WBB: Heartland Collegiate Athletic Conference

[Enginerd]

January 5th
Bluffton @ Defiance 6:00 PM
Earlham @ Transylvania 7:00 PM
Anderson @ Manchester 7:30 PM
Franklin @ Rose-Hulman 7:30 PM
Hanover @ Mount St. Joseph 7:30 PM

January 8th
Mount St. Joseph @ Manchester 1:00 PM
Rose-Hulman @ Bluffton 1:00 PM
Hanover @ Earlham 1:00 PM
Defiance @ Transylvania 1:00 PM
Franklin @ Anderson 1:00 PM

Tonight:

Defiance
Transy
Anderson
RHIT
Hanover 

[Jester1390]

Rose game delayed to 9:15 tonight. Franklin jus left for rose

[Jester1390]

Woops 8:15 here  7:15 central

[Baldini]

My plus minus rating is terribble.  I need to get some of Miac dads on here and get me some likes

Dang what have you been doing Jester? Slandering coaches and players again? Blaming refs for all the failures of your favorite teams? What could it possibly be? 

[Jester1390]

Pointed out some film from a game was trying to get different points of view and damn I felt like I was dipped in honey and put in beehive

[Jester1390]

By the way never slander a coach or a player.  Only coach I can comment on and I would be right in doing so is the head coach at hilbert and I'll leave it at that

[Baldini]

I've got Transy 9 (I've been given a vote in the women's poll this year.  I haven't been as vocal about it, because I'm new and want to make sure I'm confident in my knowledge before I spout off too much) - the Tufts win is good, obviously, but it was very early in the season and the rest of the schedule isn't super great.  I like the team a lot, but probably not a Top 5 resume.  That big zero at the end of the record sure looks good, though.

At this time anything between 4-9 is a fair ranking, it will sort itself out in the next month. You mention Tufts, but the John Carroll win was super impressive, a game I saw in person. JC was ranked 3rd coming into that game and is still 12th, but Transylvania completely dismantled a very veteran team of SR's and 5th year SR's that day. They also defeated a Piedmont team by 30 that was receiving votes at the time and since that game Piedmont has defeated Depauw on DePauw's homecourt.
There is a fair amount of envy on this board towards Transylvania and comes out as polluted mindsets from time to time, but they are a legitimate top 4 to 8 team this season. They will need to run the table to hold a top 4 spot for tournament seeding and a homecourt advantage and the 3 road games in a week with the final one at RHIT on 1/22 will loom large for the Pioneers.   

[Jester1390]

Defiance up 6 or 7 at half over bluffton

[Jester1390]

Bluffton with the win

Franklin.  Nix is playing my kid is guarding her so we shall see.  Cross is out.  Game time 30 min

[Baldini]

Hanover was up 16 at the half and ends up getting beat by MSJ 82-74.

[Jester1390]

Complete. STEM roll over Franklin 69-31 and that's with
Conference is in trouble

[Jester1390]

Rose held Franklin to 7 for 63 in shooting

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

7 of 65; 10.8% on FG and only 31 points... I'm trying to find the last time they were that bad... last time they were held under 50 points was 2019 when Rose won 50-35.

Previous low this year was 13-54 for 24.1% against Albion
2021 was 20-60; 33.3% against Transylvania
2020 was 19-67; 28.4% against Hanover in the conference tourney
2019 was 20-66; 30.3% against Bluffton
2018 was 12-57; 21.1% against Trine (only scored 32 points)
2017 was 16-71; 22.5% against Hanover
2016 was 20-72; 27.8% against UW-Eau Claire
2015 was 14-53; 26.4% against Hope
2014 was 15-49; 30.6% against Manchester
2013 was 16-57; 28.1% against Rose
2012 was 9-39; 23.1% against Manchester (the last time making less than 10 FG)
2011 was 15-53; 28.3% against Benedictine
2010 was 19-58; 32.8% against Elmhurst
after that the stats are sparce. Not once under even 20% in that span.

Dec 5th 2007 Rose beat Franklin 38-30. That's the last time Franklin scored less.


Looks like the Pioneers and Engineers are going to run away with the conference this year. January 22nd will be a fun one. Make sure everyone is healthy so it's not cancelled please.

