Eastern Collegiate Football Conference

[Ralph Turner]

I give up...you guys are always right...MUC is the best...nothing to see here...move along...

This was what prompted the -1, since you asked for clarification.

Wow...really???  It was a little bit of sarcasm Pat...that's all...

I was dropping some Star Wars lingo...the only thing I didn't add was "these aren't the droids you are looking for..."

So...if the one Pool B league/team has a terrible record, that does in fact open up another Pool C bid...correct???

Having watched portions during the Spike TV Star Wars Marathon this weekend, I will give you a "k".   

I like the way that the committee has moved teams across region lines where it makes sense.

I think that the top 8 seeds ought to be among the 12 best teams in the country.  Geographical proximity and constraints are a fact of D-III life. 

[Frank Rossi]

We are bucking up against the 32-team bracket limitations. All these schools adding football to offer participation in D3 football is tightening up the at-large situation.

Ralph, my feelings are that we will see the membership of D3 vote to raise the minimum for Pool A conferences to 8 members within the next decade.  Around that time, we'll challenge a Pool C level of 4 bids, which is the minimum I believe most of the membership will be willing to accept.  Any thoughts?

[Ralph Turner]

We are bucking up against the 32-team bracket limitations. All these schools adding football to offer participation in D3 football is tightening up the at-large situation.

Ralph, my feelings are that we will see the membership of D3 vote to raise the minimum for Pool A conferences to 8 members within the next decade.  Around that time, we'll challenge a Pool C level of 4 bids, which is the minimum I believe most of the membership will be willing to accept.  Any thoughts?

Frank,  in football or all sports?  If so, then the conferences will adapt and schools will add the sport for the sake of their peers.  (Who does the NEWMAC invite to make 8 men's teams in other sports?)

Thanks.


Maybe that is why Chapman suddenly became more attractive to the SCIAC.  (Just wondering...)

[Frank Rossi]

We are bucking up against the 32-team bracket limitations. All these schools adding football to offer participation in D3 football is tightening up the at-large situation.

Ralph, my feelings are that we will see the membership of D3 vote to raise the minimum for Pool A conferences to 8 members within the next decade.  Around that time, we'll challenge a Pool C level of 4 bids, which is the minimum I believe most of the membership will be willing to accept.  Any thoughts?

Frank,  in football or all sports?  If so, then the conferences will adapt and schools will add the sport for the sake of their peers.  (Who does the NEWMAC invite to make 8 men's teams in other sports?)

Thanks.


Maybe that is why Chapman suddenly became more attractive to the SCIAC.  (Just wondering...)

I think it's only necessary in football based on the idea that only football must be played in rounds that must occur once per week based on the nature of the sport.  Thus, there can't be a sixth week of playoffs -- no athletic director would sign off on that.  So, football is the only sport I can think of in which we'd be locked in at 32 teams.  As such, a special football-only threshold of 8 teams would be permissible.

[Ralph Turner]

We have lots of shuffling going on in the South, but I think that the 8-member rule would only affect the MIAA, the Southern Athletic Association (SAA or the SCAC-east teams who are separating), and the Liberty League.

I think that the SAA might add members. 

What would the MIAA do?

What is your perspective on the Liberty League?

The effect would be to push those bids back to Pool B, if they did not find affiliates.

[Frank Rossi]

We have lots of shuffling going on in the South, but I think that the 8-member rule would only affect the MIAA, the Southern Athletic Association (SAA or the SCAC-east teams who are separating), and the Liberty League.

I think that the SAA might add members. 

What would the MIAA do?

What is your perspective on the Liberty League?

The effect would be to push those bids back to Pool B, if they did not find affiliates.

The Liberty League has 8 members, and that's the number they're aiming to stay at (see the McLaughlin interview in the middle of tonight's "In the HuddLLe" for that).  I think the Empire 8 is the conference in trouble, since Frostburg and Salisbury are only there for 2 more years.  Also, mathematically, the system can't support 7-team conferences (that would require 34+ Pool A bids if every conference contained 7.  At the same time, a conference like the NJAC is proving that bigger does not mean better/better access. 

You're right that a push to a minimum of 8 teams per conference for Pool A access would push some conferences back to Pool B -- but the access ratio would technically support that move.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think we're likely to see any change in the AQ structure solely for football. It's just not how the NCAA does things, agreed?

[Ralph Turner]

I don't think we're likely to see any change in the AQ structure solely for football. It's just not how the NCAA does things, agreed?

I agree.  That is why I asked the question about "football or all sports".

In fact, there is no real change in the number of Pool C bids that one gains from raising the threshold for earning the Pool A bid from 7 to 8 in football.  I only identified 2 conferences that had 7 football playing members.  Those two conferences would move their "numbers" back into the "Pool B numerator".

If the MIAA wants to maintain its Pool A bid, then I bet Finlandia would love to affiliate to become the 8th.  I also think that the new Southern Athletic Association would find an affiliate or grow as necessary.

Thanks for the discussion, gentlemen. 

[Frank Rossi]

That's not quite true, Ralph.  If the football access ratio were to change to 8 for Pool A, it would also change for Pool B.  Thus, the number of Pool C bids would increase.

