Top 25 talk

[Darryl Nester]

How They Fared (Complete)

Top 25

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#1	617	Trinity (Conn.)	14-0	won at Worcester State, 99-49; won at Middlebury, 79-62; won at T#36 Williams, 73-57
#2	601	Randolph-Macon	12-1	LOST at Averett, 60-62; won at Guilford, 83-73
#3	543	Emory	11-1	won at Rochester, 95-90
#4	522	Chicago	11-1	def. #8 Washington U., 85-62
#5	505	Mount Union	15-0	won at Marietta, 87-72; won at Wilmington, 84-77
#6	494	UW-La Crosse	11-3	LOST at #21 UW-Oshkosh, 115-121 OT; LOST at UW-Platteville, 78-89
#7	459	Mary Washington	13-1	def. Swarthmore, 70-49
#8	451	Washington U.	10-2	LOST at #4 Chicago, 62-85
#9	436	St. Thomas (Texas)	12-1	def. University of Dallas, 76-62; def. Austin, 86-46
#10	416	Montclair State	14-0	won at New Jersey City, 97-70; def. Stockton, 94-92
#11	384	Claremont-Mudd-Scripps	14-0	def. Occidental, 94-86; def. T#38 Chapman, 77-64
#12	316	Redlands	11-2	won at Caltech, 107-82; def. Cal Lutheran, 97-62
#13	315	Tufts	13-2	won at Bowdoin, 81-69; won at Colby, 88-66
#14	252	UW-Stevens Point	13-1	won at UW-Whitewater, 79-71; def. #21 UW-Oshkosh, 84-73
#15	216	Roanoke	9-4	won at Shenandoah, 77-34; LOST to Washington and Lee, 57-58
#16	186	Calvin	10-3	def. Alma, 91-78; won at Adrian, 92-68
#17	180	UW-Eau Claire	12-2	LOST at UW-Platteville, 55-88; won at UW-Stout, 68-66
#18	166	Illinois Wesleyan	12-3	def. Augustana, 88-79; def. #34 North Park, 79-59
#19	142	Gustavus Adolphus	13-1	won at St. Olaf, 90-63; def. Minnesota-Morris, 73-54
#20	136	Christopher Newport	14-3	def. #24 Johns Hopkins, 68-65
#21	120	UW-Oshkosh	11-3	def. #6 UW-La Crosse, 121-115 OT; LOST at #14 UW-Stevens Point, 73-84
#22	80	Endicott	13-1	def. Western New England, 73-58; won at Hartford, 92-83
#23	73	York (Pa.)	11-2	won at Eastern, 86-69; LOST to #29 Hood, 78-95
#24	70	Johns Hopkins	10-3	LOST at #20 Christopher Newport, 65-68; def. Gettysburg, 58-56
#25	67	WPI	10-2	def. Middlebury, 85-57; def. Springfield, 99-53

Others receiving votes

Rank	Pts	Team	W-L	Results
#26	64	Catholic	10-3	won at Moravian, 90-80; def. (n) Drew, 78-70
T#27	61	Hampden-Sydney	9-4	def. Guilford, 92-79; won at Bridgewater (Va.), 80-67
T#27	61	Bates	11-3	LOST at Amherst, 50-71; LOST at Hamilton, 69-74
#29	50	Hood	11-2	won at Albright, 114-95; won at #23 York (Pa.), 95-78
#30	45	Elizabethtown	10-3	LOST to Scranton, 62-74; LOST at Wilkes, 69-87
#31	34	Trinity (Texas)	11-3	def. Oglethorpe, 102-74; def. Berry, 87-66
#32	24	Franklin and Marshall	12-1	def. Haverford, 76-52; won at McDaniel, 78-59
#33	8	John Carroll	11-4	LOST to Ohio Wesleyan, 90-106; won at Kenyon, 88-67
#34	6	North Park	10-4	LOST at #18 Illinois Wesleyan, 59-79
#35	5	Muskingum	11-3	LOST at Ohio Northern, 65-73
T#36	4	Williams	10-4	won at Springfield, 65-49; LOST to T#38 Wesleyan, 71-84; LOST to #1 Trinity (Conn.), 57-73
T#36	4	Maryville (Tenn.)	11-4	IDLE
T#38	3	Chapman	8-5	LOST at Cal Lutheran, 69-70; LOST at #11 Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, 64-77
T#38	3	Wesleyan	11-4	won at T#36 Williams, 84-71; won at Middlebury, 86-62
T#40	2	Cortland	8-4	def. Fredonia, 70-51; def. SUNY New Paltz, 78-48; LOST to SUNY Oneonta, 75-79
T#40	2	Whitworth	10-3	won at Whitman, 87-57; won at Linfield, 83-66
T#42	1	New York U.	9-3	LOST at Brandeis, 85-88
T#42	1	Union	10-2	won at RPI, 76-59; won at Ithaca, 81-73

[D3BBALL]

There is zero subjectivity in Jay's voting zero. No one can say otherwise.

I'm saying otherwise, because it is subjective. It's his choice to assemble his ballot any way that he likes, and that alone -- the fact that he chooses to do it that way using that formula he's devised, that no one can force him to do it differently, and that he's free to change his way of filling out his ballot at his discretion -- makes it subjective.

There is nothing in this world more subjective than each of the endless possibilities that are opened up to someone by free will. "Two plus two equals four" is objective; it's a teleological statement that admits no other options that are correct. "Two plus x equals four" is objective as well, because you're limited to one correct answer in solving for x. "Two plus x equals y" is subjective, because you can't force an objective conclusion when two or more variables whose values you get to choose have expanded an entire range of possibilities.

Would be no fun because there would be no subjectivity

But using Jays formula there is zero subjectivity or a way to react to that.

Fun to disagree on something so unimportant.

Agreed.

Another reason I don't think his formula is accurate enough, and that he just uses the formula period, is that I think he takes last week's top 25 votes in his formula to determine his rankings for this week. Maybe I am wrong, but I know he can't take this week's votes as they are not out yet and they need his votes first. I ran the numbers for 3-4 teams, and they fell in line with what he has on his top 25 today. Trinity is number 2 in his ranking this week, based on teams' rankings from a week ago. I don't think anyone else is looking at where teams stood a week previous when determining their rankings or using data that is a week old. They are looking at present data and what all the teams did as of the day they are voting. 

[Gregory Sager]

Another reason I don't think his formula is accurate enough, and that he just uses the formula period, is that I think he takes last week's top 25 votes in his formula to determine his rankings for this week. Maybe I am wrong, but I know he can't take this week's votes as they are not out yet and they need his votes first. I ran the numbers for 3-4 teams, and they fell in line with what he has on his top 25 today. Trinity is number 2 in his ranking this week, based on teams' rankings from a week ago. I don't think anyone else is looking at where teams stood a week previous when determining their rankings or using data that is a week old. They are looking at present data and what all the teams did as of the day they are voting. 

I've already told you this, but I guess that I have to say it again: You're directing an argument at me regarding things that I've never disputed.

I neither defend nor criticize this particular poll ballot submitted by Jay Murry, nor do I defend or criticize his methodology.

I said that seven days ago, and it still holds true. If you want to argue about Jay's ballot or his voting methodology or his formula in particular, go do it with someone who disagrees with you. As for me, I don't care one way or the other. How Jay, or you, or anybody else, feels about Trinity (CT) vis-a-vis the D3hoops.com Top 25 means nothing to me. The reason why I challenged you was because you said that Jay wasn't subjective, not because you said that Jay was wrong.