MBB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[Willy Wonka]

Nites - A few years ago, I'd agree. However, the MSHSL has since banished the consolation bracket to the nether regions of the universe. So, under your hypothesis, if the two best teams played in the first round, the loser would be one-and-done. That's what the ranking system is seeking to avoid.

Drake, I see your point and it's very reasonable. But ae you really suggesting we judge a team based on a single snapshot? What if we viewed Sibley's loss to Mounds View, who finished with the exact same record as Tartan, in the same light as Mayo's loss? Mayo's best PG didn't even start playing varsity until the last 10 games of the season. I realize it's all we have in this instance, but it's a flawed way of thinking. Heck, my senior year we finished 23-2 and our two closest wins all year were to a winless Albert Lea team.

All I'm saying is that there's got to be a better way to run this system, because I like the premise behind it. Everyone knows coaches fudge on their section ranking to tweak the seeds the way they want, so I'm positive the state system won't be any different.

And, the metro schools already have the benefit of open enrollment anyway; the last time someone (D2 shooting guard) tried that in Rochester was Resto's class and it likely cost them a legit chance to beat Khalid's squads. He was Public Enemy #1 for many years and it hasn't been done since.

Prophet - I don't know for sure, but Brusewitz *did* transfer in from Litchfield because his dad got a new job in the cities. I don't believe the circumstances with the job to be in question.

[Nites]

Nites - A few years ago, I'd agree. However, the MSHSL has since banished the consolation bracket to the nether regions of the universe. So, under your hypothesis, if the two best teams played in the first round, the loser would be one-and-done. That's what the ranking system is seeking to avoid.

I didn't know they were running a double elimination tournament.  I think I'm more of a fan of the loser goes home tourney.

[Willy Wonka]

Nites - A few years ago, I'd agree. However, the MSHSL has since banished the consolation bracket to the nether regions of the universe. So, under your hypothesis, if the two best teams played in the first round, the loser would be one-and-done. That's what the ranking system is seeking to avoid.

I didn't know they were running a double elimination tournament.  I think I'm more of a fan of the loser goes home tourney.

They aren't — anymore. You used to be assured a second game, no matter how the first one went.

MIG - Be nice to those ladies at the gentlemen's club tonight. A bachelor party can be a dangerous night 

[Drake Palmer]

Drake, I see your point and it's very reasonable. But are you really suggesting we judge a team based on a single snapshot? What if we viewed Sibley's loss to Mounds View, who finished with the exact same record as Tartan, in the same light as Mayo's loss? Mayo's best PG didn't even start playing varsity until the last 10 games of the season...

No, that's why I listed three key games from the Mayo season body of work. I don't think we're that far apart on this one.  Based on how the seedings turned out, if you & I were mice in the corner of the room, we probably would have found out that Mayo was probably a close 5th seed.

I don't have the time to try to explain it, but I'm attaching a link to a website that tries to quantitatively rank MN HS basketball teams. This formula was developed by a MN HS hoops junkie/techno-weenie.  I say that affectionately since obviously I'm a hoops junkie myself, but certainly not a techno weenie.   8)

Briefly, the QRF is sort of a Strength of Schedule formula, that becomes more accurate as the season progresses and more games have been played.  By the way, this guy lives in out-state MN, west central Minnesota I believe, & no known metro bias.  And even with the QRF, Mayo was ranked down in the middle tier of teams.  On the left hand side of the page is a link that explains how he developed this formula.  And yes, there are people who take potshots at this approach as well.  Like the MSHSL system, it's not perfect but a good place to start.

MN Scores - QRF Rankings

For example, I only saw Osseo play once this year against an overmatched Mpls South & was not that impressed by Osseo.

[sumander]

I don't have the time to try to explain it, but I'm attaching a link to a website that tries to quantitatively rank MN HS basketball teams. This formula was developed by a MN HS hoops junkie/techno-weenie.  I say that affectionately since obviously I'm a hoops junkie myself, but certainly not a techno weenie.   8)

Briefly, the QRF is sort of a Strength of Schedule formula, that becomes more accurate as the season progresses and more games have been played.  By the way, this guy lives in out-state MN, west central Minnesota I believe, & no known metro bias.  And even with the QRF, Mayo was ranked down in the middle tier of teams.  On the left hand side of the page is a link that explains how he developed this formula.  And yes, there are people who take potshots at this approach as well.  Like the MSHSL system, it's not perfect but a good place to start.

MN Scores - QRF Rankings

DP, the formula was developed by Ryan Weinzerl. Ryan is a MSU grad. He went to High School in Park Rapids. He does a fair bit of officiating in this neck of the woods. His dad is Jim Weinzerl. I know Jim does MIAC, NCC and NSIC games. There actually is another brother that officiates as well. I know in the section 8AAA championship 3 years ago the 3 Weinzerls worked the game!

Looking at the track record of the QRF it is very accurate.

[concordia of the north]

Wonka:

Regarding Sibley's loss to MV.  MV's record is misleading.  They had 7 losses, and six of them were to stillwater, cretin derham, shakopee, and then cooper in either the section semis or championship.  Not that you need frame of reference as I'm sure you know about all of those teams, but all 4 of them are in the top 10 of that AAAA ranking Palmer just posted.

MV was a good team that had enough long kids to match up with Sibley's long kids.

[piperinsider]

Brusewitz is from Litch, so I'd assume it was his brother. And, yes, his dad got a job in the Cities, so the transfer is legit.

Anyone think Minnesota Transitions should be in a different class than A?

