FB: Ohio Athletic Conference

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

Two of my former players are now coaching at Berry.  They've got a good thing going down there but I think JCU is legit.

[pradierguy]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

That being said, there is something about this generation of players that plays a part. No longer are extremely talented kids choosing to come to Mount knowing they might not play until their Junior or Senior years. Kids would rather take the "easier" route to playing time a join programs like BW, Wittenberg, etc. so they can play immediately. This era of youth sports with the incredibly insane parenting has caused a paradigm shift where little Johnny has to continue being the star of the show, and team results be dammed. It used to be a honor to wait your turn at Mount Union, but now that is just an insult to the player and their families if they aren't starting.

In the golden era, the OAC was:
#1 - Mount Union
#2 - Mount Union 2nd Unit
# 3- Maybe a Capital/BW/Heidelberg mixed in
#4 - Mount Union 3rd Unit

Those days are long gone. And I think its a function of the NCAA landscape these days, but also the reasons I mentioned above. That competitive edge and depth is completely absent at Mount.

[D3fanboy]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

That being said, there is something about this generation of players that plays a part. No longer are extremely talented kids choosing to come to Mount knowing they might not play until their Junior or Senior years. Kids would rather take the "easier" route to playing time a join programs like BW, Wittenberg, etc. so they can play immediately. This era of youth sports with the incredibly insane parenting has caused a paradigm shift where little Johnny has to continue being the star of the show, and team results be dammed. It used to be a honor to wait your turn at Mount Union, but now that is just an insult to the player and their families if they aren't starting.

In the golden era, the OAC was:
#1 - Mount Union
#2 - Mount Union 2nd Unit
# 3- Maybe a Capital/BW/Heidelberg mixed in
#4 - Mount Union 3rd Unit

Those days are long gone. And I think its a function of the NCAA landscape these days, but also the reasons I mentioned above. That competitive edge and depth is completely absent at Mount.

like you said that is a college sports problem at every level, however Mount has always had kids leaving after a year or two.  They'd bring in 100+ freshman but less than a quarter of that would still be around as seniors.  Maybe if the Raiders would blow out a bottom feeder OAC program every once in a while, and get the starters out at the half, some of the underclassmen would get a little PT.

The current culture of the Mount Union program is just off.  You hear the successful LK disciples (Campbell, Candle, Sirianni, Elder, etc) talk about their programs and culture and you notice a big difference between that and what's going on in Alliance these days

[JCUStreaks70]

Ask the thousands of guys who played in the OAC if an OAC title is meaningless? This group of seniors won four OAC Championships and beat a lot of excellent non conference teams. They had a hell of a run. Congratulations to them and their coaching staff. I cant believe I have to root for JCU the rest of the way, but I will.

I'll allow it! haha

[D3fanboy]

lots of Mount Union and LK talk in a very passionate, emotional and fiery introductory press conference for new Penn State head coach, Matt Campbell.  He's going to do great in Happy Valley, an absolute alpha leading your program is a big thing

[Raider 68]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

That being said, there is something about this generation of players that plays a part. No longer are extremely talented kids choosing to come to Mount knowing they might not play until their Junior or Senior years. Kids would rather take the "easier" route to playing time a join programs like BW, Wittenberg, etc. so they can play immediately. This era of youth sports with the incredibly insane parenting has caused a paradigm shift where little Johnny has to continue being the star of the show, and team results be dammed. It used to be a honor to wait your turn at Mount Union, but now that is just an insult to the player and their families if they aren't starting.

In the golden era, the OAC was:
#1 - Mount Union
#2 - Mount Union 2nd Unit
# 3- Maybe a Capital/BW/Heidelberg mixed in
#4 - Mount Union 3rd Unit

Those days are long gone. And I think its a function of the NCAA landscape these days, but also the reasons I mentioned above. That competitive edge and depth is completely absent at Mount.

like you said that is a college sports problem at every level, however Mount has always had kids leaving after a year or two.  They'd bring in 100+ freshman but less than a quarter of that would still be around as seniors.  Maybe if the Raiders would blow out a bottom feeder OAC program every once in a while, and get the starters out at the half, some of the underclassmen would get a little PT.

