FB: Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Ron Boerger]

It's pretty crazy what Dallas area HS coaches are paid.... does that mean AC gave Gage a raise?

Remember, HM, you're talking about an area where one district spent something like $25M on a HSFB stadium/indoor practice facilty (Southlake Carroll).  What's $100K for a coach?   

I find it hard to believe that AC will pay Gage more than the $90K he was apparently getting at Lewisville.  Maybe he was just ready for a different sort of challenge.  Also interesting that former HPU coach Vance Gibson is listed as making $90K at Frisco, too. 

[roocru]

Coach Gage is not getting a raise from AC  to be paid more than he currently is.  He is actually retiring from the public school system and whatever money he makes at AC wil be paid in addition to his retirement.  This has become a common way for public school coaches to enter private schools and continue to coach when they tire of the issues in public schools or want a change in scenery. 

I am currently at the AFCA meeting in Dallas and the Morning News story has predictably been a hot topic of conversation.  All I can say is I agree teachers should be paid more.  However if any teacher wants to put in the hours coaches do in addition to their own teaching loads or be willing to get fired by the public at the whim of a few discontented parents because their test scores did not beat all the other teachers in their district, then they can complain about the difference in salaries. 

I know this statement may be controversial, but until you get fired with a winning record because you did not start a school board members' child or you get fired because you have one losing season in the past ten, you cannot understand the pressure and the reason why coaches get paid more.

[roocru]

Ralph,
I feel bad that I may be opening another can of worms and because of my job and where I am right now I may not be able to respond for a while but here goes....

     I have a problem with the so called 65% rule.  The issue boils down to what you classify as education spending and what is not. 
     Teacher's salaries definitely are, but what about counselors? School nurses? Janitors?  If you say these are not educational spending, they will go into the 35%? 
     One of the biggest expenses in public schools is transportation.  Does the cost of transporting students to school classify as an educational expense?  If it does what about transportation costs for extracurricular activities.  Do athletic busses, meals for athletes who travel all day or a three day trip for a tournament, or travel for one act play and debate count as educational expense as well or does it go into the 35%?  What about the variance in transportation for a school in West Texas which has to travel hundreds of miles for a district contest as opposed to a suburban district whose farthest district athletic contest is 15-20 miles?
     I know many people feel administrators are overpaid and districts are top heavy in that regard, but even if they are not, remember that these costs will go into the 35% as well. 
     Are coaches stipends for coaching teams part of the educational expense or do they go into the 35%?  If they do fall into the 35%, what about stipends for band directors, drama coaches, and all other extracurricular stipends?
     If nothing but pure educational expenses go into the 65%, there will not be enough money left to fund the things that are also considered valuable to local school districts. In my district, with all salaries being approximately 70 - 80% of the total budget, our current percentage is about 58% for purely educational expenses.  If most of the above questioned items fall into the 35% portion, the only way to correct the difference in 58% to 65% would be to slash extracurricular activities, student support services and school maintenance. 
     I believe the fact is that each school district has its own set of priorities and its own set of issues and where it spends its money is the responsibility of the elected school board of the community the school resides in and not in some state mandated proclamation.  I fully agree teachers should be paid more and I hope our legislators finally realize that public education deserves to be financed appropriately.  However, the 65% rule sounds good but I believe it is actually detrimental to the schools in Texas.

I will try to respond to any other opinions on this issue as soon as I am available again.

[Ralph Turner]

roocru, what is the per pupil allocation in your district?

Total Gross Revenue (Federal, State and Local)/
Total number of students

[roocru]

Ralph,

I won't be able to answer that question until I return to my office.  It will be Thursday at the earliest.  I will try to get it for you though !

[Ralph Turner]

Thanks, roocru!

[evacuee]

Does this work?  I keep getting banned when I post. 

[evacuee]

Interesting topic.  I've worked in Education for about five years, which is long enough for me to form a multi-point opinion-

1.  Everyone in every profession seems to think they are underpaid.

2.  The people who produce or handle money are the ones that should be taking the most money home.  Administrators make financial decisions that affect the school community and coaches bring in a whole lot of money at the gate. 

