Quote from: unionpalooza on January 03, 2026, 01:58:58 PMJeff Behrman moves on from his alma mater JCU after just three seasons, headed to Bucknell So much for the perfect dream job! His name was also in the mix for the UAlbany job that ultimately went to the Susquehanna coach.

In other news, just saw Matthew Parker commit to transfer to Alfred. Looks like Ithaca also lost a backup WR to SJF.

Anyone heard anything on the IC coaching search?

Haven't heard much but definitely a newer trend where d3 head coaches go right to the FCS level head coaching spot.  Just thinking how even Cignetti goes from WR coach at Bama and other d1 position spots to head coach at D2 then back up the chain again. 

Quote from: IC798891 on December 17, 2025, 05:01:32 PMEchoing what was said above, every gym teacher at Ithaca High School when I was a student 1998-2001 was either an IC or a Cortland grad.

There's nothing wrong with being a high school gym teacher and sports coach. But why on earth would you spend 3x-4x as much on the education that's going to eventually land you -- literally -- the exact same job? It doesn't put you on a different track or open different doors for higher level things.

My IC gym teachers were great. So were my Cortland ones. They were also good coaches. But some of them graduated with a lot less debt than others. As the disparity between the schools' costs grew, it just became impossible.

I think any teacher can say the same although it wasn't always like this. 

When I taught in the early 21st century  , teaching jobs were not easy to get.  For an open history, English or PE job you might get 500 applicants for one position.  For English or History teachers at a good Boston suburb HS the top 50 candidates often had Masters degrees from Ivy league schools or similar (BU, BC).  Others may have history degrees from NESCAC schools and the like.  Unless the Framingham State grad student taught and was able to show they could do the job, those applicants were simply put at the bottom of the pile. PE was similar to an extent as Umass and Springfield degrees carried a lot of weight as well. 

In 2025 there just aren't as many people looking for teaching jobs from what I am hearing.

And to add above and I think we all have seen this.  Ivy league grads and the like can be odd.  A PHD In education from Harvard means nothing if you can't talk to kids or teach to them.

Quote from: IC798891 on December 16, 2025, 12:30:05 PM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 16, 2025, 11:35:36 AMBut the days of finding someone who is going to be your coach for 40 years with 3 national championships are gone I think

I bolded this because I think this word is the schism.

For almost everyone, you get a choice. If you want a coach who sticks with you for 30 years, they're probably not going to be putting you in National Title contention for three decades.

The odds of a Butterfield-type lifer who basically has you as a national power just up to retirement is slim to none. Mike Welch was a lifer, but while IC scratched and clawed its was to the 2013/2014 E8 titles, it didn't end especially well*. After 40 years with no losing seasons, Ithaca had two in Welch's last six years, with a .500 season to boot, and an 0-6 record in Cortaca.

*At the risk of sounding like Frank, I mean strictly in the W/L column. Everyone loved Welch at IC. There's a reason he got carried off the field after his last home game

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Brad Spencer is going to stick around Naperville for the next 25-30 years. Maybe Dan Wodicka sees himself as a Hopkins lifer.

But when the bigger names come calling actively, I imagine you can only resist for so long. Especially with the money involved -- though obviously no coach ever says that publicly.

Look at Curt Fitzpatrick. He'd spent nearly two decades as a D3 guy. His success at Cortland basically assured he had a job for life, with a NY State pension waiting for him after retiring. But winning it all probably put him on a lot of radars, and he didn't stick around.

Yea I think chasing the money with your family is the question every coach has to ask themselves. At some point I think a lot of coaches realize their ceiling and base their decisions on that.

And I think it is impossible to predict who gets the IC job.  RPI and Union's coaches have backgrounds with zero ties to either school and Swanstrom was the same.  All three are good coaches.  Include Behrman in there as well. 

Quote from: ICAlum16 on December 16, 2025, 10:34:59 AMYea that totally makes sense and I agree. There are a lot of Bomber alum from the last 10-15 years out there in the coaching world starting to make waves so it would be interesting to see if any of them get a chance.

This is also the first time we are doing a coaching search with a new AD who doesn't have ties to the program beyond being the new AD. I tried to use chatgpt to get a list of Ithaca grads in the college coaching ranks but it wasn't able to pull anything substantial. We definitely need someone who focuses on the trenches and can make us tougher up front.

