MBB: College Conference of Illinois and Wisconsin

[Gregory Sager]

Greg Sager feels Carthage will employ a lot of 3 guard offense, and I'm sure we'll see this set a good deal of the time. However, the offensive advantages of such a lineup are counterbalanced by a weaker defensive presence on the other end of the floor. Again, a wait and see.

I'm not sure why you think that a Logan/Kelly/Herth combo or a Logan/Kelly/Sykes combo would be "a weaker defensive presence" than Carthage would have if Thompson was utilized at the 3 spot. I've never seen much evidence of Thompson being a good perimeter defender. In fact, the added value that Thompson brings to the defense is as a shot-blocker -- and shot-blocking is a big man's role.

[AndOne]

Greg--

I'm not debating the offensive advantage a Carthage lineup without Thompson would present.
I'm also not debating their perimeter defense would be better without Thompson.
I do, however, think their overall and interior defense would be better with Thompson in the lineup. I feel that the CC perimeter D would be satisfactory with any 2 players from the quartet of Kelly, Logan, Herth, and Sykes. All are big, strong, and quick enough to provide a good perimeter D. At the same time, a CC interior defense of Thompson, Johnson, and either Jaskulske or Bauch could be a superior one. Johnson and Thompson were respectively, 5th and 8th in total rebounds, and 1st and 2nd in blocked shots in all ames last year.

Bottom line--Carthage gains more defensively by having Thompson in the lineup than they gain offensively by having him on the bench. Additionally, they don't really need 2 guards when Johnson is in the game given his fondness for playing away from the basket on offense. You win with defense. Accordingly, I think Carthage has the best chance of winning when they present the strongest defense which undoubtedly includes Thompson. JMHO.

[Gregory Sager]

A source within the Parkside program has advised me that the primary reason Jaskulske transferred is because over the last 5 or so games last season, he was beaten out for a starting position.

It was actually the last seven games. He was benched in midseason for three games, came back and started a couple of games, and then went back to the bench -- playing dramatically reduced minutes -- for the final seven games. He averaged a little over 15 mpg over the course of the season, but over those last seven games he averaged fewer than 10 minutes a game. In two of UW-Parkside's final three games, he was only on the floor for four minutes apiece.

Given the fact that he did appear in every game, it's less likely that he was held back by injury rather than by simply having his time reduced due to the coach's decision.

Perhaps he is one of those kids who was fortunate enough to receive a D2 scholarship, but really wasn't a D2 level player or didn't develop as expected.

His numbers, even as a starter, have been modest. He's reached double figures in scoring five times over the course of his career -- but his two highest-scoring games were against Indiana-Northwest (14 points), a traditional cupcake on the NAIA-2 level, and Trinity Christian (12 points), another local NAIA school that's hardly a hoops powerhouse. His career high in rebounds, eight, came in a game played three years ago. He doesn't shoot the three and he doesn't get to the line much.

He appears to either have been a role player, or a big body who possessed just enough skill to keep him from being a total detriment when he was on the floor. (Or he could've been a defensive specialist, although his rebounding numbers would've likely been higher if that was the case.)

We've all seen plenty of kids go D1 or D2 who really weren't solid upper division players. However, you can be sure Bosko wouldn't have accepted him if he didn't feel Jaskulske could help.

Oh, I'm sure that Bosko would've accepted him, regardless. Even if the guy turns out to be a stiff, he's not hurting anybody by wearing a uniform and occupying a seat on the bench. And I doubt that he's a stiff by CCIW standards; even if he doesn't turn out to be a superstar at this level, my guess is that he'll still turn out to be a useful piece of the puzzle for Carthage.

Also, what kid with only a year left to play is going to go somewhere he likely won't at least play significant minutes if not start?

Considering the fact that he was at least an ex-starter at the D2 level -- albeit for a UW-Parkside team that went 1-17 in its league -- he may very well have it in his mind that he's going to be handed a starting job on the first day of practice. He may be in for a surprise. Bosko has benched scholie-level transfers in the past who've had better resumes than Jaskulske's.

I'm not running the guy down, mind you. I know nothing about him other than his numbers. But I'm not thoroughly convinced, sight unseen, that he's going to be an automatic starter for Carthage, let alone an All-CCIW player. Maybe he will be. Maybe he won't. We'll see.

Greg--

I'm not debating the offensive advantage a Carthage lineup without Thompson would present.
I'm also not debating their perimeter defense would be better without Thompson.
I do, however, think their overall and interior defense would be better with Thompson in the lineup. I feel that the CC perimeter D would be satisfactory with any 2 players from the quartet of Kelly, Logan, Herth, and Sykes. All are big, strong, and quick enough to provide a good perimeter D. At the same time, a CC interior defense of Thompson, Johnson, and either Jaskulske or Bauch could be a superior one. Johnson and Thompson were respectively, 5th and 8th in total rebounds, and 1st and 2nd in blocked shots in all ames last year.

