MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Titan Q]

And you can say this with confidence because athletes are supposed to report NIL deals to the school, right?  So even if it weren't facilitated by the school or some NIL collective, it would be on the books somewhere.

100% confidence.

After this post, someone sent me this link:

https://nilclub.com/illinois-wesleyan-university/mens-basketball

There are several other pages (with considerably more money pledged) for other IWU teams.  A quick google also shows some logo apparel sites connected to individual athletes (although I didn't see any mbb players there).

I suspect there are lot of ways athletes may be exploring this on their own and I'd imagine the rules are still quite vague around the whole thing.

There's also likely quite the gulf between sponsors and alums "supporting" players and official NIL collectives coordinating with coaches and schools to do so strategically.

Yes, and whatever NIL Club is it clearly says, "The NIL Club is not affiliated with Illinois Wesleyan University."

IWU MBB has no NIL "collective", like Two Rivers Trust at Marietta (https://www.tworiverstrustnil.com), or anything formal whatsoever.

There was a suggestion above IWU student-athletes have NIL money coming in via Bloomington-based insurance companies, and other businesses.  And that just isn't true at all.

Within the NIL rules, all student-athletes are allowed to pursue different avenues on their own.  Like some ODAC kids last year who basically had a deal for food and drinks at a local establishment.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I am curious how and where the rules apply.  One of the apparel sites I saw was clearly using official logos and fonts and stuff, which probably weren't vetted through the schools.  It's certainly a mess.

[Gregory Sager]

There was a suggestion above IWU student-athletes have NIL money coming in via Bloomington-based insurance companies, and other businesses.  And that just isn't true at all.

No, Bob. There was a speculation about the possibility of IWU student-athletes having NIL money coming in via Bloomington-based insurance companies and other businesses, not a suggestion (as in a hint bordering on an open declaration) that it was indeed occurring:

Wouldn't surprise me, however, if Illinois Wesleyan is at the top of the league in NIL funds, because it's an institution that has a lot of close ties to its local business community, in particular the two major insurance corporations that are based in Bloomington.

You don't put the weight of evidence behind a sentence that you begin with, "Wouldn't surprise me if ..." . I stated nothing there that was presented as truth.

Now, if you want to me to talk in-the-know and on the record about IWU opera singers rather than IWU business connections to student-athletes, to use the classic Chicago expression, "I gotta guy ..." .

[Titan Q]

Now, if you want to me to talk in-the-know and on the record about IWU opera singers rather than IWU business connections to student-athletes, to use the classic Chicago expression, "I gotta guy ..." .

Coincidentally, so do I.

[Titan Q]

I am curious how and where the rules apply.  One of the apparel sites I saw was clearly using official logos and fonts and stuff, which probably weren't vetted through the schools.  It's certainly a mess.

Not sure what the rules are, outside of some of the public NIL stuff out there: https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2021/7/9/name-image-likeness.aspx

Looks like NIL Club is used by various student-athletes from most CCIW schools. Search field here:

https://nilclub.com/colleges

Football teams, volleyball, basketball, etc.

(Also many student-athletes from across D3.)

I just got a text from someone pretty familiar with NIL Club saying the average student-athlete in one of these groups makes $5 or $10 per month on average.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I think there's a bit of a stigma around NIL at the d3 level, because it feels like the kind of "pay to play" thing that we dislike at d1, but the reality is there's isn't a ton of money to go around for d3 schools, even if small towns, where the d3 school is the center of athletic and civic life.  It would really behoove some of these schools to organize and use the connections to strategically advance overall objectives.  What the Two Rivers Trust is doing for Marietta can be a real boon and doesn't have to work counter to the academic and institutional goals.

I imagine small d3s are leery of "giving away" what could be institutional donations to an outside group, but the most successful fundraising schools do so in partnership with donors and supporters.

I think people assume IWU has more going on, because it's precisely the kind of institution that's always leveraged partnerships well and has a reputation for strong alumni connection.

Of course there's always a potential to buy players away from other schools, but we can't be so naive to think financial aid awards are being used to do that more than we'd care to admit already.

[Gregory Sager]

Now, if you want to me to talk in-the-know and on the record about IWU opera singers rather than IWU business connections to student-athletes, to use the classic Chicago expression, "I gotta guy ..." .

Coincidentally, so do I.

And I'm sure that we both can hardly wait for him to opine on this subject yet again.

[Titan Q]

I think people assume IWU has more going on, because it's precisely the kind of institution that's always leveraged partnerships well and has a reputation for strong alumni connection.

In terms of alumni base, I do think IWU would be pretty well-suited to try something like Marietta is doing with Two Rivers Trust (https://www.tworiverstrustnil.com).  IWU has a loyal alumni base that wants IWU athletics to do well.

As I understand it, though, the university has chosen to not pursue this because it ends up creating confusion and competition for alumni support.  And I very much agree with this. 

