Liberty League

[Saint of Old]

Agree with everything you said.
Saints have been winning games closely, but they have not been outplayed all year (in my opinion).
I have spent the past few seasons going crazy watching too much possesion in the back, but they cleaned this up big time.
The Wednesday tilt Route 11 Bowl between SLU and Clarkson is shaping up as a battle between two solid defensive teams.
Clarkson has given.up.1 goal in 9 games.
Wow.

I also agree that Skidmore looks.to be the class of the league so far as well.

I say it every season, but Bard will surprise a couple league foes this year.

[stlawus]

Union thoroughly outplayed Plattsburgh tonight.  They only lost 1-0 to Vassar (on the road) and SLU (last minute goal), and played Oneonta scoreless for a half, nice for them to finally get a good result. 

Hobart gets smoked at home to Cortland.   The Statesmen are this year's LL enigma.

[Saint of Old]

It ends 1-1 in Canton between Clarkson and SLU.
Looks like Clarkson's ranking is legitimate.
That team will surely make the league tournament and mess up my predictions for the year.
They might even finish top 3.
I wonder how the committee will look at ties for a possible Pool C team.

St. Lawrence has played 11 games and lost 1 but they have 4 ties and with no OT this season, ties are not as rare as they used to be.

League is looking very open now and as someone said above, seems like anyone can beat anyone.

[Saint_Dad]

A much stronger offense in the second half of the SLU Clarkson game with Marvin moving up.  What a surprise the he missed a penalty kick with one minute to go.  He usually never misses those.  Hopefully Mogul will be back soon to ignite the offense.  SLU was the better team.  Clarkson uses a ton of subs to keep on the ball and disrupt their opponents.  I dont see them at the top of the table.

[stlawus]

I was impressed with Clarkson, they made very few mistakes and were good going forward.  As the previous poster mentioned, SLU missed two golden opportunities in the final minute and are probably disappointed to not get 3 points.  Clarkson was definitiely the better team in the first half, but they were tired out in the 2nd half and SLU got the better of the half in my opinion.  Rest of the month is shaping up to be an entertaining finish for the league.   

I also agree that they are missing Mogul, looked like he picked up a knock against RPI. He is the fastest player on the field in every game and is a very smooth finisher. They are also missing McDougald as well who was one of their better players last year.  He got stepped on his ankle in a preseason scrimmage and has still yet to make his debut.    It's basically a yearly tradition for the injury bug to affect SLU.  Can't really remember a season where it hasn't had an impact.   Everyone has injuries though, have to rise above it.

[Saint of Old]

A much stronger offense in the second half of the SLU Clarkson game with Marvin moving up.  What a surprise the he missed a penalty kick with one minute to go.  He usually never misses those.  Hopefully Mogul will be back soon to ignite the offense.  SLU was the better team.  Clarkson uses a ton of subs to keep on the ball and disrupt their opponents.  I dont see them at the top of the table.

Welcome aboard Saint-Dad.
I am looking forward to your thoughts as the weather gets colder.

Clarkson can be tricky this season, as one who initially underestimated them, it is clear to see why they dont give up many goals.
The culture is hard working.
Still, they have to maneuver a very difficult league and desperate teams going forward so who knows.

I have always said that the Saint10 is more of a point guard than any other position, he runs the game the way he wants to run it... slows it down/speeds it up.
We are all human.  I know from experience that missing a penalty in the dying moments of a SLU home game infront of our fans is a tough thing. I think this kid has the confidence to know that the entire Saint nation knows he will make the next one.

[stlawus]

A much stronger offense in the second half of the SLU Clarkson game with Marvin moving up.  What a surprise the he missed a penalty kick with one minute to go.  He usually never misses those.  Hopefully Mogul will be back soon to ignite the offense.  SLU was the better team.  Clarkson uses a ton of subs to keep on the ball and disrupt their opponents.  I dont see them at the top of the table.

Welcome aboard Saint-Dad.
I am looking forward to your thoughts as the weather gets colder.

Clarkson can be tricky this season, as one who initially underestimated them, it is clear to see why they dont give up many goals.
The culture is hard working.
Still, they have to maneuver a very difficult league and desperate teams going forward so who knows.

I have always said that the Saint10 is more of a point guard than any other position, he runs the game the way he wants to run it... slows it down/speeds it up.
We are all human.  I know from experience that missing a penalty in the dying moments of a SLU home game infront of our fans is a tough thing. I think this kid has the confidence to know that the entire Saint nation knows he will make the next one.

Stlawus Senior was at the game with me, and he had a completely unbiased view of the teams as this is his first time watching either of them.  He agreed that Clarkson seems deserving of their ranking and never gave the ball away.   He also said 10 is clearly the best player on the field and impressed him immensely.   He thought it was unusual but smart to play him like SLU does in the "point guard" style that Saint mentioned.   

And yes, welcome aboard Saint Dad.  The more the merrier, as sometimes it seems like me and Saint are talking to the walls in here!

[Saint of Old]

Deutchfan drops loads of knowledge on here as well man!

[stlawus]

Deutchfan drops loads of knowledge on here as well man!

How could I forget the Deutschfan!!! Many apologies to Deutsch, guy knows his stuff and keeps the conversation stoked.

[deutschfan]

Thanks for the props.  The Clarkson-SLU game was an enjoyable watch of two excellent teams.  I do miss overtimes.  There is nothing like the pressure and jubilation attendant to two sudden death (victory to be politically correct) periods. 

