepages.com/ncaatourney and on that website you can find browsable information, as well as a 19 page printable PDF document. This was updated as of this morning to include recently submitted teams (including Widener and Virginia Wesleyan) and corrections as suggested by David Collinge, and more info on Point as requested by Point Special.
While I doubt that we'll ever get any posters to submit information for the 11 teams that did not submit previews, it does include previews from 48 of the 59 teams in the tournament, and all of the teams in the Sweet Sixteen. I hope you check it out and enjoy the content!
If there are any corrections or content additions you would like to me, please submit them to me by PM. Thanks! :)
You rock, April!
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:53:57 PM
Things will, or should, be the same, as per the NCAA's policy:
Quote from: NCAA Men's Div III Basketball Championship Handbook, page 36Four-team Sites: Day One–Two games
1. Home team will receive one-half of available seating. The remaining half of available seating will be equally distributed in terms of number and location among the three visiting teams.
2. Each section should have its own clearly identifiable tickets (separate color than home supporters, other visiting supporters or walk-up tickets)
3. Visiting teams must notify the host institution in writing (via fax) of any of its ticket allotment it has not sold by:
• First- and second-round sites: Thursday, March 1, noon (local time of the host institution);
• Sectional sites: Thursday, March 8, noon (local time of the host institution);
• If the host is not notified by the visiting team by the prescribed times, the visiting team shall be financially accountable for its total ticket allotment.
4. The host institutions must notify the other visiting teams by 3 p.m. of that same day, of their opportunity to purchase additional tickets (the "returned" tickets must be equally distributed among the remaining teams, based on requests by the visiting teams).
Example 1:
Host Team A receives one-half of the available tickets. Visiting teams B, C, and D are given equal portions of the remaining tickets. Teams A, B and C use their entire allotment. Team D returns 300 tickets. If teams A, B and C want all the tickets they can get, then each will receive 100 additional tickets.
Example 2:
Host Team A receives one-half of the available tickets. Visiting teams B, C, and D are given equal portions of the remaining tickets. Teams A, B and C use their entire allotment. Team D returns 300 tickets. Teams A and B want all the tickets they can get, but team C requests only 50 additional tickets. Therefore, team C gets 50 of the 300 remaining tickets, and teams A and B are given equal portions of the remaining allotment (125 each).
5. The host must be notified by 3 p.m. (local time of the host) on the first day of competition of the additionally offered tickets that will not be used by the visiting teams.
Stevens Point Sectional Ticket Policy (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/NCAAsectionaltickets.htm)
So, how does it work if they consider all games separate? 50/50? If they don't sell their allotment, are they given to the other school in that specific game or split among the other three teams, the other playing in the game and the teams in the other game?
Quote from: smedindy on March 05, 2007, 01:38:09 PM
Ah, but it's unique flavor is savored amongst those in that section of Ohio. Should I dare ask what makes 'trail bologna' different from other bologna or summer sausage? Should I enjoy some with haggis and lutefisk?
A mistake in labeling. They left off the "En" at the beginning.
Quote from: Old School on March 05, 2007, 06:34:27 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:53:57 PM
Things will, or should, be the same, as per the NCAA's policy:
Quote from: NCAA Men's Div III Basketball Championship Handbook, page 36Four-team Sites: Day One–Two games
1. Home team will receive one-half of available seating. The remaining half of available seating will be equally distributed in terms of number and location among the three visiting teams.
2. Each section should have its own clearly identifiable tickets (separate color than home supporters, other visiting supporters or walk-up tickets)
3. Visiting teams must notify the host institution in writing (via fax) of any of its ticket allotment it has not sold by:
• First- and second-round sites: Thursday, March 1, noon (local time of the host institution);
• Sectional sites: Thursday, March 8, noon (local time of the host institution);
• If the host is not notified by the visiting team by the prescribed times, the visiting team shall be financially accountable for its total ticket allotment.
4. The host institutions must notify the other visiting teams by 3 p.m. of that same day, of their opportunity to purchase additional tickets (the "returned" tickets must be equally distributed among the remaining teams, based on requests by the visiting teams).
Example 1:
Host Team A receives one-half of the available tickets. Visiting teams B, C, and D are given equal portions of the remaining tickets. Teams A, B and C use their entire allotment. Team D returns 300 tickets. If teams A, B and C want all the tickets they can get, then each will receive 100 additional tickets.
Example 2:
Host Team A receives one-half of the available tickets. Visiting teams B, C, and D are given equal portions of the remaining tickets. Teams A, B and C use their entire allotment. Team D returns 300 tickets. Teams A and B want all the tickets they can get, but team C requests only 50 additional tickets. Therefore, team C gets 50 of the 300 remaining tickets, and teams A and B are given equal portions of the remaining allotment (125 each).
5. The host must be notified by 3 p.m. (local time of the host) on the first day of competition of the additionally offered tickets that will not be used by the visiting teams.
Stevens Point Sectional Ticket Policy (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/NCAAsectionaltickets.htm)
So, how does it work if they consider all games separate? 50/50? If they don't sell their allotment, are they given to the other school in that specific game or split among the other three teams, the other playing in the game and the teams in the other game?
I don't have an answer to this, as it's not specifically covered in the Handbook. The Friday split session is an exception to the standard policy:
Quote from: Handbook page 35Tickets shall be for all sessions for a single day, unless the men's basketball committee approves a plan for split session tickets.
Because it's only considered an exceptional circumstance, the procedures for what to do in the event of the exception are not spelled out.
St. John Fisher is also holding a split session Friday. Wooster, which plays JCU in the first game, has announced a pre-sale of 450 tickets. Fisher's Varsity Gym has a capacity of 1200. Putting these two seemingly unrelated numbers together, I'd guess that the tickets for the first "neutral-site" game are split 50/50, and Wooster has reserved its first 150 tickets for VIPs such as players' parents and
Posting Up Hall of Famers faculty/staff etc. But that doesn't seem quite fair to the visiting team in the second game (Brockport St. for us, Wash U. for you), who probably only receive 1/3 of the capacity (at Fisher, that's 400 tickets) with the home team reserving 2/3, so I'm not sure of the arrangement.
What I am sure of it is that it ameliorates the "big crowd, small gym" problem Fisher is facing.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 07:16:43 PM
Quote from: Old School on March 05, 2007, 06:34:27 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:53:57 PM
Things will, or should, be the same, as per the NCAA's policy:
Quote from: NCAA Men's Div III Basketball Championship Handbook, page 36Four-team Sites: Day One–Two games
1. Home team will receive one-half of available seating. The remaining half of available seating will be equally distributed in terms of number and location among the three visiting teams.
2. Each section should have its own clearly identifiable tickets (separate color than home supporters, other visiting supporters or walk-up tickets)
3. Visiting teams must notify the host institution in writing (via fax) of any of its ticket allotment it has not sold by:
• First- and second-round sites: Thursday, March 1, noon (local time of the host institution);
• Sectional sites: Thursday, March 8, noon (local time of the host institution);
• If the host is not notified by the visiting team by the prescribed times, the visiting team shall be financially accountable for its total ticket allotment.
4. The host institutions must notify the other visiting teams by 3 p.m. of that same day, of their opportunity to purchase additional tickets (the "returned" tickets must be equally distributed among the remaining teams, based on requests by the visiting teams).
Example 1:
Host Team A receives one-half of the available tickets. Visiting teams B, C, and D are given equal portions of the remaining tickets. Teams A, B and C use their entire allotment. Team D returns 300 tickets. If teams A, B and C want all the tickets they can get, then each will receive 100 additional tickets.
Example 2:
Host Team A receives one-half of the available tickets. Visiting teams B, C, and D are given equal portions of the remaining tickets. Teams A, B and C use their entire allotment. Team D returns 300 tickets. Teams A and B want all the tickets they can get, but team C requests only 50 additional tickets. Therefore, team C gets 50 of the 300 remaining tickets, and teams A and B are given equal portions of the remaining allotment (125 each).
5. The host must be notified by 3 p.m. (local time of the host) on the first day of competition of the additionally offered tickets that will not be used by the visiting teams.
Stevens Point Sectional Ticket Policy (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/NCAAsectionaltickets.htm)
So, how does it work if they consider all games separate? 50/50? If they don't sell their allotment, are they given to the other school in that specific game or split among the other three teams, the other playing in the game and the teams in the other game?
I don't have an answer to this, as it's not specifically covered in the Handbook. The Friday split session is an exception to the standard policy:
Quote from: Handbook page 35Tickets shall be for all sessions for a single day, unless the men's basketball committee approves a plan for split session tickets.
Because it's only considered an exceptional circumstance, the procedures for what to do in the event of the exception are not spelled out.
St. John Fisher is also holding a split session Friday. Wooster, which plays JCU in the first game, has announced a pre-sale of 450 tickets. Fisher's Varsity Gym has a capacity of 1200. Putting these two seemingly unrelated numbers together, I'd guess that the tickets for the first "neutral-site" game are split 50/50, and Wooster has reserved its first 150 tickets for VIPs such as players' parents and Posting Up Hall of Famers faculty/staff etc. But that doesn't seem quite fair to the visiting team in the second game (Brockport St. for us, Wash U. for you), who probably only receive 1/3 of the capacity (at Fisher, that's 400 tickets) with the home team reserving 2/3, so I'm not sure of the arrangement.
What I am sure of it is that it ameliorates the "big crowd, small gym" problem Fisher is facing.
From the UWSP website announcing this policy (http://www.uwsp.edu/athletics/mbb/06-07/NCAAsectionaltickets.htm), it looks like each team is only being given tickets to the game they are playing in.
I agree, that's definitely how this reads.
I read it that way too, basically, I guess. I do anticipate plenty of tickets available come Friday...
But my point was, does Hope get 1400 and Washington U. get 1400 (just saying out of 2800) and then if Washington U. returns tickets, does Hope get first dibs on those returned tickets? Or, as per NCAA policy in the non-exception part, do the two other schools share equally with Hope on Washington U.'s returned tickets. I understand Hope travels well, but I don't see them selling 1400! lol.
Yeah, um, I guess I've lost whatever ability I had to explain myself. Yes, I think it is clear from the published policies and from the Handbook that the schools in the split sessions only get tickets for their own game and not the other one. The question I was trying to respond to was about how many tickets they get. :-\
OS, I assume that in the split session, the rules about two-team sessions more or less apply; that if team A returns some of their allotment, team B gets the first crack at them, and any left go to general admission. The confusing part is that the Handbook assumes that one of the two teams will be the home team (and thus entitled to 2/3 of the the tickets). In the first game of a split session night, there is no home team, and judging from Wooster's allotment, I'm guessing that the split is 50/50 rather than 67/33.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 07:16:43 PM
What I am sure of it is that it ameliorates the "big crowd, small gym" problem Fisher is facing.
Like Lawrence...but those were all general admission, "sit where ever you can find a seat" tickets. It was mess. I mean, they had the LU student section, the "for LU" fans, the "for IWU" fans and then the "everyone else who can't fit in those areas" areas. Guess where we got stuck, even though we were there for the first one? >:(
Point, for your information, is all reserved seating, so it won't be a bum rush to get back to your seat.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 09:34:31 PM
The question I was trying to respond to was about how many tickets they get. :-\
I would hope the answer is only 1/3 capacity.........the winner Friday will only get 1/3 tickets if they play point. I would hate to think they'd allow 1000 fans to travel to Stevens Point only to tell them they only have 800 tickets for Saturday.
My guess is the early game Friday won't be close to full unless the Point locals show up out of curiosity.
edit: I will add I'm really surprised this is a split session.
Sac,
Sounds right for the Saturday night game IF the host wins on Friday. I have a feeling a lot of Point fans will show up on Friday for the Carroll/Hope game.
I'm also very surprised it's a split session. In 2005 it wasn't, but then again, it was Hanover, Puget Sound and Trinity (TX), I believe.
Maybe, after the conference call, they decided to do it just in case considering Hope's traveling support, Carroll being fairly close and Washington U. really not exceptionally far...and of course, the Point fans.
I guess I'm glad it's a split session, so more Pointer fans can attend the first game.
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2007, 09:40:22 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 09:34:31 PM
The question I was trying to respond to was about how many tickets they get. :-\
I would hope the answer is only 1/3 capacity.........the winner Friday will only get 1/3 tickets if they play point. I would hate to think they'd allow 1000 fans to travel to Stevens Point only to tell them they only have 800 tickets for Saturday.
Wooster is selling 450 tickets to a 1200 seat venue for the Friday game, that's more than 1/3. I hadn't considered the problem of potentially having more seats for the Friday game (1/2) than for the Saturday game (1/3), that could potentially be a cluster.
Now that this "exception" has been invoked multiple times, I hope next year the actual procedures are added to the Handbook. :P
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2007, 09:40:22 PM
My guess is the early game Friday won't be close to full unless the Point locals show up out of curiosity.
And shell out another $7? Assuming that Point wins, that's $21... and that's if you go alone! I would have loved to see Hope and Carroll play, but I'm not about to get off work an hour early to pay double price.
That said... the split session will allow more fans (seemingly UWSP fans, but possibly fans from other schools if they are projecting needing MORE than about 450 tickets... from looking at past stats, I think the capacity was capped at a bit over 2700) to see the game on Friday. What happens for Saturday's game is certainly up in the air, as far as what the allotment would be for teams after the first game vs the second game.
I'll make it easy on everybody... I'm going to be at the game Friday night, but then I've gotta go to Illinois on Saturday to celebrate a birthday that my neice won't remember.... but that's not the point, my dad tells me, because her MOTHER (my sister) will remember, and that's what really matters!
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 05, 2007, 09:54:28 PM
And shell out another $7? Assuming that Point wins, that's $21... and that's if you go alone! I would have loved to see Hope and Carroll play, but I'm not about to get off work an hour early to pay double price.
LOL.... Two
days off of work,
plane ticket, rental car, three nights in a hotel... and three tickets no matter what.... Just saying... :P ;) :D
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 05, 2007, 09:54:28 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2007, 09:40:22 PM
My guess is the early game Friday won't be close to full unless the Point locals show up out of curiosity.
And shell out another $7? Assuming that Point wins, that's $21... and that's if you go alone! I would have loved to see Hope and Carroll play, but I'm not about to get off work an hour early to pay double price.
That said... the split session will allow more fans (seemingly UWSP fans, but possibly fans from other schools if they are projecting needing MORE than about 450 tickets... from looking at past stats, I think the capacity was capped at a bit over 2700) to see the game on Friday. What happens for Saturday's game is certainly up in the air, as far as what the allotment would be for teams after the first game vs the second game.
I'll make it easy on everybody... I'm going to be at the game Friday night, but then I've gotta go to Illinois on Saturday to celebrate a birthday that my neice won't remember.... but that's not the point, my dad tells me, because her MOTHER (my sister) will remember, and that's what really matters!
A couple of things.
It's better than the $10 A GAME Lawrence was charging, and they had a split session at the 1100 seat Alexander. And, at least the seats at Quandt are reserved, unlike Lawrence.
I think seeing Hope and Carroll play is worth it.
Your sister isn't going to remember either. Ask her in five years and she won't have a clue what you wore or what you bought for your neice. Believe me.
... She sent an email a few weeks ago (an unsolicited email, at that), telling me and my wife about the party and what we could get our neice...
then she said:
I don't know how much you want to spend (please don't feel like you really have to get anything...just being there is enough!)
I immediatly thought "so, we can send a gift in place of ourselves...?"
I didn't even bother to mention that one to any of the women in my life (wife, sister, mother, neice...) The thought of the glare I'd get would be enough!
I'm just getting pumped up for Friday night.... so I have a REASON to claim the computer for Saturday to listen to the pbp!
point I know how you feel unfortunatly, I will be in Boston all day friday and then have to work most of saturday so I will be unable to make it out to rochester...but I think that people won't be disapointed...the fisher campus is truly a beautiful campus and the gym while small is a nice gym and maybe you'll get the chance to meet the DIII all-time winningest womens coach...I will post resturants probably wednesday or thursday
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 05, 2007, 10:19:04 PM
I immediatly thought "so, we can send a gift in place of ourselves...?"
I didn't even bother to mention that one to any of the women in my life (wife, sister, mother, neice...) The thought of the glare I'd get would be enough!
:D :D :D :D Awesome... I totally would have tried it. ;D :-X ;)
Actually, I totally feel your pain. The second time you guys won the national championship was the weekend of my uncle's wedding. It was in Raleigh, NC, and the wedding was Saturday evening... so, I watch the semis, and high tailed it to the wedding and made it there with an hour to spare. Changed in the bathroom of the church. :D The whole time during the ceremony I kept thinking... I wonder what is happening? ??? :D
I considered making a joke about it to him at the reception, like "what were you doing scheduling your wedding the weekend of the DIII Final Four???!?!" But I figured that would come of sounding really bad and kept my mouth shut. However, I have since told my family not to ever schedule anything important that weekend... and that if I ever schedule something that weekend, call the FBI to dealienify me. So far so good... my baby sister's wedding is in July! :D ;D 8)
If it's any consolation, I skipped the Augustana game vs. Point to go bowling with my brother and nephews when they were up from Florida. It was their first time bowling...and yeah, I smoked 'em! lol ;D
Quote from: Old School on March 06, 2007, 01:49:35 AM
If it's any consolation, I skipped the Augustana game vs. Point to go bowling with my brother and nephews when they were up from Florida. It was their first time bowling...and yeah, I smoked 'em! lol ;D
If you remain that devoted to bowling, you could just end up as Mayor of Cleveland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_J._Perk). Just be sure to be careful around welder's torches. :D
LOL. Just devoted to seeing my brother and nephews since I hadn't seen them since last summer when they moved to Florida!
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2007, 09:01:38 AM
I'm not sure if this came up or not, but Plattsburgh State won a game in this year's tournament. It is the second time they've won a tournament game, the first was back in the second tournament in 1976. That's gotta be the longest time between tourney wins, right?
It's a tie. Rhode Island College also hadn't won a game in the big dance since that 1976 tourney.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:59:49 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 05:41:31 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:51:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 12:18:33 AM
I'll be the judge of whether LeFrak or "Varsity Gym" is bigger this weekend, I guess. LeFrak has a lot of room for temporary seating.
Well, cool, I hope (and I mean hope) to see you in Rocha-cha-cha! :) If you have an extra press pass laying around...I used to be an amateur photographer...and I can spell...I can talk at halftime about Top 25 minutiae... :P :-* ;D
Let us know if the famed Rochester garbage plate tops trail mix, bologna, and Faygo red pop. ;)
Not "trail mix [and] bologna"; you're thinking of Troyer's Genuine Trail Bologna:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coonscandy.com%2FP3230004.jpg&hash=209eae16e67990310da259a9733013514f813531)
Yes, that's it. I misremembered because you haven't brought it up in the ODAC room in what ... three years or so? This processed meat product clearly needs to take on the same iconic status that you and Sac have created for the DeVos condiment stand -- particularly since it seems to gross out April. Please make a note to post that bologna pic whenever it seems even faintly appropriate ... or even highly inappropriate.
On the other hand, my inadvertent concoction of trail mix and bologna has a distinct kimchi-and-spam sort of entertainment quality to it. F'rinstance, imagine coating the bologna in trail mix and then frying it ...
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2007, 05:06:43 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:59:49 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2007, 05:41:31 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 12:51:46 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2007, 12:18:33 AM
I'll be the judge of whether LeFrak or "Varsity Gym" is bigger this weekend, I guess. LeFrak has a lot of room for temporary seating.
Well, cool, I hope (and I mean hope) to see you in Rocha-cha-cha! :) If you have an extra press pass laying around...I used to be an amateur photographer...and I can spell...I can talk at halftime about Top 25 minutiae... :P :-* ;D
Let us know if the famed Rochester garbage plate tops trail mix, bologna, and Faygo red pop. ;)
Not "trail mix [and] bologna"; you're thinking of Troyer's Genuine Trail Bologna:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.coonscandy.com%2FP3230004.jpg&hash=209eae16e67990310da259a9733013514f813531)
Yes, that's it. I misremembered because you haven't brought it up in the ODAC room in what ... three years or so? This processed meat product clearly needs to take on the same iconic status that you and Sac have created for the DeVos condiment stand -- particularly since it seems to gross out April. Please make a note to post that bologna pic whenever it seems even faintly appropriate ... or even highly inappropriate.
On the other hand, my inadvertent concoction of trail mix and bologna has a distinct kimchi-and-spam sort of entertainment quality to it. F'rinstance, imagine coating the bologna in trail mix and then frying it ...
mmmmmmmmmmmmm Fried bologna and trailmix.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 06, 2007, 05:06:43 AMThis processed meat product clearly needs to take on the same iconic status that you and Sac have created for the DeVos condiment stand -- particularly since it seems to gross out April.
:D I'll admit that idea is funny... But the color of that "meat" product is so wrong... I mean, the color of it doesn't look like it's slanting toward an oddish sort of neon pink to anyone else? I can only assume it's called Trail Bologna becaue it won't grow mold despite being carried for months on the trail... :P :-X
BTW - Today is my wife's birthday (and on my Diaryland site you may wish her well), and one of my birthday presents was NOT to get her trail bologna! Hah!
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 09:34:31 PM
In the first game of a split session night, there is no home team, and judging from Wooster's allotment, I'm guessing that the split is 50/50 rather than 67/33.
Did you mean 66.6666/33.3333 split? :D
Quote from: pufin on March 06, 2007, 01:10:35 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 09:34:31 PM
In the first game of a split session night, there is no home team, and judging from Wooster's allotment, I'm guessing that the split is 50/50 rather than 67/33.
Did you mean 66.6666/33.3333 split? :D
:) :D :)
+1!
Quote from: pufin on March 06, 2007, 01:10:35 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 09:34:31 PM
In the first game of a split session night, there is no home team, and judging from Wooster's allotment, I'm guessing that the split is 50/50 rather than 67/33.
Did you mean 66.6666/33.3333 split? :D
I wondered how long it would take...nearly 16 hours...disappointing. ;)
Quote from: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 12:46:20 PMI can only assume it's called Trail Bologna becaue it won't grow mold despite being carried for months on the trail... :P :-X
It's called Trail Bologna since it is concocted in the village of Trail, Ohio. Mold won't grow on it strictly out of professional courtesy. :P :D
Currently, with 52% an overwhelming majority of the 65 voters in this poll believe that a team from a one-bid conference is going to win the whole thing.
However, out of the 16 remaining teams only 4.5 are from such conferences. (I have no idea what to do with Lincoln. On the one hand they're the only independent in the tournament, but on the other, they don't actually have a conference to be the one-bid from. It's a tough one. I guess a Lincoln national championship would mean that everyone was wrong.)
Only Stevens Point, Carroll, St. John Fisher, and Wooster are still alive from one-bid conferences and only two of them actually have a shot at the title (they would have to eliminate each other). The odds of the majority winning this pool are looking pretty slim right now.
[Unless of course you factor in that two of the best teams in the nation are still on track to make the final game, but whatever.]
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 03:00:00 PM
Quote from: pufin on March 06, 2007, 01:10:35 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2007, 09:34:31 PM
In the first game of a split session night, there is no home team, and judging from Wooster's allotment, I'm guessing that the split is 50/50 rather than 67/33.
Did you mean 66.6666/33.3333 split? :D
I wondered how long it would take...nearly 16 hours...disappointing. ;)
Quote from: diehardfan on March 06, 2007, 12:46:20 PMI can only assume it's called Trail Bologna becaue it won't grow mold despite being carried for months on the trail... :P :-X
It's called Trail Bologna since it is concocted in the village of Trail, Ohio. Mold won't grow on it strictly out of professional courtesy. :P :D
And no small amount of fear.
I think if Lincoln shooting the ball good they are going to the final four.
Quote from: MR. PAC on March 06, 2007, 04:16:04 PM
I think if Lincoln shooting the ball good they are going to the final four.
yeah... ???
Quote from: MR. PAC on March 06, 2007, 04:16:04 PM
I think if Lincoln shooting the ball good they are going to the final four.
That makes me cringe.
Mr. PAC:
I would love to see Lincoln shoot the lights out to the final four and make alot of people cringe ;D .
Quote from: smedindy on March 06, 2007, 01:02:25 PM
BTW - Today is my wife's birthday (and on my Diaryland site you may wish her well), and one of my birthday presents was NOT to get her trail bologna! Hah!
You are the last of the great romantics, Scott.
Quote from: njlincolnlion on March 06, 2007, 06:12:04 PM
Mr. PAC:
I would love to see Lincoln shoot the lights out to the final four and make alot of people cringe ;D .
I was referring more to the grammar than the shooting...sorry I wasn't specific. :D
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2007, 03:00:00 PM
It's called Trail Bologna since it is concocted in the village of Trail, Ohio. Mold won't grow on it strictly out of professional courtesy. :P :D
But where is Trail, Ohio?? ???
Oh, about 15 miles east of Millersburg, Ohio where a specific D3Hoops Hall of Famer resides!
David, by any chance do you have Trail Bologna for lunch occasionally?? :D :P :o ;D
In the interest of full disclosure, I will admit to having driven through Trail, Ohio on my way to Walnut Creek -- just never stopped the car to sample the local cuisine! :) ;) :D
2007 D3 SWEET SIXTEEN| team | apps | 1st app | E8 | F4 | 1-2-3-4 | W-L | pct |
| Rhode Island C. | 4 | 1975 | 1 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 4-5 | .444 |
| Brockport State | 8 | 1975 | 2 | 1 | 0-0-0-1 | 12-7 | .632 |
| Virginia Wesleyan | 7 | 1978 | 1 | 1 | 1-0-0-0 | 9-7 | .563 |
| Wooster | 16 | 1978 | 2 | 1 | 0-0-1-0 | 15-15 | .500 |
| Hope | 18 | 1982 | 2 | 2 | 0-2-0-0 | 21-19 | .525 |
| John Carroll | 10 | 1983 | 3 | 1 | 0-0-1-0 | 18-11 | .621 |
| Washington (MO) | 12 | 1987 | 2 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 13-11 | .542 |
| St. John Fisher | 13 | 1992 | 1 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 8-12 | .400 |
| Amherst | 10 | 1994 | 4 | 2 | 0-0-0-2 | 16-11 | .593 |
| UW-Stevens Point | 6 | 1997 | 4 | 2 | 2-0-0-0 | 17-3 | .850 |
| Mississippi C. | 9 | 1998 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 8-8 | .500 |
| Keene State | 2 | 2004 | 1 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 4-1 | .800 |
| Carroll | 2 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 2-1 | .667 |
| Lincoln | 2 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 4-1 | .800 |
| Guilford | 1 | 2007 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 2-0 | 1.000 |
| Stevens | 1 | 2007 | 0 | 0 | 0-0-0-0 | 2-0 | 1.000 |
Pretty amazing to have just two former champions left, and they happen to be the most recent former champions.
Breaking news from CNN.com:
The Associated Press reports that an Ohio baseball player pulled from the wreckage of an Atlanta bus crash that killed four of his teammates died this morning, raising the crash death toll to seven, a hospital spokeswoman said.
Please take a moment to think about Bluffton baseball as you attend the tournament games tonight.
Lincoln in the final four wouldn't make me cringe - they took their lumps earlier in the year.
Final: Wooster 83 John Carroll 73
Great win for Wooster as they go to the ELITE EIGHT! :) ;D
Scots came up big in the 2nd half and their offensive production was too much for John Carroll.
Wooster was led by Tim Vandervaart with 16 points, Tom Port with 16 points, Brandon Johnson with 14 points, James Cooper with 13 points and Devin Fulk with 10 points.
John Carroll was led by Rudy Kirbus with 23 points, Brandon Mimes with 21 points (11 boards), Terry Walsh with 11 points and Pete Moran with 11 points.
Wooster is now 28-3 ;D Next up is the St. John Fisher/Brockport winner.
GO SCOTS!
I hope everyone is listening to the Guilford-Lincoln game. It's heading into triple OT and both teams are exhausted. Guilford's big center Ben Strong has 52 points already and hit the game-tying shot in double OT with 2.6 seconds left. All I can say is WOW!
The winner of that 3 ot game will have to ice bath and hydrate with all the other fun stuuf to be ready for tomorrow or else they might be playing themselves right out of the final four
Sorry to hear that some of the Lincoln players walked off the court without shaking hands.
Surprising? No. But...one hell of a game.
Matt:
If all you got out of the game is that some Lincoln players didn't shake hands, then it really shows your disdain for Lincoln. Now that you've got your wish, perhaps you'll have more time with your newborn infant.
Now that you won't have Lincoln to kick around anymore, you'll have to find another team to bash.......perhaps Salisbury.
d-mac:
Great job announcing the VWC Sectional tonight.
He did do a fantastic job. A real pro.
Well, NJ, I only listened to the overtime.
I got that it was one hell of a game, too. Not really much else to say, other than wow. Salisbury...nah? That's over. I doubt they'll even be on a Catholic schedule again. And they were what--.300 against Catholic in the last decade, if that?
You know why I have a problem with Lincoln--nothing more than what happened. You wouldn't forget it if it happened to your team, trust me.
Yeah, I did get my wish, I suppose. I'm sure Lincoln is pretty disappointed, but honestly, they participated in one of the greatest games in D3 history and put up 128 points. That's a pretty good way to go out of the league, if you're going to go out, don't you think? Better than having some punk trying to reverse slam on you in a double digit game, at least.
I'll even tell you flat out that I was wrong--I thought that if somebody could hang with them for 37 minutes or so, they'd be able to put them away. I know Lincoln lost, but I still wasn't right--Guilford came back in regulation, but in OT Lincoln didn't seem to make the kind of mistakes I thought they would. So there you go. One factor in their ability to stay in it had to be their extreme depth. At a certain point, I actually thought Guilford would fold just from pure fatigue--Lincoln was probably better conditioned for that kind of game because they go so deep, and well, they are not a stranger to putting up a ton of points.
Looks like an all ODAC group down there, barring an incredible comeback by Mississippi. What a run that conference has had this year--even Hampden Sydney, who beat a good Hood team and then hung in there (to say the least) against VWC.
Congratulations to the Guilford Quakers and VWC Marlins advancing to the Elite 8 in what has become the ODAC Sectional.
Two totally different games tonight with game one a classic, and the second game a blowout.
Now that Lincoln is out, I'll still be around. I'll be on the Track & Field Board tomorrow to see if the Lions can do some damage in the Indoor NCAA's.
I have to pull for Guilford to go all the way, so that Lincoln can say they lost to the eventual NCAA Champions again by one point.
Matt, good post and good luck to the Cardinals in the Landmark. The Lions had a good run but came up a point short.
Same here. I think Lincoln is better suited to D2, and I bet they'll have some success. At the last, they'll shake things up.
Believe me, NJ, if everybody associated with Lincoln (on the court) was as classy as you, I'd never have a bad word to say. I know you'd prefer it to be that way too. Well, maybe there will be a lesson learned there somewhere.
But despite all that, congratulations on a fine, fine season.
Quote from: njlincolnlion on March 09, 2007, 09:52:08 PM
d-mac:
Great job announcing the VWC Sectional tonight.
Quote from: Matt Letourneau on March 09, 2007, 10:15:54 PM
He did do a fantastic job. A real pro.
Thanks guys... I appreciate the kind words. That first game was hands down one of the best games I have seen... ever! To be able to call the game was not only an honor... but something I will never forget. I am just disappointed the second game didn't live up to its hype!
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2007, 03:11:51 PM
Currently, with 52% an overwhelming majority of the 65 voters in this poll believe that a team from a one-bid conference is going to win the whole thing.
However, out of the 16 remaining teams only 4.5 are from such conferences. (I have no idea what to do with Lincoln. On the one hand they're the only independent in the tournament, but on the other, they don't actually have a conference to be the one-bid from. It's a tough one. I guess a Lincoln national championship would mean that everyone was wrong.)
Only Stevens Point, Carroll, St. John Fisher, and Wooster are still alive from one-bid conferences and only two of them actually have a shot at the title (they would have to eliminate each other). The odds of the majority winning this pool are looking pretty slim right now.
[Unless of course you factor in that two of the best teams in the nation are still on track to make the final game, but whatever.]
Wooster is the only remaining one-bid-conference team in the draw.
How did the Guilford Lincoln game end. And how did Lincoln act after the lost.
Here's what I remember of how Guilford - Lincoln ended.
Back and forth, back and forth. By the third overtime, all players on both teams were exhausted. Lincoln had four players fouled out. I think it was mostly as a way of stopping Strong, which would have worked if he couldn't shoot fouls so well; he hit a foul shot to put Guilford up by one with something like 10 seconds to play.
Lincoln took the ball downcourt and Wylie put up a runner near the lane. It might have dropped, but Strong's hand met it on the way up; Strong tried to control the block, but lost the ball out of bounds. Lincoln inbounded under the basket with about 4 seconds left and was met with a defensive scrum that resulted in the ball rolling on the floor. Lincoln hustled and got the ball, put up a shot under some pressure, and missed. My memory says Lincoln rebounded and put up another shot (is that possible?) which also missed. A Guilford player grabbed the ball and threw it up in the air as time expired.
My heart goes out to Lincoln players, who played a great game. If two teams play a game that many people called "the best basketball game I've ever seen, on any level", and one of them loses by one point, doesn't that losing team sound like a really good team?
More on the Guilford - Lincoln game.
With a 3 point Lincoln lead and 2 seconds remaining at the end of regulation, nearly everyone in the gym thought it was over. I think the Lincoln fans did; I didn't, mainly because of an electrifying 85-foot shot by Jordan Snipes at the end of a game against Randolph-Macon a couple years back. I figured the ball would either go in to Snipes, or maybe Kimbrough for a last shot. Snipes got the ball on a dead run streaking towards the basket and let fly at breakneck speed from a loong way out (about 1/3 the distance of his shot of a couple years back). The buzzer sounded while the ball was in the air, and it was electrifying when the ball banked in. Those type of shots don't usually work. Electrifying!
After the game (the entire game!), some Lions were lying on the floor. Harsh disppointment, I'm sure. I think they expected to beat Guilford. I think they actually expected to intimidate Guilford (what do I know, really?); if so, it was an unrealistic expectation.
I heard some Lions didn't do the post-game handshake, but I didn't see any of that. If so, I don't think Guilford players were offended, I think they would have understood.
Thank you sludge for the game summary.
Just merged topics.
Here's some tidbits of information for your perusal about this season's field of 59:
First appearance in D3 tournament:Baptist Bible
Clarkson
Curry
Immaculata
John Jay
Middlebury
St. Mary's (MD)
Seven newbies ... just like last year.Members of original 1975 field who are in this year's tournament:Augustana
Brandeis
Rhode Island College
Scranton
Widener
Longest wait since most recent D3 tourney appearance:| Moravian | 1983 |
| Ohio Wesleyan | 1988 |
| Heidelberg | 1995 |
| Richard Stockton | 1997 |
| Nazareth | 1998 |
| Bowdoin | 1999 |
| Franklin | 2000 |
| Massachusetts-Dartmouth | 2001 |
| Millsaps | 2001 |
| Gettysburg | 2002 |
Most D3 tourney appearances (incl. this year):| Salem State | 21 |
| Scranton | 21 |
| Hope | 19 |
| Wooster | 17 |
| Widener | 16 |
| Maryville (TN) | 15 |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 14 |
| Massachusetts-Dartmouth | 13 |
| Washington (MO) | 13 |
| Pomona-Pitzer | 12 |
| Rochester | 12 |
Most D3 tournament wins:| Scranton | 33 |
| Rochester | 23 |
| Augustana | 22 (33 g) |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 22 (34 g) |
| Hope | 22 (42 g) |
| Salem State | 21 |
| Amherst | 20 |
| Widener | 19 |
| Wisconsin-Stevens Point | 17 (21 g) |
| Wooster | 17 (34 g) |
Most D3 tournament losses:| Salem State | 22 |
| Hope | 20 (42 g) |
| Scranton | 20 (53 g) |
| Wooster | 17 (34 g) |
| Widener | 17 (36 g) |
| Centre | 15 |
| Maryville (TN) | 14 |
| Massachusetts-Dartmouth | 13 |
| Richard Stockton | 12 (26 g) |
| Washington (MO) | 12 (28 g) |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 12 (36 g) |
Top D3 tournament winning pct. (all teams)| Ohio Wesleyan | 5-0 | 1.000 |
| Wisconsin-Stevens Point | 17-4 | .810 |
| Rochester | 23-11 | .676 |
| Augustana | 22-11 | .667 |
| Guilford | 2-1 | .667 |
| Amherst | 20-11 | .645 |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 22-12 | .643 |
| Scranton | 33-20 | .623 |
| Virginia Wesleyan | 12-8 | .600 |
| Washington (MO) | 16-12 | .571 |
Here is another tidbit I worked on after Elms SID, Justin, prompted me to figure it out.
There are only six schools in this year's tournament who have now appeared in four straight (or more) tournaments.
Maryville (TN) - 10
Amherst - 9
Wooster - 6
Va. Wesleyan - 4
WPI - 4
Elms - 4
Top D3 tournament winning pct. (min. 10 wins):| Wisconsin-Stevens Point | 17-4 | .810 |
| Rochester | 23-11 | .676 |
| Augustana | 22-11 | .667 |
| Amherst | 20-11 | .645 |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 22-12 | .643 |
| Scranton | 33-20 | .623 |
| Virginia Wesleyan | 12-8 | .600 |
| Washington (MO) | 16-12 | .571 |
| Richard Stockton | 14-12 | .538 |
| Widener | 19-17 | .528 |
Bottom D3 tournament winning percentage (all teams):| Elms | 0-3 | .000 |
| Gettysburg | 0-3 | .000 |
| Lasell | 0-3 | .000 |
| Fontbonne | 0-2 | .000 |
| Moravian | 0-2 | .000 |
| Loras | 0-1 | .000 |
| Mary Hardin-Baylor | 0-1 | .000 |
| Aurora | 1-5 | .167 |
| Bethany | 2-6 | .250 |
| Averett | 1-3 | .250 |
Bottom D3 tournament winning percentages (min. 10 games played):| Pomona-Pitzer | 2-11 | .267 |
| Buena Vista | 3-7 | .300 |
| Worcester Polytech | 4-6 | .400 |
| Centre | 11-15 | .423 |
| Capital | 5-6 | .455 |
| Rhode Island College | 5-6 | .455 |
| Ursinus | 6-7 | .462 |
| Maryville (TN) | 13-14 | .481 |
| Salem State | 21-22 | .488 |
| Wooster | 17-17 | .500 |
| Nazareth | 5-5 | .500 |
Most Elite Eights:| Augustana | 5 |
| Rochester | 5 |
| Scranton | 5 |
| Wisconsin-Stevens Point | 4 |
| Richard Stockton | 3 |
| Centre | 3 |
| Washington (MO) | 3 |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 3 |
| Wooster | 3 |
| Hope | 3 |
Most Final Fours:| Augustana | 4 ('75, '76, '81, '93) |
| Rochester | 4 ('90, '92, '02, '05) |
| Scranton | 4 ('76, '77, '83, '88) |
| Amherst | 3 ('04, '06, '07) |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 3 ('83, '84, '89) |
| Centre | 2 ('79, '89) |
| Hope | 2 ('96, '98) |
| Virginia Wesleyan | 2 ('06, '07) |
| Widener | 2 ('78, '85) |
| Wisconsin-Stevens Point | 2 ('04, '05) |
| Wooster | 2 ('03, '07) |
National championships:| Scranton | 2 ('76, '83) |
| Wisconsin-Stevens Point | 2 ('04, '05) |
| Wisconsin-Whitewater | 2 ('84, '89) |
| Amherst | 1 ('07) |
| Ohio Wesleyan | 1 ('88) |
| Rochester | 1 ('90) |
| Virginia Wesleyan | 1 ('06) |
Widener used to be a power back in the day from what I understand, and being right outside of Philly they are in a recruiting hot bed. If they can put it together again recruiting wise, combined with the conference they are in, they should be making many tournament appearances to come. That being said I do not know how good they will do in this year's tournament, I think I have them as one and done, or maybe not even through the first round I can not remember.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2008, 07:11:20 AM
Here's some tidbits of information for your perusal about this season's field of 59:
First appearance in D3 tournament:
Baptist Bible
Clarkson
Curry
Immaculata
I beg your pardon, but this is at least my 10th appearance in an NCAA tournament.
LOL!!! ;D +k
Lemon curry?
Thanks for all the interesting facts Sager!
Not sure if Pomona will improve on that 2-11 record this year :-\
Quote from: sac on March 04, 2008, 02:53:47 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 04, 2008, 07:11:20 AM
Here's some tidbits of information for your perusal about this season's field of 59:
First appearance in D3 tournament:
Baptist Bible
Clarkson
Curry
Immaculata
I beg your pardon, but this is at least my 10th appearance in an NCAA tournament.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dkimages.com%2Fdiscover%2Fpreviews%2F896%2F20159733.JPG&hash=7eee82a5c624ac26a1544784e61abee498edbc3e)
Ba-dum-bum!
Link for live audio and live video of tonight's Bethany vs. Capital game:
http://www.capital.edu/166/
Yep, and for those who come to Posting Up rather than the front page, for your linking pleasure
7pm- Coast Guard at Trinity
http://sportsjuice.com
Not sure where to post this, but I figured this board made as much sense as anywhere else did...
You're amazing pabegg! Thanks for all of your statistical work.
Quote from: atnwriter on March 06, 2008, 03:07:06 PM
Yep, and for those who come to Posting Up rather than the front page, for your linking pleasure
And freakin' shame on you if you do.
Who would come directly to posting up? You got to atleast check out the latest news first! :) My bookmark is the front page...then I go directly to posting up :)
Amazingly, a lot of people go to d3hoops.com and then straight to the Posting Up. It's a shame so many people think of this site as simply a message board.
Capital beats Bethany 92-70. Big run to close the 1st half and go up 50-32. Never really threatened after that, maintaining an 18 to 20 pt lead for the rest of the game.
Kings College pounds Clarkson 96-66. Kings grabs an early lead and up by 16 7:30 into the game. Coasted to a 47-21 halftime lead. Closest Clarkson got was down by 17. Kings opened up a 33 pt lead and emptied the bench.
Coast Guard 70, Trinity CT 65!
Coast Guard upsets Trinity 70-65. Coast Guard opened up a 10 pt lead halfway thru the 2nd half . Trinity closed to within 1 at 62-61 with 3 min. left but Coast Guard hit some key foul shots down the stretch to come away with the W.
Another mild upset as John Jay beats Moravian 80-74. Now they get the defending champs, Amherst. Now that would be an upset.
I didn't have faith in John Jay, but I picked the Coast Guard upset.
Quote from: magicman on March 06, 2008, 09:12:23 PM
Another mild upset as John Jay beats Moravian 80-74. Now they get the defending champs, Amherst. Now that would be an upset.
Wow! And Chapman is sitting home! That is just ugly!
I did not like that Chapman was passed over. I really don't think that that was an upset.
Ralph, I'd imagine the Oxy fans are not real thrilled either. IMO, if Chapman had gotten the B (OR Cal Lu a C), there'd be a 4-team west coast pod, and it would be at Oxy.
I didn't think that win over Moravian was much of an upset either, though John Jay had a losing record going into it.
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
OR that Moravian had no business in the tourney.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:20:10 PM
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
OR that Moravian had no business in the tourney.
+1, Mr Ypsi!
Occidental beats Pomona-Pitzer to advance to the 2nd round. Final score was 52-51. Oxy's Connor Whitman hits a 5 ft runner with 12 seconds left for the game winner. Pomona had a last chance to win, taking a time out with 6.5 secs left, but their final shot was blocked by Huston Conti. Whitman led the tigers with 15 pts, all in the 2nd half. Chris Hunt chipped in with 14. Justin Sexton led Pomona with 20 pts.
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Why is that?
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Why is that?
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Why is that?
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
Ever-tough CUNYAC? Is that the same CUNYAC that is right across the river from NJ? The CUNY did well against the NJAC this year but they are not that tough a conference. They are tough against each other but generally they do not fare well against out of conference opposition.
pabegg.
Thanks for all the work you put in keeping us informed as to the Pool C's.
Also kudos to Tom Doebler and David Collinge for all your updates thruout the season.
Plus k for all.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
So, you are agreeing with me? ???
Thanks magicman.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 11:42:36 PM
Ever-tough CUNYAC? Is that the same CUNYAC that is right across the river from NJ? The CUNY did well against the NJAC this year but they are not that tough a conference. They are tough against each other but generally they do not fare well against out of conference opposition.
The NJAC was considered down anyway, right? One team in the tourney. John Jay must have been considered better than Moravian, even though the latter got the home game.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 11:42:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Why is that?
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
Ever-tough CUNYAC? Is that the same CUNYAC that is right across the river from NJ? The CUNY did well against the NJAC this year but they are not that tough a conference. They are tough against each other but generally they do not fare well against out of conference opposition.
I believe Mr. Ypsi was being sarcastic.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 11:42:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Why is that?
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
Ever-tough CUNYAC? Is that the same CUNYAC that is right across the river from NJ? The CUNY did well against the NJAC this year but they are not that tough a conference. They are tough against each other but generally they do not fare well against out of conference opposition.
KS, I've often been accused of too many emoticons - for you I guess I use to few! I
thought it was clear that 'ever-tough' was meant sarcastically. :P
OS, see above! To NYBB, John Jay beating
anybody probably constituted an upset. But Moravian
may be located somewhere below 'anybody'. If Amherst doesn't have a win locked up by halftime, cancel their Final Four reservations. :o
John Jay vs Moravian, both a couple of dogs. (Bloodhounds vs Greyhounds)
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 11:48:00 PM
John Jay must have been considered better than Moravian, even though the latter got the home game.
Moravian was probably a mild favorite against John Jay.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Why is that?
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
YES! Not picking on you Mr Ypsi, but I think that UDallas was a little deceptive and needs to be replaced as the "avatar". :)
As I ran Pool B in my calculations that year, I thought that UDallas was the final Pool B candidate in a very weak Pool B. UDallas was 8-3 in-region and took Sul Ross State to the wire, losing 71-67 in Alpine. Two nights later SRSU drove 400 miles to San Antonio to beat a #8 Trinity team 74-72 in OT. SRSU then rode three hours by bus to El Paso and then flew to Sea-Tac, where they lost in OT to a well-respected #23 Lawrence team, who in turn lost in OT to national champion UWSP on a neutral floor. (
2004 Week 14 Men's Top 25 (http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/04/week14.htm))
Comparative scores are always dangerous, but those games were very tight!
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 06, 2008, 11:51:32 PM
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 06, 2008, 11:42:36 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2008, 11:29:18 PM
Quote from: NYBB on March 06, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
John Jay winning means an upset happened.
Why is that?
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
Ever-tough CUNYAC? Is that the same CUNYAC that is right across the river from NJ? The CUNY did well against the NJAC this year but they are not that tough a conference. They are tough against each other but generally they do not fare well against out of conference opposition.
I believe Mr. Ypsi was being sarcastic.
I am never quite sure with Mr. Ypsibonney, sometimes he is serious when everyone thinks he is joking.
Besides, my brain has not been functioning normally lately. I really haven't been able to follow what has been going on this season. Must be having my mid-life crisis.
Mr Y,
I caught that ever tough sarcasm. But I knew someone would come after you for it.
KS, that I can live with. When I get in trouble is when I'm joking and everyone thinks I'm serious! :D
Ralph, I kinda remember that UDallas was legitimately selected as the final pool B; but a 13-12(?) team getting selected 'at large' really caused an uproar against pool B in general from a lot of left out pool C fans! Now they can get off the hook from a pool B that may NOT have been legitimately selected (or at least not wisely).
It's the NCAA tourney, so I'll put this post in the NCAA tourney board.
I LOVE candid pictures like the one on the front of the website showing the Coast Guard player holding the ball (by the side line, or is he throwing the ball in?) and the student section just heckling the guy. Amazing how close they are to him! I just get a good laugh looking at all the fans, their reactions and stuff like (also, on those "game winning shot" pics-not necessarily looking at the shot itself, but the fans' reactions, sometimes some of them not even watching it, playing on their cell phones, looking at other people, picking their nose etc) and of course, I check to see if there are any good looking women at the game! lol. ;D :D ;)
Yeah.
And I looked at that and wondered why security wasn't keeping them the proper distance away from the sidelines. :)
Last time I was at Trinity, they had a fan ejected during the game.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2008, 12:11:36 AM
Ralph, I kinda remember that UDallas was legitimately selected as the final pool B; but a 13-12(?) team getting selected 'at large' really caused an uproar against pool B in general from a lot of left out pool C fans! Now they can get off the hook from a pool B that may NOT have been legitimately selected (or at least not wisely).
The Handbook allocated 36 Pool A, 6 Pool B and 6 Pool C bids.
That was when the AMCC, the NEAC, the North Atlantic Conference and the Presidents AC got Pool B bids, and the Northern Illinois-Iowa and Lake Michigan Conferences were in Pool A.
Don't we love the change in the bid allocation ratio to 1:6.5!
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 07, 2008, 12:23:02 AMI LOVE candid pictures like the one on the front of the website showing the Coast Guard player holding the ball (by the side line, or is he throwing the ball in?) and the student section just heckling the guy. Amazing how close they are to him! I just get a good laugh looking at all the fans, their reactions and stuff
I thought the same thing. The unknown photographer who took that picture snapped a great one!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2008, 11:58:21 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 06, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
John Jay finished tied for 6th in the ever-tough CUNYAC before winning the AQ. On the other hand, Moravian may replace U Dallas as the 'avatar' of 'Bumblin' Bs'! :D
YES!
Not picking on you Mr Ypsi, but I think that UDallas was a little deceptive and needs to be replaced as the "avatar". :)
I can't believe that you two are discussing whether Moravian or UDallas ought to be the avatar of the Bumblin' Bs. If Moravian and/or UDallas is the avatar of Pool B bumblitude, then Cazenovia is freakin' Vishnu himself. ;) :D
:D +1, GS!
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 12:30:52 AM
Yeah.
And I looked at that and wondered why security wasn't keeping them the proper distance away from the sidelines. :)
Last time I was at Trinity, they had a fan ejected during the game.
It reminded me of the old Penn State gym...
For extensive live coverage of Brandeis basketball in the NCAA tournament, click on over to www.wbrs.org. WBRS, 100.1FM Waltham, will be both in NJ with the women and at home with the men! Here's the broadcast schedule for tonight:
5PM- Taped interview with Brian Meehan, head coach of the Mens squad
5:20- Womens Pregame
5:30- Womens basketball vs. Southern Maine @ Kean University
* Brian Raab, Ravi Kotecha, and Zach Aronow on the call
* Taped interview with Stephen Hill, mens center at half-time
7:45-Mens Pregame
8:00PM-Mens basketball vs. Lasell College @ Red Auerbach Arena
* Steven Gross, Ben Gellman-Chomsky, and Ian Guss on the call
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 12:30:52 AM
Yeah.
And I looked at that and wondered why security wasn't keeping them the proper distance away from the sidelines. :)
Last time I was at Trinity, they had a fan ejected during the game.
I didn't think they were allowed to be that close. At NJCU and other NJAC venues if the stands are that close to the court the schools will not let fans sit in the first row, or will not open the stands completely.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 07, 2008, 12:09:02 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2008, 12:30:52 AM
Yeah.
And I looked at that and wondered why security wasn't keeping them the proper distance away from the sidelines. :)
Last time I was at Trinity, they had a fan ejected during the game.
I didn't think they were allowed to be that close. At NJCU and other NJAC venues if the stands are that close to the court the schools will not let fans sit in the first row, or will not open the stands completely.
For most Trin games, those stands are not used and the benches are on that side. When the attendance is expected to be larger than normal the bleachers are brought out and the benches moved to the other side. They may not have anticipated such a crowd as most games there only see about 400 people total.
Either way, Coast Guard handled it very well and played a helluva game.
Fans were that close in the old Holland Civic Center, too; DeVos has a bit more space.
Pat, is Dave McHugh still going to be on the audio call from Centre tonight if he hasn't gotten snowed out of Danville?
Here's an odd piece of trivia that I wish I'd posted with Greg Sager's "tidbits of information" a few pages back. Twin press releases:
CHICAGO -- The University of Chicago women's basketball team will travel to the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point where it will take on the University of St. Thomas (Minn.) in the opening round of the 2008 NCAA Division III Tournament Friday, Mar. 7 at 6 p.m.
-------
CHICAGO -- The University of Chicago men's basketball team will travel to the University of St. Thomas (Minn.) where it will take on the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point in the opening round of the 2008 NCAA Division III Tournament Friday, Mar. 7 at 6 p.m.
Men go to A to play B; women go to B to play A. What are the odds of that?
PBrooks:
Hopefully.
All audio available here.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
I totally read that post wrong and then right, so I deleted my original post. St. Thomas, Chicago and St. Norbert in the Stevens Point women's regional and Chicago, Buena Vista and Stevens Point in the St. Thomas regional! Too funny. Now we just have to get rid of the Buena Vista men or the St. Norbert women!
Quote from: gordonmann on March 07, 2008, 04:29:52 PM
PBrooks:
Hopefully.
All audio available here.
http://www.d3hoops.com/audio/
Dave is coming through loud and clear. 22-17 OWU. Thanks Gordon.
Rhode Island beats Nazareth 77-73.
Virginia Wesleyan beats WPI 80-75.
Elms beats Scranton 71-53.
Washington U. beats Wooster 79-74
Point beats Chicago 67-53 after Chicago charges to a 17-0 lead.
Wheaton and Lawrence go to overtime before Wheaton wins it 93-83
University of Rochester wins 56-43 over Middlebury.
Brandeis easily beats Lasell 80-59.
So much for Guilford... I had them going into the final 4... :-\
Ursinus 94 Baptist Bible 76
Gettysburg 95 Salem State 85
Augustana downs Aurora 72-61.
UWW falls at home to Loras, 71-68. [My pick ems is officially dead.]
What was that someone said about this being the most wide open men's tourney in a number of years?!?
First round and 2 D-III hoops Top #10 teams go down...
Millsaps 80, Maryville TN 72
Millsaps was lead by Edrick Montgomery 28 points, 7 boards; Lorenzo Bailey 18 points, 11 rebounds.
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 07, 2008, 11:10:11 PM
What was that someone said about this being the most wide open men's tourney in a number of years?!?
First round and 2 D-III hoops Top #10 teams go down...
I think that this is the parity that has been promoted by D3hoops.com.
The world just got smaller. More fans know more teams; more teams know each other better!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2008, 11:12:42 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 07, 2008, 11:10:11 PM
What was that someone said about this being the most wide open men's tourney in a number of years?!?
First round and 2 D-III hoops Top #10 teams go down...
I think that this is the parity that has been promoted by D3hoops.com.
The world just got smaller. More fans know more teams; more teams know each other better!
Yes, I agree. I've read a number of discussions this season where people have argued that there didn't seem to be clearly dominant teams out there this year, but a whole lot of good teams.
It should make this tournament into an excellent one.
Penn State Behrend 83, Farmingdale State 62
Richard Stockton 84, Immaculata 75
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 07, 2008, 09:58:49 PM
So much for Guilford... I had them going into the final 4... :-\
That's OK I had them winning it all. At least on 1 entry. I've got a back up with my home team, but that's chosen by the heart and not the head. But who knows, the smart entry certainly didn't work out. Really disappointing. Guilford ran into a red-hot Tyson Lesesne who was 10x13 from the field including 6x9 from 3 pt range. Ben Strong had another huge game with 35 pts but St.Mary's placed 4 guys in double figures and Guilford could only manage 1 other player with double digits.
Massey's MOV Ratings has Guilford at #1 and St. Mary's, MD at #185. And St. Mary's didn't just eek out a win, they won by 12 at Guilford.
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 07, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Massey's MOV Ratings has Guilford at #1 and St. Mary's, MD at #185. And St. Mary's didn't just eek out a win, they won by 12 at Guilford.
Can you calculate what Massey said the probability of that occurring would be?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2008, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 07, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Massey's MOV Ratings has Guilford at #1 and St. Mary's, MD at #185. And St. Mary's didn't just eek out a win, they won by 12 at Guilford.
Can you calculate what Massey said the probability of that occurring would be?
I believe he used the old "snowballs chance" formula to calculate the probability.
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 07, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Massey's MOV Ratings has Guilford at #1 and St. Mary's, MD at #185. And St. Mary's didn't just eek out a win, they won by 12 at Guilford.
St.Marys took control around the 14 min mark of the 2nd half by turning a 46-39 deficit into a 54-46 lead with a 15-0 run. Guilford never got closer than 8 or 9 after that.
I always thought the Massey Ratings were OVER-RATED.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 07, 2008, 11:38:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2008, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 07, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Massey's MOV Ratings has Guilford at #1 and St. Mary's, MD at #185. And St. Mary's didn't just eek out a win, they won by 12 at Guilford.
Can you calculate what Massey said the probability of that occurring would be?
I believe he used the old "snowballs chance" formula to calculate the probability.
KS Good one! plus k
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2008, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 07, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Massey's MOV Ratings has Guilford at #1 and St. Mary's, MD at #185. And St. Mary's didn't just eek out a win, they won by 12 at Guilford.
Can you calculate what Massey said the probability of that occurring would be?
I can't improve on Knightstalker's response. But if you know the answer, I wouldn't mind hearing the probability.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 07, 2008, 11:38:01 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2008, 11:35:35 PM
Quote from: Rhodes Scholar on March 07, 2008, 11:33:53 PM
Massey's MOV Ratings has Guilford at #1 and St. Mary's, MD at #185. And St. Mary's didn't just eek out a win, they won by 12 at Guilford.
Can you calculate what Massey said the probability of that occurring would be?
I believe he used the old "snowballs chance" formula to calculate the probability.
:D ROTFLMAO!
+1!
20 of the D3Hoops Top 25 teams have played so far with 12 of them winning and 8 of them losing. Remaining 4 play their 1st game on Sat. #23 UW-Platteville didn't get a bid. Other teams receiving votes went 6-3. In the 3 games matching Top 25 teams, the higher ranked team won all 3.
HEY COAST GUARD!!
I hear UMASS-Dartmouth thinks you are NA-VY RE-JECTS (clap, clap, clap clap clap)
Just saying..... ::)
Maybe because it is very late after a very long day... but that was hysterical! LOL!
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2008, 11:07:32 PM
UWW falls at home to Loras, 71-68. [My pick ems is officially dead.]
Actually, 71-70...
I saw two great games (as a neutral fan) in Whitewater tonight. An OT game and a one point game.
Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2008, 11:42:26 PM
St.Marys took control around the 14 min mark of the 2nd half by turning a 46-39 deficit into a 54-46 lead with a 15-0 run. Guilford never got closer than 8 or 9 after that.
I always thought the Massey Ratings were OVER-RATED.
You know, any rating system can't take into account human elements, flukes, karma, kismet, or other such things that happen during games. These things do happen, often.
This definitely will be in the "10 most unlikely results" that he tracks.
Pabeggs power rating had Guilford at 10 and St. Mary's at 187. So that seems to validate Massey more than denigrate.
I mean, Denison beat Wittenberg one year.
Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on March 08, 2008, 12:25:28 AM
HEY COAST GUARD!!
I hear UMASS-Dartmouth thinks you are NA-VY RE-JECTS (clap, clap, clap clap clap)
Just saying..... ::)
Everybody on the Coast Guard team should be 6' or over, they have to be that tall so they can wade to shore if their cutter sinks.
Last Saturday, when the Wooster coaches were nervously tracking scores of other games to assess their Pool C chances, one of them pointed out to me that it looked like four teams they had beaten would likely get bids (Ohio Wesleyan, St. Thomas, Farmingdale St., and St. Mary's). He then pointed out--without my having reacted in any way--that he though St. Mary's was being drastically overlooked and that they were a much better team than everyone was giving them credit for. Now, he didn't exactly pick an upset win over Guilford, since the brackets hadn't even been drawn up yet, but in retrospect I think this is a very interesting offhand comment. (Wooster beat St. Mary's 85-70 (http://athletics.wooster.edu/mb/recaps/2007-08/bahamas.php) in the Bahamas in December.)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2008, 11:07:32 PM
UWW falls at home to Loras, 71-68. [My pick ems is officially dead.]
Mine too. I had UWW winning it all. Sigh. :P :-[ :-\ Oh well - Hope's still alive (an advantage of not yet having played).
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 08, 2008, 03:57:13 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2008, 11:07:32 PM
UWW falls at home to Loras, 71-68. [My pick ems is officially dead.]
Mine too. I had UWW winning it all. Sigh. :P :-[ :-\ Oh well - Hope's still alive (an advantage of not yet having played).
Yeah, I had Guilford (who was also upset) winning it all, and beating UWW in a semi in Salem - the entire left side of the bracket wiped out almost before it began! :(
And, stubborn cuss that I am, I STILL liked my picks - it is just that kind of a year.
Is there any place where they post the scores for the bracket pick em contests, is it in the pick em league thread or some where separate?
Buena Vista beats UWSP 54-53. Bad shooting night for both teams, Point has an opportunity with 1.8 to go, but can't get a shot off.
Wheaton beats Loras 76-73, Raymond gets 36 points. White gets 25 for Loras, had a look at the buzzer, but missed it.
Augie and Wash U going to overtime 61-61.
WashU wins 70-67 in OT. UAA 3-0 in round 2.
Last night at Millsaps College, Fontbonne asked if there would be media timeouts. Fu was told no media timeouts this weekend. Tonight in the MC v. MH-B game they are playing with regular media timeouts. How can this be? FU plays basically 6 players and could of use the time to get the extra rest intead of subbing. This is very very wrong.
Plattsburgh State comes back from a 7 pt halftime deficit to beat Kings College 83-77 in OT. Kings up 63-60 with 1:44 left in regulation when Plattsburgh clamps down and grabs a 69-66 lead with 20 secs left. King's hits a 3 pt shot that goes in and out and rolls around the rim before it drops thru with 7 ticks left to force overtime. Plattsburgh freshman Chris Ruiz hits 3 straight shots to open up the extra session and the Cardinals never looked back. Plattsburgh moves on to face Brandeis in the sectionals next Friday, in an as yet undetermined location. But it'll probably be Amherst. unless the NCAA decides to spread the wealth a bit. I think Amherst has hosted 3 sectionals in the past 4 years.(I may be wrong on that but I know they've hosted 2.
The team that sticks out to me at this juncture is Wash U with two terrific wins over stellar competition. Have they got what it takes to cut down the nets in Salem?
Score for the so-called "Power Conferences":
UAA -- Washington, Brandeis, and Rochester have all made the Sweet Sixteen
NESCAC -- Amherst is the only one left of the original 4 NCAA entries
ODAC -- No one left, with VA Wesleyan and Guilford both eliminated
WIAC -- No one left, with Whitewater and Stevens Point both eliminated
CCIW -- Wheaton is still in, with Augustana eliminated
Overall, 16 of 59 teams are still in. That's 27%.
Of teams from the "power conferences," 5 of the original 14 teams are still in. That's 36% ... so maybe one could argue that the Pool C bids to these conferences were not misplaced, that they deserved the 1-3 Pool C bids that each received.
I guess that the only conference other than the UAA to have more than 1 team among the Sweet Sixteen is the Centennial Conference (Ursinus and Gettysburg).
Quote from: algernon on March 09, 2008, 10:09:38 AM
Score for the so-called "Power Conferences":
UAA -- Washington, Brandeis, and Rochester have all made the Sweet Sixteen
NESCAC -- Amherst is the only one left of the original 4 NCAA entries
ODAC -- No one left, with VA Wesleyan and Guilford both eliminated
WIAC -- No one left, with Whitewater and Stevens Point both eliminated
CCIW -- Wheaton is still in, with Augustana eliminated
Overall, 16 of 59 teams are still in. That's 27%.
Of teams from the "power conferences," 5 of the original 14 teams are still in. That's 36% ... so maybe one could argue that the Pool C bids to these conferences were not misplaced, that they deserved the 1-3 Pool C bids that each received.
I guess that the only conference other than the UAA to have more than 1 team among the Sweet Sixteen is the Centennial Conference (Ursinus and Gettysburg).
But what makes a "power conference" is not necessarily the strength at the top, but rather the depth of the league. Looking at the 2008 CCIW finish, for example...
Augustana: 11-3
Illinois Wesleyan 9-5
Wheaton 9-5
Elmhurst 8-6
Carthage 7-7
North Park 6-
9 8
North Central 4-10
Millikin 2-12
Consider:
* Pool A team Augustana lost to 5th place Carthage and 6th place North Park. (And Augustana is a legitimate Top 15 type team.)
* Pool C Wheaton - heading to the Sweet 16 - was swept by 7th place North Central and lost three games to Illinois Wesleyan (including the conference tournament semifinal)
* Elmhurst beat #1-ranked Hope on a neutral court
* 7th place North Central lost in overtime at Cal Lutheran - regarded as a very serious Pool C candidate.
I think you could make similar points about the WIAC, the UAA, NESCAC, and whoever the "power conferences" are.
Those of us who follow the CCIW have been pretty clear all season long that our league didn't have a real national powerhouse this year, but as always, the CCIW was one of the strongest conferences in Division III due to its balance and depth. Illinois Wesleyan has been to Salem three times now as an at-large team - 1996, 2001, and 2006. "Power conferences" are power conferences because of how strong teams 2 through 6 or so are. Not because of the strength of the top. I certainly don't think the top teams in the CCIW, WIAC, UAA, and NESCAC are better than the best in the NCAC or MIAA (many years, they are not as good actually), but leagues like the latter two are weighed down by some marginal and/or poor teams.
(Edited by GS, because Bob gave one too many losses to my alma mater and I am a compulsive nitpicker. ;) :D )
Looking at the matchups for the sectionals, it appears to me that WashU has the clearest path to Salem. Hope will have to face a hot OWU team, and perhaps a Wheaton team that features one of the tourney's best players and will be primed for revenge. Perhaps another Amherst/Brandeis matchup out east (that's the toughest bracket left, clearly), and a pretty good set-up for Rochester in their sectional. 3 UAA teams in the Final Four, maybe? Not unthinkable.
The sectional hosts have been selected:
http://www.ncaa.com/uploadedFiles/Sports/Basketball_(M)/BR-08D3MBB.pdf
It looks like Plattsburgh state got the nod over Amherst, along with Ursinus, Hope and WashU.
Isn't that 2 years in a row for Plattsburgh?
For families, fans and students traveling to STL next weekend. There are two hotels at Hampton and Interstate 44, Red Roof and a nice Holiday Inn. Both are priced with in mosts budgets. Holiday Inn would be my first choice. These are five minutes from campus. The Drury Inn at Union Station is a more upscaled choice. Fifteen minutes tops and in the heart of the entertainment area. Just thought I'd toss it out. Safe travels.
The UAA and the Centennial Conference have the only multiple teams left in the Championship. That will change as Ursinus and Gettysburg meet in the next round. If the UAA wins out it could look like another league playoff. Good luck to all.
Any suggestions for reasonably priced hotels in the plattsburgh area.
Microtel on Rte 3 get the corporate rate and tell them you are coming there for Basketball games
Funny, in the years when I've paid closer attention, I've never been as high in the bracket challenge as I am right now.
I don't expect to stay there, but it makes me feel good about picking the first weekend.
"...
Isn't that 2 years in a row for Plattsburgh? ..."
2 years in a row for what ?
3 years in a row as SUNYAC champions with the Automatic bid to the NCAA.
1st time since 1976 to be into the Sweet 16.
Quote from: old ends on March 09, 2008, 02:31:47 PM
The UAA and the Centennial Conference have the only multiple teams left in the Championship. That will change as Ursinus and Gettysburg meet in the next round. If the UAA wins out it could look like another league playoff. Good luck to all.
Who needs a conference tournament when you have the NCAAs? ;)
Hey yellowjacket2011 and knightstalker nice jokes about the Coast Guard BUT, when your yacht is in distress or a group of illegals show up on your ocean front property or an oil spill occurs near your mansion and all the wildlife are dying on your front lawn or a boat brings in another shipment of cocaine from Colombia and your 16 year old sister becomes a crack head, who are you going to call?
Let's hope your wise cracking brain is smart enough to call the Coast Guard!
Quote from: Titan Q on March 09, 2008, 10:50:57 AM
I think you could make similar points about the WIAC, the UAA, NESCAC, and whoever the "power conferences" are.
Those of us who follow the CCIW have been pretty clear all season long that our league didn't have a real national powerhouse this year, but as always, the CCIW was one of the strongest conferences in Division III due to its balance and depth. Illinois Wesleyan has been to Salem three times now as an at-large team - 1996, 2001, and 2006. "Power conferences" are power conferences because of how strong teams 2 through 6 or so are. Not because of the strength of the top. I certainly don't think the top teams in the CCIW, WIAC, UAA, and NESCAC are better than the best in the NCAC or MIAA (many years, they are not as good actually), but leagues like the latter two are weighed down by some marginal and/or poor teams.
You have referred to the CCIW, WIAC, UAA, and NESCAC as power conferences, but failed to include the ODAC in your discussion, even though I had included the ODAC in my "scoring" after they were included in a Posting Up poll question.
The ODAC would seem to meet any definition of "power conference," including the definition based upon depth within the conference. Hampden-Sydney went to Salem four years ago as a Pool C bid and Virginia Wesleyan went to the national championship game last year as a Pool C bid. #8 Guilford lost to the ODAC's #3 team and #5 team this year. #21 Virginia Wesleyan lost to the ODAC's #4 and #7 teams this year. In the ODAC, there was great depth from #1 through #7, and each of these teams had winning out-of-conference records (generally 5-2 or 6-1 against non-conference opponents for each of the top 7 ODAC teams). Given that the ODAC's been to the Final Four in 4 of the last 9 years .... and certainly has had great depth through the top 6 or 7 teams, it seems reasonable to include the ODAC in any specific referencing of possible power conferences .....
Seems like a pretty defensive defense of something most of us take for granted: Yes, the ODAC is a power conference. Breathe deeply.
Quote from: fpc85 on Yesterday at 03:18:08 pm
any suggestions for reasonably priced hotels in the plattsburgh area?
Ticket info. Plattsburgh State College Center 518-564-2000
Places to stay in Plattsburgh.
Best Western on Rt 3 518-561-7750 5 mins. from gym
Holiday Inn on Rt 3 518-561-5000 " "
Comfort Inn on Rt 3 518-562-2730 " "
Econo Lodge on Rt 3 518-561-1500 " "
Microtel Inn & Suites on Rt 3 518-324-3800 " "
Day's Inn on Rt 3 518-561-0403 " "
Fine Dining in Plattsburgh.
Anthony's Restaurant & Bistro Rt 3 518-561-6420
Butcher Block Restaurant Rt 3 518-563-0920
These are 2 of Plattsburgh's Finest. Reservation will probably be required so call ahead.
Other fine establishments are
Arnie's Restaurant downtown Plattsburgh Fine Italian Restaurant since 1951 518-563-3003
Irises Cafe & Wine Bar downtown Plattsburgh 518-566-7000
And of course we have most of the chains. Pizza Hut, Applebys, Ground Round, Friendly's, Lum's, Ninety Nine, and a host of others.
Weather report for the coming weekend was lower to mid 40's and rain.
Quote from: sac on March 09, 2008, 01:22:37 PM
Isn't that 2 years in a row for Plattsburgh?
sac.
Plattsburgh had never even hosted an NCAA game in hoops until this past weekend. Sectionals have been at Amherst quite a bit over the last 4 or 5 years.
For Plattsburgh fans we had 3 dreams come true in the past week. First to be named as a host, then the bye, and now the sectional host. Will wonders ever cease? But we feel the NCAA got it right, as we were the only undefeated regional team in the country, and did have the best overall record in the country. The bad news is the Plattsburgh sectional is probably the toughest of the 4 with 3 of the remaining 8 teams from the D3Hoops top 25 poll.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 09, 2008, 10:50:57 AMThose of us who follow the CCIW have been pretty clear all season long that our league didn't have a real national powerhouse this year, but as always, the CCIW was one of the strongest conferences in Division III due to its balance and depth. Illinois Wesleyan has been to Salem three times now as an at-large team - 1996, 2001, and 2006.
... and North Park
won the national championship in 1985 as an at-large team. The Vikings tied with North Central for the league championship, but NCC got the automatic bid on the fifth tiebreaker, league record over the last nine games (the CCIW did not have a conference tournament at that point).
I enthusiastically second what Q is saying here. League strength is measured top-to-bottom, not just by the teams at the top.
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 09, 2008, 12:22:13 PM
Looking at the matchups for the sectionals, it appears to me that WashU has the clearest path to Salem. Hope will have to face a hot OWU team, and perhaps a Wheaton team that features one of the tourney's best players and will be primed for revenge. Perhaps another Amherst/Brandeis matchup out east (that's the toughest bracket left, clearly), and a pretty good set-up for Rochester in their sectional. 3 UAA teams in the Final Four, maybe? Not unthinkable.
Yes, but the northeastern section
as a whole was not impressive. Just look at those teams that got knocked out in the first weekend. Immaculata? John Jay? Curry? Manhattan? Nazareth? The teams that moved on into the sectional are good, but the section as a whole had no depth. Conversely, while the Wash U sectional appears to be a bit light now that the smoke has cleared from opening weekend, it was a very strong section as a whole coming into the first round (Augustana, UWSP, Wooster, Guilford, etc.).
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2008, 12:54:17 AM
Seems like a pretty defensive defense of something most of us take for granted: Yes, the ODAC is a power conference. Breathe deeply.
Seems like an unnecessary judgmental response by the moderator: No surprise there. Chill out.
Quote from: baseballguy on March 09, 2008, 11:47:19 PM
Hey yellowjacket2011 and knightstalker nice jokes about the Coast Guard BUT, when your yacht is in distress or a group of illegals show up on your ocean front property or an oil spill occurs near your mansion and all the wildlife are dying on your front lawn or a boat brings in another shipment of cocaine from Colombia and your 16 year old sister becomes a crack head, who are you going to call?
Let's hope your wise cracking brain is smart enough to call the Coast Guard!
Hey Baseballclown, my older brother spent 12 years in the Coast Guard, who do you think gave me all the Coast Guard jokes? I spent 4 years in the Navy, who do you think gave him all the Navy jokes. It is called interservice rivalry, it goes on all the time. Lighten up Francis.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 07:20:33 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 09, 2008, 10:50:57 AMThose of us who follow the CCIW have been pretty clear all season long that our league didn't have a real national powerhouse this year, but as always, the CCIW was one of the strongest conferences in Division III due to its balance and depth. Illinois Wesleyan has been to Salem three times now as an at-large team - 1996, 2001, and 2006.
... and North Park won the national championship in 1985 as an at-large team. The Vikings tied with North Central for the league championship, but NCC got the automatic bid on the fifth tiebreaker, league record over the last nine games (the CCIW did not have a conference tournament at that point).
I enthusiastically second what Q is saying here. League strength is measured top-to-bottom, not just by the teams at the top.
I wonder how many of the national champions in D3 have been at-large teams.
On a different note ... some of you may be interested to know that Hampden-Sydney's former coach, Tony Shaver, who led the Tigers for 17 years and took them to the Final Four in 1999 and 2003 before taking the Head Coach position at William and Mary, will be on ESPN this evening as his team plays George Mason for the Colonial Athletic Association championship. In 23 years of conference history, the William and Mary team has only once before made it as far as the CAA semifinals, but Coach Shaver has turned the program around. The Tribe went into this year's tourney seeded #5 and have defeated the #12, #4, and now the #1 seed (Virginia Commonwealth) to advance to the CAA championship game. A lot of Hampden-Sydney folk will be tuned in and hoping that Coach Shaver's new team will win their way into the NCAA tournament.
KS, I said nice jokes! I guess my good nature fun does not come across well in print.
Quote from: baseballguy on March 09, 2008, 11:47:19 PM
Hey yellowjacket2011 and knightstalker nice jokes about the Coast Guard BUT, when your yacht is in distress or a group of illegals show up on your ocean front property or an oil spill occurs near your mansion and all the wildlife are dying on your front lawn or a boat brings in another shipment of cocaine from Colombia and your 16 year old sister becomes a crack head, who are you going to call?
Let's hope your wise cracking brain is smart enough to call the Coast Guard!
Wow. I thought the SUNYAC guys had a chip on their shoulder. First a few facts:
I the NA-Vy RE-JECT chant was used by Trinity and according to witnesses, served to steel the resolve of the the Toasties. I was simply trying to motivate CG against UMD. With apparant positive results.
I don't own a Yacht, though I served in Uncle Sam's Yacht Club for 4 years. During which time the CG was fair game.
I live in a land-locked village of 800 in the middle of NY. No mansion...no oceanfront property.
No 16-year old sister. Never had one...never will. Well, that's not completely true. But it was a LONG time ago.
You need to lighten up and enjoy the ride.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 07:26:50 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 09, 2008, 12:22:13 PM
Looking at the matchups for the sectionals, it appears to me that WashU has the clearest path to Salem. Hope will have to face a hot OWU team, and perhaps a Wheaton team that features one of the tourney's best players and will be primed for revenge. Perhaps another Amherst/Brandeis matchup out east (that's the toughest bracket left, clearly), and a pretty good set-up for Rochester in their sectional. 3 UAA teams in the Final Four, maybe? Not unthinkable.
Yes, but the northeastern section as a whole was not impressive. Just look at those teams that got knocked out in the first weekend. Immaculata? John Jay? Curry? Manhattan? Nazareth? The teams that moved on into the sectional are good, but the section as a whole had no depth. Conversely, while the Wash U sectional appears to be a bit light now that the smoke has cleared from opening weekend, it was a very strong section as a whole coming into the first round (Augustana, UWSP, Wooster, Guilford, etc.).
I was referring, of course, to the games that are left. I think most people would agree the WashU bracket was the toughest at the beginning, and that the Bears have had the toughest slate to date; but at this point they seem to me to have the easiest route to Salem.
By the way - I'm sad to say I got the Donald Sutherland reference. :)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 07:26:50 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 09, 2008, 12:22:13 PM
Looking at the matchups for the sectionals, it appears to me that WashU has the clearest path to Salem. Hope will have to face a hot OWU team, and perhaps a Wheaton team that features one of the tourney's best players and will be primed for revenge. Perhaps another Amherst/Brandeis matchup out east (that's the toughest bracket left, clearly), and a pretty good set-up for Rochester in their sectional. 3 UAA teams in the Final Four, maybe? Not unthinkable.
Yes, but the northeastern section as a whole was not impressive. Just look at those teams that got knocked out in the first weekend. Immaculata? John Jay? Curry? Manhattan? Nazareth? The teams that moved on into the sectional are good, but the section as a whole had no depth. Conversely, while the Wash U sectional appears to be a bit light now that the smoke has cleared from opening weekend, it was a very strong section as a whole coming into the first round (Augustana, UWSP, Wooster, Guilford, etc.).
The Wash U regional was thought to be a very tough regional and was a very tough regional so why is it still not strong. The teams like St Marys, and Buena Vista beat those good teams to get here and in my opinion BV has been overlooked all year at the national level because of what conference they are in and starting the season off slow. They didnt play the big time teams in their non conference schedule. I would not overlook BV because i think they are yet to play their best game and could really go off. They have won their first two games by a full team effort and nobody has scored more than i believe 12.
where can i get the start times for the games this weekend...i am trying to justify a full day off for my 6 hour ride to plattsburgh :)
Quote from: fpc85 on March 10, 2008, 10:20:30 AM
where can i get the start times for the games this weekend...i am trying to justify a full day off for my 6 hour ride to plattsburgh :)
The start times are on the brackets. Amherst Stockton starts at 6:00, Plattsburgh Brandeis will probably start by 8:45-9:00 at the latest.
Go Ospreys. Then there is the standard NJAC reply to Go Ospreys, What the He!! is an Osprey? I know, it's a seahawk, but it is still fun to shout it out.
I reminder... men's games times are always pre-set. They are 6 & 8 PM local time for the games on Fridays and then at 7PM for Saturday's game. The only change that could have is if the gym at a host site is "cleared" between games on Friday.
Quote from: baseballguy on March 09, 2008, 11:47:19 PM
Hey yellowjacket2011 and knightstalker nice jokes about the Coast Guard BUT, when your yacht is in distress or a group of illegals show up on your ocean front property or an oil spill occurs near your mansion and all the wildlife are dying on your front lawn or a boat brings in another shipment of cocaine from Colombia and your 16 year old sister becomes a crack head, who are you going to call?
Let's hope your wise cracking brain is smart enough to call the Coast Guard!
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nonstick.com%2Fcharacters%2Fpics%2Felmer.gif&hash=91e674a6671d4a7592ce3cdaea3d2f49ee179132)
My name is Elmer J. Fudd, millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
I think the UAA gets the props and nod for sending 3 to the last 16 and the possibility for all 3 to go to the Finals. Impressive. Congrats to the strongest conference in 2008.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 10, 2008, 10:26:40 AM
Quote from: fpc85 on March 10, 2008, 10:20:30 AM
where can i get the start times for the games this weekend...i am trying to justify a full day off for my 6 hour ride to plattsburgh :)
The start times are on the brackets. Amherst Stockton starts at 6:00, Plattsburgh Brandeis will probably start by 8:45-9:00 at the latest.
Go Ospreys. Then there is the standard NJAC reply to Go Ospreys, What the He!! is an Osprey? I know, it's a seahawk, but it is still fun to shout it out.
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 10, 2008, 10:54:33 AM
I reminder... men's games times are always pre-set. They are 6 & 8 PM local time for the games on Fridays and then at 7PM for Saturday's game. The only change that could have is if the gym at a host site is "cleared" between games on Friday.
Thanks! I know the Ospreys well...I was recruited by them many years ago.
Quote from: Knightstalker on March 10, 2008, 10:26:40 AM
Go Ospreys. Then there is the standard NJAC reply to Go Ospreys, What the He!! is an Osprey? I know, it's a seahawk, but it is still fun to shout it out.
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmissoulaosprey.com.ismmedia.com%2FISM2%2FOpponentManager%2F61.jpeg.100.jpeg&hash=bfa2602ff1c42f9f4e98b2cd80d19dced83e6191) (http://www.missoulaosprey.com/)
Now that we're down to the Sweet 16, who do you think will survive each of the 4 regions and make it to Salem. Will we have any more upsets?
Cast your vote at http://www.tobannounced.com/index_files/Page3174.html (http://www.tobannounced.com/index_files/Page3174.html)
It not too bold of a guess but...I don't think all four hosts will make it out alive
Now that we're down to the Sweet 16, who do you think will survive each of the 4 regions and make it to Salem. Will we have any more upsets?
Cast your vote at http://www.tobannounced.com/index_files/Page3174.html
I agree, I think we will have some surprises this weekend. I think Stockton survives the Plattsburgh bracket, but I am not sure of the other 3 yet.
Quote from: algernon on March 10, 2008, 08:22:36 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 10, 2008, 07:20:33 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 09, 2008, 10:50:57 AMThose of us who follow the CCIW have been pretty clear all season long that our league didn't have a real national powerhouse this year, but as always, the CCIW was one of the strongest conferences in Division III due to its balance and depth. Illinois Wesleyan has been to Salem three times now as an at-large team - 1996, 2001, and 2006.
... and North Park won the national championship in 1985 as an at-large team. The Vikings tied with North Central for the league championship, but NCC got the automatic bid on the fifth tiebreaker, league record over the last nine games (the CCIW did not have a conference tournament at that point).
I enthusiastically second what Q is saying here. League strength is measured top-to-bottom, not just by the teams at the top.
I wonder how many of the national champions in D3 have been at-large teams.
I've often wondered that myself. Unfortunately, it's hard to unearth the facts about some of the earlier champions who have long since altered conference affiliations. For example, did Wabash's league back in '82 have an automatic berth? I'm pretty sure that the original D3 champ back in '75, LeMoyne-Owen, was an independent and thus an at-large. Also, UW-Whitewater would've been an at-large for both of its national championships ('84 and '89), because the WIAC (or the WSUC, as it was then called) was mostly an NAIA league in those days.
Those three, and the '85 North Park team, are the only four at-large titleholders that I'm sure about.
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 10, 2008, 09:35:23 AMBy the way - I'm sad to say I got the Donald Sutherland reference. :)
Alright! Better to work to an audience of one than to an empty room! ;)
The 1996 Rowan team that won the national title did not win the NJAC -- Richard Stockton won the conference title that year.
I am pretty sure Amherst was an at-large team last year, losing to Williams at home in their conference tournament.
wait, say that again, you think stockton what....they are in arguably the toughest bracket of them all, and you think they get out as the one team NOT ranked in the d3 hoops top 10. I am sure their is some NJ bias there, but they have to beat the defending national champions, and then play either the host team, or Brandeis the #5 team in the country, who did not have a single loss to a non-tournament team.
I agree - I don't see Stockton winning the backetall tournament.
As for everyone else, hmm lets see
At Ursinus, they have to defeat a conference foe again, which is always tough, but I will give them the advantage given that they are playing at home. Rochester will be playing cinderella Coast Guard which I love as a fun story this season, and with a local naval base they may get some good support, however, I am not sure they can match up with Rochester. HOWEVER, if the game is close and it comes down to free throws....well lets just say the coast guard will sink UR. Assuming a Rochester/Ursinus matchup....i really am not informed enough about Ursinus, but I want to assume a bit that given their location their win total is a little bit inflated. Perhaps they will get beat just like centre. As much as I did not think we would see Rochester in the Final Four this year, I think that they may have the bracket to do just that, because I do not see either of the other three teams really making it.
Wow as I go through this and see who is left, the Northeast bracket is just crazy stacked I will not make any predictions there, I just hope Brandeis can get through it and get to Salem, not an easy task, but not out of the question.
