FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[finsleft]

I've got a couple Ole alums at work, one of which played football for one year.  In past years I've had to give him points or two to one odds on the Johnnie / Ole tilt.  I figure for this Saturday's tilt he should give me and the Johnnies 7 points.  Any thoughts?

AO's giving 7.5. But what do I know about picking winners?

[AO]

Johnnie_esq,

Agree with all your points.  I was expecting someone to mention Title IX.  I am only comparing SJU to U$T football spending and pointing out that football supports more male programs than U$T.  .  I'm willing to bet the Tomcats are putting more $$'s into their football program.  I wouldn't be surprised if Caruso is taking home 2X what John is.  If not now, soon.  They'll have to do that to keep him, in my opinion.

I had always assumed CSB-SJU was subject to title IX.  That's a massive advantage if they cared to use it more.  Forget St. Thomas going D-1, the Johnnies could make the switch much more easily.

[SUMMIT!!!!!]

AO-- your lines are tooo good. Are you SURE you dont work in Vegas?

[johnnie_esq]

Johnnie_esq,

Agree with all your points.  I was expecting someone to mention Title IX.  I am only comparing SJU to U$T football spending and pointing out that football supports more male programs than U$T.  .  I'm willing to bet the Tomcats are putting more $$'s into their football program.  I wouldn't be surprised if Caruso is taking home 2X what John is.  If not now, soon.  They'll have to do that to keep him, in my opinion.

I had always assumed CSB-SJU was subject to title IX.  That's a massive advantage if they cared to use it more.  Forget St. Thomas going D-1, the Johnnies could make the switch much more easily.

They are two universities when it benefits them to be two; they are one when it benefits them to be one.  The best of all worlds, really.

I know you are tongue-in-cheek, but the above strategy works while you are small; but wouldn't on a larger scale.  But as of now, who could challenge the arrangement?  A CSB doesn't necessarily have standing in a legal sense to do it-- as she is not enrolled at SJU, and the costs involved would not be beneficial to the student.  However, when the stakes are higher, the economics for such a challenge begin to make sense. 

But the CSB/SJU status quo has its benefits for both sides of the Title IX argument. 

(As a disclaimer, CSB/SJU receives federal funding and therefore is subject to Title IX.  But because neither are co-educational institutions at the undergraduate level, their obligations are different than, say, any other MIAC school (save St. Kate's),)

[USTBench]

Johnnie_esq,

Agree with all your points.  I was expecting someone to mention Title IX.  I am only comparing SJU to U$T football spending and pointing out that football supports more male programs than U$T.  .  I'm willing to bet the Tomcats are putting more $$'s into their football program.  I wouldn't be surprised if Caruso is taking home 2X what John is.  If not now, soon.  They'll have to do that to keep him, in my opinion.

I had always assumed CSB-SJU was subject to title IX.  That's a massive advantage if they cared to use it more.  Forget St. Thomas going D-1, the Johnnies could make the switch much more easily.

They are two universities when it benefits them to be two; they are one when it benefits them to be one.  The best of all worlds, really.

I know you are tongue-in-cheek, but the above strategy works while you are small; but wouldn't on a larger scale.  But as of now, who could challenge the arrangement?  A CSB doesn't necessarily have standing in a legal sense to do it-- as she is not enrolled at SJU, and the costs involved would not be beneficial to the student.  However, when the stakes are higher, the economics for such a challenge begin to make sense. 

But the CSB/SJU status quo has its benefits for both sides of the Title IX argument. 

(As a disclaimer, CSB/SJU receives federal funding and therefore is subject to Title IX.  But because neither are co-educational institutions at the undergraduate level, their obligations are different than, say, any other MIAC school (save St. Kate's),)

If some lawyer were creative enough at CSB I'm sure they could massage the arrangement to create "standing." Classes together, shared use of facilities, etc.

I mean, if the Spirit Lake Indian Reservation thinks they have "standing" to sue the NCAA for their proposed sanctions against UND for continued use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, anything is possible.

