NCAA Tournament 2025

[Hopkins92]

Once again, the argument to give these lads a days rest rears its head. I think I'd be less annoyed with this set up if programs spent a couple of weekends in late September or October running a few Sat/Sun weekends to understand what it actually looks like in practice.

As it stands, some of the most important games of the year take place with at least one of the sides exhausted, usually both. I don't like attrition playing such an outsized role.

Great point. I know there's a whole thing about their truncated schedule, but this is BIG deal come November dancing time.

This is why the NESCAC has teams in the championship game every year. Each team has at least 3 of those weekends every year(plus another if they make it to the NESCAC final), so they are plenty used to it.

[Kuiper]

It all comes down to squad management, every team enters the tournament with 24 players, you have to prepare for all possibilities The substitution rule is very generous!

Agreed.  Some of it was due to different circumstances and some of its was choice.  I did flag the issue before the Elite 8 - Tufts and Trinity had bigger leads and were able to rotate players in their Sweet 16 games, while Bowdoin and Augsburg played to double OT and didn't rotate their players as much.

For Bowdoin, I have less sympathy.  They only played two players off the bench for meaningful minutes and only three players total against Conn College and only played three players off the bench for meaningful minutes against Tufts and five total.  I get that there are injuries, illnesses etc, but a quick look at their stats for the year and its seems like they relied on a small number of players (relative to the size of the roster) for the bulk of the starts/minutes all season.  It got them to the Elite Eight, so maybe that was all worth it, but that indicates the problem was that they didn't have enough talent, or didn't develop the talent they had, rather than being the fault of the NCAA for not financing a day in-between games.

Augsburg, by contrast, played more of their bench all of their games.  I think those players were mostly rotating through the same positions, though, while at other positions they were riding the same players for full games down the stretch.  You kind of need to have multiple scorers, playmaking midfielders, outside backs and center back options, plus a second goalkeeper who has played meaningful games/minutes, to make a deep run in the tournament.

I'm not convinced that having a few Saturday/Sunday games during the season prepares you better for it during the post-season.  Tufts only had three weekends involving double games.  The first was Colby + Husson, and the latter game was a 6-0 win, so that was more like a squad rotation game.  The Hamilton-Conn College game was obviously a tougher combo, but Tufts still used 6-7 subs in each game and didn't play more than 3-4 players the full 90.  Same with all the games in the NESCAC tournament.  Tufts is just deeper and the coach rotates more.  I don't think it's like they are better conditioned for the double game weekends, especially since they played two in a row in mid-September and then didn't play any more games in a row for a month-and-a-half.  If anything, NESCAC teams might benefit from reporting for preseason a little later since I think the accumulated wear and tear on the body is part of the issue by the end of the season.

[Hopkins92]

Kuiper - I'm gonna find a few choice quotes of your posts to sign your praises over the last few week. Your analysis and content have been really incredible all season, but have really been spectacular during the tournament.

You guys are correct. Given the existing schedule, coaches need to be more circumspect.

But other than the NESCAC, who has a weirdly truncated schedule, not many other teams in D3 have a Sat/Sun schedule as a regular feature.

I'm not suggesting NESCAC has an unfair advantage, but, really... When you get this deep into November, I just don't think it's fair to ask teams to play this many minutes inside of 48 hours.

Again, not a NESCAC hater. On any level. I just think the last 4 weeks of D3 soccer are not representative of the overall landscape.

[camosfan]

24 hours between games is reasonable at this level, when you have almost limitless substitution. These teams will be coming off two weeks rest.

[Ejay]

Pretty pleased with my bracket thus far.

Tufts (#1) v. Messiah (#107)
Conn College (#7) v. Bowdoin (#9)

Augsburg (#2) v. Cortland (#18)
Wash U (#10) v. Trinity (#12)

St. Olaf (#3) v. Williams (#17)
Macalester (#6) v. Wheaton (MA) (#21)

Lynchburg (#4) v. Dickinson (#22)
Emory (#5) v. Rowan (#32)

Still pretty pleased with my bracket. If only it had some kind of value...

