Future of Division III

[jknezek]

I am old, and as much as value the opinion of other old guys...

I asked my 26-year old colleague who works in admissions and also works part-time for her sorority as a consultant. She said that Maryville would not be alone in believing that Greek life can be a part of a compelling enrollment strategy.  It is apparently less about drinking and more about TikTok, Instagram or something.

Knock on effect from a few reality tv shows right now. The sororities at major d1 southern schools have really leaned into it. I think it started in Tuscaloosa and has spread like a plague.

But it's simply not transferable to small school start up Greek life. The shows are popular because they portray Greek life as cutthroat to get into your preferred house, and once in, all the young women are attractive and doing dances and cheers and fun activities during rush.

It takes huge amounts of money, and serious numbers, to have 20 or 30 women doing acrobatics to attract new members while 50-60 more members are dressed to the nines screaming and cheering them on.

Small schools aren't going to be able to replicate that, and the shows will get tiresome eventually. Meanwhile the problems that come with frat houses will proliferate. I'm not anti-Greek, I was a brother, but I think schools looking to start it up are underestimating the effort and issues while reaching for straws of short-lived popularity.

[WUPHF]

But it's simply not transferable to small school start up Greek life.

I hear you, though I am just saying what my colleague said.

As part of her role, she travels to chapters around the United States to colleges big and small.

I did read an interesting Substack recently that made the case that a vigorous co-curricular experience would become even more important for small colleges... I've been trying to find it, but have not had any luck.

[jknezek]

The other thing I would point out is school's generally have 2 ways to go with greek houses. 1) the school owns them, maintain thems (using member fees), and regulates activities in the house. Which means they have to build out these "houses" or take them from somewhere else on campus. If they are too strictly regulated, they become just another dorm. And if they are too loosely regulated, they develop other issues. Or 2) you have the greek organization itself manage the houses. These tend to create gown/town problems if they aren't on school property, are hard to regulate, and have reputational effects.

You see these huge "houses" on these TV shows and they are like luxury dorms provided by the school. UA sorority houses are on campus mansions basically. That takes a whole lot of money. Decades ago W&L's frats were basically owned by the greek organizations. By the mid-80s, they were in serious disrepair, to the point of being dangerous. The school came in and, at significant expense, bought them, renovated them to meet multi-housing living codes, and basically rented them back to the greek organizations. The houses all have "house mothers" living in them permanently, school provided maintenance people, and are required to be maintained to a certain standard.

It also makes it easy for the University to throw frats off campus if they get in trouble, let alone regulate what goes on in the houses. But it's not cheap for the school or the members. And the UA sororities are the same. They are stupid expensive to be members. Yet another reason why, I think, the fascination will wear off sooner rather than later.

I'm not disputing the "younger" viewpoint, but I think we also have to accept that your colleague is a consultant to a sorority and is going to have a certain point of view because of it. I know I was a lot more "pro-greek" when I was in college. Now I think of it all as an expensive way to have exclusive parties, and a lot of dumb stuff I did for 6 months to prove I was worthy of being in the "in crowd." Was fun though.

[Ralph Turner]

... . I think it started in Tuscaloosa and has spread like a plague.

A lot of plagues started in Tuscaloosa...      

WAR EAGLE!!! 

(Football season cannot start soon enough!)

[DriftlessDuhawk]

At many small liberal arts colleges without Greek systems, sports teams often function similarly to fraternities, including mostly living together in on- or off-campus houses that nominally may not be restricted to members of the team, but functionally operate that way.

I have been asked in my professional life what type of organizations I was in during my undergrad years and have been asked if I was in a fraternity. I always respond that I was in no such thing! Now I was in a male only organization in which we all shared a common set of beliefs, all hung out together, lived together in houses that were not always the most well kept, and would walk around campus with a slightly elevated ego. But a frat? No way!

We just wanted to win football games! 

[y_jack_lok]

I have been asked in my professional life what type of organizations I was in during my undergrad years and have been asked if I was in a fraternity. I always respond that I was in no such thing! Now I was in a male only organization in which we all shared a common set of beliefs, all hung out together, lived together in houses that were not always the most well kept, and would walk around campus with a slightly elevated ego. But a frat? No way!

While I enjoyed being in a fraternity at that point in my life I was, nevertheless, "different" from the majority of my fraternity brothers. Didn't party hard and was the guy who stayed up after the parties to clean the fraternity house. And it never occurred to me to include my fraternity membership on a resume thinking it might in some way advance my hireability. And I'm not sure fraternity membership ever came up in a job interview.

[IC798891]

Ithaca does not have Greek Life on campus, however, they have many Residential Learning Communities which connect students with shared interests.

[WUPHF]

Ithaca does not have Greek Life on campus, however, they have many Residential Learning Communities which connect students with shared interests.

I am surprised when I find a college that does not have learning communities, they are that common. But also very different that the Greek letter organizations.