The current culture of the Mount Union program is just off.  You hear the successful LK disciples (Campbell, Candle, Sirianni, Elder, etc) talk about their programs and culture and you notice a big difference between that and what's going on in Alliance these days

Agree,

There are a multitude of issues that have affected the Raiders over the last five years, but the decline will continue unless the University wakes up to the fact that a new direction is solely needed. Could Mount be moving to a Capital attitude where the football program is fine as long as you can win a consistently weaker conference? I believe that the program has relied on its
former reputation as a top program in D3. At this point, Mount is lucky to be a top five football contender. As many have posted, Mount is no longer a team that most other schools fear.

Unless there are changes at the top, the University, the AD will just go on thinking everything is great. The attendance will continue to shrink and even the most loyal fans and alums will consider other teams to follow on Saturdays. Only playing one or two competitive games will not maintain much interest.

As a former player, active alum, I beginning to question if I want to remain a season ticket holder.

[D3fanboy]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

That being said, there is something about this generation of players that plays a part. No longer are extremely talented kids choosing to come to Mount knowing they might not play until their Junior or Senior years. Kids would rather take the "easier" route to playing time a join programs like BW, Wittenberg, etc. so they can play immediately. This era of youth sports with the incredibly insane parenting has caused a paradigm shift where little Johnny has to continue being the star of the show, and team results be dammed. It used to be a honor to wait your turn at Mount Union, but now that is just an insult to the player and their families if they aren't starting.

In the golden era, the OAC was:
#1 - Mount Union
#2 - Mount Union 2nd Unit
# 3- Maybe a Capital/BW/Heidelberg mixed in
#4 - Mount Union 3rd Unit

Those days are long gone. And I think its a function of the NCAA landscape these days, but also the reasons I mentioned above. That competitive edge and depth is completely absent at Mount.

like you said that is a college sports problem at every level, however Mount has always had kids leaving after a year or two.  They'd bring in 100+ freshman but less than a quarter of that would still be around as seniors.  Maybe if the Raiders would blow out a bottom feeder OAC program every once in a while, and get the starters out at the half, some of the underclassmen would get a little PT.

The current culture of the Mount Union program is just off.  You hear the successful LK disciples (Campbell, Candle, Sirianni, Elder, etc) talk about their programs and culture and you notice a big difference between that and what's going on in Alliance these days

Agree,

There are a multitude of issues that have affected the Raiders over the last five years, but the decline will continue unless the University wakes up to the fact that a new direction is solely needed. Could Mount be moving to a Capital attitude where the football program is fine as long as you can win a consistently weaker conference? I believe that the program has relied on its
former reputation as a top program in D3. At this point, Mount is lucky to be a top five football contender. As many have posted, Mount is no longer a team that most other schools fear.

Unless there are changes at the top, the University, the AD will just go on thinking everything is great. The attendance will continue to shrink and even the most loyal fans and alums will consider other teams to follow on Saturdays. Only playing one or two competitive games will not maintain much interest.

As a former player, active alum, I beginning to question if I want to remain a season ticket holder.

its not just game attendance that will suffer.  As a high school student from outside of the greater-Mount Union area, I only knew of MUC because the Raiders were on ESPN every December in the Stagg Bowl.  I'm sure that my experience is not a unique one. 

[hazzben]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

Apologies for being an interloper. Replacing a truly generational coach like LK is almost impossible. It's what makes him LK, there's an innate greatness and genius and drive that are in and of themselves a secret sauce. Same with LL, Saban, Osborne, etc. You can be one of their protege's, trying to use the same formula, but that's still not the genuine article.

To me Dart is in an almost un-winnable situation. He's being held to the LK standard, but in reality that standard had already started slipping when he took the program over. First year was COVID, and he was already 3 years removed from their last National Title. He wasn't handed the keys to "The Machine" in even the same way VK was. Not to mention I feel like I remember LK being an assistant helping Vince in a few of those seasons. Maybe he's also just not "it," but again this feels almost un-winnable.

But what about the university itself has changed to make it harder to win at Mount? That's a genuine question, zero snark implied. I know Bethel will always spend considerably less on FB than a school like SJU. It's just reality, we try to make more with less. NCC has upped their commitment, they've got perfect institutional alignment, alumni backing things, and 9 full time coaches, etc. etc. What about Mount from the institutional side has changed in 2025 from 2015 or 2001 or 1997?

[pradierguy]

But what about the university itself has changed to make it harder to win at Mount? That's a genuine question, zero snark implied.

I am the least political person I know, but several people I know that have inner ties to the university have used forms of the phrase 'go woke, go broke.'

