NCAA Tournament 2025

[camosfan]

A regular season game does not have to have a winner in a 16-game season, there are tie breakers, you are advocating bringing other sports rule into a unique game that predates all the sports you mentioned, and happens to be the most watched game in the world!

[Hopkins92]

Counterpoint, camo, is that COLLEGE soccer is different than what is watched all over the world in a few fundamental ways.

We've talked about the subbing.

And there is the weird way the clock is managed in college soccer.

I don't think tweaking the NPI formula (again, not a thing anywhere else in the world) would be such a radical move, for example.

I don't think taking players off is a great idea, because at 10v10 I think the difference is marginal and at 8v8, now you are asking guys to cover a TON more turf and we come back to player safety/attrition.

[camosfan]

I will acknowledge that the college game is a bit different at the moment, but they are slowly changing the rules to conform to international standards, I will say 5 years from now the timekeeping will change for example, the number of subs will be the hardest rule to change.

[Kuiper]

So a team like Haverford ended up 10-0-9 (lost last game on PK to the Muhls in the CC tournament) did not have a chance to win (or lose) almost half of their season and on top do not qual for the NCAA tourn. Spent the whole season unblemished, but end up 81st on the NPI.

FYI, field hockey (that is truly a dangerous sport, really), volleyball (best of 5 with extra points when tied at the end of each set), basketball, lacrosse (to the death), hockey!!!!, wrestling, football!!!!!!!!! etc, etc all go extra time/points in their games/matches to determine winners. Oh, yeah, baseball and softball play extra innings. Don't many of them have buses, planes, trains, boats, scooters, alpacas to catch??? Are soccer players just too dainty???

As to out west, they come a day early and they can have the game at 1 or 2 in the afternoon which most likely will leave enough time make an 8pm flight.

Some will say that these sports don't tie enough in reg. time. Oh, no, no, no, basketball, football and lacrosse maybe not, but goals are HUGE in fh and hockey.

Hockey and football CTE alert, but not enough injuries, future death, to not figure out a way to settle things. I would also argue that football, lacrosse, hockey, and, maybe, field hockey have equal or more injuries when compared to soccer. 

Yeah, I know it is the int'l way. Hah, we only play in the US.

If you are not bringing back extra time, make wins 4 pts and ramp up NPI for wins. Or maybe make ties .5 and continue wins 3 points. That'll make risk adverse coaches and players work harder in the 90 min. imo.

In baseball, they start with a man on second. Maybe in soccer have overtime with 10 v 10 in the first overtime and then 8 v 8 in the second?? That will cut down on over a bit??

After finishing 2-11-5 in 2024, I'm guessing Haverford's coach was overjoyed to go without a loss in 2025 and just make it to the Centennial conference tournament.  Weak teams and middling teams trying to stay above water end up playing for ties.  And once teams start playing for a tie, it kind of spreads through the conference since a point keeps you in the race. That's probably why Dickinson finished with 7 ties.  Conference teams that knew they couldn't hang with Dickinson's forwards played conservatively to avoid conceding and Dickinson had trouble beating a low block.  Muhlenberg, which seemed to stop scoring halfway through the season, also finished 8-3-9 in the Centennial, Swarthmore finished 5-6-6, and Washington College was 6-7-5.  Same issue in the NCAC, where Kenyon went 7-4-7, Ohio Wesleyan went 7-5-6, and Wittenberg went 7-4-7.  Similar story in the NEWMAC.  Coast Guard ended up 7-6-7, WPI was 8-7-5, Emerson was 6-8-5, and Salve Regina was 6-4-6 

As to why coaches in soccer decided to eliminate it because of travel issues and in other sports they did not, you would have to ask the coaches.  I don't know much about college field hockey (completely non-existent out west) and hockey (non-existent out here beyond the mountain time zone other than Alaska and Arizona State), but I think they are 60 rather than 90 minute run times, although I could be wrong. 

Regardless, my guess is something will be done at some point to increase the advantage of a win, whether adjusting the NPI formula or points.  Having said that, Williams was 10-2-11 in 2022, pre-NPI but post-repeal of OT, and no one made a move to limit ties even though Williams rode those ties all the way to the NCAA finals.  So, maybe it's here to stay.

[SierraFD3soccer]

I don't know much about college field hockey (completely non-existent out west) and hockey (non-existent out here beyond the mountain time zone other than Alaska and Arizona State), but I think they are 60 rather than 90 minute run times, although I could be wrong.

Yes 60 min (lacrosse and football too), but a lot of stopping and starting so most likely close to or over 90 min.

[Kuiper]

Who are everyone's surprise teams of the tournament? You can take the word "surprise" however you'd like. For me, I'm thinking about teams I had only seen on paper, but was surprised at how good they were when I actually tuned in to their games. In 2024, that team for me was Wisconsin-Eau Claire.

