FB: Liberty League

[IC798891]

O

I still can't believe the LL got saddled with both of these guys.  Still wish they instead had divided the LL and E8 into a super league of Union/Ithaca/RPI/Hobart/Brockport/Cortland/Utica/Alfred and relegated the other 8 to a B league. 

If your program has an 0-10 season on its D3 football.com era resume, I wouldn't be talking about which programs should be getting relegated to B leagues.

[unionpalooza]

O

I still can't believe the LL got saddled with both of these guys.  Still wish they instead had divided the LL and E8 into a super league of Union/Ithaca/RPI/Hobart/Brockport/Cortland/Utica/Alfred and relegated the other 8 to a B league. 

If your program has an 0-10 season on its D3 football.com era resume, I wouldn't be talking about which programs should be getting relegated to B leagues.

Fortunately, I have decades of pretty detailed knowledge about all 16 of those programs and where they stand relative to one another, so I don't need to base what I say on single cherry picked fact.  If you had a different perspective on which 8 of those 16 programs have had the most sustained success over relevant history, I'm all ears. 

EDIT:  I should add that "relegated to a B league" probably sounded mean spirited, and I didn't mean to be mean.  I just think it would be better for almost everyone if the leagues were separated by program strength.  I should have written with a little more tact.

[UfanBill]

O

I still can't believe the LL got saddled with both of these guys.  Still wish they instead had divided the LL and E8 into a super league of Union/Ithaca/RPI/Hobart/Brockport/Cortland/Utica/Alfred and relegated the other 8 to a B league. 

If your program has an 0-10 season on its D3 football.com era resume, I wouldn't be talking about which programs should be getting relegated to B leagues.

OK IC since 79,88,91 was a while ago and Palooza's team is also my team and while there's no denying that Union went 0-10 in 2015 they've also had 2 NCAA tournament berths since then. I've forgotten about 0-10...Personally I have no beef with Buffalo St. being in the LL. It was a necessity to retain an AQ at the time. Besides Buffalo St. has been a winner in the past and I think we're all wondering what's holding them back now. In fact they were a serious contender in the E8 until moving to the LL a decade ago. Thus proving that the LL is a much tougher conference than the E8?   I've often felt that in a perfect scenario Hilbert and Buffalo St. should be in the E8 moving Hartwick to the LL and just to make complete sense convince those that make these decisions for Hamilton to leave the NESCAC and join it's NYS brothers in the LL.                         

Now about the Union/St. Lawrence game tomorrow...Last year up in Canton the Garnet were in complete control up 24-10 entering the 4th quarter and then tight end Oscar Baldwin happened. Baldwin and QB Daniel Lawther shredded the Union secondary for 2 late TD's taking the game into Overtime. There St Lawrence picked off Union QB Patch Flanagan, kicked a FG and won 27-24. A game Union assuredly blew and it reverberated into shutout losses the next two weeks...Now Lawther and Baldwin are gone and I hope Patch Flanagan and his teammates remember what had to be a l-o-n-g bus ride back to Schenectady.     

[Bartman]

Nice, friendly fire on the LL board. I love the passion. The 2015 Union team was the best 0-10 team , EVER!! Way better than Hilbert   

[IC798891]

So many checkdowns in this IC Hobart game

[Machiavelli]

Damn, Buff St got the 2pt conversion to make it 8-8. My 8-6 prediction could've actually landed. lol. Go Dilbert

[Ice Bear]

O

I still can't believe the LL got saddled with both of these guys.  Still wish they instead had divided the LL and E8 into a super league of Union/Ithaca/RPI/Hobart/Brockport/Cortland/Utica/Alfred and relegated the other 8 to a B league. 

If your program has an 0-10 season on its D3 football.com era resume, I wouldn't be talking about which programs should be getting relegated to B leagues.

So you're saying a programs like Hilbert and Buffalo State consistently play on the same level of Union?

So much so that palooza expressing that he would like Union, and I'm assuming the other more successful programs in the LL, to combine with other strong E8 programs to make a more competitive conference is out of line and/or not appropriate?

I'm just trying to understand the meaning of your post, which to me comes across as quite off base. Programs reputation and success on the field IMHO are made up of more than three poor seasons overall when their body of work both before and after those poor seasons is markedly better than anything Buffalo State and Hilbert have done.

****, maybe we can make a new conference that can include teams like Ithaca, Nichols, Westfield State, Alfred State, Castleton, Hartwick, St. Vincent, and Willy P...and even Curry for those Purple Drank days...

[unionpalooza]

Man, kudos to the Ithaca kids for the quality of their broadcast. I think it's gotta be the best product in D3 football.

[Ice Bear]

I absolutely love IC's uniforms. I've always been a fan of solid colors with less lines/etc. These dark gray with the dark blue helmet with traditional "Ithaca" written across looks excellent.

IC D playing tough right now.

[Ice Bear]

Congrats to the Bombers on another W over Hobart at Butterfield. I really enjoyed watching the second half of this one.

Credit IC's defense for holding and their offense for getting the first downs they needed to run out the clock.

[IC798891]

O

I still can't believe the LL got saddled with both of these guys.  Still wish they instead had divided the LL and E8 into a super league of Union/Ithaca/RPI/Hobart/Brockport/Cortland/Utica/Alfred and relegated the other 8 to a B league. 