[MCScots2013]

Lots to unpack after a day on the road. Thanks for all the input on Greek life. Couple of thoughts:

-School newspaper mentioned a Greek system consultant has been retained. Must be a serious inquiry.
-I think MC is 90% residential and has limited space left. Total enrollment is roughly 1,150 with space for around another 100-150. Housing would be a definite concern for a Greek system. With the local market in a boom phase, no way they'd buy houses. The Alexander Institute is soon to break ground ($80M science facility) and Carnegie Hall (upper class dorm) is in dire need of repairs. Don't see new housing on the to-do list soon.
-To Doug's point about community and inclusiveness,  not sure what it was like when you attended, but there were groups on campus (other than the Dekes) that mimicked Greek life that was unique to MC. I was not part of those groups. Didn't see the point of those groups; didn't see the point of joining DKE. They were the only ones on campus and I still hung out with them and saved dues. Would I have participated if we had actual Greek life? More than likely.
-Funny timing for the comment about more about TikTok and less about partying. Was listening to a recent podcast and 2 points were made: younger people are drinking much less than older generations and they are also having less sex (a correlation maybe?). Also heard a viewpoint that kids today are less likely to do things we may have done in school because they are scared of everything being filmed. Snapchat rolled out spring semester of my senior year—back when it disappeared after 3 seconds. Thank God...

Might as well announce M&W Lacrosse for 2028(ish) and recruit those students to fill up half of the available spots.

[MCScots2013]

Forgot to add: Wrestling. Bring it back. It's time.

It's big in the area and we had a great program back in the day. Plenty of local high schools to recruit from. There's enough Wrestling alums still around the program could raise a good amount of money with the news.

[DagarmanSpartan]

What are some thoughts on Greek life for small colleges and universities? 

Looking back, I'm not sure that I answered your question very directly.

In general, Greek Life can vary from school to school.  At CWRU, which had about 3000+ undergrads in my time, and 6500+ today, Greek Life did not include a majority of students.  HOWEVER, it did include MOST of the "party" life on campus.  Nearly all undergraduate students lived on campus, and if you wanted to party, you didn't have much choice but to join a Greek organization and live in their house, simply because the dorms had so many more rules concerning drinking, partying, etc.  That said, plenty of people preferred to stay in the dorms.  Can't say that I would like that.  I spent my first two months of college in a dorm and was absolutely bored out of my mind.  The minute I had a chance to move into a frat house, I did, and I stayed there the remaining four years.

That said.

The Greek organizations at CWRU were not overly wild and crazy.

I've seen what Greek life is like at big state universities, and it's WAAAAAAAY over the top wild and crazy.

Had I gone to a school like that for undergrad, I might have reservations about joining a Greek org.  There are probably lots of other fun things to do on a really big campus, and Greeks there would likely be too wild for me.

So given that, I'd say small college Greek Life, a la CWRU, Carnegie-Mellon, MIT, etc., is probably about right and a positive.

So you're probably thinking, well, for schools like those three, sure.  But what about small liberal arts colleges like yours?

Well, I guess I would look to schools like Sewanee, Rhodes College, and W&L.  All three have very large, well-established Greek systems which play a huge role in campus life and traditions.

I would assume that all three schools use their powerhouse Greek systems as a recruiting tool, so perhaps Maryville could do that as well if it invited Greeks on campus.

If that happens, let me know.  I can contact my own fraternity HQ (Sigma Nu), and see if they'd be interested in forming a colony there.

[WUPHF]

I'm not disputing the "younger" viewpoint, but I think we also have to accept that your colleague is a consultant to a sorority and is going to have a certain point of view because of it.

It is true, just one viewpoint from someone who has a part-time role in promoting Greek life.

She does travel to a lot of small colleges and believes, based on her experience, that Greek life can bolster student life in a way enrollment, retention, etc. That you do not need the Southern mansion experience to sell Greek life as an aspect of the experience.

I am agnostic on Greek life as an enrollment driver, but I do believe that the things an institution offers other than academics are going to be even more important going forward, unfortunately.

[DagarmanSpartan]

Digging a little deeper on the subject of Greek Life at small liberal arts colleges, I did some research on the NESCAC, which is famous for having "elite" small liberal arts colleges.

Excluding Tufts (which I would not describe as a liberal arts college, but which has Greek life), Weslayan, Trinity, and Hamilton all have Greek systems.  At least two schools where Greek life used to be big (Amherst and Bowdoin), have since abolished it.  Nevertheless, those three might be good existing models.

In Ohio, small liberal arts colleges like Kenyon, Mount Union, Denison, Ohio Weslayan, John Carroll, and Wittenberg all have solid Greek systems.  They might provide models to emulate as well.

To be honest though, I am inclined to agree with WUPHF and be "agnostic" on whether Greek Life drives enrollment.  NESCAC schools that have abolished Greek Life don't seem to have been badly impacted by the move, enrollment-wise.  OTOH, it'd be hard to imagine Sewanee and W&L without Greek Life, and were it abolished at either of those schools, it might hurt.

[MCScots2013]

I'm becoming that way as well (agnostic towards Greek life that is).  Space is at a premium and max capacity for us would be an additional 150.  Not to beat the dead horse, but M&W LAX and Men's Wrestling would take care of that.  MC added Stunt last year (also added M&W Track recently), so there is one more women's varsity sport than men's.  Would be even if adding the other sports--not sure how or if Title IX would come into play.

Dagarman...I'm assuming Greek organizations are feeling the same pain institutions are and are becoming competitive when new markets for them open up.  I'm a newbie to the "Life" but know Sigma Nu is a known name.  I'm sure they'd love a referral!