This year, my surprise team was Catholic- and particularly when I watched them against Amherst. Not only did they play a direct, punchy style--but mentally they were very strong and up for everything. My other surprise team was Babson. Even though they lost to Conn, they were a joy to watch. Super aggressive and press extremely well. I watched them score a wonder goal where they lobbed it to JR #9, who took it down on his chest, spun, and volleyed home a magnificant goal.

Texas Lutheran was a surprise for me, although they were a team I have watched quite a bit this year and in past years.  The surprise was how they broke out a different style - more pressing, more aggressive, more attack-minded - against Whitman to build up a 3-0 lead in the opening round before letting them back into the game after they went to their bench.  Even against Trinity, they put up more of a fight than Wash U or Augsburg did. 

Unlike some teams making the tournament for the first time (or the first time in a long time), this wasn't a senior-laden lineup that did it either.  Against Trinity and Whitman, Texas Lutheran had 5 freshman, 1 sophomore, and 2 juniors in the starting lineup, plus two freshman and 4 sophomores played significant minutes off the bench. A freshman had a brace against Whitman and a junior scored the other goal.  They graduate 11 players, but most of the significant contributors down the stretch were the younger players.  They could be a problem for a lot of teams next year if they continue to play the way they did in the tournament.

[SierraFD3soccer]

Counterpoint, camo, is that COLLEGE soccer is different than what is watched all over the world in a few fundamental ways.

We've talked about the subbing.

And there is the weird way the clock is managed in college soccer.

I don't think tweaking the NPI formula (again, not a thing anywhere else in the world) would be such a radical move, for example.

I don't think taking players off is a great idea, because at 10v10 I think the difference is marginal and at 8v8, now you are asking guys to cover a TON more turf and we come back to player safety/attrition.

Time keeping in the NCAA is just crazy the way they do it. My x feed just pointed out that TCU women's score a tying goal against UNC with less than 9 seconds left. However, that should never had happened.

At about the 2 min level, the time keeper froze the clock for over 13 seconds. TCU would win in PKs and go to the quarters. Extreme example? Maybe, but just something that should never happen especially in the NCAA tournament. Those seniors are never getting that game back or that opportunity.

I think the NCAAs is the only place where the center ref does not keep the time. I did 18U games and below and had not problem keeping time.

[Kuiper]

Happy Thanksgiving!  Some Odds and Ends about the Final Four that may only be of interest to me:

1.  This is the first time since 2019 that there is no team in the Final Four with "Washington" in its name

2024 - Washington & Lee
2023 - Washington College (MD) and Washington & Lee
2022 - Mary Washington
2021 - Washington & Lee

It was right there for Wash U to extend the streak, but t'was not to be.  In terms of Washington schools to watch in the future, Washington & Jefferson this season had its first winning record and first PAC Tournament qualification since 2019.

2.  We're not in Vegas anymore

Vegas weather last year High 68/Low 48

Salem's current forecast for the Men's game days

Friday Dec. 5th High 42/Low 35
Sunday Dec. 7th High 44/Low 34

3.  It could be worse

Here's a peek ahead at what the weather might be like the next two years based on this year's forecast:

Columbus (2026) High 36/Low 27 w/ snow showers
Pittsburgh (2027) High 34/Low 27 w/ snow showers

4.  Final Four Histories of the 4 schools (Bold = winner, Underline = runners up)

Tufts 2014, 2016, 2018, 2019

Trinity 2003, 2007, 2002

St. Olaf 2023

Emory None

5.  Experience playing in the Final Four at Roanoke College in Salem, VA

Tufts - won the 2016 championship in Salem
St. Olaf - won the 2023 championship in Salem

6.  Current head coaches of Final Four teams who have experience winning a national championship

Justin Oliver - St. Olaf 2023
Paul McGinlay - Trinity 2003 (Yes, McGinlay, who began coaching at Trinity in 1991, has coached Trinity in all three of their Final Four appearances)

[Ron Boerger]

McGinlay's 590 wins trails only D2 Rockhurst's Tony Tocco's 751 in number of wins by an active NCAA coach.  If Tocco can hang on for a couple more years, he could overtake Ohio Wesleyan's Jan Martin, who retired at the end of 2024 with 774 wins to lead all NCAA coaches.

• Martin got his 774 in a 47 year OWU career.  He continues at OWU as their Director of Sport Performance.
• Tocco is in his 55th year, all at Rockhurst, where he started coaching in 1970. As a 1967 graduate of St. Louis University, he's closing in on the big 8-0.  Most of Tocco's wins, 437, came while Rockhurst was an NAIA school but the NCAA credits those in his total.  Besides heading the soccer team, he's a full-time professor and head of the accounting department at Rockhurst.
• McGinlay is the rookie of these three, now in his 35th season at Trinity.