3.  Improved facilities make the job more desirable.  If that money went into the teachers' pockets, they might be arriving in nicer clothes and cars, but they would complain constantly about the poor conditions. 

4.  Teachers' impacts are overstated.  The way a person receives an education is determined by the values taught at home.  It all starts there.  Who makes a more positive contribution- A hard working illiterate that takes care of his property and family or a white collar ENRON crook with an MBA from Harvard?  One is more formally educated, but the other has values that contribute to the greater good.  No teacher taught them about that.

5.  No element determines the quality of an education more than the values of the student body.  One cannot teach without cooperation from the students, and if the students don't value education, they are less likely to cooperate. 

Those big money coaches get big bucks because they produce big bucks.  The administrators get big bucks because they make sure the schools' money doesn't disappear.  Teachers teach, which is critical, but the financial impact does not exist. 

[Bill McCabe]

Roocru,  Great points.

[historymajor]

Hmmm... double dipping at AC.... interesting concept... Is he a Vet?  That'd make it triple dipping!

[roocru]

Ralph,
Here is some of the information you asked about.

General Fund:
Total Budget .......................$251.6 million
  Payroll costs (80.0%).........$201.1 million

Revenues (% of budget):

Property taxes......................49.3%
Other Local Sources...............2.3%
State Sources........................47.4%
Federal Sources......................1.0%

General Fund Budgeted per Pupil Cost..........$6,941  (Based on Estimated Average Daily Attendance (ADA) of 36,249 students)

Expenditures (% of Budget)
Instruction/Instruction-related........................58.8%
Instructional and School Leadership...............8.0%
Administrative Support....................................3.2%
Support Services-Student Based.....................10.5%
Support Services-Non Student Based..............17.2%
Ancillary Services..............................................0.5%
Debt Service.....................................................1.5%
Facilities Acquisition and Construction..............0.0%
Other Uses.......................................................0.3%

My total athletic budget which includes stipends, athletic administrators, office staff, intramural programs, natatorium costs, staff development and all sport related travel and equipment costs is $4,365,566 or about 1.7% of the total budget.  If you exclude personnel accounts, the athletic total is $1,800,749 or about  0.7% of the total.

In addition we are the only department which returns money to the general fund.  Last year it was about $470,000 in ticket sales returned to the budget.  It is not returned to the athletic budget but goes into the general fund only !! 

I often get a kick out those people who think we can solve our educational money probelems by cutting back in athletics.  If you cut athletics entirely you would only be saving 1.7% of a budget where 80% goes to salaries alone.

Questions are welcome!

[Ralph Turner]

roocru,  your $6900 per student allocation is a great value.

I cannot argue with your allocation because I cannot see how there are much in savings that an alternative system would provide.

When we are hearing of per student spending in the 5-figure range, you can imagine my consternation.

My main frustration with the Richardson school district when my children were there was the number of assistant superintendents.  The organization chart looked like there were about 3 layers between the Superintendent and the student that could be eliminated.

[Ralph Turner]

roocru, here is an article about the Vouchers in Milwaukee that explains some of my concerns about public education.

Private school voucher $6381

Public school spending -- 80% higher ($11,485)

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/

[roocru]

Ralph,

I just saw your message and will try to read it and respond further later.  However, one glaring difference in the Milwaukee example and the vast majority of schools in Texas lies in the fact that Milwaukee's teachers are unionized.   I will agree in every sense that teacher unions are a large part of any educational problems wherever they exist.  It is hard enough now in Texas to get rid of poor teachers through our current legal system.  When you add the collective bargaining agreements and power that unions have, they are going to resist any change that affects any of their members.  They are going to fight for every penny they can.  This does not make them evil, it is just that they are doing what they are designed to do.

Once again, I will be out of town for an athletic director's meeting for my region.  It is so close to the UIL realignment that I have to make every one of these meetings I can, but I will get back to the board as soon as possible. 

[frank uible]

For underpaying teachers so greatly for so long, taxpayers have gotten what they deserve in the form of teachers' unions.