[AO]

Ellsworth will beat transitions, and neither team needs to move up a class.  eliminate 2 classes and give us the sweet 16. 

maybe a final 4 after the 4 classes are decided.  I don't care if the 4A school wins 10 in a row- there can only be one. 

also, anybody see the ending to the New London/Spicer vs Maple River game?  Maple River down 3 with 15 seconds left hits a three and gets fouled, makes the free throw, NL-S comes down and gets a putback by #51 with about 5 seconds to go, Maple River gets a good look at a game-winning layup before being swatted away by #51.  Maple River coach runs around on the floor with the ball in hand trying to beg for the goal-tending (it wasn't). Refs take a look at it for a couple minutes before sending the Wildcats to the championship game.

[Drake Palmer]

Ellsworth will beat transitions, and neither team needs to move up a class.  eliminate 2 classes and give us the sweet 16. 

maybe a final 4 after the 4 classes are decided.  I don't care if the 4A school wins 10 in a row- there can only be one. 

also, anybody see the ending to the New London/Spicer vs Maple River game?  Maple River down 3 with 15 seconds left hits a three and gets fouled, makes the free throw, NL-S comes down and gets a putback by #51 with about 5 seconds to go, Maple River gets a good look at a game-winning layup before being swatted away by #51.  Maple River coach runs around on the floor with the ball in hand trying to beg for the goal-tending (it wasn't). Refs take a look at it for a couple minutes before sending the Wildcats to the championship game.

I like the idea of combining AAAA & AAA together, & going back to a 3 class tourney.
If the MSHSL did that we would have approximate class sizes of 128 schools in AAAA, 130 or so in AA, & 128 in A.

That was a sweet, gutsy, ballsy block.  Plus I wanted NLS to win because I hated Maple Rivers' uniforms. Nice color combination of green and blue & that's the best they can come up with?  Yikes.  They were almost as bad as the current pinkish primer color being used for contrast on the message boards. I hope the site's spring cleaning of the message board ends soon. 

Can you say the Big 10 gets whacked???  I guess in the "reasons to be grateful" department, since all of the NCAA games were routs last night it gave me a chance to finish up my taxes & visit user friendly FAFSA.  Yuck.

Go get em Winona State Warriors, Sibley Warriors, MN Transitions, NLS, & Benilde! 

[columbianmaffia]

yes it is the younger brother of the older Brusewitz from litchfield

sumander-
post 1000 nears but post 1033 is a bigger mile stone for me

drake-
everyone wants to interview me...i think?

im in chicago last night and the boombalahties served me up a double gyros with extra tzatziki sauce...the juices were running down the side of my face at 4am and the boombalahties were giggling and wiping it off for me

[piperinsider]

No. 51 from NLS is Wade Powers. That was a nice run of seven seconds from him. First the putback, then the block.

Go Davidson!

[Gregory Sager]

Update from Heath Hotzler of the Fool-Em on the NDSCS coaching vacancy:

The finalists for the North Dakota State College of Science men's basketball job are University of Mary assistant Kevin Forde, Kilgore (Texas) College coach Scott Schumacher, Scottdale (Ariz.) Community College coach Paul Eberhardt and Fort Dorchester (S.C.) High School coach Gregg Gierke.

Schumacher could have the inside track here. He's the president of the NJCAA Coaches Association, and the junior college representative to the USA Basketball selection committee.

Gierke is also an interesting candidate. He built up more than 400 wins as a JUCO coach in Florida and Illinois.

Gierke also has three D3 national championship rings. He was the backup point guard on North Park's first three title teams, 1977-78, 1978-79, and 1979-80. Following his graduation in 1980, he went on to become an assistant coach at Carthage before he embarked upon a head coaching career that has taken him to Kishwaukee Community College (a north-central Illinois juco), Colorado Christian University (a D2 school in Colorado Springs), and Florida Community College (a juco in Jacksonville) before his current stint as the head coach of a high school in Charleston, SC.

[Drake Palmer]

Cmob - if you're ever slumming it & are on the east side, (St. Paul) swing by the Black Sea restaurant on Snelling over by Hamline & pick up the Black Sea combo for takeout.  Not many boombahlaties, but there's enough food in one of those combos to feed a small family.  I'm guessing PI's stopped  by there.

PI- I think Crosby Ironton looks very tough & that could be one physical matchup with NLS.  I like NLS but C-I looks pretty stony.  The matchup in AAA with the Catholics going at it ought to be a good one too.

Since Davidson blew out one of my brackets I'm riding the Sweet Curry bandwagon for as long as they've got wheels to keep rolling...into a Jayhawk.  I can't believe that kid.
 

[Nites]

Congrats to Winona State, 87-76 winners over Augusta.  They were down by as much as 16 in the first half and trailed by 12 at the break.  John Smith was getting stuffed inside by Augusta's mammoth 6'11" 300 lb center so he goes outside and drops 4 treys in 4 tries (he only made 15 all year).  Flowers, who dropped in 30, and a FY guard, Fischer, fueled the second half comeback. 

The Warriors finish the year at 38-1.  Only 2 losses in 3 years, one of those being this year to the D-III Tommies.  I still can't get over that Tommie win, which is why I was so disappointed that lasted 1 game in the tourney.

[abominable_snowman]

Cmob - if you're ever slumming it & are on the east side, (St. Paul) swing by the Black Sea restaurant on Snelling over by Hamline & pick up the Black Sea combo for takeout.  Not many boombahlaties, but there's enough food in one of those combos to feed a small family.  I'm guessing PI's stopped  by there.

PI- I think Crosby Ironton looks very tough & that could be one physical matchup with NLS.  I like NLS but C-I looks pretty stony.  The matchup in AAA with the Catholics going at it ought to be a good one too.

Since Davidson blew out one of my brackets I'm riding the Sweet Curry bandwagon for as long as they've got wheels to keep rolling...into a Jayhawk.  I can't believe that kid.
 

Curry has done a fantastic job of cementing a name for himself.  He is the wow factor this year.