[SagatagSam]

If some lawyer were creative enough at CSB I'm sure they could massage the arrangement to create "standing." Classes together, shared use of facilities, etc.

I mean, if the Spirit Lake Indian Reservation thinks they have "standing" to sue the NCAA for their proposed sanctions against UND for continued use of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname, anything is possible.

I told you once, I'm telling you again: DON'T GIVE 'EM ANY IDEAS. Next thing you know, the Bennies will be raiding Gags coffers to fund whatever it is they do over there at CSB.

[AO]

I've got a couple Ole alums at work, one of which played football for one year.  In past years I've had to give him points or two to one odds on the Johnnie / Ole tilt.  I figure for this Saturday's tilt he should give me and the Johnnies 7 points.  Any thoughts?

AO's giving 7.5. But what do I know about picking winners?

Maybe I should have given the Johnnies more points.  I just ran a simulation and Clark/Dobson were pretty much unstoppable.  Here's one of the highlights from the simulation. I'm surprised Clark wasn't hit with a penalty after throwing the ball in Dammerman's face after the TD.

[DustySJU]

Careful there, ROR.

SJU may sponsor 11 sports compared to UST's 10, but UST also sponsors 10 women's sports-- and is required to do so through Title IX.

While CSB has their own athletic department, are you suggesting that the SJU athletic department is sending football revenue to CSB?  I would be shocked if that were the case.

In the last 15 years, SJU has:

1.)  Upgraded the bleachers and press box and track and weight room (1997-1998)
2.)  Built a fieldhouse (1997-1998)
3.)  Added field turf (2002)
4.)  Added a text scoreboard display (appx. 2003)
5.)  Fenced the field (appx. 2003)
6.)  Added temporary bleachers (appx. 2004)
7.)  Renovated the locker room facilities (appx. 2005)
8.)  Expanded the temporary bleachers (appx. 2007)
9.)  Expanded the press box for suites (2009)
10.)  Adding lights for evening activities (2011-2012)

Along the way, have supported a roster of approximately 200 with at least 11 coaches annually throughout that same period.  That U$T has caught up and is now spending a comparable amount does not provide an excuse for SJU's use of those resources. It is preposterous to suggest other MIAC schools (other than U$T which spends money on everything) is even in the same ballpark in terms of funding their programs to the same level.  You can't say that Bethel and STO, despite their own facilities enhancements over the same time period, are even approaching this level of commitment.

When reviewing the resources both SJU and UST invest in just their coaching staffs the Tomcats may indeed swing the level of balance considerably in their favor. 

UST lists 13 total coaches including both head coach and a strength and conditioning coach.  Among those 13 coaches only two of those positions are staffed by UST alums.  The UST program is benefiting from a healthy coaching staff as well as an infusion of high level experience.  Their assistant coaches list playing expereince including Northern Illinois(2), University of North Dakota, North Dakota State, University of Iowa, U.S. Naval Academy, University of Iowa and University of MN.

In contrast St. John's does not list a single coach other than John Gagliardi and Jim Mader (offensive line) who list playing experience other than SJU.  Although SJU has a slightly smaller staff of 11, their entire staff is organically grown.  The Johnnies at some point have probably employed a grad assistant with division I experience but I wouldn't be able to say who that was. 

For the most part I'm confident in the coaches SJU is employing however an addition of a few new ideas might be a place to start.

Also hoping the 360 degree assessment the athletic department just completed might point this out.

[Retired Old Rat]

I've got a couple Ole alums at work, one of which played football for one year.  In past years I've had to give him points or two to one odds on the Johnnie / Ole tilt.  I figure for this Saturday's tilt he should give me and the Johnnies 7 points.  Any thoughts?

AO's giving 7.5. But what do I know about picking winners?

Maybe I should have given the Johnnies more points.  I just ran a simulation and Clark/Dobson were pretty much unstoppable.  Here's one of the highlights from the simulation. I'm surprised Clark wasn't hit with a penalty after throwing the ball in Dammerman's face after the TD.

