World Cup and European leagues

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm all for Arena calling out MLS.  I said it before.  The US Soccer Federation cannot survive let alone succeed with two competing forces.  Our best national team will come from our best players playing against the best competition under the most pressure.  That comes in Europe.  Beasley and Donovan might have been the 2002 catalysts, but we got to the quarters on the backs of John O'Brien and Claudio Reyna.  MLS is good for developing our young guys, giving them a solid foundation of play that is above what they would receive in the Euro youth programs (a theory proven by our under-20 success).  MLS just needs to be prepared to send the best players overseas for 8-10 years and then get them back in their middle thirties to tutor the next generation of young guys.  It's the only win-win scenario I see.  Bruce might not be the most tactful or diplomatic guy, but he has the right message.  All that being said, it's probably time to go elsewhere for our next national team coach.  I'd love to see us get Klinsmann, but I doubt Germany lets him go.

Germany over Argentina in a goal-fest (4-3 or something rediculous like that)
Italy over Ukarine (because Berlusconi bought off the refs)
England over Portugal (for no reason other than bias; Portugal is the better team, but being down two starters might be enough to drop them)
Brazil over France (even though I think Zidane has one more miracle in him, even so, Brazil has only lost one world cup match in the last twelve years)

[Mr. Ypsi]

HT,

Nice find on that Henry quote: "Maybe next time I'll learn to dive, but I'm not a woman."  My question: did he change his mind or his sex?

BTW, re: Donovan - my understanding is that he couldn't get off the bench in Europe.  Surely PLAYING in MLS is better for development (and 'comfort') than riding the pine overseas.

HF,

Much as I would love to see MLS become MAJOR League Soccer, I don't see it happening in my lifetime.  Therefore, I like your scenario - start 'em in MLS, send the best to Europe during their prime, bring back the elder statesmen to tutor the next generation.

[Greek Tragedy]

Obviously England, Italy, Germany, France and Spain are the big leagues. 

In our "area" the Brazilian and Argentine leagues are top, then next are the Mexican leagues.  When it comes to Europe, I think we're on par with the Scottish league.  They have the Old Firm, but after that, it's a huge drop off.  The Dutch league is similar with about 3 real good teams.  The MLS won't become any of the Big 5, but we can compete with the second tier leagues in Europe and in fact, attendence-wise, we do pretty well compared to some of those leagues.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Re: replay official.  Please note that I limited it to game-changing calls, MOST of which already involve stoppage time.  Things like whether or not a goal is legitimate (which a replay official could determine before the 'goal-scoring' team has even stopped celebrating) or whether or not a PK is legitimate (which could usually be decided before the PK is even taken).  Other foul or offside calls are much iffier.

Other calls - yeah, human error is a part of the game, but some MAJOR errors can (and should?) be corrected.

[Jim Matson]

Wow did I ever pick a bad time for a vacation!  I haven't been able to catch a live match since Saturday.

I was at a National Park today and meet a German family enjoying our fine country - and the daughter is wearing a Brazil t-shirt!  Upon my challenge, the father simply shrugged and smiled and mentioned something about trevleeing to Brazil once in a while.  Sounds like grounds for a yellow card!

[Pat Coleman]

Not a green card?

:::rimshot:::

[ColonelJohn4Life]

Obviously England, Italy, Germany, France and Spain are the big leagues.

Then, how did Portugese FC Porto win the Champions League in 2004? 

The World Cup is the greatest sporting event in the world, y'know, short of Wilkes vs. Scranton...

[ScotsFan]

I'm all for Arena calling out MLS.  I said it before.  The US Soccer Federation cannot survive let alone succeed with two competing forces.  Our best national team will come from our best players playing against the best competition under the most pressure.  That comes in Europe. 

I agree with all except for the part about Arena calling out MLS and his players.  All I've heard from Arena is how he blames everyone and everything BUT himself for the US' lack of success in this World Cup.  To me, Arena needs to step up and shoulder some of the blame as well.  After all, he's the one calling the formations and putting his players out of positions that they would be best utilized.  I'm just tired of him doling out criticism and not accepting any responsibility himself. 

I do agree with the fact that the best US players have to be playing in Europe.  I can't remember if it was in here or if I heard it on the radio, but they mentioned a correlation with basketball and why the rest of the world has caught up with the US in basketball.  It's because the best professional league is the NBA and look at how many players from outside the US are now playing in the NBA.  It's the same principle in soccer.  The best pro leagues are in Europe and if we want to even be competitive with the soccer powers, our players have to be playing in their best leagues just like their best basketball players are playing now in the NBA.

And thank goodness we will actually have some games to discuss later today!