To me there is no question who comes out of the Hope Bracket, its almost like they have 2 byes in the sweet 16 and elite 8, I know I will catch some flack for this, but I mean its Midnight for Ohio Wesleyan, and assuming Wheaton beats the west coast free ride to the sweet 16 in Whitworth, Hope will handle Wheaton (the last team in) easily on their home floor in front of a packed house.
Finally, Wash U's bracket, that is a tough place to play and win, only one team did it this year (Brandeis) snapping a 28 game home win streak for the Bears. This is a tough bracket, but still nothing like the northeast. BV is a tough team, but they are coming off a tough 1 point victory, but then again the bears could be a bit run down by 2 big big games this past weekend. My feeling though is each team recovers just fine over the week, and Wash U with the tournament experience, and the experience defeating wooster and augustana, will take the win. To be honest the other half of this bracket I dont really know/care about. St. Mary's beat Ben Strong and Guilford and then beat a widener team that is just a shadow of its former self a decade ago. And I know nothing about Millsaps. I will assume for a minute that they defeat widener fairly easily, and will play wash u in the elite 8. If Wash U has a close game vs BV its a toss up, but if they win big and come back well rested, well then the Bears are headed back to Salem....Wow after losing Sean Wallis, I did not think I would be saying WASH U and Salem in the same sentence, almost more surprising than Rochester.
So I have two UAA squads in the Final Four, and if Brandeis can get through the toughest bracket left, that would make 3 and boy do I hope it will be 3. And if that is the case, I may need to cancel my plane ticket to south beach (also never thought I would say that).
Yes I think Stockton can survive and here is why; I was at both games last weekend and they played a good all around game against Rhode Island. they shot well, passed he ball extremely well, and played good defense. Don't let the score fool you, they were up by 20 points for several minutes in the 2nd half of that game. I think if they continue to play this way they have a good shot at surviving.
Keep in mind that I have not seen the other teams. I have no idea how tough the competition is in those either conferences. And yes there is a little NJ bias here, no different from any of the other DIII fans across the country
Hey there were some that thought Nazareth was going to win that bracket and advance and they didn't even get past the first game.
I'd be curious to get some feedback from anyone who has seen any of these other teams play this season.
1. I don't think anyone seriously thought Nazareth would get out of the bracket....if you mean the Pod, they maybe, but still fairly doubtful.
2. If you have paid even the smallest bit of attention over well this year, last year, any year, you would know who the NESCAC and UAA are, and perhaps even the SUNYAC.
Amherst is the defending national champion, and the NESCAC is one of 2 conference to get 4 teams into this years tournament, the other is ... you guessed in the UAA which actually has three of those teams remaining one of which is Brandeis. Plattsburgh had only 2 losses this season, none of which were "in region" going undefeated in their conference, the first time anyone has done so in I think I remember seeing like 15 years. Then they won their conference tournament and were the Auto-Bid.
3. How they got to where they are.
Amherst - well they got a bye, and then the NCAA was nice enough to throw John Jay at them, and Amherst was nice enough to let them leave town with atleast their clothing.
Brandeis - played near by Lasell College in the first round and defeated them by 21, then played NESCAC runner-up Bowdoin, again at home winning by 15, although Bowdoin did go on a 16-2 run at the start of the first half, but Brandeis answered back.
Plattsburgh - Another team with a bye, and another host. They had a tough win against King's in overtime, exposing perhaps a little bit of their weaknesses, although not having watched the game or even read the box score yet, I am not entirely sure what those are, my guess though is that Brandeis' players and coaches do, and that Plattsburgh coaches and players will be trying to correct them.
Richard Stockton - another host, had an easy first rounder, and then defeated a good RIC team, a team that beat Holy Cross earlier this season and beat UMD twice (at UMD regular season, and then the LEC final).
4. Interesting things in this bracket, 3 teams are ranked in the top 10 in D3 hoops latest poll, each with one other team between them, that is no longer in the tournament, Amherst (3), centre defeated, Brandeis (5), Augustana defeated, Plattsburgh State (7).
Also Brandeis was the only d3 team to beat Amherst during the regular season, and defeated Bowdoin the only other d3 team to defeat Amherst at anytime this year (conference semi). Amherst and Plattsburgh's womens XC teams finished first and second respectively at this years national championships at ST. Olaf. At the time that is all the fun facts I know but perhaps more will come out later.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 11:39:39 AM
As for everyone else, hmm lets see
At Ursinus, they have to defeat a conference foe again, which is always tough, but I will give them the advantage given that they are playing at home. Rochester will be playing cinderella Coast Guard which I love as a fun story this season, and with a local naval base they may get some good support, however, I am not sure they can match up with Rochester. HOWEVER, if the game is close and it comes down to free throws....well lets just say the coast guard will sink UR. Assuming a Rochester/Ursinus matchup....i really am not informed enough about Ursinus, but I want to assume a bit that given their location their win total is a little bit inflated. Perhaps they will get beat just like centre. As much as I did not think we would see Rochester in the Final Four this year, I think that they may have the bracket to do just that, because I do not see either of the other three teams really making it.
Wow as I go through this and see who is left, the Northeast bracket is just crazy stacked I will not make any predictions there, I just hope Brandeis can get through it and get to Salem, not an easy task, but not out of the question.
To me there is no question who comes out of the Hope Bracket, its almost like they have 2 byes in the sweet 16 and elite 8, I know I will catch some flack for this, but I mean its Midnight for Ohio Wesleyan, and assuming Wheaton beats the west coast free ride to the sweet 16 in Whitworth, Hope will handle Wheaton (the last team in) easily on their home floor in front of a packed house.
Finally, Wash U's bracket, that is a tough place to play and win, only one team did it this year (Brandeis) snapping a 28 game home win streak for the Bears. This is a tough bracket, but still nothing like the northeast. BV is a tough team, but they are coming off a tough 1 point victory, but then again the bears could be a bit run down by 2 big big games this past weekend. My feeling though is each team recovers just fine over the week, and Wash U with the tournament experience, and the experience defeating wooster and augustana, will take the win. To be honest the other half of this bracket I dont really know/care about. St. Mary's beat Ben Strong and Guilford and then beat a widener team that is just a shadow of its former self a decade ago. And I know nothing about Millsaps. I will assume for a minute that they defeat widener fairly easily, and will play wash u in the elite 8. If Wash U has a close game vs BV its a toss up, but if they win big and come back well rested, well then the Bears are headed back to Salem....Wow after losing Sean Wallis, I did not think I would be saying WASH U and Salem in the same sentence, almost more surprising than Rochester.
So I have two UAA squads in the Final Four, and if Brandeis can get through the toughest bracket left, that would make 3 and boy do I hope it will be 3. And if that is the case, I may need to cancel my plane ticket to south beach (also never thought I would say that).
I believe St Thomas was 19-0 or something on their home court before BV came to town.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 11:39:39 AM
As for everyone else, hmm lets see
At Ursinus, they have to defeat a conference foe again, which is always tough, but I will give them the advantage given that they are playing at home. Rochester will be playing cinderella Coast Guard which I love as a fun story this season, and with a local naval base they may get some good support, however, I am not sure they can match up with Rochester. HOWEVER, if the game is close and it comes down to free throws....well lets just say the coast guard will sink UR. Assuming a Rochester/Ursinus matchup....i really am not informed enough about Ursinus, but I want to assume a bit that given their location their win total is a little bit inflated. Perhaps they will get beat just like centre. As much as I did not think we would see Rochester in the Final Four this year, I think that they may have the bracket to do just that, because I do not see either of the other three teams really making it.
Just one thought about that. I don't remember any games that were close at the end where UR's foul shooting cost them the game. IF UR has the lead and the other team is forced to foul, Neer runs the offense/defense substitutions through the scorers table so fast it creates a breeze. And IF Oniyiruka is on the floor when UR has the ball, he SPRINTS to the farthest end of the court. If CG wants to foul Dominiak, Juron, Kaplan, Runco, Chmely...more power to them. That being said, foul shooting DURING the game may make it a close contest at the end. But even that is a double edged sword. If your big is hacking JO or Ndibizu, he isn't going to be around too long. And you really don't want to see what an unfettered JO and Uche can do to an opponant.
I believe Stockton can shoot it out with anyone and they can play pretty good defense. Besides they have the secret weapon of Coach Gerry Matthews White Shoes and Belt. They definitely will not be outcoached, they might not make it out but they have a very good shot. The only real hiccup on the season was a loss to RU Camden. Camden shot the lights out in that game, 58% overall and 63% 12 for 19 from 3 point range.
I do believe they can win the bracket, as it is said it is the toughest bracket and they are a very good team and are not an easy win. I also seem to recall many of the posters stating that this is a wide open field and I believe that teams also receiving votes in the last top 25 poll are probably just as good as many of the teams that made the top 25.
Here is the link to the Stockton (http://intraweb.stockton.edu/eyos/page.cfm?siteID=47&pageID=68) website. They are a very experienced team and have two of the best players in the NJAC in Marion Lancioni and Jon Greene.
We are getting some interesting votes. Don't forget to cast your vote before Friday. The St Louis Region is the closest in voting right now Who will advance? Will we have any more upsets?
Cast your vote at http://www.tobannounced.com
Results so far;
Who wins the Platsburgh Region?
Votes
Amherst (24-3) 6 42.9%
Stockton (22-6) 0 0.0%
Brandeis (22-5) 5 35.7%
Plattsburgh State (27-2) 3 21.4%
Who wins the Holland Michigan Region?
Votes
Hope (25-3) 10 76.9%
Ohio Wesleyan (22-7) 2 15.4%
Wheaten Ill (21-7) 0 0.0%
Whitworth (21-6) 1 7.7%
Who wins the St Louis Region?
Votes
Washington U. (21-6) 4 33.3%
Buena Vista (23-6) 3 25.0%
St Mary's MD (19-11) 2 16.7%
Millsaps (27-3) 3 25.0%
Who wins the Collegeville PA Region?
Votes
Ursinus (27-2) 4 33.3%
Gettysburg (24-4) 0 0.0%
Rochester (22-5) 6 50.0%
Coast Guard (23-6) 2 16.7%
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 11:39:39 AM
As for everyone else, hmm lets see
To me there is no question who comes out of the Hope Bracket, its almost like they have 2 byes in the sweet 16 and elite 8, I know I will catch some flack for this, but I mean its Midnight for Ohio Wesleyan, and assuming Wheaton beats the west coast free ride to the sweet 16 in Whitworth, Hope will handle Wheaton (the last team in) easily on their home floor in front of a packed house.
Whitworth might have had an [the] easy trip to the sweet 16, but they are still a good team. I think they will definately give Wheaton a run for their money out there in the great lakes.
What do people on this board think of Whitworth...they turned in a pretty good preformance against Oxy.
One very positive thing I can say for whitworth is that the travel will not affect them one bit, if I remember correctly lat year they traveled all over the country logging some solid frequent flier miles that would make UAA teams jealous.
Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on March 11, 2008, 12:35:00 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 11:39:39 AM
As for everyone else, hmm lets see
At Ursinus, they have to defeat a conference foe again, which is always tough, but I will give them the advantage given that they are playing at home. Rochester will be playing cinderella Coast Guard which I love as a fun story this season, and with a local naval base they may get some good support, however, I am not sure they can match up with Rochester. HOWEVER, if the game is close and it comes down to free throws....well lets just say the coast guard will sink UR. Assuming a Rochester/Ursinus matchup....i really am not informed enough about Ursinus, but I want to assume a bit that given their location their win total is a little bit inflated. Perhaps they will get beat just like centre. As much as I did not think we would see Rochester in the Final Four this year, I think that they may have the bracket to do just that, because I do not see either of the other three teams really making it.
Just one thought about that. I don't remember any games that were close at the end where UR's foul shooting cost them the game. IF UR has the lead and the other team is forced to foul, Neer runs the offense/defense substitutions through the scorers table so fast it creates a breeze. And IF Oniyiruka is on the floor when UR has the ball, he SPRINTS to the farthest end of the court. If CG wants to foul Dominiak, Juron, Kaplan, Runco, Chmely...more power to them. That being said, foul shooting DURING the game may make it a close contest at the end. But even that is a double edged sword. If your big is hacking JO or Ndibizu, he isn't going to be around too long. And you really don't want to see what an unfettered JO and Uche can do to an opponant.
The NYU game comes to mind, as well as the game at Wash U., though not as much. If I recall correctly, they had chances against NYU to win in regulation if they made free throws and we both know how that turned out.
With that said, I think the argument about foul shooting for UR is much ado about nothing. Jon and Uche have had a game or two where they really were on from the line, so who's to say it can't happen again?
It'll be interesting to see how CGA can match up underneath with UR. Even if the four cancel each other out, UR still has Milbrand, who has really picked it up as of late, and the freshman Roberson, who has looked nothing like a freshman in recent weeks.
As far as the Plattsburgh region, Brandeis can get on a run and beat them all, but I think Amherst will come out of it.
I believe that you could make the argument that UR lost all 5 games because of foul shooting. Well, less so the Chicago game maybe, but the bigs making foul shots during the body of the game would have certainly prevented OT losses to Emory and NYU and likely the 'deis and WashU losses as well. If you are saying the bigs missed foul shots at the end of games against WashU and NYU, I'll take your word for it as I wasn't there.
And I agree about Milbrand and Roberson. There is going to be a LOT of responsibility placed on Roberson next year. Though they are going after some LARGE kids for next years freshman class.
Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on March 11, 2008, 02:19:43 PM
I believe that you could make the argument that UR lost all 5 games because of foul shooting. Well, less so the Chicago game maybe, but the bigs making foul shots during the body of the game would have certainly prevented OT losses to Emory and NYU and likely the 'deis and WashU losses as well. If you are saying the bigs missed foul shots at the end of games against WashU and NYU, I'll take your word for it as I wasn't there.
And I agree about Milbrand and Roberson. There is going to be a LOT of responsibility placed on Roberson next year. Though they are going after some LARGE kids for next years freshman class.
I wasn't at either game, but I did listen to them. NYU is the only one that really stands out to me that I can remember.
And I've heard from some decent sources that the recruiting class is pretty stacked. If we can get a few more like Lebanowski, we'll be in good shape for quite a while.
I agree with the fact that Brandeis could make a run. I have talked with some people at school, and when filling out the bracket for D3 I got to feel what it was like to fill out a d1 bracket and go to UNC or a school of that caliber, because it is difficult to make your team lose when they have a chance to win it all/are ranked so high in the country. At number 5 in the country, Brandeis is capable of beating any team in the tournament, and they have shown that at 3-2 against teams in the sweet sixteen. But at the same time, they could also lose to any of the teams if they don't bring it. I would love to see a Brandeis/Amherst rematch on a neutral floor and I am sure most people (except those from Plattsburgh or Richard Stockton) would too. And those two teams are gonna do their best to make sure it does not happen. If it does tho, it will be fun to watch as I think the combo of Graves-Fulgham and Roberson shut down Andrew Olsen (bad ankle or not) better then any one else in the country so far this year.
Hah, yes, that is true.
Okay quick question, NCAA is always big on money --> taking it in via gate receipts and giving it out via travel expenses, so regional rankings aside, explain to me why Plattsburgh a team that is both the highest north and furthest west of the four teams left in that bracket, and has a gym that max holds 1000 according to this site, or 1400 according to its media guide is hosting the sectional.
Why not move to neutral sites with larger capacities starting in the sectionals? For this region I would suggest the springfield stadium where D2 is hosting their elite 8 and beyond this year.
I'd vote if I could get the webpage to work. It comes in all garbled and when I try to click on a team, the bubble doesn't fill up.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 07:13:37 PM
Okay quick question, NCAA is always big on money --> taking it in via gate receipts and giving it out via travel expenses, so regional rankings aside, explain to me why Plattsburgh a team that is both the highest north and furthest west of the four teams left in that bracket, and has a gym that max holds 1000 according to this site, or 1400 according to its media guide is hosting the sectional.
Why not move to neutral sites with larger capacities starting in the sectionals? For this region I would suggest the springfield stadium where D2 is hosting their elite 8 and beyond this year.
They don't make any money on the d3 tournament. That's not a huge factor in the decision. They give hosting duties to the highest ranked team in the section, if they qualify and if they applied to host. It's pretty simple.
Plattsburgh had a great season and earned the right to host.
not making money on the tournament, if true, shows some ineptness on the NCAA's parts, figure for a sectional, you could get 5000 fans at an average of 5 bucks per person, per day, thats 50,000 across 4 sectionals thats 200k, I know we are not talking millions from TV revenue etc, but definitely more then enough for profit after taking out travel costs for the 12 non-hosting teams (on average at least 8 are taking busses).
I am just saying something to think about, and Plattsburgh had a great season, going undefeated in region is awesome, but they did not even play some of the tougher teams in their region. They lost to OXY which squeeked into the tournament and lost to Gordon which was not even ranked in the NE region. Honestly I think their most quality win was against Middlebury, and that does not say a whole heck of a lot.
Take Karma from me if you must, but I am just stating my opinion and telling it like it is.
agreed, I cannot get the website to work properly either, perhaps it is because I am using safari?
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 07:56:58 PM
not making money on the tournament, if true, shows some ineptness on the NCAA's parts, figure for a sectional, you could get 5000 fans at an average of 5 bucks per person, per day, thats 50,000 across 4 sectionals thats 200k, I know we are not talking millions from TV revenue etc, but definitely more then enough for profit after taking out travel costs for the 12 non-hosting teams (on average at least 8 are taking busses).
I am just saying something to think about, and Plattsburgh had a great season, going undefeated in region is awesome, but they did not even play some of the tougher teams in their region. They lost to OXY which squeeked into the tournament and lost to Gordon which was not even ranked in the NE region. Honestly I think their most quality win was against Middlebury, and that does not say a whole heck of a lot.
Take Karma from me if you must, but I am just stating my opinion and telling it like it is.
1. There are VERY few locations where you could get 5,000 - many sectionals do not even sell out. The only one which
might show a profit is Hope (huge arena, guaranteed sellout); but even there they will probably only recoup Whitworth's airfare.
2. In addition to transportation, there is lodging, paying the refs, etc. It is a more costly enterprise than you are realizing. (And busses are not exactly cheap - you been to a gas station lately? ;D And then get, what, 4 miles to the gallon? And pay the bus driver?)
3. Like em or hate em, the d3 rules are what they are. Plattsburgh
earned hosting fair and square, whether Amherst fans like it or not.
There are many instances where Sectionals do not sell out, neutral site sectionals would only be worse.
Last year for example
Hope/Carroll played the first game of a split session in front of 836, while the Stevens Point/Washington game was a sellout of about 2800. What would the attendance have been if all 4 schools were asked to go to Chicago or Des Moines?
The Hope/Washington sectional final game in Stevens Point, WI drew 809.
We'd love to believe that D3 could draw 5,000 fans to a neutral site, but it just can't without a host school. There will be 3,500 at Hope this weekend but only a couple hundred will come from Wheaton and Whitworth, maybe 200 or 300 from Ohio Wesleyan. Thats just the reality of D3.
I don't even think the Final Four has completely sold out every year its been in Salem.
The D3 leader in attendance (Hope) will not average over 3,000 per game this season, even with a beautifull arena like facility. 5,000 at a neutral site, or even more than 1,500 I believe is unrealistic.
Ilive4this is not an amherst fan
Quote from: eazye1334 on March 11, 2008, 02:24:47 PM
Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on March 11, 2008, 02:19:43 PM
I believe that you could make the argument that UR lost all 5 games because of foul shooting. Well, less so the Chicago game maybe, but the bigs making foul shots during the body of the game would have certainly prevented OT losses to Emory and NYU and likely the 'deis and WashU losses as well. If you are saying the bigs missed foul shots at the end of games against WashU and NYU, I'll take your word for it as I wasn't there.
And I agree about Milbrand and Roberson. There is going to be a LOT of responsibility placed on Roberson next year. Though they are going after some LARGE kids for next years freshman class.
I wasn't at either game, but I did listen to them. NYU is the only one that really stands out to me that I can remember.
And I've heard from some decent sources that the recruiting class is pretty stacked. If we can get a few more like Lebanowski, we'll be in good shape for quite a while.
As good as Mike is, what they need are bigs. Of the 7 freshman this year, 5 are guards, 1 is a 3/4 and then there is Roberson. The guards are a nice mix and with Kaplan, Runco, Chely, and Cubit all coming back and with the experience Mike and Murphy are getting during this run, they should be pretty well set at the guard spot. I know they have brought in guys from Fla, Olean, Syracuse, NC and Kentucky and they're all big. There was 1 guard I believe, but they are pushing for bigs. SHould know pretty soon I guess.
Very true not an Amherst fan, although I do respect them as a team, but they are certainly not MY team. I agree given the system used Plattsburgh earned the right to host, I am simply saying would they still win by the numbers had they played Rochester twice?
Also I am proposing a bigger venue, yes, and I disagree I actually think in this situation if geography is close enough they would sell out bigger arenas. I can say in the case of brandeis, if the game were in western mass (i.e under 2 hours) they would send about 200 people or more, if it were at home, they would have 1500+. So if you assume a game in western mass gets 1500+ from Amherst, and then around 200 from the other 3 teams, plus locals etc. Remember western mass is bball country, you could see the numbers I talked about.
In fact Plattsburgh sold out its tickets in 3 hours, something tells me if a number of tickets were not reserved for brandeis and the gym was larger they still would have sold out. Now imagine having this in a city where amherst and brandeis alums are abundant, and you have even more people to come out for the games.
I am not saying sectionals should be at MSG and the Staples center, but perhaps venues larger than 1000-1500.
Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on March 11, 2008, 09:18:32 PM
Quote from: eazye1334 on March 11, 2008, 02:24:47 PM
Quote from: Jacketfan2011 on March 11, 2008, 02:19:43 PM
I believe that you could make the argument that UR lost all 5 games because of foul shooting. Well, less so the Chicago game maybe, but the bigs making foul shots during the body of the game would have certainly prevented OT losses to Emory and NYU and likely the 'deis and WashU losses as well. If you are saying the bigs missed foul shots at the end of games against WashU and NYU, I'll take your word for it as I wasn't there.
And I agree about Milbrand and Roberson. There is going to be a LOT of responsibility placed on Roberson next year. Though they are going after some LARGE kids for next years freshman class.
I wasn't at either game, but I did listen to them. NYU is the only one that really stands out to me that I can remember.
And I've heard from some decent sources that the recruiting class is pretty stacked. If we can get a few more like Lebanowski, we'll be in good shape for quite a while.
As good as Mike is, what they need are bigs. Of the 7 freshman this year, 5 are guards, 1 is a 3/4 and then there is Roberson. The guards are a nice mix and with Kaplan, Runco, Chely, and Cubit all coming back and with the experience Mike and Murphy are getting during this run, they should be pretty well set at the guard spot. I know they have brought in guys from Fla, Olean, Syracuse, NC and Kentucky and they're all big. There was 1 guard I believe, but they are pushing for bigs. SHould know pretty soon I guess.
I didn't mean guards, I just meant athletic ability, skill, and intelligence-wise.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 07:56:58 PM
not making money on the tournament, if true, shows some ineptness on the NCAA's parts, figure for a sectional, you could get 5000 fans at an average of 5 bucks per person, per day, thats 50,000 across 4 sectionals thats 200k,
Thats not what you said earlier, which is what I was responding to.
I will agree the NCAA misses alot of opportunities to offset the expense of the D3 tournament by where they place Sectionals in some years.
Then I agree 100%.
As said previously, there are few teams that would sell out their gyms. Point is one of them. At Point's sectional last year, there was a line forming Monday night (ok, it was a guy sleeping in his truck) to get tickets Tuesday morning for the weekend's games. If Point played their sectional at nearby Oshkosh, they'd sell out Kolf's 5,000 seater, probably. But that's not always going to happen. Whitewater hosted this year's regional and couldn't sell out Kachel gym, this with Lawrence only being 3 hours away. This website says Kachel holds 2300. You put the game at a neutral site and there is no way you'll get the same amount of fans to the games. At least with a host team, you get one sellout or close to it...and if they advance, then double that.
Quote from: fpc85 on March 11, 2008, 09:15:26 PM
Ilive4this is not an amherst fan
Since ILive4This was a Posters' Poll voter, I knew that. That's also why I singled out Amherst supporters (who I think have been the MOST obnoxious about the Plattsburgh locale), so as NOT to single out IL4T (I may twit my voters from time to time, but I protect them from 'outsiders' ;)).
I'm ambivalent on the hosting minimums. Raising the minimum would rule out a lot of teams that have earned hosting privileges, but allowing less than a 1800-2000 capacity rules out a lot of fans. On balance, the current rules are probably better than the alternative.
ILive4This, only the Hope sectional (huge arena, guaranteed sell-out) has any chance of EVEN breaking even (even then, they will probably only recoup Whitworth's airfare). Even tournament games lose money - we are at the mercy of the d1 TV contract revenues. Bigger venues (in the few locations they DO sell out) would be good for the fans, but d3 is for the athletes, not the fans. Plattsburgh
earned their hosting.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 09:23:40 PM
Very true not an Amherst fan, although I do respect them as a team, but they are certainly not MY team. I agree given the system used Plattsburgh earned the right to host, I am simply saying would they still win by the numbers had they played Rochester twice?
Also I am proposing a bigger venue, yes, and I disagree I actually think in this situation if geography is close enough they would sell out bigger arenas. I can say in the case of Brandeis, if the game were in western mass (i.e under 2 hours) they would send about 200 people or more, if it were at home, they would have 1500+. So if you assume a game in western mass gets 1500+ from Amherst, and then around 200 from the other 3 teams, plus locals etc. Remember western mass is bball country, you could see the numbers I talked about.
In fact Plattsburgh sold out its tickets in 3 hours, something tells me if a number of tickets were not reserved for brandeis and the gym was larger they still would have sold out. Now imagine having this in a city where amherst and brandeis alums are abundant, and you have even more people to come out for the games.
I am not saying sectionals should be at MSG and the Staples center, but perhaps venues larger than 1000-1500.
Respectfully, travel to those places is impossible. You cannot get a plane ticket to any remote D3 venue on 7 days notice for less than $400.
Busing costs in this part of the country are going for $4/mile. Up to 500 miles round trip 1000 miles costs $4000.
You just gobbled up 570 tickets at $7.00 each.
Travel from George Fox for (is it a traveling party of 20 per team?) with best bulk price anywhere on 7 days notice $300?
$6000 expense.
In D-3 almost no one flies, except for the one regular season tourney that some schools take.
The home court advantage to the "travel-favored" venues would be oppressive. My theory is that the centrally located venues have gained an incremental advantage over the years, places like Wooster, WashU, some of CCIW venues, etc.
If we cannot make money on these things, then let's go for the experience. Plattsburgh went thru region undefeated.
What else are you going to ask a team to do? We build interest in D3 by the excitement that surrounds the "circus coming to town".
I know that in Texas we are ecstatic to have Gordon Mann and David Collinge and a few others coming, just for the game! I think than builds a stronger D3 experience that trying to get a sellout here and there.
And five years from now, most of us will have streaming video. The ASC added this year. Who else did? That may cut down on the travel, but we get to be D3 junkies and video-stream all four sectionals at once in the sports bar known as our computer room! ;)
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 09:23:40 PM
I am simply saying would they still win by the numbers had they played Rochester twice?
This is not a smart argument to get into when defending a NESCAC team's right to host. Plattsburgh might have only played Rochester once, but they played every team in their conference twice.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 11, 2008, 10:08:31 PM
We build interest in D3 by the excitement that surrounds the "circus coming to town".
Where is Grinnell playing? lol... ;D :D ;) :P
"...This is not a smart argument to get into when defending a NESCAC team's right to host. Plattsburgh might have only played Rochester once, but they played every team in their conference twice...."
The played rochester last year in the 1st round at St John Fisher, not this year.
And they only played Cortland, Oneonta, Potsdam, SUNYIT and New Paltz twice during the regular season.
And played Fredonia, Oswego and Geneseo twice each. Once in the regular season and once in the SUNYAC tourney.
Yes I know they did not play Rochester AT ALL, I am not saying a NESCAC team should host, I am just saying it seems contradictory in many ways to have Plattsburgh host, however their regional record is deserving. What I was saying is what would happen if they played more top teams in their region, such as Rochester. Brandeis another team in the pob played Rochester - twice and split home and home. I brought in a number of points into my one main point, sorry for the confusion. Amherst played top teams in its region, Brandeis did the same, (and top teams from other regions which is the nature of their conference, but since it counts against them, I will also make it count for them here). Plattsburgh I do not think did the same. That being said I will be there at Memorial on friday night, and am excited to see a good game. I am hoping to see the judges team we have seen so far this tournament, and if I can really get my way, the Plattsburgh team that lost to Gordon earlier this season (perhaps wishful thinking).
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 07:57:45 PM
agreed, I cannot get the website to work properly either, perhaps it is because I am using safari?
Similarly on Firefox.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 11, 2008, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on March 11, 2008, 07:57:45 PM
agreed, I cannot get the website to work properly either, perhaps it is because I am using safari?
Similarly on Firefox.
Try using Internet Explorer I just found out there is a problem with some of the other internet browsers. If you cant switch over to IE send me your picks and will add them to the polls. Sorry for the inconvenince..
Pat,
Will any of the guys from D3Hoops be at the Plattsburgh sectional?
I did learn one thing this morning about the NCAA and it's cost controls that seems to be pretty smart to me. This morning the Whitworth men are flying on a charter plane to Holland for their sectional. Upon arrival, the plane will be refueled, etc., and the Hope womens team will board and be flown to Texas - not sure of the closest airport to Brownwood.
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:38:29 AM
I did learn one thing this morning about the NCAA and it's cost controls that seems to be pretty smart to me. This morning the Whitworth men are flying on a charter plane to Holland for their sectional. Upon arrival, the plane will be refueled, etc., and the Hope womens team will board and be flown to Texas - not sure of the closest airport to Brownwood.
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
Closest airport to Brownwood is.... Brownwood. :)
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:38:29 AM
I did learn one thing this morning about the NCAA and it's cost controls that seems to be pretty smart to me. This morning the Whitworth men are flying on a charter plane to Holland for their sectional. Upon arrival, the plane will be refueled, etc., and the Hope womens team will board and be flown to Texas - not sure of the closest airport to Brownwood.
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
The NCAA travel office does a really nice job and gets very creative with flights for championships. One year, the track championships required a flight from Wisconsin, so the WIAC was able to get the NCAA to approve a chartered plane for the entire conference's athletes and coaches.
You may have already done this, but in case you haven't, I encourage you all to register to win the Salem prize package.
http://www.d3hoops.com/salemgiveaway/
• Hotel accommodations for Thursday, Friday and Saturday in one of the Roanoke Valley's fine hotels, convenient to Roanoke Regional Airport and Valley View Mall, the largest shopping destination in Southwest Virginia.
• Two tickets to the Friday and Saturday sessions at the Salem Civic Center.
• Two tickets to the Thursday evening team banquet, including talks by all four coaches, a player from each team, the introduction of the starting lineup and the ever-popular highlight video.
• Two VIP hospitality passes, giving you sideline access before the game and access to the hospitality tent.
• $400 toward your travel cost to get you to and around the Roanoke Valley.
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:38:29 AM
I did learn one thing this morning about the NCAA and it's cost controls that seems to be pretty smart to me. This morning the Whitworth men are flying on a charter plane to Holland for their sectional. Upon arrival, the plane will be refueled, etc., and the Hope womens team will board and be flown to Texas - not sure of the closest airport to Brownwood.
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
Actually, my Pirates have to dress up in FedEx uniforms and ride in the cargo hold of a prop plane with 18 stops from here to Holland. ;D
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2008, 03:03:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:38:29 AM
I did learn one thing this morning about the NCAA and it's cost controls that seems to be pretty smart to me. This morning the Whitworth men are flying on a charter plane to Holland for their sectional. Upon arrival, the plane will be refueled, etc., and the Hope womens team will board and be flown to Texas - not sure of the closest airport to Brownwood.
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
Actually, my Pirates have to dress up in FedEx uniforms and ride in the cargo hold of a prop plane with 18 stops from here to Holland. ;D
Just one stop. Watertown, S.D.
How does he know this?....................... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BYA473
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 03:24:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2008, 03:03:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:38:29 AM
I did learn one thing this morning about the NCAA and it's cost controls that seems to be pretty smart to me. This morning the Whitworth men are flying on a charter plane to Holland for their sectional. Upon arrival, the plane will be refueled, etc., and the Hope womens team will board and be flown to Texas - not sure of the closest airport to Brownwood.
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
Actually, my Pirates have to dress up in FedEx uniforms and ride in the cargo hold of a prop plane with 18 stops from here to Holland. ;D
Just one stop. Watertown, S.D.
How does he know this?....................... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BYA473
At least it's a scenic place for a stop-over. ;D
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2008, 03:24:47 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 12, 2008, 03:03:04 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 09:38:29 AM
I did learn one thing this morning about the NCAA and it's cost controls that seems to be pretty smart to me. This morning the Whitworth men are flying on a charter plane to Holland for their sectional. Upon arrival, the plane will be refueled, etc., and the Hope womens team will board and be flown to Texas - not sure of the closest airport to Brownwood.
Sounds like a pretty good plan to me.
Actually, my Pirates have to dress up in FedEx uniforms and ride in the cargo hold of a prop plane with 18 stops from here to Holland. ;D
Just one stop. Watertown, S.D.
How does he know this?....................... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BYA473
Your wealth of information is amazing - or maybe I should say - you've got way too much time on your hands
sac you have way to much time on your hands we need friday for some basketball talk
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 12, 2008, 03:28:32 PM
Your wealth of information is amazing - or maybe I should say - you've got way too much time on your hands
Living near an airport, you get curious about the nightly 3 flights at 10:10, 10:25 and 10:45. So I went searching, turns out they are UPS planes on their way to Philadelphia, Louisville and Rockford, Il.
...and it took me 3 minutes to find Whitworth's flight.
In the past 10 years no team lower ranked than #14 has won the championship.
7-8 RANKED REMAINING TEAMS ARE #14 OR BETTER
# 1 Hope (25-3)
# 3 Amherst (24-3)
# 5 Brandeis (22-5)
# 7 Plattsburgh St. (27-2)
# 11 Washington U. (21-6)
# 13 Rochester (22-5)
# 14 Millsaps (27-3)
THEN THEIR IS URSINAS
# 16 Ursinus (27-2)
THEN THERE ARE 8 UNRANKED
WHITWORTH PLAYS WHEATON
WHEATON PLAYS WHITWORTH
ST MARY'S VS #14 MILLSAPS
COAST GUARD VS #13 ROCHESTER
RICHARD STOCKTON VS #3 AMHERST
OHIO WESLEYAN @ HOMECOURT OF #1 HOPE
BUENA VISTA @ HOMECOURT OF #11 WASHINGTON U.
GETTYSBURG PLAYS #16 URSINAS
SO WILL TRADITION HOLD UP? AFTER FRIDAY 7 OF 8 REMAINING COULD BE RANKED TEAMS, WILL IT HAPPEN?
WHO OF THE UNRANKED (NON WHEATON/WHITWORTH TEAMS) HAS THE BEST CHANCE OF AN UPSET?
DOES URSINAS HAVE WHAT IT TAKES TO STRETCH THE TRADITION TO #16TH RANK OR BETTER?
UrsinAs may struggle but I could see UrsinUs getting through its conference foe to face a tough Rochester squad that was once ranked first in the country this season.
One might say for pointing out this error that I am an UrsinASS
Well played
Quote from: ILive4This on March 12, 2008, 09:32:41 PM
UrsinAs may struggle but I could see UrsinUs getting through its conference foe to face a tough Rochester squad that was once ranked first in the country this season.
One might say for pointing out this error that I am an UrsinASS
But at least you are not a Ursin
Ius, like another well-respected poster insists on typing it. If they win, maybe everyone will learn how to spell it! :D
Of course, if Buena Vista wins, we'll all have to decide whether Iowan or Spanish is the way to go on pronunciation! ;)
Or we can go with my version of BV... just Vista, baby!
So I know how Hoosiers say Versailles and Dubois, and how Kansans say El Dorado, but how do Iowans say Buena Vista?
Quote from: smedindy on March 12, 2008, 11:14:16 PM
So I know how Hoosiers say Versailles and Dubois, and how Kansans say El Dorado, but how do Iowans say Buena Vista?
B-you-na (as far as I know, they pronounce Vusta like everyone else!).
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2008, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on March 12, 2008, 09:32:41 PM
UrsinAs may struggle but I could see UrsinUs getting through its conference foe to face a tough Rochester squad that was once ranked first in the country this season.
One might say for pointing out this error that I am an UrsinASS
But at least you are not a UrsinIus, like another well-respected poster insists on typing it. If they win, maybe everyone will learn how to spell it! :D
Of course, if Buena Vista wins, we'll all have to decide whether Iowan or Spanish is the way to go on pronunciation! ;)
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Unless I'm flattering myself to believe that I'm a well-respected poster. :)
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2008, 12:15:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2008, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on March 12, 2008, 09:32:41 PM
UrsinAs may struggle but I could see UrsinUs getting through its conference foe to face a tough Rochester squad that was once ranked first in the country this season.
One might say for pointing out this error that I am an UrsinASS
But at least you are not a UrsinIus, like another well-respected poster insists on typing it. If they win, maybe everyone will learn how to spell it! :D
Of course, if Buena Vista wins, we'll all have to decide whether Iowan or Spanish is the way to go on pronunciation! ;)
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Unless I'm flattering myself to believe that I'm a well-respected poster. :)
You're well-respected in my book, but I was referring to one of my PP voters. ;)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 13, 2008, 01:16:47 AM
Quote from: HopeConvert on March 13, 2008, 12:15:14 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 12, 2008, 10:23:19 PM
Quote from: ILive4This on March 12, 2008, 09:32:41 PM
UrsinAs may struggle but I could see UrsinUs getting through its conference foe to face a tough Rochester squad that was once ranked first in the country this season.
One might say for pointing out this error that I am an UrsinASS
But at least you are not a UrsinIus, like another well-respected poster insists on typing it. If they win, maybe everyone will learn how to spell it! :D
Of course, if Buena Vista wins, we'll all have to decide whether Iowan or Spanish is the way to go on pronunciation! ;)
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
Unless I'm flattering myself to believe that I'm a well-respected poster. :)
You're well-respected in my book, but I was referring to one of my PP voters. ;)
I thought that Chuck was referring to notorious Let's Talk MIAA gadfly Wiz, who picked up on Hope Convert's initial typo and made a running joke about "ursinius" being a cuss word. I was waiting for the Hope fans to pitch a fit about Chuck calling Wiz (a Calvin fan who is rivaled only by Kalamazoo alumnus Stinger in terms of being Posting Up's most vehement Hope-hater) "well-respected". :D
Every time I drive on to Ursinus' campus, I repeat this mantra.
"Not my sinus. Not his sinus...URsinus"
Helps me remember how to spell and pronounce it. It's also a good thing I drive alone so someone can't tell me what a dork I am.
Quote from: gordonmann on March 13, 2008, 10:25:47 AM
Every time I drive on to Ursinus' campus, I repeat this mantra.
"Not my sinus. Not his sinus...URsinus"
Helps me remember how to spell and pronounce it. It's also a good thing I drive alone so someone can't tell me what a dork I am.
It's comforting to know that someone else does little things to help remember how to spell words. In 3rd grade, I always mis-spelled the word friend, until a teacher told me to always remember that a true friend would FRI to the END. To this day (almost 40 years later) I still repeat that in my head every time I spell friend.
My older sister taught me to spell "together" by saying, "You can be together, unless you go TO-GET-HER"
I prefer to spell everything with txtn lang, like 2gether, 2moro, also I tend to abrev whenevs poss.
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 10:33:10 AM
It's comforting to know that someone else does little things to help remember how to spell words. In 3rd grade, I always mis-spelled the word friend, until a teacher told me to always remember that a true friend would FRI to the END. To this day (almost 40 years later) I still repeat that in my head every time I spell friend.
See you at the game Fryday.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 10:33:10 AM
It's comforting to know that someone else does little things to help remember how to spell words. In 3rd grade, I always mis-spelled the word friend, until a teacher told me to always remember that a true friend would FRI to the END. To this day (almost 40 years later) I still repeat that in my head every time I spell friend.
See you at the game Fryday.
Yal need ta git Hukt on Foniks.
Okay as fun as this has been, lets get back to some basketball, I hear they are playing some games this weekend, winners get to go to the rodeo fromm Borat
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 10:33:10 AM
It's comforting to know that someone else does little things to help remember how to spell words. In 3rd grade, I always mis-spelled the word friend, until a teacher told me to always remember that a true friend would FRI to the END. To this day (almost 40 years later) I still repeat that in my head every time I spell friend.
See you at the game Fryday.
Hey, if you're going to be there, I'm sure us Hope posters would love to meet you
it would be nice to meet you friday
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 11:57:29 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 10:33:10 AM
It's comforting to know that someone else does little things to help remember how to spell words. In 3rd grade, I always mis-spelled the word friend, until a teacher told me to always remember that a true friend would FRI to the END. To this day (almost 40 years later) I still repeat that in my head every time I spell friend.
See you at the game Fryday.
Hey, if you're going to be there, I'm sure us Hope posters would love to meet you
It would be tough to pick you out of the crowd of the other 3,000 people wearing oragne shirts. :D
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 11:57:29 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 10:33:10 AM
It's comforting to know that someone else does little things to help remember how to spell words. In 3rd grade, I always mis-spelled the word friend, until a teacher told me to always remember that a true friend would FRI to the END. To this day (almost 40 years later) I still repeat that in my head every time I spell friend.
See you at the game Fryday.
Hey, if you're going to be there, I'm sure us Hope posters would love to meet you
It would be tough to pick you out of the crowd of the other 3,000 people wearing oragne shirts. :D
Actually not - since I'm typically the only one in the place who's over 40 and wearing orange shorts :o
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 01:46:04 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 13, 2008, 01:08:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 11:57:29 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 13, 2008, 11:16:02 AM
Quote from: Flying Dutch Fan on March 13, 2008, 10:33:10 AM
It's comforting to know that someone else does little things to help remember how to spell words. In 3rd grade, I always mis-spelled the word friend, until a teacher told me to always remember that a true friend would FRI to the END. To this day (almost 40 years later) I still repeat that in my head every time I spell friend.
See you at the game Fryday.
Hey, if you're going to be there, I'm sure us Hope posters would love to meet you
It would be tough to pick you out of the crowd of the other 3,000 people wearing oragne shirts. :D
Actually not - since I'm typically the only one in the place who's over 40 and wearing orange shorts :o
OH BABY! ENSEEM LENTGH?
Slow day today...I think everyone is gearing up for the games tomorrow ;D
That, and the site was down for a bit.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 13, 2008, 09:24:35 PM
That, and the site was down for a bit.
As far as I can tell, it was down most of the time for many hours - I'd sometimes get on, then lose it again.
Pat, what happened - an NAIA attack? :D
That or Adrian hockey fans. But they took down the whole company, not just our site. :)
Pat, who from your crew will be in upstate new york tomorrow?
We are one day away from the Sweet 16 and here are the polls so far. They all look like runaways except for Collegeville.? Still time to vote
Who wins the Platsburgh Region?
Votes
Amherst (24-3) 17 45.9%
Stockton (22-6) 5 13.5%
Brandeis (22-5) 9 24.3%
Plattsburgh State (27-2) 6 16.2%
Who wins the Holland Michigan Region?
Votes
Hope (25-3) 21 65.6%
Ohio Wesleyan (22-7) 7 21.9%
Wheaten Ill (21-7) 1 3.1%
Whitworth (21-6) 3 9.4%
Who wins the St Louis Region?
Votes
Washington U. (21-6) 18 51.4%
Buena Vista (23-6) 6 17.1%
St Mary's MD (19-11) 3 8.6%
Millsaps (27-3) 8 22.9%
Who wins the Collegeville PA Region
Votes
Ursinus (27-2) 13 34.2%
Gettysburg (24-4) 4 10.5%
Rochester (22-5) 16 42.1%
Coast Guard (23-6) 5 13.2%
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2008, 10:09:08 PM
That or Adrian hockey fans. But they took down the whole company, not just our site. :)
The Adrian hockey fans have a right to be p***ed! Even Mitch Albom weighed in on their behalf. But d3sports.com doesn't recognize hockey - I'll try to get 'em to redirect their anger! :o ;D
IL4T: Frank Rossi and Eric Ren.
Ypsi: Just because Mitch Albom reported something doesn't mean it's true or that it actually happened.
Adrian's SOS wasn't nearly strong enough to merit selection, from everything I've read.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 13, 2008, 10:48:47 PM
IL4T: Frank Rossi and Eric Ren.
Ypsi: Just because Mitch Albom reported something doesn't mean it's true or that it actually happened.
Adrian's SOS wasn't nearly strong enough to merit selection, from everything I've read.
Yeah, I had that feeling about Mitch, but it is some pretty heavy hitting to get some people's blood boiling. I know nothing about d3 hockey to judge their strength of schedule (as a first year, I'd guess it wasn't world class), but 26-3, with a 20-game win streak at the end, will get people feeling they earned a chance - as you well know from dealing with basketball posters! ;D
At least Mitch waited to write the article after things happened this time.
Quote from: sac on March 13, 2008, 11:06:41 PM
At least Mitch waited to write the article after things happened this time.
Et tu, sac? ;D
I really like Mitch Albom as a writer (and
really wish he hadn't written that column! :() - he's gotten so successful as a novelist, I fear he has lost sight of the line between journalism and fiction. I still (mostly) trust him.
Mitch Albom = Brandeis Alum just thought that I would throw that in there.
Pat: if your crew would like some extra insight on the Judges before the game, I would be happy, actually I would be excited to talk with them. To be honest I always wanted to cover games, but being on another team in the same season, made the near impossible.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 13, 2008, 11:26:44 PM
Mitch Albom = Brandeis Alum just thought that I would throw that in there.
We will not hold this against you. :)
On the other thing, they're the guys with the headsets on down at the scorers table that are not WBRS. Can't hurt to try.
Whoa now, hes one of the few good ones we got, I mean when you compare him to Jack Abramoff (who gave only 50 bucks to Deis), Albom is basically infallible
This is interesting, although I would take this with a grain of salt until the sample size breaks 50, since I can not vote with safari or firefox, throw in a Brandeis, hope, wash u and rochester vote for me
It's not a problem with Safari, it works for me
Quote from: ILive4This on March 14, 2008, 01:39:41 AM
This is interesting, although I would take this with a grain of salt until the sample size breaks 50, since I can not vote with safari or firefox, throw in a Brandeis, hope, wash u and rochester vote for me
You got it ILive4This your votes have been placed.. I agree that 50 is a good benchmark.. Sorry for the inconvenience on the browser but apparently there are some inconsistancies with sites created in MS Publisher
I have to tell you that I resepect your knowledge if DIII, you bring a lot of good stuff to the table. I will be at the Plattsburgh region this weekend and I am looking forward to the games, but not the 5 hour drive ..
Enjoy the games this weekend.
Should be some good basketball either way, I am taking a "fan bus" so avoid having to actually burn my own fuel, we leave at 2 this afternoon. So long as the bus driver keeps us moving I might be able to catch some of the first game. I am excited to see how Amherst has transformed since I saw them in December, and also Richard Stockton a school I will admit I had never previously heard of, even though it is reasonably close to my home town.
Being in the UAA i have seen teams from various parts of the country, and therefore many different styles of ball, hopefully RS will bring something new and exciting to the floor for me to see.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 14, 2008, 10:54:29 AM
Should be some good basketball either way, I am taking a "fan bus" so avoid having to actually burn my own fuel, we leave at 2 this afternoon. So long as the bus driver keeps us moving I might be able to catch some of the first game. I am excited to see how Amherst has transformed since I saw them in December, and also Richard Stockton a school I will admit I had never previously heard of, even though it is reasonably close to my home town.
Being in the UAA i have seen teams from various parts of the country, and therefore many different styles of ball, hopefully RS will bring something new and exciting to the floor for me to see.
That the best way to roll to a game!! :)
http://www.d3hoops.com/schedule/mens/2008-03-14
Might be helpful if the site stated on the schedule page what time zone the game times are being listed at.
Just a thought.
I thought they were all local times...and then on the "schedule" page, it's Eastern.
The link for livestats and radio for the Hope games (Only because they are not on the scoreboard.)
http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/mbb/mbbhostncaa.html
Edit: I'm either blind and/or dumb because they are definitely linked on the scoreboard...
If you'd like to listen to the WBRS broadcast of tonight's game between Brandeis and Plattsburgh St, click on over to www.wbrs.org. It took us five hours and ferry to get here, but we're here :)
Quote from: ILive4This on March 14, 2008, 01:36:11 AM
Whoa now, hes one of the few good ones we got, I mean when you compare him to Jack Abramoff (who gave only 50 bucks to Deis), Albom is basically infallible
Also, Thomas Friedman of the NY Times and of course, Christie Hefner of Playboy!
But one of my Brandeis highlights came in spring training this week watching the only Brandeis grad in the majors, Nelson Figueroa (sp?), pitch against the Red Sox. He got the loss, but had some good stuff.
Good luck tonight guys!
Coast Guard wins over Rochester Upset city
Coast Guard 57 - Rochester 48
Now they wait for Ursinus vs Gettysburg winner.
Ohio Wesleyan 63 No. 1 Hope 71
No. 3 Amherst 85 Richard Stockton 77
No. 5 Brandeis 74 No. 7 Plattsburgh State 63
Coast Guard 57 No. 13 Rochester 48
St. Mary's (Md.) 73 No. 14 Millsaps 82
Gettysburg 55 No. 16 Ursinus 79
Wheaton (Ill.) 76 Whitworth 67
Holy Coast Guard! Seven of eight finals are in and only one upset.
I'm not sure if you qualify Wheaton (IL) over Whitworth an upset.
Buena Vista, according to live stats, is up 46-40 with 17 remaining.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 14, 2008, 10:22:09 PM
Ohio Wesleyan 63 No. 1 Hope 71
No. 3 Amherst 85 Richard Stockton 77
No. 5 Brandeis 74 No. 7 Plattsburgh State 63
Coast Guard 57 No. 13 Rochester 48
St. Mary's (Md.) 73 No. 14 Millsaps 82
Gettysburg 55 No. 16 Ursinus 79
Wheaton (Ill.) 76 Whitworth 67
Holy Coast Guard! Seven of eight finals are in and only one upset.
I'm not sure if you qualify Wheaton (IL) over Whitworth an upset.
Buena Vista, according to live stats, is up 46-40 with 17 remaining.
I wouldn't call Wheaton over Whitworth an upset (I liked Wheaton by 5 or 6), but others may differ.
Since Brandeis was AT Plattsburgh, that is
arguably an upset.
If BV holds on, THAT is an upset!
Wash U is up 69-66 with 1 minute or so to go.
I wouldn't call Brandeis an upset over Plattsburgh. Many posters kind of questioned Plattsburgh's legitimacy, even though they went undefeated in their region, while Brandeis plays in one of the toughest conferences in the country. D3hoops had Brandeis ranked higher as well. I'm on the fence if that's an upset since I know nothing about either of them, really.
71 all going into OT. Go BV (makes Point's loss look "better" lol )
Brandeis IS the best team Plattsburgh played.
Including U of R.
However, Plattsburgh could have played better and was close up to the Foul-a-thon at the end of the game.
#1 (forgot his name) was the difference. He hit 3pts, drove to the hoop, dished off for assits and was the best player on the court most of the game. Their leading scorer basically hit key 3pts when necessary, usually off good passed from #1. Good Luck Brandeis, they may destroy Amherst. For being the #1 ranked team, Amherst had all it wanted to get from The Stockton team. Stockton spotted them 17 points at the start of the game on 5-5 from the 3pt area. When Stockton started playing defense they held their own.
Good luck to all of the senior players on all the teams who are eliminated. May you all graduate and become great citizens, leaders and family men in your future. Lots of quality sportsmen in division III.
Classy post, Cards, hope your starters next year play as hard as this year's team did tonight. Solid team.
#1 is Andre Roberson, carried 'Deis through much of the game, til Coppens, Olson, etc could weigh in.
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 14, 2008, 11:15:09 PM
Brandeis IS the best team Plattsburgh played.
Including U of R.
They didn't play this year.
85-77 Wash. U. in OT.
Funny how winning the boards by 13 and shooting 51% from the floor can be offset by 31 turnovers.
GREAT run by BV can't overcome sloppy play.
Quote from: OshDude on March 14, 2008, 11:25:42 PM
Funny how winning the boards by 13 and shooting 51% from the floor can be offset by 31 turnovers.
GREAT run by BV can't overcome sloppy play.
Yeah, and according to Pat and Q, the TOs were not even
mainly due to Wash U defense - they were just carelessness.
Unfortunate end to a great season.
...And then there was 8.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 14, 2008, 11:29:43 PM
Quote from: OshDude on March 14, 2008, 11:25:42 PM
Funny how winning the boards by 13 and shooting 51% from the floor can be offset by 31 turnovers.
GREAT run by BV can't overcome sloppy play.
Yeah, and according to Pat and Q, the TOs were not even mainly due to Wash U defense - they were just carelessness.
Unfortunate end to a great season.
Even with the shooting and rebounding, it's almost a minor miracle that they were even in the game with 31 TOs, not even mentioning how they were up.
Great game tonight at Memorial Hall in Plattsburgh. Unfortunately Plattsburgh St ended up on the short end of a 74-63 ballgame. The Cards and the Judges played a back and forth 1st half with neither team gaining much of an advantage and with 3 1/2 mins to go the score was tied at 28. Brandeis closed with an 11-2 run to grab a 39-30 lead at the break. Plattsburgh was hampered by foul problems as Anthony Williams was called for his 3rd foul with about 5 mins. left in the half and was taken out of the game. The 2nd half was more of the same with Brandeis maintaining their lead but the Cardinals slowly chipped away and finally pulled to within 2 around the 7 min. mark. Plattsburgh finally caught the Judgesat 56 apiece with 4:50 to go, but Brandeis came down and hit a 3 to re-capture the lead and were never headed. Another 3 by Joe Coppens extended their lead to 6 and they stretched it to 8 at 66-58 with 1:52 remaining. Plattsburgh cut it to 5 on a 3 pointer by Williams but would get no closer as the Judges hit their foul shots to close the game out. Brandeis was led by Andre Roberson, who came off the bench to score 20 pts. Joe Coppens knocked down 4 treys to finish with 16 pts, and Terrell Hollins chipped in with 14.
Plattsburgh State All American Williams led all scorers with 28 pts, Antwane Miller had 12 pts. and Travis Gorham added 11 to pace the Cardinals.
Congratulations to Brandeis for their success tonight and good luck against Amherst tomorrow night.
We're going to see four incredible games Saturday night. These teams are all playing well; it's going to be a strong final four.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 15, 2008, 01:16:17 AM
We're going to see four incredible games Saturday night. These teams are all playing well; it's going to be a strong final four.
Unless it is 8 so-so teams compared with many previous years. I'm agnostic on strength, but I do think it will be exciting - I see no obvious blowouts. Coast Guard and Wheaton MAY come back to earth, but I somehow think they will be there right to the end.
As the sole d3 fanatic in my household, I'm committed to hosting a large party here tomorrow evening - but I'm intending to take a number of "bathroom" breaks during the games! ;D
Quote from: Cards7580 on March 14, 2008, 11:15:09 PM
Good Luck Brandeis, they may destroy Amherst. For being the #1 ranked team, Amherst had all it wanted to get from The Stockton team. Stockton spotted them 17 points at the start of the game on 5-5 from the 3pt area. When Stockton started playing defense they held their own.
Or not....Stockton is a good team. I anticipate a great game.
Here's how Massey ranked the Elite Eight teams going into the tournament using MOV:
Amherst #2
Brandeis #5
Ursinus #7
Hope #8
Millsaps #11
Wash U #19
Coast Guard #24
Wheaton #29
Rhoades - is that based on the end of the year schedule, or incorporating the games those teams have played in the tournament. The rankings look high for some teams, so I suspect their games in the tournament are being counted... which of course would raise those rankings some.
Massey has continued to update his ratings during the tournament -- not sure which those are.
Millsapa was #1 going into yesterdays games. MOV is ridiculous, most coaches call off the dogs when a victory is in hand. Why reward (or penalize) a school for not trying to embarrass an opposing team. This isn't DI football.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 15, 2008, 01:30:18 AM
Unless it is 8 so-so teams compared with many previous years. I'm agnostic on strength, but I do think it will be exciting - I see no obvious blowouts. Coast Guard and Wheaton MAY come back to earth, but I somehow think they will be there right to the end.
As the sole d3 fanatic in my household, I'm committed to hosting a large party here tomorrow evening - but I'm intending to take a number of "bathroom" breaks during the games! ;D
You have a laptop with wireless internet set up in the bathroom now? ;D
I know this is the men's site, but since we're talking 4 great games and all. The women have two undefeateds going against each other (#1 vs. #2) and 29-3 (?) Whitewater women hosting defending champion DePauw (somewhere around 29-3 as well). Not real sure about the other two.
Observations from press row @ Brandeis/Plattsburgh State:
The difference in the game was when Meehan went to a 1-2-2 zone late in the second half in order to stop Williams' penetration. Plattsburgh had been running the high p/r on practically every play before that, and Williams was scoring at will inside. When Meehan made the switch, it confused Plattsburgh, and it forced Williams to give the ball up to other guys who hadn't been in rhythm, since Williams was dominating the ball so much.
The other key was Plattsburgh's odd insistence of ducking under every Brandeis screen and roll, allowing guys like Coppens and Roberson free looks from three. You don't beat Brandeis by letting them shoot from three; you beat them by trapping those plays. That's how Olson hit his big three; his defender went under the screen, and he had a free look at the rim.
Quote from: pradam on March 15, 2008, 01:00:12 PM
Observations from press row @ Brandeis/Plattsburgh State:
The difference in the game was when Meehan went to a 1-2-2 zone late in the second half in order to stop Williams' penetration. Plattsburgh had been running the high p/r on practically every play before that, and Williams was scoring at will inside. When Meehan made the switch, it confused Plattsburgh, and it forced Williams to give the ball up to other guys who hadn't been in rhythm, since Williams was dominating the ball so much.
The other key was Plattsburgh's odd insistence of ducking under every Brandeis screen and roll, allowing guys like Coppens and Roberson free looks from three. You don't beat Brandeis by letting them shoot from three; you beat them by trapping those plays. That's how Olson hit his big three; his defender went under the screen, and he had a free look at the rim.
Thanks for the insight from one of your ancient Justice predecessors, did you stay over in Plattsburgh or shuttle back and forth?
We're in the Holiday Inn up here, which is probably not going to be so great for our bottom line, but we're not missing this opportunity.
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 15, 2008, 11:58:26 AM
Rhoades - is that based on the end of the year schedule, or incorporating the games those teams have played in the tournament. The rankings look high for some teams, so I suspect their games in the tournament are being counted... which of course would raise those rankings some.
I'm pretty sure these rankings did not include any tournament games, but I'm not certain. I'll see if I can verify the matter later on.
WBRS is here in Plattsburgh to bring you tonight's Elite Eight rematch between Brandeis and Amherst at 7PM. You can listen live online at www.wbrs.org, with pregame coverage starting around 6:45.
Massey has rankings through March 12th.
The Cinderella run for the Coast Guard Academy comes to an end, but certainly not without a fight. Ursinus takes it 82-76 in overtime. Grant Johnson of CGA had 21 in the first half, but was held to just 5 in the second half. Ursinus moves on to take on Amherst in Salem.
Well it was an interesting weekend. I was at the Plattsburgh Region and Amherst can shoot the lights out from three point range. Some of those shots were from 5-10 feet behind the arc. I can't remember the last time I saw a team that shot the three that well. They have 7 players that can shoot the three.
The D-III page has been updated so cast your vote on who you think will win the 2008 Men's Basketball Championship at www.tobannounced.com.
Great Job by the D3hoops radio team this weekend. I listened to all of the games on Saturday and the coverage was excellent ! I look forward to next week.
I just checked my records. I wrote down how Massey ranked all the teams in the tournament based on his MOV ratings. The ratings included games up to March 2. No tournament games were included.
Link to column from St. Louis Post-Dispatch (http://newsroom2.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/459287C0FE27A78E8625740E00161A6B?OpenDocument) about WashU's victory.
Nicely put about D3 championships in general.
No horse in the Final Four, so I'll just cheer for Washington U. and Ursinus...no real reason, I guess. Obviously, Washington U. impressed me last year and they beat the team that beat Point...and Ursinus? Time to get some new blood in there, I guess! lol...good luck to all four teams.
I thought you just liked Bears.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 16, 2008, 01:58:19 PM
No horse in the Final Four, so I'll just cheer for Washington U. and Ursinus...no real reason, I guess. Obviously, Washington U. impressed me last year and they beat the team that beat Point...and Ursinus? Time to get some new blood in there, I guess! lol...good luck to all four teams.
Actually they beat Stevens Point last year in the Sweet 16.
Think he's talking about this year with that phrase -- they beat BVU, which beat Stevens Point.
Yeah, trust me, I remember when Washington U. came in and put the smack down on the Pointers last year. No need to remind me! lol... :'( And yeah, was talking about this year. :o
Quote from: pabegg on March 16, 2008, 07:55:18 AM
Link to column from St. Louis Post-Dispatch (http://newsroom2.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/459287C0FE27A78E8625740E00161A6B?OpenDocument) about WashU's victory.
Nicely put about D3 championships in general.
I hate those "aw, isn't that widdle D3 tourney cute?" types of stores. They disrespect the very good level of basketball played at D3's topmost echelon, and it does a disservice to the hard work that D3 student-athletes put in, not only in games and practices but in the classroom as well.
Gregory, I agree with you 110%. It's as if they had the story written from a basic template before they arrived at the game and then they got there and filled it in with a few details. Not to mention, this piece was blatantly misleading, ommitting key facts and completely distorting others. Troy Ruths played well, but hardly had the "game of his life" as the writer stated. There wasn't a pep band at the game not because Wash.U. doesn't have one, but because it was spring break. Oh and despite it being spring break, there were probably more students there than there are at soem SLU games. And the tiny arena he speaks of seats 3,000 and is nicer than some low D1 facilities. Cutsey, self-serving article which required no real reporting and continued to propagate already-exagerated myths.
Agreed, a nice touch, but again some things are a bit off. National player of the year and Jostens winner are different, although I think this writer may be a bit clairvoyant as Ruths is my pick for player of the year (even though he did not get he conference nod). Also I would not compare Wash U's gym as something out of hoosiers, old yes, but small...not really, although when you compare anything to the carrier dome it will appear small. Overall though I think the article offered a good profile on the team and what is has accomplished.
Come on guys!!!
Mr Burwell is a feature writer for the Post and I think it was written that way. If you have a problem with it you can contact him at bburwell@post-dispatch.com. I might add it was a front page article in a 14 page sports section. It is also safe to say, this is probably the first local college campus he's been on. Including SLU, since they play at an oof campus site. I saw him at the game Saturday night and was suprised. He did take the time to attend.
On page 5 "Bears rally into the Final Four" is a half page article with game particulars and more quotes. It appears under the heading College Basketball. I might add that it was much larger then the "Memphis rolls to C-USA tourney title" article.
Publicity is Publicity. And in a major sports market like St. Louis, this is great coverage. I don't think this is something we should knock.
I'd be interested in knowing what kind of coverage the other 3 games received.
Let's see ESPN Sportscenter and the Front page of the Post-Dispatch, I think we've done well the past week.
Ursinus is the local Philadelphia Market and they got the old....Oh! by the way Ursinus won.. here is the article
Click here: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20080316_Ursinus_reaches_Division_III_Final_Four.html
Coast Guard write up was a lot better in a tough loss: http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=d35f2a22-1987-4dfa-84b0-8593601fafc6
Sir Coleman,
I think you forgot to inform me that I won the VIP Final Four Package. ::) ??? :o ;D :D ;)
and the Power Ball officials got it wrong, I did not buy the winning ticket in West Virginia
I realize that Burwell wrote it as a column rather than as a straight news story. And I agree that publicity is a sorely-needed commodity for D3 basketball. But the entire tone of the story was patronizing and condescending. As a diehard D3 basketball fan I felt vaguely insulted by it; plus, as Marty pointed out, it's essentially a cookie-cutter version of a lot of other "little engine that could" stories about the D3 tourney that have been written over the years.
It's just not good sportswriting.
Gregory... would you rather he had not written a thing?! It isn't perfect... but I will take that over completely missing the point and the event all together!
That's like asking someone if he'd rather be insulted or ignored. I suppose that it depends upon the recipient ... or the skill of the insulter. ;)
Sager - Brian Burwell is the leading feature writer for the largest and only newspaper in an extremely large mdwest sports market. On a Saturday night, with the Big 12, Big 10 and even the Missouri High School tournaments were going on, he chose to attend the DIII sectional game at Washington University. Even more importantly to write a front page lead story about it, with all the other sports news going on (ie; New Cardinal President, ending of spring training, the last weekend of DI basketball) this is HUGE. Not to merntion that the Post sent Mark Herb out to write an almost half page article covering the game for the "College Basketball" section of the same paper.
I don't think Burwell intentionaly belittled anyone. It was a Feature Story written in that style. It was his perception. Did you write him with your opinions? I doubt it. How many other major sports markets had a front page story on the DIII Elite Eight games in their Sunday Paper.
Compared to the Scottrade Center (were SLU and the Mo. Valley Conference Tourney are played), the Dome (where NCAA regionals are played) and even the New Sports Center in Columbia where (Mizzou and the MSHAA Final Four are played) the Field House at Wash U. is quite small.
I don't think he insulted or ignored anyone. You had the biggest sportswriter and major sports talk radio personality in St. Louis attending a game between two DIII basketball teams. And, this is what he decided to write about in the Sunday Sports page.
If you question is journalism skills then write him personally. Like Dave said "I will take that over completely missing the point and the event all together!".
You've missed the point on this one Mr. Sager.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2008, 12:27:36 AM
It's just not good sportswriting.
That's par for the course. Where I used to work the guys on the desk had a file of his stuff, and it's never good if the copy desk keeps your stuff on file. :)
Oh, I'm sure that's what it is.
Most of us here in the STL do appreciate the coverage. It's been a long time coming. And, I'm almost positive that Bryan Burwell does not get his material from any copy desk file.
I look forward to hearing the responses you get from Bryan. I'm sure you will all drop him a line and not just rip him here. Where he can't explain his thoughts.
Geeesh!!!
Count me in as another St. Louisan who looks at any coverage ot of the St. Louis Post as a cup 5% full, not 95% empty. I enjoyed Burwell's article not for its inaccuracies, but for the fact it was there... as well as the game coverage.
Also impressive is the radio coverage on KFNS, the sports station here in St Louis - the count is up to 5 Wash U related interviews in the last week and a half - 3 with Coach Edwards, one with Troy Ruths, one with Ron Zeccher, supervisor of local officials - all extremely positive, and they generated several phone ins too....
In this Cardinal/Rams/ Blues/ Mizzou wasteland, D3 fans are appreciative of this kind of recognition. One must recognize that the Post NORMALLY posts no game day event schedule for small schools (thank goodness for D3hoops), and less than half the time has box scores or a one line artice about SLIAC or Wash U games - generally their nationwide scores are only D1.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 17, 2008, 02:21:04 PM
not compare Wash U's gym as something out of hoosiers, old yes, but small...not really,
It's not that old. The current Field House was built in 1984. The old one was started in 1925 and Francis Gymnasium dates from the 1904 Olympics, as does Francis Field.
I appreciate the publicity but the lack of fact checking shows a lack of care. He wouldn't be so sloppy with teams with a larger fan base because he'd get just that much more flack.
Folks, with out major media coverage this tournament will never be anything more then the "widdle d3 event" mentioned. And, yet when coverage is given, instead of taking it for what it is worth all we do is bash it.
It brings me to the conclusion that a lot of people here on this board are just find with the way it is. Keep it pigeon holed to a point that the only news is what a few posters put on this site.
I don't beleive this is what the majority is striving for. IMHO
Quote from: fcnews on March 18, 2008, 12:17:48 PM
Oh, I'm sure that's what it is.
Most of us here in the STL do appreciate the coverage. It's been a long time coming. And, I'm almost positive that Bryan Burwell does not get his material from any copy desk file.
No. It ends up there because it is so poorly written and spelled that it gets saved for posterity.
I am with the Sager camp -- I am not satisfied by half-ass coverage of D-III. We shouldn't be happy to get a mailed-in story because that's all we can get. If that's our goal, folks, then we should just stay marginalized and never strive for better. If the big-time media doesn't respect D-III enough to write a REAL story about it, then we should not settle for what we get!
Did you read the story on page 5 of the same paper. Do you have any idea at all how much coverage it got. The article being ripped was one of several stories in the Post last week.
I bought the paper on my way out of town, yes. I also read Friday's paper.
I just don't think Bryan Burwell's column belongs on the same pedestal as Dave Kindred's far better piece in The Sporting News 2001.
I will always stand up for Division III when it is portrayed by the national media as the News of the Weird. And I always have.
I don't think any one is settling for what we get. I would love to see more coverage and more in-depth coverage. But at the same time, I am not going to "look a gift horse in its mouth" and bash any time of coverage outside of a box score or a small paragraph any where.
It is certainly a Catch 22. I would love to see far more coverage and something in the breath of the Sporting News article in 2001. I would rather see something a bit more long-term and more in-depth... but I also am not going to say "thanks, but no thanks" to the fact a big-time writer, radio host, and sometimes contributor to national television for deciding to even write something on the Elite 8 game.
I didn't remember seeing a camera at the Ursinus/CGA game (though, was told the ABC affiliate made it) and I haven't been able to find any article worth noting in the Philly papers to marked the fact the team was heading to Salem. That is more troubling than at least a reporter coming and writing something. Now, we can work on getting him to write more now that he has shown up.
At the same time, if we want more coverage, we should help out. I speak as a producer in a television station. There are times people just don't know what is going on and when we fill in the holes and help push an event, more "news people" become aware. We can do it on an individual basis. For example, the email to this writer shouldn't bash his efforts, but maybe thank him and then say... here are some things to consider next time you write; or did you know this; or I hope this isn't the last time you take the effort to cover this event and next time you can spend more time chatting with players, coaches, and fans.
I would also like to see Sports Information Directors and Athletic Departments, heck, maybe colleges as well - but they tend to miss out on that "stuff" as welL, to make more concerted efforts to tell local media about events at thier schools. I know this isn't easy and I know it sometimes falls on deaf ears, but that doesn't mean the effort should be dropped as well.
Sure, we want better coverage, but is it a good idea to say no thanks to what ever coverage we do get?
(PS - would you consider the article by Burwell as "news for the weird?")
Yeah, because it's the boilerplate stuff over and over. The person who writes only one column on it a year doesn't know what to write about so he/she falls back on the same old cliches that have been written everywhere. These guys try just as hard, they play in front of little crowds, blah blah blah.
The problem is, there probably won't be a second column. If there is, I would hope that there's some actual angle. As a news journalist yourself, you know this, right?
It's great for Wash U that it got its name on the front page of a Sunday sports section. But that doesn't mean it's a great piece. I don't think people realize those are two separate things.
It's great there's a piece. But it's not a great piece.
I'm not saying "no thanks" -- I'm just not drooling over it.
Pat I cut and pasted to the CCIW because we have two discussions going on.
Dave I appreciate your comments. And respect them, coming from someone of your background. Saturdays game had local TV station Channel 5 there. All four DIII schools in St. Louis have had features on the local TV stations. This has been a long and trying process to get them out. I used to be and SID at one of these schools. Ms. Kathleen Turner made the trip to Minn. in 2001 to cover the Fontbonne and Wash U. games in the sweet sixteen for the Post. It has been a long dry spell since.
This year has been great. And I'm of the school of thought that we have to start somewhere. Kindred's piece was well written. But, that was seven years ago.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion on the quality of Burwell's work. But, the Hack and poor sportswriter comments are way off base. Unless we have someone of Burwell's stature stepping up to do some immediate coverage, don't knock a new fan from the media off the bleachers.
And knowing national columnists as I know them from my decade-plus in the national media, fcnews, I'll tell you this: Don't assume that someone is a fan just because they write a fawning column.
If he's a fan, he'll be back multiple times, like John Walters of NBC or Austin Murphy of SI or Pat Reusse in Minneapolis or Jim Mandelaro in Rochester.
Quote from: fcnews on March 18, 2008, 12:17:48 PM
... and not just rip him here. Where he can't explain his thoughts.
Highly unlikely that he can't see what's going on here, of course. Don't be silly.
I'm sure you've pointed it out to him, in fact.
We will wait and see Pat. From your list above it appears we could use someone in the midwest/south to turn into a frequent fan. If I was Mr. Burwell reading these posts I would have a sour taste in my mouth for my efforts.
We here in STL will continue to cultivate any contacts we can. Fawning? Hmmm.
Your DARN right I have sent him an email. I tried to let him know this site exists. And I encouraged him to respond if he felt it was warranted. We're not in a closet here. This is a public forum isn't it?
If Mr. Burwell would possibly add this site to his "Bookmarks" maybe he could get a better feel for Division III sports in general. Surely you don't have a problem with that.
Nope, glad to hear of it. It's an open forum and we don't allow anonymous posting for a reason -- so people will know they have to stand by their posts.
Quote from: fcnews on March 18, 2008, 03:19:42 PM
I encouraged him to respond if he felt it was warranted.
Quote from: fcnews on March 18, 2008, 12:17:48 PM
... here. Where he can't explain his thoughts.
So ... is it that he can't explain his thoughts here or that you told him he should?
The amusing thing is, The front page of the St Louis Post today was an article wailing about the fact that St.Louis has no one to root for this weekend- no Mizzou schools, no Illinois schools made the tourney - the article turned to rooting against Rivals, for teams with individuals or coaches connected to them from the area, for the underdog etc etc
NARY a word about rooting for the local D3 school playing for a national championship- not even in jest
I have know idea if he will even elect to pull this site up. I am also not in a position to tell someone like Bryan Burwell what he should or should not do. I simply made him aware of the site and the comments made about his sportswriting skills. Plain and simple.
Your jabs are beginning to wear on me. I don't recall making this discussion personal. You have. I was just trying to defend a local writer that I admire.
I just read that article and I didn't find it condescending to D3 at all, he was merely painting the picture of what D3 is.
Well done Brian.
where can i read kindred's piece? if it isn't online can someone send it to me.
Quote from: pabegg on March 16, 2008, 07:55:18 AM
Link to column from St. Louis Post-Dispatch (http://newsroom2.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/bryanburwell/story/459287C0FE27A78E8625740E00161A6B?OpenDocument) about WashU's victory.
Nicely put about D3 championships in general.
Oops..wrong one [edit]
Quote from: fpc85 on March 18, 2008, 05:48:50 PM
where can i read kindred's piece? if it isn't online can someone send it to me.
Titan Q has the link on p. 995 of CCIW Chat.
Hey did I miss the announcement about the Salem Hospitality Package give-away?
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2008, 06:09:50 PM
Quote from: fpc85 on March 18, 2008, 05:48:50 PM
where can i read kindred's piece? if it isn't online can someone send it to me.
Titan Q has the link on p. 995 of CCIW Chat.
thanks
A winner was chosen and has been contacted, to my understanding.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 18, 2008, 07:24:33 PM
A winner was chosen and has been contacted, to my understanding.
So there's no Publishers Clearinghouse style announcement video we should be expecting?
I don't think so but we might catch up with them in Salem. :)
That would be funny, though. :)
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 17, 2008, 10:50:52 PM
Sir Coleman,
I think you forgot to inform me that I won the VIP Final Four Package. ::) ??? :o ;D :D ;)
and the Power Ball officials got it wrong, I did not buy the winning ticket in West Virginia
That is my round about way of finding out who won...oh well.
Well said, O-Bob!
I agree with you guys too. I much more prefer the genuine surprise from people like Eddie Fogler, who did the broadcasts for CSTV in 03-04 and 04-05 (and maybe beyond, though I'm not sure), who admitted he came in with slightly limited expectations, but was absolutely blown away by the play in Salem.
Check out some mention of Fogler's comments from the 05 wrap-up (http://www.d3hoops.com/salem/05/wrapup.htm) His comments on the broadcast during 03-04 were glowing, to say the least, as well.
When we get a genuine outburst of kudos for the quality that we know is here in DIII by someone in the DI spotlight (or formerly in the DI spotlight?), I think THIS is the best coverage that we can get. Unfortunately, it came to an audience that already knew what we've got, but...
The number of people who misunderstand DIII are like the leaves on the trees. To try try to reply (much less correct) even a relatively small number of them is hopeless. Move on.
Quote from: frank uible on March 19, 2008, 06:08:49 PM
The number of people who misunderstand DIII are like the leaves on the trees. To try try to reply (much less correct) even a relatively small number of them is hopeless. Move on.
I'd agree with you to a point but when one of those people reaches a great many people I'd think it's worth making an effort.
I've just finished reading the three pages of back and forth about Bryan Burwell's column and the D3 vs D1 question. Some very intersting perceptions on both sides of the argument. I'm not going to prolong that specific discussion. I do want to share, however, that last night the local NBC affiliate in St. Louis did a short piece on Wash U going to the Final Four. It was mostly fine but, once again, facts were not properly checked. The sportscaster, Frank Cusamano, reported that Wash U was playing Hope (correct) and that they had lost to Hope in the Final Four last year (Ooops). Oh well.
I was sitting in the lunch room at work yesterday talking with a young colleague (in his late 20s) who went to Missouri State (formerly Southwest Missouri State) for his freshman year of college. He had played baseball in high school and tried out for their team as a walk on. That experience didn't last long. He also plays some recreational basketball. He transferred to Mizzou for his final 3 years. We talk sports sometimes. He is a big Mizzou fan and knows I am a big D3 fan. I asked him if he had filled out ihis brackets yet for the D1 tournament. He said yes. I then told him I was going to the Final Four. He gave a knowing smile and asked "Where are you going?" I told him Salem, VA. He gave this little smirk and chuckle that made me feel like he thought I was going to a kindergarten tournament. I was annoyed, but kept my cool. But I wasn't quick enough to suggest he might get into a pick-up game with some of the local D3 players so he could know what it feels like to get his butt kicked by the players he appears to think so little of. I'll do that after the touurnament.
Quote from: y_jack_lok on March 19, 2008, 08:10:10 PM
I've just finished reading the three pages of back and forth about Bryan Burwell's column and the D3 vs D1 question. Some very intersting perceptions on both sides of the argument. I'm not going to prolong that specific discussion. I do want to share, however, that last night the local NBC affiliate in St. Louis did a short piece on Wash U going to the Final Four. It was mostly fine but, once again, facts were not properly checked. The sportscaster, Frank Cusamano, reported that Wash U was playing Hope (correct) and that they had lost to Hope in the Final Four last year (Ooops). Oh well.
Shhhh. Don't tell the Hope players that. They've been using the loss to WashU in the Elite Eight last year as motivation. ;)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 18, 2008, 07:28:02 PM
I don't think so but we might catch up with them in Salem. :)
Maybe, maybe not... I heard from the winner's "camp" and was asked to possibly come along as a guest/aid, as this might be the only way the winner would be able to attend. From Washington this would have been difficult, and more expensive than the allotted travel money would have covered. So at least as of this morning it was up in the air... Too bad! I hope the winner is able to figure out how to make it as he is a HUGE Hope fan!
No doubt -- the prize package is great as a bonus for someone who is already going to Salem, or to entice someone into coming who is on the fence. Many people who entered already are, obviously. :)
I don't know more than that -- we only administer the contest and give a winner's name and a few alternates to the Salem people. It's in their hands after that.
On the other hand of course I would have made the trip directly from Washington had I won, just couldn't make a trip to Michigan first...
We're one day away from the Final Four, who do think will win. Cast your vote at ;
www.tobannounced.com
Quote from: NW Hope Fan on March 20, 2008, 03:02:52 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 18, 2008, 07:28:02 PM
I don't think so but we might catch up with them in Salem. :)
Maybe, maybe not... I heard from the winner's "camp" and was asked to possibly come along as a guest/aid, as this might be the only way the winner would be able to attend. From Washington this would have been difficult, and more expensive than the allotted travel money would have covered. So at least as of this morning it was up in the air... Too bad! I hope the winner is able to figure out how to make it as he is a HUGE Hope fan!
Have no fear, NWHF... I heard this afternoon (from a
very reliable source) that the winner found the needed companion and is en route to Salem. Can't think of a better winner, either.
Here is how the voting is going so far and there is no runaway winner yet. Hopefully the games will be as close as the voting. If Amherst stays hot from the 3 I think they will advance to the finals. As far as the other game, I haven't seen either team but I have a strange feeling that Washington might be playing for the championship.
Who will win the 2008 NCAA Division III Men's Basketball Championship
Votes
#3 Amherst (26-3) 7 36.8%
#16 Ursinus (29-2) 2 10.5%
#11 Washington (23-6) 4 21.1%
#1 Hope (27-3) 6 31.6%
vote @ www.tobannounced.com
Considering that's only 19 votes while the front page question has almost 1400, the results are remarkably similar!
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 19, 2008, 06:22:36 PM
Quote from: frank uible on March 19, 2008, 06:08:49 PM
The number of people who misunderstand DIII are like the leaves on the trees. To try try to reply (much less correct) even a relatively small number of them is hopeless. Move on.
I'd agree with you to a point but when one of those people reaches a great many people I'd think it's worth making an effort.
I think almost (unless its completely negative) any coverage of DIII is positive as we "little guys" can use all the exposure we can get.
I would say the tone of Mr. Burwell's comments is a bit condescending. Perhaps that stems from the fact that he is more used to covering professional and major college events. And, as he is not too familiar with the culture within the DIII level community, he is not fully able to appreciate the essence and thus the beauty of competition on the smaller scale. :-\
Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 21, 2008, 01:21:15 PM
Here is how the voting is going so far and there is no runaway winner yet. Hopefully the games will be as close as the voting. If Amherst stays hot from the 3 I think they will advance to the finals. As far as the other game, I haven't seen either team but I have a strange feeling that Washington might be playing for the championship.
Who will win the 2008 NCAA Division III Men's Basketball Championship
Votes
#3 Amherst (26-3) 7 36.8%
#16 Ursinus (29-2) 2 10.5%
#11 Washington (23-6) 4 21.1%
#1 Hope (27-3) 6 31.6%
vote @ www.tobannounced.com
That same poll is on the Final 4 page on this website.
Hope 18
Amherst 17
Washington U. 11
Ursinus 5
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 21, 2008, 02:13:43 PM
Considering that's only 19 votes while the front page question has almost 1400, the results are remarkably similar!
The consistancy is amazing among DIII fans
I wish I would have been able to see Hope play before now. Fun to watch.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 21, 2008, 07:17:03 PM
I wish I would have been able to see Hope play before now. Fun to watch.
I totally understand what those Hope fans are always complaining about. We really don't get to know these guys that well during the season. I've held the Hope squad in high regard, but they are exceeding expectations.
Hell of a job by Washington U. knocking of Hope, I think they will give Amherst a game for a half, but Amherst is playing so well right now as a team that I don't think the Bears can dethrone the Lord Jeffs. but who knows anything can happen here
Early line is Amherst -11 over Washington U. Prediction Amherst 81, Washington 70. Poll has been reset so cast your vote for the DIII Champion
www.tobannounced.com
I'll take Washington U. and the points.
Good coverage on the games on CSTV, the only thing I don't like is that the time is not displayed on the screen. can someone bring that to the attention of the CSTV powers to be...
Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 21, 2008, 10:07:34 PM
Hell of a job by Washington U. knocking of Hope, I think they will give Amherst a game for a half, but Amherst is playing so well right now as a team that I don't think the Bears can dethrone the Lord Jeffs. but who knows anything can happen here
I am not taking anything away from Wash U tonight. They played very well and deserved to win but I agree with the post above the Amherst has to be the favorite tomorrow.
There is also NO WAY Wash U puts up 57 in a half again. They were just unconscious shooting from the field in the second half (65% overall, 62% from beyond the arc). That's not normal, no matter how good your team is, and won't happen again tomorrow.
Also, I hope for both teams sake that the balding ref from tonight is not in the state of VA tomorrow because he was atrocious in the first half.
Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 21, 2008, 10:07:34 PM
Hell of a job by Washington U. knocking of Hope, I think they will give Amherst a game for a half, but Amherst is playing so well right now as a team that I don't think the Bears can dethrone the Lord Jeffs. but who knows anything can happen here
Early line is Amherst -11 over Washington U. Prediction Amherst 81, Washington 70. Poll has been reset so cast your vote for the DIII Champion
www.tobannounced.com
Quote from: DCHopeNut on March 21, 2008, 11:55:50 PM
Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 21, 2008, 10:07:34 PM
Hell of a job by Washington U. knocking of Hope, I think they will give Amherst a game for a half, but Amherst is playing so well right now as a team that I don't think the Bears can dethrone the Lord Jeffs. but who knows anything can happen here
I am not taking anything away from Wash U tonight. They played very well and deserved to win but I agree with the post above the Amherst has to be the favorite tomorrow.
There is also NO WAY Wash U puts up 57 in a half again. They were just unconscious shooting from the field in the second half (65% overall, 62% from beyond the arc). That's not normal, no matter how good your team is, and won't happen again tomorrow.
Wow, were you two off!
Congratulations to Washington (MO), the 2008 D3 national champions.
2nd half...