Tufts (#1) vs. St. Olaf (#3)
Trinity (#12) vs. Emory (#5)

[Hopkins92]

24 hours between games is reasonable at this level, when you have almost limitless substitution. These teams will be coming off two weeks rest.

But, it's not limitless. Saying "almost" isn't an accurate qualifier. I coached youth soccer... That's limitless.

If you were able to start a guy, pull him after 20 and then put him back in at 35-- and do the same thing in the second... That's "almost" limitless.

Not being able to bring a person back in after subbing them out during a half is limited subbing.

And we'll just agree to disagree about 24 hours being adequate time to recover.

[Mr_November]

24 hours between games is reasonable at this level, when you have almost limitless substitution. These teams will be coming off two weeks rest.

But, it's not limitless. Saying "almost" isn't an accurate qualifier. I coached youth soccer... That's limitless.

If you were able to start a guy, pull him after 20 and then put him back in at 35-- and do the same thing in the second... That's "almost" limitless.

Not being able to bring a person back in after subbing them out during a half is limited subbing.

And we'll just agree to disagree about 24 hours being adequate time to recover.

As I remember from my time playing NCAA tournament games back-to-back, I can recall that 24 hours was enough time for those to recover who had somehow came out unscathed. But for most players (those who played significant minutes on Saturday) you're bound to have tight hamstrings/calves, little knicks that slow you down a half-second, and even an emotional hangover from the day before.

I'm not necessarily taking a stance either way with my comment, I'm just saying it does significantly hamper players from playing at their top level the next day. With the NCAAs being the biggest stage, you'd want players to be able to compete at their highest level through physical recovery and mental preparation, and back to back games does not typically allow for that.

[SierraFD3soccer]

24 hours between games is reasonable at this level, when you have almost limitless substitution. These teams will be coming off two weeks rest.

But, it's not limitless. Saying "almost" isn't an accurate qualifier. I coached youth soccer... That's limitless.

If you were able to start a guy, pull him after 20 and then put him back in at 35-- and do the same thing in the second... That's "almost" limitless.

Not being able to bring a person back in after subbing them out during a half is limited subbing.

And we'll just agree to disagree about 24 hours being adequate time to recover.

Yeah, just funny how during the season they can't play an extra possible 20 min for "safety" reasons to give teams a chance to resolve ties using a golden goal. Yet during playoffs they play extra 20 min and another game 24 or less hours later.

If they were so concerned then they should go directly to PKs after 90 in NCAAs.

[Mr_November]

24 hours between games is reasonable at this level, when you have almost limitless substitution. These teams will be coming off two weeks rest.

But, it's not limitless. Saying "almost" isn't an accurate qualifier. I coached youth soccer... That's limitless.

If you were able to start a guy, pull him after 20 and then put him back in at 35-- and do the same thing in the second... That's "almost" limitless.

Not being able to bring a person back in after subbing them out during a half is limited subbing.

And we'll just agree to disagree about 24 hours being adequate time to recover.

Yeah, just funny how during the season they can't play an extra possible 20 min for "safety" reasons to give teams a chance to resolve ties using a golden goal. Yet during playoffs they play extra 20 min and another game 24 or less hours later.

If they were so concerned then they should go directly to PKs after 90 in NCAAs.

#BringBackOTandGoldenGoal

[Mr_November]

Who are everyone's surprise teams of the tournament? You can take the word "surprise" however you'd like. For me, I'm thinking about teams I had only seen on paper, but was surprised at how good they were when I actually tuned in to their games. In 2024, that team for me was Wisconsin-Eau Claire.

This year, my surprise team was Catholic- and particularly when I watched them against Amherst. Not only did they play a direct, punchy style--but mentally they were very strong and up for everything. My other surprise team was Babson. Even though they lost to Conn, they were a joy to watch. Super aggressive and press extremely well. I watched them score a wonder goal where they lobbed it to JR #9, who took it down on his chest, spun, and volleyed home a magnificant goal.

