2025 D3 Men's Soccer National Perspective

[Mr_November]

A coach with limited ability and creativity , a broken culture, and an arrogance not to know the difference.......yes, not a suprise at all that they are off to the start that they are.

Interesting takes, Footy. It has been quite a shock to see much Messiah has fallen off from the heights of 2022 and 2023. I do think D3 programs have caught up to Messiah in terms of tactics, playing systems, and recruitment.

[Mr_November]

On another note - now that we're approaching the midway point in the season...

Which programs across the country are currently playing the best/most exciting brand of soccer? Would love to hear some shoutouts and the reasons why 

[Hopkins92]

The magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Interesting take. Wish Falconer was around to chime in.

There was a hazing issue that just got resolved this past spring.  Mccarty was suspended from coaching for half of the spring season and an alum was suspended from volunteering with the team during the summer.  I don't think it's coincidence that they're off to such a poor start

Woah. That's pretty heavy stuff. Not what I'd expect from that program.

[Footy]

Further to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

[Gregory Sager]

The magic  of Dave Brandt is gone, and McCarty has simply been running his playbook for years. The problem is that this playbook was largely succesful because Messiah simply out recruited everyone.  With the parity increasing in D3 soccer, McCarty is showing his weakness as a coach, and his inability to adapt.  Messiah has always been predictable, but in the past, it didn't matter, as their personnel was simply better. Not the case anymore.  They should still be able to handle a very non competitive Mac Commonwealth, but I think the national power is fading.....They only lost 3-4 starters from last season, and haven't seen to be able to adjust. The freshman seem to have potential- but McCarty is going to need to show an ability to field a team based on talent and his opponent verses running the only game plan he seems to know.

Interesting take. Wish Falconer was around to chime in.

There was a hazing issue that just got resolved this past spring.  Mccarty was suspended from coaching for half of the spring season and an alum was suspended from volunteering with the team during the summer.  I don't think it's coincidence that they're off to such a poor start

Woah. That's pretty heavy stuff. Not what I'd expect from that program.

True, but unfortunately it's not the first time that a Christian school's athletic department has had to deal with a hazing scandal. Eight years ago Wheaton's football program had a serious hazing incident that resulted in five arrests and a ton of negative publicity for the school.

[SierraFD3soccer]

IMO, many schools have issues with hazing and not just Christian based colleges. Other unfortunate examples - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Skidmore and Air Force. At least Messiah faced the issue. Many more get swept under the rug. More detail on what happened at Messiah - https://www.messiah.edu/student-engagement-care-and-support/living-in-community/hazing_report_and_information

From a study on D3 hazing - "llan  and  Madden  (2008)  found  that  74%  of  varsity  athlete  respondents indicated  they  participated  in  at  least  one  activity  meeting  the  definition  of  hazing.  Athletes participating  in  lacrosse,  swimming,  and  soccer  experienced  the  highest  percentages  of  hazing (Kerschner & Allan, 2016). The most common hazing behaviors experienced by varsity athletes were participatingin a drinking game (47%),singing or chanting in public at an unrelated event (27%),drinking  large  amounts  of  a  non-alcoholic  beverage  (24%),drinking  large  amounts  of alcohol (23%),and being screamed, yelled, or cursed at by other athletes (21%). More recently, examining  hazing  at  seven  research  universities  in  the  U.S.,  Allan,  Kerschner,and  colleagues (2018) found that varsity athletes (42.7%) were more likely to experience hazing than their peers belonging to fraternities and sororities (38.3%), club sport teams (29.5%), and student leadership organizations  (27.4%).Kerschner  and  Allan  (2021)  concluded  that  athletes  were  more  likely  to experience hazing than their non-athlete peers."

Link to article - https://journals.shareok.org/jheali/ojs/jheali/article/view/29/23

[Gregory Sager]

IMO, many schools have issues with hazing and not just Christian based colleges. Other unfortunate examples - Claremont-Mudd-Scripps, Skidmore and Air Force. At least Messiah faced the issue. Many more get swept under the rug. More detail on what happened at Messiah - https://www.messiah.edu/student-engagement-care-and-support/living-in-community/hazing_report_and_information

Thanks for that link. It looks like the two Messiah naked kickball games by the men's soccer team and the kiss-a-stranger scavenger hunt by the men's swimming team were fairly small potatoes as hazing incidents go, although they clearly fit the definition of hazing and were dealt with appropriately in the end. The Wheaton football hazing involved physical assault and resulted in felony charges (which were pled down to misdemeanor battery and misdemeanor unlawful restraint), and the five offenders were eventually kicked off the team once the county DA filed the charges. It also appears that the Messiah administration went by the book and took suitable steps to punish the coaches and alumni volunteers involved, whereas Wheaton basically swept the matter under the rug by hiring a consultant to come in and perform a clearly inadequate investigation that led to both blaming the victim and penalizing the players involved with nothing more stringent than one-game suspensions and the requirement to write an essay about what they did wrong. They had been allowed to play almost an entire season with no consequences because the school's dilatory internal investigation and eventual slap-on-the-wrist "punishment" delayed justice and eventually forced local civil authorities to step in.

I cite all that not to drag Wheaton through the mud again -- it's almost a decade in the rear-view mirror now, and I'm sure that the school has since created more appropriate policies for mandating hazing-prevention education and for dealing with hazing complaints -- but to stress that a lot of the onus with regard to hazing actually has to do more with how a school responds to a hazing complaint than to the actual incident itself.