45 pts.
70% Fg%
50% 3pt%
??? ::) :P ;D
Congrats to the Bears...all this without Sean Wallis
A long drive home but with obviously great memories. I thought the key to the game was Wash U's defense that seemed to force Amherst to start their offense much further from the basket, extending the passing lanes where Wash U could use their speed to disrupt the Lord Jeffs plays. The Bears were also relentless in their pressure on Andrew Olson. A great win for the Bears against a great team. Congrats to the Bears and to the other final four teams, what a great weekend.
I have to say first off, congrats to Wash U, they had an outstanding season, but I also have to say I am sick of the "and without Sean Wallis" that follows everything and has this season. I have also had to hear it for "without Steve Deluca" for Brandeis, and I just do not think it is right.
First off, who knows what would have happened had Wallis been in the line up every night this year, same result - maybe, probably even but still we will never know.
Second off, I feel it takes a small bit away from the accomplishment of the other players who were on the floor for the championship game.
AND FINALLY, and I think most importantly, Wash U was not WITHOUT Sean Wallis. This season as you saw in his blog, he was there every practice, and every game. His role changed but he was still very much with the team. Perhaps he was not dishing passes and driving the lane to score, but he was there.
Next year perhaps we will say wow Wash U accomplished ______ without Sean Wallis.....as an assistant coach.
Once again Congrats to the Bears, and I look forward to seeing how Sean and the other returners follow up next season.
The last 10 minutes of the game I was watching the WashU bench pretty closely (wishing it was the Hope bench ;)), and was especially keeping an eye on Wallis. He was running up and down the bench, encouraging guys, bringing them fluids to drink, taking their towels from them. As the clock wore down you could see the elation on his face. If there was any disappointment in him from not being on the floor, he gave no evidence of it. Instead, what you saw was pure, untempered joy. Pretty cool, I thought.
My comment was tongue-in-cheek, by the way. But considering he was one of their best players and they did have to adjust without him the whole year, I think it is an accomplishment and can't be ignored (and I guess can't be repeated constantly either).
The same goes for Wallis "not showing any disappointment on not being on the floor"...he had no choice, so he, too, had to adjust with life without being on the floor.
Rob Perry of Whitewater was the same way. He was the biggest cheerleader on the bench. I think a lot of WIACers think it was a pretty big feat when Whitewater lost Perry, but they still won the WIAC regular season and conference title.
Wall to Wall media coverage on the Victorious Bears in the STL.
Quote from: njachoopsfan on March 21, 2008, 10:14:04 PM
Good coverage on the games on CSTV, the only thing I don't like is that the time is not displayed on the screen. can someone bring that to the attention of the CSTV powers to be...
The NCAA's production of the semifinals and third-place games was limited, to be sure. Score bar was about as good as we were going to get.
Pat, when will the results of the Bracket Challenge be announced?
Quote from: fcnews on March 23, 2008, 01:23:51 PM
Wall to Wall media coverage on the Victorious Bears in the STL.
If by wall to wall, you mean everybody mentioned it, yes, but some spent about 30-45 seconds on it, or so it seemed.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 23, 2008, 11:02:42 AM
My comment was tongue-in-cheek, by the way. But considering he was one of their best players and they did have to adjust without him the whole year, I think it is an accomplishment and can't be ignored (and I guess can't be repeated constantly either).
The same goes for Wallis "not showing any disappointment on not being on the floor"...he had no choice, so he, too, had to adjust with life without being on the floor.
Rob Perry of Whitewater was the same way. He was the biggest cheerleader on the bench. I think a lot of WIACers think it was a pretty big feat when Whitewater lost Perry, but they still won the WIAC regular season and conference title.
He had no choice about whether to be on the floor, but he did have a choice about how he would respond to that. I've seen players sulk in those situations, or hold some of themselves back with a tinge of bitterness. Sean didn't do that.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 23, 2008, 09:42:18 AM
I have to say first off, congrats to Wash U, they had an outstanding season, but I also have to say I am sick of the "and without Sean Wallis" that follows everything and has this season. I have also had to hear it for "without Steve Deluca" for Brandeis, and I just do not think it is right.
I think that you have a good point here. All the space that gets devoted to talking about Wallis is space that isn't devoted to talking about one of the players who actually got the team to the national championship. Nevertheless, the fact that the team somehow won the national championship without the services of its third-team preseason All-American is too compelling a story to pass up.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 23, 2008, 09:42:18 AMFirst off, who knows what would have happened had Wallis been in the line up every night this year, same result - maybe, probably even but still we will never know.
True ... but isn't idle speculation half the fun of being a sports fan?
Quote from: ILive4This on March 23, 2008, 09:42:18 AMSecond off, I feel it takes a small bit away from the accomplishment of the other players who were on the floor for the championship game.
I don't agree with you at all about that. In fact, I think that the absence of Wallis greatly
adds to their accomplishment. The loss of their star point guard presented yet another hurdle that the Bears had to overcome -- and that can only add to their sense of achievement in hindsight.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 23, 2008, 09:42:18 AMAND FINALLY, and I think most importantly, Wash U was not WITHOUT Sean Wallis. This season as you saw in his blog, he was there every practice, and every game. His role changed but he was still very much with the team. Perhaps he was not dishing passes and driving the lane to score, but he was there.
Sure, he was there, and I have no doubt that his presence and his constant encouragement was a big boost to his team. But it wasn't even a fraction of the boost that he would've given to Wash U had he been in uniform, knocking down treys and dishing out assists. There's just no comparison between having Sean Wallis in a shirt and tie on the sidelines and having Sean Wallis on the floor in a Bears uniform.
Quote from: ILive4This on March 23, 2008, 09:42:18 AMNext year perhaps we will say wow Wash U accomplished ______ without Sean Wallis.....as an assistant coach.
Don't hold your breath. ;) :D
Back in Stevens Point's 2nd championship season, senior starting point guard Tamaris Relerford broke his hand in the 1st half of the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament against Lawrence. Yes, we had Jason Kalsow and Nick Bennett, but he was still our starting point guard. In came a little known freshman guard named Steve Hicklin who averaged around 6 minutes a game and took over the starting point guard job and helped us to the National Championship that year. Granted, losing Relerford probably wasn't as crucial as losing Wallis (Relerford was just 5th in scoring on the team), but he was still a very important part of the team and though he wasn't big in the stat categories, he ran our team very well. But, to have a freshman guard come in, basically, with cold feet, and play against a solid defensive team like Lawrence and then play against the full-court press of Puget Sound and come out with flying colors is pretty extraordinary.
So, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing the "without Sean Wallis" statement, and while it may seem like it takes away the accomplishments of the other players (or the spot light), it can't be understated what an important part Wallis is, just like Relerford was for our whole season until that NCAA tournament game.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 24, 2008, 04:44:21 PM
Back in Stevens Point's 2nd championship season, senior starting point guard Tamaris Relerford broke his hand in the 1st half of the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament against Lawrence. Yes, we had Jason Kalsow and Nick Bennett, but he was still our starting point guard. In came a little known freshman guard named Steve Hicklin who averaged around 6 minutes a game and took over the starting point guard job and helped us to the National Championship that year. Granted, losing Relerford probably wasn't as crucial as losing Wallis (Relerford was just 5th in scoring on the team), but he was still a very important part of the team and though he wasn't big in the stat categories, he ran our team very well. But, to have a freshman guard come in, basically, with cold feet, and play against a solid defensive team like Lawrence and then play against the full-court press of Puget Sound and come out with flying colors is pretty extraordinary.
So, I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing the "without Sean Wallis" statement, and while it may seem like it takes away the accomplishments of the other players (or the spot light), it can't be understated what an important part Wallis is, just like Relerford was for our whole season until that NCAA tournament game.
I totally agree... though TRel didn't have eye popping offensive stats, he still took care of the basketball and distributed it to his teammates... but he was also HUGE on the defensive end. He and Eric Maus were the two defensive anchors for Point, with everybody else just flying around making plays.
When Tamaris got hurt, it was a blow to our team... but it certainly provided an opportunity for other guys to step up. Hicks did this, and I really think it helped to propel his carreer.
Wash U hasn't had Wallis for quite some time this season. I really do feel for him, not being able to have an active, playing roll, but look at the weekend that Aaron Thompson had... especially when Ruths had to sit with foul trouble in the second half against Hope. Though Wallis wasn't available, it provided an opportunity for another player to step up, which Thompson did.
Was wondering if any tournament records were broken this year, team or individual?
For a more trivia related question - has anyone scored more than Troy Ruth's 63 points in a final four?
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 23, 2008, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: fcnews on March 23, 2008, 01:23:51 PM
Wall to Wall media coverage on the Victorious Bears in the STL.
If by wall to wall, you mean everybody mentioned it, yes, but some spent about 30-45 seconds on it, or so it seemed.
No truly wall-to-wall:
http://bearsports.wustl.edu/releases/08NCAAHits.html
This does not include other media hits such as the 3 radio stations that interviewed Coach Edwards yesterday.
Quote from: hopefan on March 25, 2008, 02:06:55 PM
Was wondering if any tournament records were broken this year, team or individual?
For a more trivia related question - has anyone scored more than Troy Ruth's 63 points in a final four?
The Division III Final Four record is 71 points by Greg Grant (Trenton State, 1989).
http://www.odaconline.com/hoopchamp/ncaarecords.htm
Doggonned Crabtree nipped him in Free throws too !! ;D ;D
With some time to look back on the tournament, now that it's over, I've got a few observations on the selection process that someone might have some answers for.
1. Millsaps was the "home" team in their game versus Mary Hardin-Baylor. Was that just because Millsaps was the actual host to that regional, or that they were the better seed? It's hard to imagine Millsaps making up that much ground in the regional rankings in the final week, especially since MHB didn't lose.
2. UW-Whitewater must have been the #1 ranked team in the West (over St. Thomas). Under normal circumstances, they should have gotten the UW-Stevens Point as the #2 seed in their regional rather than Lawrence, as Lawrence would have been ranked higher than UWSP. Was that bracketing due to keeping the 2 UW schools in separate regionals? I can't see geography as an issue here.
3. I looked at what the selections might have been if the old QOWI/SOSI system was still in place. Remarkably, only one selection would have changed. Emerson would have been in, and UWSP would have been out. Oddly enough, none of the other near misses (such as Cal Lutheran) were materially different in the two systems. There might have been some differences in the seeding (possibly Wooster ahead of Capital, or St. Thomas ahead of UW-Whitewater), but overall, the 2008 tournament was not as affected by the change as we might have expected.
The corollary question in the standard bracket is, "Was Maryville TN the #4 seed and Fontbonne the #3 seed?" :o
IMHO, Millsaps was a #2 seed that got to host because they had "geographic proximity".
Quote from: Ralph Turner on April 03, 2008, 12:39:56 PM
The corollary question in the standard bracket is, "Was Maryville TN the #4 seed and Fontbonne the #3 seed?" :o
IMHO, Millsaps was a #2 seed that got to host because they had "geographic proximity".
(Slapping side of head) Yeah, that was actually the best piece of evidence that MHB was #1, because there is no way that Fontbonne was seeded ahead of Maryville TN.
And yes, there's no question that the regional was at Millsaps due to the geography issue.
The NCAA announced today that the men's basketball tournament is expanding from 59 to 60 teams.
Pool C remains at 17 teams, Pool B remains at 4. The NATHC's automatic bid is the change.
Ralph, can you please check to make sure the NCAA has its math on straight? :)
Championships Handbook:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36602
Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 02, 2008, 02:33:51 PM
The NCAA announced today that the men's basketball tournament is expanding from 59 to 60 teams.
Pool C remains at 17 teams, Pool B remains at 4. The NATHC's automatic bid is the change.
Ralph, can you please check to make sure the NCAA has its math on straight? :)
Championships Handbook:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36602
Thank you for asking. :)
I think that we need 39 Pool A bids, 3 Pool B bids and 18 Pool C bids. I have tried to reconcile my calculations with the Handbook in Pool B Message Board
Post 1304 (http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=2870.1304).
If we round up the quotient of the access ratio calculation for 28-38 Pool B participants, then we get 4 Pool B bids. If we truncate the quotient of that calculation for 28-38 schools, then we get 3 Pool B bids. (The wording in other Handbooks is "truncate", and I have not heard that Basketball has used a different standard, i.e., rounding up).
I like it...I am all for more teams. Even if it is just one more.
Yeah, I'm not sure how the NCAA is getting to four B's unless the previous information on provisional schools they released was incorrect.
Well, if we are lucky, the NCAA will realize their math is wrong and issue a change less than seven days prior to Selection Sunday! ;D
Why, d-mac, you know something like that could never happen! ;)
Mr. Yipsy, you are right... that could never happen!!! :)
I actually have a source that tells me the Basketball Championship Committee has already been emailed regarding Ralph Turner's information, especially about the "truncated" part of how Pool B "bids" are supposed to be allocated.
I suspect a change will come, or at least an explanation. Don't be surprised to see Pool B dropped to 3... or the word "truncated" changed in some manner. I truely suspect this issue isn't over.
Why is there always an issue? ::)
Quote from: sac on December 04, 2008, 11:17:24 AM
Why is there always an issue? ::)
I think that it is a matter of priorities for us D3 fans. The playoffs are big with us. We want to know all aspects of the playoffs.
IMHO, the number of Pool B and Pool C bids drives our discussions. However, I look at the perennial issues with determining the proper number of bids in the various sports and wonder if there is a deficiency of data management (as in the "Beer Game" in the book,
Fifth Discipline.) It seems that there is not a central data bank that manages conference and institutional membership and sports participation so that the work is done for the committees. (I absolutely will defend the coaches and AD's who sit on the Championship Selection Committees. That is not their job to generate the data elements.)
I know that schools need to declare their participation in the sport for the season. Conferences need to confirm AQ bids. Dual affiliates need to declare NCAA or NAIA. When appropriate data points have been enteredinot the NCAA computer, then the list should be automatic for every sport. I just don't think that database exists or exists to the degree that we would like.
If that list is not "do-able", then get the info out for us fans to look at it. All we want is a fair shot and an equitable allocation of resources for "our student-athletes". :)
This e-mail was sent to D-III members today...
QuoteThis is to let you know there has been a slight correction to the pool numbers that are different from the memo emailed December 2. Corrected pool numbers are listed below and also in the 2009 NCAA Division III Men's Basketball Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36602).
Pool A – 39
Pool B – 3
Pool C - 18
LINDA GODBY - Championships
National Collegiate Athletic Association
Quote from: Just Bill on December 10, 2008, 03:24:02 PM
This e-mail was sent to D-III members today...
QuoteThis is to let you know there has been a slight correction to the pool numbers that are different from the memo emailed December 2. Corrected pool numbers are listed below and also in the 2009 NCAA Division III Men's Basketball Handbook (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=36602).
Pool A – 39
Pool B – 3
Pool C - 18
LINDA GODBY - Championships
National Collegiate Athletic Association
YES!!! :)
Pool B projections for 2009-10...
Thirty-four Pool B teams in 2008-09,
Plus two new members in 2009-10 going to Pool B (Mitchell in the NECC and Presentation in the UMAC) make 36 Pool B's.
Minus 8 Landmark members going to Pool A equals 28.
The Access ratio is 9.30 (and may not change very much)
28 divided by 9.3 = 3.01 which truncates to 3 bids.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on December 10, 2008, 03:59:44 PM
Pool B projections for 2009-10...
Thirty-four Pool B teams in 2008-09,
Plus two new members in 2009-10 going to Pool B (Mitchell in the NECC and Presentation in the UMAC) make 36 Pool B's.
Minus 8 Landmark members going to Pool A equals 28.
The Access ratio is 9.30 (and may not change very much)
28 divided by 9.3 = 3.01 which truncates to 3 bids.
Ralph,
Perhaps you should send that info to the NCAA so they won't make the same mistake next year. Or they can just put you on the committee!! ;D
Now that we are 8 games into the Division III Mens Basketball season, who do you think will make a run at the title? Wash. U?
It is way too early in the season to make any solid predictions being that most schools are only a game or 2 into their conference schedule and some haven't had a conference game at all yet. This should be interesting to see what people say on this board.
Regardless of the 18 Pool C bids that we have, the second season is beginning soon for everyone except the UAA.
How many teams including Cinderellas have access to the NCAA Tournament?
Let's start counting. Here is the list of the Pool A conferences. Please cut and paste this list as each of us contributes. Thanks to all.
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference
Centennial Conference
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin
Commonwealth Conference
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Freedom Conference
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
New England Small College Athletic Conference
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference
Ohio Athletic Conference
Old Dominion Athletic Conference
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 8 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Conference
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Freedom Conference
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
New England Small College Athletic Conference
New England Women’s and Men’s Athletics Conference
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference
Ohio Athletic Conference
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President’s Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 8 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Conference
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Freedom Conference
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
New England Small College Athletic Conference
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference
Ohio Athletic Conference
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 8 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Conference
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Freedom Conference
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
New England Small College Athletic Conference
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 8 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Conference
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Freedom Conference
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
New England Small College Athletic Conference
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
(Corrects CAC to six teams.)
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women’s and Men’s Athletics Conference
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President’s Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
(Edited to remove quote format...dc)
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8 =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference
State University of New York Athletic Conference= Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8 =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference= Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8 =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference= Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8 =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total- 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference= Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8 =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total- 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Liberty League = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women’s and Men’s Athletics Conference = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President’s Athletic Conference: All 7 eligible teams qualify (excl. D3 provisionals); top seed gets first round bye and right to host semis/finals.
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference= Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference
Empire 8 =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total- 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: Total-6 teams, Highest seed hosts #1/#2 First Round bye
Liberty League = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference
MAC Commonwealth Conference
MAC Freedom Conference
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference
North Atlantic Conference
North Coast Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference
Northern Athletics Conference
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
Pennsylvania Athletic Conference
President's Athletic Conference: All 7 eligible teams qualify (excl. D3 provisionals); top seed gets first round bye and right to host semis/finals.
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference= 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference= Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2009, 11:02:30 PM
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference: Top 6 teams. Tuesday Feb 24th #6 at #3; #5 at #4; Winners play at #1 seed on Feb 27th and 28th
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference: = 8 teams; higher seeds host; 2/21 higher seed; 2/24 at CCNY; 2/27 at CCNY
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference: Total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Colonial States Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 9; 2/21 #6 at #3 & #5 at #4; 2/23 #1 hosts lowest seed remaining & #2 hosts the other seed; 2/27 higher seed host.
Empire 8: Total =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference: total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference Need info; was top 6 in 2008
Liberty League: = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference need info!
MAC Commonwealth Conference: = 4 teams; 2/25; 2;28; higher seeds host.
MAC Freedom Conference: = 5 teams; #5 at #4 2/23; 2/25; 2/28 higher seeds host.
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference: (need 2009; in 2008 took top 6 higher seed hosted.)
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight (8) conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: = Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference: = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference: = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 10. (#3N at #2S/#3S at #2N 2/21; 2/24 semis at #1 seeds; 2/27 Finals
North Atlantic Conference: not available
North Coast Athletic Conference: = Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference: = All 9 teams; formula applies if an NCAA provisional member wins the tourney.
Northern Athletics Conference: = 8 teams; top 4 from each division; 2/25 higher seed hosts at 4 sites; 2/27; 2/28.
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
President's Athletic Conference: = All 7 eligible teams qualify (excl. D3 provisionals); top seed gets first round bye and right to host semis/finals.
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference: = Top 6 teams; 2/24, 2/26, 2/28; Higher seed hosts.
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams of 8; top 4 at the highest seed
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference: = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference: = Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference not on conference website!
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
** Correction to the SCIAC**
Top 4 play, with higher sead hosting opponent - #1 hosts #4, #2 hosts #3 - then highest seed remaining hosts. Last year - #4 CMS wins @ #1 Oxy, #3 PP wins @ #2 CLU - #4 CMS loses @ #3 PP
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2009, 01:21:57 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 19, 2009, 11:02:30 PM
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference: Top 6 teams. Tuesday Feb 24th #6 at #3; #5 at #4; Winners play at #1 seed on Feb 27th and 28th
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference: = 8 teams; higher seeds host; 2/21 higher seed; 2/24 at CCNY; 2/27 at CCNY
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference: Total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Colonial States Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 9; 2/21 #6 at #3 & #5 at #4; 2/23 #1 hosts lowest seed remaining & #2 hosts the other seed; 2/27 higher seed host.
Empire 8: Total =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Great Northeast Athletic Conference: total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: Quarterfinals - Tuesday, Feb. 24
#6 Central @ #3 Loras
#5 University of Dubuque @ #4 Warburg
Semifinals - Thursday, Feb. 26
Lowest seed winner @ #1 Buena Vista
Other Qrt. winner @ #2 Cornell
Championship game - Saturday, Feb 28
@ Highest seed
Liberty League: = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference need info!
MAC Commonwealth Conference: = 4 teams; 2/25; 2;28; higher seeds host.
MAC Freedom Conference: = 5 teams; #5 at #4 2/23; 2/25; 2/28 higher seeds host.
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference: (need 2009; in 2008 took top 6 higher seed hosted.)
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight ( 8 ) conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: = Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference: = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference: = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 10. (#3N at #2S/#3S at #2N 2/21; 2/24 semis at #1 seeds; 2/27 Finals
North Atlantic Conference: not available
North Coast Athletic Conference: = Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference: = All 9 teams; formula applies if an NCAA provisional member wins the tourney.
Northern Athletics Conference: = 8 teams; top 4 from each division; 2/25 higher seed hosts at 4 sites; 2/27; 2/28.
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
President's Athletic Conference: = All 7 eligible teams qualify (excl. D3 provisionals); top seed gets first round bye and right to host semis/finals.
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference: = Top 6 teams; 2/24, 2/26, 2/28; Higher seed hosts.
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams of 8; Top 4 play, with higher seed hosting opponent - #1 hosts #4, #2 hosts #3 - then highest seed remaining hosts. (Last year - #4 CMS wins @ #1 Oxy, #3 PP wins @ #2 CLU - #4 CMS loses @ #3 PP)
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference: = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference: = Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference not on conference website!
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Corrections made to date! Thanks to all contributors so far!
All that quoting gave me a headache! lol :o
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference: Top 6 teams. Tuesday Feb 24th #6 at #3; #5 at #4; Winners play at #1 seed on Feb 27th and 28th
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference: = 8 teams; higher seeds host; 2/21 higher seed; 2/24 at CCNY; 2/27 at CCNY
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference: Total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Colonial States Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 9; 2/21 #6 at #3 & #5 at #4; 2/23 #1 hosts lowest seed remaining & #2 hosts the other seed; 2/27 higher seed host.
Empire 8: Total =Top 4 teams; #1 seed hosts; Semifinals 2-27 and Championship 2-28 at #1 seed Ithaca College*
Great Northeast Athletic Conference: total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: Quarterfinals - Tuesday, Feb. 24
#6 Central @ #3 Loras
#5 University of Dubuque @ #4 Warburg
Semifinals - Thursday, Feb. 26
Lowest seed winner @ #1 Buena Vista
Other Qrt. winner @ #2 Cornell
Championship game - Saturday, Feb 28
@ Highest seed
Liberty League: = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts
Little East Conference need info!
MAC Commonwealth Conference: = 4 teams; 2/25; 2;28; higher seeds host.
MAC Freedom Conference: = 5 teams; #5 at #4 2/23; 2/25; 2/28 higher seeds host.
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference: (need 2009; in 2008 took top 6 higher seed hosted.)
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight ( 8 ) conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: = Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference: = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference: = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 10. (#3N at #2S/#3S at #2N 2/21; 2/24 semis at #1 seeds; 2/27 Finals
North Atlantic Conference: not available
North Coast Athletic Conference: = Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference: = All 9 teams; formula applies if an NCAA provisional member wins the tourney.
Northern Athletics Conference: = 8 teams; top 4 from each division; 2/25 higher seed hosts at 4 sites; 2/27; 2/28.
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
President's Athletic Conference: = All 7 eligible teams qualify (excl. D3 provisionals); top seed gets first round bye and right to host semis/finals.
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference: = Top 6 teams; 2/24, 2/26, 2/28; Higher seed hosts.
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams of 8; Top 4 play, with higher seed hosting opponent - #1 hosts #4, #2 hosts #3 - then highest seed remaining hosts. (Last year - #4 CMS wins @ #1 Oxy, #3 PP wins @ #2 CLU - #4 CMS loses @ #3 PP)
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference: = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference: = Top 8 teams, All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference not on conference website!
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference: Top 6 teams. Tuesday Feb 24th #6 at #3; #5 at #4; Winners play at #1 seed on Feb 27th and 28th
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference: = 8 teams; higher seeds host; 2/21 higher seed; 2/24 at CCNY; 2/27 at CCNY
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference: Total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Colonial States Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 9; 2/21 #6 at #3 & #5 at #4; 2/23 #1 hosts lowest seed remaining & #2 hosts the other seed; 2/27 higher seed host.
Empire 8: Total =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts; Semifinals 2-27 and Championship 2-28 at #1 seed Ithaca College*
Great Northeast Athletic Conference: total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: Quarterfinals - Tuesday, Feb. 24
#6 Central @ #3 Loras
#5 University of Dubuque @ #4 Warburg
Semifinals - Thursday, Feb. 26
Lowest seed winner @ #1 Buena Vista
Other Qrt. winner @ #2 Cornell
Championship game - Saturday, Feb 28
@ Highest seed
Liberty League: = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts; Semifinals 2-27 and Championship 2-28 at #1 seed*
Little East Conference: = 8 teams* 2/24 (http://www.littleeast.com/Championships/2008-09-championship-dates); 2/27; 2/28 highest seed hosts.
MAC Commonwealth Conference: = 4 teams; 2/25; 2/28; higher seeds host.
MAC Freedom Conference: = 5 teams; #5 at #4 2/23; 2/25; 2/28 higher seeds host.
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference: Per magicman's research...6 teams detailed below. 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; highest seeds host.
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight ( 8 ) conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: = Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference: = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference: = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 10. (#3N at #2S/#3S at #2N 2/21; 2/24 semis at #1 seeds; 2/27 Finals
North Atlantic Conference: = 6 teams, games on 2/24, 2/27, 2/28
North Coast Athletic Conference: = Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference: = All 9 teams; formula applies if an NCAA provisional member wins the tourney.
Northern Athletics Conference: = 8 teams; top 4 from each division; 2/25 higher seed hosts at 4 sites; 2/27; 2/28.
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
President's Athletic Conference: = All 7 eligible teams qualify (excl. D3 provisionals); 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; top seed gets first round bye and higher seed has right to host.
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference: = Top 6 teams; 2/24, 2/26, 2/28; Higher seed hosts.
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams of 8; Top 4 play, with higher seed hosting opponent - #1 hosts #4, #2 hosts #3 - then highest seed remaining hosts. (Last year - #4 CMS wins @ #1 Oxy, #3 PP wins @ #2 CLU - #4 CMS loses @ #3 PP)
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference: = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference: = Top 8 teams, SUNYAC: Quarterfinals 2-24 at higher seed; Semifinals on 2-27 and Championship on 2-28 at highest remaing seed. All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.*
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference: = 7 teams. First round 2/24; Final four 2/26 and 2/27 at CNU
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
*Thanks to Magicman for the LEC link and other details.
Only MASCAC, NAC and USA South remain.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2009, 07:29:13 PM
Only MASCAC, NAC and USA South remain.
Ralph,
The Little East Conference is showing on their website that #8 Southern Maine is at #1 Rhode Island and #7 UMass Boston is at #2 UMass Dartmouth on 2-24. The #3 through #6 seeds have yet to be determined otherwise they would have posted 4 games on that date. Higher seed hosts quarterfinals. Semifinals and finals at highest remaining seed. So I think that all 8 teams are in the conference tournament. They have had all 8 teams participate in the past few years. I didn't change it in the conference listings because I have found that you are usually right but I did want to bring it to your attention.
Well, I missed that page on the site!
Does the tourney finish on 2/28?
Do you have a link?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 20, 2009, 08:12:33 PM
Well, I missed that page on the site!
Does the tourney finish on 2/28?
Do you have a link?
Ralph,
Here's a link to their conference schedule. Last games listed are the two I mentioned in my previous post. Roll over the symbol on the right of the video link it says #7 at #2 and #8 at #1.Stands to reason that all 8 teams are playing and that semis and finals will be on 2-27 and 2-28. That's what they did last year.( Tues. Fri. Sat.)
http://www.littleeast.com/sports/mbkb/2008-09/schedule
Just a note for the NJAC, Stockton is the South #1 and Montclair is the North #1, Stockton is the overall #1 seed and host as long as they win.
Ralph,
Regarding the MASCAC: Here's a headline from Fitchburg St website.
Fitchburg State Rolls Past MCLA, 80-44
Torres nets a game-high 32 points as Falcons set sights on MASCAC playoffs.
Since that win gave them a 2-9 conference record with 1 game to play they clinched 6th place in a 7 team league. MCLA at 0-11 cannot overtake them and
Worcester St. is in 5th place with a 5-6 record so Fitchburg can't move up. I believe the top 6 teams are in the playoffs, as you mentioned earlier. 1st round will be Tues. 2-24 with #3 seed hosting #6 and #4 seed hosting #5. Semifinals are on Thurs. 2-26 with lowest remaining seed at #1 and other 1st round winner at #2. Final on Sat. 2-28 at highest remaining seed. That's what they did last year and since no one has offered any info, that's what I would go with. Pretty sure I'm right about this.
Ralph,
Here are some dates to add to the Conference page.
SUNYAC: Quarterfinals 2-24 at higher seed
Semifinals on 2-27 and Championship on 2-28 at highest remaing seed.
Empire 8: Semifnals 2-27 and Championship 2-28 at #1 seed Ithaca College
Liberty League: Semifinals 2-27 and Championship 2-28 at #1 seed
NAC is 6 teams, games on 2/24, 2/27, 2/28
USAC is 7 teams, games on 2/24, 2/27, 2/28 (Semis and Finals hosted by Christopher Newport)
By my count, this answers the original question, as there are 245 tournament teams playing for Pool A bids, plus WashU as the regular season UAA champ.
My reading of the PresAC site is that the semifinals are played at the top two seeds on the 26th rather than as a final four.
Best current update. Thanks to all. This work made the front page story! ;)
Allegheny Mountain Collegiate Conference: Top 6 teams. Tuesday Feb 24th #6 at #3; #5 at #4; Winners play at #1 seed on Feb 27th and 28th
American Southwest Conference: Top 4 from each division. East #1 hosts. Total = 8 teams
Capital Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams
Centennial Conference: Total = 5 teams
City University of New York Athletic Conference: = 8 teams; higher seeds host; 2/21 higher seed; 2/24 at CCNY; 2/27 at CCNY
College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin: Total = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Commonwealth Coast Conference: Total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Colonial States Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 9; 2/21 #6 at #3 & #5 at #4; 2/23 #1 hosts lowest seed remaining & #2 hosts the other seed; 2/27 higher seed host.
Empire 8: Total =Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts; Semifinals 2-28 and Championship 3-1 at #1 seed Ithaca College*
Great Northeast Athletic Conference: total = 8 teams; 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; higher seed hosts.
Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference: Total = 6 teams, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5, winners go to #1 on Fri/ Sat
Iowa Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: Quarterfinals - Tuesday, Feb. 24
#6 Central @ #3 Loras
#5 University of Dubuque @ #4 Warburg
Semifinals - Thursday, Feb. 26
Lowest seed winner @ #1 Buena Vista
Other Qrt. winner @ #2 Cornell
Championship game - Saturday, Feb 28
@ Highest seed
Liberty League: = Top 4 teams, #1 seed hosts; Semifinals 2-27 and Championship 2-28 at #1 seed*
Little East Conference: = 8 teams* 2/24 (http://www.littleeast.com/Championships/2008-09-championship-dates); 2/27; 2/28 highest seed hosts.
MAC Commonwealth Conference: = 4 teams; 2/25; 2/28; higher seeds host.
MAC Freedom Conference: = 5 teams; #5 at #4 2/23; 2/25; 2/28 higher seeds host.
Massachusetts State College Athletic Conference: Per magicman's research...6 teams detailed below. 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; highest seeds host.
Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association: All eight ( 8 ) conference teams are in the tournament. Highest seeds host first round games on Wednesday night ... Semifinals on Friday and championship on Saturday at the highest surviving seed.
Midwest Conference: = Top 4 teams at #1 seed on Friday and Saturday
Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
New England Small College Athletic Conference: = 8 teams, semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
New England Women's and Men's Athletics Conference: = All 7 teams qualify, top seed receives a bye
New Jersey Athletic Conference: = 6 teams of 10. (#3N at #2S/#3S at #2N 2/21; 2/24 semis at #1 seeds; 2/27 Finals
North Atlantic Conference: = 6 teams, games on 2/24, 2/27, 2/28
North Coast Athletic Conference: = Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
North Eastern Athletic Conference: = All 9 teams; formula applies if an NCAA provisional member wins the tourney.
Northern Athletics Conference: = 8 teams; top 4 from each division; 2/25 higher seed hosts at 4 sites; 2/27; 2/28.
Northwest Conference: Top 4 teams - #4 at #1, #3 at #2 on 02/26; winners at highest remaining seed on 02/28
Ohio Athletic Conference: Top 8 (of 10) teams qualify; semifinals/finals at site of highest seed to survive quarterfinals
Old Dominion Athletic Conference: Total = 11 teams, #6-#11 at higher seed Tuesday; rest of tournament at "neutral" host: Salem Civic Center
President's Athletic Conference: = All 7 eligible teams qualify (excl. D3 provisionals); 2/24; 2/26; 2/28; top seed gets first round bye and higher seed has right to host.
St. Louis Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams, #1 hosts.
Skyline Conference: = Top 6 teams; 2/24, 2/26, 2/28; Higher seed hosts.
Southern California Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 4 teams of 8; Top 4 play, with higher seed hosting opponent - #1 hosts #4, #2 hosts #3 - then highest seed remaining hosts. (Last year - #4 CMS wins @ #1 Oxy, #3 PP wins @ #2 CLU - #4 CMS loses @ #3 PP)
Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference: = top 8 teams of 12; 4 top in the east and 4 top in the west; 1E & 4W; 2E & 3W; 3E & 2W; 4E & 1W; full tournament held in Conway AR home of Hendrix College
State University of New York Athletic Conference: = Top 8 teams, SUNYAC: Quarterfinals 2-24 at higher seed; Semifinals on 2-27 and Championship on 2-28 at highest remaing seed. All games at higher seed, semifinals/finals at highest remaining seed.*
University Athletic Association: No tourney. Only Wash U, the regular season winner.
USA South Athletic Conference: = 7 teams. First round 2/24; Final four 2/26 and 2/27 at CNU
Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference: = 6 teams, all games at higher seeds
EDITS updated thru Magicman's E8 report! Thanks to all!
Keep those reports comin' in! :)
Quote from: pabegg on February 21, 2009, 12:32:46 PM
My reading of the PresAC site is that the semifinals are played at the top two seeds on the 26th rather than as a final four.
That's correct (http://www.pacathletics.org/PACCodebook/championshipformats.htm#mbasketcf); thanks for checking up on my work.
Ralph,
Conflicting info last night on the Empire 8 website. The semifinals are on Sat. Feb. 28th and finals on Sun. March 1st. I originally reported the 27th and 28th. At least they didn't change the site. It's still at Ithaca. :D
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 21, 2009, 12:52:55 PM
Best current update. Thanks to all. This work made the front page story! ;)
Yep, thanks for compiling this and doing the math!
Ralph,
Change in IIAC. #1 seed does NOT automatically play lowest seed. They play winner of Wartburg/ U Dub. game no matter what. -Sorry
First Round - Tuesday, Feb. 24
#6 Central @ #3 Loras
#5 Dubuque @ #4 Wartburg
7 p.m. Semifinals - Thursday, Feb. 26
#4 Wartburg/#5 Dubuque winner @ #1 Buena Vista
7 p.m. #3 Loras/#6 Central winner @ #2 Cornell
7 p.m. Championship game - Saturday, Feb. 28
Semifinal winners TBA @ Highest seed
I've lost touch with details of matchups - How badly does Wash U's lost to Rochester hurt their chances of hosting a group of four?
With the first eight schools in last weeks poll coming from the "west", who will have to travel - how do we think these schools will get broken down to only 3 groupings? Do 3 wisconsin schools go to 3 different settings? Do all the West coast schools travel? Or is it just ridiculously too early to speculate?
Quote from: hopefan on February 23, 2009, 03:09:40 PM
Or is it just ridiculously too early to speculate?
That one.
The Commonwealth Coast Conference is on to the semi-finals.
Thursday night will feature:
Gordon at Colby Sawyer (3v2)
and
Salve Regina at University of New England (4v1)
Quote from: Alfredeneumann on February 23, 2009, 01:52:58 PM
Ralph,
Change in IIAC. #1 seed does NOT automatically play lowest seed. They play winner of Wartburg/ U Dub. game no matter what. -Sorry
First Round - Tuesday, Feb. 24
#6 Central @ #3 Loras
#5 Dubuque @ #4 Wartburg
7 p.m. Semifinals - Thursday, Feb. 26
#4 Wartburg/#5 Dubuque winner @ #1 Buena Vista
7 p.m. #3 Loras/#6 Central winner @ #2 Cornell
7 p.m. Championship game - Saturday, Feb. 28
Semifinal winners TBA @ Highest seed
Semifinals - Thursday, Feb. 26
#4 Wartburg @ #1 Buena Vista 7 p.m.
#3 Loras @ #2 Cornell 7 p.m.
The NCAC semifinals will feature Cinderella, Cinderemma, and Cindergeorge: #5 Kenyon, #6 Wabash, and #7 Allegheny all advanced, along with top seed and semifinal/final host Wooster. Kenyon's victory dropped Wittenberg to 13-13 on the year, snapping a 40-year streak of winning seasons by the Tigers. Witt's 53-year streak of non-losing seasons remains intact. Wooster's win (over Denison) brings their record to 20-6, extending their streak of 20-win seasons to 13.
Look! I found a picture of Cindergeorge!
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.gawker.com%2Fassets%2Fresources%2F2007%2F05%2Fdoris.jpg&hash=6e096d42d2e40c9f0fe5f608704204b40e43b06a)
We are getting very close...I can't wait for the brackets! 8)
Well the NCAC did its best OAC impression last night, with 3 of 4 lower seeds winning quarterfinal games (see David's post above).
Tonight the OAC did its best NCAC impression, as top seeds mostly held serve and the #5/#4 game was mostly a toss-up.
Final scores:
#8 Heidelberg 68, #1 John Carroll 78
#5 Muskingum 70, #4 Wilmington 69
#6 Marietta 52, #3 Ohio Northern 62
#7 Mount Union 56, #2 Capital 95
Pairings for the OAC Semifinals, to be held Friday at John Carroll's DeCarlo Varsity Center:
#3 Ohio Northern vs. #2 Capital, 6 p.m.
#5 Muskingum vs. #1 John Carroll, 8 p.m.
Both Capital and JCU swept their opponents during the regular season, though none of those games were blowouts.
JCU now has a 17-game winning streak :o and is unbeaten at home this year.
NEWMAC tourney will resume on Saturday with WPI hosting the semifinals and finals.
In the quarterfinals, #2 MIT beat #7 CGA, #6 Babson beat #3 Wheaton, and #4 Springfield beat #5 Clark tonight.
Lineup for Saturday is as follows (NEWMAC does not re-seed):
#6 Babson vs. #2 MIT
#4 Springfield vs. #1 WPI
This might have already been stated, but the NWC tourney starts up tomorrow with Linfield heading to Whitworth and Lewis & Clark coming to Puget Sound. Puget Sound is looking for its 19th straight win.
Speaking of Cindergeorges', I think this is tops so far, as the 8th, 7th, 5th, and 3rd seeds advanced in the SUNYAC tournament quarterfinals on Tuesday, #8 Brockport took down #1 Geneseo, #7 Cortland beat #2 Buffalo St. #3 Oswego held serve and beat #6 Potsdam while #4 Oneonta lost to #5 Fredonia. Semifinals tonight at highest remaining seed, #3 Oswego, who takes on #8 Brockport. Cortland vs Fredonia in 1st semifinal. If Brockport or Cortland get the AQ they would enter the NCAA's with a 14-14 record. Lots of parity in the conference this year as 4 teams finished tied for 1st with an 11-5 record.
Fortunately for Pool C hopefuls the upsets won't affect them as the SUNYAC was only going to get the AQ anyway.
MIT plays Springfield tomorrow at WPI for the NEWMAC Pool A bid.
MIAA final
(2) Hope 69
(1) Calvin 59
I am sure that is posted somewhere near here, but what time and what channel is the Mens selection show on tomorrow?
Not on TV, only on the Internet.
11:00 and 11:30 ET tomorrow for the selection shows.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 01:10:44 PM
Not on TV, only on the Internet.
11:00 and 11:30 ET tomorrow for the selection shows.
Thanks Pat. Will that be just on D3hoops or others as well, just concerned about bandwidth...and work schedules of course.
Looks like MIT will get it done today. A little over 2 minutes left to play against Springfield.
Bartolotta carried the scoring for must of the game (he has 35 points with a couple minutes to play). MIT cruising now up 69-48.
It's on NCAAsports.com, not D3Hoops.com. You may need to download Microsoft Silverlight to see it so I recommend doing that ahead of time.
Bartolotta finishes with 37 for MIT.
MIT wins 76-50. They will represent the NEWMAC in the NCAAs with the Pool A bid.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 01, 2009, 04:01:06 PM
It's on NCAAsports.com, not D3Hoops.com. You may need to download Microsoft Silverlight to see it so I recommend doing that ahead of time.
They'll have the video and we'll simulcast audio for those concerned about bandwidth at work. :)
But, of course, we'll have the link.
Personally, I would never think of stealing company time for something like a basketball tournament, but I understand that others may not have my high ethical standards. ;)
2009 DIVISION III MEN'S BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIP Information
http://www.ncaa.com/champ/m-baskbl-d3-champ.html
First Round (5) March 5, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
Second-Round (5) March 7, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
First & Second Rounds (11) March 6-7, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
Sectionals (4) March 13-14, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
Finals March 20-21, 2009
Host: Salem Civic Center and ODAC
Salem, VA
Quote from: T990 on March 01, 2009, 06:46:54 PM
2009 DIVISION III MEN'S BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIP Information
http://www.ncaa.com/champ/m-baskbl-d3-champ.html
First Round (5) March 5, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
Second-Round (5) March 7, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
First & Second Rounds (11) March 6-7, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
Sectionals (4) March 13-14, 2009
Sites TBD and will be held on campus
Finals March 20-21, 2009
Host: Salem Civic Center and ODAC
Salem, VA
Hopefully, this year the process will go smoothly without any mistakes on the part of the com...
...hey...wait a sec...FIVE Thursday games?
...that's the wrong number of byes. (https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tamemymind.com%2Fblog%2Fimages2007%2Fsmiley-bangheadonwall-yellow.gif&hash=96596b7c9870cfa1dbbcf0f047426cb645b0c723)
Oh man!
So, looking at the projections, I have yet another question (this one regarding my Wash.U. Bears). I pasted the projections below, so you can refer to them with ease when answering my questions.
My question: Is there a rule against teams from the same conference competing in first or second round play? If not, then why not send Elmhurst to Wash.U. and Platteville to Stevens Point? Travel-wise, it'd make a lot more sense and it would also make more sense with respect to competitive balance, though obviously we know the committee cares very little, if at all, about that. Bottom line: Wash.U. is getting screwed by these pairings. Fontbonne is actually pretty good this year.
Another possibility: Might Whitworth be sent to STL because STL is more of a hub than the twin cities? Or is it? I just know that Whit got sent to STL two years ago.
BRACKET 7
1 Wheaton (Ill.)
2 Washington U.
3 UW-Platteville
4 Lawrence
5 Buena Vista
6 Maryville (Tenn.)
7 Fontbonne
BYE
Bye handed out here on merit. Wheaton awaits Lawrence or BVU.
BRACKET 8
1 St. Thomas
2 UW-Stevens Point
3 Elmhurst
4 Puget Sound
5 Whitworth
6 Cornell
7 Aurora
BYE
We couldn't avoid the NWC rematch without incurring two flights to UT-Dallas.
I have a question. Would a possible west coast bracket be a 4 team pod at Puget Sound of them, Whitworth, CMS and a random team like Cornell? Two flights just like what would be needed in whatever senario that plays out.
Quote from: Marty Peretz on March 01, 2009, 11:12:55 PM
My question: Is there a rule against teams from the same conference competing in first or second round play?
Thus spake the NCAA (emphasis added):
Quote from: NCAA Men's BB Championship Handbook pp. 16fPairings and Site Selection
Once automatic qualifiers are identified and the Pools B and C teams are selected, the
following guidelines should be followed:
• Teams will be grouped in clusters according to natural geographic proximity. Teams
will then be paired according to geographic proximity. A team may be moved to
numerically balance the bracket if geographic proximity is maintained. Teams should
be paired and eligible sites should be selected according to geographic proximity
(within 500 miles).
• Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional selection criteria.
However, geographic proximity takes precedence over seeding.
• Teams from the same conference do not have to play one another in the first round as
long as geographic proximity is maintained.
• The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria (and after a review of the
submitted host materials) will be selected as the host institution, provided geographic
proximity is maintained.
OxyBob likes to refer to the clause I have highlighted as the "SCIAC Exception," because pretty much whenever the SCIAC (or the NWC) gets two teams in, they're going to face off in round 1, since "geographic proximity" can't otherwise be maintained. That's not going to be the case for two WIAC teams.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 01, 2009, 04:01:06 PM
It's on NCAAsports.com, not D3Hoops.com. You may need to download Microsoft Silverlight to see it so I recommend doing that ahead of time.
They'll have the video and we'll simulcast audio for those concerned about bandwidth at work. :)
But, of course, we'll have the link.
Fortunately I will be at home at that time...of course, I will be at work when the 'corrections' come out later (lol)!
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 01, 2009, 11:52:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 01, 2009, 04:01:06 PM
It's on NCAAsports.com, not D3Hoops.com. You may need to download Microsoft Silverlight to see it so I recommend doing that ahead of time.
They'll have the video and we'll simulcast audio for those concerned about bandwidth at work. :)
But, of course, we'll have the link.
Fortunately I will be at home at that time...of course, I will be at work when the 'corrections' come out later (lol)!
:D ROTFLMAO! +1! :)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 12:26:18 AM
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 01, 2009, 11:52:49 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 01, 2009, 04:24:00 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 01, 2009, 04:01:06 PM
It's on NCAAsports.com, not D3Hoops.com. You may need to download Microsoft Silverlight to see it so I recommend doing that ahead of time.
They'll have the video and we'll simulcast audio for those concerned about bandwidth at work. :)
But, of course, we'll have the link.
Fortunately I will be at home at that time...of course, I will be at work when the 'corrections' come out later (lol)!
:D ROTFLMAO! +1! :)
Now THAT is funny!!!
I didn't know where to ask this, so I'll try here. Is it possible that any of the NCAA games will have online video or do the NCAA regs prevent that?
Hope played Calvin in the second round two years ago.
The year before that there was a live streaming video of the Hope/Wittenberg tourney game.
Loving the ball rack and the pipe and drape on the selection show.
Good show. I appreciate the clips and mini bios.
BRACKET
http://www.d3boards.com/playoffs/mbbbracket2009.pdf
Am I reading that right... all first round games except 4 will be on Friday? Is that how it usually is?
Hamilton didnt get in
Can we say that the sectional with Wash U, St. Thomas, Puget Sound, Wheaton, Elmhurst, UWSP, UW-Platteville, and UW-Whitewater is going to be ridiculous? Whoever comes out of that one will definitely deserve it!
Quote from: jcu_fan on March 02, 2009, 11:33:32 AM
Am I reading that right... all first round games except 4 will be on Friday? Is that how it usually is?
Yes, the 3-team pods play Thursday-Saturday because Thursday's winner needs a travel day to get to the site of Saturday's game.
Quote from: jcu_fan on March 02, 2009, 11:33:32 AM
Am I reading that right... all first round games except 4 will be on Friday? Is that how it usually is?
The four-team regionals will be played at one site (such as JCU) on Friday and Saturday. There are also four three-team regionals (and four first-round byes), with the first round game played at one site and the second round game at another (on the campus of the team receiving the bye.) To allow the first round winner time to travel to the second round site, those first round games are played on Thursday.
First thing I did when I woke up...straight to the barckets :)
Point Special,
Did I not say that UPS and UW-SP would be slotted for a rematch in the sweet 16? Just like clockwork. :D
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:15:12 PM
Point Special,
Did I not say that UPS and UW-SP would be slotted for a rematch in the sweet 16? Just like clockwork. :D
Gonna be very unlikely it will be in Tacoma again.
Quote from: jagluski on March 02, 2009, 11:41:16 AM
Can we say that the sectional with Wash U, St. Thomas, Puget Sound, Wheaton, Elmhurst, UWSP, UW-Platteville, and UW-Whitewater is going to be ridiculous? Whoever comes out of that one will definitely deserve it!
This is an absolutely brutal bracket...
One of the toughest, if not the toughest, in the history of the tournament.
Pat - Do you recall a tougher bracket since D-3 Hoops started??
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 02, 2009, 12:18:56 PM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:15:12 PM
Point Special,
Did I not say that UPS and UW-SP would be slotted for a rematch in the sweet 16? Just like clockwork. :D
Gonna be very unlikely it will be in Tacoma again.
Nope I was talking about when UPS went to UW-SP the following year...we have played each other a few times :-\
The bracket is more understandable than WashU having to travel to Elmhurst for the second time this year.
Why isn't UT-Dallas hosting their second-round game? Is it a facilities issue? In the case of geographic byes, I know some have suggested that it is fairer for the team with the bye to have to travel for the second-round game, but I can't believe that's the NCAA's thinking here--especially since Trinity isn't guaranteed to even be playing in that second-round game.
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 02, 2009, 01:16:25 PM
The bracket is more understandable than WashU having to travel to Elmhurst for the second time this year.
The Washington women are hosting this weekend, women have priority in the 1st and 2nd rounds in odd years. Probably the reason the game is at Elmhurst.
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2009, 01:19:46 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 02, 2009, 01:16:25 PM
The bracket is more understandable than WashU having to travel to Elmhurst for the second time this year.
The Washington women are hosting this weekend, women have priority in the 1st and 2nd rounds in odd years. Probably the reason the game is at Elmhurst.
Interesting...thanks sac, I never knew that!
Quote from: ephoops on March 02, 2009, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: jagluski on March 02, 2009, 11:41:16 AM
Can we say that the sectional with Wash U, St. Thomas, Puget Sound, Wheaton, Elmhurst, UWSP, UW-Platteville, and UW-Whitewater is going to be ridiculous? Whoever comes out of that one will definitely deserve it!
This is an absolutely brutal bracket...
One of the toughest, if not the toughest, in the history of the tournament.
Pat - Do you recall a tougher bracket since D-3 Hoops started??
Yes, the
Calvin bracket (http://www.d3hoops.com/archives/mncaa00.htm) in 2000 was a tough one! #1 - #4 all funneling into Calvin. Let's compare.
Sectional Finals
Salem State 75, Penn State-Behrend 69
UW-Eau Claire 60, UW-Stevens Point 58
Calvin 115, McMurry 79Franklin & Marshall 85, Catholic 74
Sectional Semifinals
Salem State 70, Springfield 69
Penn State-Behrend 58, Cortland State 52
UW-Eau Claire 82, Buena Vista 75 (OT)
UW-Stevens Point 63, Chicago 49
McMurry 112, Maryville (Tenn.) 95
Calvin 82, Wooster 53Catholic 57, William Paterson 52
Franklin & Marshall 76, Rowan 72
Second Round
Springfield 75, Williams 74
Salem State 81, Amherst 75
Penn State-Behrend 80, Rochester Tech 65
Cortland State 60, Hamilton 55
Buena Vista 69, St. Thomas 66
UW-Eau Claire 74, Carthage 62
UW-Stevens Point 72, Lewis & Clark 68
Chicago 75, Ripon 68
McMurry 111, Pomona-Pitzer 76
Maryville (Tenn.) 76, Hampden-Sydney 75
Wooster 82, Ohio Northern 71
Calvin 92, Franklin 90 (OT)William Paterson 60, Scranton 58 (OT)
Catholic 65, Christopher Newport 64
Rowan 80, Roanoke 74
Franklin & Marshall 65, Widener 62
First Round
Springfield 80, Eastern Connecticut St. 75
Amherst 79, Western New England 77
Penn State-Behrend 64, Alvernia 60
Hamilton 85, Endicott 68
St. Thomas 80, Nebraska Wesleyan 58
UW-Eau Claire 72, Concordia (Wis.) 54
Lewis & Clark 77, Pacific 75
Ripon 58, St. John's 55
Pomona-Pitzer 65, Trinity 62
Maryville (Tenn.) 69, Savannah Art & Design 54
Ohio Northern 74, Benedictine 66
Franklin 81, Webster 50Scranton 78, Mt. St. Mary 66
Christopher Newport 68, Mississippi College 61
Roanoke 83, Marymount 72 (OT)
Franklin & Marshall 69, Baruch 46
Week 13 Top 25 (http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/00/week13.htm)
Quote1 Calvin (14) 25-2 613 2
2 Hampden-Sydney (11) 26-1 608 1
3 Wooster 25-2 571 3
4 McMurry 25-1 537 4
5 William Paterson 22-4 509 6
6 Christopher Newport 24-2 491 7
7 UW-Stevens Point 23-4 478 9
8 Chicago 22-3 430 11
9 Trinity (Texas) 23-2 409 12
I can't believe they did that in the brackets. Do they not know they can move some of these schools around?
I'm pretty sure I'll consider whoever comes out of that bracket the champion whether they win in Salem or not.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 01:39:32 PM
Calvin 115, McMurry 79
Calvin 82, Wooster 53
Week 13 Top 25 (http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/00/week13.htm)
Quote1 Calvin (14) 25-2 613 2
2 Hampden-Sydney (11) 26-1 608 1
3 Wooster 25-2 571 3
4 McMurry 25-1 537 4
5 William Paterson 22-4 509 6
6 Christopher Newport 24-2 491 7
7 UW-Stevens Point 23-4 478 9
8 Chicago 22-3 430 11
9 Trinity (Texas) 23-2 409 12
The reader might take notice how easily Calvin handled the supposed #3 and #4 teams at that time.
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2009, 01:54:06 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 01:39:32 PM
Calvin 115, McMurry 79
Calvin 82, Wooster 53
Week 13 Top 25 (http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/00/week13.htm)
Quote1 Calvin (14) 25-2 613 2
2 Hampden-Sydney (11) 26-1 608 1
3 Wooster 25-2 571 3
4 McMurry 25-1 537 4
5 William Paterson 22-4 509 6
6 Christopher Newport 24-2 491 7
7 UW-Stevens Point 23-4 478 9
8 Chicago 22-3 430 11
9 Trinity (Texas) 23-2 409 12
The reader might take notice how easily Calvin handled the supposed #3 and #4 teams at that time.
There was definitely a home court advantage.
Five of the top 9 in a 48 team field.
I've seen Caltech games that were more competitive than that Wooster/Calvin game.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2009, 01:39:32 PM
Quote from: ephoops on March 02, 2009, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: jagluski on March 02, 2009, 11:41:16 AM
Can we say that the sectional with Wash U, St. Thomas, Puget Sound, Wheaton, Elmhurst, UWSP, UW-Platteville, and UW-Whitewater is going to be ridiculous? Whoever comes out of that one will definitely deserve it!
This is an absolutely brutal bracket...
One of the toughest, if not the toughest, in the history of the tournament.
Pat - Do you recall a tougher bracket since D-3 Hoops started??
Yes, the Calvin bracket (http://www.d3hoops.com/archives/mncaa00.htm) in 2000 was a tough one! #1 - #4 all funneling into Calvin. Let's compare.
Sectional Finals
Salem State 75, Penn State-Behrend 69
UW-Eau Claire 60, UW-Stevens Point 58
Calvin 115, McMurry 79
Franklin & Marshall 85, Catholic 74
Sectional Semifinals
Salem State 70, Springfield 69
Penn State-Behrend 58, Cortland State 52
UW-Eau Claire 82, Buena Vista 75 (OT)
UW-Stevens Point 63, Chicago 49
McMurry 112, Maryville (Tenn.) 95
Calvin 82, Wooster 53
Catholic 57, William Paterson 52
Franklin & Marshall 76, Rowan 72
Second Round
Springfield 75, Williams 74
Salem State 81, Amherst 75
Penn State-Behrend 80, Rochester Tech 65
Cortland State 60, Hamilton 55
Buena Vista 69, St. Thomas 66
UW-Eau Claire 74, Carthage 62
UW-Stevens Point 72, Lewis & Clark 68
Chicago 75, Ripon 68
McMurry 111, Pomona-Pitzer 76
Maryville (Tenn.) 76, Hampden-Sydney 75
Wooster 82, Ohio Northern 71
Calvin 92, Franklin 90 (OT)
William Paterson 60, Scranton 58 (OT)
Catholic 65, Christopher Newport 64
Rowan 80, Roanoke 74
Franklin & Marshall 65, Widener 62
First Round
Springfield 80, Eastern Connecticut St. 75
Amherst 79, Western New England 77
Penn State-Behrend 64, Alvernia 60
Hamilton 85, Endicott 68
St. Thomas 80, Nebraska Wesleyan 58
UW-Eau Claire 72, Concordia (Wis.) 54
Lewis & Clark 77, Pacific 75
Ripon 58, St. John's 55
Pomona-Pitzer 65, Trinity 62
Maryville (Tenn.) 69, Savannah Art & Design 54
Ohio Northern 74, Benedictine 66
Franklin 81, Webster 50
Scranton 78, Mt. St. Mary 66
Christopher Newport 68, Mississippi College 61
Roanoke 83, Marymount 72 (OT)
Franklin & Marshall 69, Baruch 46
Week 13 Top 25 (http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/00/week13.htm)
Quote1 Calvin (14) 25-2 613 2
2 Hampden-Sydney (11) 26-1 608 1
3 Wooster 25-2 571 3
4 McMurry 25-1 537 4
5 William Paterson 22-4 509 6
6 Christopher Newport 24-2 491 7
7 UW-Stevens Point 23-4 478 9
8 Chicago 22-3 430 11
9 Trinity (Texas) 23-2 409 12
Through games of Feb. 22, 2009
1 St. Thomas (24) 25-0 624 1
2 Washington U. (1) 22-2 554 2
3 Puget Sound 23-2 542 6
4 Wheaton (Ill.) 22-3 517 7
5 UW-Platteville 21-4 491 4
6 UW-Stevens Point 21-4 487 5
7 UW-Whitewater 21-4 486 20 Elmhurst 19-6 151 21
25 Lawrence 16-6 36 —
29 Whitworth 19-5 18
37 Claremont-MS 18-6 2
I dunno, but this one is mighty impressive, top 7 D3Hoops top 25 matches up more than favorably with that year. ;)
Yep! ;)
My next question is for the mathematicians.
How much proximity effect in Massey's Ratings (MOV) is there to the schools in that region?
The Upper part of the Midwest and the Minnesota/Wisconsin West are a proximity grouping of about 12-15% of the entire population of schools.
I've noticed that Massey also seems to trend towards rewarding schools who play outside D3. It seems like the NWC, the California schools, and even a MW school like Grinnell get some help in their numbers because of cross-division play.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 02, 2009, 02:52:34 PM
I've noticed that Massey also seems to trend towards rewarding schools who play outside D3. It seems like the NWC, the California schools, and even a MW school like Grinnell get some help in their numbers because of cross-division play.
Currently Massey's ratings can't handle the exhibition/non-exhibiton games between two divisions where one can count it as a game, one doesn't. I don't feel the D3 numbers are as accurate as they used to be because of this fact.
An example Ferris State vs Calvin........this game counts for Ferris, does not count for Calvin yet the result is used in calculating Calvin's massey rating.
Over the years I've also found many errors in score reports, esp in the NAIA schools.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 02, 2009, 01:17:04 PM
Why isn't UT-Dallas hosting their second-round game? Is it a facilities issue? In the case of geographic byes, I know some have suggested that it is fairer for the team with the bye to have to travel for the second-round game, but I can't believe that's the NCAA's thinking here--especially since Trinity isn't guaranteed to even be playing in that second-round game.
UT-Dallas rented out their facility for this weekend for whatever reason so they can't host at all this weekend... and I can't imagine should they win through that they would be hosting next weekend.
Quote from: ephoops on March 02, 2009, 12:32:33 PM
Quote from: jagluski on March 02, 2009, 11:41:16 AM
Can we say that the sectional with Wash U, St. Thomas, Puget Sound, Wheaton, Elmhurst, UWSP, UW-Platteville, and UW-Whitewater is going to be ridiculous? Whoever comes out of that one will definitely deserve it!
This is an absolutely brutal bracket...
One of the toughest, if not the toughest, in the history of the tournament.
Pat - Do you recall a tougher bracket since D-3 Hoops started??
I can suggest another tough bracket. Someone correct me if I am wrong but the intro to Hoopsville has a section with "This bracket is ridiculous - this could be a final four" I beleive they are refering to a bracket from the 2005 tournament that included JCU (who had been to the final four the year before), Wittenberg (Russ and Borchers - who would go to the final four the next year), Wooster (Cooper and Port - who would go to the final four two years later), Calvin (who did go to the final four), Baldwin Wallace (with the All American Davis brothers), Albion (Brandon Crawford, Travis DePree, Mike Thomas) plus perennial contenders Wheaton, Maryville (TN) and Mississippi College. And this was when the tournament had 48 teams, 12 per bracket (count 9 in my list)
goscots - I believe you are right on the year and the bracket!
Yup. And the link between that tough bracket and this years, goscots, is that Wheaton had an All-CCIW second-team freshman guard named Kent Raymond on that 2004-05 team. That team bowed out to Calvin in the first round on a last-second six-footer in the lane by Dan Aultman of the Knights.
So, when is the tournament pool going to be up? I'm ready to pick my teams (horribly, if history holds).
It was up about seven hours ago. On the front page, a big blue bold paragraph in the main article.
The tough west region bracket makes it really tough to be a homer and pick Puget Sound to the final four...what a dilemma. ??? :D
If I counted right there are 40 teams that were ranked or received votes in the lates D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll. 35 of the 40 made it into the tourney.
Lower left ranked and receiving votes - 12/15 (10 top 25)
Upper left ranked and receiving votes - 11/15 (7 top 25)
Upper right ranked and receiving votes - 6/15 (5 top 25)
Lower right ranked and receiving votes - 6/15 (2 top 25)
Best case scenario for final four #1 St. Thomas, #6 Richard Stockton, #10 John Carroll, #12 Ithaca
Final Four in 2008 - #1 Hope, #3 Amherst, #11 Wash U, #18 Ursinus
Final Four in 2007 - #2 Wooster, #4 Virginia Wesleyan, #6 Amherst, #8 Wash U
Final Four in 2006 - #3 Wittenberg, #4 Amherst, #7 Virginia Wesleyan, #11 Illinois Wesleyan
Final Four in 2005 - #1 UW-Steven's Point, #14 Calvin, #19 York (PA), #21 Rochester
I guess as long as the "bracket of death" has one of its' top ranked teams make it to the final four and the other brackets send their top ranked teams, 2009 won't look much different than the past few years.
(added '05 and '06) and obviously I hoping that #2 Wash U makes it to Salem!
Quote from: WashU33Fan on March 03, 2009, 08:44:55 AM
If I counted right there are 40 teams that were ranked or received votes in the lates D3Hoops.com Top 25 poll. 35 of the 40 made it into the tourney.
Lower left ranked and receiving votes - 12/15 (10 top 25)
Upper left ranked and receiving votes - 11/15 (7 top 25)
Upper right ranked and receiving votes - 6/15 (5 top 25)
Lower right ranked and receiving votes - 6/15 (2 top 25)
Best case scenario for final four #1 St. Thomas, #6 Richard Stockton, #10 John Carroll, #12 Ithaca
Final Four in 2008 - #1 Hope, #3 Amherst, #11 Wash U, #18 Ursinus
Final Four in 2007 - #2 Wooster, #4 Virginia Wesleyan, #6 Amherst, #8 Wash U
I guess as long as the "bracket of death" has one of its top ranked teams make it to the final four and the other brackets send their top ranked teams, 2009 won't look much different than the past couple of years.
That's a very interesting analysis. Maybe all of us fans of teams in the lower left quadrant should stop complaining (at least, the NCAA would like that)...
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:15:12 PM
Point Special,
Did I not say that UPS and UW-SP would be slotted for a rematch in the sweet 16? Just like clockwork. :D
Remarkable, really... especially because it could very easily could have (and arguably should have...) been slotted in such a way that they wouldn't match up until the Elite 8.
Point has the IIAC champ, then the undefeated #1 St. Thomas Tommies (MIAC conf champ and tourney champ) on their own home floor, then the one-loss-to-D3 competition UPS Loggers, then either Wheaton, Wash U, Lawrence (all conference champs and conf tourney champs, Wash U excepted), or WIAC foes Platteville or Whitewater in the Elite 8. Tough, tough road for a conference champ and conf tourney champ... and likely all on the road too!
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 03, 2009, 10:06:20 AM
Quote from: LogShow on March 02, 2009, 12:15:12 PM
Point Special,
Did I not say that UPS and UW-SP would be slotted for a rematch in the sweet 16? Just like clockwork. :D
Remarkable, really... especially because it could very easily could have (and arguably should have...) been slotted in such a way that they wouldn't match up until the Elite 8.
Point has the IIAC champ, then the undefeated #1 St. Thomas Tommies (MIAC conf champ and tourney champ) on their own home floor, then the one-loss-to-D3 competition UPS Loggers, then either Wheaton, Wash U, Lawrence (all conference champs and conf tourney champs, Wash U excepted), or WIAC foes Platteville or Whitewater in the Elite 8. Tough, tough road for a conference champ and conf tourney champ... and likely all on the road too!
Where is Kaslow and Bennett when you need them? :D ;D
They are here (http://uwgbathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/kalsow_jason00.html) and here (http://www.fgcuathletics.com/staff/directory/23/177/).
There are only three D3 member schools in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; each sponsors both men's and women's basketball. Of those six squads, five have qualified for the NCAA tournament, all via Pool A. Those five all also won their conference's regular season championships (Transylvania men and women won the HCAC, Thomas More men and women won the President's, and Centre men won the SCAC East Div.) The only Kentucky squad that failed to make the tournament, the Centre women, finished with a record of 18-9. Not bad.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 03, 2009, 01:14:44 PM
There are only three D3 member schools in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; each sponsors both men's and women's basketball. Of those six squads, five have qualified for the NCAA tournament, all via Pool A. Those five all also won their conference's regular season championships (Transylvania men and women won the HCAC, Thomas More men and women won the President's, and Centre men won the SCAC East Div.) The only Kentucky squad that failed to make the tournament, the Centre women, finished with a record of 18-9. Not bad.
Meanwhile, the hoops-mad state of Indiana, which has a grand total of ten D3 institutions sponsoring eighteen basketball teams (one Indiana school, Wabash, is men only, and another, St. Mary's IN, is women only), is suffering from a drought this year. There are no men's teams from Indiana in the big dance, and only one women's team (DePauw) representing the Hoosier State on the distaff side.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 03, 2009, 03:53:34 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 03, 2009, 01:14:44 PM
There are only three D3 member schools in the Commonwealth of Kentucky; each sponsors both men's and women's basketball. Of those six squads, five have qualified for the NCAA tournament, all via Pool A. Those five all also won their conference's regular season championships (Transylvania men and women won the HCAC, Thomas More men and women won the President's, and Centre men won the SCAC East Div.) The only Kentucky squad that failed to make the tournament, the Centre women, finished with a record of 18-9. Not bad.
Meanwhile, the hoops-mad state of Indiana, which has a grand total of ten D3 institutions sponsoring eighteen basketball teams (one Indiana school, Wabash, is men only, and another, St. Mary's IN, is women only), is suffering from a drought this year. There are no men's teams from Indiana in the big dance, and only one women's team (DePauw) representing the Hoosier State on the distaff side.
They'll make up for it with several teams in the NAIA tournaments.
As many as 7 could make the men's field in NAIA II.
All this talk about the 'Bracket of Death' and how all the best teams are consistently from one area of the country has gotten me thinking. The current front page seems to suggest that it would be surprising if Middlebury held its own in the final four if not for the bad luck 'bracket of death' teams have had in recent when it actually came to winning the tournament.
Why is it that highly-ranked, heavy favorites haven't fared so well in recent final fours?
One suggestion: D3hoops.com tends to consistently over-estimate teams from a certain area of the country.
Take the all-decade team, a decent indication of how d3hoops.com ranked players, if not teams, over time.
I would make the following assertions:
There is a high degree of geographical concentration of where the honored players played:
11/20 (55%) of players that made the 1st-4th Team All-Decade played in either Wisconsin or Illinois.
14/20 (70%) of players that made the 1st-4th Team All-Decade played in Wisconsin, Illinois or Pennslyvania.
12/20 (60%) of players that made the 1st-4th Team All-Decade played in either the West or Midwest region.
15/20 (75%) of players that made the 1st-4th Team All-Decade played in the West, Midwest, or Mid-Atlantic region.
10/20 (50%) of players that made the 1st-4th Team All-Decade played in one of just two conferences: the WIAC or CCIW.
Having All-Decade players did not necessarily translate into having successful teams, especially if those players played in Illinois, Wisconsin or Pennslyvania:
2/8 (25%) of the championship teams from the decade came from the CCIW or WIAC (which account for 50% of the represented players), played in Illinios, Wiscosin, or Pennsylvania (which account for 70% of the represented players); or played in the West, Midwest or Mid-Atlantic regions (which account for 75% of represented players).
8/20 (40%) of players that made the 1st-4th Team All-Decade came from one of the five represented teams that played in Illinois or Pennslyvania. None of these five teams ever won a title or even made the finals, and only one team ever made the Final Four (Illinois Wesleyan)
8/16 (50%) - The number of teams represented on the list that never made a final four during the decade. Of these 8 teams, 7 play in Wisconsin, Illinois or Pennslyvania, and the eighth (Augsburg) is in the West region.
2/12 (17%) - The % of teams represented on the list from the West, Mid-West or Mid-Atlantic regions that appeared in multiple Final Fours during the decade
3/4 (75%) - The % of teams represented on the list from regions other than the West, Mid-West or Mid-Atlantic that appeared in mutliple final fours during the decade.
2/12 (17%) - The % of teams represnted on the list the West, Mid-West or Mid-Atlantic regions that won a title during the decade.
3/4 (75%) - The % of teams represented on the list from regions other than the West, Mid-West or Mid-Atlantic that won a title during the decade.
Successful teams from the West or Midwest region were more likely to place a player on the All-Decade Team than teams from other regions.
9/11 (82%) - The % of final four teams hailing from the West or Midwest Regions that placed a player on the All-Decade list.
7/22 (32%) - The % of final four teams hailing from regions other than the West or Midwest that placed a player on the All-Decade list.
3/3 (100%) - The % of teams appearing in multiple final fours and hailing from the West or Midwest Regions that placed a player on the All-Decade list.
3/6 (50%) - The % of teams appearing in multiple final fours and hailing from regions other than the West or Midwest that placed a player on the All-Decade list.
2/2 (100%) - The % of championship teams hailing from the West or Midwest Regions that placed a player on the All-Decade list.
3/6 (50%) - The % of championship teams hailing from regions other than the West or Midwest that placed a player on the All-Decade list.
Given these statisitics, it seems possible that there may be some degree of bias on d3hoops.com towards teams and players from the West, Mid-West, and to a lesser degree the Mid-Atlantic regions, the CCIW and WIAC, and the states of Wisconsin, Illinois or Pennsylvania.
If this is the case, then that bias would impact the rankings, and highly-ranked teams from those regions might not perform as well as the rankings would predict against less-highly-ranked schools from other regions. This seems to be the phenomen that has been observed when the front page talks about teams from the toughest bracket not dominating the final four representatives from other brackets. Maybe we shouldn't be so surprised if Middlebury (or another non-bottom-left-of-the-bracket team) ends up winning a title the way Va Wes, Amherst and Williams have done in recent history.
Interesting thought... but you overlook a couple of huge, huge points. Part of the reason why there are so many more non-West/Midwest teams that make the final four in multiple years is that the competition is much higher in those areas. Whereas there may be 1 or 2 good teams in, say, the Northeast, there could be 8 in the West and Midwest, and due to geographic constraints, the possibility that the West and Midwest get split up are very small. Look at 2004. Amherst and Williams, 60 miles away, end up in different brackets and meet in the final four. Stevens Point and Lawrence are also about 60 miles away... and they met in the Elite 8 in '04 and the second round in '05. Also in '04 and '05, Stevens Point met Puget Sound in the Sweet 16. In '03 and '04, Point met Gustavus Adolphus in the second round. Last year, Point went to St. Thomas with a Chicago-area team and an IIAC team. This year, Point is going to St. Thomas, with a Chicago-area team and an IIAC team.
If you take '03 and '04 as prime examples, the winner of the UWSP/Gustavus Adolphus game made it to the National Championship game, with both teams "upset" the other squad on their home court. What if GAC and Point had been split up into different brackets? It seems plausible that they would have both made the Final Four, both years. And there's a chance that Williams would have beaten them both. Williams was just that good. But if you look at the rankings, Williams was ranked high all year long. And there's nothing that says Middlebury won't win it this year. But they also won't play the same calibre teams to get to Salem.
I don't think Pat Maloney was on the that all-decade team. That seems fair. He was the best player on our title team but I cannot think he was one of the best players of an entire decade in all of D3.
Oh, that's Catholic I'm talking about. Sorry!
Catholic had an outstanding player but we won because we were a truly balanced team. It takes more than one player to win a title but I bet outstanding players can get their teams close to titles all by themselves.
Question to someone who knows..... The current scoreboard on these pages shows friday night first round games.... less than half of them have links indicating there will be either live stats, audio or video.....
Is the scoreboard the ultimate indication of those links, or do some schools not contact D3hoops, or have not yet contacted d3hoops, and there are actully more of the games that will be available Friday night.....
Trying to decide whether to stay home, or travel.....
http://elmhurst.edu/~athletic/Home/M-Basket/09Regional/ncaabasketballregional.html
The Wash U v. Lawrence and Elmhurst v. W-Whitewater games do not have links on the D3Hoops.com scoreboard page but the website set up by Elmhurst indicates live stats and audio links for both games.
I think it was addressed somewhere that D3hoops.com relies on the schools themselves to provide the information regarding live stats, audio and video that may be available.
Thanks washu33 aka AT fan - that's an immediate indication that there will be more out there than is indicated on the scoreboard page - this might be a good place for others to post those types of links.....
No problem HopeFan!
http://athletics.wheaton.edu/sports/2009/3/1/MBB_NCAA1.aspx
Platteville v. Hope
Wheaton v. Fontbonne
http://www.capital.edu/24228/
Wooster v. Gettsburg
Thomas More v. Capital
Quote from: hopefan on March 05, 2009, 09:50:40 AM
Question to someone who knows..... The current scoreboard on these pages shows friday night first round games.... less than half of them have links indicating there will be either live stats, audio or video.....
Is the scoreboard the ultimate indication of those links, or do some schools not contact D3hoops, or have not yet contacted d3hoops, and there are actully more of the games that will be available Friday night.....
Trying to decide whether to stay home, or travel.....
There will be more. Between now and Friday we will finish those up. My Tuesday and Wednesday is spent arranging for our audio broadcasts, writing the tournament previews and other things, like adding the missing game times and the like.
We will have all the links on the scoreboard. You can post them here if you like but we'll have them out front too. When we get down to 40-some games in a day it's a little easier to pick up links the schools haven't added. For example, those are our own broadcasts at Elmhurst -- you will definitely find them on our site. :)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2009, 11:01:54 AM
Quote from: hopefan on March 05, 2009, 09:50:40 AM
Question to someone who knows..... The current scoreboard on these pages shows friday night first round games.... less than half of them have links indicating there will be either live stats, audio or video.....
Is the scoreboard the ultimate indication of those links, or do some schools not contact D3hoops, or have not yet contacted d3hoops, and there are actully more of the games that will be available Friday night.....
Trying to decide whether to stay home, or travel.....
There will be more. Between now and Friday we will finish those up. My Tuesday and Wednesday is spent arranging for our audio broadcasts, writing the tournament previews and other things, like adding the missing game times and the like.
We will have all the links on the scoreboard. You can post them here if you like but we'll have them out front too. When we get down to 40-some games in a day it's a little easier to pick up links the schools haven't added. For example, those are our own broadcasts at Elmhurst -- you will definitely find them on our site. :)
Thanks Mr. Coleman for all that you folks do!
Sure thing. Elmhurst/Whitewater does have an audio link on the scoreboard page already, by the way.
Thanks Pat - you have now tipped me on the side of the fence of surfing the net rather than traveling to Chicago - do you by any chance know if there is a broadcast of RPI - Stockton ????
It's on the list. Dave McHugh for D3hoopsNet/NCAA.com on the call.
This question is for the all knowing all important Mr Coleman...
In your tourney preview for the St Thomas bracket, you pick Whitworth as the Cinderella. I am curious as to why you picked them?
Because I figured that, among the unranked teams in the bracket, they had the best chance of winning a road game to advance to the Sweet 16.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2009, 01:32:33 PM
Because I figured that, among the unranked teams in the bracket, they had the best chance of winning a road game to advance to the Sweet 16.
Oh, that makes sense, thanks for the clarification. I think you are right...the Pirates should be able to beat the Loggers again...and advance...
ESPN coverage of the D3 tournament:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=darcy/090305
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index
There's a rumor that ESPN will do a TV piece on MIT basketball tonight on Sportscenter (?). [I don't know the details.]
Quote from: T990 on March 05, 2009, 03:06:38 PM
ESPN coverage of the D3 tournament:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=darcy/090305
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index
There's a rumor that ESPN will do a TV piece on MIT basketball tonight on Sportscenter (?). [I don't know the details.]
I hear the same rumor.
How abotu we quantify the Bracket of Death.
I took the 60 tournament participants along with my power rankings (based on D3 results only), and ran the round-by-round chances of each team.
This list is ranked by best chance of a NCAA title to worst chance (Husson shows 0, which is rounding of 1 in 1.5 million!).
For example, St. Thomas has a 94+% chance of getting out of their opener, a 63% chance of surviving the weekend, a 25% chance of getting to Salem, and a 15% chance of winning it all.
Bottom line, the Bracket of Death has at 50.5% chance of winning the Walnut and Bronze, better than the other three quadrants combined.
St. Thomas 0.9479 0.6311 0.3976 0.2534 0.2016 0.1548
Puget Sound 1.0000 0.7458 0.3568 0.2015 0.1487 0.1051
Wheaton (Ill.) 0.9414 0.6173 0.3705 0.1815 0.1333 0.0938
Richard Stockton 0.9327 0.6779 0.4559 0.2826 0.1753 0.0774
Ithaca 1.0000 0.6822 0.4208 0.2976 0.1712 0.0737
Middlebury 1.0000 0.6989 0.4501 0.2480 0.1442 0.0581
Washington U. 0.7911 0.4638 0.2357 0.1052 0.0734 0.0488
UW-Stevens Point 0.8092 0.3332 0.1731 0.0908 0.0639 0.0429
Mass-Dartmouth 0.7047 0.4653 0.2419 0.1630 0.0877 0.0346
Elms 0.8467 0.5815 0.2800 0.1478 0.0781 0.0276
John Carroll 0.7999 0.5057 0.2965 0.1653 0.0527 0.0272
Capital 0.8031 0.5336 0.2945 0.1646 0.0519 0.0267
UW-Platteville 0.7920 0.3383 0.1690 0.0659 0.0424 0.0259
Texas-Dallas 1.0000 0.5740 0.3185 0.1681 0.0485 0.0234
UW-Whitewater 0.5552 0.2785 0.1246 0.0482 0.0309 0.0188
Franklin and Marshall 0.7481 0.4527 0.2643 0.1107 0.0471 0.0138
Trinity (Texas) 0.7356 0.3587 0.1948 0.1005 0.0279 0.0132
Rhode Island College 0.6480 0.3654 0.1685 0.0770 0.0375 0.0119
Centre 0.6685 0.3531 0.1809 0.0914 0.0250 0.0116
Carnegie Mellon 0.8242 0.3979 0.2015 0.0962 0.0241 0.0106
Worcester Polytech 0.8754 0.3855 0.1541 0.0858 0.0359 0.0103
Transylvania 0.5436 0.2978 0.1501 0.0746 0.0199 0.0091
Elmhurst 0.4448 0.1998 0.0789 0.0265 0.0156 0.0087
SUNY-Farmingdale 0.5998 0.3169 0.1387 0.0602 0.0279 0.0083
Salem State 0.6133 0.3634 0.1959 0.0765 0.0304 0.0082
St. Joseph's (L.I.) 0.5595 0.1909 0.0877 0.0488 0.0204 0.0058
Widener 0.6987 0.3563 0.1802 0.0647 0.0236 0.0057
Whitworth 0.6665 0.1982 0.0564 0.0203 0.0110 0.0056
Amherst 0.6304 0.2196 0.1078 0.0466 0.0202 0.0055
Bridgewater State 0.6574 0.2283 0.1124 0.0451 0.0194 0.0052
Guilford 0.4564 0.2305 0.1065 0.0484 0.0112 0.0047
Brandeis 0.5882 0.2912 0.1500 0.0529 0.0190 0.0045
Wooster 0.5679 0.2426 0.1005 0.0423 0.0086 0.0033
DeSales 0.4405 0.1269 0.0511 0.0254 0.0092 0.0022
St. Lawrence 0.5463 0.2139 0.0691 0.0250 0.0091 0.0020
University of New England 0.4002 0.1719 0.0591 0.0202 0.0074 0.0016
Baruch 0.2953 0.1364 0.0433 0.0203 0.0068 0.0015
Rochester Tech 0.3867 0.1863 0.0796 0.0229 0.0067 0.0013
MIT 0.3520 0.1459 0.0468 0.0149 0.0051 0.0010
Scranton 0.4118 0.1691 0.0723 0.0200 0.0056 0.0010
Gettysburg 0.4321 0.1577 0.0552 0.0197 0.0031 0.0010
Brooklyn 0.4537 0.1591 0.0452 0.0145 0.0047 0.0009
Averett 0.3315 0.1186 0.0413 0.0140 0.0021 0.0006
Gwynedd-Mercy 0.3696 0.0896 0.0328 0.0102 0.0032 0.0006
Lawrence 0.2089 0.0579 0.0129 0.0023 0.0009 0.0003
St. Joseph's (Maine) 0.3426 0.0728 0.0245 0.0064 0.0018 0.0003
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps 0.3335 0.0560 0.0091 0.0020 0.0007 0.0003
Cornell 0.1908 0.0286 0.0062 0.0013 0.0005 0.0002
Maryville (Tenn.) 0.2644 0.0673 0.0208 0.0058 0.0007 0.0002
Wesley 0.2519 0.0870 0.0285 0.0056 0.0011 0.0001
Virginia Wesleyan 0.3013 0.0940 0.0292 0.0056 0.0011 0.0001
Hope 0.2080 0.0361 0.0077 0.0011 0.0004 0.0001
Medaille 0.2001 0.0649 0.0175 0.0043 0.0004 0.0001
Thomas More 0.1969 0.0660 0.0158 0.0039 0.0004 0.0001
SUNYIT 0.1533 0.0455 0.0071 0.0012 0.0002 0.0000
Brockport State 0.1758 0.0315 0.0057 0.0010 0.0001 0.0000
Aurora 0.0521 0.0071 0.0008 0.0001 0.0000 0.0000
Rensselaer 0.0673 0.0129 0.0021 0.0003 0.0000 0.0000
Fontbonne 0.0586 0.0082 0.0008 0.0001 0.0000 0.0000
Husson 0.1246 0.0128 0.0011 0.0002 0.0000 0.0000
The tourney history of this year's 60 participants:Newbies:Husson
MIT
Medaille
New England
St. Joseph's (NY)
SUNYIT
Thomas More
Wesley
Been There, Done That:| school | apps | 1st app | E8s | F4s | 'chips | W-L | (%) |
| Brandeis | 6 | 1975 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 8-5 | (.615) |
| Brockport State | 9 | 1975 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 13-8 | (.619) |
| Franklin & Marshall | 20 | 1975 | 7 | 4 | 0 | 32-23 | (.582) |
| RPI | 5 | 1975 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3-5 | (.375) |
| Rhode Island C. | 6 | 1975 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 6-7 | (.462) |
| St. Lawrence | 11 | 1975 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 8-12 | (.400) |
| Scranton | 22 | 1975 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 33-21 | (.611) |
| Transylvania | 7 | 1975 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 7-6 | (.538) |
| Widener | 17 | 1975 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 20-18 | (.526) |
| Cornell | 3 | 1976 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-3 | (.000) |
| Mass-Dartmouth | 14 | 1976 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 14-14 | (.500) |
| Rochester Tech | 7 | 1976 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2-7 | (.222) |
| Carnegie Mellon | 3 | 1977 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-3 | (.000) |
| Ithaca | 7 | 1977 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2-9 | (.182) |
| Virginia Wesleyan | 9 | 1978 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 13-9 | (.591) |
| Wooster | 18 | 1978 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 17-18 | (.486) |
| Centre | 12 | 1979 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 12-16 | (.429) |
| Salem State | 22 | 1980 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 21-23 | (.477) |
| Brooklyn | 2 | 1982 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 4-1 | (.800) |
| Capital | 8 | 1982 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 6-7 | (.462) |
| Hope | 20 | 1982 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 25-20 | (.556) |
| WPI | 6 | 1982 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4-6 | (.400) |
| Bridgewater State | 4 | 1983 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-3 | (.250) |
| John Carroll | 11 | 1983 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 18-12 | (.600) |
| UW-Whitewater | 15 | 1983 | 3 | 3 | 2 | 22-13 | (.629) |
| Claremont-Mudd-Scripps | 9 | 1984 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 3-9 | (.250) |
| Richard Stockton | 12 | 1987 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 16-13 | (.552) |
| Washington (MO) | 14 | 1987 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 20-12 | (.625) |
| Averett | 4 | 1990 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-4 | (.200) |
| St. Thomas | 10 | 1990 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 9-10 | (.474) |
| Maryville (TN) | 16 | 1991 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 13-15 | (.464) |
| UW-Platteville | 10 | 1991 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 30-5 | (.857) |
| Elmhurst | 3 | 1992 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2-2 | (.500) |
| Amherst | 12 | 1994 | 6 | 4 | 1 | 23-11 | (.676) |
| Wheaton (IL) | 6 | 1995 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5-5 | (.500) |
| DeSales | 2 | 1996 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 | (.000) |
| Fontbonne | 4 | 1996 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-3 | (.000) |
| Gettysburg | 5 | 1996 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2-4 | (.333) |
| Lawrence | 6 | 1997 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5-5 | (.500) |
| UW-Stevens Point | 8 | 1997 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 18-5 | (.783) |
| Aurora | 7 | 1998 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-6 | (.143) |
| Trinity (TX) | 7 | 1998 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4-6 | (.400) |
| Baruch | 3 | 2000 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-2 | (.000) |
| St. Joseph's (ME) | 2 | 2003 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 | (.000) |
| Whitworth | 4 | 2003 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2-3 | (.400) |
| Gwynedd-Mercy | 3 | 2004 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-2 | (.333) |
| Puget Sound | 4 | 2004 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 4-3 | (.579) |
| Elms | 5 | 2005 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-4 | (.200) |
| Texas-Dallas | 2 | 2005 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 | (.000) |
| Farmingdale State | 3 | 2006 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1-2 | (.333) |
| Guilford | 3 | 2007 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2-2 | (.500) |
| Middlebury | 2 | 2008 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0-1 | (.000) |
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2009, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: T990 on March 05, 2009, 03:06:38 PM
ESPN coverage of the D3 tournament:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=darcy/090305
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index
There's a rumor that ESPN will do a TV piece on MIT basketball tonight on Sportscenter (?). [I don't know the details.]