AO, very funny and impressive.  I love Clark throwing the ball in Dammerman's face.

+k for that.

You might hit even before your children are enrolled SJU/CSB.  ;-)

[tmerton]

Careful there, ROR.

SJU may sponsor 11 sports compared to UST's 10, but UST also sponsors 10 women's sports-- and is required to do so through Title IX.

While CSB has their own athletic department, are you suggesting that the SJU athletic department is sending football revenue to CSB?  I would be shocked if that were the case.

In the last 15 years, SJU has:

1.)  Upgraded the bleachers and press box and track and weight room (1997-1998)
2.)  Built a fieldhouse (1997-1998)
3.)  Added field turf (2002)
4.)  Added a text scoreboard display (appx. 2003)
5.)  Fenced the field (appx. 2003)
6.)  Added temporary bleachers (appx. 2004)
7.)  Renovated the locker room facilities (appx. 2005)
8.)  Expanded the temporary bleachers (appx. 2007)
9.)  Expanded the press box for suites (2009)
10.)  Adding lights for evening activities (2011-2012)

Along the way, have supported a roster of approximately 200 with at least 11 coaches annually throughout that same period.  That U$T has caught up and is now spending a comparable amount does not provide an excuse for SJU's use of those resources. It is preposterous to suggest other MIAC schools (other than U$T which spends money on everything) is even in the same ballpark in terms of funding their programs to the same level.  You can't say that Bethel and STO, despite their own facilities enhancements over the same time period, are even approaching this level of commitment.

I think all of the spending by SJU is dwarfed by the money spent by UST on the Anderson Athletic Complex.  You'll be really impressed after you watch this video tour of the AAC - which is ingeniously disguised as being of some building at Notre Dame (don't believe it - it's the Anderson).

[sjusection105]

Surprised nobody had posted this yet.

Johnnies on the Spot (StarTrib today)

Decent article and quite fair.  However, my concern is not with the topic of the article (we already know that!), but the comments from the staff.  If I have this straight and can paraphrase:

John says, "Our expectations are too high and this happens from time to time..."
Tom Stock says, "Our recruiting has suffered and we don't pour resources into football like other MIAC schools..."
Gary says, "We are young and the only team in the MIAC to replace a quarterback this fall..."
Jimmy isn't quoted.

Shouldn't we at least get the story straight, guys?

Off season "voluntary workouts" and recruiting results will be areas of interest for 2012 

[SagatagSam]

Off season "voluntary workouts" and recruiting results will be areas of interest for 2012

This will definitely be an interesting off-season.
Here is where real leaders will have a chance to step up. The Johnnies have never really been an organization that is run "top down," so don't expect a lot of sweeping gestures from the coaching staff.
There have got to be players that stand up and take ownership of the 2012 squad over the spring/summer months.

It could be some guys that we didn't see coming.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic....

[OzJohnnie]

It could be some guys that we didn't see coming.

I'll remain cautiously optimistic....

It's worked before. I reckon it will work again.

[tmerton]

The Johnnies have never really been an organization that is run "top down," so don't expect a lot of sweeping gestures from the coaching staff.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to have a more organized off-season program.  Relying on the kids to do it on their own builds character in the ones who do but doesn't push the ones who need some pushing and doesn't necessarily work as well these days.  I love the paradigm, but it might need a bit more structure, at least in the way of resources.

[SagatagSam]

The Johnnies have never really been an organization that is run "top down," so don't expect a lot of sweeping gestures from the coaching staff.

Still, it wouldn't hurt to have a more organized off-season program.  Relying on the kids to do it on their own builds character in the ones who do but doesn't push the ones who need some pushing and doesn't necessarily work as well these days.  I love the paradigm, but it might need a bit more structure, at least in the way of resources.

Right, I'm not disputing what is needed. I'm just pointing out the reality of what's probably going to happen.