Quote from: IC798891 on December 16, 2025, 09:16:19 AMRe: Faggiano

Utica's always going to have an uphill battle in the E8. Their cost of attendance is about double that of Cortland and Brockport, and their most recent four-year graduation rate is 44%. They don't have a ton of football history to lean on either.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that like Boyes at Buff State, Faggiano is getting absolutely the most that could be reasonably expected out of them, and most other coaches would be much worse.

Still don't think Faggiano is going anywhere but I've noticed that he is a defensive coach, but Utica always has stud QB's and potent offenses.  Utica also ranked 16th in the nation in TOP 

But the days of finding someone who is going to be your coach for 40 years with 3 national championships are gone I think.  So get the quality person that can lead young men and win games at the same time and leave the program in a better place than you found it.  Hell, even d1 football is this way.  There are 10 prize jobs and eveywhere else is a stepping stone. 

Quote from: IC798891 on December 15, 2025, 03:13:29 PM

Quote from: Pat Coleman on December 15, 2025, 01:47:14 PMI don't remember where this falls in the Wingfield timeline, but the Toerper beef with Frank Rossi was in place by the time the Ithaca-North Central game took place in the 2022 quarterfinals.

I was not aware it was still persisting, but haven't talked to Frank much in the past 12 months.

That was pre-Wingfield's injury.

I recall Ithaca not being too happy with Frank's handling of Joe Germinerio coming to Ithaca, though the details are hazy.

Frank's got a lot of beefs though, so who can really keep track?

YES.  Then there was some "Nabi should start the game" and some TOP discussion which got me going.......oh how the wheels of d3football roll.....

Quote from: unionpalooza on December 15, 2025, 02:21:46 PM

Quote from: IC798891 on December 15, 2025, 02:09:23 PM

Quote from: UfanBill on December 15, 2025, 01:45:19 PM...Could Utica H/C Blaise Faggiano be interested in returning to his alma mater?

He strikes me as pretty content to be Utica's answer to Jerry Boyes -- though Boyes did apply for the job Mike Welch got.

I would also be very, very surprised if Ithaca did not look to bring in an offensive minded coach. No specific insight, except how the tea leaves seem to be reading on the last two years.

That sounds right to me.  Also, the Utica and Ithaca models are very different.  At Utica, the deal is that he brings in as many tuition-paying warm bodies as possible and in return he gets the flexibility and financial packages he needs to bring in talent to complete. (I mean, they had 75 freshmen this year!) That just doesn't work at Ithaca, where they are not simply trying to drive raw numbers, but instead build a particular kind of incoming class each year.

Yea.  Was talking offline with IC about this.  In the 1990s (and before) Ithaca's roster was made up of mostly education/athletic/Health/PT type majors for the most part.  5 of my teammates are doctors now.  There were a few (5?) business majors but that was it.  Looking at todays roster it appears that 75% of the roster are in business or finance.  I'm guessing Ithaca College as a whole is making this happen to attract students as "liberal arts" isn't getting the bang for its buck that it used to.  May also explain the lack of New England talent on the roster as well. 

Quote from: unionpalooza on December 15, 2025, 01:57:04 PM

Quote from: UfanBill on December 15, 2025, 01:45:19 PM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on December 15, 2025, 11:54:25 AMThis all stems from the allegation that Union targeted Wingfield 2 years ago and put him out for the season. 

Everything after that stems from this allegation. 

Even this year (although not discussed on the board) I heard Union people (not sure if it were players coaches or fans) acted unsportsmanlike after the game.  I didn't care enough to ask the Ithaca people I knew were there but I saw the comments on social media.

I'm guessing Frank got his info from Union sources who have a different version.  I've also talked to Union people who didn't know about the Wingfield allegation but did know about Toerper going off on Union players and staff last year.


Anyway that's all I know from the allegation standpoint. I do remember the play Wingfield got hurt on, you can't tell what really happened as there was a pile.

Speaking of being able to see what really happened...May I refer all to THIS year's Union vs Ithaca game when early in the game Bombers LB Henry Takacs took a cheap shot at Union QB Patch Flanagan. Launching himself and hitting Patch in face with what was rightfully deemed targeting. Could that have been on purpose and on Toerper?..Not accusing just adding it to the mix. 

