FB: Liberty League

[Pat Coleman]

I wonder if Schilling needed that no-hitter to cement his Hall of Fame candidacy. I get the feeling he's kind of on the borderline.

[union89]

Firstly a challenge.....then a story.....JU, LD & AJ....when is the ass whuppin' for you fools gonna occur at Worcester Country Club.....lets nail down a date this summer....we'll have to work around the Tar Heel's schedule.

Secondly, shot an 89 today and feeling pretty good about myself driving home from Worcester.....on the Mass. Pike, I get a bit hungry and have to whizz after my 13 ML's on the course.  I stop at McD's for a 1/4 Pounder with cheese....coming out of McD's, I'm walking in front of my car, when a big, Fat F*** throws open his door, slamming it into my ride.....the FF then jerks up and down in his seat, trying to get momentum out of his car, grinding his door on my ride!!!  The FF then looks at me....kind of shrugs and says, "sorry".  The rest of the story goes as follows.....FF had a lady friend with him...she was also an FF and will now be known as MsFF....

FF:  "Sorry"
U89:  "Sorry?"
FF:  "Man, I wasn't paying attention."
U89:  "Can I see your license and registration??"
FF:  "It was an accident."
U89:  "I hear 'ya, but you f***ed up my car."
MsFF:  "Hey don't be a dick.....it was an accident."
U89:  Blank stare at FF
FF:  "I don't want this to hit my insurance....how much do you want to take care of this??"
U89  "$500"......hoping for maybe $200
FF and MsFF pool thier $$ together and come up with $400......I pocket the $400 feeling pretty good about the deal.

Driving away I look back at FF & MsFF license plate........you got it, 'Sh!t Azz' Jersey.........sorry JT, but I HATE Jersey.....

[dewcrew88]

I wonder if Schilling needed that no-hitter to cement his Hall of Fame candidacy. I get the feeling he's kind of on the borderline.

No way. I'm pretty sure Schilling is in Cooperstown.
According to baseball-reference.com, Schilling has

213 wins, 3,081 strikeouts, a 3.45 ERA.
He's finished Top 10 in the MVP voting twice.
He's won 20 games in three different seasons, two in the National League and once in the American League.
He's led the league in wins twice.
He's been a six-time all-star.
He's 8-2 in 15 postseason starts.
I'm sure there's more, but I'm working. 
And to top it all off, he has 2 World Series rings, proving he's gotten it done in the big situation.

I would believe Schilling is in.

[Pat Coleman]

Scroll farther down on that page, however, and look at the list of similar pitchers:

   1. Kevin Brown (915)
   2. Bob Welch (901)
   3. Orel Hershiser (896)
   4. Dazzy Vance (894) *
   5. Mike Mussina (892)
   6. David Cone (890)
   7. Milt Pappas (883)
   8. Lew Burdette (876)
   9. Don Drysdale (875) *
  10. John Smoltz (875)

And the various HOF trackers:

Black Ink: Pitching - 42 (33) (Average HOFer ≈ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 207 (33) (Average HOFer ≈ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 46.0 (48) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)

Black ink is usually pretty reliable.

He's 11th among active pitchers in ERA. Wow! Whoopee! Shouldn't a Hall of Famer be the best at his position for more than a year or two?

Eighth among active pitchers in wins. At least here he has led his league in wins twice.

Cy Youngs: Zero.

[labart96]

Scroll farther down on that page, however, and look at the list of similar pitchers:

   1. Kevin Brown (915)
   2. Bob Welch (901)
   3. Orel Hershiser (896)
   4. Dazzy Vance (894) *
   5. Mike Mussina (892)
   6. David Cone (890)
   7. Milt Pappas (883)
   8. Lew Burdette (876)
   9. Don Drysdale (875) *
  10. John Smoltz (875)

And the various HOF trackers:

Black Ink: Pitching - 42 (33) (Average HOFer ≈ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 207 (33) (Average HOFer ≈ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 46.0 (48) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)

Black ink is usually pretty reliable.

He's 11th among active pitchers in ERA. Wow! Whoopee! Shouldn't a Hall of Famer be the best at his position for more than a year or two?

Eighth among active pitchers in wins. At least here he has led his league in wins twice.

