FB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Patrick Coleman]

Without the numbers for a second, what did John Carroll do?
1. Beat the sixth-place team in the WIAC.
2. Lose to Mount Union by 23.

The resume doesn't really stand out. Certainly not to the point where JCU obviously must get in the playoffs.

[thunderdog]

To have 3 teams from the MIAA in the final North regional rankings puts way way way too much emphasis on SOS and win %. The MIAA champ lost to a 5-5 Millikin team (4-5 CCIW). What results by Olivet or Albion suggest they finish any better than .500 in the CCIW, OAC, or (to a lesser extent - in 2019) NCAC? I'm not seeing anything at all.

[wally_wabash]

To have 3 teams from the MIAA in the final North regional rankings puts way way way too much emphasis on SOS and win %. The MIAA champ lost to a 5-5 Millikin team (4-5 CCIW). What results by Olivet or Albion suggest they finish any better than .500 in the CCIW, OAC, or (to a lesser extent) NCAC? I'm not seeing anything at all.

Too much emphasis on win percentage?  Winning games should be de-emphasized?  I don't know about that one. 

[thunderdog]

To have 3 teams from the MIAA in the final North regional rankings puts way way way too much emphasis on SOS and win %. The MIAA champ lost to a 5-5 Millikin team (4-5 CCIW). What results by Olivet or Albion suggest they finish any better than .500 in the CCIW, OAC, or (to a lesser extent) NCAC? I'm not seeing anything at all.

Too much emphasis on win percentage?  Winning games should be de-emphasized?  I don't know about that one.

When comparing 7-3 teams to 8-2 teams, sure, I think a deeper look into quality of opponents is warranted

[USee]

Pat, unrelated website question: I don't know how hard this would be but one suggestion is to give each team in the SOS ranking a hyperlink to their schedule, like you have on the team section of the site. It would be cool to be able to just click on the teams in the SOS listing and see their opponents.

[wally_wabash]

To have 3 teams from the MIAA in the final North regional rankings puts way way way too much emphasis on SOS and win %. The MIAA champ lost to a 5-5 Millikin team (4-5 CCIW). What results by Olivet or Albion suggest they finish any better than .500 in the CCIW, OAC, or (to a lesser extent) NCAC? I'm not seeing anything at all.

Too much emphasis on win percentage?  Winning games should be de-emphasized?  I don't know about that one.

When comparing 7-3 teams to 8-2 teams, sure, I think a deeper look into quality of opponents is warranted

I think it's hard to "yeah, but" your way around losing 30% of your games.  In the past we've kind of been able to figure out how many SOS points could make up for an extra loss, or how what kind of vRRO results could offset an extra loss.  This year it looks like the RACs have really widened that gap that exists between 1-loss and 2-loss teams.  There's a premium on winning games, which isn't necessarily a bad thing IMO. 

[USee]

And the consolation prize for losing 3 games is your 1 loss opponent becomes a bystander in the WashU lost to Millikin at home in OT, Hope lost to Millikin on the road, Olivet lost to Hope and Albion, Albion lost to.....

All of which affects their ability to play in the post season.

[thunderdog]

Wally & Pat,

Off the top of your collective head... has

How many examples to we have where 1 region accounts for 3 pool C's? Your latest mock bracket has 3 from the West, 1 from the North, 1 from the East, with the South getting skunked. How much emphasis is placed, if any, on having all regions represented? I know there's at least 1 example of the East getting skunked (can't remember the year, 2017 maybe?), but I can't recall an example of 1 region receiving 3 spots.

[wally_wabash]

Wally & Pat,

Off the top of your collective head... has

How many examples to we have where 1 region accounts for 3 pool C's? Your latest mock bracket has 3 from the West, 1 from the North, 1 from the East, with the South getting skunked. How much emphasis is placed, if any, on having all regions represented? I know there's at least 1 example of the East getting skunked (can't remember the year, 2017 maybe?), but I can't recall an example of 1 region receiving 3 spots.

You have to go all the way back to 2018 to find the last time one region received three Pool C bids. 

[thunderdog]

Wally & Pat,

Off the top of your collective head... has

How many examples to we have where 1 region accounts for 3 pool C's? Your latest mock bracket has 3 from the West, 1 from the North, 1 from the East, with the South getting skunked. How much emphasis is placed, if any, on having all regions represented? I know there's at least 1 example of the East getting skunked (can't remember the year, 2017 maybe?), but I can't recall an example of 1 region receiving 3 spots.

You have to go all the way back to 2018 to find the last time one region received three Pool C bids.

[CardinalAlum]

NCC could be out or they could get a home game. And if NCCs season is over it’s driven largely by factors they had no part in. A WashU lost at home in OT to Millikin, a UWW team that doesn’t win on the final night (losing on the final night gets you a 2 seed? While NCC loses early to a 1 seed and stays home).

Crazy town

Whether we get in or not, the process is flawed.  John Carroll also deserves to be in.

Who is out so John Carroll can be in?

And based on what should John Carroll be in?

How about one of those teams from certain conferences that get beat every year by 40 points in the first round of the playoffs?  I know they’re conference champions but it’s frustrating that some of the best teams in the country get left out every year.  I know there is no way of fixing that but it’s frustrating. 

[CardinalAlum]

To have 3 teams from the MIAA in the final North regional rankings puts way way way too much emphasis on SOS and win %. The MIAA champ lost to a 5-5 Millikin team (4-5 CCIW). What results by Olivet or Albion suggest they finish any better than .500 in the CCIW, OAC, or (to a lesser extent - in 2019) NCAC? I'm not seeing anything at all.

This is along the lines of my argument.

[Patrick Coleman]

How about one of those teams from certain conferences that get beat every year by 40 points in the first round of the playoffs?  I know they're conference champions but it's frustrating that some of the best teams in the country get left out every year.  I know there is no way of fixing that but it's frustrating.

Maybe let's just stick with discussing the actual system we have rather than trying to answer the question by rewriting the Division III philosophy of championship access.

[CardinalAlum]

How about one of those teams from certain conferences that get beat every year by 40 points in the first round of the playoffs?  I know they're conference champions but it's frustrating that some of the best teams in the country get left out every year.  I know there is no way of fixing that but it's frustrating.

Maybe let's just stick with discussing the actual system we have rather than trying to answer the question by rewriting the Division III philosophy of championship access.

Sounds good.

[HScoach]

How about one of those teams from certain conferences that get beat every year by 40 points in the first round of the playoffs?  I know they're conference champions but it's frustrating that some of the best teams in the country get left out every year.  I know there is no way of fixing that but it's frustrating.

Maybe let's just stick with discussing the actual system we have rather than trying to answer the question by rewriting the Division III philosophy of championship access.

Not many of you have been around ling enough to remember the old 16 team format where the entire field was subject to opinion based selection .  That was a mess.  Much better than what D1 was doing at the time which was nothing, but still a mess. 

The AQ system we have now is good.  Would I like a few more Pool C teams, sure.  But only a few more.  Under no circumstances do i want to see D3 football become like the NCAA men's B-ball tournament where. 500 power conference teams are in. 

EVERY team to start the season should have a path to a title.  The AQ does that.   Yes, some conferences suck,  ha e for a long time and will continue to do so, but those teams deserve a shot too. 

It's simplistic to say, but the path is win all your games.   When you don't,  you're at the mercy of others.

And for the record,  JCU has no business being in the field this season.  Good defense,  but absolutely no offense.   They would likely get steam rolled by anyone other than the 7 or 8 seeds.