...Could Utica H/C Blaise Faggiano be interested in returning to his alma mater?

That play happened right on the Union sideline, in front of the visitors stands, and I watched it live - that was just a kid playing with too much edge/emotion in a big game and making a mistake. It warranted a targeting but I really don't think there was any nefarious intent.   

And I stand corrected from my sources.  The accusation wasn't that Wingfield was targeted by Union players or it was a dirty hit, but how the Union players acted afterwards.  In either case that should be settled by a Toerper phone call to Poppe after the game and move on.  It seems like it didn't for some reason, and now it appears the Rossi/Toerper stuff is not related to that since that NCC game was in 2022, before the Wingfield injury. 

Not sure Faggiano will leave Utica at this point either, he seems to have found a home there. 

And yea these jobs being stepping stones are going to be like this forever I'm guessing.  Doesn't mean it puts Union or Ithaca in a bad spot though, as it seems they have done ok with the coaching changes so far.

Would have been interesting to see if Toerper would have left if Swanstrom was at Penn and not Cornell as Toerper has some family ties to the Ithaca area.

One thing about the Ivy Leagues I found interesting is that new head coaches seem to keep more of the old staff than you normally see.  Although I'm guessing swanstrom relieved Backus of his duties, he kept some of the old staff.  The new Harvard coach kept the entire staff after Tim Murphy retired.

Anyway I have no clue who Ithaca plans to get for the next HC.  I don't mind as much as I used to though if someone wants to move on.

(And to ICs point I don't think Endicotts coach would come to Ithaca, he's probably moving up or staying)

This all stems from the allegation that Union targeted Wingfield 2 years ago and put him out for the season. 

Everything after that stems from this allegation. 

Even this year (although not discussed on the board) I heard Union people (not sure if it were players coaches or fans) acted unsportsmanlike after the game.  I didn't care enough to ask the Ithaca people I knew were there but I saw the comments on social media.

I'm guessing Frank got his info from Union sources who have a different version.  I've also talked to Union people who didn't know about the Wingfield allegation but did know about Toerper going off on Union players and staff last year.


Anyway that's all I know from the allegation standpoint. I do remember the play Wingfield got hurt on, you can't tell what really happened as there was a pile.

Quote from: unionpalooza on December 08, 2025, 12:24:21 PM

Quote from: Machiavelli on December 08, 2025, 12:06:49 PMPretty cool seeing Coach Behrman's John Carrol knock off Mt. Union. Feels like his move from Union was a good one.

I agree - and I think his program has more accomplishments ahead of it.

It's a perfect fit for him - his whole family is around there, and he was a QB for JCU in the early 90s. And it doesn't get much better than recruiting from northeast Ohio with a direct line to a ton of catholic prep schools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDGIdxOFgTc

"The d3 zone" has a youtube channel that does a great job breaking down a bunch of playoff games with highlights from the games.  John Carrol has a tough defense with a lot of size.  Just poked over to the OAC board and it is basically like the sun burnt out. 

We might need to go to the top on this one.  ESPN is run by a Cornell grad.  They are owned by Disney who is run by an Ithaca (d3) grad. I will write an email to the top and get back to the LL board with the response. I expect nothing but the best on this one.

Jonny U.

Quote from: UfanBill on November 22, 2025, 02:44:14 PMFinal...Muhlenberg 34-Union 26...Union just could not stop the Mules in the 2nd half. The game changed in that 3 play disaster when Patch was not on the field. (if that wasn't a stats mistake) Great effort by the Garnet. Patch was brilliant yet again...26/34 300 yds 3 TDs but the Mules held him to only 41 net yards rushing. 

Patch is a good RPO QB.  The Mules probably made him throw it and that exactly what he did.  Looks like a great game there. 

I get it.  We need to support the league and every team in it.  Thats what leagues are for or should be for in d3. Hilbert is an upstate school who wants to start a new program and the need opponents so let's help them out.  But as I'm typing this I'm still wondering if there is something else at play here...why take them in the first place?  How did that help the league?  And academics means nothing, if swathmore wanted to bring that guy with the candle back and join the league they would impact pool c the same.