If your program has an 0-10 season on its D3 football.com era resume, I wouldn't be talking about which programs should be getting relegated to B leagues.

So you're saying a programs like Hilbert and Buffalo State consistently play on the same level of Union?

So much so that palooza expressing that he would like Union, and I'm assuming the other more successful programs in the LL, to combine with other strong E8 programs to make a more competitive conference is out of line and/or not appropriate?

I'm just trying to understand the meaning of your post, which to me comes across as quite off base. Programs reputation and success on the field IMHO are made up of more than three poor seasons overall when their body of work both before and after those poor seasons is markedly better than anything Buffalo State and Hilbert have done.

****, maybe we can make a new conference that can include teams like Ithaca, Nichols, Westfield State, Alfred State, Castleton, Hartwick, St. Vincent, and Willy P...and even Curry for those Purple Drank days...

I'm saying that programs go through ebbs and flows.

If someone had pitched the "B" league idea after 2016, when Union had gone 8-32 over the previous four seasons while Buffalo State went 25-15, your Dutchmen/Chargers might have been the ones getting the boot, so maybe pump the breaks on acting so disappointed the LL is "saddled" with them.

Hilbert's a relatively new program, so I'm not bothering with conclusions.

[IC798891]

As for the likely news of the day.

I don't know, or particularly care, if picking up the flag on the PI call was right

Unless something has changed I'm unaware of, it would have given Hobart a first and 10 at the 18 and they ended up with a first and 10 at the 22 one play later. Knock yourselves out arguing if you think those four yards were the difference.

Frankly, I though both teams looked lousy, and neither seems particularly threatening beyond winning the conference.

For Ithaca, the inability to execute in the kicking game popped up last week, and nearly cost them today. It gave me flashbacks to the Swanstrom era, when the Bombers lost out on likely two playoff appearances due to poor special teams play. And the continued inability to make plays downfield in the passing game against good opponents is just killing the offense.

For Hobart, I don't know, it seems to me that if you have the presumptive best RB, if not offensive player, in the entire conference, you might consider giving him the ball on 4th and 1 from the 4, or 2nd and 3rd and 4 from the 16 with the game on the line. Heck, you might as well have given it to him on 4th and 4 if you're going to throw it to a guy running a route short of the freakin' sticks. Nothing irks me more than

--Not putting the hands in the ball of your best player in the biggest moments
--Completed passes on 4th and short not picking up first downs

This year's game wasn't really much better than last year's rock fight, and if these are indeed the top two teams in the LL as the coaches thought, everyone's gonna be home for the year pretty early.

[Ice Bear]

As for the likely news of the day.

I don't know, or particularly care, if picking up the flag on the PI call was right

Unless something has changed I'm unaware of, it would have given Hobart a first and 10 at the 18 and they ended up with a first and 10 at the 22 one play later. Knock yourselves out arguing if you think those four yards were the difference.

Frankly, I though both teams looked lousy, and neither seems particularly threatening beyond winning the conference.

For Ithaca, the inability to execute in the kicking game popped up last week, and nearly cost them today. It gave me flashbacks to the Swanstrom era, when the Bombers lost out on likely two playoff appearances due to poor special teams play. And the continued inability to make plays downfield in the passing game against good opponents is just killing the offense.

For Hobart, I don't know, it seems to me that if you have the presumptive best RB, if not offensive player, in the entire conference, you might consider giving him the ball on 4th and 1 from the 4, or 2nd and 3rd and 4 from the 16 with the game on the line. Heck, you might as well have given it to him on 4th and 4 if you're going to throw it to a guy running a route short of the freakin' sticks. Nothing irks me more than

--Not putting the hands in the ball of your best player in the biggest moments
--Completed passes on 4th and short not picking up first downs

This year's game wasn't really much better than last year's rock fight, and if these are indeed the top two teams in the LL as the coaches thought, everyone's gonna be home for the year pretty early.

Fair point, and I would have been ok with that, Union being left out, based on numbers regarding that specific timeline. I would enjoy one very strong conference regardless.

With that said, overall, Union would be included and rightfully so, with their overall body of work. No pumping of the breaks needed.

[Ice Bear]

Union up 21-0 on SLU with 11 minutes left in the first half. Nice opening drive for Union and then tough special teams break for SLU after Union's initial TD, and we are at 14-0 right off the bat.

I like SLU's fight and their use of two QB's, as Ledderman runs the ball quite a lot.

Union looking pretty good this evening.

[Bartman]

Congrats to Ithaca on the win over Hobart today. Although injuries are part of the game, losing our returning first string QB was Aidan Conrath a big blow. He looked great going 8-9 in the first half as the Hobart offense doubled up the Ithaca offense. After Conrath went down,  the combination of Tru Styles and Jeremy Weiss wasn't enough to overtake Ithaca in the second half. EJ Taylor toughed it out as he also has been playing injured much of the season(ankle/leg). In pile ups players go for his ankle since EJ is critical to the offense. The Oline has gotten healthier but is still missing pieces. No excuses, injuries are part of the game, but unfortunately we lost an opportunity as this Ithaca team is good but beatable.
   The LL is definitely down this year, so I'm thinking there is still some opportunity for some chaos. If Hobart can get a home win against RPI , I'll be rooting for an RPI win over IC which is definitely possible based on their game against Rochester. Union is also still a wild card as they have shown some good play and seem to be coming togethe. The LL season has a lot of legs in the race.