Cy Youngs: Zero.

True, but a 3rd world series ring (including a win or two in the series) might help him squeak in.

[dewcrew88]

Scroll farther down on that page, however, and look at the list of similar pitchers:

   1. Kevin Brown (915)
   2. Bob Welch (901)
   3. Orel Hershiser (896)
   4. Dazzy Vance (894) *
   5. Mike Mussina (892)
   6. David Cone (890)
   7. Milt Pappas (883)
   8. Lew Burdette (876)
   9. Don Drysdale (875) *
  10. John Smoltz (875)

And the various HOF trackers:

Black Ink: Pitching - 42 (33) (Average HOFer ≈ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 207 (33) (Average HOFer ≈ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 46.0 (48) (Average HOFer ≈ 50)

Black ink is usually pretty reliable.

He's 11th among active pitchers in ERA. Wow! Whoopee! Shouldn't a Hall of Famer be the best at his position for more than a year or two?

Eighth among active pitchers in wins. At least here he has led his league in wins twice.

Cy Youngs: Zero.

I don't understand the HOF trackers. So we'll discount that. 

He's got a career 3.45 ERA in an era where pitchers get multi-million dollar contracts for a 5 ERA.
And on that list, I would believe Hershiser deserves consideration and Drysdale, being a HOFer, was a dominant pitcher in the era he played.

Maybe it is borderline, but I believe he should be on the other side of the border.
Wouldn't be the first time the HOF has passed over a player from the Red Sox who should be enshrined (i.e. Jim Rice)

[Pat Coleman]

I don't understand 212 wins. Can we discount that?

Contracts aren't important. The era-important stat there is that his ERA isn't even a whole run below the league average.

[Pat Coleman]

True, but a 3rd world series ring (including a win or two in the series) might help him squeak in.

Yep. Or that no-hitter.

[PBR...]

one thing to remember pat is when he was with the phillies he got absolutely no offensive support he basically had to pitch a 1-2 hit shutout everytime out to have a shot at winning the game. you put him on a even mediocre team at that point and his stats would be much more powerful. pbr forgets where he was before coming to phillies (arizona maybe in their initial years?) but he got zero support from those teams as well. pbr has seen him pitch many times in person, that dood is money especially in the playoffs if there is one guy pbr wants to have the ball its him when you need a win.

[Pat Coleman]

Sure. But only once in the top six in ERA during those years in Philadelphia. Twice in those years his ERA was actually higher than the league average. Need a fair amount of run support to overcome that.

[PBR...]

phils sweep the mets!!! pbr is stunned!!!

[dewcrew88]

I don't understand 212 wins. Can we discount that?

Contracts aren't important. The era-important stat there is that his ERA isn't even a whole run below the league average.

It's hard to argue sports with the Guru, but I hope, as one of his many worker bees, I have made him proud with the attempt. 

[Knightstalker]

Schillings first four years were split between Baltimore and Houston where he was mainly a reliever.  Kurt Schilling right now is in the hall of very good, with pitchers like Tommy John, Jack Morris, Jon Matlack etc.  Pitchers need 300 wins or have to be clearly head and shoulders above the competition for period of time like Sandy Koufax and Whitey Ford were.  It would help if he was a lefty too.

If he wins a few cy youngs at this stage in his career he might have a shot.  Schilling is definitely someone I want on the mound in a big game though but that is not enough for the Baseball HOF, especially for a righty.

[lewdogg11]

If robots who crunched numbers voted on the Hall of Fame, I don't know if Curt Schilling is good enough.  But people vote.  And I think Schilling's gutsy performances over the years, gives him a better shot for the HOF based on reputation.  Jim Rice has the numbers to get in, but a bad reputation, so like I said, if computers were voting, it would be one thing, but it all comes down to what the voters think...And by eligibility time, the All-Time HR King might be leaving a spot open for Mr. Schill...

Let's not forget Joe Namath...

['gro]

I think Willie Mays Hayes has a legitimate chance at cooperstown... The guy stole a ton of bases for the tribe and more importantly was able to morph from Wesley Snipes into Omar Epps.

And lets not forget Pedro Cerano... the guy would later become president of the United States.