FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[evacuee]

Coach H will be replaced only when he wants to go.  Since he's been there, they've had nearly the same amount of good seasons as they've had bad.  His win % is in the positive, but I think the worst seasons are ones in which the team underachieves, so I would count at least two 6-4 seasons (93,95) as bad years for the program.  Since then I know they've had one 9 win season in which they were demolished by Wittenberg.  You can count the years in which they were a contender for the conference on one hand really, and that goes back to 1988 when he started.

Yet, he's still there, mostly because I think he's well liked on campus and is seen as having the right value system for the school.  People will criticize because that's what football fans do, and though everyone has the right, anyone outside the program is out of line if they lobby to the university for a coaching change and that includes parents.  You need the university more than the university needs you.  Choosing a school is not like hiring an architect to build your home.  The school follows its agenda and you can participate or not.  The great thing about colleges is that they're all different, and if you don't like what that school is doing, there are other schools out there.  As far as OWU winning any championships, forget it.  It's not going to happen.  So if anyone's goal is to win championships, he shouldn't play football at OWU.  The education, however, is excellent and if that's all you need to be happy with your college experience, you're golden. 

If you have a problem with this particular coach, I think the length of his tenure demonstrates that you have a problem with OWU.

[evacuee]

Hey Darkside,

Barnes played at Augustana.  That's why he's there.  I doubt what you heard about Wooster's commitment to the football program had anything to do with his leaving.  They were a pretty serious conference contender when he left.  I doubt the administration could have done more to really influence their on field success.   

[kcreds]

TU2698- I agree with some of what I read in your post. The one part I disagree with is that you don't give OWU a chance to win championships. That is one part of your post I hope will be proven wrong, not only this year but the upcoming years. It sounds as if you are very familiar with OWU's past then me but I'm more concerned with the now and near future. I have faith that not only this year but upcoming years they will prove you wrong. If not then you can come back and say I told you so. I am however, going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

[aueagle]

TU: Tell a recruit to come to OWU for an outstanding education and life long connections. That is true. Do we also tell them they can get the same or close to, educational experience at a state school and obtain a better cost -value for their educational dollar at State U. as well? Why not, if we are going to tell them to report in August for two-a-days and work their tails off and maybe play to win but not really because we will never compete for championships. WHY DO WE PLAY THE GAME AND KEEP SCORE. GO BISHOPS

[DarkSide-D]

Tu, Great post,

I have a problem with your claim that OWU will not win championships and that if a player wants to win he should not go to OWU.  While I agree that OWU will not win a championship, this year, that is not to say in the near future they wont.  They have alot of talent this year, and that will lead to new talent coming to the school.  By your arguement, the class that graduated from Wooster last year should never have gone to Wooster, because they wanted to win a title.  Well, we did win it last year, even though last year's seniors went 4-6 in their first year.  It is up to the coaching staff to prove to perspective players that the school, and the team, are committed to winnning.  If they can accomplish that, then they will draw the talent to lead to a  championship team.  As far as OWU'S chances this year, I simply do not see it happening.  Perhaps in a couple of years.  Last year's strong showing at the end of the season, I am sure convinced some great talents to attend the school and play ball.

Also, I understand that wooster was a top tier team with Barnes as the coach, and I understand he choose Augustana for the opportunity to coach his Alma Mater, but the coach was told that he could not compete on a national level, as MUC.  Something that I am sure many coaches aspire to do.  What use is winning the conference title year in and year out (yes i know wooster did not do this) if you can't compete on a national level.  Otherwise, teams would not play in the playoffs.  By going to Augustana, Barnes was able to not only coach his alma mater, but also compete on a national level.  This is not to say that if he were told that Wooster could compete on a national level, that he may have stayed at Wooster, but I agree with my source that haveing been told that that it may have just solidified his choice, or reinforced.  I could be wrong.  Only coach Barnes could tell us for sure.

[DarkSide-D]

Oh, as far as the administration allowing for a programs success, consider this.

Prior to Coach Barnes, Wooster had only Coach Barnes as the full time Coach.  From my understanding, other athletic teams were required to assist in the football duties.  By allowing full time coaches, you were given a full time recruiting team, rather than a coach after the season switching gears and focusing only on his own respective sport.  This changed during Barnes term at Wooster.  He was given his own staff.  The point is, there is alot an administration can give to help a program.  Perhaps the school could give the team a larger budget to pay better coaches, or better equipment, or etc., etc.   This would help bring in new recruits.  Although Kenyon has a pathetic history the last few years, I am sure that their new complex, thanks to the administration, will open the eyes of a few talented prospects.

[scotty]

DarkSide-D,

interesting comments...can you elaborate on "competing on a national level"...does that include a broader geographic base for recruiting, an increase in roster numbers...or, any academic concession ala the old days at ND with Coach Holtz...

[DarkSide-D]

And on a side note, the year OWU went 9-1 (2001), who did they play.