[Enginerd]

I've got Transy 9 (I've been given a vote in the women's poll this year.  I haven't been as vocal about it, because I'm new and want to make sure I'm confident in my knowledge before I spout off too much) - the Tufts win is good, obviously, but it was very early in the season and the rest of the schedule isn't super great.  I like the team a lot, but probably not a Top 5 resume.  That big zero at the end of the record sure looks good, though.

At this time anything between 4-9 is a fair ranking, it will sort itself out in the next month. You mention Tufts, but the John Carroll win was super impressive, a game I saw in person. JC was ranked 3rd coming into that game and is still 12th, but Transylvania completely dismantled a very veteran team of SR's and 5th year SR's that day. They also defeated a Piedmont team by 30 that was receiving votes at the time and since that game Piedmont has defeated Depauw on DePauw's homecourt.
There is a fair amount of envy on this board towards Transylvania and comes out as polluted mindsets from time to time, but they are a legitimate top 4 to 8 team this season. They will need to run the table to hold a top 4 spot for tournament seeding and a homecourt advantage and the 3 road games in a week with the final one at RHIT on 1/22 will loom large for the Pioneers.

Upon thinking about it you're probably right about where they belong ranking-wise, Baldini - I just want to point out something that I think is important to consider - that over the last half-dozen years, other than Tufts, every single "good" or "great" win Transy has had has been at home. Being able to play big games at home matters. It's why most conferences award the home-court advantage in the AQ tournament to their regular season champion. Didn't home court advantage in wins/losses figure in Division III men's SOS for regional ranking purposes in the very recent past? I'm not blaming Transy for their schedule - who WOULDN'T want to host multiple tournaments and try to get good teams to come and play on YOUR home court. Just like John Carroll did.

Now, if Transy thrashes RHIT in Terre Haute on the 22nd and RHIT finishes 18-5 I think the Transy/home game theory can be effectively laid to rest.

Also, DePauw was without Mya Shannon in the loss to Piedmont and more than any other DePauw team, they really depend on her. She is far and away their most dynamic offensive player and a huge difference-maker for them. There's a large noticeable drop-off when she's not on the floor. When DePauw has been really, really good - like undefeated National champions or regional finals good - they've almost had "anonymous" players - so many kids that were so good that no one single player really stood out. The 2021-22 DePauw team is different and they aren't the same without her. A win over DePauw, however, is still a win over DePauw.


If they finish top-4 "...for tournament seeding and homecourt advantage"? Respectfully, Ryan that doesn't matter ONE BIT in Transy's case. They finished 15th in the final D3Hoops regular season poll in 2019-20 and finished FOURTH in the final regional ranking AND STILL HOSTED. I have no way of knowing for certain but I'd speculate that in the history of the regional rankings/committee system, Transy in 2019-20 was the only #4-regionally- ranked team to ever host a pod.
I'd bet Transy could lose probably two HCAC games and still host as long as they won the AQ. In fact, I can envision a scenario where they lose the AQ, get an at-large (which they'd certainly deserve) and STILL host. Not only do I believe that RHIT could beat them on the 22nd and not get a single vote afterwards for beating a Top-5 team, a lot of voters would just say to themselves "it was just a one-off and great teams stub their toe occasionally" and RHIT could run the table the rest of the season, finish 19-4, and still wouldn't get more than a handful of votes - if any votes at all.

Admittedly, Baldini, yes, if we're honest with ourselves there's probably a little bit of Transy-envy going-on. I envy how Transy gets treated by voters and the regional committee. I wish that when my team were occasionally good they'd get some attention. Problem is, admittedly and in all fairness, they just aren't as consistently good as Transy - and ultimately I think that's what makes the difference with voters, at least.

My point is that there are a large number of teams that have cachet with voters and will always be given the benefit of the doubt - and others that have to be perfect and cure cancer between games to get noticed. As an example, I really think Wesleyan down in Macon, GA, could start any given season 8-0 (which likely ain't happening anytime soon) with perhaps a win or two over average-to-above-average teams and maybe one big win over somebody like Piedmont or Maryville. Compare that  same scenario to someone like St. Bens or Gustavus or even Rochester - which  happens about every other year with regularity and they would likely already have been receiving votes and would perhaps even  cracked the top-25 without playing anyone REALLY good. Meanwhile, Wesleyan would have to make it to 18-0 before anyone realized there was an all-women's Division III school in Macon, GA named Wesleyan at all.