I hear the same rumor.
I now hear it is likely the 6:00 (early) sportscenter that will have it.
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2009, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2009, 03:56:18 PM
Quote from: T990 on March 05, 2009, 03:06:38 PM
ESPN coverage of the D3 tournament:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=darcy/090305
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index
There's a rumor that ESPN will do a TV piece on MIT basketball tonight on Sportscenter (?). [I don't know the details.]
I hear the same rumor.
I now hear it is likely the 6:00 (early) sportscenter that will have it.
I now hear MIT may have been bumped to ESPNU.
Pat sent out a Tweet that said 5:30 ET on ESPN U which is 15 minutes from now.
Since it's that time of year, there is only one piece of information I keep an eye on regularly. I have a spreadsheet with all the teams who have won at least one game in the tournament since its inception.
Wittenberg is still tops with 18 years with a win. F&M has a chance to move to solo #2 (they are currently tied with IWU at 14).
In terms of active streaks, Maryville lost their first game last year, ending what was the record of nine consecutive tournaments with a win. Amherst, however, tied said record with their first win last year. They enter this year's tournament with a chance to make it a full decade of NCAA tournament wins.
Amherst - 9
Va Wesleyan - 4
Hope - 3
Widener - 3
It should be noted that VA Wesleyan plays Widener, so one of them will continue their streak.
There are also five teams with a two year streak (WashU, Centre, Stevens Point, Brandeis, and Rhode Island College).
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 05, 2009, 04:12:47 PM
[
Been There, Done That:
| school | apps | 1st app | E8s | F4s | 'chips | W-L | (%) |
| Hope | 20 | 1982 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 25-20 | (.556) |
Hope has been to 3 Final Fours.....1996, 1998, 2008
Hope's record was once 3-11 in the tournament.
but +k anyway, well done.
MIT UPSETS RIC ON THEIR HOME COURT
Bartolotta had an awful game in regulation, but took over in OT. Going 2-2 from 3 (2-2 from the field overall) and 4-4 from the line, scoring 10. He finished the game 27 points, 8 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 steals.
Billy Johnson played HUGE (before fouling out with 1 minute to go in OT). He 7-11 from the floor (3-4 from 3), scoring 19 points, adding 11 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 blocks.
Bobby Bailey paced RIC with 16 points.
In the Bracket of Death: Regarding the poll
#4 Stevens Point at #1 St. Thomas
#5 Platteville at #3 Wheaton
#8 Whitewater vs. #2 Washington U. at Elmhurst
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 07, 2009, 12:14:47 PM
In the Bracket of Death: Regarding the poll
#4 Stevens Point at #1 St. Thomas
#5 Platteville at #3 Wheaton
#8 Whitewater vs. #2 Washington U. at Elmhurst
Puget Sound makes their bracket of death debut tonight against Whitworth...it's only their 4 time they played, this year. lol. Good Luck UPS!
Puget Sound's record v Whitworth
Jan. 16 8:00 PM at Whitworth * • W, 89-77
Feb. 13 8:00 PM Whitworth * • W, 81-71
Feb. 28 7:00 PM Whitworth • L, 90-80 OT
Should be a battle.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 07, 2009, 01:48:43 PM
Puget Sound's record v Whitworth
Jan. 16 8:00 PM at Whitworth * • W, 89-77
Feb. 13 8:00 PM Whitworth * • W, 81-71
Feb. 28 7:00 PM Whitworth • L, 90-80 OT
Should be a battle.
It sure will be. Hoping to get another shot at Point...for old times sake, lol. Point has a tough battle first too
Sager,
I was looking at your posting of tourney records...UW-Platteville's tournament record is just flat out amazing.
The Press of Atlantic City is doing a live interactive blog from the Richard Stockton College vs. Gwynedd-Mercy game tonight starting at 7 p.m.
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/186/story/422169.html
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/126/story/422169.html
Does anybody know if they will be showing any of the remaining tournament games on ESPN? The final four games or the Championship?
Both mascac teams make the sweet 16; who would have guessed?
So John Carroll and F&M will definitely host sectionals, right?
Will it be St. Lawrence or Richard Stockton?
There have been 5 two point games already tonight. And the widest margin has been 13.
Who hosts? Wheaton, WashU, or St. Thomas?
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2009, 10:19:17 PM
Who hosts? Wheaton, WashU, or St. Thomas?
WashU and St. Thomas are over 500 miles, so it would be Wheaton by geography.
Quote from: pabegg on March 07, 2009, 10:23:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2009, 10:19:17 PM
Who hosts? Wheaton, WashU, or St. Thomas?
WashU and St. Thomas are over 500 miles, so it would be Wheaton by geography.
There you go. Probably by seed, as well, I assume.
Bummer.
-WU fan
How far is Wheaton from the Chicago airports? Who knows, maybe I'll find a cheap flight.
Quote from: Marty Peretz on March 07, 2009, 10:36:57 PM
Bummer.
-WU fan
How far is Wheaton from the Chicago airports? Who knows, maybe I'll find a cheap flight.
Perhaps a Chicago poster can chime in, but Wheaton is not far from either. It's actually closer to O'Hare, but I'm not sure if there is public transportation. From Midway, the Metra can drop you merely blocks from Wheaton.
Shucks, I have even taken public transportation to Foster and Kedzie! :D
Looks like Capital can host UTD, Guilford and JCU.
What did they say about a snowballs chance of UTD hosting the sectionals?
The gym is open this week, I think.
Quote from: Marty Peretz on March 07, 2009, 10:36:57 PM
Bummer.
-WU fan
How far is Wheaton from the Chicago airports? Who knows, maybe I'll find a cheap flight.
26 miles 46 minutes from O'Hare (without rush hour traffic)
31 Miles 50 minutes from Midway (without rush hour traffic)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2009, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: Marty Peretz on March 07, 2009, 10:36:57 PM
Bummer.
-WU fan
How far is Wheaton from the Chicago airports? Who knows, maybe I'll find a cheap flight.
Perhaps a Chicago poster can chime in, but Wheaton is not far from either. It's actually closer to O'Hare, but I'm not sure if there is public transportation. From Midway, the Metra can drop you merely blocks from Wheaton.
I think you can also take rapid rail from O'Hare to Downtown then Metra to Wheaton. Sager would know
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 10:52:51 PM
Shucks, I have even taken public transportation to Foster and Kedzie! :D
Looks like Capital can host UTD, Guilford and JCU.
What did they say about a snowballs chance of UTD hosting the sectionals?
The gym is open this week, I think.
I was thinking at JCU hosts.
but I didn't do mileage from Guilford to either Columbus or Cleveland.
Guilford to JCU = 482.
Guilford to Capital ~ 390+
Marty - Some FU students took Amtrak and loved it.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 10:57:57 PM
Guilford to JCU = 482.
Guilford to Capital ~ 390+
The bracket and probably final Great Lakes Regional ranking suggest John Carroll is the highest remaining seed. It appears both Capital and JCU could host the sectional.
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2009, 11:00:09 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 10:57:57 PM
Guilford to JCU = 482.
Guilford to Capital ~ 390+
The bracket and probably final Great Lakes Regional ranking suggest John Carroll is the highest remaining seed. It appears both Capital and JCU could host the sectional.
You would think that JCU would be the top seed- they beat Capital 2 out of 3 this year, including winning the OAC championship just before that final regional ranking...and JCU was already the top GL team in the regional rankings before winning that game. No way Capital would have moved ahead of them.
Not much talk about the other brackets
Upper right
Farmingdale St vs Bridgewater St.
St. Lawrence vs #6 Richard Stockton
One of those four is in Salem, I have no idea where that sectional might be.
Lower right
Salem State v Franklin and Marshall
DeSales vs #16 Mass-Dartmouth
One of those four is in Salem, I have no idea where that sectional might be.
FCnews,
I'm no longer in St. Louis, unfortunately. Otherwise, I'd be there without hesitation. For now, I think I'm gonna have to hope we get to Salem before I take a day off work and see the team play again in person.
UTD's defense and quickness gave Trinity trouble tonight.
UTD held TU to one FG in the last 10 minutes of the game.
Temaine Wright for UTD is worth the price of admission. We have plenty of players like him in the ASC.
UTD should be a good match-up for Capital.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2009, 10:52:51 PM
Shucks, I have even taken public transportation to Foster and Kedzie! :D
Looks like Capital can host UTD, Guilford and JCU.
What did they say about a snowballs chance of UTD hosting the sectionals?
The gym is open this week, I think.
JCU can as well. They'd be higher seeded.
Quote from: sac on March 07, 2009, 11:10:13 PM
Lower right
Salem State v Franklin and Marshall
DeSales vs #16 Mass-Dartmouth
One of those four is in Salem, I have no idea where that sectional might be.
My guess would be UMass-Dartmouth, based on their record (best of the four teams) and location. Salem State just traveled to Widener, so maybe the NCAA will make the PA teams go up to New England. F&M is slightly less than 400 miles away from UMass-Dartmouth, but right around 400 from Salem State. UMD also has a decent sized gym (3,000), so it looks like a good option.
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 07, 2009, 10:54:51 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 07, 2009, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: Marty Peretz on March 07, 2009, 10:36:57 PM
Bummer.
-WU fan
How far is Wheaton from the Chicago airports? Who knows, maybe I'll find a cheap flight.
Perhaps a Chicago poster can chime in, but Wheaton is not far from either. It's actually closer to O'Hare, but I'm not sure if there is public transportation. From Midway, the Metra can drop you merely blocks from Wheaton.
I think you can also take rapid rail from O'Hare to Downtown then Metra to Wheaton. Sager would know
the two airports would take similar time to travel by car. If you are dependent on public transport, Midway's Orange line get to the city faster than Ohare's blue line. Plus, the Orange line gets you closer to the Citibank building on Canal and Madison, where you would pick up the West line Metra rail to College Avenue for Wheaton.
www.metrarail.com
All in all, midway is a bit more convenient via public transport and Ohare is probably better if you are renting a car or taking a taxi.
What are the chances of Richard Stockton hosting the Sweet 16, they are the only Top 25 team in their brackett and ranked #6 in the poll
If Salem State is hosting, I hope to God they got rid of that synthetic floor. Back in 1991 when we (Ramapo) had to travel up there for the Sweet 16 they had a rubberized floor. The Basketball bounced off it like a super ball.
I still can't understand how the NCAA would let a school with a rubberized floor host a sectional
Quote from: Scrub023 on March 07, 2009, 07:31:42 PM
Does anybody know if they will be showing any of the remaining tournament games on ESPN? The final four games or the Championship?
Yep!!! Right after hell freezes over
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2009, 10:25:06 PM
Quote from: pabegg on March 07, 2009, 10:23:03 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 07, 2009, 10:19:17 PM
Who hosts? Wheaton, WashU, or St. Thomas?
WashU and St. Thomas are over 500 miles, so it would be Wheaton by geography.
There you go. Probably by seed, as well, I assume.
I would think that it would be St. Thomas by seed, as they are still undefeated. But none of that matters when one team has a clear geographical advantage (like WashU last year).
Funny, but it looks like the exact same issue on the women's side, where St. Benedict is more than 500 from Illinois Wesleyan, so the sectional would seem to be headed to Stevens Point, putting an undefeated team on the road.
The Championships Committee has prioritized the following site-selection criteria for all championships:
1. Quality and availability of the facility and other necessary accommodations;
2. Geographical location (which may include such factors as rotation of sites, weather, accessibility, and transportation costs);
3. Seeding, and;
4. Attendance history and revenue potential, which shall be considered necessary to assure fiscal responsibility.
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/basketball/2009/3_mbasketball_handbook.pdf
(page 7)
Quote from: pabegg on March 08, 2009, 07:37:00 AMI would think that it would be St. Thomas by seed, as they are still undefeated. But none of that matters when one team has a clear geographical advantage (like WashU last year).
Funny, but it looks like the exact same issue on the women's side, where St. Benedict is more than 500 from Illinois Wesleyan, so the sectional would seem to be headed to Stevens Point, putting an undefeated team on the road.
I have been assuming that undefeated St. Thomas is the higher seed in the Midwest/West bracket - the #1 to Wheaton's #2. Since the committee does not release their seedings, all we really know is that Wheaton went in as the #1-ranked team in the Midwest and St. Thomas #1 in the West (that is where both were in the final release regional rankings). But we don't know how they seeded St. Thomas vs Wheaton.
As of Selection Sunday, here are the considerations...
1. In-region winning % (St. Thomas 1.000, Wheaton .870)
2. In-region strength of schedule, OWP/OOWP (
Wheaton .5982/.5702, St. Thomas .5117/5193)
3. In-region head-to-head (n/a)
4. In-region common opponets (n/a)
5. In-region results vs regionally ranked teams (
Wheaton 7-2, St. Thomas 0-0)
There is a chance Wheaton is the #1 seed is in the Bracket of Death. St. Thomas didn't even have a game vs a regionally ranked team until last night (vs Stevens Point). Wheaton was 2-1 vs Elmhurst, 2-0 vs Augustana, 2-1 vs North Central, and 1-0 vs Hope (which I assume snuck in the final Great Lakes rankings). Huge disparity there.
On the women's side, where there is also an undefeated team in jeopardy of going on the road, the seeding issue is more clear. We know that IWU was ranked higher than Stevens Point and Wash U in the final published rankings...
Central Region
1. Ill. Wesleyan 21-0 24-0
2. Washington U. 18-4 20-4
3. UW-Stevens Point 21-3 22-3
4. UW-Whitewater 20-3 22-3
5. UW-Eau Claire 17-4 21-4
6. St. Norbert 18-2 19-4
St. Benedict was #2 in the West...
West Region
1. George Fox 20-0 25-0
2. St. Benedict 22-3 22-3
3. Simpson 18-3 22-3
4. Concordia-Moorhead 17-5 18-7
5. St. Thomas 18-7 18-7
6. Redlands 18-6 19-6
We don't know IWU's seeding vs St. Benedict, but I think it is safe to say IWU entered the tournament as the #1 seed in its quadrant.
If the Sectional is given to any school but IWU, it will be strictly because of travel cost. (On the men's side, it's not clear if St. Thomas is really the highest seed.)
Travel cost shouldn't matter, because every school is within 500 miles of every other school. IT should be IWU hosting.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2009, 10:15:23 AM
Travel cost shouldn't matter, because every school is within 500 miles of every other school. IT should be IWU hosting.
As far as I know, that is not right. At Stevens Point, all 4 teams can bus...at IWU, St. Benedict has to fly.
Am I wrong about that?
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 10:25:43 AM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 08, 2009, 10:15:23 AM
Travel cost shouldn't matter, because every school is within 500 miles of every other school. IT should be IWU hosting.
As far as I know, that is not right. At Stevens Point, all 4 teams can bus...at IWU, St. Benedict has to fly.
Am I wrong about that?
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/TES/exec/miles
Right you are. St. Ben's would have to fly to either IWU or Wash. U. All three can bus to UWSP. I forgot how much further north St. Ben's is than Stevens Point. I was thinking of them as essentially the same lattitude.
Quote from: magicman on March 08, 2009, 05:01:53 AM
Quote from: Scrub023 on March 07, 2009, 07:31:42 PM
Does anybody know if they will be showing any of the remaining tournament games on ESPN? The final four games or the Championship?
Yep!!! Right after hell freezes over
The NCAA's website says nothing so far as I can see about men's coverage, but it does say, on the women's bracket, that there will be TV coverage by "CBS College Sports." Are the Women's finals to be broadcast nationally? Will there be a broadcast of the women's finals but not the men's?
Both will be on TV, same as in years past.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2009, 01:02:40 PM
Both will be on TV, same as in years past.
Have also heard they are doing all 4 games live on tv.....women's consolation, women's championship, men's consolation, men's championship. Which is the reason for the 11:00 am consolation start time at the women's final four.
I have yet to actually see this in print anywhere, its also supposed to be followed by coverage of the men's college hockey tournament. An all day feast of live college sports.
I know there will be online video of the Friday semifinals, same as last year. I haven't heard of it being on a broadcast outlet anywhere, however.
Quote from: sac on March 08, 2009, 02:09:11 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2009, 01:02:40 PM
Both will be on TV, same as in years past.
Have also heard they are doing all 4 games live on tv.....women's consolation, women's championship, men's consolation, men's championship. Which is the reason for the 11:00 am consolation start time at the women's final four.
I have yet to actually see this in print anywhere, its also supposed to be followed by coverage of the men's college hockey tournament. An all day feast of live college sports.
Here's the CSTV schedule for Championship Saturday
Sat. Mar. 21
12:30 PM – 1:00 PM NCAA March Madness Pregame Show Presented by State Farm
1:00 PM – 3:00 PM NCAA Division III Women's Basketball Championship – LIVE
3:00 PM – 5:00 PM NCAA Division III Men's Basketball Championship – LIVE 5:00 PM – 7:30 PM NCAA Division III Men's Hockey Championship – LIVE
7:30 PM – 10:00 PM NCAA March Madness Central Powered by Pontiac
10:00 PM – 11:00 PM NCAA March Madness Highlights Powered by Pontiac
So not quite what I had heard, but the women's and men's finals will be on back-to-back.
They usually push the third place game up early in the day so there's less chance that the Championship game would start late, thus messing up the TV schedule.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 01:40:57 AM
It's especially hard when a voter sees a neutral floor loss to Bridgewater State on the resume.
How do you feel now Pat?
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2009, 04:22:46 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on January 22, 2008, 01:40:57 AM
It's especially hard when a voter sees a neutral floor loss to Bridgewater State on the resume.
How do you feel now Pat?
And starting in right field... nwhoops1903!
The last 5 years of Sectionals...
2008
@ Hope* (Ohio Wesleyan, Wheaton, Whitworth)
@ Wash U* (Buena Vista, St. Mary's-Md., Millsaps)
@ Plattsburgh St (Brandeis, Amherst*, Richard Stockton)
@ Ursinus* (Gettysburg, Rochester, Coast Guard)
2007
@ UW-Stevens Point (Wash U*, Hope Carroll)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Mississippi Coll, Lincoln, Guilford)
@ Amherst* (Stevens, Rhode Island, Keene State)
@ St. John Fisher (Brockport St., Wooster*, John Carroll)
2006
@ Lawrence (Illinois Wesleyan*, Augustana, Puget Sound)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Lincoln, William Patterson, Widener)
@ Amherst* (Tufts, Utica, St. John Fisher)
@ Wittenberg* (Hope, Mississippi Coll, Transylvania)
2005
@ UW-Stevens Point* (Puget Sound, Hanover, Trinity-Tx)
@ Ramapo (Kings, Worcester Poly, York-Pa*)
@ Amherst (Rochester*, Potsdam St, St. John Fisher)
@ Albion (John Carroll, Calvin*, Mississippi Coll)
2004
@ Puget Sound (Stevens Point*, Sul Ross State, Lawrence)
@ Wooster (Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll*, Maryville-Tn)
@ Williams* (Brockport State, Rochester, Keene State)
@ Franklin & Marshall (Gwynedd-Mercy, New Jersey City, Amherst*)
* winner of Sectional
Of the last 20 Sectionals, the host team has won 10. I would have guessed that % to be much higher.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 04:43:16 PM
The last 5 years of Sectionals...
2008
@ Hope* (Ohio Wesleyan, Wheaton, Whitworth)
@ Wash U* (Buena Vista^, St. Mary's-Md., Millsaps^)
@ Plattsburgh St (Brandeis, Amherst*, Richard Stockton)
@ Ursinus* (Gettysburg, Rochester, Coast Guard)
2007
@ UW-Stevens Point (Wash U*, Hope, Carroll)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Mississippi Coll, Lincoln, Guilford)
@ Amherst* (Stevens, Rhode Island, Keene State)
@ St. John Fisher (Brockport St., Wooster*, John Carroll)
2006
@ Lawrence (Illinois Wesleyan*, Augustana, Puget Sound)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Lincoln, William Patterson, Widener)
@ Amherst* (Tufts, Utica, St. John Fisher)
@ Wittenberg* (Hope, Mississippi Coll, Transylvania)
2005
@ UW-Stevens Point* (Puget Sound, Hanover, Trinity-Tx)
@ Ramapo (Kings, Worcester Poly, York-Pa*)
@ Amherst (Rochester*, Potsdam St, St. John Fisher)
@ Albion (John Carroll, Calvin*, Mississippi Coll)
2004
@ Puget Sound (Stevens Point*, Sul Ross State, Lawrence)
@ Wooster (Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll*, Maryville-Tn)
@ Williams* (Brockport State, Rochester, Keene State)
@ Franklin & Marshall (Gwynedd-Mercy, New Jersey City, Amherst*)
* winner of Sectional
Of the last 20 Sectionals, the host team has won 10. I would have guessed that % to be much higher.
In
bold are schools that were flown to the venue.
(As best as I can determine, 11 schools were flown to the sectionals. Mississippi College was the highest seed in the 2007 Sectional and was flown to VA.
Only the 2004 Stevens Point team won the Sectional.
^Millsaps to WashUStL is only 496 miles.
^Buena Vista to WashStL is only 498 miles.
12 out of 72 flew. Not much of a basis for projecting anything useful, Ralph.
And, of course, teams fly to Salem every year.
Pat did you just delete my post about the matchups next Friday? I notice they've now been corrected.
I was still punching in the schedules. You can email me if you see something. You always do.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2009, 05:02:08 PM
I was still punching in the schedules. You can email me if you see something. You always do.
OK.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 04:53:09 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 04:43:16 PM
The last 5 years of Sectionals...
2008
@ Hope* (Ohio Wesleyan, Wheaton, Whitworth)
@ Wash U* (Buena Vista^, St. Mary's-Md., Millsaps^)
@ Plattsburgh St (Brandeis, Amherst*, Richard Stockton)
@ Ursinus* (Gettysburg, Rochester, Coast Guard)
2007
@ UW-Stevens Point (Wash U*, Hope, Carroll)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Mississippi Coll, Lincoln, Guilford)
@ Amherst* (Stevens, Rhode Island, Keene State)
@ St. John Fisher (Brockport St., Wooster*, John Carroll)
2006
@ Lawrence (Illinois Wesleyan*, Augustana, Puget Sound)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Lincoln, William Patterson, Widener)
@ Amherst* (Tufts, Utica, St. John Fisher)
@ Wittenberg* (Hope, Mississippi Coll, Transylvania)
2005
@ UW-Stevens Point* (Puget Sound, Hanover, Trinity-Tx)
@ Ramapo (Kings, Worcester Poly, York-Pa*)
@ Amherst (Rochester*, Potsdam St, St. John Fisher)
@ Albion (John Carroll, Calvin*, Mississippi Coll)
2004
@ Puget Sound (Stevens Point*, Sul Ross State, Lawrence)
@ Wooster (Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll*, Maryville-Tn)
@ Williams* (Brockport State, Rochester, Keene State)
@ Franklin & Marshall (Gwynedd-Mercy, New Jersey City, Amherst*)
* winner of Sectional
Of the last 20 Sectionals, the host team has won 10. I would have guessed that % to be much higher.
In bold are schools that were flown to the venue.
(As best as I can determine, 11 schools were flown to the sectionals. Mississippi College was the highest seed in the 2007 Sectional and was flown to VA.
Only the 2004 Stevens Point team won the Sectional.
^Millsaps to WashUStL is only 496 miles.
^Buena Vista to WashStL is only 498 miles.
It should be noted that in 2004 for the Puget Sound sectional, Stevens Point should have probably hosted that one since Lawrence could have skipped the flight causing two flights instead of three but the Stevens Point had first chance to host that weekend and did. Lawrence may have been considered to small to host the sectionals even though they did it two years later albeit in a split session.
Quote from: hickory_cornhusker on March 08, 2009, 05:04:28 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 04:53:09 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 04:43:16 PM
The last 5 years of Sectionals...
2008
@ Hope* (Ohio Wesleyan, Wheaton, Whitworth)
@ Wash U* (Buena Vista^, St. Mary's-Md., Millsaps^)
@ Plattsburgh St (Brandeis, Amherst*, Richard Stockton)
@ Ursinus* (Gettysburg, Rochester, Coast Guard)
2007
@ UW-Stevens Point (Wash U*, Hope, Carroll)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Mississippi Coll, Lincoln, Guilford)
@ Amherst* (Stevens, Rhode Island, Keene State)
@ St. John Fisher (Brockport St., Wooster*, John Carroll)
2006
@ Lawrence (Illinois Wesleyan*, Augustana, Puget Sound)
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Lincoln, William Patterson, Widener)
@ Amherst* (Tufts, Utica, St. John Fisher)
@ Wittenberg* (Hope, Mississippi Coll, Transylvania)
2005
@ UW-Stevens Point* (Puget Sound, Hanover, Trinity-Tx)
@ Ramapo (Kings, Worcester Poly, York-Pa*)
@ Amherst (Rochester*, Potsdam St, St. John Fisher)
@ Albion (John Carroll, Calvin*, Mississippi Coll)
2004
@ Puget Sound (Stevens Point*, Sul Ross State, Lawrence)
@ Wooster (Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll*, Maryville-Tn)
@ Williams* (Brockport State, Rochester, Keene State)
@ Franklin & Marshall (Gwynedd-Mercy, New Jersey City, Amherst*)
* winner of Sectional
Of the last 20 Sectionals, the host team has won 10. I would have guessed that % to be much higher.
In bold are schools that were flown to the venue.
(As best as I can determine, 11 schools were flown to the sectionals. Mississippi College was the highest seed in the 2007 Sectional and was flown to VA.
Only the 2004 Stevens Point team won the Sectional.
^Millsaps to WashUStL is only 496 miles.
^Buena Vista to WashStL is only 498 miles.
It should be noted that in 2004 for the Puget Sound sectional, Stevens Point should have probably hosted that one since Lawrence could have skipped the flight causing two flights instead of three but the Stevens Point had first chance to host that weekend and did. Lawrence may have been considered to small to host the sectionals even though they did it two years later albeit in a split session.
I assume you meant "...the Stevens Point
Women had first chance to host..." .
(Corrected for Hanover to UWSP = 546 miles.)
I have added the distances traveled by the Sectional champion to the venue.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 04:43:16 PM
The last 5 years of Sectionals...
2008
@ Hope* (Ohio Wesleyan, Wheaton, Whitworth)
@ Wash U* (Buena Vista, St. Mary's-Md., Millsaps)
@ Plattsburgh St (Brandeis, Amherst*, Richard Stockton) 260 miles
@ Ursinus* (Gettysburg, Rochester, Coast Guard)
2007
@ UW-Stevens Point (Wash U*, Hope Carroll) 469 miles
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Mississippi Coll, Lincoln, Guilford)
@ Amherst* (Stevens, Rhode Island, Keene State)
@ St. John Fisher (Brockport St., Wooster*, John Carroll) 341 miles
2006
@ Lawrence (Illinois Wesleyan*, Augustana, Puget Sound) 296 miles
@ Virginia Wesleyan* (Lincoln, William Patterson, Widener)
@ Amherst* (Tufts, Utica, St. John Fisher)
@ Wittenberg* (Hope, Mississippi Coll, Transylvania)
2005
@ UW-Stevens Point* (Puget Sound, Hanover, Trinity-Tx)
@ Ramapo (Kings, Worcester Poly, York-Pa*) 189 miles
@ Amherst (Rochester*, Potsdam St, St. John Fisher) 329 miles
@ Albion (John Carroll, Calvin*, Mississippi Coll) 95 miles
2004
@ Puget Sound (Stevens Point*, Sul Ross State, Lawrence) flight
@ Wooster (Illinois Wesleyan, John Carroll*, Maryville-Tn) 63 miles
@ Williams* (Brockport State, Rochester, Keene State)
@ Franklin & Marshall (Gwynedd-Mercy, New Jersey City, Amherst*) 334 miles
* winner of Sectional
Of the last 20 Sectionals, the host team has won 10. I would have guessed that % to be much higher.
Plane flights in italics.
I think that the critical step in getting the Salem where almost everyone flies is getting thru the Sectionals, where flying is a major consideration.
How much home court disadvantage does a team have when they are so far from their fan base that the fans can't drive to the tourney?
(Corrected for Hanover to UWSP = 546 miles.)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 04:53:09 PM
In bold are schools that were flown to the venue.
(As best as I can determine, 11 schools were flown to the sectionals. Mississippi College was the highest seed in the 2007 Sectional and was flown to VA.
Only the 2004 Stevens Point team won the Sectional.
^Millsaps to WashUStL is only 496 miles.
^Buena Vista to WashStL is only 498 miles.
Would Hanover have flown to Stevens Point (2005)? Having been to Hanover many times, that seems like a haul to me.
In my opinion, a long bus ride - like Bloomington, IL to Appleton, WI (5 hours), or St. Louis to Stevens Point (8 hours) - is not any easier travel than a flight. As long as all teams get to the destination at the same time on Thursday, I don't see the method of travel as a huge factor. (Now, playing on the road vs home...that is a huge deal of course.)
The biggest issue in my opinion is the "island teams" that will never host...even when they deserve to. Like Mississippi College in 2007.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 05:25:58 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 04:53:09 PM
In bold are schools that were flown to the venue.
(As best as I can determine, 11 schools were flown to the sectionals. Mississippi College was the highest seed in the 2007 Sectional and was flown to VA.
Only the 2004 Stevens Point team won the Sectional.
^Millsaps to WashUStL is only 496 miles.
^Buena Vista to WashStL is only 498 miles.
Would Hanover have flown to Stevens Point (2005)? Having been to Hanover many times, that seems like a haul to me. Yes, 546 miles! Thanks!
In my opinion, a long bus ride - like Bloomington, IL to Appleton, WI (5 hours) - is not any easier travel than a flight. As long as all teams get to the destination at the same time on Thursday, I don't see the method of travel as a huge factor. (Now, playing on the road vs home...that is a huge deal of course.)
The biggest issue in my opinion is the "island teams" that will never host...even when they deserve to. Like Mississippi College in 2007.
Note that in 2005, Hanover (flight) gave Trinity (flight) a tremendous game Friday night, and then Saturday Trinity gave UW-Stevens Point their toughest game in the entire tournament.
Gotta be ready to play Friday night, regardless of how you got there.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 05:29:33 PM
Note that in 2005, Hanover (flight) gave Trinity (flight) a tremendous game Friday night, and then Saturday Trinity gave UW-Stevens Point their toughest game in the entire tournament.
Gotta be ready to play Friday night, regardless of how you got there.
Of course we are still trying to get the men to flip sub-sectionals as Pat Coleman discussed in the Men's Commissioner's interview.
Your comment about flight team vs. flight team is good.
The Lawrence- Sul Ross State game in 2004 went to OT, and the Lawrence-UWSP game on Saturday went to OT as well.
This year, I am grateful that UTD is getting Capital instead of JCU in the sectional semis.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 05:25:37 PMHow much home court disadvantage does a team have when they are so far from their fan base that the fans can't drive to the tourney?
Good question, Ralph. As I see it, a road game in the Sectionals is going to be hostile regardless. If Puget Sound plays Wheaton Saturday night on Wheaton's home floor, it is going be a hugely pro-Wheaton crowd, whether or not UPS has 150-200 there or not. As far as neutral games, UW-Platteville fans were out-numbered by Hope fans this past Friday at Wheaton...and Platteville won in a blowout.
I really don't think the "far from their fan base" thing is the issue -- it is more just the playing on the road reality.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 05:39:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 05:25:37 PMHow much home court disadvantage does a team have when they are so far from their fan base that the fans can't drive to the tourney?
Good question, Ralph. As I see it, a road game in the Sectionals is going to be hostile regardless. If Puget Sound plays Wheaton Saturday night on Wheaton's home floor, it is going be a hugely pro-Wheaton crowd, whether or not UPS has 150-200 there or not. As far as neutral games, UW-Platteville fans were out-numbered by Hope fans this past Friday at Wheaton...and Platteville won in a blowout.
I really don't think the "far from their fan base" thing is the issue -- it is more just the playing on the road reality.
Then that is just part of the mental toughness that the team brings to the game.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 05:39:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 05:25:37 PMHow much home court disadvantage does a team have when they are so far from their fan base that the fans can't drive to the tourney?
Good question, Ralph. As I see it, a road game in the Sectionals is going to be hostile regardless. If Puget Sound plays Wheaton Saturday night on Wheaton's home floor, it is going be a hugely pro-Wheaton crowd, whether or not UPS has 150-200 there or not. As far as neutral games, UW-Platteville fans were out-numbered by Hope fans this past Friday at Wheaton...and Platteville won in a blowout.
I really don't think the "far from their fan base" thing is the issue -- it is more just the playing on the road reality.
How many anti-Wheaton fans will be in attendance rooting for UPS? ;)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 05:41:12 PM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 08, 2009, 05:39:12 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 05:25:37 PMHow much home court disadvantage does a team have when they are so far from their fan base that the fans can't drive to the tourney?
Good question, Ralph. As I see it, a road game in the Sectionals is going to be hostile regardless. If Puget Sound plays Wheaton Saturday night on Wheaton's home floor, it is going be a hugely pro-Wheaton crowd, whether or not UPS has 150-200 there or not. As far as neutral games, UW-Platteville fans were out-numbered by Hope fans this past Friday at Wheaton...and Platteville won in a blowout.
I really don't think the "far from their fan base" thing is the issue -- it is more just the playing on the road reality.
Then that is just part of the mental toughness that the team brings to the game.
I agree. In the 2001 Elite Eight, IWU had to beat #1-ranked Chicago on their floor to get to Salem...in 2006 IWU had to beat #1-ranked Lawrence (25-0) in Appleton in the Round of 16. Then there have been games I have watched IWU not rise to the occasion in the tournament on the road - @ Randolph-Macon in 2003 and @ Wooster in 2004 come to mind.
You're either ready to go or you're not.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 05:33:25 PM
This year, I am grateful that UTD is getting Capital instead of JCU in the sectional semis.
During the regular season, Capital and JCU split their games, with Cap winning at home in December by 6, and JCU winning at home in January by 8. They met up again in the OAC final at JCU, where the Streaks won by three when Nate Stahl's trey rimmed out at the buzzer. Capital has not lost to a non-OAC opponent, and since Dec. 1 neither has JCU. Both teams were unbeaten at home this season, so it is an advantage to play the "neutral court" team rather than the home team, but otherwise trying to decide between Capital and JCU is a real "pick your poison" scenario.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 08, 2009, 06:03:51 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 08, 2009, 05:33:25 PM
This year, I am grateful that UTD is getting Capital instead of JCU in the sectional semis.
During the regular season, Capital and JCU split their games, with Cap winning at home in December by 6, and JCU winning at home in January by 8. They met up again in the OAC final at JCU, where the Streaks won by three when Nate Stahl's trey rimmed out at the buzzer. Capital has not lost to a non-OAC opponent, and since Dec. 1 neither has JCU. Both teams were unbeaten at home this season, so it is an advantage to play the "neutral court" team rather than the home team, but otherwise trying to decide between Capital and JCU is a real "pick your poison" scenario.
I wonder about the match-ups.
Aren't their styles of play significantly different?
UTD plays very good defense.
I wouldn't say that Hope fans outnumbered Platteville fans. I thought it was about equal. Saturday night Platteville had a great crowd v Wheaton. I would have guessed about 40% of the gym and their sections were organized and loud. Wheaton had no students, band or cheerleaders but about half the gym was alums and community support.
Platteville also had their band and cheeleaders at both games. It made a big difference I thought.
Quote from: USee on March 08, 2009, 09:24:57 PM
I wouldn't say that Hope fans outnumbered Platteville fans. I thought it was about equal. Saturday night Platteville had a great crowd v Wheaton. I would have guessed about 40% of the gym and their sections were organized and loud. Wheaton had no students, band or cheerleaders but about half the gym was alums and community support.
Platteville also had their band and cheeleaders at both games. It made a big difference I thought.
I wouldn't either.......perhaps it was deceiving since the Hope contingent sat in 4 different places, escentially making a 'U' out of the one of King Arena, while Platteville's group were primarily confined to two areas, a small group behind the bench and floor to ceiling directly across..........and Hope and Wheaton have almost the exact shades of blue and orange. Many Wheaton fans sat within whatever groups of Hope fans there were, which may add to the confusion. Platteville's blue was a little lighter.
"No one had us beating them," Bridgewater State coach Joe Farroba told The Enterprise, in Brockton, Mass. "If you'd told me in October we'd be going to the Sweet 16, I'd have asked you what you were smoking."
this guy is the man.
Quote from: KorsairKILLAH on March 09, 2009, 07:52:18 AM
"No one had us beating them," Bridgewater State coach Joe Farroba told The Enterprise, in Brockton, Mass. "If you'd told me in October we'd be going to the Sweet 16, I'd have asked you what you were smoking."
this guy is the man.
Agreed. Too bad that destroyed my bracket but that's probably the best quote I've seen with regards to the tourney.
Aside from the Bracket of Death game of Wheaton v Washington U, what other "barnburners" are there? DeSales (over Ithaca) and Bridgewater State upset two bye teams (in theory, higher seeds), while the other two bye teams advanced. Texas-Dallas may be an upset over Trinity, even though Texas-Dallas had the bye, because they had to travel to Trinity. Puget Sound seems like they are the forgotten team in the group of death, maybe because they are only ranked 7th and didn't come from the CCIW or WIAC. I'm sure St. Thomas feels slighted because they haven't gotten much love in the Bracket of Death even though they're undefeated and #1 in the D3 poll. They did silence some doubters with a hard fought win over WIAC regular season and tourney champ Stevens Point. Because I have fantasy league implications, I'll cheer for Wheaton, Richard Stockton, and Mass-Dartmouth to make the Final Four. For the last entrant, I'll go for Texas-Dallas since they would seem to be the underdog with the usual suspects of Guilford (from the tough ODAC), and Capital and John Carroll (from the usually balanced OAC) as the other three in the group.
Any readers here who are even thinking they might want to attend the Final Four should enter the City of Salem's contest: Free lodging, free tickets, admission to team banquet and VIP passes:http://www.d3hoops.com/salemgiveaway/
Pat... don't forget the most important part... meeting you!!!
OK... not part of the package... but I thought it was worth a try!
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 11, 2009, 05:42:05 PM
Pat... don't forget the most important part... meeting you!!!
OK... not part of the package... but I thought it was worth a try!
Will Miss Virginia be there? ??? ;)
Onion vid: "NCAA Expands March Madness To Include 4,096 Teams" (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/ncaa_expands_march_madness_to?utm_source=a-section)
All NCAA divisions; community, vocational and tech schools; plus some other qualifiers like Duke Intramural Squad, Full Bail University and Tyler Hansbrough Fan Club. The tourney will run through June.
Play opens March 19. Some D-III teams featured in the segment.
Middlebury vs. Williams opens the tourney at 4 a.m.
Gustavus vs. Weber State at 4:06 a.m.
Norwich vs. Johns Hopkins at 4:08 a.m.
Hobart vs. Oklahoma St. at 4:08 a.m.
Geneseo vs. Central Connecticut St. at 4:08 a.m.
Millsaps (#678 seed) vs. U of Liverpool (of the Big 8 Commuter & Remote Schools Conference)
Suffolk vs. Renaissance School of Therapeutic Massage at 4:10 a.m.
I can't wait!
ok too much time on my hands (well it is lunchtime) - do posts on these pages reflect interest from various schools in their teams??? In many cases, lets hope not
Here are the number of posts in each of the remaining schools conference rooms since the sweet 16 were determined
OAC (Capital, JCU) 27 posts since the evening of March 7
ASC (Tex Dallas) 6 posts
ODAC (Guilford) 44
NWC (Puget sound) 57
MIAC (St Thomas) 119
CCIW (Wheaton) 137
UAA (Wash U) 6 Though the SLIAC room has been hot (51)
MASCAC (Bridgewater, Salem) 2 one of them was Pat's Ad regarding the Salem trip
Little East (Mass Dart) 2 Pat's ad doubled it up here too
Liberty League (SLU) 19
Sky (Farmingdale) 14
NJAC (Rich Stockton) 5
Centenial (F&M) 24
MACF (DeSales) 32
I guess many don't find the same pleasures in this site that a handful of us in the midwest do.....
I heard from several players from unnamed teams that those players actually decided to play for teams in the midwest area because they knew there were a lot more fans posting on d3hoops about their schools. They wanted more exposure. Well, ok, that's not entirely true, or true at all...
UAA board is unique in that its users aren't familiar with many of the regions that its teams come from...for example, very few Deis fans no anything about Wheaton or St. Thomas, so they're not going to comment on WU vs Wheaton...plus, WU kids are on spring break. Plus, many of our alums (yours truly included) do not live within 1,000 miles of the games and this may follow the squad only very peripherally...That said, we apparently sold out or came very close to selling out our allotment of tickets, an impressive fete considering most of oru support comes from students and our students are on break...Chicagoland alumni and friends of the program stepping up...I'll be doing a game watch in New York City at a fellow recent alum's apartment. Can't wait.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 11, 2009, 05:59:33 PM
Quote from: Dave "d-mac" McHugh on March 11, 2009, 05:42:05 PM
Pat... don't forget the most important part... meeting you!!!
OK... not part of the package... but I thought it was worth a try!
Will Miss Virginia be there? ??? ;)
I heard she couldn't make it...but they were able to get miss south carolina.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww
:D
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/186/story/428092.html
John Carroll and Wheaton have both been eliminated. We'll see how the other hosts do tonight.
Live interactive blog from Richard Stockton vs. Farmingdale State, starting at 7 p.m. tonight:
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/126/story/428698.html
Not even worrying about my fantasy league, it would be cool to see some new blood make the Final Four. I mean, a MIAC team hasn't made it this far since Gustavus Adolphus, right? So, having St. Thomas make it would be cool, especially since I can say the Pointers lost to a Final Four team from the Bracket of Death. OK, that really won't make me feel any better, but having Wash U get knocked out wouldn't cause me to lose any sleep! No offense to the Bears. UT-Dallas would be interesting since most of us don't know much about those south teams. I thought it was going to be an all-OAC Elite 8 with Capital and John Carroll still alive. I don't know much about the other side of the bracket...
Hubbard and Co. are putting a smackdown on Farmingdale (73-42) with 11 to go. UT-Dallas is topping Guilford by 11 with 6 1/2 to go. St. Thomas is up 1 with 9 to go over Wash U. F&M is up 11 with about 6 to go.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 14, 2009, 08:19:53 PM
Hubbard and Co. are putting a smackdown on Farmingdale (73-42) with 11 to go. UT-Dallas is topping Guilford by 11 with 6 1/2 to go. St. Thomas is up 1 with 9 to go over Wash U. F&M is up 11 with about 6 to go.
I just started watching the Wash U v. St.Thomas game......UST was up 1 with 9:00!!! Wow, they are getting demolished right now, Wash U must of made a huge run.
Washington U with a big 2nd half downs St. Thomas 79-64. Nading Thompson and Wallis with big games to lead the Bears.
Wash U women advance to the Final Four as well.
Tyler Nading with 28 pts. Aaron Thompson with 17 pts and 9 rebounds. Sean Wallis with 13 pts and 10 assists.
Here is a list of the Final Four teams from the "Salem Era" (14 seasons from 1995-96 through 2008-09):
Amherst 4 (2004, 2006, 2007, 2008) - NESCAC
Illinois Wesleyan 4 (1996, 1997, 2001, 2006) - CCIW
Williams 4 (1997, 1998, 2003, 2004) - NESCAC
Franklin & Marshall 3 (1996, 2000, 2009) - Centennial
Hope 3 (1996, 1998, 2008) - MIAA
Washington U. 3 (2007, 2008, 2009) - UAA
Calvin 2 (2000, 2005) - MIAA
Hampden-Sydney 2 (1999, 2003) - ODAC
Rochester 2 (2002, 2005) - UAA
UW-Platteville 2 (1998, 1999) - WIAC
UW-Stevens Point 2 (2004, 2005) - WIAC
Virginia Wesleyan 2 (2006, 2006) - ODAC
William Paterson 2 (1999, 2001) - NJAC
Wooster 2 (2003, 2007) - NCAC
Alvernia 1 (1997) - MACF
Carthage 1 (2002) - CCIW
Catholic 1 (2001) - LAND
Connecticut College 1 (1999) - NESCAC
Elizabethtown 1 (2002) - MACC
Guilford 1 (2009) - ODAC
Gustavus Adolphus 1 (2003) - MIAC
John Carroll 1 (2004) - OAC
Nebraska Wesleyan 1 (1997) - ind
Ohio Northern 1 (2001) - OAC
Otterbein 1 (2002) - OAC
Richard Stockton 1 (2009) - NJAC
Rowan 1 (1996) - NJAC
Salem St 1 (2000) - MASCAC
Ursinus 1 (2008) - Centennial
UW-Eau Claire 1 (2000) - WIAC
Wilkes 1 (1997) - MACF
Wittenberg 1 (2006) - NCAC
York (Pa) 1 (2005) – CAC
Total appearances by conference (1995-96 through 2008-09):
NESCAC – 9
CCIW – 5
MIAA – 5
ODAC - 5
UAA - 5
WIAC - 5
Centennial – 4
NJAC – 4
NCAC - 3
OAC - 3
MACF – 2
CAC - 1
LAND – 1
MACC – 1
MACF - 1
MASCAC - 1
MIAC – 1
Ind - 1
Quote from: Titan Q on March 15, 2009, 06:00:28 PM
Virginia Wesleyan 2 (2006, 2006) - ODAC
2007, I presume.
Well, at the end of the day...
We have Washington U from the traditionally power conference UAA, Guilford from the ODAC, Richard Stockton from the NJAC (traditionally power conference but had been down lately) and Franklin & Marshall (Centennial, who had Ursinus in the Final Four last year). Not too bad. Of course, with the Bracket of Death, we couldn't get a CCIW or WIAC team in there and the NESCAC was upset in the tourney with Middlebury and Amherst going down (though this could be considered a down year for the NESCAC).
I watched Wash U & St. Thomas game yesterday and broadcaster said that WashU only loses one player from this year's team. That's scary!
Pat - Do you know if this is the first time that the NJAC had a men's and women's team in the Final Four in the same year?
Bob - Landmark shouldn't have any number next to them and the CAC should have two. Remember... Catholic was in the CAC when they came to Salem. They have only been in the Landmark for two seasons. Not right to give the Landmark credit they don't deserve :).
Quote from: BornBalla on March 15, 2009, 07:56:56 PM
I watched Wash U & St. Thomas game yesterday and broadcaster said that WashU only loses one player from this year's team. That's scary!
This is correct. The only two seniors are Tyler Nading and Sean Wallis and Wallis has a 5th year of eligibility due to his injury suffered in one of the first games of the 2007-2008 season.
Though it would be interestin to see how the bracket of death would look like if translated into the D1 world. Looking at both of their pre-selection national rankings and replacing the DIII team with their D1 counterpart. I put the teams that don't have a top 25 ranking as Unknown since I couldn't find it on the website. Based off USA today's polls by the way. In front of the team is their actual seeding in the the D1 tournament. I put the DIII equivalent afterward.
The bracket would look like this if you just sub in the D1's for the DIII's just based off of their national rankings and not their seedings. Goes through the first 2 rounds. Four 1 seeds, two 2 seeds, a three seed, a four seed, and a six seed, and multiple D1 national champion hopefuls.
2|Memphis #3 -->(Wheaton) ------------> 2|Memphis #3 -->(Wheaton) Won
Unknown(Fontebonne) vs
1|Louisville #5 -->(Platteville) -----------> 1|Louisville #5 -->(Platteville)
Unknown(Hope)
1|Pittsburgh #2 -->(Wash U) --------------> 1|Pittsburgh #2 -->(Wash U) Won
3|Syracuse #20 -->(Lawrence) vs
2|Duke #8 -->(Whitewater) ---------------> 2|Duke #8 -->(Whitewater)
4|Xavier #19 -->(Elmhurst)
1|North Carolina #1 -->(St.Thomas) ---------> 1|North Carolina #1 -->(St.Thomas) Won
Unknown(Aurora) vs
1|Connecticut #4 -->Stevens Point ----------> 1|Connecticut #4 -->Stevens Point
Unknown(Cornell)
6|Marquette #21 -->(Whitworth) -----------> 6Marquette #21 -->(Whitworth)
Unknown(Clairemont #32) vs
2Oklahoma #7 -->(Puget Sound) Won
RIDICULOUS!!! lol :o
Has any school ever had quite the day of d3 basketball that Washington U had yesterday? Both teams reaching the Final Four by beating undefeated, #1-ranked teams - WOW! :o
Maybe if I have some time, I was thinking in the same lines of you.
I was just thinking of the Top 4 seeds.
Three of the top four seeds, in my opinion, would be Wash U, Wheaton and Stevens Point based on RPIs, OWP and OOWP. Not sure about the 4th. St. Thomas' numbers are pretty low. Ithaca's numbers are similar to Wash. U's. More later...
Amazing how many experts have 8 of those teams as being potential champions or final four teams. Those 8 being, Louisville, North Carolina, Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, Oklahoma, Memphis, and possibly Duke. All of those 8 DIII teams who have those same national rankings probably thought they had a good chance of making it to the final four as well. Its a shame it had to come down to all of those great teams eating each other alive. Whats done is done, and I wish Wash U, aka:Pitt, good luck. Buena Vista turned out to be the DIII equivalent of St.Mary's in D1. Thats a Shame.
I do feel bad for the midwestern / western teams, especially this year. It seems like at least the NCAA could have placed the three WIAC teams and St. Thomas in a different bracket from the rest of the midwestern powers (I am new to this discussion so forgive me if that has already been explained). Just doesn't make any sense at all especially when some other schools were spread out and had to travel ...
What is interesting to note is that 3/4 final four teams are in some ways a year ahead of schedule -- Guilford, F&M, Richard Stockton all return nearly all of their key guys; they will likely all be legit top-five pre-season teams next year. Next year, for the first time in awhile, (and this is projecting wayyyy ahead of course) it seems like there may actually be some parity among the brackets, given how decimated the top squads from the traditional power conferences in the midwest and west (WIAC, CCIW, Wash U., top Ohio teams, just an unusual concentration of truly stellar seniors, even by that group's high standards) generally will be by graduation. Meanwhile, the eastern brackets will have a lot more powerful teams, as in addition to the three final four teams, I think New England will return to producing at least one true national contender (UMass Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams being the most likely contenders) after a very balanced, but unusually not-top-heavy, year in that region. Not much of a silver lining of course, consider that is is highly unlikely that 3/4 final four teams would have made it out of the bracket of death THIS year.
F&M, by the way, is a very likely possilibility to follow in the recent tradition of teams planting themselves in a few straight championship games (or at least final fours) (Williams, Stevens Point, Va Wesleyan, Amherst, Wash U ...). They may not even peak until two years from now. I have been aware of a few of their players for awhile: soph star James McNally is a beast, and was absolutely dominant for several years at a very strong NJ high school program, featuring great coaching (I actually attended that school back when it was producing three future Big East players, one of whom went on to the NBA) that played very tough competition-- I was following him hoping he'd end up in NESCAC as he also had the academics to get in anywhere. Their star frosh point guard also excelled at a very, very strong high school program that sends many guys to big-time Div I programs. Plus I think their other star, a D-I transfer, has another year of eligibility as well.
Washington U., in their 3rd Final Four in a row, loses ONE player. :o
I thought Wash U. lost two of its stars (Nading and Wallis)? No?
Wallis has a hardship year coming from last season, and it appears he intends to make use of it.
no - Wallis, while listed as a Senior this year, missed last year with a broken leg and torn ligaments in the third game of the season - he is planning on doing grad work and playing next year....
With all the talk about how to compare the d1 and d3 tournaments, I thought I'd translate the whole thing.
I ranked the d1 teams by starting with Louisville and moving around clockwise to Connecticut then backward ladder style until all 65 teams were ranked. I then removed the bottom five at-large teams (Arizona, Wisconsin, Dayton, Minnesota, and Michigan) to get to our number of 60.
I used the final d3hoops.com poll to rank teams, followed by teams no ranked, but receiving votes, and finally by some educated guessing for the last 20 or so. I know this is imperfect, but it can't be too far off and properly illustrates the comparison.
I then put all the teams into the d3 bracket where their counterpart was located (I did switch one set of teams to avoid two teams from the same conference playing in round one, per our general rules).
We had a West Bracket second round equivalent of:
UNC v Memphis; Pitt v Michigan State; Louisville v UCONN; and Purdue v Duke.
Ultimately it gave us a decent final four (Marquette, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma, and Texas), but certainly not what it could have been if things were even.
I've tried to attach a Word doc with all the matchups, etc, but I'm not sure it will work properly or not.
Thanks for Wallis info; wow, what a ridiculous run. Sounds like they are the favorites in this final four and then going into next year all over again. Has any team made four straight final fours in recent years? I think Amherst made three; maybe Platteville or I.Wesleyan during their heydeys?
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Yeah, I can't get the document to attach to the post.
Midwest Bracket
Arizona State
BYE
Wake Forest
Portland State
Washington
Alabama State
Tennessee
Ohio State
Villanova
E Tennessee State
Cleveland State
Boston College
Gonzaga
LSU
UCLA
Marquette
West Bracket
North Carolina
Stephen F Austin
Memphis
Texas A & M
Pittsburgh
Illinois
Michigan State
Florida State
Louisville
N Dakota State
Connecticut
American
Purdue
BYU
Duke
BYE
Northeast Bracket
Kansas
BYE
Chattanooga
Siena
Utah
Butler
Northern Iowa
VCU
Maryland
Morgan State
Syracuse
Binghamton
Oklahoma
Radford
Western Kentucky
West Virginia
East Bracket
Clemson
Mississippi State
USC
Temple
Texas
CSU-Northridge
Oklahoma State
Robert Morris
California
Morehead State
Xavier
Cornell
Utah State
Akron
Missouri
BYE
Quote from: nescac1 on March 16, 2009, 03:25:37 PMNext year, for the first time in awhile, (and this is projecting wayyyy ahead of course) it seems like there may actually be some parity among the brackets, given how decimated the top squads from the traditional power conferences in the midwest and west (WIAC, CCIW, Wash U., top Ohio teams, just an unusual concentration of truly stellar seniors, even by that group's high standards) generally will be by graduation.
The consensus top Ohio/Great Lakes team this season, John Carroll, returns their entire 10-man rotation next year. Capital will be decimated (loses 7 seniors), but look for very strong bounceback years from Wooster, Ohio Wesleyan, and Wittenberg out of the NCAC next year. Wooster in particular looks like they may return to national contender status next season, as they lose just one player and get back two key players (potential all-America point guard and seven-foot center) who missed this season with injuries.
Thanks. Obviously my national knowledge is far from complete ... I should not have mentioned Ohio as my memory of that was way off. CCIW and WIAC, the top three from each of those, I feel comfortable are all going to be between a little and a lot less imposing at the outset, and I think St. Thomas loses some good players as well. But then again, Illinois Wesleyan seems like it is poised to return to its traditional contender status. That being said, I still think the national top ten next year will end up being a lot more geographically representative, with the three eastern final four teams all looking pretty stacked, and some of the New England powers rebounding from a relatively down year for the region (or in Williams' case, down five years :(. )
Can anyone give me the tournaments at large bids and Tournament Qualifiers. I have some, but I cant find out who were at large bids and who won their conference tourneys.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 16, 2009, 03:25:37 PM
What is interesting to note is that 3/4 final four teams are in some ways a year ahead of schedule -- Guilford, F&M, Richard Stockton all return nearly all of their key guys; they will likely all be legit top-five pre-season teams next year. Next year, for the first time in awhile, (and this is projecting wayyyy ahead of course) it seems like there may actually be some parity among the brackets, given how decimated the top squads from the traditional power conferences in the midwest and west (WIAC, CCIW, Wash U., top Ohio teams, just an unusual concentration of truly stellar seniors, even by that group's high standards) generally will be by graduation. Meanwhile, the eastern brackets will have a lot more powerful teams, as in addition to the three final four teams, I think New England will return to producing at least one true national contender (UMass Dartmouth, Amherst, Williams being the most likely contenders) after a very balanced, but unusually not-top-heavy, year in that region. Not much of a silver lining of course, consider that is is highly unlikely that 3/4 final four teams would have made it out of the bracket of death THIS year.
F&M, by the way, is a very likely possilibility to follow in the recent tradition of teams planting themselves in a few straight championship games (or at least final fours) (Williams, Stevens Point, Va Wesleyan, Amherst, Wash U ...). They may not even peak until two years from now. I have been aware of a few of their players for awhile: soph star James McNally is a beast, and was absolutely dominant for several years at a very strong NJ high school program, featuring great coaching (I actually attended that school back when it was producing three future Big East players, one of whom went on to the NBA) that played very tough competition-- I was following him hoping he'd end up in NESCAC as he also had the academics to get in anywhere. Their star frosh point guard also excelled at a very, very strong high school program that sends many guys to big-time Div I programs. Plus I think their other star, a D-I transfer, has another year of eligibility as well.
The top CCIW teams definitely lose a ton:
* Wheaton loses Kent Raymond (1st Team All-CCIW) and Andy Wiele (2nd Team).
* Elmhurst loses Brent Ruch (1st Team) and Ryan Burks (2nd Team).
* Augustana loses Chandlor Collins (1st Team), Brett Wessels (3rd Team...1st Team last year), and 2 other starters.
* North Central loses Chris Drennan (1st Team), Matt Rogers (2nd Team), and key role players.
Most around the CCIW feel like the league was about as deep in 2009 as anytime in recent memory...that will not be the case next year. Carthage and Illinois Wesleyan will probably be picked 1 and 2 next year.
I know the top 3 WIAC teams (Stevens Point, Platteville, and Whitewater), which were all Top 10-caliber teams, lose just as much.
Conference strength is always a cyclical thing, and next season could be one the CCIW and WIAC are in rebuilding mode.
* Wheaton also loses seasoned veteran Ben Panner, who is a senior academically, but is a junior athletically after transferring from University of Texas.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 16, 2009, 03:25:37 PM
Next year, for the first time in awhile, (and this is projecting wayyyy ahead of course) it seems like there may actually be some parity among the brackets, given how decimated the top squads from the traditional power conferences in the midwest and west (WIAC, CCIW, Wash U., top Ohio teams, just an unusual concentration of truly stellar seniors, even by that group's high standards) generally will be by graduation.
Correction to Nescac1's thoughts...WashU possibly only loses one senior in Tyler Nading (1st Team All-UAA) to graduation (not at all "an unusual concentration" for any team). Sean Wallis has a year of eligibility and is sticking around from what I have heard. They should be set-up to make another great run next year.
Quote from: Wydown Blvd. on March 16, 2009, 10:48:13 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 16, 2009, 03:25:37 PM
Next year, for the first time in awhile, (and this is projecting wayyyy ahead of course) it seems like there may actually be some parity among the brackets, given how decimated the top squads from the traditional power conferences in the midwest and west (WIAC, CCIW, Wash U., top Ohio teams, just an unusual concentration of truly stellar seniors, even by that group's high standards) generally will be by graduation.
Correction to Nescac1's thoughts...WashU possibly only loses one senior in Tyler Nading (1st Team All-UAA) to graduation (not at all "an unusual concentration" for any team). Sean Wallis has a year of eligibility and is sticking around from what I have heard. They should be set-up to make another great run next year.
Sean Wallis still hasn't made a firm decision from what I've heard. But with Dylan Richter recovered from injury, Aaron Thompson (UAA Player of the Year), Cam Smith and all the other guys, we'll be in a good position.
Quote from: Scrub023 on March 16, 2009, 06:47:29 PM
Can anyone give me the tournaments at large bids and Tournament Qualifiers. I have some, but I cant find out who were at large bids and who won their conference tourneys.
RED means they have lost, regular season/conference tourney is complete and they are Pool C eligible.
Teams in red not crossed out got Pool C bids.
BLUE means they have won the Pool A bid from their respective conference
There are Pool A spots not listed because those conference tourney winners weren't listed in the regional rankings. You're on your own on that.
Teams in Green (Scranton and Elms-Maryville (TN) not listed) were Pool B teams
| Atlantic | REG | CONF. | RESULTS |
| Richard Stockton | 20-2 | NJAC | BEAT William Paterson; BEAT Rutgers-Newark in NJAC Final |
| Farmingdale State | 23-2 | SKY | BEAT SUNY-Old Westbury; LOST to St. Joseph's (L.I.) in SKY Finals |
Monclair State | 16-5 | NJAC | LOST to Rutgers-Newark in NJAC semis [/s] |
William Paterson | 20-6 | NJAC | LOST to Richard Stockton in NJAC semis |
| Baruch | 20-3 | CUNYAC | BEAT Lehman; LOST to Brooklyn in CUNYAC Final. |
| | | | |
| EAST | REG | CONF | RESULTS |
| Ithaca | 22-1 | E8 | LOST Nazareth in E8 semis |
| St. Lawrence | 17-5 | LL | BEAT Clarkson; LOST to RPI in Liberty League Final |
Hamilton | 16-2 | LL | LOST to RPI in LL semis |
Utica | 17-8 | E8 | LOST to Rochester Tech in E8 semis. |
Rochester | 16-8 | UAA | LOST to Carnegie Mellon on Sat. |
| | | | |
| Great Lakes | REG | CONF | RESULTS |
| John Carroll | 18-3 | OAC | BEAT Heidelberg; BEAT Muskingum; BEAT Capital in OAC Final |
| Capital | 20-3 | OAC | BEAT Mount Union, BEAT Ohio Northern; LOST to John Carroll in OAC Final |
| Carnegie Mellon | 14-5 | UAA | BEAT Rochester |
| Wooster | 18-4 | NCAC | BEAT Denison; BEAT Kenyon; BEAT Wabash in NCAC Final |
Calvin | 12-2 | MIAA | BEAT Trine; BEAT Olivet; LOST to Hope in MIAA Final |
Ohio Wesleyan | 16-6 | NCAC | LOST to Allegheny in NCAC quarterfinals |
| | | | |
| Middle Atlantic | REG | CONF | RESULTS |
St. Mary's (Md) | 18-2 | CAC | LOST to Marymount in CAC semis |
| Franklin & Marshall | 20-4 | CC | BEAT Muhlenberg; LOST to Gettysburg in Centennial Conference Final |
| DeSales | 18-5 | MACF | BEAT Wilkes; BEAT Manhattanville in MACF Final |
| Widener | 18-5 | MACC | BEAT Messiah; BEAT Elizabethtown in MACC Final. |
| Gwynedd-Mercy | 19-4 | CSAC | BEAT Baptist Bible; BEAT Cabrini CSAC Final. |
McDaniel | 16-6 | CC | LOST to Gettysburg in CC semis. |
Cabrini | 19-6 | CSAC | BEAT Keystone; LOST to Gwynedd-Mercy in CSAC Final. |
| Scranton | 18-6 | LAND | BEAT Catholic; BEAT Susquehanna in LAND Final. |
| | | | |
| Midwest | REG | CONF | RESULTS |
| Wheaton (IL) | 18-3 | CCIW | BEAT North Central (Ill); BEAT Elmhurst in CCIW Final |
| Washington U. | 21-2 | UAA | BEAT Chicago on Sat. |
| Elmhurst | 19-6 | CCIW | BEAT Augustana; LOST to Wheaton (IL) in CCIW Final on Sat. |
| Transylvania | 16-3 | HCAC | BEAT Anderson; BEAT Franklin in HCAC Final. |
| Lawrence | 17-6 | MWC | BEAT Carroll; BEAT Grinnell in MWC Final. |
Augustana | 17-7 | CCIW | LOST to Elmhurst in CCIW semis |
Carroll | 16-7 | MWC | LOST to Lawrence in MWC semis |
North Central (IL) | 14-7 | CCIW | LOST to Wheaton (IL) in CCIW semis. |
| | | | |
| Northeast | REG | CONF | RESULTS |
| Worcester Tech | 20-3 | NEWMAC | LOST to Springfield in NEWMAC semis |
| Middlebury | 20-2 | NESCAC | BEAT Bowdoin; BEAT Amherst in NESCAC Final |
| Elms | 23-1 | NECC | BEAT Wheelock; BEAT Becker in NECC Final (NECC is Pool B eligible) |
| Rhode Island Coll. | 21-4 | LEC | BEAT Southern Maine; BEAT Keene State; LOST to Mass-Dartmouth in LEC Final |
| Mass-Dartmouth | 20-3 | LEC | BEAT Mass-Boston; BEAT Western Connecticut; BEAT RIC in LEC Final |
| Salem State | 19-5 | MASCAC | BEAT Framingham State; LOST to Bridgewater State in MASCAC Final. |
| Bridgewater State | 17-4 | MASCAC | BEAT Westfield State; BEAT Salem State in MASCAC Final |
| Brandeis | 16-8 | UAA | BEAT New York University |
| Amherst | 18-5 | NESCAC | BEAT Williams; LOST to Middlebury in NESCAC Final |
Bowdoin | 17-8 | NESCAC | LOST to Middlebury in NESCAC semis |
| | | | |
| South | REG | CONF | RESULTS |
| Trinity (Texas) | 19-3 | SCAC | BEAT Sewanee; LOST to Southwestern in SCAC semis |
| Texas-Dallas | 19-4 | ASC | BEAT Sul Ross State; BEAT Mary Hardin-Baylor; BEAT Mississippi College in ASC Final. |
| Guilford | 20-4 | ODAC | LOST to Washington and Lee in ODAC quarters. |
Randolph-Macon | 18-2 | ODAC | LOST Virginia Wesleyan in ODAC quarters. |
| Centre | 16-4 | SCAC | BEAT Austin; BEAT Hendrix; BEAT Southwestern in SCAC Final |
McMurry | 17-5 | ASC | BEAT Texas-Tyler; LOST to Mississippi College in ASC semis |
DePauw | 15-5 | SCAC | LOST Southwestern in SCAC quarters. |
Roanoke | 14-6 | ODAC | LOST Hampden-Sydney in ODAC quarters. |
| | | | |
| West | REG | CONF | RESULTS |
| St. Thomas | 24-0 | MIAC | BEAT Gustavus Adolphus; BEAT Bethel in MIAC Final |
| Puget Sound | 20-0 | NWC | BEAT Lewis and Clark; LOST to Whitworth in NWC Final |
| UW-Stevens Point | 20-4 | WIAC | BEAT Oshkosh; BEAT Platteville in WIAC Final |
| UW-Whitewater | 20-4 | WIAC | BEAT River Falls; LOST to Platteville |
| UW-Platteville | 16-4 | WIAC | BEAT Whitewater; LOST to Stevens Point in WIAC Final |
Buena Vista | 20-2 | IIAC | LOST to Wartburg in IIAC semis |
| CMS | 16-4 | SCIAC | BEAT Caltech; BEAT Cal. Lutheran; BEAT Ponoma-Pitzer in SCIAC Final. |
| Whitworth | 18-5 | NWC | BEAT Linfield; BEAT Puget Sound in NWC Final |
| | | | |
| | | | |
WIAC Top 3
Stevens Point:
Losses: El-Amin, Beamish, Rortvedt, Wotachek
Returning: Moses, Hurd, Jenkins, Krull, Sweeny
Platteville:
Losses: Skemp, Lohoff, Richter, Tetchlag
Returning: Hanson, Shaw, Allen, Wall
Whitewater:
Losses: Goodwin, McKay, Vernon, Kolinski, Kingsby
Returning: Mitchell, Vines, Negri, Koski
2008-09 All-WIAC Men's Basketball Team
First Team
Name, School, Year, Position, Height, Hometown (High School)
D.J. Marsh, Oshkosh, Junior, Forward, 6-4,
Jeff Skemp, Platteville, Senior, Center, 6-10,
Myles McKay, Whitewater, Senior, Guard, 6-3,
Bryan Beamish, Stevens Point, Senior, Forward, 6-6,
Kori Vernon, Whitewater, Senior, Forward, 6-6,
Matt Moses, Stevens Point, Junior, Guard, 6-2,
Charlie Lohoff, Platteville, Senior, Guard, 6-3,
Dane Seckar-Anderson, Oshkosh, Senior, Forward, 6-7,
Khalifa El-Amin, Stevens Point, Senior, Guard, 5-8,
Dan Beyer, Eau Claire, Senior, Forward, 6-7,
Curt Hanson, Platteville, Junior, Guard, 6-1,
Pete Rortvedt, Stevens Point, Senior, Forward, 6-5,
Honorable Mention
Ryan Shea, Eau Claire, Sophomore, Guard, 6-4,
Jake Smith, Superior, Sophomore, Forward, 6-6,
Trevor Stratton, La Crosse, Junior, Guard, 6-2,
Matt Miller, Oshkosh, Senior, Guard, 5-9,
Dustin Mitchell, Whitewater, Junior, Center, 6-9,
Matt Goodwin, Whitewater, Senior, Guard, 6-1,
Jake Voeltz, River Falls, Sophomore, Forward, 6-4,
Jontae Koonkaew, River Falls, Sophomore, Guard, 5-9,
Aaron Anderson, River Falls, Freshman, Guard, 6-4,
Dwight Hill, Superior, Junior, Guard, 5-9,
THREE first team all conference players return next year. All but two of the 10 honorable mention players return.
In addition, this doesn't include the likes of Tony Mane (LX), Mike Shaw (PL), Louis Hurd (SP) Jerrell Enerson-Mathews (ST), and Dwight Hill (SUP), just to name a few.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has
ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
Thanks Old School.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Heres a full list of A, B and C pool teams
First Round Tourney matchups
POOL A v POOL A
Wooster (A) vs. Gettysburg (A)
Medaille (A) at John Carroll (A)
Averett (A) at Centre (A)
Fontbonne (A) at Wheaton (Ill) (A)
Washington U. (A) vs. Lawrence (A)
Aurora (A) at St. Thomas (Minn) (A)
UW-Stevens Point (A) vs. Cornell (A)
Claremont-Mudd-Scripps (A) at Whitworth (A)
St. Joseph's (Maine) (A) at Bridgewater State (A)
RPI (A) at Richard Stockton (A)
Virginia Wesleyan (A) at Widener (A)
St. Joseph's LI (A) at DeSales (A)
POOL A v POOL B
Elms (B) vs. SUNYIT (A)
POOL A v POOL C
Thomas More (A) at Capital (C)
Brockport State (A) vs. Carnegie Mellon (C)
Transylvania (A) vs. Guilford (C)
UW-Platteville (C) vs. Hope (A)
MIT (A) at Rhode Island College (C)
U. of New England (A) vs. Farmingdale State (C)
Brooklyn (A) at St. Lawrence (C)
Amherst (C) vs. Gwynedd-Mercy (A)
Salem State (C) vs. Rochester Tech (A)
Wesley (A) at Franklin & Marshall (C)
Husson (A) at Worcester Polytech (C)
Mass-Dartmouth (A) vs. Baruch (C)
POOL C v POOL C
UW-Whitewater (C) at Elmhurst (C)
POOL C v POOL B
Maryville (Tenn) (B) at Trinity (Texas) (C)
Brandeis (C) vs. Scranton (B)
TEAMS WITH 1st ROUND BYES
Puget Sound-(C)
Texas-Dallas-(A)
Ithaca-(C)
Middlebury-(A)
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Huh? Pat says the Salem Era which only dates back so far. Sager says ever, to mean not only the Salem era, but the time it wasn't played in Salem. It's a Division III website, we're guessing it's D3.
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in
any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Along with Coach K at Duke ('88-92) and Cincinnati (early 1960s) ;D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Mr. Y,
I was having a senior moment. :-[ Couldn't remember if they went to 4 in a row or not. I remember they had 2 or 3 then had to wait until Alcindor/Jabbar became a sophomore to resume a string of a few more. Just didn't know if they went to 4 in a row or not. Apparently your memory is better than mine. But I'm not as young as you. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ::)
Quote from: cave2bens on March 17, 2009, 09:56:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Along with Coach K at Duke ('88-92) and Cincinnati (early 1960s) ;D
So can Nancy Fahey at Wash.U., which is clearly what Mark Reichert was getting at in the first place.
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 09:59:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Mr. Y,
I was having a senior moment. :-[ Couldn't remember if they went to 4 in a row or not. I remember they had 2 or 3 then had to wait until Alcindor/Jabbar became a sophomore to resume a string of a few more. Just didn't know if they went to 4 in a row or not. Apparently your memory is better than mine. But I'm not as young as you. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. ::)
Once Alcindor/Jabbar got in, they proceded to win 7 TITLES in a row, so I assumed they made the FF! :D
BTW, I'm 60 - are you
sure you're older than me? ;)
Quote from: David Collinge on March 17, 2009, 10:00:06 PM
Quote from: cave2bens on March 17, 2009, 09:56:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Along with Coach K at Duke ('88-92) and Cincinnati (early 1960s) ;D
So can Nancy Fahey at Wash.U., which is clearly what Mark Reichert was getting at in the first place.
I was also thinking of Wooden as well. It may have happened four decades ago, but seven consecutive national championships (as Ypsi just beat me in mentioning) should make some sort of impression on a basketball fan. Tip to cave2bens for remembering Duke and Cincinnati. Odd thing I just learned, Oscar Robertson was only around for the first two Final Four trips and it was only after he left that they won the championship.
Is it a sign of the spread wide talent of Division III men's basketball that no team has gotten to four in a row, the same thing that makes the Top 25 more variable than the women's?
I think contrasting D3 to D1 is not useful here because of the "seeding factor". Obviously we see with the "bracket of death" as compared to the bracket that Louisville is in that a truely seeded bracket tends to allow the best teams to make it further in the tournament before coming against higher ranked competition. So, having a team not make it to the final four 4 consecutive trips is not necessarily a sign of widespread talent in D3. It may just be a consequence of the regional emphasis of the brackets. In many years, teams have to face tougher competition earlier in the tournament as compared to D1.
With that being said, I do believe there is parity and a lot of talent in Division III men's basketball. There is a lot of talent in the D1 level also, but those program's that are talented lose their players to this league thats kind of famous...the NBA (which is why we havent had men's D1 teams make 4 consecutive trips to the Final Four in recent history). Put Lebron on a Duke squad for 4 years, and I think they would have been quite alright...
(I would like to add that I believe many D1 women's teams have made it to 4 consecutive Final Fours including the last program being the 5 consecutive by LSU (2004-2008).)
Good points Wyndown, and add to it the restrictiveness of entry into the D3 tournament, we had a 48 team field for years.
Don't discount the home crowd factor in some of these tournaments. Over the span of 3 or 4 years you're going to play and have to beat someone on their home floor in a hostile environment.
The WIAC and NESCAC didn't come along untill later in the proceedings as well.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 10:07:02 PM
BTW, I'm 60 - are you sure you're older than me? ;)
Yes.
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 11:19:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 10:07:02 PM
BTW, I'm 60 - are you sure you're older than me? ;)
Yes.
Ah, the anonymity of the internet! :D
Based on nothing whatsoever, in compiling the PP I had always envisioned you as a twenty or thirty-something! ;D
I trust you're still young enough that you'll be back next year! :o ;)
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2009, 01:06:43 AM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 11:19:11 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 10:07:02 PM
BTW, I'm 60 - are you sure you're older than me? ;)
Yes.
Ah, the anonymity of the internet! :D
Based on nothing whatsoever, in compiling the PP I had always envisioned you as a twenty or thirty-something! ;D
I trust you're still young enough that you'll be back next year! :o ;)
I wish. And yes I will be back next year. I'm not
that old! I actually only have you by 255 days, so for a short time we will both be 61 ;D Also plus k for the "you make it to 2 sentences?" comment on the mortgage board. That was funny! ;)
Quote from: sac on March 17, 2009, 11:10:02 PM
The WIAC and NESCAC didn't come along untill later in the proceedings as well.
The WIAC (or WSUC back in the day) AS A WHOLE. Whitewater won the NCAA in 84 and the archives showed they played in 83. I know teams like Point and Eau Claire had dual membership but played in the NAIA for years. Obviously Whitewater chose the NCAA. Not sure how long those teams had dual membership though.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 17, 2009, 10:00:06 PM
Quote from: cave2bens on March 17, 2009, 09:56:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Along with Coach K at Duke ('88-92) and Cincinnati (early 1960s) ;D
So can Nancy Fahey at Wash.U., which is clearly what Mark Reichert was getting at in the first place.
Come on, people. Look at the topic tree at the top of this post: D3boards.com / Posting Up / Men's Basketball / Multi-Regional Topics / Post reply (Re: 2009 Division III NCAA Tournament)
When I say, "Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row," the terms of my statement are self-explanatory. This is a room in which the Final Four of Division III men's basketball is discussed.
+k Gregory!
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2009, 01:36:17 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 17, 2009, 10:00:06 PM
Quote from: cave2bens on March 17, 2009, 09:56:52 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2009, 09:16:58 PM
Quote from: magicman on March 17, 2009, 08:59:04 PM
Quote from: mark_reichert on March 17, 2009, 06:05:25 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2009, 04:05:36 PM
Nobody in the Salem era has made the Final Four four years in a row.
Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row.
...in Division III Men's Basketball.
See "Salem era" definitely says Division III Men's, no other explanations necessary. Your statement is only explains itself by where you are saying it.
Gregory,
It sounds to me as if someone is nitpicking the head nitpicker. ???. But it would be nice if you could come back and say: Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row in any division, hence my use of the word nobody. I don't know if that's true or not. I can't think of any team that did off the top of my head but I'm sure if anyone would know the answer to that it would be you.
I'd imagine John Wooden would also know the answer! ;)
Along with Coach K at Duke ('88-92) and Cincinnati (early 1960s) ;D
So can Nancy Fahey at Wash.U., which is clearly what Mark Reichert was getting at in the first place.
Come on, people. Look at the topic tree at the top of this post: D3boards.com / Posting Up / Men's Basketball / Multi-Regional Topics / Post reply (Re: 2009 Division III NCAA Tournament)
When I say, "Nobody has ever made the Final Four four years in a row," the terms of my statement are self-explanatory. This is a room in which the Final Four of Division III men's basketball is discussed.
Right, I was nitpicking. On the other hand, it led to counterexamples and Wydown Blvd and sac have chipped in their opinions on why no Division III men's team has done so.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 18, 2009, 10:31:44 AM
Quote from: sac on March 17, 2009, 11:10:02 PM
The WIAC and NESCAC didn't come along untill later in the proceedings as well.
The WIAC (or WSUC back in the day) AS A WHOLE. Whitewater won the NCAA in 84 and the archives showed they played in 83. I know teams like Point and Eau Claire had dual membership but played in the NAIA for years. Obviously Whitewater chose the NCAA. Not sure how long those teams had dual membership though.
Whitewater also won it all in 1989 averaging, during the tournament, a cool body temp (98.8 ppg) on offense to win it all!!
Yeah...I was just pointing out the earliest I saw them listed...not sure how long they've actually been in the NCAA :D
Just updating!
Maybe njachoopsfan can come up with some more cool polls for us!
TEAMS BY CONFERENCE
| CON | TEAM |
| AMCC | Medaille |
| ASC | Mary Hardin-Baylor |
| ASC | Texas-Dallas |
| CAC | St. Mary's (Md) |
| CAC | Wesley |
| CCC | Gordon |
| CCIW | Carthage |
| CCIW | Illinois Wesleyan |
| CCIW | Wheaton |
| Centennial | Frank & Marsh |
| CSAC | Cabrini |
| CUNYAC | Brooklyn |
| Empire 8 | Nazareth |
| Empire 8 | St. John Fisher |
| GNAC | Albertus Magnus |
| GSAC | Maryville |
| HCAC | Anderson |
| HCAC | Defiance |
| IIAC | Central |
| IND | Chapman |
| LAND | Merchant Marine |
| LEC | Rhode Island C. |
| Liberty | St. Lawrence |
| MACC | Albright |
| MACC | Lycoming |
| MACF | DeSales |
| MASCAC | Bridgewater St. |
| MIAA | Hope |
| MIAC | Carleton |
| MIAC | St. Thomas |
| MWC | St. Norbert |
| NAC | Maine-Farmington |
| NathCon | Aurora |
| NCAC | Wooster |
| NEAC | SUNYIT |
| NESCAC | Middlebury |
| NESCAC | Williams |
| NEWMAC | Clark |
| NEWMAC | MIT |
| NJAC | Richard Stockton |
| NJAC | Rutgers-Newark |
| NJAC | William Paterson |
| NWC | Whitworth |
| OAC | John Carroll |
| OAC | Wilmington |
| ODAC | Eastern Menn. |
| ODAC | Guilford |
| ODAC | Randolph-Macon |
| ODAC | Virginia Wesleyan |
| PrAC | Grove City |
| SCAC | Centre |
| SCIAC | CMS |
| SKY | SUNY-Purchase |
| SLIAC | Westminster |
| SUNYAC | Oneonta State |
| SUNYAC | Plattsburgh St. |
| UAA | Brandeis |
| UAA | Washington U. |
| USAC | Chris. Newport |
| WIAC | UW-Stevens Point |
| WIAC | UW-Whitewater |
TEAMS BY STATE
| STATE | TEAM | CON |
| California | Chapman | IND |
| California | CMS | SCIAC |
| Connecticut | Albertus Magnus | GNAC |
| Delaware | Wesley | CAC |
| Illinois | Aurora | NathCon |
| Illinois | Illinois Wesleyan | CCIW |
| Illinois | Wheaton | CCIW |
| Indiana | Anderson | HCAC |
| Iowa | Central | IIAC |
| Kentucky | Centre | SCAC |
| Maine | Maine-Farmington | NAC |
| Maryland | St. Mary's (Md) | CAC |
| Massachusetts | Brandeis | UAA |
| Massachusetts | Bridgewater St. | MASCAC |
| Massachusetts | Clark | NEWMAC |
| Massachusetts | Gordon | CCC |
| Massachusetts | MIT | NEWMAC |
| Massachusetts | Williams | NESCAC |
| Michigan | Hope | MIAA |
| Minnesota | Carleton | MIAC |
| Minnesota | St. Thomas | MIAC |
| Missouri | Washington U. | UAA |
| Missouri | Westminster | SLIAC |
| New Jersey | Richard Stockton | NJAC |
| New Jersey | Rutgers-Newark | NJAC |
| New Jersey | William Paterson | NJAC |
| New York | Brooklyn | CUNYAC |
| New York | Medaille | AMCC |
| New York | Merchant Marine | LAND |
| New York | Nazareth | Empire 8 |
| New York | Oneonta State | SUNYAC |
| New York | Plattsburgh St. | SUNYAC |
| New York | St. John Fisher | Empire 8 |
| New York | St. Lawrence | Liberty |
| New York | SUNYIT | NEAC |
| New York | SUNY-Purchase | SKY |
| North Carolina | Guilford | ODAC |
| Ohio | Defiance | HCAC |
| Ohio | John Carroll | OAC |
| Ohio | Wilmington | OAC |
| Ohio | Wooster | NCAC |
| Pennsylvania | Albright | MACC |
| Pennsylvania | Cabrini | CSAC |
| Pennsylvania | DeSales | MACF |
| Pennsylvania | Frank & Marsh | Centennial |
| Pennsylvania | Grove City | PrAC |
| Pennsylvania | Lycoming | MACC |
| Rhode Island | Rhode Island C. | LEC |
| Tennessee | Maryville | GSAC |
| Texas | Mary Hardin-Baylor | ASC |
| Texas | Texas-Dallas | ASC |
| Vermont | Middlebury | NESCAC |
| Virginia | Chris. Newport | USAC |
| Virginia | Eastern Menn. | ODAC |
| Virginia | Randolph-Macon | ODAC |
| Virginia | Virginia Wesleyan | ODAC |
| Washington | Whitworth | NWC |
| Wisconsin | Carthage | CCIW |
| Wisconsin | St. Norbert | MWC |
| Wisconsin | UW-Stevens Point | WIAC |
| Wisconsin | UW-Whitewater | WIAC |
ODAC wins the battle of the Conferences with 4 teams
CCIW and NJAC tie for 2nd place with 3 each
New York wins the battle of the States with the most conferences 8 and the most teams with 10
Pennslyvania is next with 6 teams from 5 conferences followed by Massachusetts with 6 teams from 4 conferences
Since it was at Bridgewater, it's gotta be considered an upset.
