FB: Liberty League

[Bartman]

I Think the top 4 LL teams are playing at a higher level at the end of this season that just won't be recognized unless the LL Champ surprises in the first round. As far as Hilbert is concerned, I hate to criticize other brothers in football, but jeez they are ......well, to put it nicely, not ready to compete.

[Jonny Utah]

In other news:

In d2, Minot State broke the all time NCAA record in TOP with a 47:43 of possession time.

https://msubeavers.com/sports/football/stats/2025/northern-state-university/boxscore/9488

[UfanBill]

In adding to the OOC/SOS discussion...because of the LL/E8 mutual scheduling agreement and the addition of Hilbert making the Liberty League an 8 team league, LL teams only really have one OOC game(non E8). Just a reminder of who every LL team played in OOC. Ithaca scheduled Johns Hopkins, Union-Susquehanna, Rochester-Olivet, Hilbert-St.Vincent and RPI and St. Lawrence played long time rivals WPI and Norwich. Hobart and Buffalo St. chose to play an additional game against E8 rivals...Alfred and Brockport. Johns Hopkins(9-0), Susquehanna(7-2) and  Brockport(6-3) have winning records. Alfred(3-6), Olivet(1-8), WPI(2-7), St Vincent(2-7) and Norwich(1-8) certainly only further drain the SOS numbers...I know Union would have loved to keep a New England team (likely Springfield) on their schedule for recruiting purposes but Springfield's a no because of their own schedule requirements. The LL/E8 mutual agreement was only for 2 years with possible extension. When I first heard about it I thought it was great but now with doormat Hilbert clogging things up I'm longing for the old days.       

[Pat Coleman]

They only travel 40?

[Bartman]

CORTACA at Yankee Stadium in 2026. With the ease of transfers theses days, I'm sure there will be a lot of interest to play a game at Yankee Stadium and Ithaca will benefit greatly by this announcement. Maybe the Shoes game should be the warmup act.

[unionpalooza]

They only travel 40?

at least for the union game, by my rough count during the national anthem.

[Caz Bombers]

I'll be surprised if Hilbert is still open by the end of the decade.

[IC798891]

I have no sympathy for LL teams. Handle your OOC schedule.

Cortland and Susquehanna aren't unscalable mountains — they're both top 20-25 teams. Utica's a step below that. They're exactly the caliber of teams you run into in the playoffs in round 1. If you can't beat them in the regular season, you're not making a strong case for yourself.

Morrisville State is 0-9 and they only lost by 6 to the same Utica team that blew RPI off the field.

Grove City isn't even the best team in their own conference and they embarrassed Cortland on their home field. The same Cortland that turned Patch Flanagan into a one-man turnover exhibit, and is about to end Ithaca's Pool A chances in three days.

[ICGrad]

I have no sympathy for LL teams. Handle your OOC schedule.

Yes, and no

I largely agree with your sentiments, and have said before that I feel that this is a down year for the LL. Probably a year in which they don't deserve more than just the AQ. So no real issues there.

That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea, long-term, watering down the LL brand with the inclusion of Hilbert. We now have not one, but two associate members in football, and both are, to put it mildly, bottom feeders - or to be more scientific, both are bottom 30 (out of 240) programs. That only significantly weakens the league, and hurts the standing of each and every team in the league.

For several years, Ithaca put significant effort into beefing up their OOC scheduling with an eye toward improving SoS and preparing for postseason play. This new agreement is a big step back for them, and for every LL team.

Here's hoping, when the LL-E8 arrangement is renegotiated in a year or so, assuming it is extended (and I think that's a safe assumption, given that it makes scheduling much easier and saves all of the schools money),that the LL swaps out Hilbert for a different E8 school as an associate member. But something tells me that isn't going to happen, and Hilbert is here to stay.

Ugh.

[UfanBill]

They only travel 40?

at least for the union game, by my rough count during the national anthem.

To confirm your number palooza...In the Hilbert at Union Boxscore it lists 41 Hilbert participants. Further checks show 46 for a game at Rochester. 37 at St. Lawrence and 52 for their opener at St. Vincent. Their official roster has 64 players named. 35 are freshmen...Hey I've got an idea. Convince about 50 of the 6th,7th and 8th stringers at Mount Union to transfer to Hilbert where they might actually get playing time. 

[XREDDRAGON77]

IC79,

Utica beat Washington and Jefferson, who beat Grove City, who beat Cortland, who beat Utica!

And round it goes! So we can say the (#2/3) E8 team beat the top PAC team! Cortland definitely isn't invincible...but they've come a far way since week 1! I do like your assessment with them ending Ithaca's pool c chances!

[UfanBill]

I have no sympathy for LL teams. Handle your OOC schedule.

]b]Cortland and Susquehanna aren't unscalable mountains — they're both top 20-25 teams. Utica's a step below that. They're exactly the caliber of teams you run into in the playoffs in round 1. If you can't beat them in the regular season, you're not making a strong case for yourself.[/b]

Morrisville State is 0-9 and they only lost by 6 to the same Utica team that blew RPI off the field.

Grove City isn't even the best team in their own conference and they embarrassed Cortland on their home field. The same Cortland that turned Patch Flanagan into a one-man turnover exhibit, and is about to end Ithaca's Pool A chances in three days.