Transy is really good, and Coach Fulks has done a wonderful job on building what Greg Todd left in place and actually building on it and taking the program to places he never dreamed of. She's been successful everywhere she's even been and is a really, really good basketball coach. Believe it or not, I actually pull for Transy once the NCAA tournament starts because any success they have reflects well upon the rest of the HCAC which is obviously not universally respected from a competitive standpoint.

What we're talking about and what the voters vote on is our educated conjecture - the only thing that matters is what happens on the court.

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I've got Transy 9 (I've been given a vote in the women's poll this year.  I haven't been as vocal about it, because I'm new and want to make sure I'm confident in my knowledge before I spout off too much) - the Tufts win is good, obviously, but it was very early in the season and the rest of the schedule isn't super great.  I like the team a lot, but probably not a Top 5 resume.  That big zero at the end of the record sure looks good, though.

At this time anything between 4-9 is a fair ranking, it will sort itself out in the next month. You mention Tufts, but the John Carroll win was super impressive, a game I saw in person. JC was ranked 3rd coming into that game and is still 12th, but Transylvania completely dismantled a very veteran team of SR's and 5th year SR's that day. They also defeated a Piedmont team by 30 that was receiving votes at the time and since that game Piedmont has defeated Depauw on DePauw's homecourt.
There is a fair amount of envy on this board towards Transylvania and comes out as polluted mindsets from time to time, but they are a legitimate top 4 to 8 team this season. They will need to run the table to hold a top 4 spot for tournament seeding and a homecourt advantage and the 3 road games in a week with the final one at RHIT on 1/22 will loom large for the Pioneers.

Not trying to argue with you, Ryan - and a win is a win. The John Carroll game was at Transylvania, right? Go back and look over the last half-dozen years. They don't leave home unless they have to.
Also, DePauw was without Mya Shannon in the loss to Piedmont and more than any other DePauw team, they really depend on her. She is far and away their most dynamic offensive player and a huge difference-maker for them. There's a large noticeable drop-off when she's not on the floor. When DePauw has been really, really good - like undefeated National champions or regional finals good - they've almost had "anonymous" players - so many kids that were so good that no one single player really stood out. The 2021-22 DePauw team is different and they aren't the same without her. A win over DePauw, however, is still a win over DePauw.


If they finish top-4 "...for tournament seeding and homecourt advantage"? Respectfully, Ryan that doesn't matter ONE BIT in Transy's case. They finished 15th in the final D3Hoops regular season poll in 2019-20 and finished FOURTH in the final regional ranking AND STILL HOSTED. They could lose probably two HCAC games and still host as long as they won the AQ. In fact, I can envision a scenario where they lose the AQ, get an at-large (which they'd certainly deserve) and STILL host. Not only do I believe that RHIT could beat them on the 22nd and not get a single vote afterwards for beating a Top-5 team, a lot of voters would just say to themselves "it was just a one-off and great teams stub their toe occasionally" and RHIT could run the table the rest of the season, finish 19-4, and still wouldn't get more than a handful of votes - if any votes at all.

Admittedly, Ryan, yes, if we're honest with ourselves there's probably a little bit of Transy-envy going-on. I envy how Transy gets treated by voters and the regional committee. I wish that when my team were occasionally good they'd get some attention. Problem is, they just aren't as consistently good as Transy - and ultimately I think that's what makes the difference with voters, at least.

My point is that there are a large number of teams that have cachet with voters and will always be given the benefit of the doubt - and others that have to be perfect and cure cancer between games to get noticed. As an example, I really think Wesleyan down in Macon, GA, could start any given season 8-0 (which likely ain't happening anytime soon) with perhaps a win or two over average-to-above-average teams and maybe one big win over somebody like Piedmont or Maryville. Compare that  same scenario to someone like St. Bens or Gustavus or even Rochester - which  happens about every other year with regularity and they would likely already have been receiving votes and would perhaps even  cracked the top-25 without playing anyone REALLY good. Meanwhile, Wesleyan would have to make it to 18-0 before anyone realized there was an all-women's Division III school in Macon, GA named Wesleyan at all.

Transy is really good, and Coach Fulks has done a wonderful job on building what Greg Todd left in place and actually building on it and taking the program to places he never dreamed of and believe it or not I actually pull for them once the NCAA tournament starts because any success they have reflects well upon the rest of the HCAC which is not universally respected from a competitive standpoint.

What we're talking about and what the voters vote on is our educated conjecture - the only thing that matters is what happens on the court.

I think you've got the wrong poster, here.  You seem to be rebutting Baldini's points.