[SierraFD3soccer]

From the studies I recall, soccer games should be scheduled no less than 6 days apart. Some say at least 72 hours is the minimum. All substantially more than 24 hours.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Definitely - #BringBackOTandGoldenGoal

Huge mistake

[Freddyfud]

Not to add gasoline onto fires but with respect to post season travel this year at least the teams completed walkthroughs at the sites on Friday as scheduled and allowed by the NCAA.  Many teams traveled and checked into hotels on Thursday anyway.  Seems like an opportunity to schedule Friday/Sunday games if the walkthroughs are not as important as recovery.

As for Messiah some Rowan players felt they were one of the most, if not the most, difficult opponents this season.  A team that plays through its midfield rather than by bypassing it altogether seems to be more of an exception.  If anything I would expect this to actually be favorable on the recruiting circuit after observing youth programs the past 5 or 6 years.

[Kuiper]

24 hours between games is reasonable at this level, when you have almost limitless substitution. These teams will be coming off two weeks rest.

But, it's not limitless. Saying "almost" isn't an accurate qualifier. I coached youth soccer... That's limitless.

If you were able to start a guy, pull him after 20 and then put him back in at 35-- and do the same thing in the second... That's "almost" limitless.

Not being able to bring a person back in after subbing them out during a half is limited subbing.

And we'll just agree to disagree about 24 hours being adequate time to recover.

Yeah, just funny how during the season they can't play an extra possible 20 min for "safety" reasons to give teams a chance to resolve ties using a golden goal. Yet during playoffs they play extra 20 min and another game 24 or less hours later.

If they were so concerned then they should go directly to PKs after 90 in NCAAs.

Coaches are all for safety as long as it doesn't interfere with winning. So, they will play their best players until their legs fall off rather than risk a loss by playing non-first choice players in high leverage games, situations, and positions. 

On the golden goal issue, the coaches made noise about safety, but that was more for public consumption than because it was the primary driver since they could always play more of their bench players and mitigate the issue on their own.  The rationale for eliminating OT that was more persuasive to coaches, ADs and Presidents was that it affected how late they got home (a legit issue when you need to catch a flight - which was frequently the case in Region X and there were missed flights and connections - or when you had a long bus drive home after an evening game with school the next morning).  Coaches are also much more comfortable with ties than losses because they are risk averse.  Ties look better on a coach's record record than losses.  You can't do that in the NCAA or conference tournament, though, so that's why OT and PKs remain.  They could go straight to PKs and avoid the extra strain on the body from two OT periods, but the stakes are higher and in those games a technical tie (via a PK) is not better than a loss on your record since everyone thinks of it as a loss in the tournament.

[SierraFD3soccer]

So a team like Haverford ended up 10-0-9 (lost last game on PK to the Muhls in the CC tournament) did not have a chance to win (or lose) almost half of their season and on top do not qual for the NCAA tourn. Spent the whole season unblemished, but end up 81st on the NPI.

FYI, field hockey (that is truly a dangerous sport, really), volleyball (best of 5 with extra points when tied at the end of each set), basketball, lacrosse (to the death), hockey!!!!, wrestling, football!!!!!!!!! etc, etc all go extra time/points in their games/matches to determine winners. Oh, yeah, baseball and softball play extra innings. Don't many of them have buses, planes, trains, boats, scooters, alpacas to catch??? Are soccer players just too dainty???

As to out west, they come a day early and they can have the game at 1 or 2 in the afternoon which most likely will leave enough time make an 8pm flight.

Some will say that these sports don't tie enough in reg. time. Oh, no, no, no, basketball, football and lacrosse maybe not, but goals are HUGE in fh and hockey.

Hockey and football CTE alert, but not enough injuries, future death, to not figure out a way to settle things. I would also argue that football, lacrosse, hockey, and, maybe, field hockey have equal or more injuries when compared to soccer. 

Yeah, I know it is the int'l way. Hah, we only play in the US.

If you are not bringing back extra time, make wins 4 pts and ramp up NPI for wins. Or maybe make ties .5 and continue wins 3 points. That'll make risk adverse coaches and players work harder in the 90 min. imo.

In baseball, they start with a man on second. Maybe in soccer have overtime with 10 v 10 in the first overtime and then 8 v 8 in the second?? That will cut down on over a bit??