From a study on D3 hazing - "llan  and  Madden  (2008)  found  that  74%  of  varsity  athlete  respondents indicated  they  participated  in  at  least  one  activity  meeting  the  definition  of  hazing.  Athletes participating  in  lacrosse,  swimming,  and  soccer  experienced  the  highest  percentages  of  hazing (Kerschner & Allan, 2016). The most common hazing behaviors experienced by varsity athletes were participatingin a drinking game (47%),singing or chanting in public at an unrelated event (27%),drinking  large  amounts  of  a  non-alcoholic  beverage  (24%),drinking  large  amounts  of alcohol (23%),and being screamed, yelled, or cursed at by other athletes (21%). More recently, examining  hazing  at  seven  research  universities  in  the  U.S.,  Allan,  Kerschner,and  colleagues (2018) found that varsity athletes (42.7%) were more likely to experience hazing than their peers belonging to fraternities and sororities (38.3%), club sport teams (29.5%), and student leadership organizations  (27.4%).Kerschner  and  Allan  (2021)  concluded  that  athletes  were  more  likely  to experience hazing than their non-athlete peers."

Link to article - https://journals.shareok.org/jheali/ojs/jheali/article/view/29/23

As bad as the hazing incidents that we're talking about here are concerned, it's the drinking-related hazing incidents that involved forced consumption of alcohol that are the most dangerous; students have died as a result of them. That's one issue that a Christian school is much less likely to encounter, because student-athletes fear getting suspended for drinking (or for facilitating drinking). That's because Christian colleges and universities are invariably dry campuses that have stringent drinking-related punishments. The fact that student-athletes may be more worried about violating common campus rules than about jeopardizing the actual health and safety of their younger peers is wrong-headed, but "wrong-headed" describes a lot of behavior among 18-to-21-year-olds.

[SierraFD3soccer]

A very nice op ed on D3 sports. Worth the read. https://www.startribune.com/mn-college-st-johns-athletics-pride-diii/601476951

[D3SoccerTalker]

Further to the reality that is unfolding with Messiah - Id offer more evidence related to the inability to adapt, and McCarty's inability to coach - which is the lack of improvement and impact with key talent.  Matt McDonald took the country by storm his senior season and won NPOY - he was a unique and very gifted talent - and as a result of his monstrous season - all eyes were on him and Messiah when he came back for his 5th season.  However, his 5th year was a shadow of the year prior - and I would argue was based on him being a known entity that others adjusted to.  He was man marked and doubled the entire season - and instead of adjusting the shape and scheme to support McDonald - Messiah and Coach McCarty rolled out the only play book he knew - and the results were predictable.  Dave Brandt has shown his ability to be successful at different programs and levels - including putting Bucknell on the map.....and he did this by adapting, by recruiting , and showing that he is a coach.  McCarty continues to show that he operates like the head coach in "The Waterboy" - if it isn't in his "stolen" playbook - he doesn't  have a great means to create or deliver.  Poor results will affect recruiting, and his other tired play book of " Dont call us, we will call you" will be negatively affected as well.  Now, they clearly still have great talent, and this is greatly helped with a very weak conference - which should always give them an AQ path each year...however - much needs to change - or I think the current state may just be the future state.  Its been a great run.....

This does seem to be a post from a fairly spiteful Lycoming college fan/player from 2017 I presume? If so--the comments from here on out should be considered null and void.

In other news/along similar lines--York coach/former Lyco Head has developed a very competitive/no holds bar team at York--similar to what he did at Lycoming. So should be a fairly competitive MAC C final no matter what


Thanks

[Footy]

No. I'm not the 2017 lycoming player. Not remotely close

Just offering a take that I believe has merit.

And while I agree that there have been far worse cases and outcomes of hazing, it is a slippery slope to minimize it. It is wrong, it is illegal, and coaches and universities should be held to a high standard.

Regardless , McCarty is not the wizard folks have historically assumed he was.

[Hopkins92]

Paul Newman would've been all over this situation. Poster certainly seems to be taking a personal approach to critiquing Coach McCarty.

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I also want to clarify... My comment about not expecting this from that type of program had zero to do with their Christian-forward environment. More to do with the level of respect that coaching staff has built up over many iterations going back to the guy the field is named after.

Hazing is all about power dynamics. Certainly not something religious schools are immune from.

[Footy]

Not at all meaning to be overly personal. But the buck stops somewhere.  And I think the shift in parity in the division requires change - and one person can direct change.  My take was and is based on the radical shift.

[Freddyfud]

I just looked over this McCarty profile expecting to see a flash in the pan.  This is anything but.

Assuming his playbook has been the same for 16 years I would bet a majority of other coaches would love to have it. Except the hazing incident of course.  I understand they are off to an unprecedented start this year. What am I missing?

And yea this feels like a job for Superm...I mean PN.

[Footy]

Correct!  not a flash at all....and anyone would die for his playbook- it worked perfectly for 15+ years.  Thats the point. The world has changed.  The program hasn't - seems it needs to because D3 soccer ain't what it used to be.

[Ejay]

They've advanced out of the first round of the tournament every year since 2016. How has the game changed from 2021 when they were in the Elite 8? What does he need to be doing differently to keep up with the world's changes? All you've offered is that he didn't adjust the shape and scheme to support McDonald in his 5th year, the same year they went 20-1-1 and McDonald earned his 2nd All-American nod.