Maine-Farmington 64 Bridgewater State 63 Final
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 04, 2010, 08:52:10 PM
Since it was at Bridgewater, it's gotta be considered an upset.
Maine-Farmington 64 Bridgewater State 63 Final
And I'm 0-1 in the bracket. Awesome.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2010, 08:59:00 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 04, 2010, 08:52:10 PM
Since it was at Bridgewater, it's gotta be considered an upset.
Maine-Farmington 64 Bridgewater State 63 Final
And I'm 0-1 in the bracket. Awesome.
If it is any comfort, I suspect 97% of pickers are now 0-1. :P
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 04, 2010, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2010, 08:59:00 PM
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 04, 2010, 08:52:10 PM
Since it was at Bridgewater, it's gotta be considered an upset.
Maine-Farmington 64 Bridgewater State 63 Final
And I'm 0-1 in the bracket. Awesome.
If it is any comfort, I suspect 97% of pickers are now 0-1.
Now I'm 0-2 and I think I lost a Sweet 16 team.
Maine-Farmington 64 Bridgewater State 63 Final
Wheaton (Ill.) 73 Mary Hardin-Baylor 58 Final
Thunder!.......Down under?
Sorry Hoops, but the 'smart' money was always on Wheaton. ;D I've got 'em beating UT-Dallas as well. ;)
CMS and Chapman are putting on a good show out west.
Maine Farmington beats Bridgewater State (http://www.bscbears.com/sports/mbkb/2009-10/news/MB030410)
Eric Taylor had 37 fantasy points, not that anyone took a Maine-Farmington player. Bridgewater's Nicolas Motta would've given ya 42 points on 20 pts, 7 boards, 4 3-pters, 4 dimes and 7 steals.
I almost took Panner from Wheaton. He had 32 fantasy points, I think.
And in our first official scoring of the tourney, Tim McGrary gets 31 points for Sager
| POSTER | PLAYER | TEAM | 3made | FTmiss | Reb | Pts | Ast | TO | Blk | Stl | Tot |
| Sager | McCrary | Wheaton | 0 | 1 | 10 | 17 | 5 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 31 |
Chapman storms their own court after winning a game in which they were the favorites by double digits. Is that three strikes or just two?
Also, does everyone voting in this poll understand that Guilford is not actually in Virginia?
Does that mean that they shouldn't be in the ODAC?
Ever since they come up with these 6'11" guys that can PLAY, the rest of the conference probably has some doubts! ;D
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2010, 11:51:46 PM
Chapman storms their own court after winning a game in which they were the favorites by double digits. Is that three strikes or just two?
They lost to CMS by one point earlier in the season. Who would make them double digit favorites?
What a shame for you to make a comment like that.
Chapman had around 2,000 in attendance. Included were several CMS supporters. It was a closer game than the score. Look at the stats...they speak for themself.
Both CMS and Chapman supporters stood and cheered the entire game. Excitement filled the air. Both teams played well and could have won.
Additionally, this was the first time CU had participated in the playoffs. CU students, players and coaches have weathered all the negative comments posted on this board for over 2 years. CU did well, and if the students choose to celebrate, go for it. Do you mock the D1students for storming the court.
I really feel that you were out of line for your comments regarding the CU campus.
I met the Oxy broadcast team, as well as the CMS guys. I am sorry that I could not listen to their entire broadcast, although I did stand next to them for a while. They seemed like they really knew what they were doing.
This post is directed to Hoops Fan!
Actually, for what it's worth, there is a lot of mocking of D-I students who storm the court.
Actually, if that is the worst thing they ever do, they will all turn out to be an asset to society. I have no problem with what they did, and would feel the same way had CMS won the game, which they very well could have. It was a natural ending to a very exciting D3 match-up!
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2010, 12:56:53 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 04, 2010, 11:51:46 PM
Chapman storms their own court after winning a game in which they were the favorites by double digits. Is that three strikes or just two?
They lost to CMS by one point earlier in the season. Who would make them double digit favorites?
That's my poor grammar. I couldn't figure out exactly how to order the clauses. I meant that they won by double digits.
I understand they're excited. I listened to the entire second half. I know the game was close, but it just screams "happy to be here." D1 fans rush the court far too often. If you win a championship (i'll even take a conference championship) or if you beat a top ranked team when you're a big underdog or if you come back from down 20 - those are good reasons, but there should be a limit.
I'm not upset that they celebrated. Chapman has been looking for this moment for a while, but rushing the court was a step too far.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 08:44:20 AM
I understand they're excited. I listened to the entire second half. I know the game was close, but it just screams "happy to be here." D1 fans rush the court far too often. If you win a championship (i'll even take a conference championship) or if you beat a top ranked team when you're a big underdog or if you come back from down 20 - those are good reasons, but there should be a limit.
I'm not upset that they celebrated. Chapman has been looking for this moment for a while, but rushing the court was a step too far.
I'm not a huge fan of storming the court (see below), so don't get me wrong here. But I don't have any problem with Chapman being in "happy to be here" mode. As far as the NCAA Division III tournament goes, they are not exactly Wash U or Wittenberg. (How many total tournament wins do they have? Has to be in single digits?) If the Chapman fans have that "happy to be here" mentality going, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Now, I will say that what I hate about storming the court is the impact it has on the opposing team. Last Saturday night Carthage beat Illinois Wesleyan in a thrilling CCIW conference championship game that came down the final possession. The Carthage students stormed the court and engulfed the team in a mob at center court. Meanwhile IWU's entire team - which had just lost a heartbreaker and probably just wanted to get back in the locker room - is standing there near the scorer's table waiting to shake the hands of their opponets. The Titans had to wait out the celebration for about 3 minutes before the Carthage players got out of the mob and came over. I didn't fault the Carthage players, but I found the whole thing kind of unfortunate.
I wouldn't be opposed if schools (or even the NCAA) adopted a "no storming the court" policy, and somehow enforced it. All things considered, I just don't think the act supports the NCAA's sportsmanship philosophy (which they read before every tournament game).
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2010, 09:36:32 AM
I wouldn't be opposed if schools (or even the NCAA) adopted a "no storming the court" policy, and somehow enforced it. All things considered, I just don't think the act supports the NCAA's sportsmanship philosophy (which they read before every tournament game).
Great post, especially about the "handshake aspect". That must have been very awkward. +1!
Pat Forde's storming the court rules (it's from 2006): http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2306416
I knew a high school principal who tried to control his students who were needlessly storming the court (it was like the 4th or 5th time in a season). He'd walk out with a pad of detention slips and start handing them out to every student there. That cleared the court fast.
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2010, 09:36:32 AM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 08:44:20 AM
I understand they're excited. I listened to the entire second half. I know the game was close, but it just screams "happy to be here." D1 fans rush the court far too often. If you win a championship (i'll even take a conference championship) or if you beat a top ranked team when you're a big underdog or if you come back from down 20 - those are good reasons, but there should be a limit.
I'm not upset that they celebrated. Chapman has been looking for this moment for a while, but rushing the court was a step too far.
I'm not a huge fan of storming the court (see below), so don't get me wrong here. But I don't have any problem with Chapman being in "happy to be here" mode. As far as the NCAA Division III tournament goes, they are not exactly Wash U or Wittenberg. (How many total tournament wins do they have? Has to be in single digits?) If the Chapman fans have that "happy to be here" mentality going, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Now, I will say that what I hate about storming the court is the impact it has on the opposing team. Last Saturday night Carthage beat Illinois Wesleyan in a thrilling CCIW conference championship game that came down the final possession. The Carthage students stormed the court and engulfed the team in a mob at center court. Meanwhile IWU's entire team - which had just lost a heartbreaker and probably just wanted to get back in the locker room - is standing there near the scorer's table waiting to shake the hands of their opponets. The Titans had to wait out the celebration for about 3 minutes before the Carthage players got out of the mob and came over. I didn't fault the Carthage players, but I found the whole thing kind of unfortunate.
I wouldn't be opposed if schools (or even the NCAA) adopted a "no storming the court" policy, and somehow enforced it. All things considered, I just don't think the act supports the NCAA's sportsmanship philosophy (which they read before every tournament game).
What do you feel about a team mobbing their teammate who just hit the game-winning shot?
I went to a UCONN-Syracuse game at the Carrier Dome when I was in college. UConn was up 20 at the half and Syracuse came back to win by nearly that much. It was almost impossible not to be carried onto the court with the swell of people.
That seemed like an appropriate moment. I just don't know that I could justify storming the court for a first round game, especially when it wasn't an upset and there were not last second heroics.
They could adopt the "Lebron rule" and just have all the players walk off the court at the buzzer.
Haven't been in the tournament in more than 20 years, don't have a conference title to play for, feeling of being snubbed from the dance in the past, beating a team you lost to earlier in the season to survive and advance.
I have no problem with the court being stormed there. When else has Chapman had the opportunity?
Hoops fan:
How closely did you listen to the second half? The game wasn't decided until just over a minute to go, and even then it could have gone the other way. The winning margin is/was very misleading.
Titan Q:
CU may not be a dynasty in D3 basketball, but for a couple of days they will have the highest tourney winning percentage of any school at 100%. Yes, CU has played 1 D3 tourney game and won one.
(Smile, that is just a little Norweign humor). I too thought that you did a good post (if I could figure out how to give you a plus one karma, I would do it.
By the way, I started listening to some of IWU and other conference games this year. Tough conference and good talent. Good luck next year. A friend of mine's son was a senior on the Elmsford
team this year. Now, that is someone I really felt for. But, they were young and inexperienced.
That's not exactly an epidemic situation there and we may be giving it more time than it warrants.
All I know is that I see less and less professional security staff at games these days. A student volunteer wearing a shirt that reads "Security" on the back does not a security guard make. If you have a big game coming and think it might be a problem, hire enough trained personnel to handle crowd control for the night. Not sure if this was the issue at CU or not but I can give them a pass here.
Additionally, the handshake requirement should be waived for lengthy celebrations and just let the other team head to the showers.
Wash U does it in a proper way - the students 'storm' the end of the court... they wait for the players to shake the hands of the opponents, then the Wash U players have to go through the student Mob, getting their Backs pounded as the Wash U fight song is sung - both the good sportsmanship and the celebration are accomplished - good way to get it done.....
Rick Reilly chimed in today too, but I don't think he was referring to Chapman specifically:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=4961547
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 05, 2010, 10:27:02 AM
What do you feel about a team mobbing their teammate who just hit the game-winning shot?
Emotion is part of the game. When someone hits a buzzer beater or whatever, I'm all for his teammates jumping on him and celebrating...as long as the team collects itself quickly and shakes the opponents' hands. I definitely am not suggesting that emotion like that be removed from the end of the game.
I think the storming the court thing is different, because that seems to be something the host school can actually control. (Granted, in D3 it is not easy due to the proximity of the fans to the court.)
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2010, 12:19:32 PM
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 05, 2010, 10:27:02 AM
What do you feel about a team mobbing their teammate who just hit the game-winning shot?
Emotion is part of the game. When someone hits a buzzer beater or whatever, I'm all for his teammates jumping on him and celebrating...as long as the team collects itself quickly and shakes the opponents' hands. I definitely am not suggesting that emotion like that be removed from the end of the game.
I think the storming the court thing is different, because that seems to be something the host school can actually control. (Granted, in D3 it is not easy due to the proximity of the fans to the court.)
So what if the students want to storm the court? No harm, no foul. disrupting the post-game handshake line does not fall under the "harm" category. Make fun of the kids afterward if they were dumb, but don't try to police their behavior a certain way if the win doesn't fall under your criteria.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 05, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
Quote from: Titan Q on March 05, 2010, 09:36:32 AM
I wouldn't be opposed if schools (or even the NCAA) adopted a "no storming the court" policy, and somehow enforced it. All things considered, I just don't think the act supports the NCAA's sportsmanship philosophy (which they read before every tournament game).
Great post, especially about the "handshake aspect". That must have been very awkward. +1!
Another reason to discourage storming the court/field...how often have you seen this happen because the crowd thinks the game is over when it's not? Usually this is due to clock operator error, but sometimes a foul occurs as time expires and fans are so anxious to storm the surface that they don't hear the whistle or see the flag (Yes, I'm thinking football too). Then they have to clear the playing surface and resume the game.
It's completely unfair to all involved. I'm waiting for the NCAA and their member conferences to tell officials to start penalizing teams whose fans create the problem
the first time. When some school loses because the fans surrendered a technical foul or a 15-yard penalty, then we'll see it stop.
I'm not sure if I should be amused or appalled by this lengthy conversation regarding the "storming of the court" at the end of the CMS - Chapman game. But in any case, here is my take on it:
Sportsmanship?? Look, these players are adults, not kindergartners. If their self-esteem is going to be crushed because they lost an important game and fans of the other team, at home, go down to the court to congratulate their players and celebrate, then I'm sorry to say but they are ill-prepared for what life has in store for them.
When the Chapman students came down to the court, there was not even the inkling of a taunt at the other team or at the CMS fans. All their energy was focused in hugging their team and celebrating this all important win. From the stands, it looked like a good natured, fun and joyful celebration.
You also have to understand the circumstances. As an Independent, Chapman doesn't get to play for the purpose of winning a Conference (which would also warrant the storming of a court in my opinion; doesn't the winning team cut the net in such circumstances, with all the fans watching? ). As an Independent, every game is for the single goal of winning so you have a chance to make it to the playoffs. Nothing more.
It's been 32 years since Chapman won a playoff game. That was in Division II. This year marks the first time they make the playoffs as a D3 school, and they happen to win! In addition, Chapman has been bashed, trashed and abused by many on these boards and guess what?? The players know it, the fans know it, the entire coaching staff knows it. For the fan, it was the joy of finally being recognized, a way to tell the World of D3 basketball: "you see, we have gone through hell and back, but we are much better than most of you want to give us credit for and we are proud to be part of the Chapman family!" I don't want to use the word, because it may stir controversy, but in some ways, it was vindication.
I also can't believe it went on this long. I don't think its unsportsmanlike, I just mentioned that the game didn't warrant it. It seems like every d1 school is doing it nearly every game these days, so it's not unpopular or uncommon. I guess I was just using this latest example to make a comment about how routine it's become, which is, in itself, probably a comment about how obsessed we are as a society with instant gratification.
I'd make the same comment if WashU wins sectionals and another trip to the final four on its home court and the fans rush the court. (Reprieve for a buzzer beater, because those are just exciting, especially in a one and done situation - there's lots of leeway there.)
On a side note, perhaps I'm just out of touch, but maybe Chapman feels a lot more maligned or under-appreciated than they should. Oxybob aside, I think most of us understand the challenges they have with geography and scheduling and don't begrudge them their excitement.
Quote from: hopefan on March 05, 2010, 11:32:58 AM
Wash U does it in a proper way - the students 'storm' the end of the court... they wait for the players to shake the hands of the opponents, then the Wash U players have to go through the student Mob, getting their Backs pounded as the Wash U fight song is sung - both the good sportsmanship and the celebration are accomplished - good way to get it done.....
When is the baby powder deployed?*
;)
*Archived reference ... http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=6789.msg1172530#msg1172530
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on February 08, 2010, 10:44:12 AM
Quote from: AO on February 07, 2010, 11:11:17 PM
Great seats for uninterested reporters
Don't know one "reporter" who is at the Final Four who is uninterested. Whether its those following the teams there... the local broadcasters... those from CBS College Sports... or the staff at D3hoops.com... every person with a press pass seems interested in every aspect of the game.
Sure... I think the bleachers could be moved closer a bit... but that also means more powder from the Wash U fans will get on the court! :)
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 03:02:29 PM
I'd make the same comment if WashU wins sectionals and another trip to the final four on its home court and the fans rush the court.
If St. Thomas comes out Wash U. won't host as it will add a flight. Look for Wheaton to host, in that scenario, if they get past UT-Dallas. UWSP would also be considered.
Point would host before Wheaton.
I know that the NCAA loves geography, but Wheaton hosting over St. Thomas, Wash U., and lets say Hope, would be a travesty.
Down go the Tommies - Anderson proves they belong.
entertaining but sloppy first game in stevens point. hope looked like they'd run away with it in the first half, up by 11, but norbs cuts it to 5 at the break. norbs plays tough in the 2nd half to hold off the dutchmen.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 08:47:18 PM
Down go the Tommies - Anderson proves they belong.
Scoreboard has the Tommies winning by 2 - did the score get reversed?
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2010, 08:57:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 08:47:18 PM
Down go the Tommies - Anderson proves they belong.
Scoreboard has the Tommies winning by 2 - did the score get reversed?
I'm not sure. I was watching the last two minutes and thought Anderson had won - I suppose I could have read the scoreboard wrong.
Anderson website says they lost by 2
AU won 73-71. St. Thomas missed a 3 of the back off the rim at the buzzer
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 09:04:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2010, 08:57:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 08:47:18 PM
Down go the Tommies - Anderson proves they belong.
Scoreboard has the Tommies winning by 2 - did the score get reversed?
I'm not sure. I was watching the last two minutes and thought Anderson had won - I suppose I could have read the scoreboard wrong.
Livestats from Anderson have them winning - http://sportsinfo.anderson.edu/xlive.htm. I'm pretty sure I saw St. Thomas miss the last shot.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 09:08:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 09:04:26 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 05, 2010, 08:57:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 08:47:18 PM
Down go the Tommies - Anderson proves they belong.
Scoreboard has the Tommies winning by 2 - did the score get reversed?
I'm not sure. I was watching the last two minutes and thought Anderson had won - I suppose I could have read the scoreboard wrong.
Livestats from Anderson have them winning - http://sportsinfo.anderson.edu/xlive.htm. I'm pretty sure I saw St. Thomas miss the last shot.
http://d3scoreboard.com/HCAC/mbkb/2009-10/schedule (http://d3scoreboard.com/HCAC/mbkb/2009-10/schedule)
Lists a 73-71 victory for St. Thomas.
Both the HCAC and MIAC boards have posts saying Anderson 73, Tommies 71, so I'm assuming Scoreboard has the score backwards.
Somebody is wrong.
watched the whole thing, anderson won it
OMG this is like twilight zone. Now Tommies changed their site to a loss, but AU site also says they lost.
I believe you AUStudent
I'm sure Anderson won. I was watching, the scoreboard threw me off, but the Tommies did indeed go down. Not a good last week to the season for them.
Speaking of upsets, Clark is hanging with Albright and WUNYIT has a double digit lead on Plattsburgh, both in the second half.
EMU survives a bit of a scare from Centre and wins 63-53.
carleton hanging close with stevens point. its 32-24 at the break.
Albertus Magnus is up five on William Patterson with 12 to go in the game.
Clark beats Albright 69-67.
St. John Fisher survives a scare and beats Brooklyn by 4.
Wooster ousts Grove City 63-52 (not 64-52 as you'll see on the LiveStats) and advances to the much-discussed 2nd round matchup with Wisconsin-Whitewater. Could this be the one game ever where Mount Union fans pull for the Fighting Scots? :D
SUNYIT is still up on Plattsburgh. That was my toughest matchup to call in the pickem, so tough I forgot to make a pick - I had to have Pat change it for me. I went with Plattsburgh, but I really thought SUNYIT had a decent squad this year. Even if Plattsburgh comes back, I wish I had risked it.
SUNYIT hits their FTs and knocks out Plattsburgh. Big win for them.
Albertus Magnus knocks out William Patterson by two points. This Magnus team could be dangerous, this year and the next two. Their best player is a sophomore and they lose only one guy next year.
It hasn't been posted yet...
Middlebury survives a scare from Gordon, winning 64-57. It was a two possession game with a minute to go.
Oh, and Magnus' win was on a 60 foot buzzer beater. That's when you storm the court.
Magnus won with a shot behind half court at the buzzer, after a shot with 1.6 seconds left had put william paterson up 1. Put that on the buzzer beater board! It looked like a 60 footer, but the quality of the pictures is bad, but it was defintely behind half court.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 05, 2010, 10:26:47 PM
Oh, and Magnus' win was on a 60 foot buzzer beater. That's when you storm the court.
Paterson fans were already getting ready to storm the court after the shot with 1.6 seconds left had put them up 1, but that shot took all the air out of the gym. Crazy ending. 3 lead changes in the last 15-20 s (and 2 in the last 1.6 seconds).
WashU only up four on Westminster with seven minutes to go. I thought Westminster was a squad coming into this season, but they had trouble in conference. They seem to be peaking at the right time.
Point survives by one. Barely. Wow.
The committee finally creates a bracket spreading out the talent... and we are all treated to some thrilling games.
See what happens when they listen to us ;)
WashU hits a killer three, up 6 with a minute to go.
All the ODAC (4), CCIW (3), and WIAC (2) schools advance. WashU can make it a sweep for the "power" conferences if they can pull out the win.
WashU wins. UAA (2) sweeps in the first round also.
MARCH MADNESS @ its best!! No "Lucky Losers" tonight!! Certainly the most competitive first round i've seen @ this level!! Good luck to y'all winners manana!! :o
Carthage is up 20 with a minute to go and WashU seems to have pulled it out. No more upsets, but a lot of closer games than we expected.
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 10:50:48 PM
All the ODAC (4), CCIW (3), and WIAC (2) schools advance. WashU can make it a sweep for the "power" conferences if they can pull out the win.
...and OAC (2). Once considered by all a power conference, can regain some glory if they can take out one or two of the ODAC powers tomorrow.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2010, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 10:50:48 PM
All the ODAC (4), CCIW (3), and WIAC (2) schools advance. WashU can make it a sweep for the "power" conferences if they can pull out the win.
...and OAC (2). Once considered by all a power conference, can regain some glory if they can take out one or two of the ODAC powers tomorrow.
Conversely, NJAC goes 0-3. Any other conferences with 2+ teams that went 0-x?
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2010, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 10:50:48 PM
All the ODAC (4), CCIW (3), and WIAC (2) schools advance. WashU can make it a sweep for the "power" conferences if they can pull out the win.
...and OAC (2). Once considered by all a power conference, can regain some glory if they can take out one or two of the ODAC powers tomorrow.
Conversely, NJAC goes 0-3. Any other conferences with 2+ teams that went 0-x?
St. Thomas and Carleton both lost.
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 10:55:06 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 05, 2010, 10:53:17 PM
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 10:50:48 PM
All the ODAC (4), CCIW (3), and WIAC (2) schools advance. WashU can make it a sweep for the "power" conferences if they can pull out the win.
...and OAC (2). Once considered by all a power conference, can regain some glory if they can take out one or two of the ODAC powers tomorrow.
Conversely, NJAC goes 0-3. Any other conferences with 2+ teams that went 0-x?
MIAC goes 0-2 losing two close games... UST to Anderson and Carleton to UWSP
So the ODAC, CCIW, WIAC, UAA, and OAC combine for 13 of the 29 first round wins. Not bad.
Oh yeah, the NESCAC also went 1-0, but they will have 2 teams in the round of 32 with Williams' bye.
So there are a few matchups between undefeated conferences tomorrow: JCU @ Guilford, Wilmington @ EMU, and IWU @ WashU.
The MAC-Commonwealth went 0-2 with Albright and Lycoming losing.
I hope there was video of the Albertus Magnus game-winner, and if so, I hope it will be a buzzer-beater feature! Sounds wild ...
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 11:02:44 PM
So there are a few matchups between undefeated conferences tomorrow: JCU @ Guilford, Wilmington @ EMU, and IWU @ WashU.
Whitewater @ Wooster is also a matchup between undefeated conferences. ;D
Quote from: nescac1 on March 06, 2010, 05:09:16 AM
I hope there was video of the Albertus Magnus game-winner, and if so, I hope it will be a buzzer-beater feature! Sounds wild ...
It won't be from the official camera from the stream, there were fans standing in front of it. Right now, I think the only people who got a good look at the shot were those there in person.
The broadcast had a second camera at floor level with the shot coming right at it. Hopefully that one has the shot.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 06, 2010, 09:22:21 AM
The broadcast had a second camera at floor level with the shot coming right at it. Hopefully that one has the shot.
Let's hope.
Men's Second Round: St. Norbert at UW-Stevens Point
Women's Second Round: UW-Stevens Point at St. Norbert
I'm sure it's probably happened before, but that's still pretty cool.
Wheaton IL can make the ASC 0-2 tonight.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 06, 2010, 10:25:44 AM
Men's Second Round: St. Norbert at UW-Stevens Point
Women's Second Round: UW-Stevens Point at St. Norbert
I'm sure it's probably happened before, but that's still pretty cool.
And both SNC squads beat MIAA schools to set up that match-up!
5 hosts go down in the first round.
Mary Hardin-Baylor loses to Wheaton
Bridgewater St. loses to Maine-Farmington
Plattsburgh St. loses to SUNYIT
Albright loses to Clark
William Paterson loses to Albertus Magnus
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 06, 2010, 10:42:05 AM
5 hosts go down in the first round.
| Mary Hardin-Baylor loses to Wheaton. | | | Wheaton IL goes to UT-Dallas. |
| Bridgewater St. loses to Maine-Farmington. | | | Maine-Farmington goes to Williams. |
| Plattsburgh St. loses to SUNYIT. | | | SUNYIT plays Medaille at Plattsburgh St. |
| Albright loses to Clark. | | | Clark plays Randolph-Macon at Albright. |
| William Paterson loses to Albertus Magnus. | | | Albertus Magnus plays DeSales at WPU. |
Next opponent added. Only host Chapman won its first round game. Chapman goes to Whitworth.
I understand we're going to be able to get something from a floor camera, but it wasn't our shooter, so it might be a while before we get access to it.
Still in awe over how that ended. We had just done the CBS-style live look-in on that game from where I was at, broadcasting UW-Stevens Point. It was timed perfectly -- we jumped into that game in time to see Paterson's shot and ... well, what we could see of the answer.
While the HCAC couldn't quite pull off an undefeated evening, they deserve a shout-out. Anderson shocked #3 St. Thomas, while Defiance scared the crap out of #8 UWW (the Warhawks had to score the last 10 points to pull out a 4 point win).
http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/BasketballMen/Releases/09_10/Mar2.htm
Info on tonights matchup. Whitworth (25-2) is heading to its fourth straight tournament and fifth overall. The Pirates are riding a 24-game winning streak, the current longest in NCAA men's basketball at any level.
Listen, watch or live stats links:
http://www.whitworth.edu/Athletics/Teams/Basketball/livefeed.htm
It's the last game of the night, not a school night and how often do you get to see a team win 25 in a row? So no excuses to not tune in. ;D :D ;)
Thanks Pat, looking forward to seeing it.
So we're missing the games involving bye teams on the scoreboard - do we have links to live stats or video feeds?
Watching the VWC - St. Mary's game. We're going to see Camontae Griffin in Salem one way or the other. He is very good.
St. Mary's has some real team ball going on - lots of passes. VA Wes seems to have trouble down low with their lack of size. This one may come down to depth and bench play.
Just FYI, but is there a roster limit for the tournament? John Carroll's played thirteen guys already. I was just curious.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 07:27:20 PM
Just FYI, but is there a roster limit for the tournament? John Carroll's played thirteen guys already. I was just curious.
Not sure on the limit, but did you notice that JCU is labeled 'Eastern Mennonite' on livestats?! ;D That didn't work out so well for GC last game!
DeSales up 18 on Albertus Magnus at the half.
I tried to watch the Wooster video, but couldn't handle those announcers. Glad to see a good game going on there, though.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 08:08:15 PM
I tried to watch the Wooster video, but couldn't handle those announcers. Glad to see a good game going on there, though.
What's wrong with the announcers? For me the problem is the video feed.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2010, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 08:08:15 PM
I tried to watch the Wooster video, but couldn't handle those announcers. Glad to see a good game going on there, though.
What's wrong with the announcers? For me the problem is the video feed.
I'm sure they're wonderful for the normal COW audience, but a bit too hokey for me to hang in there.
Clark is tied with Randolph-Macon with 9 minutes to go.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 08:17:42 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2010, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 08:08:15 PM
I tried to watch the Wooster video, but couldn't handle those announcers. Glad to see a good game going on there, though.
What's wrong with the announcers? For me the problem is the video feed.
I'm sure they're wonderful for the normal COW audience, but a bit too hokey for me to hang in there.
:-*
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2010, 08:20:51 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 08:17:42 PM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2010, 08:16:58 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 08:08:15 PM
I tried to watch the Wooster video, but couldn't handle those announcers. Glad to see a good game going on there, though.
What's wrong with the announcers? For me the problem is the video feed.
I'm sure they're wonderful for the normal COW audience, but a bit too hokey for me to hang in there.
:-*
And, of course, Ohio hokey is not as great as the accented hokey of the Guilford guys. "He's dribblin' like a globetrotter!" I love it.
EMU seems to have their game in hand, but the other three ODAC teams are all down to the wire tonight.
SUNYIT gave up a huge lead, but pulled it out by one.
Guilford wins when Rudy Kirbus misses a long three to tie.
VA Wesleyan is out - St. Mary's wins by three.
Wooster's been up double digits most of the game, but is now leading by only four, WW has the ball a 40 seconds left.
Macon wins by ten but it was a very close game. Clark played very well!
Wooster ousts Whitewater 87-78; Wooster next will face Guilford.
Possible upset alert!
IWU leads WashU by 7 with 14 to go. WashU's ONLY lead of the game lasted about 20 seconds.
In the two completed brackets tonight only one host from each has made it through the weekend alive. Crazy times.
WashU goes down; IWU advances. Texas-Dallas beats Wheaton thanks to some extra fouls they had to give at the end of the game.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 08:42:23 PM
SUNYIT gave up a huge lead, but pulled it out by one.
SUNYIT puts the NEAC on the map in the East Region.
Williams and St. Mary's are shoe-ins to host, right? I assume Guilford and Point would be most likely for the other two.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 09:48:31 PM
WashU goes down
End of an era? We will have a new champ! 8-)
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 07:27:20 PM
Just FYI, but is there a roster limit for the tournament? John Carroll's played thirteen guys already. I was just curious.
[/quote
Roster limit of 15 for NCAA tournament.
Whatever the number, I'm taking the over in the EMU-Whitworth game.
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 06, 2010, 08:13:14 AM
Quote from: hugenerd on March 05, 2010, 11:02:44 PM
So there are a few matchups between undefeated conferences tomorrow: JCU @ Guilford, Wilmington @ EMU, and IWU @ WashU.
Whitewater @ Wooster is also a matchup between undefeated conferences. ;D
With Wooster's win over Whitewater, the North Coast (NCAC) is still an undefeated conference! ;) :D
Quote from: D3hoops.com on TwitterAnd the remainder are in: Williams, Guilford, UW-Stevens Point will be hosting men's sectionals along with St. Mary's.
Yay Twitter, getting the job done!
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 07:10:57 PM
St. Mary's has some real team ball going on - lots of passes. VA Wes seems to have trouble down low with their lack of size. This one may come down to depth and bench play.
Actually ... Va Wes was having success inside. They just struggled to block out because the guards let SMC's guard crash the boards rather easily. Rebounds was the only stat that wasn't completely even for both teams. SMC's depth at the guard position and a better swarming defense allowed them to win this one. Also, they weren't phased by VWC who kept making attempts to tie or take the lead and would have SMC immediatly respond. VWC is a young team that should be very good in the next few years. SMC is a confident team.
As for Griffin... he is good, but the reason for SMC's success this season and in the tournament isn't him... it's Alex Franz... had a number in every part of the stat line last night... and nearly had one in every category Friday night.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2010, 01:05:01 PM
Yay Twitter, getting the job done!
So who is the frontrunner now that Wash U is out?
16 different teams :)
Quote from: CCIWchamps on March 07, 2010, 06:03:03 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2010, 01:05:01 PM
Yay Twitter, getting the job done!
So who is the frontrunner now that Wash U is out?
For my money, Guilford's been the frontrunner all along. We do have a solid field and there are a lot of teams with a chance to win.
UWSP needs to step it up a notch. They are good, but they will see better competition in the coming rounds. They got away with one against Carleton and formality free throws at the end made the margin in the St. Norbert game a bit deceiving.
Aside from the two shocking upset wins over Beloit, there is nothing on St. Norberts schedule that suggests they should have been competitive with UWSP but they were. I've never been to a Final Four but I have seen Final Four teams. Presently I'm on the fence as to Points chances.
Don't know about that -- was St. Norbert really competitive with Stevens Point? I mean, there was just one possession in the final 13 minutes where it was even a two-possession game. The Green Knights were held at arm's length.
Shhhhh, could you let me promote Beloit just once ?? ;)
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2010, 07:27:20 PM
Just FYI, but is there a roster limit for the tournament? John Carroll's played thirteen guys already. I was just curious.
A team can have a maximum of fifteen players suit up for a D3 tournament game.
Thanks for posting the WPU / Albertus youtube, wow, incredible!!!! Amazing stuff.
No problem, although my role in it was the easiest. Dominick Chierico did the lucky stuff of being in the right place, the skilled stuff of following the ball, and the painstaking work of layering in our scoreboard shot and our audio.
On top of that, Frank Rossi did the coordination of the process.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 08, 2010, 07:22:46 PM
No problem, although my role in it was the easiest. Dominick Chierico did the lucky stuff of being in the right place, the skilled stuff of following the ball, and the painstaking work of layering in our scoreboard shot and our audio.
On top of that, Frank Rossi did the coordination of the process.
If he is poster on these boards, please give him 10 of my karma points!
He did an awesome job! :)
| CON | REC TEAMS |
| ODAC (4) | 7-1 RMC, Virginia Wes, E. Men., Guilford |
| CCIW (3) | 5-1 Carthage, Ill. Wes., Wheaton |
| UAA (2) | 3-1 Washington U, Brandeis |
| WIAC (2) | 3-1 Stevens Point, Whitewater |
| OAC (2) | 2-2 John Carroll, Wilmington |
| CAC (2) | 2-1 Wesley, St. Mary's |
| NESCAC (2) | 2-1 Williams, Middlebury |
| Centennial | 2-0 Franklin and Marshall |
| LEC | 2-0 Rhode Island College |
| MACF | 2-0 DeSales |
| NCAC | 2-0 Wooster |
| NEAC | 2-0 SUNYIT |
| Empire 8 (2) | 1-2 Nazareth, St. John Fisher |
| HCAC (2) | 1-2 Anderson, Defiance |
| NEWMAC (2) | 1-2 Clark, MIT |
| AMCC | 1-1 Medaille |
| ASC (2) | 1-1 Mary Hardin-Baylor, Texas-Dallas |
| GNAC | 1-1 Albertus Magnus |
| IND | 1-1 Chapman |
| LAND | 1-1 Merchant Marine |
| MWC | 1-1 St. Norbert |
| NAC | 1-1 Maine-Farmington |
| NWC | 1-0 Whitworth |
| NJAC (3) | 0-3 Rich Stock, Will Pat, Rutgers-Newark |
| MACC (2) | 0-2 Albright, Lycoming |
| MIAC (2) | 0-2 Carleton, St. Thomas |
| SUNYAC (2) | 0-2 Oneonta State, Plattsburgh State |
| CCC | 0-1 Gordon |
| CSAC | 0-1 Cabrini |
| CUNYAC | 0-1 Brooklyn |
| GSAC | 0-1 Maryville |
| IIAC | 0-1 Central |
| Liberty | 0-1 St. Lawrence |
| MASCAC | 0-1 Bridgewater State |
| MIAA | 0-1 Hope |
| NathCon | 0-1 Aurora |
| PrAC | 0-1 Grove City |
| SCAC | 0-1 Centre |
| SCIAC | 0-1 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps |
| SKY | 0-1 SUNY-Purchase |
| SLIAC | 0-1 Westminster |
| USAC | 0-1 Christopher Newport |
Despite St. Norb's only being at arm's length against the Pointers in the 2nd half, I felt they were a very good team and could compete with the Pointers. I think they did just that. Sure, they didn't have any games on their schedule that stood out much, but they are a very well coached team that plays solid defense. Their coach, Gary Grzesk, played under Dick Bennett at UWGB and made Lakeland a solid basketball team prior to heading to DePere. He comes from the Bennett tree and I expected a hardfought game...though others would call it "ugly" ??? ;D :D ;) With that rationale, Pat and Roop, are you saying that Hope, too, wouldn't have been competive against Stevens Point?
I never said they weren't competitive, it just sounds like Pat and I define it differently. I was fearing a blow out before the game, and at times it appeared to be headed that way, but SNC held it together and stayed within striking distance until late. Unfortunately they never got over the top and grabbed the lead. Hope is a younger team and may or may not have been able to do the same. We won't know however as they didn't play Point.
With the 3 point shot I consider striking distance to be 12 points or less. Get a couple stops, hit a couple 3s and it's a game again.
The following men's sectionals were picked by the NCAA as the games that the NCAA will carry on NCAA TV this weekend. NCAA TV is the NCAA's official on-line streaming player-- the player that we used to get the selection announcements last week. Videocasts coming from these sectionals will be directly produced by the NCAA and will most likely be covered by D3Hoops.com personnel for play-by-play and commentary:
(1) The sectional at Williams-- Friday's games in that sectional are Brandeis v RI College and Williams v SUNYIT with the winners meeting on Saturday.
(2) The sectional at UW-Stevens Point-- Friday's games in that sectional are Illinois Wesleyan v Carthage and Texas-Dallas v UW-Stevens Point with the winners meeting on Saturday.
The NCAA player can be found at http://all-access.cbssports.com/player.html?code=ncaa
The other two sectionals will most likely be videocasted as well, but these will be on other streaming sites.
Note: Post modified to provide a direct link to the NCAA streaming player.
I think those NE region games will be pretty good and I'm excited to see them, but if they're only choosing two sectionals, shouldn't one of them have been Guilford? That seems like a no-brainer.
On the other hand, this probably means I'll get to listen to those Guilford announcers again. I would listen to those guys do play by play on drying paint.
Like with our broadcast crews, the NCAA is somewhat hamstrung by where they have people in place.
Our people are centered around Minneapolis, Chicago, Baltimore/Philly and New England. The NCAA has a similarly small number of people available -- we're all using contractors seasonally because nobody can afford to hire full-timers to do this sort of thing.
So since Guilford has its own video, there's not a need there. I was hoping they would take the video production burden off our hands at St. Mary's, but it wasn't to be. So Dave McHugh will produce video for them again this week.
34-27 Whitworth, late first half 3:35 to go. Live stats not working well. ugg!
39-37 Whitworth at half. Did I mention the lives stats are nearly worthless... :( :P
EMU wins.
IWU wins.
Williams wins 104-70.
TX-Dallas made a good run to get it close near the end, but Point just kept it out of reach.
Quote from: magicman on March 12, 2010, 10:02:08 PM
Williams wins 104-70.
Williams made 17 3s, shooting 63% from behind the arc. Any team would have had trouble beating them with that type of shooting performance. Troy Whittington is also a beast inside, he had at least 4 dunks and on two of those he went up flat-footed with a a guy draped all over him.
If the Williams v SUNYIT game was a UAA conference game instead of an NCAA tournament game, Williams would have tied Chicago's record for most 3's made by a team in a game, and the two teams combined would have broken the combined teams record for most 3's made in a game by 1 3 pointer.
The NESCAC does not have a performance record book on their conference website, but it wouldn't surprise me if Williams set some NESCAC single game records on the 3 pt shooting side this season.
I'll have to see if Brandeis can bring Williams down to a pace of game that the Judges can hope to win tonight. If Williams makes 11 or more 3's tonight, Brandeis is in trouble....
(Just trying to analyze the situation, but speaking as a Brandeis fan, 'Deis should be up to the challenge....)
Williams leads Brandeis 35-32 at the half. Schultz with 12 and Wang with 10 for Williams. Hughes with 8 leads Brandeis.
Does anyone have a general idea what time the Friday games usually are in Salem? And what time, generally, the Saturday game is? Also if folks have recommendations for a cheap hotel near the arena ... and good places to eat in the area, it would be much appreciated!
Brandeis and SUNYIT were night and day in terms of defense. Williams had wide open looks all day vs. SUNYIT. Brandeis gave the Ephs basically NO easy three's, Brandeis barely crashed the offensive boards outside of Hollins, so there were no fast break 3's, and they extended their defense WAY out on the perimeter, relying on their quickness. It took the Ephs awhile to figure it out, but once they started driving and getting the ball inside, they finally started to get (and knock down) easier looks. They ATTEMPTED four less three's than they made vs. SUNYIT. Whittington was a key guy as Brandeis could not guard him one-on-one (few can) and they didn't seem willing to double and risk the long ball. Kudos to Brandeis for a gritty, gutty performance, they really made the Ephs work.
Hope to meet some of the regular posters here in my first trip to Salem! Go Ephs! Guilford vs. Williams looks like a great, very even match-up on paper, considering each have stars at the 1, 3, and 5 (Williams has a two-headed monster at the five, but they combine for production just a tad less than Sanborn's) ... the role players may end up deciding it.
Wow! I make some observations of the UTD UWSP game about
-- how tight it was,
-- how #5 UWSP before 2375 fans (2300 for UWSP and 75 for UT-Dallas?) could not put away #19 UTD,
-- that UTD's 1-3-1 zone gave UWSP problems
-- that UTD was playing without its best player (IMHO) Brandon Green and another solid senior staring forward Jimmy Witten
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP. UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)
I commented that 6 points makes that a different game if a team is holding off a team versus the lead changing hands. UWSP hit their 7-8 FT's down the stretch. The "foul-fest" may not occur if the lead is changing hands.
The UWSP game write-up highlighted the tightness of the game and the challenges that the Pointers faced and met against the Comets. From 13:13 to the end of the game, the UWSP margin was 5-4-7-6-4-6-5-3-5 until the "foul-fest" that the article mentions in the last 1:43.
I got an opinion by Titan Q and then got 7 smites over the day from fans who did not like what I said, but did not have the vocabulary or the analytical skills to discuss the points that I made.
UWSP web page on the Pointer-Comet game (http://athletics.uwsp.edu/news/2010/3/12/MBB_0312102425.aspx?path=mbball)
The fans in the midwest may give lip-service to the travel disparities that plague the teams outside the Illinois-Wisconsin cocoon at tournament time, but travel is huge. (I hope that Whitworth had a chance to adjust to its 3PM PST game with EMU. The Pirates had not had a 3pm PST tip-off since January 3rd.)
I never expected that response (the smiting and absence of a cogent response) that I received on the WIAC boards.
If a team has the athletes that UTD has and more depth than that "beat-up" Comet team did last night, then that game video may be quite instructive. :)
Friday's games are 5 and 7 p.m., while the title game is at 1 on Saturday. (Women have the second game this year, for TV purposes.)
Ralph,
Don't lose sleep over being smited. :'( :o ;D :D ;) :)
I don't do Karma, so it wasn't me! :P
I think it just came out wrong or the timing was wrong. UT-Dallas loses and then you bring up flights and crowds. What did you expect?! ??? ::)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2010, 11:03:28 PM
Wow! I make some observations of the UTD UWSP game about
-- how tight it was,
-- how #5 UWSP before 2375 fans (2300 for UWSP and 75 for UT-Dallas?) could not put away #19 UTD,
-- that UTD's 1-3-1 zone gave UWSP problems
-- that UTD was playing without its best player (IMHO) Brandon Green and another solid senior staring forward Jimmy Witten
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP. UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)
I commented that 6 points makes that a different game if a team is holding off a team versus the lead changing hands. UWSP hit their 7-8 FT's down the stretch. The "foul-fest" may not occur if the lead is changing hands.
The UWSP game write-up highlighted the tightness of the game and the challenges that the Pointers faced and met against the Comets. From 13:13 to the end of the game, the UWSP margin was 5-4-7-6-4-6-5-3-5 until the "foul-fest" that the article mentions in the last 1:43.
I got an opinion by Titan Q and then got 7 smites over the day from fans who did not like what I said, but did not have the vocabulary or the analytical skills to discuss the points that I made.
UWSP web page on the Pointer-Comet game (http://athletics.uwsp.edu/news/2010/3/12/MBB_0312102425.aspx?path=mbball)
The fans in the midwest may give lip-service to the travel disparities that plague the teams outside the Illinois-Wisconsin cocoon at tournament time, but travel is huge. (I hope that Whitworth had a chance to adjust to its 3PM PST game with EMU. The Pirates had not had a 3pm PST tip-off since January 3rd.)
I never expected that response (the smiting and absence of a cogent response) that I received on the WIAC boards.
If a team has the athletes that UTD has and more depth than that "beat-up" Comet team did last night, then that game video may be quite instructive. :)
UTD played a great game and Davis had a career game to make it so. If Wash U had won, it would have been a shorter trip for the Comets and longer for the Pointers. It would have only been about 500 fans to 30 there. Blame the NCAA politics, but not the 2300 Point fans for trying to exhort their team to a win. UTD had less than 350 fans a game see them play at home during this year on average, they would have been out numbered no matter where they played. Injuries are also part of the game. UWSP's Pete Rortvedt was not nearly the player he was early in his career after an injury filled junior season that carried over into his senior season as well. UTD had no depth all season long and Witten's loss definitely hurt, but they had no one to replace him because they only played 6 players basically after Greene went down. Superb athletes, yes, team, nope
QuoteQuote from: Ralph Turner on Yesterday at 11:03:28 pm
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP. UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)
Ralph, in fairness, whether UTD played at UWSP, IWU, or Carthage (had the Redmen or Titans hosted) the fan disparity would have been about the same. All four institutions have a large home fan base, a crowd of 2300+ not unusual for big games (conference; non-conference or NCAA tournament) and each has the facilities to accomodate same. And, all of the three would have likely sold all their allocated visitors tickets and been looking for more.
Thanks for the discussion of this year's tourney to this point.
I wish to focus the discussion towards the consideration of how good teams are when we consider the limitations and the definition of D-III, the emphasis of regional competition.
I asked for a quantification of the advantage or disadvantage due to travel in D-III, where D1-style travel is unusual. I posited that the Home Court Advantage for UWSP might have been 6 points, Massey's standard 3.14 plus another "2.86" for the airflight. (I surmise that that was the offending concept,as opposed to style of play or the fact that UWSP could not put them away after pulling to a 13 point lead. I also wish that Massey could run numbers on the effect of "plane flights" or any game over 500 miles might yield at the Division III level.)
This also raises the questions of styles of play. With the chance to watch videostreams from other parts of the country, we see what works in those parts of the country. Another style may not be to our respective tastes, but it does reflect the talent that is available to our coaches and teams locally. We have very few 6'7" posts in the South, but we have plenty of 6'3" athletes. We saw this in 2008-09 when the University of New England burst onto the regional scene with short quick athletic guards from Texas.
From our perspective in the ASC, UMHB is going to Beloit in the 2010-11. That should be a good chance for Wisconsin fans to see a good program and to contrast the style of play.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 14, 2010, 12:20:41 AM
Friday's games are 5 and 7 p.m., while the title game is at 1 on Saturday. (Women have the second game this year, for TV purposes.)
Pat,
Who is televising the men's games and is it just the Final or are the semifinals also on TV.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2010, 03:14:25 PM
Thanks for the discussion of this year's tourney to this point.
I wish to focus the discussion towards the consideration of how good teams are when we consider the limitations and the definition of D-III, the emphasis of regional competition.
I asked for a quantification of the advantage or disadvantage due to travel in D-III, where D1-style travel is unusual. I posited that the Home Court Advantage for UWSP might have been 6 points, Massey's standard 3.14 plus another "2.86" for the airflight. (I surmise that that was the offending concept,as opposed to style of play or the fact that UWSP could not put them away after pulling to a 13 point lead. I also wish that Massey could run numbers on the effect of "plane flights" or any game over 500 miles might yield at the Division III level.)
This also raises the questions of styles of play. With the chance to watch videostreams from other parts of the country, we see what works in those parts of the country. Another style may not be to our respective tastes, but it does reflect the talent that is available to our coaches and teams locally. We have very few 6'7" posts in the South, but we have plenty of 6'3" athletes. We saw this in 2008-09 when the University of New England burst onto the regional scene with short quick athletic guards from Texas.
From our perspective in the ASC, UMHB is going to Beloit in the 2010-11. That should be a good chance for Wisconsin fans to see a good program and to contrast the style of play.
Looking back at a few games in the D3 tourneys over the past few years show many cases where teams traveled a "far piece" into the opposing teams' home courts and won or played very well. In 2003 UW Oshkosh traveled to RMC (962 mi) and won in front of 1600. That same year Occidental traveled 1671 mi to beat Buena Vista on their court (no attendance listed). In '04 UWSP logged an 1844 mile trip to beat Puget Sound in front of 1809 home fans. The following year Trinity U came up from Texas to UWSP and lost what was probably the best game in that year's tournament in front of over 2700 fans. In '06 Puget Sound flew 1914 miles and beat Augustana in Appleton before losing to IWU the next night. And of course UTD last year put on 1190 mi to beat Capital in front of 1134 fans before losing in OT the next night to Guilford. While not a home game specifically, Va. Wesleyan beat Wittenberg by 3 for the '06 title in front of 3450 fans a night after beating IWU by 2 in front of 2665. Good teams will win where ever they play if they play better than the other team travel notwithstanding.
Good post, frodo.
I agree that the best teams make it to Salem. The team that makes its out of the Midwest and the teams that have historically made it out of the Great Lakes/ODAC region have been the strongest. Recently, the NESCAC has locked in a third part of the bracket. The weak link in this seems to be the Mid-Atlantic/Atlantic since the Catholic championship over WPU in 2001.
I think that Massey's analysis would work best at the Regionals and Sectionals where the number of games may approach a representative sample to show some greater impact due to long travel (i.e., air travel.)
QuoteWho is televising the men's games and is it just the Final or are the semifinals also on TV.
Usually it's just the final that is televised on cable. I think it'll be on CSTV since CBS has the broadcast rights. We will work with the NCAA to provide live online video of the semifinals.
CBS College Sports is the name of the network, and yes, they are doing the final. The semifinals are on NCAA.com, with our broadcasters.
Is there an announcement of the rosters for the All-Star Game somewhere that I have missed? Who is making the selections for this game, and who is footing the bill for the travel for the players? In fact, as I type this, I can think of another dozen questions about this game. Where, or perhaps when, can I look for answers?
David - that announcement won't come until at least Monday. They are taking a look at who the teams are in the Final Four and then going from there with their selections. They also have to look at who might or might not be able to make it to Salem.
The NABC has a committee set-up to select these players and the NABC is paying for all of it. We chatted with Coach Mike McGrath a few weeks back on Hoopsville. You can find that show here: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5097717 or http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/5102088
D3 tourney history of the 2010 Final Four participants| team | apps | first app | E8s | F4s | titles | W-L (.pct) |
| Williams | 11 | 1994 | 5 | 5 | 1 | 29-9 (.763) |
| Guilford | 4 | 2007 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 11-3 (.786) |
| UW-Stevens Point | 9 | 1997 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 23-6 (.793) |
| Randolph-Macon | 10 | 1990 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 9-9 (.500) |
Quote from: frodotwo on March 14, 2010, 03:20:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2010, 11:03:28 PM
Wow! I make some observations of the UTD UWSP game about
-- how tight it was,
-- how #5 UWSP before 2375 fans (2300 for UWSP and 75 for UT-Dallas?) could not put away #19 UTD,
-- that UTD's 1-3-1 zone gave UWSP problems
-- that UTD was playing without its best player (IMHO) Brandon Green and another solid senior staring forward Jimmy Witten
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP. UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)
I commented that 6 points makes that a different game if a team is holding off a team versus the lead changing hands. UWSP hit their 7-8 FT's down the stretch. The "foul-fest" may not occur if the lead is changing hands.
The UWSP game write-up highlighted the tightness of the game and the challenges that the Pointers faced and met against the Comets. From 13:13 to the end of the game, the UWSP margin was 5-4-7-6-4-6-5-3-5 until the "foul-fest" that the article mentions in the last 1:43.
I got an opinion by Titan Q and then got 7 smites over the day from fans who did not like what I said, but did not have the vocabulary or the analytical skills to discuss the points that I made.
UWSP web page on the Pointer-Comet game (http://athletics.uwsp.edu/news/2010/3/12/MBB_0312102425.aspx?path=mbball)
The fans in the midwest may give lip-service to the travel disparities that plague the teams outside the Illinois-Wisconsin cocoon at tournament time, but travel is huge. (I hope that Whitworth had a chance to adjust to its 3PM PST game with EMU. The Pirates had not had a 3pm PST tip-off since January 3rd.)
I never expected that response (the smiting and absence of a cogent response) that I received on the WIAC boards.
If a team has the athletes that UTD has and more depth than that "beat-up" Comet team did last night, then that game video may be quite instructive. :)
UTD played a great game and Davis had a career game to make it so. If Wash U had won, it would have been a shorter trip for the Comets and longer for the Pointers. It would have only been about 500 fans to 30 there. Blame the NCAA politics, but not the 2300 Point fans for trying to exhort their team to a win. UTD had less than 350 fans a game see them play at home during this year on average, they would have been out numbered no matter where they played. Injuries are also part of the game. UWSP's Pete Rortvedt was not nearly the player he was early in his career after an injury filled junior season that carried over into his senior season as well. UTD had no depth all season long and Witten's loss definitely hurt, but they had no one to replace him because they only played 6 players basically after Greene went down. Superb athletes, yes, team, nope
I would say UTD had one superb athlete this season. Curtis Davis. UTD is easily one of the least athletic teams in the ASC.
Last season UTD went to the Elite 8... where they were 3 seconds and an incredible shot by Clay Henson away from the Final Four. They lost 2 huge starters in PG Temaine Wright and G Ernie Lowery. This season the Comets lost Brandon Greene, a senior starting in his 3rd straight season, in December. Brandon is a great scorer and defensive lockdown. After Losing to Division I UT Arlington by 8 in a very close game, they won 17 of their next 18. They were down big against Mary Hardin Baylor in their Home Gym in the conference championship game and managed to get it down to 2 and had several chances to take the lead but couldn't get over the hump. With about 2 minutes to go, down 4, Jimmy Witten drove and was about to score but went down in pain with a Torn ACL. UMHB went and converted it into a six point lead as UTD stopped for half a second watching their teammate go down. Jimmy Witten was also in his 3rd consecutive year of starting and was a huge inside presence for the Comets as well as emotional leader. That leaves ONE starter from the 2009 Elite 8 team. UTD managed to rebound and win at home against a very good Wheaton team to return to the Sweet 16 for the 2nd straight season! In the Wheaton game, the last remaining starter from the 2009 team, Jordan Eppink, got in foul trouble and was only able to play 23 minutes. I believe the reason UTD won the game is because post Garrett Hillen came off the bench and played great in a HUGE 17 minutes. The Comets traveled to Stevens Point to a very partisan crowd and got behind early but managed to stay in the game and had chances in the second half to tie the game up. I must give credit to Stevens Point for having GREAT fans that aren't seen at the Division III level down south.
I guess I just don't understand how you don't think this was a good team. How many teams do you know that would have depth after losing 2 3rd year starters in one season... and still manage to band together and have the success that UTD had this season. I'm not taking credit away from Stevens Point as they are a great team and the best team UTD played all season bar none, but UTD hung with them on their home court 600 miles from Texas, after losing 2 huge starters down the stretch, plus the 2 graduates from 2009 elite 8 team.
Nobody thinks this isn't a good team.
Quote from: THE U - TD on March 16, 2010, 02:49:06 AM
Quote from: frodotwo on March 14, 2010, 03:20:29 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 13, 2010, 11:03:28 PM
Wow! I make some observations of the UTD UWSP game about
-- how tight it was,
-- how #5 UWSP before 2375 fans (2300 for UWSP and 75 for UT-Dallas?) could not put away #19 UTD,
-- that UTD's 1-3-1 zone gave UWSP problems
-- that UTD was playing without its best player (IMHO) Brandon Green and another solid senior staring forward Jimmy Witten
-- and that I asked for quantification of home court advantage and that one should probably consider that home court advantage may for UWSP may have been 6 points when one considers the plane flight and travel for UTD and the overwhelming crowd disparity in favor of UWSP. UTD had not played before 2300 fans this season. (UTDallas' 64-72 loss at D1 UT-Arlington was only played before 632 fans on Jan 3rd.)
I commented that 6 points makes that a different game if a team is holding off a team versus the lead changing hands. UWSP hit their 7-8 FT's down the stretch. The "foul-fest" may not occur if the lead is changing hands.
The UWSP game write-up highlighted the tightness of the game and the challenges that the Pointers faced and met against the Comets. From 13:13 to the end of the game, the UWSP margin was 5-4-7-6-4-6-5-3-5 until the "foul-fest" that the article mentions in the last 1:43.
I got an opinion by Titan Q and then got 7 smites over the day from fans who did not like what I said, but did not have the vocabulary or the analytical skills to discuss the points that I made.
UWSP web page on the Pointer-Comet game (http://athletics.uwsp.edu/news/2010/3/12/MBB_0312102425.aspx?path=mbball)
The fans in the midwest may give lip-service to the travel disparities that plague the teams outside the Illinois-Wisconsin cocoon at tournament time, but travel is huge. (I hope that Whitworth had a chance to adjust to its 3PM PST game with EMU. The Pirates had not had a 3pm PST tip-off since January 3rd.)
I never expected that response (the smiting and absence of a cogent response) that I received on the WIAC boards.
If a team has the athletes that UTD has and more depth than that "beat-up" Comet team did last night, then that game video may be quite instructive. :)
UTD played a great game and Davis had a career game to make it so. If Wash U had won, it would have been a shorter trip for the Comets and longer for the Pointers. It would have only been about 500 fans to 30 there. Blame the NCAA politics, but not the 2300 Point fans for trying to exhort their team to a win. UTD had less than 350 fans a game see them play at home during this year on average, they would have been out numbered no matter where they played. Injuries are also part of the game. UWSP's Pete Rortvedt was not nearly the player he was early in his career after an injury filled junior season that carried over into his senior season as well. UTD had no depth all season long and Witten's loss definitely hurt, but they had no one to replace him because they only played 6 players basically after Greene went down. Superb athletes, yes, team, nope
I would say UTD had one superb athlete this season. Curtis Davis. UTD is easily one of the least athletic teams in the ASC.
Last season UTD went to the Elite 8... where they were 3 seconds and an incredible shot by Clay Henson away from the Final Four. They lost 2 huge starters in PG Temaine Wright and G Ernie Lowery. This season the Comets lost Brandon Greene, a senior starting in his 3rd straight season, in December. Brandon is a great scorer and defensive lockdown. After Losing to Division I UT Arlington by 8 in a very close game, they won 17 of their next 18. They were down big against Mary Hardin Baylor in their Home Gym in the conference championship game and managed to get it down to 2 and had several chances to take the lead but couldn't get over the hump. With about 2 minutes to go, down 4, Jimmy Witten drove and was about to score but went down in pain with a Torn ACL. UMHB went and converted it into a six point lead as UTD stopped for half a second watching their teammate go down. Jimmy Witten was also in his 3rd consecutive year of starting and was a huge inside presence for the Comets as well as emotional leader. That leaves ONE starter from the 2009 Elite 8 team. UTD managed to rebound and win at home against a very good Wheaton team to return to the Sweet 16 for the 2nd straight season! In the Wheaton game, the last remaining starter from the 2009 team, Jordan Eppink, got in foul trouble and was only able to play 23 minutes. I believe the reason UTD won the game is because post Garrett Hillen came off the bench and played great in a HUGE 17 minutes. The Comets traveled to Stevens Point to a very partisan crowd and got behind early but managed to stay in the game and had chances in the second half to tie the game up. I must give credit to Stevens Point for having GREAT fans that aren't seen at the Division III level down south.
I guess I just don't understand how you don't think this was a good team. How many teams do you know that would have depth after losing 2 3rd year starters in one season... and still manage to band together and have the success that UTD had this season. I'm not taking credit away from Stevens Point as they are a great team and the best team UTD played all season bar none, but UTD hung with them on their home court 600 miles from Texas, after losing 2 huge starters down the stretch, plus the 2 graduates from 2009 elite 8 team.
UTD is an excellent team, but I believe their weakness was their lack of depth. In order to go deep in the tourney you have to have capable backups and go more than 6 or 7 deep. The injury to Greene made UTD a six man rotation and Witten going down made them a 5 man team. Not enough IMO to make them a final 4 team. UWSP is my"homer" team, but they do go at least 8 deep. 3pt shooting is the biggest wart this team has. UTD was fully capable of winning vs the Pointers, but usually one man can't do it alone and that's what happened in this case
Anyone know where the NABC all-star squads are listed?
We just got the full list this afternoon:
http://bit.ly/alPHYc
Thanks
Interesting that they are going to have the two players from a losing team play on opposing All-Star squads.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 16, 2010, 04:47:39 PM
Interesting that they are going to have the two players from a losing team play on opposing All-Star squads.
That has its pluses and minuses. First, a big plus is the fact that you won't have to arrange to bring four extra players to Salem, since they're already there. A second plus is there are clearly deserving seniors who ought to play in the All-Star game who are in the Final Four. Either Guilford's Tyler Sanborn or Williams's Blake Schultz will see his team's season come to an end on Friday night -- and it's hard to imagine holding a senior All-Star game without one or the other.
The minus is that you will end up with freshly-eliminated players suiting up for the senior All-Star game who don't really deserve to be there. For example, the two Randy Mac seniors, Lawrence and Strickland, got DNPs in half of RMC's games this season -- and in the games in which they
did see the floor, they averaged about two minutes apiece. And the Sweeney kid from UWSP averaged ten minutes per game and scored 1.7 ppg for the year. Not exactly All-Star numbers.
What confuses me is the way that the people who are putting together the game have split up the potential additions to the rosters. Two seniors from each of the four teams have been slated to join the All-Star rosters should their teams lose on Friday night, and the two seniors per team will be split between the two squads. That runs counter to the structural rationale for the game. The game is set up to be East versus West (East meaning the Northeast, East, Middle Atlantic, and Atlantic regions, and West meaning Great Lakes, South, Midwest, and West regions). That has great potential for being conversational fodder, since the discussion of which regions have better teams and better players is a perennial topic on d3boards.com. An East vs. West senior All-Star game won't necessarily settle those debates, but at the very least it'll certainly fuel them. But with this setup, we're looking at the possiblity of a UWSP player joining the East team, and a Williams player joining the West team. And that just doesn't make sense.
I can see that, this year at least, the setup has to be tweaked somewhat, since the West constituency has three teams in the Final Four (Guilford and Randy Mac from the South Region, UWSP from the West Region), while the East constituency has only one (Williams from the Northeast Region). One of the ODAC teams should be switched over to the East prior to Friday, just to balance it out this year. But I'd rather see that -- even if it meant that Guilford's vastly superior seniors get moved to the East rather than RMC's inferior senior duo -- than see the setup that they have at the moment. It would at least come closer to preserving the true East vs. West nature of the All-Star game.
Gregory - from what I have learned... while the breakdown of players may be titled East vs. West... but the work to fill the rosters wasn't going to be strickly East vs. West or North vs. South. You can see there is a member from Virginia Wesleyan on the West team... and a possible player from UWSP on the East. While the breakdown certainly took on a strong East v West... my conversations make it sound like they are going to mix things around each year.
As for players that don't see much time getting on the roster from losing semi-final teams... I would look at it this way. They were part of a team that got to Salem but maybe they didn't get a chance to really play. This is their reward even if they aren't a star... for being a four-year player at the school that nearly accomplished the ultimate goal of a championship. They would have played in a consolation game and now they are rewarded for their efforts in this game. I know that the committee has also considered Senior-less squads... and that is why the decision of who is playing in the game comes down this week and not weeks prior.
It is also the first year for this... and I am sure things will continue to be tweeked in the future.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2010, 05:44:45 PMYou can see there is a member from Virginia Wesleyan on the West team
... which is as it should be, since the South Region is considered part of the West (along with the Great Lakes, Midwest, and West regions). The West team also has a player from Austin College (South Region).
The South Region -- or much of it, at least -- is traditionally paired with the Great Lakes Region in the tourney for the sectional rounds. It's thus a natural fit as 25% of the West quartet of regions.
Counterintuitive though it may seem, the ODAC is part of the western half of D3 ... in spite of the fact that one of its campuses is so close to the Atlantic Ocean that you can smell the salt air!
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2010, 05:44:45 PMWhile the breakdown certainly took on a strong East v West... my conversations make it sound like they are going to mix things around each year.
That's a shame, since regionality adds some spice to what might otherwise be a game played by two random and meaningless aggregations of players (i.e., a glorified pick-up game).
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2010, 05:44:45 PM
As for players that don't see much time getting on the roster from losing semi-final teams... I would look at it this way. They were part of a team that got to Salem but maybe they didn't get a chance to really play. This is their reward even if they aren't a star... for being a four-year player at the school that nearly accomplished the ultimate goal of a championship.
Is participation restricted to four-year players, then? Do we know for sure that seniors who transferred in at some point during their careers will not be allowed to participate?
The "reward" concept seems pretty feeble to me, inasmuch as their "reward" is to look and feel thoroughly outclassed by their teammates and opponents in the senior All-Star game. Nevertheless, I accept the true rationale that I suspect is behind this, which is to cut down on costs by using four players who are already on the premises as of Friday night.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2010, 05:44:45 PM
It is also the first year for this... and I am sure things will continue to be tweeked in the future.
I suspect that as well.
My point was that I found it odd that, say if UW-Stevens Point loses, one UWSP player will be on the East squad and one will be on the West squad. Seems like they should be on the same All-Star team.
How were players selected to play in the all-star game?
In this scenario, yes, the team may end up with token seniors from a Final Four team that is junior-led, true. It wouldn't be possible to just have a couple players on standby, though, in case there was a spot needed. Indeed, it's a cost consideration. Many years this will work out for them -- in this case, not so much.
Similarly with how they are splitting up the players, one from each team slated toward each roster. Because of the geography, it's impossible to guarantee one East school and one West school will be eliminated on Friday night -- not just this year, but any year that the committee puts together the bracket intelligently, as it did this season.
Players had to be nominated by their NABC member head coach. From that group, their selection committee whittled the list down to four or five in each region, ultimately selecting two -- in part based on positionality, since unlike an NABC All-American team, this team must actually be capable of taking the floor, and in part based on who is available.
It's possible one or more players may have turned down the invitation. However, the NABC is paying for their flights and accommodations, so cost should not have been an issue.
Like with any process, someone must be nominated. There's always a chance that a player you think should be in the game was not nominated. In addition, a coach must be a member of the NABC in order to nominate, and there's at least one relatively prominent Division III basketball program where this is not the case.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2010, 06:19:59 PM
Is participation restricted to four-year players, then? Do we know for sure that seniors who transferred in at some point during their careers will not be allowed to participate?
No such restriction. Kevin Misevicius was a junior college transfer to Cabrini last season.
In the case of Randolph-Macon, those were the only two seniors on the roster. I would rather see them honor someone like Trey Drake of North Carolina Wesleyan, the USA South player of the year, or Greg Hernandez of Maryville, each of whom are relatively near Salem and wouldn't require an advance plane ticket. But so be it. It's the first time, too -- if they see this become a regular occurrence, perhaps things will change for future years.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2010, 05:15:28 PM
The minus is that you will end up with freshly-eliminated players suiting up for the senior All-Star game who don't really deserve to be there. For example, the two Randy Mac seniors, Lawrence and Strickland, got DNPs in half of RMC's games this season -- and in the games in which they did see the floor, they averaged about two minutes apiece. And the Sweeney kid from UWSP averaged ten minutes per game and scored 1.7 ppg for the year. Not exactly All-Star numbers.
This SP team, much like the 2004 Final Four team, is made up predominately of juniors. Matt Moses is more of a presence in terms of the senior than Neal Krajnik was (while Neal was important to our success, he wasn't our go-to guy like Moses is for this year's Point team, though he did start for the first half of the year until replaced by Jon Krull), and this Point team has 3 seniors instead of just one... but both rosters were dominated by juniors.
As an aside, Point does have 3 seniors... Moses, Sweeney, and Ross Forman, though one could say they have 2.5 seniors... Forman didn't join the team until the new year while Sweeney has put in his 4 years at SP. If the All-Star game is going to include two players from potentially eliminated teams, then they've gotta take who is available.
Interestingly, I wonder what they would do if there WAS only one senior on a Final Four team, like we had in '04... As it so happened, we didn't lose, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway, and I suspect that, though the game will likely be in the 60's and pretty close, SP will pull out the victory on Friday and not need to worry about which of their seniors will be suiting up on Saturday morning... 'cause they all will!
In all honesty, I don't care if an "East" player plays for the West or vice versa. It's basically a scrimmage to let some seniors play in front of a nice crowd and get some exposure. In fact, I think it would be kind of fun to see two players from the same team play each other...just so long as it's not Point players!
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 16, 2010, 06:19:59 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 16, 2010, 05:44:45 PM
As for players that don't see much time getting on the roster from losing semi-final teams... I would look at it this way. They were part of a team that got to Salem but maybe they didn't get a chance to really play. This is their reward even if they aren't a star... for being a four-year player at the school that nearly accomplished the ultimate goal of a championship.
Is participation restricted to four-year players, then? Do we know for sure that seniors who transferred in at some point during their careers will not be allowed to participate?
Sorry for the mis-quote. I meant to indicate seniors and in my efforts to keep from writing "seniors" every single-time... I wrote four-year players. Seniors is the key... those who have used up all of their eligibility would be key. For example, Sean Wallis would not have probably played last year because he still had one year of eligibility available. This game would hurt his chances in the eyes of the NCAA from returning for another year at Wash U.
Quote from: UWBadgers on March 16, 2010, 08:19:56 PM
How were players selected to play in the all-star game?
I was wondering the same thing.... Did they have to be nominated, or earn All Region or something like that? I was surprised that DJ Marsh, a 1st Team All West Region selection, wasn't chosen. I'm sure there is a good reason, but I guess I'm just curious more than anything.
UWSP has sold out their allotment of tickets according to the local newspaper. No idea how many that is ...250?...500? I got mine about 45 min after the ticket office opened and was 6 rows up already if that's the order they went in ???
Cubs: My earlier response.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2010, 08:35:13 PM
Players had to be nominated by their NABC member head coach. From that group, their selection committee whittled the list down to four or five in each region, ultimately selecting two -- in part based on positionality, since unlike an NABC All-American team, this team must actually be capable of taking the floor, and in part based on who is available.
It's possible one or more players may have turned down the invitation. However, the NABC is paying for their flights and accommodations, so cost should not have been an issue.
Like with any process, someone must be nominated. There's always a chance that a player you think should be in the game was not nominated. In addition, a coach must be a member of the NABC in order to nominate, and there's at least one relatively prominent Division III basketball program where this is not the case.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 17, 2010, 10:19:04 AM
Cubs: My earlier response.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2010, 08:35:13 PM
Players had to be nominated by their NABC member head coach. From that group, their selection committee whittled the list down to four or five in each region, ultimately selecting two -- in part based on positionality, since unlike an NABC All-American team, this team must actually be capable of taking the floor, and in part based on who is available.
It's possible one or more players may have turned down the invitation. However, the NABC is paying for their flights and accommodations, so cost should not have been an issue.
Like with any process, someone must be nominated. There's always a chance that a player you think should be in the game was not nominated. In addition, a coach must be a member of the NABC in order to nominate, and there's at least one relatively prominent Division III basketball program where this is not the case.
Sorry Pat!!!! I must have been reading too fast this morning..... My apologies.. :-[
Williams open up a 9 point lead over Guilford at 30-21 with 5:55 to play in the 1st half. The Quakers come roaring back outscoring the Ephs 22-5 to take the lead 43-35 at the break.
Williams up 65-61 with 7:07 left to play.
This will be the second time in D3 tourney history that there has been a rematch in the national championship game. Tomorrow Williams will seek to avenge an 84-82 defeat at the hands of UW-Stevens Point in the 2004 title contest, as the Ephs and Pointers will square off for the 2010 national title.
In 1979 North Park defeated Potsdam State, 66-62, to win the second of an eventual three straight national championships for the Vikings, and in 1985 North Park also took the rematch against Potsdam State in that season's title game, 72-71.
East squad wins the All-Star game 109-107 in overtime. Clay Henson of Guilford led the West Squad with 35 points and was the game's leading scorer. Abdoulaye Oeudraogo from William Paterson led the East Squad with 18 points. Josh Sharlow of St. Lawrence had a great all-around game, as he made a nice feed to Darnell Braswell for an open layup with 2 seconds left in the game. Braswell was hammered and missed the lay-in but went to the line and made the 2 foul shots that accounted for the winning points. Sharlow scored 10 points, had 5 assists, 4 steals and 2 blocks. Hensen was unconscious as he drained three pointer after three pointer from all over the court. I don't know if they had an MVP for the game but he was clearly it.
Back and forth game between the Ephs and the Pointers as Williams leads 27-26 with 2:11 left to play in the 1st half.
Teams head to the break with Williams up 32-30.
Williams shot 54% in the half. Schultz and Whittington with 9 pts each to lead Williams.
Moses leads the Pointers with 12 pts. Pointers shot 44% for the period.
Both teams with 3 triples and both had 3 made free throws. Williams with 9 turnovers to only 4 for Stevens Point. Williams with 9 bench points all from Whittington, Pointers with 3 bench points.
Teams exchanging baskets as Williams holds a 3 pt lead 41-38 with 17:02 remaining.
Williams up by 5 43-38 with 15:46 to go.
Rubin hits a 3 to give the Ephs a 46-40 lead but Pointers Tillema hits a 3 that is changed to a 2 46-42 with 13:30 to go.
Ephs extend lead to 9 at 51-42. Schultz fouled on 3 pt attempt, knocks down all 3 free throws. Layup by Whittington folows.
Jumper by Pointers' Harris followed by Whittington dunk now 53-44 with 11:02 to play
Jumper by Pointers' Harris followed by Whittington dunk now 53-44 with 11:02 to play
Schultz with 16 pts. Whittington with 14 pts, 8 rebounds and 3 blocks.
Pointers on a 9-2 run only down 56-53.
Schultz just tagged with his 4th foul and goes to the bench. Score still 56-53 with 8:29 to play.
Watching down here in St Louis Magic on Directv... Great game....
Hurd 3 ties it up at 56 each. Ephs' Whittington and Pointers' Tillema trade baskets tied at 58 with 7:03 to go.
Quote from: hopefan on March 20, 2010, 02:37:06 PM
Watching down here in St Louis Magic on Directv... Great game....
Yes hopefan me too. And it is a great game. :)
3 3 3 3 3 3 we eastern fans are in trouble...
Pointers take a 66-59 lead on a Moses basket, Jenkins triple, Jenkins steal and layup and 1.
Pointers Tillema fouled as he tries a dunk. Makes em both 71-67 Pointers with 52 seconds to play.
Pointers up 71-68. Pointers going to the line for free throws. Mooses make makes em both now 73-68. Williams scores a quick layup now 73-70.
Stevens Point defeats Williams 78-73.
Great championship game-- well played by both teams. Congratulations to the Pointers of UW-Stevens Point on winning the 2009-2010 DIII Men's Basketball national championship.
Great game! I enjoyed Pat and Dave. Thanks for the audio cast.
Blake Schultz led the way for the Ephs with 20 pts. Troy Whittington with a huge game had 19 pts, 11 rebounds and 5 blocks. James Wang had 17 pts and Alex Rubin finished with 11.
Matt Moses led the Pointers and was the game's high scorer with 22 pts and 7 rebounds. Jared Jenkins had 17 pts, Dan Tillema scored 15 pts and Louis Hurd added 10 pts.
Williams can hold their head high as they completed a great season and all D3 fans were treated to a super championship game with 2 outstanding teams fighting it out to the end. Congratulations to both teams for their efforts.
Hello Greg Sager,
Check out the line of Lawrence from RMC...you may want to re-think your drink.
The "reward" concept seems pretty feeble to me, inasmuch as their "reward" is to look and feel thoroughly outclassed by their teammates and opponents in the senior All-Star game. Nevertheless, I accept the true rationale that I suspect is behind this, which is to cut down on costs by using four players who are already on the premises as of Friday night.
That's been established, about the cost. By the way, those two did not make fools of themselves on the court.
"Re-think your drink?" ???
Good for Lawrence. I root for the underdog, so I was pleased to see him do well. Doesn't change the essential fact, though, which is that players of his ilk -- seniors who see little or no court time -- don't really deserve to be in the senior All-Star game on merit. They're there as a cost-saving measure.
There definitely was some talk about that this past weekend about how they can lessen their reliance on the teams that lose in the semifinals. It's not as simple as the committee just choosing another player on each side because as those of us who have observed NABC All-American teams have seen, they are committed to representing each region equally, regardless of their quality or their size.
And let's not forget... the two seniors from RMC did play well and got plenty of playing time. Heck, Tim Lawrence had 11 points and his game-winning attempt at the end of regulation practically went in before hitting the rim for the second or third time and bouncing out.
I understand there is an opinion that those type of seniors don't deserve to be in the game, however the NABC can't afford to just fly in a couple of extra guys and have them sit their in case they were needed. Secondly, as one coach put it to me, those seniors were part of a unit that got to the Final Four and they deserve to be honored for that accomplishment as well.
Let's not belittle those seniors. Is there a better option? Maybe. I know it is being discussed and I know plenty of ideas have been bounced around, but honestly none of those options are as ideal, in my opinion.
Remember, this is the first year of this game... and it exceeded expectations. There will probably be some tweaks and there has always been ideas bounced off the walls... and the toughest is how to reward a few extra players but not pay a ton of money at the last minute to get a couple of extra players to the game's site because of how the Final Four shaped up and how the championship game might shape up.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 24, 2010, 06:30:10 AM
Remember, this is the first year of this game... and it exceeded expectations. There will probably be some tweaks and there has always been ideas bounced off the walls... and the toughest is how to reward a few extra players but not pay a ton of money at the last minute to get a couple of extra players to the game's site because of how the Final Four shaped up and how the championship game might shape up.
While the scenario that played out this year may not have resulted in the best possible all-star team I think the format is the best for the fans in attendance. The Guilford and Randolph-Macon fans got to see a couple of their players hit the court one more time rather than the weekend ending up a complete one and done. As someone that traveled to a previous Final Four and ultimately saw my team lose in the first semi-final I can support adding a couple guys from the losing team to the all-star game whether they would have been selected to such a team or not. This all-star format may be more entertaining and fulfilling for all invovled than a third place game.
Agreed -- I think one from each is an appropriate number, even if there isn't necessarily a senior who is a key contributor.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 24, 2010, 06:30:10 AMLet's not belittle those seniors. Is there a better option? Maybe. I know it is being discussed and I know plenty of ideas have been bounced around, but honestly none of those options are as ideal, in my opinion.
I'm not belittling anyone. I have the utmost respect for senior benchwarmers, always have. They are the epitome of what D3 is all about, in my opinion; if D3 student-athletes play for the love of the game, how much more zeal and devotion is there in the guys who don't get much playing time, yet are still participating in their fourth and final year and doing their bit by practicing hard in order to sharpen the starters on a daily basis?
But let's not kid ourselves and equate them with national All-Stars. They're in the senior All-Star game so that the NABC can save money, a compromise that I fully understand and with which at the end of the day I have no complaints. Better three-quarters of a loaf than no loaf at all.
Quote from: ziggy on March 24, 2010, 10:06:27 AM
While the scenario that played out this year may not have resulted in the best possible all-star team I think the format is the best for the fans in attendance. The Guilford and Randolph-Macon fans got to see a couple of their players hit the court one more time rather than the weekend ending up a complete one and done. As someone that traveled to a previous Final Four and ultimately saw my team lose in the first semi-final I can support adding a couple guys from the losing team to the all-star game whether they would have been selected to such a team or not. This all-star format may be more entertaining and fulfilling for all invovled than a third place game.
This is a good point, but I suspect that it's hard to quantify. How many fans are willing to stay an extra day in Salem after their team is defeated in the semis so that they can watch a beloved senior or two participate in the All-Star game? If there are such fans -- does anyone know if any Guilford and/or RMC fans hang around in order to watch their players participate in the Saturday prelim? -- then that means more people filling the stands on Saturday, which we can all agree is a good thing.
Guilford and RMC might not be the best examples since their fans can easily drive home after their team loses. Fans that have come from schools further away may have already committed to two or three nights of hotel, so I would think it's more realistic that some of their fans would come out to the All-Star game.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 24, 2010, 02:50:42 PM
Guilford and RMC might not be the best examples since their fans can easily drive home after their team loses. Fans that have come from schools further away may have already committed to two or three nights of hotel, so I would think it's more realistic that some of their fans would come out to the All-Star game.
Good point about the distance this year compared to other years.
I would hope that it isn't too much to assume that someone willing to make a trek to Salem would have some level of interest in the Championship game even if their team lost on Friday. I think the current format for the all-star game works in the absence of a third place game.
I posted before on another thread, although skeptical before-hand, I wholeheartedly endorse the inclusion of the seniors from the losing teams. Many of the really fun moments in the all star game involved those guys, and their fans / teammates cheering them on vociferously. If they are great players, great, and if not, you have the whole underdog thing with a chance for their teammates to support (or in some cases, good-naturedly jeer) them. In some ways, it highlighted what is good about D-3 vs. D-1. D-1 would never do something like that, but it was fun to recognize those guys and a great catharsis for their teammates and fans after a dicouraging Friday night, and really, made the all-star game more fun to watch from a disinterested fan's standpoint as well.
Just a question about NCAA policy. If underclassmen players who were already at the Final Four played in the All-star game, would that violate any rules? Their season is over - it's not a sanctioned event and they wouldn't have had any extra expenses paid or anything.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 24, 2010, 05:16:29 PM
Just a question about NCAA policy. If underclassmen players who were already at the Final Four played in the All-star game, would that violate any rules? Their season is over - it's not a sanctioned event and they wouldn't have had any extra expenses paid or anything.
Players with eligibility left cannot compete in All-Star games (unless they wish to forfeit said eligibility). That's a blanket rule across every NCAA sport and Division. I can find you an NCAA rule citation if you'd like.
Home teams were 26-10.
Randolph-Macon never played a home game or an away game.
Williams, Guilford and Point, the other Final Four teams were 11-0 at home.
First round home teams were 11-5
| TEAM | CON | HOME | AWAY | NEUTRAL |
| Medaille | AMCC | | | 1-1 |
| Mary Hardin-Baylor | ASC | 0-1 | | |
| Texas-Dallas | ASC | 1-0 | 0-1 | |
| Wesley | CAC | | 0-1 | |
| St. Mary's (Md) | CAC | 2-1 | | |
| Gordon | CCC | | 0-1 | |
| Illinois Wesleyan | CCIW | | 1-1 | 2-0 |
| Wheaton | CCIW | | 1-1 | |
| Carthage | CCIW | 2-0 | | 0-1 |
| Frank & Marsh | Centennial | | 2-0 | 1-1 |
| Cabrini | CSAC | | | 0-1 |
| Brooklyn | CUNYAC | | 0-1 | |
| Nazareth | Empire 8 | | | 0-1 |
| St. John Fisher | Empire 8 | 1-1 | | |
| Albertus Magnus | GNAC | | 1-0 | 0-1 |
| Maryville | GSAC | | | 0-1 |
| Anderson | HCAC | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Defiance | HCAC | | | 0-1 |
| Central | IIAC | | | 0-1 |
| Chapman | IND | 1-0 | 0-1 | |
| Merchant Marine | LAND | 1-1 | | |
| Rhode Island C. | LEC | | 1-0 | 1-1 |
| St. Lawrence | Liberty | | | 0-1 |
| Albright | MACC | 0-1 | | |
| Lycoming | MACC | | | 0-1 |
| DeSales | MACF | | | 2-1 |
| Bridgewater St. | MASCAC | 0-1 | | |
| Hope | MIAA | | | 0-1 |
| Carleton | MIAC | | 0-1 | |
| St. Thomas | MIAC | | | 0-1 |
| St. Norbert | MWC | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Maine-Farmington | NAC | | 1-1 | |
| Aurora | NathCon | | 0-1 | |
| Wooster | NCAC | 2-0 | 0-1 | |
| SUNYIT | NEAC | | 1-1 | 1-0 |
| Williams | NESCAC | 3-0 | | 1-1 |
| Middlebury | NESCAC | 1-1 | | |
| Clark | NEWMAC | | 1-0 | 0-1 |
| MIT | NEWMAC | | | 0-1 |
| Richard Stockton | NJAC | | | 0-1 |
| Rutgers-Newark | NJAC | | | 0-1 |
| William Paterson | NJAC | 0-1 | | |
| Whitworth | NWC | 1-0 | | 0-1 |
| John Carroll | OAC | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Wilmington | OAC | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Guilford | ODAC | 4-0 | | 0-1 |
| Eastern Menn. | ODAC | 2-0 | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Randolph-Macon | ODAC | | | 4-1 |
| Virginia Wesleyan | ODAC | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Grove City | PrAC | | 0-1 | |
| Centre | SCAC | | 0-1 | |
| CMS | SCIAC | | 0-1 | |
| SUNY-Purchase | SKY | | 0-1 | |
| Westminster | SLIAC | | 0-1 | |
| Oneonta State | SUNYAC | | | 0-1 |
| Plattsburgh St. | SUNYAC | 0-1 | | |
| Brandeis | UAA | | 1-1 | 2-0 |
| Washington U. | UAA | 1-1 | | |
| Chris. Newport | USAC | | 0-1 | |
| UW-Stevens Point | WIAC | 4-0 | | 2-0 |
| UW-Whitewater | WIAC | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
Thanks Old School. I have added the team's post-season record to your table. [Corrections made. :) ]
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 27, 2010, 03:27:15 PM
Home teams were 26-10.
