Pool C -- 2015

[wally_wabash]

As noted on the CCIW board, however, winning percentage is not the sole criteria.

H2H vs D3 (IWU)
Common opponents (Trine v Albion; NCC v Trine)
D3 Strength of Schedule (#1 out of 237 teams)

While I agree winning percentage is a big deal, it is in no way an open and shut case.  You can't cherry pick the primary criteria you want just because you don't like North Central.

You can't ignore the criteria you don't want either.  62% win percentage is really bad.   It's a de facto disqualifier in the at-large scenario.  That's got nothing to do with personal thoughts about North Central, that's just reality.   

[MonroviaCat]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

That is what I thought but look at Oshkosh (for example)  they are listed as 6-0 in region and 7-1 out of region--So aside from the 1 non D3 school they played there is another game (I'm guessing Finlandia) that is considered "out of region"...same thing for whitewater, Hardin Simmons.....etc.

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

[jknezek]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

Neither is a full DIII football member. So yeah, they don't count. Provisional is "out of DIII" by definition.

[MonroviaCat]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

Neither is a full DIII football member. So yeah, they don't count. Provisional is "out of DIII" by definition.

Aha!  There ya go.

[wabndy]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Thats where the distinction becomes so screwy.  Wabash and WashU in St. Louis used to regularly play.  They were just over the 200 mile limit in distance and in different football and NCAA administrative regions.  Its the administrative region criteria that really makes it crazy.  The Wabash-Hampden Sydney game was in-region because of the administrative region breakout.  I understand the idea was to limit costs by taking some of the advantage of  some schools ability to hop around the country to play games.  In practice it makes little sense to continue to keep it in.

[USee]

As noted on the CCIW board, however, winning percentage is not the sole criteria.

H2H vs D3 (IWU)
Common opponents (Trine v Albion; NCC v Trine)
D3 Strength of Schedule (#1 out of 237 teams)

While I agree winning percentage is a big deal, it is in no way an open and shut case.  You can't cherry pick the primary criteria you want just because you don't like North Central.

You can't ignore the criteria you don't want either.  62% win percentage is really bad.   It's a de facto disqualifier in the at-large scenario.  That's got nothing to do with personal thoughts about North Central, that's just reality.

I agree but you are arguing a much different point. There is a big difference between being ranked 9th or 10th in your region and getting an at large bid. 62% win percentage is going to keep you from the latter but should not keep you from the former (especially since the other criteria are supposedly in play).

[wally_wabash]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

I believe Finlandia does count.  Belhaven does not, but they aren't counting for anybody this year (and presumably next). 

This is also a good time to point out that the language around the primary criteria in the handbook doesn't talk about in-region this or that anymore, it says things like "Division III strength of schedule" and "Division III win percentage".  The committees are looking at all D3 results (except for results vs. provisional/reclassifying teams, at least until it is necessary to look at secondary criteria). 

[FCGrizzliesGrad]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

Neither is a full DIII football member. So yeah, they don't count. Provisional is "out of DIII" by definition.

Finlandia was already a full D3 member. They shouldn't have any provisional status I wouldn't think.

[wally_wabash]

What's fascinating about these rankings are the dominoes.  North Central isn't ranked today which affects UW-Platteville.  If North Central is ranked, I think UW-P goes over Whitworth.  Now if we look at the North region's rankings, John Carroll and DePauw have losses forthcoming, both on the final Saturday of the season.  One or both of these teams could (maybe should) drop.  Does that push North Central in?  And if so does it reposition UW-P and Whitworth?  We won't know that part until the bracket gets released next Sunday. 

[jknezek]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Thats where the distinction becomes so screwy.  Wabash and WashU in St. Louis used to regularly play.  They were just over the 200 mile limit in distance and in different football and NCAA administrative regions.  Its the administrative region criteria that really makes it crazy.  The Wabash-Hampden Sydney game was in-region because of the administrative region breakout.  I understand the idea was to limit costs by taking some of the advantage of  some schools ability to hop around the country to play games.

Those distinctions no longer matter for the most part. So long as you play 70% of your schedule against in-region opponents, the 30% that aren't in region, so long as they are full DIII members, count as in-region. Since we can't play more than 10 games, and an AQ conference has to have 7 members (and most have more), conference games generally get teams over the 70% margin. That leaves the Pool B teams plus the NACC and MIAA as the only teams not getting over the 70% hump just in conference play this year. So the NACC and MIAA have to schedule 1 OOC in region to get everything to count. The Pool B teams have more work to do obviously.

I stand by my original comment. It's really hard not to play a 8 or more game DIII qualifying team schedule and end up with any out of region games. Playing out of division, or year 1 or 2 provisional teams, is about the only way to end up with different in/out of region records.

[jknezek]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

Neither is a full DIII football member. So yeah, they don't count. Provisional is "out of DIII" by definition.

Finlandia was already a full D3 member. They shouldn't have any provisional status I wouldn't think.

Yeah I think you are correct. UWW did it with Belhaven and Morningside.

[Toby Taff]

I almost had to ask:  Who is this " Rensselaer 6-2 6-2 "---never heard RPI called by their first name

if my daughter didn't get recruiting letters every other day I'd have been in the same boat.

[02 Warhawk]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

Neither is a full DIII football member. So yeah, they don't count. Provisional is "out of DIII" by definition.

Finlandia was already a full D3 member. They shouldn't have any provisional status I wouldn't think.

Yeah I think you are correct. UWW did it with Belhaven and Morningside.

So their regional record should be 5-1...not 4-1 as the committee posted.

[Pat Coleman]

You'll see some schools with differences but it's primarily "in DIII" or "out of DIII". For example W&L, for reasons that are incomprehensible and irritate me every time I think about it, played Newport News Apprentice this year. So they are 8-0, but 7-0 in region. UWW and UWO both played "out of region" games against NAIA competition. It's pretty darn hard to play a DIII football game against a team that would be "out of region".

Yet UWW managed to do it twice by playing Belhaven and Finlandia which are both new teams this year.

Neither is a full DIII football member. So yeah, they don't count. Provisional is "out of DIII" by definition.

Finlandia was already a full D3 member. They shouldn't have any provisional status I wouldn't think.

Yeah I think you are correct. UWW did it with Belhaven and Morningside.

So their regional record should be 5-1...not 4-1 as the committee posted.

I agree and I have emailed the chair and NCAA liaison about this but have not gotten a reply.