The lack of attention put on the program that has turned Mount Union into the school today is mind numbing. It is almost like the football program is a badge of shame as it doesn't fit the image being put forth to be an athletic led institution.

Could be way off, but there are points of evidence that do support this theory.

And it was not always this way.

[D3fanboy]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

Apologies for being an interloper. Replacing a truly generational coach like LK is almost impossible. It's what makes him LK, there's an innate greatness and genius and drive that are in and of themselves a secret sauce. Same with LL, Saban, Osborne, etc. You can be one of their protege's, trying to use the same formula, but that's still not the genuine article.

To me Dart is in an almost un-winnable situation. He's being held to the LK standard, but in reality that standard had already started slipping when he took the program over. First year was COVID, and he was already 3 years removed from their last National Title. He wasn't handed the keys to "The Machine" in even the same way VK was. Not to mention I feel like I remember LK being an assistant helping Vince in a few of those seasons. Maybe he's also just not "it," but again this feels almost un-winnable.

Screwed up the LK/VK transition dates LK went out in 2015 with a heavy, heavy senior-laden national championship team in 2015, the cupboard was pretty bare for VK (by Mount standards).  VK's first year (2016) he inherited zero QB's on his roster and went through the season with 3 different true freshmen QB's.  Went to the semis in 16, won a title in 17, went to the Stagg in 18 and while it was a 2nd rd loss, I don't think the NCC game in 19 is in the same stratosphere as Alma or JCU.  2019's national title game was played in the 2nd rd in Alliance.  I'd say VK left the program in about the same state that he inherited it in.  Not the 96-02 Raiders, probably not even the decade run against UWW type Mount Union, but definitely still the tippy top echelon.

Dartt took over prior to COVID, with a much, much more loaded roster than when LK left.  But its been a pretty significant drop.  The highs are lower and the lows are unbelievably low.  I don't think anybody is expecting Dartt to be LK, or even VK.  But if he could be even a little bit less Geoff, that might work a little better

[MUC 2008]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

Apologies for being an interloper. Replacing a truly generational coach like LK is almost impossible. It's what makes him LK, there's an innate greatness and genius and drive that are in and of themselves a secret sauce. Same with LL, Saban, Osborne, etc. You can be one of their protege's, trying to use the same formula, but that's still not the genuine article.

To me Dart is in an almost un-winnable situation. He's being held to the LK standard, but in reality that standard had already started slipping when he took the program over. First year was COVID, and he was already 3 years removed from their last National Title. He wasn't handed the keys to "The Machine" in even the same way VK was. Not to mention I feel like I remember LK being an assistant helping Vince in a few of those seasons. Maybe he's also just not "it," but again this feels almost un-winnable.

LK went out in 2015 with a heavy, heavy senior-laden national championship team in 2015, the cupboard was pretty bare for VK (by Mount standards).  VK's first year (2016) he inherited zero QB's on his roster and went through the season with 3 different true freshmen QB's.  Went to the semis in 16, won a title in 17, went to the Stagg in 18 and while it was a 2nd rd loss, I don't think the NCC game in 19 is in the same stratosphere as Alma or JCU.  2019's national title game was played in the 2nd rd in Alliance.  I'd say VK left the program in about the same state that he inherited it in.  Not the 96-02 Raiders, probably not even the decade run against UWW type Mount Union, but definitely still the tippy top echelon.

Dartt took over prior to COVID, with a much, much more loaded roster than when LK left.  But its been a pretty significant drop.  The highs are lower and the lows are unbelievably low.  I don't think anybody is expecting Dartt to be LK, or even VK.  But if he could be even a little bit less Geoff, that might work a little better

Not to take away your points because I by and large agree, but just to clarify VK's first season as HC was 2013. LK won in 2012 over Saint Tommy in the Stagg and that was it. Again - I largely agree with you.

[D3fanboy]

I think Mount's decline is largely due to coaching and the university itself.

Apologies for being an interloper. Replacing a truly generational coach like LK is almost impossible. It's what makes him LK, there's an innate greatness and genius and drive that are in and of themselves a secret sauce. Same with LL, Saban, Osborne, etc. You can be one of their protege's, trying to use the same formula, but that's still not the genuine article.