Randolph-Macon never played a home game or an away game.
Williams, Guilford and Point, the other Final Four teams were 11-0 at home.
First round home teams were 11-5
| TEAM | CONF | RECORD | HOME | AWAY | NEUTRAL |
| Medaille | AMCC | 1-1 | | | 1-1 |
| Mary Hardin-Baylor | ASC | 0-1 | 0-1 | | |
| Texas-Dallas | ASC | 1-1 +Bye | 1-0 | 0-1 | |
| Wesley | CAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| St. Mary's (Md) | CAC | 2-1 | 2-1 | | |
| Gordon | CCC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| Illinois Wesleyan | CCIW | 3-1 | | 1-1 | 2-0 |
| Wheaton | CCIW | 1-1 | | 1-1 | |
| Carthage | CCIW | 2-1 | 2-0 | | 0-1 |
| Frank & Marsh | Centennial | 3-1 | | 2-0 | 1-1 |
| Cabrini | CSAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Brooklyn | CUNYAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| Nazareth | Empire 8 | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| St. John Fisher | Empire 8 | 1-1 | 1-1 | | |
| Albertus Magnus | GNAC | 1-1 | | 1-0 | 0-1 |
| Maryville | GSAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Anderson | HCAC | 1-1 | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Defiance | HCAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Central | IIAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Chapman | IND | 1-1 | 1-0 | 0-1 | |
| Merchant Marine | LAND | 1-1 | 1-1 | | |
| Rhode Island C. | LEC | 2-1 | | 1-0 | 1-1 |
| St. Lawrence | Liberty | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Albright | MACC | 0-1 | 0-1 | | |
| Lycoming | MACC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| DeSales | MACF | 2-1 | | | 2-1 |
| Bridgewater St. | MASCAC | 0-1 | 0-1 | | |
| Hope | MIAA | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Carleton | MIAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| St. Thomas | MIAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| St. Norbert | MWC | 1-1 | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Maine-Farmington | NAC | 1-1 | | 1-1 | |
| Aurora | NathCon | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| Wooster | NCAC | 2-1 | 2-0 | 0-1 | |
| SUNYIT | NEAC | 2-1 | | 1-1 | 1-0 |
| Williams | NESCAC | 4-1 + Bye | 3-0 | | 1-1 |
| Middlebury | NESCAC | 1-1 | 1-1 | | |
| Clark | NEWMAC | 1-1 | | 1-0 | 0-1 |
| MIT | NEWMAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Richard Stockton | NJAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Rutgers-Newark | NJAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| William Paterson | NJAC | 0-1 | 0-1 | | |
| Whitworth | NWC | 1-1 + Bye | 1-0 | | 0-1 |
| John Carroll | OAC | 1-1 | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Wilmington | OAC | 1-1 | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Guilford | ODAC | 4-1 | 4-0 | | 0-1 |
| Eastern Menn. | ODAC | 3-1 | 2-0 | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Randolph-Macon | ODAC | 4-1 | | | 4-1 |
| Virginia Wesleyan | ODAC | 1-1 | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
| Grove City | PrAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| Centre | SCAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| CMS | SCIAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| SUNY-Purchase | SKY | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| Westminster | SLIAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| Oneonta State | SUNYAC | 0-1 | | | 0-1 |
| Plattsburgh St. | SUNYAC | 0-1 | 0-1 | | |
| Brandeis | UAA | 3-1 | | 1-1 | 2-0 |
| Washington U. | UAA | 1-1 | 1-1 | | |
| Chris. Newport | USAC | 0-1 | | 0-1 | |
| UW-Stevens Point | WIAC | 6-0 | 4-0 | | 2-0 |
| UW-Whitewater | WIAC | 1-1 | | 0-1 | 1-0 |
Just a note, I changed it in my table. MIT was 0-1 on a nuetral court, not 0-1 at home.
Home teams were 11-5 in the 1st round.
9-4 in the 2nd round.
3-1 in the Sweet 16.
3-0 in the Elite 8.
Eastern Mennonite was the only team to play at least one home game, one away game and one nuetral site game.
Prior to the Final Four (where obviously everyone is on a nuetral court), these teams never left home.
Mary Hardin-Baylor (0-1)
St. Mary's (2-1)
St. John Fisher (1-1)
Merchant Marine (1-1)
Albright (0-1)
Bridgewater State (0-1)
Middlebury (1-1)
Williams (3-0)
William Paterson (0-1)
Guilford (4-0)
Plattsburgh State (0-1)
Washington U. (1-1)
Stevens Point (4-0)
The best away/nuetral court record was Randolph-Macon at 4-1. They never played an away or home game.
Illinois Wesleyan, Franklin and Marshall and Brandeis went 3-1 in such games.
Rhode Island College and DeSales went 2-1 in away/nuetral court games.
Franklin and Marshall was the only team to go 2-0 on the road (not including nuetral court). Albertus Magnus, Rhode Island College and Clark also went undefeated on the road, albeit, 1-0.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 28, 2010, 04:36:33 PM
Illinois Wesleyan, Franklin and Marshall and Brandeis went 3-1 in such games.
Before facing Stevens Point at Stevens Point, IWU beat the IIAC champ (Central) on a neutral court, the UAA champ (Wash U) on their floor, and the CCIW champ (Carthage) on a neutral court.
A tough road and a nice run by the Titans.
| CON | REC | TEAMS |
| ODAC | 12-4 | RMC, Virginia Wes, E. Men., Guilford |
| WIAC | 7-1 | Stevens Point, Whitewater |
| CCIW | 6-3 | Carthage, Ill. Wes., Wheaton |
| NESCAC | 5-2 | Williams, Middlebury |
| UAA | 4-2 | Washington U, Brandeis |
| Centennial | 3-1 | Franklin and Marshall |
| CAC | 2-2 | Wesley, St. Mary's |
| OAC | 2-2 | John Carroll, Wilmington |
| LEC | 2-1 | Rhode Island College |
| MACF | 2-1 | DeSales |
| NCAC | 2-1 | Wooster |
| NEAC | 2-1 | SUNYIT |
| ASC | 1-2 | Mary Hardin-Baylor, Texas-Dallas |
| Empire 8 | 1-2 | Nazareth, St. John Fisher |
| HCAC | 1-2 | Anderson, Defiance |
| NEWMAC | 1-2 | Clark, MIT |
| AMCC | 1-1 | Medaille |
| GNAC | 1-1 | Albertus Magnus |
| IND | 1-1 | Chapman |
| LAND | 1-1 | Merchant Marine |
| MWC | 1-1 | St. Norbert |
| NAC | 1-1 | Maine-Farmington |
| NWC | 1-1 | Whitworth |
| NJAC | 0-3 | Rich Stock, Will Pat, Rutgers-Newark |
| MACC | 0-2 | Albright, Lycoming |
| MIAC | 0-2 | Carleton, St. Thomas |
| SUNYAC | 0-2 | Oneonta State, Plattsburgh State |
| CCC | 0-1 | Gordon |
| CSAC | 0-1 | Cabrini |
| CUNYAC | 0-1 | Brooklyn |
| GSAC | 0-1 | Maryville |
| IIAC | 0-1 | Central |
| Liberty | 0-1 | St. Lawrence |
| MASCAC | 0-1 | Bridgewater State |
| MIAA | 0-1 | Hope |
| NathCon | 0-1 | Aurora |
| PrAC | 0-1 | Grove City |
| SCAC | 0-1 | Centre |
| SCIAC | 0-1 | Claremont-Mudd-Scripps |
| SKY | 0-1 | SUNY-Purchase |
| SLIAC | 0-1 | Westminster |
| USAC | 0-1 | Christopher Newport |
In the last 10 seasons (2000-01 through 2009-10), Illinois Wesleyan has a 17-6 (.739) record in the NCAA tournament (6 appearances). In that span, the Titans have only played 3 home games (all 3 were in Round 1).
That 17-win mark is very impressive considering IWU's roads the last 10 years. I guess also impressive in that the Titans have had 3 head coaches in the last 10 seasons (and had to go through 2 coaching changes).
Yeah, that 2006 run was pretty impressive with wins over Whitewater on the road and then over #1 and undefeated Lawrence in Appleton. Then, they lost by 2 in the semis to Virg. Wes., if I'm correct. It's too bad they weren't able to come home with any hardware.
Quote from: Old School.... (Tom Doebler) on March 28, 2010, 05:13:50 PM
Yeah, that 2006 run was pretty impressive with wins over Whitewater on the road and then over #1 and undefeated Lawrence in Appleton. Then, they lost by 2 in the semis to Virg. Wes., if I'm correct. It's too bad they weren't able to come home with any hardware.
The 2001 run was similar. IWU won @ IIAC champ Wartburg in Round 2, vs CCIW champ Elmhurst in Round 3 on a neutral court, and then beat #1-ranked Chicago in the Elite 8, on Chicago's floor.
In the last 10 seasons, IWU has knocked off 5 #1 or #2-ranked teams (all on the road)...
* March 6, 2010 - IWU 75 (#1) Wash U 70 (@ Wash U) - Round 2
* March 10, 2006 - IWU 63 (#1) Lawrence 59 (@ Lawrence) - Round 3
* March 6, 2004 - IWU 77 (#2) Hanover 67 (@ Hanover) - Round 2
* March 8, 2003 - IWU 85 (#2) Wash U 73 (@ Wash U) - Round 2
* March 10, 2001 - IWU 77 (#1) Chicago 68 (@ Chicago) - Round 4
Some great games there.
How good of a high school backcourt was Sean Wallis and Jon Scheyer?!
I didn't know Wallis and Scheyer played together ... not to mention Zach Kelly! Wallis had more assists and shot a better percentage from three than Scheyer, recently named a second team all-American ... not too shabby. That is a heck of a high school team:
http://www.ihsa.org/activity/bkb/2004-05/2info5.htm
Time for the annual subject name change! The best 3 weeks of the year.
Who are the current A's?
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/25/whos-in-the-mens-tournament-2/
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 26, 2011, 12:18:26 PM
http://www.d3blogs.com/d3hoops/2011/02/25/whos-in-the-mens-tournament-2/
Oh yeah! THX Pat. Use your super powers to rename subject next or is that Ralph's job?
Renamed, if I did it right.
So.... things are still muddy at this point, but I took a stab at the West/Midwest in terms of how some pod hostings might look. See whatcha think.
Of course, this depends on how everything else goes from here... but...
First off, Stevens Point isn't going to host the pod. Their women are. So we know that the Pointers will travel. But who will host the pods?
I would have put my money on Concordia of Mequon... they were the top-ranked team in the Midwest region.
But then they lost in the Semi's of the Northern Athletic conf championship last night and Benedictine won the NathCon bid. I still think they (CUW) are going to get in, and they may even host... but I'd say their chances are a little bit diminished.
If not there, my money would be on Augustana or St. Thomas (... again...). But it really depends who all is in.
This is the last regional ranking for the Midwest region and the West region:
Midwest Region
1 Concordia (Wis.) 20-2 22-3 Lost NAC Semi's
2 Augustana 21-2 22-2 Won CCIW bid
3 Manchester 18-5 19-6 Plays Hanover in the HCAC championship
4 Hanover 18-6 18-6 Plays @Manchester in the HCAC championship
5 Anderson 15-7 17-8 Lost in HCAC semi's
6 Milwaukee Engineering 18-6 19-6 Lost NAC Semi's
7 Benedictine 17-6 18-7 Won NAC bid
8 St. Norbert 18-5 18-5 Won MWC bid
West Region
1 Whitworth 24-1 24-1 Currently playing in the NWC title game vs. Whitman... tied 26-26 at the half
2 St. Thomas 21-3 22-3 Hosting Gustavus Adolphus MIAC title game 2/27
3 UW-Stevens Point 21-3 22-3 Won WIAC bid
4 Chapman 14-1 21-3 Pool B bid
5 Carleton 18-5 18-7 Lost in MIAC semi's
6 UW-River Falls 17-5 19-6 Lost in WIAC final
7 Whitman 13-5 18-7 Currently playing in the NWC title game at Whitworth... tied 26-26 at the half
8 Lewis and Clark 12-5 18-7 Lost in NWC semi's
9 UW-Whitewater 16-8 17-8 Lost in WIAC semi's
Whitworth is either going to host a 3 team pod if they beat Whitman tonight or a 4 team pod if they lose, with Chapman (they've got the lone Pool B bid locked down) and the SCIAC champ. That pod is pretty much locked down.
Elsewhere in the Midwest/West, these teams are in:
CCIW: Augustana
Northern Athletic: Benedictine (Concordia of Wisconsin is a pool C lock, but haven't officially gotten their bid yet)
Midwest : St. Norbert
UMAC: Northwestern
IIAC: Luther
WIAC: Point (River Falls looks to be in pretty good shape for a Pool C bid)
MIAC: St. Thomas is a Pool C lock if they lose... could be Gustavus Adolphus with the upset. Carleton has a decent chance at a Pool C bid.
So that's 10 teams right there...
There are a few more Midwest region conferences that are a little farther away...
SLIAC: Webster
HCAC: Winner of Manchester/Hanover... the loser could get a Pool C, but that would be after River Falls' bid, I think. And maybe Anderson(?)
So that's 12-14 teams.
The three hosts as I see it would be St. Thomas, Augustana, and Concordia. That's if they don't include the MIAC in any midwestern pods like they've done several times in recent year or if they don't include any teams from the South region like they did last year. And that could all still happen... if they ship some teams to the Great Lakes like they did to Whitewater last year or La Crosse back in '06.
So, really, there's a lot of unknowns at this point... but I don't see any teams with better hosting resumes than Augie/St. Thomas/Concordia/Whitworth, and if you're in the midwest, you're definitely not heading out to Oregon Washington for the first two rounds.
Now, there were no considerations for bids across the country... I guess there's a chance the teams I've mentioned won't make it... but that doesn't include my 4 pod hosts.
PointSpecial. If the Whitworth pod is only 3 teams, I would be surprised if Chapman didn't host CMS/Redlands with the winner going to Spokane. The NCAA would save much $$$$$.
If 4 team, I would agree that Whitworth would host all the games.
Thanks for all your postings thru the year. Your efforts are most commendable! Good luck to your team!
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:28:39 PM
PointSpecial. If the Whitworth pod is only 3 teams, I would be surprised if Chapman didn't host CMS/Redlands with the winner going to Spokane. The NCAA would save much $$$$$.
If 4 team, I would agree that Whitworth would host all the games.
Thanks for all your postings thru the year. Your efforts are most commendable! Good luck to your team!
...which makes "seeding" sense, too.
Quote from: dahlby on February 26, 2011, 11:28:39 PM
PointSpecial. If the Whitworth pod is only 3 teams, I would be surprised if Chapman didn't host CMS/Redlands with the winner going to Spokane. The NCAA would save much $$$$$.
If 4 team, I would agree that Whitworth would host all the games.
Thanks for all your postings thru the year. Your efforts are most commendable! Good luck to your team!
My pleasure! It's a ton of fun for me to follow my team, especially when they're playing well, and I've been lucky enough that they've played well as consistently as anybody in the country for the last decade!
Yep, you've got the 3-team pod right... Chapman hosts, then on to Whitworth, just like last year... and pretty much every other year in recent memory!
PointSpecial - I think you are right on pods then I would predict these pairings - St. Thomas, River Falls, Northwestern, Luther. Concordia, Stevens Point, Hanover, St. Norbert. Augustana, Webster, Manchester, Benedictine
Don't forget Hope in your calculations. They're a long way away from the rest of the GL bids (Wooster, Marietta, Bethany, and probably Penn St.-Behrend) and seem to be as likely to head west (or host such teams) as to head southeast.
And ohbytheway, nobody is "heading out to Oregon for the first two rounds," unless they plan to take a hard right at Pendelton. :-*
::) Er, did I say Oregon?
Yeah, I realized it was wrong after I posted it but forgot to change it!
DePauw could factor in as well in these pods if they win... they play 10-16 Hendrix tomorrow
A little bit clearer... the West/Midwest picture:
Midwest Region
1 Concordia (Wis.) 20-2 22-3 Lost NAC Semi's
2 Augustana 21-2 22-2 Won CCIW bid
3 Manchester 18-5 19-6 Plays Hanover in the HCAC championship
4 Hanover 18-6 18-6 Plays @Manchester in the HCAC championship
5 Anderson 15-7 17-8 Lost in HCAC semi's
6 Milwaukee Engineering 18-6 19-6 Lost NAC Semi's
7 Benedictine 17-6 18-7 Won NAC bid
8 St. Norbert 18-5 18-5 Won MWC bid
West Region
1 Whitworth 24-1 24-1 Won NWC bid
2 St. Thomas 21-3 22-3 Hosting Gustavus Adolphus MIAC title game 2/27
3 UW-Stevens Point 21-3 22-3 Won WIAC bid
4 Chapman 14-1 21-3 Pool B bid
5 Carleton 18-5 18-7 Lost in MIAC semi's
6 UW-River Falls 17-5 19-6 Lost in WIAC final
7 Whitman 13-5 18-7 Lost in NWC finals
8 Lewis and Clark 12-5 18-7 Lost in NWC semi's
9 UW-Whitewater 16-8 17-8 Lost in WIAC semi's
Whitworth is either going to host a 3 team pod if they beat Whitman tonight or a 4 team pod if they lose, with Chapman (they've got the lone Pool B bid locked down) and the SCIAC champ. That pod is pretty much locked down.
NWC: Whitworth
Ind: Chapman
SCIAC: Redlands/CMS winner
Elsewhere in the Midwest/West, these teams are in:
CCIW: Augustana
Northern Athletic: Benedictine (Concordia of Wisconsin is a pool C lock, but haven't officially gotten their bid yet)
Midwest : St. Norbert
UMAC: Northwestern
IIAC: Luther
WIAC: Point (River Falls looks to be in pretty good shape for a Pool C bid)
MIAC: St. Thomas is a Pool C lock if they lose... could be Gustavus Adolphus with the upset. Carleton has a decent chance at a Pool C bid.
So that's 10 teams right there...
There are a few more midwestern conferences/teams that are a little farther away...
SLIAC: Webster
HCAC: Winner of Manchester/Hanover... the loser could get a Pool C, but that would be after River Falls' bid, I think. And maybe Anderson(?)
SCAC: Depauw (plays Hendrix for the SCAC title 2/27)
MIAA: Hope
That's more than enough teams to populate three more pods...
The three hosts as I see it would be St. Thomas, Augustana, and Concordia. That's if they don't include the MIAC in any midwestern pods like they've done several times in recent year or if they don't include any teams from the South region like they did last year. And that could all still happen... if they ship some teams to the Great Lakes like they did to Whitewater last year or La Crosse back in '06.
Pod Hosts: Whitworth, St. Thomas, Concordia (WI), Augustana
So who's likely to get the other 2 byes besides Whitworth?
Quote from: ronk on February 27, 2011, 12:20:30 AM
So who's likely to get the other 2 byes besides Whitworth?
You may need another geographic bye, if UTD gets a Pool C to go with the ASC Pool A bid, (either UMHB or McMurry.)
Trinity lost to DePauw by 2 today, so there is the last team in this part of the country who might fit into a pod.
Quote from: ronk on February 27, 2011, 12:20:30 AM
So who's likely to get the other 2 byes besides Whitworth?
I think Middlebury is a lock - unless there's so many teams from the NE (which is a good possibility) that they need everyone to play in the first round.
The third bye is up for grabs based on seeding and travel needs.
Tournament hopefuls
Pool C ONLY
Atlantic Region
1 Ramapo 19-3 20-5 (NJAC): LOST to Montclair State 67-64 in semis
3 Kean 17-5 18-7 (NJAC): LOST to NJCU 75-61 in semis
4 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 18-5 20-5 (SKY): BEAT Mount Saint Vincent 68-60, BEAT Mount Saint Mary 78-75 OT in semis; LOST to SUNY-Purchase 81-66 in final
5 Mount Saint Mary 18-7 18-7 (SKY): LOST to St. Joseph's (L.I.) 78-75 OT in semis
East Region
1 Oswego State 22-3 22-3 (SUNYAC): BEAT Potsdam State 64-50 in quarterfinals, LOST Brockport State 74-70 in semis
2 Ithaca 19-5 20-5 (E8): LOST to St. John Fisher 88-75 in semis
4 Stevens 19-6 19-6 (E8): LOST to Hartwick 76-73 in semis
5 Hobart 19-5 19-6 (LL): LOST to Hamilton 62-60 in semis
Great Lakes Region
3 Penn State-Behrend 22-2 22-3 (AMCC): BEAT Medaille 58-51 in semis; LOST to La Roche 55-53 in final
5 Thiel 15-3 18-6 (PrAC): BEAT Waynesburg 73-63 in quarterfinals, BEAT Thomas More 78-65 in semis; LOST to Bethany 74-67 in final
6 Wabash 18-5 19-5 (NCAC): BEAT Kenyon 72-61 in quarterfinals, LOST to Wittenberg 65-63 in semis
**Wittenberg: LOST to Wooster in NCAC Final
Middle Atlantic Region
4 Gwynedd-Mercy 19-4 20-5 (CSAC): BEAT Keystone 85-65 in semis, LOST to Cabrini 92-70 in final
5 Keystone 21-5 21-5 (CSAC): LOST to Gwynedd-Mercy 85-65 in semis
6 Lebanon Valley 17-6 19-6 (MACC): BEAT Widener 58-56 in semis, LOST to Alvernia in final 57-55
8 DeSales 16-7 18-7 (MACF): BEAT Misericordia 78-69 in semis, LOST to Delaware Valley 79-58 in final
9 Wesley 15-5 16-9 (CAC): BEAT Salisbury 75-74 in semis; LOST to St. Mary's (Md.) 97-65 in final
Midwest Region
1 Concordia (Wis.) 20-2 22-3 (NATH): LOST to Edgewood 95-89 in semis
4 Hanover 18-6 18-6 (HCAC): BEAT Anderson 62-50 in semis; LOST to Manchester 79-69 in final
5 Anderson 15-7 17-8 (HCAC): BEAT Bluffton 75-60 in quarterfinals; LOST to Hanover 62-50 in semis
6 Milwaukee Engineering 18-6 19-6 (NATH): LOST to Aurora 72-67 in quarterfinals
**Edgewood: LOST to Benedictine in NATH Final
Northeast Region
1 Williams 21-1 23-1 (NESCAC): BEAT Trinity (Conn.) in semis 79-69; LOST Middlebury 63-54 in final
3 WPI 21-3 21-4 (NEWMAC): BEAT Coast Guard 62-51 in semis; LOST MIT in final
4 Becker 22-3 22-3 (NECC): BEAT Newbury 84-75 in semis; LOST Elms 79-65 in final
5 Amherst 21-2 22-2 (NESCAC): LOST to Middlebury 67-61 in semis
6 Western Connecticut State 20-4 21-4 (LEC): LOST Eastern Connecticut State 94-70 in semis
9 Eastern Connecticut State 15-7 17-8 (LEC): BEAT Western Connecticut State 94-70 in semis; LOST to Rhode Island College 62-49 in final
10 Brandeis 16-8 16-8 (UAA): LOST to NYU 70-54
11 Roger Williams 17-8 17-8 (CCC): LOST to Endicott 71-68 in CCC quarterfinals
South Region
1 Virginia Wesleyan 20-3 22-3 (ODAC): BEAT Washington and Lee 98-78 in quarterfinals; LOST to Randolph 80-76 in semis
3 Texas-Dallas 19-4 20-5 (ASC): BEAT Concordia (Texas) 85-70 in quarterfinals; LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor 77-69 in semis
4 Ferrum 18-4 21-4 (USAC): BEAT Christopher Newport 87-81 in semis; LOST to North Carolina Wesleyan 74-70 OT in final
5 Eastern Mennonite 15-4 21-4 (ODAC): BEAT Hampden-Sydney 76-75 in quarterfinals; LOST to Randolph-Macon 90-79 in semis
7 Mary Hardin-Baylor 19-6 19-6 (ASC): BEAT Texas-Tyler 73-68 in quarterfinals; BEAT Texas-Dallas 77-69 in semis; LOST McMurry 72-65 in ASC final
8 Emory 18-5 19-5 (UAA): BEAT Rochester 83-72
West Region
5 Carleton 18-5 18-7 (MIAC): LOST to Gustavus Adolphus 70-64 in semis
6 UW-River Falls 17-5 19-6 (WIAC): BEAT Platteville 69-60 in semis; LOST Stevens Point 79-56 in final
7 Whitman 13-5 18-7 (NWC): BEAT Lewis and Clark 79-76 in semis; LOST to Whitworth 74-50 in final
8 Lewis and Clark 12-5 18-7 (NWC): LOST to Whitman 79-76 in semis
9 UW-Whitewater 16-8 17-8 (WIAC): LOST to Superior 78-72 in quarterfinals
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2011, 03:15:06 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 27, 2011, 12:20:30 AM
So who's likely to get the other 2 byes besides Whitworth?
I think Middlebury is a lock - unless there's so many teams from the NE (which is a good possibility) that they need everyone to play in the first round.
The third bye is up for grabs based on seeding and travel needs.
I think you'll see one in the MW/West. It looks like there are an odd number of teams West of Ohio including the 2 Texas teams.
Unless the NCAA moves someone around, they could use a bye for a St. Thomas or Steven Point pod.
Quote from: sac on February 27, 2011, 10:57:37 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 27, 2011, 03:15:06 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 27, 2011, 12:20:30 AM
So who's likely to get the other 2 byes besides Whitworth?
I think Middlebury is a lock - unless there's so many teams from the NE (which is a good possibility) that they need everyone to play in the first round.
The third bye is up for grabs based on seeding and travel needs.
I think you'll see one in the MW/West. It looks like there are an odd number of teams West of Ohio including the 2 Texas teams.
Unless the NCAA moves someone around, they could use a bye for a St. Thomas or Steven Point pod.
Well, Stevens Point isn't going to host... at least not the first round because the women will host instead.
And I think that the byes will most likely be in the Northeast, like they have been in the past... there are some teams with really good resumes and lots of schools in the region, so it isn't like giving a team a bye would mean that there aren't enough teams to host/be hosted.
Bracketology said: If one of my projected Pool C winners fails to get selected, they'll probably be replaced with one of these "Left on the Board" teams. These are the top teams in each region that had not yet been selected. The only team not on the list above that may still have a breath of life come Monday is Eastern Mennonite. They have a decent resume, but I don't think they've done much to separate themselves from Texas-Dallas or Ferrum.
I disagree:
Eastern Mennonite ended 21-5 with big wins over VA Wesleyan and Ferrum in the South Region. All losses were in the ODAC. Three of their losses came to Randolph Macon who return almost everyone from their final-4 run last year. The ODAC deserves 3 teams in the tournament. Last year three made it to the elite 8, including Eastern Mennonite who lost to Guilford at Guilford. No one from the South wanted to schedule with EMU since they returned all five starters from their elite 8 run last year, thus they had to play PA and NAIA schools.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 02:15:25 AM
Here is 2 brackets (NON EAST) using Matt's field. This leaves 30 teams all Northeast and 2 byes. There is only 1 flight in this and it is to Whitworth by California winner. Round 2 could be hosted by Whitworth with 3 flights or by Ohio pod with perhaps only 1 flight.
Bracket 1
| HOST | Whitworth | | BYE | | HOST | Chapman | | TRAVEL | Redlands |
| HOST | Randolph Macon | | TRAVEL | Virginia Wesleyan | | TRAVEL | North Carolina Wesleyan | | TRAVEL | St. Mary's (MD) |
| HOST | Texas Dallas | | TRAVEL | Bethany | | TRAVEL | Webster | | TRAVEL | McMurry |
| HOST | Amherst | | TRAVEL | Hope | | TRAVEL | Wittenberg | | TRAVEL | Centre |
Bracket 2
| HOST | St Norbert | | TRAVEL | Concordia | | TRAVEL | UW Stevens Point | | TRAVEL | Carleton |
| HOST | St Thomas | | TRAVEL | Northwestern (Minn) | | TRAVEL | UW River Falls | | TRAVEL | Luther |
| HOST | Augustana | | TRAVEL | Benedictine | | TRAVEL | Hanover | | TRAVEL | Manchester |
| HOST | Wooster | | TRAVEL | PennSt Behrend | | TRAVEL | Marietta | | TRAVEL | Buffalo St. |
|
Nice effort, but Hope, Wittenberg and Centre would all be flights to Amherst. Amherst is in Massachusetts.
Bethany and Webster to UT-Dallas would be flights as well
Here are 2 brackets (NON EAST) using Matt's field. This leaves 30 teams all Northeast and 2 byes. There are 3 flights in this. To Whitworth by California winner. Bethany (432 miles)?? and Webster to Dallas. Thx Sac for geo help!
Bracket 1
| HOST | Whitworth | | BYE | | HOST | Chapman | | TRAVEL | Redlands |
| HOST | Randolph Macon | | TRAVEL | Virginia Wesleyan | | TRAVEL | North Carolina Wesleyan | | TRAVEL | St. Mary's (MD) |
| HOST | Texas Dallas | | TRAVEL | Bethany | | TRAVEL | Webster | | TRAVEL | McMurry |
| HOST | Wittenberg | | TRAVEL | Hope | | TRAVEL | Centre | | TRAVEL | La Roche |
Bracket 2
| HOST | St Norbert | | TRAVEL | Concordia | | TRAVEL | UW Stevens Point | | TRAVEL | Carleton |
| HOST | St Thomas | | TRAVEL | Northwestern (Minn) | | TRAVEL | UW River Falls | | TRAVEL | Luther |
| HOST | Augustana | | TRAVEL | Benedictine | | TRAVEL | Hanover | | TRAVEL | Manchester |
| HOST | Wooster | | TRAVEL | PennSt Behrend | | TRAVEL | Marietta | | TRAVEL | Buffalo St. |
|
I think that you have 2 geographic byes...
Whitworth/Chapman/Redlands
and TBA/McMurry/UT-Dallas
an hour to go: Lusty Larry's bracket based on geography has the following mix:
WEST: 17 teams
MW/South: 13 teams
Northeast: 14 teams
Midatlantic/NY: 17 teams
thats a quick and dirty look, and obviously no bracket can have more than 16 and i have no time or desire to do a projected pairings. Plus theyll mash up the NE/Mid atl/RI and NJ teams.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 08:00:51 AM
I think that you have 2 geographic byes...
Whitworth/Chapman/Redlands
and TBA/McMurry/UT-Dallas
What's your take on Matt Snyder's slotting of Centre for a 1st round game in Wisconsin against UWSP? I know Centre is low on the totem pole in regional rankings, but this projection surprised me a bit.
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 28, 2011, 12:17:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 08:00:51 AM
I think that you have 2 geographic byes...
Whitworth/Chapman/Redlands
and TBA/McMurry/UT-Dallas
What's your take on Matt Snyder's slotting of Centre for a 1st round game in Wisconsin against UWSP? I know Centre is low on the totem pole in regional rankings, but this projection surprised me a bit.
I didn't do any bracketing. The projected brackets were done by Pat Coleman.
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 28, 2011, 12:17:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 08:00:51 AM
I think that you have 2 geographic byes...
Whitworth/Chapman/Redlands
and TBA/McMurry/UT-Dallas
What's your take on Matt Snyder's slotting of Centre for a 1st round game in Wisconsin against UWSP? I know Centre is low on the totem pole in regional rankings, but this projection surprised me a bit.
I am sure the low totem pole is being factored in here for Centre. 614 miles means airfare and I see this as unlikely. I also don't think that Randy Mac needs nor deserves a 1st round bye. Again, unnecessary travel in the first 2 rounds. I am personally hoping the committee is looking to limit the first 2 rounds travel in order to reserve flights for round 3 and 4. Maybe makes for some more difficult/easy round 1 and 2's but if they are placing their first 16 teams away from each other and then filling in the rest, rounds 3 and 4 should be excellent and competitive games.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
I also don't think that Randy Mac needs nor deserves a 1st round bye.
Agreed and agreed.
By my count there is 3 flights in the D3hoops projected bracket. And no Eastern Mennonite. It is using Matt's field correct?
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 28, 2011, 12:17:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 08:00:51 AM
I think that you have 2 geographic byes...
Whitworth/Chapman/Redlands
and TBA/McMurry/UT-Dallas
What's your take on Matt Snyder's slotting of Centre for a 1st round game in Wisconsin against UWSP? I know Centre is low on the totem pole in regional rankings, but this projection surprised me a bit.
I didn't do any bracketing. The projected brackets were done by Pat Coleman.
I stand corrected - Pat's projections. Guess I'll just wait until the actual brackets are announced!
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
I am sure the low totem pole is being factored in here for Centre. 614 miles means airfare and I see this as unlikely.
NW, I only get 488 miles from Centre to Concordia using the NCAA's travel calculator.
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
Quote from: Just Bill on February 28, 2011, 12:54:26 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
I am sure the low totem pole is being factored in here for Centre. 614 miles means airfare and I see this as unlikely.
NW, I only get 488 miles from Centre to Concordia using the NCAA's travel calculator.
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
My error. I mapped to Point and we know they wont be hosting. Still a long way by 12 miles. "Possible" must flight if weather gets factored.
What is the over/under on mispronunciations? :)
I wonder if they spent more time writing the script than they did actually planning the bracket?
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:06:49 PM
I wonder if they spent more time writing the script than they did actually planning the bracket?
:D +1
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 01:04:18 PM
What is the over/under on mispronunciations?
9
He's doing a good job so far. He even through in a "Gwynedd" when he didn't have to.
Is Husson pronounced "Hew-son?" I've never heard it done that way before.
Also, VWC is not packing its bags; it's hosting.
MHB gets in. Who gets bumped?!
Keep with the updates... I can't get the broadcast at work!
Point gets St. Norbert - winner gets (probably) Concordia. Easy pod.
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
How did IWU get in over Eastern Mennonite?
Looks like Keystone and Carlton didn't get in. MHB and IWU does from Matt's picks. NO Eastern Mennonite. Highest ranked non invitee.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:19:10 PM
Point gets St. Norbert - winner gets (probably) Concordia. Easy pod.
At Concordia or St. Norbert?
another atrocious bracket by the NCAA. like i said earlier, without criticism you can put together a festering pile of dog crap, which is what i will clean up using this bracket
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:19:10 PM
Point gets St. Norbert - winner gets (probably) Concordia. Easy pod.
St. Norb's is pretty good.
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
How did IWU get in over Eastern Mennonite?
The committee doesn't like losing in the semis over teams that get beat by 50 in the final.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2011, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:19:10 PM
Point gets St. Norbert - winner gets (probably) Concordia. Easy pod.
St. Norb's is pretty good.
They put St. Thomas, IWU, and River Falls in the same pod. It's easier than that.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2011, 01:24:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:19:10 PM
Point gets St. Norbert - winner gets (probably) Concordia. Easy pod.
St. Norb's is pretty good.
Yes no cakewalk for Point at least not at St. Norbert.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
How did IWU get in over Eastern Mennonite?
The committee doesn't like losing in the semis over teams that get beat by 50 in the final.
Now, be fair - it was less than half that! And they beat Augie just 4 days before.
http://www.d3hoops.com/playoffs/men/2011/bracket-released
Full bracket for those who need it.
OMG was that nerve wracking.
Once I saw Illinois Wesleyan up there I didn't the Colonials had a chance. I wish they had done the right side first starting at the bottom/
I know Lusty Larry doesn't like traveling but this bracket is just fine.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
How did IWU get in over Eastern Mennonite?
The committee doesn't like losing in the semis over teams that get beat by 50 in the final.
1 wrong was more than 3 rights it would seem.
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2011, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
How did IWU get in over Eastern Mennonite?
The committee doesn't like losing in the semis over teams that get beat by 50 in the final.
Now, be fair - it was less than half that! And they beat Augie just 4 days before.
HF's post isn't about IWU, Ypsi.
At first glance, it looks like a winnable pod for Rochester in Ithaca, NY--
I think that Rochester can get by Coach Ed Silva's Elms Blazers squad-- but I remember the last time Brandeis played at Elms a few years ago, and that was an exciting ball game.
The second round looks winnable for the Yellowjackets as well-- against either Ithaca or MIT.
We will see how the games play out.
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
Ill Wesleyan gets in and EMU is left home.....come on now!
Region records this, region records that....no way EMU should be watching this tourney from home, 3 of their 5 losses come at the hands of a RMC team that has all the pieces to win a National Championship( Not to mention they returned 7 Sr's from last season's Final Four team)!!!
Wow, Unreal!!!
Selection committee blew that one... >:(
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
I am grateful, considering all of the other times that a "50-50" decision goes the other way against the (ASC) confernece.
McMurry got in as the "upset" Pool A bid, but this conference is stronger than most people realize! Remember that McMurry only lost to D-1 SMU by three points at home back in December. This is the first season for McMurry head coach Matt Garnett. He is finally getting the team to believe in his system.
In the two previous tourneys, UTD went to the Elite 8 (2009 and lost in OT to Guilford) and then beat Wheaton only to lose a key player before their Sweet 16 loss. UTD did not run away from the upper echelon of the 15-team ASC in either year.
pat i like traveling just fine if its worth the effort (although thanks to Obama gas is now $3.50 a gallon, a record for this time of year, and traveling 350 miles at 2.20 is different than traveling at 3.50).
A lot of teams got hosed. some deservedly, some not. my point as it is for all levels of bball, teams that win both the reg season AND conf tournament should be rewarded.
Quote from: Just Bill on February 28, 2011, 12:54:26 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
I am sure the low totem pole is being factored in here for Centre. 614 miles means airfare and I see this as unlikely.
NW, I only get 488 miles from Centre to Concordia using the NCAA's travel calculator.
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
I'm happy going to Marietta. Sure didn't like the idea of heading to Wisconsin.
I think the NJAC has a chance to get 2 teams to the Sweet 16. The last I remember was Montclair and Ramapo in 2003 and Ramapo beat Montclair to get to the Elite 8.
I was surprise at all the press Kean was getting. Montclair beat Ramapo at home in the NJAC Tournament and had a better record (20-7) then Kean. I could not figure it out (maybe SOS), but I'm sure someone will fill me in.
That being said, when do the ECAC bids come out? I would like to see Montclair and Kean play each other.
It's extremely hard to see this committee simply ignore it's own stated criteria. I can handle UT-Dallas over Carleton, but how in the heck IWU with it's meager .692 in-region win percentage and 2-2 record against regionally-ranked foes made it over Carleton, well I'll go to my grave believing that the Knights got hosed. What a pile of you-know-what.
Quote from: pbrooks3 on February 28, 2011, 01:47:43 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on February 28, 2011, 12:54:26 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
I am sure the low totem pole is being factored in here for Centre. 614 miles means airfare and I see this as unlikely.
NW, I only get 488 miles from Centre to Concordia using the NCAA's travel calculator.
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
I'm happy going to Marietta. Sure didn't like the idea of heading to Wisconsin.
Marietta is a fair draw for Centre.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
What's that about?? How does IWU get in and EMU doesn't??? That is nutty.
Some potential sectional final matchups, all look intriguing:
Whitworth at Wooster
Amherst at Williams
Augustana at UWSP
RMC at Middlebury
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2011, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2011, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
How did IWU get in over Eastern Mennonite?
The committee doesn't like losing in the semis over teams that get beat by 50 in the final.
Now, be fair - it was less than half that! And they beat Augie just 4 days before.
HF's post isn't about IWU, Ypsi.
I don't follow. He was responding to a post comparing EMU and IWU. EMU lost in the semi; IWU was blown-out in the final. I assumed he was just exaggerating the scale of the blow-out.
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
What's that about?? How does IWU get in and EMU doesn't??? That is nutty.
EMU fell below UMHB and UTDallas in the South Regional Rankings. Therefore EMU was not on the table.
No RUST?????? WTF?!?!
I'M MISSING A POOL C TEAM, HELP ME OUT. I HAVE 17 OF 18.
Atlantic Region
1 POOL C Ramapo 19-3 20-5 (NJAC): LOST to Montclair State 67-64 in semis
3 Kean 17-5 18-7 (NJAC): LOST to NJCU 75-61 in semis
4 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 18-5 20-5 (SKY): BEAT Mount Saint Vincent 68-60, BEAT Mount Saint Mary 78-75 OT in semis; LOST to SUNY-Purchase 81-66 in final
5 Mount Saint Mary 18-7 18-7 (SKY): LOST to St. Joseph's (L.I.) 78-75 OT in semis
East Region
1 POOL C Oswego State 22-3 22-3 (SUNYAC): BEAT Potsdam State 64-50 in quarterfinals, LOST Brockport State 74-70 in semis
2 POOL C Ithaca 19-5 20-5 (E8): LOST to St. John Fisher 88-75 in semis
4 Stevens 19-6 19-6 (E8): LOST to Hartwick 76-73 in semis
5 Hobart 19-5 19-6 (LL): LOST to Hamilton 62-60 in semis
Great Lakes Region
3 POOL C Penn State-Behrend 22-2 22-3 (AMCC): BEAT Medaille 58-51 in semis; LOST to La Roche 55-53 in final
5 Thiel 15-3 18-6 (PrAC): BEAT Waynesburg 73-63 in quarterfinals, BEAT Thomas More 78-65 in semis; LOST to Bethany 74-67 in final
6 Wabash 18-5 19-5 (NCAC): BEAT Kenyon 72-61 in quarterfinals, LOST to Wittenberg 65-63 in semis
POOL C **Wittenberg: LOST to Wooster in NCAC Final
Middle Atlantic Region
4 POOL C Gwynedd-Mercy 19-4 20-5 (CSAC): BEAT Keystone 85-65 in semis, LOST to Cabrini 92-70 in final
5 Keystone 21-5 21-5 (CSAC): LOST to Gwynedd-Mercy 85-65 in semis
6 Lebanon Valley 17-6 19-6 (MACC): BEAT Widener 58-56 in semis, LOST to Alvernia in final 57-55
8 DeSales 16-7 18-7 (MACF): BEAT Misericordia 78-69 in semis, LOST to Delaware Valley 79-58 in final
9 Wesley 15-5 16-9 (CAC): BEAT Salisbury 75-74 in semis; LOST to St. Mary's (Md.) 97-65 in final
Midwest Region
1 POOL C Concordia (Wis.) 20-2 22-3 (NATH): LOST to Edgewood 95-89 in semis
4 POOL C Hanover 18-6 18-6 (HCAC): BEAT Anderson 62-50 in semis; LOST to Manchester 79-69 in final
5 Anderson 15-7 17-8 (HCAC): BEAT Bluffton 75-60 in quarterfinals; LOST to Hanover 62-50 in semis
6 Milwaukee Engineering 18-6 19-6 (NATH): LOST to Aurora 72-67 in quarterfinals
POOL C**Illinois Wesleyan: LOST to Augustana in CCIW Final
**Edgewood: LOST to Benedictine in NATH Final
Northeast Region
1 POOL C Williams 21-1 23-1 (NESCAC): BEAT Trinity (Conn.) in semis 79-69; LOST Middlebury 63-54 in final
3 POOL C WPI 21-3 21-4 (NEWMAC): BEAT Coast Guard 62-51 in semis; LOST MIT in final
4 POOL C Becker 22-3 22-3 (NECC): BEAT Newbury 84-75 in semis; LOST Elms 79-65 in final
5 POOL C Amherst 21-2 22-2 (NESCAC): LOST to Middlebury 67-61 in semis
6 POOL C Western Connecticut State 20-4 21-4 (LEC): LOST Eastern Connecticut State 94-70 in semis
9 Eastern Connecticut State 15-7 17-8 (LEC): BEAT Western Connecticut State 94-70 in semis; LOST to Rhode Island College 62-49 in final
10 Brandeis 16-8 16-8 (UAA): LOST to NYU 70-54
11 Roger Williams 17-8 17-8 (CCC): LOST to Endicott 71-68 in CCC quarterfinals
South Region
1 POOL C Virginia Wesleyan 20-3 22-3 (ODAC): BEAT Washington and Lee 98-78 in quarterfinals; LOST to Randolph 80-76 in semis
3 POOL C Texas-Dallas 19-4 20-5 (ASC): BEAT Concordia (Texas) 85-70 in quarterfinals; LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor 77-69 in semis
4 Ferrum 18-4 21-4 (USAC): BEAT Christopher Newport 87-81 in semis; LOST to North Carolina Wesleyan 74-70 OT in final
5 Eastern Mennonite 15-4 21-4 (ODAC): BEAT Hampden-Sydney 76-75 in quarterfinals; LOST to Randolph-Macon 90-79 in semis
7 POOL C Mary Hardin-Baylor 19-6 19-6 (ASC): BEAT Texas-Tyler 73-68 in quarterfinals; BEAT Texas-Dallas 77-69 in semis; LOST McMurry 72-65 in ASC final
8 Emory 18-5 19-5 (UAA): BEAT Rochester 83-72
West Region
5 Carleton 18-5 18-7 (MIAC): LOST to Gustavus Adolphus 70-64 in semis
6 POOL C UW-River Falls 17-5 19-6 (WIAC): BEAT Platteville 69-60 in semis; LOST Stevens Point 79-56 in final
7 Whitman 13-5 18-7 (NWC): BEAT Lewis and Clark 79-76 in semis; LOST to Whitworth 74-50 in final
8 Lewis and Clark 12-5 18-7 (NWC): LOST to Whitman 79-76 in semis
9 UW-Whitewater 16-8 17-8 (WIAC): LOST to Superior 78-72 in quarterfinals
Tom, with all the brouhaha about IWU getting in, how could you not notice the missing C? ;)
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
One game between the ASC and the ODAC this year .... McMurry was soundly beaten by the ODAC's #4 team, Guilford.
The ODAC takes 3 teams to the Elite Eight last year but only gets 2 teams into the tournament. I'm not sure what the ASC did in the tournament last year, but they have 3 teams in the tournament.
Someone on the committee should have been looking hard at the fact that EMU had to play a Final Four team that brought its entire starting lineup 3 times this year! The Royals lost three times to Randolph-Macon (each time by 5-11 points), and that produced a total of 5 losses. Although they soundly beat Virginia Wesleyan the only time the two teams played, beat a 5-loss Ferrum College team, and defeated a Guilford team (twice) that was good enough to beat McMurry by 15 points ..... Someone on the NCAA committee was out to lunch when they put in 3 teams from the ASC and left EMU -- the ODAC's 3rd team -- sitting on the sidelines with a 22-5 record, with 3 of the losses to Randolph-Macon.
Just as I was about to hit the enter button..................IWU
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2011, 01:54:23 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2011, 01:32:19 PM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2011, 01:28:46 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:25:26 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 01:23:22 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:20:03 PM
Illinois Wesleyan gets in.
How did IWU get in over Eastern Mennonite?
The committee doesn't like losing in the semis over teams that get beat by 50 in the final.
Now, be fair - it was less than half that! And they beat Augie just 4 days before.
HF's post isn't about IWU, Ypsi.
I don't follow. He was responding to a post comparing EMU and IWU. EMU lost in the semi; IWU was blown-out in the final. I assumed he was just exaggerating the scale of the blow-out.
I made a mistake. VWC lost in the semis to the team that got blown out in the final. I was thinking that was EMU, which would explain their fall through the ranks.
DUH. I was just looking at my list! Thanks.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on February 28, 2011, 01:58:51 PM
I'M MISSING A POOL C TEAM, HELP ME OUT. I HAVE 17 OF 18.
Atlantic Region
1 POOL C Ramapo 19-3 20-5 (NJAC): LOST to Montclair State 67-64 in semis
3 Kean 17-5 18-7 (NJAC): LOST to NJCU 75-61 in semis
4 St. Joseph's (L.I.) 18-5 20-5 (SKY): BEAT Mount Saint Vincent 68-60, BEAT Mount Saint Mary 78-75 OT in semis; LOST to SUNY-Purchase 81-66 in final
5 Mount Saint Mary 18-7 18-7 (SKY): LOST to St. Joseph's (L.I.) 78-75 OT in semis
East Region
1 POOL C Oswego State 22-3 22-3 (SUNYAC): BEAT Potsdam State 64-50 in quarterfinals, LOST Brockport State 74-70 in semis
2 POOL C Ithaca 19-5 20-5 (E8): LOST to St. John Fisher 88-75 in semis
4 Stevens 19-6 19-6 (E8): LOST to Hartwick 76-73 in semis
5 Hobart 19-5 19-6 (LL): LOST to Hamilton 62-60 in semis
Great Lakes Region
3 POOL C Penn State-Behrend 22-2 22-3 (AMCC): BEAT Medaille 58-51 in semis; LOST to La Roche 55-53 in final
5 Thiel 15-3 18-6 (PrAC): BEAT Waynesburg 73-63 in quarterfinals, BEAT Thomas More 78-65 in semis; LOST to Bethany 74-67 in final
6 Wabash 18-5 19-5 (NCAC): BEAT Kenyon 72-61 in quarterfinals, LOST to Wittenberg 65-63 in semis
POOL C **Wittenberg: LOST to Wooster in NCAC Final
Middle Atlantic Region
4 POOL C Gwynedd-Mercy 19-4 20-5 (CSAC): BEAT Keystone 85-65 in semis, LOST to Cabrini 92-70 in final
5 Keystone 21-5 21-5 (CSAC): LOST to Gwynedd-Mercy 85-65 in semis
6 Lebanon Valley 17-6 19-6 (MACC): BEAT Widener 58-56 in semis, LOST to Alvernia in final 57-55
8 DeSales 16-7 18-7 (MACF): BEAT Misericordia 78-69 in semis, LOST to Delaware Valley 79-58 in final
9 Wesley 15-5 16-9 (CAC): BEAT Salisbury 75-74 in semis; LOST to St. Mary's (Md.) 97-65 in final
Midwest Region
1 POOL C Concordia (Wis.) 20-2 22-3 (NATH): LOST to Edgewood 95-89 in semis
4 POOL C Hanover 18-6 18-6 (HCAC): BEAT Anderson 62-50 in semis; LOST to Manchester 79-69 in final
5 Anderson 15-7 17-8 (HCAC): BEAT Bluffton 75-60 in quarterfinals; LOST to Hanover 62-50 in semis
6 Milwaukee Engineering 18-6 19-6 (NATH): LOST to Aurora 72-67 in quarterfinals
**Edgewood: LOST to Benedictine in NATH Final
Northeast Region
1 POOL C Williams 21-1 23-1 (NESCAC): BEAT Trinity (Conn.) in semis 79-69; LOST Middlebury 63-54 in final
3 POOL C WPI 21-3 21-4 (NEWMAC): BEAT Coast Guard 62-51 in semis; LOST MIT in final
4 POOL C Becker 22-3 22-3 (NECC): BEAT Newbury 84-75 in semis; LOST Elms 79-65 in final
5 POOL C Amherst 21-2 22-2 (NESCAC): LOST to Middlebury 67-61 in semis
6 POOL C Western Connecticut State 20-4 21-4 (LEC): LOST Eastern Connecticut State 94-70 in semis
9 Eastern Connecticut State 15-7 17-8 (LEC): BEAT Western Connecticut State 94-70 in semis; LOST to Rhode Island College 62-49 in final
10 Brandeis 16-8 16-8 (UAA): LOST to NYU 70-54
11 Roger Williams 17-8 17-8 (CCC): LOST to Endicott 71-68 in CCC quarterfinals
South Region
1 POOL C Virginia Wesleyan 20-3 22-3 (ODAC): BEAT Washington and Lee 98-78 in quarterfinals; LOST to Randolph 80-76 in semis
3 POOL C Texas-Dallas 19-4 20-5 (ASC): BEAT Concordia (Texas) 85-70 in quarterfinals; LOST to Mary Hardin-Baylor 77-69 in semis
4 Ferrum 18-4 21-4 (USAC): BEAT Christopher Newport 87-81 in semis; LOST to North Carolina Wesleyan 74-70 OT in final
5 Eastern Mennonite 15-4 21-4 (ODAC): BEAT Hampden-Sydney 76-75 in quarterfinals; LOST to Randolph-Macon 90-79 in semis
7 POOL C Mary Hardin-Baylor 19-6 19-6 (ASC): BEAT Texas-Tyler 73-68 in quarterfinals; BEAT Texas-Dallas 77-69 in semis; LOST McMurry 72-65 in ASC final
8 Emory 18-5 19-5 (UAA): BEAT Rochester 83-72
West Region
5 Carleton 18-5 18-7 (MIAC): LOST to Gustavus Adolphus 70-64 in semis
6 POOL C UW-River Falls 17-5 19-6 (WIAC): BEAT Platteville 69-60 in semis; LOST Stevens Point 79-56 in final
7 Whitman 13-5 18-7 (NWC): BEAT Lewis and Clark 79-76 in semis; LOST to Whitworth 74-50 in final
8 Lewis and Clark 12-5 18-7 (NWC): LOST to Whitman 79-76 in semis
9 UW-Whitewater 16-8 17-8 (WIAC): LOST to Superior 78-72 in quarterfinals
I hope this was a joke. If so, quite funny.
IWU
Late.
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
One game between the ASC and the ODAC this year .... McMurry was soundly beaten by the ODAC's #4 team, Guilford.
The ODAC takes 3 teams to the Elite Eight last year but only gets 2 teams into the tournament. I'm not sure what the ASC did in the tournament last year, but they have 3 teams in the tournament.
Someone on the committee should have been looking hard at the fact that EMU had to play a Final Four team that brought its entire starting lineup 3 times this year! The Royals lost three times to Randolph-Macon (each time by 5-11 points), and that produced a total of 5 losses. Although they soundly beat Virginia Wesleyan the only time the two teams played, beat a 5-loss Ferrum College team, and defeated a Guilford team (twice) that was good enough to beat McMurry by 15 points ..... Someone on the NCAA committee was out to lunch when they put in 3 teams from the ASC and left EMU -- the ODAC's 3rd team -- sitting on the sidelines with a 22-5 record, with 3 of the losses to Randolph-Macon.
Unfortunately, few if any of the reasons you cited are criteria for bids.
Quote from: PointSpecial on February 28, 2011, 02:07:16 PM
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
One game between the ASC and the ODAC this year .... McMurry was soundly beaten by the ODAC's #4 team, Guilford.
The ODAC takes 3 teams to the Elite Eight last year but only gets 2 teams into the tournament. I'm not sure what the ASC did in the tournament last year, but they have 3 teams in the tournament.
Someone on the committee should have been looking hard at the fact that EMU had to play a Final Four team that brought its entire starting lineup 3 times this year! The Royals lost three times to Randolph-Macon (each time by 5-11 points), and that produced a total of 5 losses. Although they soundly beat Virginia Wesleyan the only time the two teams played, beat a 5-loss Ferrum College team, and defeated a Guilford team (twice) that was good enough to beat McMurry by 15 points ..... Someone on the NCAA committee was out to lunch when they put in 3 teams from the ASC and left EMU -- the ODAC's 3rd team -- sitting on the sidelines with a 22-5 record, with 3 of the losses to Randolph-Macon.
Unfortunately, few if any of the reasons you cited are criteria for bids.
Is it now a certainty that EMU fell below MHB in the South region final regional rankings? Yep. :-[ OH looky there...What Ralph said. ;)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
What's that about?? How does IWU get in and EMU doesn't??? That is nutty.
EMU fell below UMHB and UTDallas in the South Regional Rankings. Therefore EMU was not on the table.
And you're telling me you believe EMU isnt worthy of being in ahead of some of the previously stated teams???
This whole regional ranking BS may be as bad as D1-A's BCS system :)
Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 01:41:35 PM
Ill Wesleyan gets in and EMU is left home.....come on now!
Region records this, region records that....no way EMU should be watching this tourney from home, 3 of their 5 losses come at the hands of a RMC team that has all the pieces to win a National Championship( Not to mention they returned 7 Sr's from last season's Final Four team)!!!
Wow, Unreal!!!
Selection committee blew that one... >:(
Not who you lost to but who you beat. Penn State-Beaver, Lancaster Bible ...
Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
What's that about?? How does IWU get in and EMU doesn't??? That is nutty.
EMU fell below UMHB and UTDallas in the South Regional Rankings. Therefore EMU was not on the table.
And you're telling me you believe EMU isnt worthy of being in ahead of some of the previously stated teams???
This whole regional ranking BS may be as bad as D1-A's BCS system :)
Well, the system hasn't changed in that regard in six years.
Wow, IWU gets in? AND gets to play against a team that isn't hosting in the opening round (UW-River Falls).
Seeing that travel isn't different either way, surprised that they didn't send IWU to Concordia to play Concordia and send Luther to UST to play UW River Falls.
Luther ranks higher than IWU on my board, and was placed lower
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 02:01:54 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
One game between the ASC and the ODAC this year .... McMurry was soundly beaten by the ODAC's #4 team, Guilford.The ODAC takes 3 teams to the Elite Eight last year but only gets 2 teams into the tournament. I'm not sure what the ASC did in the tournament last year, but they have 3 teams in the tournament.
Someone on the committee should have been looking hard at the fact that EMU had to play a Final Four team that brought its entire starting lineup 3 times this year! The Royals lost three times to Randolph-Macon (each time by 5-11 points), and that produced a total of 5 losses. Although they soundly beat Virginia Wesleyan the only time the two teams played, beat a 5-loss Ferrum College team, and defeated a Guilford team (twice) that was good enough to beat McMurry by 15 points ..... Someone on the NCAA committee was out to lunch when they put in 3 teams from the ASC and left EMU -- the ODAC's 3rd team -- sitting on the sidelines with a 22-5 record, with 3 of the losses to Randolph-Macon.
A point of information,
The McMurry team lost to Guilford in Coach Matt Garnett's second game as head coach! By the time that the team, with all of the new players, figured out who was who, they had begun to play up to their potential. They lost to D1 SMU by 3 at home in late December.
One starter from the SMU loss quit over Christmas and but this is the team that is playing in the NCAA's. Between Guilford and McMurry, McMurry picks up the "ASC West Player of the Year" Derrick Sumpter.
SMU Box Score, 67-70 loss (http://www.mcmurrysports.com/custompages/mbball/10-11/mcmsmu.htm)
McMurry was never regionally ranked. They are the "upset" winners in the ASC. UMHB and UTD were regionally ranked mulitple times. They moved over EMU in the minds of the Regional Committee over the last weekend.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2011, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
What's that about?? How does IWU get in and EMU doesn't??? That is nutty.
EMU fell below UMHB and UTDallas in the South Regional Rankings. Therefore EMU was not on the table.
And you're telling me you believe EMU isnt worthy of being in ahead of some of the previously stated teams???
This whole regional ranking BS may be as bad as D1-A's BCS system :)
Well, the system hasn't changed in that regard in six years.
I understand that...just think it's flawed but what system isnt....I guess i'm just an unhappy fan since my team didnt make it and I for one know they're better than half the field that's still standing.
Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
What's that about?? How does IWU get in and EMU doesn't??? That is nutty.
EMU fell below UMHB and UTDallas in the South Regional Rankings. Therefore EMU was not on the table.
And you're telling me you believe EMU isnt worthy of being in ahead of some of the previously stated teams???
This whole regional ranking BS may be as bad as D1-A's BCS system :)
Region W-L Reg OWL Reg OOWL Reg SOS W-L vs Reg Ranked
East. Mennonite 16-5-0( 0.762) 0.484 0.529 0.499 2-3-0 ( 0.400)
Mary Hardin-Bay 21-7-0( 0.750) 0.518 0.488 0.508 3-1-0 ( 0.750)
McMurry 20-6-0( 0.769) 0.518 0.509 0.515 3-2-0 ( 0.600)
Texas-Dallas 20-5-0( 0.800) 0.483 0.489 0.485 2-2-0 ( 0.500)
http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankings&sportCode=MBB®ion=25&division=3
(http://web1.ncaa.org/champsel_new/exec/pdf/staticpdfrank?doWhat=publicrankings&sportCode=MBB®ion=25&division=3)
overall, looking at the entire bracket, it looks like the NCAA used the pod formula in determining first round matchups, then said, for the sake of competition, lets move some pods around. The cabrini pod doesnt fit, but then again no pod would really fit there. Earlier today, i did a 10 minute cheat sheet breaking up four key regions:
WEST
MIDWEST/SOUTH
MidAtlantic/NJ/NY
Northeast
The NCAA, for the most part, stayed true on the West. There are 5 west pods (whitworth and the entire McMurray bracket). There are two distinct MWS pods (marietta and wooster), and three midatlantic pods (cabrini, stmarys and ramapo). the last bracket though, which of course is the one my team is in, is all over the map. The oswego pod is a travel nightmare. Scranton has a hike, then theres my PA v Southern Methodist clustermess.
Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 02:20:15 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2011, 02:12:23 PM
Quote from: bossman on February 28, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 01:55:05 PM
Quote from: algernon on February 28, 2011, 01:50:51 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:35:42 PM
Quote from: KnightSlappy on February 28, 2011, 01:31:58 PM
Did the ASC really just get three teams in ???
like OMG, totally!!
What's that about?? How does IWU get in and EMU doesn't??? That is nutty.
EMU fell below UMHB and UTDallas in the South Regional Rankings. Therefore EMU was not on the table.
And you're telling me you believe EMU isnt worthy of being in ahead of some of the previously stated teams???
This whole regional ranking BS may be as bad as D1-A's BCS system :)
Well, the system hasn't changed in that regard in six years.
I understand that...just think it's flawed but what system isnt....I guess i'm just an unhappy fan since my team didnt make it and I for one know they're better than half the field that's still standing.
The next top 25 poll will likely prove you correct. There are plenty of EMU fans throughout the country. Unfortunately they didn't get the job done "IN REGION" as frodotwo displays. :'(
I think the four brackets are as balanced as I can recall. Whitworth and Wooster in one, Williams, Amherst, VWU in a second, Stevens Point, Augustana, St. Thomas in a third, and Middlebury and Randolph-Macon in the fourth ... sets up at least the possibility of an Elite Eight with all top-ten caliber teams, which is pretty unusual. It seems like most years there is a top-notch team with an easy path to the Final Four, but not this year, although I do like the chances of Amherst (despite playing on the road), Whitworth, Augustana, and Midd to make the Elite Eight.
I agree that EMU got the shaft. An elite eight team, with everyone back, who puts up a fairly guady record in a top-four conference, without any really bad losses, they should be in for sure.
Who decides the time of the games on Friday, who plays at which time, and when do they publicize that?
Pat, when do you expect to have the sit down with Obama in which he fills out his bracket? I'm really looking forward to that.
I think that the rankings in the South do not do the justice to how close the South teams were.
Unranked in Regional Rankings #4, McMurry jumped up to #3 with 3 wins this week, including only 1 win over a regionally ranked team.
Look at the rankings as a "peloton" instead of an ordinal system, and you can see how tightly this group of teams were bunched!
Quote from: nescac1 on February 28, 2011, 02:40:42 PM
I think the four brackets are as balanced as I can recall. Whitworth and Wooster in one, Williams, Amherst, VWU in a second, Stevens Point, Augustana, St. Thomas in a third, and Middlebury and Randolph-Macon in the fourth ... sets up at least the possibility of an Elite Eight with all top-ten caliber teams, which is pretty unusual. It seems like most years there is a top-notch team with an easy path to the Final Four, but not this year, although I do like the chances of Amherst (despite playing on the road), Whitworth, Augustana, and Midd to make the Elite Eight.
I agree that EMU got the shaft. An elite eight team, with everyone back, who puts up a fairly guady record in a top-four conference, without any really bad losses, they should be in for sure.
I agree about EMU, but (despite the howls of anguish all around the boards) note that every single thing you mentioned (excepts arguably the gaudy record) applies equally to IWU. ;)
BTW, I also agree that this is the best balance of brackets I can ever recall.
So, now that they are out...am I reading the bracket right in that the commitee is rewarding Whitworth with what on paper looks like a slightly easier road to Salem rather than let them host round 3/4? Makes $$$ sense, but still does not seem fair...but I am biased.
Is there ANY way depending on who loses in rounds 1/2 that they could host???
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 02:54:47 PM
I think that the rankings in the South do not do the justice to how close the South teams were.
Unranked in Regional Rankings #4, McMurry jumped up to #3 with 3 wins this week, including only 1 win over a regionally ranked team.
Look at the rankings as a "peloton" instead of an ordinal system, and you can see how tightly this group of teams were bunched!
If that is the case, EMU better hurry up and request the NCAA checks the B sample.
The Cabrini pod is (sadly) the only one close enough to me to try and get to this weekend. If things turn out the way I expect, this will be my only shot to get to tournament games this year.
Do we know when times and ticket info is out or where to find it?
Quote from: 89Pirate on February 28, 2011, 02:57:29 PM
So, now that they are out...am I reading the bracket right in that the commitee is rewarding Whitworth with what on paper looks like a slightly easier road to Salem rather than let them host round 3/4? Makes $$$ sense, but still does not seem fair...but I am biased.
Is there ANY way depending on who loses in rounds 1/2 that they could host???
It depends on how mercenary you think the NCAA is. I'm pretty sure that everyone in the Wooster pod is within 500 miles of everyone in the Marietta pod, so there will be a site available with two or fewer flights. Would the NCAA put a sectional at Centre or Bethany, just to avoid flying one team to Spokane? Sources hazy, ask again later.
As I pointed out on another board, every team in the Marietta, Wooster, and Cabrini pods is within 500 miles of Wooster. So if Wooster advances to the third round, they seem a good bet to host the sectional.
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
I also don't think that Randy Mac needs nor deserves a 1st round bye.
Agreed and agreed.
Well ScotsFan, methinks our paths shall cross. Will this be the last of our agreeing? ;)
Glad to see RMC not only NOT get a bye pod but a trip to St. Mary's. Looks like the ODAC needs Guilford around to get more respect. Just saying....
Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2011, 02:48:03 PM
Who decides the time of the games on Friday, who plays at which time, and when do they publicize that?
Home team makes final decision, although NCAA recommends game times as 6 and 8 on Friday and 7 on Saturday. The home team would have to have some really good reason to move them around. The home team has to play the second game of the Friday doubleheader.
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 02:51:17 PM
Pat, when do you expect to have the sit down with Obama in which he fills out his bracket? I'm really looking forward to that.
If Oxy isn't in, does that mean we have to do the women's bracket?
The NCAA makes the final decision for men's basketball, Bill. The school can request a change but the NCAA must approve it. More or less what you're saying but the NCAA makes the final call.
Quote from: Just Bill on February 28, 2011, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2011, 02:48:03 PM
Who decides the time of the games on Friday, who plays at which time, and when do they publicize that?
Home team makes final decision, although NCAA recommends game times as 6 and 8 on Friday and 7 on Saturday. The home team would have to have some really good reason to move them around. The home team has to play the second game of the Friday doubleheader.
Is it mandatory for home teams to play second or is it just something the NCAA recommends??
Quote from: 7express on February 28, 2011, 04:35:53 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on February 28, 2011, 03:54:56 PM
Quote from: ronk on February 28, 2011, 02:48:03 PM
Who decides the time of the games on Friday, who plays at which time, and when do they publicize that?
Home team makes final decision, although NCAA recommends game times as 6 and 8 on Friday and 7 on Saturday. The home team would have to have some really good reason to move them around. The home team has to play the second game of the Friday doubleheader.
Is it mandatory for home teams to play second or is it just something the NCAA recommends??
What do you think creates a bigger gate? THAT ONE!!
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 01:09:04 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on February 28, 2011, 01:06:49 PM
I wonder if they spent more time writing the script than they did actually planning the bracket?
:D +1
The script is left over from the previous year's broadcast. They just plug in the new names and the "canned" SID promos for a few teams who sent them, and were selected. :)
It sounds the same every year.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on February 28, 2011, 03:59:24 PM
Quote from: ziggy on February 28, 2011, 02:51:17 PM
Pat, when do you expect to have the sit down with Obama in which he fills out his bracket? I'm really looking forward to that.
If Oxy isn't in, does that mean we have to do the women's bracket?
The NCAA makes the final decision for men's basketball, Bill. The school can request a change but the NCAA must approve it. More or less what you're saying but the NCAA makes the final call.
Noted. I haven't looked at the handbook in a while, but I'm pretty certain the host school is required to play the second game.
I see that SPoint is not hosting. There was a piece that said something about the "Stevens Point" rule. Does anyone know what that means? I see that the women's SPoint team also won the conference and they are hosting. Does D3 prohibit 2 teams from the same school hosting? Doesn't it seem odd that Point, ranked # 4 in the nation would not host??
Yes, both teams cannot host the opening weekend, and this year the women's side has first priority. Next year, it will be the men, etc.
Yes, the Handbook deals with that problem, because there are about a dozen schools in the country who have programs that could host for men and women.
D-III decided to take the issue and deal with it. One tourney, one Athletic department to focus the experience on the four teams who are competing in that bracket.
For 2011, the women host in the first weekend; the men can host in the second.
In 2012, the men will host in the first weekend; the women in the second. :)
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/champ_handbooks/basketball/2011/11_3_mbasketball.pdf
If you saw it called the "Stevens Point Rule" that references 2004. Both the UWSP men and women were selected to host a sectional. With no rule against it, the two NCAA committee chairs discussed the feasibility of allowing Point to host them both simultaneously. Point was willing to do both, but the chairs ultimately decided that it was not feasible to do both equitably.
At that point, the chairs asked UWSP to choose which one they would rather host. Then-AD Frank O'Brien wisely had no interest in picking one team over the other and he refused to name a preference, insisting UWSP was capable of hosting both.
Ultimately the decision rested on the two committee chairs. They decided that since the women were seeded higher than the men, they would get the right to host. The men were shipped to Puget Sound. (Lawrence would have been the preferred geographical choice, but their gym does not meet sectional standards.)
Both teams won their sectionals with the men winning their first national title and the women placing fourth and missing out on two titles in three years. The next year the NCAA put in the current rotation system.
Ranked teams as of last weeks rankings-games through Feb. 20
Whitworth regional
Whitworth #2
Chapman #15
Marietta regional
Marietta #13
Wooster regional
Wooster #5
Cabrini regional
None
Willliams regional
Williams #1
Becker #23
VWU regional
VWU #10
Franklin and Marshall #19
WPI regional
WPI #12
Amherst #7
Oswego regional
Oswego #24
McMurry regional
None
Augustana regional
Augustana #6
Concordia regional
Concordia #21
UWSP #4
St. Norbert #20
St. Thomas regional
St. Thomas #9
UWRF #22
Ramapo regional
Ramapo #25
St. Mary's regional
St. Mary's #18
Randolph-Macon #8
Ithaca regional
Rochester #14
Western Connecticut regional
Western Connecticut #17
Middlebury #3
Missed tourney
#11 EMU
#16 Wabash
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on February 28, 2011, 02:55:35 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on February 28, 2011, 02:40:42 PM
I think the four brackets are as balanced as I can recall. Whitworth and Wooster in one, Williams, Amherst, VWU in a second, Stevens Point, Augustana, St. Thomas in a third, and Middlebury and Randolph-Macon in the fourth ... sets up at least the possibility of an Elite Eight with all top-ten caliber teams, which is pretty unusual. It seems like most years there is a top-notch team with an easy path to the Final Four, but not this year, although I do like the chances of Amherst (despite playing on the road), Whitworth, Augustana, and Midd to make the Elite Eight.
I agree that EMU got the shaft. An elite eight team, with everyone back, who puts up a fairly guady record in a top-four conference, without any really bad losses, they should be in for sure.
I agree about EMU, but (despite the howls of anguish all around the boards) note that every single thing you mentioned (excepts arguably the gaudy record) applies equally to IWU. ;)
BTW, I also agree that this is the best balance of brackets I can ever recall.
If you were playing in the ODAC you would cry foul! Note that 4 teams got in from the ODAC last year and all 4 made it to the sweet 16. VA Wesleyan-16; EMU-8; Guilford and RMC -final 4. The ODAC deserved at least 3 bids. With 7 seniors back from the final 4 team, why is it a surprise that RMC beat EMU 3 times. EMU had all 5 seniors back from the elite 8 and despite a slow start they were on a nine-game winning streak when RMC ended it in the tournament semis. Talk about Hot! Also note that EMU beat VA Wesleyan the one time they played them at home, and they repaid Randolph and W&L with decisive victories at home to make up for their earlier losses. Someone needs to add the national rankings to the mix so teams like #11 EMU and #16 Wabash aren't left at home.
Now No. 15 and No. 19.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on February 28, 2011, 08:00:51 AM
I think that you have 2 geographic byes...
Whitworth/Chapman/Redlands
and TBA/McMurry/UT-Dallas
That was a pretty good thought Ralph, Plus K.
Just realized that if Middlebury and Randolph-Macon both make the sweet sixteen, neither one can host. Interesting.
Will there be a thread again for folks to give capsule summaries of the various tourney teams? I thought that was a good one last year.
Hoops Fan: Why is that?
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 01, 2011, 10:16:14 AM
Hoops Fan: Why is that?
Distance. More than 500 miles between them. Likely the Ithaca-Rochester winner will host.
Um... if Ramapo came out.. they could host this... also, one team would fly to either location... so Middlebury and RMC are still in the mix for hosting.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2011, 11:39:39 AM
Um... if Ramapo came out.. they could host this... also, one team would fly to either location... so Middlebury and RMC are still in the mix for hosting.
Wait, maybe I'm missing something. Would the NCAA really pay for a flight just to give either RMC or Middlebury the hosting gig? I was just assuming one of the teams in the middle would host. Rochester, Ramapo, Ithaca, or even Gwynedd Mercy could host without a flight.
I was just pointing out that the two best teams in the bracket (Midd and RMC) would not be hosts if both came out. The only way one of them could host is if the other lost in the first two rounds (or the NCAA got generous with the plane tickets).
If they have budgeted their allotted number of flights out and can fly just one team to a location... then yes, it is possible for Middlebury or RMC to host (though, Middlebury would have the edge due first and foremost their #1 regional ranking).
If the NCAA has to use more flights then they planned or even "worse case" scenarioed... then someone in the middle would get the chance.
But don't be surprised if a flight is put into this mix depending on who comes out!
hoops fan, i was looking at this yesterday. you could end up with the same scenario between VA Wesleyan and both Amherst and Williams (Norfolk to Amherst or williamstown over 500 miles). However, barring an upset there would be no place VAW could go to under 500 miles, so that would have to be a flight (making ur RMC/Middlebury meet in the middle scenario even more likely).
Lusty - again - we don' t know how many flights they have been "given" by the NCAA.
If it is five and your scenario and this scenario are there... along with the fact Whitworth and McMurry have to fly.. that is just four... plus Chapman this weekend... there is your five.
If they have more flights to use... then we are fine... if they have less... there are problems.
However, the committee I know looked at worse case scenarios... so they have a plan already to go with the top seeds... we will see how it plays out.
I voted for the Salve Western game in the poll only because I'll be there, but Texas-Dallas and MHB will probably be the best seeing their conference opponents.
Dmac/Pat,
Please bring up with any NCAA chairmen on your hoopsville show Thursday:
Subject: incorrect NCAA inregion records
This year the NCAA had incorrect inregion records for both Scranton men(missing a big win) and women(missing a win and 2 losses) for the first regional rankings. Arguably, the men weren't ranked but should have been and the women were ranked but should not have been. The major point is that not only Scranton was affected, but also the teams around them in the ranking and any team that played Scranton(because of the inregion ranked opponent criteria) and carried thru subsequent rankings because of the once ranked, always ranked concept.
As long as the schools haven't changed conferences and gained or lost inregion games for that reason, there's seemingly no reason for the NCAA to have incorrect inregion records- the schools haven't moved, the distance between them is known before the season starts.
Recommendation: as part of their seasonal review, the NCAA should release their inregion records a week before they compute the first regional ranking next year so that we have a way to vet and change anything that needs to be corrected before that computation. I think they owe that to the players, coaches, and fans.
I wanted to get this idea out there after we had discussed selection Monday but before everyone left the board for the offseason as their teams got eliminated.
Separately, when r the women going to release their final ranking and data?
I asked the women's liaison that this afternoon -- she didn't realize it hadn't already been released and was going to look into it.
Dave raised your other questions in his first Hoopsville conversation with Dave Martin, so I'm not sure we're going to reiterate that question. However, your suggestion that they release the data a week early is a good one. They might be amenable to that.
Agreed there is no reason for it to be wrong but in the end, it's still human beings who input the games into the NCAA's system. When you have 400 people contributing data, some of it is going to be incorrect.
Since this board has NCAA smacktalk going. Here is my rant from Poll C board.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2011, 08:30:28 AM
Quote from: smedindy on March 02, 2011, 12:51:38 AM
Quote from: sac on March 01, 2011, 01:33:12 AM
I think some people are forgetting that D3 Championships are about access not necessarily quality.
Oh, I'm all for access for the Pool A's. If you have a legit conference, you deserve a bid.
The "C"'s though should be quality.
THE NCAA's CORE PURPOSE IS TO govern competition in a fair, safe, equitable and sportsmanlike manner, and to integrate intercollegiate athletics into higher education so that the educational experience of the student-athlete is paramount.
Can we somehow hold them to the mission statement in funding the D3 tournaments? Fairness and equity are not existent in our tourney until the Final Four. Selecting a team(s) to play 4 home games is competitively UNFAIR and UNEQUITABLE. The NCAA can and should make an effort to expand ITS OWN CORE PURPOSE from 4 games to at least the final 16 games of the D3 tournaments under new President Mark Emmert.
He states, "Behaviors that undermine the collegiate model wherever they occur are a threat to those basic values, and we can't tolerate them. If we believe in those values, we need to be ready to defend them, and if we don't, we have to be ready to accept the criticism that comes from not doing so. During the next few months, I will work with NCAA presidential groups in all three divisions to propose rules that close glaring loopholes and begin to align behaviors with our values."
Neutral site round 3 and 4 games can be planned and located to easily allow four (4) team fan bases to travel instead of the current UNFAIR and UNEQUITABLE three (3) fan bases. Using the current hosting process, these sites could be announced at the release of the bracket. This would allow for travel planning to begin much earlier for potential teams, students, and fan bases. No one can efffectively argue that playing at home has no advantage. Busing and lodging 4 more teams (16 vs 12) is not a significant increase in expense and the potential for a more lucrative gate and larger venues could offset the 25% added expense.
Even though our regional perspectives are different(West coast over 500 miles for u and Mid-Atlantic under 200 miles for me), I agree with your sentiments about the minimal consideration of fairness given for schools, fan bases, neutral sites, number of regional rankings based on number of schools in region(women only NE region), etc.
ronk - in my opinion... something is flat out wrong with the way the women rank their teams and the answers I have gotten off the air and ON the air have not been satisfactory. I hope it is seriously examined in the off-season.
Also... to your point about in-region games being wrong... this is usually the responsibility first and foremost of the regional member from that conference. I know who that is for the men... so I don't know what happened... though, it clearly was fixed down the road.
It didn't affect the men's rankings a bit... since Scranton was ranked in the final ranking so that immediately trickles down to other teams and changes their resume immediately to the committee. The women's... that's another point that could have caused some problems.
I like your idea of pre-posting data. I would almost say they have to start posting that data sooner... but one week isn't bad - but good luck! :)
nw: i like your idealistic attitude. but lets be honest, would it really make that much of a difference to have neutral site regional games? Who would host these games? You would still have these games most likely on campus sites in small gyms, and if thats the case the committee will always regionalize the brackets to make sure the top team gets to play close to home if they make the next round. In theory your idea is fair, but in practice you'll still get the same problem of a team with a distinct home court/travel advantage.
Then you run into the "dead atmosphere" problem which you get when a home team loses the first game under the current format. I'd imagine the players would like playing in a viper's nest than they would a neutral side "dead" game. Under your system, we might have even more dead games if travel is too far.
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 02, 2011, 10:42:08 AM
nw: i like your idealistic attitude. but lets be honest, would it really make that much of a difference to have neutral site regional games? Who would host these games? You would still have these games most likely on campus sites in small gyms, and if thats the case the committee will always regionalize the brackets to make sure the top team gets to play close to home if they make the next round. In theory your idea is fair, but in practice you'll still get the same problem of a team with a distinct home court/travel advantage.
Then you run into the "dead atmosphere" problem which you get when a home team loses the first game under the current format. I'd imagine the players would like playing in a viper's nest than they would a neutral side "dead" game. Under your system, we might have even more dead games if travel is too far.
I think the dead atmosphere situation is actually lowered in neutral game sites. Ideally the neutral site would be fairly central to the 4 teams (geo orphans aside) and more fans would travel to an elite 8 site from the remaining two schools. The current dead atmosphere when the host school loses round 1 ripples out to the staff and site. It is a bad situation. I think current system has greater downside.
Games would probably be back to back days and some losing fan base might actually stick around because of convenience.
You don't want neutral site D-III sectionals. Unless Calvin, Hope, UWSP or IWU is in it, no one will be there. I'll take the risk of the home team losing the first night and having a weak crowd on the second night, rather than having three weak crowds.
If you wanted to make a rule that prohibits hosting both the regional and sectional rounds, I'd be more on board with that.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 03:23:41 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on February 28, 2011, 12:48:59 PM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on February 28, 2011, 12:45:47 PM
I also don't think that Randy Mac needs nor deserves a 1st round bye.
Agreed and agreed.
Well ScotsFan, methinks our paths shall cross. Will this be the last of our agreeing? ;)
Glad to see RMC not only NOT get a bye pod but a trip to St. Mary's. Looks like the ODAC needs Guilford around to get more respect. Just saying....
Yep. Looks that way. I just hope our paths cross in Wooster and not in Spokane! ;D ;) Although, if it is Spokane, there's not really anything I can argue about as Whitworth is clearly deserving of hosting. If you read my profile of Wooster on the team profiles page you might understand why I am hoping Wooster gets to host. ;) :)
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 01, 2011, 12:19:19 PM
Lusty - again - we don' t know how many flights they have been "given" by the NCAA.
If it is five and your scenario and this scenario are there... along with the fact Whitworth and McMurry have to fly.. that is just four... plus Chapman this weekend... there is your five.
If they have more flights to use... then we are fine... if they have less... there are problems.
However, the committee I know looked at worse case scenarios... so they have a plan already to go with the top seeds... we will see how it plays out.
I think these scenarios Dave laid out may just decrease the probability of Whitworth getting to host the round of sixteen games even further. If there are flights available, I don't see the NCAA using up three flights for one sectional when there is a possiblity of flights being needed for other sectionals.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 02, 2011, 11:05:41 AM
You don't want neutral site D-III sectionals. Unless Calvin, Hope, UWSP or IWU is in it, no one will be there. I'll take the risk of the home team losing the first night and having a weak crowd on the second night, rather than having three weak crowds.
If you wanted to make a rule that prohibits hosting both the regional and sectional rounds, I'd be more on board with that.
Hey now, Wooster fans travel pretty darn good too! ;)
Quote from: Just Bill on March 02, 2011, 11:05:41 AM
You don't want neutral site D-III sectionals. Unless Calvin, Hope, UWSP or IWU is in it, no one will be there. I'll take the risk of the home team losing the first night and having a weak crowd on the second night, rather than having three weak crowds.
If you wanted to make a rule that prohibits hosting both the regional and sectional rounds, I'd be more on board with that.
I am so accustomed to fan base support (see Whitworth avg attendance) I am probably naive to the travel fan base suppport outside of NWC.
My biggest thought, as you correctly listed, is 4 home game path seems like an "annointing". Make a rule D3 presidents.
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 02, 2011, 10:42:08 AM
nw: i like your idealistic attitude. but lets be honest, would it really make that much of a difference to have neutral site regional games? Who would host these games? You would still have these games most likely on campus sites in small gyms, and if thats the case the committee will always regionalize the brackets to make sure the top team gets to play close to home if they make the next round. In theory your idea is fair, but in practice you'll still get the same problem of a team with a distinct home court/travel advantage.
Then you run into the "dead atmosphere" problem which you get when a home team loses the first game under the current format. I'd imagine the players would like playing in a viper's nest than they would a neutral side "dead" game. Under your system, we might have even more dead games if travel is too far.
I remember listening over the Lawrence network (to a very good play-by-play announcer whose name I cannot find today) to the UWSP-Lawrence Elite 8 game in 2004 at UPS. That game was played before about three hundred (300) fans in the L&C gym, some of whom were disguised as empty seats. Where was the
D3 fan support? IMHO, that game was as tough as 2004 National Champion UWSP faced. (I will defer to Point Special.)