As an alum that wants to give some money every year to support, say IWU MBB and WBB, I am put in position to choose between giving the money straight to the school (earmarked for MBB and WBB), or to the NIL collective...which ends up going to student-athletes. (Marietta MBB supporters have to somehow be in this confusing position currently?)

Just speaking for myself here, but if I have $1,000 to give to support Illinois Wesleyan MBB and WBB each year, I feel much better giving that money straight to the school (specifying MBB and WBB), knowing I can help fund the next holiday trip, or fix up the locker rooms, or whatever.  That feels much better to me than giving it to some entity that somehow gets the money to Josh Fridman, Sawyer White, and other student-athletes.

I love supporting the programs, am proud to do so, and I trust what the people who lead the programs will do with the money.  I personally don't believe in giving the money to the student-athletes.  To me, that is not Division III.

I hope student-athletes can make a couple bucks from NIL Club, or get some wings & drinks like the Hampden-Sydney guys had last year, or whatever.  But as an IWU alum, in terms of doing something formal with NIL, I'm glad to school has chosen not to.  For me, supporting the programs is supporting the student-athletes.

[iwu70]

I agree with Q on this . . . I give/gave money to IWU over the years, but mainly for academic programs and internship opportunities in summer.  Some of this went to student-athletes.  I'm happy that IWU has a strong athletic program and the incredible Shirk Center.  But, frankly, it's all over the top with so many sports, programs and benefits already for student athletes at the D3 level.  I'm only supporting IWU now if they enhance academic programs, student scholarships for all students, and continue to offer a wide-range of quality programs in the liberal arts.  There is nothing in the IWU Mission Statement about athletics . . . and other important areas designated in the Mission Statement have been underfunded or terminated entirely in recent years.  I wish for future fundraising efforts and endeavors to be focused on restoring and enhancing academic quality, providing endowed professorships, and improving overall facilities, mostly academics facilities.  IWU is well set on athletic facilities and opportunities and should look to focus its fundraising efforts on academic programs and quality.  IMHO.  iwu'70

[GusD]

Lots of CCIW activity tonight with six teams in action.
Hopefully, I'm wrong but I sense NCC may have a tough assignment at hand in opening with Aurora who has already had two games in which to iron out the kinks.

[Titan Q]

My season preview Q-cast with Ron Rose:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxk0RbMmy2s


0:00 Q-cast appearance leader; 20th season at IWU
2:01 Overseas trip in August
4:20 Early practice
5:36 Exhibitions/"closed scrimmages"
8:30 Void from 6 seniors who graduated
11:22 New team/new identity
14:31 Coaching staff
17:17 Transfer portal; Casen Lawrence & Brady Ruggles
19:29 Noah Cleveland deciding to play
22:32 Why D3?
25:36 CCIW
28:37 2025-26 roster
31:22 Nathan Boldt, 6-10 Sr F (co-captain)
33:57 Karlo Colak, 6-5 Sr G (co-captain)
35:34 Nick Tingley, 6-4 Sr G
37:10 David Williams, 6-2 Sr PG
38:43 Brady Kuehl, 6-7 Jr F
40:44 Jackson Niego, 5-11Jr PG
42:59 Casen Lawrence, 5-10 Jr G
45:53 Brady Ruggles, 6-6 Jr G
47:52 Mason Funk, 6-5 Jr G
50:48 Dylan Schmidt, 6-4 Jr G
52:07 Alec Schmidts, 6-5 So F
52:55 Connor Williams, 6-2 So G
54:43 Alex Miller, 6-5 So G
57:05 Anthony Kemp, 6-5 So G
1:00:01 Josh Fridman, 5-10 So PG
1:02:59 Noah Cleveland, 6-8 So F
1:05:57 Luke Meyer, 6-9 Fr F
1:08:43 Bradley Biedke, 6-6 Fr F
1:10:49 Tucker Sennett, 5-10 Fr G
1:12:49 Micah Meiss, 6-5 Fr G
1:14:32 Sikma Invitational
1:17:39 Titans vs Nick Roper 11/19
1:19:24 at Yeshiva; steak dinner
1:21:47 Final thoughts

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

Just speaking for myself here, but if I have $1,000 to give to support Illinois Wesleyan MBB and WBB each year, I feel much better giving that money straight to the school (specifying MBB and WBB), knowing I can help fund the next holiday trip, or fix up the locker rooms, or whatever.  That feels much better to me than giving it to some entity that somehow gets the money to Josh Fridman, Sawyer White, and other student-athletes.

I love supporting the programs, am proud to do so, and I trust what the people who lead the programs will do with the money.  I personally don't believe in giving the money to the student-athletes.  To me, that is not Division III.

