FB: Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

[MiacMan]

Who would have thought Hamline would have two of the five losses? Me.

So you would agree that MAC needs to rejoin the MIAC in FB.

I'm glad we have that settled 

If Mac can do this another year or two, I would support the switch back to the MIAC. If that were to hbappen, it means though that as a conference we would only get one non-conference game a year. That is, if there are no other turn coats because they are consistently beaten by all the rest of the MIAC.

As much as I hate to say it, no I don't agree that Mac should comeback to the conference in football. Frankly, Carleton should be doing the same thing as Mac. In a perfect world, Mac would get out of the conference in all sports. The only reason they are still in the conference for others sports is travel $$ and travel time (away from class). The problem with football in particular at schools like Mac and Carleton is that the schools themselves are not "tuition driven". They do not need football to fill beds and bring in tuition $$. More so they use football as means to fulfill certain demographics within the student body (which when push comes to shove these demographics take a back seat to other priorities in some years  ) Certainly, athletically, St. Scholastica would be a much better fit than Mac or Carleton and probably academically as well. Northwestern of Roseville to a lesser extent than Scholastica, but would probably be a better fit than Mac and Carleton. My guess would be that while maybe not the only reason, but a big reason why the conference wants Mac and Carleton because of their academic presence on a National level. Maybe bringing in Scholastica as a charter member for Football only for a specified period with the idea that they would replace Mac as full member after such period. This would give Mac some time to find a solution (travel) for their other sports. Potentially, the same could be situation could be applied to Carleton/Northwestern. Hamline has other issues that can and should be solved but the MIAC is the right conference for them (another day, another discussion)

[USTBench]

Probably no good way to resolve the parity question (or lack-there-of) so long as UST and SJU are in the MIAC. Concordia will continue to be competitive because nobody else in the MIAC recruits North Dakota and western Minnesota, but they're having budget issues and won't participate in any sort of facilities race. Bethel has a great program and might catch lightning in a bottle one of these years and win the conference again, but I doubt it will be sustainable much longer than that. After that, the drop off on a year-in-year-out basis is STEEP.

I'm all for a DIII Power 4, West, East, North and South.

91-7 scores are what i'd expect if a DIII team was to line up against Bama, not another DIII team. I think it's time either for another division, or the top tier teams to move on to a situation more suited to their ambition.

[MiacMan]

Bench

All good points. Yeah there is no clear cut solution. Do you fix it on the high end or do you fix it on the low end? Or do you just say tough nuggies, deal with it? 

[OzJohnnie]

Probably no good way to resolve the parity question (or lack-there-of) so long as UST and SJU are in the MIAC. Concordia will continue to be competitive because nobody else in the MIAC recruits North Dakota and western Minnesota, but they're having budget issues and won't participate in any sort of facilities race. Bethel has a great program and might catch lightning in a bottle one of these years and win the conference again, but I doubt it will be sustainable much longer than that. After that, the drop off on a year-in-year-out basis is STEEP.

I'm all for a DIII Power 4, West, East, North and South.

91-7 scores are what i'd expect if a DIII team was to line up against Bama, not another DIII team. I think it's time either for another division, or the top tier teams to move on to a situation more suited to their ambition.

Maybe DIII can put a cap on the spending arms race, which I suspect closely mirrors program success.  Make DIII a capped division in addition to non-scholarship.  Maybe that would allow DIII to maintain a lot of what makes it good like the long standing conference rivalries.

[Pat Coleman]

Maybe DIII can put a cap on the spending arms race, which I suspect closely mirrors program success.  Make DIII a capped division in addition to non-scholarship.  Maybe that would allow DIII to maintain a lot of what makes it good like the long standing conference rivalries.

It would be hard to determine a cap when some teams have all their games within a four-hour radius and some have to go further than that on average just in their conference.

[USTBench]

Bench

All good points. Yeah there is no clear cut solution. Do you fix it on the high end or do you fix it on the low end? Or do you just say tough nuggies, deal with it?

Well, you're not going to convince or force the low end to spend money they don't have on a problem they have no interest in solving, and it's not the responsibility of SJU and UST to slash their budget, purposely regress, or play down to their competition. So, basically, you're left with a half dozen, possibly more, non-competitive games that aren't really good for anyone.

I love the tradition of the MIAC and DIII, but it's pretty clear the top part of the conference is forging a very different path that really doesn't resemble anything close to what the rest of the conference is about. I mean, SJU can try to be the kitschy little school in the forest all they want, but 2/3 (probably more) of the 37,000+ at Target Field were Johnnie fans, and if we're being honest, they pretty much demolish everyone in DIII in terms of attendance. UST on the other hand has the facilities and commitment to fielding a perennial power in football, and the talent to get to a Stagg Bowl almost every year.