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2011, 11:44:10 AM
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 02, 2011, 10:42:08 AM
nw: i like your idealistic attitude. but lets be honest, would it really make that much of a difference to have neutral site regional games? Who would host these games? You would still have these games most likely on campus sites in small gyms, and if thats the case the committee will always regionalize the brackets to make sure the top team gets to play close to home if they make the next round. In theory your idea is fair, but in practice you'll still get the same problem of a team with a distinct home court/travel advantage.
Then you run into the "dead atmosphere" problem which you get when a home team loses the first game under the current format. I'd imagine the players would like playing in a viper's nest than they would a neutral side "dead" game. Under your system, we might have even more dead games if travel is too far.
I remember listening over the Lawrence network (to a very good play-by-play announcer whose name I cannot find today) to the UWSP-Lawrence Elite 8 game in 2004 at UPS. That game was played before about three hundred (300) fans in the L&C gym, some of whom were disguised as empty seats. Where was the D3 fan support? IMHO, that game was as tough as 2004 National Champion UWSP faced. (I will defer to Point Special.)
Obviously "travel" was to far. A FAR WEST neutral host site will never nor should never be an option. I see your point in the dead game atmosphere. Never good. At UPS? L&C gym? :-\ Something out of whack there...
Actually, that guy was Andy York, who lives here in the Twin Cities area. He and I do a few games together each year, including the MIAC title game a few days ago.
On the one hand, yes, playing at home in the round of 16 may be an advantage, but I don't know if it outweighs the possibility of a no-show crowd.
If your team is playing a game that starts at 8 or so, you're asking an extra fan base to make what could be a long trip home late at night, or staying over
And what of the students? Maybe this is just an IC thing, but how many of them are going to give up a Friday night or Saturday night to travel to a basketball game? Seems like a small number to me.
And not to get political here, but gas being $3.60 a gallon doesn't exactly make traveling an appealing process for some, especially students. Hopping out of your dorm room and walking to the gym is one thing. Are you going to maybe spend 20-30 bucks on gas and a ticket to watch your team play? Seems unlikely, but that's just me.
The cynical part of me also says that if a team considers it that much of a disadvantage to playing on the road, well, maybe that team isn't good enough anyway. Seems to me that most good teams are capable of winning on the road. And respectfully, we're not talking about playing at Cameron Indoor or the Breslin Center. I don't think anyone would say playing at home isn't an advantage, but how much of one is there at the D-III level? I don't know if anyone has home/road numbers for all of D-III, but I doubt it's that big of a difference
In looking at the four teams lumped in with IC, Ithaca is 7-4 at home, 13-2 on the road or in neutral environments. MIT is 9-4 at home, 10-4 in road/neutral environments. Rochester was 12-2 at home, 8-3 in road/neutral. Elms was 9-1/11-6. Overall, seems like only one team of the four was significantly better at home, and one, paradoxically, was worse.
Maybe this is just these four teams, but I just don't think it's this significant disadvantage. Of course, this could be because I've watched IC lose so many home playoff games in recent years I've lost count, but there it is.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2011, 11:29:06 AM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 02, 2011, 11:05:41 AM
You don't want neutral site D-III sectionals. Unless Calvin, Hope, UWSP or IWU is in it, no one will be there. I'll take the risk of the home team losing the first night and having a weak crowd on the second night, rather than having three weak crowds.
If you wanted to make a rule that prohibits hosting both the regional and sectional rounds, I'd be more on board with that.
I am so accustomed to fan base support (see Whitworth avg attendance) I am probably naive to the travel fan base suppport outside of NWC.
My biggest thought, as you correctly listed, is 4 home game path seems like an "annointing". Make a rule D3 presidents.
Then you'd really dislike the women's tournament. Illinois Wesleyan has the potential to play all six NCAA Tournament games at home. They had the same potential last year, but lost in the Sectionals.
It may feel like "annointing" a champion, but since the women's championship went to pre-determined Final Four sites, not one host school has ever made the Final Four, much less won it. That list would include Western Connecticut, Rose-Hulman, Virginia Wesleyan, Springfield, Hope and Illinois Wesleyan.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 02, 2011, 11:29:06 AM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 02, 2011, 11:05:41 AM
You don't want neutral site D-III sectionals. Unless Calvin, Hope, UWSP or IWU is in it, no one will be there. I'll take the risk of the home team losing the first night and having a weak crowd on the second night, rather than having three weak crowds.
If you wanted to make a rule that prohibits hosting both the regional and sectional rounds, I'd be more on board with that.
I am so accustomed to fan base support (see Whitworth avg attendance) I am probably naive to the travel fan base suppport outside of NWC.
My biggest thought, as you correctly listed, is 4 home game path seems like an "annointing". Make a rule D3 presidents.
What then would you propose? If you are a #1 seed, I think you have earned the right to host. So, with the proposal of not allowing hosting of regional and sectional rounds, say the top seeds all host in the regional rounds. Then you are going to award lesser seeds hosting privileges for the sectional rounds because the higher seeds have already hosted? And, on the flip side, if you are a #1 seed, are you going to forego hosting the first weekend and take the chance that you can get it done on the road and then hope that you are awarded hosting of the sectional should you make it through the regional?
I just don't see how this rule would work without using neutral sites and I think using neutral sites would be completely unfair to the athltetes to work so hard all year only to be rewarded with playing in relatively empty neutral arenas.
IMHO, if you are seeded higher, you host. I don't care if you host all the games, you have earned it. I don't believe in not keeping score and handing ribbons out to everyone either.
You want to host...win your games. It is real life.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 02, 2011, 11:44:10 AM
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 02, 2011, 10:42:08 AM
nw: i like your idealistic attitude. but lets be honest, would it really make that much of a difference to have neutral site regional games? Who would host these games? You would still have these games most likely on campus sites in small gyms, and if thats the case the committee will always regionalize the brackets to make sure the top team gets to play close to home if they make the next round. In theory your idea is fair, but in practice you'll still get the same problem of a team with a distinct home court/travel advantage.
Then you run into the "dead atmosphere" problem which you get when a home team loses the first game under the current format. I'd imagine the players would like playing in a viper's nest than they would a neutral side "dead" game. Under your system, we might have even more dead games if travel is too far.
I remember listening over the Lawrence network (to a very good play-by-play announcer whose name I cannot find today) to the UWSP-Lawrence Elite 8 game in 2004 at UPS. That game was played before about three hundred (300) 250 fans in the L&C UPS gym, some of whom were disguised as empty seats. Where was the D3 fan support? IMHO, that game was as tough as 2004 National Champion UWSP faced. (I will defer to Point Special.)
We had three tough games and three not-so-tough... the Gustavus Adolphus game in St. Peter was pretty much insane. I mean, if you want to talk about the antithesis of an empty gym, go there (at least in that era, I don't know if it's still insane now). We had to overcome a really good team and the crowd.
The Lawrence game was weird before the tip and weird after the game... but the dimensions of the court actually didn't make it seem like we were playing in front of such a tiny crowd... there's a pretty small lower bowl around the court and then an upper bowl above... I'm not going to say the lower section was full (and there was nobody in the upper), but it even in the game against UPS the night before, when there was about 1800 there, it got loud a few times, but we really took them out of the game. It might have been something completely different to have
Memorial Fieldhouse (http://www.loggerathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2010-11/photos/NewFieldhouse1Full-2.jpg?max_width=300) packed to the rafters like
Gus Young (http://www.flickr.com/photos/gogusties/4393338933/in/set-72157623523416546/) was... but it wasn't.
And honestly, the game itself was so intense we really didn't really notice the small crowd... it was just like an away game... when we did something well, our contingent cheered... and I have to say, for there only being about 70-100 of them, they did a pretty nice job!
Quote from: dahlby on March 02, 2011, 01:19:01 PM
IMHO, if you are seeded higher, you host. I don't care if you host all the games, you have earned it. I don't believe in not keeping score and handing ribbons out to everyone either.
You want to host...win your games. It is real life.
I agree with you in general, but remember that hosting in the D-III tournament is not awarded strictly on the merits of your team. Geography almost always comes first. So it's very possible a less than elite can simply get lucky in the draw and host all the way to the Final Four.
Thanks for the corrections. (I will be glad when the archives have been restored to the new server, so I can double check the facts.) +1!
Andy York did a great job, both on the Lawrence SRSU Sweet 16 game the night before and on the Lawrence Stevens Point game in the Elite 8.
I remember that night fondly because Lawrence's student station stream reached its capacity and I pulled out my laptop, ran a phone cord into the other room, logged in on dialup, then plugged a cable out of one computer into my broadcast board, ran that board into the laptop so we could effectively double the capacity and still have a mic available to talk about the bonus coverage and do a scoreboard show.
Do we know what coverage is coming from Cabrini?
Cabrini is planning video and we are staffing the audio portion of that broadcast with Gordon Mann and Chris Pesotski.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 02, 2011, 03:32:33 PM
Cabrini is planning video and we are staffing the audio portion of that broadcast with Gordon Mann and Chris Pesotski.
Nice. I'll be in attendance at least on Friday; maybe I'll try to inconspicuously walk by the camera. I'll probably be the only person wearing an Eastern Nazarene College t-shirt.
Hopefully, Cory Lemons will generate a lot of fantasy points.
Quote from: ronk on March 02, 2011, 03:49:59 PM
Hopefully, Cory Lemons will generate a lot of fantasy points.
I
think hope Lemons will draw all the attention and Dom Farrello will go off!
I seem to get all tripped up by the various sources showing links to the IWU/UWRF video this Friday.
Is it too early to have an actual link to the site?
Can anyone offer any assistance?
Thank you.
The Redlands/Chapman game on THURSDAY night will be available via audio, livestats and video via chapmanathletics.com
I've been fiddling around with efficiency ratings for the entire D3 men's field. I wasn't able to find stats for Husson either on their site or their conference site. Chances are pretty good they'd be one of the lowest rated teams in the field.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the overall match-ups, there don't seem to be any that are completely crazy bad. Even the geographical orphans seems to be fair match-ups that don't skew the regions too badly. I'm really impressed with how well the committee's seem to have the higher seeds correct. (Not necessarily the overall seeding, there are just geographical things you can't avoid) But FWIW I have the top 8 teams spread 2 each in the regions with 1, 2, 3 and 4 in different brackets. That seems like a rare happening.
The only pairing I found to be really bad is having St. Norbert and Steven Point play in round 1. St. Norbert rates very high #9, and UWSP is #1.
It would be difficult to correct this but I think I would have preferred IWU go to Concordia to play Point, and St. Norbert go to St. Thomas to play UW-River Falls. Still a bad match-up, but better at least for St. Norbert where they might be the favorite. IWU comes in around #30 so that would be more favorable for UWSP.
St. Norbert could have gone to Augustana, maybe in Hope's place, but that would still make a tough matchup with UWSP/Hope. Replacing Hanover would have given a St. Norbert/Hope matchup two years in row and another bad match-up (Hope is #16 in the field by EFF).
I'll probably have more tomorrow on the brackets
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2011, 10:45:31 PM
I've been fiddling around with efficiency ratings for the entire D3 men's field. I wasn't able to find stats for Husson either on their site or their conference site. Chances are pretty good they'd be one of the lowest rated teams in the field.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the overall match-ups, there don't seem to be any that are completely crazy bad. Even the geographical orphans seems to be fair match-ups that don't skew the regions too badly. I'm really impressed with how well the committee's seem to have the higher seeds correct. (Not necessarily the overall seeding, there are just geographical things you can't avoid) But FWIW I have the top 8 teams spread 2 each in the regions with 1, 2, 3 and 4 in different brackets. That seems like a rare happening.
The only pairing I found to be really bad is having St. Norbert and Steven Point play in round 1. St. Norbert rates very high #9, and UWSP is #1.
It would be difficult to correct this but I think I would have preferred IWU go to Concordia to play Point, and St. Norbert go to St. Thomas to play UW-River Falls. Still a bad match-up, but better at least for St. Norbert where they might be the favorite. IWU comes in around #30 so that would be more favorable for UWSP.
St. Norbert could have gone to Augustana, maybe in Hope's place, but that would still make a tough matchup with UWSP/Hope. Replacing Hanover would have given a St. Norbert/Hope matchup two years in row and another bad match-up (Hope is #16 in the field by EFF).
I'll probably have more tomorrow on the brackets
sac,
This is a link to Husson's statistics. I think this is what you're looking for.
http://athletics.husson.edu/sports/mbkb/2010-11/teams/husson?view=splits
Thanks, but I need their opponents stats as well. Plus all those averages mean I have to do more math than I already am doing.
Its not my favorite format, statcrew is much better. Chapman has the same problem but I was willing to dig through their boxscores, not so much for Husson.
The Heartland Conference uses the same program but they have a link to html stats.
The tournament is underway. Western Connecticut leads Salve Regina 19-11 in the first half of the first game. The live stats are ahead of the video feed, which is annoying, but I can't really complain. Five years ago the idea of watching a first round game over the internet would have seemed like science fiction.
Salve seems to be having some trouble adjusting to the big space in WestConn's gym. They're beginning to settle down, but it will be a long hill to climb if they're going to beat WestConn.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2011, 07:16:34 PM
The tournament is underway. Western Connecticut leads Salve Regina 19-11 in the first half of the first game. The live stats are ahead of the video feed, which is annoying, but I can't really complain. Five years ago the idea of watching a first round game over the internet would have seemed like science fiction.
Salve seems to be having some trouble adjusting to the big space in WestConn's gym. They're beginning to settle down, but it will be a long hill to climb if they're going to beat WestConn.
Which brings to mind my all-time favorite scene in the history of basketball films...
Enjoy ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4QP6kNAoc
Looks like Western Connecticut is going to run away with it. Salve Regina is down 15, making lots of mistakes, and shooting cold.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2011, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2011, 07:16:34 PM
The tournament is underway. Western Connecticut leads Salve Regina 19-11 in the first half of the first game. The live stats are ahead of the video feed, which is annoying, but I can't really complain. Five years ago the idea of watching a first round game over the internet would have seemed like science fiction.
Salve seems to be having some trouble adjusting to the big space in WestConn's gym. They're beginning to settle down, but it will be a long hill to climb if they're going to beat WestConn.
Which brings to mind my all-time favorite scene in the history of basketball films...
Enjoy ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4QP6kNAoc
Reassuring teenagers that the dimensions are the same may be important, but the backgrounds also matter. I always thought the old Fred Young Fieldhouse (IWU, of course ;)) gave a huge advantage over 'newbies', since one end you were looking at the 2nd floor 'weight room' (just a balcony with a few barbells), and the other you might be looking into the setting sun! ;D After a few sessions, the 'problems' were gone, but to a first-timer, they may have been significant.
West Conn won pretty easily. Salve's Hinkson went 1-9 from deep. Not their best game, but also a pretty typical game. Too many turnovers, not enough shots made.
West Conn did not look spry enough to spring Middlebury.
UMHB has maintained at least a 6-8 point lead since about 2 minutes left in the first half.
At the half, UMHB led 44-34.
UMHB 82-75 with 1:22 left in the game.
UMHB 86, UT-Dallas 77.
UMHB has UT-D's number. The ASC is full of such intricacies.
Quote from: sac on March 02, 2011, 10:45:31 PM
I've been fiddling around with efficiency ratings for the entire D3 men's field. I wasn't able to find stats for Husson either on their site or their conference site. Chances are pretty good they'd be one of the lowest rated teams in the field.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the overall match-ups, there don't seem to be any that are completely crazy bad. Even the geographical orphans seems to be fair match-ups that don't skew the regions too badly. I'm really impressed with how well the committee's seem to have the higher seeds correct. (Not necessarily the overall seeding, there are just geographical things you can't avoid) But FWIW I have the top 8 teams spread 2 each in the regions with 1, 2, 3 and 4 in different brackets. That seems like a rare happening.
The only pairing I found to be really bad is having St. Norbert and Steven Point play in round 1. St. Norbert rates very high #9, and UWSP is #1.
It would be difficult to correct this but I think I would have preferred IWU go to Concordia to play Point, and St. Norbert go to St. Thomas to play UW-River Falls. Still a bad match-up, but better at least for St. Norbert where they might be the favorite. IWU comes in around #30 so that would be more favorable for UWSP.
St. Norbert could have gone to Augustana, maybe in Hope's place, but that would still make a tough matchup with UWSP/Hope. Replacing Hanover would have given a St. Norbert/Hope matchup two years in row and another bad match-up (Hope is #16 in the field by EFF).
I'll probably have more tomorrow on the brackets
check the ncaa website. i dont have the link here, but i found stats for all d3 teams on it
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2011, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2011, 07:16:34 PM
The tournament is underway. Western Connecticut leads Salve Regina 19-11 in the first half of the first game. The live stats are ahead of the video feed, which is annoying, but I can't really complain. Five years ago the idea of watching a first round game over the internet would have seemed like science fiction.
Salve seems to be having some trouble adjusting to the big space in WestConn's gym. They're beginning to settle down, but it will be a long hill to climb if they're going to beat WestConn.
Which brings to mind my all-time favorite scene in the history of basketball films...
Enjoy ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4QP6kNAoc
And a very nice scene it is, Ralph. I can remember many happy afternoons and evenings in Butler Fieldhouse, still the best place to watch a game. Thanks for posting it!
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 03, 2011, 07:23:55 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 03, 2011, 07:16:34 PM
The tournament is underway. Western Connecticut leads Salve Regina 19-11 in the first half of the first game. The live stats are ahead of the video feed, which is annoying, but I can't really complain. Five years ago the idea of watching a first round game over the internet would have seemed like science fiction.
Salve seems to be having some trouble adjusting to the big space in WestConn's gym. They're beginning to settle down, but it will be a long hill to climb if they're going to beat WestConn.
Which brings to mind my all-time favorite scene in the history of basketball films...
Enjoy ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb4QP6kNAoc
My favorite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMV_gvBwL1g&feature=related
Headed up to Cabrini now, well, I'm planning to get there about 4; tickets go on sale at 4:30. Hopefully there's no Purchase and Hartwick fans camping out.
SUNY-Purchase and Hartwick fans queuing up yesterday afternoon at Cabrini:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easyartpro.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2FRichard-Allport-long-queue2.jpg&hash=d92f052916fadaec02b5e0d56ccfaff31c2960d7)
Better hurry, HF! :)
Ya' gotta love it. Must have been a packed gym with alot of noise!
Quote from: David Collinge on March 04, 2011, 01:38:48 PM
SUNY-Purchase and Hartwick fans queuing up yesterday afternoon at Cabrini:
(https://www.d3boards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.easyartpro.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F07%2FRichard-Allport-long-queue2.jpg&hash=d92f052916fadaec02b5e0d56ccfaff31c2960d7)
Better hurry, HF! :)
love it- fine work, David
ALMOST the first big upset of the tourney: Alvernia led Randy Mac by 7 w/ 90 seconds left, but RMC forced OT, then won by 3.
Randolph-Macon almost got an early exit as Alvernia with a 3 point lead with seconds to go. Danny Jones capped a 10-3 run over the last 4 minutes with a game tying 3 pointer with 5 seconds left and send it to overtime tied at 52. Down 59-57 with less tham 2 minutes remaining the Yellow Jackets score the game's final 5 points to come away with the win 62-59.
Hope 73 Hanover 70
Another squeaker,
Williams 86, Husson 83 OT :o
How many brackets would have been busted had RMC and the Ephs lost tonight?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2011, 09:33:41 PM
Another squeaker,
Williams 86, Husson 83 OT :o
How many brackets would have been busted had RMC and the Ephs lost tonight?
Most of them! :D
this ramapo game is freaking amazing. i expected a high-paced game, but even i couldnt predict a game in the high 90s!
according to the announcers, Johnson and Wales late 2 was clearly a 3, thus the game shouldve been a one point victory for JW instead of heading to overtime, amazing.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 04, 2011, 09:33:41 PM
Another squeaker,
Williams 86, Husson 83 OT :o
How many brackets would have been busted had RMC and the Ephs lost tonight?
I have a bad memory with these things, but is that the closest an NESCAC team has come to flopping on the first night?
Is it just me or does the bracket challenge site leave something to be desired? I don't see my picks anywhere? Plus there is no link to it on d3hoops.com. What's up with that?
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 04, 2011, 09:38:44 PM
this ramapo game is freaking amazing. i expected a high-paced game, but even i couldnt predict a game in the high 90s!
So LaMonte did enough to sauted his way onto the NE Region team? I'd hate to be the voters trying to choose guards for the NE.
Purchase was better than I expected. I hadn't realized their roster was 9 seniors and 2 juniors. They were very athletic and confident. They came out nervous and sloppy, gave up a big lead, but got it back by halftime. I figured them for an easy win. Hartwick's coach made all the right adjustments at the half - even if he was a short-tempered whiner, he coached them well. In the end, Purchase's size and speed were too much.
I've never been to a men's tournament game in person, so I was plenty impressed by Purchase. I was blown away when the NJCU-Cabrini game started. Both teams came out on fire, running and banging with crazy intensity. They stayed up for 39 minutes. NJCU brought almost half the gym over from NJ, so there was a real back and forth atmosphere.
Tons, tons, tons of credit to Cabrini's coach. He took a bunch of guys who mostly looked like scrawny, unathletic kids and got an incredibly disciplined, well schooled performance from them. Cory Lemons was as advertised. He was so in control and fluid he looked like he was playing with kids comparatively. But without Dom Farello, Cabrini would have been sunk. This kid did everything right, hustle plays, scoring, running himself ragged. Beautiful game.
Cabrini was switching defenses all over the place and running this offense that was light years more complex than anything I've seen at the d3 level. They had one play with so many cuts, screens and passes, it was tough to follow from the stands, let along on defense.
They're a legit squad. They might have some trouble with aggressive bigs, but they won't get blown out by Wooster.
I think they'll handle Purchase unless they're too worn out from the tough, emotional win tonight.
So what games will everyone be watching today. My "best games" for the night are
RIC vs. Oswego
RIC looked strong in the first game, but struggled early in the season. I want to see if they are for real, if they are watch out, this is the same team only a year older that went to the Sweet 16 last year, could be a surprise team. I'll take RIC, 76-65
Amherst vs WPI
Too great Northeast teams. This one could be a classic. Ill go Amherst 68-64
Whitworth vs. Chapman
I really like Chapman, but I dont love this matchup. Taylor goes off and Whitworth takes it 74-61
What about everyone else?
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 04, 2011, 10:37:01 PM
Is it just me or does the bracket challenge site leave something to be desired? I don't see my picks anywhere? Plus there is no link to it on d3hoops.com. What's up with that?
Well, in the end, we spun that off to a partner. There was some display bug that I was told would be taken care of by this morning. I didn't link out to it from our wrapup pages today because I knew I would just generate a lot of emails to both us and them about the issue.
Sorry to miss you at Cabrini yesterday Hoops Fan. Glad you made the trip!
I think tonight's Cabrini-Purchase tilt will be a tight one. Billups and Lemons are pretty evenly matched. Purchase can shoot the lights out and Cabrini is a great defensive squad. Both teams are well-coached, disciplined and experienced. Charles Thompson could create some matchup issues for the Cavaliers, though. I looks for a D3 classic tonight at the Nerney Field house.
C
Quote from: Coach C on March 05, 2011, 01:31:01 PM
Sorry to miss you at Cabrini yesterday Hoops Fan. Glad you made the trip!
I think tonight's Cabrini-Purchase tilt will be a tight one. Billups and Lemons are pretty evenly matched. Purchase can shoot the lights out and Cabrini is a great defensive squad. Both teams are well-coached, disciplined and experienced. Charles Thompson could create some matchup issues for the Cavaliers, though. I looks for a D3 classic tonight at the Nerney Field house.
I thought Purchase looked really soft. Their big man had those two monster blocks early in the game, which kept Hartwick out of the paint for the first half, but when they took the ball inside in the second, Purchase seemed to back down.
If Cabrini goes as hard and intense as they did last night, Purchase will really have to step up their game to compete. I think they can do it, but I don't know if they will. The Purchase coach really seemed to miss a lot of adjustments in the second half and never got his guys prepared to attack the Hartwick zone. I can't imagine that will get easier with Cabrini throwing three different zones at them tonight.
By my score of my D3Photography.com men's bracket, I scored my bracket (on good authority) as 24 right out of 29 games through the first round:
I missed on these 5 first round games:
(1) Luther over Concordia (Wis.)-- I picked Concordia (Wis.)
(2) Buffalo State over Gwynedd-Mercy-- I picked Gwynedd-Mercy
(3) Johnson & Wales over Ramapo-- I picked Ramapo (but I personally do not feel too bad that I missed on that one!)
(4) MIT over Ithaca-- I picked Ithaca
(5) Illinois Wesleyan over UW-River Falls-- I picked River Falls.
24 pts. through the first round-- not bad. Let's see what happens today for me on the men's side-- I will also need to watch some ECAC New England action tonight in addition to the NCAA games, as my alma mater is playing in the second ECAC New England semifinal.
Quote from: deiscanton on March 05, 2011, 03:27:49 PM
By my score of my D3Photography.com men's bracket, I scored my bracket (on good authority) as 24 right out of 29 games through the first round:
I missed on these 5 first round games:
(1) Luther over Concordia (Wis.)-- I picked Concordia (Wis.)
(2) Buffalo State over Gwynedd-Mercy-- I picked Gwynedd-Mercy
(3) Johnson & Wales over Ramapo-- I picked Ramapo (but I personally do not feel too bad that I missed on that one!)
(4) MIT over Ithaca-- I picked Ithaca
(5) Illinois Wesleyan over UW-River Falls-- I picked River Falls.
24 pts. through the first round-- not bad. Let's see what happens today for me on the men's side-- I will also need to watch some ECAC New England action tonight in addition to the NCAA games, as my alma mater is playing in the second ECAC New England semifinal.
I, too, missed on your #1, 3, and 4, but no others - I can live with 26 of 29! ;D
(Serves ya right to be behind me if you're gonna pick against my Titans! :D)
I topped you both, I didn't miss a single team yesterday!
I also didn't get any right... I thought to do my bracket on Thursday night after the first games had already started... Doh!
FWIW, I think I would have had CUW and UWRF winning, so let's say I missed two!
I think I missed six, but two of my final sixteen are already out. I'll stick to trying to win the fantasy league instead.
Quote from: deiscanton on March 05, 2011, 03:27:49 PM
By my score of my D3Photography.com men's bracket, I scored my bracket (on good authority) as 24 right out of 29 games through the first round:
I missed on these 5 first round games:
(1) Luther over Concordia (Wis.)-- I picked Concordia (Wis.)
(2) Buffalo State over Gwynedd-Mercy-- I picked Gwynedd-Mercy
(3) Johnson & Wales over Ramapo-- I picked Ramapo (but I personally do not feel too bad that I missed on that one!)
(4) MIT over Ithaca-- I picked Ithaca
(5) Illinois Wesleyan over UW-River Falls-- I picked River Falls.
24 pts. through the first round-- not bad. Let's see what happens today for me on the men's side-- I will also need to watch some ECAC New England action tonight in addition to the NCAA games, as my alma mater is playing in the second ECAC New England semifinal.
dont be modest, count the byes as points, and you got 27 out of 32!
Not quite sure if it was a good night or not. Assuming Whitworth wins (they're off to a fast start), I went a semi-decent 12-4, with only one of my losers projected to win next weekend. However, that one loser, Randy Mac, I had in the FF. :P
I've only got 11 of my 16, but all of my final four are still good to go.
I know this sort of goes without saying after recent performances, but I'm a bit nervous about violating my usual rules and guessing Whitworth would not make it to Salem.
I was voting them #1 in the Posters Poll most of the year, but somehow allowed myself to be suckered into the NESCAC towards the end of the season.
Whitworth is the best team playing. I know that doesn't mean they'll win, but I feel like bad things might happen to me if I don't say that publicly.
Sectionals
Mary Hardin-Baylor, Augustana, Stevens Point, St. Thomas-----bracket says St. Thomas but I think Point might get that one but don't rule out Augustana.
Whitworth, Marietta, Wooster, Cabrini----bracket says Whitworth, but I don't see that curveball coming from the NCAA. I think Wooster gets it
Buffalo St, St. Mary's, Rochester, Middlebury-----bracket says Middlebury, I'll stick with Middlebury.
Williams, Vir. Wesleyan, Amherst, Rhode Island----bracket says Williams, I'll stick with Williams.
*edit because I spelled Middlebury wrong 2 out of 3 times. ::)
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2011, 11:20:26 PM
*edit because I spelled Middlebury wrong 2 out of 3 times. ::)
I guess it depends on whether you want the fruit or the city! ;D
Even as a Whitworth fan I don't know if I'd put much money on them making it to Salem.
They are easily BETTER than Wooster, Marietta, and Cabrini...but they have to fly to Ohio and play a school who is 2 hours from campus...
I would call em almost a lock ft hosting stayed true to seeding... ::)
I know there is no"seeding"...you know what I mean
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2011, 11:20:26 PM
Sectionals
Mary Hardin-Baylor, Augustana, Stevens Point, St. Thomas-----bracket says St. Thomas but I think Point might get that one but don't rule out Augustana.
Whitworth, Marietta, Wooster, Cabrini----bracket says Whitworth, but I don't see that curveball coming from the NCAA. I think Wooster gets it
Buffalo St, St. Mary's, Rochester, Middlebury-----bracket says Middlebury, I'll stick with Middlebury.
Williams, Vir. Wesleyan, Amherst, Rhode Island----bracket says Williams, I'll stick with Williams.
*edit because I spelled Middlebury wrong 2 out of 3 times. ::)
St. Mary's would have to fly to Middlebury. I'm thinking Rochester gets the nod.
Wow, that's a big advantage for Rochester. I know none of this is fair, but I do wish it could be.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2011, 11:54:37 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2011, 11:20:26 PM
Sectionals
Mary Hardin-Baylor, Augustana, Stevens Point, St. Thomas-----bracket says St. Thomas but I think Point might get that one but don't rule out Augustana.
Whitworth, Marietta, Wooster, Cabrini----bracket says Whitworth, but I don't see that curveball coming from the NCAA. I think Wooster gets it
Buffalo St, St. Mary's, Rochester, Middlebury-----bracket says Middlebury, I'll stick with Middlebury.
Williams, Vir. Wesleyan, Amherst, Rhode Island----bracket says Williams, I'll stick with Williams.
*edit because I spelled Middlebury wrong 2 out of 3 times. ::)
St. Mary's would have to fly to Middlebury. I'm thinking Rochester gets the nod.
Pat, How many girls games have flown or MUST fly next weekend? Anyone?
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 05, 2011, 11:53:51 PM
Even as a Whitworth fan I don't know if I'd put much money on them making it to Salem.
They are easily BETTER than Wooster, Marietta, and Cabrini...but they have to fly to Ohio and play a school who is 2 hours from campus...
I would call em almost a lock ft hosting stayed true to seeding... ::)
I know there is no"seeding"...you know what I mean
There is a much more favorable geographical distribution of teams outside the area south of the Potomac and west of the Appalachians in D-II,
D-II Map (http://catalog.proemags.com/publication/d5ea8b79#/d5ea8b79/70)
and I will bet that the tuition discount rate at the NWC schools is greater than the value of the tuition dollars awarded as pure athletic scholarships at the D-II level.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2011, 12:10:43 AM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 05, 2011, 11:53:51 PM
Even as a Whitworth fan I don't know if I'd put much money on them making it to Salem.
They are easily BETTER than Wooster, Marietta, and Cabrini...but they have to fly to Ohio and play a school who is 2 hours from campus...
I would call em almost a lock ft hosting stayed true to seeding... ::)
I know there is no"seeding"...you know what I mean
There is a much more favorable geographical distribution of teams outside the area south of the Potomac and west of the Appalachians in D-II,
D-II Map (http://catalog.proemags.com/publication/d5ea8b79#/d5ea8b79/70)
and I will bet that the tuition discount rate at the NWC schools is greater than the value of the tuition dollars awarded as pure athletic scholarships at the D-II level.
Without the rest of the NWC, travel costs would increase. Especially football, where only Central Washington and Western Oregon have programs. On the plus side, Whitworth's basketball team could come right in and contend in the GNAC...
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2011, 12:06:55 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 05, 2011, 11:54:37 PM
Quote from: sac on March 05, 2011, 11:20:26 PM
Sectionals
Mary Hardin-Baylor, Augustana, Stevens Point, St. Thomas-----bracket says St. Thomas but I think Point might get that one but don't rule out Augustana.
Whitworth, Marietta, Wooster, Cabrini----bracket says Whitworth, but I don't see that curveball coming from the NCAA. I think Wooster gets it
Buffalo St, St. Mary's, Rochester, Middlebury-----bracket says Middlebury, I'll stick with Middlebury.
Williams, Vir. Wesleyan, Amherst, Rhode Island----bracket says Williams, I'll stick with Williams.
*edit because I spelled Middlebury wrong 2 out of 3 times. ::)
St. Mary's would have to fly to Middlebury. I'm thinking Rochester gets the nod.
Pat, How many girls games have flown or MUST fly next weekend? Anyone?
Women's games? Remember that because they have no byes they have more flights by default. The men would have had to fly two extra teams by now if they had no byes.
I count four women's flights in the first round and one for this weekend.
Pat,
Comparing the men's and women's bracket at this stage, does this mean that the women's coaches don't want the national tourney that the men's coaches requested? There are no east-east or west-west finals possible and the Juniata pod is the only one that crosses in the whole bracket. Do u know their thinking on this? How could the 2 b so diverse in design?
Ronk, they always have been diverse in design. Once upon a time the women's committee led the way in breaking new ground with strong bracket designs. This year they really did not.
The women's committee has both a new chair and a new liaison (commonly referred to as the NCAA beancounter) which may have something to do with the lack of creativity this time around. Also, I get the impression that the women have overspent in past years, so perhaps they were forced to keep things closer.
There is one possible west-west final remaining. Christopher Newport could face Greensboro. (If you're breaking D-III into East and West, the NE, E, MA and A are the East and the S, GL, C and W are the West.)
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 06, 2011, 01:12:18 AM
I count four women's flights in the first round and one for this weekend.
THANK YOU. All the bye considerations being true, It would be
even for 3 teams to fly to Spokane and Rochester hosts. Optimism is all (we know) we can have in the NW. :)
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2011, 12:06:55 AM
Pat, How many girls games have flown or MUST fly next weekend? Anyone?
Next weekend: George Fox would have to fly Illinois Wesleyan/Stevens Point wherever the sectional ends up being. I think all the other teams are within 500 miles but I don't have an actual milage counter. As for teams that have had to fly already: George Fox & Louisiana college to Chapman, Lewis & Clark and Howard Payne to Coe, and Whitewater to Thomas More were the only flights I've seen on the women's side for the first 2 rounds.
Whitworth will have to fly, obviously. I think Virginia Wesleyan is 500+ from all three of the other schools. Everyone else can drive it. I expect hosts will be Middlebury, Williams, Wooster, and St Thomas/Augie.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 06, 2011, 08:11:11 AM
Whitworth will have to fly, obviously. I think Virginia Wesleyan is 500+ from all three of the other schools. Everyone else can drive it. I expect hosts will be Middlebury, Williams, Wooster, and St Thomas/Augie.
Wooster? 8 hour drive from Philly or fly and drive 90 minutes. Oh well impossible to support my Cavs there, that 28-2 record plus winning by 2 in the last seconds last night must have sealed the fate. Since Philly is closer to many of the other schools theoretically the Cavs could have hosted if Wooster did not win.......oh well just glad to be there in the Sweet 16 !
Save it Wolfpac, your team isn't ranked #1 in the country and flying 2,000 miles to play...oh well, knew that was coming.
Whitworth v. Marietta in Wooster, OH
Hopefully this year Whitworth handles the travel better in that first game. Which day does NCAA start covering hotel for the team, Thursday? Wonder if Hayford will fly em out a day early and cover hotel with his monstrous budget...could NCAA stop them if Pirates are footing the bill?
(509)Rat:
It is my understanding that the George Fox women's team flew down to Chapman on Wednesday,
which was a day earlier thaan what the NCAA pays for.
I bring this question from the ODAC board where the lamentations of the RMC fans are plainly read.
I ask the opinions of the readers of this board.
How much home court advantage is there against a team:
that buses less than 3 hours?
more than 3 hours?
is flown to the site?
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2011, 01:04:09 PM
I bring this question from the ODAC board where the lamentations of the RMC fans are plainly read.
I ask the opinions of the readers of this board.
How much home court advantage is there against a team:
that buses less than 3 hours?
more than 3 hours?
is flown to the site?
Not sure if I understand the question but this past weekend Buffalo State traveled "more than 3 hours" to Ramapo and probably had a total of 40 fans (alotted 274 tickets..gave 230 plus back) make the 374 mile trip. This weekend we travel "less than 3 hours", (74 miles to be exact) to Rochester where I am sure our students/supporters will absorb every ticket that we are alotted. Truely a much better scenario for our kids if nothing else.
Undoubtly U of R. will have their side of the Palestra packed, but I'm hoping that thier fans will support thier fellow Western New Yorkers in the earlier game!
True that when the game starts it's just your 5 vs. their 5, and we did watch a JOHNSON and WALES team beat Ramapo which had 4 times as many fans in the house.
My bad, I did not make the question clear.
How many points is home court Advantage worth to the home team for those scenarios?
Less than 3 hours?
More than 3 hours?
A plane flight?
Quote from: Bengalsrule on March 06, 2011, 02:15:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2011, 01:04:09 PM
I bring this question from the ODAC board where the lamentations of the RMC fans are plainly read.
I ask the opinions of the readers of this board.
How much home court advantage is there against a team:
that buses less than 3 hours?
more than 3 hours?
is flown to the site?
Not sure if I understand the question but this past weekend Buffalo State traveled "more than 3 hours" to Ramapo and probably had a total of 40 fans (alotted 274 tickets..gave 230 plus back) make the 374 mile trip. This weekend we travel "less than 3 hours", (74 miles to be exact) to Rochester where I am sure our students/supporters will absorb every ticket that we are alotted. Truely a much better scenario for our kids if nothing else.
Undoubtly U of R. will have their side of the Palestra packed, but I'm hoping that thier fans will support thier fellow Western New Yorkers in the earlier game!
True that when the game starts it's just your 5 vs. their 5, and we did watch a JOHNSON and WALES team beat Ramapo which had 4 times as many fans in the house.
It's Spring Break at U of R so the Hive will be empty I imagine. There may be a good crowd but it will be lots of parents/grandparents w/kids and not as loud as when the students are around
If I am reading the schedule for the next round properly, Whitworth plays Marietta at 7:30 EST, but according to the schedule, Wooster and Cabrini play at the same time? Is this a typo, or are there 2 gyms there???
Good teams certainly have a home advantage, Massey rates UWSP home advantage as #1 in D3. Over the last ten years UWSP has posted the following records:
Home 138-16 .896 wp
Away 88-32 .733 wp
Neut 22-2 .917 wp
If you add the Away and Neutral records and compare to Home:
Home court 138-16 .896
Away from home 110-34 .764
Using only NCAA tourney records:
Home 10-2 .833
Away 2-1 .667
Neut 9-2 .818
Home court 10-2 .833
Away from home 11-3 .785
If you base assumptions using UWSP as a very good team over the past decade, you win home games at a slightly higher percentage than on the road. A good team will have a larger gap, & so on.
Comparing a couple of other teams:
Wooster
Home 144-21 .872
Away 88-22 .800
Neut 20-4 .833
Home court 144-21 .872
Away from home 108-26 .806
Randolph-Macon
Home 107-17 .863
Away 79-32 .712
Neut 31-15 .674
Home court 107-17 .863
Away from home 110-47 .700
Based on these arguably small samples, UWSP and Wooster are elite teams capable of winning anywhere. RMC needs to be home. Mind you now, a 70% winning pct away from home is very good, but if your argument is that you would have won this game or that game if at home, your claim to be one of the top teams has a few warts.
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 06, 2011, 03:00:23 PM
If I am reading the schedule for the next round properly, Whitworth plays Marietta at 7:30 EST, but according to the schedule, Wooster and Cabrini play at the same time? Is this a typo, or are there 2 gyms there???
There's a huge Student Wellness Center (http://www.woosterathletics.com/facilities/index.html) under construction, but no, there's just the one 3400-seat Timken Gymnasium (http://www.woosterathletics.com/facilities/files/timken.html). The Whitworth/Marietta game will be at 5:30 EST Friday, followed by Wooster/Cabrini.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2011, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 06, 2011, 03:00:23 PM
If I am reading the schedule for the next round properly, Whitworth plays Marietta at 7:30 EST, but according to the schedule, Wooster and Cabrini play at the same time? Is this a typo, or are there 2 gyms there???
There's a huge Student Wellness Center (http://www.woosterathletics.com/facilities/index.html) under construction, but no, there's just the one 3400-seat Timken Gymnasium (http://www.woosterathletics.com/facilities/files/timken.html). The Whitworth/Marietta game will be at 5:30 EST Friday, followed by Wooster/Cabrini.
Thanks for the clarification, i figured it was an error. Gives us westerners a SWEET reason to get out of work early!
Quote from: 7express on March 06, 2011, 02:59:50 AM
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 06, 2011, 12:06:55 AM
Pat, How many girls games have flown or MUST fly next weekend? Anyone?
Next weekend: George Fox would have to fly Illinois Wesleyan/Stevens Point wherever the sectional ends up being. I think all the other teams are within 500 miles but I don't have an actual milage counter. As for teams that have had to fly already: George Fox & Louisiana college to Chapman, Lewis & Clark and Howard Payne to Coe, and Whitewater to Thomas More were the only flights I've seen on the women's side for the first 2 rounds.
7express,
Just for you, to tuck away in your favorites file, your very own mileage table. The official one of course, for all NCAA schools. Here's the link:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
Quote from: Bengalsrule on March 06, 2011, 02:15:02 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 06, 2011, 01:04:09 PM
I bring this question from the ODAC board where the lamentations of the RMC fans are plainly read.
I ask the opinions of the readers of this board.
How much home court advantage is there against a team:
that buses less than 3 hours?
more than 3 hours?
is flown to the site?
Not sure if I understand the question but this past weekend Buffalo State traveled "more than 3 hours" to Ramapo and probably had a total of 40 fans (alotted 274 tickets..gave 230 plus back) make the 374 mile trip. This weekend we travel "less than 3 hours", (74 miles to be exact) to Rochester where I am sure our students/supporters will absorb every ticket that we are alotted. Truely a much better scenario for our kids if nothing else.
Undoubtly U of R. will have their side of the Palestra packed, but I'm hoping that thier fans will support thier fellow Western New Yorkers in the earlier game!
True that when the game starts it's just your 5 vs. their 5, and we did watch a JOHNSON and WALES team beat Ramapo which had 4 times as many fans in the house.
Bengalsrule,
I was hoping I'd have to ask you for 1 of those 274 tickets that you might be alloted if they gave Middlebury the Sectional. ;D But, like I told you on the phone last night, I thought there was a good chance Rochester would be the host. So as much as I wanted them to be in Middlebury, for my own selfish reasons, I'm happy for the Bengal fans who won't have to travel very far. Anyway, it would be just my luck that if Middlebury had been chosen, we'd get hammered with a big snowstorm, like the one that's slamming us right at the moment, and I'd have to miss the game anyways. Just hope that Rochester will have the game on streaming video. They did last weekend for the women's games, so I'm sure they will for the men.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 06, 2011, 03:18:35 PM
Quote from: 89Pirate on March 06, 2011, 03:00:23 PM
If I am reading the schedule for the next round properly, Whitworth plays Marietta at 7:30 EST, but according to the schedule, Wooster and Cabrini play at the same time? Is this a typo, or are there 2 gyms there???
There's a huge Student Wellness Center (http://www.woosterathletics.com/facilities/index.html) under construction, but no, there's just the one 3400-seat Timken Gymnasium (http://www.woosterathletics.com/facilities/files/timken.html). The Whitworth/Marietta game will be at 5:30 EST Friday, followed by Wooster/Cabrini.
Impressive Homecourt.
Quote from: magicman on March 06, 2011, 04:24:40 PM
7express,
Just for you, to tuck away in your favorites file, your very own mileage table. The official one of course, for all NCAA schools. Here's the link:
https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
One step ahead of you Magic :)
As soon as I posted my message I googled "NCAA mileage chart and I bookmarked that same exact page.
So it was noted that Stevens Point didn't get a host bid because Augustana was ranked higher. Was that an overall ranking? I think Augie was 2nd in the midwest and Point was 3rd in the west. What about St. Thomas? They were ranked higher than Point, right? I would've guessed the Tommies hosting before Augustana. Not sure what the atmosphere is in Rock Island, but I've heard St. Thomas can be pretty hostile.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2011, 08:06:16 PM
So it was noted that Stevens Point didn't get a host bid because Augustana was ranked higher. Was that an overall ranking? I think Augie was 2nd in the midwest and Point was 3rd in the west. What about St. Thomas? They were ranked higher than Point, right? I would've guessed the Tommies hosting before Augustana. Not sure what the atmosphere is in Rock Island, but I've heard St. Thomas can be pretty hostile.
Augie had been #2 in the Midwest but moved up to #1 in the Midwest after the conference tournament (Augie won the CCIW tourney, CUW lost in the NAthCon Semi's).
Point was 3rd in the pecking order in the bracket. If Point had beaten UST when they played, there's a decent chance that SP would have been #2 in the West region and it would have been much more of a head-to-head with Augie and Point.
Augie historically hasn't had great fan support (not perennially a top team in the country... they have averaged about 1000 over the last few years, not anything to shake a stick at, but not gigantic crowds.
Look at their stats over the years:
LINK (http://www.augustana.edu/x1543.xml)
In their games this weekend, they had 1700 and 1900 (first vs. Webster, second versus Hope).
The CCIW guys would be able to say more about what the atmosphere is like...
So, why is Johnson and Wales listed as Wells in the NCAA Championship book? Not sure if this was covered or not. Just seems odd to me.
In the championship book the bracket on page 2 has Cabrini pod winner playing the Williams pod winner and Va Wesleyan pod playing the Wooster pod winner.
Misprint or prior draft by the committee that was later changed to current bracket?
Which book?
The official "game" program sold at games.
I do know that the committee changed a couple positions of some pods, including Cabrini's in the morning of Match-Up Monday... so that could be the reason, but not sure why it then got into the hands of someone who was putting together that book (which I have, but never looked at the bracket that carefully).
Another mistake... Randolph-Macon's team has Randolph's team picture.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2011, 08:50:09 PM
So, why is Johnson and Wales listed as Wells in the NCAA Championship book? Not sure if this was covered or not. Just seems odd to me.
The official program also has J&W playing Oswego State and Wells playing Ramapo. You guys were probably wondering what the heck I was talking about! ??? I went through the bracket and that's the only other mistake I could find, aside from those two pods being switched as well.
And Wells Express doesn't even have a team picture! I guess that's better than having the WRONG picture.
I wonder if the VA-Wes pod got moved because they were almost guaranteed to have to fly in that top left bracket, whereas there was a better chance of finding a drivable location in the Williams pod? I mean it didn't really work out that way, but could that have been a reason? Especially when all four teams in the Cabrini pod could drive.
I doubt seeding had anything to do with it. It would have been more evenly seeded the way it was printed in the book.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 07, 2011, 06:46:40 AM
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 06, 2011, 08:50:09 PM
So, why is Johnson and Wales listed as Wells in the NCAA Championship book? Not sure if this was covered or not. Just seems odd to me.
The official program also has J&W playing Oswego State and Wells playing Ramapo. You guys were probably wondering what the heck I was talking about! ??? I went through the bracket and that's the only other mistake I could find, aside from those two pods being switched as well.
And Wells Express doesn't even have a team picture! I guess that's better than having the WRONG picture.
Heck, 3-4 years ago they didn't even have a team.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 05:34:58 AM
Another mistake... Randolph-Macon's team has Randolph's team picture.
that is classic
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 07, 2011, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 05:34:58 AM
Another mistake... Randolph-Macon's team has Randolph's team picture.
that is classic
I suspect that some
D-1 intern in the Indianapolis office messed up
again.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2011, 09:44:20 AM
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 07, 2011, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 05:34:58 AM
Another mistake... Randolph-Macon's team has Randolph's team picture.
that is classic
I suspect that some D-1 intern in the Indianapolis office messed up again.
LOL! But why are you assuming it was an intern that messed up? Seems to me, incopetence isn't restricted to interns at the offices of the NCAA! :P ;D
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 07, 2011, 09:48:33 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2011, 09:44:20 AM
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 07, 2011, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 05:34:58 AM
Another mistake... Randolph-Macon's team has Randolph's team picture.
that is classic
I suspect that some D-1 intern in the Indianapolis office messed up again.
LOL! But why are you assuming it was an intern that messed up? Seems to me, incopetence isn't restricted to interns at the offices of the NCAA! :P ;D
ScotsfFan is right. If you're looking for incompetence, look no further than Wooster's opportunity to host this coming weekend... ;)
NCAA championship programs are contracted out to a company called IMG College. There's your mistake-makers.
Probably not on the bracket, though.
I know preliminary brackets get made up and sent out. We got one for football a couple years ago that was rescinded before it aired on ESPNews.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2011, 10:38:24 AM
Probably not on the bracket, though.
I know preliminary brackets get made up and sent out. We got one for football a couple years ago that was rescinded before it aired on ESPNews.
Was that the year #2 Occidental went to #1 Linfield(???) for the first round? I believe in 2008.
It was that year -- I don't recall perfectly what the seedings were but that was that outcome.
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 07, 2011, 10:15:13 AM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 07, 2011, 09:48:33 AM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2011, 09:44:20 AM
Quote from: LustyLarryintheToilet on March 07, 2011, 09:32:52 AM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 05:34:58 AM
Another mistake... Randolph-Macon's team has Randolph's team picture.
that is classic
I suspect that some D-1 intern in the Indianapolis office messed up again.
LOL! But why are you assuming it was an intern that messed up? Seems to me, incopetence isn't restricted to interns at the offices of the NCAA! :P ;D
ScotsfFan is right. If you're looking for incompetence, look no further than Wooster's opportunity to host this coming weekend... ;)
I wouldn't call Wooster hosting as a showing of incompetence as much as I would seeing Rochester awarded a host site. At least Wooster is the #1 ranked team in the GL Region and has been ranked in the top 5 all season as well as a pretty long stretch at the top spot in the D3hoops.com poll. Also, Wooster's only two losses were to ranked teams at the times of their losses. Wabash finished the season ranked and Witt, while unranked, was an NCAA Tournament team. So it's not like Wooster is completely undeserving of being awarded the host site this weekend.
Not that I'm saying Wooster deserved hosting over Whitworth. Your Pirates certainly were the most deserving, but the NCAA always seems to be more interested in saving money in making hosting decisions and Wooster hosting was by far more cost effective than Whitworth hosting. If travel cost was no object, I'm sure you'd be seeing 3 teams flown out to Spokane this weekend, but, unfortunately for Whitworth, travel cost is a major contributing factor.
In both cases, the NCAA screwed someone becuase of $$. One is not more justifiable than the other...Rochester is hosting for the same reason Wooster is, and neither one deserved it.
Yep... welcome to what is called "Bylaw 31"... which basically says that geography trumps regional rankings if it means being fiscally responsible with travel expenses. In other words... one flight vs. three... or move the sectional to another host to avoid a flight all together... that will be the deciding factor.
All this complaining about flying is getting tiresome, it happens every year.....deal with it. Teams fly every year and some of them even come home with a new piece of walnut and bronze carry on.
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 07, 2011, 11:33:05 AM
In both cases, the NCAA screwed someone becuase of $$. One is not more justifiable than the other...Rochester is hosting for the same reason Wooster is, and neither one deserved it.
Again. Wooster lost TWO games. Both to teams ranked in the top 25 at the time. Both of whom had strong cases to make the NCAA tournament and one did make the tournament. Wooster has been the #1 team in the GL Region all season. And they also just happen to have one of the largest gyms in D3 basketball as Timken seats 3,400 people. They are very much deserving hosts!
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 07, 2011, 11:33:05 AM
In both cases, the NCAA screwed someone becuase of $$. One is not more justifiable than the other...Rochester is hosting for the same reason Wooster is, and neither one deserved it.
There are the options for Whitworth.
1) Accept the fact that D3 has its own rules, budget and constraints, including a paucity of teams, (less than 20 or 5% of the D-III membership) west of the Rockies.
2) Move to D-II where there is a greater concentration of schools. There are several large conferences in the western US.
3) Move back to the NAIA, which does things differently. Your fans can go to Branson for the musical entertainment while attending the NAIA-2 national tournament.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2011, 10:36:52 AM
NCAA championship programs are contracted out to a company called IMG College. There's your mistake-makers.
May need to change name to
OMG College or Whoopsie U
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 07, 2011, 12:46:03 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 07, 2011, 11:33:05 AM
In both cases, the NCAA screwed someone becuase of $$. One is not more justifiable than the other...Rochester is hosting for the same reason Wooster is, and neither one deserved it.
Again. Wooster lost TWO games. Both to teams ranked in the top 25 at the time. Both of whom had strong cases to make the NCAA tournament and one did make the tournament. Wooster has been the #1 team in the GL Region all season. And they also just happen to have one of the largest gyms in D3 basketball as Timken seats 3,400 people. They are very much deserving hosts!
I agree with ScotsFan and I think the committee did a decent job of keeping top 8-10 teams away from each other. Whitworth is happy to be playing ANYWHERE in mid March. Most Whitworth fans accept the $ considerations, some do not. Having a top ranked team makes the pill a bit more bitter and some grace to vent is in order. My only hope this go around was in the women's budget and the men's budget having some similiarity in profiles. Didn't happen...move on.
One thing I think many fans do not get is the fact that there is no seeds in our tournament. Wooster and Whitworth if geography and facility was equal, might even be a coin flip.
I think Whitworth would have been ranked behind Wooster simply due to in-region record... but there are certainly other factors like playing regionally ranked teams... which I believe Whitworth played one - if any.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 01:42:52 PM
I think Whitworth would have been ranked behind Wooster simply due to in-region record... but there are certainly other factors like playing regionally ranked teams... which I believe Whitworth played one - if any.
Just pretend they are not in the same region but the flight issue is nil, say Altoona PA if you must.
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 07, 2011, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2011, 10:36:52 AM
NCAA championship programs are contracted out to a company called IMG College. There's your mistake-makers.
May need to change name to OMG College or Whoopsie U
Cant wait to see what they are selling at Rochester Friday. The old program with no Wells team picture, Randolphs' team picture on the Randolph - Macon team page etc. or a "New" Program???
Thank God they got Buffalo State right! ;)
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 01:42:52 PM
I think Whitworth would have been ranked behind Wooster simply due to in-region record... but there are certainly other factors like playing regionally ranked teams... which I believe Whitworth played one - if any.
Regionally ranked in the West? Because that would include 4 games against LC and Whitman, right?
Otherwise they did what they could scheduling Luther, Carthage, and going to the d3hoops tourney.
I'm starting to become a D-II proponent...this is the basketball forum, and us fans know that this will happen every year. But this has happened to Whitworth on a regular basis (as well as other NWC teams) in a number of sports including Football and Softball for the Pirates. Maybe I should be used to it by now??
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 07, 2011, 02:48:40 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 01:42:52 PM
I think Whitworth would have been ranked behind Wooster simply due to in-region record... but there are certainly other factors like playing regionally ranked teams... which I believe Whitworth played one - if any.
Regionally ranked in the West? Because that would include 4 games against LC and Whitman, right?
Otherwise they did what they could scheduling Luther, Carthage, and going to the d3hoops tourney.
I'm starting to become a D-II proponent...this is the basketball forum, and us fans know that this will happen every year. But this has happened to Whitworth on a regular basis (as well as other NWC teams) in a number of sports including Football and Softball for the Pirates. Maybe I should be used to it by now??
I wouldn't say Division II is better. Yes there might be better equality in terms of seeding but I for one don't want to play a conference schedule and a conference tournament, survive those and end up facing a conference foe in the first round of the NCAA Tournament which is common there. The men's bracket has 7 conference rivalries being played in the 8 games in the first round of the Midwest and Central Regions.
Other than the fact that D-II has more schools in your neck of the woods, I'm not sure that it's going to be any better.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2011, 03:03:42 PM
Other than the fact that D-II has more schools in your neck of the woods, I'm not sure that it's going to be any better.
But more teams, assuming they are equally respected/competitive as other regions, means that you have more participants in post season play from your region? That's exactly why Whitworth will never host past the second round, not enough teams west of Minnesota. If Geography is the deciding factor more often than not (and it is even when it comes to the initial selection in several DIII sports), then your goal should be to have as many teams and conferences w/in 500 miles.
Oh well, Hopefully Marietta can only muster up 63 points again on Friday and Whitworth can redeem themselves from last year's sweet 16 exit
Rat - you never know... Puget Sound did host a few years when things went in their favor... and as the brackets continue to expand (62 teams next year - 64 by 2015)... hosting games out there will have to become more common place (i.e. women's first round four-team regional).
Also... DII is going to bring with it a whole mess of financial problems to a school looking to move up. Those scholarships become part of the athletics department's budget... where is that funding going to come from?
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 07, 2011, 03:03:42 PM
Other than the fact that D-II has more schools in your neck of the woods, I'm not sure that it's going to be any better.
I can't speak to the history of any other NWC schools, but I know Puget Sound was D-II... they won the national championship in
1976 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_NCAA_Men's_Division_II_Basketball_Tournament).
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 03:59:38 PM
Puget Sound did host a few years when things went in their favor
When was that?
OxyBob
Quote from: OxyBob on March 07, 2011, 04:07:57 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 03:59:38 PM
Puget Sound did host a few years when things went in their favor
When was that?
OxyBob
03-04 See the WIAC page (most recent post) for the main reason why it was UPS and not Stevens Point.
Simple - UWSP women and men had the chance to host the sectional... and it was decided the women would get the nod (from this experience we now alternate the hosting opportunities by round and by year); Lawrence's gym was too small and the other team was going to fly anyway... so they shipped everyone out to Puget Sound.
It isn't the perfect scenario... but it happened.
Whitworth I know was part of a conversation to see if they could be hosting weeks before the season ended... and you can probably bet the beancounters are the ones that said it wouldn't happen.
Here is the bylaw we all talk about but probably have never read:
31.3.4 S election Decisions of Sports Committees.
The determination of sites, selection of teams or individuals, or their site assignment in championships competition made by a governing sports committee (or a designated subcommittee) may not be appealed. (Adopted: 4/13/10)
31.3.4.1 Pairings and Site Selection.
The following criteria will be used for pairings and site selections: (Adopted: 4/13/10)
(a) Once selected, teams shall be grouped in clusters according to natural-geographic proximity. Teams shall then be paired according to geographic proximity. A team may be moved to numerically balance the bracket if geographic proximity is maintained. Teams shall be paired and eligible according to geographic proximity (within 500 miles). An exception may be granted when there are not enough teams within the 500-mile radius to fill the region;
(b) Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional-selection criteria. However, geographic proximity shall take precedent over seeding;
(c) Teams from the same conference shall not play one another in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained; and
(d) The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria shall be selected as the host institution, provided geographic proximity is maintained.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2011, 01:33:08 PM
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 07, 2011, 12:46:03 PM
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 07, 2011, 11:33:05 AM
In both cases, the NCAA screwed someone becuase of $$. One is not more justifiable than the other...Rochester is hosting for the same reason Wooster is, and neither one deserved it.
Again. Wooster lost TWO games. Both to teams ranked in the top 25 at the time. Both of whom had strong cases to make the NCAA tournament and one did make the tournament. Wooster has been the #1 team in the GL Region all season. And they also just happen to have one of the largest gyms in D3 basketball as Timken seats 3,400 people. They are very much deserving hosts!
I agree with ScotsFan and I think the committee did a decent job of keeping top 8-10 teams away from each other. Whitworth is happy to be playing ANYWHERE in mid March. Most Whitworth fans accept the $ considerations, some do not. Having a top ranked team makes the pill a bit more bitter and some grace to vent is in order. My only hope this go around was in the women's budget and the men's budget having some similiarity in profiles. Didn't happen...move on.
One thing I think many fans do not get is the fact that there is no seeds in our tournament. Wooster and Whitworth if geography and facility was equal, might even be a coin flip.
Nicely said. +k for you. I don't care about hearing that Whitworth has been screwed out of hosting. Whitworth is clearly deserving and no one is disputing the fact that the only reason they aren't hosting this weekend is because they are geographically isolated. I just don't like hearing Rat continue to harp on his opinion that Wooster isn't a deserving choice to host, because they most certainly are.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
Here is the bylaw we all talk about but probably have never read:
31.3.4.1 Pairings and Site Selection.
The following criteria will be used for pairings and site selections: (Adopted: 4/13/10)
(a) Once selected, teams shall be grouped in clusters according to natural-geographic proximity. Teams shall then be paired according to geographic proximity. A team may be moved to numerically balance the bracket if geographic proximity is maintained. Teams shall be paired and eligible according to geographic proximity (within 500 miles). An exception may be granted when there are not enough teams within the 500-mile radius to fill the region;
(b) Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional-selection criteria. However, geographic proximity shall take precedent over seeding;
(c) Teams from the same conference shall not play one another in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained; and
(d) The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria shall be selected as the host institution, provided geographic proximity is maintained.
Pretty big may. And even if It does happen, (D) has the geo in it as well.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 07, 2011, 07:54:57 PM
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
Here is the bylaw we all talk about but probably have never read:
31.3.4.1 Pairings and Site Selection.
The following criteria will be used for pairings and site selections: (Adopted: 4/13/10)
(a) Once selected, teams shall be grouped in clusters according to natural-geographic proximity. Teams shall then be paired according to geographic proximity. A team may be moved to numerically balance the bracket if geographic proximity is maintained. Teams shall be paired and eligible according to geographic proximity (within 500 miles). An exception may be granted when there are not enough teams within the 500-mile radius to fill the region;
(b) Teams may be seeded on a regional basis using the regional-selection criteria. However, geographic proximity shall take precedent over seeding;
(c) Teams from the same conference shall not play one another in the first round as long as geographic proximity is maintained; and
(d) The highest-seeded team that meets all selection criteria shall be selected as the host institution, provided geographic proximity is maintained.
Pretty big may. And even if It does happen, (D) has the geo in it as well.
'Geographic proximity' (i.e., no flights if at all possible) appears in EVERY subsection. It is no mystery that the bottom line is the bottom line.
It IS a shame that Whitworth is a victim of this, but (barring a 'perfect storm' like Puget Sound in 2004) it IS the reality of D3. We could hope that D1 will be more generous with their March Madness billions, but we could also hope for a cure for cancer and the common cold! :P
"By-law 31"
I like the way that D-Mac has characterized the situation.
Kinda reminds you of that place out near Las Vegas where strange things have happened.
Things can disappear out there.
Quote from: Bengalsrule on March 07, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 07, 2011, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2011, 10:36:52 AM
NCAA championship programs are contracted out to a company called IMG College. There's your mistake-makers.
May need to change name to OMG College or Whoopsie U
Cant wait to see what they are selling at Rochester Friday. The old program with no Wells team picture, Randolphs' team picture on the Randolph - Macon team page etc. or a "New" Program???
Thank God they got Buffalo State right! ;)
Yes, but if they print a new program for the Sectionals they may get the others right and Buffalo State wrong. :D
Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2011, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on March 07, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 07, 2011, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2011, 10:36:52 AM
NCAA championship programs are contracted out to a company called IMG College. There's your mistake-makers.
May need to change name to OMG College or Whoopsie U
Cant wait to see what they are selling at Rochester Friday. The old program with no Wells team picture, Randolphs' team picture on the Randolph - Macon team page etc. or a "New" Program???
Thank God they got Buffalo State right! ;)
Yes, but if they print a new program for the Sectionals they may get the others right and Buffalo State wrong. :D
It would be nice if they do print new ones that they at least provide enough to not sell out before the 2nd game even starts on Friday night. That's what happened in Wooster last weekend. I wouldn't know what mistakes were made because when I went to go purchase one right after the Manchester/Bethany game had ended, they had already sold out all the programs the NCAA had shipped to Wooster?! ::)
So, apparently whoever had responsibility for the programs never considered to check the capacity of the host schools' gyms, count the number of games played at each site and do some simple addition. ???
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 07, 2011, 08:51:46 PM
"By-law 31"
I like the way that D-Mac has characterized the situation.
Kinda reminds you of that place out near Las Vegas where strange things have happened.
Things can disappear out there.
Yes, mostly peoples money. :'(
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 07, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
Simple - UWSP women and men had the chance to host the sectional... and it was decided the women would get the nod (from this experience we now alternate the hosting opportunities by round and by year); Lawrence's gym was too small and the other team was going to fly anyway... so they shipped everyone out to Puget Sound.
It isn't the perfect scenario... but it happened.
I'm surprised by this problem in the senario. Lawrence hosted the sectional in 2006 when they were the only undefeated team in the country. They had to split the session and clear out the gym but they did host that sectional. It was just one more flight to have Puget Sound host than Lawrence (Sul Ross State was the other team) so maybe the NCAA was more lenient on the geographic proximity. This year it would be two more flights to have Whitworth host.
Yes. In 2004 Lawrence's gym was considered too small. They did change their mind in later years.
There had not really been frequent split-session sectionals before 2006.
Of course, the benefits for the NWC schools being in D-3 must outweigh the inconvenience of having issues in hosting games in the tournament in any sport. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in D-3. Certainly, they knew going in how the NCAA factors in hosting for D-3.
Champions beat anyone anywhere anytime anyplace.
Quote from: magicman on March 07, 2011, 10:22:13 PM
Quote from: Bengalsrule on March 07, 2011, 02:11:29 PM
Quote from: iwumichigander on March 07, 2011, 01:16:55 PM
Quote from: Just Bill on March 07, 2011, 10:36:52 AM
NCAA championship programs are contracted out to a company called IMG College. There's your mistake-makers.
May need to change name to OMG College or Whoopsie U
Cant wait to see what they are selling at Rochester Friday. The old program with no Wells team picture, Randolphs' team picture on the Randolph - Macon team page etc. or a "New" Program???
Thank God they got Buffalo State right! ;)
Yes, but if they print a new program for the Sectionals they may get the others right and Buffalo State wrong. :D
Horrible thought magicman..horrible thought! I'm glad I got 1 last week! ;). They had a bunch left (sales probably got hurt by since Ramapo got knocked out Friday)
Quote from: smedindy on March 08, 2011, 01:13:19 AM
Of course, the benefits for the NWC schools being in D-3 must outweigh the inconvenience of having issues in hosting games in the tournament in any sport. Otherwise, they wouldn't be in D-3. Certainly, they knew going in how the NCAA factors in hosting for D-3.
Champions beat anyone anywhere anytime anyplace.
In part, because of their geographical hosting advantage.
I don't think they make new ones for sectionals. I wasted my $5 to get one last weekend in Mequon and there were plenty available. Apparently, kids at Concordia like to read as little as possible! ;D :D ;) :) ::) :P
Wooster Sectional
#1 Whitworth
#5 Wooster
#11 Marietta
RV Cabrini (3)
Williams Sectional
#4 Williams
#9 Amherst
#10 Virginia Wesleyan
RV Rhode Island College (13)
Augustana Sectional
#3 Stevens Point
#7 Augustana
#8 St. Thomas
RV Mary Hardin-Baylor (3)
Rochester Sectional
#2 Middlebury
#13 St. Mary's (Md)
#17 Rochester
RV Buffalo State (2)
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 08, 2011, 02:17:54 AM
Wooster Sectional
#1 Whitworth
#5 Wooster
#11 Marietta
RV Cabrini (3)
Williams Sectional
#4 Williams
#9 Amherst
#10 Virginia Wesleyan
RV Rhode Island College (13)
Augustana Sectional
#3 Stevens Point
#7 Augustana
#8 St. Thomas
RV Mary Hardin-Baylor (3)
Rochester Sectional
#2 Middlebury
#13 St. Mary's (Md)
#17 Rochester
RV Buffalo State (2)
Thanks +1. With each sectional having 1 unranked team, we can then look at the remaining 3 teams and make a case for toughest/strongest bracket.
Wooster sectional rankings add up to: 17
Williams sectional rankings add up to: 23
Augustana sectional rankings add up to: 18
Rochester sectional rankings add up to: 32
Obviously, Rochester gets the weakest. The other 3 are very evenly matched. The UW-SP game is the tightest matchup. NESCAC teams get serious challenges (Husson game noted).
Will any unranked teams crack final 8?
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 08, 2011, 10:36:18 AM
Will any unranked teams crack final 8?
I can see any of the unranked teams winning their games if the right situation presents itself. Obviously they're all underdogs, but I don't think we've got any slouches this year.
My money's on Buffalo State. I was impressed with their second round game. They aren't playing against the top ranked host like 2 of the other unranked teams (RIC is playing Amherst as opposed to Williams). I don't know how well they will travel but it should be as close to a home game as they can get at this point in the tourney. Everything looks to be falling into place for the Bengals, including a game against Middlebury AWAY from Middlebury's home court if they can knock off St. Mary's...not a bad deal.
If people want to hear more about all the Northeast games tune in to Sports Flash on WXIN in Providence Thursday from 4-6pm. The Head Coaches from WPI, UMASS Dartmouth, Williams, RIC, Amherst, Middlebury, and Pat Coleman will all be on. With a few other guest as well.
You can listen online at www.ricradio.org. And call in at 401-456-8787 if you want to talk basketball.
Quote from: (509)Rat on March 08, 2011, 11:54:21 AM
My money's on Buffalo State. I was impressed with their second round game. They aren't playing against the top ranked host like 2 of the other unranked teams (RIC is playing Amherst as opposed to Williams). I don't know how well they will travel but it should be as close to a home game as they can get at this point in the tourney. Everything looks to be falling into place for the Bengals, including a game against Middlebury AWAY from Middlebury's home court if they can knock off St. Mary's...not a bad deal.
(509) Rat if u are ever in Buffalo your first 3 drinks are on me. I love your prediction!! As far as how we will travel, I would be surprised if we didnt use our entire allotment of 274 tickets. 74 miles from Buff State to U of R. (beats the heck out of the 374 from Buff state to Ramapo) :'(.
We were in Oswego (145 miles from Buff State) for 2 games (SUNYAC semis-finals, 2 weekends ago) and then Ramapo this past weekend. It doesnt get any closer than this. Heck Rochester native - Norman Simmons', friends/family went to U of R today and bought 45 tickets...in the U of R section (U of R is on spring break)!
Tommorrow the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle is doing a story on Jake Simmons (you may have read his story that was in the Buffalo News 3 weeks ago and copied by Pat Coleman to the D3Hoops "what we are reading" page). I doubt there is a better Rags to riches story in Div 3 sports this year. Jake grew up less than a mile from the U of R.
I sure hope that we make your prediction true. ;) Not a bad deal at all!! :D
According to the UWSP website, the 1st game is at 5 pm/6 pm est. The scoreboard here has the game at 6:30 est. I know they are clearing the gym out between games. The Augie game is listed correctly at 8 pm/9 pm est.
Game times are 5:00 and 8:00 PM CST.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2011, 05:51:39 PM
According to the UWSP website, the 1st game is at 5 pm/6 pm est. The scoreboard here has the game at 6:30 est. I know they are clearing the gym out between games. The Augie game is listed correctly at 8 pm/9 pm est.
Are they really clearing the gym between games? Two separate admissions?
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 10, 2011, 08:52:26 AM
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2011, 05:51:39 PM
According to the UWSP website, the 1st game is at 5 pm/6 pm est. The scoreboard here has the game at 6:30 est. I know they are clearing the gym out between games. The Augie game is listed correctly at 8 pm/9 pm est.
Are they really clearing the gym between games? Two separate admissions?
Most likely...that's how it was done last year when EMU hosted a weekend of the tourney. NCAAs gotta make that money!!! :o
Quote from: Wooster Booster on March 10, 2011, 08:52:26 AM
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 09, 2011, 05:51:39 PM
According to the UWSP website, the 1st game is at 5 pm/6 pm est. The scoreboard here has the game at 6:30 est. I know they are clearing the gym out between games. The Augie game is listed correctly at 8 pm/9 pm est.
Are they really clearing the gym between games? Two separate admissions?
Very common when the demand is expected to be very high. It allows each team to get more of their fans in the door.
I wonder if that's the NCAA's choice, or the host school's? They've never cleared the gym at Wooster, one ticket gets you the doubleheader. If they did do that, the first game would be played before 300 people instead of 2,000.
Host school's choice. With UWSP and St. Thomas playing the first game I imagine they are expecting enough demand to justify it. UWSP brought 700-800 to Mequon last weekend by themselves.
The biggest reason to do it is it gets the most possible home fans in the door. If you have 1,800 seats and you do one admission, the home team gets 900 seats and each visitor gets 300. There's a good chance the visitors will sell all or most of that allotment so there won't be many or any extras for the home fans to scoop up.
If you split the admission, the home team will start with 900 seats, but there's a much greater chance of the opponent not selling out and returning tickets back to the home team. In that case, even if your opponent sells 500 tickets, that's 400 more tickets the host school can sell to their fans.
Here is the release from Augustana for their reasons why they decided to split the games Friday:
http://www.augustana.edu/x33482.xml
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 10, 2011, 11:56:52 AM
Here is the release from Augustana for their reasons why they decided to split the games Friday:
http://www.augustana.edu/x33482.xml
But they're still charging full price for tickets, even though you get half the basketball.
Never had to clear the gym at Wooster, I suspect. If there was a chance of selling significantly more than 3,000 tickets or whatever Timken officially holds, they might do it.
It's true -- the NCAA prices seem to hold for one-game or two-game sessions. But Hoops Fan, you have to remember that if they didn't make it two separate sessions, a bunch of people would get 0% of the basketball.
Just offhand, I know they have had split-session tournament games at Lawrence, Brockport State, and even last year at UW-Stevens Point.
Just think if Wooster hosted a sectional with Witt, Illinois Welseyan and Hope. I bet they'd be splitting sessions.
Also... as much as I wished people would stick around for the second game or come early for the first game... those buying tickets have just their game in mind. So, it isn't like people are getting ripped off on tickets wanting to see both games. Yes... there may be some, but I like the idea that Augustana understands there are going to be a lot from UST and UWSP (maybe UMHB as well) that are going to want to see their games and having half the seats dedicated to the home school and the other half to the remaining three for a normal double-header... seems unfair.
I completely understand the concept of the split session. UWSP and UST get 50% each of the available tickets for the first game. What exactly is the timeline of ticket distribution?
I mean, do UWSP and UST fans have exclusive rights to 1000 tickets each for, say, 3 days, and then the returned tickets go on sale for MHB and Augie on Thursday? Are there any tickets available at Augie for the 1st game prior to that? If I'm a fan of a team of the 2nd game, do I have to wait? Do I have to call UWSP or UST ticket office to get a ticket for the first game? Are there a few tickets set aside for neutral (or local) fans from the outset?
I remember talking to a friend of mine who went to Hope when La Crosse played there. The Eagles lost in the 1st round and La Crosse fans weren't even able to buy a ticket for the 2nd round matchup of Hope vs. Calvin. As a neutral fan, if I'm over there already, I'd love to see that game. I guess they could've just lied and said they were a fan of Hope or Calvin.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 10, 2011, 12:16:26 PM
Just think if Wooster hosted a sectional with Witt, Illinois Welseyan and Hope. I bet they'd be splitting sessions.
No way. Witt fans have never been allowed to cross the border into Wayne County. We have our pride. ;)
Seriously, you might be right, but with our big gym it's not a certainty. I'd be disappointed if I didn't get to see both games; I see this as a heck of a sectional.
I hear you but Point's gym (2,700) is almost as big as yours and they've done it so I wouldn't call it shocking if you had the right opponents.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 10, 2011, 01:21:21 PM
I remember talking to a friend of mine who went to Hope when La Crosse played there. The Eagles lost in the 1st round and La Crosse fans weren't even able to buy a ticket for the 2nd round matchup of Hope vs. Calvin. As a neutral fan, if I'm over there already, I'd love to see that game. I guess they could've just lied and said they were a fan of Hope or Calvin.
Are you positive the situation was as cut and dried as that sounds? I seem to recall (in that situation and others like it) that second round tickets were made available to Calvin season ticket holders, students and faculty immediately following the Calvin/LaX game and I'm sure it worked the same way for those with Hope allegiances after their game.
My guess is that your friends was turned away the night of the first round games but should have been able to get tickets once they were available to the general public (probably the next morning).
I'm going down to support the Pointers and bought my tickets Tuesday, but they weren't selling tickets to the Aug/MHB game. I'd love to see the second game to see who Point plays on Saturday, but I doubt many tickets will be available by the time I get there. I'm disappointed that I can't even call the ticket office and buy a pair. Point emptied the gym during last years games that they hosted.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 10, 2011, 12:14:37 PM
Never had to clear the gym at Wooster, I suspect. If there was a chance of selling significantly more than 3,000 tickets or whatever Timken officially holds, they might do it.
It's true -- the NCAA prices seem to hold for one-game or two-game sessions. But Hoops Fan, you have to remember that if they didn't make it two separate sessions, a bunch of people would get 0% of the basketball.
Just offhand, I know they have had split-session tournament games at Lawrence, Brockport State, and even last year at UW-Stevens Point.
Right - better to have an opportunity to get tickets than none! And, remember the committee must approve any plan for split session tickets. It is not just a host decision; and, the visiting teams usually have an opportunity to voice their thoughts on the need/want for a split session.
Frodo-
I would post a message on the CCIW page asking someone if they can buy two tickets for you. They seem to be swell peoples over there. When IWU went to Appleton for the 2nd weekend games a few years ago, I asked on that board and had a few posters willing to pick me up a ticker or two.
Otherwise, the article says tickets go back on sale Friday at 3:30. Get down there early and then go grab a bite to eat!
I guess that there were about 200 tickets sold to UMHB fans at the McMurry game, judging by the video.
If UMHB has 100 fans at Augie, then I think that they have done a good job.
I have not heard whether there is a caravan of students who will carpool to Rock Island.
Quote from: Dave 'd-mac' McHugh on March 10, 2011, 12:19:01 PM
Also... as much as I wished people would stick around for the second game or come early for the first game... those buying tickets have just their game in mind.
Yeah, I imagine I'm in a lonely boat when I travel to see teams strictly because they play d3 basketball nearby. Still, it would be nice to sell double session tickets or something for the few who want to see both games. $14 for two playoff games really isn't that much if you really wanted to see both - I'm just cheap.
sounds like a pathetic money grab to me, going after the local fans who would like to stay for both games.
I've been part of a sectionals that did it both ways.
When we played a single session we ultimately left 300-400 people locked out of the gym and the dozens of angry e-mails, critical newspaper articles and loss of community support hurt for an extended period of time.
When we played a split session, we had TWO complaint e-mails from individuals who were upset about paying two admissions for two games.
I know it's just one person's experience in one particular time and place, but if it's reasonable to do so at all, I'd split the sessions everytime.
What we have done in the past when hosting baseball we offered single session and all day tickets. That way, the die-hards were able to see both sessions and those that wanted just to see their teams play were both treated fairly.
When we hosted the first round of the women's playoffs this year, one admission got both games. With teams traveling from La. and Oregon, along with Oxy and Chapman, there was no worry regarding not having enough seating. Our gym hold around 2,400 or so. Our one game first rounder with Redlands was near capacity, and last year's with CMS was standing room only.
I think each host needs to make a decision based on seating capacity versus anticipated
attendance. IMHO
Not really NCAA D-III Tournament related, but I'm trying to put it in front of multiple eyeballs.
Starting March 17, Jacob Tucker of Illinois College will be in an internet vote to get into the college slam dunk contest. It's him vs. a player from an NAIA school. VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!
http://bit.ly/ie76Dj
http://www.facebook.com/collegeslam
Quote from: Just Bill on March 11, 2011, 10:35:59 AM
Not really NCAA D-III Tournament related, but I'm trying to put it in front of multiple eyeballs.
Starting March 17, Jacob Tucker of Illinois College will be in an internet vote to get into the college slam dunk contest. It's him vs. a player from an NAIA school. VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!
http://bit.ly/ie76Dj
http://www.facebook.com/collegeslam
Let's hope d3 fans can band together and get one of our own into this thing. As a 5'11" white guy, he's got to go in as the favorite.
Quote from: Just Bill on March 11, 2011, 10:01:05 AM
I've been part of a sectionals that did it both ways.
When we played a single session we ultimately left 300-400 people locked out of the gym and the dozens of angry e-mails, critical newspaper articles and loss of community support hurt for an extended period of time.
When we played a split session, we had TWO complaint e-mails from individuals who were upset about paying two admissions for two games.
I know it's just one person's experience in one particular time and place, but if it's reasonable to do so at all, I'd split the sessions everytime.
Thanks for the reminder -- there is a real chance that having one admission leaves people out. St. Thomas could have split admission in the first round, to be honest, because there was enough demand to sell another hundred tickets or so.
Bu Bu But last week we were told that we should be happy seeing games on the internet! Now that option isnt good enough? gotcha
its really a moot discussion until the attendance figures are in the door tonight
Yeah -- I saw you pinned that on me but I don't see where I actually said that. That might have been Dave.
On this weeks effiency worksheet I only have one game I might consider a tossup based on statistical efficiency...........
Augustana and Mary Hardin-Baylor but even then I think Augie is the favorite. We'll see how that plays out, ASC vs midwest have not worked out well in the past for the ASC schools. This is one of only 3 games I have with a significant difference in pace of play, where MHB games have about 10 more possessions per game.
Otherwise I think everyone's favorites are pretty comfortable favorites, I would characterize 4 teams as big favorites tonight.
Whitworth over Marietta
Amherst over Rhode Island Coll
St. Mary's over Buffalo St.
Wooster over Cabrini
The other fav's UWSP, Williams, Middlebury and Augie.
The surprising one to me was Whitworth mostly due to the wide margin. Marietta just hasn't rated well using eff's and could have lost either of their games last week.
I had never done a full blow Efficiency rating for the whole tournament, so far the higher rated teams went 22-7 and 13-3. Four of the 10 losses came in statistical tossups.
Amherst is shooting the lights out and dominating the boards, but RIC is only 9 back. They're hanging in there.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 06:45:28 PM
Amherst is shooting the lights out and dominating the boards, but RIC is only 9 back. They're hanging in there.
Sounds like the Whitworth vs Marietta game.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2011, 06:48:08 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 06:45:28 PM
Amherst is shooting the lights out and dominating the boards, but RIC is only 9 back. They're hanging in there.
Sounds like the Whitworth vs Marietta game.
Not even close. The stats from Marietta are much closer. Amherst has a 45-20 rebound advantage and RIC is only shooting 20% from deep (to Amherst's 40%). RIC now only down 5.
Man, the refs are really trying to keep this game close. Calling tight fouls on Amherst, which is disrupting the rhythm quite a bit. It's not out of bounds, but they're not exactly letting the players decide the game on the floor.
RIC is crashing the boards now and the Williams crowd is all over Amherst. RIC leads by one.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 06:54:39 PM
Man, the refs are really trying to keep this game close. Calling tight fouls on Amherst, which is disrupting the rhythm quite a bit. It's not out of bounds, but they're not exactly letting the players decide the game on the floor.
Ok, now THAT sounds like the Whitworth game
Buff State has stormed back, down just four with six to play.
St. Thomas still maintaining a lead. Every time Point gets close, the Tommies seem to nail a three.
Whitworth is up 17 with just over a minute to go. This one's basically over.
Amherst wins. Whitworth wins. St. Mary's up 10 with a minute to go.
St. Mary's wins.
Point is down 4? with just a few minutes to go.
Tommies 64-61; 2:19 left; now 1:35 left; now 1:11 left Pointer ball.
Last Tommie FG was at 7:03 to go up 61-50!
Tommies ball 0:46 left, leading 64-61.
UST Nicolai misses a 3FG. 0:28.
UWSP Hurd hits a 3FG. Tied at 64 0:18 left.
UST -- Nicolai hits a 2FG. 66-64 UST; 0:04.
Nicolai hits a layup with two seconds to go. Tommies by 2. Point needs a Hill-Laetner moment.
What a game
St. Thomas wins. I've lost my first Final Four team.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 07:34:11 PM
St. Thomas wins. I've lost my first Final Four team.
I lost my national champion.
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 11, 2011, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 07:34:11 PM
St. Thomas wins. I've lost my first Final Four team.
I lost my national champion.
I lost the whole right side of my bracket.
I lost Randy Mac early. Tonight I lost (champion) UWSP. I am officially toast.
And I was right on the fringes of contention, with 49 points. :(
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 07:34:11 PM
St. Thomas wins. I've lost my first Final Four team.
Congrats St. Thomas. That's an upset in my book.
I'm 2-4 thus far on my Final Eight.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 11, 2011, 07:38:01 PM
Quote from: kiltedbryan on March 11, 2011, 07:35:43 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 07:34:11 PM
St. Thomas wins. I've lost my first Final Four team.
I lost my national champion.
I lost the whole right side of my bracket.
I lost my alma mater.
And I was forced to follow just the live stats on an old phone without any other internet access.
Troy Whittington for Williams and Nate Balch for Wooster both have two quick fouls.
Cabrini's quickness is giving COW some problems; Williams doesn't have the same issue.
Cory Lemons is tearing Wooster apart, but the Scots probably have too many weapons.
Justin Hallowell has hit three long threes. Wooster just has so many options for scoring. Wow. This is a great game.
Middlebury is fun to watch. Rochester is up 3, but hopefully Middlebury can settle down - lots of nerves out there right now.
Midd! Seriously, Locke and Sharry - feed the post! Seriously.
Cabrini was way down, but brought it back to within seven. They won't go away.