The LL has the 3rd worst team in the country and the 15th worst team in the country in terms of NPI. Only two other conferences have two teams in the bottom 20.  And 10 years ago this wouldn't have mattered, but it does now. The LL should be better than that.  Maybe we should be angry at NPI or those who supported this system instead of Hilbert and Buff State. and ICgrad it looks like Ithaca was close to making the pool C bid if they didn't beat the **** out of two of the worst teams in the country. this expanded system is great for pool c and those teams who didn't win their league right? 

And IC I don't want to blame anyone for Ithaca not making the playoffs but themselves and losing to Union but we can't hide our heads in the sand here. Any league with two teams in the bottom 20 NPI are seriously hurting their chances of pool c bids.

HSCtiger you are probably right about other teams but the LL just happened to have two of those teams in the league this year. 

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 16, 2025, 10:25:08 AM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2025, 10:17:33 AM

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 16, 2025, 09:53:55 AM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2025, 08:32:36 AM

Quote from: ICGrad on November 15, 2025, 06:53:40 PMAccording to the NPI playoff tracker, of the 13 at-large bids available this season, 6 will go to schools with 2 losses.

Ithaca, not even an honorable mention entering this weekend, ended 8-2 and 4 spots out of the final playoff spot. Their two losses were to the eventual LL champion, and to JHU, who entered the weekend with the #1 NPI but lost and ended #7.

Kind of have to wonder where Ithaca lands without Hilbert in the LL this season.

^ oh, and source for the above:

https://d3datacast.com/2025/11/09/2025-d3-football-playoff-npi-tracker/

Now this is actually important. 

Buffalo State in the league doesn't bother me as much because Ithaca might just play them anyway regardless of the conference, but Hilbert is probably a program that Ithaca would say "no thanks" to if Hilbert asked to play.  So that brings us to the question of what other OCC game would have impacted their SOS number.  Curry?  Bridgewater State again?  Endicott, Utica and Brockport are also possibilities but those aren't automatic wins either. 

I tried to throw in some random numbers in to some AI calculators and if Ithaca had scheduled and beaten Curry at home (they played there last year) instead of Hilbert, then Ithaca's NPI would be 65.8 instead of 63.2.  This would have put them at the 11th pool C spot and in the playoffs. 

If someone can confirm this either way please go ahead.  The numbers are the numbers on this one it appears.  I didn't factor in Curry's other game that would have been off the schedule (that Ithaca would have replaced) so not sure if AI factored that in.  It appeared that d3's datacast NPI page uses an embedded sheet that AI can't access easily so many of the calculations were estimates on what was available.

If this is right, than Hilbert 100% impacts the LL's pool C playoff spots.

You can see the full decomposition of Ithaca on Rossi's site: https://npi-gridiron-6dee1401.base44.app/publicteamdetail?team=Ithaca&season=2025&from=PublicTeamsRecords.

Because wins against both Hilbert and Buff St. would reduce Ithaca's NPI, they are excluded; thus, Ithaca's win/loss record for NPI's purposes is 6.2-2.2.  (The weird decimals are because NPI treat home/away wins/losses differently.)  If you had instead won a game against a team that about average relative to Ithaca's other countable games (NPI of ~55 - think TCNJ), your NPI win/loss record bumps up to 7.2-2.2, which is enough to boost your NPI ~1.2 points. (So, not quite the boost AI suggested.)

That would have been enough to make Ithaca the final Pool C bid this year.

That makes sense thank you.  But imagine Ithaca had two wins (looks like most top 25 teams had more) that don't even help you?  Those wins actually hurt Ithaca (and every other LL team who beat them). 

I guess there are other teams like Ithaca who could say the same.  Even Union played Morrisville State which doesn't count.

And another question.  Does beating Buffalo State by 22 points instead of 50 help Union or hurt them in terms of NPI? (EDIT it hurts them as like you said any NPI in a win less than that teams overall NPI isn't counted.....so does beating them by 200 matter?)

Yes, the more bad wins you can't count, the worse it is.  Union's NPI will make it a 10 seed; it's NPI W/L record is 5-2, because it had to drop Buff St., Hilbert and MoVille (because each actually lowers its NPI if included). The more of those games you replace with a decent team, the bigger the NPI boost.

On the Union-Buff St. score, doesn't matter, even if that game were included in Union's NPI.  NPI does not take margin of victory into account - it just looks at win, loss or tie (and whether you were home or away).