To me Dart is in an almost un-winnable situation. He's being held to the LK standard, but in reality that standard had already started slipping when he took the program over. First year was COVID, and he was already 3 years removed from their last National Title. He wasn't handed the keys to "The Machine" in even the same way VK was. Not to mention I feel like I remember LK being an assistant helping Vince in a few of those seasons. Maybe he's also just not "it," but again this feels almost un-winnable.

LK went out in 2015 with a heavy, heavy senior-laden national championship team in 2015, the cupboard was pretty bare for VK (by Mount standards).  VK's first year (2016) he inherited zero QB's on his roster and went through the season with 3 different true freshmen QB's.  Went to the semis in 16, won a title in 17, went to the Stagg in 18 and while it was a 2nd rd loss, I don't think the NCC game in 19 is in the same stratosphere as Alma or JCU.  2019's national title game was played in the 2nd rd in Alliance.  I'd say VK left the program in about the same state that he inherited it in.  Not the 96-02 Raiders, probably not even the decade run against UWW type Mount Union, but definitely still the tippy top echelon.

Dartt took over prior to COVID, with a much, much more loaded roster than when LK left.  But its been a pretty significant drop.  The highs are lower and the lows are unbelievably low.  I don't think anybody is expecting Dartt to be LK, or even VK.  But if he could be even a little bit less Geoff, that might work a little better

Not to take away your points because I by and large agree, but just to clarify VK's first season as HC was 2013. LK won in 2012 over Saint Tommy in the Stagg and that was it. Again - I largely agree with you.

damn, I knew it was after a title.  Thanks.  I'm getting too old.

[blue_jays]

2021 - ran into a buzzsaw with NCC in the semis, no shame
2022 - needed a hail mary bounce off of a BW player to win the conference (after being up 17-0 at half, the only other score was the hail mary)  made a run to the Stagg Bowl.  Offense didn't show up until the 4th quarter after a 21-0 hole
2023 - Alma.  Was the Dartt masterpiece until 12/6/25
2024 - great run to the Stagg Bowl after a couple of turds in OAC play.  The end of the 1st half coaching blunders took away any chance of an upset
2025- peaked in week 2 (or was it the 3rd quarter of game 1?)  went through the motions for much of the OAC year and laid the program's biggest egg yesterday

can't wait to see what is in store for the 2026 Raiders

I know you all might have talked yourself into this being a possibility at the time, but there was no way that NCC team was gonna lose in 2024. Lehnen was not going to be denied regardless of how close the game ever got. They were a juggernaut for a reason.

[WRMUalum13]

But what about the university itself has changed to make it harder to win at Mount? That's a genuine question, zero snark implied.

I am the least political person I know, but several people I know that have inner ties to the university have used forms of the phrase 'go woke, go broke.'

The lack of attention put on the program that has turned Mount Union into the school today is mind numbing. It is almost like the football program is a badge of shame as it doesn't fit the image being put forth to be an athletic led institution.

Could be way off, but there are points of evidence that do support this theory.

And it was not always this way.

I've heard this argument about Mount not being proud of football, but I have yet to see any actual evidence of it.

Since I graduated in 2013, football facilities have grown significantly (additional turf practice fields, renovated locker room, dom capers media center, an entire building dedicated to viewing film etc) The school also continues to invest in a high quality video stream of games.

The school was happy to highlight coach Sirianni's success with the Eagles and they tend to highlight other alums as well. I'm just not buying it.

[WRMUalum13]

2021 - ran into a buzzsaw with NCC in the semis, no shame
2022 - needed a hail mary bounce off of a BW player to win the conference (after being up 17-0 at half, the only other score was the hail mary)  made a run to the Stagg Bowl.  Offense didn't show up until the 4th quarter after a 21-0 hole
2023 - Alma.  Was the Dartt masterpiece until 12/6/25
2024 - great run to the Stagg Bowl after a couple of turds in OAC play.  The end of the 1st half coaching blunders took away any chance of an upset
2025- peaked in week 2 (or was it the 3rd quarter of game 1?)  went through the motions for much of the OAC year and laid the program's biggest egg yesterday

can't wait to see what is in store for the 2026 Raiders

I know you all might have talked yourself into this being a possibility at the time, but there was no way that NCC team was gonna lose in 2024. Lehnen was not going to be denied regardless of how close the game ever got. They were a juggernaut for a reason.

Did you miss the 2023 Stagg Bowl?

Admittedly yes, NCC was a clearly better team last year, but I don't think a Mount upset was outside the realm of possibility. I mean Lehnen is only 2/4 in Stagg Bowls