Bottom line--Carthage gains more defensively by having Thompson in the lineup than they gain offensively by having him on the bench. Additionally, they don't really need 2 guards when Johnson is in the game given his fondness for playing away from the basket on offense. You win with defense. Accordingly, I think Carthage has the best chance of winning when they present the strongest defense which undoubtedly includes Thompson. JMHO.

You're counting three players as inside players, Mark. Despite the nomenclature of "small forward", modern college basketball is really about two inside players, not three. In other words, if you have Johnson, Jaskulske/Bauch/Pierce, and Thompson all out on the floor at the same time, one of them is going to have to go out to the perimeter to guard someone.

[bopol]

I agree with Greg on the defense thing.  Kelly liked to press on D; Logan is good at it and Herth and Sykes both showed that they can work with it.  Carthage's guards will press on D and they won't be able to have 3 bigs on D or there will be big gaping holes on D if the opponent beats the press.  I think Carthage may go 3 bigs if they need to matchup (say, against North Central), but really that need is fairly rare, even in the CCIW.  Carthage can get away with 3 guards against almost all opponents and that'll present the best overall D.

Thompson has his flaws on defense.  He does block shots, but I find that he often loses position going for a block and the overall result is the other team gets an offensive rebound and a layup.  This can be solved by good rotations, but, well, I haven't seen it and I don't see that getting solved. 

Honestly, now that you guys have me thinking on it; the two things I'll watch early for Carthage will be shot selection and the role Johnson plays. 

[iwu70]

Official practices begin on Monday, right?  Hope we start to get a sense of some of the newbies, with practices and scrimmages starting up in the next few weeks. 

IWU70

[AndOne]

North Central ranked #3, and IWU #10 in the DIII News pre-season rankings.
NCC's Landon Gamble picked as one of the top 3 players in the Midwest Division.

The Top 25:

http://www.northcentralcardinals.com/documents/2012/10/12/D3N2012FactSheet.pdf?id=1848

[iwu70]

Glad to see NCC and IWU ranked well in the pre-season poll which, of course, doesn't mean almost anything.  But, a bit surprised Augie is not listed in ranking or in the "others to watch" category.  Should be some really great games in the top tier of the CCIW again this coming season, esp. the NCC-IWU matchups.  Both have a ton coming back and also have some questions to answer.  I'm still of the mind that Augie is going to be better than expected this coming year.  Let's hope the bottom tier of the CCIW improves at least to some degree this year as well, making the overall conference strength better, improved from recent years.

IWU70

[robertgoulet]

North Central ranked #3, and IWU #10 in the DIII News pre-season rankings.
NCC's Landon Gamble picked as one of the top 3 players in the Midwest Division.

The Top 25:

http://www.northcentralcardinals.com/documents/2012/10/12/D3N2012FactSheet.pdf?id=1848

Interesting. I don't think anyone doubts the talent on the front line, the big question is going to be who plays PG? Any incoming freshmen have the skill to lead the team? Is Goldthree back (I thought I read weeks back that he wasn't returning)?

[augiefan]

Glad to see NCC and IWU ranked well in the pre-season poll which, of course, doesn't mean almost anything.  But, a bit surprised Augie is not listed in ranking or in the "others to watch" category. 

Augie isn't in the preseason "others to watch category", because they lost 5 of their top 6 scorers to graduation. Kunz and Dexter are good players, but lots of question marks elsewhere, particularly at guard. Titan Q likes their freshman class, but unless you're a Landon Gamble type player, freshmen struggle to contribute productive minutes in the always competitive CCIW. Forward Tayvian Johnson is one freshman who does look like a possible freshman starter.

Hope the Vikings gain needed experience and improve during a very tough preconference schedule (3 WIAC opponents) to ready them for the conference season. Always fun to look forward to another basketball season.

[iwu70]

Of course, Augiefan, you won't find me "cheering for" your boys very often, I do think they may surprise this season.  We'll see.  I did see Tayvian Johnson play here at The Shirk in an All-Star game and he surely played well, stood out.  I think he will be an excellent, perhaps even All-Conference CCIW player in time.  As you say, hard to predict, or see many freshmen having a big roll, starting in the CCIW but he has a shot at it, IMHO.  He's every bit as skilled as Victor Davis was at that point, perhaps more so, but not as strong or tough as Victor.  But, he runs the floor very well, is quicker than Davis was earlier, and has good court vision, good touch and good movement on the fast break.  I was very impressed with him in that All-Star outing.  Seems clearly that NC and IWU are likely rated at the top of the league to start out, but there are always surprises, shifts . . . and a few break-out players that we didn't really see coming out. 