It's one on five in Rochester, but DiBartelameo is still winning.
Cabrini dictated the pace, but Wooster did almost a game's worth of scoring to lead at the half 48-36.
Williams did a little triage near the end to pull within seven against VA Wesleyan, 27-34.
Rochester is up in a messy game 28-24.
All three games at the half.
All three games are close now and getting exciting - hard to tell which one to turn the volume on for.
Farello for Cabrini just got his fourth foul with a lot of time left. Wooster up ten. This will be a critical five minutes if Cabrini wants to stay in this.
As good as all these games are, UConn and Syracuse are tied with 4 seconds to go in NY.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 09:04:34 PM
As good as all these games are, UConn and Syracuse are tied with 4 seconds to go in NY.
Going to OT. Kemba Walker is incredible.
Ephs up three. Wooster's running away with it (up 17). Middlebury up 5.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 09:04:34 PM
As good as all these games are, UConn and Syracuse are tied with 4 seconds to go in NY.
-1 k. :o
Williams up 6 with 53 seconds to go.
Quote from: nwhoops1903 on March 11, 2011, 09:14:34 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 11, 2011, 09:04:34 PM
As good as all these games are, UConn and Syracuse are tied with 4 seconds to go in NY.
-1 k.
UConn won four games in four days at MSG in the BigEast to make the tournament final. That's amazing.
Williams wins. Middlebury up 8 with 20 seconds to go.
The right side of my bracket is completely done, with almost as many choices wrong (14) as right (15). But on the left side I've only missed one game--I had NCWC beating F&M in Round 1. Oh well.
If Augie wins I'll have 6 of the final 8 remaining with no chance of my bracket winning. :-\
Quote from: sac on March 11, 2011, 09:39:04 PM
If Augie wins I'll have 6 of the final 8 remaining with no chance of my bracket winning.
I'm sitting at 5 out of 8, but three of the final four still alive and both of my finalists.
One half left for tonight.
MHB hanging tough. Down 11.
They've emptied the benches. Augie wins.
The lowest-ranked team of the final 8 is #13.
The eight quarterfinalists have combined to lose 20 games this season...and six of those were to other quarterfinalists. Against the rest of the world, these 8 teams have a combined record of 210-14 (.938). The average overall record among the group is 27-2.5.
Five of the eight won or shared their conference championship and won their conference tournament; the other three are all in the same conference.
#1 at #5
#9 at #4 (and arch-rivals to boot)
#8 at #7
#2 vs. #13 on a neutral floor
Gonna be some hot hoops tomorrow!
7 of 8 left 4 me, but the 1, UW-SP, was 2 win it all.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 11, 2011, 10:48:12 PM
The lowest-ranked team of the final 8 is #13.
The eight quarterfinalists have combined to lose 20 games this season...and six of those were to other quarterfinalists. Against the rest of the world, these 8 teams have a combined record of 210-14 (.938). The average overall record among the group is 27-2.5.
Five of the eight won or shared their conference championship and won their conference tournament; the other three are all in the same conference.
#1 at #5
#9 at #4 (and arch-rivals to boot)
#8 at #7
#2 vs. #13 on a neutral floor
Gonna be some hot hoops tomorrow!
Good stuff David!
#1 at #5 = 6 Loser of this game might be #3 final poll.
#9 at #4 = 13 Old Friends :)
#8 at #7 = 15 Quality
#2 vs. #13 = 15 Cinderella is big and strong
Hats off to NESCAC 3. Impressive accomplishment.
Well, with Point out, I'm rooting for history.
Let's have an "All West of the Mississippi River" Final...Whitworth vs. St. Thomas.
I've always been in the school of thought to cheer for the team that beat you so it makes you look good and say, "Hey, we lost to the National Champs!"
Of course Point WAS the National Champs...I have nothing against St. Thomas or Whitworth. ;D
According to the rankings, looks like 7 of 8 games were chalk. The one that wasn't...Point losing. Man, that hurts.
After all the 'insanity' of the season (trying to cast Poster's Polls votes from 10-25 was interesting), the Elite Eight is pretty much as chalk as these things get.
Quote from: smedindy on March 12, 2011, 11:26:53 AM
After all the 'insanity' of the season (trying to cast Poster's Polls votes from 10-25 was interesting), the Elite Eight is pretty much as chalk as these things get.
Two things influenced the tournament over past years.
A little better geographic balance in the 'power teams' in D3 this year, the GL, MW and West just didn't have the same number of strong teams as they've had in recent seasons.
...and the committee seems to have done an excellent job spreading the best teams out through the brackets. (remember the 'final 4' bracket at Wheaton a couple years ago in the Sweet 16)
Efficiency ratings went 8-0 last night.
For today, Whitworth and Middlebury are pretty good favorites.
For Wooster the question is how much difference will home court make. Whitworth is by far the most efficient offensive team Wooster has faced, while Wooster's defensive efficiency is pretty good a good chunk of it comes from dominating the bottom half of the NCAC, which is not good.
Middlebury is the best defensive efficiency team remaining, and that looks like the difference vs St. Mary's. As a side, I'll be interested to see what the crowd is for this true neutral court game between two teams a long way from home.
Augie/St. Thomas is a statistical toss up, EFF says St. Thomas is a very slight favorite over Augustana, enough to make me think the difference will be home court for Augie. Eff wise St. Thomas is almost a clone to Hope, only slighty better on D. This game could be very similar to that one. We'll see.
Williams and Amherst is also a statistical toss-up. Amherst has performed very well in the tournament which actually moved their rating above Williams by only a point, which would make them a very slight favorite. Home court could prove the difference again in this one.
Middlebury had a vocal student contingent last night, and I believe they were staying overnight. And I'd expect more kids to have made the trip today.
Was surprised by the number of St. Mary's fans last night. No students, though; all adults. But the were loud, too. Should be a spirited gym.
St. Mary's looked really tough last night. Athletic, fast, long. There will be a lot of pressure on the Midd guards, and the bigs need to stay out of foul trouble and continue to be enforcers inside. If that happens, Midd wins. If not, St. Mary's is going to Salem.
Go Panthers!
Regardless of who pulls out the Augie/St. Thomas game, this Final 4 is solid and very interesting.
Middlebury, Williams, Wooster and......
Very excited for two NESCACs in the Final Four!!! Wooster will be looking for payback vs. Williams after 2003. As an Eph fan, I can tell the St. Thomas / Auggie fans, Middlebury is NOT fun to play against, probably the best defensive team I've seen in D-3, and arguably the best since those ridiculously stingy Plattesville teams from back in the day. Just seems almost impossible to have game against them that goes past the 60's.
I am hoping the Williams / Midd fans can gang up and support each other in the semis, and I would absolutely LOVE to see an all-NESCAC final. Have two teams from the same conference ever faced off in the final?
Won't be easy, of course, as Wooster seems to playing very, very tough right now, an extremely veteran team.
Go Ephs!
I got 3 of 4 correct. What are the chances this is my year prognostication-wise?
I've got a better than average shot at the Fantasy league now, as well.
I got 3/4 as well, but I had Stevens Point in the final ... Williams winning, of course.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 12, 2011, 09:24:14 PM
I got 3/4 as well, but I had Stevens Point in the final ... Williams winning, of course.
I had Williams-Middlebury in the final. Not sure who I picked to win - I think it was Williams.
I only got to see the first five minutes of the Woo-Whit game tonight. I thought for sure Wooster was doomed. Glad they pulled it out.
Wooster can look forward to a 6.5-7 hour drive down the entire length of West Virginia. The other three teams have to make last minute reservations to fly to Roanoke.
Not sure if/where the advantage lies there.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 12, 2011, 09:32:23 PM
Wooster can look forward to a 6.5-7 hour drive down the entire length of West Virginia. The other three teams have to make last minute reservations to fly to Roanoke.
Not sure if/where the advantage lies there.
They don't have to drive, they can fly if the college is willing to foot the bill.
The St. Mary's/Middlebury attendance is listed at 174
This is why neutral site Sectional's is just a bad idea all around. :-[
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2011, 08:51:46 PM
Regardless of who pulls out the Augie/St. Thomas game, this Final 4 is solid and very interesting.
Middlebury, Williams, Wooster and......
St. Thomas
Really nice looking final 4.
My Final Four is St. Thomas, Middlebury, Whitworth and Williams. I had St. Thomas playing Whitworth in the final and I have the Tommies winning it all. I had 12 of the Sweet 16, and 7 of the Great 8. St. Mary's was the team I didn't have as I picked Randy-Macon to beat them in the 2nd round. I have to be in pretty good shape.
I picked nine of 16 in the women's bracket without having seen a game or looked at records during the year. I feel like that's pretty good. Plus I have Amherst winning it all and they're still alive.
As for the men, I've missed 15 total games so far - most of them in that St. Thomas bracket. If we have an all-NESCAC final I might be in good shape.
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2011, 04:24:07 PM
Efficiency ratings went 8-0 last night.
Are you sure? I thought SP had the highest efficiency in the tournament.
... Not that it mattered when they shot just 50% from the line and lost by two...
I, too, had 7 of 8 right into the Elite 8 and have all four left in the Final 4...I have UST beating Wooster in the title game. (Of course, I pick UST to win it all every year, every sport)
It looks like a very very good final quartet...pretty wide open, I think, with all four teams having a legitimate shot at winning it. Gonna be some great hoops!!
Quote from: PointSpecial on March 12, 2011, 10:09:02 PM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2011, 04:24:07 PM
Efficiency ratings went 8-0 last night.
Are you sure? I thought SP had the highest efficiency in the tournament.
... Not that it mattered when they shot just 50% from the line and lost by two...
My mistake, 7-1 last night. 2-2 tonight.
I think Williams will come out to be a marginal favorite next weekend over Middlebury in the finals. Should be 2 close matchups though.
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2011, 09:34:37 PM
The St. Mary's/Middlebury attendance is listed at 174
This is why neutral site Sectional's is just a bad idea all around. :-[
Except for a home team winning primarily because it wasn't a neutral-court contest. Or maybe because this neutral court was 8 hours away from the participants instead of 3 hours for geographical diversity.
Curious if any conference can top any of these. Since 1994, when NESCAC was first eligible to compete in the tourney:
(1) One NESCAC school has made six Final Fours (Williams)
(2) NESCAC has had two teams make the Final Four twice (Amherst/Williams 2004, Midd/Williams 2011)
(3) NESCAC has had five conference schools make the Final Four (Williams x 6, Amherst x 4, Trinity, Conn College, Midd)
(4) Two NESCAC schools have won national titles (Williams and Amherst) (WIAC I know can equal that one)
Since 2003, NESCAC has AVERAGED one Final Four team per year!
I realize that, in some (but certainly not all) years NESCAC teams have an easier path to the Final Four. No one can claim that this year, as Midd had to go on the road despite earning a top seed, and Williams had to beat two top-ten caliber teams. But even given that, that is a pretty damn impressive record over the last 17 years, and especially the last 9 years ...
Quote from: ronk on March 13, 2011, 12:22:15 AM
Quote from: sac on March 12, 2011, 09:34:37 PM
The St. Mary's/Middlebury attendance is listed at 174
This is why neutral site Sectional's is just a bad idea all around. :-[
Except for a home team winning primarily because it wasn't a neutral-court contest. Or maybe because this neutral court was 8 hours away from the participants instead of 3 hours for geographical diversity.
I'm not sure who was counting but there were considerably more than 174 at the Palestra last night!!
St. Thomas beat the defending National Champions, #3 Stevens Point and then topped #7 Augustana at Rock Island to advance. Both were ranked higher than the Tommies.
Not to take anything away from the NESCAC, but...
Williams beat two top ten teams AT HOME, both ranked lower than the #4 Ephs.
Middlebury was ranked #2 in the nation, so though not at home, they were probably favored in both games.
Again, the NESCAC is a very good conference, don't get me wrong! ;D
The NESCAC teams had the "easiest" draws IMO but I put easy in quotes because no matter what sectional you are in you had to beat equally talented teams to get to Salem. Everyone in the final 4 is more than deserving.
This Whitworth fan will now be rooting for a St Thomas v Wooster final though! :P
Couldn't disagree more.
Williams had the most difficult draw of the weekend--Va Wes and Amherst. Both of those teams are better than any that played at Wooster.
And Middlebury had to play on Rochester's home court, in front of their home crowd, followed by a very good St. Mary's squad, which dispatched the ODAC's RMC the week prior.
If Troy Whittington is not 100 percent in Salem, then Wooster gets a HUGE break and the Final Four is robbed of the nation's most dynamic player not being at full strength.
Midd-St. Thomas should be a great match-up. Of course, I'm with the Panthers. :)
Quote from: Bucket on March 13, 2011, 07:49:11 PM
Couldn't disagree more.
Williams had the most difficult draw of the weekend--Va Wes and Amherst. Both of those teams are better than any that played at Wooster.
Couldn't disagree more. :P
Are you suggesting WW is chopped liver? I mean, they were only the #1 team in the nation and all... ::)
Quote from: Bucket on March 13, 2011, 07:49:11 PM
If Troy Whittington is not 100 percent in Salem, then Wooster gets a HUGE break and the Final Four is robbed of the nation's most dynamic player not being at full strength.
Kind of like the HUGE break your Ephs received back in 2003 when Wooster's Bryan Nelson suffered a stress fracture in their Elite 8 game and basically played on one leg in their semi-final game and still took Williams to OT. Oh yeah, he was not only the top player for Wooster, he was also the National POY that year as well. So we Wooster fans know all too well about injuries to key players coming at the worst times of the season...
I think Middlebury had the easiest draw, especially when RMC got bounced. They just matched up better against St. Mary's.
I think the other three draws were pretty even. St. Thomas ended up with the toughest path, but that has more to do with matchups, which teams can't control.
I do think the Whitworth-Wooster game was the toughest thus far in terms of individual game matchups. That's not to say Williams-Amherst or St. Thomas-Augustana are chopped lived.
No one had an easy time of it, which is a welcome change from past years.
Again, Williams was playing at home against 2 lower ranked opponents while St. Thomas played two higher ranked opponents, both champions of two of the toughest conferences in the nation, and also the latter was in Rock Island on the road.
We can disagree about who had the toughest draw, as I think Whitworth, for example, should not have been number one entering the tourney, but the point I was making was not that the NESCAC teams had the TOUGHEST draw this year, but that no one can claim Williams (in particular) or Middlebury had an EASY road to the Final Four. The draws were reasonably close in difficulty this year, although we can quibble back and forth, and it is just incredible impressive that NESCAC, for the second time since 2004 (!), got two teams into the Final Four. I don't believe any other conference has had more than one in that same time period, although I could be mistaken. Again, while I acknowledge that in SOME years NESCAC teams have had an easier road than out West (for example, Williams last year had a pretty easy path to Salem due to the upset of Midd), I think the difference may be exaggerated because of the lack of respect for Northeast teams, and averaging one Final Four team per year, as a conference, since 2003 speaks for itself. And it's not as if the NESCAC schools, when they've made final fours during the Salem era, have acquitted themselves poorly ... five title game appearances, and two victories shows that the teams who made it, belonged there. Here is hoping for two and one more, respectively!
I feel like, by both Massey for sure, and sometimes on this board, the caliber of Northeast / New England hoops is underrated. There was a very deep reservoir of talent in New England this year and some teams like Bowdoin and Trinity would post gaudy records in other conferences. The NESCAC clearly had two of the top four (as has been demonstrated) teams in the country this year, and one other who was clearly a top ten squad and really just a half-step behind the two Final Four teams -- no other league had close to that kind of power at the top. And Trinity by the end of the year, I can testify, was playing really well to boot.
ScotsFan, I don't think Williams fans ever failed to acknowledge that we received a break in 2003 with Nelson seriously hurt (and he managed to dominate, anyway, tremendous, tremendous talent plus heart). Injuries are a big part of the game, especially this time of year. Karma has worked out for you, with our all-American post suffering a serious injury in the game prior to our semifinal battle, just like what happened to Nelson. If Troy plays (and I expect he will, though it is uncertain at this point, but short of risking permanent damage, he'll be out there, believe me), he certainly won't be close to one hundred percent ... just like Nelson wasn't. I really want the country to see what Troy can do when close-to-healthy, not just because of what he means to the Ephs, but because of how hard he has worked and how passionate he is about the game (just watch him in pre-game intros to get an idea, you can't fake that intensity). Ask the Stevens Point fans at last year's Final Four what they thought about him -- he is substantially better this year. Or ask the Virginia Wesleyan fans. But he can't catch a break ... sprained MCL, then ten staples in his head vs. Midd, now the serious hand injury. And he has played through all of it. At his best / healthiest, I've never seen a more dominant post presence in NESCAC, and certainly haven't seen a tougher kid, both mentally and physically.
I hope (and even, so long as Troy is at least out on the court, dare I say think) the Ephs will win, but if they don't, no excuses, as again, karma benefited us once vs. Wooster without a doubt, and now has evened out. So consider us square!
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 08:19:55 AM
We can disagree about who had the toughest draw, as I think Whitworth, for example, should not have been number one entering the tourney, but the point I was making was not that the NESCAC teams had the TOUGHEST draw this year, but that no one can claim Williams (in particular) or Middlebury had an EASY road to the Final Four. The draws were reasonably close in difficulty this year, although we can quibble back and forth, and it is just incredible impressive that NESCAC, for the second time since 2004 (!), got two teams into the Final Four. I don't believe any other conference has had more than one in that same time period, although I could be mistaken. Again, while I acknowledge that in SOME years NESCAC teams have had an easier road than out West (for example, Williams last year had a pretty easy path to Salem due to the upset of Midd), I think the difference may be exaggerated because of the lack of respect for Northeast teams, and averaging one Final Four team per year, as a conference, since 2003 speaks for itself. And it's not as if the NESCAC schools, when they've made final fours during the Salem era, have acquitted themselves poorly ... five title game appearances, and two victories shows that the teams who made it, belonged there. Here is hoping for two and one more, respectively!
I feel like, by both Massey for sure, and sometimes on this board, the caliber of Northeast / New England hoops is underrated. There was a very deep reservoir of talent in New England this year and some teams like Bowdoin and Trinity would post gaudy records in other conferences. The NESCAC clearly had two of the top four (as has been demonstrated) teams in the country this year, and one other who was clearly a top ten squad and really just a half-step behind the two Final Four teams -- no other league had close to that kind of power at the top. And Trinity by the end of the year, I can testify, was playing really well to boot.
ScotsFan, I don't think Williams fans ever failed to acknowledge that we received a break in 2003 with Nelson seriously hurt (and he managed to dominate, anyway, tremendous, tremendous talent plus heart). Injuries are a big part of the game, especially this time of year. Karma has worked out for you, with our all-American post suffering a serious injury in the game prior to our semifinal battle, just like what happened to Nelson. If Troy plays (and I expect he will, though it is uncertain at this point, but short of risking permanent damage, he'll be out there, believe me), he certainly won't be close to one hundred percent ... just like Nelson wasn't. I really want the country to see what Troy can do when close-to-healthy, not just because of what he means to the Ephs, but because of how hard he has worked and how passionate he is about the game (just watch him in pre-game intros to get an idea, you can't fake that intensity). Ask the Stevens Point fans at last year's Final Four what they thought about him -- he is substantially better this year. Or ask the Virginia Wesleyan fans. But he can't catch a break ... sprained MCL, then ten staples in his head vs. Midd, now the serious hand injury. And he has played through all of it. At his best / healthiest, I've never seen a more dominant post presence in NESCAC, and certainly haven't seen a tougher kid, both mentally and physically.
I hope (and even, so long as Troy is at least out on the court, dare I say think) the Ephs will win, but if they don't, no excuses, as again, karma benefited us once vs. Wooster without a doubt, and now has evened out. So consider us square!
Respectfully, nescac1, I need you to explain why you think that Massey underrates the Northeast Region. The Northeast Region has the most teams; the Northeast region teams are more likely than other Regions to play non-conference games in the 25-game season. The robustness of the number of non-conference opponents among the Northeast Region teams is greater than almost any single region, with the possible exception of the Mid-Atlantic. With the statistical modeling that Massey uses, I need more explanation concerning your thoughts on Massey's underrating the Northeast Region. Thank you.
I am no expert on Massey's methodology, so I can't comment on any methodological flaws. I just see his results, and they always seem skewed to Western teams (even some mediocre Western teams), especially teams that play WIAC, or play anyone who play WIAC. I am not sure where Massey had Williams, Midd and Amherst entering the tourney, but I feel confident those are two top three, and then a top ten, teams respectively, and I think the NCAA results bore that out ... where did Massey rank them? Basically, I am saying, whatever his methodology is, his results always seem to skew too much in favor of the West. But admittedly, I don't know enough about what that methodology is to comment beyond that.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 08:19:55 AM
ScotsFan, I don't think Williams fans ever failed to acknowledge that we received a break in 2003 with Nelson seriously hurt (and he managed to dominate, anyway, tremendous, tremendous talent plus heart). Injuries are a big part of the game, especially this time of year. Karma has worked out for you, with our all-American post suffering a serious injury in the game prior to our semifinal battle, just like what happened to Nelson. If Troy plays (and I expect he will, though it is uncertain at this point, but short of risking permanent damage, he'll be out there, believe me), he certainly won't be close to one hundred percent ... just like Nelson wasn't. I really want the country to see what Troy can do when close-to-healthy, not just because of what he means to the Ephs, but because of how hard he has worked and how passionate he is about the game (just watch him in pre-game intros to get an idea, you can't fake that intensity). Ask the Stevens Point fans at last year's Final Four what they thought about him -- he is substantially better this year. Or ask the Virginia Wesleyan fans. But he can't catch a break ... sprained MCL, then ten staples in his head vs. Midd, now the serious hand injury. And he has played through all of it. At his best / healthiest, I've never seen a more dominant post presence in NESCAC, and certainly haven't seen a tougher kid, both mentally and physically.
I hope (and even, so long as Troy is at least out on the court, dare I say think) the Ephs will win, but if they don't, no excuses, as again, karma benefited us once vs. Wooster without a doubt, and now has evened out. So consider us square!
nescac, trust me, I for one am hoping to see Troy play and have an impact on the game. Because I would rather see Wooster beat Williams at 100% as opposed to seeing the Scots beat a Williams team not at 100% and then have to hear the excuses about how different it would have been with a healthy Whittington.
I was just pointing out to you that, while it would be a break for Wooster, Williams was already the beneficiary of a big break from Wooster and a malfunctioning shot clock back in 2003. ;)
Thanks for the response, nescac1.
Many of us wonder about the preponderance of WIAC teams at the top of many Massey Ratings, but most fans outside the northeast believe that the NESCAC teams have an unfair advantage. The members of the entire conference overwhelm their weaker competition. By the regional nature of D-III, the advantage is significant.
The "average" Northeast Region team is #37 of the 74 teams in the region. The number of teams in that part of the country that are within 500 miles permits the NCAA to create brackets that separate the NESCAC teams so as to allow them. The entire membership of the NESCAC is in the top of the region on Massey, and the NESCAC is the #2 conference in Massey's ratings of D-III.
http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&yr=2011&sub=NCAA%20III&mid=1
The last regular season Top 25 had 5 teams from the Northeast. That is a fair representation. :)
Thanks Ralph, fair enough. I should probably refrain from commentary on Massey since as noted I am far from an expert on it. Clearly, the current Massey rankings are more than fair to the New England teams, after last weekend especially!
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 14, 2011, 10:47:56 AM
nescac, trust me, I for one am hoping to see Troy play and have an impact on the game. Because I would rather see Wooster beat Williams at 100% as opposed to seeing the Scots beat a Williams team not at 100% and then have to hear the excuses about how different it would have been with a healthy Whittington.
I, on the other hand, would rather see Williams forced to field a team of intramural scrubs. Not that I would wish the pain of injury upon any of their players. Rather, it would seem to me that at such a vaunted academic institution the time is right for the athletes, this weekend, to do some extra work in the library. After all, finals will be arriving in but a matter of months. Or perhaps they should spend some time studying abroad; the south of France is nice this time of year. ::)
Hah. Well, it IS mid-terms week at Williams, and I am not normally one to ever suggest that academics shouldn't come first, but I have a feeling the players are pretty-well focused on hoops right about now :). Of course, Wooster guys might be too busy solving Rubik's Cubes themselves ... as I noted on the NESCAC board, this may be the only team that can out-dork Williams or Middlebury ...
I was stunned that Wooster sold out a 3000 person stadium, that is quite impressive. Do Wooster fans travel well? At last year's Final Four, Stevens Point fans were the dominant force, with a far larger presence than local favorite Guilford, which really surprised me.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 12:12:44 PM
Hah. Well, it IS mid-terms week at Williams, and I am not normally one to ever suggest that academics shouldn't come first, but I have a feeling the players are pretty-well focused on hoops right about now :). Of course, Wooster guys might be too busy solving Rubik's Cubes themselves ... as I noted on the NESCAC board, this may be the only team that can out-dork Williams or Middlebury ...
I was stunned that Wooster sold out a 3000 person stadium, that is quite impressive. Do Wooster fans travel well? At last year's Final Four, Stevens Point fans were the dominant force, with a far larger presence than local favorite Guilford, which really surprised me.
Wooster fans can get to Salem in about 6 hours. If 3,000 people showed up for their last home game, I suspect a decent number will make the drive for the Final Four.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 12:12:44 PM
I was stunned that Wooster sold out a 3000 person stadium, that is quite impressive. Do Wooster fans travel well? At last year's Final Four, Stevens Point fans were the dominant force, with a far larger presence than local favorite Guilford, which really surprised me.
Wooster's basketball fan base rivals the top fan bases in all of DIII (Hope, Calvin, Illinois Wesleyan, etc.). Wooster traveled well to both previous Final Fours, and I've already heard about several carpools/buses being organized for the trip to Salem. I'd expect a pretty good crew of people decked out in black and old gold this weekend.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 12:12:44 PM
I was stunned that Wooster sold out a 3000 person stadium, that is quite impressive.
Timken Gym seats roughly 3,400, and the attendance was over 2900 four each of the Scots' four home NCAA tournament games this year. Much of the fan support comes from the community, rather than those directly associated with the college.
You can get a good sense of the environment in this highlight video from the Whitworth game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DUuEYC9YE&hd=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DUuEYC9YE&hd=1)
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 08:58:58 AM
I am no expert on Massey's methodology, so I can't comment on any methodological flaws. I just see his results, and they always seem skewed to Western teams (even some mediocre Western teams), especially teams that play WIAC, or play anyone who play WIAC. I am not sure where Massey had Williams, Midd and Amherst entering the tourney, but I feel confident those are two top three, and then a top ten, teams respectively, and I think the NCAA results bore that out ... where did Massey rank them? Basically, I am saying, whatever his methodology is, his results always seem to skew too much in favor of the West. But admittedly, I don't know enough about what that methodology is to comment beyond that.
I would say the biggest difference between Northeast and Midwest/West/Great Lakes schedules is the number of D2 and D1 and NAIA games scheduled for the MW/W/GL schools is much higher. Games vs D2 and D1 can really boost a schools strength of schedule in massey as can games vs the top NAIA I or II programs, and therefore can boost a teams power rating.
How much of a difference this makes in his rankings is unclear, but I'm sure it plays a factor. Is it enough to make the Northeast under represented in the Massey ratings? I kind of doubt it.
Massey's biggest flaw right now is counting games vs D2 and D1 where the D1/D2 school can count the game but its an exhibition for the D3 program. You'll find a few of these among GL/West/MW schools and was noted a few weeks ago that the Northwest Conference had more of these matchups than most.
I don't think its so much the ratings themselves that are problematic, but Massey sort of assumes a cross-section of common opponents as there in in D1. When most schools play only regional schools, it's difficult to accurately judge across regions.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 14, 2011, 11:13:57 AM
Thanks for the response, nescac1.
Many of us wonder about the preponderance of WIAC teams at the top of many Massey Ratings, but most fans outside the northeast believe that the NESCAC teams have an unfair advantage. The members of the entire conference overwhelm their weaker competition. By the regional nature of D-III, the advantage is significant.
Plus, the NESCAC is the only league in D3 that plays a single round-robin rather than either a full or modified double round-robin. That means that each NESCAC team gets an extra dollop of games to strategically schedule against upper-echelon teams from those weak northeastern leagues of which Ralph spoke.
Also, the geographical compactness of the northeastern corner of the country lends itself to separating teams from the same league come tourney time by putting them into different corners of the bracket. It's thus much, much easier to slot two NESCAC teams into different sections than it is to get, say, CCIW or ODAC teams separated, to say nothing of the WIAC. And, yes, I know that CCIW and ODAC teams have been separated into different sections in the past; what I'm saying is that it takes a lot more work on the part of the committee to do it, and you have to have the right combination of teams available in order to make it happen. It's even harder to separate two WIAC teams. On the other hand, there's never a problem with separating a Williams from an Amherst, or both from a Middlebury. You could take out a map, put the compass point on Williamstown, MA, draw a circle with a 500-mile radius, and you'd envelop more than half of D3's membership.
Believe me, I have plenty of respect for the NESCAC and its top teams. They have, indeed, proven themselves in Salem quite often. But let's not overlook some of the factors that've made it an easier road for them to get to Salem, or to get more than one team there.
Quote from: sac on March 14, 2011, 08:27:12 PM
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 08:58:58 AM
I am no expert on Massey's methodology, so I can't comment on any methodological flaws. I just see his results, and they always seem skewed to Western teams (even some mediocre Western teams), especially teams that play WIAC, or play anyone who play WIAC. I am not sure where Massey had Williams, Midd and Amherst entering the tourney, but I feel confident those are two top three, and then a top ten, teams respectively, and I think the NCAA results bore that out ... where did Massey rank them? Basically, I am saying, whatever his methodology is, his results always seem to skew too much in favor of the West. But admittedly, I don't know enough about what that methodology is to comment beyond that.
I would say the biggest difference between Northeast and Midwest/West/Great Lakes schedules is the number of D2 and D1 and NAIA games scheduled for the MW/W/GL schools is much higher. Games vs D2 and D1 can really boost a schools strength of schedule in massey as can games vs the top NAIA I or II programs, and therefore can boost a teams power rating.
How much of a difference this makes in his rankings is unclear, but I'm sure it plays a factor. Is it enough to make the Northeast under represented in the Massey ratings? I kind of doubt it.
Massey's biggest flaw right now is counting games vs D2 and D1 where the D1/D2 school can count the game but its an exhibition for the D3 program. You'll find a few of these among GL/West/MW schools and was noted a few weeks ago that the Northwest Conference had more of these matchups than most.
I wouldn't say it's the biggest difference, but it is a significant one. However, sac, you neglected to say
why D3 teams west of the Allegheny River find themselves playing scholarship schools more often than do the D3 schools in the northeastern corridor. It's geography. Many of the midwestern and western teams are geographic isolates. The MIAA's stuck on a large peninsula, far away from most schools in its region while a large handful of Chicagoland schools are just out of reach of the 200-mile limit for the league's westernmost representatives. The NWC, SCIAC, UC-Santa Cruz, and Chapman are two time zones removed from the rest of D3. And so on. None of the schools in the northeastern corridor have similar problems, not even the Maine schools. You've gotta fill your non-conference schedule somehow, and if there aren't a sufficient number of neighboring D3 schools outside of your league for you to fill up the slate, you need to look elsewhere.
And I'll pre-empt Ralph by saying that the same isolation syndrome holds true for much of the South Region, the ASC in particular. ;)
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 14, 2011, 10:30:12 PM
I don't think its so much the ratings themselves that are problematic, but Massey sort of assumes a cross-section of common opponents as there in in D1. When most schools play only regional schools, it's difficult to accurately judge across regions.
Agreed.
+1 GS!
You have recited the collective wisdom from playoffs past.
I tend to forget that newbies on the site have not read these discussions, and we have a new group of fans every year.
Quote
Timken Gym seats roughly 3,400, and the attendance was over 2900 four each of the Scots' four home NCAA tournament games this year. Much of the fan support comes from the community, rather than those directly associated with the college.
You can get a good sense of the environment in this highlight video from the Whitworth game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DUuEYC9YE&hd=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DUuEYC9YE&hd=1)
Much of Stevens Point's support come from the community as well. We do have a "student" section, but its more of a meeting place and a social gathering. The Luther student section was chanting, "where's your students?" We didn't care because our crowd was 5 times the size of theirs!
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 14, 2011, 11:25:43 PM
Quote
Timken Gym seats roughly 3,400, and the attendance was over 2900 four each of the Scots' four home NCAA tournament games this year. Much of the fan support comes from the community, rather than those directly associated with the college.
You can get a good sense of the environment in this highlight video from the Whitworth game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DUuEYC9YE&hd=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DUuEYC9YE&hd=1)
Much of Stevens Point's support come from the community as well. We do have a "student" section, but its more of a meeting place and a social gathering. The Luther student section was chanting, "where's your students?" We didn't care because our crowd was 5 times the size of theirs!
One common denominator among all schools that draw large crowds in D3 is extensive townie support. That only stands to reason, of course, since the vast majority of D3 schools have small student populations.
The other common denominator, of course, is that they're all consistently winning programs over an extended period of time.
I am surprised by comments that ST Thomas had the toughest bracket. I believe they had the most impressive win over UW sp (at least the biggest upset) in my mind but I called the Whitworth/Wooster bracket the "bracket of death". :D Whitworth path for instance #12 Chapman #11 Marietta and then on the road to face #5 Wooster. That to me is tougher path than not facing a ranked opponent until UW sp. I'm a east guy and I do not know as much as most of you but I need to be convinced that the top left bracket wasn't the toughest. I'd say Middlebury had the easiest path. Williams and St Thomas about equal and the Upper left bracket deserved my "nickname". ;D
Quote from: nescac1 on March 14, 2011, 12:12:44 PM
I was stunned that Wooster sold out a 3000 person stadium, that is quite impressive. Do Wooster fans travel well? At last year's Final Four, Stevens Point fans were the dominant force, with a far larger presence than local favorite Guilford, which really surprised me.
How is the following of the other Final Four participants. I think it's already been established that Wooster should be well represented. I'm just curious how many fans we can expect from the other 3 schools.
I heard Williams had arguably their largest contingent of fans last year and I'm assuming we can expect the same sort of turnout from their fans in Salem this year. So, that leaves the question surrounding Midd and UST and how many fans we can expect from them?
I'm not sure how many Middlebury students will be able to make it, frankly. It's a 13-hour drive and midterms start this week.
Quote from: with age came? on March 15, 2011, 12:43:08 AM
I am surprised by comments that ST Thomas had the toughest bracket. I believe they had the most impressive win over UW sp (at least the biggest upset) in my mind but I called the Whitworth/Wooster bracket the "bracket of death". Whitworth path for instance #12 Chapman #11 Marietta and then on the road to face #5 Wooster. That to me is tougher path than not facing a ranked opponent until UW sp. I'm a east guy and I do not know as much as most of you but I need to be convinced that the top left bracket wasn't the toughest. I'd say Middlebury had the easiest path. Williams and St Thomas about equal and the Upper left bracket deserved my "nickname".
I know I was one of those who said it. I believe Whitworth-Wooster was the single toughest match-up before Salem. However I don't think either run was more difficult than St. Thomas. St. Thomas and Williams are the only schools to have beaten two Final-Four level teams on the way to Salem - Williams was at home the whole time and neither VWC or Amherst are as good as Stevens Point.
Well, I went to purchase tickets at the COW today as they were supposed to be on sale from noon to 2pm today. Got there at noon and there were probably already over 100 people in line. By ten after, Wooster's allotment of nearly 400 tickets was sold out and there was still over 100 people in line. :o So, in 10 minutes Wooster sold nearly 400 tickets and that didn't even count the 100 or so people waiting in line that will now be buying their tickets directly from the Salem Civic Center as I just did.
I think it's safe to assume that Wooster will be well represented in Salem! 8-)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
That only stands to reason, of course, since the vast majority of D3 schools have small student populations.
Which makes it even more amazing that, in general, the student populations at games are nonexistent at WIAC schools. WIAC schools have somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 students, roughly, and if students do show up, the game is secondary.
I'm actually jealous to see and hear about rabid student sections at vastly smaller schools. I've heard of the student sections at GAC and St. Thomas. The student section at Concordia was pretty awesome and even the small student section that Luther had was loud.
I just wish the students at the big WIAC schools would have half the heart these other schools do. Even in non-tournament games, I've seen some good student sections at Lawrence and WLC.
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 15, 2011, 12:59:25 PM
Well, I went to purchase tickets at the COW today as they were supposed to be on sale from noon to 2pm today. Got there at noon and there were probably already over 100 people in line. By ten after, Wooster's allotment of nearly 400 tickets was sold out and there was still over 100 people in line. :o So, in 10 minutes Wooster sold nearly 400 tickets and that didn't even count the 100 or so people waiting in line that will now be buying their tickets directly from the Salem Civic Center as I just did.
I think it's safe to assume that Wooster will be well represented in Salem! 8-)
Schools only get 400? I think it's just as easy to call the Salem Civic Center and order tickets yourself. I believe that's what we did.
They start with 400 -- there are many more seats available for them but they take 400 home with them from the sectional to sell on campus.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2011, 01:52:52 PM
Schools only get 400? I think it's just as easy to call the Salem Civic Center and order tickets yourself. I believe that's what we did.
That's what I ended up doing. Woo's AD was hanging signs with the phone number for people to call and he said to specify you wanted in the Wooster section when ordering the tickets.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2011, 02:49:56 PM
They start with 400 -- there are many more seats available for them but they take 400 home with them from the sectional to sell on campus.
Why do they only allow schools to sell 400 tickets on their campuses? I know Kieth Beckett (Woo's A) said he told them 400 wouldn't be nearly enough and they didn't seem to care. BTW, he was right. :P
The reason I went to buy them on campus was because I had heard there was a $7.95 surcharge added to each ticket if you ordered them through ticketmaster. There was still a $2 charge per ticket, but I didn't mind that.
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 15, 2011, 03:47:48 PM
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2011, 01:52:52 PM
Schools only get 400? I think it's just as easy to call the Salem Civic Center and order tickets yourself. I believe that's what we did.
That's what I ended up doing. Woo's AD was hanging signs with the phone number for people to call and he said to specify you wanted in the Wooster section when ordering the tickets.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 15, 2011, 02:49:56 PM
They start with 400 -- there are many more seats available for them but they take 400 home with them from the sectional to sell on campus.
Why do they only allow schools to sell 400 tickets on their campuses? I know Kieth Beckett (Woo's A) said he told them 400 wouldn't be nearly enough and they didn't seem to care. BTW, he was right. :P
I don't know the details but I am sure that it would have been enough for Whitworth and probably for Cabrini as well.
A fascinating match-up to look forward to on Friday night is Middlebury's Nolan Thompson on St. Thomas's Tyler Nicolai.
During Midd's tournament run, Thompson has guarded three consecutive conference players of the year: Western Conn's Daquan Brooks, Rochester's John DiBartolomeo, and St. Mary's Alex Franz.
He hounded Brooks into a 5-13 shooting night and 11 points, half his 22 ppg average. DiBartolomeo? 5-13 also and 5 points below his season average. Franz hit his 16 ppg average exactly, but he had to take 18 shots, making 7, to do so.
Yes, Midd's shot-blocking trio of Locke, Sharry, and Davis had an impact in this regard--making drives to the hoop perilous and allowing Thompson to know he had a lot of help inside--but his on-the-ball defending is tenacious. Should be fun to watch this match-up on Friday.
why wasnt Jonathan Jones and marcel esonwuune chosen for the d3 all star game? and instead lester prosper and marvin billups. marcel and jones dominated the Atlantic region. both of them put up better number that lester and marvin.
Quote from: baller4 on March 15, 2011, 09:31:56 PM
why wasnt Jonathan Jones and marcel esonwuune chosen for the d3 all star game? and instead lester prosper and marvin billups. marcel and jones dominated the Atlantic region. both of them put up better number that lester and marvin.
Jones' injury? might have been his reason. He had an all-star season.
I just noticed.
The only home team not to "hold court" with home court advantage on the left side of the bracket was Oswego State in the second round loss to RIC.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 15, 2011, 10:34:47 PM
I just noticed.
The only home team not to "hold court" with home court advantage on the left side of the bracket was Oswego State in the second round loss to RIC.
One more team on the left side of the bracket - WPI played at home in the 2nd round and lost to Amherst. ;)
Quote from: wooscotsfan on March 15, 2011, 10:58:53 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 15, 2011, 10:34:47 PM
I just noticed.
The only home team not to "hold court" with home court advantage on the left side of the bracket was Oswego State in the second round loss to RIC.
One more team on the left side of the bracket - WPI played at home in the 2nd round and lost to Amherst. ;)
+1! Thanks.
Where are the All-Star rosters? I've been looking for them and missing something.
You're not missing anything -- they haven't been released yet.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2011, 10:09:22 AM
You're not missing anything -- they haven't been released yet.
Yeah, I saw that on Twitter. Man, I wish I would have thought to tag my tweets during the first round - I could have actually had people reading the updates from Cabrini.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2011, 10:09:22 AM
You're not missing anything -- they haven't been released yet.
They're out now. http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2011/03/nabc-all-star-rosters
Smart money is on the West in this one.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2011, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
That only stands to reason, of course, since the vast majority of D3 schools have small student populations.
Which makes it even more amazing that, in general, the student populations at games are nonexistent at WIAC schools. WIAC schools have somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 students, roughly, and if students do show up, the game is secondary.
I'm actually jealous to see and hear about rabid student sections at vastly smaller schools. I've heard of the student sections at GAC and St. Thomas. The student section at Concordia was pretty awesome and even the small student section that Luther had was loud.
I just wish the students at the big WIAC schools would have half the heart these other schools do. Even in non-tournament games, I've seen some good student sections at Lawrence and WLC.
This is due to the nature of those WIAC schools. More commuters, part-time students and non-traditional students matriculate there than the typical D-3 school.
Quote from: smedindy on March 17, 2011, 02:49:47 PM
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 15, 2011, 01:50:59 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 14, 2011, 11:39:22 PM
That only stands to reason, of course, since the vast majority of D3 schools have small student populations.
Which makes it even more amazing that, in general, the student populations at games are nonexistent at WIAC schools. WIAC schools have somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 students, roughly, and if students do show up, the game is secondary.
I'm actually jealous to see and hear about rabid student sections at vastly smaller schools. I've heard of the student sections at GAC and St. Thomas. The student section at Concordia was pretty awesome and even the small student section that Luther had was loud.
I just wish the students at the big WIAC schools would have half the heart these other schools do. Even in non-tournament games, I've seen some good student sections at Lawrence and WLC.
This is due to the nature of those WIAC schools. More commuters, part-time students and non-traditional students matriculate there than the typical D-3 school.
... I agree with the initial statement (due to the nature of the WIAC schools) but not the second one.
By number (and percentage, yes, the WIAC does have more commuters, part-timers, and non-trads...
But that doesn't meant that 80% of the 5-10k students fall in those categories.
Flip it around... 20% (just a stab at it) might be right, so 4-8kish students aren't in those categories.
I think that there is more of a sense of community with a lot of smaller private schools who have better student following.
When your school only has 1200 kids, and you live with those people (in the dorms) for 4 years and have classes with them, usually on a small campus, often times secluded from the nearby town, there will be more of a sense of community... You'll know the players or know someone who does, and so it matters to you.
The big D-I's are the same... but there's a chance you could get on TV, so that's part of the motivation there...
I've had some ideas of things that could be done at WIAC schools, such as an organization like the Orange Crush at Illinois... they cheer at the games, but they are essentially a non-profit org and do charitable things in the community, raise money for scholarships, etc.
Making it bigger than just the games might appeal to more people, and having it be part of something bigger, but especially something organized, means that you'll have somebody telling the group what to do, when to show up, etc.
I know nothing about this, Point, so this is really just an inquiry. With the size and nature of the WIAC schools is it more likely the atheletes are recruited to the team as opposed to the school - at least moreso than some of the smaller schools?
One of the things I appreciated about a small school (really small, even by d3 standards) was how all of the athletes were really just students who played sports.
I've been around other schools where there's no real scholarships, but due to a larger size and a more focused athletic program, there was a feeling among most students that the athletes were a separate group - and were less inclined to go to games and support this group who, while technically just other students, had sort of separated themselves from the rest?
It just seems like large(r) public schools might be more inclined to athletes who are there "just to play sports." Not that this is their sole purpose, but you get it.
Any chance this plays more of a part there?
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 17, 2011, 08:40:38 PM
I know nothing about this, Point, so this is really just an inquiry. With the size and nature of the WIAC schools is it more likely the atheletes are recruited to the team as opposed to the school - at least moreso than some of the smaller schools?
Huh? Every D3 school of which I'm aware, be it public or private, large or small, recruits its basketball players. That's why there's a story about Ian Franks of Wooster on the front page -- because the fact that he
wasn't recruited by Steve Moore to come to Wooster makes him such an anomaly.
However, if by "recruited to the team as opposed to the school" you are instead implying that coaches at smaller schools are more apt to focus upon the school as a whole rather than strictly upon the basketball program when actively recruiting prospects than are their coaching peers at larger schools, I'm not sure that I agree with that.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2011, 10:24:31 PM
However, if by "recruited to the team as opposed to the school" you are instead implying that coaches at smaller schools are more apt to focus upon the school as a whole rather than strictly upon the basketball program when actively recruiting prospects than are their coaching peers at larger schools, I'm not sure that I agree with that.
That's why I asked. I'm testing a hypothesis, so to speak. I have no experience with a school of 10,000. I just wonder whether the athletes are more recognizable as athletes or as students when fewer students have direct contact with them on a regular basis.
Just trying to offer up some possible answers to the question.
I've been to schools where the "who's that?" question is answered, "some basketball player" and I've been to schools where the answer is, "Dave." I just imagine the students are more likely to come out to games when they know someone on the team.
My first response would have been students come out when the teams are winning, but since we're talking about Point here, I figured that was a bad guess.
And, for the record, I do think there's a difference, recruiting-wise, between, "we'd like you to play basketball and we'll give you a great education" and "we think you'd fit well here and we'd like you to play basketball." I don't think either one is better than the other, but I do think they might foster a different atmosphere.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2011, 10:24:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 17, 2011, 08:40:38 PM
I know nothing about this, Point, so this is really just an inquiry. With the size and nature of the WIAC schools is it more likely the atheletes are recruited to the team as opposed to the school - at least moreso than some of the smaller schools?
Huh? Every D3 school of which I'm aware, be it public or private, large or small, recruits its basketball players. That's why there's a story about Ian Franks of Wooster on the front page -- because the fact that he wasn't recruited by Steve Moore to come to Wooster makes him such an anomaly.
However, if by "recruited to the team as opposed to the school" you are instead implying that coaches at smaller schools are more apt to focus upon the school as a whole rather than strictly upon the basketball program when actively recruiting prospects than are their coaching peers at larger schools, I'm not sure that I agree with that.
I will have to disagree (to
some extent). I thought Hoops Fan made some excellent points. The larger the school, the more likely the 'jocks' are to be in their own world, with less attachment to other students; the smaller the school, the more likely they have all taken classes together, shared dorms, etc.
As to the recruitment, Dennie Bridges talks much more about 'selling the school' than about selling the team. I have no idea whether or not this is 'coachspeak', but it is what he claims repeatedly in
A Dunk Only Counts Two Points.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2011, 10:43:52 PMI will have to disagree (to some extent). I thought Hoops Fan made some excellent points. The larger the school, the more likely the 'jocks' are to be in their own world, with less attachment to other students; the smaller the school, the more likely they have all taken classes together, shared dorms, etc.
I don't think that that's a function of school size at all. I've known lots of people from small schools who've talked about the self-segregation of their school's athletes from the rest of the student body. It's more a function of common identity, common purpose, and the hours upon hours that the team spends together as a unit and apart from the rest of the student body.
If anything, I think it varies more from sport to sport than from school to school. Football players, who live their lives within a cloud of societal stereotypes (some positive, many negative), are more likely on average to segregate themselves (or be segregated in turn by those who view them as troglodytic goons) than are, say, cross-country runners or soccer players, even at a school that strives to keep living and dining conditions socially integrated. And female athletes are much less likely to cluster into their own walled-in social cliques than are male athletes, since college women tend to be more socially advanced and have a wider net of interests and friends than their male peers.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 17, 2011, 10:39:47 PMThat's why I asked. I'm testing a hypothesis, so to speak. I have no experience with a school of 10,000. I just wonder whether the athletes are more recognizable as athletes or as students when fewer students have direct contact with them on a regular basis.
Just trying to offer up some possible answers to the question.
I've been to schools where the "who's that?" question is answered, "some basketball player" and I've been to schools where the answer is, "Dave." I just imagine the students are more likely to come out to games when they know someone on the team.
My first response would have been students come out when the teams are winning, but since we're talking about Point here, I figured that was a bad guess.
As a UWSP alumnus and a former Pointer PS can answer this better than I, but from my conversations with various friends who've attended WIAC schools I think it's more a case of the campus culture as a whole than athletic culture. Kids at WIAC schools are often more disconnected from resident student life in terms of formal extracurricular activities (of which sports attendance is one example), even if they're resident students themselves, than are their peers at other D3 schools. My contacts at UW-Whitewater frequently call it a "suitcase school," meaning that everybody goes home on the weekends. And my various UWEC friends have told me that the traditional and stereotypical aspects of student life aren't really present much on that campus (unless you consider heavy drinking to be "traditional and stereotypical" ;)).
I know, I know ... the plural of "anecdote" is not "data". But my admittedly limited glimpse into life at a WIAC school leads me to believe that the campus atmosphere at at least some of those schools isn't really the type where you and a dozen of your closest buddies are going to get together and plan elaborate costumes, rituals, etc., for the student section of a basketball game.
And now I'll hang up the phone and wait for PS's reply. ;)
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 17, 2011, 10:39:47 PMAnd, for the record, I do think there's a difference, recruiting-wise, between, "we'd like you to play basketball and we'll give you a great education" and "we think you'd fit well here and we'd like you to play basketball." I don't think either one is better than the other, but I do think they might foster a different atmosphere.
I agree. It's a subtle difference, but it is a noticeable one. I'm just not sure that it's a distinction that follows a trend with regard to school size. I think it's more likely to be a matter of individual preference on the part of a coach when he's making his presentation. If there is an exception, I think it'd be much more likely to be found in the recruiting patter of a UAA coach than a WIAC coach, because the campus atmosphere and academic expectations at UAA schools are so unique in terms of D3.
Greg, I totally agree that the 'self-segregation' varies by sport and gender. But as far as the two 'biggies' on most campuses (football and men's basketball), while the size of the school is certainly not a definitive factor, I'm quite confident that on average the larger the school, the more likely the teams are a separate world unto themselves.
And that, I would suggest, is a partial explanation for lesser student support at larger campuses. Commuter status is vastly more important, I'm sure, but even where non-commuters still present a large population, they may just not be 'invested'. Eastern Michigan, for example, has been varying between 20 and 25 thousand students for years, with a (very rough) breakdown of 50% commuters, 25% on campus, and 25% apartments near campus. While that means 10,000 or more on or near campus, student football attendance is rarely even close to 2,000, and basketball (student) attendance rarely hits 1,000. When I attended IWU (and we could dodge the dinosaurs ;)), I'd estimate that bball brought out at least half the student body, and football probably 75%.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2011, 11:48:34 PM
Greg, I totally agree that the 'self-segregation' varies by sport and gender. But as far as the two 'biggies' on most campuses (football and men's basketball), while the size of the school is certainly not a definitive factor, I'm quite confident that on average the larger the school, the more likely the teams are a separate world unto themselves.
I just don't agree. If there is a connection at all, it's because larger schools are more likely to be scholarship schools, and scholarship schools are more likely to enact specific segregating policies (team dining halls, team dorms, etc.). But that's, at best, an indirect link.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2011, 11:48:34 PMAnd that, I would suggest, is a partial explanation for lesser student support at larger campuses. Commuter status is vastly more important, I'm sure, but even where non-commuters still present a large population, they may just not be 'invested'. Eastern Michigan, for example, has been varying between 20 and 25 thousand students for years, with a (very rough) breakdown of 50% commuters, 25% on campus, and 25% apartments near campus. While that means 10,000 or more on or near campus, student football attendance is rarely even close to 2,000, and basketball (student) attendance rarely hits 1,000. When I attended IWU (and we could dodge the dinosaurs ;)), I'd estimate that bball brought out at least half the student body, and football probably 75%.
Your EMU experience seems to be coloring your response to this topic, but it doesn't match the overall D1 experience. At Big Ten schools, f'rinstance, campus life revolves around the football and basketball teams. They're far bigger than WIAC schools, but their student-fan investment in the major sports is the exact opposite of what you're identifying as a big-school trend.
I don't know how I'd go about proving this hypothesis, but I wonder if investment -- the high price that private-school students pay to be immersed in the resident-student collegiate experience -- has something to do with the fact that D3 privates, at least in the estimation of Tom and PS, seem to be more likely to draw intense and involved student crowds for school sporting events than do WIAC schools.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2011, 11:07:55 PM
I know, I know ... the plural of "anecdote" is not "data".
+k for this bit of brilliance.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2011, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2011, 11:48:34 PM
Greg, I totally agree that the 'self-segregation' varies by sport and gender. But as far as the two 'biggies' on most campuses (football and men's basketball), while the size of the school is certainly not a definitive factor, I'm quite confident that on average the larger the school, the more likely the teams are a separate world unto themselves.
I just don't agree. If there is a connection at all, it's because larger schools are more likely to be scholarship schools, and scholarship schools are more likely to enact specific segregating policies (team dining halls, team dorms, etc.). But that's, at best, an indirect link.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2011, 11:48:34 PMAnd that, I would suggest, is a partial explanation for lesser student support at larger campuses. Commuter status is vastly more important, I'm sure, but even where non-commuters still present a large population, they may just not be 'invested'. Eastern Michigan, for example, has been varying between 20 and 25 thousand students for years, with a (very rough) breakdown of 50% commuters, 25% on campus, and 25% apartments near campus. While that means 10,000 or more on or near campus, student football attendance is rarely even close to 2,000, and basketball (student) attendance rarely hits 1,000. When I attended IWU (and we could dodge the dinosaurs ;)), I'd estimate that bball brought out at least half the student body, and football probably 75%.
[1] Your EMU experience seems to be coloring your response to this topic, but it doesn't match the overall D1 experience. At Big Ten schools, f'rinstance, campus life revolves around the football and basketball teams. They're far bigger than WIAC schools, but their student-fan investment in the major sports is the exact opposite of what you're identifying as a big-school trend.
[2] I don't know how I'd go about proving this hypothesis, but I wonder if investment -- the high price that private-school students pay to be immersed in the resident-student collegiate experience -- has something to do with the fact that D3 privates, at least in the estimation of Tom and PS, seem to be more likely to draw intense and involved student crowds for school sporting events than are WIAC schools.
As to 1, you're probably correct. The big difference between Big Ten and EMU is TV (and other media) exposure.
As to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit. Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis. Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMMaybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 18, 2011, 12:26:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMMaybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
So even if I go 'ditto' for my college days, we still don't equal data?! ;D
Quote from: David Collinge on March 18, 2011, 12:26:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMMaybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:51:53 AM
Quote from: David Collinge on March 18, 2011, 12:26:13 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMMaybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
So even if I go 'ditto' for my college days, we still don't equal data?! ;D
+1! :D
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMAs to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit. Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis. Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
Quote from: David Collinge on March 18, 2011, 12:26:13 AM
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
Yeah, I was more or less just thinking out loud, which is why I said that it is a hypothesis that would seem to elude a proof. I'm still searching for a reason as to why WIAC schools, as indicated by Tom and PS, seem to have so little student-fan interest, in spite of the fact that it's the league that's universally understood to have the highest caliber of basketball in D3 (and is the home of the current national champions).
I dunno. I'm groping for an explanation. Maybe it's the cheese. ;)
So, the plural of anecdote isn't data. But surely antidote is the opposite, or at least the reciprocal. ::)
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2011, 01:21:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMAs to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit. Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis. Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
Quote from: David Collinge on March 18, 2011, 12:26:13 AM
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
Yeah, I was more or less just thinking out loud, which is why I said that it is a hypothesis that would seem to elude a proof. I'm still searching for a reason as to why WIAC schools, as indicated by Tom and PS, seem to have so little student-fan interest, in spite of the fact that it's the league that's universally understood to have the highest caliber of basketball in D3 (and is the home of the current national champions).
I dunno. I'm groping for an explanation. Maybe it's the cheese. ;)
Greg, I'm sure my hypothesis is also unprovable, but have you given it serious thought?
The larger the school, the more likely at least some of the classes are 100+ lecture halls. Is an athlete in such a class
really a 'classmate'? I have no data to support it, but it just seems intuitive to me that sharing a class of 15-20 with someone might make me more likely to want to go see how he does on the field/court than being in the same lecture hall. IMO, other things beings equal, a smaller school will have a better turnout of students than a larger school due to greater integration of the athletes into the student body.
So here's one that seems obvious and just never struck me. Perhaps at the WIAC schools there's a larger percentage of students who just don't care about sports because they're in d3? I know we love d3 athletics, but maybe the students are just less inclined to follow closely when opponents have strange names and there's no televised tournament at the end of the year to hold out hope you might qualify for?
I do think its easier for smaller schools to embrace the d3 ideals simply because they see themselves as small schools. Perhaps its more difficult for large schools to do so?
I know some of the UAA schools are pretty big, but they also have the academic elitism going for them, which is a bit of a different scenario.
I wonder what the turnout is like for the big public schools in Texas?
Sul Ross State is a small (1200 undergrads) school in rural, remote Big Bend. Alpine, TX has 6,000 people. It is 5 hours to the nearest D3 opponent. When the team is doing well, then students show up.
UT-Dallas is a big urban school with extremely selective admissions. (Think Trinity TX or UT Austin as schools that UTD students consider.) On the 2009 Elite 8 Comet team, 6th man Scott Rodgers (9.1ppg in 19 min/game) came to UTD instead of Stanford so he could play D-3 Hoops. Lots of things to do at UTD, so students may show up if they wish. McMurry, UMHB, LeTourneau have had as boisterous and enthusiastic a crowd as UTD at some UTD activities.
UT-Tyler is the only game in town for these students. Tyler is a city of 100,000 in a county of 200,000. No football on the campus, yet. There may be as many students in the Wellness Center (http://www.uttyler.edu/hpc/) as in the stands of a basketball game.
Three different public schools, with 3 different student bodies... One cannot generalize.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2011, 01:21:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMAs to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit. Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis. Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
Quote from: David Collinge on March 18, 2011, 12:26:13 AM
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
Yeah, I was more or less just thinking out loud, which is why I said that it is a hypothesis that would seem to elude a proof. I'm still searching for a reason as to why WIAC schools, as indicated by Tom and PS, seem to have so little student-fan interest, in spite of the fact that it's the league that's universally understood to have the highest caliber of basketball in D3 (and is the home of the current national champions).
I dunno. I'm groping for an explanation. Maybe it's the cheese. ;)
NJAC schools have the same problem. Also since the majority of students at a state school are in state residents many go home on weekends. At least that is what happens at NJAC schools. Also a lot of students I knew at NJCU and other NJAC schools had jobs to go to when not in school, both dorm and commuting students.
Knightstalker, you might be amused by my memory of a current NJAC school... back when I was an assistant at RPI in the mid 70's, I was charged with scouting all opponents... we played Stevens Tech, and an opportunity to see them play arose in a midweek game at Rutgers Newark.... I'll never forget that I was one of a crowd of ... 3!!!.... 3 people in the stands not on the bench or at the scorer's table... 2 old fellows and me!!!! with all the D3 games I've seen (and played in), that was the smallest attendance I ever witnessed (though I remember playing in the old dome at Brooklyn Poly where the stands consisted of two benches squeezed against the wall opposite the players benches... but at half capacity, I think we hit double figures for that game!!)
My guess about why there are not significant student followings at WIAC schools and other state school-oriented conferences is that the students there likely identify with the larger schools with which they are affiliated. This has been my experience with students attending Ohio State, Penn State, and Indiana affiliated campuses, most of which are D2 or D3.
We suffer from the same, you'd be amazed at how many Syracuse basketball shirts and hats you see around our campus, not to mention that the locals are more interested in D-I hockey than in D-III basketball.
Completely off subject now...
With talk about D1 basketball and how larger D3 schools are affiliated with them, as well as the D1 tourney starting, it make me think...
If D3 was strictly a national tourney where money didn't matter and we could fly teams wherever we wanted and there were actual seedings and keeping conference foes away from each other, how would this year's tourney be set up.
I was thinking everyone that was in the regional rankings would get the higher seeds while the AQs that weren't in the regional rankings would be the lower seeds.
I think the four #1 seeds would be Whitworth, Williams and Middlebury, but stuck on the 4th #1. St. Thomas at 24-3 or Wooster at 26-2 or even Augustana at 24-3. I don't have Point as an option as St. Thomas beat Point during the year.
The #2 seeds would be 2 of the 3 mentioned above along with Point and possibly VWU.
More later...
What are your thoughts?
It would be Wooster - if you give the committee and excuse (with a great season and good numbers) they're in. Like Duke in d1. Besides, I think Wooster is pretty darn good this year.
Augie had home court advantage and could not defend it.
I think that Whitworth was the only travel casualty. Every other team in and beyond the Sweet 16 would have won on a neutral floor.
I still stand my assessment that Home court advantage in D-III is worth:
3 points for teams 200 miles/3hours or less.
4 points for teams 200 miles to 499 miles.
7 points for teams 500 or more miles.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2011, 02:15:21 PM
Augie had home court advantage and could not defend it.
I think that Whitworth was the only travel casualty. Every other team in and beyond the Sweet 16 would have won on a neutral floor.
I still stand my assessment that Home court advantage in D-III is worth:
3 points for teams 200 miles/3hours or less.
4 points for teams 200 miles to 499 miles.
7 points for teams 500 or more miles.
Only Wooster might have a slight advantage for this tourney because of proxmity ~ 370 miles to Salem. It will be interesting to see how many Wooster fans attend.
Every one else is flying.
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 17, 2011, 10:43:52 PM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 17, 2011, 10:24:31 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 17, 2011, 08:40:38 PM
I know nothing about this, Point, so this is really just an inquiry. With the size and nature of the WIAC schools is it more likely the atheletes are recruited to the team as opposed to the school - at least moreso than some of the smaller schools?
Huh? Every D3 school of which I'm aware, be it public or private, large or small, recruits its basketball players. That's why there's a story about Ian Franks of Wooster on the front page -- because the fact that he wasn't recruited by Steve Moore to come to Wooster makes him such an anomaly.
However, if by "recruited to the team as opposed to the school" you are instead implying that coaches at smaller schools are more apt to focus upon the school as a whole rather than strictly upon the basketball program when actively recruiting prospects than are their coaching peers at larger schools, I'm not sure that I agree with that.
I will have to disagree (to some extent). I thought Hoops Fan made some excellent points. The larger the school, the more likely the 'jocks' are to be in their own world, with less attachment to other students; the smaller the school, the more likely they have all taken classes together, shared dorms, etc.
As to the recruitment, Dennie Bridges talks much more about 'selling the school' than about selling the team. I have no idea whether or not this is 'coachspeak', but it is what he claims repeatedly in A Dunk Only Counts Two Points.
Selling the school is just as much of a part of recruiting at a WIAC school as it is at a private.
And there are no athletes dorms at any D-III I'm aware of... so the athletes live with the other students for the mandated period (at UWSP, that was 2 years). The thing is, there are just so many MORE dorms and more classes and more majors, etc, the less... percentage(?) of the student population will have regular AND CONTINUED exposure to the athletes. Yes, more students will have a class with a basketball player, but they're less apt to have any type of relationship with them because it's just one class and done. At a smaller school, there are fewer classes, fewer dorms, fewer students in general to fill out the classes, so the percentage of the student population who has class/lives near the athlete will be greater and the regular and continued exposure to the athletes (that statement sounds weird now... hmmmm....) will be greater as well.
So there's much more of a chance that the answer to the question of "What are you doing tonight" will be "blah blah blah with my friends" but the blah blah blah will be attending an athletic event, because the friend is an athlete.
This argument kind of breaks down when you see some of the attendance numbers across D-III... but I think that you still will have stronger more unified student sections even at those schools because the students IN the student section will be pulling from a smaller populace and will likely know each other, listen to each other (i.e. 'everybody yell this when he shoots the free throw!').
I've always felt that kids at small, private colleges probably have 100 or so friends and aquaintances that the know and interact with. And kids at large, public colleges probably have 100 or so friends and aquaintances that they know and interact with.
The only difference then becomes the percentage of the student body that they know. I don't think that it ultimately makes a difference in attendance at games. I think there's at least 5-8 other factors that are more important.
Heck of a game between Wooster and Williams, as Wooster comes from 18 points behind to win it 73-71. Wooster was down 63-46 with 8:54 left in the game and went on a 19-1 run to take their 1st lead of the game at 65-64 with 3:35 remaining on a jumper by Nathan Balch. Back and forth action till the final points by Wooster with 25 seconds left. Ephs with several chances to tie the score or win it but came up a little short. Hope the 2nd game is as exciting as this one was.
Tommies up 32-25 over Middlebury at the half. Tyler Nicolai leads all scorers with 12 points. Ryan Sharry leads Middlebury with 7. Panthers led for the 1st 7 minutes by as much as 5 points but the Tommies finally got the lead with 9:39 left in the period. Back and forth action until 2:37 remaining when St. Thomas, down 23-21 ended the half on an 11-2 run. Nicolai with 2 fouls went to the bench only 9:30 into the game but he came back into the game with the Tommies down 21-19 and 3:55 left on the clock. He proceeded to knock down a 3, steal the ball and get a layup and exit the game 1:47 later with the Tommies up 26-23.
I just went through my Direct TV listing for tomorrow and don't see the D3 championship games listed...
However CBSCHD 613 has something called 'FULL Court Press' on most of the afternoon, as well as some unidentified games in the middle of the night... does anyone know for sure if the 2 championship games are to be televised?
Officials miss a 3Fg by Nicolai. It should be 44-42!
Quote from: hopefan on March 18, 2011, 09:27:00 PM
I just went through my Direct TV listing for tomorrow and don't see the D3 championship games listed...
However CBSCHD 613 has something called 'FULL Court Press' on most of the afternoon, as well as some unidentified games in the middle of the night... does anyone know for sure if the 2 championship games are to be televised?
They are streamed online from the NCAA.
I live in the woods.. no luck with streaming....no DSL available, my satellite is hopeless...
Mid and the Tommies down to the final 2:30 and St Thomas leads by 3 pts, 55-52.
Just under a minute left and the score is 59-57. Tommies have the lead and the ball coming out of a Middlebury timeout. Nolan Thompson just hit a big three for the Panthers to made it only a 2 point deficit.
Middlebury with a steal. 26 seconds left and a timeout.
St. Thomas holds off Middlebury and advances to the Championship Game. Final score 59-57. Middlebury came out of a timeout with 16 seconds to play and had a tough time getting off a decent shot. Nolan Thompson had a decent look at a 3 pointer but he was closely guarded and his shot went off the rim and the Tommies grabbed the rebound and the victory. The Tommies' Tyler Nicolai led all scorers with 15 points. Tommy Hannon had 11 points 6 rebounds and 3 steals. Brady Ervin added 10 points and 5 boards.
Ryan Sharry had a double-double for the Panthers, with 11 points and 11 rebounds. Nolan Thompson led Middlebury with 12 points and Jamal Davis added 10.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2011, 09:27:11 PM
Officials miss a 3Fg by Nicolai. It should be 44-42!
It did not cost them.
Congrats to the Tommies!
West versus Great Lakes.
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2011, 10:06:49 PM
Quote from: Ralph Turner on March 18, 2011, 09:27:11 PM
Officials miss a 3Fg by Nicolai. It should be 44-42!
It did not cost them.
Congrats to the Tommies!
West versus Great Lakes.
No, it didn't hurt the Tommies but Tyler Nicolai is my guy, and if I lose the NCAA fantasy league title by 1 or 2 points I won't be a happy camper. :( >:( I may have to lodge a protest. ???
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2011, 07:26:16 AM
Curious if any conference can top any of these. Since 1994, when NESCAC was first eligible to compete in the tourney:
(1) One NESCAC school has made six Final Fours (Williams)
(2) NESCAC has had two teams make the Final Four twice (Amherst/Williams 2004, Midd/Williams 2011)
(3) NESCAC has had five conference schools make the Final Four (Williams x 6, Amherst x 4, Trinity, Conn College, Midd)
(4) Two NESCAC schools have won national titles (Williams and Amherst) (WIAC I know can equal that one)
Since 2003, NESCAC has AVERAGED one Final Four team per year!
I realize that, in some (but certainly not all) years NESCAC teams have an easier path to the Final Four. No one can claim that this year, as Midd had to go on the road despite earning a top seed, and Williams had to beat two top-ten caliber teams. But even given that, that is a pretty damn impressive record over the last 17 years, and especially the last 9 years ...
One and done for both NESCAC teams, now 2 for 13, WIAC 9 for 12 (Platteville 4-1, Stevens Point 3-0, Whitewater 2-1, Eau Claire 0-1)
Really nice streamed broadcasts by the NCAA for both the men and women. Replays and everything.
a pair of truly excellent games tonight....I like my Tommies chances vs Wooster!! awesome play all around by UST....this team is C-L-U-T-C-H!
Is the game on TV this year?? I thought it was normally on ESPNU or CBS college sports but can't seem to find it on the DVR guide tomorrow. This is incredibly dissapointing. Granted I haven't seen Wooster nor St. Thomas this year so don't care who wins, but I am at a D-3 school so was hoping to watch the game since UConn doesn't even play until 9:40 tomorrow night.
Quote from: nescac1 on March 13, 2011, 07:26:16 AM
Curious if any conference can top any of these. Since 1994, when NESCAC was first eligible to compete in the tourney:
(1) One NESCAC school has made six Final Fours (Williams)
(2) NESCAC has had two teams make the Final Four twice (Amherst/Williams 2004, Midd/Williams 2011)
(3) NESCAC has had five conference schools make the Final Four (Williams x 6, Amherst x 4, Trinity, Conn College, Midd)
(4) Two NESCAC schools have won national titles (Williams and Amherst) (WIAC I know can equal that one)
Since 2003, NESCAC has AVERAGED one Final Four team per year!
I realize that, in some (but certainly not all) years NESCAC teams have an easier path to the Final Four. No one can claim that this year, as Midd had to go on the road despite earning a top seed, and Williams had to beat two top-ten caliber teams. But even given that, that is a pretty damn impressive record over the last 17 years, and especially the last 9 years ...
Midd going on the road? So did the Tommies.
Please remember. Officially, there is no Top Seed in D-III. The proverbial 500-mile radius around Rock Island, IL, however seems to be the "gravitational center" of the strongest teams in D-III basketball. The recent bracket juggling to find credible competition in the first 4 games for the NESCAC teams in the last 3-4 years has been a huge improvement in the tournament. ;)
Usually the star players or those with the best stories will dominate the talk in hoops, at least at the D3 level. But on Saturday, the focus has to be on the coaches, two of the classiest and most successful coaches in all of college basketball, each going for their first national title. Steve Fritz has won 570 games in his 30 years at St. Thomas. Steve Moore has tallied 656 victories in his career, 569 of those in his 23 years as Wooster's head coach. Both have the respect of everyone who knows beans about college hoops, and the winner will be richly deserving of his long-awaited first national title. Although, obviously, I have a preference, I wish good luck and congratulations to both of these outstanding coaches, and will be very happy for the winner.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 19, 2011, 12:57:40 AM
Usually the star players or those with the best stories will dominate the talk in hoops, at least at the D3 level. But on Saturday, the focus has to be on the coaches, two of the classiest and most successful coaches, each going for their first national title. Steve Fritz has won 570 games in his 30 years at St. Thomas. Steve Moore has tallied 656 victories in his career, 569 of those in his 23 years as Wooster's head coach. Both have the respect of everyone who knows beans about college hoops, and the winner will be richly deserving of his long-awaited first national title. Although I obviously have a preference, I wish good luck and congratulations to both of these outstanding coaches, and will be very happy for the winner.
uh, you short-changed Fritzie...counting the semifinal win, he is now at 593 and this is his 31st year as head coach (as a player, assistant and hea coach, hes been involved in something like 1200 consecutive games for St Thomas)... ....added feature-- the two coaches are good friends.
I share your repect for both coaches and their programs, but Wooster should make the trip to St. Paul sometime soon :)
Thanks; I was going by the UST website (http://www.tommiesports.com/mbb/coaches/FritzSteve.html), which I now see is a year out of date. :-[
No television tomorrow.
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 19, 2011, 03:29:37 AM
No television tomorrow.
It REALLY stinks that this game isn't televised. SO typical of the way the NCAA disrespects D-III. I suppose we should just be happy to have a championship game. I'm not advocating prime time, but I notice that truTV , TBS and TNT 's cameras will all be idle this afternoon....you'd think one of them could be showing what should be a classic battle between two of the 3 winningest programs in Division III history!
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 19, 2011, 03:29:37 AM
No television tomorrow.
I take it no television for the women either then Pat?? That stinks.
Quote from: miacmaniac on March 19, 2011, 10:48:48 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 19, 2011, 03:29:37 AM
No television tomorrow.
It REALLY stinks that this game isn't televised. SO typical of the way the NCAA disrespects D-III. I suppose we should just be happy to have a championship game. I'm not advocating prime time, but I notice that truTV , TBS and TNT 's cameras will all be idle this afternoon....you'd think one of them could be showing what should be a classic battle between two of the 3 winningest programs in Division III history!
Did that many people really have whatever channel it was that it's been on in the past? They haven't put the d3 game on CBS in quite a few years, right? Was it CSTV? I've never lived anywhere where that was even an option.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 16, 2011, 12:44:11 PM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 16, 2011, 10:09:22 AM
You're not missing anything -- they haven't been released yet.
They're out now. http://www.d3hoops.com/notables/2011/03/nabc-all-star-rosters
Smart money is on the West in this one.
Real smart. West is killing East.
Classic. Retired Albion coach Mike Turner, the East's assistant coach, gets called for a T (for what?), and retired Muskingum coach and West head coach Jim Burson steps out to bury the free throws. :)
I haven't been paying close attention; have the Williams and Middlebury players appeared?
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 19, 2011, 01:11:01 PM
Quote from: miacmaniac on March 19, 2011, 10:48:48 AM
Quote from: Pat Coleman on March 19, 2011, 03:29:37 AM
No television tomorrow.
It REALLY stinks that this game isn't televised. SO typical of the way the NCAA disrespects D-III. I suppose we should just be happy to have a championship game. I'm not advocating prime time, but I notice that truTV , TBS and TNT 's cameras will all be idle this afternoon....you'd think one of them could be showing what should be a classic battle between two of the 3 winningest programs in Division III history!
Did that many people really have whatever channel it was that it's been on in the past? They haven't put the d3 game on CBS in quite a few years, right? Was it CSTV? I've never lived anywhere where that was even an option.
On the contrary, I've had Dish Network, then Directv.. and ALWAYS been able to see the finals if I didn't drive to Salem from the Midwest... this will be the first year I WON'T be able to watch givne no DSL available where I live.....
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 01:54:40 AM
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 18, 2011, 01:21:06 AM
Quote from: Mr. Ypsi on March 18, 2011, 12:13:52 AMAs to 2, interesting hypothesis, which might well have merit. Although, of course, at the privates it is likely to be PARENTS' investments, while at WIAC and places like EMU it has a higher likelihood of STUDENTS' investments, which would seem to undercut your hypothesis. Maybe students at private schools have more regard for their parents' investment than we might have guessed?! :D
Quote from: David Collinge on March 18, 2011, 12:26:13 AM
As a private school student back in the days when $30,000 was still a lot of money, I had no regard whatever for my parents' investment. Of course, that's just anecdotal evidence.
Yeah, I was more or less just thinking out loud, which is why I said that it is a hypothesis that would seem to elude a proof. I'm still searching for a reason as to why WIAC schools, as indicated by Tom and PS, seem to have so little student-fan interest, in spite of the fact that it's the league that's universally understood to have the highest caliber of basketball in D3 (and is the home of the current national champions).
I dunno. I'm groping for an explanation. Maybe it's the cheese. ;)
Greg, I'm sure my hypothesis is also unprovable, but have you given it serious thought?
The larger the school, the more likely at least some of the classes are 100+ lecture halls. Is an athlete in such a class really a 'classmate'? I have no data to support it, but it just seems intuitive to me that sharing a class of 15-20 with someone might make me more likely to want to go see how he does on the field/court than being in the same lecture hall. IMO, other things beings equal, a smaller school will have a better turnout of students than a larger school due to greater integration of the athletes into the student body.
Again, though, you're disregarding the mania surrounding football and basketball on the major D1 campuses, most of which are mega-huge and have very little interaction between the athletes in question and their supposed student peers.
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 18, 2011, 01:54:50 AM
So here's one that seems obvious and just never struck me. Perhaps at the WIAC schools there's a larger percentage of students who just don't care about sports because they're in d3? I know we love d3 athletics, but maybe the students are just less inclined to follow closely when opponents have strange names and there's no televised tournament at the end of the year to hold out hope you might qualify for?
I hate to say it, but I think you may be right. Also, in line with apstorey's comment about branch-campus affinity for the main campus's sports, I would imagine that some WIAC students are big Badgers fans and follow the Badgers more closely than the teams from their own branch campus.
Man, as the first half winds down, St. Thomas looks like they could beat either of the All-Star teams.
Quote from: Gregory Sager on March 19, 2011, 03:31:39 PM
Quote from: Hoops Fan on March 18, 2011, 01:54:50 AM
So here's one that seems obvious and just never struck me. Perhaps at the WIAC schools there's a larger percentage of students who just don't care about sports because they're in d3? I know we love d3 athletics, but maybe the students are just less inclined to follow closely when opponents have strange names and there's no televised tournament at the end of the year to hold out hope you might qualify for?
I hate to say it, but I think you may be right. Also, in line with apstorey's comment about branch-campus affinity for the main campus's sports, I would imagine that some WIAC students are big Badgers fans and follow the Badgers more closely than the teams from their own branch campus.
That may have some validity... but I'm not sure if it has any more validity than college kids from Illinois at Augustana or Illinois Wesleyan. The flagship state university, whether there is any affiliation or not, is going to garner a lot of attention.
I don't think that there's any difference in allegiance to the University of Wisconsin at UW Stevens Point or UW Oshkosh as their is at Lawrence or Ripon.
I think it's believed that Stevens Point's 73-49 victory over Rochester in the 2005 Championship game was the largest margin of victory ever.
St. Thomas's margin of victory tied that. We're all purple anyway!
Checking the attendence:
2005: 2877
2010: 2835
2011: 2838
I assume a lot of the crowd was Wooster. How many Tommie fans were there?
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 20, 2011, 01:41:47 AM
I think it's believed that Stevens Point's 73-49 victory over Rochester in the 2005 Championship game was the largest margin of victory ever.
St. Thomas's margin of victory tied that. We're all purple anyway!
Checking the attendence:
2005: 2877
2010: 2835
2011: 2838
I assume a lot of the crowd was Wooster. How many Tommie fans were there?
I'd estimate less than 1/4 of the total crowd were Tommy fans.
How many Wooster fans?
I don't know how many Wooster fans were there (I'm guessing 500-1000) but Wooster's four home games in the NCAA tournament each had a higher attendance than the championship game in Salem. I realize that D-III isn't as marketable as D-I, but it's a shame that the Salem Civic Center is less than half-full for one of our division's biggest events.
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 20, 2011, 12:53:44 PM
How many Wooster fans?
If the total attendance was 2800+, I'd have to guess that Wooster fans were easily between 1000-1500 and of that total and I'd wager it was closer to 1500. Wooster fans almost filled one half of the Civic Center across from the benches and spilled over to the other side behind the benches.
Quote from: ScotsFan on March 20, 2011, 10:38:54 AM
Quote from: Old School-Greek Tragedy on March 20, 2011, 01:41:47 AM
I think it's believed that Stevens Point's 73-49 victory over Rochester in the 2005 Championship game was the largest margin of victory ever.
St. Thomas's margin of victory tied that. We're all purple anyway!
Checking the attendence:
2005: 2877
2010: 2835
2011: 2838
I assume a lot of the crowd was Wooster. How many Tommie fans were there?
I'd estimate less than 1/4 of the total crowd were Tommy fans.
It looked like the vast majority of UST fans were adults. Even more than the distance involved, I'm guessing that spring break kept down the number of UST students who attended the game.
Quote from: David Collinge on March 19, 2011, 02:14:16 PM
Classic. Retired Albion coach Mike Turner, the East's assistant coach, gets called for a T (for what?), and retired Muskingum coach and West head coach Jim Burson steps out to bury the free throws. :)
I haven't been paying close attention; have the Williams and Middlebury players appeared?
No, in fact they disappeared and did not attend.
Turner got called for a T ... for the laughs, really.
I think the all-star game was mostly a bust, actually, as are all all-star games. Lots of guys shooting open threes, an occasional dunk. We've all seen that before, so many times. No one, of course, was motivated to do much more. Unfortunately, that's probably the way it was with the consolation game, too.
However, the game involving the Special Olympians was heartwarming. One of the teams had a taller guy, maybe in his mid-twenties. He was athletic, really enthusiastic, and fun to watch. After scoring one time, he took these long majestic strides back up court and then leaped, just for fun, and almost touched the rim of his own basket. After his initial points, every time he got the ball he made sure to get it down court to one of his teammates, who was actually playing as a sixth man, a permanent basket-hanger. This guy was clearly less functional than the others, but with help, he was able to get off some shots from the baseline.
The other team had a guy who lined up and swished a three. Just to prove it wasn't luck, a possession or two later he took another one that just rimmed out. These teams only got to play for a few minutes but had the crowd cheering loudly almost immediately. It would have been great to see them on the the court longer.
A D-1 Men's question that is pertinent to D-III.
Who is the last D-1 Men's "at large" selection team in the bracket before the remainder of the seeds are the Pool A/AQ's from the "weaker" conferences? How is that team seeded?
Thanks.
that's an obvious one this year Ralph, because there were 2 playin games to determine it... USC and VCU played for an 11 seed, and UAB and Clemson played for a 12 seed.... the 3 other 12 seeds were automatics, as were all seeds below that.
We talked a lot about the impact of flights on the DIII tournament so I found the first part of this article particularly interesting: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/118341884.html (h/t d3hoops facebook feed)
Apparently in the case of St. Thomas, a "flight" to Salem involved some going to New Jersey and some going to Atlanta and each itinerary ending with a bus ride. I dearly hope this was because of extremely extenuating circumstances and not the NCAA norm.
Quote from: ziggy on March 21, 2011, 04:01:41 PM
We talked a lot about the impact of flights on the DIII tournament so I found the first part of this article particularly interesting: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/118341884.html (h/t d3hoops facebook feed)
Apparently in the case of St. Thomas, a "flight" to Salem involved some going to New Jersey and some going to Atlanta and each itinerary ending with a bus ride. I dearly hope this was because of extremely extenuating circumstances and not the NCAA norm.
Teams on multiple flights happens quite frequently. When you are trying to book 20 plane tickets on three days notice, it's bound to happen. The NCAA's travel department handles the reservations and purchasing, and they do the best they can, but if there's only X number of seats available on a flight, there's not much they can do.
Quote from: hopefan on March 21, 2011, 10:12:48 AM
that's an obvious one this year Ralph, because there were 2 playin games to determine it... USC and VCU played for an 11 seed, and UAB and Clemson played for a 12 seed.... the 3 other 12 seeds were automatics, as were all seeds below that.
Thanks Hopefan.
I just have not paid attention to D1. This tells us that there were six #16 seeds, four #15, #14 and #13 seeds, plus three #12 seeds from AQ's. Twenty-one in all. The bottom two-thirds of the D-1 conferences got 1 bid.
In D-3, our Pool C bids fall in the middle, too.
The Final Four is not the best 68 teams in D-1. It is access for every full member of D1, with allowances for enough at large teams to have the best 47 teams in the country by the determination of the D1 Committee. :)
Quote from: fantastic50 on March 20, 2011, 01:58:18 PM
I don't know how many Wooster fans were there (I'm guessing 500-1000) but Wooster's four home games in the NCAA tournament each had a higher attendance than the championship game in Salem. I realize that D-III isn't as marketable as D-I, but it's a shame that the Salem Civic Center is less than half-full for one of our division's biggest events.
I'm sure that's common in places like IWU, Hope, Calvin, UWSP etc. Those places can really fill the gym AT HOME. When fans have to travel 500+ miles to possibly see just one game, it makes it a little harder. I realize some fans stay for the 2nd game and even for the championship game if their team isn't in it, but they obviously go for their team.
Quote from: ziggy on March 21, 2011, 04:01:41 PM
We talked a lot about the impact of flights on the DIII tournament so I found the first part of this article particularly interesting: http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/118341884.html (h/t d3hoops facebook feed)
Apparently in the case of St. Thomas, a "flight" to Salem involved some going to New Jersey and some going to Atlanta and each itinerary ending with a bus ride. I dearly hope this was because of extremely extenuating circumstances and not the NCAA norm.
There must have been some extenuating circumstances is they chartered a plane for them to fly home.
I wonder if the Delta stranglehold on MSP had anything to do with it? Does anyone but USAir fly into Roanoke?
Delta flies into Roanoke as well -- you can get to Detroit and Atlanta from there on Delta, I believe. But there might not have been 20 available seats out of there for Delta on Sunday.