Ok so that's what I'm asking.  Ithaca beats Buff State and Union beats Buff State.  the "final Score (NPI)" is 52.9 for Ithaca and 64.7 for Union in that game.  The SOS is 10.05 for the IC game and 18.85 for the Union game. 

So am I correct in assuming that the SOS and ranking for that game is different for each team because when Ithaca plays Buffalo State, the Buffalo State/ Union game is factored in the SOS and vice versa.  And road wins count x1.1 vs away wins x.90.

Since Ithaca has a higher NPI than Union, Unions win over Buff state earns a higher sos and npi, because Buff States sos (and the sos impact on npi) is higher because of Buff States game vs Ithaca....

Not sure if that makes any sense, but it does seem clear that Ithaca could have made the playoffs if they beat pretty much anyone other than Hilbert since Hilbert had a 18.8 ranking (3rd worst in the nation) while teams like Hartwick (41.5), Alfred State (46.0), or Husson (45.8) would have gotten Ithaca (or RPI if they had won) a pool C bid.

Quote from: unionpalooza on November 16, 2025, 09:53:55 AM

Quote from: Jonny Utah on November 16, 2025, 08:32:36 AM

Quote from: ICGrad on November 15, 2025, 06:53:40 PMAccording to the NPI playoff tracker, of the 13 at-large bids available this season, 6 will go to schools with 2 losses.

Ithaca, not even an honorable mention entering this weekend, ended 8-2 and 4 spots out of the final playoff spot. Their two losses were to the eventual LL champion, and to JHU, who entered the weekend with the #1 NPI but lost and ended #7.

Kind of have to wonder where Ithaca lands without Hilbert in the LL this season.

^ oh, and source for the above:

https://d3datacast.com/2025/11/09/2025-d3-football-playoff-npi-tracker/

Now this is actually important. 

Buffalo State in the league doesn't bother me as much because Ithaca might just play them anyway regardless of the conference, but Hilbert is probably a program that Ithaca would say "no thanks" to if Hilbert asked to play.  So that brings us to the question of what other OCC game would have impacted their SOS number.  Curry?  Bridgewater State again?  Endicott, Utica and Brockport are also possibilities but those aren't automatic wins either. 

I tried to throw in some random numbers in to some AI calculators and if Ithaca had scheduled and beaten Curry at home (they played there last year) instead of Hilbert, then Ithaca's NPI would be 65.8 instead of 63.2.  This would have put them at the 11th pool C spot and in the playoffs. 

If someone can confirm this either way please go ahead.  The numbers are the numbers on this one it appears.  I didn't factor in Curry's other game that would have been off the schedule (that Ithaca would have replaced) so not sure if AI factored that in.  It appeared that d3's datacast NPI page uses an embedded sheet that AI can't access easily so many of the calculations were estimates on what was available.

If this is right, than Hilbert 100% impacts the LL's pool C playoff spots.

You can see the full decomposition of Ithaca on Rossi's site: https://npi-gridiron-6dee1401.base44.app/publicteamdetail?team=Ithaca&season=2025&from=PublicTeamsRecords.

Because wins against both Hilbert and Buff St. would reduce Ithaca's NPI, they are excluded; thus, Ithaca's win/loss record for NPI's purposes is 6.2-2.2.  (The weird decimals are because NPI treat home/away wins/losses differently.)  If you had instead won a game against a team that about average relative to Ithaca's other countable games (NPI of ~55 - think TCNJ), your NPI win/loss record bumps up to 7.2-2.2, which is enough to boost your NPI ~1.2 points. (So, not quite the boost AI suggested.)

That would have been enough to make Ithaca the final Pool C bid this year.

That makes sense thank you.  But imagine Ithaca had two wins (looks like most top 25 teams had more) that don't even help you?  Those wins actually hurt Ithaca (and every other LL team who beat them). 

I guess there are other teams like Ithaca who could say the same.  Even Union played Morrisville State which doesn't count.

And another question.  Does beating Buffalo State by 22 points instead of 50 help Union or hurt them in terms of NPI? (EDIT it hurts them as like you said any NPI in a win less than that teams overall NPI isn't counted.....so does beating them by 200 matter?)