It's fine now, but if you go another half-decade of UST and SJU at the top and nobody even coming close to challenging either one for the MIAC crown, while blowing out the bottom half of the conference by 50+ every week, then you have to ask yourself what exactly is the point? If I'm the president or on the board at St. Olaf, Carleton or Hamline, and UST or SJU is hanging 70+ on my school in the only sport that garners any sort of media attention, is that a good look? Why would I stick around to continue to endure that? I can't blame MAC for fleeing for the MWC, and it makes you wonder if others are threatening to do the same? Then is the goal is going to be to get MAC back, force UST and SJU out, or a combination of the two? And if that happens, then what? DII is not a good fit for UST or SJU at all. 

If I'm being honest, I'd like to see UST and SJU stick around DIII (which they will for the foreseeable future, because they can be competitive nationally), but every year that goes by UST and SJU look like a better fit for Pioneer League in football and the Horizon League or Summit League for other sports.

[Pat Coleman]

One of the things that I think has been talked about is allowing teams to travel more players for MIAC road games, with the thought that having more players would allow the power teams to empty their benches even further and keep scores down.

[USTBench]

One of the things that I think has been talked about is allowing teams to travel more players for MIAC road games, with the thought that having more players would allow the power teams to empty their benches even further and keep scores down.

Travelling 85 would give you another tier in terms of depth on both sides of the ball. Could be the simplest solution.

[bleedpurple]

But are the third and fourth strings at UST as well versed at the trick plays Coach Caruso likes to employ with a huge lead?

[OzJohnnie]

I'm inclined to go the cost control route, I think.  I'd prefer to keep more programs in competition rather than create some DIII elite division that has 30 teams or so in it.

But then there are over 5300 universities and colleges in the USA.  That's some pretty stiff competition, particularly if the free money from the gov't spigot ever dries up.  So you need to allow them to distinguish themselves somehow.  Perhaps a spending cap would be a bad idea.  Not sure.

[miac952]

Is this not a function of DIII in general? There is huge disparity in all sports. When St Thomas gets their their butt kicked by Gustavus in tennis 9-0 every year do they decide to take their rackets to another conference? Or when St Marys scores 2 points in the MIAC indoor track meet and St Thomas puts up 200 for their 30th consecutive title or whatever it is now, does St Mary's decide to leave? Hamline came out of nowhere the last decade in building both of their hockey programs into national contenders. That is a direct result of the University commitment to succeed.

Mac took their ball and went to a different conference instead of committing to get better.  If it weren't for their strategic academic value I would say the MIAC should bounce them in everything.

[faunch]

One of the things that I think has been talked about is allowing teams to travel more players for MIAC road games, with the thought that having more players would allow the power teams to empty their benches even further and keep scores down.

Last year SJU was at home in game one, played every player on the roster and still beat Scholastic 98-0.

[MiacMan]

Is this not a function of DIII in general? There is huge disparity in all sports. When St Thomas gets their their butt kicked by Gustavus in tennis 9-0 every year do they decide to take their rackets to another conference? Or when St Marys scores 2 points in the MIAC indoor track meet and St Thomas puts up 200 for their 30th consecutive title or whatever it is now, does St Mary's decide to leave? Hamline came out of nowhere the last decade in building both of their hockey programs into national contenders. That is a direct result of the University commitment to succeed.

Mac took their ball and went to a different conference instead of committing to get better.  If it weren't for their strategic academic value I would say the MIAC should bounce them in everything.

I tend to agree with 952.

I think it is more of Mac/Carleton thing. They have too many limiting factors that they are unwilling to change/sacrifice, which I don't necessarily blame them. This is who they are. I think at this point both would be fine getting out of the conference either totally or just for football as in Mac's case. The Midwest would take them in heartbeat.  The travel issue is a huge problem for sports that have home/home and play over 30 games. It's really not a money thing, both of those schools have plenty, although it would only be given to sports reluctantly. It's the time away from class. I know at one point they were discussing doing "Super Sight Weekends" like say where Monmouth, Beloit, St. Norbs, and Mac (M & W basketball) teams would meet at one sight and play round robin conference games (Friday, Saturday, Sunday). I am not sure where it ever went but obviously it never got any traction.

[art76]

Taking my cue from yesterday's podcast, it sure is not looking good for any games this weekend in the Carolinas and Virginia, and probably other areas in the SE as Florence makes landfall.

[AO]

MIAC PICKEMS
WEEK 2 STANDINGS


Week 3 Sep. 15
The Goat: 4pts
St. Olaf @ Carleton (+10.5)

Conference: 3pts
Concordia @ Augsburg (+24.5)
#9 St. John's @ Gustavus (+20.5)
Hamline (+70.5) @ #3 St. Thomas

National: 1pt
Centre @ Hendrix (+5.5)