Sure Union lost convincingly to both preseason #4 Susquehanna and #10 Cortland but if you'd have watched those games you'd know the Garnet were not over matched. They lacked experience. At Susquehanna they had lots of new players on the field returning only 5 starters on offense and just 4 on defense. QB Patch Flanagan threw for 328 yards but they managed only 30 yards rushing against the experienced River Hawk D while defensively they held Susquehanna All American QB Josh Ehrlich to only 226 yards passing. They scored 19 of their points on 4 field goals and a pick 6...Against Cortland the Garnet were down only 7-6 at halftime and still only 10-6 in the 4th before mistakes, missed 4th down attempts and the resulting short fields allowed Cortland to score three 4th quarter TD's. Those two mountains were still just too high.

Then Union got things rolling. The offense found it's playmakers. The defense gelled and on the backs of a do everything QB, a stable of emerging receivers and that swarming defense they've won seven games in a row. The defense that gave up 63 points in the first two losses has allowed only 78 in the 7 wins since. They've surprised everybody. Can they do it again? 

Here's where I get real.   ... As much as I'd love Union to complete this incredible story I don't think it's going to happen. RPI is a much more complete, well balanced team than Union. I believe they have the best coach in the Liberty League and they'll get out to a lead, say 17-7 at halftime, and Union try as they may, will not be able to keep up. No miracle on-side kick recovery, soccer team member needed. RPI wins 31-14.   ..... or just maybe that Union D holds, Patch does enough and Union wins 23-20 in OT.      

[Machiavelli]

My predictions have been pretty much meaningless this season, but maybe this week...

Mach's Hopes and Dreams(not predictions):

Cortland - 31
Ithaca - 14
If the right Cortland team shows up, they should win comfortably.

Rochester - 31
St. Lawrence - 14
Rochester should finish out strong.

RPI - 31
Union - 14
I feel like I'm being trolled with all the Union faithful even thinking RPI is gonna win. But RPI SHOULD win.

Hartwick - 31
Hilbert - 14
Dare I say Dilbert has a fighting chance? Maybe. But it's not gonna happen unfortunately.

Buffalo St. - 14
Hobart - 31
Hobart finishes .500 and looks for momentum heading into 2026.

[IC798891]

That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea, long-term, watering down the LL brand with the inclusion of Hilbert. We now have not one, but two associate members in football, and both are, to put it mildly, bottom feeders - or to be more scientific, both are bottom 30 (out of 240) programs. That only significantly weakens the league, and hurts the standing of each and every team in the league.

There's a certain level of irony in people complaining about LL teams missing the playoff as an at-large when the conference has shown, repeatedly, an inability to beat playoff caliber teams — and even fringy non playoff teams.

Replacing an 0-10 Hilbert with some 6-4/5-5 type team may get the job done in terms of fooling the computers and earning a bid. But it's not changing my mind about the quality of the league.

And if Ithaca/Union/RPI can't beat Utica, Cortland, or Susquehanna, why should we think replacing Hilbert with, Grove City or W&J is going to result in a win?

Also, to continue with a point I made earlier.

Records from 2013-2016:

St. Lawrence - 32-9
Buffalo State - 25-17
Ithaca - 25-18
Union - 8-32

Heck, even RPI, who isn't included here, went through a stretch where they had a different head coach every 6 weeks*

*Okay, it wasn't that bad, but still
 
Treating these "bottom feeders" like they're a permanent underclass is really baffling to me.

[Ice Bear]

I'm really looking forward to this weekend's Shoes game. This is a great opportunity for Union to do something that at the beginning of the season I thought was not possible, go to the NCAA tourney in 2025.

Patch has had an incredible season and is tough as nails. He has more than won me over this season. I echo Ufan's thoughts regarding the growth of this Union team as well. It's been great to see and I think the season as a whole has been so enjoyable for all the Union faithful. With that being said, I think Union will come up short on Saturday against, again, echoing what Ufan said, a much more complete team in RPI.

While Union certainly CAN win the game on Saturday, I think in order for that to happen they will need to be at their absolute best and probably get a little help from RPI mistakes (arguably like IC did last week). The RPI/Ithaca game was an odd one to me. I felt, and maybe mistakenly, that RPI was the better team throughout and that they were going to win that football game. I think the missed 2-pt conversion was really tough. I give the historic Cris Carter "C'mon man" after a week to think about the decision. IMHO you either kick the extra point and tie the game OR if you are going for it, you run your absolute best and most practiced goal line play to get the 2 points. If they stop you then so be it, they stopped your best and deserve to win. That play call was atrocious. With that said I am a big fan of Ralph and the RPI coaching staff as a whole.

I do feel it important to note that I certainly give credit to IC for their fight and the fact that with Reed behind center they were able to make some really big plays when they were absolutely needed. There was no quit in that team last Saturday.

Anyway, I think RPI will run the ball with enough success to air it out and score some points while also dominating the ever important TOP. Union's O must get some yards on the ground from someone other than Patch to give Patch enough room to make the plays the team will need to win. WR Rivera needs to have his best game.

I see it RPI 28 - Union 17. Of course I hope Union wins, but I will be more than ready to get behind whichever team that moves on into the NCAA tourney to represent our league. I am hoping for a competitive and injury free game for both teams.