This was exactly the point of my original post.  I do think, when done well, an NIL collective can act just like a booster program.  There's nothing that keeps an NIL collective from funding road trips or new gear - there just has to be trust between the group and the school that there's a partnership in where the funds are directed.  If you've got a good relationship between the two, it would be mutually beneficial.

I know one d3 coach who told all his team's donors to give to an NIL collective and stopped fundraising for the team entirely.  His rationale was "money funneled through the school has limits on what I can do with it; NIL money doesn't.  I don't know what we'll need in the future, but I want to keep my options open."

I don't know how his school feels about that, but the practicality of it makes sense in the right context.  Heck, this is how half the HS football teams in the country are funded, right?  Very few school districts (outside Texas and Ohio) can justify using tax dollars for all the these top teams do and get.  They raise outside money.

It all comes down to trust and relationships.  Heck, at the d3 level, if you're not paying players directly, you can probably get away with making your NIL collective non-profit and get the same tax benefits.

[Gregory Sager]

From somewhere deep in the mitten:

North Park 82
Alma 77

Vuckovic: 38 and 8
Gray: 12
K. Vanlandingham: 11 rebs

This was a win so ugly only a mother could love it. The Vikings, presented with a team that stuck to a 2-3 zone against them all night, could only muster 7-33 (.212) from downtown, and a fair number of those misses were of the airball or hit-the-backboard-three-feet-off-to-the-side varieties. The upside is that the Alma zone meant that the Vikings were getting plenty of second-chance opportunities; their 45-32 rebounding advantage included a 17-3 bulge on the offensive glass.

And "offensive" would be a good adjective to describe the Vikings' effort in the first half, in the sense that I was offended as a Vikings fan to have to witness it, as the Park got eaten up in transition by a Scots team that hit seven of its first ten trey attempts, mostly by going straight to the corner or the elbow and shooting quickly whenever they got the ball. The hosts led by 13 at the break and by 16 at the 18:10 mark of the second stanza before the Vikings finally set out on their long road back into the game through their rebounding and a cleaned-up defensive effort. They also improved dramatically at the line from the Lake Forest game, going 19-23 (.826) as a team. Most gratifyingly, they closed out the final two and a half minutes of the game with an 11-0 run to turn a five-point deficit into a five-point victory.

Mike Vuckovic is something else. The Scots had absolutely no answer for him. I don't think I've ever seen a guy go from being an end-of-the-bench garbage-time cipher as a sophomore to an all-around dynamo at both ends of the floor the way that he has in the first couple of NPU games in his junior season. It's too early to draw a definitive comparison, but he is becoming eerily reminiscent of another juco transfer named Mike who also had a Serbian surname and who also wore royal blue and gold back in the day, and anybody who's been around this league for a few decades knows who I'm talking about.

Also great to see William Bates get past his preseason injury and see 14 minutes of action on the floor tonight for NPU. The Vikings need his steadiness on the floor as well as his sell-out-my-body-for-every-loose-ball attitude.

The Scots aren't world-beaters, but they're hugely improved from last year. I don't know where they'll end up in the Em-Aye-Double-A, but they didn't look like an 8th-place team to me.

This was a frustrating game to watch online, as the Alma feed kept me on the slow train to Buffertown all night, but the broadcast duo for the Scots made up for it. They're outstanding, the PBP guy in particular. I may have to watch more Alma basketball just to hear his call.

[Gregory Sager]

@ Carroll 63, Beloit 61
@ Elmhurst 71, Hope 66
@ Millikin 76, Concordia (IL) 62
Aurora 65, @ North Central 55
North Park 82, @ Alma 77
@ Wheaton 93, Lake Forest 89

The CCIW improves to 9-2.

Home: 4-1
Away: 5-1
Neutral: 0-0

vs. MIAA: 2-0
vs. MIAC: 1-0
vs. MWC: 3-0
vs. NACC: 3-1
vs. UAA: 0-1

[GoPerry]

Wheaton  93
Lake Forest  89

Soren Richardson  27 pts, 4 rebs, 4 asst
Carson Grier  16 pts, 6 rebs, 3 blks
Devon Martin  15 pts 11 asst/4 tos, 3 stls

Cristian Rodriquez  22pts, 6 rebs
Alex Forowycz  19 pts 5 reb


A victory for Wheaton which is all that really matters.  But almost doesn't feel that way because the Thunder almost lost a game that they totally controlled for the first 29 mins.  Wheaton led by 19, 78-59 with 11 mins left.  But a little complacency set in, some quick ill advised shots and 12 second half turnovers by Wheaton allowed the Foresters to cut the lead down to 2 with 1:45 left.  I suppose young teams sometimes have to learn some very hard lessons which a terrible loss would have taught.  Let's hope they learned the game is 40 mins and you have to play all of them.  Credit Lake Forest for fighting til the end.

Once Carson Grier can learn to play good defense without fouling, which might not happen til soph year, he will be pretty impactful.