The Basketball Tournament

[Gregory Sager]

The guy in the red at the table has gas!

And the guy in the burgundy on the far left has just become aware of that.

[stlawus]

I am not going to name a specific person, but during the division I final 4 last year a comment was made on twitter about how D3 players are more skilled than D1 players, and this was from a regular d3hoops.com contributor.

Running down division I as a way to promote division III is a bad look and makes the community come off as having a persecution complex, which of course does nothing to positively promote division III.

[WUPHF]

There is a genre of "Division III is also a great option for ___________ reason" Tweets on #d3hoops Twitter that I cannot relate to.  If someone wants a Division I or Division II experience, let them go.  Division III does not need them.

But I think that Tweet and the opinion behind it is an outlier.

[stlawus]

Perhaps it is an outlier, but to your first point I have also seen comments from the same folks about how getting a division I scholarship isn't always better than playing division III.  Maybe in very specific situations that is true, but getting a full scholarship based on your athletic prowess is an incredible accomplishment.  I simply do not see the reason why one has to deride division I.   I follow both pretty closely across many sports and it's easy to compartmentalize and enjoy the best aspects of each.  If folks want division III to stand on its own merits I just don't see how that is accomplished by running down division I.

[Gregory Sager]

I am not going to name a specific person, but during the division I final 4 last year a comment was made on twitter about how D3 players are more skilled than D1 players, and this was from a regular d3hoops.com contributor.

Running down division I as a way to promote division III is a bad look and makes the community come off as having a persecution complex, which of course does nothing to positively promote division III.

I don't know the identity of the person of whom you speak (it wasn't me, if anyone's wondering), but in my estimation anyone who would say something like that doesn't deserve to be included in the same sentence as the word "intelligentsia," unless it's done in obvious mockery.

I agree 100% with your observation in your second paragraph.

Perhaps it is an outlier, but to your first point I have also seen comments from the same folks about how getting a division I scholarship isn't always better than playing division III.  Maybe in very specific situations that is true, but getting a full scholarship based on your athletic prowess is an incredible accomplishment.  I simply do not see the reason why one has to deride division I.   I follow both pretty closely across many sports and it's easy to compartmentalize and enjoy the best aspects of each.  If folks want division III to stand on its own merits I just don't see how that is accomplished by running down division I.

I'm not a fan of D1, and there's a truckload of things that I don't like about that division. But, for the most part, I agree with you -- especially when it concerns what goes on between the lines rather than outside of them.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

I am not going to name a specific person, but during the division I final 4 last year a comment was made on twitter about how D3 players are more skilled than D1 players, and this was from a regular d3hoops.com contributor.

Running down division I as a way to promote division III is a bad look and makes the community come off as having a persecution complex, which of course does nothing to positively promote division III.

I don't know the identity of the person of whom you speak (it wasn't me, if anyone's wondering), but in my estimation anyone who would say something like that doesn't deserve to be included in the same sentence as the word "intelligentsia," unless it's done in obvious mockery.

It's pretty obvious who the person in question is... fits the descriptors to a "T": posts on Twitter, doesn't deserve to be included in any "intelligentsia" conversation, doesn't participate in mockery - he simply abandons the platform altogether, promotes D3 - in particular IWU and Yeshiva - above all else..... #IWonderWhoThatMightBe

[Next Man Up]

We all (especially we regular contributors) like to consider ourselves intelligent despite the fact that we all sometimes get it wrong. Fortunately, most regular posters recognize our faults which prevents us from classifying ourselves as "intelligencia," the members of which often aren't.

And yes, running down D1 certainly isn't a good way to promote D3.
However, I think one of the above statements regarding D3 players being more skilled than their D1 counterparts is, in rare cases, true. The one particular area where I feel this phenomenon is sometimes true is fundamentals. That's because I think the pure athleticism of many, if not most, D1 players enables them to overcome most of any deficiencies they may have in the fundamentals of the game. The ability to run faster than a speeding bullet, leap tall buildings in a single bound, and regularly hit fall away 30 footers can often overcome deficiencies in things like ball handling, passing, and defensive positioning.

With regard to recruiting, you might be amazed at the number of kids out there who only measure their basketball talent by their ability to secure an athletic scholarship. They equate no scholarship with failure. And the really sad thing is often an athletic scholarship from a school not known as a stellar academic institution means more than an academic scholarship worth the same dollar amount from a school with a much more solid academic standing. Granted, the family financial situation sometimes makes an athletic scholarship a necessity, but often such is not the case. But again, kids have often been trained to think athletic scholarship = success. Much of the time this feeling is drilled into kids by their parents and/or by AAU coaches who are often in serious competition for mommy and daddy's dollars. They promise parents that in exchange for their money, they'll get their kid an athletic scholarship which, again in many cases means success. Blessed to say I've received my first D1 scholarship offer from University of Mars. Not the best bastion of academia, but at least it's not D3. LOL.