[Ralph Turner]

That's not quite true, Ralph.  If the football access ratio were to change to 8 for Pool A, it would also change for Pool B.  Thus, the number of Pool C bids would increase.

Let's look at the impact of dropping the 7-team conferences (SCAC/SAA; Liberty League, MIAA) from the tabulation of the access ratio.

As we should have it this year, there will be 25 Pool A conferences.  I expect 1 Pool B bid. That leaves 6 Pool C bids.

There is some other movement that will occur, and some teams that will help the conference get to the threshold (like George Fox in the Northwest Conference adding football).

For the 22 conferences, there are 201 schools. That gives an access ratio of 1:9.136.

For the current 25 conferences, there would be 222 schools. That would give an access ratio of 1:8.88.

Let's apply the "8-team" access ratio (1:9.136) to the larger Pool B.

UAA-4 + SAA-7 when Hendrix adds football + SCAC-2 leftovers + Wesley + Huntingdon + Macalester + Finlandia + MIAA-7 + LL-7 = 31.   31 divided by 9.136 = 3.39 bids truncated to 3 bids.

You are right. That would leave 7 Pool C bids.

If the new SAA wants to add Huntingdon as a football affiliate, that drops the calculation to 23 Pool B school divided by access ratio (209 schools / 23 Pool A conferences or 9.08) = 2.533 Pool B bids, truncated to 2 Pool B bids. That leaves 7 Pool C bids.

Then, if the MIAA adds Finlandia as a football affiliate, that drops the number of Pool B schools to 15 schools divided the access ratio (217 schools / 24 Pool A conferences or 9.04) = 1.659 Pool B bids, truncated to 1 Pool B bid.  That leaves 7 Pool C bids.

Then, if the Liberty League can find an 8th team, that drops the number of Pool B schools to 7 or 8, and the Pool B bid goes away.

When the most recent bits of dust settle, I think that Pool B will include the UAA-4, Wesley, and Macalester.  Trinity and Austin College may also be left hanging after the SCAC split.  Likely to be added as an affiliate are Huntingdon and Finlandia.

Thanks for the discussion.

[Ralph Turner]

One other thought...

Every serious D3 fan should thank the NEFC (Bogan and Boyd Divisions) for leaving a Pool A bid on the table to be a Pool C bid for the taking.

[Frank Rossi]

One other thought...

Every serious D3 fan should thank the NEFC (Bogan and Boyd Divisions) for leaving a Pool A bid on the table to be a Pool C bid for the taking.

Sorry, Ralph -- I should have said the LL will have 8 next year, as Springfield leaves the E8 for the LL.  The E8 will be back to 6 teams in 2013 (add Buff State, lose Salisbury, Frostburg, Springfield).

[Frank Rossi]

One other thought...

Every serious D3 fan should thank the NEFC (Bogan and Boyd Divisions) for leaving a Pool A bid on the table to be a Pool C bid for the taking.

I don't see the NEFC as a viable conference for longer than a decade -- I think the ECFC's formation will create some thoughts of a split since schools of equal athletics caliber have a better playoff access ratio than the NEFC currently does.  That can't sit well with the athletics departments inside the NEFC.

[Jonny Utah]

We are bucking up against the 32-team bracket limitations. All these schools adding football to offer participation in D3 football is tightening up the at-large situation.

Ralph, my feelings are that we will see the membership of D3 vote to raise the minimum for Pool A conferences to 8 members within the next decade.  Around that time, we'll challenge a Pool C level of 4 bids, which is the minimum I believe most of the membership will be willing to accept.  Any thoughts?

Frank,  in football or all sports?  If so, then the conferences will adapt and schools will add the sport for the sake of their peers.  (Who does the NEWMAC invite to make 8 men's teams in other sports?)

Thanks.


Maybe that is why Chapman suddenly became more attractive to the SCIAC.  (Just wondering...)

I think it's only necessary in football based on the idea that only football must be played in rounds that must occur once per week based on the nature of the sport.  Thus, there can't be a sixth week of playoffs -- no athletic director would sign off on that.  So, football is the only sport I can think of in which we'd be locked in at 32 teams.  As such, a special football-only threshold of 8 teams would be permissible.

I say you do something radical and have the NCAA make up the conferences on their own based on location.  You could have teams schedule a few non league games themselves, but the NCAA would have the power to leave the last date open for conference or region championship games.

[Ralph Turner]

One other thought...

Every serious D3 fan should thank the NEFC (Bogan and Boyd Divisions) for leaving a Pool A bid on the table to be a Pool C bid for the taking.

I don't see the NEFC as a viable conference for longer than a decade -- I think the ECFC's formation will create some thoughts of a split since schools of equal athletics caliber have a better playoff access ratio than the NEFC currently does.  That can't sit well with the athletics departments inside the NEFC.

The Boyd and Bogan add another layer to the playoffs, just like the post-season tourney of the 15-team ASC in M/W Hoops, Baseball, etc.

What are the prospects that the MASCAC will pick up the slack and sponsor football for its 6 football-playing members and pick up a few affiliates?