MBB: NESCAC

[D3BALL13]

I don't know if this is the best metric or the worst metric to decide this but Cuevas, Vetter, Okorougo, are just better at basketball than Pohlman. I think we get way too bogged down by stats when doing these. If you asked 100 D3 basketball fans to watch these teams play without knowing who was who and then asked them who the best player was, Pohlman would get the 4th most votes. I don't know that people would think he is better than Wolinski either

this is a horrible metric to decide POTY, in my opinion. Yes, those three are more "talented" than Pohlman, but talent doesn't always indicate impact on a team. All four have been huge for their respective squads, but Pohlman just happens to be on the one that is in first place. We are now trying to discredit him for that when before the season, Wesleyan was being written off due to their losses.

[SpringSt7]

I did not use the word talented, I said better. Jared Berry is more talented than Henry Vetter. Pohlman is far more "talented" than Pouye or Dan Civello. Those are different. All of the guys I mentioned are better at basketball than Pohlman

[D3BBALL]

D3bball, I understand that YOU consider only the 10 official league games, but I've never understood that to be the actual criteria used by the coaches in determining player of the year.  It's not "best player exclusively in league games."  It's certainly fair to weigh those more heavily but if someone was brilliant for those ten games and stank in the other 14 games, they would not, and should not, be POTY. 

That is an interesting point, and hard to say exactly what criteria the coaches look at. I don't think they got it right last year on a number of selections, not just on Morgan but on others that had no right being selected as a top 14 player in the league. So not sure how many coaches actually spend time doing their homework. Also don't know if coaches can choose their own players, so that hurts as well both ways. And do some coaches not vote some players in, based on dislike?
Before last year, I think there was a pretty much agreement that Murray in 2024 and Sobel in 2023 were going to win POY. In 2022 when Peek won it, he was 4th in the league in scoring counting all games and he was 1st just in NESCAC. Does this mean the coaches rely significantly more on league games, again hard to know, my guess yes. As stated above, not sure some coaches look at anything but the games they played against their choices.
I have used it, because IMO, it is the only way to compare them fairly. These are league awards. If someone is dominating in the league, no matter what they did outside, I don't think the coaches are going to hold that against the person. Vis versa if someone has been great outside the league but not good in the league, I do think they will hold that against them.
There are some NESCAC teams that play a tougher outside schedule, certainly better than others in the league. But for the most part, the games the NESCAC teams play outside of the league are against teams that would be disastrous in the NESCAC league. You take Williams, Middlebury and Hamilton and put them in most of the other conferences, and they are not close to last place. Certainly not Williams and Middlebury.
You take a look at Okorougo and Vetter, outside of conference, Trinity was winning games by over 30 points, and both playing less minutes, less shots, less scoring. I don't know how you can compare them to say Cuevas who was playing more minutes and taking more shots and playing closer games. Okorougo and Cuevas, both have taken about the same number of shots in league play. Their difference in scoring is Cuevas takes and makes more 3's. But Okorougo rebounds better and is a better defender. Vetter averages 3 more points in league than he does overall, that is pretty substantial. Cuevas is the other way, he averages about 2 points more per game out of league than in league. How do you fairly calculate for these differences.
To me just use league numbers. Cuevas has a chance this weekend to make a point, he may win it either way. Pohlman, I don't think will get the credit he deserves and Okorougo and Vetter are probably going to lose votes to each other.

[D3BBALL]

I did not use the word talented, I said better. Jared Berry is more talented than Henry Vetter. Pohlman is far more "talented" than Pouye or Dan Civello. Those are different. All of the guys I mentioned are better at basketball than Pohlman

Sorry should have used "better", but when using talented I meant it the same way. Would have to know what your definition is of better. I would disagree on Berry being more talented than Vetter. I would disagree on Pohlman being more talented than Pouye. Would have been nice to see what Pouye could have done if he had stayed healthy this season. Pohlman more talented than Civello, yes today, but long term it is a wait and see as to what Civello does in the next 2 years. It is hard enough to compare a center to a point guard and even harder when the center is not nearly as athletic as the guard. I don't think either Civello or Berry are better at basketball than Pohlman this season. Pohlman is a much more complete player than both of them. Berry not the same player he was last year, early season injury may have hurt him. But for this season, and most play a different position than Pohlman, so not easy to say who is better at basketball, I would take Pohlman's basketball play over the others this year. Does not mean I would take him first if picking a team, no not at all, just based on everyone's play this season.

[D3BBALL]

I don't know if this is the best metric or the worst metric to decide this but Cuevas, Vetter, Okorougo, are just better at basketball than Pohlman. I think we get way too bogged down by stats when doing these. If you asked 100 D3 basketball fans to watch these teams play without knowing who was who and then asked them who the best player was, Pohlman would get the 4th most votes. I don't know that people would think he is better than Wolinski either

this is a horrible metric to decide POTY, in my opinion. Yes, those three are more "talented" than Pohlman, but talent doesn't always indicate impact on a team. All four have been huge for their respective squads, but Pohlman just happens to be on the one that is in first place. We are now trying to discredit him for that when before the season, Wesleyan was being written off due to their losses.

I have a fan!!!!, and 100% agree. Please let everyone know we are not related,     

[NEhoops]

I think the coaches are definitely factoring in what players affect winning the most when voting on post season awards. They have the best sense of that, particularly when seeing the players live.

[D3BBALL]

Picks for this week, last week 8-2 overall 31-14

Friday
Bowdoin 73 at Wesleyan 65 - Upset pick
Amherst 71 at Middlebury 65
Colby 61 at Trinity 83
Hamilton 63 Williams 68 - Breaks into win Column
Conn 68 at Bates 79

Saturday
Hamilton 69 at Middlebury 81
Colby 70 at Wesleyan 81
Amherst 79 at Williams 61
Bowdoin 59 at Trinity 85 - Might decide POY

Sunday
Tufts 72 at Bates 79