Olivet (1-9), Waynesburg (3-7), Elmhurst, (2-8), Wooster (4-6), Earlham (5-5), Denison (2-8), Witt (11-2)(OWUs only loss), Kenyon (1-9), Oberlin (2-8), Gheny (5-5).  

Wow, they played one team with a winning record, and lost.  Thats impressive.  

[DarkSide-D]

Scotty, by competeing on a national level, I simply mean more talent.  From that, anything can be taken from my meaning.  I would never expect any school to sacrafice its academic standards to gain more talent.  With that said, It means you would have to find the talent, that meet the standards, ala, broader base if needed.  That does not mean more numbers.  In both High school and College, the championship teams I was a part of typically had lesser numbers the preceeding and following years.  more talent, not more numbers.

[scotty]

DarkSide-D, so what youre saying is more talent...if thats the case, why wouldnt the administration be all for it...could it be that it would affect the "balance" within athletics...Wooster seems to have done well in other sports such as basketball and baseball...i guess what im hearing is maybe more $ for recruiting not to players of course but travel and focus by the staff...

Wooster's roster is dominated with Ohio players which is natural but do see other states represented...

[wooscot]

Darkside-D does have a valid point with the Barnes departure.  There was always a bit of tension between the football staff and admissions when it came to recruiting.  Over the course of Barnes's tenure, the admissions requirements for football players became increasingly stringent, a distinct departure from when Barnes took the job to build up the program.  Once Wooster started winning and competing, the school decided to scale back the "football" admits, who were basically kids on the bubble admissions wise who were admitted b/c they played football.  A lot of that stopped, for whatever reason the last couple years of Barnes's stint and that did contribute to him leaving.  In fact, he almost left the year before for a school in Colorado, but decided to stick it out one more year.  When the Auggie job opened up, nobody thought he would stay at Wooster b/c Auggie had an established football program, not to mentione its Barnes's alma mater.  I think it frustrated Barnes and a lot of his staff at the time that they were not given the lee-way to bring in bubble athletes.  The harsh reality is, however, MUC and other perennial DIII powers do relax admission standards for its atheletes.  The NCAC schools are no exception, however, they tend to taper off that trend whenever their overall applicant numbers are up. 

[wally_wabash]

Has anybody actually done a study on what percentage of the kids that play football at MUC or ONU or Capital would have gotten admitted to NCAC institutions?  To my knowledge, that study doesn't exist.  How many of the kids that go to MUC or ONU or Capital or JCU or B-W also get recruited by Witt and Wooster and OWU but end up going to the OAC school not so much because they couldn't get in to the NCAC school but because the football experience is more appealing? 

My point here is that I think it's pretty narrow-minded of us to just assume that OAC schools play better football than the NCAC does simply because of admissions standards.  Those schools over in the OAC aren't bad schools.  In fact, they're pretty good schools.  They don't grade out as high as NCAC schools in your college ranking publication of choice, but they aren't community colleges either.  Have we ever stopped to consider the fact that maybe the biggest reason why OAC schools play football at a higher level, on average, than NCAC schools is because those institutions support the programs, on average, more than we do? 

I think that NCAC schools could compete for national championships in football without sacrificing their academic reputations or any of this other nonsense.  It takes serious support...as has been mentioned, funding for full time coaches, recruiting trips, etc. are big, big factors.  Every bit as big, if not more so, than the admissions standards we like to keep bringing up. 

[wally_wabash]

To follow up on the two pick 'em lines that were called into question earlier this week....

1) Witt @ Alma (even): Right now the picks stand 17 for Alma, 13 for Witt.  Looks like I could have made Alma a very slight favorite here, but anything more than a field goal probably tips the board heavily to Witt. 

2) Allegheny @ W&J (-24.5): 14 for Allegheny, 16 for W&J.  As far as point spreads doing what they're designed to do, this doesn't get much better. 

[DarkSide-D]

Once again, I think that teams can compete without risking its academic standards.  No school has ever been built around an athletic team.  On the contrary, its usually the team built around the school.  I personally never ment to call into question the standards of any OAC school, or any school outside the two main conferences in the area.  All I am saying is that some schools put more emphasis on bringing in talented players.  That translates into better recruiting.  Wooster, since I have been affiliated with the school, has done some great moves bringing in talent (Tony Sutton anyone?).  Wabash, clearly does well in recruiting, as does Witt.  OWU, will more than likely, due to its success at the end of last season,  have a good recruiting class this year.  This kinda goes back to my comments about Witt.  Witt no longer is the dominate choice of schools for recruits to the NCAC.  There are others to choose, and the recruit still has good chances of winning the title each year.

Wooscot thanks for you input on the Barnes discussion.  I was beginning to think I was whipping a dead horse.

[reality check]

How many of the kids that go to MUC or ONU or Capital or JCU or B-W also get recruited by Witt and Wooster and OWU but end up going to the OAC school not so much because they couldn't get in to the NCAC school but because the football experience is more appealing? 

I know of at least one...