[Ralph Turner]

Obviously England, Italy, Germany, France and Spain are the big leagues.

Then, how did Portugese FC Porto win the Champions League in 2004? 

The World Cup is the greatest sporting event in the world, y'know, short of Wilkes vs. Scranton...

I am not too sure of Wilkes vs. Scranton, but McMurry vs Hardin-Simmons is not too far behind.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I'm still trying to get my head on right after that match.  Definately the most intense match I've ever seen.  Both sides were absolutely wiped out by the end of OT.  Ballack could barely walk and he was able to put one in (only because the goalie guessed wrong).  Lehmann guessed right on all four penalties he saw and saved two of them.  Incredible.  I know Argentina will be disappointed and they really should have figured a way to get Messi into the game at the end, but that was just an amazing performance all around.  Bravo.  I woudn't argue if someone said those were the two best teams in the competition.

[Mr. Ypsi]

WHAT A MATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I think Brazil (if they ever get it together) may still be the best team, either of these teams would have kicked butt against the Brazil we've seen so far.

Argentina's subbing was a mystery to me (though having to sub the keeper no doubt screwed up the plans).  A question occurred to me when the keeper coundn't continue: if they had already made their 3 subs at that point, are they just screwed (or is there some special provision for an injured keeper)?  Anyone know?

[Browneagle64]

Absolutely a "super classico" today. Both Argentina and Germany did everything they could to stop one another. What a way to decide the game. Its sucks to see argentina leave. However, The brazilians against germany will now be a huge game. (Of course, in favor of brazil)

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

WHAT A MATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I think Brazil (if they ever get it together) may still be the best team, either of these teams would have kicked butt against the Brazil we've seen so far.

Argentina's subbing was a mystery to me (though having to sub the keeper no doubt screwed up the plans).  A question occurred to me when the keeper coundn't continue: if they had already made their 3 subs at that point, are they just screwed (or is there some special provision for an injured keeper)?  Anyone know?

There is no special provision for an injured keeper.  It's a reason why some managers never or rarely use that third sub in a tie match.  I know it was pretty common practice ten or twelve years ago on the international level for both teams to end the game with a sub remaining.  I guess teams aren't as worried about it anymore.

[CRZK]

Here you go Browneagle!

Some thoughts.

Bruce Arena and US Play.  Actually, if you look at the roster about 1/2 of the US squad plays or has played overseas.  Reyna, Mathias, and Keller are three of the most notable names.  I do think Arena is right on one point.  The MLS does not have the level of play or the intensity that Europe or South America has.

However, I agree the Arena needs to step up and take responsibility as well.  He either stifled creativity and had a poor player management system or failed to maximize the strengths of his team to fit the competition.

Last on the US players.  Man for man I think you can see that they cannot create on their own, deny the pass, deny the long ball, and what does the US bring to the attack.  The answer this World Cup is obvious--nothing.

Finally, I think some are being too harsh on the ref's.  Here I speak as a licensed USSF ref having done competitions ranging from competitive HS club soccer, HS, and men's and womens college matches.  FIFA has told for the past couple of years to crack down on flagrent fouls, shirt pulling, simulation (new FIFA term for diving), etc.  It stands to reason that one cause of the # of cards is that the ref's THEY PICKED THEMSELVES (FIFA) are trying to live up to FIFA guidelines. 

One way to help out is for the international soccer community to begin to point out and publicize for scrunity some of the more blatent simulations and flagrent fouls that have occured.  Shame and ridicule of the more blatent offenders on the world stage might have some effect in reducing the amount of occurances.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I almost decided to skip the Italy-Ukraine match, knowing it would be a let-down after Germany-Argentina, but there are so few Cup games left I ended up watching.  While it couldn't match G-A (few if any could), it was a much better match than the 3-0 score might indicate.

Don't get me wrong, Italy was far the better side, but if the Ukraine didn't have bad luck, they would have had no luck at all!  They stunk up the place offensively the first half (graphic said they had ZERO shots, though I think that must have been ON GOAL), but trailed only 1-0; the second half they tested Italy over and over.  One sequence (55th? minute) they had a point-blank shot that Buffon barely blocked, then another point-blank on the rebound which Zambrotta somehow blocked.  About five minutes later Shevchenko(?) had a header off the crossbar. 

Unfortunately for the Ukraine, Toni finally got his first goal of the Cup between those two threats, and his second only a minute or two after the flurry.  At that point the match was obviously decided, but the Ukraine still had 4-5 serious threats to score - obviously they didn't.  After five matches, Italy has still not been scored on (except by an Italian vs. USA )!

Though I expect Germany to prevail, the German-Italian semi should be a good one!