[Hopkins92]

Thanks for the props.  The Clarkson-SLU game was an enjoyable watch of two excellent teams.  I do miss overtimes.  There is nothing like the pressure and jubilation attendant to two sudden death (victory to be politically correct) periods.

I always thought the description is all about perspective. Your team is up 3-0 and loses 4-3... that's a catastrophic loss for you... It's miraculous for the other side.

So...sudden victory or death is in the eye of the blessed/damned.

[Saint_Dad]

SLU seems to be more offensive minded in the second half of their games.  Take a look at these stats.
 (not including Canton game)
                                   first half          second half
SLU/Opponent (goals)       6/6                    11/6
win-loss-tie (by half)        2-2-6                  5-1-4  (only loss was in 2nd half was to Hartwick, a game they won)

Last 6 games (goals)         3/3                     5/2     
win-loss-tie                     1-1-4                 3-0-3

What do you all think about why this has occurred?  Random? They're tactics change?  Never say die attitude?  I have my thoughts.  Curious what everyone else thinks.  Note that SLU scores more in the second half but the opponents do not.

[stlawus]

I think it's a combination of things.  They've given up goals early in the first half which leads me to believe that's a tactical issue and thus they adjust.   I also think it's a result of SLU's possession style and tremendous fitness levels.  In the Clarkson game I noticed that despite the frequent substitutions Clarkson looked tired in the last 15 minutes and SLU did not seem fatigued at all.  Partly why I do miss OT, in the Durocher years SLU won a lot of OT games due to being in great shape, and that was during the back to back league play days where that dynamic was more prevalent.

[Saint of Old]

That is because in Coach Durochers time he trained his footballers like they were from Rocky fighters, catching chickens and riding bikes . Tried to turn them into machines. Only team I recall ever matching our  (fitness level) when I played was a team called Norwich, a military school full of well drilled athletes. Fitness is big in football. It's not like Fifa where you hit the triangle button and get players to move fast. Everyone socks when they are tired. The trick is to train your body to not become tired.

[CU_GKnight]

It's been a while since i've posted but have been a long time lurker on the site. 

I think the reason that SLU is better late in games is not necessarily that they have better fitness than all other teams (although often they probably do). It has more to do with their possession style of play where they let the ball do the work.  Defending against a team that is constantly moving the ball requires two main things, discipline and fitness.  When you tire and the fitness breaks down the discipline declines even more rapidly.  With today's technology I would bet that if both Clarkson and SLU wore GPS trackers you would have found that the Clarkson players likely ran 20% more than the SLU players and likely at greater exertion rates.  I think this is why SLU is so dangerous late in games, their style simply wears other teams out.

As a former player for Clarkson I do want to throw a few things out there.  I think this years team deserves a lot of credit and may or may not deserve their current ranking. I think they deserve to be where they are in the polls (or at least in the RV category nationally) right now.  Whether they have overachieved and will regress is the question. Currently they have a lot of positives and a few areas that haven't yet developed.

Going back to preseason prognostication I would have agreed that having them outside the top 6 was appropriate based on last season, but I think some of the reasons people would put them their is more due to an over reliance on their performance in the early 2000's/2010's with some of the recent successes seen as outliers.  This is where I disagree (mostly with Saint of Old) that Clarkson is a bottom tier team that can win a game or two against Bard or Union. I think this also greatly dismisses the job that Carter Lincoln has done while at Clarkson (both as an assistant and head coach). Carter was an assistant in 2015 and 2016, left for year and came back as head coach in 2018.  I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for how well he can get a team to defend.  He got to Clarkson in 2015 and in the off season worked on team defending and in 2016 they allowed 13 goals (0.81/gm).  When he left they went to 22 (1.22) in 2017 but then once he returned they allowed 10 (0.59/gm) in 2018 and 16(0.80/gm) in 2019 on a team that lost the LL championship game on an own goal. In 2021 (no 2020 season) they struggled allowing 24 goals (1.5/gm) and had 4 games with the result decided in the last 2-3 minutes of the game.  I would see 2021 as the outlier for a team that has steadily progressed under Carter Lincoln. Now in 2022 they have conceded 2 goals in 10 games so I think it is safe to say that this is a program that is starting to show that they can defend with 3 or 4 seasons in the past 5 with a goals against under 1.

Back to this years team.  I haven't been able to see as many games as I would like as I am coaching during most game times.  I did see them play both games at CNU/VA Wesleyan and they are a well organized team that plays their system very well.  They currently haven't found a consistent threat on the offensive end and will likely live or die going forward on their ability to find players to step up and put the ball in the back of the net.  This lack of a consistent offensive threat would support them regressing to the mean and dropping a few more games and finishing mid-table in LL.  But on the opposite side, one thing that I think is overlooked is that they have gone on this run with many of the key pieces being freshman who are just starting to become fully comfortable at the college level.  Both keepers are freshman and are legit - look for them to be future stars in the LL.  They start freshman as their primary central defender and ball distributing center midfielder and both are very skilled players who will make themselves known far and wide if they continue to progress at the same rate.  They have also been getting a few goals from a freshman striker who seems to be showing signs of emergence as that offensive threat.  This freshman class is clearly a gem and if Carter builds on them with another few classes this will be a program to watch.

I hope they maintain their current defensive form and find a consistent offensive threat or two and earn a spot atop the league and avenge the tourney snub from 2019 (yes i'm still bitter on that one).  Also glad the conversation has picked up some on this thread.  Look forward to hearing more and letting the rest of the season play out as it looks like a wide open filed.