Another fun topic is the question of last man on the bench at a low D1 or D2 bench, or top player at a D3

[CNU85]

Good conversation. And I'm sure there are other Tweets from unsaid individual which help support the claim that they are beating down D1. I'm not on twitter much (firewalls at work block it). Just from the single comment somewhere below, I didn't take it as a knock on D1. I have a friend who is a coach, trainer, and also a college scout helping families find the right place for their student-athlete child. He constantly mentions that people measure success with Scholarships (D-1 or 2) and he reminds them that if your child is playing any college...D1, D2, D3, NAIA, then they are successful. He quotes stats on how many (%) are blessed to be playing collegiate ball. It puts things in a different perspective. I often look at rosters (like now I am looking at CNU rosters) and seeing high school All-State players on the roster. These are athletes who saw some looks from D1, maybe some offers, and the right fit for them happened to be a D3 school. That's not knocking D1 at all. But, as I said, I only see on these boards and not a collection of Tweets.

Interesting conversation though. Perhaps a slight change in grammar and the tweeter (is that a word?) can convey his/her message in a positive light.

Cheers Y'all!

[augie77]

Nope.  Not "Q".

[Gregory Sager]

Nope.  Not "Q".

I don't see his Twitter feed (his decision, not mine), and I didn't participate in any Twitter discussions during the D1 Final Four, but I was pretty sure it wasn't him. I've known Bob for 25 years, and I can't imagine him saying something both as sweeping and as preposterous as "D3 players are more skilled than D1 players."

[WUPHF]

I don't see his Twitter feed (his decision, not mine), and I didn't participate in any Twitter discussions during the D1 Final Four, but I was pretty sure it wasn't him. I've known Bob for 25 years, and I can't imagine him saying something both as sweeping and as preposterous as "D3 players are more skilled than D1 players."

Agreed.

[Next Man Up]

Good conversation. And I'm sure there are other Tweets from unsaid individual which help support the claim that they are beating down D1. I'm not on twitter much (firewalls at work block it). Just from the single comment somewhere below, I didn't take it as a knock on D1. I have a friend who is a coach, trainer, and also a college scout helping families find the right place for their student-athlete child. He constantly mentions that people measure success with Scholarships (D-1 or 2) and he reminds them that if your child is playing any college...D1, D2, D3, NAIA, then they are successful. He quotes stats on how many (%) are blessed to be playing collegiate ball. It puts things in a different perspective. I often look at rosters (like now I am looking at CNU rosters) and seeing high school All-State players on the roster. These are athletes who saw some looks from D1, maybe some offers, and the right fit for them happened to be a D3 school. That's not knocking D1 at all. But, as I said, I only see on these boards and not a collection of Tweets.

Interesting conversation though. Perhaps a slight change in grammar and the tweeter (is that a word?) can convey his/her message in a positive light.

Cheers Y'all!

I've been advised, and have seen stats indicating that roughly 1.2% of high school seniors go on to play at a D1 school, 1% at D2, 1.3% at D3 schools, and .5–.6% play NAIA.

[stlawus]

I am not going to name a specific person, but during the division I final 4 last year a comment was made on twitter about how D3 players are more skilled than D1 players, and this was from a regular d3hoops.com contributor.

Running down division I as a way to promote division III is a bad look and makes the community come off as having a persecution complex, which of course does nothing to positively promote division III.

I don't know the identity of the person of whom you speak (it wasn't me, if anyone's wondering), but in my estimation anyone who would say something like that doesn't deserve to be included in the same sentence as the word "intelligentsia," unless it's done in obvious mockery.

It's pretty obvious who the person in question is... fits the descriptors to a "T": posts on Twitter, doesn't deserve to be included in any "intelligentsia" conversation, doesn't participate in mockery - he simply abandons the platform altogether, promotes D3 - in particular IWU and Yeshiva - above all else..... #IWonderWhoThatMightBe

It was not that individual. 

[Ryan Scott (Hoops Fan)]

I said d3 players have to be more precise and disciplined in their movements, because they often lack the size and athleticism of d1 players and pay more dearly for mistakes. I maintain this is true and don't mind claiming the observation. The d1 tournament was, largely, sloppier than the d3 version, especially in the latter rounds.

[Ralph Turner]

I said d3 players have to be more precise and disciplined in their movements, because they often lack the size and athleticism of d1 players and pay more dearly for mistakes. I maintain this is true and don't mind claiming the observation. The d1 tournament was, largely, sloppier than the d3 version, especially in the latter rounds.

I am reminded of the old baseball aphorism that the best managers were the guys who got their "cup-of-coffee" in the majors, but knew the game so well, that they managed winners, e.g. Sparky Anderson (for whom the Cal Lu baseball field is named) versus Ted Williams.