On the IWU squad, seems that, as Q has indicated, Sodemann may have a roll in the rotation, perhaps behind Brady Zimmer.  Also, seems 6'8" freshmen Mike Marietti might have a roll to play too . . . even in the mix of all the talented, experienced big men in the post area.  Lots of combos to contemplate for Coach Rose, with:

PG -- Overstreet and Molinari
SG -- Zimmer and Sodemann
3 - Ziemnik and Dortch
4 - Davis and Marietti
5 - Reed, Anderson, Musselman

Who else, we'll just have to wait and see, heh?  The competition for playing time is now underway.  Nice to have such great choices, possibly deep rotation.

IWU70

[AndOne]

North Central ranked #3, and IWU #10 in the DIII News pre-season rankings.
NCC's Landon Gamble picked as one of the top 3 players in the Midwest Division.

The Top 25:

http://www.northcentralcardinals.com/documents/2012/10/12/D3N2012FactSheet.pdf?id=1848

Interesting. I don't think anyone doubts the talent on the front line, the big question is going to be who plays PG? Any incoming freshmen have the skill to lead the team? Is Goldthree back (I thought I read weeks back that he wasn't returning)?

* Goldthree is gone. Rather involved story, but the primary reason for his exit was homesickness. He was a fair distance from home, and just missed his family and friends and playing in front of them. Big loss, but thats what many said last season when 2 bigs didn't return from the previous year. The Cardinals compensated rather well.
* There are at least 4 candidates for the PG position. Leading candidates as of today are 2 returnees from last year. Others in the mix initially include a transfer or 2, and perhaps a freshman. However, today was only the first day of practice, and any number of scenarios may yet surface. Accordingly, any further analysis at this point is only speculation at best.
* As you said, there is no doubt about the talent on the front line. In fact, the distinct possibility exists that some of that talent is quite possibly of All-American caliber. All 3 of the starters were all conference last year, and 2 were all region. The one who didn't make all region, was likely the 2nd best all around player in the conference last year! The Cardinals first 2 front line subs include a player who started as a freshman in 2010-11, but sat out last year, and another who would likely start on 95% of all the D3 teams in the country. 

** While a pre-season #3 ranking is nice, the truth is any of the top 10 or so could actually be #1. Everyone knows NCC must develop a competent point guard, but to reach their full potential, they must also develop cohesiveness, make good decisions, devote the same level of effort on the defensive end of the floor that they do on the offensive end, and take nothing for granted.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Intersting first weekend of play coming up with #7 Hope at #3 North Central in the 2nd game of the season.  Hope and IWU also have a December 22 rematch of last years epic battle.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

The Preseason Top 25 is out: http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/preseason

[AndOne]

The Preseason Top 25 is out: http://www.d3hoops.com/top25/men/2012-13/preseason

North Central---6th
Wesleyan-------8th
Augie-----------38th
Wheaton-------43rd

[Titan Q]

I was surprised to see the Titans at #8 in the preseason.  I think the Titans have Top 10 talent - I believe the 2012-13 Titans are loaded with talent and depth and should have another big season.  It's just that the Titans, a) lost 4 very important seniors in Jordan Zimmer, Eliud Gonzalez, John Koschnitzky, and Stephen Rudnicki, and b) have so many unproven players competing for the open spots in the rotation -- guys like Brady Zimmer, David Molinari, and Dylan Overstreet.  IWU will have entirely new personnel at both guard positions (starters and reserves) and will be drawing from a pool of guys who were not in the varsity rotation last year.  That's typically too much uncertainty for a Top 10 nod in the preseason.

What is certain is that IWU has a fantastic frontcourt heading in 2012-13...

F - Andrew Ziemnik, 6-4 Jr
F - Victor Davis, 6-5 Jr
C - Kevin Reed, 6-7 Sr or Nick Anderson, 6-9 Jr

The Titans will again be big, physical, and skilled at the 3/4/5 spots.  And Victor Davis could emerge as a real star this year.

If David Molinari and Dylan Overstreet provide solid PG play (as Eliud Gonzalez did) and if Brady Zimmer steps into his brother's SG position and plays up to his potential, IWU will be very good this year. 

So #8 is probably too high for now, but I guess when you look at the teams below the Titans, almost all also have significant rotation questions to answer at this point.